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View Full Version : Predictions Beelzebub Wild Speculation/Mysteries Thread



Teeba
December 10, 2011, 07:47 AM
Every manga universe has wild card theories that become true, as well as mysteries the author is in no rush to reveal. Here lie a list (or a discussion) on things that make you scratch your head in Beelzebub, as well as pet theories you hope will someday be true...

Things that make me go "hmm":

Who is Saotome's demon contract with?

Is Grandpa Kunieda uncontracted?

Is Beel ever going to wear clothes?

What is Jabberwock's relationship with Laymia?

Things that I kind of want to happen:

Furuichi gets a contract with someone and promptly causes them to lose all their powers. :lmao

Black Hawk
December 10, 2011, 01:27 PM
I want talk about the old Guys. The Grandpas who doesn´t need a contract, i think more about there are all pure Demons. All of them treat there students like demons. XD I think Grandpa is a Demon even like Behemoth and the Saint Ishiyama headmaster. There are all old Demons who live quiet in the human world. I think there are many of them and more and more will come to conquer Beelzebub and his contractor.

About Saomtome i got an other interisting question. When Saotome Safe Oga from the Pillars befor the Training Arc. But non of them was know, what Saotome is or was. I mean when u the strongest from the last world, all other one should know you. Only Jabberwock and Behemoth an all other know Saotome, that was a little bit mystery. That non of the small Demons know the strongest Demon from last war.
About his contractor, that could no other one then King Beelzebub. When he was the Winner of the last War, then his Demon must be the Demon King.

And then lets talk about the biggest mystery in complete Beelzebub. I talk with many Fans about that Charachter. Got Natsume later a bigger Part in Beelzebub. From the first Arc and entries Natsume got always a mystery aura around him. He is the real strongest behind Aoi and Toujou. He always get a own fight or best position and his kick speed and power is amazing and everything it looks like he keep his power low. I will not suprise, when all other got down in the fights against Lunana and Furichi will stay at last or the only one without any cut.

The last opponent from Oga is not Toujou it will be Saotome and Beelzebub Father.

Pirulito
December 10, 2011, 03:16 PM
Seriously, I've already lost my faith in Natsume. I think at the beginning Tamura planned something big for him, but with the recent events Natsume seems to me a strong guy but nothing special. Or it or he is pretty good actor.

Teeba
January 22, 2012, 01:36 AM
In my opinon, Natsume seems pretty developed. He's the kind of guy who'd rather someone else take the lead, while he operates outside of the limelight. I have never though of him as an enigma.

Going back to what Black Hawk was saying...I think its a bit too obvious if Saotome was the contractor to the Demon King, but at least that would explain why the King is enamored with old-school games, if that's what he was exposed to back then.

It would be great for Ikaruga to appear in the manga again, I want to know what kind of demon she's contracted with as well.

Waveblade
September 20, 2012, 07:35 PM
Hey I was doing some rereading and you know the mysterious figure which appeared over the Ishiyama school ruins? I think that was Aoi's mother because girl's hair from the her friend's flashback and the mystery person's matches up.

thatguy3331
September 21, 2012, 10:34 AM
Beelzebub mysteries I'm interested in:

Satome's contractor, Aoi's parents and grandpa, this great war in demon world, what does Beel's dad's face look like and last but not least:

WHO THE FLYING FUCK WAS THE GUY WHO BLOCKED BEELS FOOT IN DEMON WORLD?

I mean seriously we know NOTHING of this guy and from what it looks like, he's in a completely different faction! WHO IS HE?!!?!?

kendama
September 21, 2012, 01:18 PM
If you are doing a quick re-check of loose ends in this series, let me contribute. I'm particularly curious about:

i. How exactly Toujou is getting stronger by the day.

ii. Why it is that Dr. Forcas told Saotome that it would be troublesome if he helped Beel's side too much.

iii. Whether there is significance to the fact that only six humans are strong enough to feel demonic power (Oga, Kunieda, Izuma, Toujou, Miki and Shizuka) and if so, whether said characters are going to become more important (well Oga, Kunieda and Toujou are already important).

(Sometimes I get the feeling that the series was going in one direction around chapter 80, but later Tamura-sensei was told to expand it to make it longer. So he made a major detour and that's why things like item iii, Athrun, the person atop the rubble in chapter 38 and so on were never mentioned again.)

Zasz
September 21, 2012, 03:40 PM
The only thing I want to know right now is what Arthrun (did I write his name right?) is up to and who is his boss.
For the rest, I too think that Saotome could be the contractor of the Demon King; I mean, it wouldn't be impossible.
Strange, no one mentioned Kunieda's mother?

masgrande
September 22, 2012, 11:58 PM
I think Saotome is too young to be the demon lords contractor since Hilda who looks like a teenager or atleast a young adult is over a hundred years old and from what little we have seen of him the demon lord looks like an adult. Another thing that makes me think Saotome isn't the DL cotractor is that the from symbol his hand is different from Oga, and Oga's symbol was suppose to be the symbol of the family.
Athrun should really return, I miss him:scry.

Waveblade
October 08, 2012, 09:43 PM
Hey guys I just remembered a mystery way back from chapter one.

Remember Alaindelon floating down the river? He had an arrow sticking out of his chest and we never found out how that happened or who shot it.

Of course it could have been part of the ploy to drop baby Beel on the hapless chump who found him.

Teeba
October 09, 2012, 09:56 AM
I think Saotome is too young to be the demon lords contractor since Hilda who looks like a teenager or atleast a young adult is over a hundred years old and from what little we have seen of him the demon lord looks like an adult. Another thing that makes me think Saotome isn't the DL cotractor is that the from symbol his hand is different from Oga, and Oga's symbol was suppose to be the symbol of the family.
Athrun should really return, I miss him:scry.

Actually, Saotome does have the same symbol as the royal family. That's why Hilda was shocked when she met him.

Another thing to consider: Saotome's contractee didn't have to be a child. If we assume the Demon Lord is mentally the same age as Saotome, Ikaruga, Kunieda's parents, etc, he could still be a valid choice. Maybe that's why the Demon Lord knows so much about 80s video games and pasttimes, he came to Earth as a teenager and hung out at Ishiyama High with the rest of the gang.


Hey guys I just remembered a mystery way back from chapter one.

Remember Alaindelon floating down the river? He had an arrow sticking out of his chest and we never found out how that happened or who shot it.

Of course it could have been part of the ploy to drop baby Beel on the hapless chump who found him.

!!! I didn't even think of this as a mystery until you said it! Unfortunately, the probability it was just for the gag is high too. :lmao And yeah, maybe Alaindelon did it just to attract attention.

FaustXIII
October 21, 2012, 03:22 PM
About the Old Guys I don't think that they are 100% Demons I think they are defenders from demons who are causing too much trouble in the Human World.

I also think Natsume's character is well developed.

Mystery:
The other demons that are named before Dragons, it was said that powerful demons were named before Dragons right like Jabberwock.

Mystery
Does SATAN exists in the story?

Well Satan and Beelzebub is a different being.

Teeba
January 27, 2013, 04:59 PM
So since the arc may or may not be related to demon contractors, I want to pose a question: which is more likely, a demon with more than one contractor or a human with more than one contractee?

Because I was thinking, we know very little about how contracts work outside of Oga and Beel's very specific arrangement. For example, I doubt the 15m rule extends to other demons since Beel is a baby. If En contracted with someone he might give that person half a kilometer, or something. Also, suppose these three freshmen are contractors -- what if they're all contracted by the same demon? That would actually cause them to function as a unit, even if they don't seem to be related to each other (as of yet).

Also,


Furuichi gets a contract with someone and promptly causes them to lose all their powers. :lmao

I was half-right. :mono

kendama
January 27, 2013, 10:48 PM
So since the arc may or may not be related to demon contractors, I want to pose a question: which is more likely, a demon with more than one contractor or a human with more than one contractee?

Because I was thinking, we know very little about how contracts work outside of Oga and Beel's very specific arrangement. For example, I doubt the 15m rule extends to other demons since Beel is a baby. If En contracted with someone he might give that person half a kilometer, or something. Also, suppose these three freshmen are contractors -- what if they're all contracted by the same demon? That would actually cause them to function as a unit, even if they don't seem to be related to each other (as of yet).



I think the distance rule has to do with the welfare of the demon, so adult demons should impose no such constraints on their contractors. Maybe even En would be quite comfortable with being separated from his contractor.

A human with more than one contractee would ruin the narrative purpose of contracts (the stronger the demon the stronger the human becomes), I guess. And it would allow endless power-ups, thus making a poor plot device.

But a demon with more contractors would be interesting. There are two possible outcomes in the current arc, not mutually exclusive: the demon becomes three times as strong, and the contractors get a third of the demon's power each. That would mean Oga would defeat Nasu pretty easily, but have trouble when facing the three first-years together (thus explaining the New Year Dream).

However, if that were true, wouldn't Hilda prefer to find several strong contractor for Beel instead of relying on Oga solely?

Black Hawk
January 28, 2013, 09:16 AM
I think the distance rule has to do with the welfare of the demon, so adult demons should impose no such constraints on their contractors. Maybe even En would be quite comfortable with being separated from his contractor.

A human with more than one contractee would ruin the narrative purpose of contracts (the stronger the demon the stronger the human becomes), I guess. And it would allow endless power-ups, thus making a poor plot device.

But a demon with more contractors would be interesting. There are two possible outcomes in the current arc, not mutually exclusive: the demon becomes three times as strong, and the contractors get a third of the demon's power each. That would mean Oga would defeat Nasu pretty easily, but have trouble when facing the three first-years together (thus explaining the New Year Dream).

However, if that were true, wouldn't Hilda prefer to find several strong contractor for Beel instead of relying on Oga solely?

I think that make no sense. First the Human Body must be some real special Human, to overstand all the elektronic attacks.. The second thing is the harmonic bondage Beel needs so far. That how the 15 meter rule work. I say later it doesn´t play a bigger role anymore. As example Saotome use Demonic energy of an contractor, but his demon live still in the Demonic world.
Second i don´t think Hilda can´t overstand 3 Human idiots. Ogas stupid actions actions are already enough for Hilda. Three of them, interisting to see Hilda on rampage.

And i agree with you in the other Points. What will be the Sideeffects if a Human has more then one Contract. We saw on Furichi what it can bring to only summon only one Demon. I think by three you die or loose controll of your Body and yourself.

Teeba
February 04, 2013, 05:53 AM
But a demon with more contractors would be interesting. There are two possible outcomes in the current arc, not mutually exclusive: the demon becomes three times as strong, and the contractors get a third of the demon's power each. That would mean Oga would defeat Nasu pretty easily, but have trouble when facing the three first-years together (thus explaining the New Year Dream).

However, if that were true, wouldn't Hilda prefer to find several strong contractor for Beel instead of relying on Oga solely?



i don´t think Hilda can´t overstand 3 Human idiots. Ogas stupid actions actions are already enough for Hilda. Three of them, interisting to see Hilda on rampage.

And i agree with you in the other Points. What will be the Sideeffects if a Human has more then one Contract. We saw on Furichi what it can bring to only summon only one Demon. I think by three you die or loose controll of your Body and yourself.

I don't see it conflicting with Hilda's objective at all. I guess I got influenced by Magi --a really awesome shonen manga-- where you can form contracts with magical djinns, but you can also let other people close to you channel a little bit of that power as well. It would be like a subcontractor or something. But at the same time it probably wouldn't work for Beel since he is a baby. It could be quite taxing for him to connect with another contractor outside of Oga.

Oh well, either way I'm interested in how the Killer Six got their powers, and I hope the explanation makes sense.

Pirulito
February 08, 2013, 08:52 AM
So... with the tissue issue and reading chapter 48, specifically this part http://www.mangareader.net/222-47027-5/beelzebub/chapter-48.html , I thought it would be much more interesting instead of humans making contract with demons every time, the existence of some treasures that give powers to humans, making them able to fight demons.

If Ishiyama Upstarts is related to Athrun, maybe they have some of these treasures?

Black Hawk
February 14, 2013, 03:38 PM
Lets start speculation, with this Chapter there are so much possible Ways it could run. First Natsu is a contractor from a Demon that belongs to the Solomon Company. When i think the first introducing of this Company, was in the Mother of Beel arc. And the Company handle with a Picture that should belong in the Demon World not in the Human World, open the Door for. That the Solomon Company is ruled by Demons, who dealing with human, to destroy the world and Power.

Fuji is the Contractor of Arthrun, also the unknown Family arthrun is working for are not so familiar with the King of the Flies. That could bring us later two a second visit in the Demon World. I don´t think if the King of Hell are knowing there are hunting for Baby Beel, he will do something.

Akia999
February 18, 2013, 07:35 AM
When I was reading the past chapter discussion (the San Marx arc),I notice nobody brought up the issue whether En and Beel have the same mother.It's completely irrelevant,but I always notice things like this.
Hilda only state that Mrs Iris is Beel mother,not En.It got me wondering since Hilda only refer to Iris as Mrs,not some fancy title like the queen or something.She may not be the queen of the demon world at all,just the second wife.And that En's mother is the queen,the first wife.Thus making both En and Beel half brother.I could be entirely wrong and that both En and Beel are full brothers.But with the info that we have so far,I came to that conclusion.
So,does anyone think that both En and Beel share the same mom?
And what are the chances of having another demon prince/princess who ain't a crybaby?

Teeba
February 18, 2013, 10:43 AM
It hasn't been stated explicitly, but Hilda's lecture to Beel when Futaba made him her lackey suggests they have different mothers.

http://i46.tinypic.com/14xcx0g.jpg

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------


So... with the tissue issue and reading chapter 48, specifically this part http://www.mangareader.net/222-47027-5/beelzebub/chapter-48.html , I thought it would be much more interesting instead of humans making contract with demons every time, the existence of some treasures that give powers to humans, making them able to fight demons.

If Ishiyama Upstarts is related to Athrun, maybe they have some of these treasures?

Why didn't I ever comment on this? :XD

Its a great idea. I really hope Tamura expands more on the different ways you can gain powers through demon contracts. Like the tissues -- those are awfully convenient for humans to use, I can't imagine that being the only one of its kind around.

Akia999
February 18, 2013, 10:43 PM
It hasn't been stated explicitly, but Hilda's lecture to Beel when Futaba made him her lackey suggests they have different mothers.

http://i46.tinypic.com/14xcx0g.jpg

I forget about that.I would find it hard to believe if the demon king only had one wife anyway...
Also,En had the entire pillar squad under his command when he came to "destroy humanity" whereas baby beel only had Oga(though he is more than enough),Alaindelon and Hilda when he came to "destroy humanity". It does suggest that there is a disparity of power between them.En may have more connection compare to beel if his mother is of higher ranking.

kendama
February 19, 2013, 06:48 PM
I'm not sure about this. Certainly, Mrs Iris is not referred to as the Queen, so she may be a lesser royal wife. Then again, Beel has inherited his father's name, not En, which may mean that she is the favourite wife (making him the Crown Prince?). (Then again, the Demon King is so random that he refers to Beel as "the kid I just had", so it's really impossible to draw a conclusion.)

But the fact that En has a full elite Squad may have to do with age. I'm still longing for the day when Furuichi will answer the doorbell only to find a legion of demons saying they were sent by the King to be Beel's Squad and are reporting for duty to their presumed General.

Pirulito
February 19, 2013, 07:04 PM
FREAKING AWESOME SCENE, MAN!

Black Hawk
February 19, 2013, 09:28 PM
I'm not sure about this. Certainly, Mrs Iris is not referred to as the Queen, so she may be a lesser royal wife. Then again, Beel has inherited his father's name, not En, which may mean that she is the favourite wife (making him the Crown Prince?). (Then again, the Demon King is so random that he refers to Beel as "the kid I just had", so it's really impossible to draw a conclusion.)

But the fact that En has a full elite Squad may have to do with age. I'm still longing for the day when Furuichi will answer the doorbell only to find a legion of demons saying they were sent by the King to be Beel's Squad and are reporting for duty to their presumed General.

Genius Scene, i was reading it and can´t stop laughing. I really want to see a 1 page Story for it. His Hand in front of his Face, make is cool in easy look. And thinking with his two mind. I make it or what the Hell do all the demons here. With a screaming Face in the Bubble.

Akia999
February 19, 2013, 09:42 PM
I'm not sure about this. Certainly, Mrs Iris is not referred to as the Queen, so she may be a lesser royal wife. Then again, Beel has inherited his father's name, not En, which may mean that she is the favourite wife (making him the Crown Prince?). (Then again, the Demon King is so random that he refers to Beel as "the kid I just had", so it's really impossible to draw a conclusion.)


I don't really understand much about monarchy.But from what I sorta know is that the crown prince is usually the queen's child,not necessary the child of the favourite wife of the king(mostly in china and in korea in the olden day).But then again,there are exception.I do agree that the demon king is random so it is bit hard to determine whether Mrs Iris really is the queen or the favorite wife and why does beel inherit his name.At this stage,it is pretty much speculation on my part.(though I do think she is the favourite wife)


But the fact that En has a full elite Squad may have to do with age. I'm still longing for the day when Furuichi will answer the doorbell only to find a legion of demons saying they were sent by the King to be Beel's Squad and are reporting for duty to their presumed General.

That's true.However,considering how random the demon king is for sending a baby to destroy humanity,he could have at least given Beel an army(which hilda can lead) to destroy humanity.En is also pretty young to have an elite squad under him.All of them are so loyal to him despite him being a clueless,spoiled brat.
As for the second part,it would be pretty epic if that were to happen.:zomg

FanOfAniManga
February 26, 2013, 04:15 PM
Hey guys. Just a reminder, for anyone still calling the new gang leader of delinquents the "Six Upstarts", I made a post (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/81185-Beelzebub-Chapter-190-Discussion-191-Predictions?p=3280651&highlight=#post3280651) explaining why we should be calling them the "Killer Six Elements" instead. I didn't post it here at first because I wasn't aware of this thread. You can read it below:


Hey guys. Well, curiosity has struck me again. And this time, it's in the title of this chapter, which also happens to be the name of this new gang of delinquents.

The original Japanese title of the chapter is 殺六縁起, which seems like it should translate to Killer Six Omens. Neither Ishiyama nor upstarts are referred to in the title.

After playing around Google and Wikipedia, I soon discovered that it's actually a derivative of the expression 六大縁起. It's just like how the title of chapter 12 is a play on the name of a comedy act. At first, I thought Six Great Omens would be an ideal translation. But after playing around some more, I found it to be a little deeper than that. Now, I'm not very knowledgeable on how religion works, but I'll do my best to explain where the expression comes from.

六大縁起, pronounced Rokudai engi, according to Japanese Wikipedia and a few more websites, refers to the "Six Great Elements" from Shingon Buddhism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingon_Buddhism). Typically in Japanese Buddhism, there are five elements (Five elements (Japanese philosophy)): Earth, water, fire, air and void. The sixth element is mind, and these elements combined are taught under the deity (Mahā)Vairocana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vairocana).

With all of that said, I feel it's most appropriate to translate the title and the gang name as the Killer Six Elements on the Wiki.

At the moment I discovered the origin of the chapter's title, I recall that time many months ago when I first discovered a pattern in the names of the 24 Pillar (Generals). It's subtle references like these in which I really want to emphasize the importance of looking for deeper meanings in the manga, especially with a mangaka who seems to know more about the obscure aspects of religion than the average reader.

---------- Post added at 10:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------

P.S.
I was struggling to find the furigana for the title of the chapter and have just found them outside the title page. Having confirmed the pronunciation of the kanji, I now know why the first two are arranged the way they are.

殺六縁起 is pronounced Satsuriku engi. Guess what's also pronounced "satsuriki"? The word massacre, 殺戮.

So there you have it. Another hidden religious reference and another pun lost in translation. Such is the magic of curiosity.

Now, here's another mind blow that just occurred to me, again having to do with the Killer Six Elements. Actually, it's just a speculation, as kendama has pointed out.

In Christian ethics, there's a list of Seven deadly sins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins): lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy and pride.

Now, in 1589, a guy named Peter Binsfield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Binsfeld) paired each of these sins with a demon and called them the Seven Princes of Hell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_demons#Binsfeld.27s_classification_of_demons) in order as follows:

1. pride: Lucifer
2. greed: Mammon
3. lust: Asmodeus
4. envy: Leviathan
5. gluttony: Beelzebub
6. wrath: Satan
7. sloth: Belphegor

Note the presence of Beelzebub, and six others on the list. I think it's about darn time we see them soon.

I should've known this a long time ago because I was already aware Beelzebub was part of that list. I just didn't think about how 7-1=6.

Unfortunately, if Tamura doesn't stretch this long enough, it also might mean that the manga will end soon, probably not within the next few months, but maybe within a year or two; I can't think of anymore (or any more appropriate) antagonists Oga could possibly fight. Considering how much better the anime could've been made, I feel like it's a very big shame. Unless Tamura starts using the demons from other classifications, such as (Kuroshitsuji fans should know this guy) Sebastian Michaelis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastien_Michaelis)' classification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_princes_of_Hell#Michaelis.27_classification_of_demons), Francis Barrett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Barrett_(occultist))'s classification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_princes_of_Hell#Barrett.27s_classification_of_demons), or even a classification by month (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_princes_of_Hell#Classification_by_month) from the 16th century... or if either a remake or at least a series of OVAs are coming soon. Who knows...

kendama
February 26, 2013, 07:17 PM
@FanofAniManga:

Now, I would have had to bite my tongue if I had dismissed your theories before: after all, you are the one who uncovered the demonic alphabet and now the connection with the Six Killer Elements.

But now I will hedge my bets and remain in waiting to see whether this last one will be born out.

Tamura-sensei may choose some elements of Western Demonology to add interesting regularity to the story, but he does so quite randomly. What I mean by that is that he chooses fancy names that fall into a pattern without any worry as to how to be consistent about the original holders of these names. That's why, for example the Pillar Heads have sometimes connections to the original mythical serpents (like Basilisk's paralysing gaze or Naga's riding of a snake-shaped aura), but more often no such connection is evident. For example, Beel's name seems to have been chosen solely because it can be used to make a pun on akanbou and even the connection to flies seems to be used only sparingly and for laughs, at least for now. And of course, Beel does not show signs of gluttony.

So, while it is possible that the Six Killer Elements correspond to the remaining six Capital Sin-related demons, I find it unlikely. My main reason is that they seem to be divided in two tiers: those like Ebian and Akahoshi, who showed surprise and puzzlement at Nasubi's interest in Beel; and those like Nasubi himself who are contractors. In my view, the Three Beasts are contracted, whereas the Three Kings are just very strong newcomers who aren't aware of demons.

Even the issue of whether there is more than one kingdom in the demon world is unclarified.

Finally, there are so many loose ends in this story - I've made a recap in another thread here - that adding another layer of complexity would quite clutter the story. We have Athrun, the person standing atop the rubble on chapter 38, Solomon Company, Mrs Iris, Kunieda's parents, etc. etc. While it is possible to tie everything by relating it to the remaining capital sins, it sounds that this would require improbable connections and leaps of reasoning, especially if the Six Killer Elements are involved as well. It doesn't really sound like Tamura-sensei's style. But hey, what do I know?

Pirulito
February 26, 2013, 07:37 PM
What is Solomon Company? Can't remember that.

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 PM ----------

Forget my question. I googled it.

FanOfAniManga
February 26, 2013, 08:25 PM
@FanofAniManga:

Now, I would have had to bite my tongue if I had dismissed your theories before: after all, you are the one who uncovered the demonic alphabet and now the connection with the Six Killer Elements.

But now I will hedge my bets and remain in waiting to see whether this last one will be born out.

Tamura-sensei may choose some elements of Western Demonology to add interesting regularity to the story, but he does so quite randomly. What I mean by that is that he chooses fancy names that fall into a pattern without any worry as to how to be consistent about the original holders of these names. That's why, for example the Pillar Heads have sometimes connections to the original mythical serpents (like Basilisk's paralysing gaze or Naga's riding of a snake-shaped aura), but more often no such connection is evident. For example, Beel's name seems to have been chosen solely because it can be used to make a pun on akanbou and even the connection to flies seems to be used only sparingly and for laughs, at least for now. And of course, Beel does not show signs of gluttony.

So, while it is possible that the Six Killer Elements correspond to the remaining six Capital Sin-related demons, I find it unlikely. My main reason is that they seem to be divided in two tiers: those like Ebian and Akahoshi, who showed surprise and puzzlement at Nasubi's interest in Beel; and those like Nasubi himself who are contractors. In my view, the Three Beasts are contracted, whereas the Three Kings are just very strong newcomers who aren't aware of demons.

Even the issue of whether there is more than one kingdom in the demon world is unclarified.

Finally, there are so many loose ends in this story - I've made a recap in another thread here - that adding another layer of complexity would quite clutter the story. We have Athrun, the person standing atop the rubble on chapter 38, Solomon Company, Mrs Iris, Kunieda's parents, etc. etc. While it is possible to tie everything by relating it to the remaining capital sins, it sounds that this would require improbable connections and leaps of reasoning, especially if the Six Killer Elements are involved as well. It doesn't really sound like Tamura-sensei's style. But hey, what do I know?

I've been a little slow sorting out the characters and the apparent hierarchy of the six, so I forgot there were two tiers. So I guess it really is just a speculation at best and not a theory, centred around the number 6. Before you mentioned it, it just seemed to match up so well, but then I found that there's also an order to the list of demons. So unless Beelzebub is fifth in something, that probably won't matter anymore than any other random thing in the manga.

By the way, where was it mentioned that the nicknames of these six actually come from the hatsuyume (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatsuyume), with the order of objects in the superstitious phrase the same? I just checked that Nene was repeating the exact expression in chapter 190, which got lost in translation, but the order is the same, in decreasing order of strength. I think it was in a footnote in a chapter somewhere, but I don't remember where.

I'm not sure if any of the loose ends will become directly associated with the elements. But given Tamura's history of resolving almost none of them so far really makes me wonder: When the manga ends, will Tamura have resolved, or just ignored them altogether? As someone always looking for the next big thing in Jump, I find it similar to asking the question: Will a manga become long enough to resolve, or will it be cancelled too soon? A resolved manga has its loose ends tied up and indicates a manga ended naturally, while a cancelled manga has its loose ends poorly accounted for, if at all, indicating a forced ending.

I have no idea how long this manga is going to last because I can't tell how much storytelling magnitude Tamura has; this has STILL only been his first serialization. With all these loose ends all over the place, he's either planning for something extremely long, or is clumsily bringing the manga to a forced, cancelled ending. By thinking he'd associate the elements with something that actually has the greatest possible rhyme, I thought that it could possibly be the beginning of the end, and I'd assume he'd probably forget about tying up those loose ends too, like a cancelled manga. This is one of the main reasons why I hope the manga lasts a long time, along with having the anime redone/continue properly.

As a manga that's not entirely gag-based, it's probably one of the least predictable I've ever read. And when I don't fully understand whatever little patterns come out of it, I might just screw up whatever theory I thought I might have had, kind of like what I just did.

Teeba
February 26, 2013, 09:06 PM
I kind of agree with kendama on this one. Tamura decides his demonic names pretty randomly. I mean, Hilda, Yolda, Sachura, and Isabella don't have corresponding demons at all, just European sounding names. So these new demons could have the names of anything, from the 7 Princes of Hell, to famous historical figures, to pop culture, to anything really. Heck, considering he named the 34th Pillar Squad from the Angelic Alphabet, which is part of the Lesser Key of Solomon, who's to say he won't use the Ars Goetia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_Goetia#Ars_Goetia)? (This would be hilarious, because people have already been comparing the subcontracting to the household vessels of Magi. And Magi too, uses the Ars Goetia. :XD)



By the way, where was it mentioned that the nicknames of these six actually come from the hatsuyume (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatsuyume), with the order of objects in the superstitious phrase the same? I just checked that Nene was repeating the exact expression in chapter 190, which got lost in translation, but the order is the same, in decreasing order of strength. I think it was in a footnote in a chapter somewhere, but I don't remember where.

I mentioned it in a chapter discussion thread before you (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/81185-Beelzebub-Chapter-190-Discussion-191-Predictions?p=3279428&viewfull=1#post3279428). The importance of Oga's dream is explicitly said in chapter 188: the first dream of the year is important, and what you dream about signifies how well the year will be for you. Its literally stated on the first page of chapter 188. Oga dreamt of the perfect combination: eggplant, a hawk, and Mt. Fuji. But when I was trying to find out more about these dreams of the first year, I discovered a blog entry about the six symbols one should dream about on New Years in Japan. Tamura was probably making a very Japanese pun by linking the name, Killer Six Elements, to six symbols that actually represent good fortune.


I have no idea how long this manga is going to last; with all these loose ends all over the place, Tamura is either planning for something extremely long, or is clumsily bringing the manga to a forced, cancelled ending. By thinking he'd associate the elements with something that actually has rhyme, I thought that it could possibly be the beginning of the end, and I'd assume he'd probably forget about tying up those loose ends too, like a cancelled manga. This is the main reason why I hope the manga lasts a long time, next to having the anime redone/continue properly.

As a manga that's not entirely gag-based, it's probably one of the least predictable I've ever read. And when I don't fully understand whatever little patterns come out of it, I might just screw up whatever theory I thought I might have had, kind of like what I just did.

Up until the Tissues Arc, I would agree with you, that Tamura could end the manga however he liked without resolving any of the mysteries previous alluded to. But after the Tissues Arc I find it hard to believe he'd leave something as blatant as Athrun saying he'll meet Oga again, or Ikaruga asking Aoi about her parents hanging. I know it doesn't feel like it, but Beelzebub is still a really compact manga. I'd expect a more longer running series to forget small mysteries like that. Of course the gag part of the manga makes it hard to predict what's going to happen, but I have faith somehow. Regardless how long Beelzebub runs for, I think Tamura already has the answer to these mysteries, he's just waiting on when to reveal them.

If there's one thing I have no faith in, is any kind of decent handling of romance between Hilda, Oga, and Aoi. I'm so glad its been dropped for the time being.

FanOfAniManga
February 27, 2013, 12:42 PM
I mentioned it in a chapter discussion thread before you (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/81185-Beelzebub-Chapter-190-Discussion-191-Predictions?p=3279428&viewfull=1#post3279428). The importance of Oga's dream is explicitly said in chapter 188: the first dream of the year is important, and what you dream about signifies how well the year will be for you. Its literally stated on the first page of chapter 188. Oga dreamt of the perfect combination: eggplant, a hawk, and Mt. Fuji. But when I was trying to find out more about these dreams of the first year, I discovered a blog entry about the six symbols one should dream about on New Years in Japan. Tamura was probably making a very Japanese pun by linking the name, Killer Six Elements, to six symbols that actually represent good fortune.

Yep, that is definitely where I first saw it from, not from a chapter footnote. I totally need to improve my memory. xD

Another aspect of his randomness.

FaustXIII
March 04, 2013, 01:55 PM
I think Akahoshi is the one with the Demon Contract and is holding back that's why he is only Rank 4 in the Six Up Start

though this theory is 80% by intuition/gut and doesn't have enough details for defense :sweat

jakensama
March 21, 2013, 06:24 PM
Angelica's mother is Laymia. She mistakenly believed Alaindelon's incredibly muscular physique was indicative of his strength, his coarse moustache an indication of incredible masculinity. The relationship was short lived (Laymia found out he is nothing like she thought) however produced a child....Angelica.

FanOfAniManga
April 18, 2013, 06:21 PM
About the ending of chapter 201, I didn't think it'd be so blatant, but...

It's highly likely Himekawa is actually a minion of Fuji. Go to page 15 of chapter 190 to see a silhouette of a certain member with a pompadour.

So maybe it was Himekawa who funded the rebuilding of Ishiyama High after all. In fact, it could also explain at least a strategy on behalf of Fuji and co.; it's a way to reunite Oga and all the other former Ishiyama students and take him down, especially with the eggplant and hawk alongside him.

Heck... given that they've called themselves the Fallen Angels...
Maybe finally that Seven Deadly Sins (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/74109-Beelzebub-Wild-Speculation-Mysteries-Thread?p=3325198#post3325198) idea will come into play, and what do you know, you could have six of the seven deadly sins represented by the SIX members of the group (again, check page 15 of chapter 190 and do a head count), with the missing sin represented by Oga possessed by Beelzebub. I guess Himekawa could be possessed by Mammon, assuming he represents the sin of greed.

Of course, given that we still don't know their ulterior motives, anything can happen that can turn my speculation sideways, but it's not so out there now, right?

kendama
April 19, 2013, 05:53 AM
About the ending of chapter 201, I didn't think it'd be so blatant, but...

It's highly likely Himekawa is actually a minion of Fuji. Go to page 15 of chapter 190 to see a silhouette of a certain member with a pompadour.

So maybe it was Himekawa who funded the rebuilding of Ishiyama High after all. In fact, it could also explain at least a strategy on behalf of Fuji and co.; it's a way to reunite Oga and all the other former Ishiyama students and take him down, especially with the eggplant and hawk alongside him.

I also thought along these lines and posted accordingly in Mangafox, but the prevailing theory right now is that, because the name of Daten High translates roughly as "fallen angel", Himekawa's probably (pretending to be?) serving Takamiya. He could still be working as a triple agent and serving both Beasts, of course.

Teeba
April 19, 2013, 06:17 AM
Yeah like I said in the chapter discussion thread, as well as Akia999, Daten blatantly means "Fallen Sky/Heaven" and Fallen Angels as its written on the guy's badge is pronounced "Datenshi" in Japanese. For the guy to be anyone else but Takamiya would be stretching it. Also it fits the hawk character in Takamiya's name.

However, I wouldn't put it past Himekawa to act as an information broker/middleman for both Fuji and Takamiya. Fuji may be the strongest of the Killer Elements, but that doesn't mean he can't be challenged by the other Elements.

FanOfAniManga
June 12, 2013, 11:35 PM
I've been thinking about the latest developments on this manga, and it's gotten me concerned about the wellbeing of this manga. The thing is, I just realized that there's quite a strong analogy between Oga's status at Ishiyama High and the series' status in the magazine.

When the manga first came out, it was going strong, like Oga was going strong ruling Ishiyama High. Everything went well together because there just wasn't much to go on in the first place. It was crude and funny.

But afterwards, things hadn't been going so perfectly for Oga and the series anymore because the story eventually had to develop itself. Oga wanders off on some random adventures to the Demon World, Saint Ishiyama Academy, Akumano Academy and Okinawa. For the most part, there haven't been many relevant developments taken or round characters met. Things mostly just go back to normal after all these storylines. We don't see anyone again from the Demon World arc, the Saint Ishiyama Academy characters and Behemoth's army are mostly forgotten once they're dealt with, and the South Chinpira High School students never appear again after leaving Okinawa, except for that brief Christmas stint. With the series as a whole, you had the lacklustre anime which got produced much too sooner than it should have been, causing all this random, irrelevant filler to surface over the course of its lifetime, and especially towards the end, thus becoming quite unable to promote the series very well. I guess what I'm trying to say is that through all that time, things haven't really developed for Oga and the series, or at least not as much as we thought it could. Sure, you had some new powerups and a little more teamwork, but is this really all we're getting after over 150 chapters?

That leads us to the present day, and what we see is Oga, the original leader of Ishiyama High, actually getting usurped and his rear end handed to him for once by all these newcomers. Who was once arguably the strongest character in the series has become nothing more than a plaything. As you may have noticed, we've been getting a lot of newcomers in the magazine lately, such as AC, Saiki, and Soma, gradually taking out the top spots from the more longer-running titles, like Naruto and Bleach. It's reached a point where even series fresh out of the late 00s have become unsafe. It's not unlikely there'll be more new series coming in that will replace the longer-running series we tend to be more familiar with. At the same time, it's something to expect if older series don't keep up with the times, a problem Kochikame had managed to bypass completely.

Now, being enthusiasticlly on the lookout for the next big developments in WSJ, I'll always be anticipating newcomers to the magazine from one cancellation round to the next, but in particular, it'll still be sad to see Beelzebub fall because it still has so much going for it through all these years. Maybe all those storylines and characters will actually come together over the next few years, or maybe Tamura will just leave them in the dust like he always had everytime he started a new arc. I don't know.