View Full Version : Reborn 367 Discussion / 368 Predictions
BianchiChrome
December 15, 2011, 11:47 PM
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Yojiki
December 26, 2011, 05:35 PM
Chapter's out: http://mangastream.com/read/katekyo_hitman_reborn/87565368/1
VongolaSky
December 26, 2011, 05:36 PM
ooooooh....lemitsu cut off the alliance with tsuna.......anyway who thinks it so out of character for tsuna to think "dammit mukuro I'm stronger than you!!" Hibari vs Varia should be interesting, I wonder if collonello destroyed byakurans or mukuros boss watches
Tenshi123
December 26, 2011, 05:38 PM
I knew as soon as Hibari went into the hotel to find Dino that he was going to find the Varia instead. XD No point in putting them in the same hotel otherwise!! Maybe Dino will come along and they'll temporarily team up against the Varia? *w*/
VongolaSky, I agree with you: that was a rather OOC thought from Tsuna. I definitely raised my eyebrows when I read that.
meepers4982
December 26, 2011, 06:11 PM
wow what a horrible father but i don't think that team reborn will be attack i feel like it will be uni's team and mukuros...especially since tsuna and company are the main characters. Colonello is awesome.
Fomano
December 26, 2011, 06:19 PM
Epic Chapter is Epic.
Even though Dino is good guy, I'm doubting that he set up a trap for Hibari and is going to show up to take de leftovers.
Xanxus is nowhere to be seen, neither is Shimon, maybe they're going to fight, but for Xanxus single handedly take Shimon down would be kind of absurd.
To teams are going to lose this round, my guesses are Yuni's and Mammon's or Yuni's and Skull's teams:
- If Byakuran's watch wasn't destroyed by Colonello it is probably going to be destroyed later and I guess that Tsuna's dad will be the responsible, with this, Tsuna will build the rage and the courage enough to beat his dad.
- On the other side I can clearly see a four way battle beginning. First is Hibari, Second is Varia, Third is Shimon showing up to avenge Enma's beating and Fourth is Dino. We have seen almost everything that Shimon has to show except for Kaoru's flame and maybe something on the Desert Flame. Hibari is not going to lose here, he never loses against secondary characters, or in this case, teams. Dino has yet to show a lot and so does Xanxus with the new Varia Rings. With everyone fighting, I guess that in the end we will have something like Hibari vs Xanxus vs Dino vs Enma, in this fight Dino will lose and Xanxus/Enma too.
Predictions done.
GotYou
December 26, 2011, 06:25 PM
ooooooh....lemitsu cut off the alliance with tsuna.......anyway who thinks it so out of character for tsuna to think "dammit mukuro I'm stronger than you!!" Hibari vs Varia should be interesting, I wonder if collonello destroyed byakurans or mukuros boss watches
That was more out of character than I ever could imagine and made me laugh. Tsuna's fans I'm sorry but from an outsider's viewpoint it looks like Mukuro is bullying little kid (Tsuna) though actually Mukuro is almost 1 year younger than Tsuna. I think Tsuna should have acted a bit other way. And I don't think mukuros and byakurans watches are broken. Wonder what hibari got up his sleeve agains varia because it's obvious he stands no chance against them.
Sademi
December 26, 2011, 07:36 PM
That was more out of character than I ever could imagine and made me laugh. Tsuna's fans I'm sorry but from an outsider's viewpoint it looks like Mukuro is bullying little kid (Tsuna) though actually Mukuro is almost 1 year younger than Tsuna. I think Tsuna should have acted a bit other way. And I don't think mukuros and byakurans watches are broken. Wonder what hibari got up his sleeve agains varia because it's obvious he stands no chance against them.
What do you mean "1 year younger than Tsuna"? Don't you mean older? :S Tsuna is 14 and Mukuro is 15.
everydaygamer
December 26, 2011, 08:46 PM
well considering tsuna kicked murkuro's ass before i have no doubt that tsuna is stronger than him.
Lectro Volpi
December 26, 2011, 09:03 PM
Very out of character that "Mukuro... I am better than you!" as Tsuna never brags about his power (even if its true).
If Reborn breaks the curse then Colonello will be no match... in fact, no arcobaleno will be a match at all.
Varia vs Hibari. Squalo can match Hibari for a moment and Xanxus should be strong enough to fight equally or even defeat him.
BaddAzzKenpachi74
December 26, 2011, 09:45 PM
I can totally see Hibari taking down Varia by himself (minus Xanxus of course).
It will be a tuff battle but Hibari can pull it off IMO.
The true battle will not start until Xanxus arrives to find his allies beaten by Hibari.
THAT is when the true clash of the Titans begins.
keng4896
December 27, 2011, 12:26 AM
Im sure that Mukuro thught of a plan to counter colonello's attack, now that he had such a crazy machine. Wonder if tsuna's gonna survive mukuro and colonello's attack....
So Varia is in the hotel after all...they are supposed to interupt tsuna's battle and steal Mukuro's device, good thing their opponent is Hibari. Time for Xanxus to show up!!
crimsonlink310
December 27, 2011, 01:37 AM
I predict that Uni and Verde's team will be taken out next chapter. Shimon has 7 people plus Skull, them losing everyone is extremely low.
Mammon's team is pretty powerful but they will lost some people to Hibari in the process. Fon might help out Hibari if it gets dangerous enough.
Uni only has Gamma and Byakuran left so I expect them to get taken out if their watches aren't already gone.
Verde has Mukuro and Flan but its unconfirmed whether or not their watches are intact though it looks like Flan got a headshot lol.
Of course Reborn's and Colonello will have their team mostly intact unless Skull's team surprises them and manages to take out a few members of either team.
just_a_girl
December 27, 2011, 02:33 AM
I predict that Uni and Verde's team will be taken out next chapter. Shimon has 7 people plus Skull, them losing everyone is extremely low.
Mammon's team is pretty powerful but they will lost some people to Hibari in the process. Fon might help out Hibari if it gets dangerous enough.
Uni only has Gamma and Byakuran left so I expect them to get taken out if their watches aren't already gone.
Verde has Mukuro and Flan but its unconfirmed whether or not their watches are intact though it looks like Flan got a headshot lol.
Of course Reborn's and Colonello will have their team mostly intact unless Skull's team surprises them and manages to take out a few members of either team.
Yup, I mostly agree. I'll be a bit sad to see Byakuran and Mukuro go, but they look the most likely candidates to lose right now.
Hibari may be Tsuna's strongest guardian, but I can't see him taking down almost the entire Varia. I'm sure he'll get one or two of them in the process though (Levi or Lussuria most likely, or maybe both of them, but I'm also quite sure Squalo, for example, will be fine). I think Hibari's shining moment would be a fght with Dino. And he seems so fixated on it anyway :D :D
Speaking of Dino, maybe he's fighting Shimon, all by himself ("sobs into a hanky")? I'd like to see Dino vs Adelheid, I admit the truth.
P.S. yes, yes, I know there're many rabid Hibari fans who think he's the Supreme Power, but it's obvious that Amano tried to balance things up, so he'll be evenly matched by many characters, otherwise the manga will become too boring. Besides, in the past, Hibari was always very strong, but he was never really overpowered, like Tsuna or, ridiculously enough, Enma. I certainly hope he improved though. I like Hibari fights, they're so intense lol. And Amano usually draws them extremely well :D
Trident Shamal
December 27, 2011, 03:11 AM
Colonnello's Shot was crazily powerful but as expected the bosses can at least defend their watches,i dont know about second shot but he has 3 minutes of tranformation totally.As for Hibari i think he is engaged with a tough battle but i think he can fight varia equally unless Xanxus intervene.
tiramisu
December 27, 2011, 05:14 AM
Hibari vs Varia
probably Levi will lose(because he has Shimon-like plot relevance....and zero popularity) and Lussuria too(he's close range fighter -he will expose the watch).
Doubt Squalo,Belphegor and Xanxus will lose(Xanxus is Xanxus, he is not a fodder for Hibari- same thing for Squalo- and Belphegor is smart enough to know when it's time to retreat instead of losing)
The only team that it seems left out is Skulls team,it would be amusing if they got eliminated off pannel(and it would be also logical,everytime they appear Reborn jump rankings drop drastically,Amano is wise if she drops them off pannel)
GotYou
December 27, 2011, 07:52 AM
What do you mean "1 year younger than Tsuna"? Don't you mean older? :S Tsuna is 14 and Mukuro is 15.
Sorry for the late response but I mean almost a year younger because Tsuna is 14 by the time of his appearance but in chapter 22 in volume 3 he's got a birthday party so that means he turns 15 but Mukuro appears in august and his BD is on 9 june and by the time of his appearance he is 15 so that makes 9 months difference or have I got smth wrong?
And as for the chapter I really suspect something strange as hell about Hibari's behavior I mean at first he has been chasing Mukuro as if he was obsessed and now he made a deal with Fon and abruptly diverted his attention to Dino..wtf?
keng4896
December 27, 2011, 08:22 AM
Sorry for the late response but I mean almost a year younger because Tsuna is 14 by the time of his appearance but in chapter 22 in volume 3 he's got a birthday party so that means he turns 15 but Mukuro appears in august and his BD is on 9 june and by the time of his appearance he is 15 so that makes 9 months difference or have I got smth wrong?
9 months age diff doesn't mean that tsuna should be completely stronger that mukuro with that device. Tsuna actually crushed tons of people older than him.
And as for the chapter I really suspect something strange as hell about Hibari's behavior I mean at first he has been chasing Mukuro as if he was obsessed and now he made a deal with Fon and abruptly diverted his attention to Dino..wtf?
Maybe...he won during some fight with Mukuro? And Dino suddenly appeared in that fight and crushed Hibari? (not really possible though)
GotYou
December 27, 2011, 08:35 AM
9 months age diff doesn't mean that tsuna should be completely stronger that mukuro with that device. Tsuna actually crushed tons of people older than him.
Maybe...he won during some fight with Mukuro? And Dino suddenly appeared in that fight and crushed Hibari? (not really possible though)
Actually I did think about that but wait when Hibari went after Mukuro Mukuro was in France so they couldn't meet...but yeah Dino beat him once and I always wondered why wasn't Hibari interested in him and yeah finally he remembered lol XD And I didn't mean taht 9 months age difference should define the strength I'm just rather confused about their age because as I understand Mukuro is younger but he looks a lot older..well it can't be helped =) And I'm a bit confused about Tsuna's lack of self-confidence why does he get so worked up over that thing with Mukuro? He knows he beat Mukuro once but still gets angry like he never did it.
Miyanoai
December 27, 2011, 10:29 AM
I predict that Uni and Verde's team will be taken out next chapter. Shimon has 7 people plus Skull, them losing everyone is extremely low.
except they don't have to lose everybody, just their boss.
Wow, they this alliance like, what, two chapters ago? And Iemitsu already broke it. I wonder if maybe he's trying to teach Rsuna something in the process.
Tsuna's line really did seen out of character, but he must be really pissed. There's a few scenarios I'm thinking of that nobody's mentioned.
1) Tsuna gets angry enough to actually fire an x/xx-burner in team Colonnello's direction. Though I doubt he would risk that, but we all know it's pretty perfect revenge). XD
2) Reborn unleashes his curse and uses some cool shot to counteract Colonnello's shot.
3) Colonnello's time runs out before he can make a second shot (i'd personnally lmao if that happened).
As for the 'unconfirmed' watches, it's pretty obvious they survived. Poor Fran will probably have more brain damage (or MAYBE he'll get his memories back *wink wink*).
I would actually love for Hibari to loose but it doesn't seem like the author would want that to happen. It's pretty obvious from the start that a one-man team is futile so he must have something up his sleeve. I wonder what that promise from Fon was (if it's not the obvious). As soon as they were in the hotel, I though "yes, fight with the Varia!" XD now we're just missing the Shimon and Basil (he didn't get out yet, did he?)
Sorry for the late response but I mean almost a year younger because Tsuna is 14 by the time of his appearance but in chapter 22 in volume 3 he's got a birthday party so that means he turns 15 but Mukuro appears in august and his BD is on 9 june and by the time of his appearance he is 15 so that makes 9 months difference or have I got smth wrong?
I can't remember when Tsuna's age was first mentioned so at this point I kind of assumed he wad 13 in the very beginning and turned 14 in the birthday chapter, and he's been 14 ever since. It makes more sense with his grades cause if he were 15, he'd be a third year. And June can be 9 months after or 4 months before when you look at so he could 4 months older.
just_a_girl
December 27, 2011, 10:54 AM
Oh yes, Fon's promise to Hibari :D I'd like to hope it would be something really unexpected, but unfortunately, it's very likely just a promise to fight Hibari once the curse is lifted and Fon regains his real size and abilities.
Colonello's being too cool to be true, but he also seems to brag a lot while his time is running out. This way, he will mess up the second shot.:D
Sademi
December 27, 2011, 02:48 PM
Sorry for the late response but I mean almost a year younger because Tsuna is 14 by the time of his appearance but in chapter 22 in volume 3 he's got a birthday party so that means he turns 15 but Mukuro appears in august and his BD is on 9 june and by the time of his appearance he is 15 so that makes 9 months difference or have I got smth wrong?
And as for the chapter I really suspect something strange as hell about Hibari's behavior I mean at first he has been chasing Mukuro as if he was obsessed and now he made a deal with Fon and abruptly diverted his attention to Dino..wtf?
No, Tsuna was 13 at the beginning of the series but turned 14 in the birthday chapter. It wouldn't make sense with him being 15 and still in second grade, unless he had to repeat one year. Since Gokudera, Yamamoto and co are the same age as him, it would have to be the same way for them (very unlikely).
Mukuro is 15, which would make him a third year, and one year younger than Hibari, who should have or have already graduated, but decided to stay for some reason.
So, it's like this:
16 years: Hibari
15 years: Mukuro and his gang (excluding Chrome) and Ryohei
14 years: Tsuna, Gokudera, Yamamoto, Kyoko, Haru
13 years: Chrome
matzik1212
December 27, 2011, 03:00 PM
Nice chapter , i liked seeing Colonello in action (he's really hot in his released form btw :love)..... his rifle attack was really spectacular.
On the other hand Tsuna's dad is starting to piss me off :-_- , i mean i know he has to do what he has to do but i always find very annoying the characters who put a fake smile on their faces and he kinda always does that
Well but i have to admit that this experiences Tsuna is going through right now is something he needs since he has to put away that scaredy-cat attitude and understand the seriosity of this representative battle.
God i'm dying to see Tsuna pissed off really bad in this arc :D He needs to make each of his guardians understand that his far superior from them and that he's the boss IMO but well i guess it's something that's hard to accomplish with such an attitude lol
Sademi
December 27, 2011, 07:10 PM
Nice chapter , i liked seeing Colonello in action (he's really hot in his released form btw :love)..... his rifle attack was really spectacular.
On the other hand Tsuna's dad is starting to piss me off :-_- , i mean i know he has to do what he has to do but i always find very annoying the characters who put a fake smile on their faces and he kinda always does that
Well but i have to admit that this experiences Tsuna is going through right now is something he needs since he has to put away that scaredy-cat attitude and understand the seriosity of this representative battle.
God i'm dying to see Tsuna pissed off really bad in this arc :D He needs to make each of his guardians understand that his far superior from them and that he's the boss IMO but well i guess it's something that's hard to accomplish with such an attitude lol
He's pissed off at Mukuro enough to think something so OOC as "Mukuro, you bastard, I'm way stronger than you". But I agree, I would like to see Tsuna toughen up a little. But not too much, since I still like his comical side ;D
ZERO PHOENIX
December 28, 2011, 01:56 PM
Nice chapter , i liked seeing Colonello in action... his rifle attack was really spectacular.
I too was impressed with Colonello. It was kind of funny when I was reading it because the moment I saw that rifle I said to myself, "Oh shit. Two teams are going to be eliminated." :s
On the other hand Tsuna's dad is starting to piss me off :-_- , i mean i know he has to do what he has to do but i always find very annoying the characters who put a fake smile on their faces and he kinda always does that
You have to look at things from his standpoint though. He's closer to a true mafioso than Tsuna is and as such, he knows how to place the family before his own needs, unlike Tsuna. Mukuro has informed Tsuna at least a dozen times that he would eventually take over Tsuna's body and crush the Vongola. Add on the fact that Tsuna, having teamed up with Byakuran is like inviting a cobra into your bed and Iemitsu (hope I got his dad's name right) isn't having any of that. As far as he's concerned both Byakuran and Mukuro are gambits that are equally dangerous to the Vongola. If he can eliminate them from the match and even kill them then he's going to do what he has to do while he has an opening. He's not some cliche shounen dad (at least for the moment) he's mafia. I personally like Mukuro and Byakuran but if I was in Iemitsu's case I'd do the same thing. It's not about being everyone's best friend, it's about looking at any given situation, analyzing the problems, and taking steps to solve those problems. Byakuran (potentially) and Mukuro are both threats to the Vongola and with that in mind, well I'm sorry but they have to die. That's how Iemitsu is looking at it.
Well but i have to admit that this experiences Tsuna is going through right now is something he needs since he has to put away that scaredy-cat attitude and understand the seriosity of this representative battle.
I think you mean seriousness? Seriosity is not a word. Apart from that I agree with you. Tsuna has been in enough life and death battles to know that he needs to get his head in the game.
God i'm dying to see Tsuna pissed off really bad in this arc :D
Me too. I mean my word grow a pair.
He needs to make each of his guardians understand that his far superior from them and that he's the boss IMO but well i guess it's something that's hard to accomplish with such an attitude lol
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Both Mukuro and Hibari are far superior to Tsuna in terms of combat experience, cunning, and raw power. The only reason Tsuna has taken down foes that they couldn't such as XanXus and Byakuran is simple plotkai. In a full on balls out battle between Tsuna, XanXus (love this guy), Byakuran, Hibari, and Mukuro, I guarantee Tsuna would be the first one eliminated if he didn't have his plot armor protecting him. Yes I'm aware that neither Byakuran nor XanXus are Tsuna's guardians however I'm making note of them because Tsuna, while very very powerful and far more skilled than a certain ADHD ninja in an orange jumpsuit, is really no match for the heavy-hitters in this game.
Miyanoai
December 28, 2011, 02:27 PM
God i'm dying to see Tsuna pissed off really bad in this arc :D He needs to make each of his guardians understand that his far superior from them and that he's the boss IMO but well i guess it's something that's hard to accomplish with such an attitude lol
If that was the case, first he'd have to figure that out himself. But I have to agree with Zero Pheonix. He's not superior than them in actual experience and skill. The only thing that really makes him superior aside from being the main character is his blood. If he wanted them to believe he's the boss (which of couse he doesn't), he's got to act like it. It's the only way he can recieve a shread amount of respect from his distant guardians and enemies. Power alone won't do it.
But yeah, him getting pissed off seems to be the first step, so I'm looking forward to it as well.
And as for Iemitsu, well, we need some more characters in this series that piss the audience off (and are actually tactical in a mafia way).
gdmcrjunkie
December 28, 2011, 04:50 PM
About Tsuna's out of character line:
raw panel (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f266/gdmcrjunkie/03.jpg)
Mukuro no yatsu... Mae yori zutto tsuyoi!! => That Mukuro... He's much stronger than before!!
So, no worries~ Tsuna might be having issues with Iemitsu but he hasn't changed that much all of a sudden :)
Speaking of which. I don't think Iemitsu was being unreasonable this chapter but he's pissing me off all the same for some reason. I want the issue with him resolved soon... But I bet it'll take much longer. Oh well, I'll be satisfied if we see a different Tsuna as a result~ Maybe even some character development by the end of the arc? Wouldn't that be nice? :D
KBraga
December 28, 2011, 08:03 PM
Ooooh some traslation mistake out there, it caught the most of us hehe. :-_-
Colonnello shoot amazing :super, wondering about Reborn, and sure another arcobaleno will show himself up in this battle period, it will be either Mammon or Fon or maybe in a impressive scenario the both.
Fon's Promise: what else could the martial artist master arcobaleno Fon the best hand-figther in the arcobaleno possible promise to Hibari Kioya a battle maniac? it sure would be stunning if it was not a battle, but I couldn't think of any other reason, not even:
Fon - Hibari I'm your father! - :p
Hibari - nooooooooooooo! - :o
Second Battle Day Result Prediction:
Team Reborn: Tsuna, Gokudera and Yamamoto survive, Dino will somehow lose while getting involved in Varia/Hibari figth.
Team Uni: Eliminated (althought Uni's realease is still to be showed up, if that's the case they wont get elimianted, and instead it will be colonnello's)
Team Colonnello: Unscatched unless the situation described up there would happen, I mean either them or Uni's.
Team Verde: Mukuro and Fran (I think it's amusing the Genkisghi joining idea, but I don't think it would happen.)
Team Mammon: XanXus, Saqualo and Belphegor survive Lussuria and Leviathan get eliminated. XanXus will burst in the battle in rage for his sleep being disturbed.
Team Fon: Hibari will get alive and so his watch. (he has alredy to figth Mukuro, don't believe amano-sensei will not give us that long awaited scenario.)
Team Skull: or they are eihter figthing Basil wich is not possible 1 vs 7, unless CEDEF got some other figthers (would love if it was Shamal and Lancia) or they heading to the hotel to give Varia it's payback and so Enma watch would end up broken, and their team get eliminated.
You have to look at things from his standpoint though. He's closer to a true mafioso than Tsuna is and as such, he knows how to place the family before his own needs, unlike Tsuna. Mukuro has informed Tsuna at least a dozen times that he would eventually take over Tsuna's body and crush the Vongola. Add on the fact that Tsuna, having teamed up with Byakuran is like inviting a cobra into your bed and Iemitsu (hope I got his dad's name right) isn't having any of that. As far as he's concerned both Byakuran and Mukuro are gambits that are equally dangerous to the Vongola. If he can eliminate them from the match and even kill them then he's going to do what he has to do while he has an opening. He's not some cliche shounen dad (at least for the moment) he's mafia. I personally like Mukuro and Byakuran but if I was in Iemitsu's case I'd do the same thing. It's not about being everyone's best friend, it's about looking at any given situation, analyzing the problems, and taking steps to solve those problems. Byakuran (potentially) and Mukuro are both threats to the Vongola and with that in mind, well I'm sorry but they have to die. That's how Iemitsu is looking at it.
I actually like Iemitsu, his personality is awesome exactly what I expect from a father mafioso and I agrre with almost everything you said. As for Mukuro, we need to remember that Iemitsu was the one who chose him for the guardian of the mist, maybe he was expecting to show him through Tsuna that not all mafia are bad, don't think he changed his mind about it. But I agree in the fact that he may consider Byakuran a snake in the house.
Longing for the next chapter! ;)
GotYou
December 29, 2011, 05:27 AM
Well, actually Tsuna isn't often mistaken in people, he might be in cases like with Mukuro, but well Mukuro is just a prof in disguising Chrome takes his actions and words at face value as well, but as for Tsuna he's got his super intuition and there were many times he could see through a person what others couldn't do. So I don't think Iemitsu is greater in that aspect, but at the same time something about a sudden change of Byakurans intentions confuses me, maybe we'll discover it later.
tiramisu
December 29, 2011, 05:45 AM
Ooooh some traslation mistake out there, it caught the most of us hehe. :-_-
Colonnello shoot amazing :super, wondering about Reborn, and sure another arcobaleno will show himself up in this battle period, it will be either Mammon or Fon or maybe in a impressive scenario the both.
Fon's Promise: what else could the martial artist master arcobaleno Fon the best hand-figther in the arcobaleno possible promise to Hibari Kioya a battle maniac? it sure would be stunning if it was not a battle, but I couldn't think of any other reason, not even:
Fon - Hibari I'm your father! - :p
Hibari - nooooooooooooo! - :o
Second Battle Day Result Prediction:
Team Reborn: Tsuna, Gokudera and Yamamoto survive, Dino will somehow lose while getting involved in Varia/Hibari figth.
Team Uni: Eliminated (althought Uni's realease is still to be showed up, if that's the case they wont get elimianted, and instead it will be colonnello's)
Team Colonnello: Unscatched unless the situation described up there would happen, I mean either them or Uni's.
Team Verde: Mukuro and Fran (I think it's amusing the Genkisghi joining idea, but I don't think it would happen.)
Team Mammon: XanXus, Saqualo and Belphegor survive Lussuria and Leviathan get eliminated. XanXus will burst in the battle in rage for his sleep being disturbed.
Team Fon: Hibari will get alive and so his watch. (he has alredy to figth Mukuro, don't believe amano-sensei will not give us that long awaited scenario.)
Team Skull: or they are eihter figthing Basil wich is not possible 1 vs 7, unless CEDEF got some other figthers (would love if it was Shamal and Lancia) or they heading to the hotel to give Varia it's payback and so Enma watch would end up broken, and their team get eliminated.
I actually like Iemitsu, his personality is awesome exactly what I expect from a father mafioso and I agrre with almost everything you said. As for Mukuro, we need to remember that Iemitsu was the one who chose him for the guardian of the mist, maybe he was expecting to show him through Tsuna that not all mafia are bad, don't think he changed his mind about it. But I agree in the fact that he may consider Byakuran a snake in the house.
Longing for the next chapter! ;)
I agree with this.
Even though i think that probably is Colonnello team(together with Uni team) that will be eliminated.
The reason is that next chapter we will have a second Iemitsu vs Tsuna and since i doubt Iemitsu will be eliminated by someone else and that we will have a third Iemitsu vs Tsuna(it would be too repetitive)....this is the time Iemitsu team will get eliminated.
Team Skull are probably hiding so they will survive this time(Varia is busy with Hibari).
For me the surviving teams will be Reborn,Mammon,Verde,Fon and Skull.
Sademi
December 29, 2011, 07:59 AM
About Tsuna's out of character line:
raw panel (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f266/gdmcrjunkie/03.jpg)
Mukuro no yatsu... Mae yori zutto tsuyoi!! => That Mukuro... He's much stronger than before!!
So, no worries~ Tsuna might be having issues with Iemitsu but he hasn't changed that much all of a sudden :)
That explains it. I thought that it was strange that Tsuna would say such a thing. Haha ^^
matzik1212
December 30, 2011, 06:05 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Both Mukuro and Hibari are far superior to Tsuna in terms of combat experience, cunning, and raw power. The only reason Tsuna has taken down foes that they couldn't such as XanXus and Byakuran is simple plotkai. In a full on balls out battle between Tsuna, XanXus (love this guy), Byakuran, Hibari, and Mukuro, I guarantee Tsuna would be the first one eliminated if he didn't have his plot armor protecting him. Yes I'm aware that neither Byakuran nor XanXus are Tsuna's guardians however I'm making note of them because Tsuna, while very very powerful and far more skilled than a certain ADHD ninja in an orange jumpsuit, is really no match for the heavy-hitters in this game.
Well i also have to disagree with you to some point . I too know that in terms of combat experience , cunning Mukuro is superior but even with all this Tsuna could absolutely be superior to him if he could change his attitude IMO :) ....Let's remember he wasn't chosen as the next boss if that weren't the case and i'm not talking here about only his raw power but also his ability to win a battle by growing up as he's fighting a stronger opponent , i think that's his most valuable ability ...
The only thing that doesn't permit him to have the respect of all his guardians is his character that doesn't want to hurt even a fly . If he let's say by chance he hits his head (a silly supposition :)) and doesn't remember who he is and he becomes evil i'm sure with his current power and upgrades could wipe the floor with Mukuro or even Byakuran :^_^
ZERO PHOENIX
December 30, 2011, 10:18 AM
No offense but this is what makes discussions more of a battle between bulls than a discourse between fans of KHR. Your logic doesn't coincide with your argument.
Well i also have to disagree with you to some point . I too know that in terms of combat experience , cunning Mukuro is superior but even with all this Tsuna could absolutely be superior to him if he could change his attitude IMO :)
This doesn't make any sense. I'm not knocking you, merely pointing out the logical fallacies in your argument. If you allow me the concession that Mukuro is more cunning than Tsuna and that Mukuro also has more combat experience, you automatically agree to the point that in terms of combat Mukuro is superior to Tsuna. With that in mind, you cannot, in sound logic claim that this gulf in ability can be closed if Tsuna changed his attitude. Again I'm not knocking you. I know I can be something of a troll but I'm actually making a very honest case here. Your argument does not coincide with the reality of this manga (wow, there's an oxymoron). Changing ones attitude does, in no way, make up for a difference in fighting ability, technique, experience, the list goes on. I'm going to pose you a question matzik and I want you to really try and see it from my perspective. Look at team Verde. Do you really think that Tsuna can match Mukuro's intelligence just by changing his attitude? That wouldn't make any sense. Mukuro has lived longer, he's been part of the world and the underworld far longer than Tsuna and he's had more than his share of combat. Again I'm not trolling or trying to get in your grill but tell me honestly, on what logical grounds do you allege that merely by changing ones attitude, a character can suddenly break down the barriers of logic with the world they exist? Well, that happens all the time in Fairy Tail true, but very, very rarely in KHR. Tsuna's attitude has absolutely nothing to do with experience and intelligence.
....Let's remember he wasn't chosen as the next boss if that weren't the case and i'm not talking here about only his raw power but also his ability to win a battle by growing up as he's fighting a stronger opponent , i think that's his most valuable ability ...
I understand your argument and I like it. :super Only problem I have with it is that the evidence to the contrary is staggering. Tsuna was selected as boss because he is the Vongola closest to Primo. I'm not saying his other qualities weren't important, but when he was selected to take over as boss none of those factors you listed were as important as the fact that he is almost the very reincarnation of Primo. The traits Tsuna has assisted him in his ascension unto BOSS true, but not because they are "his" traits but because they are Primo's traits. XanXus was far more qualified to lead than Tsuna. The only reason he was denied was because his methods were too violent. This is more or less alluded to if not even stated outright.
The only thing that doesn't permit him to have the respect of all his guardians is his character that doesn't want to hurt even a fly . If he let's say by chance he hits his head (a silly supposition :)) and doesn't remember who he is and he becomes evil i'm sure with his current power and upgrades could wipe the floor with Mukuro or even Byakuran :^_^
I respect your arguments but I think in trying to hype Tsuna you are glossing over the fact that the actual manga really contradicts most of your arguments. Tsuna has the respect of all his guardians, even Mukuro and that's because Tsuna is Tsuna. It's because Tsuna is gentle that his fam respects and loves him and it is because he is loving that other families are drawn to him. I'm not sure how you interpreted Mukuro's feelings but he doesn't hate Tsuna at all. To Mukuro, Tsuna is a spare body, a weapon he can use to take down the Vongola. He has never shown any hatred toward Tsuna at any point. Mukuro is very business-like and although he hates the mafia, Mukuro himself operates in a very, very mafia-like fashion. He doesn't hate Tsuna, he also respects Tsuna very much. But it's business. Mukuro wants to destroy the Vongola and it never hurts to have a body he can use and throw away after he's done. I'm not sure if you read the last chapter but Tsuna couldn't even lay a finger on Mukuro who was just playing with him the entire time. Not only that but I'm sure that XanXus and Byakuran are still stronger than Tsuna, otherwise Tsuna wouldn't be so afraid of them. You're confusing Tsuna's plot-armor with Tsuna's actual level of skill. I'm not hating on you or Tsuna mind you. Kid is a gotdamn BEAST!!! But let's keep it real. Tsuna is an adorable badass but in a full-blown fight against the powerhouses in this manga he wouldn't last long. I'm not hating on you, Tsuna, or KHR, but I'm just not letting my fandom get in the way of my logic.
GotYou
January 01, 2012, 04:05 PM
Gotta completely agree with ZERO PHOENIX. I always thought like that but I was just too lazy to argue and put forward my arguments but well I won't repeat the same. The one thing I would like to add that in my opinion Mukuro does respect Tsuna for the fact that he beat him but he does hate him too because he hates all the mafia and Tsuna is the boss.
elitefox
January 02, 2012, 09:31 PM
No offense but this is what makes discussions more of a battle between bulls than a discourse between fans of KHR. Your logic doesn't coincide with your argument.
This doesn't make any sense. I'm not knocking you, merely pointing out the logical fallacies in your argument. If you allow me the concession that Mukuro is more cunning than Tsuna and that Mukuro also has more combat experience, you automatically agree to the point that in terms of combat Mukuro is superior to Tsuna. With that in mind, you cannot, in sound logic claim that this gulf in ability can be closed if Tsuna changed his attitude. Again I'm not knocking you. I know I can be something of a troll but I'm actually making a very honest case here. Your argument does not coincide with the reality of this manga (wow, there's an oxymoron). Changing ones attitude does, in no way, make up for a difference in fighting ability, technique, experience, the list goes on. I'm going to pose you a question matzik and I want you to really try and see it from my perspective. Look at team Verde. Do you really think that Tsuna can match Mukuro's intelligence just by changing his attitude? That wouldn't make any sense. Mukuro has lived longer, he's been part of the world and the underworld far longer than Tsuna and he's had more than his share of combat. Again I'm not trolling or trying to get in your grill but tell me honestly, on what logical grounds do you allege that merely by changing ones attitude, a character can suddenly break down the barriers of logic with the world they exist? Well, that happens all the time in Fairy Tail true, but very, very rarely in KHR. Tsuna's attitude has absolutely nothing to do with experience and intelligence.
I understand your argument and I like it. :super Only problem I have with it is that the evidence to the contrary is staggering. Tsuna was selected as boss because he is the Vongola closest to Primo. I'm not saying his other qualities weren't important, but when he was selected to take over as boss none of those factors you listed were as important as the fact that he is almost the very reincarnation of Primo. The traits Tsuna has assisted him in his ascension unto BOSS true, but not because they are "his" traits but because they are Primo's traits. XanXus was far more qualified to lead than Tsuna. The only reason he was denied was because his methods were too violent. This is more or less alluded to if not even stated outright.
I respect your arguments but I think in trying to hype Tsuna you are glossing over the fact that the actual manga really contradicts most of your arguments. Tsuna has the respect of all his guardians, even Mukuro and that's because Tsuna is Tsuna. It's because Tsuna is gentle that his fam respects and loves him and it is because he is loving that other families are drawn to him. I'm not sure how you interpreted Mukuro's feelings but he doesn't hate Tsuna at all. To Mukuro, Tsuna is a spare body, a weapon he can use to take down the Vongola. He has never shown any hatred toward Tsuna at any point. Mukuro is very business-like and although he hates the mafia, Mukuro himself operates in a very, very mafia-like fashion. He doesn't hate Tsuna, he also respects Tsuna very much. But it's business. Mukuro wants to destroy the Vongola and it never hurts to have a body he can use and throw away after he's done. I'm not sure if you read the last chapter but Tsuna couldn't even lay a finger on Mukuro who was just playing with him the entire time. Not only that but I'm sure that XanXus and Byakuran are still stronger than Tsuna, otherwise Tsuna wouldn't be so afraid of them. You're confusing Tsuna's plot-armor with Tsuna's actual level of skill. I'm not hating on you or Tsuna mind you. Kid is a gotdamn BEAST!!! But let's keep it real. Tsuna is an adorable badass but in a full-blown fight against the powerhouses in this manga he wouldn't last long. I'm not hating on you, Tsuna, or KHR, but I'm just not letting my fandom get in the way of my logic.
Actually without the plot, Tsuna and his guardians are supposed to invincible now with their upgrades last arc... anyways, power level have been destroyed this arc so its like a reset of power levels and also tsuna's element should make all flames stoned is also a great confusion that should only make sky vs any element advantage to tsuna except if the flame of the enemy is greater than him which is impossible at this point.
Kazu-Sama
January 02, 2012, 10:20 PM
I have to say, I am a firm believer that Hibari and Mukuro could both beat Tsuna in a one-on-one fight, without Reborn and co anywhere near. The abilities shown by Mukuro - even through chrome - far surpassed the abilities he showed in his fight with Tsuna. To me, that's why Mukuro - now freed - isn't representing Tsuna and Hibari is with Fon. Mukuro and Hibari, fighting at full strength together, could potentially beat pretty much anyone.
just_a_girl
January 03, 2012, 03:32 AM
On the whole, I agree with ZERO PHOENIX. That kind of logic sounds plausible to me.
Also I have to add that nowhere in the manga did Amano as a narrator state that Tsuna (or anyone else, for that matter) was completely invincible and beyond reach of any attack. The idea was expressed by other characters, but that doesn't always make it true. Gokudera and Yamamoto and once or twice even Reborn, for example, said that Tsuna would win a fight more times than I can count, and quite often Tsuna lost after that. The same goes for other characters. In other words, if someone in the manga goes "Oh yeah, now he'll definitely kick their asses!" I understand it as "The boy's all hyped up and motivated and he has the equipment! If he doesn't mess up, he'll probably win!" And since there's also plot-armor, he often does. :D
(and I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's normal for a shounen manga and is supposed to happen)
Also, the previous arc indeed made Tsuna look overpowered. If Amano had left it that way, things would've become predictable and as a result boring, and no one likes a boring fight lol. To avoid that she... I wouldn't say reset, but readjusted and balanced the power-levels, yes. So now I have to agree with this
I have to say, I am a firm believer that Hibari and Mukuro could both beat Tsuna in a one-on-one fight, without Reborn and co anywhere near.
I won't say that since Hibari and Mukuro might beat Tsuna they are now invincible either. There're many characters that might potentially beat Tsuna -- or lose to him if they're not careful/get carried away/Tsuna knows what he's doing/etc -- so they should also be able to fight each other more or less equally. One is Iemitsu, as we've already had a chance to see.
Personally, I think it's the only way for the series to keep intrigue. The day we get a truly invincible Tsuna/Hibari/whoever is the day the manga ends. :D
VongolaSky
January 03, 2012, 04:39 PM
that's quite odd that's there's a resetting of how powerful the characters are...since mukuro got his ass tricked by daemon spade and tsuna defeated him..oh well, it wouldn't be interesting if tsuna was invincible even tho the lemitsu power level is like IMPOSSIBLE
---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------
we all know that hibari's dad is chuck Norris
Sademi
January 03, 2012, 04:44 PM
Seems there is no chapter this week... unfortunately. Next chapter will be on January 11.
matzik1212
January 06, 2012, 04:52 AM
Well i guess i'm the only one who agrees with my views lol. But anyway i also respect you opinion ZERO PHONEIX :) and in a way i understand your point. To put it simply what i have a problem with is with Tsuna's character per total. I still think if his attitude and views were to change nothing Mukuro could do would be enough to defeat him 'cause his Sky attribute is by far superior than Mist. And i know experience is important but not just once people with experience have been defeated by others who didn't have the same lvl of experience , luck is also and important factor here and as far as i know i think Tsuna is a lucky guy after all he had the chance to become from a complete loser the boss of the most powerful mafia family in KHR world :D
keng4896
January 07, 2012, 08:30 AM
In case no one noticed, if Tsuna's usual personality came out when he's in Dying Will Mode (he's actually showing an expression that we can only see before tsuna goes dying will mode, the expression where tsuna's eyes go white), it actually resembles that dying will pills are starting to lose it's ability to keep the user cool...i had some strange feeling about this. And yes! Marmon is so going all out next chapter (i guess)! Hibari's gonna get screwed!
-Ken-
January 07, 2012, 02:06 PM
I'm not too sure about Marmon strength. Doesn't he lose to Mukuro with his pacifer even long before ring/box/vongola gear upgrade were introduced. He look pretty weak.
tiramisu
January 08, 2012, 04:04 AM
I'm not too sure about Marmon strength. Doesn't he lose to Mukuro with his pacifer even long before ring/box/vongola gear upgrade were introduced. He look pretty weak.
Not at all.
This battle is different,Marmon is fighting for something,its biggest dream,to return finally normal.
Marmon in that Mukuro battle saved his/her strengh to be able to run away,we already noticed that Marmon IS a coward after all.
Marmon never went all out(and to be honest i think that Amano at the time didn't have any idea about what to do with the arcobaleno characters)
And don't forget that apparently the curse reduced their original strengh alot.
So don't be surprise if Adult!Mammon is way stronger than Mukuro&other-illusionists.
hdiuy
January 08, 2012, 06:39 AM
And don't forget that apparently the curse reduced their original strengh alot.
I'm not so sure about this . Losing the pacifiers would mean they would lose a (1 of the most powerful) source of dying will flames emitter. Though it remains to be seen if the chibi form has the physical capabilities of their adult form
keng4896
January 08, 2012, 07:53 AM
Time to imagine the strengths of some Arcobalenos...
Marmon: Sends Hibari flying out of the hotel without any weapons, and turns the hotel into a giant robot (lol...)
Fon: Swallows the hotel with a giant dragon (as shown in Anime fillers)
Verde: He's the only one who doesn't seem to have any fighting capabilities...but that doesn't mean that his knowledege and building skills are the same after losing the pacifier...imagine this:
Colonello fires his ultimate rifle shot, and a giant robot appears and blocks it with one hand.
Mukuro: How did you do that?
Verde: I just used some garbage from the trash can, and built it with some gum.
Everyone: ..................
just_a_girl
January 08, 2012, 01:15 PM
I'm not so sure about this . Losing the pacifiers would mean they would lose a (1 of the most powerful) source of dying will flames emitter. Though it remains to be seen if the chibi form has the physical capabilities of their adult form
Well, this has always been rather vague :D Maybe Amano couldn't decide herself, and since the plot was occupied by Byakuran and Millefiore for the better part of the series she was in no rush. Now she'll have to make it clear though.
I can only say this: if the Arcobaleno retained their original strength, there would be no point in the 3-minutes curse release they've been granted during the current tournament. Therefore, it seems that they used to be more powerful back in the good ole days lol.
hdiuy
January 08, 2012, 06:35 PM
I can only say this: if the Arcobaleno retained their original strength, there would be no point in the 3-minutes curse release they've been granted during the current tournament. Therefore, it seems that they used to be more powerful back in the good ole days lol.
Umm the reason the curse release was there, was because it would allow the arcobaleno to take part in the fight. Dying will flames are the ki of the series, without the pacifiers the arcobaleno would lose one of the most powerful DWF emitter in the series. They could get rings and stuff but i highly doubt they will allow the arcobaleno to spew as much flames as the pacifiers. Its possible that in adult form , they have higher physical capabilities then their chibi form though.
From a shounen plot-moving POV, it seems very possible that their adult form would be stronger. But from a logical POV, it doesn't make sense that after getting 1/3 of the 7^3 that their DWM will be drastically reduced(unless the pacifiers was designed to reduced the DWM output of the characters,which seems unlikey). I'm hoping that Amano touches on this considering how bombastic the battles have become during the recent few arcs.
keng4896
January 09, 2012, 02:53 AM
Come to think of it, Amano has never shown the true importance of the pacifiers. Although its 1/3 of the 7^3, however it seems too protected when compared to the vongola and mare rings. Anyone had an idea of the true responsibility of arcobalenos?
Miyanoai
January 09, 2012, 03:17 PM
Not a clue, protect the 7^3? That's the closest thing, it seems. As for their powers getting, maybe the pacifiers are powerful, but in a way that they are meant to make the most powerful people weaker. Maybe only two thirds if the 7^3 is meant for offence and the pacifiers for defense...if anyone gets what I mean...maybe the pacifiers are just one of those sacred things that curses anyone who tries to use it so they CAN'T be used. Just sprouting out ideas here...XD
keng4896
January 10, 2012, 03:07 AM
Perhaps at some point, we will realize the true use of the 7^3 (seriously, using 14 rings and 7 pacifiers to create a new world is...overpowered). And the power of 7^3 will all go to Tsuna, for an epic boss fight!
And i had some ideas of checkerface's true identity, perhaps he's.......another ARCOBALENO!
ZERO PHOENIX
January 10, 2012, 10:43 AM
And i had some ideas of checkerface's true identity, perhaps he's.......another ARCOBALENO!
That's probably the case. My only question would be how did he escape the curse. Of course, for all we know he could be the one responsible for it.
elitefox
January 10, 2012, 08:22 PM
Time to imagine the strengths of some Arcobalenos...
Marmon: Sends Hibari flying out of the hotel without any weapons, and turns the hotel into a giant robot (lol...)
Fon: Swallows the hotel with a giant dragon (as shown in Anime fillers)
Verde: He's the only one who doesn't seem to have any fighting capabilities...but that doesn't mean that his knowledege and building skills are the same after losing the pacifier...imagine this:
Colonello fires his ultimate rifle shot, and a giant robot appears and blocks it with one hand.
Mukuro: How did you do that?
Verde: I just used some garbage from the trash can, and built it with some gum.
Everyone: ..................
hahaha, that would be like Franky of OP XD
This is funny as hell, There isn't much that downgrade verde's skill right haha, or else as you stated, he can build anything like 1000% faster than his chibi mode :hee
---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------
I too was impressed with Colonello. It was kind of funny when I was reading it because the moment I saw that rifle I said to myself, "Oh shit. Two teams are going to be eliminated." :s
You have to look at things from his standpoint though. He's closer to a true mafioso than Tsuna is and as such, he knows how to place the family before his own needs, unlike Tsuna. Mukuro has informed Tsuna at least a dozen times that he would eventually take over Tsuna's body and crush the Vongola. Add on the fact that Tsuna, having teamed up with Byakuran is like inviting a cobra into your bed and Iemitsu (hope I got his dad's name right) isn't having any of that. As far as he's concerned both Byakuran and Mukuro are gambits that are equally dangerous to the Vongola. If he can eliminate them from the match and even kill them then he's going to do what he has to do while he has an opening. He's not some cliche shounen dad (at least for the moment) he's mafia. I personally like Mukuro and Byakuran but if I was in Iemitsu's case I'd do the same thing. It's not about being everyone's best friend, it's about looking at any given situation, analyzing the problems, and taking steps to solve those problems. Byakuran (potentially) and Mukuro are both threats to the Vongola and with that in mind, well I'm sorry but they have to die. That's how Iemitsu is looking at it.
I think you mean seriousness? Seriosity is not a word. Apart from that I agree with you. Tsuna has been in enough life and death battles to know that he needs to get his head in the game.
Me too. I mean my word grow a pair.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Both Mukuro and Hibari are far superior to Tsuna in terms of combat experience, cunning, and raw power. The only reason Tsuna has taken down foes that they couldn't such as XanXus and Byakuran is simple plotkai. In a full on balls out battle between Tsuna, XanXus (love this guy), Byakuran, Hibari, and Mukuro, I guarantee Tsuna would be the first one eliminated if he didn't have his plot armor protecting him. Yes I'm aware that neither Byakuran nor XanXus are Tsuna's guardians however I'm making note of them because Tsuna, while very very powerful and far more skilled than a certain ADHD ninja in an orange jumpsuit, is really no match for the heavy-hitters in this game.
I disagree, you are forgetting one factor that made Tsuna win most of his fights, his lineage
"HyperIntuition", if not for that, he wouldn't defeat enemies like Mukuro and Xanxus
Skyguardian
January 10, 2012, 08:45 PM
Time to imagine the strengths of some Arcobalenos...
Marmon: Sends Hibari flying out of the hotel without any weapons, and turns the hotel into a giant robot (lol...)
Fon: Swallows the hotel with a giant dragon (as shown in Anime fillers)
Verde: He's the only one who doesn't seem to have any fighting capabilities...but that doesn't mean that his knowledege and building skills are the same after losing the pacifier...imagine this:
Colonello fires his ultimate rifle shot, and a giant robot appears and blocks it with one hand.
Mukuro: How did you do that?
Verde: I just used some garbage from the trash can, and built it with some gum.
Everyone: ..................
So to make this clear... Verde is McGyver?
KBraga
January 11, 2012, 04:41 PM
Man do you really enjoy robots hehe
It pretty obvious they get stronger without the pacifier up till now, but I agree that Amano will need to use her best logic to explain why that, since the 7^3 thing.
If he had been a Arcobaleno shouldn't he understand the suffering of the fellow ones, unless he is a true sadist... Maybe he is the one that is missing in the battle, clear pacifier, so he and tsunomichi (is it right) are from the vindice. :O
Masterpice
January 12, 2012, 12:43 PM
new chapter: http://www.mangareader.net/katekyo-hitman-reborn/368
Skyguardian
January 12, 2012, 02:32 PM
It's out on Mangastream.
It's nice to know there is actually a group able to sub it which isn't screwing it up that hard like the one on mangareader.
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