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View Full Version : Discussion Gotei 13 - Good or Evil?



thornofcarrion
November 23, 2011, 12:29 AM
Simple, what do you think about Gotei 13? Do you see them as evil or what they are doing is correct? Keeping in view the revelation made by Ginjou in Chapter 474, are Gotei 13's action justified?

What else comes to your mind, discuss here.

noVaLue
November 23, 2011, 09:47 AM
It's all right :), you're not born into SS or your your body is still human:) (not being dead for real), you have to obey rules. That's why after this arc we don't know if ichigo will be a Substitute Shinigami or an acknowledge one.

g0dzax
November 23, 2011, 10:35 AM
Well,Gotei 13 is a very complicated faction.I'll share my thoughts later after I've organized them,but ever since we've been introduced to Mayuri (the first time) and the Central 46 (Urahara's trial and the execution of several captains and vice-captains)I've had my suspicions about Gotei 13,as it is not necesarily a good faction,but rather both good and evil


It's all right , you're not born into SS or your your body is still human (not being dead for real), you have to obey rules. That's why after this arc we don't know if ichigo will be a Substitute Shinigami or an acknowledge one.

That's very interesting,I didn't think about it,what if Gotei 13 deems Ichigo (despite him saving the world ) to be "dangerous" because of his transcendental powers and decides to kill him or something like this ? It would be an interesting twist,though by the way Byakuya overcam Tsukishima's FB because of his strong bond with Ichigo,I doubt we'll see something like this.

Darjaille
November 23, 2011, 02:02 PM
|Talking about the Agent Badge thing, they're right.

It's wise to keep an eye on some strangers that have powers. SS cannot afford to have a human with shinigami powers running around the world. In the beginning, they didn't know Ichigo. What if he turned out to be a lunatic?
I think after all that happened.... I really, really doubt Ukitake sees Ichigo as a threat. He went through hell just to save them all.
But of course they won't just ask him to give back the badge.

Also, restricting powers is even wiser. Reiatsu affects normal people (what we believed that happened to Inoue and Chad) and again, SS cannot afford to let some stranger run around doing what he wants.

But again, I think they don't see Ichigo as that anymore. Besides, if SS (Central, Yama) decided that he should be eliminated, half of the Captains and Lieutenants would come to defent him IMO.

davidvoyage
November 25, 2011, 11:17 AM
EVIL!

These are my speculations:
-> It seems those who are dead and went to soul society village live a very poor life.
-> Aizen is actually "good" but his way of "destroying" Gotei 13 is bad. So that make him "bad". (His intention to destroy Gotei 13 is good though)
-> Soul Society needs to be changed! The way it is now (people living a poor life) is bad.
-> I have a feeling that toward the end of this anime, the true meaning of "Bleach" will become apparent. "Bleach" may be a project to change soul society for the good, in order to do that, Gotei 13 has to be destroyed! Just like "Xcution". On the other hand, it may be the reverse, Gotei 13's project is "bleach", annihilation of everything that oppose them.
-> Gotei 13 is operated under judges of the Central 46 Chambers. I can guaranteed that they are 100% evil.

The Newbie.
November 27, 2011, 12:59 PM
I'm not going to vote in the poll until it's fixed because right now it's only "Good, Evil, I don't know". The Gotei 13 has been known to act in dubios ways since forever, and many (I can't understate this) people think the system is rotten. Of course I will just name characters.
Look at Tousen, angry at the Shinigami because of their justice system and contempt.
Zommari because of their arrogance and arbitrary laws and rules.
Urahara and Hiyori because of the harsh laws that keep shinigami from doing what they deem correct.
Ukitake and Shunsui because of the absolutism going on with the superiors' orders.
Aizen, who didn't like the system as a whole and wanted to take the Soul King down.
Ichigo and Kaien before, when he asked Byakuya about the rules, and then said that he would fight them if he didn't like them.
The Quincy might apply because of their belief that Shinigami are incompetent when it comes to judgement.
Now Ginjo, who doesn't like being a pawn "unknowingly" because of precautions by SS.

This is not about being Good or Evil, it's about the way Soul Society works that makes them look bad, this isn't the first time someone stands up and tries to do something against them.

BulaNe
November 28, 2011, 12:56 PM
this thing is more like a try to shake Ichigo's resolve (again)

the part about keeping an eye on Ichigo could be a truth and quite understandable, but the part about SS evil and stuff is kinda exaggerated IMO. the institution as it is has more likely become too arrogant and confident but not evil

Rumina Asagi
November 29, 2011, 04:31 PM
Lawful Neutral. At best.

Bleach is made up of unreliable narrators, and Ginjo himself must be included in this - if that badge is so awful, then why is he still carrying it around?

SaitoSpike
November 29, 2011, 06:26 PM
its a military their job isnt to be good or bad...their job is to DO...they receive orders....they follow em thats all there is to it

like any other military in the real world

lordoffantasy
November 29, 2011, 11:54 PM
Lawful Neutral. At best.

Bleach is made up of unreliable narrators, and Ginjo himself must be included in this - if that badge is so awful, then why is he still carrying it around?

this is a high piont in narration on their part.
i would keep it with me, if i had a grudge against soul society. a reminder of my bitterness and anger. however it is obvious ginjo himself is not a godo guy at all. manipulates a group of abdnormal people, osme of them little kids even, twists their logic, uses them, and screws with ichigo.
ichigo is gonna own ginjo because of what he has done. however will want answers from the soul society for their manipulations. inchigo ain't gonna lose faith in his friends; they obviously came all this way to restore his powers. seeing byakuya's fucked up arm might also exemplify this.
who knows, maybe they are already all agaisnt soul society?

Jorge D. Dragon
November 30, 2011, 03:43 AM
We still don't have sufficient info and as I see it we can learn the info we need in two or three upcoming chapters. For now I see them as neither good nor evil, cause they have to obey the rules of Central 46, but also I believe that Kubo may change something and we may see them being pawns in someone's evil hands.:)

ca12nag3
November 30, 2011, 06:27 AM
I believe the Gotei 13 to be good in nature, or more along the line of protecting that which is good and innocent.

Worst case is that the Gotei 13 is a necessary evil. Seeing how Kaien who i see as a good person along with Rukia and formerly Yuruichi are all part of the Gotei i dont have doubt over the people in it. They are all good people.

What i mean with necessary evil is that they might have to do things that are considered evil. However doing it for the good of all.

Look for instance at the hollow that evolve, they have feelings, they can decide to do good or bad, (once evolved) however SS sees them as evil and eliminates them to protect the innocent.

I wouldnt see Nel as evil, even before her injury. And she has feelings, cares for her comrades. Take Aizen he went evil. And he was a shinigami. Its hard to judge an organization and then write off the people that belong to it.

Kubo doesnt write a simple story with goodies and baddies, he mixes them up, the entire Quicy stuff mixed in with SS also shows a bad side of the Gotei13. Yet it was needed for the balance.

I got the feeling that in the end Ichigo has to decide things for himself that will make him the enemy of SS, but he has to do justice. Well see ^^.

That would make the Gotei13 the enemy of Ichigo but i would still not call them evil :D

Rumina Asagi
November 30, 2011, 07:53 AM
this is a high piont in narration on their part.
i would keep it with me, if i had a grudge against soul society. a reminder of my bitterness and anger. however it is obvious ginjo himself is not a godo guy at all. manipulates a group of abdnormal people, osme of them little kids even, twists their logic, uses them, and screws with ichigo.
ichigo is gonna own ginjo because of what he has done. however will want answers from the soul society for their manipulations. inchigo ain't gonna lose faith in his friends; they obviously came all this way to restore his powers. seeing byakuya's fucked up arm might also exemplify this.
who knows, maybe they are already all agaisnt soul society?

It actually doesn't make sense that way. If Ginjo wants to strike out at soul society, or disrupt them in any way, then allowing them to know exactly where he is at all times, analyze his abilities, and know exactly what he's doing would be a ridiculously idiotic mistake, if not arrogant in the extreme.

lawrence
December 01, 2011, 08:11 PM
EVIL!

These are my speculations:
-> It seems those who are dead and went to soul society village live a very poor life.
-> Aizen is actually "good" but his way of "destroying" Gotei 13 is bad. So that make him "bad". (His intention to destroy Gotei 13 is good though)
-> Soul Society needs to be changed! The way it is now (people living a poor life) is bad.
-> I have a feeling that toward the end of this anime, the true meaning of "Bleach" will become apparent. "Bleach" may be a project to change soul society for the good, in order to do that, Gotei 13 has to be destroyed! Just like "Xcution". On the other hand, it may be the reverse, Gotei 13's project is "bleach", annihilation of everything that oppose them.
-> Gotei 13 is operated under judges of the Central 46 Chambers. I can guaranteed that they are 100% evil.

Have you ever thought that "bleach" could mean that some force consisting of SS, HM, Hell, Human World or some random world is trying to dye all the world one color?

yumimi
December 03, 2011, 09:11 PM
I bet that Ichigo's "mysterious birth" that is apparently meant to be very important in some way will come into this somehow @_@

This also raises questions on Kisuke... I mean, SS had to have figured out he was in the human world right? I mean, he was there for over 100 yrs after all o.o If they did know, then that puts Kisuke's motives/actions into a fair bit of doubt as well :S

@person above me: Kubo originally chose Bleach because it was about the shinigami (black/white, white=Bleach) Ofc, he could always twist it in another way [tho it seems like he's had this in mind ever since finishing the SS arc -.- since that was when Ukitake gave Ichigo the badge after all]

Miyagi
December 10, 2011, 03:52 AM
Whether Gotei 13 is good or evil, Ichigo doesn't have hard feelings for them. He appreciates what they did for him to pay off their debt and he knows they didn't leave him totally in the dark. I think we won't see Gotei 13 as the evil party again, we've already been there. I don't read as much manga as some of you do but I don't recall any enemy (from main character's POV) that turned into good and then bad again and fought the main character once again.

IMHO Urahara isn't evil either. Urahara had hogyoku, he had the opportunity to do what Aizen did, to use hogyoku to create chaos but he disposed of it instead. If you're evil, you must be out of your mind to get rid of hogyoku and Urahara is anything but stupid. Perhaps he has done questionable things in the past (I wonder if he fed souls to his hogyoku lol), they say science is curiosity but I think he is at his core a good man.

Quantized
December 10, 2011, 10:50 AM
Whether Gotei 13 is good or evil, Ichigo doesn't have hard feelings for them. He appreciates what they did for him to pay off their debt and he knows they didn't leave him totally in the dark. I think we won't see Gotei 13 as the evil party again, we've already been there. I don't read as much manga as some of you do but I don't recall any enemy (from main character's POV) that turned into good and then bad again and fought the main character once again.

IMHO Urahara isn't evil either. Urahara had hogyoku, he had the opportunity to do what Aizen did, to use hogyoku to create chaos but he disposed of it instead. If you're evil, you must be out of your mind to get rid of hogyoku and Urahara is anything but stupid. Perhaps he has done questionable things in the past (I wonder if he fed souls to his hogyoku lol), they say science is curiosity but I think he is at his core a good man.

Not to forget he could probably create another if he wanted.
-------------------

Kubo is the master of creating evil characters that in the end aren't evil or not "that" evil...

Ishida was a light bad guy in the beginning (very short time) --> they became friends.
Soul Society evil --> turned out good (for now).
Renji and Byakuya were seemingly evil --> Turned out to be good.
Ulquiorra, Grimjow and other Arrancars turned out to be "somewhat" good in the end as well.
Aizen even turned out to be a less of a bad guy, he wasn't evil, but very lonely.

Now Ginjou starts to turn good, when Kubo try to make us understand him, seemingly he got an Aizen complex, being lonely.
Soul Society seem to remain good, but were twisted for a few chapters.

It's just, hardly anything in Bleach remain evil, it's always turning good.
Even Aizen, who was the only seemingly good guy to turn out to be a bad guy, but then in the end showed to just be lonely...

I mean, if Sou Society is evil, I'd eat my hat, it's not Kubo's style.
As much as I like Bleach though, I find it a bit lame we don't have true evil villains in Bleach, hopefully the final villain turns out to be truly evil.