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HegemonKhan
December 16, 2011, 04:47 PM
Did the other BCs know that Rafaela was "re-instated" as the rank 5 ??? Or, was Rafaela as the "re-instated" rank 5, another of Rubel's secret Claymores, unknown about by the Org (Rafaela is known by the Org, but as the "re-instated" rank 5?).

Is it possible that Rubel assassinated Elda, so that he could replace her with Rafaela as the rank 5 ???

I don't recall, the other BCs ever mentioning Rafaela as the rank 5, other than Galatea with her notion of Rafaela+Renee secretly spying upon the Pieta Battle, with Rimuto's seeming verification of it... or maybe not... maybe Rimuto truly didn't know and thus truly didn't want Galatea spreading such rumors (or so he thought it was a rumor).

What are your thoughts on this? Feel free to discuss and/or answer the question (if there's such direct evidence that I've forgotten about).

Alisia
December 17, 2011, 11:34 AM
Raffaella was reinstated when Teresa died. Rubel says the look and the awakening of Priscilla is that the organization has lost the number one to number five at once. For lack of war among the rank and recalls the number from five to hide at the new generation of warrior her real power.

I do not know what else there may have been under.

HegemonKhan
December 17, 2011, 08:31 PM
Yes, Rubel "re-instated" Rafaela as the rank 5, but did he do this in secret on his own, or do the other BCs (Rimuto) know about this and/or ordered Rubel to do this ???

I'm positive that the manga doesn't say which way it is, and so this thread is more of your own thoughts-views on what you think it is with hopefully good support for whichever way you think/view on this :D

Hoping this will become a good discussion-debate! :D

wickedsmile
December 18, 2011, 05:06 AM
I don't believe that the other warriors knew Rafaela's history. Recall that when Luciella awakened, she annihilated most of the organization. That means that most likely, she killed most of the high rank warriors, leaving less powerful warriors or even trainees. Such individuals wouldn't have any knowledge of high rank warriors. The organization seems to keep most of its warriors in the dark. Galatea, who was shown to be keen on current events, did not even know of Alicia and Beth's "special technique."

Also, as Irene meets her executioner, she doesn't seem to recognize her. If Irene did know Rafaela, I doubt any other warriors would. In regards to Elda, it was just circumstances that conspired against her. Had the card arrived in Miria's hands, I'm certain that our Phantom Warrior could have stayed Elda's awakening.

Alisia
December 18, 2011, 05:27 AM
I do not think Rubel has done this in secret. If so, raffaella could not wear the clothing of a claymore. Everyone in the organization know her.

When Raffaella presented to Irene, speak for "the organization's order", so it was just re-instated.

HegemonKhan
December 18, 2011, 09:01 AM
I don't believe that the other warriors knew Rafaela's history. Recall that when Luciella awakened, she annihilated most of the organization. That means that most likely, she killed most of the high rank warriors, leaving less powerful warriors or even trainees. Such individuals wouldn't have any knowledge of high rank warriors. The organization seems to keep most of its warriors in the dark. Galatea, who was shown to be keen on current events, did not even know of Alicia and Beth's "special technique."

Also, as Irene meets her executioner, she doesn't seem to recognize her. If Irene did know Rafaela, I doubt any other warriors would. In regards to Elda, it was just circumstances that conspired against her. Had the card arrived in Miria's hands, I'm certain that our Phantom Warrior could have stayed Elda's awakening.

You're right about the Claymores, as the Org "redacts" their past history and past Claymores from their next Era or "Generation" of Claymores.

Galatea was actually the ONLY Claymore who knew about the Luciela Incident, except she didn't know who the younger sister of Luciela was... and Rubel wouldn't tell her when she asked him, hehe. I think there's much intrigue here, and also in regards to Rubel "allowing" Galatea to see the Soul Link in action... does Rubel plan to use Galatea for a Soul Link... with something else... hehe - I have a very suspicious mind when it comes to Rubel :D

Galatea knew of the Soul Link, as she was the ONLY Claymore to know of the Luciela Incident.

The amusing part was Galatea not knowing that Alicia had an identical twin sister...

Galatea: ~"WTF... Two Alicias???!!!!" hehe :D

wait a minute.... WHOA !!!! Damnnnn.... Rubel is a god! He can tell which one is Beth and which is Alicia! HK's mouth is on the ground. That's some skill... or some inhuman power, by Rubel, lol :D

Irene didn't know about Rafaela because Rafaela was in exile-banishment, and remember that the Luciela Incident was an embarrassment to the Org, hence why they made Rafaela the "fall guy, err lady". So, it makes sense that they'd never tell Irene or any other Claymore about their banished-exiled Claymore... Rafaela.

um... are you mistaking Elda for another Claymore (I think you're thinking of Hilda, Miria's "BFF")? As the manga says nothing about Elda, she was rank 5 -> 6 in Teresa's Era and then she just vanishes as she's not mentioned at all in Clare's Era.

wickedsmile
December 18, 2011, 12:43 PM
um... are you mistaking Elda for another Claymore (I think you're thinking of Hilda, Miria's "BFF")? As the manga says nothing about Elda, she was rank 5 -> 6 in Teresa's Era and then she just vanishes as she's not mentioned at all in Clare's Era.

HK:

Good God, you're right. Elda is the number #5 warrior to which Sophia and Noel refer. Yagi doesn't write anything else about her unfortunately.

Rubel is a sneaky one and he has a good understanding of each Claymore's character. He baited Clare to find Renee. I also think he sensed Galatea's discontent with the Organization's actions in Pieta. Allowing Galatea to see Alicia and Beth and revealing to her how the Organization had created them, just created more resentment within Galatea. She not only had to stand by while half her comrades died, but now sees that a warrior is nothing more than a vehicle to "create awakened beings."

The Organization lost a great asset in Galatea. They depended on her to gather information (The Eye). From the text, Renee/Lune's abilities appear inferior to Galatea's. As an added bonus, Rubel turned a once loyal warrior to the Organization into a enemy of considerable strength and intelligence. Galatea easily outclasses Audrey and Rachel.

faintsmile1992
December 18, 2011, 06:22 PM
I know its slightly off topic but can I comment that the crafty Rubel is absolutely awesome?

HegemonKhan
December 18, 2011, 10:23 PM
Wicked Smile,

Rubel directly saves Galatea's life at least once, he came in and stopped Galatea from peeving off Rimuto with her "big mouth".

I theorize that it was he, Rubel, who saved Galatea from being executed on the spot for letting Clare go free (A direct treason of Rimuto's order) and then lying about it too. Though, it wasn't Alicia, as Galatea didn't see her until back at the HQs. So maybe it was just ?Orsay?... who might have been about to have Galatea executed... as it was he (assuming that the BC with Alicia was-is Orsay) and Alicia who were spying on the Pieta Battle.

Also, it could be quite likely that Rafaela was also going to be executed on the spot as well for the "Luciela Incident", and thus maybe it was Rubel who "negotiated" that Rimuto only banish-exile Rafaela...

to say the least... Rubel does his own thing, and it is always in opposition to the Org... yet he remains alive and extremely high position in the Org... despite being caught himself lying right to Rimuto's face about Clare not surviving the "Ophelia Incident".

Again, my theory is that this is because.... Rubel *IS* the LEADER of the Org, hehe :D

The Org has their living weapons army, and Rubel has his own living weapons ("All Star - Top Draft Pick") army or pawns:

Rafaela, Priscilla, Galatea, Miria, Ophelia, Clare, ~Renee, ~Dietrich, ~Irene, and Destroyer

FrostyMouse
December 19, 2011, 07:09 PM
I don't feel like tracking down the page right now, but when Miria tells the other three to watch out for the top 5, IIRC, Rafaela's callsign was listed as No. 5, which would make her officially No. 5. Although Miria gets some of her info/news from Rubel, she'd probably have had to have met the top 5 at some point.

Now, while Galatea may not know what Beth looks like, but she still probably would've known what Beth's callsign was. Rubel can probably sense some innate difference between Alicia and Beth, but there's also the difference in callsigns.

gherkin
April 04, 2012, 07:15 PM
Lets bring this topic back up to the forefront at this time. The reason being that Ribul & Dae are likely to be taken prisoner or at least on the run in the coming chapters. The wit & motives of each should become plot-points soon.

One thing I saw in this thread that I suspect may come up is Ribul manipulating Galatea. The Dialogue Ribul had with Claire & Jean is one that I, like some others in this thread, don't take at face value. He likely was misrepresenting what actually happened between Galatea and the Organization in some manner.

Since Ribul is known as a rouge agent to Claire, Yuma, Cynthia, (who met him recently) Miria, who conspired with him long ago, & Galetea he will no doubt be a high priority target as the ghosts target & capture MiB's. Intrigue should ensue.