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kkck
November 15, 2011, 04:46 PM
Ok, if everyone recalls we saw some time ago zancrow, someone who claimed to use god-slaying magic in what seemed to be the same context as natsu used dragon slayer magic. What does using dragon slaying magic entail? Dragon slayers mimic the power of dragons in order to defeat dragons (interestingly, the magic itself is not a creation to defeat dragons in itself but rather it bestows the user with powers of dragons). The users body becomes like that of a dragon and it mimics its magic. Now, if we apply the same logic to the god slayer we get that the god slayer immitates the powers of gods in order to defeat gods.

Now, as far as what we saw there are three things which lead me to believe we should take the whole god slayer thing somewhat seriously.

The first is that when zancrow fought natsu we saw that it was plainly obvious that zancrow's fire was superior to that of natsu. This is evidenced by the fact that natsu could not eat zancrow's flames while zancrow was able to more than easily eat the dragon flames.

The second is that natsu was able to use this flame to combine it with his own to make an even stronger flame which zancrow himself could not it. If the flame was not something special it would not have resulted in something which could defeat zancrow that fast (it would have been interesting to see zancrow using natsu's flame to make dragon god's flame however it would seem at the time he either was to arrogant to do that or perhaps since he was still using his magic (when natsu used zancrow's flame he kinda emtied himself) he was not able to combine it).

The third is what hades said about the origin of the magic of the seven kin. He mentioned specifically that the lost magic of the seven kin was close to the source of magic. In this regard we get that god slaying magic, the power of gods, is close to the source. This would be quite significant overall.

Now, even though the word "god" is usually a bit too much I think we have to put it into context. By a god the manga does not necessarily point towards the traditional definition of the word as an omnipotent all-knowing being. The fact that there is a god slayer implies that there is a creature which is being imitated by the god slayer (as is the case with dragon slayers). The name "god" could simply be what enourmously powerful ancient creatures were called in the past. Dragons at some point were said to rule the earth, perhaps before them were this very power beings.

Anyways, I think the whole god slayer thing could easily have some deep implications in the future, specially if zancrow was indeed imitating the power of a creature.

eefrit
November 15, 2011, 05:21 PM
While that is a good theory, I doubt we will see God Slayer anymore. But I do believe it is the product of an ancient "creature" or being that was once superior to dragons. Either that or it was an ancient and more advanced form of Lachryma.

The lost magics were really interesting and mysterious, especially the three arc magics, and while I said I doubt we will see more of them, I kind of hope your right and we will see them in the future.

kkck
November 15, 2011, 05:32 PM
Well, we don't necessarily have to see any more god slayers, the implications of the existence of "gods" could easily lean to somewhere else. Even if we don't see any more god slayers, how about seeing one of the actual gods? Not sure how this would be set up in the manga though, a god slayer would be by all intents and purposes at least as powerful as a dragon to say the least which would be fairly difficult to defeat. The implication of the power of a god being close to the origin of magic can have very interesting ramifications depending on how mashima plays it.

eefrit
November 15, 2011, 06:06 PM
Ahh, I see what you are saying. Yes, I could see that happening. But as you said it depends on how Mashima plays it. That seems like it would be something after the dragon plot is finished. Something like the Dragons and their students team up to face the old gods.

silenciosolee
November 15, 2011, 06:09 PM
dude, read chapter 218 again..there was no real god that taught zancrow, god slaying magic..he just considered hades as a god..

eefrit
November 15, 2011, 06:23 PM
True, but Hades could have learned about and studied the magic somewhere else. Since he was looking for the source of magic, he could have come across information that told him about godslaying magic and it's properties, which he passed on to Zancrow.

kkck
November 16, 2011, 01:16 AM
dude, read chapter 218 again..there was no real god that taught zancrow, god slaying magic..he just considered hades as a god..

Well, would natsu teaching his magic to someone else imply dragons are not real? The only way zancrow's magic and power make sense within the context of the manga is that one way or another it is ultimately mimicking some powerful creature. What is the point of a god slaying magic if there are no goods? How could there be a magic which imitates something which does not exist? Why would it be named god slaying magic if it was something some dude came up with independently from the existence of a creature called at some point a god? Also note that I did not say zancrow's magic was taught to him by a god, I merely suggested that him imitating the power of a god implies the existence of such beings at some point in time within the context of the manga. More so, hades himself was not using god slaying magic, he simply taught it. Based on what we saw of zancrow and hades I think it is quite clear zancrow was not imitating the power hades has as it is quite clear hades never used god magic (even if he appeared godlike). if the creature zancrow whose constitution was imitating was hades it would make sense for hades to use the same powers zancrow had yet that was never the case.

Bigfoot187
November 16, 2011, 05:21 AM
A self proclaimed "god-slayer"is just a wizard with a powerfull magic with a godcomplex.

Jorge D. Dragon
November 16, 2011, 06:19 AM
Actually that's quite an interewsting theory. As we see now the strongest beings for now are Dragons and thus for now the strongest oponent should be Acnologia, but if she isn't the last boss of the manga? Actually after several Arcs there is a posibility FT will fight against Acnolgia again, but at the end I believe we'll learn that there is something beyond her and that will be the moment we'll find about stronger being such as "God" or "Demon King".
Actually it looks quite like Rave Mashima's previous work.

Ifrit
November 16, 2011, 08:59 AM
True, but Hades could have learned about and studied the magic somewhere else. Since he was looking for the source of magic, he could have come across information that told him about godslaying magic and it's properties, which he passed on to Zancrow.

HADES learned all the magic he knows from "Zeref" book If I understood the arc correctly....even the lost magic he tried to pull on team Natsu he used the same hand motion when Zeref pawned HADES.

but I don't know if Zeref is the Source of magic....because HADES said he was searching for the Magic of one..and then he found Zeref...Blunote also said something like if u trace any magic....it will all lead to one single magic...so I guess that is Zeref.

kkck
November 16, 2011, 10:52 AM
I don't think it was said hades learned everything from the book of zeref. It is implied the book has a number of spells but in the end it was never elaborated on whether the magic of the seven kin came from there. I also have my doubts of zeref being the source of magic. It is perhaps likely that zeref was the one who discovered magic or its source though. Another interesting thing about this whole thing is that zeref appears to be a dragon slayer, the dragon slayer of acknologia. If zeref is a dragon slayer, then isn't it a bit weird that god slaying magic is superior to DS magic? In this regard perhaps neither of them is superior to the other but rather the supposed gods are simply creatures of roughly equal power to dragons but of different species.

Quantized
November 16, 2011, 12:48 PM
I don't think it was said hades learned everything from the book of zeref. It is implied the book has a number of spells but in the end it was never elaborated on whether the magic of the seven kin came from there. I also have my doubts of zeref being the source of magic. It is perhaps likely that zeref was the one who discovered magic or its source though. Another interesting thing about this whole thing is that zeref appears to be a dragon slayer, the dragon slayer of acknologia. If zeref is a dragon slayer, then isn't it a bit weird that god slaying magic is superior to DS magic? In this regard perhaps neither of them is superior to the other but rather the supposed gods are simply creatures of roughly equal power to dragons but of different species.

Interesting point, it reminds me of Doctor Who, the episodes with the "Master" who was forced to stare into the void of space & time as a child, which literally drove him insane for the rest of his life. Real science aside, this is Sci Fi :p
But if something similar happened to Zeref...? Maybe he's both dragon slayer of Acknologia but also managed to find the source of magic, stared into it and went insane from it.

Could imagine him being raised evil and powerful from Acknologia alone.
Then after staring or touching the source of magic, he went "nuts" to boot and way more powerful.

*Shrug* who knows.. but about the god slayers, seemed self proclaimed indeed, or someone clueless named him. There is no way to be sure though.. can't wait for next chapter, hopefully we get some tiny clues for this huge puzzle..

silenciosolee
November 17, 2011, 11:53 PM
Well, would natsu teaching his magic to someone else imply dragons are not real? The only way zancrow's magic and power make sense within the context of the manga is that one way or another it is ultimately mimicking some powerful creature. What is the point of a god slaying magic if there are no goods? How could there be a magic which imitates something which does not exist? Why would it be named god slaying magic if it was something some dude came up with independently from the existence of a creature called at some point a god? Also note that I did not say zancrow's magic was taught to him by a god, I merely suggested that him imitating the power of a god implies the existence of such beings at some point in time within the context of the manga. More so, hades himself was not using god slaying magic, he simply taught it. Based on what we saw of zancrow and hades I think it is quite clear zancrow was not imitating the power hades has as it is quite clear hades never used god magic (even if he appeared godlike). if the creature zancrow whose constitution was imitating was hades it would make sense for hades to use the same powers zancrow had yet that was never the case.

You fail to see my point, my point is that zancrow is not really a god slayer. He just implied that he was since he considered hades as a god, well in greek mythology he is but in this manga he's clearly not a god. It's probably still a slaying magic but we're not even sure if what kind of slaying magic it is, for all we know it could just be dragon slaying magic or a root of some kind tracing back to the origin of magic. I'm not closing my doors to the possibility that there are godslayers but I do believe that Zancrow is not really one.

kkck
November 18, 2011, 01:01 PM
Zacrow did not "imply" he was a god slayer, he flat out stated it. That is his magic in the same way natsu is a dragon slayer. Obviously hades is by no means or in any form a god but that is not the point at all. The manga points to zancrow acquiring the power of "gods" for the purpose of slaying gods which is conceptually the same thing DS do with dragons. Now, within the context of the manga "god" would just be a name (either given or adopted) to some powerful ancient creature. We are not necessarily talking about the traditional definition of "god", just am obscenely powerful creature which could potentially compare to a dragon. Zancrow did compare hades to a god however it is painfully obvious that hades is by no means the creature whose power zancrow mimics. In this regard zancrow is a god slayer whether he was taught the magic by hades or not. Zancrow's comment on hades is not evidence that he in his lunacy named his magic that way, that is simply the name of the magic taught to him by hades. The manga gave the proper names of every magic grimmoire heart used. There is no real reason to assume zancrow was the only one who lied.

Rarhyx
November 18, 2011, 05:32 PM
zancrow is just a poser.

gao_dargon
November 18, 2011, 07:59 PM
Makarov did say
a Dragon can not eat the flames of a God implying he knew gods existed

kkck
November 18, 2011, 08:16 PM
^Well, makarov did not say that, it was zancrow. Still, it is a manga fact that zancrow's flame was inedible to natsu and originally too hot for him. More so, according to makarov natsu made his body into one that could eat the flame which perhaps suggest natsu made himself into a pseudo GS to pull that of.

Bigfoot187
November 23, 2011, 05:26 AM
In the end the point of dragonslayer is magic taught by a dragon.
since Zancrow learned it from a human (namely Hades) and there wasn't any report of Hades being taught by a god
its very simple, Zancrow's magic power is a lost flame magic, just like romeo's fire magic but then the oldest and strongest form of it closest to the source of magic power. Nothing more nothing less.
The reason natsu couldn't eat it at first caus he didn't know that kind of fire and figured out how it worked during his fight.

And thats the way the cookie crumbles!

kkck
April 28, 2012, 07:41 PM
ok, several chapters ago we saw orca, an user of black lightning and it was pretty much hinted that he would be fighting laxus soon enough. This was probably mentioned in the chapter discussion but odds are pretty high that orca is also a god slayer. If that is the case then odds are he would have an advantage over laxus as god slayers seem to be able to simply eat DS magic. I wonder how laxus would win that one and where exactly orca would have learned such a magic in case he is indeed such a mage. It would be interesting if saber tooth turned out to have some sort of contact with an actual god or at least someone like hades who has knowledge of a number of lost magic.

---------- Post added April 28, 2012 at 07:41 PM ---------- Previous post was April 09, 2012 at 02:16 PM ----------

Thinking about it, why is this thread in the archive?

kkck
June 25, 2012, 01:31 PM
One thing I have found weird about god slayers is that at no point they have taken any non human physical attributes. Dragon slayers generally have rather long fangs (for a human) at least and in some cases we have actually seen them with actual scales on their bodies. Namely, natsu when using dragon force, gajeel's iron scales, and cobra and laxus. Sting and rogue even have different eyes.

Now, if we assume the principle behind a god slayer is the same as the principle behind a DS then we have to assume that god slayers are people who mimic the constitution of a god. So, why haven't we seen them with at least one non human trait? Perhaps the so called gods are actually human like in appearance. SO basically the gods would be human like beings who have control over a particular black element.

Another possible interesting development, God slayer lachrima lol.