PDA

View Full Version : Fantasy Hachi vs Kenpachi



Omiem
April 21, 2011, 03:28 PM
Location: Fake Karakura Town

Knowledge: None

State of Mind: In character

Takahashi
April 21, 2011, 03:40 PM
Kenpachi.

Hachi is probably the best support you could ask for, but in a direct fight, I don't think he could manage. Any Kido he could use to severely hurt or restrain Kenpachi would take too long to use. I doubt Hachi has the Reiatsu to hold Kenpachi down without incantation. In terms of offensive Kido, I don't think he has anything definitive to win. His only chance is if Kenpachi stands there and allows himself to be hit, like with Tousen, if not, Kenpachi crushes him.

Hachi's outclassed in 1 v 1 fights against either very fast opponents or Reiatsu monsters

Omiem
April 21, 2011, 04:03 PM
Kenpachi.

Hachi is probably the best support you could ask for, but in a direct fight, I don't think he could manage. Any Kido he could use to severely hurt or restrain Kenpachi would take too long to use.
If you're referring to Hachi's large barrier that he used to trap Barragan, then I agree. However, the same can't be said for his other Kidou techniques.

I doubt Hachi has the Reiatsu to hold Kenpachi down without incantation. In terms of offensive Kido, I don't think he has anything definitive to win. His only chance is if Kenpachi stands there and allows himself to be hit, like with Tousen, if not, Kenpachi crushes him.

Hachi's outclassed in 1 v 1 fights against either very fast opponents or Reiatsu monsters
Well this is your opinion of course. I personally believe that a Bakudo #99 can restrain Kenpachi, and there's nothing that suggests Hollow Kensei is significantly weaker than Kenpachi in terms of physical strength.

Anyways, I don't see how Kenpachi is suppose to reach Hachi. He can't fly, and I personally believe that Hachi's barriers are strong enough to block Kenpachi's attacks, seeing how he slowed down Respira to some extent. Hachi can keep attacking from a safe distance, while Kenpachi loses stamina.

Takahashi
April 21, 2011, 04:16 PM
If you're referring to Hachi's large barrier that he used to trap Barragan, then I agree. However, the same can't be said for his other Kidou techniques.

Well this is your opinion of course. I personally believe that a Bakudo #99 can restrain Kenpachi, and there's nothing that suggests Hollow Kensei is significantly weaker than Kenpachi in terms of physical strength.

Anyways, I don't see how Kenpachi is suppose to reach Hachi. He can't fly, and I personally believe that Hachi's barriers are strong enough to block Kenpachi's attacks, seeing how he slowed down Respira to some extent. Hachi can keep attacking from a safe distance, while Kenpachi loses stamina.

Of course it's my opinion, Hachi's never fought a CQC guy directly, and Kenpachi has never fought a Kido user :p

A Bakudo 99 probably could hold Kenpachi for a while, but I also don't think Kido is in any way undodgable, nor is it unbreakable. After all, Kido is powered by Reiatsu, and Kenpachi is a Reiatsu monster. When an attack fueled by Reiatsu hits an overwhelming force of Reiatsu (Kenpachi), its power is going to be diminished.

Hachi also used number 99 on a wild monster fighting multiple opponents, the situation is VERY different when the only target is one coming right for you.

Kenpachi can't fly, but he jumps high enough to hit Yammy in the face, so it's a non-issue for me. Hachi's not exactly agile either. If Hachi starts using barriers to block Kenpachi's strikes, well he's still at the disadvantage, he can't attack and block at the same time. As far as losing stamina, I don't think that's an issue for Kenpachi.

Kenpachi is no idiot either. He may like to charge in, but he can think rationally when the situation calls for it.

ShootToKill
April 21, 2011, 04:17 PM
Hachi teleports a rock inside Kenpachi's head - fight over :D

Seriously though, this is a weird fight. Hachi is hardly your typical "warrior", and is a strange opponent for Kenpachi - the majority of his opponents seem to share his lust for battle.

I could see this happening - Kenpachi does his usual "I'll let you give me your best shot before I attack you", to which Hachi responds by improsoning Kenpachi in a high level Bakudo, and Kenpachi is trapped. Hachi has, I believe, no techniques with which he can destroy Kenpachi, but imprisoning him is another matter. If Kenpachi goes in swinging from the start, it's over, but if he gives Hachi a chance to imprison him, Hachi "wins", assuming Kenpachi can't use his massive Reiatsu to destroy the barrier imprisoning him.

Omiem
April 21, 2011, 04:38 PM
Of course it's my opinion, Hachi's never fought a CQC guy directly, and Kenpachi has never fought a Kido user :p

A Bakudo 99 probably could hold Kenpachi for a while, but I also don't think Kido is in any way undodgable, nor is it unbreakable. After all, Kido is powered by Reiatsu, and Kenpachi is a Reiatsu monster. When an attack fueled by Reiatsu hits an overwhelming force of Reiatsu (Kenpachi), its power is going to be diminished.

Hachi also used number 99 on a wild monster fighting multiple opponents, the situation is VERY different when the only target is one coming right for you.

Kenpachi can't fly, but he jumps high enough to hit Yammy in the face, so it's a non-issue for me. Hachi's not exactly agile either. If Hachi starts using barriers to block Kenpachi's strikes, well he's still at the disadvantage, he can't attack and block at the same time. As far as losing stamina, I don't think that's an issue for Kenpachi.

Kenpachi is no idiot either. He may like to charge in, but he can think rationally when the situation calls for it.
-Kidou is breakable of course, but I don't recall anyone in the Bleach universe ever dodging a Bakudo technically speaking.

-I don't think jumping will be a feasible way of reaching Hachi, since it's not flexible as flying. R1 Yammy wasn't really that tall anyways (http://kazenoyouni.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/yammy.jpg%253Fw%253D360%2526h%253D270). Plus, Kenpachi used Yammy's arm to help him jump (http://www.mangareader.net/94-38995-11/bleach/chapter-381.html).

Takahashi
April 21, 2011, 04:40 PM
-Kidou is breakable of course, but I don't recall anyone in the Bleach universe ever dodging a Bakudo technically speaking.

No, but it's obviously possible, otherwise Kido is pretty much the end all ultimate form of Shinigami combat :P


-I don't think jumping will be a feasible way of reaching Hachi, since it's not flexible as flying. R1 Yammy wasn't really that tall anyways (http://kazenoyouni.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/yammy.jpg%253Fw%253D360%2526h%253D270). Plus, Kenpachi used Yammy's arm to help him jump (http://www.mangareader.net/94-38995-11/bleach/chapter-381.html).

Okay, at any rate, Hachi isn't going to be flying all over the place and dodging. Kenpachi may not be the most agile, but Hachi is arguably one of the slowest. I'm also not sure if Kido is easy to do on the move, have we ever seen someone do that?

Crystal Black
April 21, 2011, 05:55 PM
Kenpachi will flat out destroy Hachi. Hachi's only safe bet is to create multiple barriers and try to transfer at stone into Zaraki. "As if that's going to stop him though with his insane amount of strength and endurance".

Raizen
April 21, 2011, 06:09 PM
Hachi teleports a rock inside Kenpachi's head - fight over :D

Seriously though, this is a weird fight. Hachi is hardly your typical "warrior", and is a strange opponent for Kenpachi - the majority of his opponents seem to share his lust for battle.

I could see this happening - Kenpachi does his usual "I'll let you give me your best shot before I attack you", to which Hachi responds by improsoning Kenpachi in a high level Bakudo, and Kenpachi is trapped. Hachi has, I believe, no techniques with which he can destroy Kenpachi, but imprisoning him is another matter. If Kenpachi goes in swinging from the start, it's over, but if he gives Hachi a chance to imprison him, Hachi "wins", assuming Kenpachi can't use his massive Reiatsu to destroy the barrier imprisoning him.
I thought the only reason hacchi can teleport something into someone is because that someone had a gaping hole inside them. THat was what happened to barragan. Soifon's bankai left a huge hole in his body for which the teleport took advantage of. Otherwise, what is to stop hacchi from teleporting a blade into someone like aizen or gin....

But Kenpachi owns. Hachi is screwed in a 1-on-1 fight

ShootToKill
April 21, 2011, 06:13 PM
I thought the only reason hacchi can teleport something into someone is because that someone had a gaping hole inside them. THat was what happened to barragan. Soifon's bankai left a huge hole in his body for which the teleport took advantage of. Otherwise, what is to stop hacchi from teleporting a blade into someone like aizen or gin....

But Kenpachi owns. Hachi is screwed in a 1-on-1 fight
I was joking about the rock thing, I just recall it being mentioned before and thought it was funny :D

However, if Kenpachi gives Hachi the opportunity to land the first "blow", which being in character he might - Hachi doesn't have the most impressive appearance for a warrior, so Kenpachi is likely to not regard him as a threat initially, Hachi could imprison him with some high level Bakudo, and that would be Kenpachi finished, unless he could break free by way of his vast Reiatsu.

CeroOskuraz
April 21, 2011, 06:19 PM
I think I was the one who actually brought up the rock. Lol. But in any case...

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-327-page-17.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-327-page-18.html

It's implied Urahara didn't know about teleportation or time-stop, so I find it highly unlikely that Hachi would use it unless in a super-dire situation. Given Hachi...and his propensity to likely be one-shotted by Kenpachi...

Lol

Takahashi
April 21, 2011, 06:25 PM
I think I was the one who actually brought up the rock. Lol. But in any case...

That would be Hachigeneral :amuse I miss some of those guys...

thornofcarrion
April 21, 2011, 11:49 PM
Hachi can fight from long range with his Kido, whereas Kenpachi need to fight at close range. At close range, Kenpachi is a definite winner. But if Hachi manages to keep his opponent at bay, Hachi can win this one.

Omiem
April 23, 2011, 12:30 PM
No, but it's obviously possible, otherwise Kido is pretty much the end all ultimate form of Shinigami combat :P
That's probably true, but the chances of Kenpachi doing it seems pretty slim to me. Plus, it's not his character anyways.

Okay, at any rate, Hachi isn't going to be flying all over the place and dodging. Kenpachi may not be the most agile, but Hachi is arguably one of the slowest. I'm also not sure if Kido is easy to do on the move, have we ever seen someone do that?
-Hachi only needs to dodge if he's close to Kenpachi. If he's at a safe distance, then there's no need to dodge. If Kenpachi somehow reaches Hachi, I think Hachi can block his attacks with a barrier.

-Hisagi seemed to perform a Bakudo on the move right here (http://www.mangareader.net/94-778-13/bleach/chapter-324.html).

Takahashi
April 23, 2011, 02:50 PM
That's probably true, but the chances of Kenpachi doing it seems pretty slim to me. Plus, it's not his character anyways.

Which is why I said Hachi has a good chance if Kenpachi pulls the dumbass "stand there and tank it" attitude like he did against Tousen.

I give it to Kenpachi for 2 pretty simple reasons:

1. Hachi isn't fast enough to outright dodge Kenpachi for the whole fight, and he has no effective CQC means. Simply put, Kenpachi WILL get close, and when he does, he's essentially won IMO

2. Typically, I don't care too much about Reiatsu, but here I have to. Kido is powered by Reiatsu, and is Hachi's ONLY method of attack and defense. Because of that, any conflicting Reiatsu is going to reduce the effectiveness of his attack and defense. If that conflicting Reiatsu is MUCH more powerful (which I do believe it is) then the effectiveness of the Kido used is going to lose its power. Factor in Kenpachi's crazy tanking abilities, and I don't think Hachi can win unless he binds Kenpachi and crushes him with an incredibly high level Kido, while using his mask. I don't think any less will be sufficient.



-Hachi only needs to dodge if he's close to Kenpachi. If he's at a safe distance, then there's no need to dodge. If Kenpachi somehow reaches Hachi, I think Hachi can block his attacks with a barrier.

-Hisagi seemed to perform a Bakudo on the move right here (http://www.mangareader.net/94-778-13/bleach/chapter-324.html).

My point is that even though Kenpachi lacks Shunpo, I'd be willing to be he's faster than Hachi. I also don't think Hachi can block with barriers with any effectiveness.

We probably won't come to a conclusion here, because I've never believed the Kido guys stood a chance in CQC just because they can use barriers. I think both Hachi and Tessai are severely overrated because people act like they can do freaking everything. Especially in the case of Kenpachi, no way can Hachi stand a chance if the gap is closed.

Crystal Black
April 23, 2011, 10:02 PM
We probably won't come to a conclusion here, because I've never believed the Kido guys stood a chance in CQC just because they can use barriers. I think both Hachi and Tessai are severely overrated because people act like they can do freaking everything. Especially in the case of Kenpachi, no way can Hachi stand a chance if the gap is closed.

I agree. Kenpachi is reckless but not stupid. The moment Hachi begins to spam bakudos, Kenpachi will soon realise he's facing a kido master and would most likely take this seriously, knowing he's at a disadvantage in a mid-long range fight.

kamakazi_1996
April 30, 2011, 05:23 AM
hachi is too much of a support character and he needs time to set up offensive kido

ken wins this

ShootToKill
April 30, 2011, 02:29 PM
In this case, I believe that Reiatsu wins out. Kenpachi will be able to slice through all but the highest level defensive Kido Hachi can throw at him. If Hachi could trap Ken in the Kido prison he used on Barragan, he "wins", but I don't believe Ken would give him the chance. As soon as Ken close enough to Hachi, the fight's over.

cracker
April 30, 2011, 06:16 PM
The way Hachi fights Kenpachi would consider it so boring...if he's in the mood, Hachi is in serious trouble

HaouLelouch
May 02, 2011, 01:01 PM
Hachi: bakudo no 90 kin!
Kenpachi: lol you trying to buy time?
Hachi: (puts on mask) Nijimidasu kondaku no monshō. Fusonnaru kyōki no utsuwa! Wakiagari hiteishi! Shibire matataki! Nemuri wo samatageru! Hakōsuru tetsu no ōjō! Taezu jikaisuru doro no ningyō! Ketsugōseyo! Hanpatsuseyo! Chi ni michi onore no muryoku wo shire!
Hadō #90. Kurohitsugi!

kenpachi: lol what's this, this wouldn't even be morning exercise. (pulls the kido spears out of his back) proceeds to cut hachi down.

Hachi: super hax teleportation no jutsu
Kenpachi: wtf did you just do.
Hachi: i teleported a grenade into the insides of you stomach.
Kenpachi: oh shi-BOOM.

Hachi takes this.

nah i actually voted for ken.

Raizen
May 03, 2011, 11:28 AM
Wow... I can't believe people actually voted for hacchi... I bet i can guess at least who one of those votes are :ninja