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View Full Version : Discussion Lost Shinigami Agent Arc - Purpose and Effect



WaveBossa
August 20, 2011, 10:38 AM
So after reading the latest chapter of Bleach, any hope of this arc being redeemed just flew out the window. I'm not saying the fullbringer arc is now over (dear God i hope it was), but it has just past the point where it is now beyond redemption. The reason why the fullbringer arc was so horrible (in my opinion) was not because of bad design or a bad concept no. The reason why was simply because of an abundance of plot induced character stupidity and logical black holes...

Let me list a few that come to mind.


ICHIGO STUFF

-Ichigo never refused to get his powers back, he just accepted losing them. What I mean by this is that Ichigo would have gotten his powers back if there was a way. (srsly not gonna have this arguement again, its fact). That being said, why didn't urahara stab him with the sword 2 years ago?

-If you say something like, "because it took him 2 years to come up with it, or 2 years to get captain's reiatsu" That still doesn't explain why he didn't at least inform ichigo of this. At least that way, Ichigo woudln't have sought out the Fullbringers. And I know Urahara is very secretive but at this point he should really put some trust in Ichigo, the guy did literally save 2 worlds.

-Speaking of trust and calling in Favors, When Ichigo first learned of this enemy that was turning his friends against him, he should have sought the help of the soul society. I know he's no longer a shinigami, but there are ways to contact them, and EVERYONE there owes him a huge favor.

XCUTION STUFF

-Ok.. can anyone tell me what the true goal of the fullbringer group really is? Lets talk about that for a sec

-The goal was obviously never to give Ichigo their powers, they seemed to have no desire to part with their fullbrings.

-In the end we see that the goal was to steal Ichigo's powers (for whatever purpose still unknown).

-So you want me to believe that the primary goal for this Karakura Town based group is to seek after powerful shinigami who have lost their power AND were also born to a human mother who suffered an attack from hollow.... WAIT WHAT?

-The entire purpose of the group's existence is basically to steal the power of... Ichigo. How convinient -.-. I can't think of one other shinigami who fits that description. And we have a pretty good idea of the size of soul society and the number of capable fighters there. And Ichigo is srsly the only one who fits this description.

-Actually my above point stands corrected by the manga. There was a scene of Suspenderboy killing a shinigami after taking his powers. Could there be a higher purpose to this? Maybe, but at this point its hard to care.


SUSPENDERBOY STUFF

-The reasoning for not turning Ishida agaisn't Ichigo was SO BAD! So it can be a challenge? I mean really? Worst writing ever. KT should have made some bs reason like "it doesn't work on quincys" and that would have been 100x better

-So Suspenderboy's (dont knwo his real name) power is to change how ppl feel towards him (villian, friend, unkown, w/e) andthen to revert it on the second cut. So when he cut Ginjo, he had to go and cut his whole group, otherwise they would have still been loyal to susspenderboy. This is the only logical explanation because Ginjo obviously had the group prior to attacking ishida.

-So he cut all of them because they are "bad actors" ?? Such bad reasoning for 2 main reasons.
- Reason 1, They never had to be Ichigo's friends. Ichigo sought them, they were a means to restore his power, not a social club. Remember the Vizards? Were they all friendly to Ichigo at the start? No, they weren't. Groups like this are a means to an end, and Ichigo knows this. No one was looking for bffs here...

-Reason 2, What the hell? Even after that "life changing cut", they were still jerks to Ichigo! Let me make something clear for everyone reading. Ginjo CUT ICHIGOS EYES for crying out loud while pretending to be Ichigo's enemy to piss him off while actually under suspenderboy's influence to be Ichigo's friend while actually truly ichigo's enemy!!!! What is this about Ginjo's bad acting? HE'S A GREAT ACTOR! One of the worst plot devices i have ever seen and easily contradicted by the manga.

-So lets look at suspenderboy and his little minion. Was there any reason whatsoever to send this guy to kill orihime? Nope. Considering what their goals were, that scene was completely pointless. If there was a point to it, it was to show how "scary" suspenderboy is. Honestly when i look at this guy, I really really reallly miss Aizen


SHADEY STUFF

-Once again, it seems that in Bleach, everyone's favorite activity is leaving Ichigo out of the loop. Seriously. Remember when Ginjo first talked to Ichigo? He told him to investigate his father and Urahara etc. Now Ginjo was just talking crap, but he made a good point. Isshin and Urahara were acting extra shadey for no damn reason. They should have been like "ICHIGO we might have found a way to restore your power!" instead of like, "lets not tell ichigo, yeah! that sounds cool!"


CONCLUSION

What this boils down to is that KT wanted to have some big twist, and in order ot do so he had to make everyone an idiot. That is simply it. He wanted to have a major twist, but in order for it work, the whole manga had to be turned on its head. I have had my gripes with Bleach before, but this is puts any other problem i had wiith Bleach to shame.

I took issue (as many of you did) with some aspects of the Godzen arrancar arc, but at least it was coherent and the plot holes were neglible. Remember guys, this is bleach's first attempt at a restart. Even after the soul society arc it wasn't really a restart because Aizen was still out there.

For those of you saying, "Just wait and see, the fullbringer arc may turn out to have some major revelations and-" No, i want to stop you there. The only way this arc can be salvaged is for it to stop doing damage and just go away. Treat this arc as "How Ichigo got his powers back" and move on. I dont care if there is some evil big boss ginjo and suspenders work for who asked them to steal power. I really dont care. This arc is so bad that I want Ichigo to just kill all the fullbringers, tell chad he is not a fullbringer, and pretend like this never happened.

If you think I'm a bleach hater or anything, just read my posts, I defend this manga more than most. I just cant stand to see it slip into mediocrity.

Oh and if you want to refute any of the points I made concerning the ridiculousness of this arc, please feel free to do so. Most of those are really questions and I don't know the answer, so I would be glad to hear your opinion. If someone can offer a legitimate reason, manga supported reason why the fullbringers did what they did, I would really like to hear it bcuz... i'm just confused now, lol.

Revolation
August 21, 2011, 05:28 PM
Ah yes, i've been saying all of this stuff in the discussion thread. especially about how we basically know nothing about xcution because ginjou's words can't be trusted.

Tengou
August 21, 2011, 10:37 PM
You can say all the bad things you want about this arc, and I agree with some of them, but at least it didn't drag on, and on, and on, and on.

And on.

Like the two arcs that came before it. And you know, the reason that it didn't is part of why it turned out like this. Ever since the Aizen stuff was over with and we entered this transitional fullbringer arc, the Bleach ratings have gone down. I'm sure Kubo wanted to work with these fullbringers more, and bring this arc to its logical completion before returning Ichigo's shinigami powers to him. But no, t'was not to be, the real reason why this arc sucks way more than it should have? Us. Or the Japanese version of 'us'. Impatient fanboys and fangirls braying like mules because this arc didn't live up to their immensely high expectations, compared to all the fantastic, massively empowered and near-plotless shinigami fights that came before it of course. All we ever wanted was for Ichigo to get his shinigami powers back, so Kubo caved under pressure from the ratings, probably whilst grunting foul expletives under his breath, and hurried it all along.

In conclusion, we can call out every mistake made in this arc, every little inconsistency, but at the end we're likely to blame for half of them, the impatient tits that we are. Still, did you expect Kubo to suddenly turn into Stephen King now the Hueco Mundo/Fake Karakura Town arcs are over? Perhaps the density of plot holes increased merely because there actually is a plot this time. Well, in terms of plot, anything beats 'Aizen made a bunch of arrancars, wants to invade Soul Society and kill the Spirit King, a billion fights ensue', so now it just looks like Kubo is straining to make up for all that.

WaveBossa
August 22, 2011, 04:04 AM
Ah yes, i've been saying all of this stuff in the discussion thread. especially about how we basically know nothing about xcution because ginjou's words can't be trusted.

This is something that I and some friend's of mine have been talking about for a long time. There is a term for it, something like "Narrative Unreliability" Bleach does this alot really. What I mean by this, is in every story, (book, show, manga, w/e) there are things that are said that are MEANT to be believed by the readers. And there are things that are said that are MEANT to be taken with a grain a salt.

IN a good story, the 2 are very easy to tell apart. In bleach, its hard to tell because it seems that everyone is liable to lie. Let me make an example. Say you were reading Naruto, and someone says, Minato was the 4th hokage. You have absoluetely no reason to not trust them whatsoever. The narrator is giving you factual info via a character. Now, if in naruto madara says he had nothing to do with the fox and the attack on konoha, you distrust him because he has something to gain by lying and motive.

Now juxtapose this with bleach. I really would not surprise me if someone was just like... we have all been lying the whole time, there is no soul king, oops sorry. I mean honestly, Aizen did the whole 0-9 thing... anything is possible. People in bleach lie for no reason, its frustrating because you cant trust anyone (srsly urahara) and the main character knows NOTHING (srsly ichigo).

---------- Post added at 09:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 AM ----------


You can say all the bad things you want about this arc, and I agree with some of them, but at least it didn't drag on, and on, and on, and on.

And on.

Like the two arcs that came before it. And you know, the reason that it didn't is part of why it turned out like this. Ever since the Aizen stuff was over with and we entered this transitional fullbringer arc, the Bleach ratings have gone down. I'm sure Kubo wanted to work with these fullbringers more, and bring this arc to its logical completion before returning Ichigo's shinigami powers to him. But no, t'was not to be, the real reason why this arc sucks way more than it should have? Us. Or the Japanese version of 'us'. Impatient fanboys and fangirls braying like mules because this arc didn't live up to their immensely high expectations, compared to all the fantastic, massively empowered and near-plotless shinigami fights that came before it of course. All we ever wanted was for Ichigo to get his shinigami powers back, so Kubo caved under pressure from the ratings, probably whilst grunting foul expletives under his breath, and hurried it all along.

In conclusion, we can call out every mistake made in this arc, every little inconsistency, but at the end we're likely to blame for half of them, the impatient tits that we are. Still, did you expect Kubo to suddenly turn into Stephen King now the Hueco Mundo/Fake Karakura Town arcs are over? Perhaps the density of plot holes increased merely because there actually is a plot this time. Well, in terms of plot, anything beats 'Aizen made a bunch of arrancars, wants to invade Soul Society and kill the Spirit King, a billion fights ensue', so now it just looks like Kubo is straining to make up for all that.

Lol, i like the way you wrote that, and I agree to a certain extent. In fact, months ago, i posted a long rant stating most of what you have said about just how ridic alot of the things in the arrancar arc really were and how I had massive hope for the fullbringer arc. And yes, that arc was dragged on and on and on. Most (if not nearly all) of the fights didn't really bring anything to the story except for showing a new bankai etc. A fight in a shounen should be more than just a fight, it should have character development or plot progression. If neither is present, it is a waste, pure and simple.

I wasn't aware of bleach's rating drop, but it does explain alot. The fullbringer arc seemed to hit a point where everything was accelerated and possible good plot mechanics and story-boarding might have been shoved out the window in order to bring it all together much faster and much more sloppily. It seems like when Suspenderboy was sitting in Ichigo's house, was when everything went from 30mph to 120mph and they mysterious dynamic was ousted in favor of desperation, bleach's favorite tone.

For once, i would like to ichigo fight a battle vs someone that was more than just a sword battle. I thought we were getting something like that this time around. An adversary who could change the allegiances of those close to you and warp your very reality putting you in a personal hell.

But in the end it turned into nothing more than sword fight. meh.

I can't really say that fans are fully to blame for this. If anyone its the editors. When Bleach started it had 0 ratings and no fans pushing it to be something of their own creation. Now its an internationally recognized and respected manga with a great amount of pressure to do well. That being said, shortening a story or speeding up an arc to satiate short term desires is a fool's bargain because of the adverse affects it will have down the like.

Long story short, make a good story with captivating characters (first 60 chapters of bleach, back when rukia was acutally an interesting character), and you'll get a certain type of fan. Make a nonsensical battle royal (most of the chapters since then) and you will get a different type of fan.

Kubo needs to decide what crowd he's gonna play to. Or rather, his editors need to...

Revolation
August 22, 2011, 04:39 PM
You can say all the bad things you want about this arc, and I agree with some of them, but at least it didn't drag on, and on, and on, and on.

And on.

Like the two arcs that came before it. And you know, the reason that it didn't is part of why it turned out like this. Ever since the Aizen stuff was over with and we entered this transitional fullbringer arc, the Bleach ratings have gone down. I'm sure Kubo wanted to work with these fullbringers more, and bring this arc to its logical completion before returning Ichigo's shinigami powers to him. But no, t'was not to be, the real reason why this arc sucks way more than it should have? Us. Or the Japanese version of 'us'. Impatient fanboys and fangirls braying like mules because this arc didn't live up to their immensely high expectations, compared to all the fantastic, massively empowered and near-plotless shinigami fights that came before it of course. All we ever wanted was for Ichigo to get his shinigami powers back, so Kubo caved under pressure from the ratings, probably whilst grunting foul expletives under his breath, and hurried it all along.

In conclusion, we can call out every mistake made in this arc, every little inconsistency, but at the end we're likely to blame for half of them, the impatient tits that we are. Still, did you expect Kubo to suddenly turn into Stephen King now the Hueco Mundo/Fake Karakura Town arcs are over? Perhaps the density of plot holes increased merely because there actually is a plot this time. Well, in terms of plot, anything beats 'Aizen made a bunch of arrancars, wants to invade Soul Society and kill the Spirit King, a billion fights ensue', so now it just looks like Kubo is straining to make up for all that.

hmm i doubt kubo caved at all. he most likely had it planned out from the start. this arc that is.

everyone in the discussion thread when rukia came back was like "oh he made rukia come back because last chapter had bad ratings".
well, that's not entirely how it works. Fact is, by the time the ratings came out for the chapter, two chapters before the rukia coming back chapter came out, kubo was probably already 2-3 chapters ahead of the current chapter with the shinigami coming back.
kubo always says how he draws ahead. my guess is he's at least a volume and a couple chapters ahead of the current release. even if it's less than that, it still proves my point, and if it's more than that then it further proves it.

scholar
August 22, 2011, 09:26 PM
If I recall correctly, the Arrancar arc was supposed to be much smaller, but its popularity motivated him to make it much longer. Something similar could easily have happened here, only in reverse.

Googlez_kun
August 23, 2011, 12:59 PM
hmm i doubt kubo caved at all. he most likely had it planned out from the start. this arc that is.

everyone in the discussion thread when rukia came back was like "oh he made rukia come back because last chapter had bad ratings".
well, that's not entirely how it works. Fact is, by the time the ratings came out for the chapter, two chapters before the rukia coming back chapter came out, kubo was probably already 2-3 chapters ahead of the current chapter with the shinigami coming back.
kubo always says how he draws ahead. my guess is he's at least a volume and a couple chapters ahead of the current release. even if it's less than that, it still proves my point, and if it's more than that then it further proves it.
The rankings dropped way before was saw the shinigami's feet in the color page and Bleach hit the bottom 5 way before Rukia re-entered the story.Kubo had a lot of time to prepare the forced fanservice.


If I recall correctly, the Arrancar arc was supposed to be much smaller, but its popularity motivated him to make it much longer. Something similar could easily have happened here, only in reverse.
Originally,Kubo wanted to end the manga after the SS arc,but Bleach got so popular that his editors pushed him to continue.That led to the big Aizen plot twist,which was basically pulled out of thin air and later led to those empty and stupid fights and the pacing problems,because Kubo simply didn't know what was going on anymore.
That's why i had even higher expectations for the Fullbring arc.Kubo had time to plan everything thoroughly.However,he should've started a new manga with this concept,as it seems that he wanted to much.He created a new world in the old Bleach world,which led to more plot-holes down the road.

I wonder what Kubo will do in his next arc.The fans will probably forget about this arc and move on.Kubo should do that as well.

WaveBossa
August 25, 2011, 12:08 PM
The new chapter has made things more interesting granted, BUT i know from all these years of reading bleach that the former plot holes are gonna be left alone and forgotten.

/sigh.... I just wish kubo could combine the best of both worlds.

Trotter
August 25, 2011, 08:28 PM
I don't think you understand the concept of a plothole very well. No offense is meant by this. A plothole is when something appears in the plot to explain something, yet contradicts everything else. So far you have not presented anything like that. I am presenting my points against you in a number fashioned and in chrological order. IE, every - statement you made is represented by a number in my post in order of me reading them (so from top to bottom).

1.We don’t know why, but it can easily be explained. Examples of arguments are: They wanted Ichigo to have a normal life. Even Urahara asked Isshin “Are you sure you want to do this? Your son won’t have a future after this.” in refrence to restoring his powers. Also, there probably wasn’t this threat two years ago either.

2. The argument that it took him two years to come up with it is fail, but Idon’t think that’s the reason at all.

3. How can he seek the help of Soul Society, especially when, when this arc began, he made it clear (when Keigo brought up Rukia) that the wanted nothing to do with them anymore. That and Ginjou’s manipulations pretty much turned things around for him.

4. Not sure how this is considered a plot hole but ok.

5. Ok….

6. Ok...x2

7. What did I just read? They didn’t say powerful Shinigami, just someone who is half Shinigami half Hollow. We don’t know why Ichigo could use fullbring, but it’s very likely that his REMAINING REIATSU, which he was said to have, had some of his HOLLOW REIATSU inside of it. In fact, that makes perfect logical sense because he had both Hollow and Shinigami reiatsu left in him. I see no issue here.

8. Because every Shinigami in the Soul Society goes around making love to humans and then those human-shinigami babies go and get Hollow powers. Yes, because this isn’t a Shounen manga where the main character has unlikely things happen to him. I think are you in the wrong genre.

9. Read new chatpers, etc, etc. Only hard to care if you don’t understand the concept of the genre itself.

10. Read new chatpers, etc, etc. Only hard to care if you don’t understand the concept of the genre itself.

11. His name is Tsukishima. Not sure how this is a plothole either, but ok.

12. This point encompasses your reasons (both one and two) for them being cut. They weren’t jerks, Ginjou was being terribly cliché, and Ichigo isn’t the hardest person to confuse. The acting wasn’t bad, because Ginjou was still believable and seemed like he had good intentions from the start. Also, this good acting was only a result of him being cut. Your logic here is horrid to read, isn’t contradicted at all, and shows your lack of understanding for the plot devices at play here.

13. Once again, what did I just read? The whole scene was to introduce Moe and for Orihime to be cut, as well as to established the relationship between Moe and Tsukishima. I think you are, once again, completely missing the point here in some kind of random blind hate for this arc that is completely unfounded. But I digress…

14. Isshin and Urahara both clearly seem to have realized that Ginjou is now involved with Ichigo. If they were to step in, who knew what Ginjou would do? Whisk Ichigo away and brainwash him (spoileralert: HE ALREADY DID THAT!!!)?

...

Overall I am very disappointed in everyone that liked, thanked and agreed with this post because it has numerous pitfalls in logic and is analyzing things in such a shallow manner that I feel like it was more of a chore to read the post then to reply. I mean no disrespect by this but I stand by what I said. Have a good day.

Revolation
August 25, 2011, 09:27 PM
The rankings dropped way before was saw the shinigami's feet in the color page and Bleach hit the bottom 5 way before Rukia re-entered the story.Kubo had a lot of time to prepare the forced fanservice.


Originally,Kubo wanted to end the manga after the SS arc,but Bleach got so popular that his editors pushed him to continue.That led to the big Aizen plot twist,which was basically pulled out of thin air and later led to those empty and stupid fights and the pacing problems,because Kubo simply didn't know what was going on anymore.
That's why i had even higher expectations for the Fullbring arc.Kubo had time to plan everything thoroughly.However,he should've started a new manga with this concept,as it seems that he wanted to much.He created a new world in the old Bleach world,which led to more plot-holes down the road.

I wonder what Kubo will do in his next arc.The fans will probably forget about this arc and move on.Kubo should do that as well.


Yeah, though like I said, I believe Kubo had the arc planned from the start. i doubt he just decided rukia and the shinigami should come back "here" because the ratings are bad "here". Even if he did have time to prepare, this arc was most likely planned with fan service and all involved and planned as well. Along with the whole drawing ahead factor

Sky Render
August 26, 2011, 08:28 AM
About Ichigo:

Yes, Urahara didn't inform Ichigo of all this. We still don't know why. Listen up, dude, the fact that we still haven't been told what's up doesn't mean we won't be told later. You can't expect Urahara to show up and rant about the reasons why he didn't do this or that. Because it's a fucking battle. If after the battle Urahara still doesn't talk, then I'll accept that you're right. But not now. Urahara might have a very good reson to do what he has just done, so don't jump into conclusions. Please.

As for Ichigo not asking for help... of course he didn't. He never, ever does. Because he's a conceited, arrogant immature boy who still thinks he can solve everything himself. That has been stablished over and over and over and OVER. He was about to rush into SS and HM alone, until Chad told him off and actually said "don't carry the burden alone". In this very arc, Unagiya told him off again, saying that "it's OK to rely on people, you know?" while holding him by the collar.

Had Ichigo actually called for help, it would have been out. Of. Character.

About Xcution motives:

This is where your rant becomes... well, a rant. Xcution wants Ichigo because he's special. OF COURSE HE'S SPECIAL, WE KNOW THAT SINCE THE VERY START. Nobody but him has achieved trascendental state. Aizen said that he was special because he's a half breed, something that, as far as we know, nobody in SS is.

Xcution wants him because he's special. What Xcution wants is still a mystery. That's the whole point of, well, any compelling story: to not immediately knowing what's going on. It's as if Sherlock Holmes solved the case in the fist page.

Tsukishima killing a Shinigami was a LIE. If you didn't catch that maybe you shouldn't be talking about plot holes.

As for Tsukishima:

Dude, you're not even being serious anymore. Look, we don't know if Tsukishima cut the rest of the Fullbringers. Hell, he probably didn't. He didn't need to, because it was only Ginjo who was going to get close to Ichigo and it was only Ginjo who was a bad actor. The other Fullbringers just lied, that's all. We can see that in Riruka's pained expression when Orihime tells her that she's "kind".

And the main reason for Ginjo to be brainwhased is that Ichigo can guess people's intentions when he crosses swords with them. If Ginjo had simply tried to lie, Ichigo would have known something was off. And if he hadn't, it would have been a PLOT HOLE.

Oh, and Tsukishima sent Sishigawara to Orihime because he's a dick. I don't really need any more explanation.

About the shadey stuff:

That's just the first point all over again. WE. STILL. DON'T. KNOW. WHY THEY DID THAT. Maybe Isshin just wanted Ichigo to be normal until he had no choice but to yield, who knows.

Look, dude...

You just seem to be the type of guy who doesn't like mystery and wants instatly solved questions. Also, you don't seem to like this new setting and characters. That's cool, tastes are tastes. But please, don't look for incoherence and plot holes where there are none.

As I have pointed out before, Bleach right now has the potential to develop plot holes, but only if Kubo doesn't properly explain things like the ones above or the sudden disappearance of Orihime and Chad.

Right now, there is nothing wrong. Just you and some other people not liking this arc.

I just don't buy that somebody doesn't like a work but still bothers to write long rants about it. I stopped reading Psyren because... because. And that's it. Many people don't like Bleach, and they sure as hell don't post in this forum.

Please have patience.

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------


The new chapter has made things more interesting granted, BUT i know from all these years of reading bleach that the former plot holes are gonna be left alone and forgotten.

/sigh.... I just wish kubo could combine the best of both worlds.

Which former plot holes? Please list them. So far I don't know none.

WaveBossa
August 30, 2011, 07:25 PM
About Ichigo:

Yes, Urahara didn't inform Ichigo of all this. We still don't know why. Listen up, dude, the fact that we still haven't been told what's up doesn't mean we won't be told later. You can't expect Urahara to show up and rant about the reasons why he didn't do this or that. Because it's a fucking battle. If after the battle Urahara still doesn't talk, then I'll accept that you're right. But not now. Urahara might have a very good reson to do what he has just done, so don't jump into conclusions. Please.

As for Ichigo not asking for help... of course he didn't. He never, ever does. Because he's a conceited, arrogant immature boy who still thinks he can solve everything himself. That has been stablished over and over and over and OVER. He was about to rush into SS and HM alone, until Chad told him off and actually said "don't carry the burden alone". In this very arc, Unagiya told him off again, saying that "it's OK to rely on people, you know?" while holding him by the collar.

Had Ichigo actually called for help, it would have been out. Of. Character.

About Xcution motives:

This is where your rant becomes... well, a rant. Xcution wants Ichigo because he's special. OF COURSE HE'S SPECIAL, WE KNOW THAT SINCE THE VERY START. Nobody but him has achieved trascendental state. Aizen said that he was special because he's a half breed, something that, as far as we know, nobody in SS is.

Xcution wants him because he's special. What Xcution wants is still a mystery. That's the whole point of, well, any compelling story: to not immediately knowing what's going on. It's as if Sherlock Holmes solved the case in the fist page.

Tsukishima killing a Shinigami was a LIE. If you didn't catch that maybe you shouldn't be talking about plot holes.

As for Tsukishima:

Dude, you're not even being serious anymore. Look, we don't know if Tsukishima cut the rest of the Fullbringers. Hell, he probably didn't. He didn't need to, because it was only Ginjo who was going to get close to Ichigo and it was only Ginjo who was a bad actor. The other Fullbringers just lied, that's all. We can see that in Riruka's pained expression when Orihime tells her that she's "kind".

And the main reason for Ginjo to be brainwhased is that Ichigo can guess people's intentions when he crosses swords with them. If Ginjo had simply tried to lie, Ichigo would have known something was off. And if he hadn't, it would have been a PLOT HOLE.

Oh, and Tsukishima sent Sishigawara to Orihime because he's a dick. I don't really need any more explanation.

About the shadey stuff:

That's just the first point all over again. WE. STILL. DON'T. KNOW. WHY THEY DID THAT. Maybe Isshin just wanted Ichigo to be normal until he had no choice but to yield, who knows.

Look, dude...

You just seem to be the type of guy who doesn't like mystery and wants instatly solved questions. Also, you don't seem to like this new setting and characters. That's cool, tastes are tastes. But please, don't look for incoherence and plot holes where there are none.

As I have pointed out before, Bleach right now has the potential to develop plot holes, but only if Kubo doesn't properly explain things like the ones above or the sudden disappearance of Orihime and Chad.

Right now, there is nothing wrong. Just you and some other people not liking this arc.

I just don't buy that somebody doesn't like a work but still bothers to write long rants about it. I stopped reading Psyren because... because. And that's it. Many people don't like Bleach, and they sure as hell don't post in this forum.

Please have patience.

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------



Which former plot holes? Please list them. So far I don't know none.


Ok you're first point about Urahara not explaining because they are in a battle. They haven't been in a battle for the past two years have they? The fact is that he went to the General and asked for this sword to be made for Ichigo pretty much tells us that something like this is doable in the bleach Universe. You still haven't explained why it took two years, and neither has Urahara, that's my issue. There is no mystery in that, it just sounds stupid.

I will concede that you are right, ichigo is an idiot, and will want to do everything on his own if possible. That is a valid point.

About Tsuki'sw/e ability, you're saying that he only cut Ginjo and not the rest of hte fullbringers and the rest of them just acted? Well that's even more complicated then what I was originally thinking. So there is Ginjo, the defacto leader, trying to take down (or even kill) tsukiw/e and the rest of the fullbringers have to fight tsukiw/e pretending like he's the badguy when he's really the good guy? And remember the page where all the members of xcution are all cut down by Tsukiw/e? All this to trick ichigo? You call that mystery? I call that bad writing.

Yeah your explanation makes no sense, but its not your fault, it's simply because you are trying to explain something that is illogical.

And as for your reasoning for why Ginjo had to things the way he did. The manga did not say that was the main reason, that's just your opinion. In fact, the manga did not mention that at all. The manga makes it clear that Ginjo did this because he wanted to make it fun and it would been too easy otherwise. Ichigo couldn't read Gin's real intentions so i'm not sure why you are putting so much stock in that ability of his. Its not like its ever been put to any real use in the manga. And You are missing the point I made, Ichigo never had to trust Ginjo, in fact he didn't trust him at all at first, but he was just doing this to get his power back. Ichigo thought he was using the fullbringers, just like he thought he was using the vizards.

Ichigo uses powers from a hollow who has promised to crush him and devour him. If the devil were to give ichigo a way to gain power, he woudl accept. This whole idea of trust is ridic, and you and I know this.


Once agian, The main thing that put me off about this arc is just the fact that ichigo's fullbringer power seemed completely irrelevant to the sword giving him power back. And that makes the whole thing seem irrelevant. Even when they explain what someone must go through in order to gain fullbringer power, ichigo never says anything like.. "Hmm did that happen to my mother at my birth?" The logical questions are skipped, and battle ensue.

And all these questions that i'm raising are legit questions. You say I should have patience, and i'm trying, but over 450 chapters in there are still some questions I have from the first volume, so you will have to excuse me if I presume that kubo will not address things like this anytime soon if ever.

It seems we are just at odds. Because what you see as mystery, I see as terrible writing. You think Tsuki putting Ginjo (and possibly his whole team) under that spell is mysterious, I see it as bad writing. You think the fact that Ichigo has fullbringer power, and doens't seem to care about what happened to his mother at his birth is mysterious, I see it as bad writing. You think the fact they waited 2 years to restore the power of quite possibly the strongest shinigami is mysterious, I think its pointless.

Just a difference in taste when it comes to writing styles I guess. I suppose Chad and Orihime can be hollows, and Ishida can be a fullbringer, and Karin can be a vastrolorde, and i'm sure there will be some people who will call that "mysterious" as well.

:/

Trotter
August 31, 2011, 02:27 PM
I see you didn't even bother to try and refute my points, so since they all still stand, I guess everything you just said is refutted by me? Lol

Mayumura
August 31, 2011, 02:32 PM
WaveBossa, wow dude this is arc is something like "story about how we will return power to Ichigo and watch how he pwn some bad asses", main action will start after. Don't take this stuff so close to ya HEART.

exacta
September 06, 2011, 03:49 PM
Okay first the Ichigo stuff.

First of all, Isshin has implied that there are certain reasons why he wanted Ichigo to lose his powers, or rather not get them back. It hasn't been outright stated yet, but no reason to ask questions like why didn't Urahara stab him two years ago. Ichigo seemed content with his powers being lost. He made that decision after all. He didn't seem particularly emotional saying goodbye to Rukia. Fast-forwarding 17 months later though, he begins to miss them and becomes desperate. And out of desperation for finding some way to get his powers back, turns to Ginjou and listens to him when he says Urahara can't be trusted. Him seeing Urahara interacting with his sister behind his back does look weird.

And Urahara IS a good guy, but he is shady as hell. God knows how many details he's kept from Ichigo and everyone else, not to mention that last exchange between him and Aizen before the latter was sealed. There's a reason why Ichigo punched Urahara in the face when they saw him after SS. But he's still not an enemy, at least not yet. If Ichigo was in a normal state of mind he would've had better judgment. After all, he broke down pretty bad once Ginjou took his powers. It seemed like it didn't REALLY start to bother Ichigo until after a long time.....and again, Isshin considers this choice to be something that takes away Ichigo's future. So its understandable that he would seriously hesitate going through with this for awhile.

Now the Xcution stuff....

Why yes, someone can tell you why the Fullbringers are doing what their doing. His name is Tite Kubo. It's called patience pal. And Bleach is a manga that demands quite a bit of it.

And let me ask you. What seems easier? Infiltrating SS and fighting a shitload of captains, or leading on a kid who at the moment has no powers whatsoever and helping him develop some so he trusts you so at the right moment you just stab him and take them? Plus they needed someone who could use Fullbring. Only humans have this power apparently, or at least no one in SS. And how the hell would they even get in to SS??!!!! They aren't shinigami......and Kuugo is on bad terms with SS.

"Suspenderboystuff" was awesome. Yeah, Ginjou had Tsukishima not cut Ishida just for the lulz. Whats wrong with a character making things more interesting just for the lulz? If Ishida was cut too, Ichigo would've been COMPLETELY screwed. However, having Ishida be attacked by an enemy and still retaining the memory of that happening helped persuade Ichigo to seek out Kuugo Ginjou. They were never going to kill Orihime. Just turn her against Ichigo.

Having a reason for Ichigo to get his powers back aside from just because he wants them back makes him want them back that much more, and will make him complete his Fullbring faster, not to mention trust Xcution that much more since they now have a common enemy. Plus, they needed Ichigo's Fullbring, so they had to train him so he could complete it. What, you expect Ginjou to be like, " LOL sup bro can I train you to learn Fullbring so I can steal your powers"? I like Tsukishima. No ones been able to troll Ichigo as hard, not even Aizen. He's quite evil too. And if you don't even know his name is Tsukishima, then you should really read more closely. Maybe this arc wouldn't seem as confusing if you read it more closely.

Tsukishima's memory ability was just convenient for this situation. Plus Kuugo IS a bad actor. The moment he reverted he called Ichigo Kurosaki, Kubo pointed this out. Ginjou's act didn't have me convinced at all back then anyway. Kubo was making Ginjou's intentions extremely vague so we would be unsure of whether he was a good or not, in order to surprise us. Compare the "bad" Ginjou back then to the one we have right now, and tell me which one seems like more of a real villain.

Now the shady stuff. Well, Urahara's shady, and Isshin always has had a really weird parenting style towards Ichigo, which we won't understand until Isshin's past and what Ichigo's secret is is explained.

People in Bleach are shady. They have secrets and reasons for being vague. It's how it works. And if everyone was just willing to outright explain the plot and all the secrets and everything in a manga, there would be no suspense or plot twists, and the execution wouldn't be as good. It's called plot-induced stupidity. It's pretty much a necessity for shounen.

This arc is awesome IMO. And can someone please show me where Kubo said it was supposed to end with the SS arc??? Because Kubo planned to have Isshin be a shinigami from the beginning, and there were loads, LOADS of things that needed to be explained, Chad and Orihime's powers, who the hell Urahara Kisuke is,and Aizen's betrayal was not an asspull, Kubo prepared for that very well. Besides, how could the SS arc have ended if Aizen didn't betray them. Ichigo saves Rukia from being executed and.....what? It's not like he was going to convince SS to back off. He takes her to the living world? Yeah SS will just pursue her. Plus, that would mean that the ridiculously harsh orders that were Central 46's execution orders would've really just been ridiculously harsh orders....that would be kinda silly. And Captain Aizen died extremely early in the SS arc.

This arc isn't over, there are still questions that haven't been explained. Until they have been, you can't call those questions stupid. If you want to complain about the pacing though, or just find all of it boring, thats another thing.

crazy_man
September 06, 2011, 04:32 PM
Well here I was gonna make a post and exacta pretty much summed up my views on this topic and more, much, much more. :super

This arc is very refreshing to me, the only complaint I have at the moment was the lack of depth in Ichigo's fullbring abilities.

takugian
October 03, 2011, 06:42 PM
Worst Arc? Are you crazy????
In this arc, we see a Ichigo crying, crying a lot!!!
He lost his friends, Urahana and his father were hiding something of him. Oh my god! This arc was fucking good!
I've never seen Ichigo crying, his dissispear got clean for us and at final... After 8 months... Imagine! 8 months without seeing Ichigo shouts "BAN-KAI!", 8 months without shinigamis, Aizen and other! So.. at final... He comes back. A new Ichigo... A Ichigo that was crying. I love this Arc. Fantastic!

Sarmad
October 06, 2011, 11:01 AM
I don't think you understand the concept of a plothole very well. No offense is meant by this. A plothole is when something appears in the plot to explain something, yet contradicts everything else. So far you have not presented anything like that. I am presenting my points against you in a number fashioned and in chrological order. IE, every - statement you made is represented by a number in my post in order of me reading them (so from top to bottom).

1.We don’t know why, but it can easily be explained. Examples of arguments are: They wanted Ichigo to have a normal life. Even Urahara asked Isshin “Are you sure you want to do this? Your son won’t have a future after this.” in refrence to restoring his powers. Also, there probably wasn’t this threat two years ago either.

2. The argument that it took him two years to come up with it is fail, but Idon’t think that’s the reason at all.

3. How can he seek the help of Soul Society, especially when, when this arc began, he made it clear (when Keigo brought up Rukia) that the wanted nothing to do with them anymore. That and Ginjou’s manipulations pretty much turned things around for him.

4. Not sure how this is considered a plot hole but ok.

5. Ok….

6. Ok...x2

7. What did I just read? They didn’t say powerful Shinigami, just someone who is half Shinigami half Hollow. We don’t know why Ichigo could use fullbring, but it’s very likely that his REMAINING REIATSU, which he was said to have, had some of his HOLLOW REIATSU inside of it. In fact, that makes perfect logical sense because he had both Hollow and Shinigami reiatsu left in him. I see no issue here.

8. Because every Shinigami in the Soul Society goes around making love to humans and then those human-shinigami babies go and get Hollow powers. Yes, because this isn’t a Shounen manga where the main character has unlikely things happen to him. I think are you in the wrong genre.

9. Read new chatpers, etc, etc. Only hard to care if you don’t understand the concept of the genre itself.

10. Read new chatpers, etc, etc. Only hard to care if you don’t understand the concept of the genre itself.

11. His name is Tsukishima. Not sure how this is a plothole either, but ok.

12. This point encompasses your reasons (both one and two) for them being cut. They weren’t jerks, Ginjou was being terribly cliché, and Ichigo isn’t the hardest person to confuse. The acting wasn’t bad, because Ginjou was still believable and seemed like he had good intentions from the start. Also, this good acting was only a result of him being cut. Your logic here is horrid to read, isn’t contradicted at all, and shows your lack of understanding for the plot devices at play here.

13. Once again, what did I just read? The whole scene was to introduce Moe and for Orihime to be cut, as well as to established the relationship between Moe and Tsukishima. I think you are, once again, completely missing the point here in some kind of random blind hate for this arc that is completely unfounded. But I digress…

14. Isshin and Urahara both clearly seem to have realized that Ginjou is now involved with Ichigo. If they were to step in, who knew what Ginjou would do? Whisk Ichigo away and brainwash him (spoileralert: HE ALREADY DID THAT!!!)?

...

Overall I am very disappointed in everyone that liked, thanked and agreed with this post because it has numerous pitfalls in logic and is analyzing things in such a shallow manner that I feel like it was more of a chore to read the post then to reply. I mean no disrespect by this but I stand by what I said. Have a good day.

In response to your response(numbers refer to your numbers :) )

1. We don't know what Urahara actually meant by that line. We just assume he is saying that Ichigo getting his powers back would destroy his future ... which doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You could try enlighten me in that regard, if you can.

2. So what is the reason Urahara kept it secret? My Suspicion is that Kubo will never give us any explanation regarding this move from Urahara... who would think about this in 100 chapters anyway, right? By that time every fan will be like "Argh dont bug me with small glitches from 100 chapters ago!!"

3. So the main Protagonist went through 5 arcs or more and was reminded over and over again that he cannot fight by himself (his greatest lesson during the main fight with Kenpachi even taught him that) and he wouldn't think about contacting anybody from SS? Do you believe your own reasoning?

4. 5. 6. i'm not sure to what you were refering here but it doesn't seem all to important.

7. Ichigo united his Shinigami and Hollow powers and used his last technique which granted him powers beyong Aizens dimension for a short while only to loose them completely. That was the deal.. there were no residue powers left, except for the Fullbringer abilities... so i don't get what you are trying to say. Unless you say we can't trust any "facts" in Bleach...

8. Only thing i agree with you here. This story is supposed to revolve around Ichigo, so naturally he is conveniently picked. I never minded the concept of Fullbringers.

9.- 14. I don't really know what you are referring to all the time, since you don't make any quotes but i must add some of my own thoughts to the whole Tsukishima changing Ginjou and changing him back deal.
Explaining why Tsuki cut Ginjou by saying that he is a bad actor was an obvious mistake by Kubo. This IS a plothole btw. Tsukishima's ability is to insert himself into the memories of a person. That being said, how would Ginjou benefit from that ability? OK, Tsukishima becomes his enemy for a while ... but the idea is to steal Ichigo's powers. His goal (MOTIVATION/REASONING) never changes. So how exactly does this help Ginjou's acting abilities? His motivation for helping/tricking Ichigo does not change, he only adds 1 more person to his list of enemies! So it actually doesn't really make any sense that Ginjou's personality switched. And WaveBossa makes a valid point. I think that rather you are actually having a hard time understanding anything! Im shocked by your lack of thought, while you lecture others about logic and common sense.
"I don't mean any disrespect", just so you know.

And i'd like to add that i posted this, since Sky Render becomes too cocky when people support bad storywriting and we can't have that! :P



People in Bleach are shady. They have secrets and reasons for being vague. It's how it works. And if everyone was just willing to outright explain the plot and all the secrets and everything in a manga, there would be no suspense or plot twists, and the execution wouldn't be as good. It's called plot-induced stupidity. It's pretty much a necessity for shounen.

I call BS! Big BS... you are practically saying that Bleach is shit because it is a Shounen Manga and why bother discussing, since that's how Shounen Mangas roll!? This is in no way an argument for your cause. You essentially say that Kubo is too stupid to write a good story.

Zeltrax
October 07, 2011, 10:36 AM
My two cents about this arc:
Bear in mind that I don't think kubo can write a mindblowing story since SS arc.
Decent story..if he tries..yes.

Inconsistency about fullbring powers:
It has been stated that fullbring powers cannot evolved..
and yet apparently shown to us that it can evolve. Nor do kubo bother letting us in on how exactly it works. Also, what exactly is ichigo's fullbring? Isn't fullbring drawing powers from inanimate objects ? So why does he have this weird fb design ?
If your explanation to this is that the entire group of fullbringers is lying to ichigo about how fb works, that won't make sense because..
"Let's lie to ichigo that fullbring cannot evolve..and powers because.." of what ? There's no point, if you are aiming to get his powers, won't it be better to let him know everything that he can about it so that he can develop into its maximum ?



Wasted potential:
If you check the recent chapters, you'll realize how much potential kubo has wasted.
First, he show us how giriko's powers work and we know how scary it can be and for no reason or what so ever, he made giriko into a giant hollow like creature, I know you can explain that "its part of his power".
But..
he's basically just a giant hollow and fodder. The characters also experience a 180 degree change. To be honest, why go through an entire year showing us cool powers of characters only to throw them out of the window ?

Trust and characters:
I cannot emphasis on how much an impact characters make on a story.
Ichigo, the main character is human again. After 400 chapters, everyone would have expected ichigo to grow.
In shounen manga, understand this:
friendship and trust are both important elements of the story.

Ichigo rather trust some stranger he met than his own father. Will you normally entertain a person like ginjou in real life ?
Remember how everything started, everything started because ichigo sees his father being shady, urahara being shady and just at that moment ginjou question him about "what do you know about your father" .
Then we remember the moment during Fake Karahura arc, the conversation that ichigo had with isshin when he saw him in shinigami form..as compared to this ichigo that doubts his father.
Basically..because of his lack of trust in isshin and urahara (because they ..appear..shady) he went to a bunch of strangers, unknown whether they are good or bad and on the basis that ginjou claims that he knows more about isshin than he do..
to get back his shinigami powers.

Please remember that the ichigo that went to them did not have his entire friends stabbed by tsukishima yet. He wasn't mentally screwed, yet.
Now compare this guy to that same guy in chapter 1.
Apparently, living with his family for his entire life did not get ichigo to open up to them, to ask them about what's going on, to ask karin what's going on..even when they are family and they know ichigo is a shinigami.
Thing is, you can't deny the plotholes and the things that logically don't make sense in this arc. Kubo was at least trying to make the plot reasonable in FKT.

White Silver King
October 08, 2011, 09:27 AM
In my opinion, it certainly is the worst arc by far. It's just so incredibly boring.

packages
October 09, 2011, 12:41 PM
If I have the definition correct, one's Fullbring abilities are instilled or birthed into them by having parents who were attacked by Hollows before they were born. (I don't believe there are other ways at least, that have been introduced to us yet. But you never know, knowing KT.)
As speculated as early as the introduction arc, Hollow attacks can be widespread and massive, as well as concentrated on individuals. By this logic, the possibility of being born with Fullbring powers is significantly high. We can assume that one's ability to harness the power or even realize it is smaller than the probability of being born with it. Nonetheless, the logic (though unanimously considered flawed through the progression of this arc) would suggest that most people or a good number of people are born with these powers.

With this theory in mind, I'm beginning to think that this arc is really just the beginning of an entirely new world of Bleach. New levels of Fullbring, new characters and organizations. I cannot imagine that this arc will be as insignificant as the whole "Bount" deal in overall longterm plot development.

Perhaps this new knowledge will strengthen Orihime and Chad's powers to make them more than minimally supporting characters, and actually holding their own in battles ahead? Perhaps they will find their own group akin to the nature of the Visoreds, (or maybe a re-emergence because I miss them.)

Either way, thanks for reading my ill-organized, plot-holed theory.
:D

cracker
October 09, 2011, 06:11 PM
KK town is kinda a hotbed for activity, pretty sure no where else in the world has to deal with the stuff they deal with (the scale of it). So the highest concentration of fullbringers or potential fullbringers exist there.

As its concerns the powers, thats essentially how they come about, hollow attacking parents. Traces of hollow power remain, pass from mother to child but I don't think this is a guarantee. That is, every person this happens to becomes a fullbringer. And if that is the case, unless certain circumstances occur the potential will exist but it will be unfulfilled, they won't actually get powers. Kinda like how Ichigo was a potential fullbringer but unless Ginjo and company (certain circumstances) didn't train him more than likely he probably wouldn't have figured it out on his own.

And yeah this is suppose to be an assistance arc in a way, its suppose to give some background on Isshin, setup Ichigo getting back his abilities and also link to new conflicts, big bads, saving the world etc.

P.S Bount arc was a filler anime arc and has nothing to do with the manga.

Zeltrax
October 09, 2011, 09:20 PM
Bount was more interesting if you finish it till the end tho.
I never particularly like fullbring and their powers so I'll be glad if kubo just finish this arc and get done with them.
To me fb is just like humans with superpowers.

I don't think its an assistance arc, to me I see it more like a transition arc to begin part 2 of bleach and later on much more serious enemies will appear.

cracker
October 09, 2011, 10:06 PM
Bount was more interesting if you finish it till the end tho.
I never particularly like fullbring and their powers so I'll be glad if kubo just finish this arc and get done with them.
To me fb is just like humans with superpowers.

I don't think its an assistance arc, to me I see it more like a transition arc to begin part 2 of bleach and later on much more serious enemies will appear.

The Bount arc was fucking terrible -__-

Poor animation, crappy storyline, annoying support characters etc.

Transition, assistance...semantics, essentially the same time we were driving at (well definitely what I was driving at)

And yes, thats exactly what fullbringers are...humans with superpowers.

ca12nag3
October 10, 2011, 02:07 PM
The Bount arc was fucking terrible -__-

Poor animation, crappy storyline, annoying support characters etc.

Transition, assistance...semantics, essentially the same time we were driving at (well definitely what I was driving at)

And yes, thats exactly what fullbringers are...humans with superpowers.

Tbh wasnt the cards guy a lot like Yukio? I mean sitting in your room making inanimated objects do your fighting for you :D and in the end he got fucked over by his own power, not unlike what could have happend to Yukio if it wasnt for Hitsugaya killing those creatures and then freezing Yukio.

cracker
October 10, 2011, 03:36 PM
I can't remember specifics of the Bount arc, so I have no idea who you are talking about and at the moment have no desire whatsoever to check. I remember 1 scene explicitly though, the last fight between Kariya and Ichigo, where Kariya attacks Yourichi with a lightning bolt attack and she effortlessly cancels it out by holding up her palm to it...and I was like "WTF!?!" This dude is suppose to be a threat to SS? Kiss my ass animators...that was an extremely weak filler

The episodes were so bad I thought I might get cancer -__-

packages
October 10, 2011, 07:16 PM
I'll have to agree with cracker on this one - the bount arc was pretty uninteresting in my opinion. I knew that it wasn't in the manga, (trust me I checked the 2nd time I read the whole series over waiting for the FB arc to pick up.) which has actually deterred me entirely from watching the newer anime storyline that just ended. I think it takes place after Aizen, but before FB.

... And some ridiculousness about Mod-Soul rebellion and Gotei 13 clones or some garbage.

I digress.

Anyways, perhaps I'm wrong but it would seem that this arc is nearing an end in the not-so-distant future. I'm wondering how KT will (or if he will) make a smooth transition between such a large plot development in the manga and tie it into the main story. And I can't say I've really learned a whole lot about Isshin's history really, though maybe I just need to go back and read it again.

cracker
October 11, 2011, 08:43 AM
Its already the most popular manga (in Japan) of all time. Although it will never be what DB was.

Googlez_kun
October 11, 2011, 09:00 AM
No, this arc was great until the last few chapters, when it became obvious that editors jumped in because of the ratings. It was obvious that the arc was leading to something important, but now I have no idea where the hell it's heading to. The one problem that bothers me about this arc is that Ginjo can't be trusted, neither inside or outside of the story, this leads to all sorts of asumptions and "inconsistencies" because we never know if what he just said is true, example, Fullbrings coming from the traces a hollow left on a woman before giving birth and many other technical details.

The whole Ichigo-Isshin mistrust was also leading somewhere, if you pay attention it is obvious it wasn't just accidental. Now there's probably no way to continue from there since the past ~8 chapters have been so different.

I have decided to travel back a whole year into the past, buy a thousand of each week's JUMP magazine and vote for Bleach so the ratings don't drop, this way the arc will continue as it was intended to. Maybe even go back 9 years and do the same to the Shinigami agent arc, because it also jumped right into the Soul Society arc thanks to low ratings. Keigo, Tatsuki and Mizuiro are such overdeveloped characters for a nonexistent role in the story. Damn whoever keeps voting for One Piece, it already owns 2/5 of the anime and manga industry, literally, a few thousand votes won't drop it's rating, not even slightly.
Same here.Those recent chapters actually make it terrible as an arc.While the first chapters of this arc had a certain mood and theme,the later chapters totally screwed this up.I won't deny the fact that the Shinigami chapters have been kinda enjoyable,as we saw those old characters again,but they don't fit the arc at all.Furthermore,they destroyed the little originality Kubo tried to bring into the story.However,that's what Shonen JUMP is like.Original stuff is ignored,everything the kids want is mainstream shonen.It really is a pity,as I would've liked to see the original conclusion of this arc as well.

Its already the most popular manga (in Japan) of all time. Although it will never be what DB was.
Is that supposed to be a joke?:lmao

Zeltrax
October 11, 2011, 09:11 AM
I was re reading the start of the timeskip and I realize how much I enjoyed it and missed early bleach.
The unnecessary fb stuff shouldn't have been in there, not to go off topic but the first arc of bleach before ss is my favorite and most memorable one.

Bleach really do have a lot of potential even for this arc but it went downhill. It's like bleach can never survive without shinigami when the story is suppose to center around ichigo.
And I'll pretend I never heard that.

cracker
October 11, 2011, 09:31 AM
Same here.Those recent chapters actually make it terrible as an arc.While the first chapters of this arc had a certain mood and theme,the later chapters totally screwed this up.I won't deny the fact that the Shinigami chapters have been kinda enjoyable,as we saw those old characters again,but they don't fit the arc at all.Furthermore,they destroyed the little originality Kubo tried to bring into the story.However,that's what Shonen JUMP is like.Original stuff is ignored,everything the kids want is mainstream shonen.It really is a pity,as I would've liked to see the original conclusion of this arc as well.

Is that supposed to be a joke?:lmao

-___________________________________________________________________-

I was replying to Newbie. And he compared Bleach to One Piece in terms of ratings. Which of the two is more popular (by far at that)? Draw your own conclusions...pffft

Oh wait...you did and you were wrong, very wrong.

Googlez_kun
October 11, 2011, 09:44 AM
-___________________________________________________________________-

I was replying to Newbie. And he compared Bleach to One Piece in terms of ratings. Which of the two is more popular (by far at that)? Draw your own conclusions...pffft

Oh wait...you did and you were wrong, very wrong.
Oh,I see.Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No need to get mad,though.:hurr

The Newbie.
October 11, 2011, 11:28 AM
I was comparing One Piece's popularity with everything else. How many series get canceled because they only get a few dozen votes, or derailed from their original focus or story while other series like OP get thousands of votes unconditionally?

There are at least 5 times in Bleach where editors jumped in due to high or low popularity:
-The Shinigami Agent jumped right into the Soul Society arc due to low ratings. Not bad since the SS arc has better writing and consistence that the first arc.
-The manga doesn't end, extends into Aizen and the hogyoku. This had a lot of potential.
-Arrancar arc changed its focus to the shinigami against the Arrancar. This undid everything the AA was building up to.
-Arrancar arc is extended due to popularity. This was both good and bad, since the story became character focused from that point, but at the same time, it was inconsistent with the first 50 chapters of the arc.
-The Fullbring. I hate this one. This arc was fun and interesting, and it was clearly leading somewhere until the chapter after Rukia returns, where it turned into a fanservice display. I don't even bother to look for the spoilers anymore, it's not bad, but it's not what it is supposed to be.

cracker
October 11, 2011, 12:01 PM
No, this arc was great until the last few chapters, when it became obvious that editors jumped in because of the ratings. It was obvious that the arc was leading to something important, but now I have no idea where the hell it's heading to. The one problem that bothers me about this arc is that Ginjo can't be trusted, neither inside or outside of the story, this leads to all sorts of asumptions and "inconsistencies" because we never know if what he just said is true, example, Fullbrings coming from the traces a hollow left on a woman before giving birth and many other technical details.

The whole Ichigo-Isshin mistrust was also leading somewhere, if you pay attention it is obvious it wasn't just accidental. Now there's probably no way to continue from there since the past ~8 chapters have been so different.

I have decided to travel back a whole year into the past, buy a thousand of each week's JUMP magazine and vote for Bleach so the ratings don't drop, this way the arc will continue as it was intended to. Maybe even go back 9 years and do the same to the Shinigami agent arc, because it also jumped right into the Soul Society arc thanks to low ratings. Keigo, Tatsuki and Mizuiro are such overdeveloped characters for a nonexistent role in the story. Damn whoever keeps voting for One Piece, it already owns 2/5 of the anime and manga industry, literally, a few thousand votes won't drop it's rating, not even slightly.

Kinda read like you were more directly comparing Bleach to One Piece, in that One Piece is so popular regardless of whatever the story, he can keep telling it because fanwise it always gets the support. Too bad Bleach isn't like that. No shinigami, no votes lol


I was comparing One Piece's popularity with everything else. How many series get canceled because they only get a few dozen votes, or derailed from their original focus or story while other series like OP get thousands of votes unconditionally?

There are at least 5 times in Bleach where editors jumped in due to high or low popularity:
-The Shinigami Agent jumped right into the Soul Society arc due to low ratings. Not bad since the SS arc has better writing and consistence that the first arc.
-The manga doesn't end, extends into Aizen and the hogyoku. This had a lot of potential.
-Arrancar arc changed its focus to the shinigami against the Arrancar. This undid everything the AA was building up to.
-Arrancar arc is extended due to popularity. This was both good and bad, since the story became character focused from that point, but at the same time, it was inconsistent with the first 50 chapters of the arc.
-The Fullbring. I hate this one. This arc was fun and interesting, and it was clearly leading somewhere until the chapter after Rukia returns, where it turned into a fanservice display. I don't even bother to look for the spoilers anymore, it's not bad, but it's not what it is supposed to be.

It happens man. Unfortunately we don't live in a society where the majority would prefer well thought out stories. You can use Hollywood as reference. Its all about the fanservice, pleasing fans etc rather than I tell a story and you read and become involved. Its my story I'm not changing to please you, if you like it so be it...if not, move on. From experience when its done like that its usually better. And honestly if you going to do fanservice at atleast do it cool -__-

To be honest I was pretty pissed when I saw the captains come back...I was like "WTF? No, already!?!"

The Newbie.
October 11, 2011, 12:44 PM
Kinda read like you were more directly comparing Bleach to One Piece, in that One Piece is so popular regardless of whatever the story, he can keep telling it because fanwise it always gets the support. Too bad Bleach isn't like that. No shinigami, no votes lol



It happens man. Unfortunately we don't live in a society where the majority would prefer well thought out stories. You can use Hollywood as reference. Its all about the fanservice, pleasing fans etc rather than I tell a story and you read and become involved. Its my story I'm not changing to please you, if you like it so be it...if not, move on. From experience when its done like that its usually better. And honestly if you going to do fanservice at atleast do it cool -__-

To be honest I was pretty pissed when I saw the captains come back...I was like "WTF? No, already!?!"

Yeah, this world sucks, I'm going to create a new one. Anyway, the captains might have been planned to return at the same time Rukia did, but the current development is contrived. Someone replaced Underscore for a week and focused on Kut...Kusog... Giriko suddenly doing a 180 turn in personality. Same has happened with the recent chapters, it all took a different direction.

Sarmad
October 12, 2011, 03:43 AM
I have a general question to the last few postings, since everyone except me is in on the loop... how do you know exactly that editors steered Bleach' story at a given point?
I could claim the same thing as soon as i detect bad story writing, but without any prove, it wouldn't be worth much. So, how do you guys know and is there any proof?
Further, even when Editors attempt to interfere with Kubo's work, he shouldn't let them. Simple as that. Bleach has an enormous fan community and commercially its been in a good spot since SS Arc, i imagine. So how come that he has no artistic freedom? He has all the leverage anyone could have, so why wouldn't he use it to do whatever he wants?

Someone mentioned One Piece in this Thread and i don't actually wanna spend any time discussing it here.
However, i want to clearly say that One Piece isn't just popular for nothing. It is by far (!!) one of the best stories ever told. Bleach currently, cannot even compare to OP's Quality. The Balance in story telling is almost perfect and the quality of the chapters is a peak, rarely reached by any manga or epic story. I won't even mention the originallity and cultural worth of it ...
Saying something like "it's popular no matter how good or bad it is", is just petty talk. So far it is an absolute Force. It hasn't become like Dragonball Z or Bleach yet, and probably never will since Oda is smart and creative enough.

Googlez_kun
October 12, 2011, 02:48 PM
I have a general question to the last few postings, since everyone except me is in on the loop... how do you know exactly that editors steered Bleach' story at a given point?
I could claim the same thing as soon as i detect bad story writing, but without any prove, it wouldn't be worth much. So, how do you guys know and is there any proof?
Further, even when Editors attempt to interfere with Kubo's work, he shouldn't let them. Simple as that. Bleach has an enormous fan community and commercially its been in a good spot since SS Arc, i imagine. So how come that he has no artistic freedom? He has all the leverage anyone could have, so why wouldn't he use it to do whatever he wants?

Someone mentioned One Piece in this Thread and i don't actually wanna spend any time discussing it here.
However, i want to clearly say that One Piece isn't just popular for nothing. It is by far (!!) one of the best stories ever told. Bleach currently, cannot even compare to OP's Quality. The Balance in story telling is almost perfect and the quality of the chapters is a peak, rarely reached by any manga or epic story. I won't even mention the originallity and cultural worth of it ...
Saying something like "it's popular no matter how good or bad it is", is just petty talk. So far it is an absolute Force. It hasn't become like Dragonball Z or Bleach yet, and probably never will since Oda is smart and creative enough.
Ever read Bakuman?Editors and Manga-ka are a team and no,Kubo has no artistic freedom.As long as the manga doesn't sell,the editors will do everything in order to change that.I don't know if you looked at the TOC(Table of Contents,which roughly reflects the popularity of a manga),but Bleach was veeery low during the fullbring arc,so the conlusion comes close that the editor forced Kubo to change the content in order to make Bleach more popular again.
Most of the sudden and illogical developments find their roots there.

cracker
October 12, 2011, 03:35 PM
Someone mentioned One Piece in this Thread and i don't actually wanna spend any time discussing it here.
However, i want to clearly say that One Piece isn't just popular for nothing. It is by far (!!) one of the best stories ever told. Bleach currently, cannot even compare to OP's Quality. The Balance in story telling is almost perfect and the quality of the chapters is a peak, rarely reached by any manga or epic story. I won't even mention the originallity and cultural worth of it ...
Saying something like "it's popular no matter how good or bad it is", is just petty talk. So far it is an absolute Force. It hasn't become like Dragonball Z or Bleach yet, and probably never will since Oda is smart and creative enough.

Firstly, One Piece isn't nowhere near one of the greatest stories ever told. Jeez...if there was a list I doubt it would make the top 1 million and I'm not exaggerating. Your statement encompasses everything that as ever tried to tell a story...games, movies, poems, art etc.

In its genre Shonen One Piece is certainly good there. But once again I say it will never be what Dragonball (notice I'm referring to the manga) was. Dragonball defined the genre and made it so all these people: Kubo, The dude that writes Naruto, Oda etc can get work. Hell they all cite him (Akira) as a major influence and they all at times pay homage to him. Dragonball never tried to hide what it was, it was extremely straight forward. Every major arc there was a big bad...big bad enters, defeats heroes, heroes train...heroes return and beat big bad (variate every now and then). It wasn't like Bleach and Naruto that tried to come up with some big twist that would shock and amaze you, when most times a little exercise in common sense and you'd see it coming a mile away. Akira wanted badly to finish Dragonball and was basically forced to continue long after he wanted to stop. Death threats and the works, pffft if it was up to the fans at the time it would still be on going and still be by far the most popular manga ever.

And One Piece is also nowhere as unique as you think it is. I could get into the nitty gritty of it but alot of the elements are borrowed from all over. There are a some original presentation of the abilities but nothing to set your house on fire.

The Newbie.
October 12, 2011, 06:31 PM
One Piece can go to hell, I'm using it as an example, because no matter how good another series is, or how bad a chapter may be, it will constantly rank on top, or at least better than 90% of the series ranked. Fun fact: One Piece is now bigger than DragonBall and Naruto COMBINED, and it's sales represent 2/5 of the anime and manga industry. Other series can't even dream of becoming that big, not even actual literary masterpieces, hell, all of Ozamu Tezuka's works put together barely top One Piece in popularity, and he is an actual genious and innovator.

Back to actual important, less infuriating and controversial topics, Bleach is not in a position where Kubo has freedom over his work. Just as soon as the Arrancar arc ended, Bleach dropped from the top 5 to the bottom 10 in popularity. Recently it hit rock bottom at the bottom 2 and the editors most probably told him to either add some fanservice (Rukia's return was planned for the 10th aniversary, but the return of shinigami so soon wasn't) or get the fuck out of JUMP. You just have to reread this arc and see how it was building up for something big but as soon as the shinigami began fighting the Fullbring it all went to hell. Only Riruka, Tsukishima and Ginjo remain relevant, everything else was forced to leave, like Chad (He was the 32nd place in a popularity poll just after Soul Society arc). Everything that was supposed to happen didn't thanks to some asshole's intervention on the story.

Zeltrax
October 12, 2011, 06:58 PM
This thread is going off topic. I want to address you here but maybe a mod can move it to a thread where it belongs.


Firstly, One Piece isn't nowhere near one of the greatest stories ever told. Jeez...if there was a list I doubt it would make the top 1 million and I'm not exaggerating. Your statement encompasses everything that as ever tried to tell a story...games, movies, poems, art etc.

Not really. Sure, if we look at it globally.
However, please don't forget that it is still the number one selling manga in japan. When we take the number one selling story in japan as compared to the world..it is still one of the greatest. Clearly, op is popular, respected and loved for a reason.




In its genre Shonen One Piece is certainly good there. But once again I say it will never be what Dragonball (notice I'm referring to the manga) was. Dragonball defined the genre and made it so all these people: Kubo, The dude that writes Naruto, Oda etc can get work. Hell they all cite him (Akira) as a major influence and they all at times pay homage to him. Dragonball never tried to hide what it was, it was extremely straight forward.

To be honest...not really, even dragonball's premise wasn't original. It was somewhat of an adaption of "Journey to the west". Being a chinese, I know very well how Journey to the west works and DB did borrow elements from that. DB might have helped define the genre and make some things cliche but he didn't made it so they can get work.


Every major arc there was a big bad...big bad enters, defeats heroes, heroes train...heroes return and beat big bad (variate every now and then).
DB's plot is nothing to go crazy about, the first half of it maybe but the second half got repetitive and the constant use of plot devices makes it so obviously similar. In terms of story-telling , one piece does not lose to db.




It wasn't like Bleach and Naruto that tried to come up with some big twist that would shock and amaze you, when most times a little exercise in common sense and you'd see it coming a mile away.

I agree, the thing about db is while every arc had one overhype villain that is insanely strong and ends with db cast taking care of him..
You can never really expect what will happen in the process.


Akira wanted badly to finish Dragonball and was basically forced to continue long after he wanted to stop. Death threats and the works, pffft if it was up to the fans at the time it would still be on going and still be by far the most popular manga ever.

A good manga knows when to end.
By that time, db started running on its popularity and not really on what originally made it good. It strayed off far.
Also, bleach is a good example. This arc for instance, kubo might have wanted to introduce something new but due to the editors, he's forced to bring the shinigamis back therefore we can also say that the Bleach now is somewhat running on its popularity.

By the end of cell arc or even the start of it, the original db feel is nowhere to be found.
It soon turned out to be constantly about powerups and more powerups.
I really do not want to see Bleach take this turn.





And One Piece is also nowhere as unique as you think it is. I could get into the nitty gritty of it but alot of the elements are borrowed from all over. There are a some original presentation of the abilities but nothing to set your house on fire.

One Piece is original because its experience is so much different than any other manga. Sure, the setting is "cliche" with a young boy setting out on an journey to search for a treasure but what really made it great and unique like others have said a thousand times before, is the journey.
If you insist on bringing db to the discussion, at the time db reached the mark where op is, the journey has been lost and forgotten. The later parts of db and op are different things imo.

I'm pretty sure the enies lobby and the war arc didn't set houses on fire but they made grown men reading cry.

cracker
October 12, 2011, 07:36 PM
his thread is going off topic. I want to address you here but maybe a mod can move it to a thread where it belongs.


Not really. Sure, if we look at it globally.
However, please don't forget that it is still the number one selling manga in japan. When we take the number one selling story in japan as compared to the world..it is still one of the greatest. Clearly, op is popular, respected and loved for a reason.


Being popular does not equal being good....subpar things can be popular, not necessarily referring to One Piece just showing a general flaw in your logic. By your case Twilight is the best thing to ever to the fiction of vampires...let me share a secret, its not -___-



To be honest...not really, even dragonball's premise wasn't original. It was somewhat of an adaption of "Journey to the west". Being a chinese, I know very well how Journey to the west works and DB did borrow elements from that. DB might have helped define the genre and make some things cliche but he didn't made it so they can get work.

DB's plot is nothing to go crazy about, the first half of it maybe but the second half got repetitive and the constant use of plot devices makes it so obviously similar. In terms of story-telling , one piece does not lose to db.

Never said DB was original. It just never hid what it was and also it defined its genre. I remember hearing about Journey to the West reference.



One Piece is original because its experience is so much different than any other manga. Sure, the setting is "cliche" with a young boy setting out on an journey to search for a treasure but what really made it great and unique like others have said a thousand times before, is the journey.
If you insist on bringing db to the discussion, at the time db reached the mark where op is, the journey has been lost and forgotten. The later parts of db and op are different things imo.

I'm pretty sure the enies lobby and the war arc didn't set houses on fire but they made grown men reading cry.

Meh, I don't get that feel from shonen anymore...way too much exposure. One Piece execution is different, so I guess the experience is somewhat different but at the core its still shonen riddled with all the cliches, homages, rehashes etc.

The Newbie.
October 12, 2011, 08:47 PM
I deleted my post so now you delete yours. This thread shouldn't become worse that it already is.

hopeandlight
October 13, 2011, 02:40 AM
the reason this arc hasn't been so enjoyable is Xcution haven't had a lot of backstory
the only character that seems to have a decent backstory is yukio ( of couse he was defeated quickly)
Jackie Tristan sort of ..., she had a lot of dialogue with Renji, so that's good

thornofcarrion
October 18, 2011, 11:25 AM
the reason this arc hasn't been so enjoyable is Xcution haven't had a lot of backstory
the only character that seems to have a decent backstory is yukio ( of couse he was defeated quickly)
Jackie Tristan sort of ..., she had a lot of dialogue with Renji, so that's good

I agree to some extent. Yes, we did not get much of backstory of Fullbringers. Tuski and Ginjou still drew more attention. Yukio's brief backstory was enough considering the part he played in the arc.

exacta
October 18, 2011, 11:29 AM
One Piece is so severely overrated.......and it's bored me since the Sabaody arc, which was over a hundred chapters ago, and my boredom with it has gotten much worse since we started the current arc. Personally, I think the reason it does so consistently well with fans is because Oda constantly follows the same pattern:
1. SH's arrive at a new island
2.new enemy appears with a dubious plan
3. Luffy gets owned by new enemy/some kind of setback for SH crew happens
4. something happens, somebody cries/screams
5. Luffy comes back and beats the crap out of new enemy

Oda always gives the fans the exact pattern that they want. He doesn't switch anything up like Kubo tried to do with the Fullbring arc, taking out all the shinigami, taking away Ichigo's shinigami powers and having it focus solely on what its like for Ichigo having a normal life without having any powers and interacting with completely new characters and getting a completely new power.

However, Ginjo being revealed as an ex-substitute shinigami might help the Xcution plot....well it doesn't matter now though, since SS is here, everyone is content in Japan I would think. I was fine with SS and Ichigo owning, it made sense. Don't think it harmed the plot, though I'll be disappointed if Jackie isn't alive, want to know about her flashback. Giriko got trolled, but whatever, he was pretty quite and arrogant anyway.Tsukishima actually beating Byakuya would be a delicious surprise though, and Moe has made Fullbringers look like they have the capacity to be threatening.....and I have high expectations from Ginjo. He is a shinigami after all, so I don't think Kubo will troll him.

The Newbie.
October 18, 2011, 01:26 PM
One Piece is so severely overrated.......and it's bored me since the Sabaody arc, which was over a hundred chapters ago, and my boredom with it has gotten much worse since we started the current arc. Personally, I think the reason it does so consistently well with fans is because Oda constantly follows the same pattern:
1. SH's arrive at a new island
2.new enemy appears with a dubious plan
3. Luffy gets owned by new enemy/some kind of setback for SH crew happens
4. something happens, somebody cries/screams
5. Luffy comes back and beats the crap out of new enemy

Oda always gives the fans the exact pattern that they want. He doesn't switch anything up like Kubo tried to do with the Fullbring arc, taking out all the shinigami, taking away Ichigo's shinigami powers and having it focus solely on what its like for Ichigo having a normal life without having any powers and interacting with completely new characters and getting a completely new power.

However, Ginjo being revealed as an ex-substitute shinigami might help the Xcution plot....well it doesn't matter now though, since SS is here, everyone is content in Japan I would think. I was fine with SS and Ichigo owning, it made sense. Don't think it harmed the plot, though I'll be disappointed if Jackie isn't alive, want to know about her flashback. Giriko got trolled, but whatever, he was pretty quite and arrogant anyway.Tsukishima actually beating Byakuya would be a delicious surprise though, and Moe has made Fullbringers look like they have the capacity to be threatening.....and I have high expectations from Ginjo. He is a shinigami after all, so I don't think Kubo will troll him.

I kind of agree with you, but please drop the One Piece criticism, it all started because I used it as an example of relative ratings.

exacta
October 18, 2011, 01:34 PM
I kind of agree with you, but please drop the One Piece criticism, it all started because I used it as an example of relative ratings.

Sorry....sometimes there are certain OP fanboys that come in on other discussions that have nothing to do with the manga and start going on about how One Piece is better than said manga and even call Oda's writing "godly" or something like that. It's so annoying. I try to stay on topic, but whenever OP criticisms start going on in a thread I'm reading I can't resist lol.

The Newbie.
October 18, 2011, 01:39 PM
Sorry....sometimes there are certain OP fanboys that come in on other discussions that have nothing to do with the manga and start going on about how One Piece is better than said manga and even call Oda's writing "godly" or something like that. It's so annoying. I try to stay on topic, but whenever OP criticisms start going on in a thread I'm reading I can't resist lol.

Then ignore them because rabid fanboys of any given series tend to be ignorant and wrong. Stay on topic or better yet, stay away from bad threads like these, hate posts tend to be as bad as fanboy posts.

Zeltrax
October 19, 2011, 01:53 AM
I'm actually surprised that nobody compared this arc to SS, pre-ss, pre-arrancar and arrancar saga yet.
But instead we are comparing them to DB and OP. Granted, we all have our own personal opinions on which one is more..godly.
To actually stay on topic, I suggest we compare the current arc to the previous arcs to say which is worse.
I'll rank bleach arcs according to my enjoyment of them, not sure if its allowed in this thread:
Pre-SS > SS > Pre-Arrancar > FKT Arc (Starting from when kenpachi saves ichigo) > TBP > Fullbrings arc > Arrancar arc (where ichigo team enters hueco and fight from there.)
But really, if ichigo vs aizen can be an "arc", it'll be the worst.
No matter how we look at it though..over the course of 10 years Bleach only had 2 major sagas.

ChiiChoh
November 13, 2011, 01:29 AM
I was thinking about the same, I used to be very excited when Bleach, Naruto and One Piece came out every Wednesdays and such; but now Bleach has kind of just drifted away from what used to be.
The chapters now are just kind of dry.

SaitoSpike
November 15, 2011, 01:36 PM
THANK YOU Wavebossa...damn i been feelin like this the entire time and its jus so damn frustrating, and if you vent after each damn ridiculously inconsistent/pointless/etc chapter than u just get hated on, so im gald someone started a 'venting discussion' if i may call it so....to me the thing thats been been keeping me coming back is the art, always flawless its almost like at this point Kubo should do the art and hand over the writing to a capable writer everytime it seems like he's got a chance to redeem his story and many holes and many many untold/unfinnished details he only seems to manage to add to the list...and this isnt bashing its an observation that is just OBVIOUS


i agree wtih many of the points you made and its been bothering me forever too, Bleach seems to be a manga that requires an incredible amount of patience from its readers/fans....but DAMN....come on Kubo

this arc should definetly just end as 'the arc to get ichigo his powers back' and nothing more because its only gonna make things worse if more comes out of this situation with these convenient, yet needless fullbringers

WordlessDemon
November 21, 2011, 01:44 PM
Op is a good manga but to become the god of the mangas it has a lot more to go (Op fan).
This arc i really liket it at the begining because it had a lot of misterys, but now it has dropped a little because of the fights and the part that i haven't enjoyd was the rirukka rukia fight it was sooo booring and rukia after 1 and a half year hasn't improved much i tought she was more than just talk and a midget. I hope that this arc endes with a big boom like the king of souls that comes and stopps ginjo or ichigo or somthing like this

Darjaille
November 21, 2011, 02:45 PM
Hm, for me this arc wasn't good until the fights came. I enjoyed every shinigami fight until now, even though I am a bit disappointed with Riruka vs Rukia. It's clear that Kubo made Rukia not show everything she got, so I'm just hoping that it means there's a fight prepared for her that is super awesome or something..
plus, so far it seems likeit's not end for Riruka's story (I'm guessing Riruka possessed Rukia) and I'm quite looking forward to see what happened and what will be the consequencies.
I think the story sucked, fights were good for me.

But this arc really needs epic ending. Opening to the new arc. Hell, Royal Realm, King, whoever. The 'restart'.

WordlessDemon
November 21, 2011, 03:41 PM
I hope it will have an epic ending, riruka possessing rukia is pretty cool but who knows maybe she forsaw the ending of this mess and got away before she gets pawned. The fights were a little lame, because the sinigami are much more powerful then the Fullbrings users, and it was like killing time for them so i haven't seen epic fights like the ones in the other arcs (hueco mundo, karakura town).

thornofcarrion
November 22, 2011, 12:06 AM
I hope it will have an epic ending, riruka possessing rukia is pretty cool but who knows maybe she forsaw the ending of this mess and got away before she gets pawned. The fights were a little lame, because the sinigami are much more powerful then the Fullbrings users, and it was like killing time for them so i haven't seen epic fights like the ones in the other arcs (hueco mundo, karakura town).

Could be, if I am not horribly mistaken, Riruka didn't desire to have Ichigo's powers. She did not strike me as an evil character. I agree, except for Tsuki vs. Byakuya, the rest of the battles weren't that good.

WordlessDemon
November 22, 2011, 05:06 AM
Could be, if I am not horribly mistaken, Riruka didn't desire to have Ichigo's powers. She did not strike me as an evil character. I agree, except for Tsuki vs. Byakuya, the rest of the battles weren't that good.

I agree, the byakuya fight was pretty amazing but not because tsuki was so powerful but because byakuya owned him in a great way, the other were just "yeah okay nice" but nothing special.

Darjaille
November 27, 2011, 03:09 PM
Many of us has asked what the point is with the fullbring arc over the time since it started, so far, the point seems to have been revealed to be Ichigo's personal development and to give the reader new perspectives on SS, along with fresh new artworks.
If nothing big comes out of Ichigo starting to question Soul Society after all the mistrust, then this arc would return to pointless, nothing came out of it... A story is a red line, not a circle afterall, development!
I'd say this arc was
1) to give our Deathberry his powers back (because it couldn't be done just like, 'One chapter, lost powers, second chapter, time-skip, third chapter let's give him his powers back... why would he need to loose them then?)
2) expand on the hints left before (Ishida's feelings of the badge, Afro-guy not knowing about it)
3) transition arc between two BIG arcs

4) yes, to connect us to the next arc. Attacking Soul Society? He wouldn't be able to attack half of the Cpts and Lts (bcos of the bonds, feeling etc etc. They cannot be erased just like that, by one badge thing. We have seen that Ichigo still trusts Isshin even after he was being lied to for 17 years. He didn't ask anything.). Yeah so let's let him wipe out other 2900 shinigami who are below the level of fodder. After we were told that Cpt Commander has started changing thanks to Ichigo. Especially after we've heard that the Soul King is something 'it' and awful (foreshadowing of unseating him).
Soul Society has already started changing. Thanks to Ichigo. Ginjou can go to.....

I don't think, I just CAN'T see why should Kubo make Ichigo turn against SS.

oniichan powaa
December 24, 2011, 09:42 PM
Agree.
I believe that this arc will connect the next arc with 'Turn the Pendulum' chapters. We'll see more about the past of SS and Ichigo (might) go against the Spirit King (for the sake of his friends, again). Just an opinion..