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HegemonKhan
June 19, 2011, 03:38 AM
Character Name: Rafaela

Gender: Female

Character Title: The Assassin of the Organization

Claymore Type 1: Claymore

Claymore Type 2: Offensive

Status: Deceased

Rank: 2

Era: Luciela's

Family: older sister Luciela

Home Town:

Personality:

Abilities:

(discuss Rafaela)

Khorr
August 15, 2011, 11:56 AM
The original discussion started on the Ophelia thread.

But basicly here's my question. In chapter 92 we seen Clare dying first on her first attempt when she fought the dreamt version Rafaela then won the second time when she used the quicksword. Is the dreamt version as powerful as the real Rafaela in flesh and blood, or is she a depowered verson made using Clare's memory. What would of happend if Clare fought Rafaela in the real world? Who would prevail. Lets hear it!

My personal openion is that the illusion of Rafaela was based on Clare's memory and lack the skills, techniques and knowledge the real Rafaela had. Since Clare never fought Rafaela in the real world and wouldn't know of her powers to incoporate it in to the Rafaela illusion. I also noticed inconsistencies inside the dream, things that should be there but wasn't, stuff that can't happen but did.

First thing is, Clare's right arm look exactly the same as Clare's left arm. It wasn't covered by straps. In the real world Rafaela would of noticed Clare's right arm was from Ilena right away, since before Clare start wearing her new Ghost uniforms, her right arm was always very noticeably diffrent then her left. I also think Rafaela would of been able to sense that it was Ilena's right arm just because Rafaela was extremely good at sensing yoki.

Second, I noticed in chapter 92. Rafaela's sword actually broked in to at least two pieces, when the quicksword sliced her up. A claymore was suppose to be indestructable, never getting a chipped or known to break the last time I checked.

I think if Rafaela would of fought Clare in the real world.... Clare would of died because Rafaela wouldn't and couldn't give her the second chance unlike in the dream.

eefrit
August 15, 2011, 02:26 PM
"Rafaela" was Rafaela. Claire's mind gave it an appearance, however it still was Rafaela. It had her memories, which includes how strong she was and her fighting techniques. Basically, it was a combination of the two thoughts. Meaning that, for all intents and purposes, this fight was Claire vs. Rafaela. The Destoyer wasn't manipulating Claire's mind, Claire, like Renee before her, had traveled into the Destroyer's mind, albeit unwillingly. Rafaela never had control of the body, had it not been for Claire that conscious would have been lost in the awakening. This in turn made Claire pass out and fuse with the Destroyer, which is why she lost her sword and clothes. Even if she was fighting in an off scene battle, I doubt she would have brought out enough power to keep the Destroyer from awakening.

Like I mentioned here, I believe that the conscious was a combination of both Rafaela's and Clarie's mind. Claire subconsciously recognized it as Rafaela's mind and gave it an appearance, but Rafaela's mind gave it "depth" so to speak. It was an "imprint' of how strong she knew she was and how she fought, considering it was her part of the memory.

I have never noticed the details of Irene's arm to notice the difference between it and Claire's left arm, but I would assume that after seven years of using it, she and it would have adapted to each other. That being said, if it was Pre-Ghost Claire, Rafaela would have noticed the difference right away. But if Rafaela is fighting Ghost Claire, it may take more time to actually notice something strange or foreign in the arm. I do agree however, that Rafaela would not have hesitated in a fight in the real world, though I don't know who would win.

HegemonKhan
August 15, 2011, 07:50 PM
(the Illusion of) "Rafaela" is no more Rafaela than (the Illusion of) "Hilda" is Hilda, lol.

"Hilda" was the TAIT, as AWAKENED Hilda IS LONG DEAD

"Rafaela" was the Awakening Destroyer from the *CHAIN-HANGING HALF-MERGED BODIES OF R+DEAD L FROM THE CASTLE CEILING, MEANING INSIDE OF THE CASTLE*

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Rafaela was as powerful as Luciela, and Clare herself said that Riful would tear herself (Clare) to pieces, so in other words:

Clare has to be as powerful as a rank 1, like Luciela, in order to have a chance against Rafaela, and Clare herself tells us that she is NOT at a rank 1's power level yet, unless she means in her NON-YR state or NON-Partially Awakened state, lol.

Also, don't forget that Irene herself said Rafaela would have pwned her even if she had both arms still, so unless Clare's now more powerful than Irene, Rafaela would pwn Clare.

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here are some of my notes/files/posts/papers about Rafaela:

(some of these are quite old, lol)




it's fan-speculation on my part, but Rafaela's "feats" can't be ignored:

1A. Rubel tells us that Rafaela is as powerful as her older sister Luciela. Unfortunately, we don't know if he means Claymore Luciela or AO Luciela. At the very least, Rafaela is a rank 1, like Luciela was, or Rafaela can be even more powerful than AO Luciela!

1B. I do NOT accept that Luciela is the weakest of the 3 original AOs, the "Unholy Trinity" -hehe- (Isley, Riful, and Luciela), as she battled Isley to a draw, actually Isley was damaged and unable to chase after her (maybe even being slower then she is, and thus futile to chase after her, because if he was faster than Luciela or if he had enough yoki/energy left, then why would he not "run down" Luciela and kill her off?), whereas I don't think she was damaged by him at all (correct me if wrong), and Isley was as sapped/drained/exhausted of Yoki/energy as she was, if not more so...

2. Rafaela did not fear AO Luciela (nor Irene nor Clare+Jean), she could be sent to Assassinate anyone by Rubel, so she must have been that powerful.

Now, we don't know if Rafaela ever actually fought/engaged against Luciela when she Awakened at the Org HQs, maybe she did, or maybe she (and Luciela) didn't attack/fight each other. We don't know.

But, Rafaela sure had confidence going to Luciela after the Pieta Battle, with Isley and Priscilla right near by.

And, if Galatea speaks true, Rafaela (along with Renee) were spying on the Pieta Battle, unknown to everyone. What if Rafaela could have been sensed (she couldn't be due to her NYS status... but what about Renee?... hehe), so I'd say she must have been powerful enough to take on at least Rigardo, if not Isley as well... but not Priscilla... Rafaela's not that powerful... right?... gulp.... :D

3. as has been mentioned above, Rafaela was "The Assassin of the Organization (well, Rubel's Assassin actually, hehe)", she was that powerful and had the NYS status as well, indeed making her the perfect "Assassin", to kill off who knows how many top ranked/powerful Claymores... that the "purifying" "Spiderman" male AB couldn't handle or nor hard enough missions to kill of them.

4. Rafaela partly resulted in the powerful Destroyer, so Rafaela must have been powerful herself.

5. Rafaela, even as an offensive type, could even Regenerate the difficult eyes (but she CHOSE not to Regenerate her damaged/missing eye).

6. Rafaela WAS a VERY POWERFUL YOKI USER!

A. Soul Link

B. Powerful Yoki Sensing

(she hunted down Irene and Clare+Jean easily, once Irene released her yoki to do her Quick Sword, and according to Galatea she had secretly spied on the Pieta Battle as well. Not to mention, that she immediately sensed/recognized Trainee Teresa's true Power Level, which NO ONE else could do...)

C. Mind Transfer (saving herself by putting herself/her mind inside of poor Clare's head/brain/mind)

D. She WAS able to challenge the Destroyer, despite saying that it was too powerful for her, breaking through, to warn and save Clare's life.

E. She was able to attempt the "God-Like" whatever she was actually performing "with what Rubel had taught her about doing in regards to Luciela" with dead Luciela's corpse, which she failed and incompleted resulting in her merely being half-merged with dead Luciela's corpse and somehow resulting in the creation of the Destroyer within her head/brain/mind.

F. She's the oldest or longest living Claymore, even still now in ch 113 - I think.

G. Regeneration (as mentioned already above)


Chapter 50 page 11

Rafaela is the best at surpressing her yoki aura according to Rubel, DUE ONLY to her years of exile/banishment and of not using her yoki for years, NYS (natural yoki suppression).


since many of the Claymores i like are taken, then i'll take a Claymore that i like a lot, which isn't taken yet..

me: Rafaela

why (about Rafaela):

Rafaela is the oldest and thus most experienced and knowledgable Claymore. She has survived longer then any other Claymore. According to Rubel, as a Claymore she is as powerful as her Awakened AO rank 1 sister Luciela. This would make her actually more powerful then AO Luciela, if Rafaela were to awaken herself. She is so powerful that she is made into the Organization and/or Rubel's personal Assassin. From rank 2 Quick Sword Irene to HA Clare and HA JEan to AO Luciela, Rafaela doesn't "bat an eye". She can find and kill all of them with ease. Rafaela has incredible power/ability with using yoki. She with her sister Luciela were the first to attempt the Soul Link. Rafaela was the one assigned to maintain the Soul Link, which she could easily due, however the Soul Link also required perfect synchronization as well. Which, she didn't have with her sister, so ONLY because of this did the Soul Link fail. Not only able to do the Soul Link, Rafaela attempted NEVER BEFORE SEEN YOKI ABILTIES. MIND TRANSFERANCE, which she WAS SUCCESSFUL AT. Also, a godlike "Revival Link" ability, trying to bring her dead sister back to life, though she failed at this. Also, Rafaela had been keeping BOTH her yoki and Luciela's yoki suppressed for all this time, in hopes of being able to meet with Luciela and UNDO Luciela's Awakening. Due to the loss/Awakening of her sister, Rafaela has become completely cold and mercilous. She doesn't think twice about assassinating her fellow Claymores as she is ordered to do so by the Organization and/or Rubel. Her missing eye with an asterisks or star like healing of it, defines her. Rafaela is truly "more then meets eye" well beyond her current rank of #5. She is holding much secrets, abilities, and powers. No one realizes just whom she really is and how far back she goes. Rafaela is a very dark mysterious Claymore, whom you don't want to meet in the middle of the night or even in the middle of the day, if you're on her "kill list".


FOUND IT! WOOT! It was actually Riful whom explains it to us!

ch. 82 pages 8-9, 24-31

specifically: ch. 82 page 27

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what I found so far:

a small suggestion of it: ch 64 page 22

(ch 64 pages 26-35 has the Rafaela killing Luciela scene)

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* ch 64 page 21 says (Rubel says/offers/bribes/blackmails) merely information on Abysaal One Luciela, not saying anything about the information being on/about Luciela's location.

* ch 64 page 15: LOL! Rafaela places her hand on trainee Teresa's head, and is able to accurately sense trainee Teresa's power, and then look at her facial expressions (it's like Renee's when she finally sensed Priscilla's power level, hehe!). LOL! Then, Rafaela covers her head with her hood and walks away... saying... please let me live... please let me live... I rank 1 Rafaela don't want to be killed by a dammned trainee! lol. -my speculative dramatization, only:D


Maybe this was Rafaela speaking through Clare's lips, saying that the Destroyer was a division of herself-Rafaela (and her dead sister Luciela), and Deneve had no idea, and wondered why Clare would say this, lol. So, Rafaela (inside Clare), had to stop the Destroyer, as her last duty.

Also, maybe it's possible that Rafaela mind transfered herself back into the Destroyer, and has taken control of it, using it to protect/save Clare, and Clare's fellow Claymores, and to attack Priscilla with it!


Chapter 61 page 12:

Renee and Rafaela are watching the 24 Claymores in Pieta


you actually make an interesting points in your comments of Rafael+Teresa.

Teresa:

1. could have killed an Abyssal One (an awakened rank 1 claymore), Rosemary, with 0% yoki with ease.

We know this is true, because the current ultimate being, Priscilla, was only 1/7 or 1/8 of Teresa's power. While we don't know how powerful Rosemary was, she certainly is not more powerful then Priscilla. Priscilla was the only one that required/forced Teresa to use yoki (10+ %) against. Teresa did not need any yoki against Rosemary.

2. as a trainee, Teresa was able to sense Rafaela's yoki despite her (Rafaela's) natural yoki suppression due to being an "exile/banished" and not using her yoki for some years.

This actually shows that Teresa does have very good yoki power/abilities. Maybe this is just her PYS ability at work or maybe Teresa has great yoki power/abilities besides just her PYS ability.

An unknown is whether Teresa only sensed Rafaela's yoki when they were next to each other or if Teresa had actually sensed Rafaela's yoki from the Org HQs and Teresa was curious about it, which is why she "ran away", to go meet Rafaela.

3. as a trainee, Teresa defied the Org and the Black Coats repeatedly, by running away from the Org HQ numerous times.

This shows that Teresa did not fear the Org or the Black Coats, somewhat.

4. as a trainee, Teresa ran away from the Org HQ numerous times. This was very dangerous due to wild animals and roaming yomas.

This shows that Teresa was indeed powerful even as a trainee.

However, trainee Teresa could just have avoided the yomas due to her powerful yoki abilities/power. Though, she'd still have to deal with/worry about wild animals. So, this still shows that Teresa was indeed powerful, even as a trainee.

Rafaela:

1. according to Rubel, Rafaela had the same power level as Luciela (the 3rd of the "unholy" trinity Abyssal Ones). Also, we see Beth being ~ = to Alicia in abilities/power level, so this likely means that sisters are equal in power, which supports Rafaela being as powerful as her sister Luciela.

What we don't know is if Rafaela is actually more powerful then Luciela or not. Was Rubel refering to Rafaela as she was, a Claymore (non-awakened), having equal power to her already awakened sister Luciela? If so, then this would mean that Rafaela is actually more powerful then Luciela. Or, was Rubel comparing their power levels if they were both awakeneds or still both Claymores? Which would just mean Rafaela is equal in power level to her sister Luciela.

2. Rafaela recognizes Teresa as a very powerful Claymore (Teresa is still a trainee though), and is very glad that Teresa doesn't have a sister.

This actually shows that Teresa does have very good yoki power beyond just her PYS ability. That Teresa could do the Soul Link, which is why Rafaela asked if Teresa had a sister.

3. Rafaela (using Clare's mouth/vocal cords) spoke audibly in awe about Alicia+Beth+Soul Link, especially towards Beth, fighting off in the distance against Riful+Dauf.

This shows that Alicia and Beth, especially Beth, was superior to Rafaela in terms of using yoki. Beth could maintain the Soul Link with Alicia as she dodged Dauf's attacks at her. Thus, we can say that Alicia and Beth are probably/likely more powerful then Rafaela.

If this is true, that Alicia and Beth are more powerful then Rafaela, then this supports Rafaela as having equal power to Luciela, and thus not greater power then Luciela.


I think the best reason:

Galatea didn't know that she was being spied on, so she never thought to try to sense Alicia+Beth yoki.

Also, being near Riful+Dauf yoki + those rods of Dauf in the cave above, probably prevent Galatea from sensing outside, thus she being unable to sense Alicia+Beth yoki.

so, maybe Alicia+Beth do not have that good of a yoki sensing...

I mean if they did, then why did they have to use/follow Galatea to find Riful (to spy on her during the Witches Maw section) and then had to use/follow the AFs to Riful to kill her (though they fail obviously, but Priscilla likely killed Riful instead).

though, this is biased of me, because I refuse to accept someone being a better Eye then "Blindness Enhanced + God Eye" Galatea, lol. Only Clare was seen as nearly matching Galatea, though this was way back during the multi-arm male AB battle, so who knows how Clare vs Galatea compare in terms of being Eyes, now.

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"But then again, Yoki suppression does seem to form part of the Soul-Link training judging from Rubel's comment about Rafaela not regenerating her eye after the Luciela incident. So it could be the Twins are yoki stealthed like Rafaela or the Ghosts and were actually well within Galatea's range but simply undetectable." -AKnight


1. Rafaela did not regenerate her eyes because she wanted it to be a reminder to herself, of her failure to save her beloved sister, and her 100% determination to rescue/save/de-awaken her beloved sister the next time they meet.

(this is why I feel Rafaela ruthlessly assassinated her own Claymores for Rubel/Organization despite the obvious blackmail being used by him/Organization using Luciela to get Rafaela into being their Assassin. Rafaela cared about her beloved sister more then anything or anyone else. Rafaela had no problem Assassinated every fellow Claymore if it meant that Rubel/Org would hopefully give her info-intel on Luciela's location. So, this is why I feel that Rafaela probably did kill Irene even without hesitation)

2. Yoki Suppression is in conflict with the Soul Link, lol. Resistance of yoki is yes indeed a part of the Soul Link, but NOT yoki suppression.

The point of the Soul Link is to Awaken (but controlling it or resisting the yoma side from taking over their brain/mind), not to suppress Awakening, not to suppress yoki.

Remember, the reason why it took Alicia+Beth such a long long long long time is because, they had to slowly increase their yoki (not suppress it) and try to control/resist it each time. This is why it took them just until Isley's 11 ABs were nearly upon the Org's HQ's "doorstep" to be able to release (not supress) 100% of their (well Alicia's) yoki and fully Awaken (Alicia).

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I haven't been able to re-find what I had thought I had read about how Rafaela was actually KEEPING Luciela's yoki as well as her own yoki, in hopes of somehow using it to de-awaken Luciela. Which, then makes sense with why trainee Teresa commented about Rafaela's strange yoki....

(because she was holding onto another's yoki, her sisters, inside her, as well as having her own yoki). I don't think that trainee Teresa was merely asking why Rafaela was suppressing yoki, as I would think even as a trainee, Teresa would know that all Claymores suppress their yoki, when not using it. (maybe I read this is a different translation, then what is the onemanga.com's translation used or I just can't find it yet or my mind is playing tricks on me and this never existed)

(though trainee Teresa wouldn't be aware that Rafaela has been "exiled/banished" from the Org and as a Claymore for a long time, and has thus developed her yoki suppress as a natural means, aka not using it for however long she has been "banished/exiled" for)

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WOW.....

I wonder.... do you think that trainee Teresa's encounter with Rafaela... caused Teresa to become distrusting of the Org and to hide her own yoki, like Rafaela was doing....


....HMMM.... this just might be possible... and not just coincidence... hehe.


Did Rafaela’s loss of one of her eyes, enhance her YSenA as well, like it did for Blind Galatea, One-Eyed Neideen, and One-Eyed Roxanne?



---------- Post added at 05:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------


Like I mentioned here, I believe that the conscious was a combination of both Rafaela's and Clarie's mind. Claire subconsciously recognized it as Rafaela's mind and gave it an appearance, but Rafaela's mind gave it "depth" so to speak. It was an "imprint' of how strong she knew she was and how she fought, considering it was her part of the memory.

I have never noticed the details of Irene's arm to notice the difference between it and Claire's left arm, but I would assume that after seven years of using it, she and it would have adapted to each other. That being said, if it was Pre-Ghost Claire, Rafaela would have noticed the difference right away. But if Rafaela is fighting Ghost Claire, it may take more time to actually notice something strange or foreign in the arm. I do agree however, that Rafaela would not have hesitated in a fight in the real world, though I don't know who would win.

my understanding:

1. Clare's mind + Destroyer's mind, made the Yoki Synchronization with each other (Clare+Teresa and Rafaela+Destroyer).

2. The Destroyer uses "Yoki Compulsion Ability" to force Clare to go to it, as Clare wanted to go back outside to save Yuma and cynthia from Riful+Dauf, lol.

3. The Destroyer used its "Mental Manpilation Ability" (same as Raftela's as she used against Miria) on Clare, but it could only gather bits and pieces from Rafaela's and Clare's minds, as pointed out by Khorr there's a lot of signifant inaccuracies in the "dream world").

4. (the Illusion of) "Rafaela" is fought over by Rafaela's mind and the Destroyer's mind, as they use "her" to "speak" to Clare's mind. You can see the differences.

5. The only way I can explain Clare's beheading not being her death, is that Clare's own mind (or Rafaela's mind helped Clare) imagined what would happen if she allowed herself to be killed, it wasn't actually happening in the "dream world", as she should be dead then, lol.

6. Clare's QS on "Rafaela" either failed to slice up the Awakening Destroyer, or it simply broke the Destroyer's mental control, allowing Clare to break free mentally from it, possibly symbolized by the breaking of "Rafaela's" (the Destroyer's) "claymore sword".

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I can go further, into more of my thoughts, but right now I'm tired, and this is good enough for now. If you want more of my thoughts or have questions/challenges, whatever, feel free to ask me, and I'll respond to whatever you want :D I'm just tired right now to add anything more.

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About Irene's arm:

it's actually INcompatable with Clare, as if you look at Partially Awakened Clare (both against Rigardo and again against Priscilla - I think - need to go back and check PA Clare against Priscilla as I'm not certain/wasn't paying attention), Clare's own left side is very different than Irene's right side, hehe :D

Clare's own (upper) left side:

1. the (shoulder) Huge Blade Arms looks like (demon) FLESH
2. If or before her arm became/split into the Huge Blade Arms, it first was a Huge Claw of Death (similar to Awakened Ophelia's hands).

(I need to go back and see if Clare keeps her left Huge Claw of Death arm or if it disappears when she goes into Huge Blade Arms mode, hehe)

Clare's Irene's (upper) right side:

1. the (shoulder) Huge Blade Arms looks like diamond-like or cellulose-like (plant/leaf-like)
2. the arm, only has smaller diamond-like or cellulose-like (plant/leaf-like) blades coming out of it, instead of Awakening as part of the Huge Blade Arms, the arm itself doesn't Awaken, and she continues to hold her sword with it.

Clare's Lower body:

strange hoof/hooved horse/bovine like legs, similar somewhat to Isley's....

no idea where/why (not in terms of needing their speed as that's "why", human child Clare realized she needed speed to defeat Priscilla, and that same need for speed was also needed against Rigardo, hehe) these came from... lol

ya, one of the few animals we've seen (at least in the anime anyways, I can't remember if Raki+Priscilla+Isley were riding the horses in the manga or not) were horses, and so Clare can be like... what's fast... a horse... okay I'll Awaken horse legs...

but still.. this isn't good enough.... for how/why/where she deicided to Awaken her horse/hoof/hooved/bovine legs... as she had never seen Centaur Isley...

Irene
December 23, 2013, 10:42 PM
I had a nice arm. Something like this might happen, though: http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/261/a/e/claymore_repaying_a_debt_by_aizhaodao-d5f6q59.jpg