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LetalHawk
March 15, 2012, 07:23 AM
I've been thinking this for a while and I would love to see this dream match.

Who would be the winner? What do you guys think? Could Fuji see through Irie's acting and make him play all out? Or would Irie rape Fuji?

We have to consider that Fuji, since his loss with Tezuka, has improved a great deal, and might have new counters waiting to be released :)

FrostyMouse
March 15, 2012, 09:17 AM
There's a problem with the basic question of the thread.


We have to consider that Fuji, since his loss with Tezuka, has improved a great deal, and might have new counters waiting to be released :)

No, just no. Look, if we do see Fuji again, he'll have gained something new, but you can't just extrapolate about the future. You can't say some unseen 7th Counter can break Irie. We haven't seen it, so it doesn't exist.

Until Fuji plays again, Irie either bagels him or KOs him.

End of story.

/thread

LetalHawk
March 15, 2012, 09:31 AM
I was just wondering what would be the result.

But yeah, close the thread if you like. If you don't want, don't comment here, what's the point of making threads and you want to end it, I don't understand you. At least there are people who will nicely discuss without coming here and starting to talk shit.

Kaoz
March 15, 2012, 09:43 AM
No insults.

Also I would recommend adding a poll. If you don't know how to make one, feel free to pm me with the options you'd like.

Airgrimes
March 15, 2012, 03:03 PM
I've been thinking this for a while and I would love to see this dream match.

Who would be the winner? What do you guys think? Could Fuji see through Irie's acting and make him play all out? Or would Irie rape Fuji?

We have to consider that Fuji, since his loss with Tezuka, has improved a great deal, and might have new counters waiting to be released :)

Unfortunately, Fuji has been shown to be weak against Mind-rapers. Niou who Fuji should have PWNED, did a little bit of Mindfuck and took 5 instant games.
Irie, who is perhaps the captain of mindfuck, would probably do a lot worse. He really messed up Atobe.

Since Irie could return all of Atobe's smashes, I see him handle all of Fuji's counters eventually. Although 5th Counter will take several games. So Im looking at 6-3 to Irie.
This is coz 6th Counter can only counter Cord Balls.

But yeah, Im praying we get MORE than a 7th Counter lol. hopefully like 3-4 new techniques.
The most popular character besides the plot-powered main character has had practically no screentime and it would make the great Konomi a suddenly shit writer if he gave the not-so-popular-Sanada loads of screentime + MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT and give Fuji little improvement.

Kaoz
March 15, 2012, 04:20 PM
Since Irie could return all of Atobe's smashes, I see him handle all of Fuji's counters eventually. Although 5th Counter will take several games. So Im looking at 6-3 to Irie.

Why would Heca take more than one try? Irie has a massive 7 Tech (at least, who knows whether it isn't higher when he's serious), surely that'd be sufficient to put a great enough counter spin on the ball.


The most popular character besides the plot-powered main character has had practically no screentime and it would make the great Konomi a suddenly shit writer if he gave the not-so-popular-Sanada loads of screentime + MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT and give Fuji little improvement.

Also you don't have to make this point every other post, I'm sure we won't forget all of a sudden. While popularity certainly is something to consider, Sanada always was a leader type character, so just abandoning him in this situation wouldn't work well either. Also, I would guess that Fuji got the most panel time by far out of the characters that didn't have a match so far.

-Ken-
March 16, 2012, 02:20 AM
Well, I don't think it'll be too wrong to assume all of the player techniques have improve since he enter the U-17 camp. 5th counter is probably stronger now. It might take Irie by surprise once or twice.

As for the discussion, I'll go for Irie. I know the premise of the discussion. Fuji must have gotten stronger since then. But until he have his match, we don't know how much he improved. And from what I've seen of Irie, he kick some serious butt.

Vanillaicecream
March 16, 2012, 03:04 AM
Hello everyone! my first time posting in this forum.

As for the topic,

Irie is good even Tanegashima a no.2 1st stringer complimented Irie meaning a serious Irie would really roflstomp any middleschooler. and because of his amazing acting I can assume that he only toyed atobe in their match. but even though Irie might be a God or some sort of to be revealed in later chapters which I think would happen, but that doesn't change the fact that Fuji from Seigaku and known to be the second strongest to Tezuka in terms of skills and tactics. Fuji questions himself on why does Tezuka seem to be one step ahead of Him. and tells himself that someday I will surpass you. This said, that Fuji has more up his sleeves and he can improve as to defeat Tezuk. Fuji is a very promising player and I doubt he would lose to Yukimura/Sanada or any middle school player except Tezuka for now. It's really a mistake to underestimate Fuji. keep in my mind that this story revolves for middle schoolers specifically the team Seigaku.

Fuji is Fuji he is a Prodigy/Genius I dont think because of Mind fuck acting of Irie would destroy fuji. I doubt it. Fuji has always been shown to be an extra ordinary player and with drastic improvements every match. remember the match between Fuji and Niou? when fuji showed him a new counter he was speechless. we ddnt even know how it happened. so I'm sure fuji will show other impressive moves in his coming fight.

and to all thinking that Shiraishi > Fuji LOL. It was a character development in Fuji's part Konomi made to show us how a single defeat would change a character's ability drastically.

Airgrimes
March 16, 2012, 01:21 PM
Why would Heca take more than one try? Irie has a massive 7 Tech (at least, who knows whether it isn't higher when he's serious), surely that'd be sufficient to put a great enough counter spin on the ball.

5th Counter is yet to be returned in one try. How on earth would Irie know how much spin to put on the ball before he has even seen the technique? It would make no sense if he knew the perfect amount of topspin before he has seen it.
I reckon it will take a few points every now and then.

Now that I look at Fuji, he would get annihalated by Irie. Nationals!Fuji stands no chance against the Top guys in the camp.

It really is an Irie crushing Fuji situation.



Also you don't have to make this point every other post, I'm sure we won't forget all of a sudden. While popularity certainly is something to consider, Sanada always was a leader type character, so just abandoning him in this situation wouldn't work well either. Also, I would guess that Fuji got the most panel time by far out of the characters that didn't have a match so far.

Yeah I guess I troll it quite a lot. But its 100% true at least.
Sanada has had the most panel time by far out the characters that didn't have a match so far actually.

Im not saying he should be abandoned, Im saying his power should be kept in check. Not let him become strongest in the camp. Since a lot of guys believe Tanegashima is in fact the best in the camp. If Sanada beats Tanegashima, then Sanada is then best in the camp. Im not cool with that at all.

---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------


Hello everyone! my first time posting in this forum.

As for the topic,


[QUOTE=Vanillaicecream;2821891]
Irie is good even Tanegashima a no.2 1st stringer complimented Irie meaning a serious Irie would really roflstomp any middleschooler. and because of his amazing acting I can assume that he only toyed atobe in their match. but even though Irie might be a God or some sort of to be revealed in later chapters which I think would happen, but that doesn't change the fact that Fuji from Seigaku and known to be the second strongest to Tezuka in terms of skills and tactics. Fuji questions himself on why does Tezuka seem to be one step ahead of Him. and tells himself that someday I will surpass you.
Yes. Fuji may beat him in the future. We can only deal with the now. There is no use in discussing future plot power.
Right now, Fuji would only survive using Closed Eye and Cord Ball. Irie's technique is above Tezuka's and Shiraishi's. He would undoubtably bring down the 5 counters within one game , 2 games max.

6th Counter only works against Cord Balls from what we have been shown. Irie can simply not hit cord balls to avoid it. Irie uses World of Ice for a few games. and its game set soon enough.



This said, that Fuji has more up his sleeves and he can improve as to defeat Tezuk. Fuji is a very promising player and I doubt he would lose to Yukimura/Sanada or any middle school player except Tezuka for now. It's really a mistake to underestimate Fuji. keep in my mind that this story revolves for middle schoolers specifically the team Seigaku.

...We are well aware he is promising lol. But he is yet to do anything in Shin PoT. On here we dont talk about stuff that is yet to happen when discussing tiering and strength.
Until Fuji displays a technique to counter power, Sanada's Lightning and Black Aura will finish him.
Yukimura and Sanada are the same. Yukimura can see through ALL special shots. The counters would be ineffective. Yukimura's shots ALL got the base line and he would avoid Cord balls meaning 6th Counter is ineffective.

So are you saying Fuji wont lose to them in the future? Or that Fuji is above them?
Since yeah, with plot power, Fuji could be at their level or even above but right now, Fuji has shown nothing new since Nationals. and Nationals!Fuji would get destroyed by Yukimura/Sanada, he wouldnt beat Akutsu, Atobe, Tooyama, Shiraishi, Niou(Since he has ZSS).



Fuji is Fuji he is a Prodigy/Genius I dont think because of Mind fuck acting of Irie would destroy fuji. I doubt it. Fuji has always been shown to be an extra ordinary player and with drastic improvements every match. remember the match between Fuji and Niou? when fuji showed him a new counter he was speechless. we ddnt even know how it happened. so I'm sure fuji will show other impressive moves in his coming fight.
What technique would Fuji use against Irie who made Atobe's smashes look soft?
You think the counters would work for Fuji to win 6 games? No way.
Bottom line. Fuji wont beat Irie til he gets something new.
I remember Fuji VS Niou. He could only counter coz Niou became Shiraishi with the golden arm weight and hit a cord ball. I dont think it can be used against non-cordballs.



and to all thinking that Shiraishi > Fuji LOL. It was a character development in Fuji's part Konomi made to show us how a single defeat would change a character's ability drastically.
Shiraishi > Fuji. Konomi trolled us and told us that Shiraishi was playing with a freaking gold weight during the match. End of.
Until Fuji learns something new, its Shiraishi > Fuji.
If Shiraishi faced 5th Counter without the golden weight, he would avoid cordballs.

LetalHawk
March 16, 2012, 04:58 PM
Well, Irie has high technique and mental, so he could deal with the counters.

Still, Fuji<Irie<Yukimura. Yukimura would defeat them both, but I see Fuji in the future being able to surpass both Irie and Yukimura.

Airgrimes
March 18, 2012, 02:09 PM
Well, Irie has high technique and mental, so he could deal with the counters.

Still, Fuji<Irie<Yukimura. Yukimura would defeat them both, but I see Fuji in the future being able to surpass both Irie and Yukimura.

Fair enough if we're judging Fuji's future improvement since its not a far off conclusion considering all the top guys are aiming for Tezuka.
Also lifts Kaidoh's chances of becoming a real top player since I believe his aim is now Tezuka after their tie-break.

LetalHawk
March 18, 2012, 02:23 PM
Fair enough if we're judging Fuji's future improvement since its not a far off conclusion considering all the top guys are aiming for Tezuka.
Also lifts Kaidoh's chances of becoming a real top player since I believe his aim is now Tezuka after their tie-break.

Guys with hidden potential are unbeliveable strong in the future, I hope Fuji surpasses Irie and Yukimura and Kaidoh at least becomes good enough to defeat a player like Tachibana in the future (I would be surprised if that happens tough).

Airgrimes
March 18, 2012, 03:38 PM
Guys with hidden potential are unbeliveable strong in the future, I hope Fuji surpasses Irie and Yukimura and Kaidoh at least becomes good enough to defeat a player like Tachibana in the future (I would be surprised if that happens tough).

Its one of those things. This question really depends on how much Konomi will troll us.
He trolled us by having the 11-19 BJB take over arc happen at the same time, and didnt necessarily explore matches enough meaning we didnt see much improvement with the biggest trolling being 2nd Court being instantaneously replaced in the turn of a page.

Had he shown 8 random players of the BJB one-by-one defeat the 2nd in a proper shuffle we would have known everyone's improvement level better perhaps. Since 2nd Court are definetely better than the 3rd Court players since Tanegashima did say from 5th Court onwards going up a court is like going up an entirely different skill level.

Ah well. Fuji's improvement is intensely anticipated I guess. Praying he faces a Top 5 member. Praying he becomes better than Sanada. Just Praying.

LetalHawk
March 19, 2012, 07:05 AM
Its one of those things. This question really depends on how much Konomi will troll us.
He trolled us by having the 11-19 BJB take over arc happen at the same time, and didnt necessarily explore matches enough meaning we didnt see much improvement with the biggest trolling being 2nd Court being instantaneously replaced in the turn of a page.

Had he shown 8 random players of the BJB one-by-one defeat the 2nd in a proper shuffle we would have known everyone's improvement level better perhaps. Since 2nd Court are definetely better than the 3rd Court players since Tanegashima did say from 5th Court onwards going up a court is like going up an entirely different skill level.

Ah well. Fuji's improvement is intensely anticipated I guess. Praying he faces a Top 5 member. Praying he becomes better than Sanada. Just Praying.

Just hope you're right and Fuji surpasses Sanada. That would be some hell of improvement.

And yeah, second court could definitely defeat everybody from the old 3rd court except Irie, so the losers improved a great deal. I hope in the next episode of the anime we'll see things like how Sanada hurt his eye and how much they improved (at least we will know how strong they're right now).

FrostyMouse
March 19, 2012, 09:26 AM
Just hope you're right and Fuji surpasses Sanada. That would be some hell of improvement.

And yeah, second court could definitely defeat everybody from the old 3rd court except Irie, so the losers improved a great deal. I hope in the next episode of the anime we'll see things like how Sanada hurt his eye and how much they improved (at least we will know how strong they're right now).

Anime is not canon. There are a few seemingly canon moments that Konomi stuck in, such as those stat sheets, but that's it.

mystictapion
March 20, 2012, 12:36 PM
Well, in my opinion, IIRC, Inui said long ago that Fuji was the one he wasn't able to collect data, which may mean that he could not read it.

And about the conversation between Tezuka and Fuji, Fuji had said he had no feeling while playing tennis, which may mean that he does not have emotions while playing. Thus, going by the logic, I think that techniques such as SKnK will not work.

SKnK can be sealed by Fuji in 2 ways: The fact that Fuji can not be predicted or if Fuji closes your eyes.
So if Irie tries to read emotions, it will not work. and with KnS, I believe that Fuji must have some way to seal it, for example, trying to hide shikakus.

Now, the only question is to know how much Irie has been hiding your power and technique.

Summarizing, I think it'd be a great match with chances of 50% of one of them win!!

LetalHawk
March 20, 2012, 04:24 PM
Well, in my opinion, IIRC, Inui said long ago that Fuji was the one he wasn't able to collect data, which may mean that he could not read it.

And about the conversation between Tezuka and Fuji, Fuji had said he had no feeling while playing tennis, which may mean that he does not have emotions while playing. Thus, going by the logic, I think that techniques such as SKnK will not work.

SKnK can be sealed by Fuji in 2 ways: The fact that Fuji can not be predicted or if Fuji closes your eyes.
So if Irie tries to read emotions, it will not work. and with KnS, I believe that Fuji must have some way to seal it, for example, trying to hide shikakus.

Now, the only question is to know how much Irie has been hiding your power and technique.

Summarizing, I think it'd be a great match with chances of 50% of one of them win!!


Well, Atobe Kingdom can't be sealed, but Fuji could hide his external blind spots, but not his internal ones, even Atobe could take games from Yukimura using Atobe Kingdom. No matter how strong you are, you always have absolutely blind spots, there's no way to hide them. It's skeleton level vision.

And I don't know, if Irie goes all out, Fuji would lose. Further in the series, I see Fuji surpassing Irie and probably reaching Tezuka's level or even beating him.

Airgrimes
March 20, 2012, 05:00 PM
And I don't know, if Irie goes all out, Fuji would lose. Further in the series, I see Fuji surpassing Irie and probably reaching Tezuka's level or even beating him.

I see a draw. Despite Fuji being the most popular character, all the hard work Konomi has done with making Tezuka the ultimate, I see him giving us a beautiful plot armoured draw. Which I think we will all actually enjoy haha.

LetalHawk
March 21, 2012, 12:08 PM
I hope he gives the most amazing match that Shin POT will ever have (full of DBZ moves of course)

Airgrimes
March 21, 2012, 02:12 PM
I hope he gives the most amazing match that Shin POT will ever have (full of DBZ moves of course)

Since amazing matches dont come often in SPoT, Im hoping that they come from an Echizen Ryoga match at least haha.

To be honest, Im hoping Irie Kanata gets justice for his next match w/out a complete trolling like when he wiped Akiba Koyo.
And also, Byoudouin Houou. I would be devestated if we got a quick few page kill for him.

Since its inevitable that we will see each High Schooler play a match ONLY just once besides plot armored Irie, Tokugawa and Oni.

Fuji Shusuke
March 22, 2012, 08:04 AM
If it's Fuji, you know that he will make a cool shot. So far he is in the No Bounce Club (funny how top 3 of Seigaku has no bounce shots), hit cord balls with eyes closed, and can manipulate the ball to do all sorts of wacky stuff. Now what is next?

Airgrimes
March 22, 2012, 02:42 PM
Yeah the new Top 3.
I remember it saying though the initial Top3 was Tezuka, Fuji and Inui prior to Ryoma.

But yeah, Yanagi, Shiraishi and Krauser are also members of the No Bounce club lol.

Since Irie isnt fodder Im sticking with Irie up until we see Fuji REALLY mess an opponent up or have a HACKER THAN HACK technique. coz 6th Counter isnt all that hack. It only works against Cord balls :/
5th Counter can be challenged after a few tries. It Shiraishi and Niou like 3 games so Irie wont struggle.

LetalHawk
March 22, 2012, 03:23 PM
Yeah the new Top 3.
I remember it saying though the initial Top3 was Tezuka, Fuji and Inui prior to Ryoma.

But yeah, Yanagi, Shiraishi and Krauser are also members of the No Bounce club lol.

Since Irie isnt fodder Im sticking with Irie up until we see Fuji REALLY mess an opponent up or have a HACKER THAN HACK technique. coz 6th Counter isnt all that hack. It only works against Cord balls :/
5th Counter can be challenged after a few tries. It Shiraishi and Niou like 3 games so Irie wont struggle.

Irie would return it faster as he is stronger mentally than Shiraishi and Niou and could probably watch through it and return ir after a few tries.

If Fuji faces and beats a top 5, and I think it should happen since he is the most popular character and because Konomi gave him 0 screentime, then I'll think he could defeat Irie.

Airgrimes
March 22, 2012, 03:57 PM
Irie would return it faster as he is stronger mentally than Shiraishi and Niou and could probably watch through it and return ir after a few tries.

If Fuji faces and beats a top 5, and I think it should happen since he is the most popular character and because Konomi gave him 0 screentime, then I'll think he could defeat Irie.

Sort of Agreed. We dont know where Irie stands between the likes of Byouduin and Tohno. He could be weaker than Tohno or could be above him.
Since I think im gonna have to say now after seeing No.s 9 and 10, That its the Top 8 who are above the rest of the camp.
Unless Tohno/Kimijima are a doubles team and dont stand out as at least definetely above Yamato level then they will get pushed back from the Top 6 lol.

Although Ochi is understandably Top 10 Singles wise. He is practically an AMAZING Ootori. His serve is even faster, and his technique, mental and stamina is amazing meaning if his serve is returned he will still kick ass. If Ootori could do this he would have been amongst the best.
Mouri doesnt seem above Date to me... Maybe its just me...

Its really hard to tier the Top 20.

ashore
March 22, 2012, 04:22 PM
Irie would win!

did you look at his pentagon stats in the manga, he exceeds the pentagon!(is these areas) he has

7 technique,
7 mental,
6 speed.

fuji is a genius , but this guy is super good. I will say fuji does have his counters, but irie can feel his opponents emotions or
maybe into their thoughts. You may have the ability to understand how an ability works, and therefore counter it. not always the case.


Even number 2 ranked U-17 said he wouldn't want to play irie.(but he could probably beat him)


@leta, imo yukimura can prevent Atobe from taking games, Using Eye powers, before Atobe can use his AtobeKingdom.

Airgrimes
March 23, 2012, 02:36 PM
Irie would win!

did you look at his pentagon stats in the manga, he exceeds the pentagon!(is these areas) he has

7 technique,
7 mental,
6 speed.

fuji is a genius , but this guy is super good. I will say fuji does have his counters, but irie can feel his opponents emotions or
maybe into their thoughts. You may have the ability to understand how an ability works, and therefore counter it. not always the case.


Even number 2 ranked U-17 said he wouldn't want to play irie.(but he could probably beat him)


@leta, imo yukimura can prevent Atobe from taking games, Using Eye powers, before Atobe can use his AtobeKingdom.

Lol, why are we suddenly saying Yukimura has eye powers? Its just Yips. He makes the opponent feel they can no longer play. No eye jutsu involved lmao.

ashore
March 23, 2012, 03:25 PM
well he has to look into the person's eyes to make it happen. remember the blind folded guy u-17 ? he was blindfolded. (yukimura cant use his technique unless he can look into their eyes.)

yukimura has to hit the ball and damage his blind fold. then he can "relieve him of his senses"

do you recall yukimura, looking at echizen at the finals, and saying what good eyes he has?
eyes can be windows to the soul. and that's how yukimura does it. I dont make this stuff up
you can tell that there may be susperstitions about using the eye, maybe konomi put that in his manga,
in other anime's people have eye powers, maybe a japanese native can talk about folklore and eyes.

it's also arguably how ochi uses his "death glare" on atobe. ( not 100% sure until the next chapters that explain ochi's ability to make people doubt themselves)

Yukimura does make people have yips but it's because he can transfer that feeling through the eyes. the word jutsu, I was
being sarcastic, trying to relate to naruto seres.

LetalHawk
March 23, 2012, 03:58 PM
well he has to look into the person's eyes to make it happen. remember the blind folded guy u-17 ? he was blindfolded. (yukimura cant use his technique unless he can look into their eyes.)

yukimura has to hit the ball and damage his blind fold. then he can "relieve him of his senses"

do you recall yukimura, looking at echizen at the finals, and saying what good eyes he has?
eyes can be windows to the soul. and that's how yukimura does it. I dont make this stuff up
you can tell that there may be susperstitions about using the eye, maybe konomi put that in his manga,
in other anime's people have eye powers, maybe a japanese native can talk about folklore and eyes.

it's also arguably how ochi uses his "death glare" on atobe. ( not 100% sure until the next chapters that explain ochi's ability to make people doubt themselves)

Yukimura does make people have yips but it's because he can transfer that feeling through the eyes. the word jutsu, I was
being sarcastic, trying to relate to naruto seres.


Of course he can, Fuwa was blindfolded but when he removed the bandages, he couldn't see. Even if he is not looking to Yukimura's eyes, Yips is useful, it doesn't matter if the opponent isn't looking to Yuki's eyes.

And about Ochi's Death Glare (lol I came up with that), I think it's just mindfucking Atobe, since Ochi's mental is really strong, he is probably trying to break down Atobe, but I'm sure he'll overcome due to his amazing mental.

ashore
March 23, 2012, 04:31 PM
it's debatable, i re read the chapter, i still stick to my position.

one doesn't have to look into yukimura's eyes but if he looks at yours.. bam.
why do you think yukimura damaged the blindfold for? what is the point of the blindfold? (show superior u-17 strength only?)
when the blindfold was removed yips can be transfered.(my theroy)
also fuwa's point about reflecting through the eyes... another seeming like another eye technique (common theme).
ochi's death glare (common theme).

all these common techniques seem to transfer through the eyes. have to wait and see for further explanation.

LetalHawk
March 23, 2012, 04:33 PM
it's debatable, i re read the chapter, i still stick to my position.

one doesn't have to look into yukimura's eyes but if he looks at yours.. bam.
why do you think yukimura damaged the blindfold for? what is the point of the blindfold? (show superior u-17 strength only?)
when the blindfold was removed yips can be transfered.(my theroy)
also fuwa's point about reflecting through the eyes... another seeming like another eye technique (common theme).
ochi's death glare (common theme).

all these common techniques seem to transfer through the eyes. have to wait and see for further explanation.

I think that Yukimura stealed his vision when he was blindfolded also, the moment he removed them he couldn't see. My theory is that he stealed his vision when they were rallying and Fuwa was blindfolded, but he didn't realize until he took out the bandages.

Airgrimes
March 24, 2012, 07:26 AM
I think that Yukimura stealed his vision when he was blindfolded also, the moment he removed them he couldn't see. My theory is that he stealed his vision when they were rallying and Fuwa was blindfolded, but he didn't realize until he took out the bandages.

Perfectly said. Otherwise Konomi would have said by now that it is an eye technique. Although Yukimura is a relatively new player to the series as we only saw him play at the VERY end of Part I. His powers have been explained now. Its not an eye technique.

---------- Post added at 06:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 AM ----------


well he has to look into the person's eyes to make it happen. remember the blind folded guy u-17 ? he was blindfolded. (yukimura cant use his technique unless he can look into their eyes.)

yukimura has to hit the ball and damage his blind fold. then he can "relieve him of his senses"

do you recall yukimura, looking at echizen at the finals, and saying what good eyes he has?
eyes can be windows to the soul. and that's how yukimura does it. I dont make this stuff up
you can tell that there may be susperstitions about using the eye, maybe konomi put that in his manga,
in other anime's people have eye powers, maybe a japanese native can talk about folklore and eyes.

it's also arguably how ochi uses his "death glare" on atobe. ( not 100% sure until the next chapters that explain ochi's ability to make people doubt themselves)

Yukimura does make people have yips but it's because he can transfer that feeling through the eyes. the word jutsu, I was
being sarcastic, trying to relate to naruto seres.
Yh I know I was kidding about jutsu too. But Yukimura wasnt using an eye technique.
And its extremely lame that Ochi has to walk past his opponent during change over to use his technique. All Atobe has to do is walk the other side of the net during change over to avoid it. I hope that Ochi's eye nonsense is better than what we have seen.

Fayte
March 25, 2012, 12:09 AM
Fuji vs Irie

Clown Irie wins: 7-5
Serious Irie wins 6-0


Yukimura would defeat them both

Excuse me?


Fuji's improvement is intensely anticipated I guess. Praying he faces a Top 5 member. Praying he becomes better than Sanada. Just Praying.

Keep dreamin.

Fuji Shusuke
March 25, 2012, 01:44 AM
Clown Irie wins: 7-5
Serious Irie wins 6-0



Excuse me?



Keep dreamin.

:( i dont like you *cries in corner*

Airgrimes
March 25, 2012, 04:55 AM
Clown Irie wins: 7-5
Serious Irie wins 6-0



Excuse me?



Keep dreamin.

At least keep in who the quotes came from so the person who said it cant hide away haha.

And yeah, Ill keep dreamin bro

---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 AM ----------



Excuse me?



Yukimura currently will kick Fuji's ass. Why Excuse me?
We have been shown that even Closed Eye cant save you from Yips after Fuwa got his ass kicked.

LetalHawk
March 25, 2012, 07:28 AM
Yukimura is stronger than Fuji. Yukimura returns all of Fuji's counters, Fuji then gets bageled.

And I think serious Yukimura vs serious Irie, Yukimura wins. Why? No shot can get past him, Irie, don't matter how serious he gets, Yukimura will return them all. So Yukimura would have no problems dealing with it, and I would say Irie gets Yipped.

Irie may start losing to Yukimura with his acting, but even if he stops acting suddenly, Yukimura scores a point and Irie has no other choice but play seriously, but still Yukimura would kick his ass.

Fuji Shusuke
March 25, 2012, 10:26 AM
I reckon Yukimura could beat Fuji but I'm not sure if he can return Kirin Otoshi, Hecatoncheires no Monban or Hoshi Hanabi.

Kaoz
March 25, 2012, 10:30 AM
I reckon Yukimura could beat Fuji but I'm not sure if he can return Kirin Otoshi, Hecatoncheires no Monban or Hoshi Hanabi.

He returned COOL Drive casually from the baseline, and Niou returned Heca, so I don't see why Yukimura would have trouble with either. Not touching Hoshi Hanabi.

LetalHawk
March 25, 2012, 10:33 AM
He returned COOL Drive casually from the baseline, and Niou returned Heca, so I don't see why Yukimura would have trouble with either. Not touching Hoshi Hanabi.

I think he would also return Hoshi Hanabi.

Fuji Shusuke
March 25, 2012, 01:27 PM
If Yukimura has very good reaction time, then he might return Kirin Otoshi. I agree with him being able to return Heca. However, Hoshi Hanabi would be a hard one. If he doesn't hit cord balls then he's fine. But if he does hit one, Yukimura would have to find a way to beat what I presume, only 150-200 milliseconds of opportunity (I theorised that Hoshi Hanabi is only in range to be returned for 0.15-0.2 seconds). You can only return Hoshi Hanabi when it is falling or on the rise from the bounce, and that amount of time is so little.

ashore
March 25, 2012, 02:00 PM
well this isn't really a yukimura vs irie or fuji. but my input.

of course yukimura will own fuji. He has a reputation to see through techniques and returning most offensive techniques and his base skill level , are better than fuji.
its arguable that i think there are videos of the the semi finals round of the nationals that rikkai saw. so i think yukmura saw all
of seikagu's and shintenhouji's tecniiques. just seeing them once, he can return it. also there may have been video of the
kantou finals of echizen vs sanada. we know that cool drive if it hits the opponent's racket the ball could fly off the racket.

kinda werid tokugawa got duped by it in the anime and yukimura didnt. but the point is it my theory is if yukimura already seen
a technique once (in video or in the court) , if he saw it before he can return it easy. i have no proof on the video part though.

LetalHawk
March 25, 2012, 02:45 PM
well this isn't really a yukimura vs irie or fuji. but my input.

of course yukimura will own fuji. He has a reputation to see through techniques and returning most offensive techniques and his base skill level , are better than fuji.
its arguable that i think there are videos of the the semi finals round of the nationals that rikkai saw. so i think yukmura saw all
of seikagu's and shintenhouji's tecniiques. just seeing them once, he can return it. also there may have been video of the
kantou finals of echizen vs sanada. we know that cool drive if it hits the opponent's racket the ball could fly off the racket.

kinda werid tokugawa got duped by it in the anime and yukimura didnt. but the point is it my theory is if yukimura already seen
a technique once (in video or in the court) , if he saw it before he can return it easy. i have no proof on the video part though.

Yeah, he only needs to see it once and then he returns it or directly returns it without failing.

Fayte
March 25, 2012, 10:41 PM
Yukimura currently will kick Fuji's ass. Why Excuse me?
We have been shown that even Closed Eye cant save you from Yips after Fuwa got his ass kicked.

Where on earth are you getting these ideas from? You mean because God-mode Tezuka killed Fuji means Yukimura would too? Hate to break it to you pal, but Yukimura would have gotten slaughtered by Tezuka the same way Fuji did. And you are REALLY comparing Irie with "Poop stain" Fuwa? Wow. Now I've seen everything.

If Black Aura Sanada BROKE OUT OF THE YIPS (Which every Yukimura fan seems to forget), that alone is proof that Yips is directly related to the ability level of the player (like every other technique in the series). Sanada's skill level rose dramatically because of Black Aura, therefore he was too far above being influenced by the Yips. What makes you think Irie isn't already AT that level?

mystictapion
March 26, 2012, 11:44 AM
Sorry, but I still didn't swallow as Yukimura returned Rai, Tezuka probably has more power than him and he got it once. And please, you don't say that to return Rai isn't about power, because to return a shot with the handle of the racket needs power too... ¬¬

Airgrimes
March 26, 2012, 01:30 PM
Where on earth are you getting these ideas from? You mean because God-mode Tezuka killed Fuji means Yukimura would too? Hate to break it to you pal, but Yukimura would have gotten slaughtered by Tezuka the same way Fuji did. And you are REALLY comparing Irie with "Poop stain" Fuwa? Wow. Now I've seen everything.


This is where we realize your reading a different manga. Konomi gave Yukimura the power that he can see through every shot. Not me. If NO technique can successfully take out Yukimura then tell me what Fuji could use?
Yukimura has returned Drive A, B, Cool Drive, Samurai Drive, Big Bang, Lightning, Wind, Fire and MANY more so the Counters will do what to him? Not even phase him.
5th Counter 2 games at best since it took Shiraishi 4.

Closed Eye doesnt work as shown against Fuwa. The counters will get defeated within 2 games maximum. You also forget that 6th Counter Hoshi Hanabi only works against a Cord Ball as far as we know otherwise he would have used it against Tezuka.

Therefore Yukimura will defeat Fuji no matter what.
Im not comparing Fuwa and Fuji but they used the same technique. Its that simple with this series. Fuji is my 2nd favourite character so Im not even trolling here but Fuji is below several other MSers as far as we have been shown, its not just Yukimura who will defeat him.

Also, Nationals!Tezuka would eventually lose to Yukimura do to the pain in his left arm same with Sanada. OBVIOUSLY Im not comparing TMnK Tezuka to Yukimura. Tezuka is the strongest Schooler of Japan as far as we have been shown. I didnt even use that as an example so that is just totally irrelevant bringing current Tezuka into this.

But unless you can tell me a technique that Fuji has that will defeat Yukimura for SIX games which right now he has NONE, then Yukimura > Fuji. Im shocked there is a debate that Fuji could currently defeat Yukimura.

As far as im concerned, Fuji cant beat Sanada, Yukimura, Shiraishi (w/out golden arm weight can beat 5th Counter without a Cord ball), Tooyama and unless Closed Eye counters AK, Atobe will beat Fuji too.

LetalHawk
March 26, 2012, 02:49 PM
Of course It's crazy to say that Fuji will defeat Yukimura. Look, evolved triple counters won't work as Yukimura will return them first try easily, like fourth counter. Fifth counter would be also returned by Yukimura first try, he saw Fuji using it during national finals, and due to him being able to see through every shot and his amazing ability to understand a special move the moment he sees it, he would return Hecatoncheires without hitting a cord ball, thus Fuji wouldn't be able to hit Hoshi Hanabi. Furthermore, Yukimura is stronger overall, has more power, speed, strength and probably is stronger mentally.

Irie is also amazing and his true power might be insane. But, even if he is able to see through Yips, and isn't affected, that doesn't mean Yukimura will lose. As I said, watching through every shot means that Irie, no matter if he gets fully serious, won't take points as Yukimura will return his shots and goes into a long rally, and maybe he could be yipped in the rally and unable to continue since you have to score against Yukimura, and I don't see Irie hitting shots past Yukimura, no matter how hard or fast.

I see that Yukimura would win 6-2 or. 6-1 depending if Irie can break out of the Yips.

And Sanada with BA is probably stronger than Irie, don't know how Sanada would lose against Irie right now. Rai, Black Aura, and maybe some new technique are enough weapons to face Irie. That he could have destroyed Atobe, doesn't mean that hewould defeat Sanada, Echizen, Yukimura and Tezuka, who are all above Irie and Atobe. Of course, Tnk Echizen and TnK would destroy Irie.

Fayte
March 26, 2012, 03:16 PM
This is where we realize your reading a different manga. Konomi gave Yukimura the power that he can see through every shot. Not me. If NO technique can successfully take out Yukimura then tell me what Fuji could use?

Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought your logic concluded:

Yukimura > Fuji/Fuwa, Therefore Yukimura > Irie

You did say Yukimura would beat both Fuji and Irie (which, throwing in Irie is pretty silly considering how talented he is).


Yukimura has returned Drive A, B, Cool Drive, Samurai Drive, Big Bang, Lightning, Wind, Fire and MANY more so the Counters will do what to him? Not even phase him.

*claps*
Welcome to every single person in 1st string. Including Irie.


Closed Eye doesnt work as shown against Fuwa.

Fuwa is fodder.


Therefore Yukimura will defeat Fuji no matter what.

I don't argue against this point. I am arguing against you saying Yukimura would beat Irie.



Irie is also amazing and his true power might be insane. But, even if he is able to see through Yips, and isn't affected, that doesn't mean Yukimura will lose. As I said, watching through every shot means that Irie, no matter if he gets fully serious, won't take points as Yukimura will return his shots and goes into a long rally, and maybe he could be yipped in the rally and unable to continue since you have to score against Yukimura, and I don't see Irie hitting shots past Yukimura, no matter how hard or fast.

I see that Yukimura would win 6-2 or. 6-1 depending if Irie can break out of the Yips.

Wow, you really need to understand the way manga works. There is no way in hell Yukimura is beating Irie 6-1 or 6-2. ALL POT TECHNIQUES are the same. There is no difference between Yips, Rai, TmK, etc. ANY technique in this series has ONLY and EVERYTHING to do with ability level. For example:

If Sanada is level 10, and Yukimura is level 11, and Tezuka is level 8, then that means Rai will always work on Tezuka, and never work on Yukimura. It doesn't matter what technique it is, or how broken and overpowered it is. If someone is at a greater ability level, no technique will work for very long (if at all). That's the way manga works, for the purpose of growth and suspense. If Yukimura is level 11, and Irie is level 14, Yips would NOT work on Irie. His overall skill level is too high in comparison to Yukimura's. Sanada's ability level exceeded Yukimura's when he obtained Black Aura, which is why he instantly broke out of Yips. He's too good for that now. It is simple logic, really. Unless Yukimura achieved a new level of skill, I don't see him doing anything against a serious Irie.


Of course, Tnk Echizen and TnK would destroy Irie.

Again, depends on ability level.

Airgrimes
March 26, 2012, 04:00 PM
I am arguing against you saying Yukimura would beat Irie.



I got carried away lol. Also, we dont know Yukimura's Technique stat. I see them having a good match. Even w/out showing us improvement, Yukimura is Top 10 level.
Im saying this coz Singles wise, he would defeat Mouri and Ochi.
It would be a good match between Yukimura and Irie. Thats what we have been shown by Konomi thus far.

But going by evidence wise, Yukimura should beat Irie. Since Yukimura is unstoppable w/out an Aura against him which is what we have been shown.
Irie has no aura... As awesome as he is. Although we do know that he pissed all over Atobe and wasnt even at full power.
Man. Its tough. for me that is.



*claps*
Welcome to every single person in 1st string. Including Irie.


Not quite. The 1st String is No.s 1-20. If you see Fuji having his counters broken by Fuwa, Date, BAn, Mutsu's, Hakamada, Taira, HAra Akiba and Mitsuya then... I dont get your views on the manga at all.
Current Fuji would probably win against all of them. Even Mouri and Ochi dont look like they would defeat Fuji singles wise haha.



Wow, you really need to understand the way manga works. There is no way in hell Yukimura is beating Irie 6-1 or 6-2. ALL POT TECHNIQUES are the same. There is no difference between Yips, Rai, TmK, etc. ANY technique in this series has ONLY and EVERYTHING to do with ability level. For example:

If Sanada is level 10, and Yukimura is level 11, and Tezuka is level 8, then that means Rai will always work on Tezuka, and never work on Yukimura. It doesn't matter what technique it is, or how broken and overpowered it is. If someone is at a greater ability level, no technique will work for very long (if at all). That's the way manga works, for the purpose of growth and suspense. If Yukimura is level 11, and Irie is level 14, Yips would NOT work on Irie. His overall skill level is too high in comparison to Yukimura's. Sanada's ability level exceeded Yukimura's when he obtained Black Aura, which is why he instantly broke out of Yips. He's too good for that now. It is simple logic, really. Unless Yukimura achieved a new level of skill, I don't see him doing anything against a serious Irie.
Your saying Irie cant get yipped at all??
No proof. Your theory makes sense but I still think Irie will briefly get yipped. Although his mind fuck tennis which is so entertaining would easily get him out of it.

(I dont feel the anime did him justice against Atobe. They didnt even put emphasis on the ''JUST KIDDING'' moment :( perhaps fav. moment of the series).




Again, depends on ability level.

LOL. Dont go too far. We all have our favourite character but its insane to say Irie is TMnK level haha.

LetalHawk
March 26, 2012, 04:05 PM
LOL. Dont go too far. We all have our favourite character but its insane to say Irie is TMnK level haha.

Perfectly said. Personally, Echizen's insane improvement we'll see in future chapters, him being the only MS able to hit 10 balls and being able to at least be at Oni's and Tokugawa's level, that, combined with TnK, it's just beyond godlike. If Echizen could activate TnK willingly, I'm pretty sure he would beat Irie with no problems.

Sure it depends on ability level, but, when the best MS in the camp right now activates TnK, Irie won't stand a chance. Echizen's TNK shots at full power are the fastest shots. Mach would be childs play for TnK Echizen to return, thus remember that nobody saw the first serve Echizen hit against Yukimura while in TnK.

If Echizen, now, can activate it willingly, and hits as strong as he can with TnK, Irie won't be able to even react. Or at least be running around the court until he gets exhausted quickly.

So to sum up, Shin TnK Echizen >> Irie.

Kaoz
March 26, 2012, 06:05 PM
Unless Yukimura achieved a new level of skill, I don't see him doing anything against a serious Irie.

If you only mean whether Yukimura improved since he played Echizen and Sanada, I would say he did.

When you look at the way Yips works against Echizen/Sanada and how it works against Fuwa, you will notice that both Echizen and Fuwa had visions (Sanada probably had too, but it wasn't shown). The difference being that Echizen (and probably Sanada as well) saw visions of themselves losing, which results in them struggling and eventually activating TnK and BA respectevily, whereas Fuwa sees himself breaking through Yukimura's tennis and collapses, thinking that he's won and showing no resistance.

In other words, whereas with the old version of Yips the opponents tried to break out of it, the new version makes them think they've already won and so they stop trying.

Fayte
March 27, 2012, 07:13 AM
But going by evidence wise, Yukimura should beat Irie. Since Yukimura is unstoppable w/out an Aura against him which is what we have been shown.
Irie has no aura... As awesome as he is. Although we do know that he pissed all over Atobe and wasnt even at full power.


Again, you're putting the emphasis on techniques and auras. Those things mean nothing if the opponent is just better than you.





Your saying Irie cant get yipped at all??


No, I'm saying IF Irie is at a higher ability level than Yukimura, then Yips will not work on him. The same way Rai didn't work on Yukimura.





LOL. Dont go too far. We all have our favourite character but its insane to say Irie is TMnK level haha.

You're acting like just because you have TMnK, it means you're automatically at a higher skill level than everyone in the series. Not so. Had Echizen used TMnK against Kazuya BEFORE he improved to be able to hit 10 balls, he would have lost. Kazuya was expanses better than Echizen at the time. Also, if you believe TMnK puts you at a fixed ability level no matter who achieves it, then you believe Tezuka with TMnK is on the same level as Echizen with TMnK, which I do not believe they are. So just because someone has TMnK does not mean they are instantly the best player in the world. It has everything to do with your base skill level first.

mystictapion
March 27, 2012, 08:19 AM
No, I'm saying IF Irie is at a higher ability level than Yukimura, then Yips will not work on him. The same way Rai didn't work on Yukimura.

I'd like someone explain to me why Yukimura easily returned Rai and Tezuka don't. I'm sure Tezuka's arms are stronger, sorry but Yukimura looks like so fragile and he can understand every shot, but if he hasn't power, it's useless... take like example Kabaji, he knows Jirou's technique but it isn't flexible enough to execute it.

ashore
March 27, 2012, 12:26 PM
Probably because once he see an offensive move once he can return anything. that's just part of of his special skills. technically rai should be too fast to return, that's the way the manga writer wants yukimura's strength to be.

Airgrimes
March 27, 2012, 12:30 PM
Again, you're putting the emphasis on techniques and auras. Those things mean nothing if the opponent is just better than you.

Yukimura is significantly better than Nationals!Ryoma w/out TMnK.
Yukimura walks over Sanada w/out Black Aura...
Aura clearly means everything here.





No, I'm saying IF Irie is at a higher ability level than Yukimura, then Yips will not work on him. The same way Rai didn't work on Yukimura.

Fair enough.



You're acting like just because you have TMnK, it means you're automatically at a higher skill level than everyone in the series. Not so. Had Echizen used TMnK against Kazuya BEFORE he improved to be able to hit 10 balls, he would have lost.

...You somehow feel Tokugawa is better than the boost that TMnK provides? He is obviously not at an unreachable level after Byoudouin's shot humbled him.
Tokugawa is amazing but lets not get carried away with hype. Look at No.s 11-19, Kaji, 1st Court, all examples of hype that wasnt that great.
Im not saying Tokugawa is as bad as them since we know he is amazing, but TMnK!Ryoma would defeat him as far as we have been shown.
Tokugawa couldnt return Cool Drive first time while Yukimura did so with ease. So therefore I believe its fair to say TMnK!Ryoma would defeat Tokugawa.




Kazuya was expanses better than Echizen at the time. Also, if you believe TMnK puts you at a fixed ability level no matter who achieves it, then you believe Tezuka with TMnK is on the same level as Echizen with TMnK, which I do not believe they are. So just because someone has TMnK does not mean they are instantly the best player in the world. It has everything to do with your base skill level first.
This didnt come from me. I never said it puts you at a fixed ability.
Im saying it gives you a plot powered amazing boost. A boost that Im afraid Tokugawa is likely unable to reach.
Tokugawa, Irie, Oni, Byoudouin, Ryoga and Tanegashima cant be that good. Otherwise whats the point in hinting there will be Overseas tournaments later in the series?
I believe TMnK!Tezuka > TMnK!Ryoma although the 10ball improvement may change that. Never said TMnK makes everyone the same.
Konomi has made it clear by saying only Nanjiro could activate it in terms of Japanese players.

It gives you a boost. Not a fixed limit. I also didnt say it makes you best in the world, but immediately puts you to the highest section of the Tier list in terms of the Japanese School players.
If your reading the manga correctly you would know that if Ryoma hits a serve that nobody in the court was able to see, then its clear how amazing the boost TMnK provides.
We have no reason to believe Tokugawa can defeat TMnK!Tezuka although when watching him, he and Tanegashima were relaxed compared to the rest of the camp. But it was acknowledged that Tezuka was greatly holding back.

---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 AM ----------


I'd like someone explain to me why Yukimura easily returned Rai and Tezuka don't. I'm sure Tezuka's arms are stronger, sorry but Yukimura looks like so fragile and he can understand every shot, but if he hasn't power, it's useless... take like example Kabaji, he knows Jirou's technique but it isn't flexible enough to execute it.

Nah. You assumed that, but after Yukimura effortlessly returned Big Bang, we knew he was more than meets the eye. Its more than possible Yukimura is as strong as Tezuka. Or even stronger physically. Its just coz his Seiyu is a female your saying that right hahahaha.

LetalHawk
March 27, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yukimura is probably the strongest in terms of power. Altough his appearance doesn't hint that, he returned Yama Arashi and Rai, so there's no power shot that he can't return. Pretty sure he could return Byodouin's serve.

mystictapion
March 27, 2012, 02:04 PM
Nah. You assumed that, but after Yukimura effortlessly returned Big Bang, we knew he was more than meets the eye. Its more than possible Yukimura is as strong as Tezuka. Or even stronger physically. Its just coz his Seiyu is a female your saying that right hahahaha.

Roflmao. "All right, boya!".

But seriously, I think it is more technique than power that make him to be capable to return power shots.

Airgrimes
March 27, 2012, 04:23 PM
Roflmao. "All right, boya!".

But seriously, I think it is more technique than power that make him to be capable to return power shots.

This series hasnt been quite clear with that as of yet. But things should be cleared up soon since Duke looks like a Power Player and I expect an MSer to replace him and we know it wont be Ishida or Kawamura so it will likely be an MSer that isnt a Power Player that defeats him which will hopefully show us how the intensely powerful shots are sometimes easily returned.

ashore
March 27, 2012, 04:33 PM
yea auras make the player win, but its the base skills that count. if tezuka vs ryoma both in Perfection mode, tezuka will win. because I speculate perfection mode is a multiplier for base skills. tezuka stronger than echizen w/o perfection and with perfection face to face. now matching someone w/o perfection vs non perfection mode mean one person will overpowr the other. i 'm writing perfection as tnk.

so when u compare yukmura vs rymoa in perfection mode, yukimura still stronger due to base skills. now who won the match of course ryoma did , he got a boost with tnK to over come his limits.

also i theorize that's why ryoma doesn't want to use that made unles he has to and that he can indeed acivate it if he wants. He probably wants to up his base skills. speed, strength, stamina, endurance, etc. can't relie on TnK forever.

EDIT: I already posted a couple reasons why fuji woudl lose but another is because fuji is not a top player in teh pot 1 series.

atobe, tazuke, sanada, yukimura, and echizen are top tier players. fuji is not in that catagory and Irie owns atobe pretty good so if fuji not in the top or can defeat any of the top players no way he can win vs Irie, maybe close loss but he cant win.

Irie would sense fuji's thoughts on the new counters fuji makes and Irie would just counter them so fast, since he knows how they work.

Airgrimes
March 27, 2012, 05:56 PM
EDIT: I already posted a couple reasons why fuji woudl lose but another is because fuji is not a top player in teh pot 1 series.

atobe, tazuke, sanada, yukimura, and echizen are top tier players. fuji is not in that catagory and Irie owns atobe pretty good so if fuji not in the top or can defeat any of the top players no way he can win vs Irie, maybe close loss but he cant win.

Huh??
Your putting Atobe with Tezuka, Sanada and Yukimura?
Dont do that. Atobe is not out of Fuji's tier. At least Nationals!Atobe was not out of Nationals!Fuji's tier.
But Yukimura, Tezuka and Sanada are without doubt the best. Just the flash back of the 3 of them Three Years Prior To The Storyline hints that.
Fuji IS a Top player in the PoT 1 series.

---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------


yea auras make the player win, but its the base skills that count. if tezuka vs ryoma both in Perfection mode, tezuka will win. because I speculate perfection mode is a multiplier for base skills.
No shit sherlock lol.



tezuka stronger than echizen w/o perfection and with perfection face to face. now matching someone w/o perfection vs non perfection mode mean one person will overpowr the other. i 'm writing perfection as tnk.
I dont understand this.
Are you saying Tezuka > TMnK!Ryoma? (I hope not)



so when u compare yukmura vs rymoa in perfection mode, yukimura still stronger due to base skills. now who won the match of course ryoma did , he got a boost with tnK to over come his limits.
pfftt forget base skills. Once TMnK is activated, stats freaking multiply. Once TMnK is activated, the opponent has lost. Since we are yet to see TMnK Countered.



also i theorize that's why ryoma doesn't want to use that made unles he has to and that he can indeed acivate it if he wants. He probably wants to up his base skills. speed, strength, stamina, endurance, etc. can't relie on TnK forever.

Not impossible but I cant think why he didnt bring it out when he was recieving his ass-whooping from Tokugawa.

ashore
March 27, 2012, 06:02 PM
Huh??
Your putting Atobe with Tezuka, Sanada and Yukimura?
Dont do that. Atobe is not out of Fuji's tier. At least Nationals!Atobe was not out of Nationals!Fuji's tier.
But Yukimura, Tezuka and Sanada are without doubt the best. Just the flash back of the 3 of them Three Years Prior To The Storyline hints that.
Fuji IS a Top player in the PoT 1 series.

you just wrote that tezuka , sanada, and yukimura aare the best so would they are considered top tier, and fuji is below them therefore fuji isn't not top tier even in pot 1.

I may have jumped the gun on atobe by making him the level of sanada, yukimura, and tezuka.

his frozen world may have taken out sanada. but thanks to no good character opinions, like yukimura, who told sanada that he would have lost , even though it wasn't true. the fact that atobe was struggling to sanada and always trying to beat tezuka could means he's not top tier. I just recall people saying atobe was at national level. no one says fuji is.

atobe may not be at the top,so I'd put him close to fuji's level.

Kaoz
March 27, 2012, 06:23 PM
also i theorize that's why ryoma doesn't want to use that made unles he has to and that he can indeed acivate it if he wants. He probably wants to up his base skills. speed, strength, stamina, endurance, etc. can't relie on TnK forever.


Echizen didn't know he would remain in the camp after that match, there was no reason for him to hold back and not use TnK at that time. As far as we know he didn't though, which makes it somewhat likely that he couldn't.

Fayte
March 27, 2012, 11:38 PM
Yukimura is significantly better than Nationals!Ryoma w/out TMnK.
Yukimura walks over Sanada w/out Black Aura...
Aura clearly means everything here.


Yukimura was way higher in skill than Echizen during the Nationals, yes. However, TMnK boosted Echizen's skill to a level higher than Yukimura, which is why Yukimura lost. As for Sanada, they are equal in everything but Yips. Yips are what make Yukimura not tie Sanada. Aura means nothing, it is the skill level increase that the aura brings.


...You somehow feel Tokugawa is better than the boost that TMnK provides? TMnK!Ryoma would defeat him as far as we have been shown.
Tokugawa couldnt return Cool Drive first time while Yukimura did so with ease. So therefore I believe its fair to say TMnK!Ryoma would defeat Tokugawa. If your reading the manga correctly you would know that if Ryoma hits a serve that nobody in the court was able to see, then its clear how amazing the boost TMnK provides.


Did you forget that the very same serve you were amazed by was returned by Nationals Yukimura, and then proceeded to have an entire rally? Some boost. If Yukimura (who is significantly worse than Kazuya at this point) was able to rally completely fine against TMnK Echizen, Kazuya would have beat him. Not to mention the whole cool drive thing was completely on purpose.



his frozen world may have taken out sanada.

If you blindfold Sanada, tie one of his legs, and tell him not to use Lightning's teleport or Shadow's protection against insight, then yes.

mystictapion
March 28, 2012, 05:11 AM
If you blindfold Sanada, tie one of his legs, and tell him not to use Lightning's teleport or Shadow's protection against insight, then yes.

I'm sure that Atobe Kingdom can break Rai and In, Koori no Sekai no.

LetalHawk
March 28, 2012, 07:31 AM
Yukimura is stronger than nationals Echizen. Sanada is stronger than Atobe and nationals Tezuka, and Yukimura is stronger than nationals Echizen, Sanada, Atobe and nationals Tezuka.

Right now, being able to hit 10 balls, Echizen has surpassed Yukimura in base skill. Echizen would defeat Yukimura right now without TnK, just the fact that he can hit 10 balls and that he has Hyakuren and Saiki are more than enough reasons to defeat Yukimura. I don't think Yips would work on Echizen in case they play a rematch.

And of course, Tnk Tezuka>>Sanada, Yukimura and Atobe. Instead, I think Echizen and Tezuka are equal right now, we don't know how many balls Tezuka can hit, and Echizen improved greatly since he went to the mountains.

---------- Post added at 06:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 AM ----------


I'm sure that Atobe Kingdom can break Rai and In, Koori no Sekai no.

Or not, Sanada, even he can't move, could teleport to the spot where the ball is and return it, so AK wouldn't work against Rai. What prevents you from teleporting? Nothing, then AK, like Koori No Sekai, wouldn't work. Also, with BA, Sanada would crush Atobe 6-0.

Fuji Shusuke
March 28, 2012, 07:54 AM
Ok, here is my theory in why Echizen did not use Muga and it's doors in NPoT so far.

Has anyone thought that maybe he can't use them? Muga is a place you go when you surpass your own limits, and perhaps Ryoma has raised his own limits during training so he has yet to surpass them again. Also, since the doors come after the initial activation of Muga, the doors: Hyakuren, Saiki and Ten'imuhou that Echizen had unlocked before, are not accessible anymore (at this time). So even though Ten'imuhou multiplies base skill level, if you cannot pass that skill level first, you cannot use it.

Airgrimes
March 28, 2012, 01:18 PM
Yukimura was way higher in skill than Echizen during the Nationals, yes. However, TMnK boosted Echizen's skill to a level higher than Yukimura, which is why Yukimura lost. As for Sanada, they are equal in everything but Yips. Yips are what make Yukimura not tie Sanada. Aura means nothing, it is the skill level increase that the aura brings.

Why are you repeating what I have told you? I said Yukimura is better than Echizen but TMnK was the boost that made him win. You were originally against that. It proves Aura is everything against Yips as far as we have been shown. Until we see an Aura-less person shakes off yips with ease, then it remains an Aura thing.

Yukimura and Sanada are NOT equal. Yukimura returned EVERYTHING Sanada had with ease. Remember Yukimura didnt say he got serious till that shot flew past him and tore off his head band. Yukimura had shut down all the techniques Sanada had. Its not til Black Aura arrive did Sanada stop being shut down.
The Aura means everything.




Did you forget that the very same serve you were amazed by was returned by Nationals Yukimura, and then proceeded to have an entire rally? Some boost. If Yukimura (who is significantly worse than Kazuya at this point) was able to rally completely fine against TMnK Echizen, Kazuya would have beat him. Not to mention the whole cool drive thing was completely on purpose.

Ryoma slowed things down. He said he would slow things down for Yukimura. Did you not read the same manga? Why are you denying the Cool Drive thing? Only the Samurai Drive part I imagine was Ryoma's TMnK proper speed.

Saying it was on purpose is just silly. Regardless of whether it was plot power or not is irrelevant as Konomi officially gave him the power to see through special shots. Yukimura returned it first time and Tokugawa couldnt. End of story.
Tokugawa is not as high up as you think he is. Although he is amazing.

TMnK IS the difference that made him win. Nothing more to it.

---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------



Or not, Sanada, even he can't move, could teleport to the spot where the ball is and return it, so AK wouldn't work against Rai. What prevents you from teleporting? Nothing, then AK, like Koori No Sekai, wouldn't work. Also, with BA, Sanada would crush Atobe 6-0.

Dont get carried away. Konomi wouldnt allow this. There will be more some complications with Rai against AK. A 6-0 loss for Atobe is 100% Unrealistic in this series lol.

---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 PM ----------


Ok, here is my theory in why Echizen did not use Muga and it's doors in NPoT so far.

Has anyone thought that maybe he can't use them? Muga is a place you go when you surpass your own limits, and perhaps Ryoma has raised his own limits during training so he has yet to surpass them again. Also, since the doors come after the initial activation of Muga, the doors: Hyakuren, Saiki and Ten'imuhou that Echizen had unlocked before, are not accessible anymore (at this time). So even though Ten'imuhou multiplies base skill level, if you cannot pass that skill level first, you cannot use it.

Are you saying he cant open any doors of Muga anymore? I dont get it.

Also Kaoz has said this several times before. Ryoma didnt know he would stay in the camp if he forfeited his own Tie-break. So why would he not go all out?? Its that simple. For now we can assume he cant access TMnK at will. He has only accessed it twice in 2 pinches against Tooyama and Yukimura.

LetalHawk
March 28, 2012, 01:22 PM
---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------



Dont get carried away. Konomi wouldnt allow this. There will be more some complications with Rai against AK. A 6-0 loss for Atobe is 100% Unrealistic in this series lol.

---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 PM ----------



Are you saying he cant open any doors of Muga anymore? I dont get it.

Also Kaoz has said this several times before. Ryoma didnt know he would stay in the camp if he forfeited his own Tie-break. So why would he not go all out?? Its that simple. For now we can assume he cant access TMnK at will. He has only accessed it twice in 2 pinches against Tooyama and Yukimura.

He only showed it against Yukimura, but since we discussed that before, I accept your theory that he also against Tooyama, but I'm not sure, so that remains a mistery lol.

Airgrimes
March 28, 2012, 01:48 PM
He only showed it against Yukimura, but since we discussed that before, I accept your theory that he also against Tooyama, but I'm not sure, so that remains a mistery lol.

WE saw him use it agaisnt Tooyama. We saw the flash. The audience all said that it was TMnK. When Fuji and Chitose said it was TMnK, what is it that makes you STILL feel he didnt?
Why else would Fuji's and Chitose's pupils have been shivering? Re-watch the Nationals. It will help. I cant believe you can watch the series and not notice that the first time we see TMnK was against Tooyama.

LetalHawk
March 28, 2012, 02:32 PM
WE saw him use it agaisnt Tooyama. We saw the flash. The audience all said that it was TMnK. When Fuji and Chitose said it was TMnK, what is it that makes you STILL feel he didnt?
Why else would Fuji's and Chitose's pupils have been shivering? Re-watch the Nationals. It will help. I cant believe you can watch the series and not notice that the first time we see TMnK was against Tooyama.

Of course their eyes were like that. But do they knew how TnK was, where they sure? Or if Echizen hair was spiking upwards? Nobody knew that TnK was related to enjoying tennis until Nanjiro explained to them, so I don't see any proof he was using it.

They were amazed no doubt, but if it was TnK, at least Echizen would have different hair or something, the ball was split in half due to Samurai Drive.

Airgrimes
March 28, 2012, 04:24 PM
Of course their eyes were like that. But do they knew how TnK was, where they sure? Or if Echizen hair was spiking upwards? Nobody knew that TnK was related to enjoying tennis until Nanjiro explained to them, so I don't see any proof he was using it.

They were amazed no doubt, but if it was TnK, at least Echizen would have different hair or something, the ball was split in half due to Samurai Drive.

Wrong. Chitose mentioned TMnK to Tezuka after Shitenhouji VS Fudomine. Its in your interest to re-watch if you didnt know this.
Chitose and Fuji said the words TMnK. This happened prior to Nanjiro talking to them about it.
Start from Nationals Ep. 14.

The proof is the big flash, and more importantly, the fact that Konomi had characters say that he used it. That is CONCRETE proof. He exited TMnK the moment he finished Samurai Drive. Which means the smoke prevented us from seeing the effect on his hair. This had to be done since it was not the finals. Why would Konomi show the FINAL technique before the Finals?
How you dont understand that TMnK was used then baffles me. It was made perfectly clear by Chitose and Fuji.

Kaoz
March 28, 2012, 05:41 PM
Or not, Sanada, even he can't move, could teleport to the spot where the ball is and return it, so AK wouldn't work against Rai. What prevents you from teleporting? Nothing, then AK, like Koori No Sekai, wouldn't work. Also, with BA, Sanada would crush Atobe 6-0.

Rai is still movement. It's movement at godlike speed, but it's movement, so it should still be useless against AK. Of course, if Sanada hit the second part of Rai, Atobe probably couldn't use AK anymore since, even if he can return it which we don't know, he would probably have to focus his Insight on Rai's movement.


Has anyone thought that maybe he can't use them?

Yes. I've been saying that for around a year now I believe :p

To be fair though, I originally limited it to TnK only. However if he doesn't use any of the doors in his next match, I would remove them from his skill set for the time being.

I'm fairly certain that he can still use the basic Muga though, simply because Sanada was also able to enter it in the Kantou finals, even though he wasn't anywhere near his limit (he still had Rai and In, even though he chose not to use them).

In Echizen's case the difference between Muga and the doors is that, while he is actually able to control Muga (maybe the best out of everyone we've seen so far), he gained all the doors in a sudden burst of growth, so it's possible that he hasn't actually figured out how to control them properly.

I think the reason why we haven't seen Muga anymore is the same as why Yukimura and Sanada don't use it, they are stronger without it.


WE saw him use it agaisnt Tooyama. We saw the flash. The audience all said that it was TMnK. When Fuji and Chitose said it was TMnK, what is it that makes you STILL feel he didnt?
Why else would Fuji's and Chitose's pupils have been shivering? Re-watch the Nationals. It will help. I cant believe you can watch the series and not notice that the first time we see TMnK was against Tooyama.

I think the main confusion with this is that, while Chitose and Fuji imply that it was TnK, Nanjirou's comment afterwards implies that it wasn't, and people interpret it as Konomi saying how it really is though Nanjirou.

Personally, I think that he did use TnK for that one shot against Kintarou as Chitose and Fuji said, but as Nanjirou's comment implies, it was only some sort of proto type and not the real thing, which can also be seen as the cause for him not being able to get both halves of the ball over the net.

Fayte
March 28, 2012, 10:51 PM
Why are you repeating what I have told you? I said Yukimura is better than Echizen but TMnK was the boost that made him win. You were originally against that.

I never argued against it. You must have misunderstood my posts.



Yukimura and Sanada are NOT equal. Yukimura returned EVERYTHING Sanada had with ease.

Lol. And Sanada returned EVERYTHING Yukimura had with ease. Why do you think they were still rallying for the first point while every other match was ending? Why do you think Yukimura got the first point only when Yips activated? You're telling me that wasn't a stalemate up until that point? Don't be silly.


Regardless of whether it was plot power or not is irrelevant as Konomi officially gave him the power to see through special shots. Yukimura returned it first time and Tokugawa couldnt. End of story.

And somehow this means something? Why did you even mention this? Only an idiot would say Nationals Yukimura is better than Kazuya. Kazuya can easily hit 10 balls at the same time, and Yukimura barely hit 2. You're telling me Kazuya didn't miss the Cool Drive on purpose (when the anime cleared up the fact he did)? Cool story bro.


WE saw him use it agaisnt Tooyama. We saw the flash. The audience all said that it was TMnK. When Fuji and Chitose said it was TMnK, what is it that makes you STILL feel he didnt?

You mean besides the fact that after everyone was suggesting it was TMnK, Nanjiroh said it wasn't?

mystictapion
March 29, 2012, 05:25 AM
Or not, Sanada, even he can't move, could teleport to the spot where the ball is and return it, so AK wouldn't work against Rai. What prevents you from teleporting? Nothing, then AK, like Koori No Sekai, wouldn't work. Also, with BA, Sanada would crush Atobe 6-0.

Or not. It's just fast steps, then IF the ball bounce on the court, maybe he doesn't arrive in time, depending of time of reaction of him.

LetalHawk
March 29, 2012, 12:04 PM
Rai grants you inhuman speed, it automatically sends you to where the ball is. Even if you can't move, you can still teleport.

Airgrimes
March 29, 2012, 12:31 PM
And somehow this means something? Why did you even mention this? Only an idiot would say Nationals Yukimura is better than Kazuya. Kazuya can easily hit 10 balls at the same time, and Yukimura barely hit 2. You're telling me Kazuya didn't miss the Cool Drive on purpose (when the anime cleared up the fact he did)? Cool story bro.

Cool story's on you since NOBODY said that Tokugawa was weaker than Nationals!Yukimura. Your going on like he is an untouchable character. My point was he's not that far off from a few characters.
Also what your now saying is irrelevant. The point was you said that Auras mean nothing against Yips. Its a baseless thing to say considering its not been overcome without an aura. end of.



You mean besides the fact that after everyone was suggesting it was TMnK, Nanjiroh said it wasn't?

Did he specifically say it wasnt?



Lol. And Sanada returned EVERYTHING Yukimura had with ease. Why do you think they were still rallying for the first point while every other match was ending? Why do you think Yukimura got the first point only when Yips activated? You're telling me that wasn't a stalemate up until that point? Don't be silly.


Fair enough.

LetalHawk
March 29, 2012, 12:56 PM
Cool story's on you since NOBODY said that Tokugawa was weaker than Nationals!Yukimura. Your going on like he is an untouchable character. My point was he's not that far off from a few characters.



Did he specifically say it wasnt?

---------- Post added at 11:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------



Fair enough.

Echizen is right now at Tokugawa's level, Sanada probably is almost there, and if Yukimura trained in the mountains, he'll be the strongest now. Probably stronger than Tokugawa, and I'm sure Yukimura can hit 6 or 5 balls at the same time right now.

mystictapion
March 29, 2012, 01:55 PM
Rai grants you inhuman speed, it automatically sends you to where the ball is. Even if you can't move, you can still teleport.

Like I said, it's not a teleport. So, there is a chance he can return ball.

Airgrimes
March 29, 2012, 02:35 PM
Like I said, it's not a teleport. So, there is a chance he can return ball.

Its practically teleportation although it has its limits. It can be viewed as teleportation. He goes from the net to the baseline in a blink. That is teleportation. Same principle as Shukuchiho.

Fayte
March 29, 2012, 03:30 PM
The point was you said that Auras mean nothing against Yips. Its a baseless thing to say considering its not been overcome without an aura. end of.

I said Auras mean nothing because it is ALL ABOUT ABILITY LEVEL. An "Aura" INCREASES your ability level. It has nothing to do with auras themselves making you immune to Yips. If Irie is at a higher ability level than Yukimura, he is already immune to yips without an aura.


Did he specifically say it wasnt?


http://c.mfcdn.net/store/manga/61/38-340.0/compressed/prince_of_tennis_ch340_p010.jpg
http://c.mfcdn.net/store/manga/61/38-340.0/compressed/prince_of_tennis_ch340_p012.jpg

Airgrimes
March 30, 2012, 12:10 PM
I said Auras mean nothing because it is ALL ABOUT ABILITY LEVEL. An "Aura" INCREASES your ability level. It has nothing to do with auras themselves making you immune to Yips. If Irie is at a higher ability level than Yukimura, he is already immune to yips without an aura.
ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF BRO.




http://c.mfcdn.net/store/manga/61/38-340.0/compressed/prince_of_tennis_ch340_p010.jpg
http://c.mfcdn.net/store/manga/61/38-340.0/compressed/prince_of_tennis_ch340_p012.jpg

Oh right. Nanjiro was watching therefore he knew. He could see through the radio right? No. It can interpreted different ways.

@LetalHawk I guess its not wrong to say it wasnt TMnK. But its not right either.

Fayte
March 30, 2012, 10:22 PM
ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF BRO.

You do realize that the only time an Aura prevented anything from happening was Sanada's "In," right? Every other Aura EVER shown was simply a boost in ability. But even Sanada's "In" is a direct result of his skill just like any other technique. Tell me something, if Auras in themselves have power, why did Chitose stalemate Tezuka when Tezuka only had PoHW? It's because both auras mean nothing in of themselves, but their ability level was the same. Why did Chitose lose to Tezuka when both of them had SKnK? It's because when Tezuka achieved it, it brought him to a higher level than Chitose. Why did Fuji beat Kirihara all the while Kirihara had an aura? It's because despite SoSA, Fuji's ability level was above Kirihara. I can keep going if you want, but I think I made my point. The only thing an Aura does is raise the skill of the user. Doesn't matter what Aura it is.


Oh right. Nanjiro was watching therefore he knew. He could see through the radio right? No. It can interpreted different ways.

Whatever makes you sleep at night.

LetalHawk
March 31, 2012, 04:25 AM
You do realize that the only time an Aura prevented anything from happening was Sanada's "In," right? Every other Aura EVER shown was simply a boost in ability. But even Sanada's "In" is a direct result of his skill just like any other technique. Tell me something, if Auras in themselves have power, why did Chitose stalemate Tezuka when Tezuka only had PoHW? It's because both auras mean nothing in of themselves, but their ability level was the same. Why did Chitose lose to Tezuka when both of them had SKnK? It's because when Tezuka achieved it, it brought him to a higher level than Chitose. Why did Fuji beat Kirihara all the while Kirihara had an aura? It's because despite SoSA, Fuji's ability level was above Kirihara. I can keep going if you want, but I think I made my point. The only thing an Aura does is raise the skill of the user. Doesn't
matter what Aura it is.


Whatever makes you sleep at night.

That's true. Only base skills and overall ability of a player will prove if Yips would work on him. Ryoga or Shuuji are both players with base skills above Yukimura, therefore, they could score points to him and take games from him. If you score points against Yukimura, Yips will never work, as he as to return of your shots, but if the other player is stronger in base tennis, then Yukimura will never win.

Much like Fayte said, breaking Yips it's not about auras, but about ability level. Auras like Tenimuhou, Hyakuren, Muga or Black aura only increase skills, but won't be enough to defeat a player, it's all about stats, and base skill. If Atobe, for example achieved Tenimuhou, he won't be able to defeat Tokugawa, Shuuji or Ryoma as all of them have way stronger stats than him.

Irie has trolling stats, so we don't know how strong he really is, but if he has more base skill than Yukimura, I'm afraid Yips won't work and Irie would defeat him.

Kaoz
March 31, 2012, 04:38 AM
If Atobe, for example achieved Tenimuhou, he won't be able to defeat Tokugawa, Shuuji or Ryoma as all of them have way stronger stats than him.


And you base that on...? I mean, Yukimura was way above Echizen at the beginning and couldn't even react to real TnK shots... and you can't deny that his return game is kinda good.

Airgrimes
March 31, 2012, 04:53 AM
You do realize that the only time an Aura prevented anything from happening was Sanada's "In," right? Every other Aura EVER shown was simply a boost in ability. But even Sanada's "In" is a direct result of his skill just like any other technique. Tell me something, if Auras in themselves have power, why did Chitose stalemate Tezuka when Tezuka only had PoHW? It's because both auras mean nothing in of themselves, but their ability level was the same. Why did Chitose lose to Tezuka when both of them had SKnK? It's because when Tezuka achieved it, it brought him to a higher level than Chitose. Why did Fuji beat Kirihara all the while Kirihara had an aura? It's because despite SoSA, Fuji's ability level was above Kirihara. I can keep going if you want, but I think I made my point. The only thing an Aura does is raise the skill of the user. Doesn't matter what Aura it is.

It kinda does. You should be well aware that TMnK and BA give different effects than SKnK and HJnK. While SKnK and HJnK increase a certain aspect of a player. Ba and TMnK multiply the player.

Standard Muga that Kirihara accessed you should well know doesnt even increase ability. It just uses shots that others have and doesnt lift a persons stats.

You do realize that the time an Aura has prevented something from happening was more than ''In'' right? We clearly saw TMnK and BA stop Yips. It did both boost ability and stop Yips which is what ive been saying for a while.




Whatever makes you sleep at night.
Same goes to you.

LetalHawk
March 31, 2012, 05:15 AM
And you base that on...? I mean, Yukimura was way above Echizen at the beginning and couldn't even react to real TnK shots... and you can't deny that his return game is kinda good.

Because achieveing Tenimuhou doesn't make you automatically win. I know Tenimuhou is unreal, but Atobe is weaker than Shuuji or Tokugawa, and achieveing Tenimuhou may take him to that level, but I don't think it would be enough.

But, if is another player like Ryoma, who activates it, then Ryoma would win, no doubt, but ability level also comes when achieveing Tenimuhou. You think all players can win if they achieve it? No. Not all of them, but most of them.

Airgrimes
March 31, 2012, 05:41 AM
Because achieveing Tenimuhou doesn't make you automatically win. I know Tenimuhou is unreal, but Atobe is weaker than Shuuji or Tokugawa, and achieveing Tenimuhou may take him to that level, but I don't think it would be enough.
You kidding? Atobe's skill in Part I was near Ryoma's. Had he had that DBZ boost like Ryoma got, where Ryoma was flying around the court, your telling me a Supersaiyan cant defeat Tokugawa? We dont know yet. Its still open lol.



But, if is another player like Ryoma, who activates it, then Ryoma would win, no doubt, but ability level also comes when achieveing Tenimuhou. You think all players can win if they achieve it? No. Not all of them, but most of them.
Fair point, I definetely agree with most of them.

LetalHawk
March 31, 2012, 06:14 AM
I hope Echizen finally activates it in the upcoming matches and blows up the entire court lol. I want to see him again using Muga, Konomi can't make him play the entire match without using it :/

I'm sure I was exaggerating a bit that Atobe won't reach Shuuji or Tokugawa's level with TnK, but Atobe with Tenimuhou would at least defeat Irie and maybe Tokugawa, but we have yet to see Irie and Tokugawa playing all out to say that.

Fayte
March 31, 2012, 10:53 PM
Standard Muga that Kirihara accessed you should well know doesnt even increase ability. It just uses shots that others have and doesnt lift a persons stats.


Right, of course. This is especially true during the unofficial match between Echizen and Kirihara (Ch.192). Despite Echizen's increase in concentration, confidence, decrease in fatigue and sweat, increase in both agility and serve speed, his ability remained unchanged.

Airgrimes
April 01, 2012, 09:46 AM
Right, of course. This is especially true during the unofficial match between Echizen and Kirihara (Ch.192). Despite Echizen's increase in concentration, confidence, decrease in fatigue and sweat, increase in both agility and serve speed, his ability remained unchanged.

Wouldnt go as far as to say it was an ability increase. The agility and speed is what you have interpreted. Remember Ryoma was playing Right-handed right til the Muga kicked in.
He quit sweating, likely due to not having to work as hard thanks to playing with his Left Hand. Again, the serve speed is likely due to him playing seriously. Obviously his left hand serve will be different to his right hand. As his opponent got used to his Right hand serve speed.
Confidence? Whats that got to do with ability?
Decrease in fatigue? He fainted right at the end...
Only concentration increased.
Yes. His ability was unchanged. Its coz he was using other peoples awesome techniques anbd play styles that made him win.

LetalHawk
April 01, 2012, 10:57 AM
He fainted because, like Kirihara, you play unconciously the first time you achieve it, and you don't realize what happened until somebody tells to you. The next time Echizen used Muga, he was able to control it without fainting at the end.

mystictapion
April 01, 2012, 03:49 PM
Its practically teleportation although it has its limits. It can be viewed as teleportation. He goes from the net to the baseline in a blink. That is teleportation. Same principle as Shukuchiho.

But do you agree when Atobe uses AK, IF ball bounce on the court, maybe Sanada will not have a chance of return?

Fayte
April 01, 2012, 10:36 PM
Wouldnt go as far as to say it was an ability increase. The agility and speed is what you have interpreted. Remember Ryoma was playing Right-handed right til the Muga kicked in.
He quit sweating, likely due to not having to work as hard thanks to playing with his Left Hand. Again, the serve speed is likely due to him playing seriously. Obviously his left hand serve will be different to his right hand. As his opponent got used to his Right hand serve speed.
Confidence? Whats that got to do with ability?
Decrease in fatigue? He fainted right at the end...
Only concentration increased.
Yes. His ability was unchanged. Its coz he was using other peoples awesome techniques anbd play styles that made him win.

When will you just accept the fact you're wrong?


Right handed after Muga:
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v22/c191/3.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v22/c191/8.html

Increase in Agility:
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v22/c191/6.html

Increase in Concentration / Decrease in Fatigue(sweat):
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v22/c191/5.html

If Echizen is playing better than he was prior to Muga, that AUTOMATICALLY means skill has been increased. It is simple logic. Not to mention it would be absurd to any storyline to suggest gaining Muga just means you learn a couple techniques that do not make you any better. Had that been the case, they would NOT have made a big deal about who had it. Not only that, but learning techniques in of themselves, raises your ability level. What you're suggesting is just illogical.

Airgrimes
April 05, 2012, 10:31 AM
When will you just accept the fact you're wrong?


Right handed after Muga:
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v22/c191/3.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v22/c191/8.html

Increase in Agility:
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v22/c191/6.html

Increase in Concentration / Decrease in Fatigue(sweat):
http://mangafox.me/manga/prince_of_tennis/v22/c191/5.html

If Echizen is playing better than he was prior to Muga, that AUTOMATICALLY means skill has been increased. It is simple logic. Not to mention it would be absurd to any storyline to suggest gaining Muga just means you learn a couple techniques that do not make you any better. Had that been the case, they would NOT have made a big deal about who had it. Not only that, but learning techniques in of themselves, raises your ability level. What you're suggesting is just illogical.

Ill accept I was wrong about saying Muga doesnt lift stats,
You go on as if you accepted you were wrong when saying ''In'' is the only Aura shown to stop something despite TMnK and BA stopping Yips and HJnK stopping Power shots in Tezuka VS Kite.

LetalHawk
April 05, 2012, 04:07 PM
They stop Yips because the boost on the abilities. If a player has higher skill and is stronger stat-wise than Yukimura, Yips would be an useless technique.

However, Yukimura still returns all the shots, but Yips can't work, so he has a disadvantadge.

Airgrimes
April 05, 2012, 05:12 PM
They stop Yips because the boost on the abilities. If a player has higher skill and is stronger stat-wise than Yukimura, Yips would be an useless technique.

Absolutely no proof like I said before. Just a theory.
SKnK boosts abilities and HJnK greatly boosts abilities greatly too although they dont stop Yips.

LetalHawk
April 05, 2012, 05:18 PM
Absolutely no proof like I said before. Just a theory.
SKnK boosts abilities and HJnK greatly boosts abilities greatly too although they dont stop Yips.

Then how can you explain players like Shuuji or Byodouin are above Yukimura without using any aura, just basic tennis.

Still, skill isn't enough to stop Yips. Irie and Oni, even if they have amazing stats, they'd lose to Yukimura due to Yips and the fact that no shot can get past him. He's a beast, and I'm sure he at least would defeat Ryoga and Duke. But, Shuuji, Tokugawa and Byodouin have too much hype and I think that they're the only HS who can beat Yuki. Altough in a three set match, the match can be turned around, so Yukimura might defeat them if he gains a monster power up, I don't think Konomi would make him lose two sets that bad, he'd make a comeback for sure.

Airgrimes
April 05, 2012, 05:28 PM
Then how can you explain players like Shuuji or Byodouin are above Yukimura without using any aura, just basic tennis.

We will explain once we see them. Its that simple bro.
We know Tanegashima and Byoudouin are the best in the camp, but we dont know how far above they are. Once we find out, then we can judge.

You misunderstand the danger of Yukimura's improved Yips. It completely BLOCKS improvement.
Unlike the old Yips which makes the opponent think they are about to lose, and then forces the opponent to bring out any far hidden potential like it did to Ryoma and Sanada,
The new Yips makes the user think he is about to win, meaning he doesnt feel the need to put any effort to win. In this time of being Yipped, the opponents ass then gets kicked.
Yips is far more effective than before so bare that in mind.

Its not baseless that higher stats can block Yips but we are yet to see that.

Fayte
April 05, 2012, 05:43 PM
Ill accept I was wrong about saying Muga doesnt lift stats,
You go on as if you accepted you were wrong when saying ''In'' is the only Aura shown to stop something despite TMnK and BA stopping Yips and HJnK stopping Power shots in Tezuka VS Kite.

Read what I say very carefully:

Shadow prevents Pinnacle of Great Wisdom, because it was explicitly stated that was the entire purpose and intent for it. It is specifically designed by Sanada for techniques that read the opponent. However, even though Yukimura said Lightning prevents Tezuka from using Pinnacle of Hard Work, does not mean that is the only purpose for Lightning. Shadow directly prevents PoGW, but Lightning indirectly prevents PoHW because it automatically destroys the racquet gut, so the technique is useless. However as we have clearly seen, Lightning is a technique that prevents basically ANYTHING (except the butt of Yukimura's racquet), not just Tezuka's technique. That's why Lightning is different than Shadow. Preventing a technique does not mean that is the purpose and "ability" of the technique itself.

Therefore:

PoHW is not a technique to put you into a state of "anti-powershot." It simply allows you to double the power of any ball. It just so happens that the result of this ability indirectly makes you great against power players. However, as shown with Kabaji, it does not make you "anti-powershot."

Same thing with Pinnacle of Perfection and Black Aura. Just because Echizen and Sanada broke free from Yips does not mean those techniques were designed for Yips. Breaking out of Yips was just a result of the boost in ability that the techniques gave them. It was the result, not the intent.

Shadow beats PoGW (Intent)
Lightning beats PoHW (Result)
PoHW beats power shots (Result)
PoP beats Yips (Result)
BA beats Yips (Result)

Kaoz
April 05, 2012, 05:43 PM
Theoretically, Yips can be prevented really "easily" by destroying the image of Yukimura's perfect defense right at the beginning of the match, or in other words, scoring against him fast, multiple times and continuing to do so for the whole match. This holds true for both the old and new version. Of course higher stats help a lot with that.

Fayte
April 05, 2012, 05:48 PM
Theoretically, Yips can be prevented really "easily" by scoring against him fast, multiple times and continuing to do so for the whole match.

Losing can also be prevented by this advice.

Kaoz
April 05, 2012, 06:17 PM
Losing can also be prevented by this advice.

Losing can also be prevented by making a comeback from 0-5. As we've seen when Ryoma used Hyakuren at 0-4, this doesn't work against Yips though since the images were already in his head.

mystictapion
April 05, 2012, 10:02 PM
But do you agree when Atobe uses AK, IF ball bounce on the court, maybe Sanada will not have a chance of return?

So?

LetalHawk
April 06, 2012, 02:36 AM
Losing can also be prevented by making a comeback from 0-5. As we've seen when Ryoma used Hyakuren at 0-4, this doesn't work against Yips though since the images were already in his head.

Not only scoring fast, but having an amazing mental like Irie also helps. I think he's the player with the strongest mental in the entire camp, so I think Yips, even if Irie doesn't score against him, wouldn't work. If Irie is able to easily understand others emotions, he could quickly see through Yips and maybe revert the technique and we get a similar scenario like Fuwa's Reflection.

Airgrimes
April 06, 2012, 05:37 AM
So?

Not too sure. Lightning allows the player to get to anywhere on the court in a blink just like Kite's Shukuchiho. Im not really understanding AK's use in this match against Ochi/Mouri so Im gonna re-read it. It seems rather ineffective to constantly use it in Doubles since the partner can cover the other's blind spot so im not too sure.

Would be good if we saw Atobe take on a Higa member prior to this. Had we been given more Team Shuffles before the massive fodderization of the HSers began we could have answered this better.

Kaoz
April 06, 2012, 05:55 AM
Lightning allows the player to get to anywhere on the court in a blink just like Kite's Shukuchiho.

That's not really what Shukuchihou does. You still move at normal speed, just for the opponent it appears as if you went somewhere instantly.


Im not really understanding AK's use in this match against Ochi/Mouri so Im gonna re-read it. It seems rather ineffective to constantly use it in Doubles since the partner can cover the other's blind spot so im not too sure.


Atobe didn't actually use AK against them. It's just that his level of Insight lets him see bones now so whenever he's using it, that's what we get.

Airgrimes
April 06, 2012, 06:04 AM
That's not really what Shukuchihou does. You still move at normal speed, just for the opponent it appears as if you went somewhere instantly.
Is it not similar to Lightning? For the opponent it appears as if he went somewhere instantly. Since Konomi hasnt said its teleportation for either of them yet since the toll on Sanada's leg appears after over-use meaning its a Step just like Shukuchiho no?




Atobe didn't actually use AK against them. It's just that his level of Insight lets him see bones now so whenever he's using it, that's what we get.
What I mean is what does it do for Atobe? Im not really getting the purpose of it yet.

Kaoz
April 06, 2012, 06:15 AM
Is it not similar to Lightning? For the opponent it appears as if he went somewhere instantly. Since Konomi hasnt said its teleportation for either of them yet since the toll on Sanada's leg appears after over-use meaning its a Step just like Shukuchiho no?

No. Rai is movement at godlike speed that exceeds the human limits. (http://www.mangareader.net/422-27248-6/prince-of-tennis/chapter-351.html) Shukuchihou is normal movement, it just looks a lot faster than it actually is.

An important point to note here is that Rai is still movement though.


What I mean is what does it do for Atobe? Im not really getting the purpose of it yet.

He uses it to return Mach. Mach is not like Waterfall or Neo Scud that it is super fast by itself (although it's still quite fast I'm sure), the problem is that Ochi serves so fast that you can't react to the motion. Imagine it like an upgraded version of Kamio's Quick Serve. Insight allows Atobe to see Ochi's arm motion and ultimately allows him react to it.

Fuji Shusuke
April 06, 2012, 06:15 AM
I reckon that Atobe was using AK. In doubles, yes AK and WoI lose effectiveness. But that is why Mouri and Ochi were able to keep up with the score. Since AK only works if the opponents' absolute blind spots overlap, there are only very few chances to use it. Because of this, the 1st Stringers won the point while Atobe was waiting for a chance to use AK. If Atobe could use it all the time, the set would be over easily but with for 2 or 3 lost games due to Mach.

Airgrimes
April 06, 2012, 07:46 AM
No. Rai is movement at godlike speed that exceeds the human limits. (http://www.mangareader.net/422-27248-6/prince-of-tennis/chapter-351.html) Shukuchihou is normal movement, it just looks a lot faster than it actually is.

An important point to note here is that Rai is still movement though.

....
Kite's Shukuchiho is also supernatural (http://www.mangareader.net/422-27167-10/prince-of-tennis/chapter-270.html).
So they are extremely similar no? Since neither are normal movement.



He uses it to return Mach. Mach is not like Waterfall or Neo Scud that it is super fast by itself (although it's still quite fast I'm sure), the problem is that Ochi serves so fast that you can't react to the motion. Imagine it like an upgraded version of Kamio's Quick Serve. Insight allows Atobe to see Ochi's arm motion and ultimately allows him react to it.
Im sure its faster than Neo Scud and Waterfall. For Niou and Atobe to not even realize the ball has gone past them?
Kamio's Quick Serve? I dont even remember it lol was it in the anime?

So AK only does that? It doesnt seem that great to me now.
I thought it could see through the skeleton AND return to an extremely difficult place.

Kaoz
April 06, 2012, 08:33 AM
....
Kite's Shukuchiho is also supernatural (http://www.mangareader.net/422-27167-10/prince-of-tennis/chapter-270.html).
So they are extremely similar no? Since neither are normal movement.

Kite's Shukuchihou is extraordinary because of his great sense of balance that allows him to apply it in all directions. Besides that, it's no different than the Shukuchihou of any of the others.

The difference is, with Shukuchihou it only seems like you're that fast but you aren't in reality, whereas with Rai you are actually that fast.


Im sure its faster than Neo Scud and Waterfall. For Niou and Atobe to not even realize the ball has gone past them?
Kamio's Quick Serve? I dont even remember it lol was it in the anime?

http://www.mangareader.net/422-26929-5/prince-of-tennis/chapter-32.html
The idea is simply that you carry out the serve itself faster than normal, which gives the opponent less time to react. Ochi is more or less doing the same thing, you can't see his swinging motion normally, so the serve comes sooner than expected.

If you compare it to Waterfall for example, you see Inui's service motion clearly and can prepare for the shot. Let's say the time you have to be able to react to it is X+Y (reaction time + the time the ball travels). Ochi minimzes X with Mach, so even if the shot itself it a little slower in his case (i.e. Y is higher), the overall time you have to react can still be much lower.


So AK only does that? It doesnt seem that great to me now.
I thought it could see through the skeleton AND return to an extremely difficult place.

Well, this level of Insight allows Atobe to see the skeleton. As a result of that, he knows where his opponent's absolute blind spots are (which is AK), but chances are that, as you theorized, Ochi's and Mouri's blind spots don't match, so that part is useless in doubles.

LetalHawk
April 06, 2012, 09:56 AM
So AK, like Saiki, is ineffective, and only it's useful in single matches, because you have to get focused on the absolute blind spots of two persons and wastes more stamina?

Kaoz
April 06, 2012, 10:02 AM
So AK, like Saiki, is ineffective, and only it's useful in single matches, because you have to get focused on the absolute blind spots of two persons and wastes more stamina?

It's not a matter of stamina, but rather what are the chances that the absolute blind spots of two people overlap? Ochi and Mouri are doubles experts, so they probably cover each other's blind spots rather well, making it even harder to find an opening.

LetalHawk
April 06, 2012, 10:19 AM
It's not a matter of stamina, but rather what are the chances that the absolute blind spots of two people overlap? Ochi and Mouri are doubles experts, so they probably cover each other's blind spots rather well, making it even harder to find an opening.

Then, much like a Synchro pair who can cover their blind spots, if you're up against doubles experts, AK won't work.

Airgrimes
April 07, 2012, 04:19 AM
Compare Akutsu in this situation who can hit 5 shots at once and attack in any position, doesnt this mean he can counter World of Ice?

FrostyMouse
April 07, 2012, 04:35 AM
Well, realistically, Airgrimes, at this stage in the manga, KnS really shouldn't be effective against good players anymore. It's the same as how we saw as PoT went on, Muga went from being this amazing tech to really just being something that couldn't compete on the highest level, leading to it becoming obsolete.

Irie's obviously on a higher level than Akutsu, but KnS is useless against top tier singles players, which is what AK does for Atobe; it gives him more of a chance. At this point, skeleton-level Insight is probably enough to break Zone all the time, so it should've surpassed that. Phantom should still beat AK, but Phantom beats most things.

Airgrimes
April 07, 2012, 05:03 AM
Well, realistically, Airgrimes, at this stage in the manga, KnS really shouldn't be effective against good players anymore. It's the same as how we saw as PoT went on, Muga went from being this amazing tech to really just being something that couldn't compete on the highest level, leading to it becoming obsolete.

Irie's obviously on a higher level than Akutsu, but KnS is useless against top tier singles players, which is what AK does for Atobe; it gives him more of a chance. At this point, skeleton-level Insight is probably enough to break Zone all the time, so it should've surpassed that. Phantom should still beat AK, but Phantom beats most things.

I suppose I have to agree here.
So then realistically how many players do we have able to counter World of Ice in the series?

Akutsu, Niou, Sanada, Ryoma, Irie, Yukimura, Tezuka,

Now since Tanegashima and Tokugawa werent phased even slightly by seeing Irie and Atobe use KnS we can assume they can overcome it with ease,

Then Fuji using Closed Eye will likely counter it.

What about Shiraishi? He is a strong Singles player but I dont see him breaking KnS.

LetalHawk
April 07, 2012, 06:41 AM
And Ryoma, Tezuka, Yukimura, Sanada, Oni, Shuuji.. should also able to deal with AK as well.

As Atobe can't use it too much, it's ineffective against top players also.

Airgrimes
April 08, 2012, 06:49 AM
SKnK VS KnS.
I feel that SKnK could overcome World of Ice if the user counts his blindspots when calculating the rally.

FrostyMouse
April 08, 2012, 07:07 AM
I'm of the opinion that Saiki breaks AK to begin with, but we can't be sure.

LetalHawk
April 08, 2012, 08:31 AM
I'm of the opinion that Saiki breaks AK to begin with, but we can't be sure.

Why not? I you can predict the outcome of the point, maybe a Saiki user can use a strategy to deal with AK so he can predict, even if the Zettai Shikkaku are present, where the ball will go, and return it.

Fuji Shusuke
April 08, 2012, 09:38 AM
Why not? I you can predict the outcome of the point, maybe a Saiki user can use a strategy to deal with AK so he can predict, even if the Zettai Shikkaku are present, where the ball will go, and return it.

Yes the Saiki user can predict the ball path, have fun returning it.

Airgrimes
April 08, 2012, 03:36 PM
Well then even after all that against Irie,

How would Atobe defeat Chitose?
Since I dont think Chitose is at the Niou, Akutsu, Fuji, Atobe, Tooyama level.

Fuji Shusuke
April 08, 2012, 11:02 PM
Well then even after all that against Irie,

How would Atobe defeat Chitose?
Since I dont think Chitose is at the Niou, Akutsu, Fuji, Atobe, Tooyama level.

Easily, if Chitose uses Saiki he will realise he will lose because of Atobe Kingdom. Even if Chitose can predict the ball path of AK and where it will land, he wouldn't be able to return it since his bones and joints cannot move into the correct positions to return it.

LetalHawk
April 09, 2012, 02:14 AM
6-0 to Atobe or 6-1, because of AK

Fayte
April 09, 2012, 04:34 PM
Then Fuji using Closed Eye will likely counter it.


I love how people talk about Fuji closing his eyes as if it is the same thing as Echizen switching from right to left hand. Fuji does not have some "blind state" that raises his abilities as if it were some aura. Fuji does not play better by closing his eyes. That doesn't even make sense. He only closed his eyes twice in the series, once against Kirihara and the other against Niou. Both times Fuji was in a situation where (in Konomi land) closing his eyes gave him the ability to focus during a chaotic moment, allowing him to hit shots. I refuse to believe we should ever seriously consider Fuji consistently entering some silly "closed eyes" state so he can become stronger.

Airgrimes
April 10, 2012, 01:57 AM
I love how people talk about Fuji closing his eyes as if it is the same thing as Echizen switching from right to left hand.
Nobody said this, as its more effective than that. Konomi has said so.

http://www.mangareader.net/422-27117-5/prince-of-tennis/chapter-220.html

I suppose some knowledge is better than none on this topic (http://princeoftennis.wikia.com/wiki/Closed_Eyes).



Fuji does not have some "blind state" that raises his abilities as if it were some aura. Fuji does not play better by closing his eyes. That doesn't even make sense. He only closed his eyes twice in the series, once against Kirihara and the other against Niou. Both times Fuji was in a situation where (in Konomi land) closing his eyes gave him the ability to focus during a chaotic moment, allowing him to hit shots.

Well as a result it broke through SKnK (http://www.mangareader.net/422-27260-1/prince-of-tennis/chapter-363.html)

Its a confirmed state which improves his abilities (http://www.mangareader.net/422-27260-4/prince-of-tennis/chapter-363.html).

''CLosed Eyes'' Is amazing, he turned it around (http://www.mangareader.net/422-27260-10/prince-of-tennis/chapter-363.html).



I refuse to believe we should ever seriously consider Fuji consistently entering some silly "closed eyes" state so he can become stronger.
Ignorance is a bliss. Maybe Konomi and Fuji can tell you here:

http://www.mangareader.net/422-27120-4/prince-of-tennis/chapter-223.html

LetalHawk
April 10, 2012, 04:28 AM
Fuji's CE are an option or a way to break through Saiki, Hyakuren, and confuse opponents, but closing his eyes doesn't take him to another level, it's just a way to break some techniques.

Fuji Shusuke
April 10, 2012, 05:45 AM
CE doesn't just break techniques, it heightens the other senses and allows Fuji to feel the presence of the ball.

Here is something to consider, can Fuji only hit continuous cord balls with CE or can he do it without it?
If he can do it only with CE, then CE raises skill level.
If he can do it without CE, then it gives no apparent skill level increase.

Kaoz
April 10, 2012, 08:07 AM
Fuji's CE are an option or a way to break through Saiki, Hyakuren, and confuse opponents, but closing his eyes doesn't take him to another level, it's just a way to break some techniques.

CE does nothing against Hyakuren, the two are completly unrelated to each other. It should break things like Saiki, Illusion, GUYU, Vanish, basically stuff that tries to predict and things that are effective through the eyes.


CE doesn't just break techniques, it heightens the other senses and allows Fuji to feel the presence of the ball.

Here is something to consider, can Fuji only hit continuous cord balls with CE or can he do it without it?
If he can do it only with CE, then CE raises skill level.
If he can do it without CE, then it gives no apparent skill level increase.

He himself said that he couldn't have won against Kirihara in Kanto without CE, and Kirihara didn't use anything like the abillities I listed above, so chances are it raises something. What would make sense to me is that It raises his concentration which allows him to hit more precise shots, so basically it "increases" his skill indirectly.

Fuji Shusuke
April 10, 2012, 11:52 AM
Fuji's CE are an option or a way to break through Saiki, Hyakuren, and confuse opponents, but closing his eyes doesn't take him to another level, it's just a way to break some techniques.

I think Cord Ball is the technique which breaks Hyakuren. You have to run towards the net to receive the cord ball and because Hyakuren makes body parts other than the arm weaker, Hyakuren would need to be turned off to reach the ball in time. Also, there is almost no power or spin to double if it is a cord ball.

Airgrimes
April 10, 2012, 01:25 PM
Fuji's CE are an option or a way to break through Saiki, Hyakuren, and confuse opponents, but closing his eyes doesn't take him to another level, it's just a way to break some techniques.

Did you just ignore the links and type away? Fuji said it was BECAUSE he couldnt see that he won. Clearly it took him higher.

LetalHawk
April 13, 2012, 09:37 AM
Did you just ignore the links and type away? Fuji said it was BECAUSE he couldnt see that he won. Clearly it took him higher.

His concentration raised, and due to that, his skill level improved. Like I said, it's also a way to break technique and raise skill, but it does not GREATLY raise skill like an aura, for example.

Airgrimes
April 13, 2012, 12:22 PM
His concentration raised, and due to that, his skill level improved. Like I said, it's also a way to break technique and raise skill, but it does not GREATLY raise skill like an aura, for example.

Its a state as oppose to an aura. Closed Eyes DOES raise skill. Its a state like Bloodshot Mode, Devil Mode, Angel Mode, Taka' Burning etc. (http://princeoftennis.wikia.com/wiki/Category:States)


Aura's are different coz they are called aura's lol. Either way, states in the series do raise skill.

LetalHawk
April 13, 2012, 03:35 PM
Its a state as oppose to an aura. Closed Eyes DOES raise skill. Its a state like Bloodshot Mode, Devil Mode, Angel Mode, Taka' Burning etc. (http://princeoftennis.wikia.com/wiki/Category:States)


Aura's are different coz they are called aura's lol. Either way, states in the series do raise skill.

Like I said, of course it raises skills, but not as great as an aura does.

CE are used, as far as we know, by Echizen, Nanjirou, Fuji and Fuwa. It's quite an impressive ability as you only hit shots through hearing them, your concentration sky-rockets, and be able to hit cord balls with the eyes closed as Fuji does leaves me speechless lol.

Airgrimes
April 13, 2012, 06:17 PM
Like I said, of course it raises skills, but not as great as an aura does.

CE are used, as far as we know, by Echizen, Nanjirou, Fuji and Fuwa. It's quite an impressive ability as you only hit shots through hearing them, your concentration sky-rockets, and be able to hit cord balls with the eyes closed as Fuji does leaves me speechless lol.

But that has nothing to do with the initial point since we are all aware its not gonna do what an aura does otherwise it would be an aura lol.
And yeah, CE should eliminate most tennis shots like Vanish, GUYU, Kamikakushi, Abare Dama, Entaku Shot or in fact any shot that relies on effects. Unless the opponent fires a shot that is of DBZ SSJ speed. (TMnK or BA type shots).

Now I wishi Konomi would quit trolling and name Sanada's aura lol. Tired of saying BA. Black Aura feels so vague since Tachibana and Kamio have the a Black Aura too I think.

Fuji Shusuke
April 13, 2012, 11:18 PM
What Tachibana, Kamio and Tetsu have is not Black Aura but Beast's Aura or Beastlike Aura (Moujuu no Aura). >_> too many friggen white or black auras. BTW I dibs blue aura :D

LetalHawk
April 14, 2012, 03:26 AM
We'll have to wait for a long time until we see Sanada play, so until we see the aura again, I'll call it BA