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ghostexiled
July 03, 2011, 12:08 AM
This thread is for members to discuss their concerns and thoughts on what makes Fairy Tail weak as a story/series.

Since we have a number of members that are having some issues with the series... this thread is for them to talk about.

Please DO NOT start bashing or flaming in this thread. This is for members to constructively discuss what they think FT lacks.

Any posts that deviate into bashing or flaming... will be deleted and possibly given an infraction.

Please respect others and their views and keep this thread clean and fair.

Thanks!

White Silver King
July 03, 2011, 10:49 AM
It really only has one short-coming: The nakama power-boost crap. Besides that, the manga is fantastic. I compare it to the likes of a magical One Piece (a good thing IMO, I love One Piece). I understand it's a shonen manga, you cannot get into one without having to deal with the friendship ass kickings. But 99% of the battles in FT are won through them, and to me that shows a lack of writing skill and imagination. Mashima writes fantastic fight scenes and puts interesting twists in them quite often which I enjoy immensely. But he always concludes them with a non-sensical protagonist boost in strength which allows them to wtf-pwn their opponent. And even then I wouldn't have a problem with it if it didn't cause two things:

1) FT opponents are almost always hyped to a very exciting degree. Having them being plot no jutsued really detracts from their magical prowess and just leaves off with a disappointing antagonist which is number one pet peeve in literature.

2) It dramatically effects that plot in way that disallows the characters from growing mentally, emotionally, or in their abilities in any concrete and conceivable way. And that to me spells out a short winded manga, which is something I hope FT does not fall victim to.

Even with all this, the situation could be ameliorated to a significant extent, if Mashima didn't make the nakama-powerups so blatantly obvious. The situation just becomes incredibly difficult to ignore when the antagonist is standing there completely unharmed thus far with an enormous amount of magical power and long-ranged and incredibly damaging techniques and the protagonist just comes running at him surviving straight-up explosion and finishing him off with one single cut of a regular old sword because she's surrounded with imaginary pictures of her friends. That's just bad writing. I enjoy the feel and story of friendship driven plots, it's the reason I like mangas like Shaman King, One piece, etc so much. But they all used it to an extent and when they did it was at the very least backed up by common sense. Fairy Tail lacks that and I feel the story and plot suffer as a result.

Krono
July 03, 2011, 09:16 PM
The situation just becomes incredibly difficult to ignore when the antagonist is standing there completely unharmed thus far with an enormous amount of magical power and long-ranged and incredibly damaging techniques and the protagonist just comes running at him surviving straight-up explosion and finishing him off with one single cut of a regular old sword because she's surrounded with imaginary pictures of her friends. That's just bad writing.

Actually, that's bad reading on your part, not bad writing. The antagonist is standing there covered with wounds from a long battle that he started slightly injured, is exhausted, fighting beyond his limits, and just used an attack that required enough effort that it left him trembling and apparently moving slowly... twice.

White Silver King
July 04, 2011, 10:01 AM
Actually, that's bad reading on your part, not bad writing. The antagonist is standing there covered with wounds from a long battle that he started slightly injured, is exhausted, fighting beyond his limits, and just used an attack that required enough effort that it left him trembling and apparently moving slowly... twice.

My mistake. It's annoying when people have inconsistencies in their writing isn't it?

Krono
July 06, 2011, 09:52 PM
My mistake. It's annoying when people have inconsistencies in their writing isn't it?

Yep. Fortunately inconsistencies is generally not a major problem of Fairy Tail's. It usually only manifests in small things, like "since when was Magnolia next to a large body of water?", "didn't Nirvana have 8 legs not six?", "why does the guild hall seem so much bigger on the inside than it is on the outside?"

Quantized
July 09, 2011, 12:20 AM
This thread is for members to discuss their concerns and thoughts on what makes Fairy Tail weak as a story/series.

Since we have a number of members that are having some issues with the series... this thread is for them to talk about.

Please DO NOT start bashing or flaming in this thread. This is for members to constructively discuss what they think FT lacks.

Any posts that deviate into bashing or flaming... will be deleted and possibly given an infraction.

Please respect others and their views and keep this thread clean and fair.

Thanks!

Think all series have thier issues though, hehe :amuse

________________________________

What I don't like is that everyone on the good side alaways wins, it's a law of physics in Fairy Tail.
Im aware this is a shounen, but shounens should just not be "complicated", it's all fine if they have a good story-line and bad things can happend.

I think many manga-ka uses the "it's a shounen" excuse, including Fairy Tail, and don't make stories as epic as they truely can become, even for a shounen.

Sadness me abit everytime you see potential in a shounen story, the manga-ka even many times forshadow the story to become epic, but in the end, they just take the easy road...

What is it with manga-ka's and the shounen? what is their motivation behind writing a shounen to begin with? Too much bother and thats why they write a shounen? or, is it because they actually "burn" and "live" for thier stories and target groups?

exacta
July 09, 2011, 06:24 PM
Aside from the obvious, the nakama powerup BS, the other problem I have with FT, is really that sometimes Mashima's twists and storytelling just end up being really....lame.

That nakama powerups do fit into that category, but like I said that doesn't need to be explained at this point. I was thinking of other things. Like when Mistgun was revealed to have the same face as Gerard(how many characters are going to be a Siegheart clone in this manga), that was a big disappointment, and the Star Festival arc went down from there with Luxus being revealed to be a Dragonslayer, and then very predictably casting Fairy Law only for it to have an effect on absolutely no one. Or when Wendy's entire guild was revealed to be an illusion.....yeah thanks Mashima lol. Gildartz's epic speech about running away to Natsu only for Natsu to be like "LOL f%&k you Gildartz" every time he encountered a villain that should've been much stronger than him this arc.

Ultear becoming good RIGHT after her flashback just because shes in the ocean which is apparently now Ur just because she used Iced Shell. By being in the ocean she immediatley is able to see a flashback of what was really going on....what the hell??? That was lame, dumb, rushed, and he basically ruined a great villain that has been in the series for over 200 chapters in just a few pages.

Another recent example was the whole Zoldeo crap.....that was just bad. Capricorn was so cool, and had an epic magic. The fight looked so promising......then next chapter, its revealed that some DERP looking guy with a perm gone horribl wrong actually possessed Capricorns body, we don't get to see Capricorns badass human subordination magic at all as Mashima pretty much rushed through that, and then we learn that Capricorn is going to join up with Lucy without her having to do anything. All in one chapter. Capricorn had such potential to be a cool villain.....the idea of a Celestial Spirit deciding at some point that he hates being a "slave" to humans, being freed from that by Hades and then learning a kind of magic that can enslave humans instead would've been so poetic. But in one chapter, that was ruined. It's not like he couldn't have joined Lucy later after some change of heart anyway. Another thing, Lucy getting all the Stellar Spirits so easily, kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Or for example, Mashima overusing Makarov "dying". It was fine in the Phantom Lord arc, though the anime absolutely KILLED it by making him turn green. But then it showed up again in the Star Festival arc, where he became sick, and it looked as if he really was going to die but he didn't. And just recently, Makarov absolutely getting his ass handed to him......granted I really don't want Makarov to die, but Mashima trying to create tension in the plot by having Makarov be in bad condition during the arc only works once if hes not actually going to do it, and he's done it three times now. I suppose Makarov could still die this arc, but its very unlikely seeing as there has to be a Raven Tail arc at some point, and Makarov would have to be alive in order to explain the whole Makarov-Ivan-Luxus affair. Having him do it over and over again is repetitive, predictable, unoriginal, and boring since we know he's not really going to do it.

wooticus
July 10, 2011, 10:24 AM
Well i am personally not angered by the so called "friendship BS powerup" stuff. It was there from the beginning of the manga and which each and every arc it was getting clearer that it is the very core of this manga. I enjoy it, even if it feels the same in every arc.

But i totally agree with some points about lame twists that exacta mentioned, nut not with all.
One good example is the Makarov nearly dying theme. Well when Mashima introduced Makarov the guild master as one of the 10 holy mages and one of the most powerful of them he may not have known yet that it will cause him some serious problems - because basically he has to find a method of locking him out - he would just one hit most of the enemys, especially having fairy law.
well it's pretty easy to just send out a team on a mission and letting him stay at the guild. but the thing with him being sick and so on it's overused by now.

Well i really like Fairy Tail and i totally enjoy it as it is. But because this thread is called Weak Points i want to give some examples of minor issues that i didn't like.

- One major issue imho is that Fairy Tail was far too strong as a guild to begin with if you think about it with the knowledge we've got now. In the phantom arc the phantom guild was pretty confident to take out fairy tail and it was stated that phantom is indeed a big and powerful guild (well they got this walking guild with the giant cannon and those pretty badass magical weapons). they also had a good plan, luring makarov out to leech out his magical power. But they seemed to not have any intel at all about how powerful fairy tail is. They basically lost against Natsu, Elfman, Grey and Erza. Well maybe they knew about Evergreen, Bixlow, Freed, Laxus, Mystogan and Gildarts not being around, but they certainly couldn't be sure. So it seemed like Fairy Tail is by far the strongest guild around but information about that hasn't spread too wide.

- There is too less information about how the world of Fairy Tail works. You don't get any info about any other guild but Fairy Tail (or very very rarely) until they become totally involved in an arc. Moreover powerful mages don't seem to be to famous, guys like bluenote and gildarts don't seem to know each other. Looking at the information about Deliora from greys past or now meredys past it seems that in the world of FT villages and citys get destroyed by powerful magic but nobody really cares? Well Deliora might have been a monster but it freely walked around killing people, destroying cities. And even if it was one of zeref's monsters, even zeref himself got beaten someho so there have to be some mages who can actually defeat deliora.
All in all this is something that annoys me, it's like the first 400 chapters of Naruto. You know that there is much, much more in the world of that manga, so many guilds (the other hidden villages in Naruto), but you don't get to know anything about them.

- There are too many enemies who turn good. Gajeel, Juvia, Raijin Tribe, Laxus, Gerard, Ultear (not totally sure about that yet), Meredy, Pantherlily, the whole gang of erza's past, wally's brother, Lyon, you can also count Capricio in some kind of way. And Coco.
You can argue about some of those, but there are many names on the list. As an example i want to point out pantherlily. He was expelled from his home country because he brought a human baby in. This made him join the army of the humans (well ofc because he was a close friend of the prince, who vanished to earthland perhaps 10 years ago). He followed all instructions blindly and then suddenly he notices that he totally loves the exceed.

- And lastly: I think Mashina tries to give enemies a reason for their doing too often. Of course it doesn't make you a better person because you have a "reason" to do bad things - because they're are no reasons for such stuff. But he plays the card of the traumatic event in childhood too often. Well yeah, you can become a bad person because of the influence in your youth. But you don't throw that away in an instance.

- I don't like it when Mashima draws characters too much like caricatures. It's ok for me if it's done like in one piece, in which many characters don't have human proportions of such things. But if it only affects about one character per arc.. it's just strange. I can't name most of them, but there are wally with this edgy face and his brother. Then there are a few fairy tail mages (the painter and the one with the strange mouth) and some more.

tobeulp
July 13, 2011, 09:42 PM
I would say that Fairy Tail is one of the current manga that is best on starting to build up an arc why I said that because the epicness the current arc get on its starting chapters become its greatest weakness mainly because us readers expect the arc to be consistently epic but from the past previous chapters it started to decline and our expectation is ruined...
Mashima can draw a great starting arc plot but can't be consistent until the end it is the same on most of Fairy Tail arc IMO.

winterwyrm
July 15, 2011, 09:05 PM
Well, we can all agree about the random powerups and unrealistic immortality of the good guys, and things always just improbably working out for them, but in addition, he tends to be a bit uncreative with his bad guys, many of them are almost exactly copied over from Rave, powers and everything, or will swap powers with a different character from rave.... Also, he tends to buff a powerful group, then introduce someone who is supposed to be so much better than the others but is really just a decoration in the story, i.e. blaine, zero, that cane guy, bluenote, the death pipe, well it's a long list, he tends to have a group who is just so powerful, then someone emerges who we have never heard of before who is supposed to be unstoppable, who the others are nothing compared to, then turns out to contribute little to nothing to the plot, and does two moves max (I think blaine did three).

MechR
July 31, 2011, 12:01 AM
Oh and if you guys are man enough to complain here go complain to Mashima in person, like his blog or twitter or w/eThe thought has crossed my mind. I would actually love to send him some negative feedback on this, because he's obviously not getting enough hate mail to change his ways, and his editor seems asleep at the wheel. Unfortunately, Mashima doesn't have any online presence AFAICT. I already looked for them back during the earthquake/tsunami when people didn't know if he was alive, but couldn't find anything.

ca12nag3
July 31, 2011, 08:31 AM
We only criticize because we care for the manga. Those manga/works we not care, we don't invest time on posting/thinking at all. (Bleach is for me one of those cases. Week after week I could only complain, to a point the author forced me to drop the manga completely.) No-one can expect from any fan to always like a chapter. There is no manga or work in general which can provide that. So plz stop asking to not criticize. Last time I checked this is a discussion thread, not a fanboy thread.

Anyway my personal thoughts, I didn't like the chapter. It started out nice, but unfortunately once again it is this always repetitive pattern. Thinking back, I would have wanted that Makarov didn't lose poorly like that. It made Hades way too overpowered, and now seeing his facial expression in this chapter is just weird. I feel like Mashima is not thinking clearly a few steps ahed, if it comes to fighting and powerlvls. This is just another chapter supporting that.

I understand where you are comming from. However talking trash about the author as if you got a right to do so is missplaced. (some people do this). And then there is the target group he writes for which isnt us. So some distance should be kept to what you believe should be happening and what the target group is expecting.

What do the kids want to read is eventually what will be written. Now as long as the author stays in that line of thought i think there is nothing wrong with the said manga.
I have been critical about some manga before but i always try to keep that in mind.

Now atm Natsu is getting a boost from his old rival/senpai Laxus this is within line with what to expect of this kind of story. So why do people call it inconsistent or lame of the author? < specifically when directed at the author.
If discussing events in the chapter keep it at what you expected and what you didnt expect without spitting in the authors face ^^"

ca12nag3
July 31, 2011, 01:51 PM
Ermm... I'm 17 yrs old but I know stuff about this. Please don't go thinking that teenagers don't know what's wrong with this. We do know and understand about the stuffs the adults complain about. I know other teens that also complains about this so Mashima really needs to change his ways.

I would definitely love to. I wanted to give him a message for a while now. But I don't know how and I doubt he'll pay attention.

The point is your on the edge of whats the original ment target group. That means its not really written for you and those above your age. You always have to keep that in mind when reading shonen. As far as anything being wrong with FT? You serious? This story is a hit in Japan and abroad. It has its own anime which got extended already. Apart from that volume sales are doing great as well as merchandise. So far you nor anyone here saying Mashima is lame or doesnt do this or that right is throwing a fit over nothing. Just because your wishes arn't met?

Im done discussing this, obviously nobody will listen. Also what i ment with my posts is that this thread isnt ment for this discussion in the first place. Want to complain find the thread its ment for. But most likely you wont get any backfire which you and others seek, thats why you come here and do it here. (speaking in general).

I was already back at discussing/talking about the current chapter so this is the last entry for this topic.

ShoobyDooBop
July 31, 2011, 05:18 PM
To all the complainers out there ( I'm one of you as well).
What is your reason to continue reading FT?
Despite my complaints, I still like it coz of the art. Of all the manga I've seen, Mashima's art is my favorite. It's cool. And I like some of the characters he creates, the others are just ok. At first, I did like Natsu but he's getting really corny. Another reason is, I like the magic powers. Mashima is really good at creating supernatural powers. It could match Naruto. What do you think? Plus, I've already used time in FT. Thinking some stuffs that could happen here and there. I won't just drop it. I even collected pics of it.

Rarhyx
July 31, 2011, 06:35 PM
What is your reason to continue reading FT?
Despite my complaints, I still like it coz of the art.
this. only the art is holding me to read FT.

after reading this current arc i can't imagine how mashima was able something to do like Rave, it's like Rave and Fairy tail have two different mangaka

ErosVp
July 31, 2011, 08:04 PM
Not just the art, Ft is a pretty nice and satisfying manga... It is frustating that it could be much better, the beggining of this arc it was going so epic that i was rating it my second favorite manga. But now it is another fun manga to read, compared to Bleach (another manga i read) FT still wins by a large margin...

MechR
August 01, 2011, 12:24 AM
The point is your on the edge of whats the original ment target group. That means its not really written for you and those above your age. You always have to keep that in mind when reading shonen. As far as anything being wrong with FT? You serious? This story is a hit in Japan and abroad. It has its own anime which got extended already. Apart from that volume sales are doing great as well as merchandise. So far you nor anyone here saying Mashima is lame or doesnt do this or that right is throwing a fit over nothing. Just because your wishes arn't met?I hate to be "that guy", but frankly One Piece sells alot more while targeted at the same demographic, because it has better writing. (It sure ain't for the art.) It's a huge mistake to assume young readers are all morons who'll let anything slide.

Rarhyx
August 01, 2011, 09:00 AM
Ft is a pretty nice and satisfying manga...

not more, atleast for me not.

I mean natsu got more then 2 times pwnd in this arc and he should really defeat hades now?
an no go.
laxus coming out of nowhere, (well I don't mind but should be better if he wouldn't show up in this arc, maybe in the next arc as "revenge" for the old man)
zeref getting beaten by ultear, then WTFINSTANTPWNOUTOFNOWHERE zancrow
cana being gildarts daughter
grey beating ultear
ultear being a wannabe medusa(hi @ soul eater)


people were complaing about last arc being shitty... the last arc was epic compared to this one

everything IMO

MechR
August 01, 2011, 08:36 PM
people were complaing about last arc being shitty... the last arc was epic compared to this oneThe last arc was a total mess through-and-through. This arc at least started awesome, which is why it's more disappointing.

exacta
August 04, 2011, 10:01 PM
I actually liked the last arc alot, though the Oracion Seis arc was absolutely god awful, and the Star Festival Arc was awesome until Mashima decided to kill it with Mystogan being another Sieghart clone and from there it went straight to hell.

I'm surprised people like Rave better than FT. I hated Rave. I read it a few years ago because way back when I was a kid I watched the anime on TV and it got canceled, so I wanted to read the rest of it because I was looking for something to read, and it had pretty much all of the problems Fairy Tail has, although I thought it was to a greater extent. Alot of the main characters almost never won without some kind of nakama powerup, and there was way too much crying, and Mashima treated his antagonists like crap in Rave also. Sieghart was a total badass though.

But thats why I dislike Gerard/Mystogan/Siegrein so much, their design is completely based off Sieghart, infact Siegrein even wore basically the same outfit and had almost the same name. And they will never be as interesting as Sieghart because this is a different manga, not to mention its just weird watching a character that looks exactly like Sieghart walk around acting like a villain. I actually feel that Mashima has improved since he finished Rave lol.

ErosVp
August 04, 2011, 11:17 PM
Rave was really lame! Ft is definitely much better, Mashima improved a lot. Rave seemed like was just writing without having planned anything. I remenber when the Gales died, it seemed over. The author was just inventing plots as the histoy was going on... FT have independents arcs but we can see a major picture of the history...

MechR
August 06, 2011, 01:13 AM
I actually liked the last arc alot, though the Oracion Seis arc was absolutely god awful, and the Star Festival Arc was awesome until Mashima decided to kill it with Mystogan being another Sieghart clone and from there it went straight to hell.Huh. I thought the Nirvana arc was mostly good with some bad parts, whereas Edoras was mostly bad with some good parts. Edoras managed to make Nirvana look well-planned, even with the disappearing-legs thing.

I didn't much like Fantasia while reading it (probably because it was the first arc I had to follow week-to-week instead of marathoning), but in retrospect it wasn't bad... until the very end, with that departure scene.

I actually did not mind Mistgun's face at all. Thought it was a good surprise at the time. But bringing back the real Gerard TOO was a bit much. And then Edoras wrote Mistgun out of the story after hardly using him. That was a waste.

evolwizard4
August 06, 2011, 05:07 PM
I hate the latest arc too. Natsu getting to many power ups in a short time. Though I like the humor during the fights. The story got worse when Natsu tried to create fire lighting. Unless it was a ST.Elmo's Fire.

Quantized
August 11, 2011, 06:06 PM
To all the complainers out there ( I'm one of you as well).
What is your reason to continue reading FT?
Despite my complaints, I still like it coz of the art. Of all the manga I've seen, Mashima's art is my favorite. It's cool. And I like some of the characters he creates, the others are just ok. At first, I did like Natsu but he's getting really corny. Another reason is, I like the magic powers. Mashima is really good at creating supernatural powers. It could match Naruto. What do you think? Plus, I've already used time in FT. Thinking some stuffs that could happen here and there. I won't just drop it. I even collected pics of it.

While I absolute HATE how easy going the series is, how the good guys always win, how Natsu always does the same over and over... The world, the character personalities and what not, still interest's me.. So it would be a shame to stop reading, even if I got big dislikes, and who knows, maybe the manga will change.. it sometimes happends :)

---------- Post added at 01:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 AM ----------


Huh. I thought the Nirvana arc was mostly good with some bad parts, whereas Edoras was mostly bad with some good parts. Edoras managed to make Nirvana look well-planned, even with the disappearing-legs thing.

I didn't much like Fantasia while reading it (probably because it was the first arc I had to follow week-to-week instead of marathoning), but in retrospect it wasn't bad... until the very end, with that departure scene.

I actually did not mind Mistgun's face at all. Thought it was a good surprise at the time. But bringing back the real Gerard TOO was a bit much. And then Edoras wrote Mistgun out of the story after hardly using him. That was a waste.

Agreed, it's as if the mangaka got a "fetish" for this Gerard character... Why the overuse..?
Certainly if Mistgun had not looked like Gerard, Gerard's true return would not have been so harmful and annoying..

I don't know, I had hoped for more.. Fairy Tale seems as limited as a Fairy Tail is.. :/

lgstarn
August 11, 2011, 10:20 PM
I don't want to flame here, but let's be honest, FT is just a semi-ecchi big-breast delivery system with a little bit of story and magic around it. There is little to no character development beyond a new power-up. Nothing is learned, nothing really changes. There is no suspense to the stilted, formulaic fights. The plot is just one deus ex machina after another about places and characters it is becoming increasingly difficult to care about. In short, FT as of late has very little redeeming value (beyond the fact that is a still a semi-ecchi big-breast delivery system with a little bit of story and magic around it).

exacta
August 15, 2011, 03:09 PM
While I absolute HATE how easy going the series is, how the good guys always win, how Natsu always does the same over and over... The world, the character personalities and what not, still interest's me.. So it would be a shame to stop reading, even if I got big dislikes, and who knows, maybe the manga will change.. it sometimes happends :)

---------- Post added at 01:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 AM ----------



Agreed, it's as if the mangaka got a "fetish" for this Gerard character... Why the overuse..?
Certainly if Mistgun had not looked like Gerard, Gerard's true return would not have been so harmful and annoying..

I don't know, I had hoped for more.. Fairy Tale seems as limited as a Fairy Tail is.. :/


It's because Mashima's favorite character from Rave was Sieghart who looks EXACTLY like Siegrein, Gerard and Mistgun. In fact, Siegrein even wears the same clothes. Yup. Mashima loves Sieghart so much he made 3 clones of him in Fairy Tail......hands down his worst idea.

tobeulp
August 15, 2011, 08:17 PM
I think Mashima loves Sieghart very much that he created Fairy Tail manga focusing on Mages ^^..

Atobe the king
August 28, 2011, 12:26 AM
@Exacta, if the negative comments were a recent thing its w/e but at some point it became something that happened every chapter. This has been a long arc, and people have been negative about 3/4ths of it. When something loses my interest i stay away from it and its fandom and periodically check in to see if its going in a direction I'm interested in, i don't set myself up for a torture fest.

The hero being beaten to grow is just as cliche as the unstoppable hero, and in my opinion far more annoying. And they didn't "win" they should have died several times Laxus inadvernantly bought the cats time, and the cats saved the day. Natsu and Co just beat a crippled old man with their full power. Hades was pretty cliche himself...idk what makes him a fabulous villain.

exacta
August 28, 2011, 01:01 AM
@Exacta, if the negative comments were a recent thing its w/e but at some point it became something that happened every chapter. This has been a long arc, and people have been negative about 3/4ths of it. When something loses my interest i stay away from it and its fandom and periodically check in to see if its going in a direction I'm interested in, i don't set myself up for a torture fest.

The hero being beaten to grow is just as cliche as the unstoppable hero, and in my opinion far more annoying. And they didn't "win" they should have died several times Laxus inadvernantly bought the cats time, and the cats saved the day. Natsu and Co just beat a crippled old man with their full power. Hades was pretty cliche himself...idk what makes him a fabulous villain.

It's really hard to drop a manga when you'v been following it for 200 chapters+. This arc only became consistently disappointing when Azuma lost. Before that, there were ups and there were downs.The Zancrow fight sucked, but after that Azuma fought Mirajane and Rustyrose fought Evergreen and Elfman. Those were satisfying, and FT was losing. Mashima killed the whole fight with Capricorn in one chapter. The fight with Kain Hikaru was ehhh.

He had cool magic and he was amusing, but he ended up being fodder. The whole Cana thing was dumb since her character was being extremely selfish, and the Gildartz being her father twist reminded me of a cheesy soap opera. I liked the fight with Meredy and Erza.Then after that, Erza pulled a win out of her ass against Azuma, Rustyrose went down very quickly and we got cheated out of an epic fight between Gildartz and Bluenote. Since then, everything has been consistently disappointing, IMO, and some of the things that people were looking forward to the most ended up being huge, HUGE letdowns.

Hades was the first villain in this series to directly show interest in Zeref. Not to mention Yomazu and Kawazu made Grimoire Heart look badass, and after Hades trashed Makarov, it really looked like FT was going to finally suffer a defeat, which is long overdue. Not to mention he was Fairy Tail's second leader, a really nice plot twist which added alot of mystery to his character. He also seemed very, VERY confident, and seeing as he was fighting against a guild he used to run and made the strongest member look like fodder(which had a big impact seeing as how Makarov trashed Jose and surprised us), it didn't exactly feel misplaced. FT's spoiled, lets be honest. Plus, its much more interesting to watch the good guys stop the bad guys when their plan succeeds then watching them stop the bag guys from completing their plan.

This series needs long-term villains. Mashima is constantly introducing new villains and because of that they don't get much time to be developed or become very interesting. So when Mashima finally does create interesting villains, its that much more frustrating when they end up getting the same treatment.

Either the hero wins, or he loses. Neither can be a "cliche". But Mashima using cheesy speeches to enable Natsu to win everytime gets old very fast, its corny, and it just downright doesn't make sense.It's not whether they win or lose, its how its executed. Natsu is too cocky. He needs to get his ass kicked so he can grow and mature.The fact that alot of the main characters haven't changed in over 200 chapters is kinda disappointing.

BlackHair
August 28, 2011, 01:04 AM
I called him fabulous 'coz he beat Mac with zero problems. No previous villain could have archived that. Furthermore his ties with the darkness and his knowledge, he had way more potential that this chapter.

A mainstream shounen is always about cliches, but even among cliches a change is needed, to avoid a repetitive pattern. The nakama power-up's are killing the fights and the manga for me. My main problem with Hades defeat was last weeks heroes comeback (twisting Gildartz words to fit into the story) and the rushed introduction & destruction of his "heart".

Many complainer have been with FT for a long time and have trouble letting go of it. I still remember reading the first few chapters back then as it was new. I dropped it at first but started later at ch.1xx. So Im not entirely from the beginning with FT, but I have been around the start. Thus I'm rly attached with FT. However this arc was a let-down in many points. And the only reason I read 'till now was to see some hope. But it was shattered. It's just the end of this thread for me.

Atobe the king
August 28, 2011, 01:12 AM
Idk I guess I'm weird, i had no qualms with dropping Naruto and Bleach after being with those series for years mid arc if i had to. And there's no pleasing people, a confident hero is too cocky, a modest one is too whiny. Cheesy speeches? where have i heard that before. If you're going to make complaints like that you can't really single this one out when a good chunk of the genre is guilty of it is pretty :V.

I will however agree with this


This series needs long-term villains. Mashima is constantly introducing new villains and because of that they don't get much time to be developed or become very interesting. So when Mashima finally does create interesting villains, its that much more frustrating when they end up getting the same treatment.

And again, i don't particularly have issues with people expressing dissatisfaction but there's never any real "discussion" as of late, the FT fanbase on here seems to be the most negative if someone who just got into the series came here they would not feel welcomed or that this is the type of fandom they want to join.

Finale
August 29, 2011, 04:10 PM
Despite all the disappointments I look forward to reading Fairy Tail every week. If not for the current arc then to see what happens in the next one. This arc had the makings of being epic not just by FT standards but by most of the mangas I read standards. At this point I'm glad this arc is almost over so we can get to the next one. Every arc of FT has some aspect that I like or look forward to seeing. Even in the awful Edolas and Oracien Seis arcs. This arc had so much potential and personally I felt it failed to deliver, (only the war in Naruto disappointed me more than this) but I'll hope that Mashima does better next arc so I'll continue reading.

On a completely unrealated note I feel alot of you guys on Mistgun. Here we had this cool mysterious character that and just when we start to get to see more of him he's gone. That's why I wish Mest was truly his disciple and had picked up on his magic. So yes Mashima's story develpment may not always go as we like but no one will ever be able to say he doesn't create interesting characters.

hoeru
September 11, 2011, 04:42 PM
to me one of the weak points of fairy tail is that its not rave while you still can feel and see its influence on the story due to cameos and feel its impact on the ft fan base since almost every one who read rave thinks of it being the better story. (i don't since i dropped it after lucias appearance and then jumped to the end. :P)

the other point is... it seems a little unbalanced. theres been a bunch of arcs up til now and some of them dont seem to be leading somewhere. if they are heading towards a larger construct - like edolas being important in order to seal zeref somewhere in the future so he cant use any magic anymore so he can find his peace - then mashima completely leaves his readers in the dark. if i have to compare it to the big ones from jump none of them were farer after almost five years. one piece was in skypiea, naruto was around the time skip, and ichigo was about to become his bankai in bleach ...

well theres at least no issue if its about that fairy tail always wins. theyre said to be the strongest, most reckless and probably most hated guild anyways. i also dont have any problems with those powerups due to magic combination or new techniques - they appear logic to me - or due to friendship which is a shonen standard.

shinsengumi
September 11, 2011, 05:10 PM
almost every arc starts great and promising yet ends up unsatisfying . whenever there is potential for a huge event now i tell myself better not expect much

exacta
September 11, 2011, 11:02 PM
Idk I guess I'm weird, i had no qualms with dropping Naruto and Bleach after being with those series for years mid arc if i had to. And there's no pleasing people, a confident hero is too cocky, a modest one is too whiny. Cheesy speeches? where have i heard that before. If you're going to make complaints like that you can't really single this one out when a good chunk of the genre is guilty of it is pretty :V.

I will however agree with this



And again, i don't particularly have issues with people expressing dissatisfaction but there's never any real "discussion" as of late, the FT fanbase on here seems to be the most negative if someone who just got into the series came here they would not feel welcomed or that this is the type of fandom they want to join.


I post in the Bleach discussions the most so I know exactly how you feel. But this arc was just really disappointing to alot of people......I don't remember the forums being like this that much in the past that often.Only a few times when Mashima did something really stupid. And I knew how negative the Bleach forums were here, and I still joined. Although I've never seen a discussion for a manga/arc THIS negative, but again, alot of reasons to dislike the direction this arc went.


Nah,some of the shounen are pretty good with the speeches. Fairy Tail and Rave have INCREDIBLY cheesy speeches. They do. And theres way too much of them. This manga focuses on friendship waaaaaaaaaaaay too much, it's its biggest flaw, and it overuses it as a plot device too much. Come on, you really don't think this arc was ridiculous with how many nakama powerup's Natsu pulled out of his ass? He even did it twice in one fight....

I really didn't think Rave was that good. There were a few parts to it that were good or had potential but it just wasn't a good shounen to me.....I say Fairy Tail is better, but this arc is the worst thing I've ever read because of how much wasted potential it has.

I think the next arc will have a much more positive impact on these forums. I doubt the next arc would have as much hype as this one did.

hoeru
September 14, 2011, 11:22 AM
simple question: how can a manga about friendship between characters overuse this as element?

exacta
September 14, 2011, 07:10 PM
simple question: how can a manga about friendship between characters overuse this as element?
By using it as a means to end every fight and throw in giant speeches about it every few chapters. This manga isn't SOLELY about friendship, it has a plot. It's about guilds, magic, Natsu, the secrets behind the dragons and 777 and Zeref and now apparently Acnologia. Despite all that, this manga focuses too heavily on friendship.

It's an extremely common theme in shounen anyways, and just because something puts a strong emphasis on a certain theme doesn't mean its okay for it to shove it down everyones throats, or even that putting such a strong emphasis is a good idea. Friendship is easily the dullest most shallow element you'll find in shounen.The fact that Mashima overuses friendship so much seriously hurts FT. He doesn't have the balls to kill Makarov, yet he's put him in a scenario where he's "going to die" three times now, just to create drama. After the first time it was a load of crap when it didn't work. It doesn't even cause the slightest tension, and if Makarov ever does die I don't think it will be sad at this rate, or nearly as sad as it could've been.

The way the protagonists overcome their enemies with friendship in this manga is just downright stupid. Mashima led us to believe that something tragic would happen this arc, that someone would die or that Fairy Tail would lose, by giving extreme hype behind the 7 kin and backing that hype up with Gazille barely being able to defeat 2 members that they themselves admit were just fodder compared to the 7 kin, not to mention a premonition of something bad happening, the Magic Council practically soiling themselves, and the leader of the guild not only being an ex-leader of Fairy Tail and master of Makarov but also completely owning Makarov without even getting touched, then proclaiming that he taught the 7 Kin himself, that all of them had Lost Magic and that Fairy Tail had no chance.

And it's not just simply friendship that is the problem. Sometimes Mashimas writing is just awful. The S-Class Trial arc becomes a great example of this once Zancrow loses. But the way Mashima implements friendship is cheap, corny, and just dumb. Basically what I'm trying to say is, if you want to know how a manga can overuse friendship as an element, read the S-Class trial arc lol. The beginning was amazing, but after Zancrow dies it all goes to hell....

hoeru
September 15, 2011, 09:34 AM
bleach isn't about shinigami and their powers solely either - do you consider kubo is overusing the shinigami theme? naruto isn't about ninja and their jutsus either - do you consider mashima is overusing the ninja theme? one piece isn't about pirates and superhuman powers either - do you consider oda is overusing the pirate theme either? one piece also uses this friendship topic massively, even much more than mashima imho. still its the best rated manga of jump. the whole naruto/sasuke topic is based on friendship - and the reason for most of narutos powerups. the friendship topic even shows up in ao no exorcist. people want to read about friendship that's why fairy tail surpassed bleach with sold volumes in 2010, and why ao no ex is such a great success.

so "friendship" probably just isn't the weak point in stories. some just don't like the topic in shonen even though its actually the major part that causes character development and powerups - even to overcome the current enemy which is standing right in front of the protagonist.

Ero-Sanji
September 15, 2011, 09:50 AM
To me this series has but one flaw and that is Natsu himself.
For a manga that has the name Fairy tail it's far too much Natsu and less Fairy tail. Even Naruto who share the same name as the title of the manga doesn't receive the same treatment as Natsu does in Fairy tail.

Is that a problem though?
Yes, it is when inexplicable and forced situations turns up in almost every arc. E.g. why does the Nakama power up always occur to Natsu and never to anyone else? Why does Natsu always have to face the strongest even if that "strongest" is far stronger than him? I don't really get Mashima's plan...

The phantom guild arc was the best because Natsu fought his opponent who was stronger than him and by the help of his nakama he won. Normally many would complain about Natsu receiving help but the great thing about it was that Lucy helped him by reasonable measures, she started a simple fire instead of the highly tiring problem solver of pumping Natsu with her magic. It was smart, funny and exciting and really brought forth a sense of Fairy tail. Natsu was also exhausted after the fight and unable to fight which in turn meant that someone else fought the guild master, Erza lost to him and thus Makarov was the only one left, great!

The Laxus battle was also good since it showed a simple and quite awesome team-work sequence without some random magic eating or receiving and then we have the shinigami battle that was just like the Gazille battle. With etherion we got introduced to the best way of forcing Natsu to defeat ridiculously stronger opponents. I don't mind random power ups at some occasions during some circumstances just like the first time Natsu ate something outside of regular fire. That time it was interesting and fresh but in this arc it was just too much and actually very silly.

The worst scene ever was the one were they threw Natsu at Hades and he actually manages to land to hits on Hades. Two hits! On a full powered Hades! By a highly injured Natsu, something Makarov didn't manage to do a weaker Hades. Why? How? Why!? And don't get me started on Gazille in this arc...

We get the message that Nakama's is the shit and I agree but please don't contradict yourself in the same arc just to spread the message. The arc began with Natsu getting lectured that backing down is not a bad thing, in the same arc he did the opposite twice and on both occasions he won by random and awfully forced ways. I mean him getting Laxus' power was the most unnecessary power-up ever! It would have been better if they just got trashed around only to have the heart destroyed and the tree restored and then having them do their typical team work attacks. And if you have to include Laxus then let him deal with it and let him shine, don't repeat the same move you've done twice before and leave Laxus on the floor. That's also interesting when Laxus is out of juice he can't even stand up yet the front crew and most definitely Natsu are able to fight? Come on.

I know that comparing to other manga's isn't the right thing to do but One Piece that has the same amount of nakama pressure is handling it in a much better way. I'm too lazy to spoiler alert a comparison but those who have read One piece should know what I'm talking about. It's not always about Luffy, Luffy and Luffy but the whole crew has a place and they certainly know how to lose and back down when facing far to superior forces.

shinsengumi
September 15, 2011, 10:22 AM
bleach isn't about shinigami and their powers solely either - do you consider kubo is overusing the shinigami theme? naruto isn't about ninja and their jutsus either - do you consider mashima is overusing the ninja theme? one piece isn't about pirates and superhuman powers either - do you consider oda is overusing the pirate theme either?

you dont make sense . shinigami/ninja/pirate themes arent comparable to friendship but MAGES in Fairy Tail
and exacta explained it well enough as to why people think its overused .
"By using it as a means to end every fight and throw in giant speeches about it every few chapters"

seriously ,dont you feel like the exact same thing happening over and over again to the point that you can easyly predict when the nakama power up will kick in ?

hoeru
September 15, 2011, 10:26 AM
it would have been kind if you hadn't stopped quoting. friendship and it being the source of power ups are a major part of shonen was also part of my explanation. so no, i dont feel that way.

exacta
September 15, 2011, 10:33 AM
bleach isn't about shinigami and their powers solely either - do you consider kubo is overusing the shinigami theme? naruto isn't about ninja and their jutsus either - do you consider mashima is overusing the ninja theme? one piece isn't about pirates and superhuman powers either - do you consider oda is overusing the pirate theme either? one piece also uses this friendship topic massively, even much more than mashima imho. still its the best rated manga of jump. the whole naruto/sasuke topic is based on friendship - and the reason for most of narutos powerups. the friendship topic even shows up in ao no exorcist. people want to read about friendship that's why fairy tail surpassed bleach with sold volumes in 2010, and why ao no ex is such a great success.

so "friendship" probably just isn't the weak point in stories. some just don't like the topic in shonen even though its actually the major part that causes character development and powerups - even to overcome the current enemy which is standing right in front of the protagonist.

People don't read any of the above because of friendship. It's usually I would think because the plot seems interesting or appealing in some way and the characters are cool. "Ninja", "pirates", and "shinigami" aren't themes. Well, really what we were comparing friendship to was an element. Their not elements of the story so much as types of characters in the stories, which encompasses most of the characters in that mangas world. Oda doesn't use friendship more than Mashima lol. And Oda doesn't have his characters pull wins out of their asses by giving speeches about friendship, Oda usually makes his characters work HARD for the victories they earn, they never come cheap like in Fairy Tail, and a good deal of the time the character isn't neccessarily outmatched.

And Luffy doesn't give speeches about friendship really, its more like he screams at the bad guys for hurting his friends or being an evil asshole, or how he's going to save his nakama, etc. Thats a much better way of using friendship, IMO. And even Luffy at one point screamed for his nakama to retreat. And it ended in tragedy. Sometimes tragedy is good for the plot....a story thats always uplifting starts to feel stale after awhile.

Ifrit
September 15, 2011, 11:50 AM
To me this series has but one flaw and that is Natsu himself.
For a manga that has the name Fairy tail it's far too much Natsu and less Fairy tail. Even Naruto who share the same name as the title of the manga doesn't receive the same treatment as Natsu does in Fairy tail.

Is that a problem though?
Yes, it is when inexplicable and forced situations turns up in almost every arc. E.g. why does the Nakama power up always occur to Natsu and never to anyone else? Why does Natsu always have to face the strongest even if that "strongest" is far stronger than him? I don't really get Mashima's plan...

The phantom guild arc was the best because Natsu fought his opponent who was stronger than him and by the help of his nakama he won. Normally many would complain about Natsu receiving help but the great thing about it was that Lucy helped him by reasonable measures, she started a simple fire instead of the highly tiring problem solver of pumping Natsu with her magic. It was smart, funny and exciting and really brought forth a sense of Fairy tail. Natsu was also exhausted after the fight and unable to fight which in turn meant that someone else fought the guild master, Erza lost to him and thus Makarov was the only one left, great!

The Laxus battle was also good since it showed a simple and quite awesome team-work sequence without some random magic eating or receiving and then we have the shinigami battle that was just like the Gazille battle. With etherion we got introduced to the best way of forcing Natsu to defeat ridiculously stronger opponents. I don't mind random power ups at some occasions during some circumstances just like the first time Natsu ate something outside of regular fire. That time it was interesting and fresh but in this arc it was just too much and actually very silly.

The worst scene ever was the one were they threw Natsu at Hades and he actually manages to land to hits on Hades. Two hits! On a full powered Hades! By a highly injured Natsu, something Makarov didn't manage to do a weaker Hades. Why? How? Why!? And don't get me started on Gazille in this arc...

We get the message that Nakama's is the shit and I agree but please don't contradict yourself in the same arc just to spread the message. The arc began with Natsu getting lectured that backing down is not a bad thing, in the same arc he did the opposite twice and on both occasions he won by random and awfully forced ways. I mean him getting Laxus' power was the most unnecessary power-up ever! It would have been better if they just got trashed around only to have the heart destroyed and the tree restored and then having them do their typical team work attacks. And if you have to include Laxus then let him deal with it and let him shine, don't repeat the same move you've done twice before and leave Laxus on the floor. That's also interesting when Laxus is out of juice he can't even stand up yet the front crew and most definitely Natsu are able to fight? Come on.

I know that comparing to other manga's isn't the right thing to do but One Piece that has the same amount of nakama pressure is handling it in a much better way. I'm too lazy to spoiler alert a comparison but those who have read One piece should know what I'm talking about. It's not always about Luffy, Luffy and Luffy but the whole crew has a place and they certainly know how to lose and back down when facing far to superior forces.

I totally agree with you. I LOVE FAIRY TAIL. now that aside it's only flaw that everything is inside the strongest team circle.. I don't mind nakama power up....but like u said to the same person over and over again....it's sad. Why?

because we can all agree on 1 thing...Fairy Tail has a lot of great characters but they are not to be used.

like u said making the Big Entrance for Laxus and then destroy the character. there was no need for laxus to appear really. for a very good reason his power up to natsu didn't work in the end ??? so what was that about ?

I laughed my ass off when Erza said this :

http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/249/3

I was like are you sure ? ask Natsu :)

Ero-Sanji
September 15, 2011, 12:55 PM
I totally agree with you. I LOVE FAIRY TAIL. now that aside it's only flaw that everything is inside the strongest team circle.. I don't mind nakama power up....but like u said to the same person over and over again....it's sad. Why?

because we can all agree on 1 thing...Fairy Tail has a lot of great characters but they are not to be used.

like u said making the Big Entrance for Laxus and then destroy the character. there was no need for laxus to appear really. for a very good reason his power up to natsu didn't work in the end ??? so what was that about ?

I laughed my ass off when Erza said this :

http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/249/3

I was like are you sure ? ask Natsu :)

Exactly, it's like Mashima is trying so hard too prove that friendship overcomes everything even the illogical and impossible but the only requirement is that you're within the lead crew. I wonder when we'll see a dark guild fighting so hard for their guild, bonds and friendship?

Sometimes Mashima also forgets his own rules like the time Erza got hit and injured by Azuma's tree blast and then later on she was spared by the same attack because it was the spirit of FT... I still like FT a lot and I'm always eager to read more but it should get back to how it was before the entrance of Gérard.

Finale
September 16, 2011, 01:45 PM
Exactly, it's like Mashima is trying so hard too prove that friendship overcomes everything even the illogical and impossible but the only requirement is that you're within the lead crew. I wonder when we'll see a dark guild fighting so hard for their guild, bonds and friendship?

Sometimes Mashima also forgets his own rules like the time Erza got hit and injured by Azuma's tree blast and then later on she was spared by the same attack because it was the spirit of FT... I still like FT a lot and I'm always eager to read more but it should get back to how it was before the entrance of Gérard.

You hit the nail on the head. Essentially it seems there is no need for Natsu to continue to train himself because as he is now he can defeat anyone including the series big bad simply by the much vaunted nakama powerup or random deus ex machina. Yes One Piece does have alot to do with friendship but as we have seen in that manga there are simply people that Luffy can't beat no matter how mad he gets. In FT there is no sense of them "losing".

Ifrit
September 16, 2011, 03:16 PM
You hit the nail on the head. Essentially it seems there is no need for Natsu to continue to train himself because as he is now he can defeat anyone including the series big bad simply by the much vaunted nakama powerup or random deus ex machina. Yes One Piece does have alot to do with friendship but as we have seen in that manga there are simply people that Luffy can't beat no matter how mad he gets. In FT there is no sense of them "losing".

mmmm...actually....

Natsu Vs Gildartz = Natsu Lost

Natsu Vs Gajeel = almost got his ass kicked

Natsu Vs Bluenote = couldn't do anything.

Natsu Vs Aira (Element 4 from phantom arc can't remember his name)= Erza saved Natsu

Natsu Vs Laxus = Lost till Gajeel saved him.

Finale
September 16, 2011, 04:37 PM
mmmm...actually....

Natsu Vs Gildartz = Natsu Lost

Natsu Vs Gajeel = almost got his ass kicked

Natsu Vs Bluenote = couldn't do anything.

Natsu Vs Aira (Element 4 from phantom arc can't remember his name)= Erza saved Natsu



Natsu Vs Laxus = Lost till Gajeel saved him.

You must have missed the deus ex machina part of that quote which covers all the times Natsu has been saved. Also Gildartz wasn't trying to kill Natsu and I'm sure you saw all the posts during the arc about how Gildart's epic speech about knowing your limits kinda got thrown out by Natsu. If Gildarz was actually opponent that was intent on killing Natsu I wouldn't have been surprised to see Natsu reach into the darkness of his heart and pull out some special attack that would make Gildartz go "This feeling this aura its just like that Black Dragon that handed me my ass." Then Natsu releases said special attack and bam Gildartz is down.

White Silver King
September 18, 2011, 10:37 AM
Natsu Vs Gildartz = Natsu Lost

That wasn't a real fight.


Natsu Vs Gajeel = almost got his ass kicked

Almost being the operative word.


Natsu Vs Bluenote = couldn't do anything.

That wasn't his fight. Bluenote's purpose was to be the vehicle with which Gildarts could show off.


Natsu Vs Aira (Element 4 from phantom arc can't remember his name)= Erza saved Natsu

Ala Deus ex Machina.


Natsu Vs Laxus = Lost till Gajeel saved him.

Gajeel took a hit for Natsu who then went and won the battle.

shinsengumi
October 01, 2011, 08:10 PM
makarov became FTs Kenny
-oh god they killed makarov..
and hes back at full health next chap

joshua019
October 02, 2011, 07:36 AM
Arc by Arc basis, there is no long running background plot (i.e. One piece's journey to the grandline and finding the one piece) . What I mean here is that there is no plot which the main character is trying to complete during the sub plots (arc), such as natsu trying to find his missing dragon father which does not made progress through out the story, what would have been better is a clue unravelling each arc, which would eventually solve the mysteries of the missing dragons. there is no major antagonist/puppeteer/Evil-reincarnate/big boss (ex. Madara/Aizen) not much of a flaw and could be used as a advantage, however is not utilised.

Additional "PRINCIPAL" characters every arc(gazeel, wendy, raijinshuu) which is a good thing however for every 30+ chapters can hinder the development of the main character "Natsu, Lucy, Erza, Gray". Not much of a flaw but as a deficiency is the character interactions with each other, relationship development (not in a exactly in a romantic way), which is currently has been very shallow, also there is not much of intertwined history most of the flashback or history is more individualised.

Sudden power ups, enemies which are portrayed/hype as powerful beyond the current skills of the protagonist are beaten by a single character boost by the powers of comradery which happen in various manga(one piece) but profound in FT, as there is no precursor to the power up(lucy and juvia)...

quanticism
January 03, 2012, 03:02 AM
1) Friendship powah. Happens every fight. Overwhelming antagonist is defeated by some last spurt headbutt/punch/kick/roar even when they say they have no magic left. This point has already been explained to death by others.

2) Plot armour. No one dies (99.9% of the time). Yes, this is shounen but it becomes tiring when the author constantly, constantly builds up tension towards a character dying in some sort of massive OP, sure-kill, explosion only to have them get a power boost and defeat the relatively uninjured antagonist in 1 attack the next chapter. Other shounen manga can still get me nervous at a character's impeding death/debilitating injury but for me, FT has lost all it's tension. I *know* that a character isn't just going to survive, they'll come out of it stronger. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger right? pfft.

I suppose even Mashima felt like it was going too far and shoved in the "Tenrou island protects us from death" asspull. Oh, there's also Lisanna rofl.

3) Introducing new characters with no prior foreshadowing. Mystogen and Laxus are our most powerful!!!!! Several chapters later, we get the unanimous agreement that Gildartz is the strongest. Gildartz pretty much came out of nowhere with no prior foreshadowing/hints/mentions. Now of course, Mashima knew we would react like this so he took advantage of that and shoved in "Mest" as a spy. I'm sure we were all thinking wtf but we just accepted it since that's pretty much how he introduced Gildartz.

I suppose the premise Mashiro set up makes it difficult for him to introduce new characters more naturally. That's what the 7 year time skip was for. It gave him some breathing space to swarm us with some new faces in a more natural way. Hmm, well, I still think it's BS how 2 new dragon slayers just appear out of nowhere but who cares, it's Mashiro's style.

4) 99% of every antagonist can be and will be reformed into a good guy. Urtear lololol. Edolas King lol. All the other mid bosses/final bosses lol. When it's overdone to this magnitude, it starts making the fights seem really redundant.

5) Gerard's face. Enough said.

6)Edolas asspull. Mystogen. Lisanna, omg lisanna.

Porlyusica is Grandine foreshadowing. One of the few times Mashiro decides to foreshadow is suddenly made mostly irrelevant. Mashiro probably changed a few details while planning for his jucier arcs and decided that he needed Porlyusica to be separate from Grandine. Using Edolas, there will still be some sort of link between the two so it won't be a facedesk revelation but a facepalm one.

Well, this is what I've come up with after marathoning through the entire series (first anime up to ep111, then reading the manga from that part onwards) for the first time over the last 4 days. I will continue reading it simply because it has that shounen charm. But it certainly does not hold a candle up to the likes of One Piece. I'd like to say it's better than Bleach given how absmal that's been after Soul Society but it might be pretty close. Given how underwhelming the arcs have been so far, I hope that the (final?) arc dealing with the dragons, Zeref, achnologia, etc will be epic making the whole journey worthwhile.

Ifrit
January 03, 2012, 03:09 AM
3) Introducing new characters with no prior foreshadowing. Mystogen and Laxus are our most powerful!!!!! Several chapters later, we get the unanimous agreement that Gildartz is the strongest. Gildartz pretty much came out of nowhere with no prior foreshadowing/hints/mentions. Now of course, Mashima knew we would react like this so he took advantage of that and shoved in "Mest" as a spy. I'm sure we were all thinking wtf but we just accepted it since that's pretty much how he introduced Gildartz.


Here is Gildartz in the early chapters

http://www.mangareader.net/135-7139-17/fairy-tail/chapter-24.html

First person said Gildartz was Gajeel in Phantom Arc I think....

this is just one page...there was a lot of things introduced Gildartz to be stronger than Mystogan n Laxus...but I'm too lazy to post all of them LOL

but in the Anime Gildartz wasn't introduced in the same way as the Manga did...so I guess you started with the anime before the Manga just like I did xD

quanticism
January 03, 2012, 04:34 AM
Here is Gildartz in the early chapters

http://www.mangareader.net/135-7139-17/fairy-tail/chapter-24.html




Ah nice spot. I remember that diagram in the anime and I *think* that geezer was in it. Probably. (Edit: http://imageshack.us/f/406/capturedrt.png/: Or maybe not, I thought it was strange that I forgot something like that considering how I marathoned it all over the last 4 days) I'll have to retract my comments about Gildartz. His sudden appearance feels much better to me now :) If anyone remembers the other places where Gildartz was hinted at, I'd love to hear it.

I'll have to clear that point out then. Gildartz's intro was my primary gripe and I can't really remember another that ticked me off too much. I can't really tell how Mashimo would have continued to introduce new characters prior to the timeskip since it felt like he had exhausted through the other guilds with the Nirvana arc and the council's mention that Fairy Tail was the strongest/influential before the Tenrou arc (or at least I think they said it... :P) Also, 2 of the Dark Guilds in the Balam alliance have been exposed and the council members were shown to comprise of irritable old men.

But with such a massive time skip, I suppose it makes it easier for him to give us a whole new plethora of characters. In fact, I think there was an author note on one of the recent chapters that told us that his next arc would introduce a massive swarm of characters.

MONKEYS
January 03, 2012, 10:37 PM
But with such a massive time skip, I suppose it makes it easier for him to give us a whole new plethora of characters. In fact, I think there was an author note on one of the recent chapters that told us that his next arc would introduce a massive swarm of characters.

Sorry to nitpick here, but he's not actually introducing new characters as much as he's bringing back all of the characters that have been introduced so far in the series (well, the good guys at least). You were probably saying that anyway, I'm just a bit crazy in terms of getting a point across, try not to hold it against me...

EDIT: SPOILERS for anime viewers (kind of)
Anyway, one of the main faults I see being listed here is the friendship power up that allows everyone to win battles. To be honest, I quite like that, it kinda serves as a separation of the good from the bad. I mean, come on, Hades could have torn any one of those who came to face him apart, had they gone alone, but they valued their friendships, and that's why they succeeded.

Also, I think it's starting to tie in with something of a main theme of the series. A few chapters ago, when Lucy was discussing the origin of magic with Capricorn (who was sporting a bitchin' waistcoat), she mentioned that it may be love, which may have been warped into darkness, which is why Hades thought it was darkness.

Anyway, the thing I don't like about FT (and the other manga series I read) is how Natsu (the main protagonist) seems to always fight the big bad guy/ always delivers the finishing blow. I'm not saying it's gotten stale yet, considering it was much different in the earlier days of the series (Gray vs Lyon, Makarov vs Jose) and the series hasn't gone on for too long now, but seriously, it needs some variety. Maybe try having Lucy get into more battling (something I think may happen soon).

Secondly, in a series that introduces so many supporting characters, and even provides short bios for them, why do you give them so little airtime (in terms of fighting). Still, this seems to be addressed to some degree, Max was shown to have improved to a great degree in the past seven years, but let's see some Warren, Jet, Droy, Macao, Alzack, Bisca.... and the others (it's Mashima's fault I can't remember).

Anyways, that's my two cents (or two points XD). I'm just glad you didn't get us to list the good points of the series, I'd be here all day!

Ifrit
January 03, 2012, 11:06 PM
Secondly, in a series that introduces so many supporting characters, and even provides short bios for them, why do you give them so little airtime (in terms of fighting). Still, this seems to be addressed to some degree, Max was shown to have improved to a great degree in the past seven years, but let's see some Warren, Jet, Droy, Macao, Alzack, Bisca.... and the others (it's Mashima's fault I can't remember).
!

For me this was always Hiro Mashima missing piece in this series, but I'm looking forward to whats happening now in manga....

it seems he's finally going to use a shit load of mages at once....which what I wanted for so looong....not just mages of Fairy Tail...but ppl like "Jura" for example with his kick ass style....and I never get bored from Freed & Luxus....

I wonder if we ever gonna see Luxus + Freed against 1 bad guy....I feel sorry for him already LOL.....

Krono
January 04, 2012, 12:28 AM
2) Plot armour. No one dies (99.9% of the time). Yes, this is shounen but it becomes tiring when the author constantly, constantly builds up tension towards a character dying in some sort of massive OP, sure-kill, explosion only to have them get a power boost and defeat the relatively uninjured antagonist in 1 attack the next chapter. Other shounen manga can still get me nervous at a character's impeding death/debilitating injury but for me, FT has lost all it's tension. I *know* that a character isn't just going to survive, they'll come out of it stronger. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger right? pfft.

I'm not sure why people keep complaining about this. As you say it's a pretty common problem for popular shounen series. Even so, while Fairy Tail's killed off only a few characters, and only one minor one was on the good guy's side, it certainly happened sooner than it has in a number of other series, including some very popular ones like One Piece and Bleach.


4) 99% of every antagonist can be and will be reformed into a good guy. Urtear lololol. Edolas King lol. All the other mid bosses/final bosses lol. When it's overdone to this magnitude, it starts making the fights seem really redundant.


A common exaggeration. Sure plenty of antagonists are eventually reformed, but hardly all of them. Hades wasn't reformed before he died. Neither were Zancrow, Azuma, or Zoldeo. Being punched into the sky likely hasn't reformed Blue Note either. Hoteye is the only one of the Oracion Seis, or their named henchmen we know to have been reformed. Trinity Raven was last seen lying on the floor of the Tower of Paradise, and even if they survived, they're unlikely to have reformed. We still don't know of what became of Jose other than rumors that he hadn't recovered yet, or Aria (last seen trying to take down Makarov from behind after Jose was defeated) and Sol. And Erigor is still a murderer on the loose as far as we know.

That's off the top of my head. That's a lot of people to supposedly be only 1% of the villains.


Well, this is what I've come up with after marathoning through the entire series (first anime up to ep111, then reading the manga from that part onwards) for the first time over the last 4 days.

You probably ought to read through the rest of the manga as well, if you haven't already. In general the anime does a very good job of adapting the manga, fleshing things out, even fixing some of Mashima's issues. But it does have a couple issues of it's own, for instance:


Ah nice spot. I remember that diagram in the anime and I *think* that geezer was in it. Probably. (Edit: http://imageshack.us/f/406/capturedrt.png/: Or maybe not, I thought it was strange that I forgot something like that considering how I marathoned it all over the last 4 days) I'll have to retract my comments about Gildartz. His sudden appearance feels much better to me now :) If anyone remembers the other places where Gildartz was hinted at, I'd love to hear it.

http://www.mangareader.net/135-7137-11/fairy-tail/chapter-22.html

http://www.mangareader.net/135-7139-15/fairy-tail/chapter-24.html
http://www.mangareader.net/135-7139-16/fairy-tail/chapter-24.html
http://www.mangareader.net/135-7139-17/fairy-tail/chapter-24.html

http://www.mangareader.net/135-7163-13/fairy-tail/chapter-48.html

http://www.mangareader.net/135-7184-19/fairy-tail/chapter-69.html (sadly the translator for this particular scan accidentally put Laxus twice, when it's supposed to be "Gildarts is not possible..." They put out a version 2 that presumably fixed it, but that's seemingly vanished from the net.)

http://www.mangareader.net/135-7221-7/fairy-tail/chapter-106.html (Oyaji being translated as "Geezer", or "Old man" in other places.)

and of course

http://www.mangareader.net/135-7234-15/fairy-tail/chapter-119.html

That's all the foreshadowing for Gildarts' existence before he showed up. The anime cut that because they didn't intend to go beyond episode 48 originally, and they wanted as few loose ends as possible. They also moved some other stuff around. Though they do manage to put in some additional foreshadowing for Cana being Gildart's daughter when they do get around to preparing people for his arrival a couple episodes ahead of time.

The other issue being censorship. Most of it is fairly irrelevant stuff such as removing blood, reducing some instances of fan service, replacing knives with magical attacks, etc. They do do a few things here and there however, and you really don't want to be the guy ranting about how "Erza should never have defeated Ikaruga because Ikaruga had already demonstrated the ability to slice nerves without slicing clothes or flesh, and there was no way Erza should have been able to break Ikaruga's sword." only to be informed that was anime censorship covering up this (http://www.mangareader.net/135-7205-15/fairy-tail/chapter-90.html) and this (http://www.mangareader.net/135-7207-4/fairy-tail/chapter-92.html).


Anyway, the thing I don't like about FT (and the other manga series I read) is how Natsu (the main protagonist) seems to always fight the big bad guy/ always delivers the finishing blow. I'm not saying it's gotten stale yet, considering it was much different in the earlier days of the series (Gray vs Lyon, Makarov vs Jose) and the series hasn't gone on for too long now, but seriously, it needs some variety. Maybe try having Lucy get into more battling (something I think may happen soon).

That's pretty much a standard function of them being the hero of the story. They're supposed to be the one that defeats the villain, saves the day, etc. It's a pretty in escapable function of the genre. Fairy Tail's managed to avert it a few times, but I wouldn't expect the aversion to become the norm.


Secondly, in a series that introduces so many supporting characters, and even provides short bios for them, why do you give them so little airtime (in terms of fighting). Still, this seems to be addressed to some degree, Max was shown to have improved to a great degree in the past seven years, but let's see some Warren, Jet, Droy, Macao, Alzack, Bisca.... and the others (it's Mashima's fault I can't remember).


It's because they're just supporting characters that they don't get much screen time. Having a number of them helps reduce the feeling that Fairy Tail is only Natsu and company - despite us focusing on Natsu's group in a guild of 100 - in a way that a bunch of random, nameless background characters could not. Giving them short bios makes it easier to keep them straight, consistent in character, allows for some more subtle jokes, and further fleshing out at need. Trying to give them all anything resembling equal panel time to the main characters however, especially in terms of fights, would just massively bog down the story.

scareChinaman
January 05, 2012, 12:16 PM
I think the main issue that's holding the series back is its overarching plot.
-Is Lucy narrating her adventures with Fairy Tail
-Is it Natsu's search for Igneel
-Is it stopping Zeref

One of these things needs to become the overall focus of the series. Right now the series is sort of dividing it between all 3 or one at any given time.

ZERO PHOENIX
January 10, 2012, 01:12 PM
Arc by Arc basis, there is no long running background plot (i.e. One piece's journey to the grandline and finding the one piece) . What I mean here is that there is no plot which the main character is trying to complete during the sub plots (arc), such as natsu trying to find his missing dragon father which does not made progress through out the story, what would have been better is a clue unravelling each arc, which would eventually solve the mysteries of the missing dragons. there is no major antagonist/puppeteer/Evil-reincarnate/big boss (ex. Madara/Aizen) not much of a flaw and could be used as a advantage, however is not utilised.

You're right. The arcs also feel disjointed in that regard because by not being collected to a larger plot device, they don't feel interconnected with one another either.




Additional "PRINCIPAL" characters every arc(gazeel, wendy, raijinshuu) which is a good thing however for every 30+ chapters can hinder the development of the main character "Natsu, Lucy, Erza, Gray". Not much of a flaw but as a deficiency is the character interactions with each other, relationship development (not in a exactly in a romantic way), which is currently has been very shallow, also there is not much of intertwined history most of the flashback or history is more individualised.

I don't think the lack of "Gray" airtime is all that important. From the outset Gray seemed to me like a temporary sidekick for Natsu until the story branched out. I consider Gray to be Ishida to Natsu's Ichigo. My issue with regards to the additional characters is that Fairy Tail suffers from Final Fantasy Tactics syndrome. A new character is introduced, there is a big chunk of story devoted to them and once they sign up with FT boom, they're invisible. When Gazille was revealed to be a dragon slayer I said yeah, he and Natsu are going to throwdown and eventually he's going to join FT and we're going to get to the bottom of what happened to the dragons. Excuse me if I'm wrong but despite the addition of both Gazille and Wendy we're still as ignorant about the dragons as we were from day one. I agree that their needs to be more character interaction between Gray, Erza, Lucy, and Natsu but I think we're missing something crucial. Mashima is trying to show that his characters have lives outside of interacting with each other. We have Erza's melodramatic relationship with Gerard, we have Gray's rivalry with Leon, Lucy and Natsu are also doing their own thing with regards to this and that.



Sudden power ups, enemies which are portrayed/hype as powerful beyond the current skills of the protagonist are beaten by a single character boost by the powers of comradery which happen in various manga(one piece) but profound in FT, as there is no precursor to the power up(lucy and juvia)...

I don't think Lucy and Juvia received any sort of off the wall power-up. Recall that there was something about Juva's magic that enhanced Lucy's or something to that effect. It wasn't that they were getting this power-up that came out of nowhere, but they learned how to use their magic in conjunction with each other. Your other points are all solid with the exception of that shot at One Piece. I've never seen Monkey D. own someone based on friendship alone. He's had to work hard for his victories. Granted Monkey D. is driven by friendship but that's never been the deciding factor in his battles. If it was I think he would have rescued Ace don't you?



1) Friendship powah. Happens every fight. Overwhelming antagonist is defeated by some last spurt headbutt/punch/kick/roar even when they say they have no magic left. This point has already been explained to death by others.

IKR




2) Plot armour. No one dies (99.9% of the time). Yes, this is shounen but it becomes tiring when the author constantly, constantly builds up tension towards a character dying in some sort of massive OP, sure-kill, explosion only to have them get a power boost and defeat the relatively uninjured antagonist in 1 attack the next chapter. Other shounen manga can still get me nervous at a character's impeding death/debilitating injury but for me, FT has lost all it's tension. I *know* that a character isn't just going to survive, they'll come out of it stronger. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger right? pfft.

True that. Sure it's shonen but there should still be character death. Even if it's not a main character, logically at least two people should get deep-sixed in each arc. Anyone remember the body count in RAVE? It was REAL out there. :D




I suppose even Mashima felt like it was going too far and shoved in the "Tenrou island protects us from death" asspull. Oh, there's also Lisanna rofl.


Lisanna was hot so I'll allow it. :super But the whole Tenrou island thing was ridiculous. He could have taken this manga into some very mature, very dark yet artistic territory and he blew it.



I suppose the premise Mashiro set up makes it difficult for him to introduce new characters more naturally. That's what the 7 year time skip was for. It gave him some breathing space to swarm us with some new faces in a more natural way. Hmm, well, I still think it's BS how 2 new dragon slayers just appear out of nowhere but who cares, it's Mashiro's style.

You didn't think that there were only three dragon slayers in the entire world did you?



4) 99% of every antagonist can be and will be reformed into a good guy. Urtear lololol. Edolas King lol. All the other mid bosses/final bosses lol. When it's overdone to this magnitude, it starts making the fights seem really redundant.

IKR!!! Urtear becoming reformed was such BS. I totally agree with you on that. :-_-



5) Gerard's face. Enough said.

PREACH!!



6)Edolas asspull. Mystogen. Lisanna, omg lisanna.

I'll say it again: Lisanna is hot so I will allow it. :super




I'm not sure why people keep complaining about this. As you say it's a pretty common problem for popular shounen series. Even so, while Fairy Tail's killed off only a few characters, and only one minor one was on the good guy's side, it certainly happened sooner than it has in a number of other series, including some very popular ones like One Piece and Bleach.

I don't recall anyone from Ichigo's crew ever getting deep-sixed. :-_-




A common exaggeration. Sure plenty of antagonists are eventually reformed, but hardly all of them. Hades wasn't reformed before he died. Neither were Zancrow, Azuma, or Zoldeo. Being punched into the sky likely hasn't reformed Blue Note either. Hoteye is the only one of the Oracion Seis, or their named henchmen we know to have been reformed. Trinity Raven was last seen lying on the floor of the Tower of Paradise, and even if they survived, they're unlikely to have reformed. We still don't know of what became of Jose other than rumors that he hadn't recovered yet, or Aria (last seen trying to take down Makarov from behind after Jose was defeated) and Sol. And Erigor is still a murderer on the loose as far as we know.

I think the point quanticism was making is that there is nearly one villain from each arc that is suddenly reformed by the end of that arc. And if you go back, yes, yes this is true. Even if a "villain" in question doesn't go full-blown good guy there is always some sort of "reflection" on their past deeds which alludes to a future reformation.



It's because they're just supporting characters that they don't get much screen time. Having a number of them helps reduce the feeling that Fairy Tail is only Natsu and company - despite us focusing on Natsu's group in a guild of 100 - in a way that a bunch of random, nameless background characters could not. Giving them short bios makes it easier to keep them straight, consistent in character, allows for some more subtle jokes, and further fleshing out at need. Trying to give them all anything resembling equal panel time to the main characters however, especially in terms of fights, would just massively bog down the story.

Nice insight. :super

exacta
January 13, 2012, 01:09 PM
I'm not sure why people keep complaining about this. As you say it's a pretty common problem for popular shounen series. Even so, while Fairy Tail's killed off only a few characters, and only one minor one was on the good guy's side, it certainly happened sooner than it has in a number of other series, including some very popular ones like One Piece and Bleach.

It's because they're just supporting characters that they don't get much screen time. Having a number of them helps reduce the feeling that Fairy Tail is only Natsu and company - despite us focusing on Natsu's group in a guild of 100 - in a way that a bunch of random, nameless background characters could not. Giving them short bios makes it easier to keep them straight, consistent in character, allows for some more subtle jokes, and further fleshing out at need. Trying to give them all anything resembling equal panel time to the main characters however, especially in terms of fights, would just massively bog down the story.

Come on man.....Mashima built up Makarov dying four times, even drew the first page of a chapter him being in heaven waving goodbye to everone, and still not dying....Charle made a prediction of something bad happening in the S-Trial arc, and everyone got away fine.....Acnologia pretty much NUKED Tenrou Island, and the Island and everyone on it is completely fine.....because Mavis converted their friendship into energy. He couldn't even kill the island. Lisanna coming back into the story is also pretty ridiculous. Mashima can't even properly kill a flashback character whose supposed to be dead. This is a problem. The other shounen don't play around with the idea of killing a character like Mashima does, or at least as badly. Mashima takes it to a whole different level sometimes.

Natsu, Erza and Lucy get too much screentime. Their battles are the ones with the most plot armor and extremely annoying friendship speeches. Having Mashima introduce all these characters in Fairy Tail and not even properly use them just makes them a waste of panel space. The story really does bend over for Natsu, Lucy and Erza. Cana being important in the S-Trial arc felt awkward, because Mashima ignored her so much throughout the whole story, and never even let her have a real fight(and still didn't in S-Trial). If Mashima isn't going to use all these other members of Fairy Tail, then he needs to have a new character join the group again and give them more attention. Or at least give Gazille some more love.

Also, although there certainly are villains that stay villains, Mashima reforms them too often. Kageyama, Lyon and co., Gazille and Juvia, Gerard, Luxus and co., Hoteye, Meredy, Capricorn(yes he was possessed but honestly the second half of the fight ruined the whole damn thing that was terrible) and Urtear....Urtear was built up to be this psychotic evil bitch for over 200 chapters, and in one chapter she is completely reformed because she falls into the ocean.

Hiyu144
February 03, 2012, 08:04 AM
I just have read FT recently, i think it has many weak point and you guys have point out most of it.
But you have forgotten one huge flaw that is "hard work"
Natsu's gang wasted their 3 month in Spirit world and when they come back, Urtear give them the "second origin". While the rest of the guild have to work their ass off, the gang just go party and most likely double their magic power effortlessly thanks to Urtear.
In other series, great power can only be achived from hard work, Luffy and friends spend 2yrs training all alone, Luffy has a huge scar, Zoro lost 1 eye; Naruto must train while his whole village is in danger, his beloved sensei die and he must endure it; Ichigo amost lost his life in order to gain shinigami power......
I think Mashima has given Natsu' s gang too much, they can still be badass without any training and i doubt that FT will lose the tournament.
God damnit, enough with all those random power up already Mashima.

Sorry for my bad English.

Zeltrax
March 19, 2012, 04:20 AM
I can never bring myself to really hate fairy tail. Despite its obvious flaws and such, it still makes me come back and read it with expectations. Unlike other series like Naruto or Reborn.
So it must be doing something right.

One of the weakest points of ft and something that I really loathe about the series as a whole is ...Lisanna.

Don't get me wrong, I adore Lisanna as a character and I enjoyed every page/panel she has in the series.
What I was annoyed with was Mashima bringing her back.
Lisanna's death built one of the strong points of natsu's past, him unable to protect someone close to him and this led to him losing her forever, yes, it should had been forever.
I'm pretty sure we all agree that backstory gave natsu's character depth, e
very time we look at natsu we can see a cherry youthful young man with a tinge of sadness because of that childhood past they had with each other,
even to the extend of Lisanna saying that one day maybe she'll become natsu's wife.
They were very close and she was important to natsu, and he lost her and he regretted it.
He should have carry that regret and lived.

It was sad but necessary and gave natsu depth.
If Mashima actually bring Lisanna back , knowing that natsu deeply regretted not being able to protect her back then and made her significant to the plot, I won't have any complaints.

But the way the entire thing was done..it felt like Lisanna is just another guild member now despite sharing that past with natsu and the way natsu treats her is almost exactly like how he treats other guild members.
I'm a LisannaxNatsu shipper so this might sound like a shipper complaining but I think when Mashima actually did Natsu backstory with depth but brought Lisanna back and develop her in such a way..is rather unsatisfying.

REN KOUEN
March 20, 2012, 10:17 AM
mmmm...actually....

Natsu Vs Gildartz = Natsu Lost

Natsu Vs Gajeel = almost got his ass kicked

Natsu Vs Bluenote = couldn't do anything.

Natsu Vs Aira (Element 4 from phantom arc can't remember his name)= Erza saved Natsu

Natsu Vs Laxus = Lost till Gajeel saved him.

not only that but when natsu fought the guy in the ancient city or whatever when they were trying to stop the "nirvana" spell

natsu had to have the help of jellal's magic fire

when he defeated the god-slayer guy on the island he had to eat his fire

when he fought against hades he had to eat laxus's lighting

when he fought jellal he had to eat a lacrima

when he fought against the king in edolas he had wendy and gajeels help

when you think about it when has natsu defeated or fought a major villian without some exterior help

so if i had a major flaw with the fairy tail story, it is that natsu, the major hero

cannot fight or win on his own, and he doesnt just get stronger and fight enemies

in fact until ultear unlocked his magic potential or whatever i cant even notice him getting stronger

Impossibility
March 20, 2012, 09:26 PM
not only that but when natsu fought the guy in the ancient city or whatever when they were trying to stop the "nirvana" spell

natsu had to have the help of jellal's magic fire

when he defeated the god-slayer guy on the island he had to eat his fire

when he fought against hades he had to eat laxus's lighting

when he fought jellal he had to eat a lacrima

when he fought against the king in edolas he had wendy and gajeels help

when you think about it when has natsu defeated or fought a major villian without some exterior help

so if i had a major flaw with the fairy tail story, it is that natsu, the major hero

cannot fight or win on his own, and he doesnt just get stronger and fight enemies

in fact until ultear unlocked his magic potential or whatever i cant even notice him getting stronger

Somehow, rather amazingly, I've never noticed this. The itemised list, however, makes it quite obvious.

Natsu, despite being typical in his attitude as a shounen lead, is a loser. Maybe that's a good thing........Natsu winning on his own could spell the end of the manga. And apparently, despite being a loser, I rather enjoy seeing him week after week. Or maybe I just enjoy seeing everyone else.......Not really sure right now.

hoeru
March 20, 2012, 10:49 PM
when he defeated the god-slayer guy on the island he had to eat his fire
Natsu had the disadvantage, and learned sth. on his own: A way to eat God Fire so he can turn it on Zancrow while combining it with Dragon Fire. That is a clear WIN for Natsu.


when he fought against hades he had to eat laxus's lighting
Natsu was outpowered as his comerades to go into the final battle, and he never fought alone against Hades. But it was Natsu's plan to seek for the power source of the ship to destroy it. So in the end, Natsu had the biggest part in winning over Hades.


when he fought jellal he had to eat a lacrima
Natsu knew that he needed to replenish his magical energy. And there was the lacrima filled with nothing but pure magical energy from etherion. So this doesn't count as "help from others". It was Natsu's idea to eat the lacrima as "fuel" replacement for fire. And then he was so strong that he actually KILLED Gerard.


when he fought against the king in edolas he had wendy and gajeels help

when you think about it when has natsu defeated or fought a major villian without some exterior help
Actually no mage in this manga from the protagonists side ever won a fight alone aside from singular fights. Mashima makes teamwork and friendship the major topic of the Fairy Tail manga, he openly declared that in interviews like that one posted on ANN (My friends have helped me a lot in the past, and that's something I wanted to directly show in this manga.) in 2011:



ANN: Loyalty to family and friends is a frequent theme running throughout Fairy Tail. Is this also something you feel passionate about?

Mashima: Absolutely. My friends have helped me a lot in the past, and that's something I wanted to directly show in this manga. And that was the beginning of Fairy Tail actually. But, because I've so busy lately, my list of friends in my cell phone has been quickly edited down (laughs).


People can still call this overdone and rubbish - I don't care at all. But beware, as I was told recently, I'm a biased fanboy. And I guess, I'm kinda retarded, too.


so if i had a major flaw with the fairy tail story, it is that natsu, the major hero
Well, Natsu isn't the MAIN hero. He is one in a group of heros. Aside from Lucy he's only the first introduced, and has about the same amount of screen time as Lucy, Gray and Elsa.


cannot fight or win on his own, and he doesnt just get stronger and fight enemies
He kept the lightning element and the development of the combined fire and lightning element mode from the Hades fight.


in fact until ultear unlocked his magic potential or whatever i cant even notice him getting stronger
As Ultear explained only gave him more stamina so Natsu is now likely able to use the lightning-fire mode.


I can never bring myself to really hate fairy tail. Despite its obvious flaws and such, it still makes me come back and read it with expectations. Unlike other series like Naruto or Reborn.
So it must be doing something right.

One of the weakest points of ft and something that I really loathe about the series as a whole is ...Lisanna.

Don't get me wrong, I adore Lisanna as a character and I enjoyed every page/panel she has in the series.
What I was annoyed with was Mashima bringing her back.
Lisanna's death built one of the strong points of natsu's past, him unable to protect someone close to him and this led to him losing her forever, yes, it should had been forever.
I'm pretty sure we all agree that backstory gave natsu's character depth, e
very time we look at natsu we can see a cherry youthful young man with a tinge of sadness because of that childhood past they had with each other,
even to the extend of Lisanna saying that one day maybe she'll become natsu's wife.
They were very close and she was important to natsu, and he lost her and he regretted it.
He should have carry that regret and lived.

It was sad but necessary and gave natsu depth.
If Mashima actually bring Lisanna back , knowing that natsu deeply regretted not being able to protect her back then and made her significant to the plot, I won't have any complaints.

But the way the entire thing was done..it felt like Lisanna is just another guild member now despite sharing that past with natsu and the way natsu treats her is almost exactly like how he treats other guild members.
I'm a LisannaxNatsu shipper so this might sound like a shipper complaining but I think when Mashima actually did Natsu backstory with depth but brought Lisanna back and develop her in such a way..is rather unsatisfying.

Really? I actually always thought, that there was something odd with the story about Lisanna's death and that the explanation before the Edolas arc about Natsu's relationship to Lisanna was altogether rather unsatisfying. That part was by no means useful to give Natsu "depth" - to me it would have needed to know something more than the basic facts on Lisanna. But I don't recall to actually like the Edolas arc which was a letdown to me while I do recall that I sort of fell for Lisanna (as one could do for a character) when Lily had caught her. ;)

REN KOUEN
March 21, 2012, 04:51 PM
Natsu had the disadvantage, and learned sth. on his own: A way to eat God Fire so he can turn it on Zancrow while combining it with Dragon Fire. That is a clear WIN for Natsu.


Natsu was outpowered as his comerades to go into the final battle, and he never fought alone against Hades. But it was Natsu's plan to seek for the power source of the ship to destroy it. So in the end, Natsu had the biggest part in winning over Hades.


Natsu knew that he needed to replenish his magical energy. And there was the lacrima filled with nothing but pure magical energy from etherion. So this doesn't count as "help from others". It was Natsu's idea to eat the lacrima as "fuel" replacement for fire. And then he was so strong that he actually KILLED Gerard.


Actually no mage in this manga from the protagonists side ever won a fight alone aside from singular fights. Mashima makes teamwork and friendship the major topic of the Fairy Tail manga, he openly declared that in interviews like that one posted on ANN (My friends have helped me a lot in the past, and that's something I wanted to directly show in this manga.) in 2011:



People can still call this overdone and rubbish - I don't care at all. But beware, as I was told recently, I'm a biased fanboy. And I guess, I'm kinda retarded, too.


Well, Natsu isn't the MAIN hero. He is one in a group of heros. Aside from Lucy he's only the first introduced, and has about the same amount of screen time as Lucy, Gray and Elsa.


He kept the lightning element and the development of the combined fire and lightning element mode from the Hades fight.


As Ultear explained only gave him more stamina so Natsu is now likely able to use the lightning-fire mode.



Really? I actually always thought, that there was something odd with the story about Lisanna's death and that the explanation before the Edolas arc about Natsu's relationship to Lisanna was altogether rather unsatisfying. That part was by no means useful to give Natsu "depth" - to me it would have needed to know something more than the basic facts on Lisanna. But I don't recall to actually like the Edolas arc which was a letdown to me while I do recall that I sort of fell for Lisanna (as one could do for a character) when Lily had caught her. ;)

GREAT POST

i actually agree with you on most of those points, especially about mashima emphasising team work in the battles

i do believe this will be a long manga, and as it goes on natsu will wind up winning some battles on his own. there are a few precedents in other shounen titles where the main hero recieves aid in a major battle

look at gohan vs cell, sure the super kameha meha defeated cell, but had vegeta not distracted cell with the blast at the end cell may have very well taken gohan out
and this is just one example. i actually find it kind of refreshing in a way that natsu isnt overpowerlingly awesome and just blowing away the villians. but you have to admire his strong will and determination. hopefully he will surpass gildarts as the strongest member of fairy tail eventually

---------- Post added at 04:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------


Somehow, rather amazingly, I've never noticed this. The itemised list, however, makes it quite obvious.

Natsu, despite being typical in his attitude as a shounen lead, is a loser. Maybe that's a good thing........Natsu winning on his own could spell the end of the manga. And apparently, despite being a loser, I rather enjoy seeing him week after week. Or maybe I just enjoy seeing everyone else.......Not really sure right now.

well i wasnt trying to say natsu is a loser, in fact i think quite the opposite

in many series it seems the main hero is way too overpowered at way too young of an age

in fairy tail it seems natsu is going to have to FIGHT his way to the top but ultimately i believe he will be the strongest by the time the series is over

okaneman
March 29, 2012, 01:24 PM
cannot fight or win on his own, and he doesnt just get stronger and fight enemies

thats why he need the helps from his friends, and also the fires.. imo he's getting stronger in his own way..
the flaw in FT is that the magic hand sign is same for most of the mages.. (peace sign). Mashima need to distinguish a pattern of various magic hand sign to make FT more enjoyable, like various shape of zanpakuto in Bleach.

REN KOUEN
March 30, 2012, 01:54 PM
thats why he need the helps from his friends, and also the fires.. imo he's getting stronger in his own way..
the flaw in FT is that the magic hand sign is same for most of the mages.. (peace sign). Mashima need to distinguish a pattern of various magic hand sign to make FT more enjoyable, like various shape of zanpakuto in Bleach.

i guess when you compare it to naruto , bleach, or DBZ where the main protagonist becomes exponentially stronger as the story goes one, natsu does not appear to be becoming stronger

if you look at natsu he is kind of like luffy from one piece, now i am not that far into one piece, but through the major fights he has had, he has beaten stronger enemies each time, but luffy seems to be the same power level and or have the same skill set as he did at the beginning, mush like natsu

ameya730
April 05, 2012, 08:43 AM
for me the weakest part of this series is the lack of a pure warrior class. i would love to see a warrior who cannot use magic but still goes head to head with other mages. cause at the start it was mentioned that one of the weak points of mages is the fact that since they train their magic they are weak physically but sadly this aspect has not been utilized at all.

Rarhyx
April 05, 2012, 09:38 AM
like lee/gai from naruto? :P
yeah one of them would be cool to have in ft^^

Heleos
April 05, 2012, 03:54 PM
for me the weakest part of this series is the lack of a pure warrior class. i would love to see a warrior who cannot use magic but still goes head to head with other mages. cause at the start it was mentioned that one of the weak points of mages is the fact that since they train their magic they are weak physically but sadly this aspect has not been utilized at all.

I agree, but the closest thing we have to this, is the warrior-mage hybrid like Erza. I don't think a pure-warrior type character would fit too well into the world of Fairy-Tail considering everything is centered around magic and it's use, and swinging swords tends to bring a lot of bloodshed, and that just doesn't suit FT. A warrior with the ability to nullify magic would be rather interesting and fit in with your suggested scenario though~

mup
April 05, 2012, 09:34 PM
my thought on FT weak point still treating Natsu like a kid he is the one that fight the villain and yet they treat him weak and have they not started to wonder who natsu really is they are clueless why was natsu not able to go pass the barier why does sing and rouge know them all these questions FT members have to have yet what we get oh he is wonderful with words them crying come on not even the first master has said anything about dragon slayers or natsu when Zerf know him i still am reading the manga but iv been seeing this going on

zelllogan
April 06, 2012, 02:12 PM
Weaknesses:
- Friendship to justify "plotkai"
- No real rules about magic. No clear limitations. No real system to explain how it works
- Poor antagonists.
- Timeskip

Strenghts:
- Graphics
- Likable characters

REN KOUEN
April 09, 2012, 12:15 PM
honestly its not dark enough either

we need more deaths of good guys, and more pure hatred of the bad guys, not this little flirtation with hatred of raven tail

LET THE BAD GUYS REALLY BE BAD

and make the good guys HATE them for it

we need a little bit of that

hoeru
April 10, 2012, 01:21 PM
I know a weak point of the manga. Mashima's characters lack TOO MUCH of Zettai Ryouiki. Seriously, Mashima. What's so hard? Hotpants or Miniskirt and thigh high leg wear... Don't just waste it on Wendy for the lolicon fanbois.

I thought I'd add something random stuff, too.

Airgrimes
April 15, 2012, 01:03 PM
for me the weakest part of this series is the lack of a pure warrior class. i would love to see a warrior who cannot use magic but still goes head to head with other mages. cause at the start it was mentioned that one of the weak points of mages is the fact that since they train their magic they are weak physically but sadly this aspect has not been utilized at all.

pfffffttt. Its not like NARUTO where Chakra is in the body so taijutsu remains effective. If wizard or witch cant use magic at all then they are simply using karate or other martial arts. This means they will get their ass kicked in every situation against anybody who can use magic.
Since magic isnt like chakra which makes your punches stronger.


Weaknesses:
- Friendship to justify "plotkai"
- No real rules about magic. No clear limitations. No real system to explain how it works
- Poor antagonists.
- Timeskip

Strenghts:
- Graphics
- Likable characters

Not fair. Weve had great villains. Its just Mashima doesnt prolong and build and add depth to most of them except Makarov's son who currently is plotting something BIG hehehe


honestly its not dark enough either

we need more deaths of good guys, and more pure hatred of the bad guys, not this little flirtation with hatred of raven tail

LET THE BAD GUYS REALLY BE BAD

and make the good guys HATE them for it

we need a little bit of that

True. There has been no mass murderers like the Big 3 has.


I know a weak point of the manga. Mashima's characters lack TOO MUCH of Zettai Ryouiki. Seriously, Mashima. What's so hard? Hotpants or Miniskirt and thigh high leg wear... Don't just waste it on Wendy for the lolicon fanbois.

I thought I'd add something random stuff, too.

This ensures his manga keeps its popularity doing those pages. The Japanese love lolicon.

hoeru
April 16, 2012, 08:03 AM
This ensures his manga keeps its popularity doing those pages. The Japanese love lolicon.

Well, Fairy Tail and other Shounen manga say that Japanese actually love Oppai. :P

Still, I was joking since there's "Zettai Ryouiki" on Lucy, Elsa and Levy also and because actually none of the listed weak points - that you quoted - has actually been either objective or detailed enough to sound reasonable to me. Especially the often repeated part on "friendship" which is like criticizing Bleach for shinigami. Some readers have an intensive urge for bloodshed, some like magic, some like etchi stuff, some are looking for romance and pairings and stuff, and some read for entertainment only. If a story lacks MASSIVELY on one of the parts you miss - one should stop wasting his/her time with reading and trolling forums.

Airgrimes
April 17, 2012, 02:17 PM
Well, Fairy Tail and other Shounen manga say that Japanese actually love Oppai. :P
When you say actually, do you mean they dont like lolicon?
And whats Oppai lol?



Still, I was joking since there's "Zettai Ryouiki" on Lucy, Elsa and Levy also and because actually none of the listed weak points - that you quoted - has actually been either objective or detailed enough to sound reasonable to me. Especially the often repeated part on "friendship" which is like criticizing Bleach for shinigami. Some readers have an intensive urge for bloodshed, some like magic, some like etchi stuff, some are looking for romance and pairings and stuff, and some read for entertainment only. If a story lacks MASSIVELY on one of the parts you miss - one should stop wasting his/her time with reading and trolling forums.

huh? Is this at me? I dont remember typing about what you mentioned.

-Ken-
April 17, 2012, 03:22 PM
When you say actually, do you mean they dont like lolicon?
And whats Oppai lol?.

It's...

Breast

Airgrimes
April 17, 2012, 04:20 PM
It's...

Breast

I see. Well then which males in any nation dont like Oppai lol.

hoeru
April 17, 2012, 05:31 PM
huh? Is this at me?
No, it's about the general negativism towards certain manga serieses by fans of different fandoms. But I understand that the linear structure of this web forum probably enhanced the impression that I might have meant you only but I was writing in general as I tried to explain why I was joking about the "Zettai Ryouiki"... ;)