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Sakazuki
December 26, 2011, 12:28 PM
Finally we have some material about this yonkou and we already have mixed feelings towards her. She is big. Shem is disgusting. She is ugly in the same proportion that Sanji is a perverted. And boy, she will do ANYTHING for the sake of her candies.

Let us know what you think about her and her mysterious crew.

yieps
December 26, 2011, 12:34 PM
Maybe she can transform others into animals, maybe even partly.

Sakazuki
December 26, 2011, 01:01 PM
I really would love to her crew have a literature theme based. But still, it’s too early to know if the crew will match my desire anyway.

Let judge her by her flag. We can see that candies are an important element to her, since we can see them on her flag. But there is another important element on her flag, which looks like a tree. Maybe she has a zoan devil fruit that could transform in a tree or flower. Does anybody know any plant that can produce acid?

It would be a good joke if a plant (vegetable) themed character was sou found of candies, as we know that kids doesn’t like vegetables but loves all candies.

What works against my theories is that she is in place that is really dark, what unfit this analysis.

EDIT:

Big Mam, living on Whole Cake Island and eating her underlings, is possibly a reference to the cannibalistic hag in Hansel and Gretel, who lives in a house made of cake and confectionery.

Sachsenhesse
December 26, 2011, 01:18 PM
My guess for inspiration:

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/2/2e/Jabba_the_Hutt_SoC.jpg

both are "powerful", "greedy" and dont care about their underlings, so i kinda expect to have big mam connections to famous piratehunters which she will order to take luffy before her :o

Sakazuki
December 26, 2011, 01:30 PM
My guess for inspiration:

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/2/2e/Jabba_the_Hutt_SoC.jpg

both are "powerful", "greedy" and dont care about their underlings, so i kinda expect to have big mam connections to famous piratehunters which she will order to take luffy before her :o

It would be nice to see a Star Wars tribute, but I can’t see this working in the whole crew. Ok, maybe if we consider that the crewmembers that we already saw are all weirdoes.

ErosVp
December 26, 2011, 01:56 PM
I'm going to make a prediction just in case....

Seeing the mask-man compared to the three eyed girl (here (http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/651/10)), it is clear he must be at most 3 meter tall like Jinbei or Blackbeard, then the tallest normal humans we saw were Kuma and Moria around 6 meters.... Then here (http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/651/11) we see that Big Mama is not twice his height, but a lot more. So my opnion/prediction is that Big Mama is a giant! It fits the name "big" and it makes believable she eats 10 tons of candy... Also she is not Lola's mom.

Sakazuki
December 26, 2011, 02:10 PM
I don’t know if Big Mam is really Lola’s mom. Ok, they’re ugly as the devil, but parenthood is a thing that is somewhat relative in One Piece. Whitebeard pirates called their captain “Pops” and even Ace doesn’t called his biological father by the proper way.
Right know, I can’t see Big Mam been Lola’s mother.

Uriel
December 26, 2011, 02:53 PM
I'll edit the title since the 24hs rule can't be skipped by anyone. I will leave it there until Wednesday considering that maybe there are some who are expecting the chapter that day and doesn't check the forums until then.

Any complain, PM me.

DLord.Van.Buuren
December 26, 2011, 03:04 PM
The REAL Yonkou are Kaidou, Shanks, and Teach. Big Mum doesn't strike me as a super power, in the sense WB and Shanks are. First, she's fat as fuck. Second, her character is ridiculous and silly. Her powers fall in the same ranks as well. To sum it all up, Luffy will have no problem kicking the crap outta of her.

Zehahaha
December 26, 2011, 03:20 PM
The REAL Yonkou are Kaidou, Shanks, and Teach. Big Mum doesn't strike me as a super power, in the sense WB and Shanks are. First, she's fat as fuck. Second, her character is ridiculous and silly. Her powers fall in the same ranks as well. To sum it all up, Luffy will have no problem kicking the crap outta of her.

Hmmm I doubt that.
She must be strong, maybe not strong as WB/Shanks/Teach, but she seems to be an old timer too.

IMO, I think she's like Moria in the sense that she probably have some tricky powers.

But it's true that she didn't left a single impression on me too unlike other uber pirates.

fcToho
December 26, 2011, 04:00 PM
I already wrote it in the chapter thread, but I'm reminded of Ghibli and especially Chihiro (Spirited away).
Here are a few examples:

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Chihiro---Yubaba-spirited-away-399712_953_516.jpg

http://ayakreuz.tripod.com/spiritedkamaji.jpg

MMolch
December 26, 2011, 04:08 PM
my first crazy guesses:
- devil fruit: spit (kinda like magelans poison fruit)
- maybe she is pregnant?! would fit in the "need foooood" and "mama" stuff (suddenly: 100 ugly babies) ... but her head is even bigger ...
- luffy won't fight against her in the next ~ 3?4? bigger arcs (seriously: beating up one of the four most powerful and influential pirates right at the beginning ... come on ... and don't underestimate her)

Aaaand:
- did you mention that lola and the skull on big mams pirate flag have the same haircolour? maybe you already knew that, but i just realized it :blink:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111225073009/onepiece/images/thumb/2/2b/Big_Mom%27s_Jolly_Roger.jpg/830px-Big_Mom%27s_Jolly_Roger.jpg (http://onepiece.wikia.com/index.php?title=Charlotte_Linlin&image=Big_Mom-27s_Jolly_Roger-jpg)

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100414201847/onepiece/images/thumb/b/b0/Lola_human.PNG/340px-Lola_human.PNG (http://onepiece.wikia.com/index.php?title=Lola&image=Lola_human-PNG)

Mashiro_Luna
December 26, 2011, 04:11 PM
^I got the same impression from Big Mom.

People should stop underestimating Big Mom, she is a Yonko she's obviously a massive powerhouse. Saying she's weak because she's fat would be the same as think Whitebeard was weak cause he was an old fart, the last mistake you'd ever make.

If she was weak enough that Luffy could 'own' her like people have been saying the World Government would have sent someone to get rid of her a long time ago. She has to be at least equal to Kaido and Shanks in power.

Zehahaha
December 26, 2011, 04:15 PM
^I got the same impression from Big Mom.

People should stop underestimating Big Mom, she is a Yonko she's obviously a massive powerhouse. Saying she's weak because she's fat would be the same as think Whitebeard was weak cause he was an old fart, the last mistake you'd ever make.

If she was weak enough that Luffy could 'own' her like people have been saying the World Government would have sent someone to get rid of her a long time ago. She has to be at least equal to Kaido and Shanks in power.


Erm...
Erm...

WG main concern is to keep the balance here. WG cannot control all the seas, especially the NW which seems to be quite different from the first part of the GL. Therefore, they cannot take all the Yonkou out.

But as I said, she's strong, but definitely not strong as Shanks or WB... She looks more like Moria style who back at the Thriller Bark was all hype and talk, and got weaker because he decided to become a lazy retard. And that's how Big Mam looked to me.

odz
December 26, 2011, 04:24 PM
If she's yonkou, then she definitely can't be underestimated. She obviously commands a fleet as well, so whatever her powers may be, aligning himself against a yonkou is going to be a huge impediment for the SH crew. Being declared a target of a yonkou is even more dangerous.
I think that what is most interesting is Luffy "claiming" fishman island as his own. That seems to be common practice in the New World, so I wonder if this is going to become a pattern.
My prediction for her power is something related to Greed's power from Fullmetal Alchemist (chomp chomp fruit?). Maybe she can bite through anything. It could be pretty unstoppable offensive and defensive power, especially when combined with Haki.

eefrit
December 26, 2011, 05:39 PM
Why is she "definitely" not as strong as Shanks or Teach? We haven't even seen her lift a finger, let alone fight. That would be similar to me saying Jinbe isn't as strong as the rest of the Shichibukai when he was still locked up in prison. She is a Yonko, she is at the least, as strong as Shanks and Kaido. If she wasn't, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't be a Yonko anymore as Kaido or Teach or some other pirate would have taken her out already.

That being said, from what we have seen of her, she can drool her stomach acid and is most likely a giant. She looks to be larger than Moria. Her crew, as most crews we have been seeing from the New World is really diverse. Another walking animal like Bepo, a long leg tribesman, a three eyed hot girl, and a thing with a paper mask on it's face. Pretty weird, but cool all in all.

On another note, I'm also a believer in the Big Mam= Lola's Mom theory. That might come into play during the course of BM and Luffy's battle(cause I highly doubt they are going to meet in the next couple of arcs), because it could be revealed that the reason Big Mam wants the candy is because she is upset over the disappearance of her daughter.

EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice that above the three eyed girl, there was a jelly like substance on the chair although it wasn't anywhere else in the castle?

Zehahaha
December 26, 2011, 05:51 PM
I like this type of argument when it says : " If X Pirate isn't strong, he would've been taken out by Y pirate ".
That's implying that actually Teach or Kaido or any other pirate wants to bring her down.

As for the " definitely " from my part, I'm sorry, that's just what I felt from here, she's absolutely not in the league of Shanks and WB. There's absolutely no way that someone like her is as strong as these two, I have and will never have any evidence to back up my claim unless Oda shows us a fight opposing these characters, but I know when a character is stronger than another, especially since Oda's style makes it easy to spot it.

The feeling, I wouldn't say intimidation, that WB and Shanks gave were truly something else, I could easily say they're STRONG. Or more precisely, they're at the TOP. They way Oda draws them, they give a vibe different from any character, the only characters so far from whom I felt such a vibe are WB/Shanks/Mihawk/The admirals. The first time I saw them, I was like " Damn, these guys must be top tier ". Crocodile, Doflamingo, Kuma do give such a vibe too, but not to the extent of those six.

It is all from the introduction, and Oda do put an emphasis on that, heck we can even judge the strenght of a character coming from the introduction.

We have not seen Buggy fight when he encountered Luffy first, but I knew he was weak, same with Mr.3, Foxy...

That's why, I say that she's not at the level of WB/Shanks, but BB or Kaido not sure, I still have mixed feeling towards BB as a character.

eefrit
December 26, 2011, 06:13 PM
Considering how BB is acting as of now, why wouldn't he want to take her down? But anyway, your "definitely" statement is my only real problem. You can believe that she is not as strong as Shanks and the others if you want, that is your opinion, but stating it as if it were a fact when we have seen nothing that says otherwise for both possibilities, kind of peeved me off. You could be right or I could be right, the fact is we just don't know yet. Hell we could possibly never know.

Long story short, I respect your opinion, I just wish you'd give her a chance to prove herself strong or not.

Zeltrax
December 26, 2011, 10:49 PM
I already posted in one of the thread but anyway,
I think her powers is something related to gluttony..
My prediction is either the glutton glutton fruit or the candy candy fruit..(sounds weird :teehee)

I predict that her powers will be something like turning her opponent to candy or food with a touch or with a specific condition.

eefrit
December 26, 2011, 11:18 PM
I already posted in one of the thread but anyway,
I think her powers is something related to gluttony..
My prediction is either the glutton glutton fruit or the candy candy fruit..(sounds weird :teehee)

I predict that her powers will be something like turning her opponent to candy or food with a touch or with a specific condition.

Ahh, the Majin Buu effect, huh? I can't really see it. That would make her fight with Luffy to easy...unless...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4c-Y8diIBE

nguqua
December 27, 2011, 01:17 AM
Erm...
Erm...

WG main concern is to keep the balance here. WG cannot control all the seas, especially the NW which seems to be quite different from the first part of the GL. Therefore, they cannot take all the Yonkou out.

But as I said, she's strong, but definitely not strong as Shanks or WB... She looks more like Moria style who back at the Thriller Bark was all hype and talk, and got weaker because he decided to become a lazy retard. And that's how Big Mam looked to me.

I respectfully disagreed. A shichibukai is appointed and relieved of duty by the government. That's why we see someone like Moria still holding the title until the government finally decided to "kick" him out. However, the title of yonkou is not. It's a constant struggle of power. If you are not strong enough than you will lose your title. Being a yonkou in the new world means having lots and lots of powerful enemies who are out to take your head. We can see the example of White Beard having numerous enemies in Impel Down's lowest level.

For Shichibukai, the difference in each individual's power varies greatly. This is because there's no struggle for power between each shichibukai as the titles are given by the WG. However, Yonkou are not appointed by any authority and simply a natural occurences in which great powers begin to draw their boundaries. This requires a fundamental factor in which the powers have to at a equilibrium for the 4 forces to be in balance. If Big Mom is not as strong as the other yonkou, she would have been taken out already or reduced to a level in which her power no longer wields as much influence. This is the simple rule when the powers naturally draw their boundaries and not being monitered by a set system like the Shichibukai.

As for giving the impression of not being powerful for being fat, we can see that Jinbe is fat but very powerful. As for being carefree and vain (obsessed with candies), we learn that the most powerful or potentially powerful people in one piece are carefree and vain, but can turn serious when the situation arises - Garp, Luffy, Shanks.

xeteboi
December 27, 2011, 03:17 AM
The feeling, I wouldn't say intimidation, that WB and Shanks gave were truly something else, I could easily say they're STRONG. Or more precisely, they're at the TOP. They way Oda draws them, they give a vibe different from any character, the only characters so far from whom I felt such a vibe are WB/Shanks/Mihawk/The admirals. The first time I saw them, I was like " Damn, these guys must be top tier ". Crocodile, Doflamingo, Kuma do give such a vibe too, but not to the extent of those six.

I guess the point of Zehaha here is that BigMom is not as the same feat as WhiteBeared or Shanks and making her the weakest among the Yonkou though that is also my speculation about her..


If Big Mom is not as strong as the other yonkou, she would have been taken out already or reduced to a level in which her power no longer wields as much influence. This is the simple rule when the powers naturally draw their boundaries and not being monitered by a set system like the Shichibukai.

A Yonkou doesnt mean these 4 emperors are equal in power, logically one of them is weaker than the other while another is hightier than the other.. If I rank them with my prediction,.it will be Teach, Shanks, Kaido and Big MOm..

vagabond87
December 27, 2011, 03:23 AM
Maby she is sugar logia and thats why she loves sweets just like Magellan loved to eat poison. But I remember that on one of movies syrup logia was used...

Sachsenhesse
December 27, 2011, 06:30 AM
jup the movie with the "ex-admiral" ^^ best movie after strong world so far imho

anyway my thoughts of the power: paramecia sugar sugar no mi(dont know japanese) she can transform every sugar in her body to pure energy, which boost her physical powers to an abnormal status, kinda like gear2x10

we already got a hormonfruit, so it should be possible to transform sugar into energy within a second

Sakazuki
December 27, 2011, 06:59 AM
For the ones that are saying Big Mom is the weakest of the yonkous, the principle of that group of pirates is that they’re equal somehow, and I interpret this as that their strength is equal.

The only ‘fight’ of yonkous that we have seen so far came from Shanks against Whitebeard and that struggle showed to us how they’re beasts and in equal terms. I can’t expect less from Kaidou and Big Mom.

Zehahaha
December 27, 2011, 07:19 AM
I respectfully disagreed. A shichibukai is appointed and relieved of duty by the government. That's why we see someone like Moria still holding the title until the government finally decided to "kick" him out. However, the title of yonkou is not. It's a constant struggle of power. If you are not strong enough than you will lose your title. Being a yonkou in the new world means having lots and lots of powerful enemies who are out to take your head. We can see the example of White Beard having numerous enemies in Impel Down's lowest level.

For Shichibukai, the difference in each individual's power varies greatly. This is because there's no struggle for power between each shichibukai as the titles are given by the WG. However, Yonkou are not appointed by any authority and simply a natural occurences in which great powers begin to draw their boundaries. This requires a fundamental factor in which the powers have to at a equilibrium for the 4 forces to be in balance. If Big Mom is not as strong as the other yonkou, she would have been taken out already or reduced to a level in which her power no longer wields as much influence. This is the simple rule when the powers naturally draw their boundaries and not being monitered by a set system like the Shichibukai.

As for giving the impression of not being powerful for being fat, we can see that Jinbe is fat but very powerful. As for being carefree and vain (obsessed with candies), we learn that the most powerful or potentially powerful people in one piece are carefree and vain, but can turn serious when the situation arises - Garp, Luffy, Shanks.

Implying that Yonkou do compete against each other...
We know for a fact that WB wanted a family, not fighting against pirate nor islands. Same with Shanks who wanted to have adventures...
Big Mam only interested in candies, shes doesn't seem the type to attack others and mind her business too.

The Yonkou so far didn't show us anything that may suggest that they're in competition, and it does seems that even Kaidou didn't want the status quo to be broken that's why he tried to stop WB back then, if he wanted to kill WB, he would've waited for the war and kill him the way Teach did.

They have territories, and but they mind their business, heck they're not even interested in achieving the title of Pirate King. The only competition is coming from small crews (Supernovas) who are trying to become PK, and BB didn't do anything that suggests he wants to change the status quo too, as he merely took WB's territories, end of story so far.

It will be again Luffy who will trigger change as he will take down Big Mam which will lead to bigger changes, in the same fashion Crocodile's defeat caused.

When there's no intention of actually competing with each other, we cannot say that they're all equal.
Saying that WB is equal to Big Mam is an insult to him (you'll say we don't know that, but that's my opinion based on hints on Manga, remember Sengoku that WB was at the top, he didn't even say the Yonkou, but he said WB).

If they were equal, might as well finish OP after Luffy's will defeat Big Mam, since that would mean he's in the level of WB and Shanks.

GiantAlienHamster
December 27, 2011, 07:30 AM
I don’t know if Big Mam is really Lola’s mom. Ok, they’re ugly as the devil, but parenthood is a thing that is somewhat relative in One Piece. Whitebeard pirates called their captain “Pops” and even Ace doesn’t called his biological father by the proper way.
Right know, I can’t see Big Mam been Lola’s mother.

If she would be Lola's mom, then that would mean, that some really, really, really unlucky guy once had sex with her. She probably ate the poor fella after that...
Seriously, Lola's mom has to be someone else.


Anyway...
What is the most interesting for me is actually not Big Mam herself, but the masked guy. He is carrying a huge sword with a special design and it's just as huge as Mihawk's which also had a unique design.
Sooo.... could it be, after sooo many years, that this could be the second Supreme Grade Sword (最上大業物 Saijō Ō Wazamono?) we will get to see?

It was said once, that the most famous swords are all in the hands of powerful pirates and pirate-hunters. This guy is a commander of a yonkou. Him having one of the top 12 swords would make sense.

xeteboi
December 27, 2011, 08:00 AM
Can I ask where did you got that DRAGON SWORD idea..is it just your given name for the 2nd strongest sword?

Uriel
December 27, 2011, 10:09 AM
Maby she is sugar logia and thats why she loves sweets just like Magellan loved to eat poison. But I remember that on one of movies syrup logia was used...
Paramecia. They both have a Paramecia.

And it's my belief that Big Mom can't be weak. At all. We're in the New World, one of the four that the WG fears and the reason to create Shichibukai to balance the powers. That means She is strong as hell to keep her territory and strong pirates out of her domain.

Jorge D. Dragon
December 27, 2011, 10:51 AM
Big Mam isn't weak. She didn't even give me an impresion of a weak person. She is a Yonkou. She might not be the strongest. As I see it and as it was stated in the manga Whitebeard was the strongest man in the World at this time, so he was on top individually. But I see other three Yonkou being more or less equal. Also I don't think that the difference between WB and other three Yonkou was that big. Speaking about them we should also take in account that Yonkou's power isn't only his own power, but also a power of his crew.
In my opinion Big Mam looks like a Giant and thus her physical power should be quite considerable. Also I believe she might have a DF power and thus it makes her way stronger. Also She might hyave Haki.

It would be really interesting to see her power, but I don't think Luffy will take her down at this point. It would be at least strange, because for Luffy to take down one of the ten strongest persons in the World would be too fast. I think we'll have several Arcs where Luffy and his crew will grow stronger and maybe getting another crewmember and maybe also Jimbei and then he might have a fight against her.

Razh
December 27, 2011, 12:30 PM
I'm going to make a prediction just in case....

Seeing the mask-man compared to the three eyed girl (here (http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/651/10)), it is clear he must be at most 3 meter tall like Jinbei or Blackbeard, then the tallest normal humans we saw were Kuma and Moria around 6 meters.... Then here (http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/651/11) we see that Big Mama is not twice his height, but a lot more. So my opnion/prediction is that Big Mama is a giant! It fits the name "big" and it makes believable she eats 10 tons of candy... Also she is not Lola's mom.

I think it's a matter of perspective. Bobbin is standing a little closer to us than the girl. It's not a 2D manga, after all. Plus, Bobbin's companions all seem to be as tall as him. They can't all be that big, but I guess we'll see. As it is now, I doubt Bobbin is 3 meters high.

As for Mom, I don't know. From what we've seen, she could turn out to be a giant. Or she could be of Moria's size. I'm leaning towards the 2nd. Also, I'm with you about Lola. I just can't see mother and daughter being so different in all, but who knows, right?

GiantAlienHamster
December 27, 2011, 01:44 PM
Can I ask where did you got that DRAGON SWORD idea..is it just your given name for the 2nd strongest sword?

Yeah sorry, in the German One Piece version the top 12 swords are called "dragon swords". I'm not sure, if this is a correct translation or just made up by some shitty German translator...
Anyway... it seems to be Supreme Grade Sword in the English version

ErosVp
December 27, 2011, 03:55 PM
@Razh

I know Oda usually mess up with sizes and proportions, but ever since that guy predicted Shirahoshi was Poseidon I want to hit a prediction too! XD

nguqua
December 27, 2011, 07:54 PM
Implying that Yonkou do compete against each other...
We know for a fact that WB wanted a family, not fighting against pirate nor islands. Same with Shanks who wanted to have adventures...
Big Mam only interested in candies, shes doesn't seem the type to attack others and mind her business too.

The Yonkou so far didn't show us anything that may suggest that they're in competition, and it does seems that even Kaidou didn't want the status quo to be broken that's why he tried to stop WB back then, if he wanted to kill WB, he would've waited for the war and kill him the way Teach did.

They have territories, and but they mind their business, heck they're not even interested in achieving the title of Pirate King. The only competition is coming from small crews (Supernovas) who are trying to become PK, and BB didn't do anything that suggests he wants to change the status quo too, as he merely took WB's territories, end of story so far.

It will be again Luffy who will trigger change as he will take down Big Mam which will lead to bigger changes, in the same fashion Crocodile's defeat caused.

When there's no intention of actually competing with each other, we cannot say that they're all equal.
Saying that WB is equal to Big Mam is an insult to him (you'll say we don't know that, but that's my opinion based on hints on Manga, remember Sengoku that WB was at the top, he didn't even say the Yonkou, but he said WB).

If they were equal, might as well finish OP after Luffy's will defeat Big Mam, since that would mean he's in the level of WB and Shanks.

Perhaps I have not been clear enough and I apologize for that. I did not mean the Yonkou have to directly compete with one another. As natural forces of tremendous powers, they simply absorb territories till they reach an equilibrium when the boundaries between powers are set. If she is not as powerful, that does not mean that she will be eliminated by the other yonkou, but that she will not be able to absorb as much influence and would not be considered a yonkou. Remember, again, shichibukai is different than yonkou. It's not an appointed title by a single authority.

Beside, nothing suggests otherwise as you claimed it is. The only one of the yonkou that does not show interest in the title of PK is White Beard. Nothing has been said about the others. The purpose of Kaidou attacking White Beard is also not given.

You claimed that nothing suggests that they compete with one another (which I never disagreed), but I can use the same principle and say that nothing suggests that she is weak. Being vain and carefree, as I said, does not manifest anything about one's power as far as one piece goes. The comparison to past plot pattern of fighting against crocodile is irrelevant as we do not know if Luffy will actually face Big Mom first before the other yonkou. He is having a verbal challenge against Big Mom, but that doesnt mean he will encounter and fight her first before the other yonkou. Remember how Roro clashed with Mihawk way early in the manga? Does that mean that he confronted Mihawk again right when they enter Grand Line?

My biggest problem with your posts is that you requires evidence from others but do not use the same principle for your speculations. You are so certain of your prediction in which you have no evidence as it is too early to make any solid assumption. No hint in the manga points toward her being weaker. I highly respect your opinion as it may turn out to be very correct, but be so certain of it is simply not prudent.

kkck
December 28, 2011, 08:28 PM
The way I see it there are two things which we have to consider when it comes to a yonko. The first is personal strength. This is important as making a name for yourself is unlikely without this however I personally don't think this is the sole determinant factor when it comes to being a yonko. Big mom is definitely insanely strong, that much is clear however based on what we have seen it is not a fact that she is as strong or stronger than anyone in particular. For me the determinant factor when it comes to being a yonko is something different. I would think that what makes you or destroys you as a yonko is the people and the strength of the people that follow you. All yonko invariably have powerful crews behind them and a number of particularly strong people with them. Gathering strong people is not easy in the least as they are in itself rare and their influence great. Take aokiji, his loss was considered in itself an entire tangible fraction of the power of the world government. The great war which just took place was at large not decided by great military strategy and numbers but rather the individual actions of very few men (the admirals and commanders who fought each other, BBs crew, the many new world pirates and commanders who made damn sure luffy didn't get stomped by people of mediocre power). BB went to nothing but outright INSANE extremes to gather a crew of insanely strong pirates to say the least. In this regard, a yonko needs as much strength as is required to control a given crew of people of enough strength to be feared in the new world. The trick is to gather an actual crew with actual strength to follow you and around that crew gather allies which will be loyal enough to give you control over a piece of land. IMO it would not be strange that there are people out there with a decent bit of strength but have failed to build a crew with enough powerful crewmembers and gathered allies around them.

Lets take the sunny pirates in this context. Jinbe was without a doubt insanely strong (we even saw him giving arlong a beating although that is perhaps not quite an accomplishment) and tiger gave a fight to a VA and apparently elite marines. However, they were the only strong people there, the third in command would have been arlong who would have been fodder in the grand scheme of things even if he had been several times stronger than what he was. With the members it had there never was much of a chance to do anything in itself great among great pirates, they simply did not have the manpower to aspire to more.

Interestingly, based on what I have written it would seem luffy already meets the requirements to be a yonko in many ways. Luffy has already gathered a highly capable crew around him and it would not be strange in the least that each individual member of the monster trio would be strong enough to at least give an admiral a run for his money. Franky and brook should be relevant fighters in this regard as well although not necessarily enough to give someone like an admiral a run for his money. Ussop or chopper are certainly not up there but with their abilities they are at least strong enough to be feared. More so, luffy has already gathered allies of some worth. The WB pirates or its remmants are at least luffy's allies, jinbe is of some worth and he would certainly go to any lengths to help luffy, the 30000 pirates luffy just freed have a huge debt towards luffy.

Zmsp
December 28, 2011, 09:13 PM
Putting aside the necessary factors to be considered a Yonkou, I think considering Big mom weaker than the other Yonkou is plain dumb, it can obviously happen, but there's absolutely no evidence of it and to be honest,it goes against the natural order of things in the One Piece universe, aside from Buggy who is a character used mostly for comic reasons, every leader of an organization is usually the strongest one in it aswell, so Big mom should be no exception, considering she secured herself the position of Yonkou for apparently several years now, she commands a very powerful entity and is surely the strongest among that very same entity.

I honestly think people have been mistaken by the fact that such a frontal declaration of war was made so soon on a yonkou, so people naturally assume that considering luffy will still improve during his adventure and the first major appearence was made by Big Mom, she must be weaker than the other yonkou, who have been hyped to be some of the last encounters of luffy (considering BB the final antagonist and Shanks the one who indicates that luffy fulfilled his dream), but we dont know exactly when will luffy encounter Charlotte so that's a wrong assumption IMO.

I even think there's more evidence of Big Mom being a powerhouse than the opposite! She was the first Yonkou who had a relation with her crew that seemed mostly based on fear, they probably respect her and all, but both Shanks and WB had their crews seing them as not only a leader but an inspiration of some sort, while Charlotte was mostly shown as a tyrant, so to be feared by most of her crew,and considering we're talking about a crew who is considered on pair with the strongest of the strongest,she MUST be strong.

ErosVp
December 28, 2011, 10:35 PM
I doubt Luffy can take a Yonkou yet! Especially because she must have guys of Marco and Jozu caliber in her crew.... But if Luffy takes his time and defeat those kind of subordinates first.... Maybe if she is really Lola's mom (which I doubt now) the fight will stop in the middle, saving Luffy.

bisha16
December 29, 2011, 08:12 AM
I doubt Luffy can take a Yonkou yet! Especially because she must have guys of Marco and Jozu caliber in her crew.... But if Luffy takes his time and defeat those kind of subordinates first.... Maybe if she is really Lola's mom (which I doubt now) the fight will stop in the middle, saving Luffy.

I realy doubt that if it will come to a confrontation between those 2 I think that Luffy will gather a lot of ally(strong ones) who will take care of BIG MOMs top crew members and Luffy will fight personally with BIG MOM.

My prediction is that Luffy will meet someone who hates BIG MOM to death(because its been shown that she can do crazy thing about candy and she might have kill a lot of innocent people).and maybe this person might have trained all his life to kill BIG MOM and so he will make an ally of Luffy and help him take down BIG MOM.

trigonoah
December 29, 2011, 03:08 PM
let's put this in basic math people. i know we're all excited Luffy and Co. displayed some new abilities and can't wait to see the fruit of their training, but you can't let those hopes get the best of your sanity. Big Mum is a Yonkou, which immediately means she's crazy powerful. She has to be on par with WB, Shanks, and Kaidou. If she was on Luffy's level she would not have lasted ever as a Yonkou; the title would have been bequeathed years before. to explain this point lets put it in simple math:

1 >= The probability of pirates in the New World that are stronger than Luffy and/or his crewmates >> 0

That simple. It's certain there are lots of pirates stronger than the Strawhats currently are, so how come none of them decided to usurp BM's title?

Deuces.

nguqua
December 29, 2011, 03:46 PM
Interestingly, based on what I have written it would seem luffy already meets the requirements to be a yonko in many ways. Luffy has already gathered a highly capable crew around him and it would not be strange in the least that each individual member of the monster trio would be strong enough to at least give an admiral a run for his money. Franky and brook should be relevant fighters in this regard as well although not necessarily enough to give someone like an admiral a run for his money. Ussop or chopper are certainly not up there but with their abilities they are at least strong enough to be feared. More so, luffy has already gathered allies of some worth. The WB pirates or its remmants are at least luffy's allies, jinbe is of some worth and he would certainly go to any lengths to help luffy, the 30000 pirates luffy just freed have a huge debt towards luffy.

I agree with you that there are 2 factors that make yonkou a yonkou. Taking WB pirates for example, he has at least 2 captains that are comparable in power to him (though not as strong) and can fight on par with admiral. However, it's also important to mention that in order to gather strong crew, you yourself most likely have to be strong as well.
Also, considering your last paragraph, I disagree. There's nothing indicating that Luffy is strong enough to take on a yonkou or admiral much less zoro and sanji. In my personal opinion, I doubt they are anywhere near admiral levels yet.

Zehahaha
December 29, 2011, 05:05 PM
And since when Admirals are equal to Yonkou ? Heck, since when Yonkou are all equal ?
I don't get you guys, you always bring out that the argument " Ohh Yonkou are equal, or else another Yonkou will take her place ". You guys imply that Yonkou are interested into taking out each other while all the signs shows otherwise. WB was not interested, Shanks isn't, Kaidou isn't either or else he wouldn't have tried to stop WB from going to the war, I mean come on guys ! BB is a wild factor and for the sake of the plot wouldn't take on a Yonkou for now.

What's making it impossible for Luffy to defeat Big Mam ? Didn't he defeat Crocodile even if all the odds were against him ? Did you even forget that he was trained by Rayleigh for 2 years and reached a level that would have taken him years to reach ?

Also what kind of stronger pirates are we talking about here guys ? The likes of Squardo ? Because besides the Yonkou, I ain't seeing any strong pirates here.

I really can't see any of the Yonkou (except Kaidou since we haven't seen him) pushing the Marines to gather all their warriors + Shichibukai the same way they did for WB. Don't forget, it's not only because of him havin 1,6K men + allies, but because he had the strongest Paramecia ever shown and could've taken Marineford if it wasn't for Ace being there. Let's not forget that he was the rival of Roger, something that no Yonkou can brag about it.

Big Mam is strong, no doubt it, Oda won't make her weak that's for sure, but is she strong like WB or Shanks ? Hell no.
She will get her ass kicked by Luffy soon, unlike SH's vs Baroque Works, Luffy didn't declare war on Crocodile for the first time, and underestimated them, and also because of the lack of intel thanks to Sanji's misleading, they managed to reach Alabasta, if he knew what really happenned, I bet they wouldn't be able to reach Alabasta.

But here, Big Mam decided to attack Luffy instead of FI, and Luffy decided to defy her, no way she'll keep sending small fries one after another, she'll definitely move her ass for him.

nguqua
December 29, 2011, 07:14 PM
And since when Admirals are equal to Yonkou ? Heck, since when Yonkou are all equal ?
I don't get you guys, you always bring out that the argument " Ohh Yonkou are equal, or else another Yonkou will take her place ". You guys imply that Yonkou are interested into taking out each other while all the signs shows otherwise. WB was not interested, Shanks isn't, Kaidou isn't either or else he wouldn't have tried to stop WB from going to the war, I mean come on guys ! BB is a wild factor and for the sake of the plot wouldn't take on a Yonkou for now.



Maybe you meant someone else but as for me, I don't think I ever made any remark that suggests that admirals = yonkou, or that yonkou are equal in power. I fully agree that the world is not that simplistic and that means just because you have the yonkou title doesn't mean you are ounce for ounce equal in physical strength to the next yonkou, and that has never been a part of my argument. What I'm saying is that they are at the very least have to be in the same league. And when I say that, it doesn't refer to the kind of leagues like that of the shichibukai, where powers between each individual varies greatly due the the fact that they are appointed by a single authority, whereas the title of yonkou are decided through natural selections. This would mean that though no one yonkou is equal to the other, the power differences are very comparable and the differences are small.

I also never made any comment, and in fact have clearly explained in my second post that this argument has nothing to do with suggesting each yonkou competing with one another. Additionally, nothing suggests, beside for WB, that the yonkou do not have the intention of competing with one another. The purpose of Kaidou attempting to attack WB is still unclear at this point. Making any assumption is simply immature at this point I'm afraid. There are many mysteries in One Piece's world, as well as Oda's habit of unpredictable plot twists, makes confrontation with Big Mam herself after entering New World an open question mark. Nothing suggests that He will face her before other yonkou. For all we know, we might get an arc like Skypiea where a super strong opponent faces Luffy who himself is entirely unknown, or a powerful enemy from the past that never quite made it to the yonkou title. Remember that Luffy vs Shiki was supposed to be an arc in itself in the new world but got turned into a movie instead.

BlackHair
December 30, 2011, 10:23 AM
This is atm my favo thread, but due to time problems I couldn't post and cant properly until new year. Regardless nguqua (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/74371-Big-Mom-Pirates?p=2720620&viewfull=1#post2720620) covered most of my thoughts already. I will make it short, if I can find time I will post a more detailed post with quotes from the Manga.

We have to ask ourself "how" the equation was established in the first place. Thinking about that we will notice that every one must have fought each other at one point. Garp said that there are three pirate crews on the lvl of WB, to come up with that statement, the Yonkou must have fought each other.

But not only the Yonko, the MHQ must have fought each individual Yonko, only after that the WG must have realized that they need outside help to face the pirate age, which are the appointed 7Gods. After all the MHQ is facing every pirate on sea, not only those in the NW.

It doesn't matter if each have their own goal, they are pirates and marines on the sea, this is a shounen manga, obviously they must have fought each other. Not to mention in the manga there are many indications that they faced each on a battlefield.

As for Big Mom, I would be lying if I would say she seems strong. Also since pirate crews fights their battle as armies, you would expect her to be a mid-tier fighter, but with a enormous crew+alliance power. However she mentioned Garp! She is a pirate, he was a active marine and as long they didn't had a romance going on, the only logical relationship both could have had would be a fighting relationship. For that reason I believe she is indeed strong. Nonetheless, she seems to be a failed/disappointing character (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/74190-One-Piece-651-Discussion-652-Prediction-No-chapter-until-around-January-11th-%28read-the-OP%21%29?p=2723193&viewfull=1#post2723193).

Sakazuki
December 30, 2011, 10:29 AM
About yonkous been equals to admirals in strength:

I can’t an see a admiral in the same league of power. Against Whitebeard there were officially three of them and two in the same league (Garp and Sengoku, as was implicated), and just one was close enough to kill Whitebeard (Sakazuki, who took almost half of Whitebeard’s head) and still loosed to the old man. I really can’t see Borsalino or Sakazuki wining a fight against Shanks, Big Mom or Blackbeard.

Now, @ Zehahaha:

Where you can prove that Shanks, Kaidou, Big Mom or Blackbeard aren’t interested in their counterparts’ territory? Do you have any manga references?

You say that it’ll be just like Arabasta Arc, Luffy will win against the odds again. Remember that he just won in his third fight and if Crocodile have fought him more serious in their first fight, Luffy would have died 100% for sure. I don’t doubt he will won against Big Mom if she is truly a villain because he is the dam protagonist! There won’t be any other Mangellan in this series, the only antagonist that Luffy never managed to win.

This fight must be saved for Late. If it’ll happen in the next year, Luffy will an yonkou level guy. There won’t be much of objectives left for him that aren’t related to be Piarete King, and there won’t be much enemies that I’ll try fight him directly.

BlackHair
December 30, 2011, 10:56 AM
I can’t an admiral in the same league of power. Against Whitebeard there were officially three of them and two in the same league (Garp and Sengoku, as was implicated), and just one was close enough to kill Whitebeard (Sakazuki, who took almost half of Whitebeard’s head) and still loosed to the old man. I really can’t see Borsalino or Sakazuki wining a fight against Shanks, Big Mom or Blackbeard.Your reasoning is totally messed up. Why do you put Shanks Kaido and Big Mom equal to WB, but not the Admirals? Because they share the rank/title Yonko? I hope you realize that the Yonko fights their battle as a crew and that WB even called Yonko, was carrying the title strongest man.

Seriously I can't stand this narrow minded logic. Yonko Admiral whatever, both ranks are high tier. A Level in which everyone is close in power range. And to be absolute fair, it hasn't been even confirmed that Kaido and Big Mom are high tier fighter, not that Im questioning that.

As for the marineford-war if you reread the fights, you will notice most of it was plot circumstantial. Same case with Crocodile Luffy. It was PIS (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/64644-Croc-vs-Mihawk?p=2163155&viewfull=1#post2163155).

Sakazuki
December 30, 2011, 11:22 AM
I’m not saying that an Admiral is not strong. I’m saying that I think that yonkous are stronger than admirals. Five admirals like cant’ win a fight with Whitebeard. Sengoku couldn’t knocked out Blackbeard two years ago, when he was weaker than today I think. In terms of individual strength, I can say that a yonkou is stronguer than an admiral

And as you have said, yonkou is “a level in which everyone is close in power rang”. So I can say that Big Mom and Kaidou are beasts as Shanks and Whitebeard.

Final, by your theory of PIS and CIS (that I even thanked) we will see it again when Luffy and Big Mom fight, because I don’t see Luffy beating her right now.

BlackHair
December 30, 2011, 12:44 PM
So you agree that the fight with Luffy and Crocodile were circumstanced, but you are not seeing the fights with Sengoku vs BB and Admirals vs WB as circumstanced fights?

The reason BB survived Sengoku was for plot sakes. If BB died on that battlefield, we wouldn't have a antagonist right now. I only saw Sengoku hurting him, but not the other way around. BB on that battlefield was slightly above mid tier, at best. He couldn't have dreamed of killing any notable high tier.

As for Admirals vs WB, while WB was down on his knees facing Akainu, due to his age problems, normal fodder marines attacked him instead of Akainu giving him the death strike (http://www.mangareader.net/103-43538-8/one-piece/chapter-569.html). Did u never wonder why?

Im not looking down on WB, I still consider him up until his death as the strongest character. However, saying that the Yonko (which we haven't even seen fighting) equal to him, but the Admirals lower, makes absolutely no sense. Garp, Sengoku and Kizaru didn't even fight properly.

They were all close in power range, Admirals, WB and his top commanders Marco, Jozu and Vista. But with WB slightly above the rest and the Admirals slightly above the commanders. Also u still didn't answer me why you are putting the remaining Yonko (Big Mom, Kaido, Shanks) equally to WB.

Lastly that statement of urs saying 5 Admirals couldn't take out WB, I don't get it. My main problem with ur logic is simply that you are trying to read power lvl by rank, not by individuals.

---------- Post added at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------


And as you have said, yonkou is “a level in which everyone is close in power rang”. So I can say that Big Mom and Kaidou are beasts as Shanks and Whitebeard.
Sry u got that wrong. I meant to say that Admirals and Yonko and any other high tier are close in power range.

OdaForPresident
December 30, 2011, 02:55 PM
I'm thinking her power will be something like manipulating nature / trees / wood, maybe a wood logia. All based on her pirate flag obviously, otherwise I don't really know what the tree is for.

As for her power level, I'm voting weakest of the Yonkou. And als yes, I believe that she is Lola's mom

Zehahaha
December 30, 2011, 03:39 PM
Now, @ Zehahaha:

Where you can prove that Shanks, Kaidou, Big Mom or Blackbeard aren’t interested in their counterparts’ territory? Do you have any manga references?

You say that it’ll be just like Arabasta Arc, Luffy will win against the odds again. Remember that he just won in his third fight and if Crocodile have fought him more serious in their first fight, Luffy would have died 100% for sure. I don’t doubt he will won against Big Mom if she is truly a villain because he is the dam protagonist! There won’t be any other Mangellan in this series, the only antagonist that Luffy never managed to win.

This fight must be saved for Late. If it’ll happen in the next year, Luffy will an yonkou level guy. There won’t be much of objectives left for him that aren’t related to be Piarete King, and there won’t be much enemies that I’ll try fight him directly.

So you need to wait for Oda to tell you " Oh these guys aren't interested in territories " to confirm it ? Don't expect Oda to answer every single question of yours bro.

That's called deduction, based on facts & the characters personality. In the manga, it was mentioned WB objectif is a family, Shanks was said to mind his own business by the Gorosei, Kaidou if he had any intention of killing WB at the time would've waited till the war where WB was weakened to take his head, heck, if he wanted his territories, he would've just taken the islands while WB was at the war. But he wanted to stop WB from going to the war, why ? The only logical explanation is that he wanted to keep the status quo as it is.

It would be lame if this fight is saved for later, especially since Luffy pissed off Big Mam, it wouldn't make sense at all. Why would she wait for him to come while he decided to defy her ?

It's like I'm saying " I'll kill you " and you wait for me to come to get your head, it doesn't make sense. In 2012, Big Mam will be defeated. And I can't see Luffy defeated by any of Big Mam allies if their level is close to the likes of WB's allies. For the sake of the consistency of the manga, if Luffy is just as strong as the likes of Squardo after being trained by frickin Rayleigh, he better go back to Paradise.

Sachsenhesse
December 30, 2011, 05:00 PM
easy proof for that fact that yonkous are not equal in power...

shanks did confront kaidou to help whitebeard and his crew came nearly unshattered to marineford, only some hours after wb himself ^^

BlackHair
December 30, 2011, 06:19 PM
easy proof for that fact that yonkous are not equal in power...

shanks did confront kaidou to help whitebeard and his crew came nearly unshattered to marineford, only some hours after wb himself ^^Well that was offpanel, hence no proof at all. I honestly believe they had a intensive argument (talk). Just like WB and Shanks had in chapter 434. A fight doesn't make much sense, since Shanks appeared as u pointed out, on the battlefield without any sign of damageline.

The Yonko have to be equal in power. If one Yonko would be dominating, the known system, the equilibrium wouldn't even exist. Only in power equal organisations can hold their own, otherwise they would be annihilated by a opposing force, and territories would be taken over. Thats how our world map was defined over the course thousands of years of human history. The same rule should apply in Odas One Piece. Thats at least how I interpreted Garps words (http://www.mangareader.net/103-2539-7/one-piece/chapter-432.html) back in chapter 432.

Any other explanation makes no logical sense to me. But Im always interested in new ones.

---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------


So you need to wait for Oda to tell you " Oh these guys aren't interested in territories " to confirm it ? I believe Shanks is not interested in other territories, except if they are ruled by tyrant. Since Im seeing him as Luffy, a easy going guy who cant overlook ppl in need.

I see Big Mom being interested. I mean she is a fat bastard with hunger for sweets. So any new island which could serve as a sweet factory would be ideal territory for her.

As for Kaido, that guy is still a mystery. It seemed, as u pointed out, he wanted to preserve status quo. So somehow Im picturing him as a similar version of Shanks, maybe a bit darker though.

Lastly about BB, honestly I see him easily wanting to rule over the whole world, just like Akainu wanting his justice spread everywhere.

Anyway, I have to agree with those saying we need more information by Oda. At this point it can be interpreted either way. But regardless, everyone seems to have territory and armies, which they are leading. That much is already confirmed by the manga.

nguqua
December 31, 2011, 02:24 AM
That's called deduction, based on facts & the characters personality. In the manga, it was mentioned WB objectif is a family, Shanks was said to mind his own business by the Gorosei, Kaidou if he had any intention of killing WB at the time would've waited till the war where WB was weakened to take his head, heck, if he wanted his territories, he would've just taken the islands while WB was at the war. But he wanted to stop WB from going to the war, why ? The only logical explanation is that he wanted to keep the status quo as it is.

It would be lame if this fight is saved for later, especially since Luffy pissed off Big Mam, it wouldn't make sense at all. Why would she wait for him to come while he decided to defy her ?

It's like I'm saying " I'll kill you " and you wait for me to come to get your head, it doesn't make sense. In 2012, Big Mam will be defeated. And I can't see Luffy defeated by any of Big Mam allies if their level is close to the likes of WB's allies. For the sake of the consistency of the manga, if Luffy is just as strong as the likes of Squardo after being trained by frickin Rayleigh, he better go back to Paradise.
It's not the first time Oda built something up to mislead the reader. with all due respect, a verbal challenge or any conversation that hint toward a confrontation is no solid clue for you to be so certain about, my friend. Ace said that if Luffy wants to be pirate king, luffy has to face him. That hints toward a future battle between the brothers. Yet, Ace died. Mihawk clashed with Zoro way back then and said he'll wait for Zoro in the Grand Line. Does that kill the climax for us that not only Zoro has yet to have his ultimate fight with Mihawk since he entered Grand Line (could have been off panel), he became Mihawk's disciple? This is what I love about One Piece - its unpredictability. Given the fact that Big Mom has only a couple of pages last chapter, I don't think it's wise to make any solid assumption.

Concerning Kaidou, I really agree with you that Kaidou probably didn't try to intercept WB to take WB out. WB was mobolizing all of his forces to face the Marines. WB was in his strongest. There's no reason for Kaidou to choose that timing window to attack WB if his intention was to take WB out. As you said, he would have waited after the war, where WB would be in his weakest if he was still alive. However, I doubt that Kaidou intercepts WB because he wanted to maintain power balance. If this is the case, using force would be his last option as fighting between 2 yonkou would in itself threaten the balance. This begs the question - why did Shank intercept Kaidou? Did Shank support WB in his quest to fight Marines and save Ace? This complicates the true nature of Shank as he has been seen as a man of piece, who wishes no unnecessary bloodshed.

hokageji
December 31, 2011, 04:03 AM
I think she is a Bee type Zoan..

She would be the Queen bee in this case, with her underlings acting like workers getting her candy all the time...

Bee would have flight, honey and poison ability, could be deadly..

Zehahaha
December 31, 2011, 07:01 AM
It's not the first time Oda built something up to mislead the reader. with all due respect, a verbal challenge or any conversation that hint toward a confrontation is no solid clue for you to be so certain about, my friend. Ace said that if Luffy wants to be pirate king, luffy has to face him. That hints toward a future battle between the brothers. Yet, Ace died. Mihawk clashed with Zoro way back then and said he'll wait for Zoro in the Grand Line. Does that kill the climax for us that not only Zoro has yet to have his ultimate fight with Mihawk since he entered Grand Line (could have been off panel), he became Mihawk's disciple? This is what I love about One Piece - its unpredictability. Given the fact that Big Mom has only a couple of pages last chapter, I don't think it's wise to make any solid assumption.

Are you serious about this ? Comparing Mihawk & Zoro, Luffy & Ace, to what happenned between Big Mam & Luffy is wrong. It is completely different : In those two situations, it was a challenge yes, but Luffy and Zoro didn't do anything to piss off Ace & Mihawk the same way Luffy did right now. They said they're waiting for them to grow up, to become strong that's it.

But in Big Mam's case, the guy just said to her " I'll kick your ass and make FI my turf ", completely different situation. The chick was pissed because she didn't eat her candies, you think she wouldn't be more pissed off when someone say i'll kick your but and take your island ? Oh come on... Even I admit that OP is unpredictable, but to the point of comparing Zoro & Mihawk to this... Absolutely different situations.

BlackHair
December 31, 2011, 11:25 AM
Concerning Kaidou, I really agree with you that Kaidou probably didn't try to intercept WB to take WB out. WB was mobolizing all of his forces to face the Marines. WB was in his strongest. There's no reason for Kaidou to choose that timing window to attack WB if his intention was to take WB out. As you said, he would have waited after the war, where WB would be in his weakest if he was still alive. However, I doubt that Kaidou intercepts WB because he wanted to maintain power balance. If this is the case, using force would be his last option as fighting between 2 yonkou would in itself threaten the balance. This begs the question - why did Shank intercept Kaidou? Did Shank support WB in his quest to fight Marines and save Ace? This complicates the true nature of Shank as he has been seen as a man of piece, who wishes no unnecessary bloodshed.
About that, except Momongas words there is no real indication that Kaido wanted to stop WB with force, nor that he fought Shanks. I mean Shanks appeared on the battlefield just hours after, without any sign of damageline. So I believe as I said before (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/74371-Big-Mom-Pirates?p=2724741&viewfull=1#post2724741), they just had a argument, like in chapter 434.

I believe he wanted to prevent WB from attacking the WG, since he expected him to lose. Maybe Kaido despite being a Yonko on his own, feels indebted to WB or he simply wanted avoid a power struggle in the NW, in case WB died. Either way, he wanted WB to forsake Ace. While Shanks properly wanted Ace to be saved, considering he is his former captains son (in case he knew) and since his relationship with Luffy.

But since they are mighty pirate captains on their won, they couldn't lend WB a hand on the battlefield, otherwise the mighty and prideful WB would have lost his face.

Anyway, I expect Kaido to be a "good" guy, at most a darker version of Shanks.

Sakazuki
December 31, 2011, 05:18 PM
I think that nobody can say right now if the yonkous are equal in terms of strength. There is no way to prove by sbs information or manga if they’re equals or not. For it’s very inconclusive, because we have saw just one yonkou in a real fight (I’m excluding Blakbeard because he wasn’t an yonkou by that time). If we even don’t know if they are equals, I’ll stop to compare the strength of the yonkous and the admirals.
As they’re two of the most important groups in One Piece world, I really expect to see more information to answer this doubt of mine. I personally thank BlackHair for his posts, that makes sense, but I need more proves to end this matter.

@Zehaha:

Logic is not the only thing in a story. If logic would be the ony thing, then we couldn’t be surprised by nothing hat is not new in the plot, and in OP the old things that Oda explain better or gives a deeper meaning to the plot are the ones which amazes us more.
You should stop be so annoying and choose better your words, having more respect towards the others members, “bro”.

Zehahaha
December 31, 2011, 05:31 PM
I think that nobody can say right now if the yonkous are equal in terms of strength. There is no way to prove by sbs information or manga if they’re equals or not. For it’s very inconclusive, because we have saw just one yonkou in a real fight (I’m excluding Blakbeard because he wasn’t an yonkou by that time). If we even don’t know if they are equals, I’ll stop to compare the strength of the yonkous and the admirals.
As they’re two of the most important groups in One Piece world, I really expect to see more information to answer this doubt of mine. I personally thank BlackHair for his posts, that makes sense, but I need more proves to end this matter.

@Zehaha:

Logic is not the only thing in a story. If logic would be the ony thing, then we couldn’t be surprised by nothing hat is not new in the plot, and in OP the old things that Oda explain better or gives a deeper meaning to the plot are the ones which amazes us more.
You should stop be so annoying and choose better your words, having more respect towards the others members, “bro”.

If logic isn't the only thing, then you'll just see that bandit of mountains who was showed in the first chapters become PK... You may find OP not logical if you're using " real world logic ", but try using" OP's logic ", anyone reading OP over and over can grasp how Oda's work, and can predict things.

What I'm trying to prove is that the argument that the Yonkou are equal is wrong " with the informations " we have so far. I'm not saying that they didn't fought years ago to gain their territories, but I'm talking about right now, and taking into account facts, and characters personality. You guys keeps saying that they're equal, something that not even Garp said when talking about them. And Sengoku's words after the war put an emphasis about WB being at " the top " of the pirates, and carrying the title of " the strongest man in the world " and " rival of Roger ", something that no other Yonkou can claim.

For the sake of the plot, Yonkou's (the captains, idgaf about their crew) aren't equal. It wouldn't make any sense for Luffy to defeat someone at Shanks/WB level, and it wouldn't make sense also for Big Mam to be fooling around and wait for Luffy to calmly come at this point.

And let me say this, this how I talk, I'm not doing it for the purpose of being disrespectful, no. I do respect anyone here, I'm sorry if I offended you, but expect me to hear more " bro " or whatever I say.

The Red Dog
January 01, 2012, 02:24 AM
About that, except Momongas words there is no real indication that Kaido wanted to stop WB with force, nor that he fought Shanks. I mean Shanks appeared on the battlefield just hours after, without any sign of damageline. So I believe as I said before (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/74371-Big-Mom-Pirates?p=2724741&viewfull=1#post2724741), they just had a argument, like in chapter 434.

I believe he wanted to prevent WB from attacking the WG, since he expected him to lose. Maybe Kaido despite being a Yonko on his own, feels indebted to WB or he simply wanted avoid a power struggle in the NW, in case WB died. Either way, he wanted WB to forsake Ace. While Shanks properly wanted Ace to be saved, considering he is his former captains son (in case he knew) and since his relationship with Luffy.

But since they are mighty pirate captains on their won, they couldn't lend WB a hand on the battlefield, otherwise the mighty and prideful WB would have lost his face.

Anyway, I expect Kaido to be a "good" guy, at most a darker version of Shanks.

I'm a bit surprised by your theory about Kaido...I'd rather think that he wanted to seize the opportunity to take out the Wounded WB,he seems to be an opportunist guy,just like BB

nguqua
January 01, 2012, 03:33 AM
Are you serious about this ? Comparing Mihawk & Zoro, Luffy & Ace, to what happenned between Big Mam & Luffy is wrong. It is completely different : In those two situations, it was a challenge yes, but Luffy and Zoro didn't do anything to piss off Ace & Mihawk the same way Luffy did right now. They said they're waiting for them to grow up, to become strong that's it.

But in Big Mam's case, the guy just said to her " I'll kick your ass and make FI my turf ", completely different situation. The chick was pissed because she didn't eat her candies, you think she wouldn't be more pissed off when someone say i'll kick your but and take your island ? Oh come on... Even I admit that OP is unpredictable, but to the point of comparing Zoro & Mihawk to this... Absolutely different situations.
To me, I don't think Big Mom is pissed. I think when she heard they won't deliver the candies, she were, but after the exchange with Luffy, I think she became amused by him. If she was in such a rage, she would be determined to destroy FI and Luffy. I think the fact that she said that she'll transfer all her punishment from FI to Luffy shows some sign of bemusement.

I think the fact that it was left ambiguous what exactly did she eat (human or candy-like sentinents?) was to paint her as an evil person to mislead readers. This isn't the first time that Oda did this. He painted Franky as an evil jerk, and after Ussopp was robbed and beaten, the climax was pointing toward Luffy ultimately kicking this guy's ass. However, it was later and gradually revealed that he was a nice guy with a very sentimental back story. Same case was for "demon" Zoro when he was first introduced.

Zehahaha
January 01, 2012, 07:15 AM
Are you suggesting that candies are excited to eat another candies and can TALK ? :facepalm

This page (http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/651/9) is clear, and if you guys likes to read too much and elaborate suppositions out of nowhere, I'll just stop answering this matter and let you do that.

About Big Mam, for someone who keeps reading into details, you sure missed an important one (http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/651/17), you see that " Twitch " (which means twitching eyebrows or eyelids in genreal), it usually used to indicate the anger of a character in most of mangas. And it have been used in One Piece a lot of times to show anger.

BlackHair
January 01, 2012, 01:14 PM
I'm a bit surprised by your theory about Kaido...I'd rather think that he wanted to seize the opportunity to take out the Wounded WB,he seems to be an opportunist guy,just like BBThat doesn't make any sense. I mean WB gathered his allaince crwe to attack MHQ. He was in that moment his strongest. Why would Kaido seriously attack WB in that moment? If he is a opportunist as u claim, then he would wait on the side lines at marineford to intervene at the very last moment, just as coward BB did.

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------


For the sake of the plot, Yonkou's (the captains, idgaf about their crew) aren't equal. It wouldn't make any sense for Luffy to defeat someone at Shanks/WB level, and it wouldn't make sense also for Big Mam to be fooling around and wait for Luffy to calmly come at this point. That is very much true. I easily see her as Moria, a pirate who is fallen in power. Became fat and lazy. Means she is defending her title as Yonko mainly with her crew. But herself, she might be at best VA lvl (below high tier, but as best mid tier lvl.

---------- Post added at 07:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 PM ----------


As they’re two of the most important groups in One Piece world, I really expect to see more information to answer this doubt of mine. I personally thank BlackHair for his posts, that makes sense, but I need more proves to end this matter.I appreciate that. I too had fun exchanging opinions and I perfectly understand ur concerns.

knivez
January 02, 2012, 06:23 AM
I will give you that Big Mam's entrance wasn't as spectacular as old man Whitebeard. But she is still a Yonkou. A title not given by the navy or other offical instance but by the people of the world and respected by her peers.

If she was weak she would have lost that tittle long ago. There are many pirates around that would challenge her or any other yonkou for that matter in a chance to get closer to One Piece. If she showed any sign of weakness or neglect I have no doubt that there are dozens of people ready to take her place.

Take blackbeard for instance. It is said that he is looking for powerfull fruit powers. Let's assume Big Mom has a powerfull devil fruit ( acid is presumed at the moment ) and she is weak, then why wont blackbeard go and take it?

I think there is a good chance that this will happen. In 2-3 arcs luffy will have fought his way into the new world. Possibly defeating some of big mom's crew and she is comming after him. Badly hurt and tired from the battles the crew would stand no chance if she would show up now. But in the end she doesnt show and it seems Blackbeard attacked her and took her fruit.

That would leave that route without a yonkou to be carefull for and it could become a pottential battleground for the supernova. Would be kind of cool. Supernova fighting amongst each other for the title of next yonkou.

Razh
January 02, 2012, 07:48 AM
If she was weak she would have lost that tittle long ago. There are many pirates around that would challenge her or any other yonkou for that matter in a chance to get closer to One Piece. If she showed any sign of weakness or neglect I have no doubt that there are dozens of people ready to take her place.

I think a lot of you are misundarsanding what some of us think. Nobody is saying that she was always weak. Geez, BlackHair mentions Moria, who used to be stronger in battle, but got lazy and fat. As a pirate from previous generation, assuming she's not at the peak of her might is the most natural thing. Yes, we can assume she's from previous generation, since she mentioned Garp. It's Oda's way of telling us that she is old. Furthermore, Oda continues to emphasize it mentioning that other pirates aren't afraid of destroying her ships. It's simple.

I do think she's tougher than most vice admirals. Then again, I don't have such a high opinion on them.

Ratatosk
January 02, 2012, 02:23 PM
Yeah, concentrating that much on candy when Blackbeard is on the takeover means she's losing touch with reality, if nothing else.

This from the anime is the first actual evidence for the theories that she could be Lola's mother... assuming they still check things like this with Oda first:
http://i.imgur.com/7jxW5.jpg
But then even though One Piece isn't exactly overunning with pink-haired people, there are a few who are completely unrelated, so could be wrong.

How the hell Luffy can protect Fishman Island successfully from far away if he wins, instead of just making it an even greater target for every arrogant rookie who passes through, is what bothers me. The obvious thing is for the Sea Kings to protect it, while still hiding the Princess' ability.. which is just as unlikely.

Uriel
January 02, 2012, 05:01 PM
Being the fact that that thing doesn't come off from her head directly it could very well be a candy floss.

nguqua
January 02, 2012, 05:02 PM
Are you suggesting that candies are excited to eat another candies and can TALK ? :facepalm
After seeing all the craziness in One Piece's universe, I wouldn't scratch that possibility. And I request you to not use the facepalm and talk with a little more respect, just as I have been showing to you. Thank you.


This page (http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/651/9) is clear, and if you guys likes to read too much and elaborate suppositions out of nowhere, I'll just stop answering this matter and let you do that.
I don't think you get the point - the point I was trying to make is that it's too early to make any definite assumption about the future. There are just too many variables and possible alternate outcomes. Logical deduction derived from a strong body of solid evidence. Your so-called evidence are "interpreted evidence." They are simply neutral details that are interpreted in a way that would support your theory. Solid evidence are ones that clearly black and white that leaves nothing to the imagination. We don't have that right now.

About Big Mam, for someone who keeps reading into details, you sure missed an important one (http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/651/17), you see that " Twitch " (which means twitching eyebrows or eyelids in genreal), it usually used to indicate the anger of a character in most of mangas. And it have been used in One Piece a lot of times to show anger.
Or a sign of renewed interest, surprise. You can see in that same panel, she is smiling, and in the same page, she even explicitly say that she has taken an interest in Luffy.

garabilagan
January 03, 2012, 02:30 AM
i think BM ate the stomach stomach fruit

tret16
January 03, 2012, 03:07 AM
Care to clarify what type of ability that would give her?

elitefox
January 03, 2012, 04:48 AM
I want her to have a funny Devil Fruit, like lucci said a useless DF, but she took advantage of it ^_^

Black Lagoon
January 03, 2012, 06:16 AM
She might have something similar to Wapol and Magellan at the same time ... Wapol's eating capacity and Magellan's poison inform of acid. :p I repeat Similar not the exact properties. :3c

Zehahaha
January 03, 2012, 07:10 AM
Have we even seen food talk in OP ? Stop using this " This is Oda we talkin' about " argument to back up impossible things that would never happen.

Saying that the " FACT " that BM ate one of her subordinates isn't one, and saying it may be " Talking candy " (wat ?) is just too far fetched. Stay a bit logical here please.

And I'm sorry, that twitching isn't a sign of renewed interest nor surprise. Isn't she " smiling (http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/651/11)" here while being pissed off ? I try to give argument here, backing it up with clear manga evidence, and yet you all deny it saying " dunno, wait for oda to tell me ".

Yeah right, keep waiting for Oda to give you every single detail here.

I'm done with this discussion.

kkck
January 03, 2012, 03:18 PM
Well, a stomach fruit would make sense but the point here would be what exactly her enhanced digestive capacity would entail. Endless hunger would be a given in this scenario but there must necessarily be more to it. Maybe she can take advantage of the properties of what she eats? Say she eats metal and gets metal like properties. It would be interesting if she has the ability to absorb 100% of the nutrients food has and use them, that would even explain insane strength.

Uriel
January 03, 2012, 03:28 PM
You know, I just hope her ability doesn't relate with her eating. Seriously. It's a lame excuse and the more I read about it the more I dislike it.
And it will be more cool if it's just hunger that comes from her.

PS: LOL, I just imagined Luffy being chew by Big Mom. He's a gum after all xD

nguqua
January 03, 2012, 07:04 PM
Have we even seen food talk in OP ? Stop using this " This is Oda we talkin' about " argument to back up impossible things that would never happen.

Saying that the " FACT " that BM ate one of her subordinates isn't one, and saying it may be " Talking candy " (wat ?) is just too far fetched. Stay a bit logical here please.

And I'm sorry, that twitching isn't a sign of renewed interest nor surprise. Isn't she " smiling (http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/651/11)" here while being pissed off ? I try to give argument here, backing it up with clear manga evidence, and yet you all deny it saying " dunno, wait for oda to tell me ".

Yeah right, keep waiting for Oda to give you every single detail here.

I'm done with this discussion.

If you are done with the discussion, you wouldn't bother to respond to have the last word. If you give yourself the liberty to respond to my post, then surely you have the decency to hear my response to that response.

With that being said, "talking candy" isn't so far fetched if you look at creatures like den den mushi. They are snails with the ability to mimick a person's look and voice and communicate over long distance like a telephone. But as I said, that's beside the point. It would be extremely rediculous if I claim that these possibilities are bound to happen within the future. Am I even saying that they are likely to happen? Not at all. Are they farfetched as you said? Yes, I agree. Though nothing stops them from happening. And that leads me to the fundamental point I've been making several times already - there are too many variables that can lead to so many alternate plot development. To be sure of any of these plots as you have been with your theory is simply imprudent.

And please do not confuse your current theory about Big" Mom being the lesser one within the yonkou rank and will be the next enemy bound to be taken out by Luffy" (which have no solid evidence whatsoever and a whole lot of interpreted ones) with your current argument against my suggestions that she has taken an interest in Luffy, which you do show clear evidence for - another picture of her face seemingly having the same grin and anger shown through the veins next to her eye. And I care less if you prove my suggested theory wrong (though nothing changes the fact that she did say she is interested in Luffy) because that's not my point.

I'm not discrediting your prediction. What I'm discrediting, again and again, is your certainty in your prediction. We don't have to wait on Oda to tell every little detail. That's why we are free to make any predictions as possibilities of what may happen based on what we currently have (you made yours, and I respect that), but to claim it to be the only way how things will turn out is amusingly illogical.

kkck
January 03, 2012, 11:40 PM
You know, I just hope her ability doesn't relate with her eating. Seriously. It's a lame excuse and the more I read about it the more I dislike it.
And it will be more cool if it's just hunger that comes from her.

PS: LOL, I just imagined Luffy being chew by Big Mom. He's a gum after all xD

I really doubt her ability won't be eating related. What else would actually give her acid saliva? Unless of course acid saliva is merely a small part of what her ability as a whole represents. If she was an acid paramecia it would make sense she had acid saliva along with other acid related abilities and body fluids. Still, the appetite makes more sense with an eating related ability.

Zehahaha
January 04, 2012, 08:34 AM
And please do not confuse your current theory about Big" Mom being the lesser one within the yonkou rank and will be the next enemy bound to be taken out by Luffy" (which have no solid evidence whatsoever and a whole lot of interpreted ones)

Tell me, would it be logical for Luffy to beat someone who is in the level of the top dogs right now at this moment, just as soon that the second part of OP began ? Would it have been logical for instance, if Crocodile is strong as Mihawk, and be defeated in the first part of the GL Saga ? Would be there any evolution for the character, both in strenght and character ? If Luffy has already become top tier, just how can you imagine the story will evolve ? Just how ?

Would it have been logical for Ichigo in Bleach to defeat someone in the beginning who is a Captain ? Would it have been logical for Naruto to defeat someone who is as strong as a Kage in the very beginning ?

It is IMPOSSIBLE and UNTHINKABLE that BM is as strong individually like the top dogs. It wouldn't make no sense at all. Just like someone said that Zoro is stronger than Mihawk already, I mean wtf ? If Oda didn't rush so soon and made Luffy face BM, I wouldn't doubt BM strenght. Then again I understand him, Luffy have been trained by Rayleigh for 2 whole years, he became strong to a level where it would take him years normally to reach, if Oda made Luffy fight any shitty pirate there, it wouldn't be spectacular, and then again, if Luffy defeats someone who is a top dog (Top dogs for me : Shanks, and the Admirals so far, BB is a wild card for now, Kaidou no data on him), what would be the point ? Will there be any continuity, any progress for Luffy and his crew ? No.

For the sake of the consistency of the plot, BM is weaker than top dogs, and will be defeated in 2012 as there's no point in dragging this matter for a lot of time.

And I believe that this is the way things will turn out because this is Oda, he isn't Kubo who pulls random power ups from his ass (Ichigo being ten time weaker than Ulquiorra but he defeated him thanks to his hollow) or Mashima (Fairy Tail) (rawr my friends are my powaaah). If you'd like to see Luffy somehow have a power up from nowhere and beat Shanks, Akainu, Aokiji, then I'm sorry to inform you, but Oda wouldn't pull such a ridiculous crap on us.

I'll say it clearly and for once : For me, BM is weaker than most of the top dogs, but then again Luffy will definitely have a hard time against her.
It is the same against Crocodile, nearly the same pattern will repeat itself.

About the talking candy... Just how a candy would call a candy eater " Mama " and also be enjoyed that he will eat " Candies from FI " ? Does it make sense to you ? I'm sure as hell that it doesn't.

Uriel
January 04, 2012, 08:47 AM
I really doubt her ability won't be eating related. What else would actually give her acid saliva? Unless of course acid saliva is merely a small part of what her ability as a whole represents. If she was an acid paramecia it would make sense she had acid saliva along with other acid related abilities and body fluids. Still, the appetite makes more sense with an eating related ability.
Of course it makes sense, but that is boring for me. And I tend to wake up with acid on my mouth and it's usually due having my throat dry. For someone of her size eating as She eats, it's not strange to say something like that.
I like to think that it's something related to her but not the DF itself.

It is IMPOSSIBLE and UNTHINKABLE that BM is as strong individually like the top dogs. It wouldn't make no sense at all.
For the sake of the consistency of the plot, BM is weaker than top dogs, and will be defeated in 2012 as there's no point in dragging this matter for a lot of time.
You're forgetting that Luffy won most of his battles by mere luck and situations.
Case: Marineford.
Until we don't see her power the words you're using there are just pretentious.

Zehahaha
January 04, 2012, 08:53 AM
You're forgetting that Luffy won most of his battles by mere luck and situations.
Case: Marineford.
Until we don't see her power the words you're using there are just pretentious.

Marineford ? He didn't do anything there, 90% of the time he was trashed.
That battle showed us more the gap between Luffy and top dogs.

And luck is an ability one may say, even BB is lucky too.
People say that it was luck that enabled Luffy to defeat Crocodile, it may be true to a certain extent, but in the end, he won. If there's a rematch between old Luffy, and Crocodile, he'd defeat him anytime since he knows the trick. In the first, it is until he got stabbed that he realized that, in the second fight, Luffy was mostly fooling around (Mizu Luffy), it is until the third fight that we saw a real fight that Luffy won fair and square. But imagine with me if Crocodile was at the level of an Admiral, and Luffy defeated that early, just how the rest of his adventure would have went ? Would he have problems in EL, against Moria, against Kuma, in Marineford too ? No at all. Fights would be boring, everything will become boring as there will be no challenges or whatsoever.

Uriel
January 04, 2012, 09:05 AM
But you wouldn't say Crocodile was in the same level of Luffy or that admirals were one more weak than the others, right? Because you just can't measure that of that situation. OP is usually the best one when it comes to screw up power levels. That's why I think that when you say that it's impossible for BM to be in the same league of the other Yonkous it's pretentious as hell because you don't know the circumstances, her ability and how Luffy will confront her.

Sakazuki
January 04, 2012, 09:26 AM
@Zehaha:

Ok, if 2012 end and Big Mom won't be defeated, you lose your point. We don't know almost anything about her, if she is a "top dog", weaker than Luffy, etc. When Luffy fought against Lucci, Crocodile, Enel and Moria we had to wait for two years to see Luffy won each one of them. I don’t see it coming in 2012.

---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------

I have already edited my post, thank you.

nguqua
January 04, 2012, 03:43 PM
Tell me, would it be logical for Luffy to beat someone who is in the level of the top dogs right now at this moment, just as soon that the second part of OP began ? Would it have been logical for instance, if Crocodile is strong as Mihawk, and be defeated in the first part of the GL Saga ? Would be there any evolution for the character, both in strenght and character ? If Luffy has already become top tier, just how can you imagine the story will evolve ? Just how ?


Did you read my post concerning this? Please explain to me how you know beyond certainty that Luffy will face Big Mom before meeting any other enemies, or that there's no way she won't turn out to be Luffy's friend. As Uriel has said, circumstances played a big role. If it wasn't, Luffy would have been fried by Enel no contest.

Zehahaha
January 04, 2012, 04:20 PM
Did you read my post concerning this? Please explain to me how you know beyond certainty that Luffy will face Big Mom before meeting any other enemies, or that there's no way she won't turn out to be Luffy's friend. As Uriel has said, circumstances played a big role. If it wasn't, Luffy would have been fried by Enel no contest.

Fried by Enel ? The guy was Enel's weakness, how can he be fried by him ?
Ok then, suppose for a second that he will not face BM and will turn to be buddies (then why did Oda bother to make Luffy declare war on her, but nvm that), who would he face ? Pirates like Squardo ? No way, obviously too weak for Luffy, Kaidou ? How is that gonna happen since he wasn't even introduced yet ? BB, nope too early, Shanks ? They wouldn't fight and it is too early if Oda ever intend to make them fight, Akainu... Kizaru ? Too early to face an admiral for sure.

Then give me a single character that would give Luffy trouble, but more than that, to make the balance shift again, we all know what Crocodile's defeat has caused. So who do you think would fill that part hmm ? I don't see anyone here besides BM for now.

Again, what kind of enemies will Luffy face ? Allied crews ? You think that a shitty pirate from NW can stand to Luffy atm ? We have all seen how " remarkable " they were in the war isn't it ? It even took 3 captains from the NW to take down a single Pacifista. You think that BM's allies will be stronger than WB's allies ? I doubt that...


But you wouldn't say Crocodile was in the same level of Luffy or that admirals were one more weak than the others, right? Because you just can't measure that of that situation. OP is usually the best one when it comes to screw up power levels. That's why I think that when you say that it's impossible for BM to be in the same league of the other Yonkous it's pretentious as hell because you don't know the circumstances, her ability and how Luffy will confront her.

The war.

Before the war, we have never seen top dogs fighting, we didn't have a single idea about that. Some people (even me at some point) believed that Admirals are only strong thanks to their Logia and anyone with Haki can kick their sorry asses. The war proved us wrong. Let's check what happenned : Aokiji & Kizaru & Akainu unscathed (I'm sorry, even after taking that hit from WB, Akainu was still okay and was pursuing Luffy and dealt with the WB pirates), Garp & Sengoku unscathed (considering those fives as the top dogs of the marines), let's take a look at the WB pirates : WB dead, Ace dead, Marco got his ass kicked, Jozu frozen, Curiel defeated by Akainu. It was painfully obvious to us the complete supremacy of the admirals, and were truly fit to be called " The greatest military power " of the WG. WB was sick, that's correct, but still, not managing to overcome Aokiji's haki when he tried to stab him, not managing to land a hit on Kizaru and Aokiji, and only hitting for once Akainu and not even being able to definitely knock him out.

We got a solid evidence about the power of the top dogs at the war, therefore we can absolutely say that Crocodile is weaker than Admirals and some Shichibukai, and thank god it was the case, or else Luffy wouldn't have gotten trashed that badly in the war. If Croco was as strong as an Admiral, and then Luffy in the war getting trashed, would it make sense ?

The war has showed us what top dogs are worth, and even Luffy with his current strenght still isn't there yet. Before we didn't have that occasion to measure that, but with the war as a reference, it is possible.

Uriel
January 04, 2012, 06:59 PM
The war has showed us what top dogs are worth, and even Luffy with his current strenght still isn't there yet. Before we didn't have that occasion to measure that, but with the war as a reference, it is possible.
The war gave us a context, only that. It would be a different matter if Shanks would have fight. If the admirals would have been really unscratched and the marines winning at major advantage then why not confront him as well? To the point: Strength and levels in One Piece can only lead you so far. Most of the times, circumstances determines the winner. Devil Fruits and how they react to each other determines the winner. Even mental state determine the winners.

Big Mom could be in her 20% when fighting with a Luffy in his 100% and that could be enough for our favorite pirate to win the battle. And that doesn't make BM any less strong than the other Yonkous.

nguqua
January 04, 2012, 11:33 PM
Fried by Enel ? The guy was Enel's weakness, how can he be fried by him ?
Uh... that's kinda my point, isn't it? I apologize but it seems to me that you simply don't get it. The fact that the nature of Luffy's rubber power being the nemesis of Enel's devil fruit power is in itself a variable. One Piece's story so far hasn't been simple math of power levels. The fact that Enel's electricity being completely useless against Luffy debunks any theory based solely on linear perspective of "power level."


Ok then, suppose for a second that he will not face BM and will turn to be buddies (then why did Oda bother to make Luffy declare war on her, but nvm that), who would he face ? Pirates like Squardo ? No way, obviously too weak for Luffy, Kaidou ? How is that gonna happen since he wasn't even introduced yet ? BB, nope too early, Shanks ? They wouldn't fight and it is too early if Oda ever intend to make them fight, Akainu... Kizaru ? Too early to face an admiral for sure.

What makes you think that we have seen/heard about all the powerhouses in the New World? You may have missed this so I'll say it again - remember Shiki supposedly being an enemy in the New World but got turned into a movie instead?

Zehahaha
January 05, 2012, 03:08 PM
I'll formulate what I'm saying here just to avoid more confusions : For me, BM is strong, but not as strong as top dogs. It won't be easy for Luffy to beat her, he'll have a lot of troubles, I don't expect a Crocodile scenario here, but more a Lucci scenario in this case.

Why do I say that BM is weaker (not in the sense that Shanks would pwn her) ? To give Luffy a room to improve. If he's already as strong as top dogs, I fail too see how he'll improve, how the fights will be entertaining, how the whole crew will actually improve.

Why do I think that BM will fight against Luffy ? Luffy has been trained by Rayleigh, he's certainly a powerhouse, and Luffy's power increased a lot thanks to Rayleigh teachings, Oda here has 2 choices : Either make him fight normal crews in the NW, and fights will be shorts and just like Hodi vs Luffy completely one sided, either Oda will put him into a predicament a make him face one the powerhouses in the NW to give some interesting fights and a real sight for Luffy's strenght, to make again Luffy the variable that will change the balance (the same things happened with Crocodile's defeat which caused a series of events that lead us to the war which was the final chapter of the first part of OP).

Again, Oda will obviously go for the second choice, especially after the last (declaring a war, and then becoming buddies right after would make 0 sense), and for the sake of plot, and for keeping the story consistent, BM won't be as strong as top tiers.

So far, about the silver medalists thing, it was a single line mentioned by Crocodile, no more. And I don't think that any prisoner from level 6 will defeat a Yonkou, as it wouldn't make sense to : They were never shown, we don't their names, nada. Why would Oda suddenly make a prisonner defeat a character that is being defied by the hero ? That would be an ass pull in the same level of Kubo's ass pulls.

I remember Shiki, I also remember him being kicked by a gear 2 Luffy. I remember also that he probably was fooling around for 20 goddamn years doing nothing but scheming, I'm sorry, but even Lucci was more impressive than that old guy.

kkck
January 05, 2012, 03:43 PM
As far as the level six guys I would disagree a bit. Those guys were deemed by the world government powerful enough to make a country disappear at the very least. Each and every person there was a powerhouse and dangerous enough for even iva to not even consider releasing them even though they released with no problem a bunch of guys from level 5 and 4. Perhaps they are not individually as strong as the yonko however I would argue that each pirate there is at least strong enough to be a threat to any yonko. That is not something a measly level 5 prisoner would do. Level six prisoners would be guys with actual power that the world government for whatever reason managed to capture, at least that is what I think oda meant to tell us that arc. IMO it would not be strange that a level 6 prisoner will actually be not only a major enemy during an arc but also give current luffy a run for his money.

Zehahaha
January 05, 2012, 04:12 PM
As far as the level six guys I would disagree a bit. Those guys were deemed by the world government powerful enough to make a country disappear at the very least. Each and every person there was a powerhouse and dangerous enough for even iva to not even consider releasing them even though they released with no problem a bunch of guys from level 5 and 4. Perhaps they are not individually as strong as the yonko however I would argue that each pirate there is at least strong enough to be a threat to any yonko. That is not something a measly level 5 prisoner would do. Level six prisoners would be guys with actual power that the world government for whatever reason managed to capture, at least that is what I think oda meant to tell us that arc. IMO it would not be strange that a level 6 prisoner will actually be not only a major enemy during an arc but also give current luffy a run for his money.

Not arguing about their strenght, but more about the possibility of BM being taken off screen by some lvl 6 prisonner, that would be an asspull that even Kubo can't compare to.

They're certainly a threat to be reckoned with, but not like the Yonkou IMO.

kkck
January 05, 2012, 05:16 PM
I guess it depends. For a lone level 6 prisoner to kill big mom is unlikely to say the least but mostly because she has her entire crew behind her. Under an scenario where a prisoner manages to build a strong crew we have an entirely different scenario. I don't think it would be THAT weird that a prisoner there could actually match up to a yonko, it is just a matter of the circumstances being the right ones.

Zehahaha
January 05, 2012, 05:25 PM
I guess it depends. For a lone level 6 prisoner to kill big mom is unlikely to say the least but mostly because she has her entire crew behind her. Under an scenario where a prisoner manages to build a strong crew we have an entirely different scenario. I don't think it would be THAT weird that a prisoner there could actually match up to a yonko, it is just a matter of the circumstances being the right ones.

But out of nowhere without any hint, especially after the declaration of war, it would be a lame asspull.

Sakazuki
January 06, 2012, 06:40 AM
Big Mom not necessarily has to be defeated by a level 6 prisoner. Actually, it would be very interesting to see some of them joining her after their escape. If Luffy fight will fight her directly, so it would be good to see some really dangerous guys fighting with the others SHs.

nguqua
January 06, 2012, 05:01 PM
They were never shown, we don't their names, nada. Why would Oda suddenly make a prisonner defeat a character that is being defied by the hero ? That would be an ass pull in the same level of Kubo's ass pulls.
I wasn't thinking level 6 prisoners, but anyway, why do they have to defeat Big Mom in order to have an arc of their own?


I remember Shiki, I also remember him being kicked by a gear 2 Luffy. I remember also that he probably was fooling around for 20 goddamn years doing nothing but scheming, I'm sorry, but even Lucci was more impressive than that old guy.
I'm talking about the original Shiki that was intended to be Luffy's enemy in the New World. His character was absorbed into the movie. The timing of the movie could not possibly show Luffy after the 2 yrs timeskip so that's why Luffy had to defeat him prior to his 2 yrs training. The fact that Oda intended for someone like Shiki to become Luffy's enemy in the New World, who is neither a regular pirate like squardo, or current yonkou points to a strong possibility that some major powerhouses that we haven't met are waiting to have their arcs within future storyline. I apologize but I think it's too amusingly simplistic of a view to say that there are no character that falls inbetween someone like squardo and the yonkou.

Sakazuki
January 11, 2012, 10:50 AM
Now we know that a 300M bounty is just a office boy to BM pirates, what do you guys expect from now?

Lutzu
January 12, 2012, 10:36 AM
i don't think Pekoms its just an"office boy",him and Tamago will batlle with the strawhats when the time will come.

BlackHair
January 12, 2012, 01:36 PM
A office boy wouldn't get that much attention by Oda nor would BM (someone's who gives a shit for her weaker crewmates) remember his name. Also I don't even need to explain that bounty doesn't mean everything.

Sakazuki
January 12, 2012, 02:26 PM
A office boy wouldn't get that much attention by Oda nor would BM (someone's who gives a shit for her weaker crewmates) remember his name. Also I don't even need to explain that bounty doesn't mean everything.

Still, it means something. It means that he is dangerous to the WG.

I think that if he was so important (by this I don’t mean that he will be a Caribou like character) he would be collecting candies to her. Shanks didn’t sent Lucky Roo to take a message to WB, he just sent a rookie. His character could work like Blueno, been a warming-up to Luffy.

I don’t know if Pekons is a rookie, but I now the guy who was showed collecting candies is threat far above of many Shichibukais.

Josef K.
January 15, 2012, 06:36 PM
I mentioned it in the discussion thread for the newest chapter, but I will here because this is really interesting, Pecoms is based on Mock Turtle (http://www.krepcio.com/vitreosity/archives/mockturtleSIDEbyside.jpg) from Alice in Wonderland. I was planning to read this book again to see if it will help me predict any other Big Mom and their powers or looks, I think it was mentioned that they are themed form character form this book, now I think we can predict it more easily. :p

Zehahaha
January 15, 2012, 06:59 PM
I don’t know if Pekons is a rookie, but I now the guy who was showed collecting candies is threat far above of many Shichibukais.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/015/863/WTF_BOOM_by_S66IX.jpg

How can you even know such a thing about a character who was shown in like 2 panels only ?
How can you know that he's more dangerous than any Shichibukai ?

And don't give me that whole introduction thing here, the guy wasn't even introduced like BM was...

Sakazuki
January 16, 2012, 07:51 AM
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/015/863/WTF_BOOM_by_S66IX.jpg

How can you even know such a thing about a character who was shown in like 2 panels only ?
How can you know that he's more dangerous than any Shichibukai ?

And don't give me that whole introduction thing here, the guy wasn't even introduced like BM was...

First, I love your panels.:zomg

Second, what I understood about bounties in the OP world is that they do not rank the strength, but how someone is dangerous to the WG. Robing is a good example to this. She had a high bounty when she was a child just because she was Ohara survivor and most important, because she could read poneglyphs. Said this, I can presume that the higher the bounty is the higher is the threat to the WG.

By the bounties that we know from the Shichibukai, there is just one above Pekons. Of course some of them must be. I’m not saying that Pekons is a powerhouse, that he a top dog, nothing about this. I’m saying that the guy must be dangerous to the WG exclusively by terms of bounty. I can be wrong, but I wouldn’t fix a high value on the head of someone if it wasn’t an important person to me.

Zehahaha
January 16, 2012, 08:12 AM
But saying he's dangerous than the Shichibukai, especially that we know that their bounties are frozen... To say that Pekom is more dangerous than the like of Mihawk & Doflamingo...

But yeah he's a top dog no doubt about it.

P.S : I love putting panels from time to time, it changes the mood somehow :p

DLord.Van.Buuren
January 16, 2012, 09:29 AM
But saying he's dangerous than the Shichibukai, especially that we know that their bounties are frozen... To say that Pekom is more dangerous than the like of Mihawk & Doflamingo...

But yeah he's a top dog no doubt about it.

P.S : I love putting panels from time to time, it changes the mood somehow :p

He's a mere fighter in BM's crew.

Zehahaha
January 16, 2012, 09:30 AM
He's a mere fighter in BM's crew.

A mere fighter are fodders you saw behind Bobbin when he was shown, but a lieutenant of a Yonkou is certainly no " mere fighter ".

DLord.Van.Buuren
January 16, 2012, 09:34 AM
A mere fighter are fodders you saw behind Bobbin when he was shown, but a lieutenant of a Yonkou is certainly no " mere fighter ".

Could you please link me to the page where it said so ? I seem to have overlooked that.

Zehahaha
January 16, 2012, 01:24 PM
So you saying that someone with more than 300M bounty is a mere fighter in a Yonkou's crew ?

Mashiro_Luna
January 16, 2012, 07:23 PM
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/16037697/5 It says right there he is a fighter in Big Mom's Crew, if he was higher ranked or a lieutenat it would have said so in his introduction box like here with Jozu and Marco http://www.mangareader.net/103-2541-3/one-piece/chapter-434.html Guess we'll see who the top dogs are in Big Mom's crew eventually.

Lord Rayleigh
January 16, 2012, 11:18 PM
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/16037697/5 It says right there he is a fighter in Big Mom's Crew, if he was higher ranked or a lieutenat it would have said so in his introduction box like here with Jozu and Marco http://www.mangareader.net/103-2541-3/one-piece/chapter-434.html Guess we'll see who the top dogs are in Big Mom's crew eventually.

That's a point unless Big Mom have champions who don't need to lead a division to achieve a mission, and thus have the introducing box fighter under their head. So far it depends on the conditions Bobbins was sent to this island. Either he was just sent to collect sweets and if you come to think about it, he was sent with many other pirates to an island (he eventually destroyed) whereas Pekoms and Baron Tamago were sent just the two of them to bring back some sweets which seemed to be really more important than any other ones. Either, the people from the country which was destroyed had told Big Mom Pirates they would not have been able to produce sweets for time and Bobbins was still sent to collect the sweets with an army beasts that Tamago had been talking about. Since they still had not produced what they should have, Bobbins released the beasts on the island.

Jorge D. Dragon
January 17, 2012, 07:25 AM
I don't actually think that Pekoms and Tomago are important members of Big Mam's crew. I think Oda just wanted to show the average member's level in Big Mam's crew to understand how Luffy and his crew should grow to take such a crew down.

Kaiten
January 17, 2012, 02:08 PM
I think they will be important. When has Oda ever introduced minor crew members first, or even given them speaking roles? Most likely they are two of five or six officers in Big Mom's army, maybe the strongest, maybe not, but certainly among the highest ranking Big Mom pirates. Oda has never given average crew members high bounties or devil fruit powers. We know Pekom's has a very high bounty and we know he is a fruit user. From Buggy the Clown arc forward fruit users and high bounties are reserved for Captain's and officers.

Bounty does not equate to power levels, Robin had an 80 million Beri bounty as a child, but it does equate to how wanted a character is. The higher the bounty the higher the crime is in the eyes of the government. An average crew member would never receive a 300 million bounty, a bounty that high makes Pekoms at least a Level 5 prisoner in Impel Down, if caught. A bounty that high is reserved for high crimes, such as being an officer in the employ of a yonkou. Why would the government give him such a high bounty if he was simply a crew member?

Zehahaha
January 17, 2012, 03:12 PM
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/16037697/5 It says right there he is a fighter in Big Mom's Crew, if he was higher ranked or a lieutenat it would have said so in his introduction box like here with Jozu and Marco http://www.mangareader.net/103-2541-3/one-piece/chapter-434.html Guess we'll see who the top dogs are in Big Mom's crew eventually.

Nice, I love this.
Implying that BM somehow must have the same organisation as WB's crew, we don't know if BM's crew does have divisions and captains like WB did, so how can you assume from such a thing that Pekom is a mere fighter ? Also, how the hell is a 300M guy a mere fighter ?

kkck
January 17, 2012, 03:20 PM
Well, based on the square giving his name he is a fighter in big mom's crew. Not saying he is a commander or something of the sort is not quite relevant as the structure of the crew is not necessarily the same as WBs. In context, if tamago and pekoms hold the position of relevant fighters in a yonko's crew, they should by all intents and purposes be absolute beasts. I don't think they would be fighters if they were only of mediocre strength.

Mashiro_Luna
January 17, 2012, 04:02 PM
Nice, I love this.
Implying that BM somehow must have the same organisation as WB's crew, we don't know if BM's crew does have divisions and captains like WB did, so how can you assume from such a thing that Pekom is a mere fighter ? Also, how the hell is a 300M guy a mere fighter ?

I'm not implying they are mid-level fighters or anything I am only saying based on what we know that they are only fighters based on the avalible info we have. They probably are total beasts but for all we know there are also lieutenants that could be stronger. Based on what we know about them and not opinion on anything.

Zehahaha
January 17, 2012, 04:08 PM
I'm not implying they are mid-level fighters or anything I am only saying based on what we know that they are only fighters based on the avalible info we have. They probably are total beasts but for all we know there are also lieutenants that could be stronger. Based on what we know about them and not opinion on anything.

You said that because Oda put in the intro of Jozu and Marco that they're division captain, Pekom and Tamago must be just fighters and not top dogs of BM's crew because it was written that they're just fighter, that's absurd especially since we know that he have a 300M bounty. They are certainly one of the top dogs of BM's crew, whether they're the strongest top dogs or not, we don't know yet.

Lutzu
January 17, 2012, 06:02 PM
wow,why do you guys compare Tamago and Pekoms with Marco and Jozu?you could of course because Oda said in sbs that all 16 commandares of WB have the same strenght we could argue with this all day long and i know that the first 4 are stronger then the rest but this what Oda said,now lets see if they are going to fight in 1 or 2 arcs with the strawhats or when they are going to fight in Candy Island because i don't think BM in person is going to go after Luffy,i think she will send some of his fighters after them and will play a role in the upcoming arc thats why i said this is gong to be BM saga,if its going to be Pekoms and Tamago or someone else it dosen't matter,they will fight the strawhats,Oda has from where to choose from strawhats outside the monster trio to fight with them in the last arc of this saga if he indent to hold them for the last arc if not i think they will fight the monster trio.

Zehahaha
January 17, 2012, 06:07 PM
If, and I say if, BM is going to open the Tamatebako and the bomb explodes on her face, I can easily see her hunting the SH's herself.

Uriel
January 17, 2012, 06:16 PM
And the comparison between Whitebeard top commanders are absurd since Oda carefully did not show ANY hints of those numbers. So in my eyes if that's the case Pekoms and Tomago are the weakest commanders on Big Mom. Why I'm saying this? Because if an average WB commander would have a similar number it would have been shown before, since it's not that far from the bounties of Doflamingo and Luffy just to put an example. If He kept the number in secret (And knowing Oda He has somewhat planned these numbers, approx) must be because the number is higher than we can calculate currently.

Zehahaha
January 17, 2012, 06:19 PM
What we are sure of is that they're commanders/lieutenants or whatever, but we don't know yet whether they're the strongest or the weakest.

Uriel
January 17, 2012, 06:25 PM
Mark my words. They're the weakest.

Kaiten
January 17, 2012, 06:44 PM
I'm not implying they are mid-level fighters or anything I am only saying based on what we know that they are only fighters based on the avalible info we have. They probably are total beasts but for all we know there are also lieutenants that could be stronger. Based on what we know about them and not opinion on anything.

We can not assume that because Whitebeard had a fleet with a large, stratified crew that the other Yonkou will as well. Whitebeard became a pirate to gather a family so his crew continuously grew until it required a fleet with a hierarchy of commanders, lieutenants, and sailors. Other than the Marines, no other crew has such a heavily stratified structure. From Buggy to Arlong to Baroque Works to Enel to CP9 to Thriller Bark to Hodi every crew in the series has only had two tiers of fighters: the ones who fight a Straw Hat and extras. There is no doubt that Pekoms and Tomango will fight a Straw Hat, the only question is which one. That is the only way to assess power levels in One Piece: who fights whom. The leader fights Luffy, the strongest henchman fights Zoro, then comes Sanji, with Usop and Chopper getting the weakest.

The only clue that Oda has given so far is Pekom's bounty, which is very high, otherwise there is no indication of rank within Mom's crew. That will have to wait until later. For now all we know is that Pekom's did something to earn an obscene bounty, as high as Luffy's after attacking Enes Lobby and surviving a Buster Call. It is impossible within the boundaries of the story for a mid-ranked fighter to have a bounty that high.

hoeru
January 17, 2012, 07:16 PM
But Whitebeard's crew didn't have "lieutenants". He was the captain with 16 commanders - and it's pretty much official according to dialogue and databooks blue and yellow (there, Blackbeard is pointed out as deserter. I don't know if i've ever seen a lieutenant within a pirate crew...


Mark my words. They're the weakest.

Based on the reactions we saw from Tamago and Pekoms and the three-eyed girl about Bigmam raging about there's no sweets from Fishman Island, I tend to agree.

BlackHair
January 18, 2012, 07:04 AM
I tend to agree with those saying they might be on of her weaker/middle lieutenants, however I strongly disagree with those saying that they are just messenger boys. That's beyond ridiculous. Given BM's attitude, I honestly don't think she would even bother herself remembering her weaker crewmates.

xeteboi
January 19, 2012, 05:36 AM
Yes, i really agree too, everybody in BM's crew logically is a fighter, which means introducing Pekoms as a fighter gives the idea that they are like commanders/liutenants if not topdog then maybe the weakest since they are the first to be introduced..

zerocooldx
January 19, 2012, 03:39 PM
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/16037697/5 It says right there he is a fighter in Big Mom's Crew, if he was higher ranked or a lieutenat it would have said so in his introduction box like here with Jozu and Marco http://www.mangareader.net/103-2541-3/one-piece/chapter-434.html Guess we'll see who the top dogs are in Big Mom's crew eventually.

The only issue with this is the fact that we have no ides how BM organizes her crew. While we know exactly how WB organized his. For all we know in her crew a fighter may mean a member of the crew that is put up against other big name pirates to fight. Like a WB commander. Point being is that we don't know what a "fighter" means in BM's crew. If we just went off of universal titles then Sanji probably wouldn't ever be in a fight because he was so "weak" due to him being a cook. We have to wait and see that those titles mean, and even then we still have to see them in action to properly judge.

kkck
January 20, 2012, 02:40 PM
What he said. Even then, it is far more likely that tamago and pekoms are very relevant members than them not being such a thing. If they are fighters, one way or the other it means they are meant to fight. Being a relevant fighter in the new world is no small feat by any means imaginable. Unless that in big mom's crew the positions of fighters are held solely by rankless or not relevant folk it would be very strange that pekoms is not an equivalent to a commander or main crewmember. Him not being one of the main crewmembers would have other interesting implications among the actual strawhats. If he is one of the main crewmembers but it turns out his position of relative strength among the crew is comparable to ussops then it just shows how much the lesser strawhats have to grow. It would essentially mean that every strawhat at some point will be forced to develop haki or an alternative to it which would allow them to be more efficient against fruit users with weird bodies and other haki users.

hoeru
January 20, 2012, 03:15 PM
Has anyone thought about the possibility that Bigmam is actually an okama? There's an okama with the head of an unconscious marine soldier in his mouth in chapter 602 (http://www.batoto.net/read/_/4486/one-piece_ch602_by_mangarule/13). (instead of simply kissing him to K.O.)

Page356
January 21, 2012, 08:47 AM
As a whole I don't see the BM arc being that interesting when it gets to it. I'm sure BM is powerful but I'd like to think of a yonkou as a NW version of a Shichibukai. Luffy took on Croc's organization almost immediately upon entering the GL and I'd assume that this will be similar. BM doesn't even look like a serious threat like Croc did and that's important. Why is that important? The size of your opponent changes the entire fight dynamic. It seems like every fight involving giants has always been lame and awkward. Especially awkward. This of course does not extend to larger than average people like WB because the fight dynamic doesn't change.

I'm much more interested in her crew. The two fighters of BM crew are obviously very powerful if they can transverse the NW by themselves and are at least as powerful as vice admirals since they can use haki. It's going to be interesting to see how the weaker members of the SH adapt to fighting opponents who can use haki, kind of like at first in the series the weaker SHs didn't get to face DF opponents.

Ugh, I love a lot of the goofy parts of the manga, but I have a feeling it's about to get just plain weird when it gets to this arc.

Zmsp
January 21, 2012, 03:48 PM
Going back to the power lvl discussion, I doubt Pekoms and the other dude are the weakest, logic says otherwise..

Rockstar was a member of Shanks crew who seemed like one of the weakest links in the bunch, his bounty was 94 million, so if fighters worth 300 million are the weakest in BM's crew,the difference in power between both crews seems huge, considering that shanks was shown to have a relatively small amount of followers, I doubt that a random guy in BM's crew would be worth around 3 times more than a random guy from shanks' team and both would be yonkous..It may be the case,but it seems unlikely.

Zehahaha
January 21, 2012, 04:14 PM
Bounties are and will never show how strong a guy is, if you guys still don't understand that...

Since when size is a sign of weakness ? WB was huge as fuck, yet he carried the title of the strongest man in the world.

Schabrak
January 22, 2012, 05:06 PM
A new proposal: Big Mam is a [dwarfed] giantess.:D It would enable Oda to finally show Elbaf with all it's epicnessm while adding a nice sub-plot for Lysop to turn him into the warrior he aims to be or at least give him some plot at all.^^

Uriel
January 22, 2012, 06:02 PM
I don't know why I'm so obsessed with Dwarf Giants. They're so cool *-* If Big Mom happens to be one, I will immediately love her.

kkck
February 01, 2012, 04:37 PM
I found something interesting a few chapters back which would make for some interesting discussion (if someone else already pointed out this particular detail, well, blow me)
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v59/c582/7.html

I found this particular comment by bepo to be of relevance. Under the assumption that he is indeed a zoan, why would he want to find a female bear? it would make far more sense for him to be interested in a human female. In this particular regard I am a tad warmer to the idea that neither bepo or pekoms are originally humans but rather some sort of beast folk. In pekoms case it is interesting because he would simply be a lion man with a turtle fruit. I wonder what his hybrid form would be in this regard. Of course, he would still be based on the mythological lion turtle except that he would not be a myth zoan user.

Uriel
February 01, 2012, 09:56 PM
And it would be better, at least for me. I know that not all beasts and creatures can talk, but if Pappug learned how to talk I'm sure there is some other animal who can achieve the same. Not only that, but I think that if those animals gathered somewhere else a race can be made with ease. And I'm pretty sure that's how Fishmen first appeared.

kkck
February 01, 2012, 10:02 PM
Well, I don't think the issue is comparable to the papag case. Bepo and pekom's have something which would not be explainable at all if compared to papag. Papag ultimately is nothing but a sea star, in turn the differences between bepo and pekoms and regular bears and lions is painfully clear. Pekoms and bepo and ultimately anthropomorphic, they are not actual lions or bears. Just learning how to talk would not explain that at all. Thats why I mentioned they were some sort of beast folk. Taking it to a extreme they could even be an equivalent to land fishmen so to speak.

k-dom
February 06, 2012, 03:25 PM
Plus papag ability to talk is based on a pun so it shouldn't be working for everyone.
But nice find kkck, now it's almost certain he is no Zoan.

moontap
June 06, 2012, 01:25 PM
I can see big mam being lolas mother. Oda has a thing for not revealing everything at one time but people find out gradually. Lola said her mom was a strong pirate in the new world. its possible that after big mam finds out that the straw hats saved lola that they could have some sort of alliance.....or mabey she will just drop any problems she has with the strawhats.

BobbinaSu
September 12, 2012, 06:52 PM
THere's no way that Oda would make her weak and easily defeated. She's a Yonkou for a reason. One of her small fry crewmen have a 300 mill bounty. I'm pretty darn certain that she's Lola's mom, and Nami will be guided to her with the vivre card. Lola did say her mother was a powerful New World pirate. Plus they look kind of similar. Also, I think she's been eating Caesar's candies. Her addiction to sweets, giant size, and irrational behavior suggests this. Maybe Law wants to destroy the candies and make Big Mom go out of control, defeating a yonkou.
Also, I do find it strange how she'll fight. She's so big, I'm not sure how she's able to fight. She can't go around just eating things. She probably has a fruit similar to Wapol's in that she can eat stuff and it maybe it makes her change.