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View Full Version : [FEATURED] Vandenreich - Mega Convo Thread



thornofcarrion
March 16, 2012, 02:36 AM
Most probably, we are going to see a lot about members of Vandenreich in days to come. A mysterious faction appearing out of nowhere, seemingly has very powerful members.

All the general discussion related to Vandenreich can be directed here.

I have several questions regarding Vanenreich, about their motives, their origin, their powers, etc. First of all, why did they not aid Aizen when they share similar goals as Aizen? Had they joined forces with Aizen back then, I am not sure SS has won. I know its too early to judge them, but their leader looks a very dangerous character. Besides, entering into SS and fighting Yama, requires decent power-level.

Lets discuss, shall we :)...

Kurohitsugi
March 16, 2012, 03:46 AM
We need more info. For starters, we still don't know for sure what race those guys are!

In any case, we can't be that sure whether they share similar goals with Aizen or not. We know they want to destroy Soul Society but there's no clue in why they are doing it. Neither if this "Buckbeard" Vandkaiser wants to invade the Royal Realm afterward and kill/dethrone the Soul King. We have to wait to learn. Maybe when Kubo decides to let us know some things about their past, we may be able to conclude some things about the cause of the war.

Additionally, even if this was the case, why would they release such a dangerous competitor like Aizen? Do you really believe that Aizen would thank them and help them if they would release him? No, by helping him escape they would add one more enemy against their cause. However, there's a chance they organize and be behind a full-scale outbreak of the criminals from Soul Society's prisons to reinforce the chaos and distract a part of their enemies' force but they should not let the one who reside in the 7th or 8th level to escape as well. Who knows what terrible individuals from all Soul Society's history are locked down there.

Since we have not an idea about their power level, their clear and indisputable advantage in this war is the secret location of their hideout. As long it remains hidden they can always be on the attacking side. Also, Soul Society isn't only Seiretei. It's the huge area of Rukongai as well. The Vandereich could hit at any place in any time as they wish. They don't even have to use their own troops since it's easy to create ruckus by using a couple of menos or other hollows.

I highly anticipate to see how this war will turn out. I want to see some tactic from both sides. In the Winter War it was only Aizen who had a kind of strategy.

thornofcarrion
March 16, 2012, 04:12 AM
In my opinion, if they wanted to do destroy SS, siding with Aizen was more beneficial. Aizen was just one man. Dealing with him should have been relatively easier than taking on entire Gotie 13. I could be wrong here, as Aizen's ability was far more troubling. Vandenreich seem to have plenty of confidence on their abilities. It could be a reason they didn't require Aizen help or helped him. Aizen was a smart and cunning man. He used Arrancars for his advantage. Vandenreich would have been exploited as were Arrancars. If they were useful, I believe Aizen might have joined hands with them.

What do you guys think about their means of transport? Invading SS out of nowhere and escaping just like that.

kanamechidori
March 16, 2012, 04:24 AM
What does Vandenreich mean?

Is this germanrish like his usual engrish?

Miyagi
March 16, 2012, 05:48 AM
What does Vandenreich mean?

Is this germanrish like his usual engrish?

It's a half Dutch, half German word which means "Of the Empire".

It's still too early to tell what they're up to but my best guess at this point is that people of Vandenreich are exiled shinigami who were banished to a separate dimension underneath SS which Ice Palace is in. They say Yamamoto already knows them and Hiyori smelled a shinigami when possibly one or a group of them was visiting the vizards in KT. The reason why they were exiled is because they were former quincies who died in a war against shinigami 1000 years ago and it caused trouble in SS when many of them ended up there after they died. They trained themselves and achieved bankai during this time, they also figured out how to use quincy powers with help of their quincy background and they finally found out a way to leave this dimension, perhaps with the involvement of Aizen, and now they want revenge.

Kage Fuusha
March 16, 2012, 08:02 PM
They are obviously Quincy (the medallion that Ivan showed is the same as Ishida's and the white outfits) with the ability to steal Shinigami powers.

Kurohitsugi
March 17, 2012, 05:38 AM
They are obviously Quincy (the medallion that Ivan showed is the same as Ishida's and the white outfits) with the ability to steal Shinigami powers.

We shouldn't judge by what we see and only. Someone said "They are obviously arrancars (the fragment of Ivan's mask showed that he is a arrancarized hollow)" but we all see that this wasn't valid. They are probably a kind of hybrids who have Quincy powers but that's all we can deduce so far. ;)

FetherMan
March 17, 2012, 12:31 PM
The King dude, could've been head of a Noble House that use to exist in the early days of Soul Society. Like the Kuchiki and Shihouin Houses. I always wondered, if Kubo would reveal more about the noble houses and their histories in Soul Society.

Trotter
March 19, 2012, 04:22 PM
In Shounen Jump Alpha, the online viz magainze, Vandenreich is translated to "Invisible Empire" and not "Of the Empire"

vizardichigo
March 19, 2012, 07:48 PM
I dont think anyone siding with Aizen would have come out the winner...He would have just used them and when he succeeded, eliminated them as potential threats...So i agree with them doing it on their own..Makes sense to me.

thornofcarrion
March 20, 2012, 12:50 AM
They are obviously Quincy (the medallion that Ivan showed is the same as Ishida's and the white outfits) with the ability to steal Shinigami powers.

Apparently, they are at least associated with Quincy. Chances are they are evolved Quincies. The strange is they are humans, unlike spirit entities that are Shingami and Hollow. May be they found a way to obtain their powers.


The King dude, could've been head of a Noble House that use to exist in the early days of Soul Society. Like the Kuchiki and Shihouin Houses. I always wondered, if Kubo would reveal more about the noble houses and their histories in Soul Society.

Possibility do exist.


I dont think anyone siding with Aizen would have come out the winner...He would have just used them and when he succeeded, eliminated them as potential threats...So i agree with them doing it on their own..Makes sense to me.

May be, but it could be the other way around. They might have the strength to take out Aizen, at least as a group of not individually.

exacta
March 20, 2012, 11:18 AM
Well first of all, for all we know the Vandenreich might not have been around during the Winter War. At the very least the Vandenreich have some kind of connection to the bodies found in Szayel's lab. Also, it's not exactly like Aizen would share SS with them......Aizen wanted to replace the Soul King, and although we don't know what the Vandenreich's agenda is, if they also wanted to replace the Soul King then Aizen and them become enemies the moment SS is out of the picture. Aizen also wanted to destroy Karakura Town....if the Vandenreich are Quincy, then for all we know that could be against whatever their planning since Quincy want to protect humans too.

I think that what the Vandenreich is going to do is probably different though.....it seems like the Pluses in SS are disappearing. Maybe the Vandenreich wants to kidnap all the Pluses, move them to where their empire is located, and then destroy SS, and completely take over the Shinigami's job and serve as the new SS.

mattiaildivino
March 20, 2012, 04:23 PM
their palace doesn't hint anything,imo. except maybe that they are in a frozen place,which doesn't imply it's not hell,though. what surprised me is their boss: he is too similar to Zangetsu,notwithstanding he doesn't wear the bandage.

Trotter
March 20, 2012, 05:12 PM
One of the pillars of the palace had the Quincy Cross symbol on it.

Ancy
March 21, 2012, 05:30 PM
Apparently, they are at least associated with Quincy. Chances are they are evolved Quincies. The strange is they are humans, unlike spirit entities that are Shingami and Hollow. May be they found a way to obtain their powers. Yet when Ivan appeared, Hiyori picked up the scent of a shinigami...My theory is that these guys are hybrids (Quincy-Shinigami-Arrancar)

Trotter
March 21, 2012, 06:47 PM
Could very easily be an Arrancar who was a Quincy in his human life and retained his powers.

Ancy
March 22, 2012, 09:09 AM
Could very easily be an Arrancar who was a Quincy in his human life and retained his powers.

Just wondering how do Quincies become Arrancars!!?... As far as I know, a soul that becomes a hollow loses its heart and mind at some point. If one loses his/her mind, how will he/she remember the time before dying?? As a result, how will he/she know whether he/she has Quincy powers? The manga underlined that Espadas have the ability to reason and recall some of the past occurrences. But those flashbacks were from their Arrancar/Espada era...not from the time they were humans. Nevertheless, I'm curious what Kubo has in store for us when it comes to this.

It's an interesting way of looking at it, though.

Trotter
March 27, 2012, 03:53 PM
Quincy dies.

Quincy becomes Hollow.

Hollow is turned to Arrancar by Aizen.

Arrancar still retains Quincy powers.

Zanpakutou may be quincy cross?

Schabrak
April 19, 2012, 10:43 AM
To update the thread:

There are two types of Vandenreich soldiers, Arrancar working for the Quincy and true Quincy, some older than SS captains, some probably not.:P

Miyagi
April 19, 2012, 11:17 AM
They're quincies but it seems they don't have human bodies because as far as we know humans can't live that long in Bleach. So either they died as quincies and found a way to use their old quincy powers in afterlife or they are still alive and they preserve their bodies by a yet unknown method. The place where they live, Ice Palace, makes me wonder if their bodies are frozen. Of course if they really need to be alive to use quincy powers, otherwise there's no point in doing that.

Schabrak
April 19, 2012, 11:50 AM
Quincys exterminate souls, they would break one of their biggest sacrileges, if those were not human bodies. Using souls as pawns to win a thousand year old war might be the only exception they go with and as we can see, they kill most of those too anyway. They couldn't really say that they've waited a millenium, if they were encapsulated for the duration though.

Kurohitsugi
April 20, 2012, 03:48 AM
'Star Knights' sounds as a really badass name for the Reich's Elite Units. I hope they wear a sort of armor, like the Teutonic Knights -since Kubo has implemented Germanic element on the Quincies. That blond bishonen guy with the long hair should be one of them, I assume. I also don't think that they are human Quincies. They should have a short life span otherwise. Maybe they are the souls of the Quincies and they keep their real bodies in that Ice Palace? We shall see.

On another note there are some theories stuck in my head lately. I believe that a key factor in this whole story will be Mayuri and what found back in Szayel's lab. These facts are connected somehow. And for a reason I am sure that Aizen knew about those guys as well. I can't believe it's a coincidence Vandereich rise to power right and only after his fall.

devstauk
April 21, 2012, 09:58 PM
I recon Azein put the bodies somewhere Mayuri would find them, i also think that the bodies were Quincy but obviously the souls or they were guinea pigs for their new teleport, my other theory is that the true quincy's are actually exactly like SS but only as everyone keeps pointing out is more like the third reich then a proper society. The true quincy's managed to create there own Seireitei for Quincy but this ended up in a war with Soul Society, which ended up dividing alot of Shinigami up.

I think the Buckbeard and Captain Commander rivalry is blood related, but that's just because the title of the arc being Thousand Year Blood War, i personally think the base is located in one of two places one is under the Kurosaki clinc or where Uryu went and trained by himself and where mayuri's 2nd in command went to talk speak with him after he lost his abilities but these are all pretty much long shots.

thornofcarrion
April 23, 2012, 12:17 AM
How many Quincy do you think exist in Vandenreich? There shouldn't be many alive. What bothers me is their life span. I have pointed out earlier, Quincies are humans. They cannot live a life span of 100s of years. Unless, something happened.

devstauk
April 23, 2012, 06:51 AM
How many Quincy do you think exist in Vandenreich? There shouldn't be many alive. What bothers me is their life span. I have pointed out earlier, Quincies are humans. They cannot live a life span of 100s of years. Unless, something happened.

Unless they went soul form and tbh wouldnt they have to go soul form to attack SS or HM so makes sense they stayed indefinitely

kkck
April 24, 2012, 02:04 PM
I don't think an alliance with aizen was at any point viable. The main issue here is that it would be an awkward alliance where they would not trust each other. More so, the whole thing would be set up so that they would betray each other in the end. Aizen wasn't just one man either, he had 2 captains behind him and 10 captain level arrancar to boot along with the potential to use the orb to replace any fallen member reasonably fast. Being 13 strong (alongside with more VC level guys than what we care to count and ordinary menos and whatnot which exceed most regular seated officers) aizen and his army was effectively as strong as SS itself. Even if the two organizations fought together the one that would remain at the end would be the one with the most members left so as to take the other one.

devstauk
June 11, 2012, 03:55 PM
Buckbeard's gotta be ichigo's granddad surely! :nerd

NoOneInParticular
April 28, 2013, 12:03 PM
I was thinking about the Quincy, and I've got a little theory...

In Bleach, there are a few destinations for souls - Soul Society, Hueco Mundo and Hell. But no mention of a Heaven. The system is one of a cycle of reincarnation, with irredeemably corrupt souls being removed from the cycle and descending to Hell. So based on Eastern beliefs. The Quincy are based on an angelic theme, with German as their signature language, so they're evidently based on a Western theme.

What if there actually is a Heaven? Quincy are said to completely erase souls with their powers, but what if that's not true. What if when they 'kill' souls, they're actually sending them straight to Heaven or Hell as appropriate, as Shinigami send Souls to SS, which is just the destination preceding the soul's rebirth on Earth.

The Shinigami work to preserve a cycle of perpetual reincarnation, but the Quincy view be that this is wrong, and souls should live eternally in Heaven or Hell - Eastern vs. Western religious beliefs.

The Quincy might be agents of some deity in Heaven, as the Shinigami are agents of the Soul King. It could all come down to a power struggle between these two gods, with the god of Heaven being the true power, and Bach simply being his champion, or an angel.

Just a theory...