Top Tier RD 1 Naruto vs Kisame [Archive]

vintagemistakes

April 16, 2011, 11:06 AM

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6676/narutovskisame.jpg

this keeps the others ones nicely aligned

Naruto is currently amongst the most powerful and deadly shinobi on the planet and is the current Jinchuuriki of the Nine-Tails, having fully tamed its chakra, achieving what has been called “Rikudou Mode”. He has also taken Rasengan to a level that its creator, Namikaze Minato, could only dream of by creating the monstrous Fuuton Rasenshuriken. Additionally he has mastered the ancient arts of Sage Mode and is able to greatly enhance his body and abilities with it. Naruto is known for being highly unpredictable in battle and a cunning fighter, and is a master of the Kage Bunshin technique, which is also his favorite technique in battle.
this keeps the others ones nicely aligned

He is a former member of the Mist's Seven Swordsmen, a group with twisted blades and powerful fighters. His own sword Samehada is the most powerful of all the Seven Swords as well as one of the most bizarre swords in the Narutoverse, as it is a living being, capable of quickly absorbing a large quantity of chakra from Kisame's opponent. Kisame as master of the sword is capable of fusing with it, giving birth to a terrifying humanoid shark being, capable of much destruction. Thus his insane amount of chakra and his bizarre form earned him the nicknames "The monster of the Hidden Mist" or "Tailless Bijuu"
this keeps the others ones nicely aligned

Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!

shuha27

May 07, 2011, 03:36 PM

This is a really difficult one. I think I will go with Naruto with this one. Samehada is a living creature. If Naruto turns into Sage Mode and Samehada takes in Naruto's sage chakra than it is utterly useless. Naruto can then spam clones and assault Kisame or turn into Sage Mode.

AlB

May 07, 2011, 03:41 PM

Oh wow, now that's a difficult one. Naruto takes this with extreme difficulty I believe - Kisame is no joke. But then again, even if Samehada is not a living creature, once it transfers sage chakra to kisame the swordsman is finished.

LnDRash

May 07, 2011, 03:54 PM

White Silver King

May 07, 2011, 04:01 PM

Since Naruto is going to win every fight he's placed against, I give this one to Naruto.

hakuthehedgehog

May 07, 2011, 04:03 PM

IMO Naruto wins this one.

Naruto has been shown to enter Sage Mode very quickly, and with clones, he has a quick refill whenever he needs.

Also, Samehada's abilities don't mean much against Naruto's KB and Ma and Pa.

First, Ma and Pa can use frog song, which should also work in the watter, and if it doesn't, Naruto can blow up the dome with a chou oodoma rasegan.

With clones, Naruto can provide decoys and learn of Samehada's chakara devouring capabilities without loosing too much chakra, and with frog Katas, he would be able to disarm Kisame and throw Samehada very far away.

It's worh noting that frog Katas, according to the translation I've heard, use Natural energy, not Natural chakra, so Samehada can't suck them.

In CQC, Naruto defeats Kisame because of frog Katas, or Pa uses his tongue to cut him in half.

Naruto wins this.

blackjack612

May 07, 2011, 04:28 PM

I don't think the manga supports the claim that Samehada can't absorb sage energy. If Naruto were in Sage Mode when Samehada absorbed his energy, then this (http://www.mangareader.net/93-440-3/naruto/chapter-435.html) would likely happen. Sage chakra is natural energy and has been used by Naruto before to turn an energy absorbing enemy into stone. Conversely, if Samehada can't absorb sage chakra, then Naruto doesn't really have a problem. He can stay in sage mode and own Kisame.

As far as I'm concerned, the outcome of this fight was shown in the manga. Naruto has a way of taking out Samehada, and in Kyuubi chakra mode he should be able to easily destroy Kisame without worrying about Daikoudan No Jutsu. And of course, Naruto can summon Ma and Pa to use that beastly genjutsu they used on Pain. How good has Kisame been shown to be at countering genjutsu. We know it's ineffective against jinchuriki, but Samehada doesn't reside within Kisame and if the genjutsu were used on both Samehada and Kisame, there really isn't any escaping is there.

Dapreachor

May 07, 2011, 04:35 PM

Naruto has the 9 tails which is more chakra than any other bijou out there, although he has had nice 9 tails cloak shaved of you are forgetting that he has toad summons who quite like the water, and if he doesn't like that environment he could send 3 clones in 3 different directions with a rasengan in each to break any domes.

Don't forget that naruto hasn't been seriously hurt since he fought sasuke, even if you pierce his chest the kyubi won't let him die.
I guess you could call it a cheap shot but if he stabbed himself with Samehada, similar to the kabuto fight, he could collect natural energy out of balance with his own chakra sending the sword into stone form.

Mikaru

May 07, 2011, 05:10 PM

I'm voting for Naruto on this one, its true that Kisame is the best counter for a jinchuriki, but Samehada has been shown to take a liken to people with high chakra levels which could cause things to turn in Naruto's favor. Ex. Killerbee

Gats

May 07, 2011, 05:21 PM

I think Kisame can't do anything against frog katas, it's a natural energy strike.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v46/c431/17.html

Samehada probably can't smell it, but he can't absorb it, or if he does, the weapon is dead.

Besides Samehada has to "bite" (physically) in order to suck chakra. The only moment Kisame can use its sucking power is when the chakra itself is leaking outside the body, by jutsu or by a kyuubi cloak. In Sage Mode, the chakra itself doesn't leak outside the body unlike the Bijuu cloak (or the raiton cloak as Raikage). So Naruto is quite safe. Once he'll figure out Samehada's main power, he can counter it easily.

Now, if Kisame is cautious and use directly the water dome and fuse with Samehada...Naruto has many options :
*The clones : They're going everywhere, but that temporary, even if the real Naruto can get out, Kisame has just to sense him as the last one remaining and make his dome moving towards Naruto.

*Summons : Let's say Bunta, at least we know for sure he can summon him one way or another. Since he is a frog, the water shouldn't be a problem. Naruto can even hide in his mouth. Bunta is huge enough to get out from the water and Kisame will see that this technique is no longer a viable option. Maybe. Bunta can even use his tongue in order to catch Kisame. Kisame can suck his chakra I think but this should be enough for Naruto to kill/KO him maybe.

*Rasengan : Naruto or his clones, makes some huge Rasengan underwater, it creates a huge whirlpool in the water dome (or make entire dome as a whirlpool). From this, many consequences possible. In any case Kisame will have hard time. Kisame can suck it but he can't swim correctly, it would be very difficult I think.

I can see Kisame summoning many real and water sharks to surround Naruto, but it's useless against the giant frog's option.

Most of Naruto's offensive jutsu are useless against Kisame but with clones (testing Kisame's powers), frog katas and summon(s), he can do many things.

I think Naruto wins in the end. (but I don't vote yet)

lawlett-kun

May 07, 2011, 05:50 PM

Naruto takes it but not an easy battle. I suppose with his new 9 tails mode he will be able to defeat but as we could see Kisame didnt have too much trouble with dealing with Killer Bee. Well id say Naruto takes it, but he gets really exhausted

BBB Banana

May 07, 2011, 06:05 PM

I'm not sure wether Naruto wins or not.

People keep forgeting that Sage chakra only turns people into stone when it outpowers normal chakra in quantity.

And Naruto's sage chakra is not enough to overpower someone (or something) with as much chakra as a tailed beast.

xXan

May 07, 2011, 06:23 PM

Naruto going Rikudo mode would probably remove Samehada from Kisame before he knows WTF happened.

What happened to fat Pein is also going to happen to Samehada. There is no evidence Samehada itself has any hight level of chakra so this is going to happened very fast.

Also Fish Face CAN'T heal from a FRS. So its 1 hit 1 kill (if it hits him of course).

The lake. Well this one is more dificult but considering Naruto can summon frogs to buy him time he should find a way around it. Heh Naruto going some 1000 clones and all running in diferent directions would leave Fish Face going WTF do it do now lol.

MonsterEnvy

May 07, 2011, 06:33 PM

He won't be able to entire Sage mode with Kisame attacking him and if he does it will reqire more then one gulp of Sage chakra to stone samehada

if he uses rasenshuirken then Kisame can just use big shark bullet eating the the huge rasengan and puting him out of businus

his RS mode will just serve as food to Kisame plus if he uses its speed he will just get stuck in the ground or somthing letting Kisame finish him off
[hr]

Naruto has the 9 tails which is more chakra than any other bijou out there, although he has had nice 9 tails cloak shaved of you are forgetting that he has toad summons who quite like the water, and if he doesn't like that environment he could send 3 clones in 3 different directions with a rasengan in each to break any domes.

Don't forget that naruto hasn't been seriously hurt since he fought sasuke, even if you pierce his chest the kyubi won't let him die.
I guess you could call it a cheap shot but if he stabbed himself with Samehada, similar to the kabuto fight, he could collect natural energy out of balance with his own chakra sending the sword into stone form.
the Kyuubi hates him now and will let him die

I'm voting for Naruto on this one, its true that Kisame is the best counter for a jinchuriki, but Samehada has been shown to take a liken to people with high chakra levels which could cause things to turn in Naruto's favor. Ex. Killerbee
that was a Zetsu clone that Samehada bytrayed not Kisame it was a faint Kisame was still Samehada's master and remained so until his death

Naruto going Rikudo mode would probably remove Samehada from Kisame before he knows WTF happened.

What happened to fat Pein is also going to happen to Samehada. There is no evidence Samehada itself has any hight level of chakra so this is going to happened very fast.

Also Fish Face CAN'T heal from a FRS. So its 1 hit 1 kill (if it hits him of course).

The lake. Well this one is more dificult but considering Naruto can summon frogs to buy him time he should find a way around it. Heh Naruto going some 1000 clones and all running in diferent directions would leave Fish Face going WTF do it do now lol.

Rasenshuiken means big shark bullet killing naruto 1000 clones means 1000 sharks eating him

Naruto won't be able to get into sage mode fast enough and if he does he won't have enough sage chakra to really do anything in RS mode he may get a hit on Kisame then he will get stuck or knock himself out giving Kisame an easy win

Kisame can also just fuse with the sword meaning that the narutal chakra will never over power him plus he won't be able to just sit still to repeatidly give Kisame sage chakra

xXan

May 07, 2011, 06:35 PM

LnDRash

May 07, 2011, 07:00 PM

What happened to fat Pein is also going to happen to Samehada. There is no evidence Samehada itself has any hight level of chakra so this is going to happened very fast.

I'am fairy certain thats not the case. Fat Pain sucked out all of Narutos Sage Chakra without turning into stone. He started turning into stone when Naruto started gathering way too much natural energy on purpose.

Fat Pain is like a Leech, that was his downfall... the constant leeching allowed Naruto to create "bad" chakra without turning into stone because Fat Pain was instantly removing it from his body.

Samehada is very different, since it doesn't leech, it bites of chunks of your current chakra. Naruto can't store "bad" chakra because he would turn into stone, so whenever Samehada steals chakra from Naruto it would be perfectly balanced Sage Chakra without any bad side effects.

xXan

May 07, 2011, 07:08 PM

I'am fairy certain thats not the case. Fat Pain sucked out all of Narutos Sage Chakra without turning into stone. He started turning into stone when Naruto started gathering way too much natural energy on purpose.

Fat Pain is like a Leech, that was his downfall... the constant leeching allowed Naruto to create "bad" chakra without turning into stone because Fat Pain was instantly removing it from his body.

Samehada is very different, since it doesn't leech, it bites of chunks of your current chakra. Naruto can't store "bad" chakra because he would turn into stone, so whenever Samehada steals chakra from Naruto it would be perfectly balanced Sage Chakra without any bad side effects.

Let's see.
He already used 2 FRS and 2 sage mode rasengans at that point. He was extremly low on sage chakra and that is way fat Pein was able to get some and not turn into toad instantly. As we know Naruto has a max of 2 FRS/Sage mode. He was running on fumes at that point.

All he has done at that point is get nature chakra AND balanced it as if not he would also turn into a toad. Frog dude states Fat Pein got to much of senjutsu chakra:
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-435-page-5.html
Senjutsu chakra is the already balanced chakra and not the raw Nature chakra. Now considering we got 0 evidence that Samehada has a huge supply of chakra it is going tot go statue in no time.

ninjabot

May 07, 2011, 07:10 PM

Kisame takes the win. He can summon his giant water dome and just chill even prior to fusing with Samehada. Summoning about a trillion water sharks inside the dome keeps him defended from anything Naruto can pull off except FRS. And even that can be stopped with Daikoudan (which will power up the Daikoudan before it devours Naruto).

It'd be hilarious if his Daikoudan turned to stone before falling on top of Naruto mid-shot from swallowing the Sage Chakra inside the FRS.

LnDRash

May 07, 2011, 07:35 PM

...

That could very well be a slight misstranslation, I've seen other scans where he said "natural energy".

Imho it doesn't make sense. Senjutsu chakra is special chakra created by mixing natural energy with your own chakra. If you balance it just right you get "good" Senjutsu chakra, if you take in too much natural energy it becomes "bad" and you turn into a stone frog.

So how can Fat Pain turn into stone by absorbing too much Senjutsu chakra? If it realy was Senjutsu chakra then it means it was already perfectly balanced with Naruto's chakra, which he was clearly stealing at the same time because he can't possibly seperate them.

The only way he could turn into stone is if Naruto suddenly shifted the balance and took in way too much natural energy to turn his chakra "bad" on purpose, which was instantly absorbed by Fat Pain.

May 07, 2011, 07:39 PM

---

Even if the chakra is perfectly balanced it's not easy to control, it has to be maintained, something Pain lacked the skill to do. You can clearly see in the scan that Naruto's eyes received the Sage Mode mark for a "Perfect Sage", meaning Fat Pain actually absorbed perfect Sage chakra and turned into a stone frog by doing so. The same thing would probably happen to Samehada, I see no reason why. It's a living being and would certainly not be able to maintain the balance any better than what Pain could.

KnuckleheadedNinja

May 07, 2011, 08:27 PM

MonsterEnvy

May 07, 2011, 08:37 PM

Naruto wins this. The only reason i consider Kisame capable of fighting with (and potentially defeating) top tier ninjas is because of the samehada, and that would be quick negated in this fight. It wouldn't take long for it to turn into a toad statue.

And there are chances that Samehada can betray Kisame again once he taste Naruto/Kyuubi charka.

the sword never betrayed Kisame it bytrayed a Zetsu clone that looked like Kisame

and your wrong it would take a while to turn Samehada into stone with Sage chakra

shuha27

May 07, 2011, 08:41 PM

the sword never betrayed Kisame it bytrayed a Zetsu clone that looked like Kisame

and your wrong it would take a while to turn Samehada into stone with Sage chakra

No it wouldn't take a while for Samehada to turn into stone. When fat pain absorbed sage chakra it turned into stone at that moment.

The sword did betray Kisame......it would rather have been with Killer Bee because he had more chakra o.O

MonsterEnvy

May 07, 2011, 08:49 PM

He can enter sage mode realy fast, it would be no problem to create 50 clones and then distract Kisame a little.

Naruto could use FRS when Fish Face is NOT using that move. Creating distractions like vs Pein.

His Rikudo mode already smashed Fish Face when he was merged with Samehada so its safe to asume he can hit him faster then the thing can eat his chakra. Not only that the sword can't eat all the chakra at once and he targets the head or the sword its GG. Again sage mode would be more then able to take care of the sword.

minus that kisame can flood the place and keep Naruto on the move he still has to stay totally still for about a minute to go into sage mode

Fish face could use his that move when Naruto uses his strongest and largest move as it would be the best time to use it and Naruto has no idea about what it does

Rikudo mode used body flicker a Jutsu that Kisame and 1000 other jonin know Naruto's speed let him hit Kisame harder then Normal then got him stuck in a wall Kisame then Sucked out his chakra and healed him because it was fine a second latter

Kisame was not even fused with the sword he was inside it if he was fused he would apear in his shark form if he grabs or cuts Naruto he will gain a ton of chakra

Naruto goes really fast when using body flicker he won't be able to aim and if he did he would get his had ripped apart by hiting samehada

sage mode will not turn Samehada into stone right away it will only do so if it eats too much sage chakra if it fused into Kisame even less of chance
[hr]

No it wouldn't take a while for Samehada to turn into stone. When fat pain absorbed sage chakra it turned into stone at that moment.

The sword did betray Kisame......it would rather have been with Killer Bee because he had more chakra o.O

no it did not when Preta path adsorbed the chakra it turned naruto back to normal naruto then just remained still and gather sage chakra causing preta path to continue to adsorb it and turing him into stone after a while it took a whole nother chapter before he became stone

the sword did not beytray Kisame that was a Zetsu clone remember with no were near the level of Kisame's chakra which is why it turned on him because it was not really Kisame plus it was a ploy so Kisame could sneak into kumo

KnuckleheadedNinja

May 07, 2011, 08:51 PM

the sword never betrayed Kisame it bytrayed a Zetsu clone that looked like Kisame

You are right...that was Zetsu clone. But i don't remember the reason the Samehada betraying Kisame been because it was a Zetsu clone. It betray Kisame (the clone) because it found Killerbee's charka to be more delicious.

As you can see right here:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c506/3.html

Samehada also betrayed the real Kisame.

and your wrong it would take a while to turn Samehada into stone with Sage chakra

Why would it? As soon as Naruto goes Sage Mode and the Samehada try to absorb his charka it would turn into stone. There is nothing that will prolong it, unless you telling me that the Samehada can control natural charka.

DEATHBOTT

May 07, 2011, 09:02 PM

MonsterEnvy

May 07, 2011, 09:17 PM

samehada has already tasted kyubi chakra in part one and didn't betray kisame. the reason it likes bee is because his chakra tastes like octapuss. that being said, naruto has a lot more skill with kyubi mode than when he first attacked kisame with it and certainly alot more skill with sage mode than his fight with pain. he can enter both instantly with sage mode negating chakra absorbtion and kyubi mode allowing him to speed blitz kisame. unlike in the story where bee attacked once then looked on as kisame healed naruto can simply giant rasengan barrage kisame till he is dead.

He can't control the new form however and when he used it he got stuck in a wall and broke his ankle if he used it on Kisame say Kisame actully paying attetion could feesibly dogde then kill Naruto who would have crashed into a wall or a tree or somthing

bhasty

May 07, 2011, 10:11 PM

He can't control the new form however and when he used it he got stuck in a wall and broke his ankle if he used it on Kisame say Kisame actully paying attetion could feesibly dogde then kill Naruto who would have crashed into a wall or a tree or somthing

Yes, your right.. but it was at the moment he control the kyubi's chakra.. But after that, he was trained by bee. The manga shown that bee was training naruto on how to used/control his extra hand by piling up the stone and on how to used the bijuudama.. and think bee was already taught naruto on how to control his speed in rikudou mode.. look here (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/51619850/17), and here (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/27928192/5), if he can't control his speed in rikudou mode then he was deffinitely cut the branch or stuck at the moment he escape by jumping on the tree... or he will going to be stuck at the rocks they were running with bee..

Kisame can't feesibly dodge naruto's speed in rikudou mode.. Naruto's speed is too much for kisame to handle.. when naruto punch kisame at the training room, imagine that there's no wall at that time, how many meters will kisame be sent flying? or how many meters will kisame be fell into the ground.?

M3J

May 07, 2011, 11:16 PM

I voted for Naruto. Naruto has come across Kisame before and knows about his ability to steal chakra, he can come up with a better way to fight Kisame. Naruto uses his kage bunshins better now instead of spamming it and hoping for the best, and he can enter Sage Mode quickly enough. Naruto doesn't know enough ninjutsu attacks to really worry about Kisame's shark chakra absorbing ninjutsu thingie. In taijutsu, he'll get overpowered by Kisame's sheer strength, but in Sage Mode, it should be easier to compete with Kisame. Dunno who's faster though.

Can Naruto use chakra to push himself up on top of the water if Kisame floods the battlefield? Though, he could use rasengan to create a defense hurricane like he did with Yamato to save Kakashi, Ino, and chouji. We know Kisame can handle being hit because he was still able to run away from Naruto's speedblitz punch.

Shaunlim

May 07, 2011, 11:18 PM

Rasenshuiken means big shark bullet killing naruto 1000 clones means 1000 sharks eating him

Big shark bullet is not a real viable counter against Rasenshuriken unless there's a large volume of water around Kisame to begin with. Granted he has the ability to produced said volume of water but the water would actually have to be there first before it can be used as a counter.

Also even if Samehada doesn't turn into stone by absorbing Sage Chakra, the sage chakra is still transferred to Kisame. So, it's really a win win situation here for Naruto if his Sage Chakra gets absorbed.

DEATHBOTT

May 07, 2011, 11:45 PM

He can't control the new form however and when he used it he got stuck in a wall and broke his ankle if he used it on Kisame say Kisame actully paying attetion could feesibly dogde then kill Naruto who would have crashed into a wall or a tree or somthing

like i said he has been practicing since then. that was the first second of combat useing that form and he didn't know his own strength, now he does. and kisame was paying attention he was trying to escape them which means he would have dogded if he could have.

ninjabot

May 07, 2011, 11:50 PM

Rikudou King

May 08, 2011, 12:00 AM

I give the win to Kisame. Kisame has pretty much shown he can handle anything Naruto can throw at him. Kisame showed against Kirabi and Gai that he can take fatal attacks and still survive long enough for Samehada to heal him, so Naruto's physical attacks won't be stopping him. Kisame will be able to survive long enough to change the terrain to his advantage, either by making a lake or the water dome. With the lake and dome, Kisame can create thousand of sharks to counter any clones or toads Naruto is using. He can also create his own water clones and use them to trap the real Naruto in a water prison where his strength and power won't mean much. No matter how strong Naruto is, he won't be able to survive long underwater and with no way to escape, Naruto will be stuck.

KiSwordsman

May 08, 2011, 12:03 AM

He can't control the new form however and when he used it he got stuck in a wall and broke his ankle if he used it on Kisame say Kisame actully paying attetion could feesibly dogde then kill Naruto who would have crashed into a wall or a tree or somthing

So basically what your saying is, Kisame was not paying attention even though had three shinobi behind him? Ok I'm calling B.S on that. It Was plainly stated that Naruto's speed was so great that all that could be seen, in bee's case, was a yellow flash. and you're sayin that Kisame could dodge that? Come on man.

ninjabot

May 08, 2011, 12:07 AM

^In Kisame's defense, he was a floating legless blob of shark teeth. To think he could move at full speed in such a form is silly.

Shaunlim

May 08, 2011, 12:08 AM

@Shaunlim: I dunno if that's true about Daikoudan because he attempted to use it against Bee and Raikage after his water dome had already been dispelled.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v50/c473/6.html

No water was present, yet he went for it.

I recall that moment but Daikoudan is clearly a water based ninjutsu which requires water. But I suppose that he could be aiming to use this jutsu while producing the water through some means. Eitherway, this would take time compared to a normal Daikoudan whereby water is already present which means FRS still can't be countered by it unless water is already present.

huynhlan

May 08, 2011, 12:12 AM

I said naruto take this fight. He posses jutsu and the strenght to kill kisame. K isame's water dome won't be a problem to naruto for he can sumon gamabuta and with his new chackra he can summon many more giant frog to help him even ma and pa easily, and I think the water dome is not as big as gamabuta so with him summon the water dome will disperse, and even if it didn't naruto can still escape the water dome by telling gamabuta to jump and I don't think the water dome can float upward even though it move with kisame, and then gamabuta can spit out oil, which naruto can use a explosion tag to set the dome on fire, and we get a barbacue shark.

Rikudou King

May 08, 2011, 12:18 AM

A thousand sharks (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-506/page012.html) would rip Gamabunta apart before he was able to save Naruto.

KiSwordsman

May 08, 2011, 12:21 AM

^In Kisame's defense, he was a floating legless blob of shark teeth. To think he could move at full speed in such a form is silly.

Ok, but that really doesn't matter, if all Bee could see was a yellow flash then I doubt anyone else would have any better luck seeing more then that without a doujutsu. And if you can't see something you can't make your body react to it.

Shaunlim

May 08, 2011, 12:29 AM

A thousand sharks (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-506/page012.html) would rip Gamabunta apart before he was able to save Naruto.

Well, Gamabunta can easily jump to escape those sharks. The size of the dome is roughly about the size of Gamabunta himself to begin with. That and well, him shooting oil into the dome is something interesting to consider since there's the difference in density and the inability to breath in oil by Kisame. That and a single explosive tag would pretty much kill everything inside the dome if enough oil is shot inside.

Rikudou King

May 08, 2011, 12:46 AM

Well, Gamabunta can easily jump to escape those sharks. The size of the dome is roughly about the size of Gamabunta himself to begin with. That and well, him shooting oil into the dome is something interesting to consider since there's the difference in density and the inability to breath in oil by Kisame. That and a single explosive tag would pretty much kill everything inside the dome if enough oil is shot inside. What's the point of jumping when the sharks apparently can jump pretty high too? Not to mention that Gamabunta would come down eventually. As for size (assuming the trees between the countries are the same size) the dome is still considerably larger (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-472/page003.html) then Gamabunta (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-135/page002.html). Shooting oil is not gonna work, since the oil is made of chakra meaning Kisame would be able to absorb all that oil to refill his stamina.

kelv015

May 08, 2011, 12:57 AM

leo81202

May 08, 2011, 01:56 AM

Assuming the way samehada absorbs energy like fat pain, then eventually it would probably turn to stone and/or it could affect Kisame one way or another when he merge with samehada or take its energy. Since naruto has the power of the 9 tails on his side combined with smart use of clones, I say naruto takes this one but barely.

DarkPrinceRevan

May 08, 2011, 01:59 AM

naruto takes this with some difficulty. if naruto sends a clone at kisame with a giant sized rasengan like he did the kyuubi then he can use an frs to cut him down while hes focused on absorbing the first attack.

Shaunlim

May 08, 2011, 02:26 AM

What's the point of jumping when the sharks apparently can jump pretty high too? Not to mention that Gamabunta would come down eventually. As for size (assuming the trees between the countries are the same size) the dome is still considerably larger (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-472/page003.html) then Gamabunta (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-135/page002.html). Shooting oil is not gonna work, since the oil is made of chakra meaning Kisame would be able to absorb all that oil to refill his stamina.

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-471/page016.html This is a better view of the dome and I'm pretty sure it's more or less the same between Gamabunta and the dome. Jumping wise, regardless of high those sharks can jump, Gamabunta is definitely going to be jumping higher. As for coming down after jumping, let's be serious, he's trying to jump out of the dome, not up and down inside the dome.

I see no reason why the oil wouldn't stay there even if the oil is actually made out of chakra. Even if Kisame somehow have the ability to absorb the oil itself, that's still a pretty large volume of oil. And Naruto can certainly throw an explosive kunai faster than Kisame absorbing all the oil.

Rikudou King

May 08, 2011, 03:42 AM

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-471/page016.html This is a better view of the dome and I'm pretty sure it's more or less the same between Gamabunta and the dome. Jumping wise, regardless of high those sharks can jump, Gamabunta is definitely going to be jumping higher. As for coming down after jumping, let's be serious, he's trying to jump out of the dome, not up and down inside the dome. That's not a better view since you can't even see the ground. In my example you could see where the top of the trees were in relate to the bottom of dome. You could even use this one instead (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-472/page010.html). Either one works, as they both show that the dome was about five to six times bigger then the surrounding trees as oppose to Gamabunta's height of two or three times the trees. Anyway, as we seen the sharks jump quite high off a surface and the dome would give them a higher jumping off point, they would be able to reach Naruto and Gamabunta jumping (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-135/page013.html). All they need is to jump high enough to grab Naruto. After that, Gamabunta doesn't matter any more. Presuming they miss, as Gamabunta has to come back down, all Kisame has to do is move the dome to where he'll land and try again.

I see no reason why the oil wouldn't stay there even if the oil is actually made out of chakra. Even if Kisame somehow have the ability to absorb the oil itself, that's still a pretty large volume of oil. And Naruto can certainly throw an explosive kunai faster than Kisame absorbing all the oil. The oil wouldn't stay because it's made out of chakra. We saw with a similar technique that the oil will be completely absorbed (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-377/page008.html). And considering Kisame was able to absorb a large volume of the Hachibi's chakra quite fast several times, I see no reason he couldn't absorb the chakra from Gamabunta just as quickly.

Gats

May 08, 2011, 04:39 AM

I don't understand why some people keep thinking that Naruto has to use FRS even if it has to fail, then justify that Kisame would win because he would suck the chakra from it. This is true, but Naruto DOESN'T have to use FRS every time he has to fight. Try do not think as "jutsu vs jutsu, face to face and let's see what happens", after everything Naruto has done until now (tricky move with powerful jutsu as a bait), that just doesn't work.
When I posted my thought, FRS wasn't an option at all as an offensive skill. Maybe as a tricky one, it depends how you use it.

Besides people should realize that Samehada just can't suck Naruto SM chakra not because it would turn into stone, but because it's not like a Bijuu cloak. The sage chakra itself is not leaking outside Naruto's body, so Samehada has to bite like it did with Bee when he didn't use his Bijuu cloak.

In the water dome, Shark Kisame can be turned against him. If he tries to immobilize Naruto and start to drain all his chakra, exactly as fat pain did, he is dead, Naruto would do the same thing.

Knowing this rule :

3. Knowledge
Characters will have no detailed information about the other characters in the tournament. Which means that all characters are unaware of other's techniques, abilities, fighting style and mindset. Widely known facts are however still known, like Hashirama is known for mokuton, Uchiha for Sharingan/MS etc, but no details and unknowns like Hidan's ritual and need of being in the circle to perform it.

There is no way Kisame knows about Nature energy. So the moment he'll grab Naruto (in the waterdome), and he'll do the same action as fat pain since he is unaware about the danger, he will turn into stone.

chilibun

May 08, 2011, 04:44 AM

Naruto takes this one. Naruto has a simple advantage with Sage Mode. If Samehada steals to much Nature Chakra from Naruto it's all over. As simple as that. Naruto has recently showed he can enter SM pretty quickly. Plus, he can change between Sage Mode and Rikudo Mode in a heartbeat...still, I go with Kisame turning into a frog.

No, eating properly molded sage chakra would not turn Samehada into stone. Only improperly molded sage chakra with imbalanced mixtures of natural energy turn things into stone, in which case, Naruto would turn into stone himself.

May 08, 2011, 04:55 AM

bhasty

May 08, 2011, 04:57 AM

No, eating properly molded sage chakra would not turn Samehada into stone. Only improperly molded sage chakra with imbalanced mixtures of natural energy turn things into stone, in which case, Naruto would turn into stone himself.

No.. too much senjutsu chakra will make the samehada a stone.. just like pa said that sage chakra is all about balance.. samehada has it's own chakra, so if it's going to absorb the sage chakra of naruto, a balance senjutsu chakra, addind to it's chakra then the sage chakra that was absorb by samehada will become imbalance..

May 08, 2011, 04:59 AM

No, eating properly molded sage chakra would not turn Samehada into stone. Only improperly molded sage chakra with imbalanced mixtures of natural energy turn things into stone, in which case, Naruto would turn into stone himself.

Not sure where you get that from. Sage chakra has to be maintained too even after it has been perfectly balanced, which is why Fat Pain turned into stone as Pain lacked the ability to do so. For someone like Naruto who has mastered the arts of Sage Mode and controlling natural energy that task is a no-brainer, but for someone that has never dealt with natural energy before they would turn into stone even if they got spoon-fed perfect Sage chakra.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v47/c435/3.html

You can see that Naruto's eyes got the Sage Mode markings of a "Perfect Sage" and then it got sucked out, meaning Fat Pain absorbed perfectly balanced Sage chakra and turned into a stone frog by doing so. The same thing would most likely happen to Samehada.

3shinkyo3

May 08, 2011, 06:08 AM

Im really not sure about this one as i was under the impression naruto needed prep time to enter sage mode i.e. needed his clones to remain still in order to gather it at frog mountain and then summon them to him??
Like many have said before kisame is the perfect opponent for chakra based power houses which naruto is. Plus once he fuses with his sword he becomes a rechargerable battery taking chakra when lands or takes a hit!
The only reason why i not vote for kisame is that if naruto can get into sage mode there is the possibility to use kisame's greatest strength into a weakness and turn him to stone.

hakuthehedgehog

May 08, 2011, 07:01 AM

Naruto went to sage mode in an instant against Pain and Iruka, so I don't think that will be a problem.

Also the water dome isn't that dangerous, a chou oodoma rasengan is said to be able to hollow out a mountain, if it blows up, the water dome would be destroyed.

mattiaildivino

May 08, 2011, 07:15 AM

Naruto's speed isn't as B's one.that time with a punch he damaged kisame.in a fight,naruto's mind would help him a lot! I wonder if Samehada would become stone if it absorbed naruto's sage chakra.anyway,Naruto would surely win.

kamakazi_1996

May 08, 2011, 08:13 AM

im giving this to naruto

his Rikudou Mode was fast enough to stop kisame dead in his tracks, he could easily do the same thing and end it with a rasen shuriken at close quarters

but i do admit kisame is a tough opponent but naruto will win this with difficulty

Kazu-Sama

May 08, 2011, 08:25 AM

Kisame. Naruto defaults to his strongest form hoping for a quick win, which is Kyuubi form. Kisame summons water dome, and starts absorbing. Naruto summons Gamabunta, Kisame summons sharks. Naruto goes for a Wind Release Rashushuriken, which gets absorbed by shark punch. Naruto is out.

To everybody saying that Naruto would win with Sage Mode, I don't think he'll get into sage mode. He'll go Kyuubi mode first, and try and win it then because of the speed and power it has over Sage. While in Kyuubi mode Naruto can't compete with Kisame. Game Over

THM Nindo

May 08, 2011, 09:05 AM

Strange to start with this fight, since it's probably one of the thoughest fight for Naruto.
Kisame is the perfect Jinchuriki hunter, and the more Naruto use his chakra, the stronger Kisame become.

Although, with the new Rikudo mode, Naruto is just too strong and Kisame would be probably forced to flee like he did when Naruto attacked him in the manga.

Really, the only jutsu that could put Naruto in trouble would be the big water sphere, but, fortunately, Naruto is also able to summon aquatic creatures. I guess he could summon Gamabunta and hide in his mouth to breath, or something like that.

In any case, a really though fight, but in the end, Naruto would most likely come victorious.

matsemann08

May 08, 2011, 09:35 AM

Some stats. I know stats don't control the outcome.

Stats from the latest (Third) databook - September 2008 (Remeber that this was right before the battle with Pain, and therefore means almost nothing now)
Naruto:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5346/naruto11s.png

Kisame:
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/1162/kisame11.png
Naruto's jutsus (current)

Sexy Technique
Shadow Clone Technique
Shadow Shuriken Technique
Rasengan
Oodama Rasengan
Tailed Beast Rasengan
Wind Release: Rasengan
Wind Release: Rasenshuriken
Sage Art: Great Ball Rasengan
Sage Art: Super Great Ball Rasen Tarengan (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Art:_Super_Great_Ball_Rasen_Tarengan)
Sage Art: Super Great Ball Rasengan
Sage Technique: Rasenrengan
Sage Mode
Combination Transformation (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Combination_Transformation)
Frog Kata
Summoning Technique (Toads)
Nine-Tailed Fox Sonic Roar (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Nine-Tailed_Fox_Sonic_Roar)
One Thousand Years of Death
Tailed Beast Chakra Arms (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tailed_Beast_Chakra_Arms)
Kisame's jutsus (current)

Earth Release: Underground Submarine Voyage (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Earth_Release:_Underground_Submarine_Voyage)
Summoning Technique (Shark)
Water Clone Technique
Water Prison Shark Dance Technique (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Prison_Shark_Dance_Technique)
Water Prison Technique
Water Release: A Thousand Feeding Sharks (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Release:_A_Thousand_Feeding_Sharks)
Water Release: Exploding Water Colliding Wave (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Release:_Exploding_Water_Colliding_Wave)
Water Release: Five Feeding Sharks (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Release:_Five_Feeding_Sharks)
Water Release: Great Exploding Water Colliding Wave (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Release:_Great_Exploding_Water_Colliding_Wave)
Water Release: Great Shark Bullet Technique (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Release:_Great_Shark_Bullet_Technique)
Water Release: Water Shark Bullet Technique (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Water_Release:_Water_Shark_Bullet_Technique)

Shaunlim

May 08, 2011, 09:48 AM

That's not a better view since you can't even see the ground. In my example you could see where the top of the trees were in relate to the bottom of dome. You could even use this one instead (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-472/page010.html). Either one works, as they both show that the dome was about five to six times bigger then the surrounding trees as oppose to Gamabunta's height of two or three times the trees. Anyway, as we seen the sharks jump quite high off a surface and the dome would give them a higher jumping off point, they would be able to reach Naruto and Gamabunta jumping (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-135/page013.html). All they need is to jump high enough to grab Naruto. After that, Gamabunta doesn't matter any more. Presuming they miss, as Gamabunta has to come back down, all Kisame has to do is move the dome to where he'll land and try again.

The oil wouldn't stay because it's made out of chakra. We saw with a similar technique that the oil will be completely absorbed (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-377/page008.html). And considering Kisame was able to absorb a large volume of the Hachibi's chakra quite fast several times, I see no reason he couldn't absorb the chakra from Gamabunta just as quickly.
In terms of the diameter maybe but in terms of height, Bunta is definitely bigger compared to the dome and no, the sharks can try all they want but no way are they ever going to reach Naruto who is on top of a jumping Bunta's head. Even if by some means they reach Bunta, he can easily deal with them with his sword or his water bullets.

That's Hungry Realm absorbing ninjutsu. Something that is known that he is capable of doing. Whereas Kisame have only shown to be able to absorb chakra. Granted it might be similar but certainly there's a difference between the both of them.

hakuthehedgehog

May 08, 2011, 10:27 AM

I haven't read the rules and I thought Naruto didn't have Rikudo mode.

So, Naruto wtfpwns easily by beating him into a bloody pulp.

chilibun

May 08, 2011, 10:33 AM

Not sure where you get that from. Sage chakra has to be maintained too even after it has been perfectly balanced, which is why Fat Pain turned into stone as Pain lacked the ability to do so. For someone like Naruto who has mastered the arts of Sage Mode and controlling natural energy that task is a no-brainer, but for someone that has never dealt with natural energy before they would turn into stone even if they got spoon-fed perfect Sage chakra.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v47/c435/3.html

You can see that Naruto's eyes got the Sage Mode markings of a "Perfect Sage" and then it got sucked out, meaning Fat Pain absorbed perfectly balanced Sage chakra and turned into a stone frog by doing so. The same thing would most likely happen to Samehada.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-415-15/naruto/chapter-410.html

Only sage chakra with too much natural energy turns you into a stone. When Fat Pain put Naruto into sage mode, Naruto continued to absorb more Natural energy which then got sucked up into Fat Pain. Note he specifically says: "Then energy of nature isn't that easy to handle." The sage eye markings also doesn't indicate "Perfect" sage mode. It just means he posses sage chakra. He always have them, even when he is turning into a frog:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v44/c412/8.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v44/c410/12.html

Come to think of it, its really is a combination of both, since absorbing even good sage chakra would throw your own chakra into imbalance, but you would have to absorb a lot of it to possess more natural energy than physical and spiritual energy, especially considering both Kisame and Samehada (I think) have high chakra pools.

xXan

May 08, 2011, 10:58 AM

http://www.mangareader.net/93-415-15/naruto/chapter-410.html

Only sage chakra with too much natural energy turns you into a stone. When Fat Pain put Naruto into sage mode, Naruto continued to absorb more Natural energy which then got sucked up into Fat Pain. Note he specifically says: "Then energy of nature isn't that easy to handle." The sage eye markings also doesn't indicate "Perfect" sage mode. It just means he posses sage chakra. He always have them, even when he is turning into a frog:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v44/c412/8.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v44/c410/12.html

Come to think of it, its really is a combination of both, since absorbing even good sage chakra would throw your own chakra into imbalance, but you would have to absorb a lot of it to possess more natural energy than physical and spiritual energy, especially considering both Kisame and Samehada (I think) have high chakra pools.

Kisame yes defenetly but there is no indication for Samehada so its going to turn close to instantly.

kkck

May 08, 2011, 11:01 AM

I guess it depends on how exactly the samehada would deal with sage chakra. Without a doubt the samehada can absorb every ounce of chakra naruto can throw but would it turn to stone if it absorbs enough sage chakra? Naruto's jinchuiriki form should have no more success than what B's had. In either form I have trouble seeing naruto winning against kisame underwater. FRS should be a good option but I don't think the samehada would fail to eat that too. I think I will go for kisame. The samehada already showed it can eat up a biju's chakra to a great extent and HM can be countered by the giant water sphere where kisame can simply wait for naruto to drown.

chilibun

May 08, 2011, 11:01 AM

Kisame yes defenetly but there is no indication for Samehada so its going to turn close to instantly.

Well, there is no indication that its weak either. Considering its been used to eat chakra all the time, I'm going to assume it has pretty decent chakra levels even if its not monstrous like Kisame.

xXan

May 08, 2011, 11:04 AM

Well, there is no indication that its weak either. Considering its been used to eat chakra all the time, I'm going to assume it has pretty decent chakra levels even if its not monstrous like Kisame.

You need to first prove it has decent chakra level before it has that. Also there is no indication that you need decenent chakra level to "eat"chakra. So again you need to prove that Samehada has some decent chakra level before it has that.

jorped

May 08, 2011, 11:12 AM

No need to even discuss this cuz we all know that Naruto would win !!!
Naruto sage mode may probably not put Naruto much stronger than Kisame but Kisame doesn't stand a chance against Naruto on Rikudo mode!

Any one here can even say that Kisame has a chance of beating Naruto on this mode ?

http://i12.mangareader.net/naruto/505/naruto-1459126.jpg

Come on Naruto did this to him when he still didn't had almost any control over this power , so imagine what he could do now ! One hit and Kisame is dead ! Naruto is more intelligent than most people think so how the hell would he loose when is skills and power is much greater than his opponent ?

Naruto wins clearly at least for me !

Rikudou King

May 08, 2011, 12:40 PM

I see Kisame's chakra absorbing abilities as a non-factor. It's troublesome but not something Naruto wouldn't get around. Naruto is highly unpredictable and creative with the few techniques he has, just look at what he did to Pain, a guy with awesome defensive techniques. It wouldn't become Daikoudan vs FRS, even if it did Naruto would use his tricky battle tactics to get around it, just like he did against Pain's Shinra Tensei. Kisame's chakra absorbing ability basically negates Naruto's preferred method of attacking. Without his ninjutsu, Naruto is stuck with his taijutsu which we know Kisame can atleast survive for a while. And Kisame's pretty tricky too. Add to that the fact that he can change the terrain to his advantage and his techniques are wide enough to eliminate whole groups of clones.

The water dome wouldn't do much either, Gamabunta is huge and would just jump out of it even if the dome is larger than him. As soon as Naruto is outside he would go into Rikudou Mode and easily speedblitz away from the dome, forcing Kisame to release it and go after him personally. That's presuming Naruto would even have time to summon Gamabunta. Kisame is incredibly fast underwater, he could reach Naruto before Naruto could summon Gamabunta. As for running away, Kisame was able to cross the Turtle Island in his water shark faster then an enhanced Gai could by jumping over it. Kisame shouldn't have any major problems keeping up with a Rikudou Naruto, especially since his time in that form is limited.

It's a tough match but ultimately I don't see Kisame winning this. Naruto's attacks are just too powerful, and combined with his trickery Kisame would be fooled eventually. We saw Bee harm Kisame through Samehada with a fatal attack, had Bee not been an idiot and attacked him right away before Samehada could heal him Kisame would be dead. In a tournament when both go for the win Naruto wouldn't stand around like that and instantly deliver the finishing blow. Naruto may be physically stronger, but Naruto has never hit someone hard enough to rip open their chest or a pressurized punch that created a huge shockwave, so Kisame would not have any less trouble surviving a hit from Naruto then he did with Kirabi and Gai. Worst comes to worst, Kisame can protect himself with a water prison. Aside from that, Naruto's gonna attempt to finish Kisame off with his ninjutsu in the beginning, which will greatly help Kisame and weaken Naruto in the long run. The more chakra Naruto uses, the less time he has to use his Rikudou form. And likewise, Kisame's not gonna be playing around either. He can trap Naruto in a water prison and have him ripped apart by sharks before Naruto gets clued in that Kisame can absorb his ninjutsu and clones. We have already seen that Naruto can fully move in the water prison.

In terms of the diameter maybe but in terms of height, Bunta is definitely bigger compared to the dome and no, the sharks can try all they want but no way are they ever going to reach Naruto who is on top of a jumping Bunta's head. Even if by some means they reach Bunta, he can easily deal with them with his sword or his water bullets. With Gamabunta the trees go up to his middle, with the dome the trees are about a fifth of the way up. Why wouldn't the sharks reach Naruto? Not only are they much faster in the water then them, but we have seen that they can travel outside the water with incredible speed. After all, Kisame used one as a shield and crossed the Turtle Island to the ocean in the time it took Gai to take two superpowered jumps to follow. Once they get on Gamabunta, they can grab Naruto. And Gamabunta would have a tough time dealing with them considering some can distract him while the others go for Naruto.

That's Hungry Realm absorbing ninjutsu. Something that is known that he is capable of doing. Whereas Kisame have only shown to be able to absorb chakra. Granted it might be similar but certainly there's a difference between the both of them. All ninjutsus are basically chakra changed or shaped in form, so the rules should be the same whether the chakra has been transformed into lightning or oil.

Come on Naruto did this to him when he still didn't had almost any control over this power , so imagine what he could do now ! One hit and Kisame is dead ! Naruto is more intelligent than most people think so how the hell would he loose when is skills and power is much greater than his opponent ? It would be far from a one hit kill. Kisame survived a blitz from Kirabi that tore his chest open (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-471/page013.html) and a high speed pressured punch from seventh gate Gai (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-507/page003.html). Naruto's physical attacks have never done as much damage as that. In fact, we know Kisame can survive a punch from Naruto in Rikudou form and still go on to fight.

May 08, 2011, 01:18 PM

Kisame's chakra absorbing ability basically negates Naruto's preferred method of attacking. Without his ninjutsu, Naruto is stuck with his taijutsu which we know Kisame can atleast survive for a while. And Kisame's pretty tricky too. Add to that the fact that he can change the terrain to his advantage and his techniques are wide enough to eliminate whole groups of clones.

Not convinced. "All ninjutsu has no effect" on Pain too, look what happened there. Through trickery and double/triple tactics Naruto got him time after time. Kisame isn't immune to tactics. Of course frontal ninjutsu is more or less useless against him but Samehada can only defend that much of his body. With tactics, good execution and speed it should be more than possible to get by Kisame's defense. If for example a FRS lands then Kisame is toast. I'm not going to believe for a second that Samehada can absorb all of this if it first gets unleashed on Kisame's rear/back (http://www.mangareader.net/93-437-6/naruto/chapter-432.html). Really, Kisame is a tough opponent but Naruto is not an idiot nor useless in this fight.

That's presuming Naruto would even have time to summon Gamabunta. Kisame is incredibly fast underwater, he could reach Naruto before Naruto could summon Gamabunta. As for running away, Kisame was able to cross the Turtle Island in his water shark faster then an enhanced Gai could by jumping over it. Kisame shouldn't have any major problems keeping up with a Rikudou Naruto, especially since his time in that form is limited.

Why wouldn't he? Bee had time to start swimming away and mess around in the dome, to me it looks like Naruto has more than enough time to make a few hand seals and summon Bunta. Besides it's not like a hit from Kisame would kill Naruto in the first place. Summoning doesn't take long, it should be easy to get it over. Once Bunta is out he'll just burst out of the dome, it's not that incredibly large. And yes Kisame is fast when traveling outside of water but I'd like to see him outrun a giant frog who's legs are made to make incredbly large leaps in every jump. Bunta would jump over mountains in a split second.

Naruto may be physically stronger, but Naruto has never hit someone hard enough to rip open their chest or a pressurized punch that created a huge shockwave, so Kisame would not have any less trouble surviving a hit from Naruto then he did with Kirabi and Gai. Worst comes to worst, Kisame can protect himself with a water prison. And likewise, Kisame's not gonna be playing around either. He can trap Naruto in a water prison and have him ripped apart by sharks before Naruto gets clued in that Kisame can absorb his ninjutsu and clones. We have already seen that Naruto can fully move in the water prison.

He wouldn't need to do a 1 hit K.O if that's what you want. Bee got Kisame through Samehada (http://www.mangareader.net/93-39730-12/naruto/chapter-471.html), had Bee attacked right away Kisame would have had no time to get healed back up. All Naruto has to do is land a hit on him once and then go after him before Samehada crawls over and heals him, that's assuming he even survives getting split in half by an expanding and detonating FRS. The water prison technique is something I really doubt would be able to hold Naruto inside of it, all he should need to do is go into Rikudou Mode and release enough raw energy/power and the prison would pop.

jorped

May 08, 2011, 01:32 PM

Naruto defeated Pain ! For me Pain will be until now the strongest opponent and i will use it to explain why i think that Naruto is going to be the winner.
What was one of the things that made Pain that strong?
I mean despite his strength , which was just to damm awesome, Pain were just so damm mysterious and that worked very well for their side !To defeat them it would be needed to be very strong and at the same time very smart! Naruto only managed to defeat Pain because he is indeed someone that is smart and that we can rely on in situations like this !
This fight against Kisame is for me almost the same ! I can even say that it would be alot easier than on the time Naruto fought against Pain ! Naruto is clearly much stronger cuz now he has on his arsenal the bijuu dama and the awesome rikudo mode ! And i think that Kisame is not as mysterious as Pain , so why would Kisame win?

xXan

May 08, 2011, 01:35 PM

Naruto defeated Pain ! For me Pain will be until now the strongest opponent and i will use it to explain why i think that Naruto is going to be the winner.
What was one of the things that made Pain that strong?
I mean despite his strength , which was just to damm awesome the Pains were so damm mysterious and that worked very well for their side !To defeat them it would be needed to be very strong and at the time very smart! Naruto only managed to defeat Pain because he is indeed someone that is smart and that we can rely on in situations like this !
This fight against Kisame is for me almost the same ! I would even say that it is easier than on the time Naruto fought against Pain ! Naruto is clearly much stronger cuz now he has on his arsenal the bijuu dama and the awesome rikudo mode ! And i think that Kisame is not as mysterious as Pain , so why would Kisame win?

Naruto never defeated Pein. JMan+Konoha(the entire village) ninjas+lots of frogs including the elder ones+prep time+Nagato not wanting to kill him+Deva on cooldown from busting a city. Under normal circumstances Pein would completly own Naruto(the one before kyuubi mastering).

jorped

May 08, 2011, 01:40 PM

Naruto never defeated Pein. JMan+Konoha(the entire village) ninjas+lots of frogs including the elder ones+prep time+Nagato not wanting to kill him+Deva on cooldown from busting a city. Under normal circumstances Pein would completly own Naruto(the one before kyuubi mastering).

That's true but that doesn't really change and make the point that i was trying to get to wrong !
Kisame is not as powerful and mysterious as Pain and Naruto has now Rikudo Mode and bijuu dama so Kisame doesn't stand a chance !

xXan

May 08, 2011, 01:41 PM

That's true but that doesn't really change and make the point that i was trying to get to wrong !
Kisame is not as powerful and mysterious as Pain and Naruto has now Rikudo Mode and bijuu dama so Kisame doesn't stand a chance !

Actualy he does stand a chanse but Naruto would win here more then not. This is defenetly not going to be a easy fight.

Raizen

May 08, 2011, 01:57 PM

Naruto!

His speed in Rikudo mode will allow him to get kisame. Naruto also isn't a fighter that relies on heavy chakra attacks. His use of Kbs will allow him to beat kisame either in taijutsu or ninjutsu

ninjabot

May 08, 2011, 02:06 PM

You know, Kisame doesn't have to absorb any of Naruto's chakra with Samehada to win. Naruto doesn't have any realistic counter for Daikoudan if he's in the middle of a jutsu like Rasengan or throwing an FRS (whether there's water out already or not). Daikoudan absorbs chakra to grow, meaning whether water is out there or not, if it clashes with a jutsu, it'll become powerful enough to get the job done.

Why wouldn't he? Bee had time to start swimming away and mess around in the dome, to me it looks like Naruto has more than enough time to make a few hand seals and summon Bunta. Besides it's not like a hit from Kisame would kill Naruto in the first place. Summoning doesn't take long, it should be easy to get it over. Once Bunta is out he'll just burst out of the dome, it's not that incredibly large. And yes Kisame is fast when traveling outside of water but I'd like to see him outrun a giant frog who's legs are made to make incredbly large leaps in every jump. Bunta would jump over mountains in a split second.

Because Naruto is remedial at Kuchiyose no jutsu thanks to his horrible chakra control. The odds of him correctly summoning the right toad at any given time aren't good unless the Kyuubi deems it necessary (just like every time he's attempted a summoning). He'd be shark food by the time he got a toad out.

May 08, 2011, 02:11 PM

Because Naruto is remedial at Kuchiyose no jutsu thanks to his horrible chakra control. The odds of him correctly summoning the right toad at any given time aren't good unless the Kyuubi deems it necessary (just like every time he's attempted a summoning). He'd be shark food by the time he got a toad out.

It's all about the quantity of chakra. Besides I doubt Naruto would even need Kyuubi's chakra at this point, he's the largest chakra beast out there. But let's assume he does need it, nothing would change. He would just use it via Rikudou Mode to get the right quantity and it's a safe deal. I'm not going to buy a story of Naruto not being able to do a summon at this point, I've seen the argument tons of times so it's not something I will even bother to go in depth in. Large quantity = Bunta, Naruto has large quantity both with and without Kyuubi's chakra = no problem.

ninjabot

May 08, 2011, 02:17 PM

Raizen

May 08, 2011, 02:21 PM

He was also relatively new to controlling his massive chakra. His chakra control was nothing compared to now. Yet he was still able to summon bunta on 2 occasions

May 08, 2011, 02:22 PM

Except Naruto always had a massive chakra reserve even without the Kyuubi's aid. If the amount of chakra was all that mattered then he could've squeezed a Gamabunta out from the point he first started training (unless you believe having more chakra than Kakashi still wasn't enough to summon a boss-level summon).

There's no passable argument for Naruto being able to summon, so I'm not humoring that.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-97-13/naruto/chapter-92.html

"It requires more than your normal amount of chakra". Yes Naruto was always a chakra beast but he was still just a kid, he was a beast for his age in part 1. Since Jiraiya has no extra source of chakra and is able to summon Gamabunta just fine the "It requires more than your normal amount of chakra" obviously doesn't apply to him and thus he had more chakra than Naruto had back in part 1, that's obviously not the case in part 2. Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya in chakra capacity and has way more chakra than in part 1 = easy summon of Bunta. In part 1 Naruto had a 4 in stamina, now he has a 5 and that's only because the ratings stop at 5. But if you want to treat Naruto as not being able to even summon Bunta then by all means, +1 for your side. I on the other hand am not buying that argument and I've already voted for Naruto.

Rikudou King

May 08, 2011, 02:41 PM

Not convinced. "All ninjutsu has no effect" on Pain too, look what happened there. Through trickery and double/triple tactics Naruto got him time after time. Kisame isn't immune to tactics. Of course frontal ninjutsu is more or less useless against him but Samehada can only defend that much of his body. With tactics, good execution and speed it should be more than possible to get by Kisame's defense. If for example a FRS lands then Kisame is toast. I'm not going to believe for a second that Samehada can absorb all of this if it first gets unleashed on Kisame's rear/back (http://www.mangareader.net/93-437-6/naruto/chapter-432.html). Really, Kisame is a tough opponent but Naruto is not an idiot nor useless in this fight. Naruto was told which Path could negate ninjutsu, so Naruto went for taijutsu instead. Naruto's not gonna know that Kisame can absorb his chakra at the start, so he's not gonna be planning for it meaning Kisame's gonna get plenty of chakra from him off the bat. Aside from the fact that Samehada can move itself if it wanted to block the FRS from behind, don't forget that Kisame himself can absorb chakra too. He could very well negate the FRS long enough for Samehada to jump in. With the ability to wipe out all of Naruto's ninjutsus and clones, along with plenty of durability to take a couple of hits and an ability to heal that rivals Naruto's own, Kisame would have no problem with Naruto even if he's trick a few times.

Why wouldn't he? Bee had time to start swimming away and mess around in the dome, to me it looks like Naruto has more than enough time to make a few hand seals and summon Bunta. Besides it's not like a hit from Kisame would kill Naruto in the first place. Summoning doesn't take long, it should be easy to get it over. Once Bunta is out he'll just burst out of the dome, it's not that incredibly large. And yes Kisame is fast when traveling outside of water but I'd like to see him outrun a giant frog who's legs are made to make incredbly large leaps in every jump. Bunta would jump over mountains in a split second. Different situation. Not only did Kirabi have a form that allowed him to swim fast and breathe underwater, Kisame wasn't seriously trying to kill Kirabi. Here, Naruto wouldn't be able to swim that fast and Kisame has no reason not to go for the kill straight away. A hit from Kisame may not kill Naruto, but being stabbed would still do a number on him. Not to mention with Kisame next to him, he couldn't spread his chakra to summon Gamabunta. We've seen Gamabunta jump. While far, it wasn't that far. Kisame went from the middle? of the Island Turtle to the edge and had already summoned his shark by the time Gai could get there with Kirabi throwing him and two enhanced jumps. I honestly don't see why Kisame wouldn't be able to beat Gamabunta went neither he nor any of the other toads showed that kind of jumping power. At the very least they would arrive at the same time.

He wouldn't need to do a 1 hit K.O if that's what you want. Bee got Kisame through Samehada (http://www.mangareader.net/93-39730-12/naruto/chapter-471.html), had Bee attacked right away Kisame would have had no time to get healed back up. All Naruto has to do is land a hit on him once and then go after him before Samehada crawls over and heals him, that's assuming he even survives getting split in half by an expanding and detonating FRS. The water prison technique is something I really doubt would be able to hold Naruto inside of it, all he should need to do is go into Rikudou Mode and release enough raw energy/power and the prison would pop. The thing is, what's to say Naruto would be able to do that much physical damage to take Kisame down and force him to heal? Apart from Gai's pressurized punch, we saw Kisame take a hit from Naruto in Rikudou form along with a kick from Gai without taking major damage to stop him. If Kisame does get injured that badly, all he needs to do is hide inside his water prison here Naruto can't reach him. We already saw that the water prison can hold Naruto and if Kisame is standing next to it, he can absorb Naruto's chakar as he releases it. Not to mention Naruto can't simply go into Rikudou form to release chakra. His time in that form is already limited, and if he used enough chakra before hand, then going into Rikudou form would end up killing him.

kakashidad

May 08, 2011, 03:14 PM

shuha27

May 08, 2011, 03:20 PM

Ahh come on now mods lol.Are the rules totally dashed out of the window now?I thought naruto could not use ''kybuui mode''...i'm not too fussed as i voted for him staight off the bat in my fanboy mode lol.

Lets have some mods following the rules...in fact let me look at them again..they may have been updated:D

Make sure you go to the Naruto Tournament's rules and info to see what is restricted or limited.

Naruto can use his Kyubbi Mode. Even without that mode he still wins because his Sage Mode :)

Gats

May 08, 2011, 03:21 PM

Ahh come on now mods lol.Are the rules totally dashed out of the window now?I thought naruto could not use ''kybuui mode''...i'm not too fussed as i voted for him staight off the bat in my fanboy mode lol.

Lets have some mods following the rules...in fact let me look at them again..they may have been updated:D

Why did you quote me ? I don't see any link between your point and mine.

I don't see anything in the rules that forbid Naruto to use "Kyuubi Mode" unless you're thinking about something very specific.

Dapreachor

May 08, 2011, 03:27 PM

jdw

May 08, 2011, 03:31 PM

Naruto was told which Path could negate ninjutsu, so Naruto went for taijutsu instead. Naruto's not gonna know that Kisame can absorb his chakra at the start, so he's not gonna be planning for it meaning Kisame's gonna get plenty of chakra from him off the bat. Aside from the fact that Samehada can move itself if it wanted to block the FRS from behind, don't forget that Kisame himself can absorb chakra too. He could very well negate the FRS long enough for Samehada to jump in. With the ability to wipe out all of Naruto's ninjutsus and clones, along with plenty of durability to take a couple of hits and an ability to heal that rivals Naruto's own, Kisame would have no problem with Naruto even if he's trick a few times.

Wasn't Naruto standing there when Kisame absorbed his Kyuubi chakra in Part I. Kisame even said it (http://www.mangareader.net/93-151-18/naruto/chapter-146.html). He is going to at least remember being chakra raped by the dude and his sword. Naruto will approach with care.

shuha27

May 08, 2011, 03:32 PM

I would like to clarify that since when has it been given as a law that because someone can absorb chakra that they can negate a jutsu as destructive as rasen shuriken.

Ghost pain could absorb all jutsu's, and the only other being to withstand it is the nine tailed fox - within naruto's own mind which is not the same reality as the outside ninja world.

So I'd like to know why some people think that Kisame's sword could somehow withstand cellular level attacks from a huge mass of chakra that attacks on both the micro and macro scale. ?

Samehada absorbs anything that utilizes chakra. Rasenshurkien even though it is devastating it is still made of chakra. We already seen Samehada absorb Killer Bee's jinchuriki transformation and his lightning infused attacks. IMO, Samehada will be able to absorb Rasenshuriken.

Rikudou King

May 08, 2011, 03:41 PM

jdw

May 08, 2011, 03:44 PM

Dapreachor

May 08, 2011, 03:44 PM

you mean when he shaved the cloak, and absorbed a lightning enhanced pencil ? Ok he can absorb a cloak but are you really comparing a pencil to rasen shuriken ?

Gats

May 08, 2011, 03:49 PM

Wasn't Naruto standing there when Kisame absorbed his Kyuubi chakra in Part I. Kisame even said it (http://www.mangareader.net/93-151-18/naruto/chapter-146.html). He is going to at least remember being chakra raped by the dude and his sword. Naruto will approach with care.

This is what I thought too but with the rule states :

3. Knowledge
Characters will have no detailed information about the other characters in the tournament. Which means that all characters are unaware of other's techniques, abilities, fighting style and mindset. Widely known facts are however still known, like Hashirama is known for mokuton, Uchiha for Sharingan/MS etc, but no details and unknowns like Hidan's ritual and need of being in the circle to perform it.

But I'm still wondering about Naruto's case, and I'm wondering if Samehada's power, since the 7 swordmen are famous, can be categorized as "widely known facts". I also remember that during the Kage's meeting, the young hidden mist swordman explained the true danger of Kisame, but it seems that the kage already knew that...so is it considered as widely known fact ?
http://www.mangareader.net/93-35990-10/naruto/chapter-468.html

shuha27

May 08, 2011, 03:49 PM

you mean when he shaved the cloak, and absorbed a lightning enhanced pencil ? Ok he can absorb a cloak but are you really comparing a pencil to rasen shuriken ?

Ok you have a point there but I still think Samehada will be able to absorb rasenshuriken. Rasenshuriken is still made out of chakra, so I still think Samehada would be able to absorb it. Either way, Naruto wins this.

Rikudou King

May 08, 2011, 03:59 PM

To lessen the threat to himself, I suspect he would try to disarm Kisame, considering that he knows for sure the sword can absorb massive amounts of chakra. If he disarms Kisame, it's all downhill for Kisame from there. Also, Naruto could gain great amount of knowledge from his KB's attacks without putting himself in harms way. Disarming Kisame would be considerably hard considering the fact that Samehada can extend it's tail and warp around Kisame's arm, not to mention move on it's own when separated. But that still doesn't change the fact that Kisame himself can absorb chakra, thus it would basically be the same situation by himself. And using clones would only mean he's giving Kisame more chakra and lessening the mount of time he could spend in Rikudou form.

This is what I thought too but with the rule states :

But I'm still wondering about Naruto's case, and I'm wondering if Samehada's power, since the 7 swordmen are famous, can be categorized as "widely known facts". I also remember that during the Kage's meeting, the young hidden mist swordman explained the true danger of Kisame, but it seems that the kage already knew that...so is it considered as widely known fact ?
http://www.mangareader.net/93-35990-10/naruto/chapter-468.html Good point. It can't be too widely know considering Asuma apparently didn't know about it.

jdw

May 08, 2011, 04:03 PM

This is what I thought too but with the rule states :

But I'm still wondering about Naruto's case, and I'm wondering if Samehada's power, since the 7 swordmen are famous, can be categorized as "widely known facts". I also remember that during the Kage's meeting, the young hidden mist swordman explained the true danger of Kisame, but it seems that the kage already knew that...so is it considered as widely known fact ?
http://www.mangareader.net/93-35990-10/naruto/chapter-468.html

So we are wiping out Naruto's actual memories? I can understand no assumptions about either party getting free intel, but WTF?
[hr]
@Rikudou king: kisanme has been disarmed of samehada almost every time we have seen him. It doesn't appear all that hard.

kakashidad

May 08, 2011, 04:10 PM

Why did you quote me ? I don't see any link between your point and mine.

I don't see anything in the rules that forbid Naruto to use "Kyuubi Mode" unless you're thinking about something very specific.

Sorry one too many beers...my bad,that's twice tonight i've had to say sorry to a mod..you and Rikidou king.I'll read the rules better:darn

hakuthehedgehog

May 08, 2011, 04:13 PM

I doubt Kisame can suck chakra as rapidly as Samehada, otherwise he wouldn't have been harmed by the raiton pencil.

Also, Naruto is not stupid, he would first use KB to learn Kisame's abilities, and then attack directly, like he did against Kakuzu.

Gats

May 08, 2011, 04:13 PM

So we are wiping out Naruto's actual memories? I can understand no assumptions about either party getting free intel, but WTF?
<hr noshade size="1">
@Rikudou king: kisanme has been disarmed of samehada almost every time we have seen him. It doesn't appear all that hard.

Words by words yes. This should mean that Naruto's memory would be wiped. :tem
But in the other hand I doubt we thought about this kind of situation (Naruto's personal memories), or I just don't remember. I'll check in my side to confirm or not.

@Rikudou king : Well Asuma didn't know that Samehada doesn't cut, it doesn't mean he didn't know for its main ability. I doubt very much that the weapon was famous because it doesn't cut but lacerates...which is rather a weakness taking it alone. Besides remember that since Akatsuki is well known now (which was not the case when Asuma fought Kisame), more intel has been shared between village about their specific rogue ninja in this organization.

kakashidad

May 08, 2011, 04:27 PM

Words by words yes. This should mean that Naruto's memory would be wiped. :tem
But in the other hand I doubt we thought about this kind of situation (Naruto's personal memories), or I just don't remember. I'll check in my side to confirm or not.

@Rikudou king : Well Asuma didn't know that Samehada doesn't cut, it doesn't mean he didn't know for its main ability. I doubt very much that the weapon was famous because it doesn't cut but lacerates...which is rather a weakness taking it alone.

So it's not only naruto memories but literally everyones?That sucks big time..

I didn't confirm yet. ~Gatsuga

Gats

May 08, 2011, 04:59 PM

Even if it's a valid point for me, all posts about general point from the rules will be discussed there (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2433984#post2433984).

KiSwordsman

May 08, 2011, 05:07 PM

Raizen

May 08, 2011, 05:13 PM

Even if naruto has no knowledge of kisame, same applies for kisame.

Look at how naruto's speed pwned kisame. He won't know what hit him. He also won't know that naruto is a jinjuuriki with massive chakra.

I also want to point out that the 6-tails chakra of hachibi does NOT equal the 6-tails chakra of 9-tails. So while samehada may be able to absorb 6 tails of hachibi, how much it could absorb 9tails is questionable seeing as how the 9tails is much more powerful than the other bijuus and also because the chakra of the 9tails burn its users

Gats

May 08, 2011, 05:23 PM

jorped

May 08, 2011, 05:35 PM

I confirm the fact that Naruto doesn't know about Samehada powers for this tournament. As the rule states, no one know their opponent, in order to prevent advantageous circumstances for one side in fights.

Nothing that his awesome Rikudo Mode and even Sage Mode can't figure out :tem
People tend to forget that he detected Kisame when anyone else had failed and didn't notice ! :oh
So do you guys think that Kisame powers would be mysterious for much time?

kkck

May 08, 2011, 05:41 PM

^Naruto's jinchuiriki form will still get absorbed by the samehada. He can't even advance his form to the part where he becomes a mini biju like B did..... I don't think we have any reason to believe naruto will win using that shape. Sage mode would be trickier but there is still a chance samehada will eat it up. Naruto is adequate at tricks but for the most part even for that he relies on his gargantuan amounts of chakra. The problem is that kisame is by no means an idiot so the longer the fight lasts the more problems naruto is in. Heck, as long as naruto does not decapitate or obliterated kisame he won't win at all as every bit of chakra kisame gets can be used to heal him. Kisame seems like too much of a counter for naruto IMO.

Rikudou King

May 08, 2011, 05:54 PM

kisanme has been disarmed of samehada almost every time we have seen him. It doesn't appear all that hard. If Samehada was a normal sword, then you would have a point. But as we have seen those times Samehada was taken from Kisame, it can return on it's own quite fast, by extending it's tail or "walking" back to him. Naruto pretty much has no way of keeping Samehada from Kisame or preventing Kisame from taking it back, so disarming him would be a considerable challenge.

LnDRash

May 08, 2011, 06:40 PM

Naruto can punch Kisame all he wants. Whenever he comes close Samehada will just suck out a massive amount of chakra and Kisame will heal himself, so Naruto will get tired while Kisame will grow stronger the longer the fight drags out.

Someone also said that there's nothing which indicates Samehada having a great chakra pool: I disagree.

When Kisame was hiding inside Samehada none could detect him because he and Samehada have the same chakra. So the sword needs to have a huge chakra pool too otherwese everyone would be wondering why this thing just had such an enormous chakra boost.

DarkPrinceRevan

May 08, 2011, 08:44 PM

DEATHBOTT

May 08, 2011, 08:54 PM

Delbi

May 08, 2011, 09:11 PM

Tough fight. If Kisame can fuse and create the water prison he wins. If Naruto sepearte Samehada from Kisame, Naruto wins.

FRS isn't going to do anything since Kisame can lauch that giant shark missle thing at it and it'll be eaten up.

Saying that, Sage Mode or Rikudou Mode should afford Naruto the strength and speed to rob Kisame of Samehada. Sage Mode would be better thanks to the unknown absorbtion of Sage Energy by Samehada and it's extended reach.

DarkPrinceRevan

May 08, 2011, 09:15 PM

this isn't the manga where fights are dictated by the plot. naruto doesnt have to stand around looking dumb like bee did when kisame is healing himself. he can just kick samehada away like kisame did to bee when it was healing him instead.

also something i was thinking about is that samehada doesnt automatically absorb chakra as bee threw a lightning pencil at kisame and it didn't lose it's charge when it got close.

your right samehada has to physically touch the body, a jutsu or in bee's case his chakra shroud to absorb it.

and naruto aint no slouch in underwater conditions when using the kyuubi's chakra http://www.mangareader.net/93-234-6/naruto/chapter-229.html

Rikudou King

May 08, 2011, 09:17 PM

even without knowin upfront kisames sword has absorbing capabilited he can still figure it out by simply sending a few clones to judge kisames abilities and adjust his strategy from there like he did kazuza (whatever his name is with the five hearts). Doing that's a double edge. Every clone that Naruto uses would grant Kisame more chakra.

this isn't the manga where fights are dictated by the plot. naruto doesnt have to stand around looking dumb like bee did when kisame is healing himself. he can just kick samehada away like kisame did to bee when it was healing him instead.

also something i was thinking about is that samehada doesnt automatically absorb chakra as bee threw a lightning pencil at kisame and it didn't lose it's charge when it got close. Aside from Naruto having to figure out the situation with Samehada first, kicking Samehada away won't stop it from coming back (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-473/page003.html).

As for the pencil, that was probably because Samehada wasn't anywhere near the pencil. There's a certain range Samehada has to be to absorb the chakra from what we have seen.

MonsterEnvy

May 08, 2011, 09:24 PM

I wish i had control over the voting because Kisame will kick Naruto's ass when he goes into kyuubi mode and he will go into Kyuubi mode before Sage mode

kkck

May 08, 2011, 09:36 PM

DarkPrinceRevan

May 08, 2011, 09:36 PM

Doing that's a double edge. Every clone that Naruto uses would grant Kisame more chakra.

Aside from Naruto having to figure out the situation with Samehada first, kicking Samehada away won't stop it from coming back (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-473/page003.html).

As for the pencil, that was probably because Samehada wasn't anywhere near the pencil. There's a certain range Samehada has to be to absorb the chakra from what we have seen.

the risk is there regardless, he gets tactical information regarding the abortion while kisame gets a small boost from a disposable clone. its not like he'll be swiping a chakra shroud away like he did bee. and if kisame leaves himself open to attack while hes absorbing then its well worth it.

a considering naruto's strength in sage mode a punt from him or a really good throw would send it well out of range to do kisame any good

kkck

May 08, 2011, 09:46 PM

Kisame can afford to leave himself open though. His sword can use the very chakra it takes from naruto to heal kisame instantly.

Calisto

May 08, 2011, 09:48 PM

How does Naruto lose without any restrictions lol?

MonsterEnvy

May 08, 2011, 09:49 PM

he ca't use clones with rikudo mode

jorped

May 08, 2011, 10:18 PM

Naruto has no chance of taking the samehada from kisame. As other said, it has a mind of its own and will own his own go back to kisame. On top of that if naruto touches the sword it will definitely drain his chakra.

No chance of taking samehada from Kisame , really ?
Although i think that Naruto would never get to this point and that this battle would end on his victory pretty fast i think that Samehada would never allow Kisame to kill Naruto ! It is going to be exactly the same that happened when Kisame fought Bee !! Naruto chakra is definitely very "tasty" so Samehada at some point would turn to Naruto side !
Naruto wouldn't need anything like this cuz now he has the awesome rikudo mode ! We still haven't see all of the skills that that mode provides to hi, , but when we do ...... :zomg

Naruto wins this fight obviously :yelling

chilibun

May 08, 2011, 10:47 PM

No chance of taking samehada from Kisame , really ?
Although i think that Naruto would never get to this point and that this battle would end on his victory pretty fast i think that Samehada would never allow Kisame to kill Naruto ! It is going to be exactly the same that happened when Kisame fought Bee !! Naruto chakra is definitely very "tasty" so Samehada at some point would turn to Naruto side !
Naruto wouldn't need anything like this cuz now he has the awesome rikudo mode ! We still haven't see all of the skills that that mode provides to hi, , but when we do ...... :zomg

Naruto wins this fight obviously :yelling

Samehada backstabbing Kisame was all a trick to spy on the Jinchurikis and the Alliance. Even though Samehada is reluctant, it had no problem eating Bee's chakra again on Turtle Island.

Rikudou mode is easily the worst thing Naruto can do in this battle. Samehada will easily eat its chakra like it ate Bee's. He's much better off using Sage mode as that chakra stays inside Naruto's body instead of projecting a chakra shroud.

bhasty

May 08, 2011, 10:48 PM

Does kisame can absorb even the rasenshuriken..? I thought kisame/samehada can only absorb his oponents chakra.. does he have the ability to absorb any kinds of techniques that based from chakra just like fat pain or a senjutsu chakra.?

Does Absorbing oponents chakra is the same as absorbing oponents technique/s?..

Kisame can absorb naruto's kyubi mode chakra, but i think kisame can't absorb naruto's RS technique.. The manga never shown that kisame can absorb any kinds of technique/s. He absorb bee's pencil with lightning simply because bee was just fusing his pencil with his lightning chakra..

Even if kisame can create a water dome prison, naruto can escape using his KM, he can used his extra hand to grab anything from outside to pull him out of the water prison.. and throw his RS to the water dome to create a whirlpool or he will just summon bunta to make a bigger fire technique to evaporate the water dome or he can used his extra hand to throw as many rocks/tree as he can on kisame who's in his water dome..

M3J

May 09, 2011, 12:05 AM

Shaunlim

May 09, 2011, 12:16 AM

All ninjutsus are basically chakra changed or shaped in form, so the rules should be the same whether the chakra has been transformed into lightning or oil.
Naruto knows about Samehada absorbing chakra, but not Kisame himself. Naruto won't be excepting his Rasengan to the back to be absorbed by Kisame directly.

Because ninjutsu have to ability to actually hurt Kisame or Samehada. Unlike Hungry Realm who actually forms a barrier of sort around him, Kisame and Samehada actually needs to be in contact with the chakra to absorb it.

xXan

May 09, 2011, 01:03 AM

chilibun

May 09, 2011, 01:37 AM

I will tell you how this ends in 2 seconds flat. Naruto goes Rikudo mode, creates a rasengan and then charges in Kisame's direction like Bee and aim for the head. BAM Kisame's head is no more. Samehada will get a portion of his chakra but at this point its irrelevant as Kisame's head its already rolling on the floor. Heal that!

Hell even better, Naruto goes RM and creates a FRS(h2h version) and blasts at blur speed Kisame's chest living a hole where his chest was.

Naruto has more then 1 option to end this fight before Kisame can drain Naruto.

Hell you can add to this the part where Naruto smashed Kisame inside Samehada faster then Samehada could drain Naruto.

Now considering Naruto in RM is faster then Bee the chakra Samehada can drain will be lower then in Bee's case.

RM Naruto has yet to shown the ability to perform any jutsu. "You need to first prove he can do it before he has that." Serve, returned. lol.

RM Naruto is fast, but Kisame wasn't exactly engaging Naruto in combat. He was half-merged with Samehada, sputtering for the door and got caught off guard by a surprisingly speedy Naruto. Dude didn't even have legs at the time. Kisame was still able to eat that punch and get away (though due to a plot device). A straight up face to face Kisame would have faired better than that.

Rikudou King

May 09, 2011, 01:42 AM

the risk is there regardless, he gets tactical information regarding the abortion while kisame gets a small boost from a disposable clone. its not like he'll be swiping a chakra shroud away like he did bee. and if kisame leaves himself open to attack while hes absorbing then its well worth it.

a considering naruto's strength in sage mode a punt from him or a really good throw would send it well out of range to do kisame any good The risk here would be greater then normal. Considering Naruto's chakra is divided proportionally, if he was to make three clones and Kisame absorbed two, Kisame would have just taken half of Naruto's total chakra. With no Kyuubi to refill his chakra pool and Rikudou form becoming more dangerous the less chakra Naruto has, Naruto can't afford to waste chakra like that. And with Kisame's durability and Samehada's ability, he can afford to leave himself open.

But kicking it still won't keep Samehada away. And it's not like Kisame can't fight a little while without it.

Because ninjutsu have to ability to actually hurt Kisame or Samehada. Unlike Hungry Realm who actually forms a barrier of sort around him, Kisame and Samehada actually needs to be in contact with the chakra to absorb it. The ninjutsu won't hurt Kisame or Samehada if they absorb the chakra as the technique hits. The moment it touches would be the moment they begin to absorb it. And Samehada has shown that it can absorb chakra even if it's not in direct contact with it. The ninjutsu would only have to come within a few inches before it would be absorbed.

I will tell you how this ends in 2 seconds flat. Naruto goes Rikudo mode, creates a rasengan and then charges in Kisame's direction like Bee and aim for the head. BAM Kisame's head is no more. Samehada will get a portion of his chakra but at this point its irrelevant as Kisame's head its already rolling on the floor. Heal that!

Hell even better, Naruto goes RM and creates a FRS(h2h version) and blasts at blur speed Kisame's chest living a hole where his chest was.

Naruto has more then 1 option to end this fight before Kisame can drain Naruto.

Hell you can add to this the part where Naruto smashed Kisame inside Samehada faster then Samehada could drain Naruto.

Now considering Naruto in RM is faster then Bee the chakra Samehada can drain will be lower then in Bee's case. Except that Samehada was shown able to absorb a huge amount of chakra in a moment, so it would negate the Chou Rasengan before it could touch Kisame's head. It absorbed four tails worth of chakra from Kirabi before he could headbutt Kisame from a few feet away. Heck, Kisame was able to take a massive pressurized punch from seventh gate Gai on his own and was still able to move. And considering Kisame was still able to fight after being punched by Rikudou Naruto and kicked by Gai, Naruto doesn't have anything to finish Kisame right off.

xXan

May 09, 2011, 01:59 AM

RM Naruto has yet to shown the ability to perform any jutsu. "You need to first prove he can do it before he has that." Serve, returned. lol.

RM Naruto is fast, but Kisame wasn't exactly engaging Naruto in combat. He was half-merged with Samehada, sputtering for the door and got caught off guard by a surprisingly speedy Naruto. Dude didn't even have legs at the time. Kisame was still able to eat that punch and get away (though due to a plot device). A straight up face to face Kisame would have faired better than that.

You are right about the rasengan, forgot about the fact that the chakra he would be using would be the Kyuubi's and he never showed to be able to do that, considering he never showed to be able to summon only his normal chakra to create a normal rasengan i will drop the rasengan part... But he can do jutsus, he can do clones but that would probably kill him and he already showed the posibility to do shunshin no jutsu. He can also summon stuff (this is 100% sure).

As for the second part. Bee was more then able to smash him down and he is slower then Naruto(and he has way less chakra). So even in a real fight i don't see him doing any better. Naruto would just replace the Rasengan(that you are correct he can't create one, my bad) with a kunai. Smashing his brain with a kunai or hearth would make irrelevant if he get's healed or not.

Just a note:
He could probably do a normal rasengan (90% sure but i can't realy prove it) as he created a normal rasengan(biju mode) before in his fight with Sasuke.

@Rikudou King

He can cut Kisame's head off or destroy his brain with a kunai and ending that fight instantly(using RM). You can forget the rasengan in RM as he can't do it, i made a mistake there.

Shaunlim

May 09, 2011, 02:02 AM

The ninjutsu won't hurt Kisame or Samehada if they absorb the chakra as the technique hits. The moment it touches would be the moment they begin to absorb it. And Samehada has shown that it can absorb chakra even if it's not in direct contact with it. The ninjutsu would only have to come within a few inches before it would be absorbed.

Samehada have shown that it needs to take a bite to absorb the chakra cloak and it isn't as easy as you make it sound here. By your explanation, not even FRS would kill Kisame if it hits him direction since he would absorb it.

Rikudou King

May 09, 2011, 02:21 AM

He can cut Kisame's head off or destroy his brain with a kunai and ending that fight instantly(using RM). You can forget the rasengan in RM as he can't do it, i made a mistake there. I highly doubt it would be that easy. Kisame has incredible durability. And since Naruto wouldn't attempt such a thing right off the bat, by the time Naruto does figure things out, Kisame would have already gained the advantage and likely have taken enough chakra from Naruto to render Rikudou form too much of a risk.

Samehada have shown that it needs to take a bite to absorb the chakra cloak and it isn't as easy as you make it sound here. By your explanation, not even FRS would kill Kisame if it hits him direction since he would absorb it. Samehada didn't need to bit to absorb the chakra cloak. It was able to absorb the chakra without direct contact (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-470/page016.html). As for the FRS, as long as Kisame had Samehada, then no he couldn't die from it. If he didn't have Samehada when he was hit, then maybe, since he appears to have to actively absorb chakra.

xXan

May 09, 2011, 02:32 AM

I highly doubt it would be that easy. Kisame has incredible durability. And since Naruto wouldn't attempt such a thing right off the bat, by the time Naruto does figure things out, Kisame would have already gained the advantage and likely have taken enough chakra from Naruto to render Rikudou form too much of a risk.

Samehada didn't need to bit to absorb the chakra cloak. It was able to absorb the chakra without direct contact (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-470/page016.html). As for the FRS, as long as Kisame had Samehada, then no he couldn't die from it. If he didn't have Samehada when he was hit, then maybe, since he appears to have to actively absorb chakra.

Naruto would probably start in sage mode (Like vs the sealing team). 2 things would happen:
1-samehada turns into a stone-frog and then Naruto stomps kisame.
2-Naruto is going to lose sage mode, at that point he will know how bad things are and he will do what i stated above.

Now of course this is all asuming in this torunament Naruto is not going to stop from fighting and try to convert Kisame to his religion. I am asuming he is actualy going to do what it takes to win.

MonsterEnvy

May 09, 2011, 02:36 AM

Shaunlim

May 09, 2011, 02:41 AM

Samehada didn't need to bit to absorb the chakra cloak. It was able to absorb the chakra without direct contact (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-470/page016.html). As for the FRS, as long as Kisame had Samehada, then no he couldn't die from it. If he didn't have Samehada when he was hit, then maybe, since he appears to have to actively absorb chakra.
My bad as I remembered it differently but while it wasn't direct contact, most of the time when Samehada eats those chakra, it was barely a few cm away. And Samehada needs to actively absorb chakra as well. This is all assuming that they can absorb ninjutsu to begin with.

Rikudou King

May 09, 2011, 02:41 AM

Naruto would probably start in sage mode (Like vs the sealing team). 2 things would happen:
1-samehada turns into a stone-frog and then Naruto stomps kisame.
2-Naruto is going to lose sage mode, at that point he will know how bad things are and he will do what i stated above.

Now of course this is all asuming in this torunament Naruto is not going to stop from fighting and try to convert Kisame to his religion. I am asuming he is actualy going to do what it takes to win. Or three, Kisame makes his water dome and keeps the pressure on Naruto until he drowns.

Why would Samehada turn to stone when it wouldn't be absorbing the natural energy? Even presuming that Sage Chakra would affect it the same way, it would only turn to stone if it was absorbing the chakra while Naruto was drawing it in, which would be unlikely. As both are going straight for the kill, Kisame would have the advantage as he would be able to kill Naruto before Naruto figured out what he needed to do to kill Kisame, especially considering the way Naruto fights.

My bad as I remembered it differently but while it wasn't direct contact, most of the time when Samehada eats those chakra, it was barely a few cm away. And Samehada needs to actively absorb chakra as well. This is all assuming that they can absorb ninjutsu to begin with. Well, it's a little further then a few cm. the difference with Samehada is that it would begin to actively absorb chakra right away and wouldn't have to do anything else the rest of the battle. There's no reason it shouldn't be able to absorb ninjutsu from what we know.

xXan

May 09, 2011, 02:42 AM

your grasping at straws now you beat yourself with your own agument I had forgotten that Naruto can't make Rasengan's in his new mode plus he can hardly aim in it and if he misses or Kisame gets back up he is screwed

What how so? Naruto already used rasengan in 1 tails form so its not 100% sure HE CAN'T. He could use extra biju cands to make a normal rasengan and not a bijudama rasengan but i can't prove for sure and then i used a kunai replacement as that would work to.

Kisame's head/neck is not made out of adamantium so Naruto can defenetly cut his head off. Also considering the training there is not way in hell Naruto can't even run at hight speed in RM. He is running in it right now to get as fast as posible to the fighting area. Kisame will never get back up from the hit even if its not a fatal one. After the first hit Naruto just hits him again before Samehada can even heal him.

Also this is not "your grasping at straws" this is how you debate bub. You post a theory and then someone comes and chalanges that, then you chalange what the other dude stated and so on.

@RK

Kisame never used the dome off the bat (he made a lake before i know). He first steals biju chakra, merges with Samehada and then creates the water dome.
Even if he creates that Naruto using rasengan to propel himself would be more then enough to get out of it (creating clones at the same time so Kisame has no idea who is the real one). Also summoning a huge frog(or more then one) to get him out its a damn good option to.

Considering it was never showed that Samehada has a decend level of chakra we are left with the fact that it does not (somewhere low on it). Fat Pein had super rinnegan chakra and a decent amounth of it and Naruto was running on fumes at that moment as he used already 2 FRS (2 FRS and sage mode ends, we all know that) and 2 normal sage mode rasengans. That is why Naruto needed more sage chakra(it is even stated by the elder frog that was Pein was absorbing was sage energy(not the one found in Nature)). Samehada is going to turn close to instantly into stone considering all this.

Also aside from draining Naruto to death(and using diferent jutsus when he get's Naruto's chakra) there is no way in hell Kisame can do shit to him. Kisame can't kill Naruto off the bat. If Naruto is smart and he is he is going to at first send a clone in to see what this guy can do. After that he is going to know what to expect from Kisame.

1 punch from Naruto that never even made contact was more then enough to kill 1 realm... Imagine if one of those hits Kisame direcly in his face ... After that punch Samehada is going to need to heal him and that will never happen as Naruto would start to kick it away and rip Kisame to pieces. This time plot no jutsu is not going to work and his opponent its not going to just look how cool Kisame can heal...

DEATHBOTT

May 09, 2011, 03:15 AM

Doing that's a double edge. Every clone that Naruto uses would grant Kisame more chakra.

Aside from Naruto having to figure out the situation with Samehada first, kicking Samehada away won't stop it from coming back (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-473/page003.html).

As for the pencil, that was probably because Samehada wasn't anywhere near the pencil. There's a certain range Samehada has to be to absorb the chakra from what we have seen.
naurot will feel his chakra getting eaten and can probably sense it now with his new sensing skills.
yeah it does but in that time naruto can kill kisame. kisame kicked it quite easily and he would have had a enough time to kill bee if he hadnt been interupted.

xXan

May 09, 2011, 03:19 AM

naurot will feel his chakra getting eaten and can probably sense it now with his new sensing skills.
yeah it does but in that time naruto can kill kisame. kisame kicked it quite easily and he would have had a enough time to kill bee if he hadnt been interupted.

If Naruto kicks Samehada away its going to end up in orbit considering how far he can trow a huge summon. 1 kick and that thing its not going back to Kisame ... like ever.

Rikudou King

May 09, 2011, 04:57 AM

naurot will feel his chakra getting eaten and can probably sense it now with his new sensing skills.
yeah it does but in that time naruto can kill kisame. kisame kicked it quite easily and he would have had a enough time to kill bee if he hadnt been interupted. Feeling his chakra getting eating wouldn't prevent Kisame from doing it. Removing Samehada won't mean Kisame is completely defenseless or remove his ability to absorb chakra. He can still fight without it and worst case would merely have to hide inside his water prison or just go after Samehada if he feels outmatched. of course this is presuming that Kisame hasn't merged with Samehada already, in which case there would be no way to separate them.

If Naruto kicks Samehada away its going to end up in orbit considering how far he can trow a huge summon. 1 kick and that thing its not going back to Kisame ... like ever. I don't know about that. Naruto kicked Deva Path while in Sage Mode (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-433/page008.html) and he wasn't sent incredibly far (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-433/page009.html). I could see Samehada going maybe twice that far, but either way it wouldn't take very long to get back.

xXan

May 09, 2011, 05:13 AM

Feeling his chakra getting eating wouldn't prevent Kisame from doing it. Removing Samehada won't mean Kisame is completely defenseless or remove his ability to absorb chakra. He can still fight without it and worst case would merely have to hide inside his water prison or just go after Samehada if he feels outmatched. of course this is presuming that Kisame hasn't merged with Samehada already, in which case there would be no way to separate them.

I don't know about that. Naruto kicked Deva Path while in Sage Mode (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-433/page008.html) and he wasn't sent incredibly far (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-433/page009.html). I could see Samehada going maybe twice that far, but either way it wouldn't take very long to get back.

That was Deva realm, the most powerfull thing Nagato had. He blocked that hit and he knows how to slow himself down. Look here:
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-441/page012.html

See the crater? This is a direct hit. Samehada can't block stuff so its going to fly away a long distance. Also if you look in your link Naruto kicked in a downwords motion and he slowed himself because he hit the ground and used whatever motions(with his limbs to slow down). If Naruto kicks Samehada upwords its going to fly away a extremly huge distance. I hit and Smehada its out of range. Even if it can get back let's say 5 minutes later this fight would defenetly be over by then.

Kyuubi_no_Gaki

May 09, 2011, 06:20 AM

I went for Naruto on a bit of a whim here because I think he DOES have the trump card of using Sennin Mode which would f Samehada's s up sideways.

The only problem with that is, naturally, how many beatings would Naruto have to take to notice the sword eats his chakra?

Being a Naruto fan, I answered "not enough to finish the job" and voted for him. Very skewed vote, but I suppose that's my right :P

ricardDvs

May 09, 2011, 06:28 AM

very close call, just becuz Kisame is the perfect counter for Naruto.... If it wasn't for that Sennin chakra thingy (that petrified preta path pain) i would definitely give it Kisame... But based on the recent events (Kiuuby cloak) i gave it to Naruto... but the moar i think about it the harder it gets... well, its done anyways :amuse

jorped

May 09, 2011, 06:29 AM

Rikudou mode is easily the worst thing Naruto can do in this battle. Samehada will easily eat its chakra like it ate Bee's. He's much better off using Sage mode as that chakra stays inside Naruto's body instead of projecting a chakra shroud.

But you really think that on this mode Samehada can really have any effect on Naruto ? Naruto moves so damm fast , all Kisame is going to see is a yellow flash ! Naruto can easily hit Kisame without needing to suffer any stealing of his chakra ! And what can Kisame really do against a Bijuu Dama ? If this happens i am not seeing him only end with a hole in his chest , but yes seeing him completely destroyed and evaporated from Naruto Universe :lmao

Mack

May 09, 2011, 06:36 AM

Kisame will try hard, there is no doubt that he will put up an amazing fight. But eventhough he might steal Naruto's chakra, Naruto will still overpower him.

mattiaildivino

May 09, 2011, 08:01 AM

I'm sorry Kisame bows out so early.but against Naruto,the main character, he can't go on this tournament.it looks like fights are balanced,but Kisame should have gone on a bit more anyway.

SaintSheik

May 09, 2011, 08:42 AM

I like Kisame and all, but he's going to be wiped out in this tournament worse than he was in the manga..twice. I think given the powerups, Naruto would outspeed Kisame and as stated by others, trying to absorb Sage chakra would be Kisame's eventual downfall. Naruto wins (the tournament) :amuse

Hauradrims3

May 09, 2011, 11:15 AM

How would Naruto deal with the water dome? With his jutsu repertoire, I cant figure this one out without claiming anything silly.

Delbi

May 09, 2011, 11:27 AM

Not getting caught inside would be a great start, IMO. It isn't like the fight begins in the dome. Also, Naruto can summon toads, who are capable of working in the water quite easily, even if it takes an attempt or two to get the toad he wants.

Yea, but Kisame would be able to rip their chakra out in seconds, just making him stronger. Summoning could be a horrible idea unless he summons Ma and Pa since they are faster and more diverse whereas Bunta, Ken, etc are literally just giant targets.

jorped

May 09, 2011, 12:21 PM

First of all i doubt that Naruto would be caught in something like this , but even if he was i think he wouldn't have much trouble ! As already some people mentioned the Toads could be a good choice on this situation and i am the only one thinking that Naruto's rasengan could also be an extremely good choice for a situation like this , it would create a tornado and i don't think that even Kisame could fight against such force as it

Raizen

May 09, 2011, 12:55 PM

chilibun

May 09, 2011, 01:13 PM

WTF. So because naruto gained a new mode, all techniques he learned and can use in his base form is now questioned? :notrust.
What a ridiculous argument

Its already shown he can't use rasengan, rasenshuriken, and clones (well, he can at the risk of dieing). I'm sorry, what other jutsu's does he have? Harem? How about you stop assuming things and actually provide some manga proof.

DarkPrinceRevan

May 09, 2011, 01:19 PM

Its already shown he can't use rasengan, rasenshuriken, and clones (well, he can at the risk of dieing). I'm sorry, what other jutsu's does he have? Harem? How about you stop assuming things and actually provide some manga proof.

all that means is now he'll fight like an improved version of the one tailed kyuubi mode that pummeled sasuke in the VoTE fight

jorped

May 09, 2011, 01:23 PM

Its already shown he can't use rasengan, rasenshuriken, and clones (well, he can at the risk of dieing). I'm sorry, what other jutsu's does he have? Harem? How about you stop assuming things and actually provide some manga proof.

We all know that his Rikudo Mode is going to be useful !! :yelling
Do you think that Naruto is going to be weaker with this Mode?
And Naruto has now the Bijuu Dama so that makes him already a lot stronger than he was before ! His speed, sensor and strength skills are so much better now that it is "ridiculous" to think that Kisame can beat Naruto !

Delbi

May 09, 2011, 01:28 PM

Even if a summon needs to be sacrificed for chakra, it might buy Naruto time to escape the dome. That's the bigger picture, IMO. Life over suffocation or death by chakra depletion.

True but Kisame moves incredibly fast in the water, Naruto doesn't. Bee was in his tailed mode was even no match for Kisame in the water. And remember, even if Naruto runs, so long as Kisame is chasing him the dome is moving with them and Naruto can't get out.
[hr]

We all know that his Rikudo Mode is going to be useful !! :yelling
Do you think that Naruto is going to be weaker with this Mode?
And Naruto has now the Bijuu Dama so that makes him already a lot stronger than he was before ! His speed, sensor and strength skills are so much better now that it is "ridiculous" to think that Kisame can beat Naruto !

Rikudou mode is much more powerful and fast, but Sage Mode is much more diverse and useful at this point in time.

chilibun

May 09, 2011, 01:32 PM

We all know that his Rikudo Mode is going to be useful !! :yelling
Do you think that Naruto is going to be weaker with this Mode?
And Naruto has now the Bijuu Dama so that makes him already a lot stronger than he was before ! His speed, sensor and strength skills are so much better now that it is "ridiculous" to think that Kisame can beat Naruto !

But he can't currently. He also has not mastered the Bijuu Dama. Just because he may in the future doesn't mean he gets it in this battle. I never said RM doesn't improve his strength, speed, or senses. I'm just stating he can't use his usual jutsus.

DarkPrinceRevan

May 09, 2011, 01:33 PM

and naruto aint no slouch in underwater conditions when using the kyuubi's chakra http://www.mangareader.net/93-234-6/naruto/chapter-229.html

i felt this should taken into consideration despite it being pre time skip

Delbi

May 09, 2011, 01:46 PM

i felt this should taken into consideration despite it being pre time skip

That isn't going to come close to what Kisame is capable of in the waterdome. His speed in unmatched he, is a shark afterall.

Raizen

May 09, 2011, 01:50 PM

That isn't going to come close to what Kisame is capable of in the waterdome. His speed in unmatched he, is a shark afterall.
Bee was keeping from kisame just fine in the water dome. And that is while carrying both the racoon and that other guy

Delbi

May 09, 2011, 01:56 PM

Bee was keeping from kisame just fine in the water dome. And that is while carrying both the racoon and that other guy

So when Kisame faked out Bee and went after the other two then doubled back to nail Bee he wasn't showing great speed in the water?

Or do you mean to tell me Naruto in the water with no fins or tails, just feet to propel himself is somehow faster than Kisame? :notrust

LnDRash

May 09, 2011, 01:56 PM

Except for the moment where Bee spit out the ink, got a fair headstart and Kisame catched him without the slightest bit of trouble.

Raizen

May 09, 2011, 01:57 PM

Gats

May 09, 2011, 02:02 PM

Except for the moment where Bee spit out the ink, got a fair headstart and Kisame catched him without the slightest bit of trouble.

Bee was in "base mode" since he didn't have enough chakra left after Kisame held him one last time :
http://www.mangareader.net/93-40192-10/naruto/chapter-472.html
So yes it would be a shame if Kisame didn't manage to catch him.

Besides Kisame wouldn't try to trick Bee if he was confident enough to catch him before :
http://www.mangareader.net/93-40192-5/naruto/chapter-472.html

Delbi

May 09, 2011, 02:06 PM

He waited until bee was close to him. Bee was the one moving to kisame in order to save his friends. it has nothing to do with kisame's speed

And yet Kisame closed in on him before he could even defend himself.

And what does Bee's speed have to do with Naruto's underwater. Nothing indicates that Naruto can move fast underwater to keep up with Kisame's speed. And even if he could, the water dome moves with Kisame, so Naruto would just drown eventually.

DarkPrinceRevan

May 09, 2011, 02:06 PM

So when Kisame faked out Bee and went after the other two then doubled back to nail Bee he wasn't showing great speed in the water?

Or do you mean to tell me Naruto in the water with no fins or tails, just feet to propel himself is somehow faster than Kisame? :notrust

and im pretty sure using chakra to propel yourself thru water is a viable option here since thats one of the advantages of the cloak

Except for the moment where Bee spit out the ink, got a fair headstart and Kisame catched him without the slightest bit of trouble.

bee wasnt even in his cloak at that point and he was out of breathe (possibly from spitting the ink or somehow talking underwater)

Rikudou King

May 09, 2011, 02:30 PM

That was Deva realm, the most powerfull thing Nagato had. He blocked that hit and he knows how to slow himself down. Look here:
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-441/page012.html

See the crater? This is a direct hit. Samehada can't block stuff so its going to fly away a long distance. Also if you look in your link Naruto kicked in a downwords motion and he slowed himself because he hit the ground and used whatever motions(with his limbs to slow down). If Naruto kicks Samehada upwords its going to fly away a extremly huge distance. I hit and Smehada its out of range. Even if it can get back let's say 5 minutes later this fight would defenetly be over by then. It was Deva Path without his ability. so how exactly does moving to block less the power of being kicked away? If that's possible, then Samehada planting itself in the ground with it's spikes (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-472/page015.html) or "head" (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-472/page014.html) would also be a option. Not to mention the simple option of just wrapping it's tail around Kisame and partially merging (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-471/page016.html).

How would the fight be over by then? It's not like Kisame is a push over. Not only can he defend himself by hiding underwater or underground if he needs to, we have seen that Kisame is still a strong opponent on his own.

Indeed. Kisame was never shown to the Shark Fin Flash, lol. He actually has (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-472/page011.html).

Bee was in "base mode" since he didn't have enough chakra left after Kisame held him one last time :
http://www.mangareader.net/93-40192-10/naruto/chapter-472.html
So yes it would be a shame if Kisame didn't manage to catch him.

Besides Kisame wouldn't try to trick Bee if he was confident enough to catch him before :
http://www.mangareader.net/93-40192-5/naruto/chapter-472.html But Kisame didn't want to catch Kirabi. Remember, he was purposely playing around so that he could switch places with Zetsu and sneak into Kumo.

monkey D luffy

May 09, 2011, 02:39 PM

You guys are wrong. To turn into stone Samehada would have to absorb raw natural energy and not natural energy which was already transformed into sage chakra.

Kisame wins this fight, he's the perfect counter to any Jinchuriki or other shinobi who relies mostly on his stamina... not even the Rasenshuriken could be used against Kisame because it would just end in a terrible backfire thanks to Daikoudan No Jutsu.

i just have to say that i dont believe you are truly right, one of the pain bodies turned into stone when naruto charged up sage chakra (he was in sage mode immidiattly afterwards) so even sage chakra will stone samehada, also is kyuubi mode allowed here? if so we already saw that naruto can destroy kisame...

ashher

May 09, 2011, 03:01 PM

jorped

May 09, 2011, 03:10 PM

Voted naruto, but honestly speaking, basing on what we've seen so far in the manga, kisame has the advantage in a direct confrontation between these two. Then again, fighting against the odd is Naruto's speciality aye!

You guys are underestimating Naruto a lot ! First of all do you guys think that Kisame can block Naruto's attacks ? Do you guys understand how awesome is speed is at Rikudo Mode?
The only thing he would see would be a yellow flash !
And i don't even see the necessity of Naruto using RM , i think he would win against Kisame even if he went only with Sage Mode in his arsenal ! Naruto is the most unpredictable shinobi that anyone can face , Kisame would really be a strong opponent but Naruto would managed to beat him !
I can't see how Kisame can defend from such explosive attack as FRS

hakuthehedgehog

May 09, 2011, 03:18 PM

I really doubt that Samehada would be able to absorb the chakra of RM before Naruto Punches a hole in his chest.

Naruto blitzed Kisame without control of his new mode, with control, he would probably tear Kisame in half before he could react.

Heck, Naruto could just chop Kisame's hand / arm off and throw Samehada into oblivion like he threw Pain's Rhino.

About the water dome: Naruto can make chakra hands and swim to the top in no time, or get into sage mode and use chou oodoma rasengan to blow the dome away, or use gamabunta to get off the dome.

Kisamehada drains chakra relatively shortly, so Naruto would be able to tear his head off before he eats all his chakra.

Naruto wins this.

THM Nindo

May 09, 2011, 04:08 PM

How would Naruto deal with the water dome? With his jutsu repertoire, I cant figure this one out without claiming anything silly.

Frogs.

And that's only if he get caught in the first place.

Naruto has an amazing speed right now.
He could probably outrun Kisame if he tries to pull out the water dome.

chilibun

May 09, 2011, 04:12 PM

i just have to say that i dont believe you are truly right, one of the pain bodies turned into stone when naruto charged up sage chakra (he was in sage mode immidiattly afterwards) so even sage chakra will stone samehada, also is kyuubi mode allowed here? if so we already saw that naruto can destroy kisame...

Eating balanced sage chakra would not turn Samehada into stone. You only turn to stone when you have too much natural energy vs physical and spiritual. For samehada to turn to stone, he would have to eat bad sage chakra, but Naruto would turn to stone first if he decides to mold bad sage chakra.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-415-15/naruto/chapter-410.html

I really doubt that Samehada would be able to absorb the chakra of RM before Naruto Punches a hole in his chest.

Naruto blitzed Kisame without control of his new mode, with control, he would probably tear Kisame in half before he could react.

Heck, Naruto could just chop Kisame's hand / arm off and throw Samehada into oblivion like he threw Pain's Rhino.

About the water dome: Naruto can make chakra hands and swim to the top in no time, or get into sage mode and use chou oodoma rasengan to blow the dome away, or use gamabunta to get off the dome.

Kisamehada drains chakra relatively shortly, so Naruto would be able to tear his head off before he eats all his chakra.

Naruto wins this.

An unsuspecting Kisame ate a RM Naruto punch just fine and was still able to run along. Thats enough time for Samehada to eat enough chakra and replenish him.

If an octopus Bee/Hachibi cannot outrun Kisame, its unlikely Naruto can either. He also would be not be able to get into sage mode as that would just make him a sitting duck. His best move would be to either summon a Gamabunta or mass Kagebunshins and swim in opposite directions.

Kisame's skillsets are perfect for dealing with Jinchuurikis. This is a bad matchup for Naruto indeed.

Lelo

May 09, 2011, 04:30 PM

i say Naruto. He should know most of Kisames jutsus by now and when he hit Kisame while in Kyuubi mode, that showed how quick and powerful he could be. But I dont think he would need the Kyuubi in this fight, all he needs is Sage mode

Rikudou King

May 09, 2011, 06:29 PM

Nath Uchiha

May 09, 2011, 07:20 PM

bhasty

May 09, 2011, 08:51 PM

Eating balanced sage chakra would not turn Samehada into stone. You only turn to stone when you have too much natural energy vs physical and spiritual. For samehada to turn to stone, he would have to eat bad sage chakra, but Naruto would turn to stone first if he decides to mold bad sage chakra.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-415-15/naruto/chapter-410.html.

I disagree.. if naruto in sage mode, his senjutsu chakra is balance... (spiritual energy, physical stamina and nature energy). if samehada/kisame absorb the sage chakra of naruto, a balance sage chakra, then it'll mix on kisame/samehada's chakra, then it will become imbalance on kisame/samehada's chakra system.. so both of them will become stone for the reason that they don't know on how to control a sage chakra. unless samehada/kisame has some kind of storage room for sage chakra.. just like naruto who has some kind of storage room for the kyubi's chakra.. Then maybe they can't become a stone..

An unsuspecting Kisame ate a RM Naruto punch just fine and was still able to run along. Thats enough time for Samehada to eat enough chakra and replenish him.

If an octopus Bee/Hachibi cannot outrun Kisame, its unlikely Naruto can either. He also would be not be able to get into sage mode as that would just make him a sitting duck. His best move would be to either summon a Gamabunta or mass Kagebunshins and swim in opposite directions.

Kisame's skillsets are perfect for dealing with Jinchuurikis. This is a bad matchup for Naruto indeed.

But kyubi is far more powerful than the others. and kyubi's chakra is far more powerful than hachibi's chakra..

in naruto/sasuke fight in part 1. Naruto can move so damn fast at the water with just 1 or 2 tails.. Then imagine, naruto who fully control the kyubi's chakra can do..He can definitely outrun kisame in the water dome.. and also, he has an extra hands to help him to grab anything from the outside..

Kisame is indeed the perfect hunter for the jinchuurikis. But the kyubi is too much for him to handle.. naruto who has fully control over the kyubi's chakra is far more than the others jinchuuriki.. Kisame is no match for him. Afterall, itachi was the one who should hunt naruto.. and only itachi and pain are capable to hunt the kyubi's jinchuuriki in the akatsuki..

Shaunlim

May 09, 2011, 09:33 PM

Well, it's a little further then a few cm. the difference with Samehada is that it would begin to actively absorb chakra right away and wouldn't have to do anything else the rest of the battle. There's no reason it shouldn't be able to absorb ninjutsu from what we know.

I still firmly believe that ninjutsu and chakra is two very different things. Since with ninjutsu, the chakra is already formed into a shape and into an element as well.

LnDRash

May 09, 2011, 09:48 PM

I disagree.. if naruto in sage mode, his senjutsu chakra is balance... (spiritual energy, physical stamina and nature energy). if samehada/kisame absorb the sage chakra of naruto, a balance sage chakra, then it'll mix on kisame/samehada's chakra, then it will become imbalance on kisame/samehada's chakra system..

You are right, if he absorbs Narutos spiritual energy, his physical stamina and nature energy to mix it with his own huge chakra pool it will become imbalanced...

But since you only turn into a stone frog if you suck in so much natural energy that it outweights your physical and spiritual energy exactly nothing would happen... Kisame just wouldn't be able to use sage arts... which I'am fairly certain won't bother him that much.

bhasty

May 09, 2011, 10:16 PM

Its already shown he can't use rasengan, rasenshuriken, and clones (well, he can at the risk of dieing). I'm sorry, what other jutsu's does he have? Harem? How about you stop assuming things and actually provide some manga proof.

I agree.. naruto can't use the rasengan (base mode) in RM.. BUT he can used the rasengan in RM in a form of bijuudama.. BUt the rasenshuriken, maybe he can.. Afterall, he was already mastered the rasenshuriken in sage mode and in base mode.. He doesn't need to create a clone for this jutsu cuz He has an extra hands to do the job. Then He can add his nature wind chakra to his bijuudama to create the most powerful jutsu the "bijuushuriken".. im wonder how kisame can handle that jutsu..

LnDRash

May 09, 2011, 10:27 PM

Then He can add his nature wind chakra to his bijuudama to create the most powerful jutsu the "bijuushuriken".. im wonder how kisame can handle that jutsu..

Just like every other ranged attack which is made purely out of chakra: Daikoudan No Jutsu :p

bhasty

May 09, 2011, 10:38 PM

You are right, if he absorbs Narutos spiritual energy, his physical stamina and nature energy to mix it with his own huge chakra pool it will become imbalanced...

But since you only turn into a stone frog if you suck in so much natural energy that it outweights your physical and spiritual energy exactly nothing would happen... Kisame just wouldn't be able to use sage arts... which I'am fairly certain won't bother him that much.

But sage mode naruto have so much senjutsu chakra.. well, if kisame will going to absorb naruto's sage chakra more than once then maybe he will become a stone.. afterall, fat pain become a stone the moment he absorb so much senjutsu chakra..

But what about the samehada.? im pretty sure it will become a stone the moment he absorb the sage chakra..

Without his samehada, kisame are nothing.. So maybe naruto can win this without using his RM..

DEATHBOTT

May 09, 2011, 11:22 PM

Feeling his chakra getting eating wouldn't prevent Kisame from doing it. Removing Samehada won't mean Kisame is completely defenseless or remove his ability to absorb chakra. He can still fight without it and worst case would merely have to hide inside his water prison or just go after Samehada if he feels outmatched. of course this is presuming that Kisame hasn't merged with Samehada already, in which case there would be no way to separate them.

I don't know about that. Naruto kicked Deva Path while in Sage Mode (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-433/page008.html) and he wasn't sent incredibly far (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-433/page009.html). I could see Samehada going maybe twice that far, but either way it wouldn't take very long to get back.
this is after kisame has already been injured so he would be defensless with out samehada. if bee had knocked it away after he lariated kisame he could have killed him before kisame could heal. im saying naruto could do the same.
[hr]

Naruto wouldn't know any of Kisame's techniques or what Samehada can do, so he would have to waste time figuring all that out before he could come up with a plan to kill Kisame. Meanwhile, Kisame doesn't have to know what Naruto can do to kill him.

thats completely ridiculous. how does naruto need to work out that if he punches a hole in kisame's head he will die? and why doesn't kisame need to work out anything to kill naruto? thats a completely absurd thing to say.

Rikudou King

May 09, 2011, 11:51 PM

I still firmly believe that ninjutsu and chakra is two very different things. Since with ninjutsu, the chakra is already formed into a shape and into an element as well. Kirabi formed his chakra around his swords while transforming it into lightning nature, which we have seen would make it a ninjutsu, and Samehada was able to absorb it. So by all accounts ninjutsu and chakra are considered the same and Samehada can absorb it.

this is after kisame has already been injured so he would be defensless with out samehada. if bee had knocked it away after he lariated kisame he could have killed him before kisame could heal. im saying naruto could do the same. And how would Naruto injure Kisame so badly that he would be defenseless? Kisame took a beating from seventh gate Gai and was still able to fight. Naruto has shown no sort of physical power on that level or even Kirabi's level, so what can Naruto do to push him that far when Kisame has considerable durability and the ability to negate Naruto's ninjutsu?

thats completely ridiculous. how does naruto need to work out that if he punches a hole in kisame's head he will die? and why doesn't kisame need to work out anything to kill naruto? thats a completely absurd thing to say. It's not ridiculous at all. Naruto's entire fighting style revolves around using the Rasengan to fight with. It'll take time for Naruto to figure out his ninjutsu won't have an effect, first because of Samehada and then because of Kisame's own ability. He'll also will need to learn that Kisame can endure his physical blows after he switches to taijutsu. Naruto's not gonna aim straight for Kisame's skull with a punch as his first move. Meanwhile, Kisame won't have to work anything out because Naruto doesn't have the ability to outright negate his techniques. He's not gonna have to take time to figure out a why to murder Naruto.

Bhoot

May 10, 2011, 12:31 AM

Well I voted for Naruto simply because of the speed boost he seems to gain from Rikou Mode and well I assume that Kiyubi mode might provide even more speed [just think both being used together] .

Yes Samehada is a gr8 sword and its wielder is equally gr8 , but its useless if u cant hit the guy right ??

halfcrzy

May 10, 2011, 01:02 AM

Naruffy

May 10, 2011, 01:40 AM

It'd be a difficult fight, but I'd say Naruto. Samehada can only absorb a limited amount of Sage chakra before turning to stone, and It's hard to say whether or not Samehada would be able to react quick enough to absorb chakra from Naruto in Rikudou mode (Naruto Speed > Bee's Speed).

Mack

May 10, 2011, 03:05 AM

How would Naruto deal with the water dome? With his jutsu repertoire, I cant figure this one out without claiming anything silly.

I think he is from few people, who can actually deal with it.

I see him blowing up the waterdome simply with his chakra, or with rasen-shuriken.

bhasty

May 10, 2011, 04:42 AM

Kirabi formed his chakra around his swords while transforming it into lightning nature, which we have seen would make it a ninjutsu, and Samehada was able to absorb it. So by all accounts ninjutsu and chakra are considered the same and Samehada can absorb it..

I disagree.. look here (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v35/c317/20.html).. asuma's chakra blade is the same as kirabi's lightning sword.. Asuma was just manipulating his wind chakra into his blade.. Its not a jutsu, bee's lightning sword is not a jutsu.. It's just bee was just manipulating his lightning chakra into his sword.. manipulating your chakra nature is not a jutsu.. it's just every chakra has affinity to the elemental nature..

DarkPrinceRevan

May 10, 2011, 05:36 AM

Kirabi formed his chakra around his swords while transforming it into lightning nature, which we have seen would make it a ninjutsu, and Samehada was able to absorb it. So by all accounts ninjutsu and chakra are considered the same and Samehada can absorb it.

And how would Naruto injure Kisame so badly that he would be defenseless? Kisame took a beating from seventh gate Gai and was still able to fight. Naruto has shown no sort of physical power on that level or even Kirabi's level, so what can Naruto do to push him that far when Kisame has considerable durability and the ability to negate Naruto's ninjutsu?

It's not ridiculous at all. Naruto's entire fighting style revolves around using the Rasengan to fight with. It'll take time for Naruto to figure out his ninjutsu won't have an effect, first because of Samehada and then because of Kisame's own ability. He'll also will need to learn that Kisame can endure his physical blows after he switches to taijutsu. Naruto's not gonna aim straight for Kisame's skull with a punch as his first move. Meanwhile, Kisame won't have to work anything out because Naruto doesn't have the ability to outright negate his techniques. He's not gonna have to take time to figure out a why to murder Naruto.

naruto without sage mode is incredibly durable and strong on his own, hes strong enough to shatter stone when he broke out of preta path grip after he absorbed to much nature energy. and with sage mode his strength and durable are amped up considerably. he was knocking deva path around when he was in sage mode with his kicks compare this kick where deva barely managed to block http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-433/page008.html to the one that he couldnt http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-433/page008.html big difference huh?

and i doubt theres anything kisame can do if naruto hits him with a nature energy fueled punch to the face and breaks his neck. and i dont see where you base your argument on why he wouldnt aim for the head if this is a fight to win and kill your opponent.

and to suggest kisame wouldnt have to work out a way to fight naruto is a serious underestimation of naruto. look what happened in his fight against might guy he realized to late that his best move had no effect on gai's and got wtf pawned for his trouble

DEATHBOTT

May 10, 2011, 05:47 AM

Naruto's not gonna aim straight for Kisame's skull with a punch as his first move.

says who? he did it with hungry ghost. and its the most logical place to strike especially with his frog katas reach. is he going to punch kisame in the ankle?

hakuthehedgehog

May 10, 2011, 08:49 AM

How can Naruto win:

RM:
1- Naruto is faster in RM than Kisame, when he didn't have absolutely no training with the mode, he almost killed Kisame with one hit, with control, he could punch his head off before Kisame can even react, or pull a Raikage and hit him from behind.
2- Let's say Kisame survives the first hit and heals with the chakra stolen from Naruto, what's stopping Naruto to finish him off while he's down, or for him to use his chakra hands from undeground and attack Kisame from behind, ripping him in half?
3- The water dome: Naruto can make his hands and swim extremely fast to the top, or, since Kisamehada doesn't absorb chakra instantly like samehada, it actually takes some time, Naruto can use use his chakra hands to crush him before he can absorb all of them.

That about covers RM Naruto, now for sage mode Naruto:

First of all, Naruto can enter sage mode very fast, as shown against Pain and Iruka, and Kisame can't block frog Katas because they are Natural energy, not sage chakra, and Naruto can disarm Kisame more easily thanks to the frog katas.

Also, Naruto can use KB to learn Kisame's abilities without wasting too much chakra and can summon Ma, Pa and the 3 great frogs to give him a significant advantage.

Against, the water dome, Naruto can use a chou oodoma rasengan, and blow up the dome, or just summon a frog to get him out of the dome.

LnDRash

May 10, 2011, 09:15 AM

If Kisame has Samehada then any speedblitz atempt is useless. Naruto hasn't shown the power to punch someone's head of and if even Bee's version 2 lariat or Gais Noon Tiger failed to knock Kisame out then Narutos speedblitz punch will do nothing more then hurt Kisame and send him flying. Kisame will regenerate and Naruto will lose a huge bunch of his Kyuubi chakra just by coming into contact with Kisame and Samehada between them.

Naruto has basically no way of hurting Kisame. Close combat stuff like Rasengan would be sucked out of his palm before it even conects and his only ranged technique, the Rasenshuriken would be hard-countered by Daikoudan No Jutsu.

Samehada has also schown to be a highly capable sensor and it was shown that sensors can distinguish between clones and real persons, so even Naruto's clones may prove nothing more then a giant waste of chakra.

And what can Naruto do against the water dome? Don't tell me stuff like he will destroy it with some Rasenshuriken or Chou-Rasengan. The dome isn't solid so he has nowhere to smash it, it would just travel through the dome... and even if he could smash something into it, those jutsu aren't nearly large enough. I fail to see how anything but a massive shinra tensei, noon tiger or kirin could blow up the dome.

jdw

May 10, 2011, 09:31 AM

If Naruto can separate Kisane from Samehada, which does not appear to be difficult, he can deal great damage to him. A kage bunshin might be able to keep Samehada away (if Naruto doesn't throw it far enough) and Naruto can take the initiative.

hakuthehedgehog

May 10, 2011, 09:45 AM

Naruto's chakra hands have shown to be bale to obliterate rock almost instantly, I'm pretty sure he can do the same to Kisame.

Also, I doubt Samehada can cure a broken neck, Kisame being ripped in half, or having his brains smashed, all things Naruto can do in either modes.

Naruto can blitz behind Kisame and rip in half with his chakra hands before Samehada can turn, or kick Samehada off Kisame's hands with his frog katas or with the frog's tongues.

Naruto can smash a chou oodoma rasengan with another, blowing them up.

Chou oodoma rasengan is said to have the power to hollow out a freaking mountain, I'm sure that qualifies as enough force to blow up the dome or a very significant portion of it and it isn't the only option I've presented.

ashher

May 10, 2011, 10:11 AM

Naruto has to depend on taijutsu to beat kisame. Rasengan and frs can be handled by samehada. In case of taijutsu, i don't think clones will be of much help. His best bet is blitzing kisame. Chakra hands against samehada is only gonna feed chakra to the sword. Now kisame seems well equiped for fighting while maintaining distance with his large scale water jutsus. If he traps naruto in that huge water dome sort of jutsu and merge with samehada, i think he can close the gap in speed to a minimum, and at the same time make naruto's taijutsu loose much of its deadliness, because of samehada reviving him. Then there is kisame's chakra eating shirk jutsu, an attack and a defense at the same time. Terrible jutsu really cause it can't be countered or blocked by ninjutsu. Unless naruto has the knowledge of its nature, 90%chance is that he'll throw frs at it, cause that is the only jutsu in his reportier that can be a match for kisame's jutsu in scale, class and speed...which would be his doom. And if he does have the knowledge beforehand, avoiding that jutsu in the water dome would be extremely difficult. Even in air the jutsu matched the speed of eight gates. In water dome, it'll be just plain crazy while naruto'll have difficulty in moving in water. And before someone says that naruto'll use chakra hands to move, once again remember that against samehada doing that won't be easy as kisame can cut those chakra limbs.

Jorge D. Dragon

May 10, 2011, 10:38 AM

Kisame is a beast that is one of the strongest in the manga, but Naruto is actually one of the few persons who can deal with him. Even before getting Kuyubi's chakra under control he managed to take down Pain and he was I'd say one of the three strongest shinbobi of the current Naruto World and now he gained tremendous speed and power with his Rikudou Mode, so he can just blitz Kisame.

Raizen

May 10, 2011, 01:57 PM

And yet Kisame closed in on him before he could even defend himself.

And what does Bee's speed have to do with Naruto's underwater. Nothing indicates that Naruto can move fast underwater to keep up with Kisame's speed. And even if he could, the water dome moves with Kisame, so Naruto would just drown eventually.
U need to read that fight again. U obviously don't get it. Kisame didn't close in on bee. Bee purposely chose to swim towards kisame because he thought his friends were in danger. Thus making your point that kisame is faster than bee moot.

Because naruto's speed can be argued to equal if not surpass bee.And ever heard of moving up? Kisame's dome can't expand upwards.

Rikudou King

May 10, 2011, 02:22 PM

Haha Am I missing something here, wasn't it stated a few times that kyuubi chakra was posion? Just let the lil sword munch on that and die haha. Or turn it to stone with sage chakra, as I believe it sage energy is more of a problem about having to much than any balancing issues. So just clone and release. Lastly, your all forgetting about the part where naruto can run around the world at lightning speed and punch kisame in the back of the head before he can blink an eye. Now who can argue with logic! I think we got a winner. The Kyuubi's chakra itself isn't poisonous. It's only when the Kyuubi itself is controlling the chakra that it becomes poisonous. We saw this in the VotE and his fight with Orochimaru. Not to mention that we have seen that Samehada has no trouble absorbing the Kyuubi's chakra. To turn to stone, Samehada and Kisame would have to be overloaded with natural energy which is nearly impossible because Kisame has far more chakra then base Naruto has. Naruto would have to willing gather far more natural energy then normal multiple times in order for them to be transformed into stone. And Naruto being fast doesn't change the fact that we already saw Kisame take a hit from him in Rikudou form and it didn't do much damage.

I disagree.. look here (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v35/c317/20.html).. asuma's chakra blade is the same as kirabi's lightning sword.. Asuma was just manipulating his wind chakra into his blade.. Its not a jutsu, bee's lightning sword is not a jutsu.. It's just bee was just manipulating his lightning chakra into his sword.. manipulating your chakra nature is not a jutsu.. it's just every chakra has affinity to the elemental nature.. Changing your chakra into an element and forming it around something is basically a ninjutsu. We know so because Sasuke's Chidori Sword is considered a ninjutsu and that's all it really is, lightning chakra around a sword.

naruto without sage mode is incredibly durable and strong on his own, hes strong enough to shatter stone when he broke out of preta path grip after he absorbed to much nature energy. and with sage mode his strength and durable are amped up considerably. he was knocking deva path around when he was in sage mode with his kicks compare this kick where deva barely managed to block http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-433/page008.html to the one that he couldnt http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-433/page008.html big difference huh? Naruto may be somewhat durable in base form, but he's not that strong. As far as we have seen, even with Sage Mode's boost, his strength is nowhere near the power of Kirabi, who with a tackle was able to blast a person's chest apart or Gai, who created a massive explosion with his pressurized punch. Kisame took both of those and still survived. So he would have little trouble handling what Naruto throws out, especially when we have seen something with less durability take his physical attacks.

and i doubt theres anything kisame can do if naruto hits him with a nature energy fueled punch to the face and breaks his neck. and i dont see where you base your argument on why he wouldnt aim for the head if this is a fight to win and kill your opponent. Well, unlike Hungry Path, Kisame's not gonna attempt to engage Naruto in a double strike and Kisame's height and reach would prevent such a thing from happening if they did. Naruto's not gonna aim straight for the head right off the bat because his style of fighting revolves around his ninjutsu and with no knowledge that his ninjutsu would be useless, he has no reason to go straight for the skull with a punch. By the time he does figure it out, it'll be too late.

and to suggest kisame wouldnt have to work out a way to fight naruto is a serious underestimation of naruto. look what happened in his fight against might guy he realized to late that his best move had no effect on gai's and got wtf pawned for his trouble What would Kisame have to work out? Naruto has nothing that would make Kisame's attacks moot. He doesn't have a taijutsu technique that appears as a ninjutsu. So Kisame wouldn't have to figure out anything to kill Naruto straight off with his sword or drowning.

says who? he did it with hungry ghost. and its the most logical place to strike especially with his frog katas reach. is he going to punch kisame in the ankle? Says every single battle Naruto has even been in. The only reason he switch to a punch against Hungry Path was because he was informed moments before that ninjutsu wouldn't work. As for position, more then likely he would have to aim for Kisame's body considering his height.

hakuthehedgehog

May 10, 2011, 02:27 PM

Naruto usually starts fights with taijutsu, and if he starts the fight with RM, all he can do is taijutsu, so there's not much trouble there.

Against Kakuzu, he used KB to learn his speed, so why wouldn't do it against Kisame?

Also, Naruto can jump to hit Kisame, or my favorite solution, blitz him and tear him in half, since he's able to destroy rocks easily with his chakra hands.

I also need to emind that Samehada can only absorb chakra thaat is near it, so if Naruto tunneds his chakra hands underground or blitzed behind Kisame, there's nothing it can do to stop it.

Rikudou King

May 10, 2011, 02:39 PM

Murdock

May 10, 2011, 02:49 PM

Frog-fu hands down, that is only solution to every anti-chakra based comment here

hakuthehedgehog

May 10, 2011, 02:51 PM

Naruto doesn't start a fight using taijutsu. He starts fights using clone, which would be a horrible idea against Kisame, as each clone he absorbs would give him a proportional boost in chakra. Naruto can jump, but he won't right off the bat and his chakra hands would simply be absorbed by Kisame as fuel. Samehada has shown that it can absorb chakra from some distance and since it can sense chakra, it would know about the chakra hiding under the ground and go for it.

How would Kisame take chakra from the clones? They don't a shroud like Bee's mode, so Kisame would gain nothing from the, and, in the case it does, Naruto gains the information that Samehada sucks chakra and can formulate strategies to counter it.

Samehada needs to be close to the chakra it's eating, and if the hands are underground, Samehada can't eat them, only when they come up IF it's fast enough to follow them, which I doubt.

Also, Samehada has to take chakra in bites, and since Naruto is tapping the entire part of the 9-tails chakra, one or two bites wont take him, and he would be able to rip Kisame's arm off with Samehada and throw them into oblivion, then proceed to make Kisame in a shark fin soup.

jaymizzo

May 10, 2011, 04:15 PM

Naruto doesn't start a fight using taijutsu. He starts fights using clone, which would be a horrible idea against Kisame, as each clone he absorbs would give him a proportional boost in chakra. Naruto can jump, but he won't right off the bat and his chakra hands would simply be absorbed by Kisame as fuel. Samehada has shown that it can absorb chakra from some distance and since it can sense chakra, it would know about the chakra hiding under the ground and go for it.

Where do you get this notion that Kisame can absorb KBs? I mean unless he continuously uses that jutsu of his, i dont see how else he absorbs Ninjutsu

Samehada hasnt shown that it can absorb Ninjutsu, it only sucks Chakra.. I dont think Samehada would be able to absord a rasengan or any jutsu for that matter or else he would have sucked the whole toad stomach since its a ninjutsu too

Rikudou King

May 10, 2011, 04:46 PM

How would Kisame take chakra from the clones? They don't a shroud like Bee's mode, so Kisame would gain nothing from the, and, in the case it does, Naruto gains the information that Samehada sucks chakra and can formulate strategies to counter it. The clones are nothing more then chakra in the form of Naruto. Touching or popping them would allow their chakra to be absorbed. Probably even going close enough to them. In exchange for the info Naruto gains, he would be weakening himself and lessening the time he's able to spend in Rikudou form while Kisame gets stronger.

Samehada needs to be close to the chakra it's eating, and if the hands are underground, Samehada can't eat them, only when they come up IF it's fast enough to follow them, which I doubt. Samehada doesn't have to be that close. It absorbed Kirabi's cloak while it was a couple of few away (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-470/page016.html). Since Samehada can sense chakra, it would know the arms are underground and thus would go after it. And Samehada can move pretty fast (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-471/page003.html).

Also, Samehada has to take chakra in bites, and since Naruto is tapping the entire part of the 9-tails chakra, one or two bites wont take him, and he would be able to rip Kisame's arm off with Samehada and throw them into oblivion, then proceed to make Kisame in a shark fin soup. Samehada can absorb massive amounts of chakra at once. The amount of Kyuubi's chakra Naruto is using is limited (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-519/page011.html), so allowing Kisame to take any of it is a big risk. And Naruto can't use Rikudou form for an extended amount of time. The less chakra Naruto has the short the time he can spend. And even time he goes into Rikudou form, he's losing his own chakra too.

Where do you get this notion that Kisame can absorb KBs? I mean unless he continuously uses that jutsu of his, i dont see how else he absorbs Ninjutsu

Samehada hasnt shown that it can absorb Ninjutsu, it only sucks Chakra.. I dont think Samehada would be able to absord a rasengan or any jutsu for that matter or else he would have sucked the whole toad stomach since its a ninjutsu too Because the clones are nothing more then solid chakra, touching them would end with the chakra that makes them up being absorbed. Samehada was able to absorbed Kirabi's lightning swords, which involve forming chakra and transforming it into lightning. That's a ninjutsu, so there's no reason Samehada can't absorb something like the Rasengan or such.

Also, the Toad Mouth Bind wasn't just a ninjutsu, it was a summoning. There as nothing for Samehada to absorb to get rid of it.

hakuthehedgehog

May 10, 2011, 05:10 PM

huynhlan

May 10, 2011, 05:26 PM

@rikudou king
if shadow clone are nothing more then solid chakra, then how come the sharigan and baykugan can't tell the different? the fact is shadow clone uses to chackra to activate, but once the tech is use the body of the clone are basically real body that only pop if enough damage is inflincted upon them.
And I don't think the sword have the power to eat chackra if it's not leaking out of the user's body for instance in the fight with asuma, he block the sword but it wasn't sucking his chackra, this indicate that unless chackra are leaking out of the body, the sword can't suck it.

Rikudou King

May 10, 2011, 06:34 PM

In the link you posted Samehada was 15 inches away from Kirabi's cloak, and while Naruto has a limited time in RM, its still enough time for him to throw Samehada into oblivion and shred Kisame to pieces, and while Samehada isn't that slow, I doubt it's faster than the chakra arms. It was farther then that. About three feet, since the average human arm is two feet long plus the length of his sword. It won't be enough time when Naruto doesn't know about Kisame and Samehada's abilities, especially when Kisame can trap him in his water dome much faster. Why wouldn't Samehada be able to react to the arms? It's not like they're been shown incredibly fast.

Plus, who's to say Naruto doesn't just go in sage mode because of samehada's chakra eating abilities? Sage Mode wouldn't prevent his chakra from being absorbed.

Also, clones only take as much chakra as Naruto wants, Ebisu clarified this in the beginning of the manga, so Kisame wouldn't be gaining much chakra. I pretty sure Ebisu didn't say such a thing. Anyway, clones do take half of Naruto's chakra. Naruto's chakra is divided evenly between him and the clones. Thus the whole reason the technique is dangerous.

if shadow clone are nothing more then solid chakra, then how come the sharigan and baykugan can't tell the different? the fact is shadow clone uses to chackra to activate, but once the tech is use the body of the clone are basically real body that only pop if enough damage is inflincted upon them.
And I don't think the sword have the power to eat chackra if it's not leaking out of the user's body for instance in the fight with asuma, he block the sword but it wasn't sucking his chackra, this indicate that unless chackra are leaking out of the body, the sword can't suck it. They can't tell them apart because the chakra is split evenly between the real Naruto and the clones. But that doesn't change that the clones are nothing more then chakra in a solid form, like the Bijuu cloak. Physical contact would turn them back into chakra and they'll be absorbed.

MonsterEnvy

May 10, 2011, 06:44 PM

another thing Naruto does not know that Samehada can adsorb his chakra at the start of this fight

and once again he is not going to kill Kisame in one hit in Rikudo mode and if he misses or does not kill him in one hit he will run into a tree or somthing and hurt himself allowing kisame an easy win

I don't even know why Im defending Kisame I know Naruto is going to win in the end

Lelo

May 10, 2011, 06:46 PM

Naruto wouldn't know any of Kisame's techniques or what Samehada can do, so he would have to waste time figuring all that out before he could come up with a plan to kill Kisame. Meanwhile, Kisame doesn't have to know what Naruto can do to kill him.

He should know his water techs from fighting someone simlar to Kisame like Zabuza and maybe he he could learn some stuff from Kakashi, Gai and Bee. The only threat I see is Samehada sucking his chakra, which will make his Kyuubi chakra useless, but if he does that while Naruto's in Sage mode he'll turn to stone. And if Naruto has to waste time figuring out Kisame, then he'll do it using Kage Bunshins, like he always does.

bhasty

May 10, 2011, 07:36 PM

Changing your chakra into an element and forming it around something is basically a ninjutsu. We know so because Sasuke's Chidori Sword is considered a ninjutsu and that's all it really is, lightning chakra around a sword. .

No it's not.. look here (http://www.mangareader.net/93-321-6/naruto/chapter-316.html).. Does yamato's earth and water chakra is a jutsu..? or it's just his chakra affinity..? Bee's lightning sword is the same as asuma's chakra blade.. Asuma is just manipulating his wind chakra in his blade.. so it must be the same as bee's sword.. Bee must be manipulating his lightning chakra to his sword..

Well, sasuke's chidori sword is indeed a jutsu.. why.? because the chidori is a jutsu.. He just fused his chidori jutsu to his sword.. Bee's lightning sword is deffirent from sasuke's chidori sword..

M3J

May 10, 2011, 07:42 PM

By the time he does figure it out, it'll be too late.

Not necessarily. Now that Naruto knows that the experience his bunshins gain goes back to him, Naruto can use that to his advantage like he did against Kakuzu. He do what Kakashi does (according to Chaoza anyway after he arrived to back up Kakashi against Deva) and send out his clone to do "reconnaissance" on Kisame. In two fights we saw him in... well, he was mostly going heads on against Pain, but he had information from the start. Here, Naruto would likely use his bunshins to help him learn about Kisame.

Plus, Naruto can actually afford to lose some chakra to Kisame since his chakra pool is high (though apparently nothing compared to Kisame's). With Kyuubi's chakra his pool goes up quite a bit, so as long as he doesn't needlessly squander chakra like he used to in Part I, he should be able to last a lot longer than given credit for. Even if Naruto lacks power against Kisame, he makes up for it in tenacity and cleverness.

Naruto doesn't start a fight using taijutsu. He starts fights using clone, which would be a horrible idea against Kisame, as each clone he absorbs would give him a proportional boost in chakra. Naruto can jump, but he won't right off the bat and his chakra hands would simply be absorbed by Kisame as fuel. Samehada has shown that it can absorb chakra from some distance and since it can sense chakra, it would know about the chakra hiding under the ground and go for it.

He uses his clones better and smarter than he used to, so it won't be that much of a waste in my opinion. It'll help him learn about Kisame's power and how to best counter it, even if it may not give him complete info. He can summon a lot of clones and even with them do intense, chakra-draining training like when he was mastering his fuuton.

Also, whoever says Naruto can grab Kisame's sword, he can't really use or keep it as it'd try to go back to Kisame. It'd spike Naruto's hand and then run back to Kisame... although Naruto was able to take a kunai stab to the hand, he expected it whereas he'd most likely be shocked at Samehada's action and let go of it. This is most likely what'll happen the first time anyway, though maybe not the second time.

jaymizzo

May 10, 2011, 07:55 PM

Because the clones are nothing more then solid chakra, touching them would end with the chakra that makes them up being absorbed. Samehada was able to absorbed Kirabi's lightning swords, which involve forming chakra and transforming it into lightning. That's a ninjutsu, so there's no reason Samehada can't absorb something like the Rasengan or such.

Also, the Toad Mouth Bind wasn't just a ninjutsu, it was a summoning. There as nothing for Samehada to absorb to get rid of it.

As someone has already metioned to you, adding your chakra affinity into a weapon is not a jutsu. So what Samehada absorbed wasnt a jutsu, but chakra leaked into a blade.

We've only seen samehada absorb chakra from someone, and never from a jutsu, which leads me to believe that it cannot do such a thing.

Well think of it this way, while applying your own logic, aslong as it has chakra involved, Samehada can absorb it, which doesnt explain why it didnt absorb the toad stomach with was made of chakra.

ninjabot

May 10, 2011, 08:16 PM

Why would Kisame need to absorb a bunshin when one blow is enough to destroy it? Not only does Kisame not need Samehada for any of his most deadly techniques, but he's already outrageously strong prior to absorbing any chakra from anyone. How many people could tank a headbutt from Bee without passing out from a concussion?http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v50/c470/16.html

Granted his chakra was taken before the headbutt hit, but Bee's been shown to be powerful without his shroud (tanking a kick to his throat without even moving when Sasuke kicked him). Base Naruto getting Samehada from Kisame wouldn't be possible with taijutus alone because he just doesn't have the stopping power.

With Sage Mode it's possible, but if Samehada alone can run as fast as it did when Kisamehada was running from Gai and Bee, then coming back to where Kisame is to continue the fight is believable. Especially since he'll (she'll?) be devouring any clones in it's path on the way, aswell as Kisame running to get his sword back.

As for him absorbing chakra from jutsu, Daikoudan does just that according to him, so the clones would indeed be absorbed because they're both chakra, and jutsu. Samehada is also a viable mid ranged weapon http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v50/c470/12.html So stretching the handle would help in swiping all around him and taking clones down, or simply swinging the sword to absorb any incoming Rasengan coming around him.

EDIT: Oh! Completely forgot about this. His speed is above average even without having stolen chakra because he can fire a Suikodan and piggyback it, turning him into a watery battering ram.http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c506/6.html

kelv015

May 10, 2011, 08:55 PM

EDIT: Oh! Completely forgot about this. His speed is above average even without having stolen chakra because he can fire a Suikodan and piggyback it, turning him into a watery battering ram.http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c506/6.html

Wrong, Kisame did steal some chakra from Bee and that other Konoha dude accompanying Guy sensei before that (albeit he didn't steal a lot, but it still was something):
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c506/4.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c506/5.html
Plus, we already know how fast Kisame can move IN WATER...

LnDRash

May 10, 2011, 09:11 PM

The chakra he has stolen from Bee and Aoba was used to replenish his body. After spending weeks inside Samehada he was emaciated like Nagato, so its even questionable if the chakra he has stolen was enough to bring him back too 100%.

ninjabot

May 10, 2011, 09:12 PM

@kelv015:Fine, but he's not in his fused form, thus he's not at bijuu levels. He also used the chakra to restore him to base as far as I can tell (or to regenerate the injuries from being punched by Naruto.) Either way he wasn't at any super high level of speed yet.

As for knowing he's faster in water, you were referring to him swimming in water in his shark form. I'm referring to him being fired like a rocket inside of a jutsu, not swimming through actual water.

JutsuJuken

May 10, 2011, 09:14 PM

Naruto in Flash Mode stomps Kisame. At least that's kinda what he did in the manga that one time.

MonsterEnvy

May 10, 2011, 10:25 PM

Naruto in Flash Mode stomps Kisame. At least that's kinda what he did in the manga that one time.

Then he got stuck in a wall and broke his ankle while Kisame recovered immeditly and if it was not for the fact that Bee and Yamato were in the room he would have just stayed and knocked Naruto out or in this match killed him
[hr]

@kelv015:Fine, but he's not in his fused form, thus he's not at bijuu levels. He also used the chakra to restore him to base as far as I can tell (or to regenerate the injuries from being punched by Naruto.) Either way he wasn't at any super high level of speed yet.

As for knowing he's faster in water, you were referring to him swimming in water in his shark form. I'm referring to him being fired like a rocket inside of a jutsu, not swimming through actual water.

actully his chakra was huge even with out his fused form 30% was about the same as Naruto who has a huge chakra pool Samehada just makes it so he never can run out of chakra

ninjabot

May 11, 2011, 12:04 AM

Well, yeah. I know he has huge chakra before that. I was just pointing out that he doesn't need Samehada to move fast or be deadly. Infact, the deadliest techniques he's shown us was without the aid of his sword.

More proof of his herculean strength? http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v54/c508/2.html

Even beaten to within an inch of his life AND having his chakra subdued by Mokuton Kisame manage to burst free with sheer willpower. Losing Samehada would be an inconvenience, sure. But enough to guarantee victory? I doubt it.

El Samurai Guapo

May 11, 2011, 12:38 AM

Naruto beats the tail-less bijuu.

Hauradrims3

May 11, 2011, 12:57 AM

Bee was keeping from kisame just fine in the water dome. And that is while carrying both the racoon and that other guy

Actually, Sabu noted that Kisame was closing in on him so he was going to get caught regardless. And if your swimming with the same speed as him ur still going to be in the water dome and eventually ur going to suffocate. So whether or not he can keep up with him is irrelevant.

When I asked what naruto can do to counter the water dome I was not asking how he was going to deal with it if he gets caught, because if that happens its done, but how hes going to damage kisame through it.

If kisame is inside his water dome and naruto outside what can naruto do? Plz keep in mind that kisame is charging full speed at him with the water dome moving with him while naruto tries to figure out how to defeat it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How would Naruto deal with the water dome? With his jutsu repertoire, I cant figure this one out without claiming anything silly.

I think he is from few people, who can actually deal with it.

I see him blowing up the waterdome simply with his chakra, or with rasen-shuriken.

xXan

May 11, 2011, 01:17 AM

Actually, Sabu noted that Kisame was closing in on him so he was going to get caught regardless. And if your swimming with the same speed as him ur still going to be in the water dome and eventually ur going to suffocate. So whether or not he can keep up with him is irrelevant.

When I asked what naruto can do to counter the water dome I was not asking how he was going to deal with it if he gets caught, because if that happens its done, but how hes going to damage kisame through it.

If kisame is inside his water dome and naruto outside what can naruto do? Plz keep in mind that kisame is charging full speed at him with the water dome moving with him while naruto tries to figure out how to defeat it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Considering Naruto get's out and he will all he has to do is keep out of range of the moving water dome (this is easy as in RM he is extremely fast) and leave Kisame to drop from exhaustion. Its imposible that maintaining that water dome is not draining Kisame at a good enough rate. Naruto running away would use way less chakra then Kisame swiming trough that thing and moving the water dome.
Kisame is going to be forced to cancel the tech.

If you whant i can give you ways on how Naruto get's out to(i got 3 of them that would make the water dome irrelevant).

licentious1

May 11, 2011, 01:48 AM

In a thread about Sasuke vs Akatsuki I recall ranking Sasuke beating Kisame, but only more than Kiame beats Sasuke. That is, it would be a close hard fought battle regardless of who wins. I extend that same notion to Naruto. Naruto would win most of the time, but it would always be a hard fought battle. I say Naruto would win 60-75% of the time vs Kisame.

As an aside, if Samehada loved the 8-tail chakra imagine how much more it would love the 9-tails chakra.

LnDRash

May 11, 2011, 01:50 AM

^Since when belong foxes to the favorite meals of a shark... ?

Rikudou King

May 11, 2011, 02:13 AM

He should know his water techs from fighting someone simlar to Kisame like Zabuza and maybe he he could learn some stuff from Kakashi, Gai and Bee. The only threat I see is Samehada sucking his chakra, which will make his Kyuubi chakra useless, but if he does that while Naruto's in Sage mode he'll turn to stone. And if Naruto has to waste time figuring out Kisame, then he'll do it using Kage Bunshins, like he always does. These battles begin with a completely clear slate, meaning Naruto won't know anything about Kisame except the general knowledge that he's a swordsmen from Kiri and uses water techniques. Kisame won't turn to stone because he has more chakra then Naruto does, thus it would take a long time for him to absorb enough natural energy to outbalance his own chakra. Naruto would be killed before that time. And using clones is hardly a good thing here.

No it's not.. look here (http://www.mangareader.net/93-321-6/naruto/chapter-316.html).. Does yamato's earth and water chakra is a jutsu..? or it's just his chakra affinity..? Bee's lightning sword is the same as asuma's chakra blade.. Asuma is just manipulating his wind chakra in his blade.. so it must be the same as bee's sword.. Bee must be manipulating his lightning chakra to his sword..

Well, sasuke's chidori sword is indeed a jutsu.. why.? because the chidori is a jutsu.. He just fused his chidori jutsu to his sword.. Bee's lightning sword is deffirent from sasuke's chidori sword.. You mean is growing trees a ninjutsu? Yeah, it is (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-513/page014.html). And no, what Kirabi did isn't any different from what Sasuke did. Both of them involve transforming their chakra into lightning nature and wrapping it around a weapon. Heck, Chidori isn't much different either, as it just involves wrapping the chakra around the hand. Now, unless you can prove some proof where nature and shape manipulating chakra isn't considered a ninjutsu...

Not necessarily. Now that Naruto knows that the experience his bunshins gain goes back to him, Naruto can use that to his advantage like he did against Kakuzu. He do what Kakashi does (according to Chaoza anyway after he arrived to back up Kakashi against Deva) and send out his clone to do "reconnaissance" on Kisame. In two fights we saw him in... well, he was mostly going heads on against Pain, but he had information from the start. Here, Naruto would likely use his bunshins to help him learn about Kisame.

Plus, Naruto can actually afford to lose some chakra to Kisame since his chakra pool is high (though apparently nothing compared to Kisame's). With Kyuubi's chakra his pool goes up quite a bit, so as long as he doesn't needlessly squander chakra like he used to in Part I, he should be able to last a lot longer than given credit for. Even if Naruto lacks power against Kisame, he makes up for it in tenacity and cleverness. In this situation though, he's up against an opponent that can also benefit from his clones. And his usage against Kakuzu isn't really a great example considering the trouble Naruto had against Kakuzu on his own. Yeah Naruto will gain info on Kisame, but the info would only be helpful if he can come up with a counter and Kisame doesn't pull something entirely new out. Kisame actually has quite a collection of tricks available to him that can keep Naruto in the dark and on his toes. Beginning with his normal swordsmanship and the chakra absorbing ability of Samehada, he can pull off creating a lake to give himself an advantage along with his shark summonings and water clones that turn into water prisons, not to mention his water dome and ability to fuse with Samehada.

Naruto may be able to afford some lost of his chakra, but in this battle it's not just gonna be "some" chakra. Naruto is up against someone who can actually stall him out in the area of chakra. With both Kisame and the Kyuubi stealing his chakra every chance they get, Naruto's normal wasteful tactics are just as dangerous to him as Kisame is.

He uses his clones better and smarter than he used to, so it won't be that much of a waste in my opinion. It'll help him learn about Kisame's power and how to best counter it, even if it may not give him complete info. He can summon a lot of clones and even with them do intense, chakra-draining training like when he was mastering his fuuton. While Naruto does use his clone better, that doesn't change the fact that as he's making fewer of them, they proportionally would give Kisame a good chunk of Naruto's chakra if they were absorbed. Even if they were just destroyed, the chakra lost would still be trouble. Regardless, as Naruto is attempting to figure out Kisame's abilities, nothing would be stopping Kisame from killing Naruto during this period.

As someone has already metioned to you, adding your chakra affinity into a weapon is not a jutsu. So what Samehada absorbed wasnt a jutsu, but chakra leaked into a blade.

We've only seen samehada absorb chakra from someone, and never from a jutsu, which leads me to believe that it cannot do such a thing.

Well think of it this way, while applying your own logic, aslong as it has chakra involved, Samehada can absorb it, which doesnt explain why it didnt absorb the toad stomach with was made of chakra. Nature and shape manipulation makes it's a ninjutsu. As for that being all we have seen Samehada absorb, that's because in the few battles we have seen Kisame in, his opponents have specialized and used taijutsu. Kisame has never had an extended fight against someone who uses ninjutsu, which actually says alot. And the toad throat wasn't made of chakra, thus there was nothing to absorb. Jiraiya summoned the actual toad esophagus over the surrounding area.

xXan

May 11, 2011, 02:33 AM

Well to be fair he could probably absorb a rasengan as that is made out of chakra but if someone uses doton to create a huge rock and trow it at him he would probably not be able to absorb that:P
I also don't belive he can absorb a FRS. A FRS is made out of a ton of nature chakra (2 of them and Naruto is out of sage mode. well close to).

To asume that Samehada can absorb something on FRS level would be a huge leap of faith for me as the damn thing never showed the ability to absorb even simple jutsus (and i don't mean chakra manipulations here). Personaly i belive we just don't have enough information on Samehada and i am not going to use this "excuse" to belive it had absorb FRS(a part of it probably but no ALL of it).

Rikudou King

May 11, 2011, 02:47 AM

Why would it be a leap of faith? We already seen Samehada absorb massive amounts of chakra at a single time. The FRS can't have that much, so it should be simpler.

xXan

May 11, 2011, 02:55 AM

Why would it be a leap of faith? We already seen Samehada absorb massive amounts of chakra at a single time. The FRS can't have that much, so it should be simpler.

Masive raw chakra yes that is true. The FRS is a masive ball of super chakra(sage chakra) that is spinning, insanely compresed, insanely controled by Naruto even at a distance ( to keep it in that form) and infused with wind chakra. Its not the same thing. It has some similarities with Bee's chakra shield but its not the same thing. Samehada never showed the ability to absorb complicated super S ranked jutsus. Also Samehada never showed the ability to absorb masive amounts of chakra that is manipulated in a way, like wind, water, lighting etc.

Just because i can eat a cup of soup does not mean i can eat it when its steaming hot.

Edit: This is not canon and does not apply to this tournament BUT i want to state it. In one of the movies there was a dude that had the ability to absorb jutsus, gues what he was not able to absorb :P A Naruto coming down from the sky with a FRS in his hand (the one that you can't trow). I do belive Kishi has SOME involvements with those movies :P

bhasty

May 11, 2011, 03:07 AM

You mean is growing trees a ninjutsu? Yeah, it is (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-513/page014.html). And no, what Kirabi did isn't any different from what Sasuke did. Both of them involve transforming their chakra into lightning nature and wrapping it around a weapon. Heck, Chidori isn't much different either, as it just involves wrapping the chakra around the hand. Now, unless you can prove some proof where nature and shape manipulating chakra isn't considered a ninjutsu...

Nature and shape manipulation makes it's a ninjutsu. As for that being all we have seen Samehada absorb, that's because in the few battles we have seen Kisame in, his opponents have specialized and used taijutsu. Kisame has never had an extended fight against someone who uses ninjutsu, which actually says alot. And the toad throat wasn't made of chakra, thus there was nothing to absorb. Jiraiya summoned the actual toad esophagus over the surrounding area.

No.. look here (http://www.mangareader.net/93-322-14/naruto/chapter-317.html).. imagine.. blade of asuma as bee's sword.. wind chakra of asuma as bee's lightning chakra.. So you think manipulating of chakra is a jutsu..? i don't think so..
and i think the manga never shown that samehada/kisame has the power to absorb a technique/ninjutsu like fat pain.. if yes, then can you show the proof..? if not, then your assuming this stuff..

Rikudou King

May 11, 2011, 03:11 AM

Masive raw chakra yes that is true. The FRS is a masive ball of super chakra(sage chakra) that is spinning, insanely compresed, insanely controled by Naruto even at a distance ( to keep it in that form) and infused with wind chakra. Its not the same thing. It has some similarities with Bee's chakra shield but its not the same thing. Samehada never showed the ability to absorb complicated super S ranked jutsus. Also Samehada never showed the ability to absorb masive amounts of chakra that is manipulated in a way, like wind, water, lighting etc.

Just because i can eat a cup of soup does not mean i can eat it when its steaming hot.

Edit: This is not canon and does not apply to this tournament BUT i want to state it. In one of the movies there was a dude that had the ability to absorb jutsus, gues what he was not able to absorb :P A Naruto coming down from the sky with a FRS in his hand (the one that you can't trow). I do belive Kishi has SOME involvements with those movies :P Samehada has absorbed massive chakra and it has absorbed chakra manipulated into lightning. We know that the FRS itself can be absorbed with no problems because we saw Hungry Path do so. So while we haven't seen Samehada do something on that level, there's nothing showing that it's not possible.

No.. look here (http://www.mangareader.net/93-322-14/naruto/chapter-317.html).. imagine.. blade of asuma as bee's sword.. wind chakra of asuma as bee's lightning chakra.. So you think manipulating of chakra is a jutsu..? i don't think so..
and i think the manga never shown that samehada/kisame has the power to absorb a technique/ninjutsu like fat pain.. if yes, then can you show the proof..? if not, then your assuming this stuff.. Manipulating chakra is the base for ninjutsu. Sasuke does the same when he uses his Chidori sword (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-411/page018.html). Do I need to point out that the Rasengan is simply chakra shaped in a spinning ball? I showed where Samehada absorbed a ninjutsu. If you disagree, then prove the evidence that states changing the nature and shape of chakra doesn't make it a ninjutsu, otherwise you're disagreeing with the manga itself.

xXan

May 11, 2011, 03:22 AM

Samehada has absorbed massive chakra and it has absorbed chakra manipulated into lightning. We know that the FRS itself can be absorbed with no problems because we saw Hungry Path do so. So while we haven't seen Samehada do something on that level, there's nothing showing that it's not possible.

What Fat Pein was able to do is irrelevant. That guy had the rinnegan, the very thing that created Ninjutsu, the very thing that was able to split the 10 tails and create 9,8 etc tails, create the moon in the sky. Nagato was able to reproduce some of that power. There is no evidence in hell the Samehada has the same power of the rinnegan absorbing thing.

We also got to see it aborb only raw chanka in HUGE quantities, there is no evidence it can do that to manipulated chakra.

So while we haven't seen Samehada do something on that level, there's nothing showing that it's not possible.

That is not how it works. There is nothing showing that God does not exists but most people will need evidence to accept his existence.

You do have grounds for what you are asuming but personaly i am not buying it. Absorbing FRS and in a instant(or close to) is more then i can accept.

Rikudou King

May 11, 2011, 03:32 AM

What Fat Pein was able to do is irrelevant. That guy had the rinnegan, the very thing that created Ninjutsu, the very thing that was able to split the 10 tails and create 9,8 etc tails, create the moon in the sky. Nagato was able to reproduce some of that power. There is no evidence in hell the Samehada has the same power of the rinnegan absorbing thing.

We also got to see it aborb only raw chanka in HUGE quantities, there is no evidence it can do that to manipulated chakra.

That is not how it works. There is nothing showing that God does not exists but most people will need evidence to accept his existence.

You do have ground for what you are asuming but personaly i am not buying it. Absorbing FRS and in a instances is more then i can accept. Both Hungry Path and Samehada absorb chakra. There's nothing more to it then that. it's not like it's taking in ninjutsus in a completely different way. So what Hungry Path did is applicable for Samehada.

There is no difference between manipulated chakra and raw chakra other then how it's used. There's no difference that would effect the ability to absorb one and not the other. Samehada's ability is chakra absorption, not chakra absorption of non manipulated chakra. Heck, it's not even like the Jinchuuriki cloak isn't manipulated in it's own way. The issue isn't proving Samehada can do it, because we have enough pieces of evidence to conclude it can, the issue is why it wouldn't be able to do so when there's nothing to prevent it from doing so.

ninjabot

May 11, 2011, 03:56 AM

Masive raw chakra yes that is true. The FRS is a masive ball of super chakra(sage chakra) that is spinning, insanely compresed, insanely controled by Naruto even at a distance ( to keep it in that form) and infused with wind chakra. Its not the same thing. It has some similarities with Bee's chakra shield but its not the same thing. Samehada never showed the ability to absorb complicated super S ranked jutsus. Also Samehada never showed the ability to absorb masive amounts of chakra that is manipulated in a way, like wind, water, lighting etc.

That's not enough difference for it to not be absorbed by Samehada, especially since the Vibrato knife was absorbed and it is far more similar to FRS than the chakra shroud. The FRS can't possibly have more chakra in it than a 6 tail chakra shroud, so it won't avoid being absorbed thanks to it's power. As for it spinning, it doesn't matter if that spinning jutsu is still colliding with Samehada. One of those knives didn't even touch Samehada, it flew by and the chakra was absorbed out of it as it continued moving. http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v50/c470/16.html Likewise, as for the elemental nature, we have seen manipulated chakra absorbed. It literally absorbed electricity, as that's the type of chakra that coats the Vibrato knife (lightning). If it can absorb lightning, fire won't be any problem. Water either, provided it's a ninjutsu and not just surrounding water being manipulated. Ditto for earth. Most likely.

Just because i can eat a cup of soup does not mean i can eat it when its steaming hot.

Ofcourse you can. Eating is the consumption of food through the mouth to gain nutrients and quell hunger. If you scald your tongue and esophogus in the process, it doesn't change the fact that you still ate the soup. You made the soup disappear. You removed it. I get what you meant, but that analogy doesn't really work.

xXan

May 11, 2011, 04:34 AM

Considering that not even Fat Pein can absorb a FRS or a ultimate rasengan before it smashes him there is no way in hell Samehada can.

Both Hungry Path and Samehada absorb chakra. There's nothing more to it then that. it's not like it's taking in ninjutsus in a completely different way. So what Hungry Path did is applicable for Samehada.

Actualy it is. Fat Pein needs to put up a shield, stop the tech from hitting him and THEN absorb the jutsu:
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-433-page-10.html
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-433-page-11.html

Samehada never displayed this ability. If you guys are going to state here that Samehada can absorb it faster then Pein himself i am defenetly not going to buy it.

Ultimate rasengan:
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-377-page-12.html
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-377-page-13.html

He shields himself and THEN absorbs it. This would defenetly kill Kisame before Samehada can do shit (unless you belive the damn thing is better then the Rinnegan absorbing power).

You guys are asuming absorbing raw chakra and raiton chakra off a pencil = absorbing FRS... Makes no sense to me. Not even Pein can absorb it FAST, it takes time even for him but he has the shield to protect him up to the moment the jutsu is absorbed.

Oh and ninjabot. Consuming something that hot can even kill you, destroying your digestive system is very possible. The fact that you will end up in the hospital, puke like crazy and so on its a given. But anyway you got what i wanted to state by that. I stated boiling hot and at that temperature your stomach is going to be in big trouble lol.

ninjabot

May 11, 2011, 04:44 AM

Where'd you get this "too fast for Hungry Ghost to absorb" nonsense from? He was on the ground with a broken neck. He was incapable of absorbing that FRS the others tried to dodge.http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v46/c432/5.html

^That's is foot on the far right in the middle panel.

Likwise, in the scans where he actually does absorb the FRS, it's not necessarily a barrier so much as it's the diameter in which the absorbtion can be applied. It's not like he's putting up an actual impenetrable wall. If it were a genuine barrier it wouldn't be vulnerable to taijutsu. All that he requires to prepare to absorb a jutsu is to place himself infront of the jutsu, and activate his absorbing power.

That's literally the exact same damn thing Samehada does.

xXan

May 11, 2011, 04:57 AM

@ninjabot

Where'd you get this "too fast for Hungry Ghost to absorb" nonsense from? He was on the ground with a broken neck. He was incapable of absorbing that FRS the others tried to dodge.http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v46/c432/5.html

^That's is foot on the far right in the middle panel.

I stated that even he needs to put up a shield to buy him time to absorb it. He can't absorb it if there is no shield to stop the damn thing. That is what i ment by TO FAST. If there is no shield to buy fat boy time to absorb it then the Rasengan would impact with his head and kill him before the absorbtion thing is completed.

Likwise, in the scans where he actually does absorb the FRS, it's not necessarily a barrier so much as it's the diameter in which the absorbtion can be applied. It's not like he's putting up an actual impenetrable wall. If it were a genuine barrier it wouldn't be vulnerable to taijutsu. All that he requires to prepare to absorb a jutsu is to place himself infront of the jutsu, and activate his absorbing power.

That's literally the exact same damn thing Samehada does.

You can clerly see in more then 1 panel that the FRS is stopped there by that shield. Its not like the FRS is traveling to his face in a normal way and he absorbs it faster then the FRS is traveling (or at the same speed). Also its obvious that shield protects you only from ninjutsu. Its the same thing with Byakuya in Bleach where he has a hight level barrier that can stop only kido(jutsu). The fact that it only stops jutsus and not taijutsu is not relevant. Fat guy has a shield that protects and stops jutsus.

So not even Pein can absorb a FRS faster then it get's to fat realm if it does not use a shield to stop the FRS in midair. From this we can understant that Samehada will not have the time to absorb the jutsu before it impacts with Kisame as it does not have a way to stop it in midair like Pein.

DarkPrinceRevan

May 11, 2011, 06:01 AM

i think in any case can samehada absorb an frs faster than it can cut, even when samehada absorbed killerbee's lariat it pierced through and blow kisames chest open.

and if naruto were to do a shadow shuriken frs as well then samehada could be overwhelmed and kisame could lose his legs in the process

Centrelink

May 11, 2011, 06:25 AM

If I was to judge it, I would think the only thing in Kisami's corner would be his water dome.

But judging how previous abilities interact I would assume a Rassengan would turn the water sphere into a levitating tornado.

bhasty

May 11, 2011, 06:26 AM

Manipulating chakra is the base for ninjutsu. Sasuke does the same when he uses his Chidori sword (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-411/page018.html). Do I need to point out that the Rasengan is simply chakra shaped in a spinning ball? I showed where Samehada absorbed a ninjutsu. If you disagree, then prove the evidence that states changing the nature and shape of chakra doesn't make it a ninjutsu, otherwise you're disagreeing with the manga itself.

But the proof you've shown is irrilevant.. pencil/sword with lightning is not really a jutsu.. From your logic, manipulating chakra is the base for ninjutsu but not a ninjutsu itself..

Read my link above.. asuma clearly stated that manipulating is not really a ninjutsu..

Sasuke's sword is fused with his chidori.. and chidori is a jutsu...so sasuke's chidori sword is deffirent from bee's lightning sword/pencil..

You've never shown some proof that samehada absorbed a ninjutsu but it's just a lightning sword/pencil.. What i mean about a real proof is that samehada really absorb a ninjutsu (like katon, rasengan, suiton). how come i disagreeing the manga if you're not even link your own manga proof about manipulating a chakra is indeed a ninjutsu..

Kisame/samehada was just absorbing their oponents chakra.. which means it's unharmful chakra.. a chakra that's inside of their oponents body.. a visible chakra.. But ninjutsu is different from ordinary chakra.. it was a harmful form of chakra.. A ninjutsu that base from chakra is far more powerful/harmful than ordinary chakra..

PS .. even if kisame/samehada can absorb their oponents chakra but it doesn't mean they can also absorb their oponents ninjutsu..
Example..
Even if kisame/samehada can absorb a gun powder, but it doesn't mean they can also absorb the gun powder inside of a grenade..

All ninjutsu are base from chakra..
All grenade are base from gun powder.

You can't create a ninjutsu without a chakra.
You can't also create a grenade without a gun powder..

So do you think kisame/samehada who can absorb a gun powder can also absorb the grenade.? i don't think so..

ninjabot

May 11, 2011, 06:45 AM

@ninjabot

I stated that even he needs to put up a shield to buy him time to absorb it. He can't absorb it if there is no shield to stop the damn thing. That is what i ment by TO FAST. If there is no shield to buy fat boy time to absorb it then the Rasengan would impact with his head and kill him before the absorbtion thing is completed.

And I'm saying it isdoesn't. There was no barrier created when he absorbed natural energy from Naruto, which is proof him getting hit by a jutsu without him erecting that dome first won't interfere with his absorbtion.

The dome you're seeing is not some shield, it's simply his absorbing jutsu expanded to a size that it can absorb the entire jutsu that's hitting him. He's not stopping the jutsu first, he's simply absorbing it.

You can clerly see in more then 1 panel that the FRS is stopped there by that shield. Its not like the FRS is traveling to his face in a normal way and he absorbs it faster then the FRS is traveling (or at the same speed). Also its obvious that shield protects you only from ninjutsu. Its the same thing with Byakuya in Bleach where he has a hight level barrier that can stop only kido(jutsu). The fact that it only stops jutsus and not taijutsu is not relevant. Fat guy has a shield that protects and stops jutsus.

No, you don't. It's still spinning even as the chakra is being absorbed. You think it stopped because you don't see Hungry Ghost being pushed back or actually touching the jutsu. The reason you don't see that is because the jutsu is being broken down as it approaches him.

It's like saying Minato's barrier stops things that hit it, when in actuality it teleports away. He didn't stop it so that he could teleport it away, you simply see the bijuu blast shrink because it's a gradual occurence. It wasn't blocked, it was transferred at a rate that diminished the attack before it could touch him (part of it inside the spacetime barrier, part of it outside).

BTW, it was never confirmed that Danku can't block solid attacks, or that it blocks kidou alone (but that it dispels kidou, which is a whole 'nother thing entirely).

So not even Pein can absorb a FRS faster then it get's to fat realm if it does not use a shield to stop the FRS in midair. From this we can understant that Samehada will not have the time to absorb the jutsu before it impacts with Kisame as it does not have a way to stop it in midair like Pein.

I still can't understand how you could make that massive jump to link these two different occurences. We haven't seen Hungry Ghost absorb anything on the scale of what Samehada has absorbed so we can't say that something he couldn't absorb, can't be absorbed by Samehada. Spinning or not, there's not enough chakra in an FRS that it can be considered equal to 6 or 7 tails worth of bijuu chakra.

xXan

May 11, 2011, 07:18 AM

@ ninjabot

Sry but considering the FRS is showed in the same place over several panels yes i can conclude its stoping ... Also the shield is way bigger the the FRS so its not him extending his area of influence. Absorbing Natural energy =/= absorbing a jutsu. The simple fact that Fat Boy has no need to create a barrier to absorb chakra from naruto but he has to do that to absorb a jutsu should tell you something .... This is actualy very good evidence that the shield is needed and it stops the FRS.

Notice that the panels are not a depicting a nano-second or whatever, in the first one Deva is on the groung but then as the FRS is absorbed he is getting up. The FRS stoped this is not even up for debate.

The best proof that he frst stops stuff its in the first link with the ultimate rasengan, look at Pein's hands ...He is stoping it and then absorbing it...

This was not about IF he can absorb it but can he absorb it in time considering Pein had to first stop it?

Now Minato's barrier acts as a 2 way door, things go in and they come out on the other side, we can clearly see it go in and not stoping like the FRS and ultimate rasengan. It is diferent from what we can see from FRS hitting the barrier.

Also it was clearly stated that Danku can stop hado up to #89. Note that he states hado and not any attack.

Edit: even the anime version clearly shows the FRS stoping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMOC-WbBz4k&feature=related

Nath Uchiha

May 11, 2011, 10:19 AM

Both Hungry Path and Samehada absorb chakra. There's nothing more to it then that. it's not like it's taking in ninjutsus in a completely different way. So what Hungry Path did is applicable for Samehada.

There is no difference between manipulated chakra and raw chakra other then how it's used. There's no difference that would effect the ability to absorb one and not the other. Samehada's ability is chakra absorption, not chakra absorption of non manipulated chakra. Heck, it's not even like the Jinchuuriki cloak isn't manipulated in it's own way. The issue isn't proving Samehada can do it, because we have enough pieces of evidence to conclude it can, the issue is why it wouldn't be able to do so when there's nothing to prevent it from doing so.

Thank you, seems like this discussion keeps coming back to Samehade. I would also add as I did earlier, that Samehade converts the absorbed chakra to stamina, unlike Preta, so the whole ''Samehade will turn to stone as its overpowered'' thing is wrong.

caellwin

May 11, 2011, 10:53 AM

lets get this out of the way.
Samehada can absorb chakra, FRS is made of sage chakra
anything living that absorbs sage chakra turns to stone if they don't properly mediate.
samehada has shown no ability to meditate
samehada turns to stone.
If kisame takes in sage chakra he also turns to stone

i honestly dont seee how this is so difficult to grasp
Naruto in sage made is an auto win against Kisame, Thrown FRS is an auto win, RM is likely an auto win unless naruto breaks his leg under his own power.

So for kisame to win naruto can only stay in his regular normal form.

MonsterEnvy

May 11, 2011, 11:56 AM

chilibun

May 11, 2011, 12:13 PM

lets get this out of the way.
Samehada can absorb chakra, FRS is made of sage chakra
anything living that absorbs sage chakra turns to stone if they don't properly mediate.
samehada has shown no ability to meditate
samehada turns to stone.
If kisame takes in sage chakra he also turns to stone

Ugh, why do I have to keep disproving this. People need to read earlier posts. Eating balanced sage chakra would not turn Samehada into stone. You only turn to stone when you have too much natural energy vs physical and spiritual. For samehada to turn to stone, he would have to eat bad sage chakra, but Naruto would turn to stone first if he decides to mold bad sage chakra.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-415-15/naruto/chapter-410.html

LnDRash

May 11, 2011, 12:29 PM

Ugh, why do I have to keep disproving this.

Don't even try, it has no sense. I've said the same thing on the first few pages but people will simply skip or ignore it. Kisame has already lost this battle anyway because the majority of people comes to this thread thinking something like...

Naruto beats the tail-less bijuu.

...and hit the Naruto vote without putting any thought into it. -.-

Rikudou King

May 11, 2011, 12:47 PM

Considering that not even Fat Pein can absorb a FRS or a ultimate rasengan before it smashes him there is no way in hell Samehada can.

Actualy it is. Fat Pein needs to put up a shield, stop the tech from hitting him and THEN absorb the jutsu:
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-433-page-10.html
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-433-page-11.html

Samehada never displayed this ability. If you guys are going to state here that Samehada can absorb it faster then Pein himself i am defenetly not going to buy it.

Ultimate rasengan:
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-377-page-12.html
http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-377-page-13.html

He shields himself and THEN absorbs it. This would defenetly kill Kisame before Samehada can do shit (unless you belive the damn thing is better then the Rinnegan absorbing power).

You guys are asuming absorbing raw chakra and raiton chakra off a pencil = absorbing FRS... Makes no sense to me. Not even Pein can absorb it FAST, it takes time even for him but he has the shield to protect him up to the moment the jutsu is absorbed.

Oh and ninjabot. Consuming something that hot can even kill you, destroying your digestive system is very possible. The fact that you will end up in the hospital, puke like crazy and so on its a given. But anyway you got what i wanted to state by that. I stated boiling hot and at that temperature your stomach is going to be in big trouble lol. As already mentioned, that barrier is the means to how Hungry Path absorbs something. And why wouldn't Samehada be able to absorb the FRS fast? It absorbed a massive amount of the Hachibi's chakra in moments. The FRS and Ultimate Rasengan contain less chakra then the Hachibi cloak, so why wouldn't Samehada be able to absorb them just as fast? Especially since neither one is as fast as Kirabi's blitz.

But the proof you've shown is irrilevant.. pencil/sword with lightning is not really a jutsu.. From your logic, manipulating chakra is the base for ninjutsu but not a ninjutsu itself..

Read my link above.. asuma clearly stated that manipulating is not really a ninjutsu..

Sasuke's sword is fused with his chidori.. and chidori is a jutsu...so sasuke's chidori sword is deffirent from bee's lightning sword/pencil..

You've never shown some proof that samehada absorbed a ninjutsu but it's just a lightning sword/pencil.. What i mean about a real proof is that samehada really absorb a ninjutsu (like katon, rasengan, suiton). how come i disagreeing the manga if you're not even link your own manga proof about manipulating a chakra is indeed a ninjutsu..

Kisame/samehada was just absorbing their oponents chakra.. which means it's unharmful chakra.. a chakra that's inside of their oponents body.. a visible chakra.. But ninjutsu is different from ordinary chakra.. it was a harmful form of chakra.. A ninjutsu that base from chakra is far more powerful/harmful than ordinary chakra..

PS .. even if kisame/samehada can absorb their oponents chakra but it doesn't mean they can also absorb their oponents ninjutsu..
Example..
Even if kisame/samehada can absorb a gun powder, but it doesn't mean they can also absorb the gun powder inside of a grenade..

All ninjutsu are base from chakra..
All grenade are base from gun powder.

You can't create a ninjutsu without a chakra.
You can't also create a grenade without a gun powder..

So do you think kisame/samehada who can absorb a gun powder can also absorb the grenade.? i don't think so.. How is it irreverent? You have yet to provide any proof from the manga that manipulating the shape and nature of chakra doesn't make something a ninjutsu. All you're doing is a roundabout. Kirabi didn't simply form raw chakra around his blades. He shaped it around the object and transformed his lightning nature into a "high frequency vibration" to enhanced it's piercing power (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-470/page012.html). Kirabi physically transformed his chakra to do something it doesn't normally do. How is that not a ninjutsu? Once again, it's basically the same thing Sasuke does and technically more then Naruto does when he makes the Rasengan. Even by your own weird definition, it's a harmful form of chakra that would have killed Kisame had it hit, thus a ninjutsu. So whichever way you slice it, we have seen Samehada absorb a ninjutsu.

lets get this out of the way.
Samehada can absorb chakra, FRS is made of sage chakra
anything living that absorbs sage chakra turns to stone if they don't properly mediate.
samehada has shown no ability to meditate
samehada turns to stone.
If kisame takes in sage chakra he also turns to stone

i honestly dont seee how this is so difficult to grasp
Naruto in sage made is an auto win against Kisame, Thrown FRS is an auto win, RM is likely an auto win unless naruto breaks his leg under his own power.

So for kisame to win naruto can only stay in his regular normal form. That's not how it would work. Presuming that Sage Chakra itself even has the same effect as natural energy, in order to turn Samehada into a stone, it would have to absorb more natural energy then it's own chakra. But since it's sending and gaining chakra from Kisame who already has far more then base Naruto, the two of them together can absorb a mass of Sage Chakra before they get to the point of being outbalanced by natural energy.

kakashidad

May 11, 2011, 01:48 PM

Samehada is negated by naruto simply employing sennin mode.And absorbing ''natrual energy''.Kisame first and only advantageous attack.Would be to eat away naruto chakra.In ordered to empower himself...thus sending him into a ''fasle sense of secruity''.

Naruto would then be the one that had been ''under estimated''.Let him suck away,and watch him turn to stone...Game changer..game over,lol.

Now that's just one scenario for a naruto win.Another would of been his ridiculas
speed when in ''rikidou mode if he even had to enter it...remember neither knows each others abilities?

That i think is a strong argument with very little weak points if it's viewed objectively.

Oops, i did not see the above post and response.I still stand by what i've said lol.

Tiranofrome

May 11, 2011, 02:05 PM

That's not how it would work. Presuming that Sage Chakra itself even has the same effect as natural energy, in order to turn Samehada into a stone, it would have to absorb more natural energy then it's own chakra. But since it's sending and gaining chakra from Kisame who already has far more then base Naruto, the two of them together can absorb a mass of Sage Chakra before they get to the point of being outbalanced by natural energy.

how did you came to the conclusion that you need more natural energy into yourself to turn you into stone , all you have to do is dusrupt the balance of the 3 types of energy and since samehada has never been shown to be able to control the energy it sucks its pretty obvious that it would fail to do so when it comes into the slightiest contact with natural energy = turning to stone 100%

natural energy is the same as sage chakra , because you call it sage chakra once you manage to properly balance the natural energy , so it has the same properties
the difference is that natural energy doesnt turn you into stone , when you dont try to control it/use it by sucking it in and unless you have trained to be able to control it , you cant do it instantly like fat pain has proven us already

chilibun

May 11, 2011, 03:28 PM

how did you came to the conclusion that you need more natural energy into yourself to turn you into stone , all you have to do is dusrupt the balance of the 3 types of energy and since samehada has never been shown to be able to control the energy it sucks its pretty obvious that it would fail to do so when it comes into the slightiest contact with natural energy = turning to stone 100%

natural energy is the same as sage chakra , because you call it sage chakra once you manage to properly balance the natural energy , so it has the same properties
the difference is that natural energy doesnt turn you into stone , when you dont try to control it/use it by sucking it in and unless you have trained to be able to control it , you cant do it instantly like fat pain has proven us already

Ugh, why do I have to keep disproving this. People need to read earlier posts. Eating balanced sage chakra would not turn Samehada into stone. You only turn to stone when you have too much natural energy vs physical and spiritual. For samehada to turn to stone, he would have to eat bad sage chakra, but Naruto would turn to stone first if he decides to mold bad sage chakra.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-415-15/naruto/chapter-410.html

Lol... I think I've copied and pasted this link like four times already.

xXan

May 11, 2011, 03:32 PM

Ugh, why do I have to keep disproving this. People need to read earlier posts. Eating balanced sage chakra would not turn Samehada into stone. You only turn to stone when you have too much natural energy vs physical and spiritual. For samehada to turn to stone, he would have to eat bad sage chakra, but Naruto would turn to stone first if he decides to mold bad sage chakra.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-415-15/naruto/chapter-410.html

To bad for you theory as elder frog dude stated fat pein is absorbing senjutsu chakra (the already balanced one):

http://www.mangareader.net/93-440-5/naruto/chapter-435.html

Not only this look at the eyes ... he is going into sage mode ... Then he loses that as the energy goes to Pein (the balanced one). Aparently you need to keep balancing it or something. I don't know but he was absorbing balanced chakra.

@Rikudou King

That is NOT how Fat Pein is absorbing stuff(stated it before ...). When he was draining Naruto's chakra he had no shield on, explain that. For some reason he needs a shield for FRS and other jutsus but no need for that to absorb just chakra.
Now if you whant to asume Samehada can absorb FRS faster then Fat Pein then good for you.

Oh yeah and as i stated before raw chakra =/= FRS. Pein showed this when he abosorbed Naruto's normal chakra by touch but he had to put up a shield for FRS, stop it in place and then drain it. The best thing i can see Kisame doing is guarding himself with Samehada in front but that is not going to be able to defend him.

chilibun

May 11, 2011, 03:51 PM

To bad for you theory as elder frog dude fat pein is absorbing senjutsu chakra (the already balanced one):

http://www.mangareader.net/93-440-5/naruto/chapter-435.html

Not only this look at the eyes ... he is going into sage mode ... Then he loses that as the energy goes to Pein (the balanced one). Aparently you need to keep balancing it or something. I don't know but he was absorbing balanced chakra.

Nope, you get the sage eyes when you get enough sage chaka, but it doesn't matter whether the sage chakra is balanced or not.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-417-8/naruto/chapter-412.html

Naruto deliberately took in extra natural energy and the only reason why he did not turn into a frog is because Preta was constantly sucking it up. He even specifically noted the natural energy.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-440-4/naruto/chapter-435.html

xXan

May 11, 2011, 03:55 PM

Nope, you get the sage eyes when you get enough sage chaka, but it doesn't matter whether the sage chakra is balanced or not.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-417-8/naruto/chapter-412.html

Naruto deliberately took in extra natural energy and the only reason why he did not turn into a frog is because Preta was constantly sucking it up. He even specifically noted the natural energy.
http://www.mangareader.net/93-440-4/naruto/chapter-435.html

Agree on the eyes BUT the elder frog states senjutsu chakra and unless you whant to prove the manga wrong (what was stated in it) it was balanced chakra. I don't know how this works and i don't need to. If it was stated that it was the balanced chakra that is what it was.

chilibun

May 11, 2011, 04:08 PM

Agree on the eyes BUT the elder frog states senjutsu chakra and unless you whant to prove the manga wrong (what was stated in it) it was balanced chakra. I don't know how this works and i don't need to. If it was stated that it was the balanced chakra that is what it was.

Elder frog made no statements indicating whether the sage chakra was balanced or not, nor does he really know. We did get an exact explanation of how sage chakra works and that frog petrification comes from having too much natural energy vs. physical and spiritual.

DarkPrinceRevan

May 11, 2011, 04:35 PM

Elder frog made no statements indicating whether the sage chakra was balanced or not, nor does he really know. We did get an exact explanation of how sage chakra works and that frog petrification comes from having too much natural energy vs. physical and spiritual.

i think were forgetting some of the crucial fundamentals to sage training, when naruto was training for sage mode before he could sense it he had to use the oil to draw it in and but since he couldnt convert it to senjutsu chakra it he just kept absorbing it and started to turn him into a frog right away. if the elder hadnt slapped the energy out of him he'd been a statue.

if anything tries to absorb senjutsu chakra directly from naruto in a continues fashion like preta did it would absorb enough nature energy that it would imbalance their chakra and turn them from a frog to a staute. why because naruto acts the same way as the oil does for sages, it allows them to take in nature energy by if you cant balance the amount you take in your a goner.

so with that i dont think samaheda would turn into a statue the same way preta didnt turn into one by absorbing an frs, but if it tries it on naruto its not gonna fare so well

Rikudou King

May 11, 2011, 04:50 PM

That is NOT how Fat Pein is absorbing stuff(stated it before ...). When he was draining Naruto's chakra he had no shield on, explain that. For some reason he needs a shield for FRS and other jutsus but no need for that to absorb just chakra.
Now if you whant to asume Samehada can absorb FRS faster then Fat Pein then good for you.

Oh yeah and as i stated before raw chakra =/= FRS. Pein showed this when he abosorbed Naruto's normal chakra by touch but he had to put up a shield for FRS, stop it in place and then drain it. The best thing i can see Kisame doing is guarding himself with Samehada in front but that is not going to be able to defend him. What are you talking about? Hungry Path did put his shield up (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-434/page019.html) when he was absorbing Naruto's chakra (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-435/page002.html) and later when he was absorbing the natural energy too (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-435/page003.html). There was no difference in methods between absorbing the chakra itself and ninjutsu. I don't see why Samehada couldn't absorb faster, considering we have seen it absorb far more chakra pretty fast. The FRS isn't exactly that fast.