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faintsmile1992
January 06, 2012, 09:38 AM
I asked these questions on MF but most of the replies there weren't really on topic, so i'm expecting a better quality of replies over here on MH.

Do boys the age of the middle school boys in anime and manga consider a 19-20 year old girl too old to go out with because her age or maturity puts them off?

Would you go out with a 19-20 year old girl and still see her as a young girl who's just a few years older, or would she always be an 'older girl' even if she isn't more mature herself?

And if you would go out with her, do you expect someone 19-20 years old to be more mature?

kkck
January 06, 2012, 10:24 AM
You mean a 14 year old boy going out with a 19 year old girl? I would think such a boy would indeed see her as old although the part of him being willing to go out with her is up for grabs for the most part (are we talking about the kid pretending to be older or both parties full knowing of the difference of age?). I do doubt there would an expectation of maturity though. What in the hell would a 14 year old kid do with maturity? Anyways, a 19 year old girl going out with a kid that young is remarkably weird (specially if we consider most cultures have an expectation of the guy being actually older than the girl)

faintsmile1992
January 06, 2012, 10:50 AM
You mean a 14 year old boy going out with a 19 year old girl?

Yep.


I would think such a boy would indeed see her as old although the part of him being willing to go out with her is up for grabs for the most part (are we talking about the kid pretending to be older or both parties full knowing of the difference of age?).

I'm assuming that both of them know one another's ages.

Naomidee
January 06, 2012, 03:00 PM
Well, when I was around 15 or 16 I had a crush on an older girl who was about 19. I know I'm not a younger guy like you're asking, but even from that perspective I felt like she was a different age group than me. I did feel like there was a bit of a maturity difference there as well.

Really, I feel like anyone older than 18 going out with someone younger than 18 seems like a different age group. That's most likely because of 18 being the age of a "legal adult" here in the states, and it's just custom in my mind.

As a 19 year old girl, I would never go out with a guy that was younger than 18 even. It gives me chills to think of going out with a 14 year old boy! I'm not a pedo. :derp

faintsmile1992
January 06, 2012, 04:59 PM
Really, I feel like anyone older than 18 going out with someone younger than 18 seems like a different age group. That's most likely because of 18 being the age of a "legal adult" here in the states, and it's just custom in my mind.

Thanks, the reason I'm asking is because I prefer younger boys but now since I turned 18 its been a problem for them, even though most people wouldn't mind the age difference either way (its more normal for a 21yo boy to be with a 14yo girl). It seems to me that the kind of boys that I prefer understand what you call 'custom in your mind' as the law, too, whilst chavs and 'normal people' define whats acceptable by what they see one another doing.

Incidentally my asking the same questions has turned into a trollfest on the other forum lol. Its amazing, the difference in quality between MH and MF, where most of the replies don't even answer my questions.

kkck
January 06, 2012, 05:16 PM
Well, you wouldn't technically be a pedo as that involves prepubescent kids :p. Well, I am from a country where an age difference is encouraged in couples (although it is expected the guy is older) and in one case I did meet a guy who was 19 dating a girl who was 14 or 15 (I think it was 15 though). From my particular point of view that was weird and creepy though. On the other side, two years from now she is going to be 17 and he 22 in which case she at least won't be a little girl. I guess I do have a weird view in that way though. My issue here would not be in itself the age difference (it would be ok if a 18 year old went out with a 26 year old IMO although it is a large difference) but rather whether the person in question is a child in comparison. A 15 year old is basically a child and a 19 year old is technically a fully grown adult...

faintsmile1992
January 06, 2012, 05:33 PM
Well, you wouldn't technically be a pedo as that involves prepubescent kids :p. Well, I am from a country where an age difference is encouraged in couples (although it is expected the guy is older) and in one case I did meet a guy who was 19 dating a girl who was 14 or 15 (I think it was 15 though). From my particular point of view that was weird and creepy though. On the other side, two years from now she is going to be 17 and he 22 in which case she at least won't be a little girl. I guess I do have a weird view in that way though. My issue here would not be in itself the age difference (it would be ok if a 18 year old went out with a 26 year old IMO although it is a large difference) but rather whether the person in question is a child in comparison. A 15 year old is basically a child and a 19 year old is technically a fully grown adult...

Yep that's what I'm saying... people who are serious anime and manga fans seem to have a different value system from mainstream teens here in the UK too, and its not fair to me now I'm 19 *sigh*.

I'm not settling for a chav instead!

kkck
January 06, 2012, 06:11 PM
Why in the world would you want to date a 14 year old? So far it really has not been so weird to see girls who think guys their own age are immature. If you are 19 and he is 14 then is nothing short of a brat with not an ounce of maturity to spare or at all. I don't think this has to do with being a manga or anime fan, I enjoy both and I still would not even look at a girl significantly younger than me (even if my peers would due to cultural differences).

Naomidee
January 06, 2012, 06:14 PM
I was only joking about the pedo bit. :rofl

So you like younger guys, eh? That's interesting since I don't hear that from girls a lot. I know that it's "cool" for a boy to be going out with an older girl in his group of friends and all that. Of course, it would be very difficult because of legality issues. Then again, if you have his parents' permission, there's not really anything illegal about it. That's how the law works here anyway. Hopefully it's the same where you are.

Teubier
January 06, 2012, 07:00 PM
...A 15 year old is basically a child and a 19 year old is technically a fully grown adult...

It's all very relative. I believe it depends on many cultural and physiological elements, then on experiences. Where I live, what could be an hindrance is the difference between the contents of the life of a middle schooler, and that of a high schooler/college student. That's not really a matter of maturity of the mind, but a matter of occupation, I don't think it's exactly the same. If the boy, or rather young man, has been thinking about existential stuff for long enough, has experimented life enough, at 14~15 he should be able to avoid falling to what could be senseless society rules to him. Well, speaking from experience, I have loved older women when I was that age and it didn't feel one bit weird. Also, I had a friend who dated a woman 8 years older than him, he never mentioned anything about age difference while doing so, neither did she to my knowledge.
I don't think anyone could answer precisely to your first question, due to the vastness of standards, as to the other two however :
_ I would have, and I would have seen her as a young woman, not a girl, as much as I saw myself as a young man. I'm playing on words but it's important imo, it's about feeling old and strong enough to set your own rules into motion.
_ Not at all. At that age, unfortunately, I knew that anybody, no matter how old, could act like a child at anytime.

kkck
January 06, 2012, 08:31 PM
Well, of course younger boys are attracted to older woman, hell, what teenager has not looked at some point at a woman 20 years older and thought she was hot? In my particular school kids with milfs were not given an easy time to say the least lol. Still, that is not the point, the issue here is having said feelings reciprocated by such an older woman. Overall, I don't see how a 14 year old boy can have the same expectations out of a relationship as a 19 year old girl.

Freid
January 07, 2012, 02:33 AM
Hm, this reminds me of the time I was 13 and I liked an older girl. I tried to hug her one day and intentionally grabbed her ass while my hand was behind her. It was of course followed by a slap, but it was not from her; it was from her sister, so I didn't know whether she herself was really offended, or her sister's hand was just quicker than hers lol.

faintsmile1992
January 13, 2012, 12:42 PM
Kkck, I don't necessarily value 'maturity', or even understand what it means. What does it mean? The words mature and immature seem to get used a lot in these kinds of theads without any definition.

Actually anime and manga fans on forums, despite watching anime for 13 year old Japanese boys and fapping to the 2D characters of about that age, tend to be university students with the usual contempt for younger kids as well as kids their own age who aren't at university. In real life where not everyone wants to have sex with anyone under some stupid age of consent, nor to kill those who do, its socially acceptable for a 21 year old male to date and to sleep with a 14 year old female or more rarely the other way around.

Like the contempt the uni student types have for the younger convention goers carrying signs and offering free hugs at expos, their bashing younger fans is all about their insecurity over age and growing up, which is why they're still into shounen manga and anime when they're too old for the shounen demographic. These people are still at school taking lessons from real adults whilst other people their age might have started work, and other late teens/early twenties people don't feel negatively about kids just a few years younger than themselves.

---------- Post added at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ----------

Here's a bit more on why its better to date a younger boyfriend.

Why It's Smart for Teen Girls to Date Younger Boys
by Jillita Horton

http://voices.yahoo.com/why-its-smart-teen-girls-date-younger-boys-745547.html?cat=25

All along, I've always thought that if teen girls usually dated younger boys, the teen pregnancy rate would be significantly lower. What's a more likely scenario: 1) an 18 year old man pressuring a 16 year old girl to have sex; or, 2) a 14 year old boy pressuring a 16 year old to have sex? Come on, you know that many more times than not, the boy who gets on the girl's case to lose her virginity is older. Even one year older is substantial, when we're talking a 15 year old girl and 16 year old boy.

It just stands to reason that a boy will feel more confident about putting on the heat to a naïve girl to have sex, if she is younger.

Several years ago, it finally happened: A demographic study came out that verified my suspicions all along: A boy is far more likely to pressure a girl to have sex when she's younger!

Girls say they prefer older boys because they are more mature. Where did they get this idea from, considering that older boys seem to have only one thing on their mind? A boy talking a lot about having intercourse, telling the girl she should lose her virginity, threatening to break up with her if she doesn't - THAT'S maturity?

On the other hand, a boy who openly shows a sincere, genuine interest in an older girl is a boy with self-confidence who doesn't easily follow the crowd. He doesn't care what the herd mentality thinks and is not easily swayed by the foolish opinions of others. Sounds like a pretty mature kid to me. But typically, the girl of his affection will blow him off because he still doesn't need to shave, or doesn't have a driver's license. Now THAT'S immaturity on the part of the girl.

That older boy, with his gleaming car and part-time job, has more appeal to her. But a car and money don't mean he's mature and responsible!

If your 15 year old daughter has a crush on a 13 year old boy, don't fret! So what if he's only 5-2! In a few years he could be six feet. Would you rather that your daughter do what all the other girls her age are doing - going after the college boys?

Suppose you speak to 1,000 teen girls who had out-of-wedlock pregnancies. Now honestly, what percentage do you think got pregnant by younger boys? Be honest. You know doggone well you'd name a very, very, very low percentage.

Now, that 14 year old boy may be on course to becoming a very horny, pushy 17 year old. But like I said, it's logical to conclude that a 14 year old boy who approaches a 16 or 17 year old girl is a boy who feels very sure of himself, perhaps thinks on a very mature level, and isn't intimidated by what his peers might think. I can easily see him developing into a trustworthy, sensitive and respectful young man.

Lastly, when a teen girl is in an abusive relationship, what are the odds that the boy is younger, and I don't mean two months younger, but rather, she's 17, he's 15; or she's 16, he's 14, or she's 14, and he's 13? You know the answer.

Teubier
January 13, 2012, 04:07 PM
Kkck, I don't necessarily value 'maturity', or even understand what it means. What does it mean? The words mature and immature seem to get used a lot in these kinds of theads without any definition.

Maturity of the mind was close to being wise, in my words. But there isn't a clear definition of being mature indeed.

And good luck to you.

faintsmile1992
January 13, 2012, 07:36 PM
Thanks... *hugs*

I'm told I'm mature in some ways but immature in others, and most often that I'm just immature...

blai
January 14, 2012, 06:04 AM
Actually anime and manga fans on forums, despite watching anime for 13 year old Japanese boys and fapping to the 2D characters of about that age, tend to be university students with the usual contempt for younger kids as well as kids their own age who aren't at university. In real life where not everyone wants to have sex with anyone under some stupid age of consent, nor to kill those who do, its socially acceptable for a 21 year old male to date and to sleep with a 14 year old female or more rarely the other way around.



I wish to severely take a stand away from that generalisation and I very much doubt that manga and anime fans have a different view-point as you know. Fiction is one thing, reality another. A lot of shounen harem mangas involve 16 yr old girls but I doubt many of them would feel just as comfortable watching real 16 yr old girls in such a scene as it would feel immoral.

And where the fuck (pardon my french) is it socially acceptable for a 21 year old male to date and to sleep with a 14 year old female? You live in a weird place faintsmile...

To answer your original question; yes, when I was 14-15 I saw 19-20yr old girls as a different age group... Which they were as they were 5+ years older than me.

xi0
January 14, 2012, 06:37 AM
Maturity isn't just about someone's mindset either. I think I have a very wise and mature look on a variety of things (or so I've been told :p), but that doesn't mean I'm mature. Another facet is where someone is in their life, and that can be just as attractive to a mate as their personality or mindset. Plenty of successful people are incredibly stunted in other ways.

Like it was said earlier, if the parents consent, my opinion doesn't really matter. But such an age gap when people are that young doesn't seem beneficial in either case.

---------- Post added at 06:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:29 AM ----------

But yeah, I agree with blai. When I was that age I did view girls as being in a different age group...because they were :XD

faintsmile1992
January 14, 2012, 10:45 AM
And where the fuck (pardon my french) is it socially acceptable for a 21 year old male to date and to sleep with a 14 year old female? You live in a weird place faintsmile...

England, where its been normal for most of history lol.

xi0
January 14, 2012, 10:52 AM
That's not normal...it's certainly more a social norm than the opposite. This is the 21st century :XD

faintsmile1992
January 14, 2012, 11:14 AM
The 21st century is insane and corrupt.

Most of the people who object to sex between an 20yo and a 15yo, strangely believe in the 'right' of homosexuals to felch in private or, if they feel like it, in public toilets. They say next to nothing about the 20yo going to prison, except maybe a negative blog comment, but they condemn foreign regimes for 'human rights abuses' against such people and general political trouble makers. They associate the white majority and our traditional values like early marriage and reproduction with backwardness, whilst celebrating all kinds of non-traditional, especially non-reproductive sex. There is a method to their madness. ;)

blai
January 14, 2012, 11:45 AM
I'm sorry but I can't find the relation between being pro homosexuality and pro paedophilia.

xi0
January 14, 2012, 12:31 PM
Yeah, I don't see the correlation either. One would have to care what homosexuals do in their private lives in the first place, and I can't say I do.

There's a difference between whether there is something morally wrong with a younger boy dating an older woman, and whether it is legally wrong. Like I said, parental consent is all that matters. I personally think it's unconventional for a 15 year old boy to marry a 20 year old woman. I understand the historical difference between today's definition of adulthood and what it meant in past centuries, but we live now, not then.

faintsmile1992
January 15, 2012, 09:38 AM
Its not paedophilia, check the DSM-IV definition from when paedophilia was treated as a paraphilia.

All I said was that traditionally acceptable sexual behaviour and relationships are now crimes that people get imprisoned for even if it happens in private, whilst traditionally immoral sex and relationships (such as homosexuality) have become legalised, normalised and promoted in the media. This sort of inconsistency isn't done for reasons of privacy, tolerance or sexual freedom. There is a method to their madness.

kkck
January 15, 2012, 01:32 PM
Is it an inconsistency? I would argue the homosexuality thingy and the age difference thingy are entirely different subjects at least. In one case we are talking about consenting folk of similar ages (otherwise we are mixing both things) and a relation between an adult and a potential kid (either mentally or physically or both).

faintsmile1992
January 15, 2012, 02:05 PM
Of course it is inconsistency, when the rationalisation for one is not considered acceptable for another. Its not my analogy thats irrelevant but the difference.

xi0
January 15, 2012, 04:54 PM
But why would you even try to use the same rationalization for one on the other? They're not the same thing, legally or morally (IMO).

Things done between two consenting adults or those who are old enough to consent in the privacy of their homes isn't the same as one person in the relationship not being an adult in the first place. The concept of adulthood has changed in modern history, of course.

And why keep reemphasizing some sort of ulterior motive? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

faintsmile1992
January 15, 2012, 05:06 PM
Of course they're not the same thing, there are however many relevant similarities.

My point is that straight sex should be encouraged and gay sex shouldn't (or at least needn't). People used to get married and start a family earlier than they do at present because society encouraged this, and some people wanted to prevent this. The same people who look down on rural whites who marry and breed young as well as have large families, also promote homosexuality.

(If you look back at the thread, someone introduced the word 'backward'.)

kkck
January 15, 2012, 05:22 PM
What exactly are the relevant similarities between two consenting adults having sex and an adult having sex with a teenager (a 4 year difference)?

To be completely honest I would think that each situation is something of its own and should be analyzed differently... At least the implications are completely different even if you find some similarities.

warbandit66
January 15, 2012, 05:23 PM
When does anybody actually promote homosexuality? Seriously, who is doing this?

xi0
January 15, 2012, 05:59 PM
Yeah, I don't see promotion either. Now if you want to say society is too politically correct these days I might agree. But homosexuality isn't taboo like it once was because of tolerance, not because of promotion.

And people married young and had larger families because they had to. The infant mortality rate was ridiculously high at times. I don't care how large someone's family is any more than I care how someone bumps uglies *shrugs*

kkck
January 15, 2012, 06:01 PM
I guess it depends on what your mean by "promote". In context promoting such a thing does not make sense as you can't really turn people gay any more than what you can turn gays straight (even if no one has ever conclusively proven what causes such a thing to begin with). In this regard the appropriate word for that would be "support". I would think there are plenty of people supporting homosexuals.

xi0
January 15, 2012, 06:18 PM
I guess it depends on what your mean by "promote". In context promoting such a thing does not make sense as you can't really turn people gay any more than what you can turn gays straight (even if no one has ever conclusively proven what causes such a thing to begin with). In this regard the appropriate word for that would be "support". I would think there are plenty of people supporting homosexuals.

That's a good point, I agree. Though I would think the majority of people are more tolerant of that than "promote" it. Most people are indifferent.

Naomidee
January 19, 2012, 12:03 AM
Kkck, I don't necessarily value 'maturity', or even understand what it means. What does it mean? The words mature and immature seem to get used a lot in these kinds of theads without any definition.

ma·ture [adjective]

1.complete in natural growth or development, as plant and animal forms
2.ripe, as fruit, or fully aged, as cheese or wine
3.fully developed in body or mind, as a person
4.pertaining to or characteristic of full development
5.completed, perfected, or elaborated in full by the mind

That's the dictionary definition anyway. I think we're talking namely about mental maturity rather than physical, however. I like these definitions, but they're a bit different than the one I have.

I see maturity as the ability to learn from experience. In turn, you cannot be mature without any experience, but just because one has experience does not make them mature. When they are able to learn and grow from experience is the key to reaching any sort of level of being "mature".

People think they're mature just because they're not innocent anymore, or because they've had a hard life. It doesn't mean shit unless you grow and become strong from it though.

Sorry, I got off topic, didn't I? :p

benelori
January 19, 2012, 01:14 AM
Thanks, the reason I'm asking is because I prefer younger boys but now since I turned 18 its been a problem for them, even though most people wouldn't mind the age difference either way (its more normal for a 21yo boy to be with a 14yo girl). It seems to me that the kind of boys that I prefer understand what you call 'custom in your mind' as the law, too, whilst chavs and 'normal people' define whats acceptable by what they see one another doing.

Incidentally my asking the same questions has turned into a trollfest on the other forum lol. Its amazing, the difference in quality between MH and MF, where most of the replies don't even answer my questions.

Glad you feel that way about MH :D...anyways, I dunno if I can be strictly on topic on this, though...

Your preference of younger people is well, both surprising and not...I had a girlfriend for 4 months when I was 14-15...she was 18 and was in the 12th grade, so that's why it's not so surprising...if I were to sum up that relationship, I think the common fields that we were into got us together...we both played basketball, so we met a lot during training sessions...and we were two math geeks...the occasion when we hooked up was during a math competition:lmao...

Now...the math geeks in our highschool were not those inoffensive geeks you see in TV though...the math geeks were the heaviest drinkers in the school for one, the most easygoing people, and they had the favours of the teachers, because of the fact of being a math geek:p

So I guess in some sense we tried to act as adults...but still...I was practically a child, counting the strings of hair on my chest on one hand...so why this attitude is surprising, is because I don't think a child of 14 can ever rise to the intellectual, not even mentioning physical expectations of a 18-19 yo grown up woman...

I've risen to that level once...I guess the expectation level was really low:p

kkck
January 19, 2012, 01:39 AM
I can't help but wonder how a 14 year old math geek would related to an 18 year old math geek. Did she get off explaining calculus to a brat learning algebra or something lol? If you could actually hold a math conversation at her level either you were several years ahead of you while she was normal or she was... less than a math geek lol.

I do agree with what you said meeting either intellectual, emotional and physical expectations of an older woman though(specially the emotional part, in my experience girls tend to be very emotionally demanding from rather early ages while boys.... lol).

benelori
January 19, 2012, 02:12 AM
I can't help but wonder how a 14 year old math geek would related to an 18 year old math geek. Did she get off explaining calculus to a brat learning algebra or something lol? If you could actually hold a math conversation at her level either you were several years ahead of you while she was normal or she was... less than a math geek lol.


:lmao...it was just another example of meeting her frequently...we were in the same circles...


I do agree with what you said meeting either intellectual, emotional and physical expectations of an older woman though(specially the emotional part, in my experience girls tend to be very emotionally demanding from rather early ages while boys.... lol).

Yeah I still don't know what I delivered...I even cheated on her...I didn't take the relationship seriously at all-_-;...and I was the one who was fed up with her in the end:gwah

Weird...

---------- Post added at 09:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 AM ----------

About the emotional part....I guess if a 14 yo somehow finds the way to satisfy the young woman intellectually and maybe(in most cases not) physically, then emotions could come out after a while...and I'm not talking about a crush...I mean if they are together in the first place, then there has to be some common level of maturity(or the opposite lol)...so if those requirements are met, then in time the young boy will be able to be satisfying on an emotional level...

That's why I mentioned just physical and intellectual....they seem to be the premise of a relationship

kkck
January 19, 2012, 08:51 AM
All of that only raises even more questions :p

faintsmile1992
January 21, 2012, 04:02 PM
Well I don't have many intellectual and emotional expectations... but I do have the physical expectations and guys are best for that when they're in their early-mid teens. I don't 'do' emotions and I don't like small talk either, if that's what you mean by intellectual expectations. I can however feel close to people.

---------- Post added at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------


When does anybody actually promote homosexuality? Seriously, who is doing this?


Yeah, I don't see promotion either. Now if you want to say society is too politically correct these days I might agree. But homosexuality isn't taboo like it once was because of tolerance, not because of promotion.

And people married young and had larger families because they had to. The infant mortality rate was ridiculously high at times. I don't care how large someone's family is any more than I care how someone bumps uglies *shrugs*


I guess it depends on what your mean by "promote". In context promoting such a thing does not make sense as you can't really turn people gay any more than what you can turn gays straight (even if no one has ever conclusively proven what causes such a thing to begin with). In this regard the appropriate word for that would be "support". I would think there are plenty of people supporting homosexuals.


That's a good point, I agree. Though I would think the majority of people are more tolerant of that than "promote" it. Most people are indifferent.

My argument is that promotion of a political agenda through the media led to tolerance.

xi0
January 21, 2012, 06:10 PM
A political agenda? :blink

What exactly is wrong with tolerance? :oh

Freid
January 21, 2012, 09:49 PM
My argument is that promotion of a political agenda through the media led to tolerance.

Tolerance of the homosexual community has nothing to do with political agendas. Homosexual political agendas' objectives are to normalize homosexuality more than anything else.

faintsmile1992
January 22, 2012, 09:16 AM
Tolerance of the homosexual community has nothing to do with political agendas. Homosexual political agendas' objectives are to normalize homosexuality more than anything else.

Really? Before the gay agenda normalised it, there was no 'homosexual community' lol.

xi0
January 22, 2012, 09:19 AM
Really? Before the gay agenda normalised it, there was no 'homosexual community' lol.

There also wasn't women's suffrage, equality for races, or due process of the law until someone had an agenda........what's your point?

faintsmile1992
January 22, 2012, 09:33 AM
Now you mention it people in those movements did tend to be affiliated with the gay agenda. Whilst these movements and their performing pets got better off, people like me got worse off. Like I said, I'd have been better off before the 20th century, and before the Industrial Revolution happened. I don't benefit one bit from 'equality'.

That is all.

warbandit66
January 22, 2012, 09:43 AM
Now you mention it people in those movements did tend to be affiliated with the gay agenda. Whilst these movements and their performing pets got better off, people like me got worse off. Like I said, I'd have been better off before the 20th century, and before the Industrial Revolution happened. I don't benefit one bit from 'equality'.

That is all.

In what way does it effect you negatively?

faintsmile1992
January 22, 2012, 09:54 AM
In what way does it effect you negatively?

The whole part of this thread which started going off topic, has pretty much been about how some behaviours have become criminalised or taboo whilst others are enshrined as 'tolerance', and I happen to be worse off. At first I mentioned that heterosexual behaviour between teenagers is now an offence someone can be arrested for whilst homosexuality is sacrosanct, but I feel that people who used to be the social norm are discriminated against nowadays.

kkck
January 22, 2012, 12:46 PM
How does smalltalk related to intellectual expectations? I don't believe smalltalk actually requires high intellectual capacities at least lol. I would put smalltalk related to overall social aptitude rather than intellect, heck, some of the dumbest people I know have a remarkable capacity for it while some of the smarter are not necessarily talk-active at all. Of course, I am not saying you need to be dumb for it (social aptitude factor lol).

I am confused here though. How exactly is equality and homosexual rights and tolerance having a negative effect on you right now? you are being a tad ambiguous regarding this whole situation and I feel we might not be getting the points you are trying to make. You need to be a tad more specific lol (otherwise it just seems you are interested in brats just barely old enough for you to not be a pedophile).

Ok, and the one other thing that baffled me is how heterosexual behavior is something teens get arrested for. I probably missed your post explaining that because I don't see how that is even vaguely possible....

faintsmile1992
January 22, 2012, 02:07 PM
How does smalltalk related to intellectual expectations? I don't believe smalltalk actually requires high intellectual capacities at least lol. I would put smalltalk related to overall social aptitude rather than intellect, heck, some of the dumbest people I know have a remarkable capacity for it while some of the smarter are not necessarily talk-active at all. Of course, I am not saying you need to be dumb for it (social aptitude factor lol).

My social skills are like Dr House's except for small spells where I can convince people of anything. What else was meant by intellectual expectations, except conversation?


I am confused here though. How exactly is equality and homosexual rights and tolerance having a negative effect on you right now? you are being a tad ambiguous regarding this whole situation and I feel we might not be getting the points you are trying to make. You need to be a tad more specific lol (otherwise it just seems you are interested in brats just barely old enough for you to not be a pedophile).

To quote from posts in this thread that introduced the subject of homosexuality and social attitudes to sex.

xi0: That's not normal...it's certainly more a social norm than the opposite. This is the 21st century

faintsmile1992: The 21st century is insane and corrupt. Most of the people who object to straight sex between an 20yo and a 15yo, strangely believe in the 'right' of two homosexuals to felch in private or, if they feel like it, in public toilets. They say next to nothing about the 20yo going to prison, except maybe a negative blog comment, but they condemn foreign regimes for 'human rights abuses' against such homosexual people and general political trouble makers. They associate the majority and our traditional values like early marriage and reproduction with backwardness, whilst celebrating all kinds of non-traditional, especially non-reproductive sex. There is a method to their madness.


Ok, and the one other thing that baffled me is how heterosexual behavior is something teens get arrested for. I probably missed your post explaining that because I don't see how that is even vaguely possible....

Yep, because here in the UK 18 and 19 year old kids can get arrested for sex with younger kids under 16.

warbandit66
January 22, 2012, 04:06 PM
As a fully grown woman why would you want to? Most boys that age can't even really be classified as men.

faintsmile1992
January 22, 2012, 04:16 PM
I'm not I'm only 19.

warbandit66
January 22, 2012, 04:21 PM
Most females are fully grown by then.

faintsmile1992
January 22, 2012, 05:21 PM
Who cares?

warbandit66
January 22, 2012, 05:35 PM
My point is that most grown women aren't interested in boys. Not based on physical appearance at least.

faintsmile1992
January 22, 2012, 05:53 PM
Big schoolers (12+) aren't little kids. If you're from the UK you should know that lol.

And how huge was the Hope Estheim fandom before the timeskip? ;)

Freid
January 22, 2012, 06:36 PM
Really? Before the gay agenda normalised it, there was no 'homosexual community' lol.

You misinterpreted what I meant my 'normalize'. By normalize, I mean that the gay agenda aims to put homosexuality in the same status of equality as heterosexuality and integrate it into mainstream American society. This is practically impossible without completely reconstructing America's traditional values.

The media is probably the most powerful force influencing society's perception of homosexuality today, not political agendas. It doesn't even make sense.

Charlie
January 22, 2012, 06:38 PM
My point is that most grown women aren't interested in boys. Not based on physical appearance at least.

The key word there is most. I know of one case where an older woman, had and still has a relationship with a younger guy. Besides that I recall a few from the news of similar things though those women are or were in jail.

faintsmile1992
January 22, 2012, 07:50 PM
You misinterpreted what I meant my 'normalize'. By normalize, I mean that the gay agenda aims to put homosexuality in the same status of equality as heterosexuality and integrate it into mainstream American society. This is practically impossible without completely reconstructing America's traditional values.

The media is probably the most powerful force influencing society's perception of homosexuality today, not political agendas. It doesn't even make sense.

Do you really think the media is apolitical? ;)

kkck
January 22, 2012, 09:33 PM
My social skills are like Dr House's except for small spells where I can convince people of anything. What else was meant by intellectual expectations, except conversation?



To quote from posts in this thread that introduced the subject of homosexuality and social attitudes to sex.

xi0: That's not normal...it's certainly more a social norm than the opposite. This is the 21st century

faintsmile1992: The 21st century is insane and corrupt. Most of the people who object to straight sex between an 20yo and a 15yo, strangely believe in the 'right' of two homosexuals to felch in private or, if they feel like it, in public toilets. They say next to nothing about the 20yo going to prison, except maybe a negative blog comment, but they condemn foreign regimes for 'human rights abuses' against such homosexual people and general political trouble makers. They associate the majority and our traditional values like early marriage and reproduction with backwardness, whilst celebrating all kinds of non-traditional, especially non-reproductive sex. There is a method to their madness.



Yep, because here in the UK 18 and 19 year old kids can get arrested for sex with younger kids under 16.

Well, I always personally thought of smalltalk and conversation as innately different things (maybe I should not have assumed others to see it the same way lol). I always saw smalltalk as something that does not go anywhere in particular, most people don't even seem to remember it 20 afterwards lol.

Oh, I remember that post although it made little sense to me. I honestly don't see why half the stuff there should even be compared (namely people with such an age difference and homosexuals engaging in sexual relations).

And where did the heterosexual part come into play regarding the last point? I am unfamiliar with specific laws in the UK however your post would seem to imply that it is written so that if a 18-19 year old man engaged in sex with a 16 or under aged boy the penalties would not be as severe or even exist.

faintsmile1992
January 22, 2012, 11:09 PM
Well, I always personally thought of smalltalk and conversation as innately different things (maybe I should not have assumed others to see it the same way lol). I always saw smalltalk as something that does not go anywhere in particular, most people don't even seem to remember it 20 afterwards lol.

What are 'intellectual expectations' though?


Oh, I remember that post although it made little sense to me. I honestly don't see why half the stuff there should even be compared (namely people with such an age difference and homosexuals engaging in sexual relations).

Read again and pay more attention to the short bolded sentences, and it should make more sense to you.

xi0: That's not normal...it's certainly more a social norm than the opposite. This is the 21st century.

faintsmile1992: The 21st century is insane and corrupt. Most of the people who object to straight sex between an 20yo and a 15yo, strangely believe in the 'right' of two homosexuals to felch in private or, if they feel like it, in public toilets. They say next to nothing about the 20yo going to prison, except maybe a negative blog comment, but they condemn foreign regimes for 'human rights abuses' against such homosexual people and general political trouble makers. They associate the majority and our traditional values like early marriage and reproduction with backwardness, whilst celebrating all kinds of non-traditional, especially non-reproductive sex. There is a method to their madness.


And where did the heterosexual part come into play regarding the last point? I am unfamiliar with specific laws in the UK however your post would seem to imply that it is written so that if a 18-19 year old man engaged in sex with a 16 or under aged boy the penalties would not be as severe or even exist.

And read what I wrote about 'non-traditional, especially non-reproductive sex'.

Freid
January 23, 2012, 03:38 AM
Do you really think the media is apolitical? ;)

Well, political media has actually lent little aid in making society more tolerant of homosexuality. If anything, it causes the issue to be more controversial and propagates further divide in the people's views.

On the other hand, the biggest positive influence of homosexual perception through the media is television. Recently, American television has seen a rise of shows that show acceptance of homosexuality and emphasizes them in a good light.

faintsmile1992
January 23, 2012, 04:10 AM
Well, political media has actually lent little aid in making society more tolerant of homosexuality. If anything, it causes the issue to be more controversial and propagates further divide in the people's views.

On the other hand, the biggest positive influence of homosexual perception through the media is television. Recently, American television has seen a rise of shows that show acceptance of homosexuality and emphasizes them in a good light.

if you think what you just wrote yourself about the 'apolitical' media, it confirms what I said, because those television shows are making a stance on a divisive political issue. ;)

Freid
January 23, 2012, 05:07 AM
if you think what you just wrote yourself about the 'apolitical' media, it confirms what I said, because those television shows are making a stance on a divisive political issue. ;)

No, what you said was that a promotion of a political agenda through the media led to tolerance, which is not the same as television shows making a stance on a divisive political issue. Television shows are not political agendas.

faintsmile1992
January 23, 2012, 06:40 AM
No, what you said was that a promotion of a political agenda through the media led to tolerance, which is not the same as television shows making a stance on a divisive political issue. Television shows are not political agendas.

No, but they're made by people with agendas.

kkck
January 23, 2012, 12:33 PM
What are 'intellectual expectations' though?



Read again and pay more attention to the short bolded sentences, and it should make more sense to you.

xi0: That's not normal...it's certainly more a social norm than the opposite. This is the 21st century.

faintsmile1992: The 21st century is insane and corrupt. Most of the people who object to straight sex between an 20yo and a 15yo, strangely believe in the 'right' of two homosexuals to felch in private or, if they feel like it, in public toilets. They say next to nothing about the 20yo going to prison, except maybe a negative blog comment, but they condemn foreign regimes for 'human rights abuses' against such homosexual people and general political trouble makers. They associate the majority and our traditional values like early marriage and reproduction with backwardness, whilst celebrating all kinds of non-traditional, especially non-reproductive sex. There is a method to their madness.



And read what I wrote about 'non-traditional, especially non-reproductive sex'.

Well, I guess what people would expect from a partner intellectually vary... anyways, what I meant by that is somewhat broad. How smart do you expect a serious partner to be? how knowledgeable in general? How knowledgeable about specific things? Points of view? Overall the differences in this can be quite severe to say the least between a 14 year old and a 19 year old. Realisitcally speaking a 14 year old has no experience of anything, has not finished acquiring the most basic knowledge of things. heck, 2 years ago he was an actual child lol, not even a teenager. In general I wouldn't think a gap in this things in itself wrong however even without taking in consideration that girls grow up a tad faster than boys (either emotionally or physically) this would seem like a somewhat large gap(unless of course you prefer a younger kid so you can be in controll ;).

this particular age is no more corrupt or insane than any other in particular IMHO. Every other century has been about as crazy or more than this one. Its not like we see 25% of the population disappearing due to rat related deseases nowdays lol. I would argue that the world is not in itself crazier than it has ever been, we just have more technology and the communication means to see faster and better what is going on around us. Seriously, what has been so overwhelmingly fantastic about any other particular age regarding values, morals or technology? even with its flaws this age would seem to be significantly better than any previous one for women. Not that long ago the notion of a women educating herself was actually nonexistent and not that long before that they were barely seen as people and in turn they were more along the lines of baby making machines meant to look pretty. Even then, it is not like women can't willingly go for such a lifestyle (many still do).

One way or the other there is no reason to compare half the stuff you are comparing. Perhaps I would agree in that people's takes on large families (and perhaps my own considering in the long run I would never have more than 2 or 3 kids lol) is a tad extreme as such a thing is actually looked down on at large (I know a couple of girls who want "large"families and don't honestly know why they would want to spend between 5 and 10 years of their short lives pregnant lol). Still, there is no actual reason for those to be comparable, sex between teenagers and adults in an entirely different subject from adult consenting homosexuals engaging in sex. heck, even if the situation of a teenager engaging homosexual sex with an adult arose the issue in itself would not be the gender but rather the age difference.

Now, if you are making this about new values vs old ones then we have a mildly different topic at hand. Granted that the ideas that all older values are backward and wrong is not necessarily a good approach to the whole thing (ultimately, most of those things are subjective). I have nothing in particular against either early marriage (if anything, I don't see why remain single for long after finishing education and acquiring an stable income considering the late age at which one would be done with raising kids lol) and having a lot of kids (just not my personal preference) . IMHO saying that society at large is favoring unconventional non reproductive sex over heterosexual sex is a extreme and rather innacurate interpretation of what is actually going on. People at large not wanting many or 0 kids does not necessarily imply the rejection of heterosexual sex (just the reproductive part lol). Spreding tolerance for gay relations does not imply that either, its not like people are turning gay because of it, its just a change of perspective of something that has been around for as long as humanity itself.

Freid
January 23, 2012, 01:31 PM
No, but they're made by people with agendas.

You mean directors? Yeah, no shit. All credible directors have a vision that they want their show or movie to portray. Really, it wasn't worth mentioning, especially since it does nothing to defend your precedent point in saying that politics are responsible for society's tolerance of homosexuals. The fact is that tolerance of homosexuality is not one of the things that politics has accomplished. As aforementioned, politics has sparked more controversy than it has anything else, in regards to the homosexual issue.

warbandit66
January 23, 2012, 02:25 PM
You say that the 21st century is "insane and corrupt" yet in centuries past people where committing terrible acts of violence against their fellow man on the basis of race or sexuality. Oscar Wilde was imprisoned for being homosexual. That doesn't sound insane to you?

faintsmile1992
January 23, 2012, 06:41 PM
You say that the 21st century is "insane and corrupt" yet in centuries past people where committing terrible acts of violence against their fellow man on the basis of race or sexuality. Oscar Wilde was imprisoned for being homosexual. That doesn't sound insane to you?

No?

Most of those stories are propaganda anyway, they were written by the sort of people who actually believe imperialism and (most) eugenics were motivated by race, when even Nazi ideology wasn't motivated by German or Nordicist racial theories, anything like as much as it was by volk.

And as far as sexuality goes, this is mostly lies about how people in the Middle Ages burned thousands of 'faggots' as criminals (together with the lie that the word 'faggot' comes from the faggots of wood used to burn criminals). In truth the word faggot is nowhere near as old in the English language to support that etymology, and if the English courts had ever persecuted homosexuals anything like as much as the left are now claiming, there'd be a lot more record of it lol.

And Oscar Wilde brought it on himself, check your facts first. If he hadn't made a high profile case of his homosexuality when the Marquess of Queensbury accused him of being a sodomite, then lost because the 'libel' was actually correct. How is any of this supposed to be insane?

Whatever anyone thinks of Oscar Wilde's wit or his plays, he was no victim of 'homophobia', his lifestyle brought misfortune onto himself and he probably thought so himself before he died.

"Remove homosexuality from the equation, and what are we left with? A married man who engages in depraved sexual practices with younger, impressionable people, including consorting with prostitutes, then goes home and sleeps with his wife, which could have resulted in his giving her some unmentionable disease. We have, too, a man who seeks to have another man thrown into gaol because he has the temerity to protect his son, a man who resorts to artifice, and perjury in order to effect that, or tries to. What sort of victim was Wilde?" - Alexander Baron

blai
January 23, 2012, 07:38 PM
Seriously guys, this has NO direct relation to the topic of whether younger boys see 19/20 year old girls as a different age group or not.

Stick to the topic and get the other discussion out of here, pref. to the GWT section.

The thread was a simple preference question, not a socio-political question with any relation whatsoever to homosexual persecution as this has nothing with laws or politics to do but personal preferences.

Get back on topic now please.

benelori
January 24, 2012, 07:01 AM
Well I don't have many intellectual and emotional expectations... but I do have the physical expectations and guys are best for that when they're in their early-mid teens. I don't 'do' emotions and I don't like small talk either, if that's what you mean by intellectual expectations. I can however feel close to people.


That's strange...so basically unexperienced, noobies are more up to UR expectations than more experienced ones? Hmm...
You say you don't 'do' emotions, but since you don't 'do' them, it means that you don't know what emotions are...so that's a bit of a contradiction right there...
And smalltalk is not intellectual at all...it's, well...just smalltalk...

faintsmile1992
January 24, 2012, 08:16 AM
That's strange...so basically unexperienced, noobies are more up to UR expectations than more experienced ones? Hmm...
You say you don't 'do' emotions, but since you don't 'do' them, it means that you don't know what emotions are...so that's a bit of a contradiction right there...
And smalltalk is not intellectual at all...it's, well...just smalltalk...

Actually I can't understand what emotions are, I know I feel but it runs on blindsight so I can tell when I feel good or bad but that's about it.

Don't forget male sexual desire and stamina are highest at the onset of puberty along with sperm count. ;)

benelori
January 24, 2012, 08:29 AM
Actually I can't understand what emotions are, I know I feel but it runs on blindsight so I can tell when I feel good or bad but that's about it.

Don't forget male sexual desire and stamina are highest at the onset of puberty along with sperm count. ;)

Emotions are something to be felt actually...and emotions of a relationship are a bit more complicated than that...

I don't know if sperm count is actually relevant here...but let's say it is on a physiological level...anyways, I don't think that last part is true, or at least not regarding the stamina...not even mentioning that stamina has little to do with living up to the sexual expectations(or well, it's not the only important thing)...which is just a part of what I referred to as physical expectations

warbandit66
January 24, 2012, 09:04 AM
Don't forget male sexual desire and stamina are highest at the onset of puberty along with sperm count. ;)

But a teenage boy undergoing puberty isn't going to be well built. Surely a muscular frame is more desirable than a boyish physique.

benelori
January 24, 2012, 09:14 AM
But a teenage boy undergoing puberty isn't going to be well built. Surely a muscular frame is more desirable than a boyish physique.

Well...that's more of an aesthetic issue, which is quite subjective...

faintsmile1992
January 24, 2012, 09:24 AM
Emotions are something to be felt actually...and emotions of a relationship are a bit more complicated than that...

How are they complicated?


I don't know if sperm count is actually relevant here...but let's say it is on a physiological level...anyways, I don't think that last part is true, or at least not regarding the stamina...not even mentioning that stamina has little to do with living up to the sexual expectations(or well, it's not the only important thing)...which is just a part of what I referred to as physical expectations

Then what are physical expectations?

I'd like people to explain these things because I don't even understand what they mean.

benelori
January 25, 2012, 04:02 AM
How are they complicated?



Well maybe I chose a wrong word for it, maybe not complicated, but there is a wider range of emotions involved in a relationship, other than love(or attraction w/e)...stuff like trust, reliance, the pleasure of being with the partner, just being near him...which means that the partner is a pleasant, interesting company...all these together with love/like make a relationship to work normally IMO


Then what are physical expectations?

I'd like people to explain these things because I don't even understand what they mean.

Well, everything you can relate to physical really...attractiveness, gestures, body language for example...of course these are subjective, and one could find something valuable in a kid/teenager, but most kids are not defined in this case, because well....they are still kids...

Oh yeah...and of sexual expectations are in here as well...not even mentioning that even in this department aesthetics are involved as well

faintsmile1992
January 25, 2012, 03:32 PM
Oh yeah...and of sexual expectations are in here as well...not even mentioning that even in this department aesthetics are involved as well

Well like I said the male sexual peak is at around age 14 so sexual expectations are no problem.

Freid
January 25, 2012, 03:42 PM
14? Lolz. Men are said to reach their sexual peak at the age of 18.

faintsmile1992
January 25, 2012, 04:02 PM
In politically correct talk. ;) Before that (ie in The Naked Ape) the age of 14 is given as standard.

---------- Post added at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 PM ----------

Anyway shut up and listen!

[video=youtube;zqpOCap7i_c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqpOCap7i_c[/youtube]

"This video is most popular with:
Female 18-24
Male 13-17"
Oh bby."

Freid
January 25, 2012, 05:09 PM
In politically correct talk. ;) Before that (ie in The Naked Ape) the age of 14 is given as standard.

Lol well, it's also somatically correct because it is generally the age where a guy's sex hormones are highest. Still, I think it'd be wrong to say that all males and females reach their sexual peak at one specific age; It would vary, but it'd definitely be a less common thing for guys in their early teens.