Nagato vs Oonoki

[3c]

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/9058/nagatovsoonoki.jpg

this keeps the others ones nicely aligned


He is the shinobi with the most raw power, and with most potential in the world of Naruto. The reason for that is that he wields the most powerful doujutsu ever. The Rinnegan. Thanks to these eyes he has access to every element, he is a master of life and death, and not just that, he also wields an insane amount of chakra. Jiraiya mentioned his talent for ninjutsu, Konan commended him for his invincibility, and he had the power and ability to singlehandedly take care of a village or a battelfield full of enemies. But he is all alone now, not depending on his bodies, as he starts out as one of the most dreadful fighters of this tournament.
this keeps the others ones nicely aligned


The Third Tsuchikage and the student of the Second Tsuchikage, Onoki is renowned as "Onoki of Both Scales". Being the oldest Kage currently alive, Onoki has no problem using any means to maintain the strength of Iwagakure, even if it means using a mercenary group to counter Kumogakure's militarized growth. Onoki is dead set to his ways and act quite stubborn sometimes, though he is willing to bend for the greater good. Being around since the founding of the villages, Onoki has a great deal of experience in battle. Learnt from his predecessor, Onoki possesses the unique Bloodline Selection, enabling him to combine Doton, Fuuton, and Katon to manipulate molecules as Jinton. In addition, Onoki can take flight and move quite quickly while in
this keeps the others ones nicely aligned

Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!

[Smit]

Have to give this to Nagato. Jinto techniques might be powerfull but Nagato has 2 ways off dealing with it. First is ST, that can blast the attack away. And in the case that Onoki attacks in the 5 sec interval Nagato can absorb the attack. And since thats the only attack we have seen from Onoki we really have no choice but to give this to Nagato.
PS.His flight wont help him either againt BT.

[Deepak5191]

As strong as Oonoki is, Nagato having all the powers of the 6 pains in one body (minus robot path of course) is just too strong for him. His 5 second interval which was the balance to prevent ST from being hax is not much of a concern if he can absorb jutsu in the meantime. A BT followed by a stab from a chakra rod and there shouldn't be much that Oonoki can do.

[ninjabot]

Onoki hasn't shown much, but from what he has shown he's pretty beastly. A jutsu that smashes you to atoms. A jutsu powerful enough to blow up an entire island. The ability to fly and make others fly, and the ability to petrify those that he touches.

Based on that, I think he seriously has a chance to win this fight. Flight protects him completely from any form of Shinra Tensei. Maybe even Banshou Tenin, as he can simply fly in the opposite direction of where he's being pulled. And since he's shown he can use his Dust Cone technique while flying, simply flying away from the giant summons and the pulling force and the missiles before dropping out an attack so powerful it can nuke the entire battlefield seems viable, and because of that I'm voting for him.

I don't expect him to win at all, but I think he stands a good chance. That's reason enough for me to vote for him. Gedo Mazo is the biggest threat here IMO.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

I'd give this to Nagato with a difficulty, cause Onooki's Bloodline Fusion is really strong and devastating move.:)
But Nagato is just too strong for the majority of shinobi. The powers of the six paths in one body is quite great, especially being able to use Shinra Tensei and being able to negate jutsus.

[Rikudou King]

Yeah, Nagato wins this, but it won't be easy. Onoki won't expect his ninjutsu to be absorbed by Nagato, so he'll be caught off guard at first. While Onoki has powerful techniques, Nagato can make them all moot, meaning he won't be in any danger. In addition, Nagato can summon his other creatures to aid in distracting Onoki until he can get into the sky too. Even if Onoki is able to counter him, the fact that Onoki's old means that he'll likely won't last as long as Nagato will in battle.

[MONKEYS]

This is a tricky one, one the one hand, there's Oonoki.
He has: Dust release
Experience
Determination
The ability to fly

Tsunade, another Kage (and really the only one we can compare with Oonoki in terms of rank) never fought Pain directly, but instead was using her chakra to keep everyone alive, so there's not much we've got there.

Nagato does have his Preta path abilities and Shinra Tensei though (and Bansho tenin, ie pulling technique), which could make it difficult for Oonoki.

Plus, Nagato can use a widescale attack too (big Shinra tensei, and Chibaku tensei), so I'm giving this to Nagato.

[xXan]

People are forgeting that Nagato himself can fly ... Probably not as fast as the old man but he can. Even if the old man get's a distance from Nagato he can just use CT and pull him in as there is no way he can escapte from that. Hell Nagato can even go invisible with that summon of his when doing CT and having some summons running around after the old man. Nagato wins.

[jdw]

Nagato will defeat Oonoki with little trouble, imo. The abilities of Nagato far overpower anything and everything shown by Tsuchikage.

Even if Tsuchikage leads with dust release, Nagato just absorbs it and Banshou Tenin's him and rips his soul out for the W. If Tsuchikage flies away, Banshou Tenin. Tsuchikage attacks directly, Shinra Tensei. Fight is over right after it begins.

[chilibun]

Oh man... How did these two get matchup in the first round? Onoki is a beast with arguably one of the most destructive techniques in the manga. If Onoki's dust release can indeed destroy the turtle island, I can't think of any other jutsu matching it's power except for a Bijuu blast. Not a rasenshuriken, not Amaterasu (unless he used it until his eye exploded), nothing. Maybe super ST and a Kirin from a really big storm (and I mean BIG), but thats it. If Onoki takes to the air and launches his blasts, I'm not convinced Nagato can defend it with a regular ST or chakra absorption.

At this point, its kinda moot though. I just can't give it to somebody we haven't even seen in battle yet over Nagato.

[jdw]

Nagato can ride the bird summon if need be. He rode the chameleon before, so it isn't like he would not ride a summon. He can take to the air and kill Tsuchikage there.

[juUnior]

Its somewhat sad that those two are put in the first round <maybe we saw little of Tsuchikage, but its still enough to beat the shit out of some other fighters xd> that said: Nagato <I'm still not believing that moderators didn't put him as Nagato hidden - Pain "justu" fights as this was the way we were shown him fighting> BUT even so: all those Rinnegan abilities in one body are more than enough to handle Onoki, whether it will be ST or CT.

[xXan]

Nagato can ride the bird summon if need be. He rode the chameleon before, so it isn't like he would not ride a summon. He can take to the air and kill Tsuchikage there.

He can also levitate as above Konoha before the Super ST.

[NAM61]

i vote for nagato he should be able to block onokis dust tech with shirina tensei. and he can fly as well. plus he has all his summonings.

[jorped]

I have doubts about the end of this fight !!! Both of them are just insanely strong.
Naruto defeated Nagato, that was using the Pains.
In this case he isn't like that, so i don't quite know what to expect from his power.
Is he more strong or more weak ? I can't really say :oh

I don't think Naruto with only Sage Mode would be able of beating Onoki.
And though Onoki is old , is mobility seems awesome so Naruto would have some problems with it.
But maybe a summoning would help.
Nagato would definitely use his very strong summonings , but i don't think Onoki would be beaten by something like that.

I think that this fight wouldn't be as predictable as much people seem to think .
This would be a great match and i ain't still quite sure in who to vote.
I will wait more time to vote. But i might give Nagato to edge for now , cuz he is more versatile than Onoki

[White Silver King]

I think they'd both die so no vote for me.

[jdw]

Wow, that's a bold, outside of the box position. Can you explain how you come to this determination? I am not trying to convince you otherwise, I'd just like to hear the reasoning.

[THM Nindo]

It's really too bad that this fight came before we can actually see Ooniki fight.
Honestly, I think they both have a chance of winning.

It all depends if Ooniki's atomic jutsu can be absorbed and/or repelled.
From what we saw, it seems everything can be absorbed and repelled, so in that case, Nagato would have the advantage.

[juUnior]

Is he more strong or more weak ? I can't really say
Weaker. Definitely weaker <if we can say it that way>

[KiSwordsman]

Nagato can ride the bird summon if need be. He rode the chameleon before, so it isn't like he would not ride a summon. He can take to the air and kill Tsuchikage there.

Does he even need to? Cant he fly himself?

http://www.mangareader.net/93-434-6/naruto/chapter-429.html

[biggchiefmo]

if the 6 realms were aloud this would a no brainer. I think ppl arent giving oonoki enough credit you dont get to be as old as him without being awesome. sure nagato is in control of all the 6 paths techs but what good will any of them do since oonoki can fly, the only thing that can counter that ability is the summonings and the dust release tech should take care of those. the fact that nagato is pretty much immobile makes it hard to argue for his definite win, and the fact that oonoki can never get close to nagato or his soul will be suck out, nor can he use his dust release to kill nagato since he may be able to just negate or absorb it, makes it difficult to argue for oonoki's definitive victory.

I'm really on the fence for the first time since this tourney started. I cant make a decision right now, as i'll have to hear some more debates for each side.

Now this is a great match up, this is what i've been waiting for, a match up were i cant guess the winner by only the names shown. nobody get pwned FTW in this match. GREAT PAIRING HERE!! IMO this can only end in a draw at best, though i know there has to be a winner.

S/N if the 6 realms were allowed Pain would wipe the floor with oonoki's blood. JUST SAYIN'

[jdw]

Credit for what? Oonoki hasn't really done anything.

[biggchiefmo]

also i'm not sure about nagato being able to fly, we've never seen it, we've the deva pain fly, but not nagato, his legs dont work, i'm sure if he could fly he wouldnt need that funky wheel chair thing. plus we've seen him being carried by kakazu and itachi someone that can fly doesnt need to assisted in their movement i would think. but then again oonoki did need to be carried after tweeking his back before the kage summit, but once he decided to fly everyone else needed his help. I just think that was an ability unique to deva realm. if nagato could fly why not do it to avoid getting his legs all but blown off against Hanzou. and dont say he was too angry to move, extreme anger doesnt take residency over self preservation.

---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 AM ----------


Credit for what? Oonoki hasn't really done anything.

for being the oldest living kage, for fighting with the likes of a young madara in his prime and living to tell about it. heck just that is enough for me, seeing as how the only ninjas we know survived a scuffle with madara in his youth was the first hokage. and he didnt live much longer after that.

[jdw]

Nagato's legs have been healed for the tournament, iirc.

[biggchiefmo]

Nagato's legs have been healed for the tournament, iirc.

oh yeah your totally right, but i'm still undecided! weak legs/ healthy legs, i still see this as a stalemate. also can nagato summon gedo mazo?

[KiSwordsman]

also i'm not sure about nagato being able to fly, we've never seen it, we've the deva pain fly, but not nagato, his legs dont work, i'm sure if he could fly he wouldnt need that funky wheel chair thing. plus we've seen him being carried by kakazu and itachi someone that can fly doesnt need to assisted in their movement i would think. but then again oonoki did need to be carried after tweeking his back before the kage summit, but once he decided to fly everyone else needed his help. I just think that was an ability unique to deva realm. if nagato could fly why not do it to avoid getting his legs all but blown off against Hanzou. and dont say he was too angry to move, extreme anger doesnt take residency over self preservation.



If I recall correctly that's when we first saw Nagato using the abilities of the six paths. There is no evidence saying that he had a complete handle on all of his abilities by that time. Also, Nagato gave each of those abilities to each realm, it would make zero sense if only God realm could do it and not Nagato himself. I'll have to check weather Nagato is in his chair for this tournament.

Edit: Not in chair.

[ninjabot]

Wow, that's a bold, outside of the box position. Can you explain how you come to this determination? I am not trying to convince you otherwise, I'd just like to hear the reasoning.


While I don't share the sentiment that it's probable, it's possible it could go down like that.

Forcing Nagato to use Shinra Tensei doesn't leave him time to absorb whatever jutsu is coming his way IMO. Fly away just long enough that Banshou Tenin is needed to pull him close before cooking one of those dust cubes up and dropping it around them both the instant Nagato stabs him. Or, petrify him as he stabs him. Or at the very least, petrify a limb before crushing it, and nuking the battlefiled once he attempts to have Enma come out and heal his lost arm. I don't think anyone here has provided proof Nagato can use multiple realm jutsu at once, so until someone can think up the logic behind that I'm not sure he can Bansho Tenin and absorb jutsu while he's actively pulling you, so the Dust Cone might be all it takes.

Unless the rules specifically say Nagato can multitask different paths at the same time, for the tournament. One has to wonder what the point of having multiple paths using multiple jutsu is if he could use them all at any time with his own body.

EDIT POST: I was of the opinion that God Realm could only fly with a steady propulsion of Shinra Tensei, because the weaker version of the jutsu he uses, the lest of a time limit in between. Meaning, if he uses the standard ST, then he'll start falling for 5 seconds until he gets the power to do it again. And if that's the case he's not catching anyone flying that way. If he loses his bird, which is incredibly likely, then he's probably stuck flying that way, which keeps him from using the Chou Shinra Tensei because if he tries to use it mid-flight, if the time limit still counts, then he'll fall from the sky, incapable of flying for a long time (possibly even KOing himself if Oonoki takes out the summon he's trying to land on during his freefall, and depending on high up they go). Not to mention when Nagato himself provides the chakra for God Realm to use it, he gets taxed heavily. If he tries that jutsu in this fight with his own body he's basically signing his death warrant, as he'll be exhausted and immobile sans aid of summons.

[mattiaildivino]

Oonoki and his kekkei tota are surely strong,but against Nagato it's all useless and vain. Nagato can use his 6th bodies technique plus a 7th,he himself.he's much stronger than Pain.

[juUnior]

so until someone can think up the logic behind that I'm not sure he can Bansho Tenin and absorb jutsu while he's actively pulling you, so the Dust Cone might be all it takes.
Actually no one can prove that because we did not see Nagato 'properly' fghting like that. I think moderators should clarify this <I mean, make rules how we should view this because now that I think about it - its interesting point to consider> I will not comment on this from my perspective until moderators say sth in that matter xd

[Josear XIII]

I go with oonoki on this one, damn the old man still doesnt even give up his Kage place, and feudal lords cant take him out, must be for a good reason, this old man could pulverize a each pain with a solid jab and fly to evade others, its tactis and Oonoki knows them all.

Heck he havent even shown his full potential

[huynhlan]

Nagato have this in the bag in my opinion, he can just BT Oonoki. As of right now, Oonoki haven't show anything that can counter nagato's power so to bad Oonoki loses this battle.

[mattiaildivino]

nagato can move with his summons,for example he could enter in his chameleon's mouth,and when he is close enough he can use his giant shinra tensei. Oonoki's back should break :tem

[jdw]

I am amazed that anyone can vote for the geezer with minimal decent feats against Nagato, one of the strongest shinobi shown in the manga, who posseses the most versatile movesets seen to date.

[kelv015]

Nagato takes this. I won''t take Onoki's back into account though, since while flying he was able to carry a freakin turtle island with no problem. Thus far, his back hasn't given him much trouble (except allow him to use it as a excuse to not fight when he doesn't want to). And Onoki might have devastating ninjutsu, but it's useless against Nagato. And from what we've seen, Onoki doesn't have what it takes to trick Nagato. He isn't fast, Nagato can get to the skies as well, actually, Onoki won't be able to even put some pressure on Onoki. If Onoki stays on the ground, BT and a stab, or he calls upon his handful of summons, Onoki flies, he uses his bird-like summon, he flies himself to use Chou ST, or simply uses CT....or he simply uses whatever jutsu he wishes since he has the Rinnegan...

[Lelo]

I say Nagato wins this. Oonoki hasnt shown much and he's too old to be running around fighting 6 Peins. I cant see him lasting long due to his age. And even if he knows Peins abilities he still would lose.

[Rikudou King]

oh yeah your totally right, but i'm still undecided! weak legs/ healthy legs, i still see this as a stalemate. also can nagato summon gedo mazo? Yes, Nagato can summon the Gedo Mazo.

[mattiaildivino]

Yes, Nagato can summon the Gedo Mazo.

Thus Nagato,who would have won anyway,wins much easier.

[biggchiefmo]

okay i think i've made up my mind, if gedo mazo is allowed it crushes anything that oonoki can come up with, seeing as how gedo mazo allows nagato to not need to be close to be deadly, there is no escaping that summon. a persons only chance against gedo mazo is too hope there are several other ninja around that take it's focus off the primary target, so he could then escape.

I guess Nagato WINS

s/n for those still waiting to be swayed Nagato cant use 7 paths, only 6 since the robot path isnt allowed due to the fact that Nagato cant open the top of his skull and shoot lazer beams out of it, nor do rockets come out of his back.

[Darkp]

Ok some people claims pre kyubi mode naruto could defeat pein . That is a bit unfair .

There are some cirucial circumstances like Pein never intend to kill naruto ,just want to capture him, if he wanted to kil him from the start , he could have killed naruto like on 2 or 3 occasions with ease .

And that was a weakened version of pein who trashed leaf villiage , where he lost most of his chakra and start to vomit blood etc , deva pein could not use his powers untill the very end , on the other hand Naruto did start to fight with all of his legendary summons and used sage mode and some of kyubi power .

For the match , I will go with nagato if he can absorb or shinra tensei oonoki jutsu's which I think he can . That is very sad that one of the strongest cage needs to clash with nagato .

[mattiaildivino]

it would be interesting to see what would happen if the chibaku tensei and the dust element crush.would Oonoki's technique defeat Nagato's?I doubt it,I think noone of them would cancel each other.perhaps the dust element could destroy some of the little moon,but no the black nucleus which generates it.

[Delbi]

Nagato will defeat Oonoki with little trouble, imo. The abilities of Nagato far overpower anything and everything shown by Tsuchikage.Even if Tsuchikage leads with dust release, Nagato just absorbs it and Banshou Tenin's him and rips his soul out for the W. If Tsuchikage flies away, Banshou Tenin. Tsuchikage attacks directly, Shinra Tensei. Fight is over right after it begins.

Onoki's Dust Release Technique that he wanted to use on Deidara would have destroyed the entire Turtle Island. That's comparable to the big ST and CT.

Saying that, Onoki has the techniques to defeat Nagato, but he is too old. You need stamina, or extremely powerful and diverse jutsu (like Sussano or the Kyuubi) to have any change to defeat Nagato.

[White Silver King]

I say Nagato wins this. Oonoki hasnt shown much and he's too old to be running around fighting 6 Pein
He only has one body in these fights.

[jdw]

Onoki's Dust Release Technique that he wanted to use on Deidara would have destroyed the entire Turtle Island. That's comparable to the big ST and CT.

Saying that, Onoki has the techniques to defeat Nagato, but he is too old. You need stamina, or extremely powerful and diverse jutsu (like Sussano or the Kyuubi) to have any change to defeat Nagato.

We think it would have. We didn't even see it executed. It would be different if he was trying to take out Kabuto with it, failed, but still destroyed the island, we could at least assess the scale of the jutsu. As of now he can fly, destroy stuff Sasuke's size, etc.

[ninjabot]

We think it would have. We didn't even see it executed. It would be different if he was trying to take out Kabuto with it, failed, but still destroyed the island, we could at least assess the scale of the jutsu. As of now he can fly, destroy stuff Sasuke's size, etc.


No, we were told it would have. Just like we were told that Minato was faster than Raikage. You can't accept one without accepting the other, because neither were proven in the manga by feats. With that blatant lie Itachi told Kisame about what would happen if they both fought Jiraiya, we learned later it was complete BS by seeing all of the ninja's full strengths, so we could accurately confirm Jiraiya can't realistically win against either ninja alone, let alone at the same time.

This situation however, just like with the Raikage and Minato situation... is different. We have no mangascans that would contradict what was already said by Akatsuchi, meaning we've no choice but to accept what what was said until such scans present themselves.

Thus, Onoki's attack should be that powerful.

[bhasty]

Onoki's Dust Release Technique that he wanted to use on Deidara would have destroyed the entire Turtle Island. That's comparable to the big ST and CT.

Saying that, Onoki has the techniques to defeat Nagato, but he is too old. You need stamina, or extremely powerful and diverse jutsu (like Sussano or the Kyuubi) to have any change to defeat Nagato.

Konoha village and turtle island are not the same.. konoha is 20 or 30 times bigger than turtle island..

oonoki's jutsu maybe can destroy (?) the turtle island but nagato's ST destroy the konoha and it even made a hole (that's much bigger than the turtle island) and almost everything was turned to dust.. Nagato can even make his CT more bigger and more powerful

So saying that oonoki's dust release tech is comparable to ST and CT is definitely wrong..

PS - Susanoo and the uchiha's MS power nor the kyubi isn't enough to defeat nagato..

[Delbi]

Konoha village and turtle island are not the same.. konoha is 20 or 30 times bigger than turtle island..
oonoki's jutsu maybe can destroy (?) the turtle island but nagato's ST destroy the konoha and it even made a hole (that's much bigger than the turtle island) and almost everything was turned to dust.. Nagato can even make his CT more bigger and more powerful

So saying that oonoki's dust release tech is comparable to ST and CT is definitely wrong..

PS - Susanoo and the uchiha's MS power nor the kyubi isn't enough to defeat nagato..

So you have accurate measurements of the Island and Konoha to prove this claim? Yea, you don't.

It's a ninja village. Not a ninja city. And there are many islands throughout the world that are bigger than even the biggest cities in the world in terms of their total area, so this is an absurd claim.

On top of that, Onoki's jutsu vaporize stuff. Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei merely move things, so it terms of killing power, Onoki's are superior to Nagato's.

And the Kyuubi isn't enough to defeat Nagato? Re-read the manga, because the 8 tailed Kyuubi form was about to ass-rape Deva and everything in it's path until Minato stepped in to repair the seal. And I'll wait if Sasuke ever fights Nagato to prove just how well the MS, or in his case EMS is prepared to handle Nagato.

[licentious1]

I'm not voting on this one yet. How does one defend against an island falling on one's head?

[jdw]

Where is the island in this fight? did Oonoki sign the turtle to a contract?

[M3J]

I voted for Nagato. He has the tools to defeat Oonoki: ability to absorb chakra, send Oonoki flying away, and ability to summon animals (I think anyway) like the Cerberus. He can overwhelm Oonoki, especially with the high amount of chakra, and I'm not even mentioning Shinra Tensei, Chibaku Tensei, and Bansho Tenin, although only Chibaku Tensei could kill, but it can be avoided.

Oonoki's only chance with his ability to lift is negated unless he can lift stuff and throw it at Nagato fast enough before the 5-sec cooldown for Shinra Tensei is over.

[shuha27]

Nagato wins this! His abilites can easily counter most of the Tsuchikage's ability.

[Shaunlim]

I don't see how Oonoki is winning this. Anything he can throw at Nagato can simply be absorbed or ST-ed. If Oonoki even decides to come close to petrify Nagato, he's going to get stabbed and get overwhelmed by Nagato's chakra at close range or gets his soul absorbed. If he decides to fly and throw stuff at Nagato, Nagato have his summons to protect him, he can levitate himself or CT him. Basically anything that Oonoki can do, Nagato have shown to be able to counter.

[bhasty]

So you have accurate measurements of the Island and Konoha to prove this claim? Yea, you don't..

Wow.. i think you should see it for yourself.. and measure the turtle island and the konoha.. and btw, don't forget to measure the forest where nara clan lived..


It's a ninja village. Not a ninja city. And there are many islands throughout the world that are bigger than even the biggest cities in the world in terms of their total area, so this is an absurd claim..

I know that.. but the turtle island that you're talking to isn't that kind of a big island..


On top of that, Onoki's jutsu vaporize stuff. Shinra Tensei and Chibaku Tensei merely move things, so it terms of killing power, Onoki's are superior to Nagato's..

merely move things.? yeah.. by destroying everything and turn them to dust.. and pulled everything to create a mini moon.. Does it look like merely move things from your opinion.?

does oonoki can make his dust release technique as big as konoha.?

superior huh.?


And the Kyuubi isn't enough to defeat Nagato? Re-read the manga, because the 8 tailed Kyuubi form was about to ass-rape Deva and everything in it's path until Minato stepped in to repair the seal. And I'll wait if Sasuke ever fights Nagato to prove just how well the MS, or in his case EMS is prepared to handle Nagato.

The 8 tailed kyubi form was about to ass-rape deva.? really.? how.? by breathing a bigger fire inside of the Chibaku tensie.? and oh, by the way, deva said that he need to create a bigger chibaku tensie, does the kyubi can even escape from that technique..

and what about the GM.? Does the kyubi has a chance from that statue.? how about the GM dragon.? the GM 7 dragons.?

And sasuke, even if he has the EMS, but still it's not enough to defeat nagato.. nagato has the power to moot sasuke's ninjutsu.. Sasuke's MS power can't really do a thing against nagato...

[Deepak5191]

I'm not voting on this one yet. How does one defend against an island falling on one's head?

With Chibaku Tensei of course. How silly of you to forget that the Rinnegan can make moons after taking down a whole village and fighting the Kyuubi and still have enough left over for a mass ressurection. Seriously Nagato is way too hax, that's an absurd amount of chakra.

Oonoki is a hell of a stronger ninja, one of the strongest we've seen despite all his moaning. But he simply doesn't have the skillset to match Nagato's nor the fluffy personality of Naruto's to convince Nagato to kill himself.

Oonoki at long range: harassed by summons, not much to attack Nagato with.
Oonoki at mid range: risk of getting hit by ST or BT, or even more deadly, by CT.
Oonoki at close range: best chance of using Dust Release, but also highest chance of being one shot by Nagato through chakra rods (messes up chakra), soul absorption, having his jutsu's absorbed etc.

[shuha27]

Oonoki won't even have access to an island....

[M3J]

I'm not voting on this one yet. How does one defend against an island falling on one's head?

Nagato can shinra tensei it away or use chibaku tensei to move away towards the ball.

[ninjabot]

Actually, Oonoki doesn't have to lift an island. He could just atomize it with his Dust Cone that he was gonna use to destroy the turtle island. That was the argument earlier, that we were told Oonoki's attack would obliterate the island, so it's atleast close if not equal to Chou Shinra Tensei.

[Delbi]

Wow.. i think you should see it for yourself.. and measure the turtle island and the konoha.. and btw, don't forget to measure the forest where nara clan lived..
I know that.. but the turtle island that you're talking to isn't that kind of a big island..


Look at what part of Konoha was destroyed. The Nara Forest is within Fire Country, not within the walls of Konoha, the village. Pain's technique didn't even destroy the entire village, it blew apart roughly 75% of it if you look at the crater it made. As for the Island, it had an entire Forest on top of it with countless animals inside of it I'd say it's at has at least the same area as Konoha.



merely move things.? yeah.. by destroying everything and turn them to dust.. and pulled everything to create a mini moon.. Does it look like merely move things from your opinion.?

does oonoki can make his dust release technique as big as konoha.?

superior huh.?

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Shinra Tensei destroys things because it moves them with extreme force. It is a gravitational/force jutsu, it does merely move things, it simply moves them very hard and fast. If it destroyed things like you said everytime it was used on a human body they would have been blown to bits.

And Onoki can make a Dust Technique strong enough to destroy Turtle Island, so if Nagato decides to use CT, why can't Onoki just nuke him along with the jutsu?



The 8 tailed kyubi form was about to ass-rape deva.? really.? how.? by breathing a bigger fire inside of the Chibaku tensie.? and oh, by the way, deva said that he need to create a bigger chibaku tensie, does the kyubi can even escape from that technique..

and what about the GM.? Does the kyubi has a chance from that statue.? how about the GM dragon.? the GM 7 dragons.?

And sasuke, even if he has the EMS, but still it's not enough to defeat nagato.. nagato has the power to moot sasuke's ninjutsu.. Sasuke's MS power can't really do a thing against nagato...

Nagato said he could make a bigger CT, you are correct....except he was killing himself to just maintain the one he currently had, and the Kyuubi hadn't even unleashed it's full power yet. THe 8 Tailed Kyuubi did escape the technique, and there is no reason to believe it couldn't launch a menacing ball at Deva and obliterated him.

And GM vs. the Kyuubi? I'll take the Kyuubi every damn day. It's the most powerful being in the Naruto verse after the Juubi.

As for Sasuke with EMS, Nagato can't stop everything, if he could he wouldn't have lost his legs to Hanzo. And Nagato has no counter from Tsyukiyomi. AND Sasuke has shown much better battle tactics and strategy than Nagato. So yes, Sasuke is fully capable of defeating just Nagato.

---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------

Also something to wonder about, not that we'll ever know. Onoki, just like Nagato, can control gravitational forces. What would stop him from negating ST, BT, or CT?

[hakuthehedgehog]

The only jutsu that can harm Nagato from Oonoki is (maybe) the one that turns people into stone and it requires physical contact.

Nagato can use ST, BT, CT summons and rods to kill Oonoki.

I don't see Oonoki touching Nagato, so yeah, I'm pretty sure Nagato wins.

[bhasty]

Look at what part of Konoha was destroyed. The Nara Forest is within Fire Country, not within the walls of Konoha, the village. Pain's technique didn't even destroy the entire village, it blew apart roughly 75% of it if you look at the crater it made. As for the Island, it had an entire Forest on top of it with countless animals inside of it I'd say it's at has at least the same area as Konoha..

Noh.. the konoha is much more bigger than turtle island..


You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Shinra Tensei destroys things because it moves them with extreme force. It is a gravitational/force jutsu, it does merely move things, it simply moves them very hard and fast. If it destroyed things like you said everytime it was used on a human body they would have been blown to bits..

It depends on the level of ST.. Well, it doesn't matter anyway, oonoki's dust release technique is still useless to nagato's ST..


And Onoki can make a Dust Technique strong enough to destroy Turtle Island, so if Nagato decides to use CT, why can't Onoki just nuke him along with the jutsu?.

If nagato decides to use CT, then oonoki will be going to be pulled by that jutsu.. and im pretty sure oonoki's technique wil also be pulled by CT.. CT has the power of gravity to pulled anything within the reach into the center..


Nagato said he could make a bigger CT, you are correct....except he was killing himself to just maintain the one he currently had, and the Kyuubi hadn't even unleashed it's full power yet. THe 8 Tailed Kyuubi did escape the technique, and there is no reason to believe it couldn't launch a menacing ball at Deva and obliterated him..

The kyubi did escape the CT but it was only because of his size that got bigger.. NOthing more..



As for Sasuke with EMS, Nagato can't stop everything, if he could he wouldn't have lost his legs to Hanzo. And Nagato has no counter from Tsyukiyomi. AND Sasuke has shown much better battle tactics and strategy than Nagato. So yes, Sasuke is fully capable of defeating just Nagato..

Nagato can stop everything with his rinnegan's power..

your example is ridiculous.. Nagato is just a child at that time when he lost his legs(?).. And maybe you're forgetting something that he save/lift konan from being hit with that exploding tag..

Nagato has no counter to sasuke's tsukuyomi.? Does sasuke's tsukuyomi is strong enough to break nagato's spirit.?

And Sasuke has shown much better battle tactics and strategy than Nagato.? really.? how.? by spamming his MS power.? Maybe you're forgetting somthing that sasuke strategy and battle tactics has been change to spamming his MS..

Sasuke isn't capable of defeating nagato right now.. Even if he has the EMS..


Also something to wonder about, not that we'll ever know. Onoki, just like Nagato, can control gravitational forces. What would stop him from negating ST, BT, or CT? .

Well, my opinion is oonoki can't do that trick.. Nagato's gravitational power is the rinnegan's power.. A higher level of gravitational power that far more powerful than a normal ninja's gravitational power..

does the amaterasu, one of the MS power, can be counter by any suiton or more powerful fire jutsu of ordinary ninja.? No..

So it goes the same as the rinnegan's power..

[Delbi]

Nagato can stop everything with his rinnegan's power..

Hahaha you are so ignorant it isn't even funny. For funs sake I'll respond to a few of your claims, but aside from that there's no point in continuing discussing anything with you due to what you said above.



your example is ridiculous.. Nagato is just a child at that time when he lost his legs(?).. And maybe you're forgetting something that he save/lift konan from being hit with that exploding tag..

Still proves that Nagato can't stop everything, he isn't invincible. And he wasn't a child, look at how old he was, he was at the very least in his late teens more like he was around his mid twenties.

Want me to prove he isn't invincible? Sasuke fires Sussano's Arrow at Nagato. He Repels with ST. While the Five Second cool down time goes Sasuke already summoned a massive amount of kunai and explosive tags which he uses to thus blow Nagato to bits.



Nagato has no counter to sasuke's tsukuyomi.? Does sasuke's tsukuyomi is strong enough to break nagato's spirit.?

Does Nagato have a Sharigan? Is he a jinchuriki? Answer to both is no, so if he takes Tsukuyomi he's either going to be fooled and get killed by Sasuke like Danzou did, or he's going to suffer from extreme mental stress and be in shit coniditon for the rest of the fight.



And Sasuke has shown much better battle tactics and strategy than Nagato.? really.? how.? by spamming his MS power.? Maybe you're forgetting somthing that sasuke strategy and battle tactics has been change to spamming his MS..

Well shit, Sasuke not only dismantled Diedara and Danzou but he's shown us on nearly every occasions that he finds ways to win fights with his intelligence. He has MS, why not use it?

Also, Sasuke has been called a genius by multiple people, for numerous things, he was also called a genius before he ever had the Sharigan. Did anyone ever call Nagato a genius? No, no one did, not even Jiraiya or trained the greatest genius of them all in Minato.



A higher level of gravitational power that far more powerful than a normal ninja's gravitational power..

Oonoki is only the second ninja ever to have a Bloodline Expansion. So he isn't a normal ninja by any means. In fact, more people (3)(Sage, Nagato, and Madara) have had the Rinnegan than have had a Bloodline Expansion (2) (Oonoki and Muu).

[hakuthehedgehog]

Are we sure that Oonoki's flying abilities are due to gravitational powers? I thought they were an application of his dust techniques.

Also, even though Oonoki can fly, he would still feel the force of ST, which could trigger a back pain episode, leaving him open.

[mattiaildivino]

there was already a thread in the Konohagakure Arena where there was the question: who would win in the fight 5 kages VS 6 pain? and the answer was that the kages would have won. Nagato is stronger than the 6 pains and here we have just one of the kage,who isn't the stronger after all. Nagato wins easily.

[Delbi]

Are we sure that Oonoki's flying abilities are due to gravitational powers? I thought they were an application of his dust techniques.

Also, even though Oonoki can fly, he would still feel the force of ST, which could trigger a back pain episode, leaving him open.

Dust techniques apprently give the user control over matter and forces it would seem. I can't think of another way a jutsu would allow you to fly unless it had to do with Futon.

And yea, Ookoki would probably be grabbing his back complaining if he got hit with ST lol.

[Aikidoka]

I want to say Oonoki, but unfortunately we haven't seen enough from him. So his Jinton can OHKO Nagato's bodies, but as long as he does what Jiraiya did and keep the Hell one ready to restore any that die, Nagato is likely to land a fatal hit long before Oonoki figures his secret out (one of the restrictions of this tournament I believe).

[jdw]

Nagato does not have Pain. He is fighting as himself with his legs healed and combat ready. He has his Pain abilities, with the exception of the robotic abilities of Asura realm.

[EMS]

i haven't see so much of Oonoki, beside that he is old and always complain about his body but his Jinton is something else but so far from what i saw from nagato(pain 6 bodies) and his raw power, nagato is on of the most powerful shinobi so far in the manga with that raw power so i give to nagato until i see more of Oonoki.

[bhasty]

Hahaha you are so ignorant it isn't even funny. For funs sake I'll respond to a few of your claims, but aside from that there's no point in continuing discussing anything with you due to what you said above..

Am i.? you're a little rude, aren't you..? well, let see if who's really the ignorant between the 2 of us.. shall i continue.? ok.. next verse..


Still proves that Nagato can't stop everything, he isn't invincible. And he wasn't a child, look at how old he was, he was at the very least in his late teens more like he was around his mid twenties..

No.. He was the same as naruto at that time..

So maybe sasuke is an idiot and not that fast for the reason that lee was kick his butt and made his sharingan a useless..?

He wasn't a child.? read again the conversation of naruto and nagato.. Nagato even said that they're just a child at that time when they where trick by hanzo..

well, maybe it was a mistranslation.. maybe it was " We're just a teens at that time when hanzo trick us"..


Want me to prove he isn't invincible? Sasuke fires Sussano's Arrow at Nagato. He Repels with ST. While the Five Second cool down time goes Sasuke already summoned a massive amount of kunai and explosive tags which he uses to thus blow Nagato to bits..

So, after the ST, nagato will going to stand still and wait for sasuke to attack him with A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF KUNAI AND EXPLODING TAGS..? wow.. judging from your statement, i think you're the ignorant one.. don't get me wrong buddy.. you're out of line..

Nagato has the six power of rinnegan to choose from.. who mastered the 6 elements, who has a higher level of ninjutsu and what.? a super duper big summon.. how many.? 5 or 6.. so how can sasuke will deal with that summon.?

Going by your logic, nagato has just only one power.. the ST.. so after that one, he was a child and a useless ninja to sasuke.. wow..


Does Nagato have a Sharigan? Is he a jinchuriki? Answer to both is no, so if he takes Tsukuyomi he's either going to be fooled and get killed by Sasuke like Danzou did, or he's going to suffer from extreme mental stress and be in shit coniditon for the rest of the fight..

No.. BUt he has the rinnegan that's more powerful than sharingan.. not enough..?

So if he takes the tsukuyomi, what kind of fooled he will get.? tied in the cross while sasuke stabbing him..?

And by the way, do you have a proof that the real nagato can be caught by genjutsu/tsukuyomi.?


Well shit, Sasuke not only dismantled Diedara and Danzou but he's shown us on nearly every occasions that he finds ways to win fights with his intelligence. He has MS, why not use it?.

Come on.. every ninja can do that.. It was a common sense and a basic knowledge that every ninja finds ways to win fights with their intelligence..

So, do you think sasuke will going to fight anyone right now the way he fought deidara.? Hell no.. So, spamming his MS power is a great strategy.? ok..


Also, Sasuke has been called a genius by multiple people, for numerous things, he was also called a genius before he ever had the Sharigan. Did anyone ever call Nagato a genius? No, no one did, not even Jiraiya or trained the greatest genius of them all in Minato..

No one.. because nagato is a god in his village.. And jiraiya never called nagato a genius.. But he called him the destined child and savior of the world.. Who has the power to destroy everything and turn them to dust.. even your greatest uchiha..

So, sasuke is a genuis(?) and nagato is a GOD..

now, who's more awesome.? a genius or a GOD.?

[insid3rkill3r]

As far as we know Nagato isnt immune to genjtutsu, his bodies were trapped by the frog song, it was his chakra in the rods and powering the body, so he clearly isnt immune to it.

Either way it's Tsuchikage vs Nagato, i say Nagato wins this.

[Xcutive]

Agreed. Sorry Oonoki, but you just have the wrong arsenal against you're opponent. Maybe if you were a genius in genjutsu or a S/T user, you'd have a chance.

[Raizen]

People are REALLLLYY into aesthetics. Just because they see that a ninja can blow up a huge area, of lightning light kirin damaging a big place, etc they think that makes them automatically powerful. Look at Minato, the guy hasn't shown any massive scale techniques yet, but he can easily be argued as the best ninja in the series.

Tsuchikage has the massive attacks going for him... great. But nagato is a monster powerhouse. The guy is literally one of the strongest ninjas out there. Anything tsuchikage attempt will be easily countered.

Nagato wins

[MONKEYS]

Let's not forget that Nagato is essentially the Amekage [Rain shadow, I think] (unofficially).

So it's essentially a kage-kage battle. It really comes down to who is more resilient, as I think it would come down to them both clashing with their respective final attacks.
Oonoki: His Jinto that can destroy an entire island
Nagato: Widespread Shinra Tensei
So yeah, I'd give it to Nagato (I assume he's not confined to his wheelchair/walker thing)

[xXan]

@bhasty


He wasn't a child.? read again the conversation of naruto and nagato.. Nagato even said that they're just a child at that time when they where trick by hanzo..

well, maybe it was a mistranslation.. maybe it was " We're just a teens at that time when hanzo trick us"..

He was refering to his mental state. Back then he was a child because he still belived in people, in what JMan belived, then pain maide him grow up.



And by the way, do you have a proof that the real nagato can be caught by genjutsu/tsukuyomi.?

That is not how it works, you need to prove that he is.


So, sasuke is a genuis(?) and nagato is a GOD..

now, who's more awesome.? a genius or a GOD.?

Nagato was God only in his delusions, after Naruto saved him with that book Nagato even stated that perhaps this is the will of the REAL God.

@MONKEYS


I assume he's not confined to his wheelchair/walker thing

He is not, look at the rules. He has fullly working legs.

[bhasty]

@bhasty

He was refering to his mental state. Back then he was a child because he still belived in people, in what JMan belived, then pain maide him grow up .

Yeah.. i agree..

But saying that nagato doesn't have any battle strategy/tactics because he lost his legs at the time he was trick by hanzo is really a ridiculous..

[xXan]

Yeah.. i agree..

But saying that nagato doesn't have any battle strategy/tactics because he lost his legs at the time he was trick by hanzo is really a ridiculous..

Yeah i fully agree there. That was not even a trick worth mentioning. Hanzou just forced Nagato into saving his friend. If that was a real fight Nagato would have never eneded up in those tags as he would not even have to move from 1 spot. Also lots of great Manga names got tricked 1 way or another. Nobody is perfect.

[Liof]

Nagato takes this I think, although it all depends on if the the flying is ST resistant or not. (although i believe it's not)
Btw, did nagato fly or did he just use his gravity with the 'god' body. Also does he have his summons, and are those puppies killed with the atomsmash attack.

[Gats]

Nagato wins !