Hunter x Hunter Chapter 327 Discussion

[Uriel]

Chapter out! When you will make a review of it? Enjoy!

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Proin sollicitudin mollis augue sed semper.
Aenean eget lectus eget risus laoreet convallis id non massa. Cras non urna vitae neque imperdiet rhoncus.
Quisque luctus felis ultricies eros mollis pulvinar.

[Phantron]

Unconfirmed scan:

http://imgsrc.baidu.com/forum/pic/item/7acb0a46f21fbe0922ec0a5c6b600c338644adcc.jpg

Hisoka: You didn't tell me that butler was stronger than you.
Ilumi: Oops.

Seems too early but you never know.

[mrsticky005]

Unconfirmed scan:

http://imgsrc.baidu.com/forum/pic/item/7acb0a46f21fbe0922ec0a5c6b600c338644adcc.jpg

Hisoka: You didn't tell me that butler was stronger than you.
Ilumi: Oops.

Seems too early but you never know.

I see nothing.

[Phantron]

I never had much luck linking stuff from the Chinese sites for some reason, trying it inline and see if it works.

http://imgsrc.baidu.com/forum/pic/item/7acb0a46f21fbe0922ec0a5c6b600c338644adcc.jpg

[mrsticky005]

I never had much luck linking stuff from the Chinese sites for some reason, trying it inline and see if it works.

http://imgsrc.baidu.com/forum/pic/item/7acb0a46f21fbe0922ec0a5c6b600c338644adcc.jpg


what do you mean "inline"?

[Foreva]

The spoiler that has Hisoka with a battered arm is undoubtedly fake. If you look at the page right after that Hisoka page, you can see that it's page 6 of chapter 324:
http://3.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/44/29-324.0/compressed/d006.jpg

[Phantron]

Yeah, I was wondering what the left side was and why it wasn't scanned. It's more interesting than the other fakes, though.

The fake text info has been rather uninteresting ever since Leorio returned. I guess they ran out of the popular character to write fake info around. Now stuff is like "Zushi learned Kyanon" or "Hanzo destroys all" and so on.

---------- Post added at 01:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------

Still unconfirmed, looks more believeable than the last one.

http://i.imgur.com/nu9Xv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vA0Xc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QQxmo.jpg

[•Sasuke•]

http://animeprodestiny.forumcommunity.net/?t=37822471 <- spoiler pics out

[Phantron]

Preliminery translation:

Killua separates himself from the Butlers.

Gotoh reported to someone that he's separated from Killua, and he needs the 'ally' to watch Killua for him.

Tsubone is crying (in joy) over Killua's improvement. She doesn't like Ilumi or Miluki, but she won't let her personal feelings get in the way. She is thinking about how to deal with Killua's speed and get him to cooperate.

Alluka: Big brother, am I a burden? If I am not around, is everyone going to get along better?

Killua: Alluka, if I tell you the only person in the world that loves you is me, will you feel sad?

Alluka keeps smiling. Killua hugs Alluka, and say that he will always be together. Killua noticed someone else is near.

Hisoka versus Gotoh + Canary + Amane

Gotoh blocks Hisoka's cards with his coins.

Gotoh: Everyone get out of the way. Save your energy for the mission. I'll deal with him.

Gotoh figured out Hisoka's ability. Hisoka says there's no point to tell his name to someone who is about to be dead, nor is it his concern a dead guy knows his ability.

Gotoh throw more coins. Hisoka blocks them with his bubblegum.

Hisoka cuts Gotoh's neck with a card.

[LoS]

Poor Gotoh I actually enjoyed his character. Pretty baller Colombian necktie though, Hisoka is a really skilled killer.

[Phantron]

Poor Gotoh I actually enjoyed his character. Pretty baller Colombian necktie though, Hisoka is a really skilled killer.

It sounds like Gotoh might be the informant that Ilumi was talking about. Hard to tell at this point without seeing the pictures.

Some more translation:

Hisoka: I took 22 of your coins. How many shall I return to you?
Gotoh: Don't be ridiculous. The answer is... I shall block all 22 of them!
(Hisoka cuts Gotoh's neck)
Hisoka: The answer is 4 (same pronounciation as death). Nobody can answer the riddle from Death.

Not too sure about Japanese puns, but I think "The answer is 4 (coins)" is pronounced the same as "You are dead." At least, 4 = death is a pretty common wordplay in Japanese anything so I assume that's what Hisoka is talking about here.

[Bomber D Rufi]

I was about to post the translation of those pages, but Phantron beat me to it.

Damn Gotoh, you went out like a player....if you have. Which I hope you haven't.

....looking at the pics again....it's kinda obvious you did go out. *sigh*

Alluka: I'm so happy that I can't stop smiling!

Killua: For now on your big brother is going to be with you.

There's no need to even think about..

The others.

Almost worth Gotoh's death. Almost.

[Phantron]

I was about to post the translation of those pages, but Phantron beat me to it.

Damn Gotoh, you went out like a player....if you have. Which I hope you haven't.

The side caption says: "Gotoh leaves the battlefield!", though of course the side caption is rarely right when it comes to HXH since it's not written by Togashi. At least he hasn't had his head cut off, so there's still hope.

I checked what Hisoka said, and I think he is saying "The answer is 'The End' (written like 4 coins)".

[Bomber D Rufi]

I just edited my post. I looked closer at the pics and it's obvious he died.

It looks like his head DID get cut off.

The very last page says....

'The Shinigami quiz'

'Doesn't NEED any respondants'.

Damn Hisoka.

[Phantron]

I just edited my post. I looked closer at the pics and it's obvious he died.

It looks like his head DID get cut off.

The very last page says....

'The Shinigami quiz'

'Doesn't NEED any respondants'.

Damn Hisoka.

Gotoh needs to channel the spirit of other shonens and pull a "I didn't want to use my full power"

After looking at Alluka and Killua, I can imagine seeing Killua teling Gon that he was just suffering from an Alluka-withdrawl and mistakenly thought Gon was his best friend to fill the void of missing Alluka, and he'll live happily ever after with Alluka and leave Gon to rot on his own.

Togashi has no mercy for fan favorites. :(

[Airget]

I dunno, judging from that last picture it looks like he's lacking a head, which is quite surprising to actually see him go down that fast. Granted perhaps it isn't since when Pokkle came back who wasn't really seen since the Hunter exam was pretty much killed off quickly during the start of the chimera ant arc. Though it is interesting to note that while Pokkle did die he did serve a really big influence to the overall arc since it was his death and then brain manipulation that allowed the ants to learn about Nen and become the overpowering monsters that threatened society.

What's really odd about Hisoka's action though is while he appears to want to see Gon live, what made him act in the way he did. It is most logical to think that he's unaware of the attachment Killua may have to him and by killing him he may have influenced the odds of Gon's survival ever so slightly. It'll definitely be interesting to see the other pages though it is disappointing to alrdy see the last page of this chapter lol.

[Phantron]

I dunno, judging from that last picture it looks like he's lacking a head, which is quite surprising to actually see him go down that fast. Granted perhaps it isn't since when Pokkle came back who wasn't really seen since the Hunter exam was pretty much killed off quickly during the start of the chimera ant arc. Though it is interesting to note that while Pokkle did die he did serve a really big influence to the overall arc since it was his death and then brain manipulation that allowed the ants to learn about Nen and become the overpowering monsters that threatened society.

What's really odd about Hisoka's action though is while he appears to want to see Gon live, what made him act in the way he did. It is most logical to think that he's unaware of the attachment Killua may have to him and by killing him he may have influenced the odds of Gon's survival ever so slightly. It'll definitely be interesting to see the other pages though it is disappointing to alrdy see the last page of this chapter lol.

In HXH you're not going to block someone's fist or a weapon with your neck unless you're a Royal or Meryem.

From the dialogue it looks like Gotoh is quite capable of withstanding Hisoka's attack head on, but then HXH isn't really about fighting toe-to-toe anyway. There's no way a human character can just block Hisoka's cards with their neck. I think this scene is supposed to illustrate Hisoka's experience in killing people.

It's quite possible Gotoh is the informant. He may want Killua to get captured on purpose so he can't put his life at risk via using Alluka. So this might not even hurt Killua's chances, though it sure seems like there will be some payback when Killua finds out what happened.

[Bomber D Rufi]

Gotoh needs to channel the spirit of other shonens and pull a "I didn't want to use my full power"

After looking at Alluka and Killua, I can imagine seeing Killua teling Gon that he was just suffering from an Alluka-withdrawl and mistakenly thought Gon was his best friend to fill the void of missing Alluka, and he'll live happily ever after with Alluka and leave Gon to rot on his own.

Togashi has no mercy for fan favorites. :(

I can sorta see that happening.....it's been hyped up that Killua will eventually leave Gon, and who would be a better person to go with than his little sister? I mean, I can't imagine Killua going on to follow Gon as a hunter when his sister is pretty much not considered a family member by the other Z's. I doubt he'd extend an invitation for her to come along either.

Geez. Now I REALLY don't want a Hiatus. I'm about ready to be Togashi's assistant myself if it means the series will keep going for another few months.

And lol, I want to see SSJ Gotoh...anyone else?

[Ero-Sanji]

In HXH you're not going to block someone's fist or a weapon with your neck unless you're a Royal or Meryem.


Haha, you forgot Uvogin!

Anyway, this chapter seems to be very intense and cool, Hisoka doing what he does best. I really liked Gotoh though as a character and it's quite sad to see him go like this, so soon. His coin skill looks great though. I hope at least Canary gets away with her life intact.

[mrsticky005]

Gotoh dies? To be honest I was expecting at least one of the butlers to die.
Gotoh was awesome but he's probably the best to die for that very reason.
Plus it looks like he gets a pretty awesome death.


BTW anyone else glad to see that Hisoka is back to his good ol murderous self again :D

[Phantron]

Haha, you forgot Uvogin!

Anyway, this chapter seems to be very intense and cool, Hisoka doing what he does best. I really liked Gotoh though as a character and it's quite sad to see him go like this, so soon. His coin skill looks great though. I hope at least Canary gets away with her life intact.

Ubogin was wounded on the shoulder, not the neck. I think the neck has a major artery. While HXH characters can shrug off a ton of bleeding wound, they're not going to live with a severed artery.

I think this is pretty consistent with how HXH says raw power doesn't determine everything because you're never going to train yourself to a point where you can block a hit with your head or your neck, so sure someone might have a higher power level than you but it doesn't mean you can't kill him in potentially one hit.

[•Sasuke•]

2 more pics posted in the 2 ch
http://animeprodestiny.forumcommunity.net/?t=37822471 last post

[ksfst]

HISOKA IS BACK. OH YEAH! TIME FOR MURDER!
I'm so happy, hope he kills at least another butler after a good fight, tho I liked to see him owning, there's no fun when it's too easy like it was this time.

Edit: Two new pics are out, Hisoka is such a PIMP, damn. He's looking better than ever.

[Ero-Sanji]

Ubogin was wounded on the shoulder, not the neck. I think the neck has a major artery. While HXH characters can shrug off a ton of bleeding wound, they're not going to live with a severed artery.

I think this is pretty consistent with how HXH says raw power doesn't determine everything because you're never going to train yourself to a point where you can block a hit with your head or your neck, so sure someone might have a higher power level than you but it doesn't mean you can't kill him in potentially one hit.

It was a joke, okey...
The guy stopped a bullet with his teeth, hence he has the courage to stop an attack with his neck.

[esmei14]

Hi. I am newbie here. Just want to ask, why do some people have a copy (scans) of future chapters?? They bought it? Where? :) Thanks!

[•Sasuke•]

new pics
http://animeprodestiny.forumcommunity.net/?t=37822471

check the last post

[Host Samurai]

Togashi is such a beast to release an awesome chapter again. Damn, and Hisoka is impressive as ever. Didn't think that he can use his bungee gum like this, his bungee gum seems to have a lot variations. Now add this technique with his unpredicatibility then you have a deadly combination.

[Foreva]

That technique only worked because Gotoh didn't have enough power to shoot the coins through the gum layer. If Hisoka uses that technique against someone strong like Razor, his face or chest would definitely be crushed by an emission attack or a projectile, as the layer would be pushed back very far towards his body; not to mention vs. Netero. But then he might not use it when fighting high-level opponents.

[THM Nindo]

I don't know why you guys all say that Gotoh is dead.
Sure, he got cut in the neck, but that doesn't mean he's dead.

And, I can totally see his head in the last panel.
I don't know why you say that he's headless...

[LoS]

Hisoka just looks so damn cool in those spoiler pics. The way he just struts up to all the servants and poses while displaying his power and giving off some murderous intent. And then the way he just flashes his cards up in front of them, it's just so cool. Then he shows of some great agility and hand to hand combat to go along with a really tricky nen used in fights, just downright a great fighter. The guy has some serious skills.

[kkck]

So goto was a nen user? For me that was a surprising development, I always assumed he could not use nen and neither could the other butlers (with the exception of the old lady).

[Foreva]

I don't know why you guys all say that Gotoh is dead.
Sure, he got cut in the neck, but that doesn't mean he's dead.

And, I can totally see his head in the last panel.
I don't know why you say that he's headless...
He didn't just get his throat cut; he got it cut by Hisoka, the guy who has been shown to be a masterful throat-cutter since the beginning of the series. I don't know how you could expect him to survive that. Plus, this is HxH, it's not unusual for nice side characters to die; things like this happened various times in the past.

[Jack Van Burace]

Hisoka is spiderman with an invisible web and a killing instinct.

Gotoh is done for, unless some of the other butlers step in to help. There's no way Gotoh will live, being besides his killer, in the middle of nowhere, and Alluka needs to touch a person for healing wishes. Unless Killua decides to turn back and save Gotoh, that butler is dead.

But then again this might become Killua's first real trial: deciding upon Gon's life above Gotoh's. And I think he will sacrifice the butler.

[hellrocker]

its the last page of the chapter, who knows whats in togashi's mind

that maybe one of the butlers ability to create a replica of someone they touch/see/know

we wont know it until next week but it also suck if gotoh is really dead coz he is nice to my

favorite character Killua.

[Host Samurai]

For those who are impatient just like me and are unable to wait for Mangastreams release. :D

Here is the chinese version of the chapter. (http://pic2.sfacg.com/AllComic/1/327/)

[Phantron]

That technique only worked because Gotoh didn't have enough power to shoot the coins through the gum layer. If Hisoka uses that technique against someone strong like Razor, his face or chest would definitely be crushed by an emission attack or a projectile, as the layer would be pushed back very far towards his body; not to mention vs. Netero. But then he might not use it when fighting high-level opponents.

The dialogue said Hisoka got entangled in his own gum and had to make it disappear. From the translation it sounds like the fight went something like this:

Gotoh shoots coins
Hisoka reflects them back with the gum
Gotoh shoots the coins at the reflected coins, which pushes the gum back too.

After some undisclosed number of rounds, Hisoka was in danger of getting entangled by his own gum so he canceled the ability.

Based on the final scene I don't see how Hisoka's ability got him any upper hand. There has to be a point above Gotoh that Hisoka could've been hidden anyway since the gum has to be attached to something above Gotoh for Hisoka to pull that spiderman stunt.

[Host Samurai]

Based on the final scene I don't see how Hisoka's ability got him any upper hand. There has to be a point above Gotoh that Hisoka could've been hidden anyway since the gum has to be attached to something above Gotoh for Hisoka to pull that spiderman stunt.

Just read the chapter and you'll know the answer to it. I don't want to spoil you so just click on the link in my previous post.

[LoS]

Seems like Gotoh held his own as far as Nen is concerned. It appears he didn't have enough "power" to penetrate Hisoka's nen net though.

Hisoka just dominated him in fighting ability, he used his speed and agility to outpace Gotoh, and hid himself well in his surroundings. Not necessarily a "nen" battle per-se, but Hisoka's killing ability was just leagues ahead of Gotoh it seemed.

[devilitachi]

To be honest after the Ant arc power fights. These fights seem childish :p Doesn't anybody else feel the same? It's like Shamo after the chinese arc.

[Popo]

So goto was a nen user? For me that was a surprising development, I always assumed he could not use nen and neither could the other butlers (with the exception of the old lady).
Seaquant, one of the Zoldyck janitors, was originally a professional Blacklist Hunter. He tried to storm the Zoldyck estate with 100 of his finest men and they all were wiped out by Canary--a butler apprentice. So if Canary (likely) knows how to use Nen as an apprentice, Gotoh was likely leagues above her.

Basically, they're all screwed.

[Phantron]

Just read the chapter and you'll know the answer to it. I don't want to spoil you so just click on the link of my previous post.

I checked the manga. It looks like the attack was only there to create a distraction on Gotoh and it's still Hisoka's physical ability/stealth that was responsible for the kill. For example the attack could've been just Hisoka's standard card barrage and it looks like it'd still be enough to create the opening he needed.

Looking at the damage Hisoka sustained against Razor, it'd seem like Hisoka can only safely reflect attacks that he can guard normally. If it's an attack he cannot guard normally (i.e. Razor's), he'd take damage while reflecting it too.

[Host Samurai]

To be honest after the Ant arc power fights. These fights seem childish :p Doesn't anybody else feel the same? It's like Shamo after the chinese arc.

I still got the same dynamic feeling, when reading the chapter. And watching how well Hisoka used his surroundings to kill Gotoh just proved that he is indeed a veteran killer whereas Gotoh was inexperienced in that department. I'm really looking forward to what Illumi has to offer.

[Phantron]

To be honest after the Ant arc power fights. These fights seem childish :p Doesn't anybody else feel the same? It's like Shamo after the chinese arc.

During the Spider arc, Killua said, "Just imagined there are 2 Hisokas there (referring to Machi + Nobunaga).

Now it should be something like "Just imagine there's 1/3 of Pitou there."

[Host Samurai]

I checked the manga. It looks like the attack was only there to create a distraction on Gotoh and it's still Hisoka's physical ability/stealth that was responsible for the kill. For example the attack could've been just Hisoka's standard card barrage and it looks like it'd still be enough to create the opening he needed.

Looking at the damage Hisoka sustained against Razor, it'd seem like Hisoka can only safely reflect attacks that he can guard normally. If it's an attack he cannot guard normally (i.e. Razor's), he'd take damage while reflecting it too.

Knowing Hisoka's personality he probably judged every single one of them beforehand. Since he wasn't 'excited' he killed Gotoh off as fast as he could. And the fact that he used his own coins as distraction, why he didn't pay attention to the slightest change in his surrouding further points my previous statement that Gotoh wasn't experienced fighter due to his profession, which was being a butler in the Zoldyck estate.

[Phantron]

Knowing Hisoka's personality he probably judged every single one of them beforehand. Since he wasn't 'excited' he killed Gotoh off as fast as he could. And the fact that he used his own coins as distraction, why he didn't pay attention to the slightest change in his surrouding further points my previous statement that Gotoh wasn't experienced fighter due to his profession, which was being a butler in the Zoldyck estate.

Hisoka isn't exactly a human scouter like Knuckles is, though it'd be safe to assume he can tell these guys ought to be weaker than him.

HXH puts a pretty significant difference between:

1. Training.
2. Fighting in controlled environments.
3. Fighting to the death.

Obviously Hisoka is a master in all 3, while it's hard to see Gotoh even having much exposure to #2 let alone #3.

[devilitachi]

During the Spider arc, Killua said, "Just imagined there are 2 Hisokas there (referring to Machi + Nobunaga).

Now it should be something like "Just imagine there's 1/3 of Pitou there."

Exactly. I'm not in any way saying hunterxhunter is getting worst, it's story is awesome as it has always been. Thank god it didn't undergo what Shamo did. But still would have liked Killua one shotting Hisoka and Illumi( You know the typical shounen power up after a super villian arc :P) But that's unrealistic.

[Phantron]

Exactly. I'm not in any way saying hunterxhunter is getting worst, it's story is awesome as it has always been. Thank god it didn't undergo what Shamo did. But still would have liked Killua one shotting Hisoka and Illumi( You know the typical shounen power up after a super villian arc :P) But that's unrealistic.

Tsubone says Killua is comparable to Ilumi at this point.

Keep in mind Killua is fighting with a rather large penalty compared to all other characters. He's basically someone who's trained all his life on how to kill people and now he's pretty much trying to get through life without killing anybody, so he could be fighting well below his power level compared to the Ant arc.

[devilitachi]

Tsubone says Killua is comparable to Ilumi at this point.

Keep in mind Killua is fighting with a rather large penalty compared to all other characters. He's basically someone who's trained all his life on how to kill people and now he's pretty much trying to get through life without killing anybody, so he could be fighting well below his power level compared to the Ant arc.

That's interesting. But I mean one shotting!! You know like one attack and both Hisoka and Illumi are dead! Haha that would be funny.

[Phantron]

That's interesting. But I mean one shotting!! You know like one attack and both Hisoka and Illumi are dead! Haha that would be funny.

I don't see why he couldn't use his speed and snap their neck in one hit. If you can't react to Killua's speed (which is described as ridiculously fast even by Royals) then you should die in one hit if he goes for a weak spot. He won't do it because he's not into killing people anymore, but he should be able to do it.

When the Spiders fought the grunt Ants, the grunts were able to take considerable damage and the Spiders have to use some relatively big moves to punch through their defense, but Killua was able to snap the neck of grunts instantly. I assume this is because it takes much less power to snap someone's neck compared to punch through their physical defense for a kill, so applied this back to humans, Killua should be able to kill just about anyone if he wanted to. Note that this doesn't mean he can beat anyone in a fight if he's not attempting to kill.

---------- Post added at 04:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 PM ----------

Here's the kind of moves Killua did in the Ant arc, where he's clearly in an 'assassin mode ON' deal.

Snapped necks of many Ants.
Ripped heads off of many Ants.
Hit two Ants in the face with his adamantium yoyo and blow their head off
Clawed half of Pufu clone's face off and vaporized it.

Any of these moves on a human character would be pretty much instant kill even if there's a considerable strength difference between the two. Even in the case of the yoyo, I'd think getting hit by a super heavy object on the face is most likely going to knock you out even if you're considerable stronger than Killua. You're not going to defend against having your head ripped out by reinforcing your neck at the human level. Thus all Killua's killing moves are one hit kills if they connect, and given his speed there really doesn't look like anything's stopping him from doing that besides his conscience.

But without those one-hit kill moves, Killua isn't really that strong. HXH characters can withstand a huge amount of physical punishment, after all.

[Federicoxxx]

hahaha seems hisoka get f**** tired to play with coins

wants some change?..

ok i l change your head... i l take it out of your body .. do you like it? XD XD XD

still.. gotoh did it really well.. 90% of hisoka fight last like.. 3 seconds

when he ..fight seriously (and we dont even see him fight at full power since HxH started)

probably it was goin to be. .against kuro...at that place..but since.. kuro was unable to fight..

it was cancelled.... shiit......

and netero..wasnt interested at all... on the first chaps of the manga..


they last lot more...when he plays with...his toys like Gon...

Again...is so sad being so powerful..and have so few.. opponents..worthy of you...

Tsubone vs Hisoka.. i think could be more interesting..
if IT HAPPEN...

[Shamy]

Finally, full raw scan out on MangaHead http://mangahead.com/Manga-Raw-Scan/Hunter-x-Hunter/Hunter-x-Hunter-327-Raw-Scan

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8242/58414162.jpg (http://mangahead.com/)

[ish3]

New chapter is out.

http://m.mangastream.com/mobile/read/default/44614653/1

[LoS]

Kinda obvious in hindsight, but Gotho's fighting ability where he shoots out his coins from around waist height completely leaves his upperbody unguarded.

[Netero]

R.I.P. Gotoh

[Hamy]

As usual Hisoka really kicks ass! Have to say though I'll miss Gotoh but more importantly about his death is that he was at Killua's side and only he noticed so far among the butlers that there is most likely someone supporting Illumi from among them. Thus, the whole fiasco with Killua only gets more complicated as he's lost someone from his side who could negotiate for the family on his behalf that the conditions set upon him are still in tact along with the one most likely to figure out who the traitor is. Still can't emphasize enough how entertaining Hisoka's fights are~ At least we learned one form of weakness for the bungee gum, namely rotation could screw him over.

On a lighter side though it seems Tsubone likes Killua so we could at least eliminate her from the list of possible traitor/Illumi supporter (she even mentions disliking him anyways). Leaving us to only two butlers Canary and Amane - yet it seems too obvious to be Amane so right now I'll stick to the unexpected and believe that Cannary somehow is the one that betrayed Killua (we'll probably find out her reasons).

[Lestat]

I wonder where Tsubone got the info about Killua's hatsu. And according to her Killua will not lose to Illumi. Does she mean in a one-on-one fight? or Killua will just prevent Illumi from killing Alluka, thus he wins?

[Phantron]

Tsubone is obviously the 'bad cop' character when it comes to dealing with Killua.

The traitor can only be Gotoh or Kalluto at this point. If it's Amane it's pointless (Killua never trusted her to begin with). If it's Canary that'd mean she lied to herself in her thought bubble and that's ridiculously bad story telling if you can't trust what the characters think about themselves. Gotoh, from the phone call, seems to suggest he's not as loyal as he appears. Another good candidate would be Kalluto, who we know is jealous of Alluka to begin with, and he appears to have an ability that can discern what ability someone may have (otherwise he can't fight the aura remover, no way you can tell that by just watching someone). Note that Tsubone said if she didn't know about the lightning speed she'd have lost Killua for sure. How could she possibly know this? Killua never used this ability in front of any of the Zs. I'd say the traitor is more likely Kalluto since his powers would fit and he has the right motives, i.e. backstab Alluka to get Killua back.

---------- Post added at 12:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------


I wonder where Tsubone got the info about Killua's hatsu. And according to her Killua will not lose to Illumi. Does she mean in a one-on-one fight? or Killua will just prevent Illumi from killing Alluka, thus he wins?

I'd think Kalluto has to be involved. He was able to find out who the aura remover was, and this isn't something you can do by just observing, so he must have some power that tells you what kind of power a particular person has.

It'd be harder to prevent Ilumi from killing Alluka, who has no fighting ability whatsoever, then to beat Ilumi 1on1. Pitou didn't want to fight Gon after Komugi was healed since it'd be too risky, and it's said multiple times that the Royals are way stronger than all the guys not including Netero put together.

[exacta]

Noooooooo! Gotoh was such a cool character.....he was so nice to Killua and Gon back in the Zoldyck Estate Arc. I knew from the moment Hisoka appeared before them that someone was probably screwed....but I'll admit watching Gotoh hold his own for a bit gave me hope that he might make it out alive. He got decapitated too......not the most graceful way to go.

Fights like these are why HxH is so awesome though. This arc is exactly the kind of story I wanted to see Togashi write after having to wait for the Chimera Ant arc to end. It's very interesting and involves alot of important characters. Felt so refreshing to watch Hisoka fight again too.

I have a feeling Tsubone is going to be very strong. Looking forward to seeing that.

[ashher]

Ahh a hisoka fight...lovely as always. Loved his riddle this chapter. I hope we get to see how he takes out the other guards too, specially tsuone.

[Airget]

Seeing the bigger picture, it doesn't look like his head has decapitated yet so perhaps he could stay alive if he knows of a way to stop the bleeding. Granted it looks like he was hit around his whole neck so the major arteries that carry blood to the brain are disconnected but you never know. It sounds odd, but if he does die, I wonder if he'll try and plea to keep Killua safe lol. It still strikes me odd, while yes he has a bloodthirsty persona, what does he gain by killing the butlers if he wants Gon to live. It would be an interesting twist if perhaps Illumi managed to put a needle into Hisoka's head to convince him to kill the butlers since I would imagine it may be against the rules to kill a Butler. Also we didn't even see Illumi at all this chapter so while we appear to get the idea of this being Hisoka's idea it's very possible that Illumi made him do it.

[exsoldier001]

Ironic, Gotoh lost to his own advice and game.

reminds me of his coin game with gon and apparently he cant see the real coin(hisoka) above him.LOL

and his advice to gon telling things may not be as what is seen to be...(Hisoka throwing cards initially was the least suspected movement)

and finally, Gotoh being a traitor actually logical as he reminded gon not to trust things that is obvious.

Togashi planned for his death accordingly.

[Phantron]

Well we probably shouldn't question Gotoh's loyalty to Killua. However that doesn't mean he values the same thing Killua does. It is entirely possible Gotoh decides that risking Killua's life for either Gon or Alluka is not worth it. I think he's only pretending to be helpful but he's saying stuff Killua almost certainly would've figured out eventually anyway (i.e. Ilumi's trying to kill Alluka, don't get separated from Alluka) and he was planning on letting Alluka get killed, since if Alluka dies, then Killua is no longer in danger and none of the surveilience levels matters anymore either.

[ashher]

Seeing the bigger picture, it doesn't look like his head has decapitated yet so perhaps he could stay alive if he knows of a way to stop the bleeding. Granted it looks like he was hit around his whole neck so the major arteries that carry blood to the brain are disconnected but you never know. It sounds odd, but if he does die, I wonder if he'll try and plea to keep Killua safe lol. It still strikes me odd, while yes he has a bloodthirsty persona, what does he gain by killing the butlers if he wants Gon to live. It would be an interesting twist if perhaps Illumi managed to put a needle into Hisoka's head to convince him to kill the butlers since I would imagine it may be against the rules to kill a Butler. Also we didn't even see Illumi at all this chapter so while we appear to get the idea of this being Hisoka's idea it's very possible that Illumi made him do it.

Hisoka being Illlumi's bitch...no way,man, its just a no-no.

Hisoka certainly gains something if he kills the butlers. If hisoka didn't kill those bulters, illumi could find another way. That way hisoka won't have any chance to influence the outcome of this three way contest. Now hisoka can remain a very much factor in it, without even alarming Illumi...as he apparently is doing all that illumi asked him to do. Keeping a low profile, keeping in a close low profile position to affect the outcome any time...hisoka has nothing to lose at the moment.

---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------


Ironic, Gotoh lost to his own advice and game.

reminds me of his coin game with gon and apparently he cant see the real coin(hisoka) above him.LOL

and his advice to gon telling things may not be as what is seen to be...(Hisoka throwing cards initially was the least suspected movement)

and finally, Gotoh being a traitor actually logical as he reminded gon not to trust things that is obvious.

Togashi planned for his death accordingly.

Why would you say Gotoh is a traitor? He only just figured out there must be one in this chapter...if he were traitor, togashi could've easily gave that particular bit of 'thinking panels' to either of the two girl bodyguards, specially the one with tsubone.

[exsoldier001]

well traitor may be a harsh word, but more like the informer.

in this situation, gotoh is doing his job, to incorporate any new in regards of killua to the family members, and chances that illumi had actually jab few pins inside his head is not remotely imposible at all.

[BurnSchulz]

I hope someone can figure a sensefull translation to the Hisoka Killing Pun... i mean because it basicly means "Death" wich is also 4 the same time... it doenst have to be kept 4 when another Number could men something wich is related to "Death" or "Kill" as well.

Maybe a Pun with "6 Feet under" or, what just came into my mind:
"What is on the Backside of the last Penny Coin you throw at me? -
Your Head!" (Because Pennys used to have Heads of certain Politics or Royals on the backside)

Someone has to be creative to make something that isnt a 1 to 1 translation but would also make sense and fit the Situation.

Its just more fun to read something that fits in his language, than to read senseles bullshit and a very long explaination to it...
I always find myself at moments like this hating my own language... *sigh*
But it shouldnt be like this if there were smart people responsible for a translation for puns that would actually fit.

"One, Two, Three fo(u)r Death!"

[Phantron]

I noticed Killua's lightning power got downgraded from a god-tier ability to 'something you can handle if you know about it', despite the fact that knowing his ability is the same as knowing 'this guy is really fast' and 'if he hits you you're probably dead' (if you don't have lightning resistance) which really isn't useful at all. I guess it's necessary for the fights to be balanced, but really Killua's power should've been on par with the Royal Guards/Netero in terms of counterabilty, i.e. nearly zero. You can know what abilities Netero or the Royal Guards have and it really doesn't do you any good because there's nothing you can do about them.

[kkck]

Interesting chapter to say the least, perhaps one of the funner nen fights we have seen recently.

First thing to comment on is the third person following killua. It does not seem to be anyone we know of right? At least it does not seem to be illume based on the eye shape. More so, this person is capable of keeping up to some degree with killua's speed, it has to be someone remarkable.

The fight between gotou and hisoka was awesome although the result was expected. Kinda sad he died, he was a cool character who was not completely a psychopath. It seems his coins did not have any special abilities to speak of so he apparently was a reinforcer who used his coins as weapons. No manipulation whatsoever it appears. Coins are a very interesting weapon, I would not have expected that for the most part and he even had some very creative uses for them. Good chapter overall.

[Phantron]

Interesting chapter to say the least, perhaps one of the funner nen fights we have seen recently.

First thing to comment on is the third person following killua. It does not seem to be anyone we know of right? At least it does not seem to be illume based on the eye shape. More so, this person is capable of keeping up to some degree with killua's speed, it has to be someone remarkable.

The fight between gotou and hisoka was awesome although the result was expected. Kinda sad he died, he was a cool character who was not completely a psychopath. It seems his coins did not have any special abilities to speak of so he apparently was a reinforcer who used his coins as weapons. No manipulation whatsoever it appears. Coins are a very interesting weapon, I would not have expected that for the most part and he even had some very creative uses for them. Good chapter overall.

When Gotoh puts a spin on his coins it was obviously delayed long enough for them to stick on the gum first so I assume some degree of Manipulation was involved. It's probably mostly based on Reinforcement but I think the delayed aspect implies some level of Manipulation power.

[erhanboran]

Interesting chapter to say the least, perhaps one of the funner nen fights we have seen recently.

First thing to comment on is the third person following killua. It does not seem to be anyone we know of right? At least it does not seem to be illume based on the eye shape. More so, this person is capable of keeping up to some degree with killua's speed, it has to be someone remarkable.



Kalluto? And he(she?) doesnt need to really "following" him, he can just use the paper doll then inform tsubome about Killua movement.

Anyway, awesome chapter. Togashi-sensei has no mercy >__<.

[kkck]

When Gotoh puts a spin on his coins it was obviously delayed long enough for them to stick on the gum first so I assume some degree of Manipulation was involved. It's probably mostly based on Reinforcement but I think the delayed aspect implies some level of Manipulation power.
The attack was never said to be delayed, it was said to be slower. I don't think it would make a lot of sense to use manipulation to make an attack slower lol(its much simpler to simply not throw them as fast) There really is no benefit to him making the coins slower under any scenario, it would actually make more sense to fire them at greater speed. If gotou could use maximum rotation and maximum speed I would argue he would do that.

---------- Post added at 01:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 AM ----------


Kalluto? And he(she?) doesnt need to really "following" him, he can just use the paper doll then inform tsubome about Killua movement.

Anyway, awesome chapter. Togashi-sensei has no mercy >__<.

Interesting idea. More so kalluto seems to have interesting tracking abilities so she would be ideal as an informant to illumi. Does she really want alluka dead though? She might be jealous of killua prefering alluka perhaps....

[Phantron]

The attack was never said to be delayed, it was said to be slower. I don't think it would make a lot of sense to use manipulation to make an attack slower lol(its much simpler to simply not throw them as fast) There really is no benefit to him making the coins slower under any scenario, it would actually make more sense to fire them at greater speed. If gotou could use maximum rotation and maximum speed I would argue he would do that.

---------- Post added at 01:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 AM ----------



Interesting idea. More so kalluto seems to have interesting tracking abilities so she would be ideal as an informant to illumi. Does she really want alluka dead though? She might be jealous of killua prefering alluka perhaps....

Seems like it'd be hard for the coins to move in a straight line if they've some kind of crazy spin on them, though to be fair not everything has to be physically correct in HXH either.

The relationship chart flat out says Kalluto is jealous of Alluka. Way back Kalluto said he'll try to get his brother back, no matter how long it took. When you put the two together it's pretty clear that Kalluto is jealous of Alluka because Killua likes her.

[Lestat]

Tsubone is obviously the 'bad cop' character when it comes to dealing with Killua.

The traitor can only be Gotoh or Kalluto at this point. If it's Amane it's pointless (Killua never trusted her to begin with). If it's Canary that'd mean she lied to herself in her thought bubble and that's ridiculously bad story telling if you can't trust what the characters think about themselves. Gotoh, from the phone call, seems to suggest he's not as loyal as he appears. Another good candidate would be Kalluto, who we know is jealous of Alluka to begin with, and he appears to have an ability that can discern what ability someone may have (otherwise he can't fight the aura remover, no way you can tell that by just watching someone). Note that Tsubone said if she didn't know about the lightning speed she'd have lost Killua for sure. How could she possibly know this? Killua never used this ability in front of any of the Zs. I'd say the traitor is more likely Kalluto since his powers would fit and he has the right motives, i.e. backstab Alluka to get Killua back.

That will be dumb if the traitor is Gotoh. He died for the sake of the person he backstabbed? Unless he's not dead(highly unlikely) and this is all an eleborate scheme by Illumi and Gotoh, It just don't make sense his death by Hisoka's hand if he's the traitor.


I'd think Kalluto has to be involved. He was able to find out who the aura remover was, and this isn't something you can do by just observing, so he must have some power that tells you what kind of power a particular person has.

If he does have that kind of power that's pretty hax. Considering that even Nen monsters like the spiders prioritize the secrecy of their abilities to the point of hiding it to their own comrades . Another hax ability from a Zaoldyck. It could also be Zeno, remember he correctly deduced the ability of Kuroro.


It'd be harder to prevent Ilumi from killing Alluka, who has no fighting ability whatsoever, then to beat Ilumi 1on1. Pitou didn't want to fight Gon after Komugi was healed since it'd be too risky, and it's said multiple times that the Royals are way stronger than all the guys not including Netero put together.

Well Killua said that he and Alluka will always be together thus guarding her from Illumi. And Pitou doesnt want to engaged Gon on a battle is because Komugi was taken as a hostage. The King ordered him to take care of Komugi and he will not disobey the King.

[Ero-Sanji]

So, Gotoh was a reinforcer with a touch of manipulation, that's awesome.
I really enjoyed this battle, it had intelligence and great art as well! It seems to me that Hisoka will be killing them off one by one until he reaches Alluka, but the question is whether Illumi will make his move or just leave everything to Hisoka. At the moment Canary is far too weak to be dealing with the likes of Hisoka but the new kid seem to have some special ability that probably won't be able to defeat Hisoka but delay him for a while. Granny nanny seem to be very strong and with great experience, amazing that she kept up with Killua.

[Phantron]

That will be dumb if the traitor is Gotoh. He died for the sake of the person he backstabbed? Unless he's not dead(highly unlikely) and this is all an eleborate scheme by Illumi and Gotoh, It just don't make sense his death by Hisoka's hand if he's the traitor.



If he does have that kind of power that's pretty hax. Considering that even Nen monsters like the spiders prioritize the secrecy of their abilities to the point of hiding it to their own comrades . Another hax ability from a Zaoldyck. It could also be Zeno, remember he correctly deduced the ability of Kuroro.

Well like someone else posted traitor might not be the best word. I'm sure he's loyal to Killua but he might not think risking Killua's life for Alluka or Gon is a good idea. Since the Zs don't kill each other (minus Alluka), he could figure he can try to be a deadweight and get Alluka killed, and even if he dies, I don't think he minds if it means Alluka dies too, since if Alluka died, then Killua will be safe for sure (Ilumi has no reason to kill him at all with Alluka gone). I don't doubt he is willing to die for Killua, but I see no indication to believe he agrees with everything Killua is doing.

Killua has never used his ability in front of his family. You can't deduce an ability from absolutely nothing. Zeno only deduced that to steal an ability you'd need 4-5 conditions. He couldn't figure what they are, just that there must be about that many of them for an ability of that power. At any rate, Kalluto figured out who was the aura remover, and that's essentially a guy wearing a cloak the whole time. It can't be just spying or experience because it's hard to imagine an aura remover will talk about his ability for no reason. It's a pretty uber ability but I think it's on par with Palm's ability to see someone no matter where they are after she saw them once.

[exsoldier001]

hisoka didnt mind ppl knowing his ability.

[Foreva]

If he does have that kind of power that's pretty hax. Considering that even Nen monsters like the spiders prioritize the secrecy of their abilities to the point of hiding it to their own comrades . Another hax ability from a Zaoldyck. It could also be Zeno, remember he correctly deduced the ability of Kuroro.
As a Manipulator, his ability doesn't have to be hax to make him an expert in gathering secret information. For example, to find the Exorcist on Greed Island, he could just scatter confetti over the whole island and give them specific orders such as "If the words 'Nen, remove, Exorcist' are said within a radius of 20 m of this piece of paper, let me know immediately." or something like that.

[Lestat]

hisoka didnt mind ppl knowing his ability.
That's not completely true. He doesnt mind about the Bungee gum but hes secretive about the deceitful texture.

As a Manipulator, his ability doesn't have to be hax to make him an expert in gathering secret information. For example, to find the Exorcist on Greed Island, he could just scatter confetti over the whole island and give them specific orders such as "If the words 'Nen, remove, Exorcist' are said within a radius of 20 m of this piece of paper, let me know immediately." or something like that.
lol 20m radius by each confetti is super hax considering a nen master's en is atleast 50 m. now imagine thousands of confetti that can detect nen users within 20m radius

[LoS]

Who's Gotoh communicating with on the Phone anyway?

Also, who is the eye peeking in on Killua that he notices? He says either Illumi or Tsubone, but how did either catch up? It would be interesting if it was a 3rd unnamed/surprise character.

[Phantron]

As a Manipulator, his ability doesn't have to be hax to make him an expert in gathering secret information. For example, to find the Exorcist on Greed Island, he could just scatter confetti over the whole island and give them specific orders such as "If the words 'Nen, remove, Exorcist' are said within a radius of 20 m of this piece of paper, let me know immediately." or something like that.

That wouldn't be enough. When Abegane removed the aura he was only chanting some mythical stuff. Given how valuable such ability are, it'd make sense people normally would never talk about it since if people know you've such an ability, you could get a lot of unwanted attention.

[ashher]

Which side is hisoka gonna take ultimately? I want him to meet with killua, and after hearing his plan side with him. It'll be great if we get to see a fight between him and illumi.

[Foreva]

That's not completely true. He doesnt mind about the Bungee gum but hes secretive about the deceitful texture.

lol 20m radius by each confetti is super hax considering a nen master's en is atleast 50 m. now imagine thousands of confetti that can detect nen users within 20m radius
En is a different thing which is not to be confused with remotely manipulating objects. During the Chimera Ant arc, Morel, a manipulator, could put a whole capital city under watch using his manipulated Smoke Troopers. There would be no problem for Kalluto to do the same with confetti on Greed Island.

But what Phantron wrote makes sense. Being able to overhear other people alone should not have been enough to find Abengane.

[Lestat]

En is a different thing which is not to be confused with remotely manipulating objects. During the Chimera Ant arc, Morel, a manipulator, could put a whole capital city under watch using his manipulated Smoke Troopers. There would be no problem for Kalluto to do the same with confetti on Greed Island.

But what Phantron wrote makes sense. Being able to overhear other people alone should not have been enough to find Abengane.

That's why its hax right? and I only mention en because of your example of confetti's that can detect nen users within 20 meters, that functions almost like En. See if an ability can grant en with 20m range to thousands of piece of paper then thats pretty hax. Anyway as mentioned that will not be enough to find Abengane.

[mr.danly]

god hisoka's a badass. he looks downright demonic in this top panel: http://mangastream.com/read/hunter_x_hunter/44614653/9

a true shinigami.... god of death. Ichigo, take notes.

[Foreva]

That's why its hax right? and I only mention en because of your example of confetti's that can detect nen users within 20 meters, that functions almost like En. See if an ability can grant en with 20m range to thousands of piece of paper then thats pretty hax. Anyway as mentiones that will not be enough to find Abengane.
No, it's not hax. What the paper pieces do is detect the words said, not the Nen of the speakers.

[tobeulp]

Awesome chapter other than Hisoka being a death god this also make this chapter awesome http://mangastream.com/read/hunter_x_hunter/44614653/6 love how Alluka smiles like that ^^

[Hamy]

The attack was never said to be delayed, it was said to be slower. I don't think it would make a lot of sense to use manipulation to make an attack slower lol(its much simpler to simply not throw them as fast) There really is no benefit to him making the coins slower under any scenario, it would actually make more sense to fire them at greater speed. If gotou could use maximum rotation and maximum speed I would argue he would do that.

---------- Post added at 01:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 AM ----------



Interesting idea. More so kalluto seems to have interesting tracking abilities so she would be ideal as an informant to illumi. Does she really want alluka dead though? She might be jealous of killua prefering alluka perhaps....

Actually for the coins they were definitely slowed down for the purpose of Hisoka capturing them all, so as to maximize the amount of rotation that could be done. The match is really quite fun since we see how both sides take advantage of one another's ability. Also another thing I love is how the fight isn't dragged on~ Its short and sweet!

Also I do not think his head was left unguarded because of his fighting style but looking at the panel:
http://www.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/327/18
http://www.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/327/19
The coins were all aimed at the lower portion leaving Gotoh pre-occupied taking them all down for Hisoka to strike him at the head area. Meaning irregardless of where he defends bottom or top part he's dead either way.

Hm never thought there would be another unidentified person I guess Kalluto is a likely candidate and it would technically work with what Tsubone said - she makes no mention of disliking Kalluto just the two older siblings so possible for her to take his side or work with him.

[Phantron]

No, it's not hax. What the paper pieces do is detect the words said, not the Nen of the speakers.

Wide area detection abilities aren't exactly difficult to get in HXH. The 'E' girls can detect anyone entering GI and that's a radius far bigger than any En can cover (it's at least 20km between two cities in GI). So Kalluto certainly can overheard a lot of things, but no aura remover is going to say, "Self, I can remove aura. Isn't that an awesome ability?" It'd seem like he has to have some ability that can scan a target and discern what ability they might have. I'd assume this is the same way Tsubone figured out what ability Killua has, because again Killua has never revealed his ability to his family and it'd be impossible to deduce something like that with just surveilence or experience.

[Lestat]

No, it's not hax. What the paper pieces do is detect the words said, not the Nen of the speakers.
So its more hax because it can be more specific? Lol Pitou's En is pretty hax right? So line up thousands of confettis with range 0f 20m that will cover let's say 10 miles of radius or even more. Then you can be more specific on what you want to find. That's hax in my book.

[Phantron]

Actually for the coins they were definitely slowed down for the purpose of Hisoka capturing them all, so as to maximize the amount of rotation that could be done. The match is really quite fun since we see how both sides take advantage of one another's ability. Also another thing I love is how the fight isn't dragged on~ Its short and sweet!

Hm never thought there would be another unidentified person I guess Kalluto is a likely candidate and it would technically work with what Tsubone said - she makes no mention of disliking Kalluto just the two older siblings so possible for her to take his side or work with him.

I got the feeling that Tsubone is more like working against Alluka rather than for anyone, just because Alluka is too dangerous. She clearly is supportive of Killua, and it's not unreasonable to want Killua to have absolutely nothing to do with Alluka.

[Federicoxxx]

HISOKA IS JUST AMAZING..such a beutiful use of bunge bubblegum....

i wonder if can be used DIRECTLY over some enemy neck like to break it

like some kind of rope of..just with pure aura...

i think it can be used that way... it was just never used .on ´people this way

except by ...attach it...to people and move it the way you want...

this happen when you try to fight such INCREIDBLE KILLER with pocket change..

i dont think he lost his head.. but pretty much his troath was sliced badly

love how togashi is drawing illumi and hisoka in SUCH A BADASSWAY!

with muscular defined arms..with several shades on thems...so awesome

[Phantron]

So its more hax because it can be more specific? Lol Pitou's En is pretty hax right? So line up thousands of confettis with range 0f 20m that will cover let's say 10 miles of radius or even more. Then you can be more specific on what you want to find. That's hax in my book.

I don't think Kalluto can specify a particular word to listen to. They seem to function just like hidden microphones so he has to process everything his confetti overheard to make sense of it. So if you have a thousand of those out, chances are you'll just be drowned in so much noise that you'll never be able to discern anything useful.

[Foreva]

@Lestat:
Yes, hax in your book, but not in HxH book, the 2 books are not the same. Manipulators experts such as Morel, Pitou and Flutter (the dragonfly ant) did it various time. Re-read the manga please.

[Phantron]

I think people forget that HXH is a very technologically advanced world. For example, you could develop some super awesome spying technique to see another guy without being near, or you can just use hidden cameras. Hisoka used a GPS to find his way back to the Hunter exam after being lost in the fog. Could he used some say some combination of En and other stuff to find his way through the fog? Probably, but why bother when you can use a GPS? It'd be weird if things that can be accomplished by just survilence cameras/microphones are actually hard to replicate via aura.

[Lestat]

@Lestat:
Yes, hax in your book, but not in HxH book, the 2 books are not the same. Manipulators experts such as Morel, Pitou and Flutter (the dragonfly ant) did it various time. Re-read the manga please.
Lol you should reread the manga not me. Pitou's En will dwarf in comparison on your ability. Lets say he line up 1000 confettis on 10x100 formation and each range will not overlapped each other. Do you know how big of an area that its 200x2000 meters. Thats 400 sq Km approximately 154 sq miles. Pitou's En can only reach less 2miles. And you even said that Kalluto can be even more specific in what to find?


I think people forget that HXH is a very technologically advanced world. For example, you could develop some super awesome spying technique to see another guy without being near, or you can just use hidden cameras. Hisoka used a GPS to find his way back to the Hunter exam after being lost in the fog. Could he used some say some combination of En and other stuff to find his way through the fog? Probably, but why bother when you can use a GPS? It'd be weird if things that can be accomplished by just survilence cameras/microphones are actually hard to replicate via aura.
I believe no one here is saying that this things cant be replicated by aura. Considering there's an existing Genie in HxH world what more a walking satellite. It would be hax of an ability but its doable ofcourse.

[Foreva]

What are you talking about? En is not the same thing as manipulating. Pitou's dolls can cover the whole capital city Peijin. The same goes for Morel's smoke troopers and Flutter's dragonflies. Using confetti to overhear other people is much easier than what Pitou and Morel did with their dolls. As I said, re-read please, what you wrote is riddled with misinformation.

[Lestat]

What are you talking about? En is not the same thing as manipulating. Pitou's dolls can cover the whole capital city Peijin. The same goes for Morel's smoke troopers and Flutter's dragonflies. Using confetti to overhear other people is much easier than what Pitou and Morel did with their dolls. As I said, re-read please, what you wrote is riddled with misinformation.

Lol your saying earlier that these confettis will function in accordance to specific orders. Now your chaging your tune and saying that it will only overhear other people. Made up your mind sir. And I'm not saying its En. It functions like En in a sense that it detects everything in its range. That in range and function it will dwarf other hax abilities then it is hax. And can you link me with that Doll ability of Pitou.

Anyways to each his own then. The current discussion might be offtopic. Lets leave it at that and agree to disagree.

[ksfst]

I came to this thread expecting to discuss the new chapter (since it's just has been released by mangastream) and what do I found?? A discussion about what ability is 'hax' or not. Not only I'm annoyed by the fact this is off topic, I'm annoyed people still discuss about this on a Hunter X Hunter thread. Making assumptions and creating scenarios to show how an ability is supposedly better than another, please, let Togashi handle his manga (since he does it pretty damn well) and decide what's better/stronger and what's not and stop this non sense.

This last chapter showed a little more about Hisoka ability and fighting capacity and that was cool, the way Togashi handled his fight against Gotoh was great, it was concise, and I'm glad by that, would hate to see a 'minor' fight dragged for more than a chapter when we got so much going on, would be a waste IMO.
I hope we get a peak of the elections next chapter together with some more Killua/Alluka development.
I'm waiting for Killua's fight against Illumi (tho I don't think it'll happen as soon as I want).

[OscarTard]

Canary's hair looks like jumbo fried shrimp or shrimp cocktail.
I don't think Tsubone could keep up with Godspeed. Being informed (about Killua's ability or his whereabouts), she was able to anticipate few things and intersect Killua's route for a brief moment. Just my interpretation. After Killua stopped, he sensed the presence of someone nearby, and possibly watching. I don't think is it Tsubone because she was lagging behind and Killua noticed. I don't think illumi caught up so fast. If it is Kalluto, don't you think an assassin ought to know how to hide his presence. He did demonstrate perfect as well zetsu. Maybe the hugging and sweet talk between Killua and alluka provoke jealousy, which gave Kalluto away haha.
ooo Hisoka used bungee gum on his feet to add friction. Everything got a bit confusing after he got entangled by those coins. So he didn't release those coins but only the nen on his feet? Maybe I'll look deeper into it next time. but man is Hisoka arrogant...made it seem like Gotoh held his own a short while. Any why did gotoh think he can beat Hisoka?

[Foreva]

@Lestat:

Change my tune what? Don't twist my words to fit your argument please.

In my 1st post regarding this matter I wrote that the paper pieces would report the specific words said within a certain radius of them. It is fine-tuned overhearing. What on Earth does it have to do with En? You don't even remember the basic concepts of Nen. En detects everything and the user uses up a lot of Nen putting it up whereas the paper is immobile and detects sound only. A Manipulator can manipulate things miles away even if his En is just dozens of meters in range.

Good luck try to argue that Flutter's dragonflies, which can provide visual surveillance over the whole forest/city, or Morel's smoke troopers, which can cover a forest or city and automatically fight back upon seeing certain actions from the enemies, are hax. I'm done arguing with an obtuse uninformed poster like you.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hunter_hunter/v20/c202/7.html

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hunter_hunter/v23/c243/7.html

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hunter_hunter/v23/c244/13.html

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hunter_hunter/v23/c246/8.html

[Lestat]

ONTOPIC:

I believe Hisoka is always depicted as a cunning fighter. If you look at his abilities its not the strongest or the most imaginative of them all. Its pretty simple but he use it to utmost efficiency. Combine it with his god-given talents as a Killer. Only few people can last long in a battle with Hisoka. I'm surprised that Gotoh didn't even land a direct hit. I think not a fitting death for such a cool character.

[Reach]

I don't think Killua will be fighting Illumi while carrying Alluka around, unless Tsubone has agreed to make terms with Killua. This is an awful deal for Tsubone, as that means Alluka will pester her again, and Killua will break his promise to Alluka (not leave her side). Tsubone vs Illumi is much more likely. This is an endurance/survival test for both Killua and Alluka until they reach Gon. Nonetheless, I can't wait to see Illumi's full strength - this is that chance we've never seen before.

The discussion on Hisoka's GPS-like tracking with the butler gang is legit. He does have Illumi with him though, who at least knows of Gotoh's movement. Either way, Hisoka and Illumi moved awfully fast from the top of the mountain all the way downhill in split seconds.

[Phantron]

The official sourcebook gives Hisoka a score of 5 on Ingenuity and while it's not a definitive source, I think it captures the idea pretty well. He isn't the strongest or smartest guy but he can think on his feet as well as anyone else. He also clearly has extremely high physical attribute and most importantly, experience.

However Hisoka has a pretty big weakness in that his tactics are very dangerous. We see Hisoka end up losing an arm or two on a fairly regular basis. In those cases his tactics worked, but what if they did not? What if Kastro just stopped using clones after he took both of Hisoka's arm off? How is Hisoka supposed to beat a Reinforcement user fighting defensively with no arms? Given Hisoka's importance in the story it is almost by necessity that his plot has to always work, because the moment they fail, he'd probably be dead or at least start in a disastrous position. I suspect this is also why Gotoh never land a hit, because based on past history, if Gotoh landed a hit, Hisoka would most likely be down an arm or equivalent just because that's the way he fights, and since he's supposed to be fighting multiple guys in a row that'd make the subsequent combat very unbelieveable.

[Foreva]

@Lestat:
It's only name calling if what I wrote about you was wrong. But you're in fact uninformed and obtuse because you said a Manipulator was hax if he can manipulate things way farther than his range of En, and that manipulating is similar to using En (post #96 and some other posts); and after I gave you textual evidence, you're still insist that you're not wrong.

Proofs can be found in the pages of the manga I listed above.

Sorry, it's you who are guilty of name-calling, not me.

Also, don't twist my words like that. If you have ever read the manga, around chapter 229, you should know what Kalluto's paper can do. Specific orders in the context of that post means reporting whenever specific words are said within a certain radius. Different orders have different words. The paper pieces are not Nen dolls; they don't automatically fly around detecting and identifying things.

[Lestat]

The official sourcebook gives Hisoka a score of 5 on Ingenuity and while it's not a definitive source, I think it captures the idea pretty well. He isn't the strongest or smartest guy but he can think on his feet as well as anyone else. He also clearly has extremely high physical attribute and most importantly, experience.

However Hisoka has a pretty big weakness in that his tactics are very dangerous. We see Hisoka end up losing an arm or two on a fairly regular basis. In those cases his tactics worked, but what if they did not? What if Kastro just stopped using clones after he took both of Hisoka's arm off? How is Hisoka supposed to beat a Reinforcement user fighting defensively with no arms? Given Hisoka's importance in the story it is almost by necessity that his plot has to always work, because the moment they fail, he'd probably be dead or at least start in a disastrous position. I suspect this is also why Gotoh never land a hit, because based on past history, if Gotoh landed a hit, Hisoka would most likely be down an arm or equivalent just because that's the way he fights, and since he's supposed to be fighting multiple guys in a row that'd make the subsequent combat very unbelieveable.

Remember that Machi said that he could have finish the fight without taking that much damage but as you said Hisoka takes more damage than the necessary. I think he just want to watch Machi's Hatsu in action or flirt with her.

[Sachsenhesse]

awesome chapter in showing hisokas fightingcapabilty... i mean his hatsu its just the best thing outa there, its so versatile... now he can speed up like hell thanks to bungeegum on his feet and some gum in the fighting arena... thats a cool fighting and not "rasengan!" =D

also gotoh was better then expected, i mean he was the first one to scew up bungee gum for a while with the rotations, at that time it seems, bungeegum isnt as invincible as we knew, well but then hisoka got me again :/

also if gotoh is that strong, tsubone will be a true monster

[Host Samurai]

Damn you, Hisoka! For being awesome and cunning as ever. He had total control of the fight. I wonder who Gotoh was talking to earlier, I'm pretty sure that it can't be Tsubone due to her chasing after Killua, who is in Godspeed mode. The slightest distraction would make her lose sight of him, so the plausible explanation would be that is indeed a new character.

[Lightmgl]

I would just like to call it right now.... After curing Gon and finding some way to pay the "price" my expectation is that Killua is going to wish for Alluka to remove her own power as it seems like the only possible resolution for him to get what he wants, a normal life for her.

[Goral]

To be honest after the Ant arc power fights. These fights seem childish :p Doesn't anybody else feel the same? It's like Shamo after the chinese arc.
Nope. Current fights are much better since it's more about outsmarting (and I mean outsmarting not pretending to outsmart by using experience in an imaginary game that is supposedly more complicated than go and which can be applied in real battle situation, lol) your opponent rather than being a SSJ and abilities are simple and effective. But what's truly best is that they're not as dragged just to artificially prolong the story. That's why bug-arc is longer than all previous arcs combined.

Do you know how big of an area that its 200x2000 meters. Thats 400 sq Km
If you put it like that it's 0.2 km x 2 km so it's 0.4 sq km. Or not since you forgot to write (meters)^2.

Chapter was great/epic/exquisite/I'm out of words and it's become a standard now. The fight was awesome and Gotoh was impressive despite being defeated by Hisoka so quickly. He had bad luck that Hisoka was in no mood to play with him but was in killer mode instead. As most I'm curious how Tsubone knew about Killua's ability and as many have mentioned it might be Kalluto who knew about it first. Or maybe Illumi's needles are more versatile and he could see or in some other way sense changes in Killua's body.

---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------

BTW, kewl0210 has released his translation: http://mangahelpers.com/t/kewl0210/releases/32409
It's always good to have alternative version to better detect nuances in he story.

[Crude]

Once again Hisoka shows how cool an ability like Bungee Gum can be. Excellent chapter! I love how Togashi handles pacing, and I really hope that he can keep up this string of chapters even longer.

[Tame]

Nope. Current fights are much better since it's more about outsmarting (and I mean outsmarting not pretending to outsmart by using experience in an imaginary game that is supposedly more complicated than go and which can be applied in real battle situation, lol) your opponent rather than being a SSJ and abilities are simple and effective. But what's truly best is that they're not as dragged just to artificially prolong the story. That's why bug-arc is longer than all previous arcs combined.

In terms of neither pages nor chapters was the Ant arc longer than all previous arcs combined.

I didn't enjoy this last chapter as much as the others, though I'm not sure why. It somehow seemed less tense than previous ones; maybe since we knew Hisoka's victory was inevitable. I'm going to have to disagree with you, Goral - the majority of the fights in the Ant arc were extremely tactical, well-though out and believable. The exception to the tactics (aside form the user of Little Rose) was Netero vs Meryem, which was just showing how strong they both are (and even though Meryem was stronger, Netero was still ten times as bad-ass).

This fight was just reminding us how scary Hisoka is, which isn't a bad thing, don't get me wrong, but it was hard to get too excited about it. Having said that, the shot of him throwing all the cards at the start of the fight was very awesome. I look forward to Hisoka fighting someone that can give him a run for his money.

Finally, I'm reminded again of how an ability like Bungee Gum, which in so many other fictional universes would be totally lame, is, in the Hunter x Hunter universe, a deadly and versatile tool. Which is a great example of how Hunter x Hunter rules!

[Goral]

In terms of neither pages nor chapters was the Ant arc longer than all previous arcs combined.
It was a deliberate exaggeration on my part. To be exact 133 chapters where in the ant arc and 185 chapters were in previous arcs. Which is over 40% of the story up to this point which is absurdly high.

[Tame]

To be exact 133 chapters where in the ant arc and 185 chapters were in previous arcs. Which is over 40% of the story up to this point which is absurdly high.

Proportion of length of the overall story isn't intrinsically linked to quality of one individual arc. The York Shin arc was nearly 50% of the story up to that point.

EDIT: PS, I like your avatar.

[Goral]

Sure but when you have an arc of nearly 150 chapters in length which are being presented over many years then it's a different story. Personally I wouldn't have a problem if one arc would last even 200 chapters as long as it wouldn't feel dragged on and the only variation would be a fight with a different opponent. E.g. FMA, it was one consistent story that's why I consider it as the best shounen ever.

And thanks, are you a Firefly fan too?

[zelllogan]

Fights that are rich in events & ended in less than one chapter. Just perfect, you don't need more.



And thanks, are you a Firefly fan too?
You thought you were alone :) ? There are many Firefly fans. I don't even know how many times I watched the whole serie.

[roggie]

wonder if killua will fight Feitan someday

[hachikurooo]

Great chapter this week! I'm impressed with Togashi, he keeps on coming back with one chapter after another. I assume Gotoh was reporting to someone from the Zoldyck family. Perhaps it was Zeno? Just speculating from how the chart in last chapter, pretty sure it said Zeno supervises both Canary and Gotoh.

A little anxious how this arc will turn out-- if Gotoh really is a goner, then Togashi probably won't hesitate to keep killing characters again. And here I was expecting a less emotionally exhausting arc.

[Host Samurai]

A little anxious how this arc will turn out-- if Gotoh really is a goner, then Togashi probably won't hesitate to keep killing characters again. And here I was expecting a less emotionally exhausting arc.

That's one of the reasons why I love this manga so much. Basically anyone can die and most importantly they die without any foreshadowing or whatsoever.

[Uriel]

Gotoh strikes me as Manipulator, so I don't think we have seen really his ability. I'll make a crazy prediction here, but I'm thinking on some ability that can cure-kill with 50% chances :P Like throwing a coin, if you like.

And let me be clear: I tolerate some offtopic discussions because they somehow relate to the chapter. I WONT tolerate insult to each other such as obtuse and similar sarcasm as "Go read the manga again". Consider ALL warned and next time I'll directly take action.
You can always use Private Message to talk each other.

PS: Talk about arc can be moved to the Hangout or another thread. Here I remind you it's ONLY about the latest chapter.

[ksfst]

Gotoh strikes me as Manipulator, so I don't think we have seen really his ability. I'll make a crazy prediction here, but I'm thinking on some ability that can cure-kill with 50% chances :P Like throwing a coin, if you like.


Damn, I didn't think of that :O
Would be actually pretty damn awesome if Gotoh had an ability just like that, tho something tells me he's really gone, the way it all happened, the text in end of this chapter among other things, I think he has lost his head for good.

[THM Nindo]

I would just like to call it right now.... After curing Gon and finding some way to pay the "price" my expectation is that Killua is going to wish for Alluka to remove her own power as it seems like the only possible resolution for him to get what he wants, a normal life for her.

Make sense.
But, the payment for that wish might be very very big.

[Chrollo]

Come on how was it dragged on? sure it was long but it had different stories not just one objective
the fights weren't just variations and had much strategy to them, with great development as well.

maybe it felt annoying due to the hiatus(es) since people had to wait so long for a chapter :P

[Uriel]

Damn, I didn't think of that :O
Would be actually pretty damn awesome if Gotoh had an ability just like that, tho something tells me he's really gone, the way it all happened, the text in end of this chapter among other things, I think he has lost his head for good.
I actually don't care if He's alive or not, I'm always complaining that some authors are just too cowards to kill characters when you have to do it...But this time I don't see unreasonable to have an ability based on luck. Throwing a coin is most times referred to destiny and how it offers two opposite perspective of how things would happen. Translating that to Nen and being all the cuts direct to his body I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of ace under the *insert name of the the thing around your wrist when you wear long clothes*

More after watching how Kurapika healed himself for a serious broken arm and Netero stopping the bleeding by using just his muscles.

[ashher]

Nope. Current fights are much better since it's more about outsmarting (and I mean outsmarting not pretending to outsmart by using experience in an imaginary game that is supposedly more complicated than go and which can be applied in real battle situation, lol) your opponent rather than being a SSJ and abilities are simple and effective. But what's truly best is that they're not as dragged just to artificially prolong the story. That's why bug-arc is longer than all previous arcs combined.

If you put it like that it's 0.2 km x 2 km so it's 0.4 sq km. Or not since you forgot to write (meters)^2.

Chapter was great/epic/exquisite/I'm out of words and it's become a standard now. The fight was awesome and Gotoh was impressive despite being defeated by Hisoka so quickly. He had bad luck that Hisoka was in no mood to play with him but was in killer mode instead. As most I'm curious how Tsubone knew about Killua's ability and as many have mentioned it might be Kalluto who knew about it first. Or maybe Illumi's needles are more versatile and he could see or in some other way sense changes in Killua's body.

---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------

BTW, kewl0210 has released his translation: http://mangahelpers.com/t/kewl0210/releases/32409
It's always good to have alternative version to better detect nuances in he story.

You are being too harsh on ant arc fights. They are hardly 'artificially prolonged'. When i was reading weakly i felt that way and stopped reading hxh for a long time. But when i picked it up again 2 weeks ago...i got to read those chapters at a go and they didn't feel that stretched. Its just the opponents back then were too strong to be put out by single small trick. So togashi took his time to cover all the bases(as he usually does) and make it believable how they were beaten.

About the recent fight i agree that its not 'childish' and very entertaining. Gotoh isn't a character who needs such elaborate setting to make his defeat presentable, so togashi wasted no time here.

About hisoka not being in the playful mood, I guess hisoka didn't find gotoe interesting enough a toy. so its just business this time :D

[Phantron]

The fights in the Ants arc have far surpassed tactics. Depending on what kind of fights you like to see the stuff in Ants is either super awesome or super boring.

Togashi's stuff follows the wuxia subgenre from Chinese culture a lot where the highest level of fighting is one where your opponent cannot possibly do anything about your attacks even if they knew what you're attempting to do. Let's analyze the 6 most powerful characters from the Ants, most likely the 6 most powerful characters in HXH period.

Meryem - He's flat out immune to damage at the human level so he doesn't even need tactics, though of course he also has the best tactics out of any character at the same time.

Super Gon - He's ridiculously fast (faster than Pitou with his ability activated), if he hits you once you basicaly get stunned (anything that can stun Pitou can stun any human being for sure) and then he pommels you to death. So beating Gon would basically require having a strategy of never getting hit. Good luck executing that against someone who appears to be the fastest and physically strongest human being in the HXH world.

Netero - The Kyanon is considered an uncounterable move unless you know which move he is about to use. Since only Meryem can figure this out, it's safe to assume no other characters have the intelligence to figure this out. Therefore as far as any other character is concerned, if Netero does a Kyanon you get hit and take huge damage, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it because no other character has Meryem's super intelligence to see its weakness.

Pufu - A strategy to beat him would involve not thinking and not breathing, and even then there's still no way for you to tell which Pufu is the real one.

Yupi - His ability is a straight powerup on himself and have no obvious weakness. He can annihilate any land-bound character with just flight + aerial bombardment and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Pitou - Similar to Yupi, his ability is more of a self-buff. He seems to be able to heal himself quickly enough in mid combat. I guess if you know that his ability persists on death it'd help you avoid his counterattack on death, but at that point you already killed him so it's not that big of a deal overall.

There's no 'fancy tactics' for the god-tier characters in HXH because the characters in HXH aren't stupid. After Pufu was freed from the smoke jail the first thing he did was hide his true self in midair. At this point you can't 'tactic' your way against him because you're fighting someone who can bombard from where you cannot reach, and his only weakness is at a spot you cannot reach, if you can even know where it is to begin with (seems pretty much impossible without Palm's ability). Likewise you don't see a fight against Yupi after his evolution because at that point all he has to do is fly in air and rain down aura blasts and there is absolutely nothing any character incapable of flight can do about it.

All the god-tier characters in HXH pretty much trumps tactics with absolute power. Their moves have no obvious weakness and to formulate a strategy against them basically requires you to never get hit, which is not a reasonable strategy. You can have all the time you want to plot against the 6 above characters and you still won't be able to think of anything clever when these guys can pretty much kill you in one hit, or attack from where you cannot possibly reach, or both.

[ashher]

The official sourcebook gives Hisoka a score of 5 on Ingenuity and while it's not a definitive source, I think it captures the idea pretty well. He isn't the strongest or smartest guy but he can think on his feet as well as anyone else. He also clearly has extremely high physical attribute and most importantly, experience.

However Hisoka has a pretty big weakness in that his tactics are very dangerous. We see Hisoka end up losing an arm or two on a fairly regular basis. In those cases his tactics worked, but what if they did not? What if Kastro just stopped using clones after he took both of Hisoka's arm off? How is Hisoka supposed to beat a Reinforcement user fighting defensively with no arms? Given Hisoka's importance in the story it is almost by necessity that his plot has to always work, because the moment they fail, he'd probably be dead or at least start in a disastrous position. I suspect this is also why Gotoh never land a hit, because based on past history, if Gotoh landed a hit, Hisoka would most likely be down an arm or equivalent just because that's the way he fights, and since he's supposed to be fighting multiple guys in a row that'd make the subsequent combat very unbelieveable.

you are right that hisoka needs his plans to come off to win...but hey, that suits the motif of his character well. He is after all, a magician. You catch a magician's trick, and he's done for right:tem?

The thing is hisoka is extremely good magician. Its very believable that none has catch his tricks yet.

[Federicoxxx]

CAN someone explain to me. .what the hell is this?

http://i43.tinypic.com/rt4aky.jpg

is part of Gotoh Glasses he steal from him ?

[Phantron]

you are right that hisoka needs his plans to come off to win...but hey, that suits the motif of his character well. He is after all, a magician. You catch a magician's trick, and he's done for right:tem?

The thing is hisoka is extremely good magician. Its very believable that none has catch his tricks yet.

Even in the Kastro fight, the narrator (presumably Togashi) says Kastro could've won if he didn't panic. Looking at all the abilities in HXH so far, being able to regrow an arm is clearly outside of what aura can do (Archangel presumably is the product of multiple people's power combined like most GI powers). So if Kastro just says, "Self, I know people can't just regrow their arm after I chopped it off", then he can just fight extremely conservatively and Hisoka would have no way to win. If it was a fight to the death, he'd be dead. Kastro is presumably very inexperienced when it comes to trickery, but again, all you have to know is that lost limbs do not magically regenerate in HXH, which seems like an obvious fact to anyone who's done some fighting in the world. Maybe the point was that Kastro is so inexperienced that he can't figure even this out, but it seems to be an awfully dangerous assumption since it really shouldn't take much experience with aura at all to figure out lost limbs don't regenerate themselves in midcombat.

---------- Post added at 02:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------


CAN someone explain to me. .what the hell is this?

http://i43.tinypic.com/rt4aky.jpg

is part of Gotoh Glasses he steal from him ?

I thought that's just one of Hisoka's cards soaked in blood.

[ashher]

Even in the Kastro fight, the narrator (presumably Togashi) says Kastro could've won if he didn't panic. Looking at all the abilities in HXH so far, being able to regrow an arm is clearly outside of what aura can do (Archangel presumably is the product of multiple people's power combined like most GI powers). So if Kastro just says, "Self, I know people can't just regrow their arm after I chopped it off", then he can just fight extremely conservatively and Hisoka would have no way to win. If it was a fight to the death, he'd be dead. Kastro is presumably very inexperienced when it comes to trickery, but again, all you have to know is that lost limbs do not magically regenerate in HXH, which seems like an obvious fact to anyone who's done some fighting in the world. Maybe the point was that Kastro is so inexperienced that he can't figure even this out, but it seems to be an awfully dangerous assumption since it really shouldn't take much experience with aura at all to figure out lost limbs don't regenerate themselves in midcombat.


No, there is no rule saying that there can't be such an use of Nen which allows you to attach your limbs in a minute,or even that they can't be regrown.

We all know magicians can't cut a person in two and then join them together again to make them alive. Still it doesn't stop boggling our minds. And if that does to us, ones who are living in the times when this trick has gotten old as hell, what did the observers feel when the saw the magician who came up with the trick first?

Once again, Hisoka's motif is of a magician. A magician lives of his ability to stun people with awe by doing logically impossible feets, which even the observers know to be impossible. So its nothing to complain about that if anyone catches hisoka's tricks, he'll fail. Its the same with all magicians.

[Ero-Sanji]

I agree with Ashher, on that matter. Even when knowing something for certain you can't hinder yourself from becoming mind f*cked over such an extraordinary feat.

Now, yes, perhaps regrowing your limbs is too much, but not reattaching them, since even regular doctors could do that. Then there's the risk that you fell into some illusion, thinking that you did sever the arm. Kastro was doomed from the beginning, Hisoka had it all figured out.

That is his most dangerous weapon in his wide arsenal, his unpredictability. Just look at the recent fight and the reason behind the pun/joke, Hisoka made Gotoh think of a certain move, but in reality Hisoka had other plans. However, often the attacker would skip one move, the fake one obviously, but Hisoka executed both and excellently finished it.

[Phantron]

Outside of Archangel, which is presumably not the result of any one person's power, nobody has shown an ability that's anywhere close to regrowing a limb in mid battle.

Even if Machi was on the battlefield and immediately sewn the severed arm back, she said you should avoid rigorous exercise since the arm needs time to heal, so presumably fighting with the reattached arm is well out of the question. Given Hisoka pretty much just duct-taped his arm back on, you'd have to assume either he can't actually swing the arm, or if he did it'd basically be killing the cells in his arms and thus highly dangerous. Either way, his combat strength is greatly reduced with a duct-taped arm.

Now you don't have to know exactly what Hisoka did, but if you have any experience in the world of HXH it should be obvious that lost limbs do not regenerate themselves. Just like you cannot create a sword that can cut through anything, you can't develop an ability that instantly restores a lost limb (at least not by yourself). You don't have to understand what trick Hisoka did, as long as you're aware that he can't actually get his arm back up. In fact, if what Machi did was something routine in HXH, then most people should know something like, "Last time I lost my arm, it took a week before the arm healed to normal after they reattached it", and from that you should be able to figure out there's no way you can do this in mid combat and still retain full power.

Obviously Kastro was overwhelmed and didn't think that far, but it really doesn't take much to think about this. Like Morel says, it's normal to face abilities you have no idea what they do. As long as you know some basic facts in HXH you should be able to come to the conclusion that Hisoka cannot fight at full capacity. Machi more or less speaks as the voice of reason in her commentary, and she said "Why did you lose both of your arms?" Losing one arm is a valid tactic, but losing the second arm is pretty much a needless stunt that Hisoka did just because he's halfway crazy. All his preparation were done after he lost his first arm. It's not like losing the second arm gave him a greater opening against Kastro. Hisoka takes pointless risks probably as a function of his personality, and sure it's not going to hurt him as long as he's fighting unimportant characters relative to the story, but that means his power comes from his necessity to the story, not necessarily because everything he did was a great idea.

I don't think he took any unnecessary risks against Gotoh, though. That said, the reflected coin trick could just be his normal card barrage too (Gotoh would have to defend against them the same way) and the outcome will still be the same.

---------- Post added at 03:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 PM ----------

By the way, HXH isn't some world like Naruto where you've to question what is reality and what is only a figment of your imagination. If you chop someone's arm off you can be pretty sure that's really their arm. The story narrator even said that Kastro was not fooled by the regrown arm since that was well beyond what can be explained by 'magic trick'. He paniced because Hisoka saw through the weakness of the clone, and was defeated by the bubblegum that Hisoka used when he lost his first arm while doing the 'pick a card' trick. So the second arm Hisoka lost didn't get him any advantage, and if his original plan failed, then losing that second arm would've sealed his fate because he'd be in no position to defend with no arms.

Now of course you can say since Hisoka was borderline crazy and it's hard to imagine beating someone with one arm if they see through your plan so might as well go all in, I can buy that, but it's not exactly a great plan. Again, Machi pointed out that losing the second arm is pointless so far as defeating Kastro is concerned, and she's probably one of the better impartial observers in HXH. Hisoka's strong due to his unpredictabilty, i.e. he lost his second arm just because he felt like it, not because it was a great plan. But that unpredictabilty can easily backfire on him too. You can't just since Togashi won't have Hisoka die to a no-name guy like Kastro his crazy stunts will never fail, at least not as an impartial analysis of character strength.

[Ero-Sanji]

Phantron, please... It's a trick!
You're supposed to question reality by it. Uri Geller was on Swedish television the other day and presented an amazing trick that involved the revival of old damaged and out of repair; watches, phones etcetera. When he had finished his 1,2,3 a lot of these supposedly damaged belongings even amongst the audience began to work again. Now, I know damn well that Uri Geller isn't a true magician, illusionist, psychic or whatever, but I was still amazed and in awe by the fact that the things started to work and in that moment I was really questioning this man's abilities.

Hisoka was in Kastro's mind the minute he offered his arm, then he went on chewing on his lost arm and that's when you see Kastro beginning to get nervous, then he pulled a card out of his own flesh-wound, a card that matched the one Kastro had initialy chosen on the ground. All of this is a part of Hisoka's great trick. The build-up is as important as the trick itself. Hisoka had everybody fooled and in his palm, even the most rational being in this manga, Killua.

Also, please, don't say that this manga doesn't deal with the fact of questioning reality, what's the first thing Killua says when Kastro lands his first hit on Hisoka. Heck, even Hisoka thought he was dreaming while fighting Kastro in the beginning of the match, that's on of the reasons Kastro managed to get so many scores at the initial mintues. However, Hisoka calm and collected as he is, he started thinking that there has to be something more to it.

Then we have the regrowing ability, well, Kastro had the ability to create a clone, shouldn't there be a possibility to conjure an arm? There are so many ways to do this in and Kastro thought about it to. Also let me remind you of what Hisoka said: "Yes I'd better hid this"(about the wound) "It could give the impression that I put it back during the fight". See, everyone who saw this fight except Machi, probably because she knows of his skills, thought that the arm was never severed from his body. Don't question Hisoka's deceitfulness, this is the man that fooled the entire phantom troupe, twice!

Lastly about the experience argument, it doesn't work that way. First of all, we're still to realistic when it comes to this show that we forget that this is the same world and rules that makes it possible for a man to achieve a punch the strength of a nuke, once again, a NUKE! What's to say regrowing is impossible. It doesn't even have to be a regrowing skill, it could be conjuring as I mentioned before. But that doesn't matter because hen you see the impossible in front of you, you often freak, you freeze. Kastro was not inexperienced, he was tricked.

[Phantron]

Ubogin's GOAL is to punch as hard as a nuke. No human character in HXH has anywhere near the power output of a nuke in any form of attack whatsoever. Otherwise they wouldn't need to use the Rose in the first place, since even the explosion was enough to take out Meryem if he didn't absorb the other two Royals. In fact, what can be done with aura seems to be well below what you can do with technology in the world of HXH when it comes to destructive power. The power of aura is well bounded by reality.

Hisoka had two plans going in that fight:

Plan #1 - Lose one arm, set up trap with severed arm with bubblegum for a strike.
Plan #2 - Lose a second arm and pretend it came back, probably to mess with Kastro's mind.

Plan #2, as the manga said, did NOT work. Even Kastro realized you can't regrow an arm in mid battle. He was defeated by plan #1, which was done by losing one arm. He paniced because Hisoka was able to identify the real Kastro over the clone.

The second plan is a needless risk. It's not the result of some calculated move to win. If you put Kuroro's brain in Hisoka's body in the same situation, there's no way he'd opt for losing a second arm when he already has a plan to win, and he's not a worse fighter for not taking a meaningless risk. Now HXH does reward people who think outside the box, but in this particular instance, the risk Hisoka took for plan #2 turned out to be for nothing. It didn't matter in the end but it wasn't a gain. It's like when Gon sacrificed one of his arm to hurt Gensuru. It actually didn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things and could easily backfire.

The reaction of Killua is pointless since at this point he literally has no idea what are the limitations of aura. However using some 300+ chapters of HXH any reader can infer it must be pretty much impossible to regrow a limb in midcombat. The only power that'd match this would be Archangel, which is presumably a combination of multiple people spending a lot of time, i.e. no remotely combat-usable. Unless the point is that Kastro is also clueless as to what is likely within the limit of aura, then he should be able to come to the same conclusion. And if the point is that Kastro just has no idea what aura can do, then the fact he was fooled isn't saying anything.

There's another manga I follow where one guy did a dangerous move and got killed, and his opponent said "Not all risks are rewarded." Sure for story-significant characters you'll very rarely see they get killed for doing risky things, but risk is not inherently rewarding. Hisoka has a huge amount of unpredictabilty but unpredictabilty doesn't mean always mean good things will happen.

---------- Post added at 05:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------

Kuroro is probably the most similar character to Hisoka in terms of strength/story significance/role in story. Unlike Hisoka, he's clearly the thinking type, whereas Hisoka appears to be someone who trusts his instincts more than sound strategy. Kuroro is given a ranking of 5 in Knowledge in the sourcebook, which I don't think anyone will dispute. But he was captured by Kurapika because he is thinking about how to deal with the darkness instead of acting. If Hisoka was in that situation, he'd act first instead of think first and most likely avoid Kurapika's attack.

But on the other hand, Kuroro would never lose an extra arm for a dubious plan, whereas Hisoka did.

HXH does not make an attempt to judge whether the thinker or the wild card is better. They both have their weaknesses and strengths. If Kuroro fought Hisoka, it's entirely possible Kuroro got surprised by an unusual ploy, or Hisoka dies horribly to Kuroro's calculated plan. Without invoking "Togashi wants XYZ to live", both outcome are perfectly feasible.

[ashher]

Outside of Archangel, which is presumably not the result of any one person's power, nobody has shown an ability that's anywhere close to regrowing a limb in mid battle.


There is a huge difference between 'nobody has shown' and 'nobody can ever do'. We've seen nothing like the ants did before they actually did it. we've seen nothing like reattaching a completely cut off limb before machi did it. Hisoka uses that little area between what is not possible and what is not probable...and do things that apparently nobody are likely able to do, and that way the opponent starts wondering 'is it really impossible...or was it just improbable, as i'm seeing it being done in front of my own eyes". And that my friend is where the wonder of magic lies.

[Phantron]

There is a huge difference between 'nobody has shown' and 'nobody can ever do'. We've seen nothing like the ants did before they actually did it. we've seen nothing like reattaching a completely cut off limb before machi did it. Hisoka uses that little area between what is not possible and what is not probable...and do things that apparently nobody are likely able to do, and that way the opponent starts wondering 'is it really impossible...or was it just improbable, as i'm seeing it being done in front of my own eyes". And that my friend is where the wonder of magic lies.

The Ants are well outside of human powers. I really don't think you'll see another guy who can create clones with attack power that are imprevious to physical damage (Pufu), let alone a guy who can learn your special ability and improve it by killing you (Meryem).

Machi charges 50 million zenny for the operation, which is about $500K when converted to US currency. So it seems like it's an expensive surgery but clearly not something that'd be unaffordable to anyone fighting at the level of Celestial Tower 200 floor+ stage.

In fact, if you've ever had a surgery like that, consider what the reattaching involves:

1. Someone has to hold the hand while she attaches it, so it's clearly not something usable while fighting another guy.

2. It takes time for arm to heal.

3. You can't do any rigorous exercise with the arm for a while (presumably fighting to the death has to be out of the question with such an arm).

4. You'll still see the scars sustained by the arm after the surgery.

So from this you'd come to the conclusion that if someone's got their limb separated in a fight, it's not going to return to a combat-ready status during combat.

Now if it normally takes say a week before your arm healed, but Hisoka's deception made it look like his arm healed within a day to even a relatively informed observer, that's clearly possible since nobody can say for sure it has to take a week for your arm to heal after it's reattached. But any informed observer can say there's no way a severed arm takes no time to heal after it's reattached. In fact, I think the whole point Hisoka put the deception after the surgery is to ensure nobody else tries to jump him while he's weak.

[ashher]

Ubogin's GOAL is to punch as hard as a nuke. No human character in HXH has anywhere near the power output of a nuke in any form of attack whatsoever. Otherwise they wouldn't need to use the Rose in the first place, since even the explosion was enough to take out Meryem if he didn't absorb the other two Royals. In fact, what can be done with aura seems to be well below what you can do with technology in the world of HXH when it comes to destructive power. The power of aura is well bounded by reality.

Its really no rule, not one the in-universe characters are aware of in any way. Also i can't believe that anyone can argue 'power of aura is well bounded by reality"...using electricity to move fast,or throwing coins faster than bullet is as impossible as punching like nuke. For all we know, there is still no human character in HxH who can't punch like nuke...something which may be introduced later, may be someone the hunter association doesn't know about. One thing for sure, no in-universe character knows that for sure.



Hisoka had two plans going in that fight:

Plan #1 - Lose one arm, set up trap with severed arm with bubblegum for a strike.
Plan #2 - Lose a second arm and pretend it came back, probably to mess with Kastro's mind.

Plan #2, as the manga said, did NOT work. Even Kastro realized you can't regrow an arm in mid battle. He was defeated by plan #1, which was done by losing one arm. He paniced because Hisoka was able to identify the real Kastro over the clone.

The second plan is a needless risk. It's not the result of some calculated move to win. If you put Kuroro's brain in Hisoka's body in the same situation, there's no way he'd opt for losing a second arm when he already has a plan to win, and he's not a worse fighter for not taking a meaningless risk. Now HXH does reward people who think outside the box, but in this particular instance, the risk Hisoka took for plan #2 turned out to be for nothing. It didn't matter in the end but it wasn't a gain. It's like when Gon sacrificed one of his arm to hurt Gensuru. It actually didn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things and could easily backfire.

As i've said before, hisoka is a magician. You think all the flashy stuff magicians do are absolutely necessary for pulling the main trick. No, they are there to enhance the effect,and because magicians like to be flashy. Hisoka is not kuroro. About those risks backfiring,sure its possible. For someone like Hisoka that possibility of backfiring what makes it more interesting. Once again its the allure of magic for a magician...you always know someone can catch you anytime. Yet you step out and do it,and you may even take some additional risk to make the trick look more awesome...that risk is a lovely feeling.


The reaction of Killua is pointless since at this point he literally has no idea what are the limitations of aura. However using some 300+ chapters of HXH any reader can infer it must be pretty much impossible to regrow a limb in midcombat. The only power that'd match this would be Archangel, which is presumably a combination of multiple people spending a lot of time, i.e. no remotely combat-usable. Unless the point is that Kastro is also clueless as to what is likely within the limit of aura, then he should be able to come to the same conclusion. And if the point is that Kastro just has no idea what aura can do, then the fact he was fooled isn't saying anything.

the reaction is important because those characters are not 'readers',and their reactions tell us what they know to be 'impossible' and what they don't. They don't have the same privileges of out-universe logics (like how the mangaka writes,whether handing out huge healing powers to someone suits his style or not). Its clear that in-universe, there is no definite set limit to healing power by aura...not one that killua and the spectators were aware of. There may be a probable one, but crossing that line of probability is not a total impossibility. Even as readers, we can't say for sure that there can be no such healing power...all we can say is that its not likely(what if someone had made some peculiar oath or has some special gift like killua's sister?).


There's another manga I follow where one guy did a dangerous move and got killed, and his opponent said "Not all risks are rewarded." Sure for story-significant characters you'll very rarely see they get killed for doing risky things, but risk is not inherently rewarding. Hisoka has a huge amount of unpredictabilty but unpredictabilty doesn't mean always mean good things will happen.

Of course, not always everything will go accordingly. What you are saying here is the way to defeat Hisoka, and that's the way to catch any magician in his act. None here is saying that Hisoka or his M.O. is perfect...his flashiness is what makes it work, awes the opponents...but they can be used to defeat him as well, just like its with magic.



Kuroro is probably the most similar character to Hisoka in terms of strength/story significance/role in story. Unlike Hisoka, he's clearly the thinking type, whereas Hisoka appears to be someone who trusts his instincts more than sound strategy. Kuroro is given a ranking of 5 in Knowledge in the sourcebook, which I don't think anyone will dispute. But he was captured by Kurapika because he is thinking about how to deal with the darkness instead of acting. If Hisoka was in that situation, he'd act first instead of think first and most likely avoid Kurapika's attack.

But on the other hand, Kuroro would never lose an extra arm for a dubious plan, whereas Hisoka did.

HXH does not make an attempt to judge whether the thinker or the wild card is better. They both have their weaknesses and strengths. If Kuroro fought Hisoka, it's entirely possible Kuroro got surprised by an unusual ploy, or Hisoka dies horribly to Kuroro's calculated plan. Without invoking "Togashi wants XYZ to live", both outcome are perfectly feasible.

I'm not sure if kuroro is most similar to hisoka in terms of strength/significance/role in the story....but i agree with the rest.

[ashher]

The Ants are well outside of human powers. I really don't think you'll see another guy who can create clones with attack power that are imprevious to physical damage (Pufu), let alone a guy who can learn your special ability and improve it by killing you (Meryem).

You don't think mate, that's the main point...you don't think. And the in-universe characters don't have the same position as yours. In fact, normally you wouldn't think ants can do things that human can, but in HxH its been made possible and now you think its "well bound by reality" :facepalm.


Machi charges 50 million zenny for the operation, which is about $500K when converted to US currency. So it seems like it's an expensive surgery but clearly not something that'd be unaffordable to anyone fighting at the level of Celestial Tower 200 floor+ stage.

In fact, if you've ever had a surgery like that, consider what the reattaching involves:

1. Someone has to hold the hand while she attaches it, so it's clearly not something usable while fighting another guy.

2. It takes time for arm to heal.

3. You can't do any rigorous exercise with the arm for a while (presumably fighting to the death has to be out of the question with such an arm).

4. You'll still see the scars sustained by the arm after the surgery.

So from this you'd come to the conclusion that if someone's got their limb separated in a fight, it's not going to return to a combat-ready status during combat.

Now if it normally takes say a week before your arm healed, but Hisoka's deception made it look like his arm healed within a day to even a relatively informed observer, that's clearly possible since nobody can say for sure it has to take a week for your arm to heal after it's reattached. But any informed observer can say there's no way a severed arm takes no time to heal after it's reattached. In fact, I think the whole point Hisoka put the deception after the surgery is to ensure nobody else tries to jump him while he's weak.

the thing is what machi did is as impossible as what hisoka did in real world (i am a medical student, i know what i'm talking about here). So if the in-universe characters should believe that hisoka's ability is totally impossible, so should be machi's. Which clearly isn't the case. now note two factors here:

1. Not all the in-universe characters don't know about machi's abilities either...so should they just believe machi's sewing is just an elaborate fake like hisoka's too? What would you say then?

2. Clearly the in-universe characters think hisoka's trick was improbable, but they were left wondering whether it can be actually possible. We've seen such feats from many guys...Netero's powers were improbable, Kuroro's specialty was improbable, alluka's ability was improbable,the spider guys(nobunaga's partner)'s tanking ability was improbable; killua's speed,Ilumi's needles and Ants' evolution is not only improbable,but by logic its impossible...but they happened. In-universe characters live in such a world where improbable things happen...and that's why a magician like Hisoka is so much more dangerous and confusing cause no in-universe characters can be absolutely sure such things can never happen.

---------- Post added at 05:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 AM ----------


Phantron, please... It's a trick!
You're supposed to question reality by it. Uri Geller was on Swedish television the other day and presented an amazing trick that involved the revival of old damaged and out of repair; watches, phones etcetera. When he had finished his 1,2,3 a lot of these supposedly damaged belongings even amongst the audience began to work again. Now, I know damn well that Uri Geller isn't a true magician, illusionist, psychic or whatever, but I was still amazed and in awe by the fact that the things started to work and in that moment I was really questioning this man's abilities.

this exactly is the point. Specially in HxHverse...where things like specialization and oaths exist, its even more powerful since none can be absolutely what can't be done.

.

[Phantron]

The Ants serve as an all-powerful invading species and none of their powers would make sense within the previous context of HXH and I don't see any point to discuss potentials based on what the Ants can do.

There's a pretty clear distinction in HXH between the improbable and impossible. Having a sword that can cut through anything is impossible. Having a chain with the strength of Chain Jail is improbable. Regrowth of an arm is basically regeneration. That is impossible at the instantaneous time frame (Archangel requires a long preparation time to create the card) but is definitely possible if given a longer time frame. Rapid recovery is improbable, but there's at least one human character with that ability already (Gon). If a wound would take a week to heal took only one day to heal, that's improbable. If it healed instantly, that's impossible. In fact it's because regrowth of an arm is impossible that's why Kastro didn't fall for it. He never believed Hisoka could regrow his arm back in midfight. I suppose you can say that is part of his mind game, but the narrator also said mostly what messed up Kastro was the fact that his clone power got figured out, not that Hisoka got an extra arm back somehow.

HXH does not inherently reward risk. Hisoka's power is more of a function of his physical attributes and his importance in the story. If he was not a major charater, his crazy ploy is just as likely to create an opening or backfire on himself. Kite's ability has a pretty big risk too, and he died before ever drawing the number he needed (presumably the number he wants to get has to be extremely powerful). We know Gon isn't going to die either, but it doesn't mean what he did was a very smart thing. You can't say that just because someone can't die due to their story significance everything they did was right.

[ashher]

The Ants serve as an all-powerful invading species and none of their powers would make sense within the previous context of HXH and I don't see any point to discuss potentials based on what the Ants can do.

they are improbable and yet were possible. they make your arguement weak, i can totally understand why you don't see (or don't want to see) any point there.(just like all the other examples i gave,none of which you addressed)


There's a pretty clear distinction in HXH between the improbable and impossible. Having a sword that can cut through anything is impossible. Having a chain with the strength of Chain Jail is improbable.
which we know because of manga statements, yet note that we don't know how close to a all-cutting sword can begotten in HxH....that's where the grey area lies.


Regrowth of an arm is basically regeneration. That is impossible at the instantaneous time frame (Archangel requires a long preparation time to create the card) but is definitely possible if given a longer time frame. Rapid recovery is improbable, but there's at least one human character with that ability already (Gon). If a wound would take a week to heal took only one day to heal, that's improbable. If it healed instantly, that's impossible. In fact it's because regrowth of an arm is impossible that's why Kastro didn't fall for it. He never believed Hisoka could regrow his arm back in midfight. I suppose you can say that is part of his mind game, but the narrator also said mostly what messed up Kastro was the fact that his clone power got figured out, not that Hisoka got an extra arm back somehow.

first let me ask you, where did you find the statement that instant regeneration is impossible? Can you link that manga page to me, like i know you can with your example of all breaking sword?

Now you say rapid recovery is improbable, but one can do it. So how rapid is improbable and how rapid is impossible? Instantaneous is a word that's tough to define. If gon can do rapid recovery, why can't hisoka do a healing that seems so fast as if its instantenous? Or what if his right arm was actually a nen arm...or something that he can manipulate,or if he had some kind of pledge derived ability?

About the point kastro figuring out its impossible...its the normal thought process. But he could've never been sure,as we can understand from the reactions of the spectetors. About the trick not disturbing kastro that much, sure not all tricks are gonna pay off to the fullest. Wasn't that your original point? Creating the awe and doubt...hisoka does things for that, and the arm trick took even killua by surprise. If kastro wasn't, then its his credit...not hisoka's fault.


HXH does not inherently reward risk. Hisoka's power is more of a function of his physical attributes and his importance in the story. If he was not a major charater, his crazy ploy is just as likely to create an opening or backfire on himself. Kite's ability has a pretty big risk too, and he died before ever drawing the number he needed (presumably the number he wants to get has to be extremely powerful). We know Gon isn't going to die either, but it doesn't mean what he did was a very smart thing. You can't say that just because someone can't die due to their story significance everything they did was right.

None is saying Hisoka did a smart thing, we're saying Hisoka did a wonderful magic trick...one that held all the in-world spectators in awe. And judging other factors...its pretty much understandable why they were in awe...since nobody knows for sure the limits of nen.

I'm not saying everything that Hisoka did was right in the sense that those were the best options, but i'm saying everything that hisoka did was right in the sense that those were the most likely things a character like Hisoka would pull off.

And last of all, HxH neither prefers risk takers nor the safe players(didn't you make this point earlier,though you are now saying it doesn't reward risk?). The times Hisoka succeeded with his tricks, the overall settings were such that hisoka's tricks were indeed more likely to succeed than not. It didn't require nerfing down other characters...cause his tricks were indeed impressive. If anyone can see through them, it would be their credit, like kastro correctly guessed(but he never could've been sure, creating that doubt is often good enough) that attaching the arm was a fake. Butt the trick was still wonderful and could've worked with any of the spectators sitting there including killua and gon.

[Uriel]

2 things, Phantrom:

1) It's not about the trick being real or not, what bugs the most if the procedure. HOW it was done is more relevant than what was done.
2) What can be done with Nen is almost limitless. Every Nen User knows this. Even if they realize a condition must be fulfilled for it.

[exsoldier001]

Kastro was never sure bout the hand-off trick at all. there are too many possibilities on hisoka arm scene that made it so believable to kastro.

[Ero-Sanji]

Ubogin's GOAL is to punch as hard as a nuke. No human character in HXH has anywhere near the power output of a nuke in any form of attack whatsoever. Otherwise they wouldn't need to use the Rose in the first place, since even the explosion was enough to take out Meryem if he didn't absorb the other two Royals. In fact, what can be done with aura seems to be well below what you can do with technology in the world of HXH when it comes to destructive power. The power of aura is well bounded by reality.

Yes, that was his goal, look at that word for a minute. Goal not dream which further proves that it is possible and if that kind of power is reachable, almost everything is. Still if one person achieves such a power and you can't you'll have to rely on better technology, that's like the number one rule in warfare.

You say the power of aura is well bounded by reality, then tell me how realistic is it to conjure a blanket that makes objects smaller? I don't know why everybody is so obsessed with making this fictional story into a book of fact. It's not realistic at all, yes, it draws certain patterns and ingredients, if you may, from our world but is far from it. Come on, 11-12 year old boys beating adults in simple fighting...

Also, about Chrollo and Hisoka being alike, forget it. Hisoka has no master but himself, Chrollo is bound by his group, that is what made him get fooled by Hisoka since he trusts the group dearly. 5 in knowledge is not 5 in thinking/planning. Knowledge is to know certain things, like history, chemistry or math, not a persons ability to plan. Though I don't doubt Chrollo's thinking ability at all. It's funny how you doubt Hisoka as a thinking type, when he went through all that trouble just to get to one single person. Hisoka is definitely a thinking man, his problem is that he thinks of himself as the strongest.

[zelllogan]

Hisoka is definitely a thinking man, his problem is that he thinks of himself as the strongest.
It's only a problem if he is not the strongest :) ...

[Teubier]

I don't know why everybody is so obsessed with making this fictional story into a book of fact.
I beg to differ, I'm pretty sure nobody here is. From what I can understand, I see people thinking ~deeply~ then discussing, and if some of them (us, I do too) sometimes want to come from our 'reality' to think differently about Togashi-san's work or vice-versa, start from HxH to think differently about our 'reality', I find it weird to read so much blame about it (not only from you btw, don't take it too personally please :^_^).

From my viewpoint, nothing uttered here (and by 'here' I also mean anywhere on planet Earth except The Workroom) has a meaning regarding HxH's follow-up, since in the end, the only one with the keys is Togashi-san, right ? Mr. Togashi, are you hidden as a member to get some ideas for your next chapter ? I'd like it but most likely not...


I would just like to call it right now.... After curing Gon and finding some way to pay the "price" my expectation is that Killua is going to wish for Alluka to remove her own power as it seems like the only possible resolution for him to get what he wants, a normal life for her.
If Gon is ever cured, and ever cured by Alluka, it's something I'd like to read about both in HxH and here.


Gotoh strikes me as Manipulator, so I don't think we have seen really his ability. I'll make a crazy prediction here, but I'm thinking on some ability that can cure-kill with 50% chances :P Like throwing a coin, if you like.
Oh that would be nice, a nen skill based on pure luck, I'd love it. Not sure about the 50 % chances however (the idea of the coin's edge).

@Whoever interested : Regarding the eye of who may be the enemy lurking, it's still feels more like Killua's eye to me. It comes from the fact there is only one vignette, hence it looks to me like a focus on Killua's mindset, with the hint of the content of the previous one. "Things aren't going to be as easy as relaxing after losing those butlers until we reach the city since I feel someone's presence here, huh..." is what I read.

P.S. About the Ants Arc, the only missing piece to me for it to be a marvelous arc was Hisoka. From the moment he appeared at the beginning of the story, he always felt to me like the "red thread" backing HxH, as opposed to Gon (then Killua). Such a long absence (both HxH-time and real-time related) is above all else what made me savour the Ants arc more like an interlude, a tremendous interlude, but an interlude nonetheless.

[Uriel]

Compare Kalluto eyes Here (http://www.mangareader.net/207-14238-1/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-229.html) with the ones shown here. (http://mangastream.com/read/hunter_x_hunter/44614653/7) They look similar, huh?

[Teubier]

:s Mmmm no ? If I didn't know better, I'd swear you are joking... :amuse
Look, Killua's focused left eye here (http://i40.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/240/hunter-x-hunter-1643039.jpg), although it is a bit narrower (probably to enhance the killing impressiveness) and the pupil is facing a bit more up and left, it's more alike than Kalluto's, no ?
And the succession of vignettes going like :
_ 1/Killua holding Alluka tightly with an utterly serious (a little bit of killing intent) but vague gaze meaning he's extremely focused with all his senses BUT his sight ;
_ 2/Picture of the wood with Killua's thoughts ;
_ 3/Black vignette with just an eye and ?someone's? thoughts ;
_ 4/Black vignette with Alluko and Killua's upper body, the start of his face but not the upper part with his eyes ;
_ 5/Grey vignette with Killua awakening to his surroundings, eyes wide open, ready to move...
Makes me grasp that 3/'s blackness and eye close-up were only used as an effect to leave the previous sensing completely behind and emphasise Killua's focus on his thoughts. That's how I understood (without thinking) it the first time and, after including kkck/erhanboran/LoS's writings, it still seemed more logical to me that way. What's more, I may be mistaken, but I don't recall seeing Kalluto's eyes without at least an eyelash or two drawn.
I'm curious about what made them, and you (and anybody else?), think that it could be an enemy's eyes ? Even more if it was a first time impression.

[LoS]

The real question is, if it is Kalluto what exactly is he going to do about Alluka? Just keep informing Illumi so he does the dirty deed? Kalluto wants to get rid of Alluka due to jealousy, but what happens if he is caught in the act by Killua, what then will Killua do?

[Ero-Sanji]

I beg to differ, I'm pretty sure nobody here is. From what I can understand, I see people thinking ~deeply~ then discussing, and if some of them (us, I do too) sometimes want to come from our 'reality' to think differently about Togashi-san's work or vice-versa, start from HxH to think differently about our 'reality', I find it weird to read so much blame about it (not only from you btw, don't take it too personally please :^_^).

From my viewpoint, nothing uttered here (and by 'here' I also mean anywhere on planet Earth except The Workroom) has a meaning regarding HxH's follow-up, since in the end, the only one with the keys is Togashi-san, right ? Mr. Togashi, are you hidden as a member to get some ideas for your next chapter ? I'd like it but most likely not...

Some posts does seem to have the intention of putting this fictional story into the context of our own world and by the rules it follows. It becomes irrelevant and it destroys the story at whole because, when you start discussing whether it's logical for one character to zap another to death because in our world someone would definitely die, you've clearly ignored Togashi's world and the rules which it is constructed from. I'm not saying that reading, discussing and searching thoroughly into this fine piece of art is bad, but mixing our rules with its is just bad, not only for the doubter but also for the story at whole, once you start denying stuff you'll only end up disappointed. At the end of the day this is my opinion and my feelings.

[Reach]

Hisoka vs Gotoh is not a fight I enjoyed... Hisoka virtually pulled a deus ex machina to escape Gotoh's assault. Moreover, why is Gotoh standing there like a target practice? He should have stayed proactive in tracking Hisoka.

I'm beginning to think that Hisoka has lived for too long just for the sake of the story. From now on, I want his death to be fast and brutal, whoever will kill him (or a slow and painful, torturous death).

[Uriel]

Hisoka vs Gotoh is not a fight I enjoyed... Hisoka virtually pulled a deus ex machina to escape Gotoh's assault. Moreover, why is Gotoh standing there like a target practice? He should have stayed proactive in tracking Hisoka.

I'm beginning to think that Hisoka has lived for too long just for the sake of the story. From now on, I want his death to be fast and brutal, whoever will kill him (or a slow and painful, torturous death).
Honestly? I did not feel it as a Deux Ex Machina and believe me I tend to be a bitch about it. It was his technique, it's something He would do, it's something surprisingly risked as He also tends to do.

[Phantron]

Honestly? I did not feel it as a Deux Ex Machina and believe me I tend to be a bitch about it. It was his technique, it's something He would do, it's something surprisingly risked as He also tends to do.

He didn't use any special ability to avoid the coin barrage. He was just that fast. Killua can attack Yupi safely who was more than 10 times stronger than him by just being 'really fast'. I'm not sure where this super speed come from since usually characters of comparable power also have comparable speed unless otherwise specified. The fact that Hisoka need to use an ability to block the coin would suggest he shouldn't be much faster than Gotoh, except he is (Gotoh basically had no idea where he was the whole time because he's moving too fast).

[Jack Van Burace]

@ Phantron: I think he mentions being dragged by a previously setup "bubble-gum" in order to move around. That way Hisoka's speed = his gum's shrinking speed. And it explains how he ended up hanging on top of Gotoh with it: he was being dragged by his own gum the whole time.

EDIT: Here!

http://mangastream.com/read/hunter_x_hunter/44614653/18

He mentions he was under the elastic gum attraction the whole time, but he was also "glued" by his legs so that's why he didn't move. Whenever he released the gum on his legs, he would be fired into the other previously setup gums bound to him.

[Reach]

Hisoka's speed is not really the issue I have. It's that he was able to escape his own nen without any damage and the coins were already trapped at point blank distance. If he released his Bungee Gum were the coins were, shouldn't that have continued to hit him or rip his arms apart from the coins' force?

[Uriel]

If He is travelling dragged by the shrinking effect of the gum, then the rotation of the body would not be an issue since he can rotate with the coins. If He's able to attach one coin per tree He touches, then it's very likely to use the rotation as bullets since now they have speed due the gum effect.

[Phantron]

@ Phantron: I think he mentions being dragged by a previously setup "bubble-gum" in order to move around. That way Hisoka's speed = his gum's shrinking speed. And it explains how he ended up hanging on top of Gotoh with it: he was being dragged by his own gum the whole time.

EDIT: Here!

http://mangastream.com/read/hunter_x_hunter/44614653/18

He mentions he was under the elastic gum attraction the whole time, but he was also "glued" by his legs so that's why he didn't move. Whenever he released the gum on his legs, he would be fired into the other previously setup gums bound to him.

Problem is that if his leg is attached to something Gotoh should've been able to see it instead of going "???" If Gotoh didn't use Gyo then we have another 'newbie who doesn't know how to handle In' which means the whole fight is utterly pointless. If Gotoh can see where he's attached to then it'd be pretty easy for him to aim where the recoil would take him to.

I know right now they make it look like you can store the recoil ahead of time but his power is supposed to be bubblegum, not a spring. If you exert force against it, it's supposed to recoil immediately, not store it for future use. If you can store the recoil you can just say take an object, punch it against the bubblegum at full speed, and then store the recoil and then use it to launch a full power attack at any time. When you can use abilities like that you start getting into the danger zone of nonsensical guaranteed win scenarios. I know he used his ability but it'd make more sense if Hisoka was just that fast. Right now his power is turning into a portable jetpack since he seems to be able to use the recoil on demand for a burst of super speed.

[Salce]

Problem is that if his leg is attached to something Gotoh should've been able to see it instead of going "???" If Gotoh didn't use Gyo then we have another 'newbie who doesn't know how to handle In' which means the whole fight is utterly pointless. If Gotoh can see where he's attached to then it'd be pretty easy for him to aim where the recoil would take him to.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there are techniques that can not be seen even using Gyo.

[Phantron]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there are techniques that can not be seen even using Gyo.

Unless otherwise specified (i.e. Meleoron's ability is hidden via all forms of detection), Gyo must be able to see through anything aura-related. Now you can do like what Morel did by making the smoke look like say, grass, but I don't think Hisoka can apply his camoflauge ability on top of his gum. Even if he could, it seems like he went straight up to avoid the attack, which means the gum has to be attached to something above him. In this case no amount of camoflauge can hide the fact that you got something that looks like a bungee cord attached to a spot above you.

I was under the impression that his gum was below his feet and when he released it, it gave him some kind of super jump ability, and Gotoh can't see it because it was beneath his feet. However in that case his ability becomes some kind of portable jetpack and he can just attach it to his back for a burst of speed too, and nobody can see it since it'd be attached to behind him (assuming Hisoka never turns his back to his enemy).

[Teubier]

Problem is that if his leg is attached to something Gotoh should've been able to see it instead of going "???" If Gotoh didn't use Gyo then we have another 'newbie who doesn't know how to handle In' which means the whole fight is utterly pointless. If Gotoh can see where he's attached to then it'd be pretty easy for him to aim where the recoil would take him to.
It's pretty much a given that Gotoh didn't use his Gyo before : "Something to do with his ability ? (http://i996.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/327/hunter-x-hunter-2845111.jpg)". So, yes, he kind of was a newbie in the nen battles area compared to Hisoka (http://i4.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/63/hunter-x-hunter-1641342.jpg). I'm not saying that he was that much weaker but he was far too reckless and a bit smug (sending off his two sidekicks so fast), Butler's pride can be deadly. But that doesn't make the whole fight utterly pointless IMO, it's not only some Hisoka-Time for us fanatics out there :shout, but also a tiny reminder of what Hisoka is (a tricky character who takes pleasure in playing with his prey, like Uriel hinted (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/73879-Hunter-x-Hunter-Chapter-327-Discussion-328-Prediction?p=2690311&viewfull=1#post2690311) earlier) and what his skills are. It makes sense to me because this arc, for now, even though introducing a lot of new variables and characters, really feels like a revival of HxH's pre-Ant arc spirit and storyline (still not any hiatus in sight right ? ). The fact that they're more or less refurbishing the whole anime makes me think that they're trying to reach a younger audience that didn't enjoy HxH at its beginning.


I know right now they make it look like you can store the recoil ahead of time but his power is supposed to be bubblegum, not a spring. If you exert force against it, it's supposed to recoil immediately, not store it for future use. If you can store the recoil you can just say take an object, punch it against the bubblegum at full speed, and then store the recoil and then use it to launch a full power attack at any time. When you can use abilities like that you start getting into the danger zone of nonsensical guaranteed win scenarios. I know he used his ability but it'd make more sense if Hisoka was just that fast. Right now his power is turning into a portable jetpack since he seems to be able to use the recoil on demand for a burst of super speed.
That's not really storing the recoil, but temporarily delaying the elasticity's effect (Bungee Gum = Bubble Gum & Rubber Band, so spring is a can do), that's not exactly the same thing [Edit : or maybe it is in our minds, I'm not completely sure I understand what you mean by storing the recoil, what I mean is that the elasticity effect imbued object doesn't have to be attached to him, he can reach it later on by linking it back to him or to any other spot at any moment ~there might a length limit though~. I see the use of the sticky effect on his legs only as a way to flee even faster (assuming that he brought back the link from the cards a few seconds before fleeing, like firing a catapult : Hisoka being the rock, the rubber band being the nen thread from the cards and the mecanism used to postpone the launch being the Bubble Gum on his feet and the ground), so it does seem feasible to me that he could do it the other way around to launch object faster toward his opponents kinda like what you may find far fetched.]. And he did it already against Kastro back in the Celestial Tower, with his severed arm flying to Kastro's chin and against Gon's cheek with the piece of rock. So I don't really get how ?
Frankly, until now, it seemed more like a tool to fool around when facing weak opponents to me.

As to how Hisoka avoided getting hurt by Gotoh's whirling coins, too much laziness already :p, and Uriel's explanation makes enough sense to me, whichever way he sped (powerful legs and/or pansy gum pattern with the cards).

[Uriel]

Unless otherwise specified (i.e. Meleoron's ability is hidden via all forms of detection), Gyo must be able to see through anything aura-related. Now you can do like what Morel did by making the smoke look like say, grass, but I don't think Hisoka can apply his camoflauge ability on top of his gum. Even if he could, it seems like he went straight up to avoid the attack, which means the gum has to be attached to something above him. In this case no amount of camoflauge can hide the fact that you got something that looks like a bungee cord attached to a spot above you.
In. You're forgetting In. Which is only counter with Ryu focused in the eyes. Which we all know it's not the best of the movements.

[Phantron]

If you can't handle In you're already going to die in many horrible ways. In general fights dealing with In become so ridiculous that you pretty much have to assume it gets countered immediately or people will just die in absolutely ridiculous ways. You might as well say what if one of the coin Gotoh used was materialized and thus hidden and that coin kills Hisoka in one hit by hitting him in the head, since Hisoka wasn't specifically mentioned as using Gyo. In is pretty much a retired concept in HXH because every fight would either be over immediately or you'd have to be reminded every time that all the characters are always using the aura vision so that they don't mysteriously die to unseen attacks.

Gotoh can see that Hisoka used an ability but he doesn't know what the ability does. Like Morel said it is perfectly normal to have no idea what the other guy's ability is because characters in HXH don't get to consult the narrator's explanation of whatever's going on. From his point of view he can see Hisoka used something to stop his coins. There's no obvious way for him to deduce that the ability makes things stick/recoil. This isn't Bleach where it's normal that the first thing your opponent does is explain what all his abilities do.

If you can delay the recoil effect you have a personal jetpack with no drawback. In GI when Gon and Killua were doing 'super jump' they have to focus all their aura on their feet, which implies there's an inherent risk to any sudden burst of speed (because you're using all your aura for the speed in that instant). That is, even in HXH people don't normally jump the height of several buildings without focusing their aura at one point, which is always potentially vulnerable. Yes Hisoka can do that with his cards too but here the attack is no powerful than what you'd expect from an Emission user so the fact that he can delay it is okay.

Hisoka, as a character, appears to be fairly balanced in physical attribute and thus does not possess speed as a special attribute/ability (as opposed to say Killua, Cheetu, or even Feitan). That is, his speed should not be more exceptional compared to say his strength, and Gotoh was able to match him in strength and yet his speed was way faster than Gotoh can even react. Yet, if an ability can be used as if it's just equivalent of 'super speed' without drawback, then that's inherently too powerful. Bubblegum isn't a form of prolonged energy storage, or even a temporary one. Being able to store energy without drawback is probably too powerful of an abilty too. What doesn't he just punch a patch of gum with all his power, store the power, and then later punch someone normally and stick that patch of gum and then release it? There are way too many broken applications you can do with an ability that can store full energy for even a relatively short time. Besides, if you assume Hisoka started out the fight with the energy stored (there is no indication he applied the effect midcombat), it's long enough for him to introduce himself, throw a card barrage, talk some more, block a round of counterattack, and then release it. It might as well be a personal jetpack at this point if you can save up energy for that long.

[Tombadgerlock]

It's not storing power.

His Bungee gum has the proprieties of Glue and of Rubber at once. Here, he used the proprieties of Rubber on his feet to 'compress' and the proprities of glue to 'guid' to the next card when he stopped compressing.

[ashher]

I don't think it was mere speed either. Gotoh was saying that hisoka had two options, to release his nen and get hit by coins or to continue his nen and get twisted by it. Later he remarked that the problem was solved by hisoka releasing nen from his feet. His feets were attached to the thrown cards(which were lost in jungle) by rubber/gum, which has elasticity. Once hisoka released the stretched rubber, his body was moving freely. Hisoka's body was moving sort of like an arrow from stretched bowstring, after the bowstring was released. Now that hisoka's body was free moving, it could rotate freely along with the rotation of the coins. That is the only logical explanation of what transpired in the chapter and to how hisoka avoided getting twisted by his nen in the hands without releasing it. As to why Gotoh couldn't see hisoka's feet being connected with cards is difficult to understand. Only explanation that comes to me is that its like a rope trick from a magician, placing the ropes in such way that the viewers can't see(a basic magic technique). Not seeing the cards themselves is easier to understand as they were scattered in the jungle and got lost from vision.

[Phantron]

They're in a forest, not a carefully picked area where stuff can be camoflauged due to background lighting. Aura sticks out rather obviously in any environment (it's basically glowing light). If there is any vertical movement, then even camoflauge (and thus far he never used the texture on top of the gum) is useless because you can't camoflauge a thread-like object going straight up in open space. The only way to have these aura threads without being seen is if they only go horizontal on the ground level, or that they only up along the base of a tree. In this case your body would get scrapped as you're dragged through ground/tree/whatever. That won't hurt him but you'll defintely see tears so the lack of such thing indicates he didn't drag himself on the ground (not to mention dragging yourself across the ground should be rather obvious to see). Besides, the picture suggests Hisoka went up first since the last picture suggested that he's attached to a point fairly high up above ground.

If Hisoka was supposed to go from aura thread to aura thread like tarzan, then the threads have to be fairly visible given aura is an object that tends to stand out compared to natural surroundings. If they're hidden with In and Gotoh can't see it then he never made it past Aura 101 and shouldn't be fighting in the first place. Now that wouldn't help Gotoh stopping the attack but he was never supposed to be on Hisoka's level anyway.

[roggie]

Hisoka's rubber doesn't store energy, but i guess he can add the rubber power anytime he want. Otherwise kastro should had felt something pulling his chin http://www.mangareader.net/207-14064-12/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-55.html

[Uriel]

There is levels on In as much as there is levels on Gyo. Not every Zetsu user is perfect, and it can be detected by monster. I consider Hisoka a master in hiding, since most of his tricks involves it.

Even if Gotoh used Ryu in his eye, it's very likely Hisoka is perfect to hide part of his aura.

[Phantron]

Hisoka's rubber doesn't store energy, but i guess he can add the rubber power anytime he want. Otherwise kastro should had felt something pulling his chin http://www.mangareader.net/207-14064-12/hunter-x-hunter/chapter-55.html

Where is the recoil coming from against Gotoh? If the rubber is outstretched, then you should see something like a bungee cord attached to his feet somewhere. If it's in a neutral state attached to his feet, then he'd have to exert some force to get the recoil. Does he stomp the ground really hard and the recoil bounce him straight up? How's that even different from just jumping?

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------


There is levels on In as much as there is levels on Gyo. Not every Zetsu user is perfect, and it can be detected by monster. I consider Hisoka a master in hiding, since most of his tricks involves it.

Even if Gotoh used Ryu in his eye, it's very likely Hisoka is perfect to hide part of his aura.

There's no such thing as a higher level of In, otherwise you get into a nonsensical battle of higher level Gyo versus even higher level In. You can just throw an aura projectile in someone's face and say, "I used a higher level In compared to normal, you're dead." Gyo has to see through any level of In no matter what. It's a guaranteed counter to hidden abilities unless the ability itself says otherwise (i.e. Meleoron's ability evades all form of detection).

Gyo won't see through camoflauges, i.e. the texture ability or Morel's smoke camoflauge. I assume here despite these abilities involve aura in the first place, whatever you camoflauge actually looks like the real object instead of glowing, so you can say make smoke look like grass, and someone with Gyo will only see something that looks like grass (otherwise all camo techniques are useless due to the fact that they're powered by aura). However, you can't camoflauge something in the middle of open space. If Hisoka needs to go anywhere in the vertical direciton, then he's got to have a cord-like object attached to somewhere above him, and you can't hide that no matter what.

Zetsu is absolute too. The most you can do is not feel anyone's aura at all. But just because you can't feel someone's aura doesn't mean you can't find them. If I trip over a rock while having perfect Zetsu, you'd still hear it. In the case of Kalluto it's implied that Hisoka is so sensitive that he can probably hear Kalluto's footsteps from a long distance away, and whether Kalluto has great or poor Zetsu is irrelevent because Hisoka heard him.

[Uriel]

Where you got that those techniques are absolute? O_O

[Federicoxxx]

i wonder.. from WHO is that eye.. looking at Killua..


http://img297.imagevenue.com/loc434/th_122060244_eye_122_434lo.jpg (http://img297.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=122060244_eye_122_434lo.jpg)



is not illumi one...neither hisoka.. ones....is not wrinkled..so is not tsubone...

i think this is a freaking good chance...2 introduce a completly new char...at the stage...

and i think is the informant..of illumi..whoever he or she is..

[Phantron]

Where you got that those techniques are absolute? O_O

Otherwise you'd get into a perpetual fight like this:

A: "I used level 10 In!"
B: "That's no match against my level 11 Gyo!"
A: "I've been holding back, it was actually level 12 In!"

Likewise Zetsu is absolute in the sense that everyone who matters that use it always has it at maximum proficiency, i.e. no aura observation is possible. Yes you can suck at Zetsu to the point where some aura is observeable but we're not talking about guys who failed Aura 101 here. Otherwise you can repeat the above dialogue but substitute Zetsu for In, and En for Gyo.

In, in particular, is pretty much an instant kill technique. Just because it's primarily used first by Hisoka in non-lethal ways, doesn't mean it's not a fatal technique. You can either materalize a rock and throw it at someone's face (hidden by In), or just throw an aura blast hiddened by In. Since Materialize and Emission are directly opposite of each other, that means people can be at most 1 school away from either Materialize or Emission so every fight in HXH, if Gyo countering In isn't absolute, would involve In, and the guy with the higher level In than the oppoennt's Gyo would always win because you're not going to fend off an attack you cannot see.

[roggie]

Where is the recoil coming from against Gotoh? If the rubber is outstretched, then you should see something like a bungee cord attached to his feet somewhere. If it's in a neutral state attached to his feet, then he'd have to exert some force to get the recoil. Does he stomp the ground really hard and the recoil bounce him straight up? How's that even different from just jumping?

Usually if something is too complicated/confusing i just let it go and maybe look for a good answer from the guys in the forum. Then if something odd pops up i try to add it to the discussion hoping this bring better theories :)
Anyway, what i wanted to show was the fact there was a line attached to kastro's chin and it's impossible he wouldn't feel something pulling him. Looking back to that episode we can think it was even a little farfetched but....

About the jump thing you asked, i guess he could have attached a line on some trees. And when he wants to jump he just add the rubber nature. My theory intends to make it impossible for him to store the kinetic energy of a cannon ball as some were complaining here. The rubber energy would be directly and only related to him. Pretty simple actually.

[Federicoxxx]

Guys...is Hisoka.. he doesnt need 2 set up trap like shikamaru of naruto ..and..
create a chessLIKE plan ....

he is fast and strong enough to move. .at that speed....once he release his bungee gum from his feets...

without any kind ..PREPARATIONS.. on the trees

[Phantron]

Actually it's because Hisoka is very strong that's why the whole thing makes even less sense. Would anyone be really surprised if Hisoka just jumped to avoid that attack? But it specifically said he used his ability, presumably to get extra speed or something, except then that brings up the question of where is his bungee cord attached to and how come Gotoh never saw it? You really wouldn't expect Hisoka to need anything special to dodge the attack or move around really fast. Is the point that Hisoka is actually pretty slow so he had to use his ability for a burst of speed?

As a point of reference, at the beginning of GI there's a small monster that moves extremely fast but can only move in a straight line during the training area. Biscuit said you're not supposed to try to train your eye to the point to keep up with the speed, but rather see which way it's going since it can only move in a straight line so you know where it's going next. If Hisoka is using this web-like thing above him for increased speed, he'd only be capable of moving in straight line too since he'd just be bouncing from thread to thread. Moving really fast in a predictable way = newbie training according to GI.

I think the whole ability thing is just way overkill. There's really no reason Hisoka would even need to use any ability to defeat Gotoh to begin with, unless the point is that Gotoh is surprisingly strong or that Hisoka is surprisingly weak. Gotoh, after all, is still only a butler. He's not supposed to be on par with Hisoka at all. Gotoh's coin roughly canceled out Hisoka's cards, but a coin is a much more durable object than a card. If they're supposed to be equally powerful, you'd expect Gotoh to shoot through the cards, so there's a pretty big difference between the two to begin with.

[Jack Van Burace]

Guys, Hisoka pulled a "coin-trick" on Gotoh using himself, and Gotoh was unable to see him moving. What's so hard to understand? The simple fact Hisoka hid his "Nen-web-throwing" within his card-shots is enough reason for Gotoh to miss that fact and not use Gyo, since the cards are visible targets. His attention was entirely focused on Hisoka, so he couldn't realize the trick.

Once Gotoh had his attention misdirected by the coin-devolution, Hisoka could slowly climb down from above and cut his throat while Gotoh didn't have a clue about where would he appear from.

Please watch this video to understand the basics of misdirection and how it doesn't require an incredible speed to work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0grANlx7y2E

You can rewind it later and see it's true.

[Airget]

i wonder.. from WHO is that eye.. looking at Killua..


http://img297.imagevenue.com/loc434/th_122060244_eye_122_434lo.jpg (http://img297.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=122060244_eye_122_434lo.jpg)



is not illumi one...neither hisoka.. ones....is not wrinkled..so is not tsubone...

i think this is a freaking good chance...2 introduce a completly new char...at the stage...

and i think is the informant..of illumi..whoever he or she is..

I think the scene is being over-analyzed. Killua was comforting Alluka to make sure they didn't feel like a burden, he then embraced Alluka and used it as a moment to analyze the current situation to see who might be watching over them. He then pulled back and put on a happy face to hide the fact that something was wrong. He doesn't want to worry Alluka so he'll do whatever it takes to make it feel like they aren't a burden.

[ashher]

Where is the recoil coming from against Gotoh? If the rubber is outstretched, then you should see something like a bungee cord attached to his feet somewhere. If it's in a neutral state attached to his feet, then he'd have to exert some force to get the recoil. Does he stomp the ground really hard and the recoil bounce him straight up? How's that even different from just jumping?

The rubber was already stretched, his used the sticking property of gum to stop him from shooting out previously. He stopped the sticky gum nen,and then he started shooting freely.

Togashi explains this pretty clearly
(http://mangastream.com/read/hunter_x_hunter/44614653/18)

"i threw out some elastic gums with my very first set of cards....So that if i were to release the sticky gum on my legs...i'd be able to fire whenever i pleased

this pretty much settles the question as to how Hisoka did what he did, and it definitely wasn't speed or recoil from concentrated elastic gum on his feet(which is something he should be able to do as well,theoretically)...it was the elastic bungee chords thrown with the cards.

As to why the chords were not visible, i've said already that its difficult to understand or explain. But you yourself made an excellent suggestion that hisoka can use the texture nen on top of his bungee gum to hide them in the background.

Or may be it was just a rope magic trick...which would be impossible to pull off in the given situation and surroundings in real life(as you yourself pointed out)...but in HxHverse, may be magicians are that just that damn good.

---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------


Guys, Hisoka pulled a "coin-trick" on Gotoh using himself, and Gotoh was unable to see him moving. What's so hard to understand? The simple fact Hisoka hid his "Nen-web-throwing" within his card-shots is enough reason for Gotoh to miss that fact and not use Gyo, since the cards are visible targets. His attention was entirely focused on Hisoka, so he couldn't realize the trick.

Once Gotoh had his attention misdirected by the coin-devolution, Hisoka could slowly climb down from above and cut his throat while Gotoh didn't have a clue about where would he appear from.

Please watch this video to understand the basics of misdirection and how it doesn't require an incredible speed to work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0grANlx7y2E

You can rewind it later and see it's true.

In RL, the type of trick Hisoka pulled out isn't possible with only misdirection. He can only get to cover the act of throwing out the elastic gum chords...but once the chords were there, he needs to camouflage them.

[lobo971]

OMG Hisoka is a Giant Spider! O_o i bet he can let tons of threads of his pansygum all over the place by jumping like this and then use it like a real frikkin spider! ( anybody touching the threads would be automaticly caught/spotted) cant believe of wide his range of action can be with his ability, cant wait to see him fighting again and see what it can do more...

[hunted]

OMG Hisoka is a Giant Spider! O_o i bet he can let tons of threads of his pansygum all over the place by jumping like this and then use it like a real frikkin spider! ( anybody touching the threads would be automaticly caught/spotted) cant believe of wide his range of action can be with his ability, cant wait to see him fighting again and see what it can do more...

and it is to become a big proof for kurapica to hunt him down ...

[Sachsenhesse]

Otherwise you'd get into a perpetual fight like this:

A: "I used level 10 In!"
B: "That's no match against my level 11 Gyo!"
A: "I've been holding back, it was actually level 12 In!"

Likewise Zetsu is absolute in the sense that everyone who matters that use it always has it at maximum proficiency, i.e. no aura observation is possible. Yes you can suck at Zetsu to the point where some aura is observeable but we're not talking about guys who failed Aura 101 here. Otherwise you can repeat the above dialogue but substitute Zetsu for In, and En for Gyo.

In, in particular, is pretty much an instant kill technique. Just because it's primarily used first by Hisoka in non-lethal ways, doesn't mean it's not a fatal technique. You can either materalize a rock and throw it at someone's face (hidden by In), or just throw an aura blast hiddened by In. Since Materialize and Emission are directly opposite of each other, that means people can be at most 1 school away from either Materialize or Emission so every fight in HXH, if Gyo countering In isn't absolute, would involve In, and the guy with the higher level In than the oppoennt's Gyo would always win because you're not going to fend off an attack you cannot see.

actually there is such a thing, remeber that training under biscuit there was lvl 1 training emission for gon etc.

hisoka has always used in... in every fight we saw from him and in every fight he did use bungeegum in another way then we are used to

[Phantron]

If Hisoka has some kind of thread/web attaching to a higher point above him, you can't camoflauge that because it'd be a thread in the middle of nowhere unless Gotoh can't tell the difference between nothing and something. It doesn't matter what you make the thread look like, it's still going to stick out rather obviously compared to nothing. It's not even a dimly lit environment where you might possibly miss the threads.

Stop thinking In as a trick just because Hisoka pretty much use it in the worst way possible. Depending on whether you're closer to Emission or Materialize, you can either use In on an Emission attack, or use In on a Materialized rock and throw it at someone's face. If you can't deal with In both attack will pretty much kill the opponent no matter what, so the fact that anyone who made it past Aura 101 can't deal with In is ridiculous, because they should have died a long time ago if they didn't know how to deal with it. This isn't something you get distracted or whatever, because forgetting to deal with In literally means you die instantly. And if there are higher level of In that you can't see through with Gyo, you might as well just roll over and die. No HXH character has shown to have any capacity to deal with an invisible attack, so any of the two aforementioned methods will kill any human type character in HXH if they can't see the incoming attack.

Hisoka wasn't depicted to be using Gyo either (no special illustratino on his eyes). Why don't people say Gotoh could've Materialized one of his coins, use In, and throw it? Then Hisoka would probably be dead, or at least knocked out (throw an object at HXH strength at someone's face and if they're not aware of it coming, it should at least knock you out).

In/Gyo mechanism is pretty much like an equivalent of "No rush" in a RTS. When two high level characters meet there's an implicit implication neither will ever use In so they don't have to spend the whole time showing Gyo on their eyes either, because otherewise the whole fight would just be about In/Gyo and you'd never see anything else, because as soon as you miss an In, you'd be dead.

[hgfdsahjkl]

there were multiple threads even if gotoh used gyo he will just see a countless track of threads he won't be able to decide on which way hisoka gonna use and at the same time Hisoka kept him busy by the coins launching at him FROM DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS,he used that moment to steal his finishing move from a blind angle to gotoh

and add to that,it seems that he was moving behind the trees and I think Hisoka can switct from a track to another,yes,he moves in a straight line but he can switch from one to another

and am not sure,but what prevents Hisoka from doing that trick even without the cards,he can just used it on a tree

[Tombadgerlock]

Gyo seems to be vision of sight only, too.

At that time, all of the line of bungee gum in in were hidden by trees/whatever anyway, and in 360° at least around Gotoh.

[Uriel]

Gyo can be in any part of the body. It's usually in the eyes but that's not

In/Gyo mechanism is pretty much like an equivalent of "No rush" in a RTS. When two high level characters meet there's an implicit implication neither will ever use In so they don't have to spend the whole time showing Gyo on their eyes either, because otherewise the whole fight would just be about In/Gyo and you'd never see anything else, because as soon as you miss an In, you'd be dead.
In that you're mistaken. Biscuit almost was ANNOYINGLY when repeating that ANY strange move of the opponent demanded instant Gyo. Same as sustained Ren. And it's not only because of Bomber: ANY battle needs a fast analysis so that is a given.
It's a completely newbie mistake to not use it.

And I still believe all techniques (Shu, In, En, Ren, Ten, Gyo, Kou, Ryu) function with levels. If two Nen users of the same school and with the same strength uses Shu in two identical swords and clash each other the one who have a better Shu will win and broke the other one.
An example of levels was En of Meryem and Pitou. They both use it very differently, but Meryem in the second form was able to feel even texture. And it was stated as EN and not something else. It was a whole new level. Pitou in the side of the "still doable" had an En that worked as radar with a peak. That's a new level of En.
Even amount of Aura determine the levels of the basic techniques.

IMHO.

[ErosVp]

Sometimes people here get really obcessive with some details and kind of ruin the joy of the discussion...

[Phantron]

Gyo can be in any part of the body. It's usually in the eyes but that's not

In that you're mistaken. Biscuit almost was ANNOYINGLY when repeating that ANY strange move of the opponent demanded instant Gyo. Same as sustained Ren. And it's not only because of Bomber: ANY battle needs a fast analysis so that is a given.
It's a completely newbie mistake to not use it.

And I still believe all techniques (Shu, In, En, Ren, Ten, Gyo, Kou, Ryu) function with levels. If two Nen users of the same school and with the same strength uses Shu in two identical swords and clash each other the one who have a better Shu will win and broke the other one.
An example of levels was En of Meryem and Pitou. They both use it very differently, but Meryem in the second form was able to feel even texture. And it was stated as EN and not something else. It was a whole new level. Pitou in the side of the "still doable" had an En that worked as radar with a peak. That's a new level of En.
Even amount of Aura determine the levels of the basic techniques.

IMHO.

The problem with In/Gyo is that although the story tries to make it sound like you use Gyo to counter 'weird stuff' so therefore you can potentially beat Gyo by pretending you're not doing anything 'weird', if you look at the definition of In, it is pretty much a guaranteed kill move if not countered.

Let's say you're fighting Franklin. He does his aura machine gun, but you don't have Gyo on, and you only see 9 aura bullets. Where is the 10th one? He's hidden that with In and that just shot you through the head, and now you're dead. There is absolutely nothing 'weird' or 'strange' about such an attack. It can be a perfectly valid opening move and without Gyo you'd have died against his first attack.

When Hisoka raised his hand against Kastro he shot the bungee gum to Kastro's jaw, and that was hidden by In. Let's say you've Zeno in this position. He has identical school type as Hisoka, so all his tactics should be valid in Hisoka's position. What if he just do his dragon projectile attack (hidden by In)? Then that'd just blow off Kastro's face and he'd be dead, and he can't dodge it since he didn't see it either. From Kastro's point of view you'd just see this guy that has a standard one hand high one hand low that looks roughly like a clawing stance. Sure you can say Zeno has to gather more aura to do that attack compared to Hisoka's bungee gum, except In hides aura so you still won't be able to see the difference.

The problem is that while Togashi may want us to believe you only use In on sneaky type attacks, given the definition of In (hides aura signature), there's no reason to not apply it over perfectly straightforward attacks either. Since Gyo is presumably physically viewable, you don't even have to guess. If you don't see the other guy's eyes glowing then he's not using it, so that means you should use In immediately. There seems to be some kind of implicit assumption like "In cannot be directly paired with a lethal ability" (though I can't imagine why Chain Jail isn't considered lethal), but even if you materialize a normal rock and throw it at someone's face, with HXH level strength, that'd probably be fatal if not detected.

[Uriel]

Thing is that if you don't use Gyo you WONT see ANY attack. Period. And Zeno probably uses In as well, the only fight we saw was with a high leveled Nen user.

And I'm sure you noticed that since (and with) Chimera Arc, Togashi has making it granted that they mostly uses Gyo in every fight. It's implied.

[Federicoxxx]

Using Gyo. .with Hisoka. .is almost useless due to the nature of bungee gum ....

you can avoid it if he somehow trow the aura 2 you... but since stick to the enemy with mere touch..

even blocking is useless..... you have to avoid ANY PHYSICAL contact at ALL ..with HISOKA..

an almost impossible task...all this was explained on heaven arena vs gon..

is old news..

[Phantron]

Using Gyo. .with Hisoka. .is almost useless due to the nature of bungee gum ....

you can avoid it if he somehow trow the aura 2 you... but since stick to the enemy with mere touch..

even blocking is useless..... you have to avoid ANY PHYSICAL contact at ALL ..with HISOKA..

an almost impossible task...all this was explained on heaven arena vs gon..

is old news..

Anyone who is physically stronger can simply pull the gum in the opposite direction (i.e. versus clone #13 on Razor).

[Lightmgl]

Make sense.
But, the payment for that wish might be very very big.

But thats the beauty of it, would there be a payment once her own Nen Power is removed? The payment comes after the wish so if the wish is made and her power is taken away, then in theory the price would never happen.

HxH tends to be a bit morbid at times but it is still Shounen and I can't see them hurting Killua's character in the way that it would be damaged if something were to happen to Alluka, it would destroy him and probably cause him to lose all of the "normalcy" that he has gained with Gon since the start of the series.

What I'm interested in seeing is what the "price" will be for curing Gon. Another thought about the whole situation, could it be possible that Alluka can pay the price for the wish herself? Theres tons of ways they can go with this.

I highly doubt Killua's family would have any issues with Alluka losing his/her powers since it removes the risk of him/her killing the family. It is possible that nobody has ever thought of asking Alluka to remove his/her own powers or Killua's extra knowledge of the rules allows him to find a loophole.