Gravity Children, Original Regalia and Roads

[suarhnir]

oyos

so we can continue the discussion about the regalias and the grav kids without getting so off-topic in the chapter spoilers/discussion thread...



Anyway, was Nina really a Gravity Child?

@Suahnir: If each Road has three different variants and three different Regalia, then how come there were three Ring Road Riders, including Simca? They all must have had Pledge Regalia replicas, too . . . well, either way, I hope we get some answers on this soon because I'm confused.

And also consider this: if there were three of each Regalia, one being one of the main eight and the other two being those that branch off from it, then there were actually 24 Regalia, meaning that there would need to be 4 extras to cover for all of the 28 Fist Gen. Gravity Children. I just thought of this, but what if the four extras were actually Pledge Regalia copies? And Nike is one of those four extra Gravity Children, right? And we know he was originally a Wing Road Rider; we also saw in the Gazelle and Kaito flashback that he and Sora both had one half of Bagram each. Nike most likely gave Sora his half of Bagram before he stole the Gem Regalia core from Kilik.

Kanon referring to the Hurricane Road as the "genuine Ninth Path of the Regalia" also comes to mind; I'm still confused about this, in the wake of the 28 different Regalia thing. I guess, for the Hurricane Road to still be the genuine 9th Road, we have to think that it's the genuine 9th main Road. It just doesn't have two other Roads branching off from it (of course, it doesn't need to).

yes, nina is a grav kid of the 1st gen... there's speculation that she uses that suit to actually move around because she lost the use of her real legs. i can't remember if it was genuinely mentioned (have to go through the chapters again) but someone brought it up in one of the chapter discussions. **found it: there's no confirmation that nina can't walk, that line of her saying the old her that clung to ground in chapter 272 was actually supposed to be 'the old me, when i lived on the surface'... somehow, i think, someone interpreted the english translation as 'when i used to walk (with her own legs)'.

the cores that have the same branching road doesn't have to be an exact copy. they could be similar abilities with slightly different applications. a clear demonstration of this concept is falco/agito vs gabishi. you have the same fang but one is a slice while the other is a piercing strike. the regalia that the 1st gen grav kids could have been different in that same way, where you have the same base concept/road but the way it is used is different and therefore an actual different regalia that focuses more on that variation would have been made. another example is kanon/merlin vs kururu/ine; kururu and ine use the pledge regalia as a means of connecting to others to share abilities of tuning where as kanon and merlin have a very offensive application of sound; there could have been a regalia for the ring road that may have had a similar focus in offensive (we don't know for sure but the idea is possible since we have kanon and merlin to prove it). simca's regalia could have been a much different variation than what ine ended up using so simca wouldn't be lugging around a huge cross like the current pledge queen does.

it's not that the branching roads are only sub-class, but that they are focused in a certain aspect where the main road is a more 'pure/simple' version. the apollon road is a branch of the flame road with its focus more on speed to execute the time tricks where the flame road, in general, uses speed to create friction/flames. nike's regalia was probably a variation of the wind regalia, but not exactly bagram... which if it is true that in gazelle's flashback, that sora and nike shared their cores together (so both had two regalia but of just one wheel and on one a-t) it would make sense that even if both cores had a base in the wind road, that both semi activated forms looked different.

as for the ninth road, i was actually thinking that it is in essence the sky regalia. however, not like sky regalia that is the system control but a more practical use that everyone who doesn't really know what the sky regalia is would have believed it to be - the greatest a-t regalia of them all, one that is superior and/or inclusive of all roads.

[DragonOsman2]

The Storm Regalia is the 9th Regalia, but until it gets all eight Regalia combined into it (which I hope it doesn't), it's not an AT Sky Regalia.

And Kanon is a Tuner, same for Simca. The Ring Road is mainly a Tuners' Road. The dark-skinned girl Kanon fought is most likely also a Tuner, except that, like Kanon, she also found an offensive way to use sound. Simca is Genesis' Pledge Queen, and Rune is also a Ring Road. Simca, Rune, and that dark-skinned girl Kanon fought are Tuners, so they're on the Ring Road. And as for lugging around a giant cross, couldn't there have been a way to "fold" it up? That's wishful thinking on my part, but still.

And I know that branching "Sub-Roads" wouldn't have to have the same concept; that's why I was already thinking that Horn Regalia's Road is probably one of the two Roads that branch off from the Bloody Road. The Lather Road is probably a Sub-Road of the Flame Road, though it might actually be the second Sub-Road of the Bloody Road, I guess, since it uses air in a similar way that the Fangs do.

And Nike was called Sora's shadow, remember? Nike was also originally a Wing Road Rider; not a Rider on one of the Roads that branch off of the Wing Road, but the Wing Road itself, and I'm sure he and Sora had one half of Bagram each. Recall that Nike's Jade Road was Wing Road + Gaia Road. He was Sora's twin, and also his shadow, so like his brother, he, too, was able to catch the wind as a child. If his Road was one of the Sub-Roads, it'd have had a different name than "Wing Road".

As for the Apollon and Avalon Roads, I'd say they're actually part of the Flame Road, not Sub-Roads of it. Kazu used the Trick "St. Elmo's Crossfire" with the Flame Regalia, after all. If it were to have been a Sub-Road's Trick, it'd have its own Regalia, separate from the Flame Regalia. Oh and, don't forget that that Loli girl with the All-purpose Regalia Prototype, Folke Wulf, used the Trick "St. Elmo's Crossfire" as one of Spitfire's Tricks, too. Wouldn't that actually mean that if his tendons hadn't been injured during that battle between Kilik's and Sora's sides in the old Sleeping Forest back then, he wouldn't have needed Aeon's help in using that Trick and could have done it on his own? That's all the Flame Road itself, Spitfire using doing that stuff should be proof enough.

By the way, the version of my post you quoted is out-dated . . . I edited it a bunch of times after that and it's longer now as well. Here:
@Suahnir: If each Road has three different variants and three different Regalia, then how come there were three Ring Road Riders, including Simca? They all must have had Pledge Regalia replicas, too . . . well, either way, I hope we get some answers on this soon because I'm confused.

What are the chances that Minami will make another Storm Regalia using parts at his own lab, letting Ikki give back the cores that given to him (since Minami would make the Regalia the same way as Kururu, but without having to combine Regalia since he was the one who made all of the Regalia in the first place)? The Gem, Flame, Fang, and Rumble, and Thunder Regalia cores can rebuilt, but if Minami makes a Storm Regalia that is already a combination of those ones and the Wind Regalia core, allowing Ikki to give the originals (plus the Thunder core; Minami rebuilt another one already and that's the one Ikki's going to be using) back. I won't like it if Kazu and Agito don't get their cores, and I'm also not gong to like it if the Rumble King, Gem King, and Thunder King aren't chosen to fill in those empty seats.

By the way, have you guys noticed? I read some chapters again, and like Carnevil said, Kilik was being referred to as the Gem King still, even without the Gem Regalia. Even though Nike was the one with the Regalia, the rest of the AT world was actually still considering Kilik the Gem King. Simca was really the only one who called him the "ex-Gem King of the Jade Road".

Edit: About the 28 Regalia, I also have to add that if what you're saying is true, Suahnir, then Orca, Alexander, Shallot, and Arthur had different Roads from the ones they're using now. The Bloody Road was Falco's, the Flame Road was Spitfire's, and the Over Road was Dontores', and yet Genesis' Fang, Flame, and Rumble King are those guys (minus Shallot, the other Over Road Rider aside from Arthur the Rumble King). I really would like to know what their Roads were; hopefully, if it's true, the manga will talk about it soon.

And about Gabishi: As I said, his Road is very much like the Bloody Road, right down to the fact that he injures his opponent directly with his attacks--the only difference between the Bloody Road and Gabisihi's Road is that the former targets the whole body while the latter targets just the face. And the Infinity Atmosphere is also similar, though I guess if the Horn Regalia is one of those 20 Regalia that branch off form the main eight, it makes sense for its Infinity Atmosphere to be similar to that of the Fang since it's a Regalia that branches off from the Fang Regalia.

Mikan's Road, the Gale Road, is a Wing Road variant. But Mikan wasn't one of the First Generation, she's of the Second Generation, so her Regalia, if it has a core, can't be one of the 28. I think there's a higher chance of her Regalia being a core-less Wind Regalia, since she's Sleeping Forest's Fuujin (Wind God), as stated by Ume (Ume just doesn't say it out-loud).

As for Om, as previously stated on here, there's a possibility that her Lather Road is one that branches of from the Flame Road somehow, despite being of the opposite element. I think it's also possible that Om and Gabishi aren't using their cores, if they had them while in the Tower (in the case that the Regalia they're using turn out to be the ones they had while in the Tower).

And also consider this: if there were three of each Regalia, one being one of the main eight and the other two being those that branch off from it, then there were actually 24 Regalia, meaning that there would need to be 4 extras to cover for all of the 28 Fist Gen. Gravity Children. I just thought of this, but what if the four extras were actually Pledge Regalia copies? And Nike is one of those four extra Gravity Children, right? And we know he was originally a Wing Road Rider; we also saw in the Gazelle and Kaito flashback that he and Sora both had one half of Bagram each. Nike most likely gave Sora his half of Bagram before he stole the Gem Regalia core from Kilik.

Kanon referring to the Hurricane Road as the "genuine Ninth Path of the Regalia" also comes to mind; I'm still confused about this, in the wake of the 28 different Regalia thing. I guess, for the Hurricane Road to still be the genuine 9th Road, we have to think that it's the genuine 9th main Road. It just doesn't have two other Roads branching off from it (of course, it doesn't need to).

About the Hurricane Road, I really do hope it doesn't get any other Roads added in, though I do want to see how good Ikki would be at using Sonia Road Tricks. I can't help but keep hoping that if Ikki does keep all of the cores he was given, that those cores are all replicated. Kazu and Agito are both "King"s, so they should get working cores. Ikki will definitely keep the Rumble Regalia core, so that one definitely has to be replicated and given to the successor of the Over Road's emblem (whoever that's going to be). If Nue still stays stubborn about not using the Thunder Regalia core, they'll probably have to either choose a new Thunder King or give the new core to Blackburn (he didn't retire, exactly, so he might agree to become Thunder King again).

[suarhnir]

oyos

taking the roads and sub-roads aside, the regalia themselves could still be variations of the road types/application. i guess the best example is sleipnir, they were all wind riders but each of their a-t and particular use of the roads varied tremendously. basically what i'm saying is that the regalias will not be exact copies of any other as each will have a unique focus even if it follows the same road. its for that same reason you have people like onibasu and black burn who follow the same road but apparently onibasu doesn't use wires or nina and dontores - where nina has displayed a more optical application of the over road. the reason is simply because each person is different and therefore they'll do things differently, so having different variations of regalia would be logical

[DragonOsman2]

Yeah, and I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that if there are Sub-Roads, and also "branch" Regalia for those Sub-Roads, that they'd each be called something different from what their "parents," if you could refer to them as that, would be called. Those Sub-Roads, while being based on the same principle as their "father" Roads, would still be different. And yeah, of course each Rider on the same Road can't really have the same "run" and/or style, since everyone has his/her own "run" style. I think the Trick Nina used in this chapter was something similar to Arthur's, though. Kazu was trained personally by Spitfire, so his "run" is similar to Spitfire's. Sora was the one who trained Ikki on how to ride the Wing Road, so Ikki's Wing Road Tricks are the same as Sora's.

But really, the Regalia of the main eight Roads that have different applications, aren't the originals. You do realize that, yes? The Regalia that were being used by the members of the old Sleeping Forest were the original Regalia of the of the main eight Roads, and there aren't any others that came from the Tower for those particular Roads. But there are still 16 other Sub-Roads, two each of which are based off of one of the main eight, if this whole theory about 28 Regalia, three being all Pledge Regalia and one being just half of Bagram, with the rest of the 24 all being different Regalia, is true.

Edit: By the way, Orca is the current Fang King, and he doesn't have a slashing Fang; he has an exploding Fang. The Regalia can't be different, though; there must be something Orca himself does that makes his Fang explode. As we were told, the way to produce a Fang is to store 0-100-0 energy by running full speed and then immediately stopping before shooting the Fang; the Fang Regalia's main components are also built for that, since they help the Rider to immediately stop right after having gone full speed. Orca also seemed to run before releasing his Fang. So yeah, he probably does something different on his own to make his explode, since, without those parts that help in braking right after having gone full speed, a Regalia can't be called the Fang Regalia. So Orca's Fang Regalia can't be that different . . . unless of course it has additional parts in it that make the Fang explode upon contact with the target instead of slashing at the target.

[suarhnir]

But really, the Regalia of the main eight Roads that have different applications, aren't the originals. You do realize that, yes? The Regalia that were being used by the members of the old Sleeping Forest were the original Regalia of the of the main eight Roads, and there aren't any others that came from the Tower for those particular Roads. But there are still 16 other Sub-Roads, two each of which are based off of one of the main eight, if this whole theory about 28 Regalia, three being all Pledge Regalia and one being just half of Bagram, with the rest of the 24 all being different Regalia, is true.

oyos

calling the other regalia 'not' originals is like going into a library, picking a random genre/section and calling all books and stories that came after one in particular as a replica. the other regalias are not replicas and not really 'not' of the originals. everyone outside of sf back then made their own story of about the 8 'kings' and 'roads'. even the grav kids themselves didn't regard their 'regalias' as regalias or proof of being a king or to being called a 'king' until after everyone else did... its what everyone else made up.

the 8 kings and regalia are not really a true original in that all the other recently introduced roads and regalia of the other grav kids in the 1st gen are replicas or of sub-level. the 'original' 8 kings and regalia, are more accurately the 1st publicly known gathered team which coincidently had a person from each main road with a few extra ring road riders forming ttt. the other grav kids and their regalia, if they kept them, kept out of the spotlight and so no one knew there were others and could even try to speculate that there were more than just the 8.

(break is over - gotta get back to work)

[DragonOsman2]

I know all that. But the Second Generation of Gravity Children weren't given ATs that later came to be known as Regalia, were they? That was just the First Generation, those 28 Gravity Children, of which, 8 had the main "Regalia" while the 16 others (who weren't Nike or Ring Road Riders), had ones that branched off of the main eight. The Takeuchi Brothers both shared one half of Bagram each, until Sora took the other half from Nike and formed Sleeping Forest, while Nike himself started to spend most of his time in the US. Then Nike came back and fought Kilik after he'd fought the other members of Sleeping Forest and was exhausted, and took the Gem Regalia core from him.

There were 28 Gravity Children, but 27 and a half Regalia, 3 of which were most likely Pledge Regalia replicas. I'm only saying that if there are main eight "Regalia" and main eight "Roads," then there also 16 other separate ones that branch of them, that have concepts that are similar to their "fathers," but are still different in a way, like the Horn Regalia and the Fang Regalia (if the Horn Regalia is one of those 16). Also, Dr. Minami did say that Sora "ate" the other First Gen. Gravity Children who didn't come back to using ATs (most likely meaning he and Nike killed them all). He probably has their Regalia stashed away somewhere, too.

And by "originals," I only mean the ones that the 28 First Gen. Gravity Children had while they were in the Tower.

[suarhnir]

oyos

by the time that the second generation of gravity children were being made, they had shifted to having some financial backing with a rogue u.s. military faction. the leader, big willie or whatever his name was, had no interest in the regalia a-ts, he was interested in more military applicable technology like the exo-suits and grav kid soldiers. also, from minami's pov, it would be pointless to make another regalia if the new grav kids don't have what it takes to rise up to the needed level to truly utilize it (especially since they instated the 'failures are disposed of' rule), not to mention the desire to even do a-ts actively (given that majority of the previous grav kids were eager to leave the a-t stuff behind after escaping; wouldn't want a repeat of grav kids running off with crucial technology now).

here's something else i just remembered, back in the flashback when we actually see the 1st gen grav kids make their escape, we really only see a handful of them scaling the walls of the tower (looking at that chapter, i can easily make out 9 figures) but o!g may have failed in consistency if he is now saying that more than 9 escaped the tower. however, if more than 9 but less than 28 grav kids escaped: what if in general testing, sora had 'accidently' killed off some fellow grav kids? naturally the researchers would collect the regalia from the grav kid and either trash the regalia thinking that it was useless if even a grav kid couldn't make it useful enough, or re-design/combine the core. that would certainly bring down the number of regalia from the 1st gen down a bit.

you support the idea that only one core was shared between sora and nike, but i view it as they each had their own core and at least to the point of chasing gazelle, they each shared theirs so each had two cores which happened to also be put on one a-t shoe. sometime after that, if nike didn't lose his or get it destroyed, they could have had minami combine the two cores (both based on wind road) to create bagram. it would semi fit in with the flashback that sora told in which a guy gave him the regalia and wrote 'welcome to nightmare' on the wheels (which is how it was when reuniting with kiric to form sf). it also fits with the lack of regalia that nike had until claiming the gem regalia despite clearly having one years earlier when going after gazelle, along with how the activated look of the regalia when sora and nike did their combo compared to what it had looked like during sora's use of bagram now and 6 years ago. this could possibly be the result of pledge regalia that we know of now too; rune and simca gave theirs to ine who combined the cores to make the pledge regalia cross... its not like the core is only wheels, the thunder regalia core is by no means a wheel.

as for which road was the true main road and which is the sub, there's genuinely no way to know that unless minami decides to spell it out for us. for all we know, all the kings we do know of are actually sub roads but since the first formation of sf, people ended up assuming that their roads were the main ones. its really in the air (o!g likely didn't think that through very well). though i do remember a discussion before that we had first believed the sub roads to be fusion roads, like orca and whatever bloody-like road & nike and the jade road. i don't remember when that discussion was first brought up but it was one of the ideas tossed around for what the sub roads really were.

tangenting off of nike, the whole 'shadow' thing was actually to be taken as 'partner that acted on behalf of sora but did so discreetly'. not quite the same as the shadow aka avatar representing the king and road. it could also mean that he was the 'inferior' one between him and sora.

[DragonOsman2]

I understand that Nike being Sora's "shadow" means that he was the "inferior" one. I had no intention of even implying the Road "shadow" thing.

As for the Sub-Roads vs. Main Road, Sora and the other Gravity Children obviously knew which ones were the main ones, so of course they wouldn't exactly make the "Kings" that were of the Sub-Roads get into forming Sleeping Forest. Any Gravity Child can use any of the Regalia, as well, so if any Regalia other than the eight that were being used by the members of old Sleeping Forest were to have been the main one(s), then Spitfire and the others would've used those Regalia instead.

Gazelle was Dr. Minami masterpiece at that time and she was the first Thorn Queen. So we at least know for sure, even going by your fears, that the Sonia Road is definitely one of the eight main Roads.

But anyway, I do hope we get to find out more about the whole main Road and Sub-Road thing (if it really is true; part of me still believes that there could have been Eight different Regalia, with the rest of them being just replicas of the Eight).

[bbms]

I think it was said at the manga that time that just the orirginal Sleeping Forest wanted to ride air trecks, most of them run away from the country and something like that.

[DragonOsman2]

Yeah, I remember that, too, actually. It was stated by Kilik that since most of the First Gen. Gravity Children didn't even want to remember the time spent in "the bottom of a well," which was what the "Tower" felt like to them, they never went back to using ATs again after leaving the "Tower". But I'm thinking that the ones who didn't go back to using ATs were the ones who were later killed by Sora. He must also have taken their ATs (or in other words, their Regalia). The "Pyon" girl, and Vercingetorx (aka Orca) are part of the First Generation, though, I think. The successful ones. Alexander was probably one as well, though right now he's a Flame Road Rider, even though the Flame Road was Spitfire's while they were in the "Tower". Alexander must have had one of the Sub-Roads.

By the way, Suahnir, about the Rising Road, I think there's a chance that Onibasu is using those bandages in place of wires. Those bandages are probably made of material that can be used as a good conductor, and like the wires used by Nue and Blackburn, can also be bent and coiled.

Do recall, as well, that we've seen with Blackburn's and Nue's use of the Rising Road that wires or anything else to direct the electricity isn't required when using Alpha Brain-waves to cause hallucinations, which is what Onibasu was doing when he was pretending to be Kilic, and also making everyone think that the rest of Sleeping Forest was already defeated, while in reality they were all hiding through the use of an Over Road Trick, courtesy of Nina.

[suarhnir]

As for the Sub-Roads vs. Main Road, Sora and the other Gravity Children obviously knew which ones were the main ones, so of course they wouldn't exactly make the "Kings" that were of the Sub-Roads get into forming Sleeping Forest. Any Gravity Child can use any of the Regalia, as well, so if any Regalia other than the eight that were being used by the members of old Sleeping Forest were to have been the main one(s), then Spitfire and the others would've used those Regalia instead.

oyos

the grav kids and minami may know which is the true main road and which is the sub road, but most of the roads have not been explained enough for us to know which is which. honestly, i don't recall anywhere in the manga where they state that one road is the main and another a sub-road (we only have that diagram with branching roads, but there's no written chart saying which one is which). the only thing that has been mentioned was sub-regalias which are what you can actually call a real replica since a replica is more often than not, an inferior version of the original - due to the lack of the original core.

going back to the forming of sf, there was no guarantee and completely up to chance as to who they would get to join them. the grav kids never wanted to go back even to the tower because it was the relic of their past that they wanted to leave behind. it was luck that they managed to get a representation of the different roads (with extra tuners) and technically they didn't even have a sonia road rider... sora had to orchestrate rika's rise to thorn queen and then got her to join the team by appealing to her in a more friendly-then-intimate way. if there was a road that wasn't represented, sora may have tried to do something similar or at least made a greater effort in recruiting their fellow grav kids to make sure each road type had a rider.

a rather extreme example but would definitely fit in this situation: if you took one whole platoon of soldiers that went to vietnam from the u.s., and that group had equal representation of different ethnicities, and then asked them to go back again to fight in vietnam - how successful would you be in getting people to volunteer to do so? on top of that, what are the chances that you'll have at least one of each ethnicity represented? in reality: very slim. the grav kids wanted to live normal lives and so only a couple came back at all (and the ones who did were the 'failures'; a common trait of people who have been labeled as 'failures' that are given a chance to make a difference, will be more inclined to join even if they do hate it - if for anything, to prove themselves to be worth something, however little it may be). sf (at least with kiric) wasn't going to reject a grav kid that came back to help if they happened to be the same road as another... it was a team formed to guard the sky regalia (as they were initially told when asked to join) and there would be no point in declining man power over an issue of what road they ride.

i imagine that kiric had pleaded with om, gabi, nina and onibasu into helping him when he made a stand against sora and the rest of sf, probably using the reports and evidence compiled by kaito as more reason for them to help. obviously we have one uncommon road among them (om's lather road, still not sure which one this could fall under), and we still have no flame road rider among current sf either. each grav kid left the tower with their regalia, and those who came back to join 1st sf still had theirs (though simca and rune's is up to debate) - it wasn't like they left the regalia in the tower and just picked them up again. so again, it was chance that they had each road represented and regalia to go with it.

[DragonOsman2]

Yeah, I guess I forgot about the Gravity Children taking their Regalia with them while leaving the Tower.

But still, the fact that Gazelle, a Gravity Child Dr. Minami considered his masterpiece from that time, was the one in possession of the Thorn Regalia before it was given to Rika. I really don't think Dr. Minami would give a Sub-Road's Regalia to a masterpiece creation of his.

And there are the Wing Road and Flame Road; of the former, we know that it's the most important one, since all of the Roads rely on the air and the Wing Road uses the air directly to produce and manipulate the wind, and we also know that it's the one closest to the sky; then, in the Flame Road, the "Flames" are the "template" of each Road's "run". The special ability of the Flame Regalia is also a pretty important concept to think about in this--I seriously doubt that a Sub-Road's Regalia would have such an ability.

Now, the remaining ones in question, I guess you could say, are the Rising Road, Over Road, Gaia Road, and Bloody Road, since the Ring Road shouldn't really be in question seeing as there were three Gravity Children of the First Generation on the Ring Road. There aren't any Sub-Roads in that particular category. That is, of course, if I'm right about there being 24 different Regalia, if which 3 were copies of the same one and 1 was actually split between two people (Pledge Regalia and Wind Regalia, respectively). There were 28 Gravity Children amongst the First Generation, originally.

As for the Lather Road, there is still the possibility that it's a Sub-Road of the Flame Road. Om was one of the First Generation Gravity Children, though I guess we need to first wait to find out if she's still using the same Regalia that she had while in the "Tower" before we say anything on this for sure. She could be using a different Regalia than the one she had while in the "Tower" for all we know, and it could also be a Regalia without a core. It could also be that the Water Regalia is one of those 24 that came from the "Tower," and if it is, then Om may or may not be using its core.

I also have something more to say about Mikan's Gale Road. Look at what Kilik is saying in this page: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c265/15.html--he calls Mikan a Wing Road Rider, doesn't he? I don't know about you, but to me, this means that the Gale Road is just an altered Wing Road. Its Regalia should therefore be a core-less Wind Regalia. And most likely, it is. If Mikan's Road were to be a Sub-Road of the Wing Road, then Kilik wouldn't have called her a Wing Road Rider. And, since that page saying "Wind Rider" would probably leave a bit of doubt, I've also got this: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c265/16.html; it says that in the Wing Road, you have to manipulate the wind yourself in order to use it, or something along those lines. The fact that the Gale Road works very much like the Wing Road, just being more on the aggressive side, to me, means that it's nothing more than an altered Wing Road, and that its Regalia would therefore be a core-less Wind Regalia in current Sleeping Forest, not a Sub-Road and Regalia of the Wing Road.

Now, I've said this before, but still . . . in case anyone's wondering why the failures, which were what everyone besides Kilik and Gazelle were, out of the Gravity Children in old Sleeping Forest got the main Roads' Regalia . . . weren't the Gravity Children given their ATs from the get-go, probably, as part of the experiments? They couldn't have known already, when they gave them the Regalia, that they'd be failures.

Edit: Look at this pic: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v31/c297/11.html; That's all of Bagram; look closely. Isn't it split between Nike's and Sora's ATs? Before the formation of Sleeping Forest, neither of those two had the complete Bagram, they each only had half.

[suarhnir]

But still, the fact that Gazelle, a Gravity Child Dr. Minami considered his masterpiece from that time, was the one in possession of the Thorn Regalia before it was given to Rika. I really don't think Dr. Minami would give a Sub-Road's Regalia to a masterpiece creation of his.

Now, the remaining ones in question, I guess you could say, are the Rising Road, Over Road, Gaia Road, and Bloody Road, since the Ring Road shouldn't really be in question seeing as there were three Gravity Children of the First Generation on the Ring Road. There aren't any Sub-Roads in that particular category. That is, of course, if I'm right about there being 24 different Regalia, if which 3 were copies of the same one and 1 was actually split between two people (Pledge Regalia and Wind Regalia, respectively). There were 28 Gravity Children amongst the First Generation, originally.

I also have something more to say about Mikan's Gale Road. Look at what Kilik is saying in this page: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c265/15.html--he calls Mikan a Wing Road Rider, doesn't he? I don't know about you, but to me, this means that the Gale Road is just an altered Wing Road. Its Regalia should therefore be a core-less Wind Regalia. And most likely, it is. If Mikan's Road were to be a Sub-Road of the Wing Road, then Kilik wouldn't have called her a Wing Road Rider. And, since that page saying "Wind Rider" would probably leave a bit of doubt, I've also got this: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c265/16.html; it says that in the Wing Road, you have to manipulate the wind yourself in order to use it, or something along those lines. The fact that the Gale Road works very much like the Wing Road, just being more on the aggressive side, to me, means that it's nothing more than an altered Wing Road, and that its Regalia would therefore be a core-less Wind Regalia in current Sleeping Forest, not a Sub-Road and Regalia of the Wing Road.

Now, I've said this before, but still . . . in case anyone's wondering why the failures, which were what everyone besides Kilik and Gazelle were, out of the Gravity Children in old Sleeping Forest got the main Roads' Regalia . . . weren't the Gravity Children given their ATs from the get-go, probably, as part of the experiments? They couldn't have known already, when they gave them the Regalia, that they'd be failures.

oyos

a good point on gazelle, but what if there was really only one sonia road rider among the first generation? it was very obvious with sora going after gazelle because she was a brain charger and because of the regalia but he was not bothered by the fact that she killed herself simply because the 'brain charger' could be done to anyone (as they knew of rika being a back-up). so assuming that they were slightly more interested in claiming the regalia, could it be possible that the thorn regalia was the only one of its road among the first gen? i mean, if they did get the other grav kids and one of them had a thorn regalia or variant of the thorn regalia, wouldn't it not be such a big deal that they don't have the gazelle's regalia? in the aftermath of the split between sf, rika had her regalia stolen (by whom we now know was sora/nike and minami). that's a lot of effort in trying to keep the regalia if there's replicas or variants for it, so i can only imagine that it is the only one of its road.

the part with mikan and being called a wind rider isn't that much in my books. technically, sora rides the 'wing' road (as it was initially called) and mikan rides the gale road, but both are part of the wind based road set. saying 'wing' makes it sound more like its a means of travelling and when sora first explained the concept of grasping the wind, he described that it would enable ikki to use all the possible paths available due to currents and air density/temperature. gale definitely has a more aggressive meaning and with mikan's personality, it fits very well. going on that, we do have three road types that have different roads actually named so far.

flame king: flame, apollon
wind king: wing, gale
gem king: gaia, jade

flame should be an instant give in on which is the main road, along with the ring road possibly (at least, we haven't heard of kanon calling his particular use of sound tricks as a different road), maybe the gaia road and finally the sonia road if it turns out that there was only one regalia made. the rest are still iffy in my opinion due to the lack of any substantial evidence of seeing any other roads of the same type being shown so far. oh by the way, there were only 2 confirmed grav kids in the 1st gen that were ring road riders... ine was not a grav kid; she was a genius and daughter of one of the key researchers for a-t and grav kids.

if grav kids and a-t technology started at the same time, then it's possible that the very first set of a-ts they received were not quite regalia quality. unless they were really skilled and managed to fine tune the kinks before the kids were old enough to use them (which i doubt because i don't think there was a athletically skilled enough person on the research team to really utilize and test out the a-ts in a way that the grav kids could have). so as they test more and improve the a-ts, they eventually got to the point of making the regalias, and so there was some consideration as to who got what regalia but i think that reasoning was based merely on the particular way the used their road type more than who was a failure and who wasn't (kiric was shown to be rather young when standing up for his fellow grav kids from being disposed if a failure, so if they stopped worrying about that then they'd take other things into consideration). of course that is going with the notion that majority of the regalias were not replicas in anyway (each regalia unique in its functions though some sharing the same 'base' with one or two others). it also leaves it open that the old sf members may have ended up with a main road regalia but its not certain with what has been explained by o!g. if any of the old sf members had a main road, then for sure, we have ring, flame, gaia and sonia roads along with each respective regalia.

[DragonOsman2]

On the Sonia Road, it probably did have Sub-Roads; didn't you say before that you counted 24 different Regalia in that diagram? The Sonia Road should have two Sub-Roads then, with the Ring Road being repeated three times. And by the way, FYI, I never said that Ine was a Gravity Child. I was saying that the three Gravity Children on the Ring Road, from the First Generation, were most likely Simca, Rune, and that dark-skinned girl that Kanon fought on the aircraft carrier--I never even once said that Ine was a Gravity Child. We all know Ine's a normal human.

And each Regalia was only one of its kind in the "Tower," except for those of the Wing and Ring Roads (the Sub-Roads have the concept as their "parent" Roads, but they're still separate Roads in a way); for the former, there were only Sora and Nike, and we know that's a special case, and for the latter, there are three Riders since it has no Sub-Roads (if I'm right).

And about the Flame Road and the Apollon Road, like I said before, the Apollon Road isn't a variant, nor is it a Sub-Road--it's a technique that is part of the Flame Road. The Trick St. Elmo's Crossfire was used on Nue by that Loli-girl from Aeon's mansion's battle-maid group as one of Spitfire's Tricks. The only reason, most likely, that Spitfire needed Aeon's help in using that Trick against Nike, was because he'd gotten his tendons torn in the battle between the old Sleeping Forest and Kilik (I remember Sora or Nike saying something like that). So yeah, Avalon Road and Apollon Road, as well as "Time," and the Trick "St. Elmo's Crossfire," are all part of the Flame Road itself, and if Spitfire wasn't injured in his legs, he could've used the "St. Elmo's Crossfire" Trick by himself against Nike. Didn't we see him manipulating "Time," as well? And we've also seen Kazu doing it. In his video file that he trained Kazu through, Spitfire did also say himself that "Time" is classified as part of the Flame Road. Did you forget?

As for the Gem King's Road, it's really just the Gaia Road; recall that the Jade Road is a combination between two Roads: Wing and Gaia.

And the Wing Road does have destructive attacks, doesn't it? Pile Tornado and the Trick "Moonstruck Numberless Grappler" come to mind. It's not just a means of traveling, it's just called the Wing Road because, since it's the one closest the sky, it's made for allowing its Rider to truly fly. Also look at the Sleipnir members' use of the Wing Road, especially Loki and Freya. It's a bit more similar to Sora's and Ikki's use of the Wing Road than the rest of Sleipnir.

[suarhnir]

On the Sonia Road, it probably did have Sub-Roads; didn't you say before that you counted 24 different Regalia in that diagram? The Sonia Road should have two Sub-Roads then, with the Ring Road being repeated three times. And by the way, FYI, I never said that Ine was a Gravity Child. I was saying that the three Gravity Children on the Ring Road, from the First Generation, were most likely Simca, Rune, and that dark-skinned girl that Kanon fought on the aircraft carrier--I never even once said that Ine was a Gravity Child. We all know Ine's a normal human.

oyos

i only mentioned that because you said this:


Now, the remaining ones in question, I guess you could say, are the Rising Road, Over Road, Gaia Road, and Bloody Road, since the Ring Road shouldn't really be in question seeing as there were three Gravity Children of the First Generation on the Ring Road.


And about the Flame Road and the Apollon Road, like I said before, the Apollon Road isn't a variant, nor is a Sub-Road--it's a technique that is part of the Flame Road. The Trick St. Elmo's Crossfire is used by that Loli-girl from Aeon's mansion's battle-maid group as one of Spitfire's Tricks.

there's no point of actually calling it a different road name then... it's the same with the hurricane road and gale road... you have ikki (and probably mikan) using the same tricks as sora because they are part of the same type of road but again it is a different application.


As for the Gem King's Road, it's really just the Gaia Road; recall that the Jade Road is a combination between two Roads: Wing and Gaia.

i'm aware that it is a fusion road but it still has a connection to the gaia road... it's an unusual branch road because it's pulling from another one. basically, you have a new road that branched into another one. (at this point we've broken the mold of the 24 roads diagram)


And the Wing Road does have destructive attacks, doesn't it? Pile Tornado and the Trick "Moonstruck Numberless Grappler" come to mind. It's not just a means of traveling, it's just called the Wing Road because, since it's the one closest the sky, it's made for allowing its Rider to truly fly. Also look at the Sleipnir members' use of the Wing Road, especially Loki and Freya. It's a bit more similar to Sora's and Ikki's use of the Wing Road than the rest of Sleipnir.

technically they were only regarded as wind kings. neither am i saying that wing is only for 'travelling'. what i'm saying is that 'wing' is not wind like flame and so we can't instantly assume that the wing road is the main one and gale is not. plus, i was more trying to point out that regardless the road, between the roads there is a single title which is centered, in my opinion, the road types like wind, flame, etc.

[DragonOsman2]

When I said that bit about the three First Generation Gravity Children on the Ring Road, since I had also mentioned that dark-skinned girl Kanon fought plenty of times already, I was assuming you'd know to think I was thinking of her as one of them.

Spitfire and Aeon called them the Apollon Road and the Avalon Road, but notice that they are still Spitfire's own techniques and Tricks (not to mention that Aeon is also technically a Flame Road Rider; it's just that his "run" focuses more on the "Time" aspect of the Flame Road). That All-Purpose Regalia Prototype wouldn't have the Trick "St. Elmo's Crossfire" as one of Spitfire's own exclusive Tricks otherwise (Here, look at these pages: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v29/c273/12.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v29/c273/13.html, and http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v29/c273/14.html; see that? It's Sptfire's "run" and Spitfire's Trick; both lines that make up the "cross" are also burning, no? "Flames".). And I'm not making it up when I say that Spitfire told Kazu that "Time" is classified as part of the Flame Road. The scene with Spitfire saying that to him is shown in a flashback during Ikk's and Kazu's fight in that religious seminar, since that's when we first saw Kazu use the "Time" Tricks.

Also, you said that the mold of the 24 Regalia had been broken. It hasn't, yet. There are still 24 original Regalia. We just have some extra Roads added for some of the Regalia.

And about the Hurricane Road, it's going to be the 9th main Road, and its Regalia will be the 9th main Regalia. But since it's an additional Regalia, you could say it'll be the 25th Regalia. It's not like the Hurricane Road is one of the Roads of the Wind King. It's the Storm King's Road.

Before now, the Hurricane Road was a fusion between the Wing Road and the Over Road, but Over Road Tricks can't be used without either the Rumble Regalia or at least something with some kind of a ramjet engine in it (look at Shallot's ATs). That's the main reason why all of Ikki's Wind Tricks are Wing Road Tricks, and only the "Null Wind" Trick is an actual Hurricane Road Trick (in that, he did something to create a make-shift "ramjet engine," since he didn't have one on him (Agito's and Kazu's Trick, and Buccha's "reflective wave," along with Ikki's own mega wind for the Wing Road, to combine that with the Over Road's ramjet engine windmill principle and created a giant storm to swallow up all of the wind)). Now, though, it's getting additional Roads combined into it. Part of me is still hoping that after the battle against Sora, Ikki gives back all of the cores that are being fused into his Regalia, keeping only the Bagram replica Kururu made, along with the Rumble Regalia core, and maybe the Thunder Regalia core. The cores he keeps will of course have to be replicated. If he gives the Flame core and Fang core back to Kazu and Agito, respectively, I'll be happy, but if he keeps those, then I'll only be satisfied if it's revealed or implied that those cores will be replicated to be given to Kazu and Agito. Those two are still "Kings," they need the cores. The Rumble core and the Thunder core have to replicated as well. They need to choose a new Rumble King, and if Nue still refuses to use the core to his Regalia, even once it's been replicated (this time will be the second time, if it's replicated), then they could either give the new core to Blackburn or choose another Thunder King. Blackburn is still actively riding on the Rising Road, he hasn't retired, so he could still go back to being Thunder King.

Edit: Now, going back to the Wing Road being the most important one of the eight main Roads and all; first, look at these pages: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v12/c102/13.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v12/c102/14.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v12/c102/15.html, and http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v12/c102/16.html. There you go. The Wing Road is the one closest to the sky, and is also the most important Road, mainly because of the way ATs themselves mainly function and also because every Road and Regalia relies on the air/wind for all of its functions and Tricks. We need confirmation from Minami, but right now, everything points to the Wing Road being one of the eight main Roads as the most important one, being that it's closest Road to the sky, and also because it directly uses the air to produce and manipulate the wind. We've seen Ikki using the wind to to give himself a speed boost, with just his bare hands and without ATs, while they were in Tower and talking about the truth of the Sky Regalia, Sora, and the old Sleeping Forest team's past (in the gravity chamber, while it was in a 0G environment). Wing Road Riders may need ATs for some things, but they can still generally do a whole lot of stuff with the wind with just their bare hands. Sora said that the Wing Road is different from the others, right?

[suarhnir]

When I said that bit about the three First Generation Gravity Children on the Ring Road, since I had also mentioned that dark-skinned girl Kanon fought plenty of times already, I was assuming you'd know to think I was thinking of her as one of them.

oyos

none of the grav kids with genesis (not including sora, nike, simca and formerly spitfire) were part of the 1st generation. you can't take age into account either because you have a span from grav kids as old or older than mikan - who is definitely a 2nd gen - and ones as young as ume and nue's team of kids. besides, if minami says that the other 1st gen were 'eaten' by sora, i don't think that they'd still be around so the grav kids in genesis like merlin (dark skinned ring road rider) isn't part of the 1st gen. that we know of, there are only 2 confirmed grav kids in 1st gen that are ring road which are simca and rune.



Spitfire and Aeon called them the Apollon Road and the Avalon Road, but notice that they are still Spitfire's own techniques and Tricks (not to mention that Aeon is also technically a Flame Road Rider; it's just that his "run" focuses more on the "Time" aspect of the Flame Road). That All-Purpose Regalia Prototype wouldn't have the Trick "St. Elmo's Crossfire" as one of Spitfire's own exclusive Tricks otherwise (Here, look at these pages: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v29/c273/12.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v29/c273/13.html, and http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v29/c273/14.html; see that? It's Sptfire's "run" and Spitfire's Trick; both lines that make up the "cross" are also burning, no? "Flames".). And I'm not making it up when I say that Spitfire told Kazu that "Time" is classified as part of the Flame Road. The scene with Spitfire saying that to him is shown in a flashback during Ikk's and Kazu's fight in that religious seminar, since that's when we first saw Kazu use the "Time" Tricks.

avalon was a mistranslation on another scanlation team's part. they didn't see the better scans and realized that it was actually supposed to be 'apollon' (to make 'po' in japanese, you add a little circle next to 'ho' but to make 'bo' you add 2 tick marks). you use the example of the flame road and time tricks but if you go by that reasoning, there's no point in saying that ikki's pile tornado or that huge hurricane causing kick or wind bubble explosion are part of the hurricane road and he really should just go back to being called the wind king of the wing road. that's what i'm pointing out with the apollon road - apollon and flame are part of the same type of roads which for the most part we are identifying as the flame road branch (main branch) so of course they can share tricks. its exactly the same with the hurricane and wing roads and the sharing of tricks between them (there's also that one wind/brute strength repelling ability that ikki used to keep the wires off of him but in earlier chapters we see mikan do the same thing so there's a cross of tricks between hurrican and gale). i'm sure that if agito tried, he could pull of a piercing laser-esque fang like how gabishi does and vice versa.


Also, you said that the mold of the 24 Regalia had been broken. It hasn't, yet. There are still 24 original Regalia. We just have some extra Roads added for some of the Regalia.

i never said that we've broken the mold of 24 regalia... i said we've broken the mold of 24 roads (8 main and 16 sub). i wasn't even including the regalias in that statement.


And about the Hurricane Road, it's going to be the 9th main Road, and its Regalia will be the 9th main Regalia. But since it's an additional Regalia, you could say it'll be the 25th Regalia. It's not like the Hurricane Road is one of the Roads of the Wind King. It's the Storm King's Road.

you are contradicting your stance on what defines a different road... you claim that time tricks are part of the flame road and not its own road but then you say that despite that all the tricks that ikki has been using are pretty much tricks from the wing road, he still has his own road. you can't say it works one way for one example and a different way in another example. tricks can be shared between same types of roads but the roads can still be different - that's my stance.


Before now, the Hurricane Road was a fusion between the Wing Road and the Over Road, but Over Road Tricks can't be used without either the Rumble Regalia or at least something with some kind of a ramjet engine in it (look at Shallot's ATs). That's the main reason why all of Ikki's Wind Tricks are Wing Road Tricks, and only the "Null Wind" Trick is an actual Hurricane Road Trick (in that, he did something to create a make-shift "ramjet engine," since he didn't have one on him (Agito's and Kazu's Trick, and Buccha's "reflective wave," along with Ikki's own mega wind for the Wing Road, to combine that with the Over Road's ramjet engine windmill principle and created a giant storm to swallow up all of the wind)). Now, though, it's getting additional Roads combined into it. Part of me is still hoping that after the battle against Sora, Ikki gives back all of the cores that are being fused into his Regalia, keeping only the Bagram replica Kururu made, along with the Rumble Regalia core, and maybe the Thunder Regalia core. The cores he keeps will of course have to be replicated. If he gives the Flame core and Fang core back to Kazu and Agito, respectively, I'll be happy, but if he keeps those, then I'll only be satisfied if it's revealed or implied that those cores will be replicated to be given to Kazu and Agito. Those two are still "Kings," they need the cores. The Rumble core and the Thunder core have to replicated as well. They need to choose a new Rumble King, and if Nue still refuses to use the core to his Regalia, even once it's been replicated (this time will be the second time, if it's replicated), then they could either give the new core to Blackburn or choose another Thunder King. Blackburn is still actively riding on the Rising Road, he hasn't retired, so he could still go back to being Thunder King.

if you want to go off of what the old little man said about ikki's road

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v19/c169/13.html

in other words, the wing road is too 'constricting' for ikki's style so they need something more 'expansive' but in no way was a completely new and original road. the hurricane road is still technically branched from the wing road and the only reason they were regarding it as the 9th road was because a 9th regalia was eventually going to be made (since there was only 8 in the present time). they didn't know at the time that they'd end up combining quite a few cores (since kururu was originally aiming to make one entirely from scratch).


Edit: Now, going back to the Wing Road being the most important one of the eight main Roads and all; first, look at these pages: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v12/c102/13.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v12/c102/14.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v12/c102/15.html, and http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v12/c102/16.html. There you go. The Wing Road is the one closest to the sky, and is also the most important Road, mainly because of the way ATs themselves mainly function and also because every Road and Regalia relies on the air/wind for all of its functions and Tricks. We need confirmation from Minami, but right now, everything points to the Wing Road being one of the eight main Roads as the most important one, being that it's closest Road to the sky, and also because it directly uses the air to produce and manipulate the wind. We've seen Ikki using the wind to to give himself a speed boost, with just his bare hands and without ATs, while they were in Tower and talking about the truth of the Sky Regalia, Sora, and the old Sleeping Forest team's past (in the gravity chamber, while it was in a 0G environment). Wing Road Riders may need ATs for some things, but they can still generally do a whole lot of stuff with the wind with just their bare hands. Sora said that the Wing Road is different from the others, right?

another mistranslation... the original japanese script actually translated to "every king's infinite atmosphere uses the sky" 王の持つ最終奥技は全て「空」を使う. I would also like to point out another o!g consistency fail, in how they made it sound like there were only 8 back then but now he's having key characters that supposedly know better (minami) saying otherwise. either everyone else really didn't know and the grav kids weren't telling, or o!g fails. i like to think o!g fails because it seems to be a common thing with him. the last page (16) you refer to is also saying 'sky' instead of wind so the whole wing isn't as key of a road as you believe it to be. however, yoshitsune does at least regard the wing/wind road to be the pivotal one among the 8. since yoshi is a smart guy and can deduce this without being told, we are certain that the wing road is definitely a key road but in yoshi's logic, it is simply because the wing road is the 'simplest yet expansive' form of manipulating the sky/atmosphere. as for what sora said the wing road being different from the other roads... i think he means that out of all the roads, its the one that doesn't need the regalia or a-ts at all to use... now we've seen rika pull some sonia road tricks without a-ts but those weren't true thorn tricks, just the movements that are used for a sonia road rider and all stuff internal, and the ring road is constantly active for tuners but its an input only in that constant active mode. the wind tricks have the most expansive array of tricks that can be done without aid of anything else like a-ts. in that regard, yes, the wing road or at least wind tricks are definitely on their own playing field in regards to when and how it can be used.

random tid bit:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v13/c105/14.html
little did we know just how accurate ine was in describing the ring road being the one to 'give birth' to the ultimate regalia (the equipment ume used to practically connect all the kings so they could use the sky regalia; i guess the secondary function of the pledge regalia was to do just that)

last thing, since kiric has also confirmed it, none of current sf have real regalias. i always want to wait until 2 or 3 'reliable' characters state the same thing before believing it to be true. i do wonder what nina, gabi, om and onibasu have done with their regalia... did they toss them? or are they simply not using them in keeping with their standards?

[DragonOsman2]

Remember what Nue said about Ikki's Wind Tricks? That they're all bad copies, right? Nue said that the only reason Ikki was able to become a "King" in such a short time was because Sora taught him Tricks. The Pile Tornado is Sora's own Trick, he taught it to Ikki. The hurricane-causing you mentioned, if it's the "Null Wind" Trick, is Wing Road + Over Road, it's not just the Wing Road. And the Trick he did to get out of Nue's wires i their Dash match; according to Falco, that's one of the most fundamental basics in AT, the Trick Ikki did there. It's not really a Wind Trick, though he did seem to make it into a Wind Trick when he put his hands behind and use wind to propel himself forward (unless I'm mistaken, that's what he did). But the rest of what he did to get out of the wires, as Falco said, is one of the most fundamental basics in AT--all he did go full speed, charging at the wires, then pull the brakes before using the rebounding energy to jump off and escape. But, the situation in which he did it is what made it a big deal and even got Nue to give Ikki the Thunder Regalia core. That situation was one in which Ikki could've lost his life if he'd even one wrong move; the only other two people who can the same thing in that kind of situation, as far as Falco knows, are Kilik and Sora.

Also, Ine seems to know that "Pyon" girl, and when Sora mentioned the "successful" and "failed" First Gen. Gravity Children, she was, IIRC, the very first Gravity Child to be shown. Ogure showed her just as Sora was talking, actually. This tells me that she actually is a First Gen. Gravity Child. But yeah, if Merlin isn't part of the First Generation, then right now we only know of two Ring Road Riders from the First Generation. But maybe the third one died, then? If there where 24 Regalia but 28 Gravity Children, then besides Nike, there must have been one other "extra" person.

And, okay, I stand corrected about the "sky" versus "air/wind" bit, but do notice how all of Roads seem to rely on the air? Isn't "Infinity Atmosphere" also the way a Road uses the air?

And I'm aware that Wing Road Riders can use the wind without ATs--I already said that.

And as for the Flame Road vs. Apollon Road, and Hurricane Road vs. Wing Road. On the former, I was thinking that since the Apollon Road and "St. Elmo's Crossfire" are listed an that All-Purpose Regalia Prototype's database as Spitfire's own Road and Trick, that it's a Flame Road Trick. Spitfire said that "Time" is classified as part of the Flame Road because it makes the opponent feel a burning sensation. Spitfire used fire more than the "Time" Tricks, and Aeon did the opposite of that, by relying mainly on "Time". But they're both Flame Road Riders, and Aeon did use the Flame Regalia for a while before giving it to Kazu. If the Apollon Road is a branch Road, it's a branch Road of the Flame King, since it can be used with the Flame Regalia. If it were of a branch Regalia, then it wouldn't be that good when being used with the Flame Regalia. That's what I was getting at. About the Hurricane Road: it was originally an altered Wing Road, I get that. But now look at it. It's now a combination of the Wing Road, Rising Road, Bloody Road, Flame Road, Gaia Road, and Over Road; two Roads shy of the Sky Road, if such a Road does exist. But Ikki is a Wind-user, so the Storm Regalia has to be made such that it powers up his wind. They do refer him a lot as a "wind," and also as "the wind that has become a storm".

As for Ine mentioning the "ultimate" Regalia, I took that as her referring to the Wind Regalia. The Sky Regalia isn't really a Regalia in the sense that other eight main ones and the sixteen branch ones are. It's the software/network that controls all ATs and AT technology in the world, and the Skylink is one part of it. Inorganic Net and the Chronos Image are part of Skylink. And the Flame Regalia allows the wearer to access Skylink and use the Tricks of every Rider in the world, as long as he/she has permission (maybe, with the master codes at the bottom of the "Tower," in that briefcase, one could that function of Skylink without having to ask permission for using the Tricks, and, ultimately, it's most likely also for allowing the Sky King to take full control of the whole AT world). I don't fully understand the bit how gathering all of the Regalia to activate the Sky Regalia works, yet, though.

About the Roads, even if Yoshitsune knew about there having originally been 24 Regalia, since the main eight are the ones that really matter, he probably still wouldn't have mentioned the other sixteen since they're just "child" Roads of the main eight, based on the same concept as the "father" Road, each, but still a bit different. Also, chances are, only Dr. Minami and the Gravity Children knew up until now about the 24 Regalia.

Anyways, yeah, I was already thinking that all of the current Sleeping Forest's Regalia were Regalia without cores. What Kilik said in the recent chapter made my belief more solid. But yeah, I do wonder what Om, Gabishi, Nina, and Onibasu did with their Regalia.

[suarhnir]

And the Trick he did to get out of Nue's wires i their Dash match; according to Falco, that's one of the most fundamental basics in AT, the Trick Ikki did there. It's not really a Wind Trick, though he did seem to make it into a Wind Trick when he put his hands behind and use wind to propel himself forward (unless I'm mistaken, that's what he did). But the rest of what he did to get out of the wires, as Falco said, is one of the most fundamental basics in AT--all he did go full speed, charging at the wires, then pull the brakes before using the rebounding energy to jump off and escape.

oyos

wrong one i meant this one:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v26/c239/12.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v29/c271/4.html

the combination of brute strength and a little bit of full body wind push. whether this is actually a trick or something ikki and mikan just do as an instinctive 'break free' action, i'm not sure but they both do it.


Also, Ine seems to know that "Pyon" girl, and when Sora mentioned the "successful" and "failed" First Gen. Gravity Children, she was, IIRC, the very first Gravity Child to be shown. Ogure showed her just as Sora was talking, actually. This tells me that she actually is a First Gen. Gravity Child. But yeah, if Merlin isn't part of the First Generation, then right now we only know of two Ring Road Riders from the First Generation. But maybe the third one died, then? If there where 24 Regalia but 28 Gravity Children, then besides Nike, there must have been one other "extra" person.

that would be a good point on pyon, but it could have also been that ine knew her because she was helping genesis in the regular capacity of the ttt neutrality. though it might have been a character design recycling on o!g's part, the first time pyon makes an appearance is at the end of the behemoth match when kaito's men come in but then nue disarms all of them then sora comes up with a girl that looks like pyon, some huge masked bulky guy and rika in her wrestling outfit. if pyon was genuinely there, then it might be that pyon was around enough to be seen and introduced to ine. also, i think ine was the masked bondage looking chick with straight hair (there's a scene where ine has her hair down all the way when calling kururu about nue's defeat - she may have been the one to bring in nue but was dressed as that gas mask bondage outfit and was changing back to her normal attire and hairstyle (basically, she's been more involved with genesis than ttt's neutrality should have allowed because later on we see her releasing the captured om and gabi via chauffer). anyways, it is a common plot device of authors to show a connection of someone else entirely when talking about a character or narrator talks about a certain subject - i'm shuffling pyon into the 'probably 1st gen' but merlin and the others are definitely 2nd gen, and this is supported by their constant fear/thinking of being disposed of.


And, okay, I stand corrected about the "sky" versus "air/wind" bit, but do notice how all of Roads seem to rely on the air? Isn't "Infinity Atmosphere" also the way a Road uses the air?

And I'm aware that Wing Road Riders can use the wind without ATs--I already said that.

i was merely pointing out that the reason why sora said the wing road was different was because of it being the only road that can be used without a-ts. that's really the only thing uniquely different that i can think of.


And as for the Flame Road vs. Apollon Road, and Hurricane Road vs. Wing Road. On the former, I was thinking that since the Apollon Road and "St. Elmo's Crossfire" are listed an that All-Purpose Regalia Prototype's database as Spitfire's own Road and Trick, that it's a Flame Road Trick. Spitfire said that "Time" is classified as part of the Flame Road because it makes the opponent feel a burning sensation. Spitfire used fire more than the "Time" Tricks, and Aeon did the opposite of that, by relying mainly on "Time". But they're both Flame Road Riders, and Aeon did use the Flame Regalia for a while before giving it to Kazu. If the Apollon Road is a branch Road, it's a branch Road of the Flame King, since it can be used with the Flame Regalia. If it were of a branch Regalia, then it wouldn't be that good when being used with the Flame Regalia. That's what I was getting at. About the Hurricane Road: it was originally an altered Wing Road, I get that. But now look at it. It's now a combination of the Wing Road, Rising Road, Bloody Road, Flame Road, Gaia Road, and Over Road; two Roads shy of the Sky Road, if such a Road does exist. But Ikki is a Wind-user, so the Storm Regalia has to be made such that it powers up his wind. They do refer him a lot as a "wind," and also as "the wind that has become a storm".

when you have a branch road that is of the same type as the main, then you can use the same type of regalia. since time is a branch of flame, then of course you can use the flame regalia to use time tricks. i imagine that you could use storm tricks with bagram as well.

i guess i need another example to explain this: musical instruments... different families of instruments will be the types of roads. we shall have woodwind instruments as the wind type road - the wing road shall be clarinets, the gale road shall be oboes and the hurricane will be the flute. they are still all part of the same family/road type, but they have varying unique abilities(sounds) and since the hurricane is the most different of that road type they have the most different instrument type from the other 2 (clarinet is a single reed instrument, oboe is double reed, flutes don't use reeds). they are all based on the same requirement though, which is air flow into a sharp edge or reed (hence the name wood wind) and the main body to manipulate notes is very similar across the 3 instruments (which we can liken to the tricks) - it is possible to mix them up; use the body of the flute with a clarinet mouthpiece and you will be able to still play music (it'd pretty much be a saxophone at that point).

the flame type will be brass family of instruments. you have spitfire as the trumpet and aeon as the trombone. trumpet uses the more common valve mechanism (actual flame tricks like afterburner and just making flames in general) to change notes while the trombone has the unique sliding mechanism(lack of flames but uses the same/greater speed and some heat to do time tricks). mouthpieces in the brass family are much easier to interchange because it's the same across the board with the exception of size.

i can go on with the different instrument families and roads but the thing to take away from these examples is that the regalia core is like that of the mouthpiece to the instruments within these two families and it can be used with different bodies of instruments within the family which can be like the road types. notice however we have the brass/flame which has the same core but different bodies/roads, where the woodwinds with different mouthpieces/cores being used in very similar bodies/roads. the woodwinds/wind type road are pretty much churning out the same tricks with only small nuances while the brass/flame type roads are churning out different tricks because of the bodies/roads.


As for Ine mentioning the "ultimate" Regalia, I took that as her referring to the Wind Regalia. The Sky Regalia isn't really a Regalia in the sense that other eight main ones and the sixteen branch ones are. It's the software/network that controls all ATs and AT technology in the world, and the Skylink is one part of it. Inorganic Net and the Chronos Image are part of Skylink. And the Flame Regalia allows the wearer to access Skylink and use the Tricks of every Rider in the world, as long as he/she has permission (maybe, with the master codes at the bottom of the "Tower," in that briefcase, one could that function of Skylink without having to ask permission for using the Tricks, and, ultimately, it's most likely also for allowing the Sky King to take full control of the whole AT world). I don't fully understand the bit how gathering all of the Regalia to activate the Sky Regalia works, yet, though.

if o!g was actually trying to be super foreshadowing then he could have meant ine's comment to actually refer to the sky regalia, but we may never know unless enough of us write to o!g and ask him to honestly tell us if he meant the wind regalia or the sky regalia with ine's line.


About the Roads, even if Yoshitsune knew about there having originally been 24 Regalia, since the main eight are the ones that really matter, he probably still wouldn't have mentioned the other sixteen since they're just "child" Roads of the main eight, based on the same concept as the "father" Road, each, but still a bit different. Also, chances are, only Dr. Minami and the Gravity Children knew up until now about the 24 Regalia.

if yoshi did know, i don't think it was because the other 16 were 'child' roads but that in general there are 8 types of roads that he would bother to mention (each with a main and branch roads). and there's no point in mentioning the other regalia because they are no where to be found (no rumors or people using/claiming they have a 'regalia'). again, we may have o!g probably failing on consistency with the somewhat contradicting info from earlier chapters and recent chapters - but i guess that's common when you have been doing a series for so long (and a weekly one at that, it would be hard to fit in time to look over old chapters to make sure he had things in order - and he also had tt until recently as well).

[DragonOsman2]

Um . . . about the 16 branch Roads, since they're branching off of the main eight, wouldn't it make sense for them to have the same concept but be a bit different in how the concept is applied? They aren't different from the "father" Roads that they branch off of; if a "child" were to differ from the "father" Road too much, then it wouldn't be the branch of that main Road. But realize that I'm not saying that "Time" is a "child" Road; I did say "if it's a branch Road of the Flame Road," but that was only an "If". I'm saying that, according to Spitfire himself, "Time" is classified as part of the Flame Road itself, not as part of a branch Road of the Flame Road. Meaning, I don't think that "Time" is part of one of the 16 branch Roads. I also still consider the Apollon Road to be part of the Flame Road because when that Loli girl used "St. Elmo's Crossfire" Trick, she accessed "Flame" mode first, and specifically used one of Spitfire's Tricks. I already posted a page for that, so I'll just post the page for when Spitfire tells Kazu that "Time" is classified as part of the Flame Road. Let's start here: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v22/c201/12.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v22/c201/13.html, http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v22/c201/14.html--you see that? "Flame Road, Chapter of Restraint". That's what the "Time" Trick falls under. And this: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v22/c202/1.html. See what I mean now? Though, yeah, I actually am confused as to why Spitfire and Aeon teamed up, and O!G even went as far as to say that their Roads have become one, when both of them are Flame Road Riders.

About that thing Ikki and Mikan did, couldn't it just have been a coincidence? And Ikki and Mikan both have the personality type for brute strength, so yeah, I don't think that was a Trick. And, shouldn't any Wing Road Rider be able to do that, now that I think about it?

And I'd like you to rethink your idea of the Hurricane Road . . . the fact that it's Wing Road plus Over Road, and is now getting more Roads added in should mean that just having Bagram wouldn't really be enough. The only reason all of Ikki's Tricks using the wind so far are from the Wing Road, mainly, is because it's practically impossible to use Over Road Tricks without the Rumble Regalia, or at leas something with a ramjet engine; the only alternative is to do what Ikki did with the "Null Wind" Trick, but in that, he used the Grand Fang Firebird Trick being reflected off of Buccha's "moving wall" being combined with his own wind to create a big storm where he amplified the power of the Grand Fang Firebird Trick. He used the Trick that was reflected off of Buccha's "wall" as the ramjet engine, and also amplified it and his own wind to create a gigantic storm. But besides the "Null Wind" Trick, all of his other special Wind Tricks are from the Wing Road; let me repeat: all of his Wind-type Tricks are from the Wing Road besides the "Null Wind". Only the "Null Wind" Trick is from the Hurricane Road. And it'll remain that way until he gets the Storm Regalia. After that, we'll see the actual Hurricane Road.

[suarhnir]

oyos

may i also add:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/air_gear/v18/c160/15.html (and i double checked the japanese script, it does say apollon road)
with this example, we have a clear example of a trick being carried over across different roads of the same type; you could also say that tricks that can be shared between roads can just as easily be called with one road one time and a different road another time. it gets really tricky when you bring in kazu's use of the flame regalia and churning out everyone's moves from roads that aren't his normal. is apollon a branch road based on the diagram of the 24? not certain, but as agito put it in the chapter 102, "there are as many roads and kings as there are people in the world" so for all we know, the apollon road is probably a branch road of a branch road of another branch road but it still follows the same type/family of flame. buccha himself has pretty much fallen into some branch off of the gaia road but its probably definitely one that's a way out there of a branching road.

anyways, since the jade road came into play, we've broken out of the 24 road mold quite simply because that diagram didn't have any examples of fusion roads. yet despite that, because of the regalias, it doesn't really matter that we did because the regalia are gonna stay the same (the shell may be tweaked but the core stays fundamentally the same - and i'm not even considering what is happening with the storm regalia) so regardless of the road it will somehow be part of one of the 8 road types. before we started adding more cores to the storm regalia, the hurricane road would have essentially been like the jade road which is a fusion road but it was considered a 9th road simply because there were plans to make a 9th regalia (before the rumble regalia was offered for parts). at that point, it could have really ended up creating a new main branch of roads that was more unique, but we suddenly went into reverse with all the other cores being combined that if you follow the diagram, would be come the central core road in which all others branched from. could we also consider that the origin of the 8 roads a 9th road (or 1st road since the other main 8 branched from that)? very likely, but aside from the sky regalia itself, there was no single regalia that could do that until now though it still lacks 2 cores.

[DragonOsman2]

I know it was called the Apollon Road. But notice that Spitfire taught the "Time" stuff to Kazu as part of the Flame Road, not part of the Apollon Road, though he can run both. Then again, so can Kazu himself. And since Kazu and that Loli both showed that it's possible to use that Crossfire Trick by oneself, without help from another person, I'd say Spitfire could've done it himself if his leg hadn't been injured, and still call it the Apollon Road. The Apollon Road and the Flame Road, both are Spitfire's Roads. That's why Kazu can follow both, too; it's because he was trained by Spitfire.

And the Jade Road is a Gem-type Road, though it does have the Wing Road as part of it. The Hurricane Road is a Wind-type, so they aren't alike. And yeah, Koro-jii did say that the Wing Road was too narrow/restricting for Ikki, so you could say that the Hurricane Road is a wider and more powerful Wing Road, but it's already got the "Null Wind" Trick, a Trick that can't be used with Wing Road Tricks alone, nor can just the Wind Regalia by itself suffice, and now it's getting more Roads added in. But Ikki is originally a Wing Road Rider, so when he runs the Hurricane Road with the Storm Regalia, of course his Tricks will be based off of Wing Road Tricks, and will be primarily Wind. But still, with the additional Roads and Regalia parts, it'd become impossible to get the same result with just Bagram. So the Hurricane Road, while being based off of the Wing Road, is still different.

When it was just starting off, I was pretty adamant about the Hurricane Road being nothing more than an altered Wing Road, since of all of its Tricks so far are from the Wing Road and only the "Null Wind" Trick combines the Over Road into it, and I also said that it was only in the Regalia that it was part Over Road. But later, I got to think more on it, especially about how the Over Road is impossible to run without some kind of a ramjet engine, and now that there are more Regalia cores being fused into it, it's become even more of a different Road. I do still hope it doesn't add in the other two Roads, though. And if possible, I think Ikki should give back all of the cores that were given to him except for the Thunder core, so that the Hurricane Road can be Wing Road+Over Road+Rising Road. Of course, I'm not saying he should give them back immediately, I'm saying he should wait until he's fought Sora, or at least until Agito and Kazu are out of the hospital. The Gram Scale Tournament is still going, so if Ikki does decide to keep all of those cores, they could still make new Fang and Flame cores for Agito and Kazu so that they can have fully operational Regalia for the Final Round.

[suarhnir]

oyos

there's a page in the volume version of the battle between aeon and spitfire vs nike, it comes after spitfire and aeon decide to team up but before they use the apollon road. spitfire tells the story of prometheus and how he defied the gods by giving fire to the world. that fire became a new 'power' and 'time' began and continues to 'burn'. it was spitfire's analogy of how the apollon road branched from the flame road.

however, it still stands with the current number of used regalia, they could only regard 8 kings and roads. if they didn't have someone as talented as kururu, or anyone like minami who started the research, then a 9th regalia wouldn't have been possible and ikki's hurricane road would have simply been regarded as a branching road of the wing road. just because it branches from it, doesn't mean its restricted to keep the same style of tricks, if ikki worked on it (which he has) he can start developing his own tricks that are not wholly based on wind but without a regalia it would mean he's a new kind of wind king (making it more of the evolution of the wind king to storm king and he would have to reclaim bagram).

the jade road is still a fusion road and the one trick that nike did that would probably count as an actual jade trick is the part where he walks upon the hardened air. gazelle's fusion road is also the same - she worked on mastering fang tricks when she had the thorn regalia, but now in agito/akito's body who were raised into the bloody road and fang tricks, is using her thorn tricks with the fang regalia in which lind used to save kaito and attack shalott and arthur. by acquiring the rumble regalia, ikki's wind based upbringing on a regalia that isn't bagram would also make the hurricane road a fusion road.

i personally don't want the storm regalia to keep all the cores, but yes, the storm regalia as it was first conceived in kururu's mind was strongly based on wind regalia and then it was redesigned off of the rumble regalia which became the first real step away from the wing road (something we never truly get to see in action). the additions of the other cores in my opinion are actually making it step back towards the sky regalia then to its own hurricane road (based on what we've seen on sf's use of the sky regalia).

[DragonOsman2]

The Sky Regalia isn't a step back, since the Sky Regalia is the Regalia of Regalia. If you combine all of the Eight Regalia into one, you get the power of all Eight Roads into one, and the power of all Eight Regalia into one; we're talking about the most powerful Regalia ever here.

And what I think of the Storm Regalia as is a combination of Kururu's replication of Bagram plus the Rumble, Thunder, Gem, Flame, and Fang cores. Ikki's still primarily a Wind-user, though, like I keep saying here, so even with all of these cores, his use of the Regalia would still be for powering up and augmenting/adding to his own wind. And all of the things he's done with the wind so far, I'm pretty sure Sora would also be able to do them if he tried (and knew enough about the Over Road--for the "Null Wind" Trick). Same for Mikan, since she's Sleeping Forest's Fuujin (Wind God), which basically makes her the Wind Queen of Sleeping Forest. The Gale Road is another of the Wind King's Roads, with the other one being the Wing Road.

I know that the Hurricane Road is a fusion Road. But it's based off of the Wing Road, and Ikki is primarily a Wing Road Rider. Am I wrong?

What you said about Spitfire's analogy of the Apollon Road was in the chapter we read on Mangafox and Manga-Access, I think. I'll have to go back and look.

[suarhnir]

oyos

what i meant on step backwards for the sky regalia is from the diagram. if the center 'road' that the first 8 branch from is the 1st step and going outwards is 'forward' then going back to the center would be 'backwards'. by all means, sky regalia would be the best of the best, but i was describing in a relative way.

so thinking about roads and kings and all that... we have regarded that lovely yet partially obscured diagram as mostly a roads progression and sometimes tie into the kings and regalia. so going on that tangent, what if that diagram was actually meant for the regalia progression? while between you and me, we can't come to a full agreement as to which is main and which is branch, what i think we can at least agree on is that there are 8 types of regalias. i'm not really trying to pick out which is the regalia of the main road but just in general, we do know that there are 8 types of regalia to work off of: gem, fang, thorn, thunder, wind, flame, rumble, pledge (we'll talk about those other regalias like gabi's and om's another time). the roads and regalia are based around that whether it be main or variation.

there could have been 1 - 4 grav kids with the same regalia type however, i think the very last to be developed and never fully realized while the 1st gen grav kids were still in the tower was the pledge regalia. in chapter 331, minami laid the foundation for gem, fang, thunder, wind, flame and rumble to understand gravity. thorn was last and the necessary component to bring about anti-gravity, but he never mentions pledge. my guess is that the reason why we don't see any regalia that even remotely looks like the pledge regalia is that it could have been developed last and late enough that it never saw fruition because the grav kids escaped by then. however, being a genius and the daughter of one of the key researchers, ine was able to complete the pledge regalia based on the left behind specs and data (different then kururu who was building from scratch and on what little she knows from working on a-ts themselves; ine had loads of data left behind so she was pretty much doing the final stage of completing the pledge regalia). this completed the 8th regalia which would serve as the 'link' between the other regalias in order to use the sky regalia. each regalia on their own has some sort of connection to the sky regalia and one of its main functions which can be used on its own (pledge and flame are the 2 prominent regalias that have been explained or shown in detail as to what it uses from the sky regalia; flame - access to memory/tricks stored in the database which we know as the Lon Houtz Bourne Street, pledge - access to chronos to control/utilize and process data). this last chapter had labeled the 'anti-gravity' portion under thorn and general 'control of space/movement' under wind. i think thunder has been given the 'power supply' role and the other roads i'm not sure...

this does put a twist on regalias for teh 1st gen for ones like simca and rune. if pledge wasn't really finished when they escaped, would it mean that they were using regalia of a different type? or were they using the building blocks of what would become part of the pledge regalia? at the least, no one was leaving the tower with some huge cross...

[DragonOsman2]

Well, it's not really concrete if the Pledge Regalia wasn't complete yet; they could have left the Tower with an incomplete Pledge Regalia, or "building blocks" for it like you said, or there could've been a way to "fold" it into a compact form.

And I think that since those six powers Dr. Minami mentioned are for defying gravity, "Wind," "Gem," "Thunder," "Rumble," "Flame," and "Fang," which are also the names of the Regalia themselves, it's safe to say that those six are the main ones of their types. Same for "Thorn". And since Ikki's Regalia is going to all of those six powers inside of it, it's going to be one hax Regalia. I can't wait to see it in action.

And if Ikki does keep them all, which he most likely will no matter how much some people might dread it, I'll be fine with it if they make replicas of the Gem, Flame, Fang, Thunder, and Rumble Regalia, and give them to those suited to use them. So that those Roads can continue to have "Kings". Since Kilik has decided to use a pseudo-Regalia, he might not accept a real Gem Regalia. If not, they could give the replicated Gem Regalia core to Buccha, and Kilik could train him. As for the Flame and Fang Regalia cores, well, we of course already have Kazu and Agito, so the replicated cores would go to them. The two left are the Rumble and Thunder Regalia. Nue might accept a Thunder Regalia core made by Kururu or someone else from Tool Toul To, since it seemed he just didn't want to use one made by Dr. Minami. If that also won't work, though, then maybe Blackburn could go back to being Thunder King. The tough one is the Rumble King's position. No one in Kogarasumaru could make a good Rumble King/Queen.

And once Sora has been arrested or killed, what's going to happen to the Wind Regalia? Who'll take it? I hope O!G has something good in mind. The Thorn Regalia Rika has could either stay with her (after her brainwashing is undone and she does actually want to stay as Thorn Queen), or it could go to Ringo if she'd accept it.

Anyway, about the Apollon Road, Kazu and Spitfire both ran/run it, and Kazu used the "St. Elmo's Crossfire" Trick as his Infinity Atmosphere Trick instead of "Infinite Inferno" which was said to be the Flame Road's Infinity Atmosphere Trick. And according to that Greek Mythology tidbit Spitfire talked about in the fight against the Takeuchi Brothers on the rooftop, Apollo created Flames and Time (IIRC). When teaching Kazu how to run the Flame Road, Spitfire did teach him the "Time" Tricks as part of the Flame Road's Restraint moves. The "cold flame" which can restrain the opponent's movement. Kazu and Aeon also used it to hide themselves and the rest of the team with heat convections, when they first got onto the aircraft carrier. "Time" uses heat, even though it's not actual flames, and so it's considered part of the Flame Road.

[suarhnir]

By the way, I just thought of something. Dr. Minami said he combined those 20 cores that Sora stole into the Bagram he had the whole time until the fight against Kilik back then, when it was destroyed, right? Didn't it look the same as it did in the Gazelle and Kaito flashback, or similar to it? And even despite all of those cores combined into it, it was still Bagram, the Wind Regalia core, so those cores were somehow doing nothing more than just powering up the "Wind". We saw Sora use that Bagram in the Inorganic Net battle as well. So, keeping that in mind, and also the fact that Kururu based the Storm Regalia on that Bagram plus the Rumble Regalia core, what if she actually is able to combine those other cores into it such that they only power-up the "Storm" and nothing more (the "Storm" being Wind+Rumble, since it was stated by Benkei, "'Wind' will 'Rumble' and become a 'Storm'". The "Wind" has already "Rumbled" and become a "Storm")? Kururu might still do it like that, so there's still a chance that the Hurricane Road still be Wing Road+Over Road.

The only thing going against that is what she said when remodeling the Storm Regalia core to incorporate the "Flame," "Fang," "Thunder," and "Gem" cores into it. Though, it could still actually help my theory, too. What she says is, "The wheels Rumble, the scorching Flame, the sharp Fang, the tenacious Gem, the swift Thunder, produces the Wind". I think the key here is "produces the Wind". Perhaps, she herself isn't wanting to have those cores' Roads combine into the Hurricane Road but actually just make the Wind more powerful--or in this case, the Storm. And since she said "swift Thunder," the Thunder Regalia lightning might just be for added speed. The Flames could make the Wind hotter, right? And since, even after having those 20 Regalia cores incorporated into it, the Bagram was still Bagram and looked very much like the one Sora and Nike had in the Gazelle and Kaito flashback, I think there's also still a chance that the Storm Regalia core will still look similar to the way it looked when we first saw one of its wheels, at that time when it'd gotten damaged.

Also, since Kururu did base the Storm Regalia core off of Bagram and then combine the Rumble Regalia core into it, maybe it does actually also have those same 20 Regalia automatically incorporated, unless Kururu wasn't able to replicate that perfectly when making the Storm Regalia core. But then again, the Bagram Sora is using also can't have them all intact, since it'd gotten damaged in the battle against Kilik back then and Kururu scrapped it to make the new Bagram; most of the parts came from that same Bagram Sora used to use, the one with the 20 cores combined into it, but some of the parts also came from the "Factory" in the Tower, or in other words, Tool Toul To's own parts, since that "Factory" is serving as Tool Toul To's base. So yeah, it may no longer have all 20 cores intact. But even if it does, since Kururu based the Storm Regalia core off it before combining the Rumble Regalia core into it, it may also have those 20 cores in it as well. So in total, Ikki is going to actually have 24 cores in his Storm Regalia, aside the Storm Regalia core itself which is Wind+Rumble. So 25 cores. Sora has 21. I'd say if Sora hadn't already taken the Sky Regalia's codes, Ikki would still have the advantage here, at least in number of cores.

Edit: Now that I think of it, there's one more thing Kururu says that could make my theory turning out to be right unlikely. She mentions a new Road no one has ever seen before, right? That could just mean that even just being Wing Road+Over Road, the Hurricane Road still a new Road no one has seen before, as it's going to have Tricks that are exclusive to it, made from combining those two Roads, and given additional power by the other cores.

oyos

i figured it would be good to pull in your post from the other thread here...

i looked back at the scans and saw what you meant about the regalia sora used when going after gazelle to when he formed sf. they look very much similar so i would say yes they are the same. what this means is, the flashback that has sora receiving bagram was sometime prior to 10 years ago when he chased after gazelle (o!g's style has evolved so it's hard to just look at the early chapter flashbacks to the recent chapter flashbacks and consider them the same age, but going on these 'subtle' clues, we have to accept it). what it also means is that sora had claimed the other 20 regalias (which is probably also where nike's regalia ended up but he probably voluntarily gave it up for sora) before gazelle and this pretty much settles when sora and nike had hunted down their fellow 1st gen grav kids.

next thing that comes from this piece of knowledge, bagram was not sora's original regalia/core (its not the regalia he left the tower with at least) and the bagram we know now is fused 21 cores into 1. along with this chapter, sora lists of other regalias so the list of original regalias/cores we have so far are:
gem
thunder
flame
rumble
thorn
fang
pledge
water
speed (really not sure on this, but the kanji was for 'jin' which doesn't function by itself in japanese but usually concerns speed)
solar

then we have the two fused cores:
bagram/wind
storm

on the topic of a fused core, if the core's function was actually tied to the sky regalia then what minami did in fusing the different cores was combine the different access functions into one. kind of like making a universal remote control instead of having different ones for different functions (like having a separate controller for the tv, one for the sound system, one for the audio player, etc.) if minami was going for more of that approach, then he wouldn't necessarily need to use the physical attributes of all the other cores, just the ones that would help get to the suitcase (the ability to create a safe barrier to go through the 8000 Kelvin (nearly 14000 farenheit or approx 7700 celsius) and not fall to his doom and make it back out alive... on an off note, i googled the temperature at which the human body would ignite and eventually turn to ash - 1400 farenheit (o!g your physics fail us on a huge scale *facepalm* ^^;; )

as for what kururu will do with the cores that she is combining... i think that she is working more on a physical attribute of combining cores so not so much being able to utilize the sky regalia (aside from a few functions that would be helpful as a storm rider like the access of Lon Houtz Bourne Street) and more on using tricks from the different cores. before i said that the storm regalia being made from combined cores is like a step to becoming the sky regalia but if minami made bagram to be more focused on utilizing the sky regalia and kururu makes the storm regalia focused on utilizing tricks as a storm rider, then i guess we have a yin yang kind of road between the two. both regalia have pretty much taken all the other roads and brought them together but their 'functions' are very different if not opposite.

[DragonOsman2]

It was said that Sora and Nike were able to "catch the 'wind'" as children. That would mean they had the Wind Regalia. I think what the point of that part of the chapter was, was that Dr. Minami took the Bagram Sora originally had while in the Tower and combined the 20 cores he'd stolen into it, and had to teach him how to use it so that he could handle it better.

And from the flashback itself, Sora was older than he was in the Gazelle and Kaito flashback, when Dr. Minami gave him the new Bagram.

[suarhnir]

It was said that Sora and Nike were able to "catch the 'wind'" as children. That would mean they had the Wind Regalia. I think what the point of that part of the chapter was, was that Dr. Minami took the Bagram Sora originally had while in the Tower and combined the 20 cores he'd stolen into it, and had to teach him how to use it so that he could handle it better.

And from the flashback itself, Sora was older than he was in the Gazelle and Kaito flashback, when Dr. Minami gave him the new Bagram.

oyos

the bagram sora uses now and 10 years ago when pursuing gazelle is not the same one he had when he left. it was very likely that sora's original regalia was geared towards wind due to sora's aptitude for it, but it still stands that the current bagram isn't one of the 'original' 28 cores that they all started with. from nike's lack of regalia and the sharing we see in the gazelle flashback, we can assume that nike had his combined into bagram as well. with the japanese script minami actually says he made a newly designed wind regalia that he called bagram that was made from combining 21 cores, not that he redesigned bagram and gave it back. in other words, bagram was the name given after the fusion of cores.

[DragonOsman2]

Yeah, but he did still say that it was a Wind Regalia then as well. It just probably wasn't called Bagram. Sora and Nike each had a Wind Regalia, but it wasn't a fusion Regalia yet and it wasn't exactly the same as it is now. And the Sora in the flashback in which he's given the Bagram by Dr. Minami is much older than the one in the Gazelle and Kaito flashback.

If both Sora and Nike were already Wing Road Riders, then the Wing Road isn't a fusion Road, and so its Regalia couldn't always have been a fusion Regalia. The Hurricane Road is a fusion Road with the Wing Road in it, but the Wing Road itself is one of the Eight Main Roads and is not a fusion Road.

[suarhnir]

oyos

i'm not saying bagram is for a fusion road either... i'm saying that bagram is a fusion of multiple cores. does it have to carry abilities of the other cores? no, it doesn't. what it does carry is the sky regalia functions/access that the other cores had. there are 2 parts that the regalia core is responsible for, the full capability use of the infinite atmosphere (all sub regalias can do it but it quickly breaks down the a-ts so use is limited) and the other is some sort of access/function of the sky regalia. minami used the other cores and fused them but the only infinite atmosphere usage he gave it was related to the wind road, but bagram carries the 21 core's worth of sky regalia access/functions.

this is also the contrast i was comparing to kururu, in that she is likely making the storm regalia to bring together the different infinite atmosphere usage more so than the combining of sky regalia access/functions. the storm regalia will have an infinite atmosphere different from all others if kururu is going from that approach of making the regalia for ikki.

nike and sora had their own wind type regalia (not shared or half of one) and then it was put into making bagram along with the other regalia cores they collected and then it became bagram which they shared half of when pursuing gazelle.

you should also keep in mind that earlier drawing styles of o!g in the series makes characters look 'older' than how they look in flashbacks in recent chapters, so you shouldn't compare how the characters 'look' when determining age. in some instances he makes them look too young or too old and it was really off when he did the inorganic net match and has the 6yrs ago versions of old sf members.

ikki:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c266/9.html<-- 1 year before series starts
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v05/c035/21.html<-- start of the series
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v29/c270/18.html<-- 6 months since start of series (approx 6 months passed in story time)

rika:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v28/c266/7.html<--1 year before series starts
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v05/c040/6.html<--start of the series
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v06/c042/18.html<--6 yrs ago flashback in early chapters
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v17/c154/14.html<--6 yrs ago flashback in mid-recent chapters


sora:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v06/c042/20.html<--6yrs ago flashback early in the series
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v17/c154/13.html<--6yrs ago flashback in mid-recent chapters

sora and rika in inorganic net match which is based on their 6yrs ago appearance:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v24/c218/4.html

[DragonOsman2]

Yeah, good point, but we still can't be sure that there were two different Wind Regalia versions before. What Dr. Minami said still leaves some things vague.

And wasn't the Gazelle and Kaito flashback dated back to ten years ago? The older Sora in Sleeping Forest is four years older than back then.

[suarhnir]

And wasn't the Gazelle and Kaito flashback dated back to ten years ago? The older Sora in Sleeping Forest is four years older than back then.

oyos

the flashback of sora receiving bagram from minami (and the writing of 'welcome to nightmare') would be before sora had chased after gazelle and forming sf would have come sometime during the later half of chasing gazelle or sometime after she killed herself, so we are putting these scenes within a year of each other:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v14/c118/16.html <--before going after gazelle
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v30/c299/4.html <--pursuing gazelle
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v17/c153/15.html <--after gazelle dies/before sf is formed
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v17/c154/13.html <--sora during team when rika joins
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/air_gear/v24/c218/4.html <--sora during the team when rika joins...

if you compare the 1st two links, he's supposed to be the same if not younger in the first than the second link. there's a significant difference in the last two scenes and how they are drawn... sora is supposed to be the same age in the last 2 links, but he clearly looks like an adult in the later chapter. this is all typical artist evolution of style but at the same time there's a bit of o!g fail in consistency.

now, sf with rika lasted for about roughly a year and a half at most and sora should have been past puberty when rika joined because they are supposed to be 3~6 years older than rika was (rika never went to high school which would have started at about 15-16 yrs old in japan; guys typically hit puberty roughly around 13 yrs and finish around 17 yrs).

i agree that we will likely never know how many variations could have been made for a certain type, but i think there was at least 2 wind type regalias in the beginning (owned by sora and nike since they were adept at 'grasping wind'). at this point, we don't know whether they were the same or if they were different variations... in the end, all we ever see is bagram which is the multi core regalia that has a wind type infinite atmosphere use but contains all the function/access to the sky regalia of 21 cores.

[DragonOsman2]

If you look at the fully activated form of Bagram, all it really is is just a pair of wings. That's the Wing Road's thing. The other cores don't seem to be influencing that. Either this is also an O!G fail, or he just now added the part about Bagram being made of 21 cores and was never thinking of this in the beginning. The current Wind Regalia is made solely for running on the Wing Road and manipulating the wind, too, and the other cores only seem to be adding in more defense capabilities, going by the barrier the Wind Regalia made for Sora at the bottom of the Tower.

And Sora and Nike seem to be in their early teens in the flashback in which they're chasing Gazelle. And when Sora received the 21 core Bagram from Dr. Minami, he seemed to be in his late teens or early twenties. If you're about that inconsistency only being either an O!G fail or an evolution in the art style, then okay, but I can't be sure as of yet.

Anyway, the term they use to refer to a Road's way of utilizing the air/wind is "Infinity Atmosphere". The word infinite is used only when talking about a particular Road's Infinity Atmosphere, but not all Roads have infinite as part of the name, but infinity. Like "Infinity Cage" (Bloody Road), and "Infinite Scale" (Ring Road). There's also "Infinite Chain - Turquoise Sonia" (Sonia Road--though, that was Ringo's one, and her Thorn Regalia doesn't have an actual core in it; we'll need to see Rika's Infinity Atmosphere Trick, I guess, or maybe Gazelle's if possible). The Wing Road's Infinity Atmosphere Trick, if I've heard right, is "Infinity Airdoor - Moonstruck Numberless Grappler". The main Infinity Atmosphere Trick is "Moonstruck Numberless Grappler," and according to Air Gear Wiki, the name of the Infinity Atmosphere of the Wing Road is "Infinity Airdoor".

[Breast]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ITS JUST YOU TWO ON THIS THREAD. Imo you guys should forward this to OG and make his brain explode@###@##$#$$

[Drylick]

Well I think the main reason why the Bagram is still running on the Wind instead of it running also on the other roads is that Minami just incorporated the 21 cores into it. He didn't make it a NEW regalia. It is still Bagram. Kururu's Storm Regalia, on the other hand is very different. It has the design of the Bagram, but she made it very different from the Bagram. Before Kururu received the Rumble Regalia, the Storm Regalias' design was already made. What Kururu did was incorporate the other runs of the regalias into the Storm in addition to the pre-designed Storm Regalia.

[DragonOsman2]

In the chapter in which she is told that she could use the original Rumble Regalia, she seemingly starts to think that her original design for the Storm Regalia would be trumped if she were to combine the mechanism of the "Wind" with the mechanism of the "Rumble". And we saw one wheel of the Storm Regalia core already, when it'd gotten damaged after getting to the aircraft carrier; it seemed to have a replica of Bagram combined with the Rumble Regalia core. What I'm trying to get at, is that even if she did make the Storm Regalia different in the way you say she must have, she still probably did combine the other cores into the Storm core that we saw (half of) already. And the Hurricane Road could still just be Wing Road+Over Road; if it is, then that means that the other cores have been added only to augment that. Probably in the same that the other cores combined into Bagram augmented the Wing Road.

And it's "Storm Regalia's". That word is a collective noun, we're not supposed add an S to make it plural.

[suarhnir]

oyos

thinking over the last few recent chapters and the dialogue about gravity and such i've come up with a new theory:

going back to that diagram of the roads or regalia (not sure which), we have the central symbol representing the true goal of all a-t/grav kid research - energy efficiency & defying gravity aka the sky. there are 6 main components that tie into gravity and thus the key to understanding gravity - wind, flame, gem, thunder, rumble, fang - then we have thorn which is representing anti-gravity and pledge which is the component to connect all of them. those 8 components are the first branching concepts in the diagram.

gem: free fall (kanji used with gem in minami's explanation), motion of mass where gravity is the only force acting on it initially. gem is the only solid mass concept among the roads and therefore can experience free fall due to gravity. free fall in absence of other forces except gravity leads to weightlessness (because air won't be whipping around the object falling, it would feel like floating).

rumble: centrifuge (kanji used with rumble in minami's explanation), an object in rotation around a fixed axis. this relates to the obvious shape of the rumble regalia as a turbine (and in yoshitsune's version a ram jet which is accomplishes the same task without the turbines). artificial gravity can be achieved by use of centrifugal force.

fang: thrust (kanji used with fang in minami's explanation), a reactional force from a system that expelled/accelerates mass. airplanes are able to acheive flight by using thrust to gain lift which over powers gravity.

flame: oscillation (kanji used with flame in minami's explanation), the repetitive measurement between two or more different states. flame shape formation and efficiency affected by gravity. in gravity, flames rise upwards due to it being lighter than the denser air surrounding it - the gravity is causing bouyancy.

wind: lifting power (kanji used with wind in minami's explanation), by creating differences in pressure (an airfoil for planes) an upward force is created that will oppose gravity. air is the most prevalent mass that affects free fallling objects.

thunder: electromagnetism (kanji used with thunder in minami's explanation), the interaction between electrically charged particles. electromagnetic force can be attractive or repulsive, but gravity is always attractive.

thorn: anti-gravity (as described in minami's explanation), a space or mass that is free/independent from the force of gravity.

pledge: to spin (furigana alongside kanji for pledge), like the spinning of yarn which can be an analogy of creating the link the ties the other concepts together.

each of those 8 concepts have 2 branching corrollaries that relate to physics which in turn relate back to the concept of gravity but i will do that later... it's late and my mind is fried from looking all of this up.

[DragonOsman2]

Thanks for this, it's quite insightful (the part about which Regalia is for what purpose in defying gravity).

Though, didn't we already know all of that? It does seem that the Pledge Regalia has two branching Regalia whose Roads are related to the Ring Road in function (probably), which were the ones taken by Sora, when he took all of those cores that have been combined into Bagram.

[suarhnir]

Thanks for this, it's quite insightful (the part about which Regalia is for what purpose in defying gravity).

Though, didn't we already know all of that? It does seem that the Pledge Regalia has two branching Regalia whose Roads are related to the Ring Road in function (probably), which were the ones taken by Sora, when he took all of those cores that have been combined into Bagram.

oyos

well, in the english translations, it was translated with just the regalia types with no indication of the kanji meaning that o!g was trying to associate with. so to anyone who can't read japanese will miss out on this and that's why i wanted to throw this out here for everyone. there's some related topics to each of these concepts that would more or less fit into the 2 branches from the first 8 concepts and i'll get those posted sometime later tonight because it was a lot of research in just trying to see how it relates to gravity.

as for one of the incorporated cores into bagram, having one of them being associated to the ring road would make sense because that's really the only way we've seen in the series to 'connect' other pieces together.

--

this is gonna be a pain in the butt... but i like digging for info~

the concept of oscillation is represented by flame. it would be more appropriate to label it more as thermodynamics since the result of oscillations of molecules/mass will create energy. the 2 branching corrollaries are heat and flame/combustion.

flame/combustion corrollary: defined as an exothermic chemical reactions between a fuel and an oxidant. the result is light in the form of a 'glow' or an actual flame. going into thermodynamics, the flame/combustion is merely the changing of energy in one form into another - which in this case will be some mass to heat and fire. this is greatly effected by gravity as the resulting mass has become lighter than the environment it is in and therefore will rise up. its not that gravity has no hold on it, but that gravity is pulling down the denser air which forcefully push the less denser fire upwards - a bouyancy effect.

strangely enough, flame/combustion is tied more to energy efficiency as the event of combustion creates usable energy in human society. a flame in micro/zero gravity burns more efficiently because the combustion products are not 'carried' away from the fuel source like it does in gravity.

heat corrollary: defined as energy transferred from one body or system to another. this is the final result of flame/combustion but can be generated independently from it. gravity itself can create heat; if you drop an object it will 'warm up' due to the energy being created as it falls.

basically, heat is the bridge of changing what currently exists into something else. to defy gravity can't magically just happen, there must be a way to convert what energy is available and bound by gravity into an energy that can defy gravity.

how does this tie into the flame regalia that currently exists? in the wonderful world of air gear, we have kazu fully demonstrate the combustion and heat corrollaries when he activates the flame regalia. the obvious flames that are emitted from the regalia while activated and the use of the 'energy' stored in lon houtz bourne street data into 'energy' he used to fight nike. i wonder if o!g actually thought real hard about all of these roads and regalia and his sudden revelation of how it all ties back to understanding and defying gravity...

doing one concept and its corrollaries was more time consuming than i thought so i'll just churn them out one by one...

[DragonOsman2]

Heat and combustion both tie into the Flame Road itself, as does "Time," so they're not really branching concepts, are they? Or were you not going for that? If you weren't, then sorry; I seem to have misunderstood something earlier. The Speed Regalia and the Solar Regalia, it seems, are the ones that have concepts that branch off from that of the Flame Regalia.

[suarhnir]

oyos

i'm not regarding roads with these corrollaries and a true corrollary is something that readily follows from a previous concept. the original concept is actually fire (one form of oscillation since molecules are quickly 'shaking' when in a state of fire), and the two concepts that directly associate to it are heat and combustion which in turn follow into thermodynamics. i'm not heavily following the road concepts in this diagram, just the concepts as far as how it would connect to gravity as i had said when i decided to look at the diagram in a different way. also oscillation is far too broad if i started there instead of honing into fire because oscillations can easily go into electromagnetism which is supposed to be it's own separate concept. i am disregarding the regalias we know of because it would make me try to mold the stuff i'm looking up into fitting that instead of being more objective about this. after we've covered all the bases, we can discuss what regalia is connected to what.

[DragonOsman2]

Ah, okay. I get it now.

Carry on.

[rogueSleipnir]

rumble: centrifuge (kanji used with rumble in minami's explanation), an object in rotation around a fixed axis. this relates to the obvious shape of the rumble regalia as a turbine (and in yoshitsune's version a ram jet which is accomplishes the same task without the turbines). artificial gravity can be achieved by use of centrifugal force.

fang: thrust (kanji used with fang in minami's explanation), a reactional force from a system that expelled/accelerates mass. airplanes are able to acheive flight by using thrust to gain lift which over powers gravity.

Hey, I think you got these two interchanged.

Let's analyze:

Rumble is Thrust.
Recall Rumble Wall and the Windmill effect.
The Windmill absorbs the wind used by the opponent and throws it back.
The Rumble Wall creates a wall of wind strong enough to deflect anything else.
The Rumble regalia is a turbine that thrusts air.

Fang is Centrifugal Force,
Imagine how Fang's tricks are all used.
They use a spinning motion, kicks and flips to perform them.
The Fang regalia is composed of wheels spinning going at 0-max-0 to deliver the force gathered through centrifugal motion.

[DragonOsman2]

Actually, a Fang is based mainly on thrusting since, if you pay attention, they mainly use kicking motions after making 0-100-0 braking inertial energy. Suahrnir didn't interchange or flip anything, she's exactly right. Turbines and ramjets create spinning motions for power, rotation on a fixed axis, and that's centrifuge. Not to mention, Suahnir can read Japanese. She said all of that based on her understand of kanji, hiragana, and furagana, and also what Dr. Minami said when he explained the six powers that oppose gravity, as well as the Thorn and Pledge. Suahnir is explaining what the Japanese characters associated with the words Dr. Minami used to describe the aspects of the powers of the eight Regalia were. Those characters weren't translated in a way that we could've seen what they are or what they actually mean, but Suahnir was able to read them and tell us what they mean and what they indicate as to what the Regalia powers are and role they play in opposing gravity.

[suarhnir]

oyos

since you guys have dived into those two concepts, here's fang for today...

the concept of thrust is represented by fang. thrust is actually also pretty tricky and i'm thinking that all of these concepts can so easily relate to another that it is no wonder that you really need all 8 (technically 7) to understand gravity and how to oppose it. the branching corrollaries are acceleration and shockwaves/shock. generally, gravity isn't really something we feel at all, but we can feel the 'drag' (resistance) when moving in a direction.

acceleration corrollary: defined as the rate of change velocity with time, which can be either speeding up or slowing down. in the easiest explanation, speed. thrust in and of itself is about speed but is specific to a single direction that is in opposition of the system (for example: going against direction of the wind). acceleration can be felt in any circumstance that involves motion, with the exception of 'free fall' in the absence of air resistance (one feels weightless because they can't feel the acceleration).

shockwaves/shock corrollary: defined as a propagating disturbance by sudden acceleration/deceleration. i really don't know how to fluff this idea out but the easiest example is crack of a whip (creates a mini shockwave/sonic boom) or how vehicle breaks the sound barrier - the most obvious evidence of a shockwave is the sound that is created when punching through a medium (including gas/air). an interesting note about shockwaves is that the energy created from an occurence is not lost though how it affects other parts/systems can create a strain.

these concepts are surprisingly well displayed in fang tricks, though it does ties into how the thorn tricks work too...

[Brandnewkid]

oyos

since you guys have dived into those two concepts, here's fang for today...

the concept of thrust is represented by fang. thrust is actually also pretty tricky and i'm thinking that all of these concepts can so easily relate to another that it is no wonder that you really need all 8 (technically 7) to understand gravity and how to oppose it. the branching corrollaries are acceleration and shockwaves/shock. generally, gravity isn't really something we feel at all, but we can feel the 'drag' (resistance) when moving in a direction.

acceleration corrollary: defined as the rate of change velocity with time, which can be either speeding up or slowing down. in the easiest explanation, speed. thrust in and of itself is about speed but is specific to a single direction that is in opposition of the system (for example: going against direction of the wind). acceleration can be felt in any circumstance that involves motion, with the exception of 'free fall' in the absence of air resistance (one feels weightless because they can't feel the acceleration).

shockwaves/shock corrollary: defined as a propagating disturbance by sudden acceleration/deceleration. i really don't know how to fluff this idea out but the easiest example is crack of a whip (creates a mini shockwave/sonic boom) or how vehicle breaks the sound barrier - the most obvious evidence of a shockwave is the sound that is created when punching through a medium (including gas/air). an interesting note about shockwaves is that the energy created from an occurence is not lost though how it affects other parts/systems can create a strain.

these concepts are surprisingly well displayed in fang tricks, though it does ties into how the thorn tricks work too...

Remember, Gazelle was the Thorn Queen and is technically Ag/kito's mother. Possibly, the 'Fang' is an offspring of the 'Thorn.'

[suarhnir]

oyos

that doesn't really fit into how falco was around and he had fang tricks but was definitely not the child of gazelle...

[DragonOsman2]

^Exactly. "Fang" and "Thorn" are both part of the Sky Regalia, their runes were always part of the Rune Futhark with the eight bars (that needs nine to be complete). Fang and Thorn are both part of the original eight "powers" of the Regalia. It wouldn't make any sense for "Fang" to be an offspring of "Thorn". Not to mention, Gazelle did refer to the Fang as Falco's Trick when she was practicing how to produce Fangs. It's not like she came up with those Tricks on her own or anything. Also notice how Lind was able to combine "Thorn" and "Fang" into one Trick and create a "Fang" and "Thorn" hybrid Trick.

[Brandnewkid]

^Exactly. "Fang" and "Thorn" are both part of the Sky Regalia, their runes were always part of the Rune Futhark with the eight bars (that needs nine to be complete). Fang and Thorn are both part of the original eight "powers" of the Regalia. It wouldn't make any sense for "Fang" to be an offspring of "Thorn". Not to mention, Gazelle did refer to the Fang as Falco's Trick when she was practicing how to produce Fangs. It's not like she came up with those Tricks on her own or anything. Also notice how Lind was able to combine "Thorn" and "Fang" into one Trick and create a "Fang" and "Thorn" hybrid Trick.

O ... kay.