PDA

View Full Version : Discussion Most Preferable Claymore Technique



melvo 17
December 09, 2011, 12:23 AM
id prefer techniques like the dust eater and phantom mirage

jus curious wat technique u guuys prefer

spit
December 09, 2011, 01:19 AM
if you mean fav technique definitely what teresa has.. if the wielder is on par with enemy on speed, stamina an other physical abilitties then it renders any other technique useless - it doesnt work on priscilla or new phantom mirage doesnt use yoki so im not sure f it work tere either but teresa has 'godly' technique kinda the same way aizen could pwn all

Alisia
December 10, 2011, 02:04 PM
My favourite technique is windcut of Flora. This is the most difficult of all the other.

I don't know if we can call it a technique, but those of miata, about the sixth sense is the better.

HegemonKhan
December 10, 2011, 03:16 PM
These probably aren't what you consider as techniques, but here's mine:

1. Yoki Synchronization Ability (YSynA)
2. Yoki Focusing Ability (YFA)
3. Pre-emptive/Pin-point Yoki Sensing Ability (PYSA)

Falcor
December 10, 2011, 04:37 PM
id prefer techniques like the dust eater and phantom mirage

My favourite technique is windcut of Flora.
I'd definitely agree that speed-based techniques such as those listed above, plus Hysteria's elegance, are among my favorites; but the one technique I place above all others is Ilena's quicksword. Naturally, Clare's version - combining her PYSA ability with the quicksword technique, makes it bar-none the most impressive if not most powerful sword-based attack/defense. Miria's phantom mirage would be a close second, especially if combined with Hysteria's elegance to add more offensive capability.

Khorr
December 10, 2011, 10:12 PM
I'm not sure if this counts as a technique but I would have to go with instant regeneration or super fast regeneration at least. It's not flashy but it's pratical for sure and it's what make Awaken Priscilla so powerful.

wickedsmile
December 11, 2011, 12:24 PM
I'm with Khorr on this one. I prefer the techniques that are more subtle, although regenerating an arm within a few moments is a cool feat of its own. It doesn't have the high caliber wow factor of the Windcutter or the Elegance. However, it proved a life saver and highly practical. Deneve should have died many times over without such a wonderful skill. she lost her left arm to the spiderman AB in the Slasher's Arc, had her entire torso nearly vertically severed by Isley and lost her right arm (several times) to the Destroyer.

Plus one for the warp speed regeneration and youki synchronization/control that Galatea has.

eefrit
December 11, 2011, 07:13 PM
I love the Dust Eater and, while it is not named, I like Dietrich's falling slash. Also, while she didn't have a technique, I liked Alicia's swordsmanship.

SaphG1
December 13, 2011, 03:07 AM
Hard to say for me especially when picking between offensive and defensive Claymores. Offensive types are generally "body manipulation" and "attribute heighten abilities" while Defensive types have more "Yoki manipulation/sensory" and "Regeneration". Some of my favorites are the more unusual ones from either category. Here' in rough order are my favorite Techniques (Not claymore who use them ^^)

Miata's perfect Synesthesia made her my favorite. She's literally like a type two Teresa, with all the same capabilities but using a completely different method to reach the same goal. It's like having two parallel lines of research that reach the same result, epic. Lets also keep in mind Miata was killing Yoma and awakened beings flawlessly while downing energy suppressants every day and being that god damn adorable at the same time. i expect awesomeness in her future.

Ilene's Quick sword. I'm picking Irene's over Clare's because simply put the level of mastery shown by Irene is just so flawless compared to Clare. While Clare does both Wind cutter and QS, Irene's QS was more like the perfect combination of the two leaving nothing to be desired. Even after the time skip we still get a more of a sense of movement in Clare's windcutter and Quick sword. With Irene it was so flawless that her cape showed no movement when she used it against Ophelia or when she kept direct blade to blade pressure on Teresa's sword while at the same time striking in dozens of places, that's Millisecond speed right there.

Cassandra's Dust eater for being not only interesting and extremely powerful but for the interesting way it uses the head itself as its fulcrum while not losing the ability to move dynamically. you don't just swing your body around with the dust eater your capable of movements well beyond the full range of motions of other Claymores and then some.

Ophelia's Rippling sword is an awesome technique which uses undulation to not only trick the eye but circumvent common blocks. Its a technique that struck me as almost a little to clever for such a monstrous personality like Ophelia to produce, and yet exactly matching her style

Audrey's Gentle sword is another win for me this is really one of the first defensive type ability we've seen that isn't revolved around Yoki manipulation or regeneration. That alone made it unique in a way that stood out to me. imagine if clare could do this trick with the speed of the quick sword.

Teresa's unparalleled Yoki Sensory. Of course this is an amazing ability but what i find more amazing if that she seems to be one of the only offensive types to have taken what is generally a Defensive type ability and push it to such an extreme that it becomes a perfect weapon. Her sensory ability operates completely different then other great wide range sensors like Galatea and Renee making it even more notable.

Yuma's sword throw. There is no better way to teach a b***h a lesson then to let them get a hundred yards away then put a sword in his spine. Though it lacks in some ways its another one of those unique attacks on a defensive warrior. we can all wait for the day she bends her sword and turns it into a boomerang ^^

melvo 17
December 14, 2011, 08:28 PM
o u prefer special abilities rather than techniques?

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 PM ----------

u prefer special abilities than techniques?
These probably aren't what you consider as techniques, but here's mine:

1. Yoki Synchronization Ability (YSynA)
2. Yoki Focusing Ability (YFA)
3. Pre-emptive/Pin-point Yoki Sensing Ability (PYSA)

HegemonKhan
December 14, 2011, 11:03 PM
yes, as it's the Abilities that enable the Sword Techniques and/or other Abilities, hehe :D

Also, I just merely chose the most powerful ones, imo, and so they were these Abilities.

lolzasas
December 15, 2011, 09:05 AM
i prefer elegant step + helen's flexible limbs

:)

spit
December 15, 2011, 10:41 AM
yes, as it's the Abilities that enable the Sword Techniques and/or other Abilities, hehe


great answer... when something is just result of something else there is no reason to stay at 'old' level as a science-freak i can easily tell that this is what drives scientists go to great lengths to get to the core of everything...


btw that pre-emptive pint point yoki whatever sensing (who did come up with the name?) is teresa's ability right? do someone know how much clare makes out fof it because i am still bugged how much she uses it (i didnt reread manga yet so im quite foggy on details now)

more techniques i like:
quicksword - well it is badass, and with clares sensing its awesome yet i like it more when Irene uses it because she is its creator so i can 'feel' this combo of awesomnes

phantom mirage - well it is kinda pretty, elegant technique maybe not so much in claymore world but on itself - teleportation and afterimages its nice but its messy technique when it comes to execution (recent chapters just prove how messy it can be) and the same goes to Elegance which is basicly the same thing
although quicksword isnt any less messy if i have to say...
still one of my most fav

galatea's ability (sorry duno name (probably one of those cool weird names HK wrote) - im just completely dissa[pponted in its effectiveness even more because of being so cheap when used by #3.. it is supposed to be far superior to something like Phantom Mirage but it doesnt seem like it is the case

rippling sword - suits ofelia well, i like it bit less but it LOOKS (only) superior to most of sword techniques just like quicksword although its clearly not on par with QS so it is just looks maybe)

soul link - well great thing, synchronizing minds? what is there not to like just to imagine the intelectual level needed to achieve sth like that - so its like technique for smart-asses maybe? i want to see soul link done by non relatives!

i have to say though if there was one character in this manga that would effectively use that yoki pin point sensing that would ease the sadness i still feel for Teresa...

HegemonKhan
December 15, 2011, 07:24 PM
btw that pre-emptive pint point yoki whatever sensing (who did come up with the name?) is teresa's ability right? do someone know how much clare makes out fof it because i am still bugged how much she uses it (i didnt reread manga yet so im quite foggy on details now)

Pre-emptive/Pinpoint Yoki Sensing (PYS) Ability (PYSA):

1. Pre-emptive Yoki Sensing (PYS) Ability is the oldest name-title-description of it, and it goes way too far to know who "coined" it first, lol

2. I add the A at the end, for PYSA. Also, for personal use only, I call it the Electrode-Like Yoki Sensing Ability (ELYSA).

3. And yes, PYSA, is Teresa's and Clare's exclusively named Ability in the manga.

4. However, some people argue that other Claymores can use the PYSA too.

5. The manga never actually directly shows Teresa having-using it however. All we got is the text, saying that Teresa has the PYSA, mainly through Irene, and Teresa herself against 70% YR Orcish Priscilla (and when against No YR Claymore Priscilla - as since Teresa couldn't even Yoki Sense Priscilla, Teresa is not able to use her PYSA). Teresa is never touched, which might be the PYSA or simply her Supremacy of Power, of her Physical Abilities. This is a common debate within the Teresa vs Priscilla debate.

6. The "Faint Smile" does NOT reference Teresa's PYSA, Irene got this incorrect. Orsay actually correctly explains that the "Faint Smile" references Teresa's Supremacy of Power. Teresa is so powerful, she NEVER has to YR against any opponent (until and only against 70% YR Orcish Priscilla), not even AO Rosemary. And since Teresa NEVER has to YR, her face never becomes distorted, her lips-smile never becomes distorted, hence her title of "Faint Smile". But, some people argue-debate against this as well.

7. Clare however is shown directly having-using the PYSA, and quickly mastering it.

8. Since the PYSA is a Yoki Sensing Ability (YSenA), the more the opponent uses-relies on Yoki or the greater amount of YR (Yoki Release), the easier they become for Clare (and Teresa) and her (their) PYSA. Miria realizes this, as she watches Clare save their AB Hunting Squad from the Lido "Spiderman" male AB, as she's lying on the ground with its tongue, fondling around inside of her stomach-body. Clare directly trained in the PYSA, to use to execute the greatest Yoki Releasing-Using-Having opponent, Awakened Priscilla.

However, No YR Teresa was NOT able to "read" or sense (presumably meaning unable to use her PYSA, if Teresa even actually has the PYSA... I am entertaining this idea of Teresa not having the PYSA a bit, hehe) 70% YR Orcish Priscilla, as there was just too much Yoki coming from her body. This leads to another big debate, was Teresa unable to have-use her PYSA against 70%+ YR Orcish Priscilla, or was Teresa again able to use-have her PYSA once she herself YR'ed to 10%, against 70%+ YR Orcish Priscilla, which makes a huge difference in the Teresa vs Priscilla debate.

---------------

Clare's Progression with the PYSA

1. There might be some signs of Trainee Clare using the PYSA already... she could Yoki Sense the NY better than the other rival Trainee, saving the rival Trainee quite a few times actually, hehe.

2. Clare is not Supreme like Teresa, so Clare gets hit, as she doesn't have the Power, the physical abilities, that Teresa has. And so, Clare uses the PYSA instead to allow the attacks to narrowly miss her vital organs, narrowly miss being fatal to her. Clare can't avoid the attacks, but with the PYSA, she can keep the damage from being fatal, and even non-injurious most of the time.

And/Or,

Clare allows herself to be hit intentionally to deceive enemy and ally alike, to hide how Powerful she actually is, to appear "weak-Clarice-like". She uses the PYSA to do this, allowing the attacks to just narrowly miss her vital organs, and thus her opponents (and allies) think she's weak and injured, when she's not... to her opponents' and allies' great surprise. As, Clare (and Priscilla) IS (ARE) deceptive, taught by the Master of Deception himself, Rubel, hehe.

Seeing NYs' tentacles pass through her stomach missing her vital organs, seeing a NY's punch-fist-arm passing through her stomach and making a hole in it, lol, still missing her vital organs and/or as well as her "Grotesquity" and/or implantation surgical scars. Also, we've got the SNY's (Super NY... or maybe it actually was an AB... The cathedral NY in the early chapters) attacks missing her vital organs as well, though she is in a coma for (I think) about a week or was it 3 days, meh.

3. After Clare becomes a HA, she seems to now be much more powerful than before... (ignoring a theory I have arguing that actually Clare was powerful prior to becoming a HA). Clare is able to now take on a group of NYs easily. Miria isn't too thrilled with Clare's cockiness... except... Miria sensed (as Miria's an Eye herself, albiet a weaker Eye than the other Eyes) that Clare had an immense power (the greatest amount of power that Miria has ever sensed-known, which would mean Clare had more power than Ophelia... as Miria definately knew Ophelia) to back up her cockiness, hehe.

anyways... back to Clare's PYSA.

4. Clare vs Miria Spar Match #1

To Deneve and Helen, who were ignorant, they thought that Clare sucked. Miria did as well, perplexed by Clare's poor sparring performance.

However, later during the Lido "Spiderman" male AB Battle, Miria realized the truth...

Clare was sparring against Miria purely on Yoki Sensing alone (like how martial artists train-while fighting blind-folded), and that was some amazing Yoki Sensing, as Miria wasn't YR'ing at all... yet Clare with her PYSA could still sense Miria's Yoki anyways, and successfully parry-spar against Miria.

Clare was intentionally practicing her PYSA against Miria! Clare wasn't merely practicing her swordsmanship against Miria in their sparring match #1, as Deneve, Helen, and Miria too had thought, thus thinking that Clare sucked.

5. The Lido "Spiderman" male AB battle

Clare shows us the Power of her PYSA use!

Of the 4 of them, Clare is unharmed, while Helen wails thinking that they're all dead, hehe. So, when Clare gets up to save Miria and the rest of them, they're all stunned, hehe. Miria then realizes the truth, about their sparring match #1, as Clare is seen to dodge the attacks BEFORE the attacks come at her.

However, Clare still can't use her PYSA at the same time as when she goes on offense. Clare has to focus on PYSA defense, but she can't keep her PYSA when she switches to offensive mode, and attacks. Clare's not stupid, she knows, she needs more training at her PYSA, as she replies back angrily to rude Miria, ~"I know, dammit! Why do you think I sparred against you by my PYSA alone?! I' trying to improve upon using it, durr!"

6. Claymore Ophelia Battle

we see Clare's super power that Miria sensed, albiet very briefly. Rank 4 Claymore Ophelia and single digit (rank) Gonal female AB "Wyvern", couldn't even see Clare as she overpowered Claymore Ophelia's hand holding her face into the ground, Re-Attached her legs, sliced right through the female AB, rescuing Raki, and standing with him next to her on the other side. Both of them had their mouths on the ground... hehe.

Anyways... about the PYSA, we see Clare using it to parry Claymore Ophelia's attacks (after she separated from Raki), however the PYSA was useless against Claymore Ophelia when she used her Rippling Sword as (theory) it is purely a physical Sword Technique, there's no Yoki emitted-used for it, and thus why the PYSA was useless. So, Clare had to rely on her eyesight, however, due to its high speed of vibrations (similar to how asians put the feathery thing of the tip of their spears, to distract the eye from being able to follow the location of the spear point-tip) Clare was not able to follow it with her eyesight, and so she got sliced up by it. Clare could PYSA sense the Yoki within Claymore Ophelia, and that's how she knew where and how she'd get cut, but because the attack itself couldn't be sensed by her PYSA nor seen-tracked by her eyesight, she couldn't time the parrying of Ophelia's Rippling Sword.

Clare is still using the PYSA only on defense, against Claymore Ophelia's onslaught of attacks hehe.

7. Awakened Ophelia Battle

Finally, we are possibly seeing Clare using her PYSA while on offense (or she's able to instantly switch from defensive PYSA to normal offense to defnsive PYSA), unless it is merely her QS instead, meh. Irene's tutoring of the Yoki Focusing Ability and thus of the QS, likely is the reason for Clare's improved performance, as well as the additional strength and speed of Irene's Arm too, hehe.

However, Clare is still missing the "final lessons" in using the QS, which Awakened Ophelia finishes up for Irene, and for Clare, at-in sacrifice for-of her own life. Ophelia realizes she's not powerful enough to kill Priscilla (maybe she truly did recognize-realize Clare's super power back when Clare stunningly displayed it briefly in rescuing Raki), and now that she was an Awakened herself, she had already failed anyways. So, it was up to Clare to carry out her revenge, and so Awakened Ophelia helped complete Clare's QS and/or Yoki Focusing Ability.

8. Witches Maw Battle

Clare is definately now using her PYSA offensively, as well as being able to control and even Project her QS, seen against Dauf, and then against the tree behind Jean after the Witches maw and right before or as Rafaela+Rubel approach them.

9. Rigardo Battle:

Clare is obviously fully able to use the PYSA on offense, lol.

10. etc..

11. Priscilla+Destroyer's Volley

Clare's PYSA like never before!

Clare's able to sense Priscilla's approach, despite all the massive Yokis all around her, while sensing all of the Huge Projectiles' trajectories, positioning Deneve and Helen at safe spots, and while YR'ing herself too...

Ya, Clare has perfected the PYSA, and maybe even beyond... hehe :D

--------------------------------------------------------

My understanding of the PYSA:

It is merely a "warning system", and even when "warned" by the PYSA, the user must still have the actual physical abilities to react to the attack.

for explanation:

A non-boxer would watch the fists-hands of the boxer, having no warning time of the punch that is about to be made by the boxer.

a boxer would instead watch the shoulders of the other boxer, to see the contraction of the muscles, before his fist-hand-arm ever starts moving, giving a few more nanoseconds, to dodge the in-coming punch.

Normal Yoki Sensing Ability (NYSA) could be thought of as like this, except instead of watching the muscles of the shoulder with the eyes, they sense the E-M field building up around his shoulders-arms, and/or seeing the electrical-chemical current traveling the nerve into his shoulder muscles. Think of NYSA as an X-Ray.

Acute Yoki Sensing Ability (AYSA), such as like Galatea and Tabatha have, can be thought of as seeing the beginnings of the punch at the cellular level. Think of the AYSA as a MRI

PYSA then could be thought of seeings the beginning of the punch at the atomic level. Think of the PYSA as an Electron Microsope.

or...

NYSA is seeing the outside energy-Yoki build up.

AYSA is seeing the inside energy-Yoki build up.

PYSA is seeing the creation of the spark (the synapsis, the synapic gap) that becomes the energy-Yoki build up.

biology links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nervous_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synapse
https://www.google.com/search?q=synaptic+gap&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YYrqTo_OCJP9iQK1zsGwBA&sqi=2&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=571
http://www.biologyguide.net/bya7/bya7-16-7.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_synapse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_synapse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_impulse

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------


galatea's ability (sorry duno name (probably one of those cool weird names HK wrote) - im just completely dissa[pponted in its effectiveness even more because of being so cheap when used by #3.. it is supposed to be far superior to something like Phantom Mirage but it doesnt seem like it is the case

No one really has made a name for this yet actually, but we abreviate it when applying it into our fan-made equations-formulas:

GM = Galatea's Multiplier

---

This is very quickly-poorly done pretend-amounts example (I have others that are better done)

BPL = Base Power Level
FPL = Final Power Level
GM = Galatea's Multiplier
AM = Awakening Multiplier
YR = Yoki Release Percent

BPL x YR x GM x AM = FPL

Human:

1 BPL = 1 FPL

Clarice:

10 BPL x 10 YR = 100 FPL
10 BPL x 70 YR = 700 FPL

Claymore Ophelia:

100 BPL x 10 YR = 1,000 FPL

Galatea:

75 BPL x 10 YR x 2 GM = 1,500 FPL

Awakened Ophelia:

100 BPL x 10 YR x 2 AM = 2,000 FPL

Irene:

200 BPL x 10 YR = 2,000 FPL

Claymore Priscilla:

1,000 BPL x 10 YR = 10,000 FPL

Teresa:

7,000 BPL x 10 YR = 70,000 FPL

Awakened Priscilla

1,000 BPL x 10 YR x 2 AM = 20,000 FPL
1,000 BPL x 100 YR x 2 AM = 200,000 FPL

Teresa:

7,000 BPL x 20 YR = 140,000 FPL
7,000 BPL x 30 YR = 210,000 FPL
7,000 BPL x 70 YR = 490,000 FPL

7,000 BPL x 100 YR = 700,000 FPL

Awakened Teresa:

7,000 BPL x 10 YR x 2 AM = 140,000 FPL
7,000 BPL x 100 YR x 2 AM = 1,400,000 FPL

ZERO PHOENIX
December 20, 2011, 09:31 AM
id prefer techniques like the dust eater and phantom mirage

jus curious wat technique u guuys prefer

Same here. The Dust Eater is one badass technique and immensely practical too. Nevermind the fact that her technique was already practical but even as an AB Cassandra's speed has to be tremendous in order to move a body of that size and easily evade all of Roxanne's attacks.



if you mean fav technique definitely what teresa has.. if the wielder is on par with enemy on speed, stamina an other physical abilitties then it renders any other technique useless - it doesnt work on priscilla or new phantom mirage doesnt use yoki so im not sure f it work tere either but teresa has 'godly' technique kinda the same way aizen could pwn all

Teresa doesn't have any signature techniques. Irene was quite clear on that. :-_- You're confusing techniques with raw skill. As Irene explained Teresa didn't have any techniques but her skill level with regards to sensing yoki was so much higher than all the other Claymore that she never really needed a particular technique anyway because she could sense her opponents attacks. Sensing yoki is a skill that most Claymore have to some degree so it's not a technique.

zushiko
December 25, 2011, 08:11 AM
I kinda like Shadow Chaser (Nina #9) she can follow or track the yoki of a being and match speed but in return you lack in defense but if you can accompany it with other techniques it would be perfect.

HegemonKhan
December 25, 2011, 09:56 PM
That is what amazes me about Cassandra, she was parrying Nina's Shadow Chaser/Hunter while also parrying Audrey and Rachel too.

spit
December 28, 2011, 11:04 AM
Teresa doesn't have any signature techniques. Irene was quite clear on that. :-_- You're confusing techniques with raw skill. As Irene explained Teresa didn't have any techniques but her skill level with regards to sensing yoki was so much higher than all the other Claymore that she never really needed a particular technique anyway because she could sense her opponents attacks. Sensing yoki is a skill that most Claymore have to some degree so it's not a technique.

if teresa doesnt have any technique at all (so you say) that that is even better, than she is even more pure - she needs even less to be capable of so lot, what i meant by godly technique is exactly that, exactly what i like about her - simple and superior, it is clean not messy (not physicaly but as concept)
forgive me for some abstractism.. just cant help but try to describe it more effectively - i think PYSA is close to 'root'/maternal/original claymore ability and still manage to be effective agaist such wide range of other techniques that it gives it great ratio - 'whats needed/what it can do' ratio or premise/capability ratio
i could say id
t differently, lets say each unique technique has some set of other techniques that it is effecient agianst, this set is subset of all techniques, what i ve bees saying till now is that PYSA has the set of techniques it is efficient against very wide certainly not equal to set of all techniques but definitely largest of all + to be efective user has to have the general capability which if he has then he is capable of going against almost every single technique out there

i hope someone here understands the idea of what i am saying(now im glad i was studying logic)

i partially agree that teresa doesnt have 'real' technique but if that is the case than any yoki sensing technique is not a technique, + are you saying PYSA is not technique? i think thats not the case yes yoki sensing is something that claymores have in common and each individual has different level of the technique, but i wouldnt go that far to say that teresa just has high-level basic claymore skill and therefore it is not a technique
that kinda goes to the question What is the difference between skill and technique?
insinctively id say
skill: = having experience
technique: skill that is distinguishable from others in short if someone has better yoki sensing than someone else, it is still yoki sensing, so they have the same abillity
but
PYSA - pin point yoki sensing isnt yoki sensing because but ITS SUBSET (same as all techniques that use yoki are in fact only types of one 'root' ability - using yoki) - pysa is TYPE of yoki sensing in my opinion it is abillity
therefore
if you say PYSA is not a technique than all yoki based techniques are one technique

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/skill : skill=technique

so does anyone agree with me or disagree, pease state you opinions im curious

HegemonKhan
December 29, 2011, 01:31 AM
for my own usage of "nomenclature-lexicon",

Ability 1 = anything = Arm Extension, PYSA, QS, NYSenA (Normal Yoki Sensing Ability), STR, AGI, SPD, RT, AQ, and etc
-or-
Ability 2 = anything (except Sword Techniques) = Arm Extension, PYSA, NYSenA (Normal Yoki Sensing Ability), STR, AGI, SPD, RT, AQ, and etc

Technique = Sword Technique = QS, PQS, WC, DS, SC or SH, and etc...

Skills = Sword Techniques and Abilities

(I should get some set standard for myself for these terms, lol. I need to clearly separate them from each other, as it's totall chaos right now, lol)

-----------------------

I have an old theory:

While as boringly "conventional" as Teresa+Priscilla+Irene+Sophia+Noel Battle was (excluding Irene's QS), that actually means they must have been incredibly powerful !!! Fancy Abilities and Sword Techniques are for the WEAK, the powerful don't need any fancy abilities or sword techniques, but that means they fight boringly "conventionally", and we mistakenly are unimpressed by them and wrongly think they're weaker compared to others of same rank, who fight more "excitingly" and "unconventionally" with fancy abilities and sword techniques.

In other words:

rank 3 Sophia and rank 4 Noel would PWN rank 3 Blind God Eye Galatea, rank 3 Audrey of the Gentle Sword, rank 4 Ophelia of the Rippling Sword, and Rachel of the Strong Sword, hehe :D Who said that the older Era Claymores are weaker than the newer? hehe.

spit
December 29, 2011, 08:54 AM
so HK says |techniques|+|abilities|=|skills|

if you dont know what |skills| means: X- some set, |X| - number of elements in this set |X|- cardinality of X
exampla: class that has 30 students in it, if a class woud be a set of students than |class|=30

i guess that is how ZERO PHOENIX percieves it too

but isnt ability something you can do? that would mean |techniques|+|skills|=|abilities|
but still i think skill and ability is rather synonymous

1 i understand you want to differentiate all abilities claymores have into those they can use naturaly and ones that can be learned as to using some tool i dont know how to do it (the names for the categories) but using ambiguous terms is not the right way

sorry for being smartass... i like clear distinctions so i try to have clear views->
-ability http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ability = something you can do so all techniques skills anything claymores can use
-skill http://www.thefreedictionary.com/skill = synonym for ability
-technique http://www.thefreedictionary.com/technique = method of doing something, this is interesting, because according to this technique alone is not what you can, do but how you can do it
in other words, when irene uses QS, she doesnt use quicksword - she is using quicksword method of using sword, in other words she has ability to use sword in certain way

this clearly implies that you CANT compare techniques among themselves however you want, because techniques can be methods of various skills, you can directly compare only tchniques that are of the same skill
sword techniques - methods of using sword quicksword, windcutter, etc
you have then methods of using yoki
yoki methids/techniques (not ones that do something with yoki ones that USE yoki) so if yoki sensing doesnt use yoki it isnt even yoki technique (if you define yoki technique as one that uses yoki of course)

so we can either make two categories of techniques that would be most simple and easy to orientate in
techniques that use tools:
sword techniques: for example what anastasia has etc
non-tool techniques: maybe there are even some that dont use yoki so i leave it at that...

if i wanted to be precise (what i want) then:
techniques that use tools: sword techniques, none-sword tool techniques
non-tool techniques: techniques using yoki, techniques not using yoki

to further support my explanation: |all techniques| is not equal |all abilities/skills| as skill can have more methods of doing it
therefore:
there are skills/abilities
and
there are methods of using skills/techniques |sword T|+|non-sword T|+|yoki using T|+|other|=|techniques|

now i dont know if you agree or not i sticked to original meaning of words and for now i dont see better cathegorizing so im gonna stick to this one unless someone has better

if i should use it then i say
PYSA - yoki using technique (and it definitely should be technique as it is way of using yoki sensing ability)
non-tool techniques - are ones that stem from unique 'root'/original abilities only claymores have, every way of using claymore only non-tool ability is this type, it is their natural unique that differs them from humans therefore having greater than human strength is their ability and using it in some way means having some ability example would be Undine

i think i neatly covered every technique in claymore world

since i got rather off toppic i come back to original question my preffered techniques

of all: PYSA
sword based: quicksword
non-sword based: definitely Anastasia's
yoi using: now im not sure does PYSA use yoki?
non-tool non-yoki: it would be yoki suppression but recently i found out that it uses yoki so i dont know of any now

comparing all techniqeus is not in contradiction with what i said earlier->
(even though you cant compare all techniques on equal terms you still can compare those that doesnt originate from same ability if they have the same variable in common in this case - likabilility
but the most INTERESTING thing is that you cant compare STRENGTH/POWER of technique with all others so you cant compare whether quicksword is more powerfull than yoki sensing they arent based on the same idea and comparing them are useless

its the same as if you compare strength of spaceships(lasergiuns or something) with the strength of human they both have different units of measurement

this should be already clear to OOP programmers where its one of the most important aspect of object oriented programming (yes i like making analogies)

---------- Post added at 02:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 PM ----------


for my own usage of "nomenclature-lexicon",

While as boringly "conventional" as Teresa+Priscilla+Irene+Sophia+Noel Battle was (excluding Irene's QS), that actually means they must have been incredibly powerful !!!

nice catch

HegemonKhan
December 29, 2011, 11:29 PM
ya, I need to distinguish the words-terms better, as they do overlap, and thus have no distinctive meaning, causing confusion and chaos to you poor readers of my posts, lol.

-------------------------------------------

here's a bit better organization, that you might be interested in:

(this is old however)


1. there's 5 types of "abilities" or "skills":

(1) physical Yoma body abilities, NOT requiring a Yoki Ability (2) physical Yoma body abilities, REQUIRING a Yoki Ability (3) Yoki Abilities (4) Sword Technique Abilities, NOT requiring a Yoki Ability (5) Sword Technique Abilities, REQUIRING a Yoki Ability

(1) physical Yoma body abilities, NOT requiring a Yoki Ability:

Shape Shifting Ability (NYs and Awakeneds), Size Shifting Ability (NYs and Awakeneds), Tentacle Ability (Awakeneds and the SNY in the Rabona cathedral), Wing Ability (NYs and Awakeneds, but extremely rare), Teeth Ability (All Yomas), Claw Ability (All Yomas), Arm Extension Ability (Helen, and "Orcish" 70% and more YR Claymore Priscilla), Regeneration Ability (Powerful Claymores and Awakeneds), Rod Ability (Dauf), Projectile Ability (Awakeneds), Awakening Ability (Claymores), Resisting Awakening Ability (Claymores), Arm Twisting Ability (Jean and Helen), Neck Twisting Ability (Ophelia), "Mirage Step" Ability (Miria), Muscle Bulking Ability (Undine, Galatea, and "Orcish" 70% and more YR Claymore Priscilla), and etc.

(2) physical Yoma body abilities, REQUIRING a Yoki Ability:

Partial Awakening Ability, requiring the Yoki Focus Ability. Phantom Step Ability, requiring Yoki Burst Ability.

(3) Yoki Abilities:

Yoki Manipulation Ability (Galatea, Raftela, and Destroyer), Yoki Focusing Ability (Irene, Clare, Nina, and the 3 Abyssal Ones), Yoki Control Ability (Audrey, some of the Pieta ABs, and Destroyer), Yoki Synchronization Ability (some Claymores), Soul Link Ability (Rafaela, Luciela, Alicia, Beth, Trainee Awakening Twin Sister #1, and Trainee Awakening Twin Sister #2), Mind Transfer Ability (Rafaela), Life Transfer Ability (Rafaela), Electrode Like Yoki Sensing Ability (Teresa and Clare), Acute Yoki Sensing Ability (some Claymores and Awakeneds), Normal Yoki Sensing Ability (All Yomas), Yoki Suppression Ability (All Yomas), Distance Yoki Sensing Ability (some Claymores and Awakeneds), Emotional Yoki Sensing Ability (Galatea), Power Level Yoki Sensing Ability (some Claymores and Awakeneds), Multiple Yoki Sensing Ability (some Claymores and Awakeneds), Yoki Burst Ability (Miria), Power Level Multiplier Ability (Galatea), and etc.

(4) Sword Technique Abilities, NOT requiring a Yoki Ability NOR YR:

Windcutter (Flora and Clare), Drill Sword (Jean and Helen), "Dual Swords" (Undine and Deneve), "Jump Sword" (Dietrich), "Strong Sword" (Rachel), "Rippling Sword" (Ophelia), and etc.

(5) Sword Technique Abilities, REQUIRING a Yoki Ability and YR:

Quick Sword (Irene and Clare. Yoki Focusing Ability), Shadow Chaser/Hunter (Nina. Yoki Focusing Ability), "Gentle Sword" (Audrey. Yoki Control Ability), and etc.

spit
January 01, 2012, 12:25 PM
nice HK..

problem one
where does Anastasia's technique goes? into yoki using, physical T? it is true its still using your own body but still, imagine there is technique using some other weapon than sword what is that then?

more than 'sword using techniques' why not use 'tool using techniques'?

i think it is clear that differentiating techniques based on 'yoki use' and 'sword/tool use' is of the same importance therefore there are at least 4 categories necessary

tool+ yoki
tool + non yoki
non tool + yoki
non tool + non yoki

HK, you have 3 categories instead of my first two

why do you think such distinction is needed? can you explain your reasons? im curious
-->
what is the difference between physical technique and yoki technique?

MY SPECULATION
i guess for you yoki technique is pure yoki based techniques, that doesnt go beyond mental level/ is performed purely by ones yoki usage/manipulation without any external changes

that is good, BUT with this you seem to create two levels of abilities

1 realize you have abilities that 'require' yoki ability, according to this, these abilities use other abilities - yoki abilities which would mean there are
low level abilities (yoki abilities)
high level abilities (all other) meaning your 5 categories are not equal

2 even if you mean just that those abilities use YOKI itself, so they are based on yoki of the user and therefore all abilites are on the same level
the problem still remains

- you cant make YOKI USAGE the object of differentiating and then create own yoki category for abilities
- look, you have
sword techniques that use yoki and ones that dont
physical yoma techniques that use yoki and those that dont

your yoki category doesnt have clear distinction, you can label it as 'other' or 'mental' or whatever but in the end, the category will remain just one unique, without fitting distinction from others

in my theory
i use 2 questions to categorize technique to its corresponding category
(does it use tool? does it use yoki?)
in your theory you need 3 such questions
(does it use sword? does it use yoki? does it belong to yoki category?)

in other words i can map my categories into table (2-dimensional map) or matrix but this is impossible for your set of categories

im sure 99% of people now think im total idiot or something, i dont mind, i do this for my own entertainment (not picking on otheres! but argumenting)...

PS: the reason for my long post is because i enjoyed your reply so even though it is negative it is negative in positive light

SaphG1
January 01, 2012, 01:47 PM
Wow, so needlessly overcomplicated these last few posts have been. This is how I look at it.

There are two types of Claymore Techniques/abilities


1. Body manipulation techniques: These are abilities or techniques that require the user to manipulate their form to achieve an effect outside of the realms of a human body. The most basic form of this is standard Yoki Release. Techniques of this type do utilize yoki but depending on the nature of the technique do not always require excessive Yoki release to perform. In such a case the warriors physical prowess must be high enough to perform the technique at a basic level. This effect can be achieved by utilizing lesser or derivative technique's already learned by a warrior or may be innately possible in the technique itself or in body of the Claymore. MOST offensive types use these types of abilities, but not all.

2. Yoki Manipulation techniques: These are techniques and abilities that require the user to manipulate, sense or control the non physical yoma power known as Yoki. The most basic form of this variety is Yoki Suppression. Abilities of this type must meet the requirement of needing little to no physical prowess or resistance to achieve the desired effect. Focused regenerative techniques falls under this category of technique with rapid automatic regeneration as a claymore also being in this category. As before most Defensive types use these abilities but not all.

Really wordy but much easier to understand imo:^_^

HegemonKhan
January 02, 2012, 03:35 AM
Anastasia's "Spider Web Hair" Ability:

#2 from my previous post's quote on my 5 categorization

-> Yoma Body (Physical) = her Yoma hair

-> Yoki Ability ("Magical" or "Force-Star Wars") = despite whatever Yoma hair can do physically (such as how Yoma arms can Extend), there has to be a "magical" component to it still, I would think, anyways - Maybe it is truly Yoma Body (physical) with no Yoki Ability, simple "Hair Extension", like Arm Extension, meh. I'd have to think harder on this, lol.

---------------------------------------------------

I think my previous post's quote explain itself, but I'll try to elaborate further or more clearly:

Yoki Ability = "Magical" or "Force (Star Wars)", "A special Work-Task or Ability done via Yoki itself, an independant Ability of its own". For Example: Galatea using her Yoki (Yoki Manipulation Ability, YMA) to control an opponent's physical body (moving Dauf's punching arms just slightly and causing his fist-fingers to open up-move). An actual Ability of Yoki (Not merely releasing-using Yoki), "Magical Effect or Enhancement" (not merely a physical change), with the Yoki as an Ability. Probably the best example is "Yoki Focusing Ability". This is it's own Ability, a Yoki Ability, which can also be used with the Physical Body for PA, or it also can be used with the claymore sword for QS. Or, maybe the same Ability (some argue-categorize the Yoki Burst Ability as a type of Yoki Focusing Ability), Yoki Burst Ability, which is it's own Ability, a Yoki Ability, but it can be used to presumably the legs, for a speed boost, kinda akin to putting a "rocket" on one's legs, and repeatedly turning it on and off, lol.

The Physical Abilities of the Yoma Body (With or With-Out Yoki Ability) = For Example, With: Miria's PS (she's using her Yoki Burst Ability, Yoki Ability - "Magical", with her physical Yoma body, her legs' running-speed). For Example, With-Out: Arm Extension.

Sword Techniques (With or With-Out Yoki Ability) = these qre unique, so they get their own category. Doing the QS, WC, DS, SC/SH, and etc *ARE* Abilities of "Swordsmanship", not just of the Physical Yoma Body itself. Or think of it this way: you got their own Physical Yoma Body, what they can do with it, and then you got an inorganic, weapon and swordsmanship, and what they can do with it. It's one thing to use your body, it's another thing to wield a sword. Body vs Tool-Weapon, are obviously two different things, both which stand alone as separate Abilities.

-------------------

"@ SaphG",

his categorization is basically the same as mine, except I add in the sub-categories ("with" or "without" Yoki Ability), as well as Sword Techniques

"1. Body Manipulation (SaphG)" -> "(1) physical Yoma body abilities, (Sub-Category 1) NOT requiring a Yoki Ability" and "(2) physical Yoma body abilities, (Sub-Category 2) REQUIRING a Yoki Ability" -HK

"2. Yoki Manipulation techniques (SaphG)" -> somewhat -> "(3) Yoki ("Magical" and "Stand Alone") Abilities" -HK

And, I (HK) have a 3rd Category, of:

Sword Techniques, with the Sub-Categories of "With" and "With-Out" Yoki Ability.

------------------------

I have these Sub-Categories ("With" or "With-Out" Yoki Abilities)... because it does matter a lot... for quite a few things... :D

SaphG1
January 02, 2012, 01:09 PM
As i see it, I totally disagree on the sword techniques sub-catagory area because it's STILL a physical ability of the body. It would be like saying that Irene' or Clare are incapable of moving their arms itself at the high speed of the Quick sword unless they are holding a sword at the time. Or that Helen is incapable of twisting her arm in the manner of the drill sword or extending it unless she has the sword in hand at the time. Obviously this isn't the case, The sword may be the weapon that gives them the most destructive power when using the technique, but all these techniques are completely possible no matter what they are holding at the time, be it a sword, a mace, a dagger, or a blade of grass. So they are actually Yoma body manipulations that are utilize the claymore swords superiority as a weapon, not the other way around.

HegemonKhan
January 02, 2012, 04:46 PM
I do clearly see your point, and agree with it, as yes, ultimately weapon skills are body skills. (Though for humor... would Jean's Drill Sword still be the Drill Sword, without her claymore sword? What, does Jean's hand spin around her elbow, slicing up everything to pieces? That would be funny, haha).

I just separate out Sword Techniques from Body Abilities, as the manga makes such distinction of them.

Also, there is a difference with Yoki attached to their own body vs Yoki attached to their claymore swords.

The Best example of this is Clare's PQS (Projected Quick Sword) or Nina's SC/SH (Shadow Chaser/Shadow Hunter).

Clearly these Abilities stick out as SWORD Abilities, SEPARATE from Body Abilities, as pray tell where's the "body part" involved with Clare's PQS or Nina's SC/SH ????

so... actually... I just shown that the Sword Technique and Yoma Body Abilities are two different things... contrary to the top of this post of agreeing with you.... lol.... and doh !!!

SaphG1
January 02, 2012, 08:37 PM
I've already thought formed thoughts on those actually.

Odds are that a fully released arm as it is, is actually stretching and bending at high speed causing the projection effect. It may simply be that unlike Helen it requires Clare's arm to be fully released during the movement, in fact even though Clare's speed is somewhat inferior to Irene's we're still talking about a level of speed beyond visual perception, We have no idea what her fully awakened arm is doing or even looks like when she's utilizing the QS. No matter how you look at it, something has to change physically with her arm while using the quick sword, if if that change is only momentary, otherwise there would be severe muscle strain and bone breakage almost constantly, considering all the unnatural angles it moves at. I know we all want the QS to be pretty and clean as a technique but that doesn't mean it actually is.

Nina's Shadow chaser is a Yoki manipulation ability, it's really nothing more then allowing her body to follow after a particular energy signature and then setting your body to follow it in a manner similar to a Divining rod. The sword swinging part is not the Shadow Chaser/Hunter, the auto tracking of particular Yoma energies is the technique. In essence she is still capable of using the Shadow chaser without the need of holding a sword and likely without the need to move at all. It's a move that seems rather impressive at first but then you realize exactly why it belongs to a number nine Claymore. It has the benefit of always guiding you to the enemy but aside from that provides no actual force or destructive power outside of the realms of the physical body.

HegemonKhan
January 03, 2012, 02:40 AM
Hmm.. I never have thought of both the PQS (Clare's QS) and the SC/SH could be using Arm Extension... that's an interesting idea... as that works as an explanation of how both can reach their targets without moving-"stepping" closer, and/or around objects (in regards to PQS), lol.

However, I believe that the evidence given goes against this notion of Arm Extension (I'd have to research this though to verify or de-verify myself on this), and also... it's questionable whether Irene's Arm is in an Awakened state or not... as first of all, it's always covered by that leather armband, lol, and second of all, if we look to PA Clare... Irene's arm doesn't change at all, whereas small blades come out of it, as well as the rest of Irene's right side Awakening-changing too. Hence, then why does her arm not change... I feel that this points to Irene's arm, being "unable" to Awaken, fully-IMMUNE to Awakening... 100% YR into the arm and no Awakening of it, *grins*. If Irene could only do the same with the rest of her body... she could be somewhat as the "end game" like HA, lol.

-I am aware that Irene's Arm was initially (prior to Awakened Ophelia finishing Irene's Yoki Focusing lessons at the cost of her own life, lol) causing Clare to Awaken, but my explanation of this would be that while the 100% YR is causing the rest of Clare's body to Awaken, the Arm itself remains NON-Awakening...

or... maybe Irene's Arm is truly in an Awakened state, it's a "permanent" Awakened Arm, hence why it's always seen covered by the leather armband, lol.

spit
January 03, 2012, 06:34 PM
i just somehow lost my latest 'text wall' message stating my opinions on SaphG1's theory i WONT be writing it again...

here is VERY short summary

i like your theory SaphG1, for being simple and encompassing all techniques
but i dont like it because there are still differences between techniques that should be noted and your categories dont show them at all

sword techniques are ways of using sword and therefore even if you say they are result of physical ability and therefore dont need own category, they still need their subcategory unfortunately i dont think I could say (altough you are saying it) all sword techniques are subcategory of your BODY MANIPULATION TECHNIQUES
- 1 body manipulation seems to me to be appropriate for body manipulation (extending changing apparance etc) not moving (like when using sword (yes there are exceptions like (probably) QS))
- 2 i dont think using sword/tool ( talking about PURE sword techniques) is physical technique - its basics lies in using the sword not how you do that using

MY PROBLEM: if i try to make hierarchical subcategories with proper relations, it is no longer so neat and simple

Jullias Ondore
January 06, 2013, 02:18 AM
The ability to half-Awaken.