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igotthegoods
March 12, 2011, 12:11 AM
Team Aqua Beauty vs. Team Test Tube Symphonics

http://static.mangahelpers.com/gallery-previews/14505.jpg

this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Harribel

Tia Harribel, the Third (Tercera) Espada who is the only current female member. She portrays a deep sense of loyalty to her fracción and to Aizen, and this is shown in her use of her Resurrección, Tiburón. She fights for those she holds close through the control of massive amounts of water which can drown anything in her path. Although she is very attractive in appearance, this shark can really pack a bite.this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Yumichika

Ayasegawa Yumichika is the 5th Seated officer in the 11th Division of the Gotei 13, his captain is Kenpachi Zaraki. Yumichika is a narcissist who judges almost everyone and everything by beauty. He is also incredibly vain. Yumichika is a powerful combatant and wanted to become the third Seat of his Division, as he thought the kanji for the number three was the most beautiful.

Yumichika's zanpakutō is Ruriiro Kujaku, a kidō-type zanpakutō. However, since the 11th Division has an unspoken rule that zanpakutō are only to be used for direct attack, Yumichika keeps this fact secret. According to himself, he would risk dying to conceal his zanpakutō's true power. To conceal it, he releases with the name Fuji Kujaku, causing the vexed weapon to assume a form consisting of a sickle-shaped blade which can split into four identical blades.this keeps the others ones nicely aligned


vs.



http://static.mangahelpers.com/gallery-previews/14351.jpg

this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Rose

Ōtoribashi Rōjūrō, commonly referred to as Rose, is the former captain of the 3rd Division. He is an effeminate man with long, wavy, blond hair, and a frilly shirt. He seems to be interested in music. Rose appears to be one of the calmer and perhaps wiser ones amongst the group, though he becomes irritated whenever Love spoils a manga for him.

Rose's mask resembles a bird's beak that protrudes out from his face. Rose's zanpakutō is named Kinshara. His shikai transforms the blade into a long, plantlike whip with a flower at its tip. Prefaced as Kinshara Eleventh Sonata, Kinshara's technique, Izayoi Bara, causes this tip to discharge an explosion of energy.this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Aaroniero

Aaroniero Arruruerie is the ninth Espada and last of the first-generation Espada. He has two skulls suspended in an unknown fluid contained in a glass tank for a head. Having been a Gillian before becoming an Arrancar, he rose in power by devouring the hollows, acquiring their abilities, power, and knowledge in the process. By absorbing the hollow Metastacia, Aaroniero also gained access to the abilities, knowledge, and even physical characteristics of Shiba Kaien and his zanpakutō, Nejibana, which can create and manipulate torrents of water. Upon the release of his own zanpakutō, Glotonería, Aaroniero transforms into a massive, monstrous blob and gains access to all of his absorbed abilities at once.this keeps the others ones nicely aligned


Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!

Random101
March 15, 2011, 08:31 PM
Aqua Beauty. #9 being on the opposing side with the only unique confirmed ability other than that useless information transfer one amoung his 33000 abilities being along the lines of water summoning is an advantage for Harribel. He'll probably beat Yumichika, particularly if he doesn't go true shikai, but he'll get bloody destroyed by her.

A whip admittedly is far more effective on a smaller opponent though, you have all kinds of fun stuff you can do with something like that even with something like Hierro, but even taking into account the boom, dealing with massive influxes of water is going to be rough, particularly since she gets stronger the more time she's given to play around with. She's got the range advantage to say the least, and since #9's going to go down with ease if she glares at him hard enough it's pretty much one on one with all the time in the world.

Takahashi
March 15, 2011, 08:33 PM
Team Aqua Beauty

I think Halibel can take Rose. Hitsugaya fought her to a stalemate because of his ability, but even then needed Bankai. Rose is probably stronger in Shikai than Hitsugaya in Shikai, but I don't think even the mask can make up for Bankai. A whip isn't exactly the best weapon against someone who can fire a torrent of water towards you. Izio Bara isn't fast enough to stop the water that will be coming towards him, although the power is probably sufficient to disperse it if he had the opportunity.

Yumichika can take Aaroniero if he releases. Yumichika is probably in the low VC level, so going straight up against Kaien would get himself killed. But since he doesn't need to worry about who sees him use his real ability, he should be fine. Aaroniero's strength lies in his thousands of abilities, too bad we've only seen 1..... If he was captain level, I'd say he'd be okay, but he only seemed around high VC. So I see him getting caught.

UchihaHunter
March 15, 2011, 10:17 PM
I dunno who I'm going to vote for here, but random note about Aaroniero...

Didn't Zommari call him the only member of the original Espada still in the Espada? Basically, what I mean is that even though Szayel apparently evolved to the point of outranking his reiatsu, at some point, Szayel wasn't an Espada, but Aaroniero presumably still was. Even though he sealed Renji's Bankai, Szayel wasn't damaged much at all by Renji's Shikai...like at all, IIRC. Aaroniero isn't super strong, but I doubt he's only around high VC. He completely owned Rukia, who IMO seems pretty solidly VC level, and that was with one ability, and even after she got her resolve back. He's probably low Captain-level, below Komamura, but above Ikkaku. Otherwise, the dude Ikkaku fought would've been an Espada, no?

ShootToKill
March 15, 2011, 10:28 PM
I think Aaroniera would definitely take Yumichika unless he released, in which case Yumi might win - I don't think his and Aaroniero's Reiatsu difference is so great that Aaroniero could escape.

If Aaroniero won, I still think Hallibel could take both him and Rose, so right now I'm going with Aqua Beauty.

UchihaHunter
March 15, 2011, 10:32 PM
Actually, Aqua Beauty wins this. Harribel shits on Aaroniero, and I don't think Rose can beat Harribel with what he's shown.

leshrak
March 15, 2011, 11:58 PM
Yumichika has no reason not to release, as none of the fighters is from gotei 13. His shikai is pretty hax and i think it can beat Aaroniero. I also think Harribel can take Rose

El Samurai Guapo
March 16, 2011, 12:22 AM
Aaroniero can at the very least take Yumichika.

As for Rose, I'm not surprised at all by the comments on this thread, I've come to expect that most of you don't even treat Rose like he's good enough to be a captain, meanwhile the whole reason Harribel is in this losers bracket is because you all voted Kenpachi over her. I think Rose can take Harribel, she's nowhere near Starkk's level, and nothing in her arsenal comes even close to Starrk's wolves. She's strong in her own right, but if Lisa was able to hold her own against her, then by all means Rose should dominate.

I also don't understand what people have against whips here, they're a viable weapon, having better reach than a sword, and being far more difficult to predict. What's more is Kinshara can apparently be extended and retracted, so Rose actually has some pretty decent range. With the mask on, any strike from Kinshara is going to hurt, and if he manages to latch the flower onto her body and use Izayoi bara it's over.

Takahashi
March 16, 2011, 12:32 AM
As for Rose, I'm not surprised at all by the comments on this thread, I've come to expect that most of you don't even treat Rose like he's good enough to be a captain, meanwhile the whole reason Harribel is in this losers bracket is because you all voted Kenpachi over her. I think Rose can take Harribel, she's nowhere near Starkk's level, and nothing in her arsenal comes even close to Starrk's wolves. She's strong in her own right, but if Lisa was able to hold her own against her, then by all means Rose should dominate.

I voted for Halibel over Kenpachi...I'm not underrating Rose, I think Halibel is a lot stronger than she gets credit for.


I also don't understand what people have against whips here, they're a viable weapon, having better reach than a sword, and being far more difficult to predict. What's more is Kinshara can apparently be extended and retracted, so Rose actually has some pretty decent range. With the mask on, any strike from Kinshara is going to hurt, and if he manages to latch the flower onto her body and use Izayoi bara it's over.

It's more that a whip won't do much to a giant wave of water. Also, what makes you think that her getting hit once by Izayoi Bara means it's over? I seriously doubt a single Shikai attack can drop a high level Espada.

El Samurai Guapo
March 16, 2011, 12:42 AM
What does the water have to do with making his whip ineffective? He's going to be targeting her, not her water (which Rose himself will just evade).

So what if Izayoi Bara is a shikai attack? There's lots of shikai out there that have abilities that can easily drop someone of Harribel's level. Suzumebachi? Katen Kyoukotsu? Benihime? Engetsu (Isshin)? Ryuujin Jakka? He's got the mask too, so even if his shikai wasn't normally as impressive as some of those I just mentioned, I think hollowfication more than compensates.

Takahashi
March 16, 2011, 12:46 AM
What does the water have to do with making his whip ineffective? He's going to be targeting her, not her water (which Rose himself will just evade).

What? Why is it as simple as just evading it? Dodging a whip is far easier than dodging a giant torrent of water.


So what if Izayoi Bara is a shikai attack? There's lots of shikai out there that have abilities that can easily drop someone of Harribel's level. Suzumebachi? Katen Kyoukotsu? Benihime? Engetsu (Isshin)? Ryuujin Jakka? He's got the mask too, so even if his shikai wasn't normally as impressive as some of those I just mentioned, I think hollowfication more than compensates.

Suzumebachi, and Katen Kyoukotsu are in the more hax category. Ryujin Jakka is self explanatory, Behihime and Engetsu happen to belong to two VERY powerful Shinigami. Rose hasn't shown enough to say his power can rival those. Hollowfication makes things more powerful, but the degree is incalculable. Not saying it's weak, but one shot? No way.

coolerthanzerok
March 16, 2011, 01:07 AM
I think it's fun to consider that Yumichika's ability drains reiatsu, which Aaroniro has a WHOLE LOT OF. I feel like he'd release and just snap Ruriiro Kujaku into pieces. (at which point Harribel would stab him in the face anyways)

El Samurai Guapo
March 16, 2011, 01:20 AM
What? Why is it as simple as just evading it? Dodging a whip is far easier than dodging a giant torrent of water.

Yeah actually, the a giant wave is far easier to see coming and predict than Kinshara is. The water isn't as lethal either.


Suzumebachi, and Katen Kyoukotsu are in the more hax category. Ryujin Jakka is self explanatory, Behihime and Engetsu happen to belong to two VERY powerful Shinigami. Rose hasn't shown enough to say his power can rival those. Hollowfication makes things more powerful, but the degree is incalculable. Not saying it's weak, but one shot? No way.

You can try and label them however you want, the point is shikai can kill top-tier esapda; so saying Izayoi Bara definitely won't do the trick simply because it's a shikai attack is dumb. Not everyone's shikai is worthless like Byakuya's. Heck even Gin who's also got a pretty worthless shikai is definitely sill capable of killing.

Sure the amount of damage Izayoi Bara will do is incalculable, just like with pretty much any explosion we've seen (e.g. lanza del relampago, jakuhou raikoben), but that also means you can't say "No way" either.

Random101
March 16, 2011, 01:38 AM
... A whip isn't lethal. Well, at least not with solidified skin. Water is far more lethal in a lot more ways.

Granted these are ways that are generally ignored by shounen, see also ice, fire, and lightning, but getting hit by a Cascada is going to hurt a hell of a lot more than getting whacked at with the whip. The advantage of the whip lies in grappling, ala how Aizen used it on Rose and Love, because thing doesn't cut to say the least. Particularly not against any sort of hierro, bar non captain level arrancar.

Takahashi
March 16, 2011, 02:04 AM
Yeah actually, the a giant wave is far easier to see coming and predict than Kinshara is. The water isn't as lethal either.

I don't understand....How is something like Cascada easier to dodge than a whip? Also, water is indeed lethal, it has tremendous crushing power.




You can try and label them however you want, the point is shikai can kill top-tier esapda; so saying Izayoi Bara definitely won't do the trick simply because it's a shikai attack is dumb. Not everyone's shikai is worthless like Byakuya's. Heck even Gin who's also got a pretty worthless shikai is definitely sill capable of killing.

No, I'm not saying Shikai in general. I'm talking about Rose's Shikai specifically, I don't see how, in any way it could one shot Halibel. Halibel who was hit with Hitsugaya's strongest attack, still fought, and took two slashes from Aizen himself to bring down. I don't see any proof that Izayoi Bara can replicate that damage in a single attack, at all.


Sure the amount of damage Izayoi Bara will do is incalculable, just like with pretty much any explosion we've seen (e.g. lanza del relampago, jakuhou raikoben), but that also means you can't say "No way" either.

I'm saying "no way" to a one shot, I'm not saying she cannot be killed by it. You're clearly underestimating her if you think a single attack would kill her.

Jorge D. Dragon
March 16, 2011, 01:21 PM
I'd go with Aqua Beauty here.
Aaroniero is not only the weakest among Espada, but also is a bit overrated. His only feat was having plenty of abilities (that were not shown) and beating Rukia that is pretty lame, cause she isn't stronger than Umichika. I'd actually say that Umichikai is stronger. He was shown practically at Ikkaku's level in abilities and both of them are considered to be at VC level and not only VC but high VC level along with Kira and Hisagi. Also his Shikai is pretty useful in sense that he can drain Reiatsu from his opponent and heal himself and become more powerful.
I don't actually think that Umichika can beat Aaroniero, but he can clearly delay him and make an opening for Harribel to hit him in the head.
Also about Harribel vs Rose. I agree that Rose is strong, but people are clearly overstemating him. I don't think that even his Shikai + Mask are at the same level as Hitsugaya's Bankai and Hitsu strugled pretty much even with his Bankai against Harribel and couldn't beat her in the end.
So I dno't think that Rose with just Shikai and Mask that has a time limit on it will prevail.

Raizen
March 16, 2011, 01:34 PM
Aqua Beauty without a doubt.

Yumi would be able to stall the 9th espada for a while. However, once it release, yumi is in trouble. But the big size of the 9th makes it a bigger target for cascada, which should be enough to take it out.

Rose has not shown anything that makes me think he can take on halibel. Good luck trying to use a whip in CQC against halibel. I have nothing against whips. Kurama from Yu Yu Hakusho used a whip and he was my favorite. Difference was, hsi whip was sharp, fast, small, and not too long. He was also intelligent unlike rose. Once he tries to whip hallibel, she would sondio up close and take him out. With nothing to defend him due to his whip being far away, he is F-ed. That is how I see most captains taking him down. Or even grabbing his whip then attacking

SaintSheik
March 16, 2011, 03:25 PM
Damn, these team bouts are harder to vote for than the ongoing tournament.

I would say Aqua Beauty mainly due to the fact that her third Espada status tends to get ignored due to her battle with Hitsugaya which had an elemental variable and the fact that she was KS'd by Aizen. I think the top three VL-level Espada can take this, with Yumichika serving as unnecessary backup.

Exodi
March 16, 2011, 06:27 PM
*props to whoever is coming up with the team names. Some of them are pretty funny.

I'm giving it to team Aqua Beauty.

Quite frankly, I think Yumichika is unnecessary here. Harribel can definitely take on Aaroniero, considering their ranks and their abilities.

I can see Harribel taking Rose down, too. I can't really see how his whip would be effective against giant torrents of water. Harribel also wields a giant sword that's at least 2/3 as tall as she is. Good luck getting a whip around that.

Hystzen
March 16, 2011, 06:55 PM
He was also intelligent unlike rose.

curious..why you find Rose is not intelligent ..he not really shown any stupid moves or done anything rash to say he not intelligent

xXAshisogiJizoXx
March 17, 2011, 10:01 AM
Hmm, I wonder if Hitsuguya+Rukia vs Halibel+AA would have been a more interesting match as each has faced another one on the other team, and they all have water based abilities.

Anyways, without consideration of Rose's unknown Bankai, Team aqua beauty should win fairly easily. Body possession and Zan destruction would be game changers in a team battle, but there is only weak indirect evidence for AA still having them, although no reason why he shouldn't. Rose's shikai is not useless; having such small surface area, I can see it going through the water quite cleanly. However that still results in Halibel getting a booboo, and Rose being crushed by a tidal wave (assuming Rose cannot use his explosive abilities when drinking several hundred gallons of water)

Snake_Cowboy
March 17, 2011, 11:57 AM
This was a no-brainer for me. Team Aqua Beauty has this in the bag.

Because of her fight with Hitsugaya, Halibel often doesn't get the credit she deserves; with her skill, power, intelligence and overwhelming water-abilities, she's a power-house to have on your side. Yumichika should not be underestimated either. Despite being only a fifth-seat, I think he's actually around vice-captain level and he has a seriously hax shikai. The fact that he doesn't release it unless he absolutely has to actually works to his advantage, since it allows him to catch his opponents off-guard with it.

But the opposing side...? To be honest, Rose has always seemed like one of the weaker captains to me. With Bankai, that might turn out to be a different story, but obviously, we can't use that as a factor here. Even with his mask, he really hasn't impressed me. Aaroniero is the weakest of the Espada, despite the fact that he also absorbed Kaien, not to mention a huge target once he's released. And since his boast of having 30k different abilities is pointless since we didn't see a single one in his battle with Rukia (:eyeroll )... Yeah, it's not looking good for Team Test Tube Symphonics.

Rose and Aaroniero might have a shot if they quickly gang up to take out Yumichika and then focus on Halibel, but I don't think Rose would play that dirty. Even if he would, Halibel won't let it happen. She'll handle Rose while Yumichika faces Aaroniero. I think Rose will still be able to put up a good fight with his shikai and his Hollow mask, but once Halibel releases, he's screwed: Cascada will drown him and if Halibel can survive Hyoten Hyakkaso (Hitsugaya's strongest attack, on Bankai) unscathed, Kinshara's Izayoi Bara will do jack shit. I think she's more than skilled and strong enough to handle the whip itself too. Rose is going to get murdered. Yumichika will be in a tough spot against Aaroniero. He might be able to keep up with him, even when he's using Nejibana, but once he releases Glotonería, Yumichika has a big problem. Mostly because of Aaroniero's mass: I don't think the vines of Ruri'iro Kujaku will be able to ensnare him. With those massive tentacles, he'd easily break free.

However, once Halibel is finished with Rose (which won't take too long), Cascada and Hierviendo will wash Aaroniero away. If necessary, Halibel will get in and close, go for Aaroniero's real body. I doubt that fishtank is strong enough to survive Halibel's huge blade being buried in it. And with Yumichika there for support as well, is any further explanation required?

Team Aqua Beauty wins.

tousendrinksbleach
March 17, 2011, 03:56 PM
.... yet people wonder why their favorites lose ....
everyone is saying that halibel can beat rose, yet 0 espada managed to beat a captain and rose is a 100+ years captain level with a mask that adds an enormous boost
IMO, halibel gets massacred , she was 2 shoted by aizen , srsly she will fall after a couple of hits by masked rose


and , what did halibel show to start with? she was facing kidsugaya not yamamoto ...

El Samurai Guapo
March 17, 2011, 04:22 PM
Was starting to think I'd be the only one to favor Rose and Aaroniero here.

In my opinion some of you here pay too much attention to the fact that Kinshara is a whip. I don't think the size/shape/type of weapon matters much in bleach to be honest. As long as the user has high enough reiatsu, their zanpakutou should be able to deal damage to their opponent. I think it's a given that Rose has enough reiatsu to damage the 3rd espada with his zanpakutou, with or without the mask.

As for Harribel's water attacks, none of them came across as too damaging to me. The only way I see Harribel putting Rose down is with her big-ass arm-sword, the water attacks should do little more than harass Rose w/ his mask on. Not only that, but this will be another two vs. one because Aaroniero can easily defeat Yumichika.

Random101
March 17, 2011, 04:30 PM
Type of weapon DEFINITELY matters. Unless you think Love is literally incapable of cutting Starrk, then his mallet is never cutting anyone, Omadea's mace is never slicing anything in half, etc...

A whip you might be able to stretch as a cutter, problem is it's never cut anything, in fact got pulled the hell away from him like nothing. Granted via Aizen, but you'd need some actual support of some other kind before you could even begin to go that route to say the least. Just arguing type not mattering is completely invalid even given Bleach.

El Samurai Guapo
March 17, 2011, 04:35 PM
Actually no, I don't think Tengumaru can cut (minus perhaps stabbing with the spikes), nor do I think Omaeda's mace would ever slice anything in half either. Tengumaru and Gegetsuburi do crushing damage.

Likewise I don't think Kinshara is an effective cutter, but I do believe the impact from its strikes would be damaging. Cutting and slashing is not the only way to hurt opponents...

Random101
March 17, 2011, 04:40 PM
Not the only way to effectively hurt sure, but suffice to say the most effective in Bleach is always cutting. Especially when up against Hierro.

tousendrinksbleach
March 17, 2011, 04:43 PM
Also people miraculously forgot how lame halibel looked when she was been held by shikai lisa ....

Type of weapon DEFINITELY matters. Unless you think Love is literally incapable of cutting Starrk, then his mallet is never cutting anyone, Omadea's mace is never slicing anything in half, etc...

A whip you might be able to stretch as a cutter, problem is it's never cut anything, in fact got pulled the hell away from him like nothing. Granted via Aizen, but you'd need some actual support of some other kind before you could even begin to go that route to say the least. Just arguing type not mattering is completely invalid even given Bleach.

care to explain more? i dont really get your point (at least that's what i think) , you are saying that type definitly matters then you say that aizen easily pulled it away like if he would have found it difficult if it was a sword instead of a mace??

El Samurai Guapo
March 17, 2011, 04:51 PM
Aizen stops swords with his hands too, so honestly, him catching a battered-up and mask-less Rose's whip shouldn't make Rose look bad in the least.

Random101
March 17, 2011, 04:55 PM
Also people miraculously forgot how lame halibel looked when she was been held by shikai lisa ....
What you mean the Harribel who just got out from a technique designed to kill her and was weakened enough that she apparently couldn't use her water techs anymore, despite Hitsugaya providing a metric crapton of ice to fuel her right there? And despite that could still take two blows from Aizen to take down?

Suffice to say that instance isn't particularly downgrading for her. >>

Also it being Aizen is specifically why I denote it as Aizen. My point is there's no feats of that thing being able to cut, just embed the spike part of it into energy wolves that blew appart with a mallet anyway. With Cutting being the only really effective means of taking someone down, particularly with Hierro, having a lack of capability for doing so works against him to say the least. >>

freshseth83
March 18, 2011, 12:24 AM
I don't see much going for Rose. I don't really care much for Hallibel either. None of these characters in fact interest me much. But I don't see how Rose would use his sonata on Hallibel. Don't see it happening. And I don't see it harming her either. I'm not going into specifics, but the slight edge goes to Hallibel's Aqua beauty team.

leshrak
March 18, 2011, 02:18 PM
IMO, halibel gets massacred , she was 2 shoted by aizen , srsly she will fall after a couple of hits by masked rose

.

Well, rose was 1 shoted by Aisen so, by camparison, Harribel did very well actually...

If Rose had acess to bankai, i'd probably vote for him, but only shikai+mask doesn't seems to be enought to defeat Harribel. Only captain who defeated an espada with Shikai was Shunsui, and he's OMFG senior

Cooper
March 18, 2011, 05:28 PM
lol, what will Rose do? Whip Halibel to death? (Bad girl, bad! :eyeroll)
As for Aroniero.. If Rukia can do it so can any VC level fighter.
Aqua Beauty stomps.

Jackk
March 19, 2011, 12:05 AM
Team Test Tube Symphonics wins.

First of all Yumichika has a pretty good shikai for a 5th seat, but he's really not going to be doing much, if anything at all, in this fight because he's facing faster and significantly more powerful opponents. Aaroniero may not be one of the most powerful Espadas reiatsu-wise, but he can, at the very least, beat Yumichika.

Further, I think Rose is being severally underestimated here. I mean sure, we haven't seen a whole lot from him yet. But seriously, the guy was an actual captain 100+ years ago-- who also went through hollowfication etc.

Anyway, enough with the hype. What we did see from Rose was him--with his Mask on-- actually tanking, yes, tanking a huge explosion from several wolves--which were part of Stark's soul and his ultimate technique. We see both Rose and Love right next to each other and both getting bitten by some wolves which resulted in a massive explosion engulfing them and shattering their Mask, here:

http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-373/page010.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-373/page011.html

Then, here: http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-373/page012.html ... we see Love and Rose coming out of the explosion in the top right panel, and on the one below it we can see Rose flying normally with very minor bruises. Then after that... they got caught--without their Masks-- by another pack of wolves which injured them more, but they were still able to get back up; Love and Rose were still far from finished. Love even said that he wasn't going to go down yet. Granted perhaps one of them was about to go Bankai, but still... the point is that Love and Rose showed incredible endurance. I mean, Stark even stated that his ceros would not have hurt fighters of their caliber, much less deal the kind of damage that they were already sustaining. Rose is certainly tough.

http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-373/page013.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-373/page014.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-373/page015.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-374/page001.html

The point of showing that is to show that Rose could take direct explosions from the #1 Espada's ultimate soul wolves technique and still be in decent shape; Rose even went after Aizen later. Granted Rose was defeated by Aizen, but Rose wasn't wearing his Mask and well... that was Aizen... the same guy who also easily defeated Harribel as well as a whole lot of other captains too. Anyway, it should be obvious that Stark's wolves deal significantly more damage than anything Harribel has shown. Stark is two whole ranks above Harribel. Stark has more reiatsu, thus he has more power behind his techniques. Heck Stark's reiatsu was so great that there were mountains of dead hollows in Hueco Mundo that simply died on their own just by being around Stark. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-388-page-7.html

Furthermore, Rose's Masked Izayoi Bara tech seemed very powerful. Why? Because Rose tried to destroy some of Stark's wolves by striking them quickly with his whip (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-373/page007.html), but the wolves actually regenerated/reformed quickly. Then, Rose got annoyed by Stark's "magic" and used his Sonata #11 (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-10.html), Izayoi Bara, to cause a large explosion that completely annihilated those wolves that were on the sky (http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-11.html) before they could reform. The problem was that there were more of those wolves that came after them from behind; it was hard to avoid them all. But Rose's Izayoi Bara seemed quite powerful and if he manages to hit Harribel with that, she's definitely going to be severally hurt, to say the least.

Also, this is Bleach, why can't Rose use his power and strength while wearing his Mask to deal some serious injuries to Harribel? Or why can't Rose wrap the whip around her, and then pull hard in order to dislocate or cut something or at least toss her aside? I can come up with very creative things he could do with that whip. :toc

Seriously, even just striking your opponent with a powerful whip should still hurt, specially if the strike is followed by a special explosive technique. Rose really has ways to damage Harribel.

In addition, we also know that Rose's whip can extend and retract with ease, and he can also change its movement and direction when attacking, which can certainly be useful in combat. Heck, even if Rose can't cut through Harribel with the whip...can't he still then use his sealed sword together with his Mask to cut things? ...Then, Rose can also activate his shikai at certain times to attack with ranged attacks, and use his special explosions from his whip. We also know that Rose can do those explosions while he himself keeps a distance from the enemy by extending his whip. I do believe that Rose has options; he can fight with short, mid and long range. I'm sure that Rose can play his cards right since he also seems to be an analytical and smart fighter. I think Rose can take down Harribel.

El Samurai Guapo
March 19, 2011, 12:36 AM
Jackk makes a good point. If Rose can get hit with the primera's ultimate move (a ridiculously broken attack that would have also easily eaten [insert your favorite captain from the gotei 13 here] alive) more than once and still be standing, it's going to take a lot from Harribel to bring him down. And if people want to argue that Rose's whip and Izayoi Bara won't do anything because it lacks damage feats, go ahead and take that route; I can sit here and say the same about literally any one of Harribel's water techniques.
[hr]

If Rose had acess to bankai, i'd probably vote for him, but only shikai+mask doesn't seems to be enought to defeat Harribel. Only captain who defeated an espada with Shikai was Shunsui, and he's OMFG senior

It's actually got more to do with the fact that Starrk got OMFG shadow back-stabbed.

Random101
March 19, 2011, 12:37 AM
Or you know, it's not a blast and he has no way of keeping successive hits from piling up. Masks block Ceros and the like, not bloody water. And butchery blade is butchery. Not even getting into all the other issues water bring. Crushing force != blast damage to say the least. >>

Much less superheated crushing force, though admittedly given she never connected Herviendo with anything that's a hard sell without something beyond a name to go with.

I'm not saying he'll go down fast mind, but with the dude with one tech to reliably go with, no easy way to cause damage to someone who does have better tanking than him, and a limited, though still potent range to work with, the one to go with is clear. Especially when one gets stronger and stronger attacks as the fight goes on, as opposed to just running out of juice and mask time.

Jackk
March 19, 2011, 12:50 AM
I don't see how Harribel's water would do more damage than several explosions from the primera's ultimate technique. And Rose has no way of keeping successive hits from piling up? How about dodging them? ....He's not a brute like Kenpachi. I don't think Rose will just stand there and take a shower with Harribel's water.

freshseth83
March 19, 2011, 01:04 AM
The Primera's 'ultimate technique' was used not on just Rose, but on Love, so in reality he had two opponents in which he 'split' the duty of his 'spirit bombs'. One more shot and they were done for. After the second explosion Rose and Love fell out the sky. He took a lickin' but I don't see him winning against Hallibel to be honest. Not with what he has shown.

Jackk
March 19, 2011, 01:09 AM
^ They were both caught in the same explosions together. Also, they didn't fell out the sky (http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-373/page015.html). What manga are you reading?

El Samurai Guapo
March 19, 2011, 01:30 AM
That bs was from the anime.

freshseth83
March 19, 2011, 01:32 AM
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-16.html In the sky getting caught in the explosion.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-17.html not in the sky any longer- they obviously got knocked out the sky- unless you think they floated down.

Need more proof?

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-18.html Where are they at there? Still 'floating'? If so, why is Starrk floating down?

Jackk
March 19, 2011, 01:33 AM
That bs was from the anime.

What bs? Rose and Love falling from the sky? I actually don't even remember that, but I guess it must have been in the anime because it certainly wasn't in the manga lol...
[hr]

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-16.html In the sky getting caught in the explosion.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-17.html not in the sky any longer- they obviously got knocked out the sky- unless you think they floated down lol.

Uh.. what?! They're STILL IN mid air...that's in the sky right in that second link.

El Samurai Guapo
March 19, 2011, 01:36 AM
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-16.html In the sky getting caught in the explosion.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-17.html not in the sky any longer- they obviously got knocked out the sky- unless you think they floated down lol.

Dude are you blind?
[hr]

What bs? Rose and Love falling from the sky? I actually don't even remember that, but I guess it must have been in the anime because it certainly wasn't in the manga lol...
<hr noshade size="1">


Yeah, in the anime they fell out of the sky and onto a building.

freshseth83
March 19, 2011, 01:47 AM
The anime drew what happened. I didn't say they weren't in the sky anymore, they did get knocked out the sky where they were at though. This is obvious when Starrk floats down. There'd be no reason to float down if they didn't in some way fall.

The point is Starrk was too much for both of them. So how is it that only one of them could Stand up to Hallibel?
[hr]
http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-375/page014.html This is from the same site you linked to earlier. But you look at the bottom panel, you'll see Love shunpo behind Shunsui. He obviously wasn't in the same position anymore after Starrk hit him and Rose with the wolves.

ShootToKill
March 19, 2011, 01:52 AM
I'm not sure how powerful Izayoi Bara is - it destroyed all the wolves within a pretty large radius, but Shunsui's Bushogoma, which is essentially a technique for disorienting the opponent, also took care of Starrk's wolves without a problem. So going just on this, I can't be sure that it has what it takes to do serious damage to Hallibel.

I think that with his mask Rose would still be a dangerous opponent for Hallibel, but if she outlasts his usage of the mask, then I believe she'll overpower him. It's a pity we haven't seen more from him, if Izayoi Bara is technique #11 then he has a pretty varied Shikai to say the least, so my opinion might be different if we knew more about him.

freshseth83
March 19, 2011, 01:56 AM
Izayoi Bara didn't get rid of the wolves, they reformed and came back. It is an impressive attack, but it didn't work against the wolves. I wonder what it would do to another opponent. But it's hard to gauge.

El Samurai Guapo
March 19, 2011, 02:01 AM
The anime drew what happened.

No, the anime portrayed them getting blown up and falling down onto a building. This was never shown in the manga. Love and Rose emerged from the smoke still standing in the air. They did not get knocked out of the sky like you original claimed.


I didn't say they weren't in the sky anymore,

Really?


http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...6-page-16.html In the sky getting caught in the explosion.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...6-page-17.html not in the sky any longer- they obviously got knocked out the sky- unless you think they floated down lol.

Another lie.


they did get knocked out the sky where they were at though. This is obvious when Starrk floats down. There'd be no reason to float down if they didn't in some way fall.


It's not obvious at all, Starrk chose to land on the pillar for some unknown reason, but Love and Rose were never shown to get knocked down. That's a fact.



http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-375/page014.html This is from the same site you linked to earlier. But you look at the bottom panel, you'll see Love shunpo behind Shunsui. He obviously wasn't in the same position anymore after Starrk hit him and Rose with the wolves.

What is this, I don't even.

So what? This was already some time after Love & Rose got blown up and were last seen. What does it matter if they were still in the same position or not by that point. The point is you were wrong, and had the anime in mind when you made this comment:



After the second explosion Rose and Love fell out the sky.

Jesus could you stop trying to defend an obvious blunder you made and for once admit you made a mistake?
Watch, I'm sure ShootToKill will realize and admit he was wrong about the Bushogoma thing and move on. That's too much to expect from you though apparently.
[hr]

I'm not sure how powerful Izayoi Bara is - it destroyed all the wolves within a pretty large radius, but Shunsui's Bushogoma, which is essentially a technique for disorienting the opponent, also took care of Starrk's wolves without a problem. So going just on this, I can't be sure that it has what it takes to do serious damage to Hallibel.

That was also in the anime only. The anime REALLY screwed up the fight with Starrk.

freshseth83
March 19, 2011, 02:06 AM
No, the anime portrayed them getting blown up and falling down onto a building. This was never shown in the manga. Love and Rose emerged from the smoke still standing in the air. They did not get knocked out of the sky like you original claimed.



Really?



Another lie.



It's not obvious at all, Starrk chose to land on the pillar for some unknown reason, but Love and Rose where never shown to get knocked down. That's a fact.




What is this, I don't even.

So what? This was already some time after Love & Rose got blown up and were last seen. What does it matter if they were still in the same position or not by that point. The point is you were wrong, and had the anime in mind when you made this comment:



Jesus could you stop trying to defend an obvious blunder you made and for once admit you made a mistake?
<hr noshade size="1">


That was also in the anime only. The anime REALLY screwed up the fight with Starrk.

Another typical post from my MH post critic.

"They fell out the sky" is just that. They fell. I didn't say "They got slammed to the ground"

The point is you read so much into whatever I post, it's like you have to respond to everything I write! Why don't you just back off and read the pages again. You clearly see Starrk look down on them. Then he goes and lands on a LOWER area and says here comes the death blow. The facts are, they got blown out the sky where they were at. Like I said. I don't have to go into details about where they were, or how far they ended up going. They were trying to escape, obviously moving. So getting blown up by the wolves, they fell out the sky. There's nothing more to read into it. I never said they couldn't hold their footing 'floating' in the air. Maybe if you stopped looking for mistakes and things to get at me about, you would notice that I never said anything along the lines of what you're implying.

I know it's hard for you to take what I say seriously, but that's ok. I can forgive you for attacking my every post. It must be a bore though, having to have a reply for every little thing I say. Just because they were running and could have moved to an area that was higher up than where they ended up, that means they could have gotten blow out the sky. Fell! I can jump and if I get hit in mid air, that's me falling out the sky. Nothing more, nothing less.

Jackk
March 19, 2011, 02:13 AM
The anime drew what happened.

Factually incorrect.


I didn't say they weren't in the sky anymore, they did get knocked out the sky where they were at though.

Factually incorrect, and a blatant contradiction to your previous statement. This is the fourth time you contradict yourself between this thread and the other one. Seriously...it's obvious that you're just trying to save face now.


This is obvious when Starrk floats down. There'd be no reason to float down if they didn't in some way fall.

Logical fallacy.


The point is Starrk was too much for both of them. So how is it that only one of them could Stand up to Hallibel?

Completely missed the point.


http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/chapter-375/page014.html This is from the same site you linked to earlier. But you look at the bottom panel, you'll see Love shunpo behind Shunsui. He obviously wasn't in the same position anymore after Starrk hit him and Rose with the wolves.

That does not prove that Rose and Love fell out the sky from the second explosion--which was what you had claimed. Heck you outright claimed that they were no longer in the sky.

See this:

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad121/gias14/Odd/RoseLove.jpg


Izayoi Bara didn't get rid of the wolves, they reformed and came back.

Rose's Izayoi Bara actually annihilated the wolves that were on the sky; there were more that sneaked on them from behind though.


I'm not sure how powerful Izayoi Bara is - it destroyed all the wolves within a pretty large radius, but Shunsui's Bushogoma, which is essentially a technique for disorienting the opponent, also took care of Starrk's wolves without a problem.

Shunsui never faced Stark's wolves in the manga. ;)

ShootToKill
March 19, 2011, 02:22 AM
Ah ok, I assumed that it would have been in the manga, since quite a point seemed to have been made of it in the anime. My mistake :p

I still stand by the belief that Izayoi Bara is ideal for dealing with large quantities of "weaker" entities rather than a single strong enemy. Also, not trying to get too caught up in physics, but if Gin's Bankai can move anywhere close to Mach 500 and Izayoi Bara, being a sound based attack, would be Mach 1, I would think Hallibel could Sonido out of the way of it pretty easily if Ichigo can almost dodge Gin's Bankai.

Jackk
March 19, 2011, 02:30 AM
Ah ok, I assumed that it would have been in the manga, since quite a point seemed to have been made of it in the anime. My mistake :p

No worries. :)


I still stand by the belief that Izayoi Bara is ideal for dealing with large quantities of "weaker" entities rather than a single strong enemy. Also, not trying to get too caught up in physics, but if Gin's Bankai can move anywhere close to Mach 500 and Izayoi Bara, being a sound based attack, would be Mach 1, I would think Hallibel could Sonido out of the way of it pretty easily if Ichigo can almost dodge Gin's Bankai.

Hard to say. I actually think Rose's whip moved pretty darn fast, but we have really no way of knowing how fast exactly. It just comes down to opinion in the end. Besides, I'm one of those who believes that Gin was going easy on Ichigo. ;)

freshseth83
March 19, 2011, 02:35 AM
Another typical post from my MH post critic.

"They fell out the sky" is just that. They fell. I didn't say "They got slammed to the ground"

The point is you read so much into whatever I post, it's like you have to respond to everything I write! Why don't you just back off and read the pages again. You clearly see Starrk look down on them. Then he goes and lands on a LOWER area and says here comes the death blow. The facts are, they got blown out the sky where they were at. Like I said. I don't have to go into details about where they were, or how far they ended up going. They were trying to escape, obviously moving. So getting blown up by the wolves, they fell out the sky. There's nothing more to read into it. I never said they couldn't hold their footing 'floating' in the air. Maybe if you stopped looking for mistakes and things to get at me about, you would notice that I never said anything along the lines of what you're implying.

I know it's hard for you to take what I say seriously, but that's ok. I can forgive you for attacking my every post. It must be a bore though, having to have a reply for every little thing I say. Just because they were running and could have moved to an area that was higher up than where they ended up, that means they could have gotten blow out the sky. Fell! I can jump and if I get hit in mid air, that's me falling out the sky. Nothing more, nothing less.

Going to quote myself for 'Guapo's backup QB'.

First line there, Jacck- "They fell out the sky" is just that. They fell. I didn't say "They got slammed to the ground" :blink

Another line for you, Jacck- You clearly see Starrk look down on them. Then he goes and lands on a LOWER area and says here comes the death blow. The facts are, they got blown out the sky where they were at.

Here's one more, Jacck- They were trying to escape, obviously moving. So getting blown up by the wolves, they fell out the sky. There's nothing more to read into it. I never said they couldn't hold their footing 'floating' in the air.

Just in case you missed this part, Jacck- Just because they were running and could have moved to an area that was higher up than where they ended up, that means they could have gotten blow out the sky. Fell! I can jump and if I get hit in mid air, that's me falling out the sky.

Also, when I stated it was drawn in the anime what happened, I was answering YOUR question about how the anime showed that. Or do you not remember this statement?- Quote: El Samurai Guapo- That bs was from the anime. What bs? Rose and Love falling from the sky? I actually don't even remember that, but I guess it must have been in the anime because it certainly wasn't in the manga lol...

See what happens when you read into things too much? You try to point the finger when there's nothing to point at. I'm well aware of how you and Guapo view my posts. It's fine. Like I told him though, it must be a bore to have a reply to my every post. Maybe to you its not. It sure seems like you get a kick out of trying to find faults in things I post. So sad. :(

ShootToKill
March 19, 2011, 02:36 AM
Hard to say. I actually think Rose's whip moved pretty darn fast, but we have really no way of knowing how fast exactly. It just comes down to opinion in the end. Besides, I'm one of those who believes that Gin was going easy on Ichigo. ;)
Totally agree about Gin going easy on Ichigo, but I think his going easy was more in the sense of giving Ichigo the heads up every time he was about to attack, I don't think he was actually slowing his Bankai down (I'm not sure whether he can slow it down).

Jackk
March 19, 2011, 02:50 AM
Going to quote myself for 'Guapo's backup QB'.

First line there, Jacck- "They fell out the sky" is just that. They fell. I didn't say "They got slammed to the ground" :blink

Stop contradicting yourself and stop making stuff up.

Here's what you really said:


http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-16.html In the sky getting caught in the explosion.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-17.html not in the sky any longer- they obviously got knocked out the sky- unless you think they floated down.

Need more proof?

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-386-page-18.html Where are they at there? Still 'floating'? If so, why is Starrk floating down?

You said it right there in the bold and underlined text. You claimed that they were "not in the sky any longer" !

And we showed you that you were wrong; they were STILL in mid air--which is still in the sky. Then you started saying that you never stated that they were no longer in the sky. Seriously, Stop contradicting yourself. And stop lying.

freshseth83
March 19, 2011, 03:11 AM
Still grabbing for anything you can get?

I gave you an example of being "in the sky". That's in the air, or flying, or jumping. They were beaten up bad enough that they weren't flying, or jumping, or escaping any longer. That's why you see them kneeling. Which is the link I gave. Did you not get that? Regardless of where they were at, they were beaten up and fell out the sky. If you don't read the manga over and over like I do, I can see how you could miss that. But for someone who swears they know everything, you sure do miss a lot.

Like usual, the dynamic duo taking people's comments out of context. Reading in between the lines. Taking things too literally. I can't say it wasn't expected though. You two are my biggest fans!

Sevenheadedmirror
March 20, 2011, 02:01 PM
I never believed AA was 9 and I also guess neither did Kubo, that's why he gave him a weak point. Let's be realistic here, this guy had what did he said? 10,000 or something hollows and absorbe their direct power? that means if this guy weren't in the sun he could use both Yammi's and Stark's more fancy powers (a humongous cero or fifthy of them at top speed).

But I don't know what to do. If the fight is anywhere but hollow world (no sun save Aizen's titanic colloseum with a fake sun) Rose will have to deal with two people. Yumichika he can take easily (he kinda depends on an opponent not being able to fly, do shunpo or be stupid enough to remain close to him when the tentacles go for him.) but shark girl will remain to limit his movements kind of sucks to be him.

So.. where's the fight?

Takahashi
March 20, 2011, 02:02 PM
I never believed AA was 9 and I also guess neither did Kubo, that's why he gave him a weak point. Let's be realistic here, this guy had what did he said? 10,000 or something hollows? that means if this guy weren't in the sun he could use both Yammi's and Stark's more fancy powers (a humongous cero or fifthy of them at top speed).

But I don't know what to do. If the fight is anywhere but hollow world (no sun save Aizen's titanic colloseum with a fake sun) Rose will have to deal with two people. Yumichika he can take easily (he kinda depends on an opponent not being able to fly, do shunpo or be stupid enough to remain close to him when the tentacles go for him.) but shark girl will remain to limit his movements kind of sucks to be him.

I think it was more like 33 000 Hollows or something. At any rate, he's only shown one ability, so we can't make assumptions on the rest.

Sevenheadedmirror
March 20, 2011, 02:15 PM
I think it was more like 33 000 Hollows or something. At any rate, he's only shown one ability, so we can't make assumptions on the rest.
But that ability was getting stabbed in the face LOL

...well in a sense we could, I mean AA got to use all of the black haired Ichigo's skills with relative ease and it was a man absorbed by a hollow. I know inferring other stuff is highly cheap (I always argument against it) but let's be honest both characters in tube team didn't appeared but for little time: Rose only lasted a single chap and AA lasted one second after his release, while we know all what the other guys could do. Asking not to deduce a little stuff is like giving instant victory to beauty. I think it's completely valid in a hypothetical case.

Once again to me it depends if AA gets to use his power freely or not.

Takahashi
March 20, 2011, 02:26 PM
But that ability was getting stabbed in the face LOL

:tem


...well in a sense we could, I mean AA got to use all of the black haired Ichigo's skills with relative ease and it was a man absorbed by a hollow. I know inferring other stuff is highly cheap (I always argument against it) but let's be honest both characters in tube team didn't appeared but for little time: Rose only lasted a single chap and AA lasted one second after his release, while we know all what the other guys could do. Asking not to deduce a little stuff is like giving instant victory to beauty. I think it's completely valid in a hypothetical case.

Once again to me it depends if AA gets to use his power freely or not.

That's true, but that's part of the disadvantage of not showing enough and being thrown in this tournament. Sucks to be the Test Tubes, I know.

freshseth83
March 20, 2011, 04:08 PM
I like that! -Black Haired Ichigo, hah!- Shiba never had a better compliment!

Takahashi
March 20, 2011, 05:30 PM
I like that! -Black Haired Ichigo, hah!- Shiba never had a better compliment!

Kaien's Shikai is fucking sexy though. I want to see another similar one.

Random101
March 20, 2011, 05:44 PM
Spears an tridents are underused and a lot of fun, particularly when stacked with slick abilities like water flow control and goddamn lightning. Sadly Bleach is in freaking love with Katana, which like generic swords are frankly too overused. >>

Granted Fists are pretty slick too, but defenses in bleach are such that they're unreliable unless you're freaking Yamamoto. Now if a shikai augmented a HTH style both offensively and defensively against swords, that'd be pretty damn sweet.

El Samurai Guapo
March 20, 2011, 06:04 PM
Well if Tekken Tachikaze's blade-fist things are anything like his shikai knife (which can make explosions after stabbing you), then you definitely don't want to get punched by those things.

CeroOskuraz
March 20, 2011, 07:48 PM
What the...

A Visored Lieutenant (http://www.mangareader.net/94-33754-14/bleach/chapter-375.html) can hold her own against Harribel. You guys are not seriously suggesting that a Visored Captain would lose to Harribel and a fodder VC are you?

Rose would undeniably solo.

El Samurai Guapo
March 20, 2011, 07:56 PM
What the...

A Visored Lieutenant (http://www.mangareader.net/94-33754-14/bleach/chapter-375.html) can hold her own against Harribel. You guys are not seriously suggesting that a Visored Captain would lose to Harribel and a fodder VC are you?

Rose would undeniably solo.

Yeah, that's actually what I said. You should have helped me out on this thread sooner; it closes in 15 minutes.

Apparently Rose can't injure Harribel because his weapon is a whip...

CeroOskuraz
March 20, 2011, 08:06 PM
Lol@that.

You guys do remember that Rose destroyed the Majority of the Primera Espada's trump card attack with just his Shikai and Mask, right? Right???

Jackk
March 20, 2011, 08:09 PM
Lol@that.

You guys do remember that Rose destroyed the Majority of the Primera Espada's trump card attack with just his Shikai and Mask, right? Right???

I also pointed out the fact that Rose's Masked Izayoi Bara tech was able to annihilate the wolves that were in the sky (there were more that sneaked on them from behind; too many to handle...but Rose did have the power to destroy some). But few people listened to me... :darn

Tsukisama
March 20, 2011, 08:15 PM
Team Aqua Beauty wins! They shall advance into the next round. Discuss the result of this match and all others in the Tournament Discussion thread.

Stay tuned for more details! :cheerbunny