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View Full Version : Question Whats the fuss bout CoC?!



MaiSiaoSiao
November 20, 2011, 01:46 AM
I know it gives u the awesome power to knock out people or animals just by looking at them.But why the big fuss over it?If ur strong enough to withstand it,its practically useless IMO.Take Shanks boarding WhiteBeard's Ship in ep 316 for example.Hes able to knock out some of the Whitebeard pirates but not All of them.That makes those that are able to withstand the power/force of the CoC "immune" to it.And everyone in OP keeps saying those with the CoC are the chosen ones and capable of standing about others and stuff.
(Shanks FTW!:D)

Another part is that i've realized that No One in the Marines have CoC!!Not that we know of.Sengoku,Garp,3 Admirals and so on...Why is that?! When so many pirates,people opposing the WG has it.

Maybe it has been revealed somewhere and i missed it.Or our dear Oda has something installed for us.Like always...

Jorge D. Dragon
November 20, 2011, 08:20 AM
It's not only about knocking out trash and monsters with it. It's also useful to comand people as Luffy managed against Sundersonia or Marigold (i don't remember who it actually was) and during the execution, when he made two soldiers stop Ace's beheading.
Also as Mihawk stated Luffy's real strength lies not in his DF or physical and combat capacities, but actually in his power to make friends and I believe his CoC helps him to do this. He is a pure leader like his father, like Roger and Whitebeard and also Shanks.

matzik1212
November 20, 2011, 08:28 AM
Hmm i agree with you to some point 'cause i also think the other 2 types of haki are much reliable that COC but i think it's a great thing and a privilege for one to have it . As you said it only affects the weak opponents and you gave as example the confrontation between Shanks and WB (R.I.P.) but even though we saw both of them withtstanding it that doesn't mean it was an easy thing to do(those guys from WB crew even if they didn't pass out they were pretty messed up ) ....i mean we all know how this type of haki reflects the spirit of the user so i think it's a pretty dangerous and worth fussing over it thing 'cause if the user becomes someone insanely strong then no one will stand a change of victory as it practically messes with your consciousness .... to put it simply this COC haki it messes with you head and slows down a person :D

MaiSiaoSiao
November 20, 2011, 06:12 PM
It's not only about knocking out trash and monsters with it. It's also useful to comand people as Luffy managed against Sundersonia or Marigold (i don't remember who it actually was) and during the execution, when he made two soldiers stop Ace's beheading.
Also as Mihawk stated Luffy's real strength lies not in his DF or physical and combat capacities, but actually in his power to make friends and I believe his CoC helps him to do this. He is a pure leader like his father, like Roger and Whitebeard and also Shanks.
I dont think he "commanded" them.I think they were stunned/shocked/stupefied because other then Hancock,they haven seen anyone using the CoC.
And Ace execution.Lets just say.Sengoku himself decides to execute Ace personally instead.And Luffy haki burst-ed him.I dont think it would stop Sengoku from beheading Ace.Only for a while i guess to recover from the shock.
And i srsly hoped that theres more to CoC then knocking people out,commanding people if possible..

NarutoNamikaze
November 20, 2011, 06:27 PM
i think you guys misunderstood something. people get knocked out by coc, but that´s not it´s original power. coc is basically the power of intimidation, you show your spirit to intimidate. weak people lose their consciousness because they are sheer overwhelmed by the power.
although the result might be the same, the thinking process is different. also it´s not like coc has no effect on strong people. we´ve seen that on whitebeards ship, where the guys who managed to stay awake were truly intimidated (well whitebeard, marco and jozu not), but also in recent chapters where luffy uses his haki. the guys who managed to stay awake are shaking with fear, hodi included ( well his hands are shaking).

http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/634/12

And btw, commanding people would be too Star Wars, don´t you think?

raDar
November 20, 2011, 06:43 PM
And another thing, it was stated by Rayleigh that out of all the 3 types of Haki, CoC is the only one you cannot improve by training it. Instead it strengthens along with the individual's personal growth. Which I think makes it more unique and worth the "fuss".

http://www.mangareader.net/103-56928-15/one-piece/chapter-597.html

And I'm also pretty sure Oda still have lots to show regarding the three forms of Haki as the series goes on.

kkck
November 20, 2011, 08:49 PM
I don't think the CoC is that big a deal in terms of fighting either. You can certainly knock out an army with it however a fight would most likely be decided by the dozen of people of actual power in whatever side. I think the significance of the CoC is elsewhere. Lets take a look at how it works. We know for a fact that you cannot train it. It is an expression of your own willpower which you use to overcome and impose yourself upon others. Taking it a step further, it is an expression of your individuality and the strength of your character. In that regard the CoC is a bit of a bulleye for a particular sort of people with a particular set of personality traits which make them exceptional. In this regard, when a marine sees a pirate with the CoC they know that particular pirate has an enormously powerful will, they know it is a pirate with the personality traits to become great and the fortitude to go to whatever length necessary to reach his ambition whatever it may be. No marine wants to see a pirate reaching his ambition, such a thing leads to yonko and PK.

Just as a side note, having the CoC does not give you the personality traits I mentioned earlier, rather those few who have those personality traits have the CoC.

Jassaray
November 20, 2011, 09:22 PM
I agree with kkck. I don't think that it's importance lies in it's offensive power. The important part of the ability is the willpower and strength of character that accompanies the person who can use it. The AOE effect is just a nice bonus for intimidating weaker enemy forces. It's been shown that even if the aura of willpower doesn't knock you out, you can still feel the wave of determination and inner strength. That serves as a true warning to your opponent that you mean business and may even make them hesitate, even if it doesn't put them on the floor.

zelllogan
November 21, 2011, 10:36 AM
COC can also break things as it was shown by shanks crackling bits of the moby dick.
But even without that, I think that COC can be a great asset in battle. Even if it doesn't include KOing strong opponents ... it can at least put fear/doubt in the opponent mind.

kkck
November 21, 2011, 01:17 PM
Honestly, I really don't think CoC has any sort of function in a fight against strong people, and by that I am being extremely literal. Luffy fought hodi, who was so much absurdly weaker than him that even underwater hodi could not get an edge and there was still no indication whatsoever that CoC had an effect of any kind on hodi. CoC is merely a manifestation of your character and willpower, nothing else, in this regard its only application against actual fodder is identifying exceptional people. If someone so insignificantly weak as hodi did not get affected by CoC then I doubt there is anyone out there worth a damn who would be affected by it at the least. As for the things breaking, it could have also been shanks CoA.

hoeru
November 21, 2011, 08:47 PM
But as Shanks demonstrated on Whitebeard's ship, the CoE establishes some kind of pressure that knock out the fodder characters in an instant and that can even damage non-living objects. Oda spent a whole panel on this - I don't think it was wasted as effect to hype.

If I theorized I would think it was the sudden and unexpected pressure that intimidated the Boa sisters and the Marines so they didn't kill neither Marguerite nor Ace. I could even imagine that the CoE can become actually that strong to break apart weapons even without connecting the CoE user.

There's still enough room for Luffy's Haki to grow - he even said it himself when he mumble something about his CoA being still too weak to work against Hody's teeth. He knows how to use all colors but it's now up to himself to grow both physically and mentally to make his haki stronger. (And I think that near the end of OP, Luffy's CoE will be so strong that he'll crumble some rocks right before fighting his opponent. Shanks' using it that way he did is somehow the target how Luffy is gonna use it.)

The reason why Hody nor his commanders were knocked out by the CoE: They aren't fodders - each of them is in my opinion as strong as Kid or Law 2 years ago...

kkck
November 21, 2011, 09:10 PM
Haki capable of breaking stuff would be COA not CoC. I do doubt the commanders are that strong though. Frankly, even hody before the pills did not seem significantly stronger than lucci.

hoeru
November 21, 2011, 10:13 PM
Haki capable of breaking stuff would be COA not CoC.
You didn't understand properly: CoA doesn't work before the weapon hits. CoE puts pressure on the user's surroundings which breaks wood. And I think Shanks hasn't used his CoE to full extent back on the Moby Dick.


I do doubt the commanders are that strong though.
As long as Luffy didn't knock them down with his CoE, I don't have any doubt to think the NFP commanders were strong enough to withstand his rather weak CoE like the Kid, Law and Strawhat Pirates were "only" stressed by Ray-san's CoE in the Human Auction hall.

In the following chapter, Zeo, Dosun and Daruma are shown standing...


Frankly, even hody before the pills did not seem significantly stronger than lucci.
I'd even say pre ES Hody was potentially much weaker than Lucci... But that's no use, either.

MaiSiaoSiao
November 22, 2011, 03:39 AM
Nah.Rayleigh "selected" the people he wanted to knock out/intimidate.So the rest wasn't affected

hoeru
November 22, 2011, 12:06 PM
Yeah, by using his CoE with reduced power so the rookies were able to resist its effect. It wouldn't be much of use saying that he wanted to talk to luffy and then knock him out with some force he doesn't know.

MaiSiaoSiao
November 22, 2011, 10:06 PM
i think they CoC users can Select people who they wan to intimidate and not just reducing their power.Take Shanks saving Luffy for example..If CoC really has to be reduce in order to refrain from intimidating weaker people,that would mean luffy is stronger then seaking at the age of 7...which i highly doubt.Another recent example, is when rayleigh was teaching luffy the basic of haki and some huge elephant barge out.Even luffy in G2 couldn't hurt it.and yet rayleigh CoC could knock it out while not affecting luffy.
That goes to say that CoC can be controlled to the extend of not intimidating people whom u do not wish to intimidate.And not just reducing its power level.

BlackHair
December 01, 2011, 05:00 PM
Well as already said CoC is mainly only used on "fodder". It has zero effect on strong opponents. But battles are fought in armies and in ever army there are some fodders, so it is indeed a advantage. But again meaningless in serious fights against tough foes.

But I think CoC is mainly used as a prestige. Whoever posses CoC has great leadership and is destined to lead a army. And most likely is known in the world.


But as Shanks demonstrated on Whitebeard's ship, the CoE establishes some kind of pressure that knock out the fodder characters in an instant and that can even damage non-living objects. Oda spent a whole panel on this - I don't think it was wasted as effect to hype.Actually I think Oda did indeed use the material objects to hype haki. After all Haki was presented in that form for the very first time in the entire manga. So making it grand and special is just obvious. As Shanks was using it on the battlefield for the 2nd time, blocking Akainus attack, we didn't see any cracks on material objects, nor on the several other uses by Luffy and Rayleigh. So the simple and best conclusion seems to me that Oda used the cracks on Mody Dick just to hype Haki.


i think they CoC users can Select people who they wan to intimidate and not just reducing their power.Take Shanks saving Luffy for example..If CoC really has to be reduce in order to refrain from intimidating weaker people,that would mean luffy is stronger then seaking at the age of 7...which i highly doubt.Another recent example, is when rayleigh was teaching luffy the basic of haki and some huge elephant barge out.Even luffy in G2 couldn't hurt it.and yet rayleigh CoC could knock it out while not affecting luffy.
That goes to say that CoC can be controlled to the extend of not intimidating people whom u do not wish to intimidate.And not just reducing its power level.The event with Shanks in chapter 1, was more likely Saki. Which just means killing intent. It was confirmed by Oda that he did not intent to make OP a long running series. I remember reading somewhere that it was supposed to run only for about 100 chapters. But as many times, Oda did a miss calculation. So Im definitely sure that Oda did not think of haki in chapter 1. It has to be more likely Saki, killing intent. Which is commonly used in other mangas as well.


Nah.Rayleigh "selected" the people he wanted to knock out/intimidate.So the rest wasn't affectedI honestly was never sure about that. But I believe giving the facial expression of Sanji, Zoro (http://www.mangareader.net/103-2610-17/one-piece/chapter-503.html) and the rest, I believe Ray just throw it into the room. With confidence that the grandson of Garp and his companion are strong enough to withstand that. After all Luffy is Shanks (his former pupils) chosen man and the 3rd generation carrying that strawhat.

Anyway, Ray did for sure not hold back on the rookies. As he commented himself (http://www.mangareader.net/103-2611-12/one-piece/chapter-504.html).

kkck
December 01, 2011, 05:04 PM
I also read that he did not intend to make the manga this long however I don't think he ever intended on making the manga 100 chapters short. I think he originally intended to have the war a lot earlier however he decided to make it longer. My impression was that he intended for a 500 chapter long manga and it got to be twice that.

BlackHair
December 01, 2011, 05:16 PM
hm.. Then I might have read that part with 100 chapters somewhere on a forum, idk.. has certainly been a while. Anyway, I just don't see Oda thinking of haki in chapter 1. Heck even Shanks loosing his arm does seem now out of context, considering our current knowledge. I think Oda did not foresee Shanks role that much in advance, does not make any sense to me.

zelllogan
December 02, 2011, 01:28 AM
Haki capable of breaking stuff would be COA not CoC. I do doubt the commanders are that strong though. Frankly, even hody before the pills did not seem significantly stronger than lucci.

COC was using to break (a very tiny part of) the moby dick by shanks. Apparently, pressure can be hard enough even on objects.

EddyBob15
December 08, 2011, 03:58 PM
I think Luffy wasn't aiming his haki at Hody and his officers. I think he was saving them for him and his crew.