PDA

View Full Version : Discussion Black Aura: A Logical Q & A



Fayte
April 26, 2012, 01:55 PM
I've been noticing that this seems to be an elephant in the room in most discussions. Nobody wants to talk about it and everyone seems to think it is too mysterious. Let me answer some questions and confirm some myths so we can move on with our lives.

Q: Was Yukimura holding back against Sanada until the final point?
A: No.

Explanation:

-My first argument is: the first thing out of Sanada's mouth is "Don't hold back on me" (Ch.8 pp.6) But, maybe you're still not convinced.
-My second argument is "Why would they have the longest rally for the first point if Yukimura was holding back?" Had Yukimura been holding back, he could have easily gotten that first point on Sanada, being that they were tied for a long time (Ch.8 pp.15).
-My third argument is "Why would it take only 1 rally point for Sanada to get yipped, as opposed to it taking 4 games to use it on Echizen, if Yukimura was holding back?"
-My fourth argument is "Why would Sanada get all of his senses taken away at the same time (Ch.8 pp.18), as opposed to Echizen getting it taken one by one, if Yukimura was holding back?"
-My fifth argument is "Why would it be stated that Yukimura was showing no mercy, if he was holding back?" (Ch.9 pp.1).
-My sixth argument is "Why would Yukimura state he is indebted to Sanada to give him a 'battle without hesitation?' if Yukimura was holding back?" (Ch.9 pp.3)
-My seventh and last argument is "Yukimura said he was wrong in hoping that he would enjoy tennis today, not that he was getting serious because he was holding back." Sanada's shot almost broke his face, had he not moved his head out of the way. This, combined with the fear of Sanada in that state, caused Yukimura to have high stress, and therefore he was not enjoying tennis anymore (Ch.9 pp.10).

If you're still not convinced Yukimura was not holding back, despite all this evidence to the contrary, I'm sorry for you.

Q: Did Sanada really only use Black Aura for that one point?
A: Yes.

Explanation: The narration states "For a moment" Yukimura could not believe what he just saw. It also says "the black aura that 'engulfed' Sanada", which is past tense. Not only that, but the actual images show that Sanada does not have the aura around him anymore (Ch.9 pp.9) This indicates a start and a finish for what Sanada did. The last point Yukimura took on Sanada did not occur with Sanada being in the black aura state.

Q: Is Yukimura's reaction to the Black Aura different than when he played Echizen's Pinnacle of Perfection?
A: Yep, and he was more afraid with Sanada.

Explanation: Konomi went out of his way to mention Yukimura was struck with fear when he saw Sanada (Ch.9 pp.9), an emphasis that was not made with his match against Echizen. Not only that, but it says Yukimura couldn't believe what he saw. Why not? Didn't he already have some "aura-sighting" experience when he played PoP Echizen?

Also, you cannot fully compare the two events. Yukimura played a half a set with PoP Echizen, but saw BA Sanada for 1 point. Naturally, one would be more overwhelmed when something is continuously happening, rather than something happening and stopping in the moment. Would you be more overwhelmed if a tornado was engulfing your house for 30 minutes, or 5 seconds? Obviously relief always comes with closure. Yukimura was more overwhelmed with Echizen, but he was more afraid with Sanada.

Q: What is stronger between Black Aura and Pinnacle of Perfection?
A: Nobody knows, but logic says "they're the same."

Explanation: Due to the fact that Pinnacle of Perfection was already established, Black Aura being revealed after must say something. Is BA better than PoP? I find it hard to believe Konomi would release a new Aura that is better than the Aura of the OP main character who hasn't even mastered it yet, and the OP main captain. Does that mean BA is weaker than PoP? I also find it hard to believe Konomi would reveal a NEW AURA that is...actually..just weaker than PoP......That wouldn't make sense. That's like releasing a new 2013 Toyota with 2007 parts. That is just bad marketing. The only logical answer is "They are equal but different."

Q: Would Yukimura have gone to the mountains if Black Aura lasted longer?
A: Maybe?

Explanation: This answer relies entirely on what Konomi would have done with Yukimura. Obviously Yukimura would have lost if Black Aura lasted longer, so that's a given. The question is, would Konomi have developed his character or would he have written him off the series? If development is the route, then to the mountains he goes. If he were to be written off, then he would probably go to Germany or get another disease or something.

If you still have questions, I'll be happy to answer them in this post.

LetalHawk
April 26, 2012, 02:04 PM
Yukimura would have gone to the mountains if BA lasted longer?

Airgrimes
April 26, 2012, 02:08 PM
Good call. This actually does deserve its own thread.

Maybe Yukimura made the rally longer so that he could Yip him early on.

Your a comedian if you believe BA had Yuki more feared than TMnK. He said he was gonna get serious when he saw BA. He only froze for one shot and even smiled a little. This guy is terrified? I think not. He seems prepared. (http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-10/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html)

---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 PM ----------

Yukimura was in a tearful state I dont even want to recall against TMnK.

Fayte
April 26, 2012, 02:10 PM
Yukimura would have gone to the mountains if BA lasted longer?

My post is updated with your question.


Your a comedian if you believe BA had Yuki more feared than TMnK.

Your problem is not with me, it's with Konomi. I'm not the one who had to point out "Yukimura was afraid" in the match with Sanada, and NOT in the match with Echizen.


He said he was gonna get serious when he saw BA. He only froze for one shot and even smiled a little.

What are you reading? Nowhere does he says he will get serious. He was already serious. He said he wasn't enjoying tennis anymore, that's it. Unless you don't believe you can be serious and enjoy tennis at the same time. Also, that was not a smile.

Airgrimes
April 26, 2012, 02:39 PM
Your problem is not with me, it's with Konomi. I'm not the one who had to point out "Yukimura was afraid" in the match with Sanada, and NOT in the match with Echizen.
Nothing implies he was ''more'' scared. Konomi had Yuki scared of BA, but its not like he was more scared of it than TMnK.



What are you reading? Nowhere does he says he will get serious. He was already serious. He said he wasn't enjoying tennis anymore, that's it. Unless you don't believe you can be serious and enjoy tennis at the same time. Also, that was not a smile.
Konomi has implied he got more serious as we turn a page and Mr. Sanada is sent to the mountains.

Jyten
April 26, 2012, 02:46 PM
...Fayte no offense but you've been a long time Sanada fan boy, so I'm trying not to read this with this bias but really...

-My seventh and last argument is "Yukimura said he was wrong in hoping that he would enjoy tennis today, not that he was getting serious because he was holding back." Sanada's shot almost broke his face, had he not moved his head out of the way. This, combined with the fear of Sanada in that state, caused Yukimura to have high stress, and therefore he was not enjoying tennis anymore (Ch.9 pp.10).

...this is just one opinion not fact, yet...I believe his statement is really just him admitting that he lost to Echizen's "fun" tennis and was trying it out himself with Sanada. Once Sanada showed BA, he decided he was stronger with his old no-fun tennis. Even then Sanada was already completely screwed being Yipped and what not. BA did not get him out of yips like TnK did. Otherwise it wouldn't have been 7-1.

TnK vs BA

Tnk at least is better than BA against yips as BA didn't get Sanada out of Yips where as Tnk did. Also, Echizen beat Yuki with TnK. Sanada did not beat Yuki with BA. We really cannot say anything about BA till we see more then one shot. Now had BA lasted longer it might've gotten him out of Yips but this is pure speculation as it did not happen.

Yuki's reaction was different but irrelevant as Sanada still got stomped.

Yes, Sanada used BA as it's something we defined ourselves. It's just the black aura around him we have no idea if it was incomplete or not though.

I'm still a fan of discussing BA when it comes out. With how much "power" levels have been fluctuating in SPoT at this time anything can happen.

I'm more of a fan that's its closer to Tachibana's Moujuu Aura or perhaps the next level of Moujuu. Either way, Konomi will tell us whenever he gets around to it. Which will be in 8 months after two more matches of Atobe.....no, I'm not bitter at all.

Fayte
April 26, 2012, 03:06 PM
...Fayte no offense but you've been a long time Sanada fan boy, so I'm trying not to read this with this bias but really......this is just one opinion not fact, yet...

First of all, I am not a "Sanada fan boy," nor is any bias getting involved with my analysis. I am speaking entirely from a literary/mangaka point of view. Secondly, I never said any of my points were fact. I said they are logical conclusions.


I believe his statement is really just him admitting that he lost to Echizen's "fun" tennis and was trying it out himself with Sanada. Once Sanada showed BA, he decided he was stronger with his old no-fun tennis.

So you don't approve of my "not-facts" and you reply with your opinion that is even way more far fetched than mine? Where has it anywhere implied Yukimura was thinking of Echizen having fun playing tennis? It's nowhere. That is only what you WANT to believe. Yukimura was not stronger at the last point, he was the same. This is common knowledge.


Even then Sanada was already completely screwed being Yipped and what not. BA did not get him out of yips like TnK did. Otherwise it wouldn't have been 7-1.

Sanada DID break out of yips for that one point. Then he returned to being "out of it" mentally. That's why it was 7-1. That is borderline fact.


Tnk at least is better than BA against yips as BA didn't get Sanada out of Yips where as Tnk did.

Wrong.


Also, Echizen beat Yuki with TnK. Sanada did not beat Yuki with BA. We really cannot say anything about BA till we see more then one shot. Now had BA lasted longer it might've gotten him out of Yips but this is pure speculation as it did not happen.

What on EARTH are you talking about? It is FACT that Sanada broke out of the yips for that one point. How the hell else would he have GOTTEN the point? What you're saying is just absurd. Sanada didn't beat Yukimura with BA because it only lasted one point. *facepalm*

-Ken-
April 26, 2012, 03:22 PM
I'm more of a fan that's its closer to Tachibana's Moujuu Aura or perhaps the next level of Moujuu. Either way, Konomi will tell us whenever he gets around to it. Which will be in 8 months after two more matches of Atobe.....no, I'm not bitter at all.

8 months is assuming that Sanada is going right after this match. At the rate it's going right now, it's 3 months per match. That's 9 months in total for EACH 1st stringer match. This means 6 months left for Atobe match. And +9*n. n Being number of 1st stringer match before Sanada step out.

Man, I'm losing hope.

Brandnewkid
April 26, 2012, 03:39 PM
As for one of your arguments regarding whether or not Yukimura was holding back: I don't think that Yukimura has control over which senses he "takes." It's not as if he's controlling the opponent's sensory functions. They just randomly go one by one or all at the same time.

-Ken-
April 26, 2012, 03:41 PM
As for one of your arguments regarding whether or not Yukimura was holding back: I don't think that Yukimura has control over which senses he "takes." It's not as if he's controlling the opponent's sensory functions. They just randomly go one by one or all at the same time.

Pair Puri prove otherwise, though. It shows that Yukimura can take away people taste at will. Although, admittedly, it's just a joke XD.

Airgrimes
April 26, 2012, 04:19 PM
So you don't approve of my "not-facts" and you reply with your opinion that is even way more far fetched than mine? Where has it anywhere implied Yukimura was thinking of Echizen having fun playing tennis? It's nowhere. That is only what you WANT to believe. Yukimura was not stronger at the last point, he was the same. This is common knowledge.


Its what YOU want to believe.
Yukimura did not look like he was attacking like he seemed once Sanada was blind, or during his match against Ryoma. I honestly dont think they were truly equal in the rally for the first point. Lets be honest, when someone is relaxed and talking while your giving them your finishing shots, it means they are not that serious in this series.

Jyten
April 26, 2012, 04:45 PM
Sanada DID break out of yips for that one point. Then he returned to being "out of it" mentally. That's why it was 7-1. That is borderline fact.

What on EARTH are you talking about? It is FACT that Sanada broke out of the yips for that one point. How the hell else would he have GOTTEN the point? What you're saying is just absurd. Sanada didn't beat Yukimura with BA because it only lasted one point. *facepalm*

Meh, he might've broken out of Yips as he retained his senses since he could serve right after. Or at least it looks like it either way, but BA was just 1 point. You're speculating too much.

Also, you can easily take 1 point by just aiming for a spot on the opposing side and hitting as hard as you can. Someone like Sanada can probably easily hit a ball like that a thousand times with out his senses. Given how much he practices. It's freaking muscle memory at that point. This is not an absurd statement.

The only reason I'm giving you anything is that he seems to serve at least once afterwards.

But in my mind Tnk > BA still. So, you can believe what you want but at the moment we've seen jack of BA. We don't know the limits of what it can do or how long Sanada can sustain it. 1 shot simply isn't enough to make any real analysis on.

Also, Yuki was beaten by Echizen playing fun tennis that's how TnK even works and he knew he was losing to fun tennis by the third to the last chapter. Tnk broke his law of kings as Yuki. It's not a far fetched idea to try out the "move" that beat you. Nearly all high level play does this in nearly all fields. Yuki not doing it is more weird.

...and the fact that your still harping about BA after like what 3 ish years (second time we saw it doesn't count as he did nothing). Makes you look suspiciously like a Sanada fanboy if anything.

If anything we should be discussing more of the limits of AK, or the limits of whatever version of Yips Yuki used against Fuwa,. I know we tried to figure out GUYU a while back too. Either way, all of these moves have far more recent data.

Fayte
April 26, 2012, 10:51 PM
Meh, he might've broken out of Yips as he retained his senses since he could serve right after. Or at least it looks like it either way, but BA was just 1 point. You're speculating too much.

Also, you can easily take 1 point by just aiming for a spot on the opposing side and hitting as hard as you can. Someone like Sanada can probably easily hit a ball like that a thousand times with out his senses. Given how much he practices. It's freaking muscle memory at that point. This is not an absurd statement.

Again, your hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.


But in my mind Tnk > BA still. So, you can believe what you want but at the moment we've seen jack of BA. We don't know the limits of what it can do or how long Sanada can sustain it. 1 shot simply isn't enough to make any real analysis on.

There we go again.


...and the fact that your still harping about BA after like what 3 ish years (second time we saw it doesn't count as he did nothing). Makes you look suspiciously like a Sanada fanboy if anything.

I guess the rest of the people on this forum are Sanada fanboys too, because their constant reference to BA is the reason I made this topic. But hey, I guess we can take the illogical route and say I'm a fanboy instead. That'll do the trick.


If anything we should be discussing more of the limits of AK, or the limits of whatever version of Yips Yuki used against Fuwa,. I know we tried to figure out GUYU a while back too. Either way, all of these moves have far more recent data.

Okay, go for it. Make your topic.

Brandnewkid
April 26, 2012, 11:01 PM
If anything we should be discussing more of the limits of AK, or the limits of whatever version of Yips Yuki used against Fuwa,. I know we tried to figure out GUYU a while back too. Either way, all of these moves have far more recent data.

Atobe Kingdom, contrary to popular belief, is not actually Atobe gaining X-Ray vision. He just gains extreme insight and Konomi artistically expresses that by showing the opponent's bones. Yes, I must point this out because there are people who actually believe that he gained X-Ray vision.

I don't even think Yukimura inflicted the Yips onto Fuwa. Rather, they just played a regular game and Yukimura's returns were just too much, causing Fuwa to collapse. Yukimura is probably gonna have winning curb-stomp battles in the future.

Illusion to a Waking Dream is Yamamoto using the opponent's habits against them, thinking that the ball will go somewhere when it's actually . . . somewhere else. Son of a bitch, he's so clever. I think Kamikakushi still beats it.

-Ken-
April 26, 2012, 11:38 PM
Atobe Kingdom, contrary to popular belief, is not actually Atobe gaining X-Ray vision. He just gains extreme insight and Konomi artistically expresses that by showing the opponent's bones. Yes, I must point this out because there are people who actually believe that he gained X-Ray vision.

Irie, with his "Understanding" disagree. Here,

http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/44/3

Irie can see through the heart. This is probably accurate to a certain extent. So, to support seeing Skeleton, we had the manga itself showing Atobe looking at his opponents skeleton and Irie's thought to support it. I don't think it's fair to make that assumption.


Illusion to a Waking Dream is Yamamoto using the opponent's habits against them, thinking that the ball will go somewhere when it's actually . . . somewhere else. Son of a bitch, he's so clever. I think Kamikakushi still beats it.

Kamikakushi doesn't beat it. Tezuka and Chitose were going back and forth with Kamikakushi forever. However, Tezuka had more trouble with GUYU. That suggest to me GUYU is stronger than Kamikakushi.

Brandnewkid
April 27, 2012, 02:00 AM
Irie, with his "Understanding" disagree. Here,

http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/44/3

Irie can see through the heart. This is probably accurate to a certain extent. So, to support seeing Skeleton, we had the manga itself showing Atobe looking at his opponents skeleton and Irie's thought to support it. I don't think it's fair to make that assumption.

Yo, you are taking the lines of the characters too literally. He didn't mean he can literally read his heart; to "read one's heart" is a common expression in Japanese which means to "know someone's actions." Mukahi says it to Oshitari Yuushi at some point to. What Irie was doing was putting a play on that, to show that Atobe has gone beyond "knowing someone's actions," but to read their skeleton, to "know all of their movements."



Kamikakushi doesn't beat it. Tezuka and Chitose were going back and forth with Kamikakushi forever. However, Tezuka had more trouble with GUYU. That suggest to me GUYU is stronger than Kamikakushi.

Really? Because once it was explained how GUYU worked, it was nothing.

-Ken-
April 27, 2012, 02:22 AM
Yo, you are taking the lines of the characters too literally. He didn't mean he can literally read his heart; to "read one's heart" is a common expression in Japanese which means to "know someone's actions." Mukahi says it to Oshitari Yuushi at some point to. What Irie was doing was putting a play on that, to show that Atobe has gone beyond "knowing someone's actions," but to read their skeleton, to "know all of their movements."

I can see how read one's heart can mean know someone action. But I really can't see how read one's skeleton mean know all of their movement. Is that also a saying? I can't find it in google search, at least.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v04/c044/

In this page, it heavily suggest that Atobe see the spot that it's impossible for the bone and joint to move to. You can read it as just knowing one's movement if you want. But you can't blame people for reading it as Atobe's able to look for those blind spot though seeing their skeleton.

I think the manga supports mine theory more than yours, but you're welcome to find example in the manga that shows Atobe was simply reading movement if you want. And I might accept that depending how solid your evidence look. But just judging from how Atobe used it in the manga that I show so far, I'm going with my explanation for now.


Really? Because once it was explained how GUYU worked, it was nothing.

Yes? Otherwise, please explained to me how Kamikakushi seemed to be more powerful than GUYU. Because I don't see Tezuka had any problem with it at all.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/prince_of_tennis/c333/10.html

He returned the first Kamikakshi used. And this is Tezuka pre-U-17 camp. And you know how the manga mentioned U-17 boost all ability. And you can go back and look at how many game it takes until Tezuka returned GUYU.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v04/c037/3.html

It's a lot more than the first ball. I'm just seeing it from how it actually works here, rather than opinion. He counter it before by using Tezuka Phantom. But Tezuka Phantom is a lot more than simply returning the ball. It's used before to counter Rai. I'm not saying that GUYU is Rai level techniques, because it's not. But I think it show that it's higher techniques than Kamikakshi.

Airgrimes
April 27, 2012, 12:16 PM
Really? Because once it was explained how GUYU worked, it was nothing.
I agree with Ken.
Not really. Even after being explained, only Tezuka Phantom defeated it for a long time, then for some few points Tezuka was able to defeat in the FINAL game of the match, and if it finished 6-4, it mean it took a LONG time.
Kamikakushi was returned with Super Rising. You think Super Rising can handle GUYU? I doubt it.

---------- Post added at 11:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------

Back on topic, I'll accept BA is equal to TMnK and accepted this ages ago as much as I dont like Sanada and I have looked time and time again for evidence against it coz Sanada is lame.

However, the evidence that Yukimura was going all-out like Sanada was is not solid enough at all.
Tezuka VS Sanada for 1st point was dead serious, Tezuka was NOT talking casually while returning the shots. Yukimura was.

Sanada is using his strongest technique at that point and can only laugh coz for the readers, we know that after Lightning for Sanada is nothing.
http://www.mangareader.net/343-24389-11/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-8.html

Did Sanada us BA for 1 point? The evidence for that is strong. In fact, Im certain it was for one point, as Yuki creamed him within a pg with out BA, if Sanada had BA, we wouldnt simply turn the page and see him Sanada sent to the mountains.

At 4-1, Yuki VS Sanada w/out BA instantly becomes 7-1, no yips involved, only a dog could still say Yukimura and Sanada w/out BA are equal.

But LOL at Yuki being more scared of BA than TMnK, as much as he is my fav, he was shitting himself at both and its not possible to compare.

LetalHawk
April 27, 2012, 01:36 PM
Yukimura hates those auras. When Sanada activated it, Yukimura played all out and finished the match quickly to prevent Sanada from using it again.

Yukimura wasn't that scared of Tenimuhou. He was more afraid of Sanada's aura, so BA might be equal to Tenimuhou and gives a "scarier" feeling to the player.

Jyten
April 27, 2012, 01:58 PM
Again, your hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me. Wow, you don't even agree to that. Wow, do you compete at a high level in anything? Because if you did you'd know this is more than normal. Muscle memory is standard for anyone that practices at something a lot.


There we go again. BA Sanada lost (whether he could maintain it or not), TnK Echizen stomped (His one serve was so fast even the ref couldn't see it let alone Yuki, more over it seems super easy to maintain as both Echizen and Tezuka had zero issues using it when they activated it). This is fact you can't disagree with this.


I guess the rest of the people on this forum are Sanada fanboys too, because their constant reference to BA is the reason I made this topic. But hey, I guess we can take the illogical route and say I'm a fanboy instead. That'll do the trick. It's possible, there are good reasons I don't post here anymore. Also, it's 1 freaking shot The fact your arguing that 1 shot from BA automatically makes it on the same level or the same strength as the final aura of PoT and the aura that got Tezuka removed from SPoT is silly.

Maybe after we see Sanada actually use it we can make better assumptions. But that's all your doing right now assumptions same as me.


Okay, go for it. Make your topic. Too lazy don't care.

Fayte
April 27, 2012, 02:06 PM
However, the evidence that Yukimura was going all-out like Sanada was is not solid enough at all.
Tezuka VS Sanada for 1st point was dead serious, Tezuka was NOT talking casually while returning the shots. Yukimura was.

No, the evidence you are bringing right now is not solid enough. I gave 7 arguments for the opposite, and you have not given a good counter argument to any of them. Tezuka is serious by nature. He never holds back, just like Sanada. Yukimura is serious the second he uses Yips. That much was already shown from the Echizen match. You mean to tell me he wasn't serious then too? You're letting Yukimura bias get the best of you. Yukimura was serious against Sanada just as much as Sanada was serious aganist Yukimura.


At 4-1, Yuki VS Sanada w/out BA instantly becomes 7-1, no yips involved, only a dog could still say Yukimura and Sanada w/out BA are equal.

I don't understand this statement. At all. First of all, it wasn't 4-1, it was 6-0 when Sanada uses BA and got the point, making it 6-1, and Yukimura gets the last point making it 7-1. Also, I don't know what you're talking about with the "no yips involved." Yukimura couldn't get a point without Sanada being under Yips.


But LOL at Yuki being more scared of BA than TMnK, as much as he is my fav, he was shitting himself at both and its not possible to compare.

Again, you are going against the text. Konomi specifically wrote and noted that Yukimura was afraid of the black aura. DONT YOU THINK THAT WAS A LITTLE OBVIOUS BY HIS FACE? And yet Konomi ALSO wrote it for emphasis. "YUKIMURA = AFRAID RITE NOW GUISE." Why wouldn't he do the same emphasis with his match against Echizen? Your argument is completely ignoring literary observations.

Airgrimes
April 27, 2012, 03:55 PM
Again, you are going against the text. Konomi specifically wrote and noted that Yukimura was afraid of the black aura. DONT YOU THINK THAT WAS A LITTLE OBVIOUS BY HIS FACE? And yet Konomi ALSO wrote it for emphasis. "YUKIMURA = AFRAID RITE NOW GUISE." Why wouldn't he do the same emphasis with his match against Echizen? Your argument is completely ignoring literary observations.

Coz it was the final match of the franchise. He didnt know he was doing a sequel. No need for emphasis on fear.


No, the evidence you are bringing right now is not solid enough. I gave 7 arguments for the opposite, and you have not given a good counter argument to any of them. Tezuka is serious by nature. He never holds back, just like Sanada. Yukimura is serious the second he uses Yips. That much was already shown from the Echizen match. You mean to tell me he wasn't serious then too? You're letting Yukimura bias get the best of you. Yukimura was serious against Sanada just as much as Sanada was serious aganist Yukimura.
No. Just no. Your fantastically wrong.
Konomi states that Yips is Yukimura's ability and not technique. Which means the opponent is getting yipped whether he is serious or not. Konomi states its due to his presence and says to readers to think of it as a ''Yukimura World''. The fanbooks have Yuki yip Inoue the Newspaper guy while speaking to him.
He doesnt ''use'' yips, its a part of him as stated by Konomi so as long as he is winning, the opponent is getting yipped.

Im letting Yukimura bias get the best of me? I dont want to hear that from you of all people. Your a joker coz your just as bias about Sanada as I am about Yukimura or more. You actually put down other characters when constantly hyping up Sanada and BA. Youve even said before that he is the level of main character Plotpowered!Echizen Ryoma and for some reason assume say he can hit 10 balls at a time without proof and simply assumption.
You have somehow forgotten that Sanada was confidently pissed on w/out BA. Yips is the ability not the technique and is a part of Yuki and not something he needs to ''use''.

If you can't accept Yukimura schooled Sanada like a lame brat w/out BA then you really are just a fan boy. I have accepted Yukimura was absolutely scared at that moment as Konomi stated he was. I also accept Yukimura was all over him and finishing him completely w/out BA. Logic tells me to do so.



I don't understand this statement. At all. First of all, it wasn't 4-1, it was 6-0 when Sanada uses BA and got the point, making it 6-1, and Yukimura gets the last point making it 7-1. Also, I don't know what you're talking about with the "no yips involved." Yukimura couldn't get a point without Sanada being under Yips.

Your english is great so you have no excuse for not understanding. First of all it WAS 4-1.
At 4-0 we are here (http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-4/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html), He swings like a pathetic joker where the score hasnt changed (http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-5/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html), then he gets his first point (http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-6/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html).

Your a real comedian. Sanada wasnt yipped after 4-1, and even if you wrongly say it was 6-1, Sanada wasnt yipped but within a page he got a point. So... You SHOULD no what i'm talking about that Yukimura outplayed Sanada w/out BA as he got a point but Sanada showed no hope of getting a point of Yuki in the whole tie-break w/out BA.

LetalHawk
April 27, 2012, 04:47 PM
@Fayte, the score was 4-0, then 4-1, Yukimura got serious and destroyed him 7-1.

Yukimura walks over Sanada without Black Aura, Yukimura returns easily FuRinKaInZanRai and he plays like he is joking around. When he yips Sanada because of the long rally, he didn't expect BA to appear. He probably learned of when he played against Echizen and finished Sanada quickly.

Sanada without BA can't do a thing against Yukimura, but after training Sanada is probably another world compared to when he left. Still, we have to see if BA is enough against Yukimura as in a full match Yukimura could get used to it and counter it.

ashore
April 27, 2012, 06:29 PM
u can count as afraid, as afraid to lose one 's life. sanada black aura shot aimed at yukimura's head, and he barley dodged it. and the shot was strong
that it took off yukimura's headband. and also he couldnt return the shot. but probably yuki can after he seen it once.

Fayte
April 27, 2012, 11:04 PM
No. Just no. Your fantastically wrong.
Konomi states that Yips is Yukimura's ability and not technique. He doesnt ''use'' yips, its a part of him as stated by Konomi so as long as he is winning, the opponent is getting yipped.

Lol.


Im letting Yukimura bias get the best of me? I dont want to hear that from you of all people. Your a joker coz your just as bias about Sanada as I am about Yukimura or more. You actually put down other characters when constantly hyping up Sanada and BA. Youve even said before that he is the level of main character Plotpowered!Echizen Ryoma and for some reason assume say he can hit 10 balls at a time without proof and simply assumption.
You have somehow forgotten that Sanada was confidently pissed on w/out BA. Yips is the ability not the technique and is a part of Yuki and not something he needs to ''use''.

Right, I guess Yukimura is the only character that just has supernatural powers that activate without him being consciously involved. The stuff Yuki fans come up with is just silly.


If you can't accept Yukimura schooled Sanada like a lame brat w/out BA then you really are just a fan boy.

Your language tells me you're the fanboy.


Your english is great so you have no excuse for not understanding. First of all it WAS 4-1.
At 4-0 we are here (http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-4/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html), He swings like a pathetic joker where the score hasnt changed (http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-5/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html), then he gets his first point (http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-6/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html).

Your a real comedian. Sanada wasnt yipped after 4-1, and even if you wrongly say it was 6-1, Sanada wasnt yipped but within a page he got a point. So... You SHOULD no what i'm talking about that Yukimura outplayed Sanada w/out BA as he got a point but Sanada showed no hope of getting a point of Yuki in the whole tie-break w/out BA.

Wow are you serious? Okay, I guess with YOUR logic (using the word loosely) Yukimura got 3 points with 1 swing of the racquet? Wow! I guess he really IS something to accomplish that feat. You'd say "No, Konomi just didn't show the other two points and just showed the last one." EXACTLY. It was 4-0 when Yukimura SERVED. Sanada MISSED the ball, so that is already 5-0. Logic tells me the mystery point happens here, as Yukimura takes another point (6-0) before Sanada goes BA, which would be 6-1. That's when Yukimura gets that last point to make it 7-1.

You probably still wont believe me so we'll just have to wait until the OVA.

-Ken-
April 27, 2012, 11:13 PM
Lol.

It's weird, but true. Here

http://fanbook.livejournal.com/29508.html


Yukimura's "Yips" is not a play style or an ability.
Yukimura's strength by itself causes those around him to inadvertently tense up.
It might feel like "The World of Yukimura"? I wanted to show an absolute existence, a transcendental feeling.

Airgrimes
April 28, 2012, 01:48 AM
Lol.



Right, I guess Yukimura is the only character that just has supernatural powers that activate without him being consciously involved. The stuff Yuki fans come up with is just silly.

Check Ken's post. Your full of ignorance. Your such a fanboy that you think you know better than what Konomi stated in his OWN fanbook.





Your language tells me you're the fanboy.
LOL Your being a clown, no matter which way you look at the story, for at least one point, Yukimura outplayed Sanada w/out BA and got a point.
Also, Sanada was yipped and shots hitting his face and he looked helpless and pathetic. If you didnt see that and was blinded by your love for Sanada then you really are just a fanboy.




Wow are you serious? Okay, I guess with YOUR logic (using the word loosely) Yukimura got 3 points with 1 swing of the racquet? Wow! I guess he really IS something to accomplish that feat. You'd say "No, Konomi just didn't show the other two points and just showed the last one." EXACTLY. It was 4-0 when Yukimura SERVED. Sanada MISSED the ball, so that is already 5-0. Logic tells me the mystery point happens here, as Yukimura takes another point (6-0) before Sanada goes BA, which would be 6-1. That's when Yukimura gets that last point to make it 7-1.
Yeah im serious, and if you dont believe me, your STILL incorrect coz it means Yukimura took a point off unyipped Sanada meaning he outplayed him. Sanada showed no hope of getting a point off Yukimura w/out his BA. Your a joke if you cant accept that.

Also, your LOGIC (I have no choice the word loosely for you too) says that We did not see Yukimura swing again after 4-0, there is NO signs of anymore points coz after 5-0. it would have been Sanada's serve and we didnt see him serve.

1-0 Yukimura's serve, 2-0 and 3-0 Sanada's serve, 4-0 and 5-0 Yuki's, 6-0 Sanada's and we never saw him serve at that point.
So if you think its plausible that Sanada may have served without us seeing and that Konomi missed out those scenes as I clearly showed you Yuki hit the ball AT him instead of just trying to get points as he was schooling Sanada and that they never showed Yukimura hit the ball again at 5-0 or 6-0 then you aren't serious about this and never intended to change your outlook on things.

He swings like a pathetic joker where the score hasnt changed (http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-5/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html), then he gets his first point (http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-6/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html).

In these two consecutive pages, how do you gather that it went from 4-0 to 6-0??
Yukimura was shown standing still.
Please explain.



You probably still wont believe me so we'll just have to wait until the OVA.
Oh... The ANIME is what we should go by?
No. Not for canon stuff. Also, can you explain to me why you think Konomi skipped the scenes of Yukimura hitting the ball and getting points and 5-0 and 6-0 and how its ''impossible'' that he skipped the points of 5-1 and 6-1? Coz that's where the logic points towards.

ashore
April 28, 2012, 10:31 AM
@fayte

yukimura was and wasn't holding back against sanada. We see yukimura's thoughts during his match with sanada, taht he is indeed serious.

IMHO yukimura's seriousness =put opponent in yips, embarrass them, all while defeating the opponent. He speculatively does that to all his opponents, thus why he would use this tactic against his friend out of respect.

I theorize while opponents are in yips he hits the tennis ball (due to his good ball control) to aim it at the opponent. (thus embarrassing them and winning slowly)

After black aura atk from sanada, yukimura i believe changed his play style to beat the opponent as fast as possible.
it's just a different playstyle / tactic, but still serious.

ANnother example is atobe's playstyle. He is still serious regardless of his play style and seeks to win.

Atobe style 1: play the war of attrition and drag out matches to exploit an opponents weakness
atobe style 2: play ultra aggressive and atk all the time

BOth styles for atobe are serious and are used to gain victory. I hope that helps to understand what it means by yukimura's seriousness versus sanada.

Airgrimes
April 28, 2012, 12:46 PM
@fayte

yukimura was and wasn't holding back against sanada. We see yukimura's thoughts during his match with sanada, taht he is indeed serious.

IMHO yukimura's seriousness =put opponent in yips, embarrass them, all while defeating the opponent. He speculatively does that to all his opponents, thus why he would use this tactic against his friend out of respect.
Why come here to talk nonsense?
Read the above posts that Ken and I did. Yips comes naturally when facing Yukimura. Its not something he ''activates'' or ''uses''. Read before talking crap.
At no point does Yukimura say he wants to embarass his opponent once he has blinded them.



I theorize while opponents are in yips he hits the tennis ball (due to his good ball control) to aim it at the opponent. (thus embarrassing them and winning slowly)
No. Not for embarassment. Its just how he is. Otherwise he would have said its to embarass him. Remember the flashback Konomi did to show they are best friends.



After black aura atk from sanada, yukimura i believe changed his play style to beat the opponent as fast as possible.
it's just a different playstyle / tactic, but still serious.
No dude. Sanada stopped using BA and w/out BA as the story showed us, Yuki > Sanada w/out BA.



ANnother example is atobe's playstyle. He is still serious regardless of his play style and seeks to win.

Atobe style 1: play the war of attrition and drag out matches to exploit an opponents weakness
atobe style 2: play ultra aggressive and atk all the time

BOth styles for atobe are serious and are used to gain victory. I hope that helps to understand what it means by yukimura's seriousness versus sanada.

I see what your saying.
To be honest, if nobody can give evidence that Yukimura NEVER took a point of an un-yipped Sanada then fine, but no matter which way you look at it, Yukimura w/out Yips > Sanada w/out BA and its foolish to say otherwise as Yukimura still won after the BA revealance and Sanada was NOT under the effect of yips.
Yukimura's expression completely changed and we see him instantly take points off Sanada within the turn of a page.

LetalHawk
April 28, 2012, 01:15 PM
1. Yukimura wasn't playing at full strength until Sanada released BA.

2. Sanada showed BA, Yukimura was very afraid of that: "the sudden fear that went through his mind, Yukimura couldn't believe what he saw". THEN, "I expected to enjoy some tennis today, guess I was wrong".

3. After saying that, he gets totally serious and plays without holding back at full strength. The score right there is 4-1, then quickly goes to 7-1.

That's how it is. Yukimura walks over Sanada without BA. There's no way Sanada without BA can score a point against Yuki.

Airgrimes
April 28, 2012, 01:49 PM
1. Yukimura wasn't playing at full strength until Sanada released BA.

2. Sanada showed BA, Yukimura was very afraid of that: "the sudden fear that went through his mind, Yukimura couldn't believe what he saw". THEN, "I expected to enjoy some tennis today, guess I was wrong".

3. After saying that, he gets totally serious and plays without holding back at full strength. The score right there is 4-1, then quickly goes to 7-1.

That's how it is. Yukimura walks over Sanada without BA. There's no way Sanada without BA can score a point against Yuki.

Its this simple.
Sanada stunned and scared completely Yuki when BA arrived, but w/out BA Sanada stands no chance.
I look forward to a fanboy reply from Fayte.

DavenSodan
April 28, 2012, 05:10 PM
Well, I think even without Yips, Yukimura would have won 7-1 (given that Sanada then unlocks BA). Why? How many times did Sanada use teleportation against Tezuka until his legs gave in? 9 games I believe it was. So that were 36 points. One teleportation for each "rally" and the ball was either unreturnable for Tezuka or did land outside the court. So there were, lets say, a maximum of 40 teleportations there and a bit of running around.

Sanada needed to use Rai as soon as the first few balls were hit, because Yukimura doesnt just returns everything, but also does that in a aggresive way to score winners. So Sanada, w/o the use of Rai there would have already lost the point there. Then, Wind and Fire were returned with normal shots.
Normal shots.
Normal.

Playing a whole set, how long could Sanada last? Yeah, he played on par with Yukimura but he was not only going all out like Yukimura, but also he needed to hurt his body to do so. A major disadvantage.

In fact, as we know, Yukiumura can do this with every ball, no matter how long the point lasts. How long until Sanada is forced to use more than 40 teleportations? I think his legs would have gave in and he would have been unable to move after a 5-10 minute rally.

About BA, we know nothing about it except that it allowed Sanada to hit a very very fast/strong shot and Yukimura was feared for a moment. The rest isnt told and open to interpredation or speculation.

Maybe to clarify:
http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-4/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html
Yuki was serving at 4-0 and had one serve left. Then, at the left bottom of the page we see the ball went past Sanada. So it was an ace. Sanada swings randomly in any directions, activates BA through willpower (do we actually know?) and then serves.

http://www.mangareader.net/343-24390-7/new-prince-of-tennis/chapter-9.html
Here it seems like Sanada hit the shot not as a serve because he is standing way to far into the court and not at the baseline.

Its 5-1 and Yuki takes the last two points.

So did Sanada break out of yips for one point and was he yiped againt right after that? Or was he able to hit that BA serve even with yips kicked in?

Now both have advanced their skills through training. How is the better now? Nobody knows. What Konomi will do is entirly up to him. He could go the typical shounen manga way. He could not. Saying I know what he is going to do makes as much sense as the ending of Mass Effect 3.

ashore
April 28, 2012, 06:39 PM
@airgrimes I apologize for not replying to other posts in other threads.. i dont know how to multi quote your replies. and I didnt wish to use up much time to try to prove my point. meaning, I have my own opinions and if others disagree that's fine with me. And usually if people dont reply that may be perceived that they gave up on their argument and silently admit they were view points were wrong, but in my case It doesn't hold true. at some point, I just dont want to push my theories and opinions on others.



yukimura was and wasn't holding back against sanada. We see yukimura's thoughts during his match with sanada, taht he is indeed serious.

IMHO yukimura's seriousness =put opponent in yips, embarrass them, all while defeating the opponent. He speculatively does that to all his opponents, thus why he would use this tactic against his friend out of respect.
Why come here to talk nonsense?

Read the above posts that Ken and I did. Yips comes naturally when facing Yukimura. Its not something he ''activates'' or ''uses''. Read before talking crap.
At no point does Yukimura say he wants to embarrass his opponent once he has blinded them.

I read your posts with Ken, its more like ken and you agreeing on activation.

If you have a skill that is mental or internal, i don't believe you have it on all the time. So the skill must be turned on and off, thereby being activated when it's needed for use and deactivated when not in use. You say its just happens naturally, I think you mean it works effortlessly or yukimura. It sounds like the yips techniques requires no energy and just a uses mere thought. could be true i for one don't believe mental techniques are so easy. its a difference of opinion.

I believe is that yips has to be directed to an opponent. this is not a technique like hitting a super serve or super shot, there fore it must be turned on or activated. If there is no mental projection, or mental direction to a specific person, then people in the audience would get yips on accident. also direction/projection usually requires focus and requires mental stamina.

Yukimura doesn't say he wants to embarrass his opponent true, (I am speculating about his play-style (I can admit I may be wrong ) going by his actions,

My question is does an expert player need to keep hitting the ball at an opponent who is near helpless to return the ball?
Yukimura can lob shots, he could aim his serves in different ways to avoid the opponent, do underhand serves, his skills could probably control the ball in other ways. THis may suggest that he hits the ball at an opponent who cant return to make them look dumb purposefully. This ensures sanada is treated with the same respect by subjecting sanada to the same process other opponents yukimura plays.
I can only state echizen's match with him as a reference, where the ball ends up hitting echizen, usually while the opponent is standing most still. Also sanada's clothing is shown as dirty at the end of the match with yukimura, since sanada didnt give up (by lying down on the ground forfeiting the match in mental anguish) and the end score shows so. also we see that a ball gets hit at sanada. (note: manga may be boring if same pictures are drawn ie being hit with the ball, so 1 picture could makes it point and doesn't have to be redrawn)

again i stress yukimura can aim the ball anyway he likes due to his skill level to avoid hitting the opponent after the a ball bounces, but he chooses not to.



Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
I theorize while opponents are in yips he hits the tennis ball (due to his good ball control) to aim it at the opponent. (thus embarrassing them and winning slowly)
No. Not for embarassment. Its just how he is. Otherwise he would have said its to embarass him. Remember the flashback Konomi did to show they are best friends.


It doesn't matter if they are friends, yukimura out of respect for sanada will give him the same treatment as he does his other opponents is my understanding.
that's how yuki treats his opponents while under yips.(IMHO) I explained partially above.
He said he couldn't have some fun after being atked by sanada with black aura.

if a person is disabled in yips mode presumably unable to move, see, hear, or sense. then why is it fun for yukimura to play an opponent in such a state? One conclusion is he enjoys that kind of tennis to hit the ball at the opponent, and seeing that they cant return it. or worse he's a sadistic person who likes to see his opponents suffer then give up or he likes easy wins w/o much trouble?

So if you put sanada in yips and this action causes him to evolve his skills into a new power I.e. black aura. yukimura can't have fun no more, he has to end the match asap and with full aggressiveness or he will risk losing. (luckily sanada doesn't seem to control his black aura or sustain it.) In any case given what yukimura saw, he decides to go all out seriousness and end the match asap.

another example is tezuka vs echizen (train station match)

tezuka was playing semi serious, but i believe tezuka saw the samurai ghost
from echizen, TEzuka.. said screw this I'm gonna beat him asap.!! presumably before something happens.


Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
After black aura atk from sanada, yukimura i believe changed his play style to beat the opponent as fast as possible.
it's just a different playstyle / tactic, but still serious.
No dude. Sanada stopped using BA and w/out BA as the story showed us, Yuki > Sanada w/out BA.

I never stated that black aura was in continuous use please read above I dont contest sanada is better than yuki in any regards.

but as I explained above, yukimura appears to want do defeat sanada asap or risk sanada evolving or defeating yukimura.

Kaoz
April 29, 2012, 03:10 AM
My question is does an expert player need to keep hitting the ball at an opponent who is near helpless to return the ball?
Yukimura can lob shots, he could aim his serves in different ways to avoid the opponent, do underhand serves, his skills could probably control the ball in other ways. THis may suggest that he hits the ball at an opponent who cant return to make them look dumb purposefully.

[...]

again i stress yukimura can aim the ball anyway he likes due to his skill level to avoid hitting the opponent after the a ball bounces, but he chooses not to.


I would interpret this as him wanting to give Sanada a chance to actually hit the ball. Against Echizen he just blasts the shots past him, whereas against Sanada he just hits it back to him.

Airgrimes
April 29, 2012, 04:38 AM
IMHO yukimura's seriousness =put opponent in yips, embarrass them, all while defeating the opponent. He speculatively does that to all his opponents, thus why he would use this tactic against his friend out of respect.
Why come here to talk nonsense?

Read the above posts that Ken and I did. Yips comes naturally when facing Yukimura. Its not something he ''activates'' or ''uses''. Read before talking crap.
At no point does Yukimura say he wants to embarrass his opponent once he has blinded them.

I read your posts with Ken, its more like ken and you agreeing on activation.

If you have a skill that is mental or internal, i don't believe you have it on all the time. So the skill must be turned on and off, thereby being activated when it's needed for use and deactivated when not in use. You say its just happens naturally, I think you mean it works effortlessly or yukimura. It sounds like the yips techniques requires no energy and just a uses mere thought. could be true i for one don't believe mental techniques are so easy. its a difference of opinion.

I believe is that yips has to be directed to an opponent. this is not a technique like hitting a super serve or super shot, there fore it must be turned on or activated. If there is no mental projection, or mental direction to a specific person, then people in the audience would get yips on accident. also direction/projection usually requires focus and requires mental stamina.

Yukimura doesn't say he wants to embarrass his opponent true, (I am speculating about his play-style (I can admit I may be wrong ) going by his actions,

My question is does an expert player need to keep hitting the ball at an opponent who is near helpless to return the ball?
Yukimura can lob shots, he could aim his serves in different ways to avoid the opponent, do underhand serves, his skills could probably control the ball in other ways. THis may suggest that he hits the ball at an opponent who cant return to make them look dumb purposefully. This ensures sanada is treated with the same respect by subjecting sanada to the same process other opponents yukimura plays.
I can only state echizen's match with him as a reference, where the ball ends up hitting echizen, usually while the opponent is standing most still. Also sanada's clothing is shown as dirty at the end of the match with yukimura, since sanada didnt give up (by lying down on the ground forfeiting the match in mental anguish) and the end score shows so. also we see that a ball gets hit at sanada. (note: manga may be boring if same pictures are drawn ie being hit with the ball, so 1 picture could makes it point and doesn't have to be redrawn)

again i stress yukimura can aim the ball anyway he likes due to his skill level to avoid hitting the opponent after the a ball bounces, but he chooses not to.


What you believe is both wrong and irrelevant.
KOnomi said himself its not something he activates. Are you foolish enough to tell us you know more than Konomi?
Its not that Ken and I agreed on activation, coz Ken and I have clashing opinions a lot, its just that this time, Konomi gave us the answer as clear as day.
Yips isnt ''activated'' Its a part of Yuki. He even yipped people in the U-17 Camp while just being near them talking which is in the PairPuri's.
 
He didnt try to embarass Sanada. If anything he was showing a bit of kindness as his best friend... or something.
Just like Kaoz said, against Ryoma he blasted shots away from him but against Sanada he did it right at him as he noticed Sanada suppressing yips with pure will power which is quite a feat.



Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
I theorize while opponents are in yips he hits the tennis ball (due to his good ball control) to aim it at the opponent. (thus embarrassing them and winning slowly)
No. Not for embarassment. Its just how he is. Otherwise he would have said its to embarass him. Remember the flashback Konomi did to show they are best friends.


It doesn't matter if they are friends, yukimura out of respect for sanada will give him the same treatment as he does his other opponents is my understanding.
that's how yuki treats his opponents while under yips.(IMHO) I explained partially above.
He said he couldn't have some fun after being atked by sanada with black aura.

if a person is disabled in yips mode presumably unable to move, see, hear, or sense. then why is it fun for yukimura to play an opponent in such a state? One conclusion is he enjoys that kind of tennis to hit the ball at the opponent, and seeing that they cant return it. or worse he's a sadistic person who likes to see his opponents suffer then give up or he likes easy wins w/o much trouble?

So if you put sanada in yips and this action causes him to evolve his skills into a new power I.e. black aura. yukimura can't have fun no more, he has to end the match asap and with full aggressiveness or he will risk losing. (luckily sanada doesn't seem to control his black aura or sustain it.) In any case given what yukimura saw, he decides to go all out seriousness and end the match asap.

another example is tezuka vs echizen (train station match)

tezuka was playing semi serious, but i believe tezuka saw the samurai ghost
from echizen, TEzuka.. said screw this I'm gonna beat him asap.!! presumably before something happens.


Did you confuse things chronologically? Since Yukimura aiming for Sanada happened BEFORE the BA arrived. Dont see your point's validity here.

ashore
April 29, 2012, 12:05 PM
aliright i forgot wat puri pair was. now i remember what that is and admit my argument about activation is wrong. I dont know more than the author. I didnt know yips was felt by the some U-17 folks who were watching a yukimura match. I didnt read the part about puri pair, but i trust you are right.

@Kaoz
I dont see why yukimura would want to give Sanada a chance to hit the ball? that would be an insult to sanada. Also sanada asked yukimura "dont hold back"
giving unforced chances = holding back. Out of respect Yukimura will treat sanada like any other opponent. Like I said we can't really get into the mind of characters, but this seems the logical reasoning to me.

Can we stop using friendship as an excuse for yukimura hitting the ball at sanada please? And if you can overcome that idea, then you have to ask yourself why is the ball being hit at sanada, and why is his clothes " DIRTY"? at the end of the match? , did sanada lie on the ground helpless? or is because he get hit from tennis balls?, which konomi dont want to waste pages of manga to illustrate his point. (http://mangafox.me/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v02/c009/1.html) sanada get hits in head and stomach.

(http://mangafox.me/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v02/c009/3.html)

let me summarize my points.

point1: out of friendship yukimura will treat sanada like a regular opponent, and wont hold back. (therefore he wont give sanada chances to hit an easy ball)
point2:i speculate that yukimura's tennis style after yips is applied is to have "fun" by hitting the ball at his opponents to make them suffer or embarrass them.
point3: about yukimura's reaction to B/A. which is to defeat sanada As soon as possible, and put aside his personal fun.
point4: to put in context about the perception of yukimura being serious pre and post encounter with B/A
Edit: I re read pot 1 manga, echizen doesn't get hit with the ball while in yips, that only occurs in the anime.

I already explained my reasoning for my 3 points in previous posts. i'll down for discussion or I'll wait for the ova match to see what konomi wants to put in it.

Kaoz
April 30, 2012, 04:00 AM
Edit: I re read pot 1 manga, echizen doesn't get hit with the ball while in yips, that only occurs in the anime.

That's kind of the point.

Yukimura makes Echizen move around, and on the other hand he hits the shots to Sanada while they were yipped, we can clearly see that there is a difference.

"Enjoying tennis" could be interpreted in another way very easily. You can't enjoy tennis if you're not actually playing, and following that, wouldn't it make sense to give the opponent a chance to hit the ball and try to draw the match out a little longer instead of going for the finish straight away?

ashore
April 30, 2012, 02:07 PM
I like and see your point. I can see it both ways. enjoying tennis could also mean winning and dominating the opponent. it depends on the player's personality. atobe enjoys war of attrition because he is slowly damaging the opponent and will lead to victory. Why would yukimura say/think one thing and do the opposite? Yukimura won't hold back. Does not holding back in a tennis match equate to hitting a ball towards someone so they can return it back? I guess we'll have to look at the ova to see what konomi adds. I realize people dont like see anime as canon, but sometimes the anime helps to show konomi's intentions that he couldn't show in the manga and perhaps the modivations of the characters.

from http://mangafox.me/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v02/c009/3.html

"giving his friend a battle without hesitation." Even in friendship , yukimura will battle seriously. The word battle could mean both sides fighting each other, but in the case of yipped sanada , he was a sitting duck, and yukimura seems to atk sanada with his shots. As long as we understand each other's perspectives, then discussion on this specific point can be concluded. I'd like to see more discussion on the black aura! :O

Brandnewkid
April 30, 2012, 04:11 PM
I'm having a hard time understanding how this thread reached three pages on a technique that we no virtually nothing about.

I'm telling you guys, Konomi himself likely doesn't even know the status on the "Black Aura" yet. It's very likely that Konomi's writing and planning SPoT as he goes along.

Fayte
May 01, 2012, 11:21 AM
There is way too much to quote, so I'm just going to not do it. There is absolutely no evidence to conclude that Yukimura was holding back against Sanada at any time. Yukimura knows Sanada better than anybody, and he KNOWS Sanada would never forgive him for holding back. This is like PoT 101, and most of you seem to not understand this. Everything about this match tells us the OPPOSITE. There is nothing about this match that tell us Yukimura wasn't being ruthless against Sanada. Saying that "Yukimura was hitting points at Sanada's FREAKING FACE was Yukimura being nice allowing him to hit the ball back" is complete BS and downright laughable fanboyism. Are you kidding me?

Whether Yips is activated or not is irrelivant. If Konomi says an ABILITY is not an ability, then yes, I will DISagree with Konomi on the bases of him not knowing what a logical fallacy is. Yips is an ability, period. Konomi did not create the definition of "ability," therefore I can disagree with what he says about it, and still be correct. To be honest, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about on this topic.

Also, I think we all agree that the subjectivity of saying "enjoy tennis" does NOT equal "hold back."

And Airgrimes, I'm not going to debate your fanboyism (and it IS obvious). Your constant use of words to degrade Sanada makes you look like a moron.

-Ken-
May 01, 2012, 06:12 PM
There is way too much to quote, so I'm just going to not do it. There is absolutely no evidence to conclude that Yukimura was holding back against Sanada at any time. Yukimura knows Sanada better than anybody, and he KNOWS Sanada would never forgive him for holding back. This is like PoT 101, and most of you seem to not understand this. Everything about this match tells us the OPPOSITE. There is nothing about this match that tell us Yukimura wasn't being ruthless against Sanada. Saying that "Yukimura was hitting points at Sanada's FREAKING FACE was Yukimura being nice allowing him to hit the ball back" is complete BS and downright laughable fanboyism. Are you kidding me?

It wouldn't be the first time player did something against their nature. Sanada taking a lose against Echizen by sealing his own two ultimate techniques just so that Tezuka wouldn't be able to prepare for it. Sanada see his match in the future that's not even guarantee against Tezuka as more important than winning Kantou tournament for his friend who is taking a surgery in a hospital. Does that sounds like Sanada to you at all? But that's actually what he did. A character do what Konomi draw them to do. It can be against their character, whatever. It's not up to you or me to decide.


Whether Yips is activated or not is irrelivant. If Konomi says an ABILITY is not an ability, then yes, I will DISagree with Konomi on the bases of him not knowing what a logical fallacy is. Yips is an ability, period. Konomi did not create the definition of "ability," therefore I can disagree with what he says about it, and still be correct. To be honest, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about on this topic.

Did I just read "I'm more right than the author himself about his own manga"? I'm not going to even brother about this.

Fayte
May 02, 2012, 12:02 AM
Did I just read "I'm more right than the author himself about his own manga"? I'm not going to even brother about this.

If by more right you mean more right in my knowledge of the English language, then yes.

-Ken-
May 02, 2012, 12:17 AM
If by more right you mean more right in my knowledge of the English language, then yes.

He doesn't give the interview in English. You'll have to read the original text to see whether or not what he actually means. Unfortunately, I do not know the original text in Japanese.

Brandnewkid
May 02, 2012, 11:13 AM
For all we know, the Black Aura could actually be Sanada using the Yips as well.

LetalHawk
May 02, 2012, 11:24 AM
For all we know, the Black Aura could actually be Sanada using the Yips as well.

Explain that to me.

Airgrimes
May 02, 2012, 11:57 AM
Whether Yips is activated or not is irrelivant. If Konomi says an ABILITY is not an ability, then yes, I will DISagree with Konomi on the bases of him not knowing what a logical fallacy is. Yips is an ability, period. Konomi did not create the definition of "ability," therefore I can disagree with what he says about it, and still be correct. To be honest, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about on this topic.
And Airgrimes, I'm not going to debate your fanboyism (and it IS obvious). Your constant use of words to degrade Sanada makes you look like a moron.

You are in no position to talk. You look like a massive moron as you are saying you disagreeing with KONOMI in KONOMI'S MANGA.
What an absolute idiot you must be to think you know more than Konomi on his own manga. Your fanboyism is beyond laughable.

Yips being activated or not is actually relevant. Its an ability which is what we already agreed. Its already been stated its an ability here.
And we were saying whether Yukimura yipped Sanada or not doesnt prove he WAS serious. There is evidence to suggest he wasnt serious and evidence to suggest he was.
But let me guess, whilst others on the forum have acknowledged both sides having evidence you ALONE believe there is no evidence right?
(Your not a fanboy at all)

You ignorantly argued about Yips without even knowing how it worked lol.

Words to degrade him? They are just CHARACTERS not real ppl bro.
I said he looked pathetic, big deal, you have used words to degrade Fuji, Yukimura and many others, it doesnt make you look like a moron whenever you do it.

Sai_the_Shaman
May 02, 2012, 12:46 PM
You two (Fayte and Airgrimes), calm down with the arguing a bit. I've always been fine with argument since it spurs conversation and debate. However, please keep it civil with the back and forth idiot and fanboy comments.

Airgrimes
May 02, 2012, 01:43 PM
You two (Fayte and Airgrimes), calm down with the arguing a bit. I've always been fine with argument since it spurs conversation and debate. However, please keep it civil with the back and forth idiot and fanboy comments.

Erm.... He started it :P !

Nah im kidding. I apologize and I'll stop.

Brandnewkid
May 02, 2012, 02:36 PM
Explain that to me.

The Yips is induced by having the opponent reach a certain state of mind; having them believe that no matter what the ball will be returned. For argument's sake, lets say that Sanada's supreme will, manifested in the form of the Black Aura, allowed him to break the Yips inflicted by Yukimura, and reflect it upon Yukimura himself, in some small way or form. Sanada is known to be able to hit 1,000 balls on the same line if he wanted to. He returned a shot from Yukimura while inflicted with the Yips, and could've possibly gave Yukimura the Yips. Yukimura did say "I was hoping to enjoy some tennis today." For all we know, Sanada's Yips, caused by the imposing Black Aura, could've taken away one of Yukimura's senses at the time, like his hearing or even his sight.

But, Yukimura would've probably said so, right? Not necessarily. After all, Yukimura did suffer from the Yips before, in the original PoT, IIRC. That, or Konomi wouldn't want to spoil it.

Why would Sanada cause the Yips just because he broke out of it, and not Echizen when he freed himself during the final Rikkai match? That was because Echizen induced PoP, so it was understandable. But, for Sanada to get out the Yips completely on his own could've been a total shock to Yukimura's system.

I don't feel like getting to technical, but please consider the possibility that Sanada may not be able to use the Yips, possibly in a different manner than Yukimura. If Yukimura's Yips is caused by Yukimura's presence, the so-called "World of Yukimura," then Sanada's may be caused by Sanada's presence, the "World of Sanada." The fact that Sanada is able to invoke the Black Aura outside of a tennis match (when the BJB returned) may also be proof of this.

LetalHawk
May 02, 2012, 02:43 PM
Yukimura's Yips are also present in his daily life. He yipped Inoue, the reporter, while speaking to him. Yukimura's presence makes you feel like that. I think BA yips you in a way because the fear it strikes into you.

As it's a very scary aura, and possibly gives you that fear, you're unable to move and can't react to the shots. Sure Yukimura was in a shock when that happened: "for a moment, Yukimura couldn't believe what he saw, that BA that engulfed Sanada and the sudden fear that went through his mind". Yukimura was scared as hell, he didn't expect that to happen and he knew he had to finish the match quickly to be ready if that Aura came again.

Maybe BA "yips" you in a way that you can't move due to the fear it strikes into you. Again, is just a theory, we can't really imagine what that aura possibly is.

Airgrimes
May 02, 2012, 02:49 PM
Why would Sanada cause the Yips just because he broke out of it, and not Echizen when he freed himself during the final Rikkai match? That was because Echizen induced PoP, so it was understandable. But, for Sanada to get out the Yips completely on his own could've been a total shock to Yukimura's system.

LOL he didnt ''cause'' Yips. He broke through it and it completely lifted his power and I imagine speed aswell and now it seems his power and speed is at an extremely high level.
Yukimura wasnt yipped though. He could see, hear and feel perfectly. Remember he was staring around in disbelief thinking ''what was that?'' just like against Ryoma.

Brandnewkid
May 02, 2012, 02:53 PM
Yukimura's Yips are also present in his daily life. He yipped Inoue, the reporter,

Do not consider that shit seriously. It's a joke.


LOL he didnt ''cause'' Yips. He broke through it and it completely lifted his power and I imagine speed aswell and now it seems his power and speed is at an extremely high level.
Yukimura wasnt yipped though. He could see, hear and feel perfectly. Remember he was staring around in disbelief thinking ''what was that?'' just like against Ryoma.

Respectfully, I'm not going to take this as an argument against my theory. Not substantial enough.

LetalHawk
May 02, 2012, 02:59 PM
Do not consider that shit seriously. It's a joke.



Respectfully, I'm not going to take this as an argument against my theory. Not substantial enough.

No no, I'm not kidding. Konomi says that in his Pair Puri lol.

Brandnewkid
May 02, 2012, 03:21 PM
No no, I'm not kidding. Konomi says that in his Pair Puri lol.

The whole Inoue thing isn't meant to be taken seriously. It's obviously a play on the character's abilitites. It's just as jovial as that image Konomi drew of Nioh and Yanagi shooting Laser Beams from their eyes.

Airgrimes
May 02, 2012, 03:21 PM
Do not consider that shit seriously. It's a joke.
fair enough, what Konomi has stated himself shouldn't be considered is what your saying right?



Respectfully, I'm not going to take this as an argument against my theory. Not substantial enough.

What on earth? You think Sanada blinded and deafened Yukimura? Coz that's what yips is in this series. No evidence to suggest Sanada blinded him.
Sanada's Speed and Power stats lifted extremely beyond a level that Yukimura could keep yipped and that's all we've been shown. Nothing you wrote supports Sanada being able to produce the Yips effect.
The reason those HSers were shitting themselves is coz they realized that Sanada w/ BA was beastly but not a situation where they were yipped, frozen unable to move or something like Yips.

Its not even Sanada's style to completely intimidate. He invites the opponent head-on and overwhelms them completely (from what we've been shown).

Kaoz
May 02, 2012, 03:26 PM
it completely lifted his power and I imagine speed aswell and now it seems his power and speed is at an extremely high level.

We don't even really know that to be honest. When you look at the previous pages, Yukimura was kinda absent minded at that point, maybe comparable to Fuji when he played against Akaya and got hit. So it could be that everyone was just surprised that Sanada was supposedly yipped but still managed to produce a normal shot (possibly serve, but that's not so important I guess).

Airgrimes
May 02, 2012, 03:32 PM
We don't even really know that to be honest. When you look at the previous pages, Yukimura was kinda absent minded at that point, maybe comparable to Fuji when he played against Akaya and got hit. So it could be that everyone was just surprised that Sanada was supposedly yipped but still managed to produce a normal shot (possibly serve, but that's not so important I guess).

Fair point. What youve mentioned here also makes me look at the story differently lol. I really want Konomi to clear up what BA really does now. This thread has had loads of great point coming from all sides.

To say that Sanada's shot was just a normal shot is very unlikely however, considering it tore through the cage. For that reason Im assuming his power stat lifted. His power was so high that Yips no longer had him locked down enabling him to rally with Yukimura easily now without being pushed back at all.

Kaoz
May 02, 2012, 03:36 PM
To say that Sanada's shot was just a normal shot is very unlikely however, considering it tore through the cage. For that reason Im assuming his power stat lifted. His power was so high that Yips no longer had him locked down enabling him to rally with Yukimura easily now without being pushed back at all.

I guess that's a fair point. At the moment I don't see any reason to assume anything beyond "breaking out of Yips" and a more powerful shot though.

Also since we didn't see the rest of the match, we can't really say whether he could keep up during the last two points.

Brandnewkid
May 02, 2012, 03:37 PM
fair enough, what Konomi has stated himself shouldn't be considered is what your saying right?

No, I didn't say that. I said, that little omake was just played for laughs, and nothing else.



Its not even Sanada's style to completely intimidate. He invites the opponent head-on and overwhelms them completely (from what we've been shown).

Wrong.

Sanada's style is not to invite the opponent head-on, but to challenge them head-on at their own game. If he's playing against an aggressive player, he'll get aggressive; if he's playing against a defensive player, he'll get defensive. If he's playing against a player who is willing to put everything on the line, then he will also put everything on the line, as shown in his game against Tezuka where he put the well-being of his knees on the table to match Tezuka's elbow. He's an even more extreme all-rounder than Echizen and Yukimura. And this, is all for the sake of victory and complete domination. Sanada's all about intimidation, ever since his, and Rikkai's, first appearance.

Fayte
May 02, 2012, 03:37 PM
We don't even really know that to be honest. When you look at the previous pages, Yukimura was kinda absent minded at that point, maybe comparable to Fuji when he played against Akaya and got hit. So it could be that everyone was just surprised that Sanada was supposedly yipped but still managed to produce a normal shot (possibly serve, but that's not so important I guess).

That's a stretch considering had it been a normal shot:

A) Yukimura would have returned it
B) It wouldn't have cut Yukimura's headband
C) It wouldn't have broken the fence
D) It wouldn't have caused "fear."

Konomi doesn't break the law of newness. Whenever a character develops a new technique or aura, it will always raise their ability level.

Airgrimes
May 02, 2012, 03:39 PM
I guess that's a fair point. At the moment I don't see any reason to assume anything beyond "breaking out of Yips" and a more powerful shot though.

Also since we didn't see the rest of the match, we can't really say whether he could keep up during the last two points.

Im quite annoyed that despite a massive audience of other Top level players nobody had anything to add like how everybody was commenting when Ryoma activated TMnK. Either they were speechless or I don't know what.
And after Yukimura won nothing was really said by others, I expected Konomi to have other players go over what had just happened like in some other tie-breaks.

Brandnewkid
May 02, 2012, 03:40 PM
Konomi doesn't break the law of newness. Whenever a character develops a new technique or aura, it will always raise their ability level.

This is just pure common sense.

Fayte
May 02, 2012, 03:41 PM
This is just pure common sense.

A feat many people do not have, so I need to spell it out.

Airgrimes
May 02, 2012, 03:41 PM
No, I didn't say that. I said, that little omake was just played for laughs, and nothing else.

Thats what YOU think.



Wrong.

Sanada's style is not to invite the opponent head-on, but to challenge them head-on at their own game. If he's playing against an aggressive player, he'll get aggressive; if he's playing against a defensive player, he'll get defensive. If he's playing against a player who is willing to put everything on the line, then he will also put everything on the line, as shown in his game against Tezuka where he put the well-being of his knees on the table to match Tezuka's elbow. He's an even more extreme all-rounder than Echizen and Yukimura. And this, is all for the sake of victory and complete domination. Sanada's all about intimidation, ever since his, and Rikkai's, first appearance.

And this suggests Sanada can yip ppl how??

Brandnewkid
May 02, 2012, 03:42 PM
Thats what YOU think.


And this suggests Sanada can yip ppl how??

Lol, You got me. I get it, you're trolling.

Fayte
May 02, 2012, 03:43 PM
Thats what YOU think.

No, he's actually right about that. You can't take jokes seriously. Niou is not shooting laser beams out his eyes any time soon, but nobody is commenting on that.

Airgrimes
May 02, 2012, 03:47 PM
Whenever a character develops a new technique or aura, it will always raise their ability level.

That's what my initial thought was. I think the small scene hinted the stats strongly amplified mainly was Power and Speed. I think at least.
As TMnK didnt seem to lift all the stats if you know what I mean.
It didnt suggest Mental or Power was lifted but Speed and Technique sky-rocketed. (Yukimura was returning shots so I didnt feel the shots were necessarily powerful).

But with Sanada it seems perhaps Power and Speed.


Lol, You got me. I get it, you're trolling.

What?? No Im not.
What have you done that suggests Sanada can blind and deafen ppl? Coz thats what Yips is in this series. Your the one trolling here by giving us a theory that Sanada can yip without really making sense.


No, he's actually right about that. You can't take jokes seriously. Niou is not shooting laser beams out his eyes any time soon, but nobody is commenting on that.

LOL They are slightly different. One is something Yukimura is said to be able to do. Its stated in the series he can take all 5 senses. While a person shooting laserbeams outta his eyes has yet to be shown hahaha.

Kaoz
May 02, 2012, 03:56 PM
As TMnK didnt seem to lift all the stats if you know what I mean.
It didnt suggest Mental or Power was lifted but Speed and Technique sky-rocketed. (Yukimura was returning shots so I didnt feel the shots were necessarily powerful).

But with Sanada it seems perhaps Power and Speed.


Where are you getting the speed part from?

Also the TnK shots Yukimura returned were all slowed down ones as far as we know.

Airgrimes
May 02, 2012, 04:03 PM
Where are you getting the speed part from?

Also the TnK shots Yukimura returned were all slowed down ones as far as we know.

Just the way the shot went past Yuki as if he didnt even see it coming.
If it was just power Yuki im guessing would have been like ''What power'' but if you notice Yukimura didnt even have the time to change standing position. It seemed different from a Hadoukyuu effect.

It seemed more like Speed played a factor coz Power doesnt faze Yukimura at all considering he effortlessly returns Lightning. I believe the shot was A LOT faster than Yukimura had expected which is why it flew past him.

If it was simply power I reckon the ball would have hit Yuki's racket as it went past or something. Its also very unlike Yuki for a shot to fly past him aswell. I reckon BA focuses on a Power and Speed lift.

Sai_the_Shaman
May 02, 2012, 04:08 PM
What have you done that suggests Sanada can blind and deafen ppl? Coz thats what Yips is in this series. Your the one trolling here by giving us a theory that Sanada can yip without really making sense

Small correction, that's what Yukimura's yips does...

However, real life yips was introduced into the series as an ailment that Miyuki suffered from in which case you just become paralyzed with fear and can't perform at a normal level due to the mental pressure...

Actually now that I think about it...Ochi kinda does that to his opponents...

Kaoz
May 02, 2012, 04:08 PM
@Airgrimes
I would put that under technique then given that we usually use speed for movement, but ok.

Airgrimes
May 02, 2012, 04:12 PM
Small correction, that's what Yukimura's yips does...

However, real life yips was introduced into the series as an ailment that Miyuki suffered from in which case you just become paralyzed with fear and can't perform at a normal level due to the mental pressure...

Actually now that I think about it...Ochi kinda does that to his opponents...

Yukimura didnt have that though. He was still able to think fine. Sanada doing that still isnt really suggested lol.
And yeah, Ochi is talented at MindF**king his opponents. I hope the storyline adds in that he and Irie are friends lol.

Fayte
May 02, 2012, 04:15 PM
@Airgrimes
I would put that under technique then given that we usually use speed for movement, but ok.

Speed on the stat diagram is always a reference to movement. The speed of the ball I guess would have to be technique since power has nothing to do with ball speed either. Racquet speed is all about technique anyways.

Airgrimes
May 03, 2012, 02:22 AM
Speed on the stat diagram is always a reference to movement. The speed of the ball I guess would have to be technique since power has nothing to do with ball speed either. Racquet speed is all about technique anyways.

Are you sure it has NOTHING to do with ball speed? Maybe even a little bit? I just felt in that scene speed was highlighted but it could be Technique instead.
Im actually not 100% sure but this seems correct.

So BA makes Power and Technique Sky rocket while TMnK sky rockets Speed and Technique. Different but very similar.

Kaoz
May 03, 2012, 02:35 AM
Are you sure it has NOTHING to do with ball speed? Maybe even a little bit? I just felt in that scene speed was highlighted but it could be Technique instead.
Im actually not 100% sure but this seems correct.

We're not 100% sure since Konomi never made definitions himself, but it's what we generally agreed on when the sheets were first released.

From the top of my head it was:
Power: How much force someone can return the ball with.
Speed: Movement speed.
Technique: How well someone can place the ball.
Stamina: Endurance. Injuries might influence this stat and drastically decrease it.
Mental: How much and how easily someone is psychologically affected by the opponent's actions.

LetalHawk
May 03, 2012, 06:03 AM
We're not 100% sure since Konomi never made definitions himself, but it's what we generally agreed on when the sheets were first released.

From the top of my head it was:
Power: How much force someone can return the ball with.
Speed: Movement speed.
Technique: How well someone can place the ball.
Stamina: Endurance. Injuries might influence this stat and drastically decrease it.
Mental: How much and how easily someone is psychologically affected by the opponent's actions.

Sanada's BA just lifted his speed and power. and probably mental due to him being able to break out of yips. Technique maybe also a little, stamina was the same. It just raises the skill level of the player.

Tenimuhou lifts your entire abilities. Mental goes to the maximum levels, you play just for fun without caring, no matter what. Speed increases to a inhuman level, probably faster than BA, power and technique also go up and we don't know how long can a player be with Tenimuhou, but stamina wise, it also increases it, when Echizen activated it, his whole sweat evaporated and started playing like a new person.

Yips are useless against people with those auras, but we can't compare them really. We don't have enough data on BA to compare it to the strongest aura in POT yet. I don't think Konomi is going to make it stronger than TnK, because Sanada would be above Echizen/Tezuka level and he'd 6-0 most of the HS (even most of the first stringers wouldn't stand a chance).

Kaoz
May 03, 2012, 06:20 AM
Sanada's BA just lifted his speed and power

No seriously, where do you get the speed boost from? I'm just going to assume you're refering to movement speed here since you quoted that post.

LetalHawk
May 03, 2012, 08:30 AM
No seriously, where do you get the speed boost from? I'm just going to assume you're refering to movement speed here since you quoted that post.

Yes, I didn't make it clear, I mean movement speed (body speed); not running speed.

ashore
June 18, 2013, 07:48 PM
edit: nevermind.