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View Full Version : Conditional H2 Ichigo vs Isshin



CeroOskuraz
April 20, 2011, 06:42 PM
Bankai is restricted. Both are limited to feats only.

Takahashi
April 20, 2011, 06:56 PM
I was quite impressed with Isshin actually. Besting Aizen while Sealed is one hell of a feat.

Hollow Ichigo has impressive feats, but not only is he himself a question mark, so was his opponent.

I would at least assume that R2 Ulq is at least number 3 or so, I never bought the idea that he was better than Stark. So to absolutely stomp someone around the 4th-3rd-possibly 2nd level, they'd have to be at least a fare amount better than number 1. With the mindfuck chapters, I still question some of Aizen's one shots. However, if we take them as legitimate, then Aizen is at the level to do such a thing, and he was beaten by Isshin in a straight up fight.

Ehh, I'll say Isshin marginally. Although most of it is due to Ichigonator being so ridiculously speculative.

Jorge D. Dragon
April 21, 2011, 05:37 AM
Isshin will win. He is strong enough to actually best Aizen while sealed and his Getsuga was tremendous, also he is proficient in Kidou, since he is good in barriers and making charms at such a level.
Also in this form Ichigo is quite dumb and so the opponent of such a level will deal with him of course not with ease, but still I believe Isshin will prevail without many problems.

cracker
April 21, 2011, 08:50 AM
What the wth is h2 Ichigo, the Ichigo after the Ulq fight that acquired the new mask or the monster that destroyed Ulq?

Plus how can it be inferred that someone is sealed if they are able to use zanpakuto abilities (Getsuga Tenshou)?

Crystal Black
April 21, 2011, 11:08 AM
Isshin should be able to take this. It won't be easy, because of H2's unpredictable fighting but Isshin could win.

CeroOskuraz
April 21, 2011, 06:03 PM
I'd say H2 Ichigo wins on virtue of his ridiculous strength feats.

thornofcarrion
April 21, 2011, 11:53 PM
Isshin's abilities are unknown. We only saw a glimpse of them when he fought Aizen. H2 Ichigo is menacingly strong. Really not much to discuss in this battle. I will give the win to Isshin, mostly because Isshin has far more experienced and he did flick Aizen into buildings with one finger :p.

cloudo
April 22, 2011, 12:05 AM
That 'flick' was basically a chantless kido much the same as Shunsui did to Chad that sent him flying. Anyone can probably do it, hitting someone with it when they're unsuspecting will definitely have effect. Isshin is hyped up because he faced Aizen who didn't use KS, who was subduing the Hog' fully, and preparing himself for his transformation. That's not the greatest of feats. Although I do believe he is quite powerful. Ichigo in full hollow form is beyond what Isshin has shown IMO.

thornofcarrion
April 22, 2011, 12:17 AM
"a chantless kido" I probably missed that? Any reference?

Takahashi
April 22, 2011, 12:19 AM
"a chantless kido" I probably missed that? Any reference?

There's a single one in which Urahara stops Rukia, and she says it feels like Kido. That being said, there are many things that are "like" Kido, Amor for example, so I've never really bought the idea of chantless Kido.

thornofcarrion
April 22, 2011, 12:25 AM
A bit off-topic but you mean its not an established fact that Isshin's flick was a kido?

Takahashi
April 22, 2011, 12:28 AM
A bit off-topic but you mean its not an established fact that Isshin's flick was a kido?

No, it's not. But because of the Urahara thing, as well as Shunsui and Isshin using the same move that hasn't been explained, it's generally thought of as Kido. I disagree though.

CeroOskuraz
April 23, 2011, 06:35 AM
The finger flick is most likely Hado 1: Sho.

The reason being if Isshin's casual finger flick has so much strength behind it then his basic movements should be able to do this the entire time (http://www.mangareader.net/94-57111-7/bleach/chapter-418.html).

But the problem is he can't; he isn't that strong (http://www.mangareader.net/94-50186-4/bleach/chapter-399.html) so that a finger flick is stronger than his sword slash. And if he was then in that very same panel Aizen's head should've gone missing.

In any case...

Hado 1: Sho fits everything that Isshin did (http://www.mangareader.net/94-755-5/bleach/chapter-301.html)

Jackk
April 23, 2011, 01:26 PM
Pretty much what CeroOskuraz said.

Also, here's the scene where Kisuke uses a binding spell without incantation and without even saying the name: http://www.mangareader.net/94-502-14/bleach/chapter-48.html

Takahashi
April 23, 2011, 04:03 PM
Now that I think about it, why does it even matter? Aizen was tossed through several buildings either way. Even if it was Kido, it was 1. Freakin' 1.

CeroOskuraz
April 23, 2011, 04:42 PM
Well it makes the difference between normal Isshin monstrous strength and hyped Isshin transcendental + strength

Takahashi
April 23, 2011, 04:45 PM
Well it makes the difference between normal Isshin monstrous strength and hyped Isshin transcendental + strength

When has anyone ever said Isshin was transcendent? I haven't noticed a whole lot of Isshin hype really, but if that's true, fair enough.

HaouLelouch
May 02, 2011, 01:10 PM
H2 ichigo's appearance somewhat resembles Aizen's final hollow form and when H2 Ichigo's mask broke he had the same 'hollow face' as Aizen 2.0 (the one just after condom form and before Gin stabbed him). also after the ulquiorra fight ichigo was the only one on the battlefield who could detect condom Aizen's reiatsu. I have reasons to believe ichigonator is a transcendental or at least an incomplete one like Aizen's earlier evolutionary stages. this explains how ichigo suddenly wtfpwned R2 ulq when R1 was making short work of him. Isshin doesn't really stand much of a chance.