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devstauk
June 18, 2012, 08:04 AM
Okay so i got to thinking and based on my theory that the 5 war potentials are based on the amount of reistu produced, being some kind of deterrent to the quincy's bankai steal/sealing process, my reason for thinking this is when Ivan couldn't steal/seal ichigo's bankai it was due to the sheer overwhelming amount that Ichigo let's out, If this is a factor then it would make sense to me that the 5 war potentials are Ichigo who we already know to be one, but also the three who fought Azien. Isshin, Urahaaha, Yoruichi my reasons for these three are the fact that being able to give him a reasonable beating, without even going bankai is pretty impressive feat, and lets be honest if they go bankai they would be serious powerhouses that emit immense amounts of Reistu so stealing or sealing would be damn near impossible to contain and possibly "control"
the last one like i said in another post is a toss up between Zaraki and Yamamotto, these two are in my eye the only other two it could be i mean lets face it Zaraki has this Unknown potential but going by what we know of him and seen what he is capable of it only suggests that he cant be subdued. The only thing that makes me think its not him is the fact he hasn't got bankai but we don't know if what gives the War Potentials that title has anything to do with bankai itself, if its not to do with bankai then it has to do with the Reistu these guys emit.
Yamamotto is kind of on the fence with this one, i don't think he's going to be a war potential due to BB basically looking overly confident that he's gunna :spank Yama's arse so being a war potential kind of defeats the object.

I know some of you are going to say what about Shunsui, Ukitake and Unohana, lets just say these guys aren't weak and by any means should be taken out of the equation but you have to remember their bankai's for all we know may not have much to do with overwhelming amounts of Reistu but the control and physical effects they may have on their opponents so in my opinion these won't be war potentials.....

Now lets take a look at the back runners for the 5 war potentials, okay we have chad and orihime these guys aren't necessarily power houses or anything but we do have to take into account that their powers are unique and will come in handy for either side

My theory on what makes people war potentials is one of three things,
1. is to do with how useful they will be to either side
2. it has something to do with the reistu they emit, going by what we saw kirge do to allon this could mean that they all have that ability and the war potential has to do with this ability as well has the stealing/sealing
3. it has to do with the blood lines



1. Kurosaki Ichigo
2. Zaraki Kenpachi

kkck
June 18, 2012, 10:23 AM
Well, there are indeed many names that come into play here. Ichigo was already stated to be one so it comes down to figuring out who the 4 other people are. Originally I thought we could rule out urahara, chad and orihime since none of them was called a war potential however then I had the idea that this could be because urahara and orihime in particular had yet to be spotted by vanderreich. After all, ichigo headed out first and urahara went elsewhere to help dodonchaka. So this are my candidates:

1.- Urahara. Very smart dude who seems to have met the king.
2.- Orihime. Actual godlike powers who has the power to bring back the dead. Her ability might even be able to return shinigami to a state before being robed of their bankai.
3.- Ishin. Powerful shinigami who could have a connection to vanderreich through ryuken
4.- Ryuken. Powerful quincy, the last of the line of souken apparently who I would argue knows about vanderreich through souken. His abilities cannot be stolen and if souken knew stuff about vanderreich then he is likely to have told ryuken.

NAM61
June 18, 2012, 10:29 AM
ichigo, isshin, ishida, ishidas father and urahara are the 5 i think

ichigo because he is immune to getting his bankai stolen and he is very powerful

isshin maybe he has a past with the leader and seems to be very powerful as well

ishida and his father because they are quincys

urahara because he is smart and probably can counter their bankai stealing medallions

kkck
June 18, 2012, 01:19 PM
Dunno, based on kirge's opinion of ishida it does not seem like vanderreich thinks of him as an enemy. Kirge seemed actually disappointed in him being weak, I would find it incredible if they did not have an expectation of ishida switching sides to them at some point. I would imagine that more than ishida being a war potential he is a potential ally.

I also can't imagine orihime not being a war potential. Her abilities are quite literally godlike. She has a deeper ability than merely time and spatial regression, her ability allows her to outright reject events. SS feared this ability enough to have the shinigami stationed in KT return and it would make no sense if vanderreich has not understood the implications of the ability. Given the nature of her abilities, she should be the most likely to be on the list. With her help SS could potentially fight VR indefinitely lol.

Miyagi
June 19, 2012, 03:04 AM
I don't think war potential status is all about power and/or reiatsu. VR had no idea that Ichigo's bankai couldn't be stolen and they can't possibly know whose bankai are strong enough to resist bankai stealing technique even if we assume that it didn't work on Ichigo because of his high reiatsu and not some other factor. For now I have five theories about who those five war potentials may be:

1) Isshin, Ryūken, Urahara, Yoruichi and Ichigo because they're the strongest people outside SS, and it's not in VR's best interest to face them alongside SS captains during invasion.

2) Ichigo, Isshin, Uryū, Ryūken and unknown person because they're quincies or have connection with quincies.

3) Ryūken, Ichigo, Uryū, Chad and Orihime because they're humans and can potentially be dangerous if they're not exterminated.

4) Yamamoto, Shunsui, Ukitake, Isshin and Ichigo because VR leader knows what they're capable of from 1000 years ago with the exception of Ichigo who is Isshin's son and defeated Aizen.

5) Ichigo, Shinji, Kensei, Love and Rose because they are vizard captains.

devstauk
June 19, 2012, 07:05 AM
Does anyone have any theorys on how people become war potentials, war potentials seems more like they could be one of 3 things a danger, helpful, or something else that i cant figure out, but knowing how they've come to the conclusion that these 5 are war potentials could help figure who they are

kkck
June 19, 2012, 07:37 AM
Well, the most basic thing we can guess is that each of them is capable in some form of having more influence in the outcome of the war than any one given person. To be fair, that is saying quite a bit considering this is a manga where a relatively small group of people already usually hold the majority of the power in organizations. I maintain orihime must be a war potential in this regard. Her ability to heal much faster than what kido would allow and to bring back dead people is a bit of an inconvenient for the enemies IMO.

devstauk
June 19, 2012, 08:55 AM
i don't know why but i think Ryuken could have something to with their research and development, also if they know about orihime's abilities but not who she is or what she looks like that makes me think they have only been told her name which i think could be the case

Impossibility
June 19, 2012, 08:03 PM
I have to agree with kkck on Orohime. Although her battle capabilities, for some reason, pale in comparison to others, she has the most ridiculous ability in the entire manga. Anyone aware of her ability would have to consider her a major factor in a war scenario. Isshin, Urahara, Yamamoto, Aizen, Uryu, Ryuken would seem like the most obvious of potential candidates, but in reality the war potentials have yet to be defined so it is distinctly possible that we could see a group that fails to include any of them. I'd also like to point out that beyond the names that have been offered up, it is distinctly possible than one or more of the war potentials have yet to be introduced.

okaneman
June 20, 2012, 03:10 AM
I think the 5 would be:-

1. Ichigo. He's not a Shinigami or Human, he's a.... (stated by Aizen). Well it does makes sense as being from human, he trascends into Shinigami, Hollow, Full-Bringer, and Shinigami (revived). If he tends to have Quincy power, I wouldn't be surprised at all... ,
2. Vizards. Even though their Bankai's stolen, they still have their hollow powers.
3. Urahara or Isshin. By this time, they maybe know the method of stopping the Quincy's Bankai-Stealing or even counter it. They also hang out with Ryuken, the Quincy.
4. Aizen. An immortal, hougyoku-fused shinigami. And he doesn't have his Zanpakuto anymore so no Bankai.. or is it??
5. Ishida/Ryuken. A mutual Quincy fellas with the Vandenreich. They also, know the method of Bankai-Stealing or how to counter it.

kkck
June 20, 2012, 12:57 PM
I would question whether ryuken and ishida know much about vanderreich. Souken knew them, thats a fact, however the issue at hand is that he did not approve of what they were doing. Souken advocated them fighting together and was against the holy form as far as we know. Ryuken fashions himself the last true quincy and has seemingly taken after souken's ideals even if he does not live a quincy live. I don't think ryuken has much knowledge of what the vandereich are up to, if he takes after his father odds are he already rejected the lot of them. Its ishida who is in trouble here, being unfamiliar with VR makes him a prime candidate to be either recruited or assasinated. If we take kirge's statement as true, his potential would be quite up there to say the least.

My issue with the vizards is that they would not be significantly different from arrancar to begin with. I don't think they would be regarded in any way more dangerous than what harribel was at large.

Would the shinigami release aizen though? I would question that much a decent bit lol. Aizen is a powerful immortal genius, releasing him could end up being potentially more dangerous than VR lol.

devstauk
June 20, 2012, 01:44 PM
I would question whether ryuken and ishida know much about vanderreich. Souken knew them, thats a fact, however the issue at hand is that he did not approve of what they were doing. Souken advocated them fighting together and was against the holy form as far as we know. Ryuken fashions himself the last true quincy and has seemingly taken after souken's ideals even if he does not live a quincy live. I don't think ryuken has much knowledge of what the vandereich are up to, if he takes after his father odds are he already rejected the lot of them. Its ishida who is in trouble here, being unfamiliar with VR makes him a prime candidate to be either recruited or assasinated. If we take kirge's statement as true, his potential would be quite up there to say the least.

My issue with the vizards is that they would not be significantly different from arrancar to begin with. I don't think they would be regarded in any way more dangerous than what harribel was at large.

Would the shinigami release aizen though? I would question that much a decent bit lol. Aizen is a powerful immortal genius, releasing him could end up being potentially more dangerous than VR lol.

thing is ryuken didnt have an entirely father son sort of relationship with his dad, who knows if he saw a profit from helping the VR obtain these medallions that steal bankai, thats not to say he cant be a war potential

kkck
June 20, 2012, 01:57 PM
thing is ryuken didnt have an entirely father son sort of relationship with his dad, who knows if he saw a profit from helping the VR obtain these medallions that steal bankai, thats not to say he cant be a war potential

Profit from the medallions? where did that come from? Seems kinda random.... If he had helped VR obtain the medallions wouldn't he be an ally though?

devstauk
June 21, 2012, 05:44 PM
He said to Uuryu that there was no profit in being Quincy, (i dunno i was spit balling with what i said in my previous post) although he did build a training ground to help his son regain his powers after losing them, he seems to have the knowledge to not only enhance his son's powers but also probably his own, he's also a doctor so he knows his shit so to speak, and he also knows very well how the Shinigami's bankai work, the war a 200 years ago was lost by the Quincy due to them not understanding bankai, so who would be the likely choice to either bribe, pay or intimidate into giving information on the shinigami

this is now kind of off topic, but as long as it gets back on topic i don't mind

---------- Post added at 11:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 AM ----------

Going back to topic, if the Stealing medallions are doing just that, stealing bankai or essentially the spirit of the Zan, then a reason Ichigo was able to stop it from happening is due to him having fused with it thus not having one now

kkck
June 21, 2012, 09:26 PM
I don't think that makes sense. Zangetsu/shirosaki have at every point in the manga been ichigo himself so to speak. Ichigo didn't fuse with them in that regard, at least not IMO. He did become getsuga but that does not in itself imply a change of that nature. If they are stealing bankai then I would argue the issue is about reiatsu, stealing bankai has the implication of stealing a portion of the shinigami's power. Ichigo's reiatsu and power are less than ordinary. In his basic form he is a hybrid with hollow and shinigami powers and in his transcendental form he has power which inherently surpasses hollows and shinigami altogether.

devstauk
June 22, 2012, 09:36 AM
http://www.mangareader.net/94-57474-15/bleach/chapter-420.html
that in my eye's suggests that ichigo, has become one with his zan which would also mean that the reason he lost his shinigami powers is because ichigo allowed zangetsu to pierce him with the zan become one complete soul... It was also stated back in the early arc's and also by isshin that a shinigami should not be judged by the size of his zan, but also that a shinigami's reishi or whatever should be associated with the actual size but they learn to keep it at a normal size or it would be the size of skyscrappers, i think that the zan materializes from a shinigami's soul and becomes a separate entity

FetherMan
June 22, 2012, 12:39 PM
maybe "Harribel" is one of the 5 war potentials. Afterall, she was the head of Hueco Mundo and taking her out gave them opportunity to expand their territory beyond their unknown location. That is a potential for advancement in a planned war on an enemy. I also, can understand why, Ichigo would be a perfect potential as well.

So far, I'm going with both "Harribel" and "Ichigo" as 2 of the 5 war potentials. I doubt, Aizen will be one. I would expect Inoue and Uyruu to be the other two.

Linfone
June 22, 2012, 09:02 PM
My list: Ichigo, Aizen, Ishida, Zaraki, Yammy.

Ichigo - for whatever reason, his bankai was not stolen.

Aizen - the shinigami's whose bankai might be world changing (literally)

Ishida - the only old school Quincy with potential

Zaraki - no bankai to steal, massive physical strength and reiatsu to boot

Yammy - "I have a Iacto Arme" "We have a Hulk"

union98
June 25, 2012, 12:52 PM
I have a feeling that at least a couple of the war potentials are perhaps characters we haven't seen yet. So far we know Ichigo is definitely one. Beyond that, I'm not sure why anyone else would potential be labeled a "war" potential. Maybe Kenpachi, but even still, he's just super strong. Nothing he can do ability-wise should present a problem for vandenreich from what we've seen. The vizards aren't too much stronger than the captains from what we saw in FKT and Isshin and Urahara are no different from the other shinigami which of who they're able to neutralize without much problem. I would think Aizen would be one simply because he has the hogyokyu attached to him, his immortal, and his smarter than virtually everyone else. So I'd say Ichigo, Aizen, and three people to be shown and named later...maybe Yamamoto as the third simply from the fact that about 7 of them appeared right in front of him, but even as strong as they are, they retreated...seeing how strong they are now and how they fair against the other captains, it goes to show you how much respect they must have for Yamamoto as a fighter seeing as how 7 of them still were unwilling to attack him when they seemingly had the advantage.

0Xellos
June 25, 2012, 02:24 PM
Ichigo - I think everyone agrees on this one, mostly because his bankai somehow wasn't stolen
Zaraki - no bankai to steal, the same reason; he's about as strong as a common captain with bankai
Aizen - he's immortal, that makes him badass, but I'm not so sure if he could be a war potential for SS since he's their enemy
Ishida - for Quincies, he can be a fearsome enemy, because he can exploit their weaknesses like no one else

Since we haven't seen the full extent of abilities of many strong Shinigami (Yama, Unohana, our mere handsome and sexy shopkeeper, Vizards, Ukitake etc.), it's hard for me to state anyone else I think could be a special war potential...

Miyagi
June 25, 2012, 02:38 PM
I don't think Aizen is one of the war potentials because for some reason VR thinks he is dead. Kenpachi makes sense but I see it more likely that none of them is from SS.

thornofcarrion
June 27, 2012, 07:47 AM
So far other than Ichigo, I could think of Kenpachi, Yama, Isshin, and Urahara. Yama, Isshin, and Urahara are far dangerous even without bankai. Ishida or his dad could be also one of them. Ryuken especially looked powerful. Knowing how Quincy fights can also be a bonus for him.

Rikkaidai94
July 02, 2012, 05:52 PM
I think the top five war potentials are most likey Kisuke, Yoruichi, Ichigo, Isshin, and Toushirou. They have rly strong spiritual pressure and etc. I think they would be handy in wars since they have really good skills and so on.

bleach fan 101
July 05, 2012, 12:00 AM
I believe that the 5 war potentials are
1. Ichigo - already stated as fact
2 Isshin - he is 1 of the leaders of SS as stated by Kubo in the last but 1 question on this page (http://manga.about.com/od/mangaartistinterviews/a/TiteKubo_2.htm)
3. Urahara - smartest being in bleach
4. Kenny - eye patch will make VR under estimate him
5. old man Yama - the big boss and reason for this war

Orihime is not war potential because of her personality, you can improve your powers but it will be a lot harder to change your personality

Also I believe that Ryuuken made Uuryu promise not to help the shinigami against the VR, that is why he isnt in my 5 war potentials

Linfone
July 13, 2012, 12:42 PM
What if, given the clue mentioned by Kirge, the War Potentials have some other ability that allows them to counteract Quincy abilities.

it's not just that Ichigo's bankai cannot be stolen, but also that his speed is beyond what the Quincy defenses can keep up with.

So... I assume that Kenpachi is a war potential only because he has no bankai to steal and because he is just a monster in fighting.

In terms of speed, I think we can say Grimmjow might be a war potential... Who knows if he's evolved in the time skip.

Aizen has not shown his bankai but I assume his advantage is Kyoka Suigetsu.

Urahara might not be a war potential, since Kirge did not mention his presence in Hueco Mundo to BB.

kkck
July 14, 2012, 08:30 PM
Well, perhaps harribel and grimmjow were war potentials then. That would explain why the king dealt with harribel himself. If they are not able to steal resurreccion (which is likely the case) then perhaps any arrancar is a potential threat to the stern rittern.

Cyrs
July 18, 2012, 01:05 AM
I wonder if Ichigo was considered a "War Potential" before the Quincy found out they couldn't steal his Bankai? Probably so.

I'm guessing the "War Potentials" are strong people that the Quincy would otherwise want to avoid fighting if possible, since they attacked when they knew Ichigo was busy in Hueco Mundo. So maybe Ishida is one, because they don't know for sure if he'll help them or fight them? Maybe it just refers to potential threats.

Or maybe it refers to key people that Soul Society needs to wage war against the Quincy, like Yamamoto (super strong leader), Unohana (main healer), etc.

WickedNeko
July 26, 2012, 09:07 PM
Chad.
We mustn't forget Chad, regardless of how useless and pointless he has been so far.

kkck
July 27, 2012, 04:55 PM
I maintain that orihime must be a war potential. Anyone who has power described as godlike and who has the power to resurrect the dead and can heal beyond what unohana can do should be at least a threat. Orihime in some forms has limitless potential here, even before the timeskip her power had limited boundaries. Healing nowadays should even be more efficient.

Chad is a possibility here. I think the fact that he lacks bankai is crucial. While at the moment he would not be worth much against the stern rittern he still has not fully developed his fullbring. I think that at some point chad is going to get a powerboost and from that point onward he is going to actually finish developing his fullbring. I also can't help but wonder if harribel was a war potential. It would kinda explain why they would take over HM. The emperor easily defeating harribel makes sense however the stern rittern being easily able to defeat resurreccion harribel not so much. I do kinda doubt that having bankai would be the sole deciding factor here though, there is something kinda off about that. So how about this list:

Ichigo
Orihime
chad
Harribel
kenpachi

S-H-I-G-U-R-E
July 28, 2012, 11:03 AM
My guesses:

Ichigo - we still don't know why; we just assumed it's because his bankai can't be stolen, but I think there's gotta be more (maybe he's hollow form, maybe his origins, maybe his trascendental form... maybe all the above)
Zaraki - because he is a completely hax/op/cheat-mode character with no bankai and totally... powerful!
Uryuu - we still don't know why, but Kirge's words kinda hinted to Uryuu being a war potential
Aizen - if Aizen gets out and decides to kill the quincies... he WILL kill the quincies XD Also, I suspect his bankai is something absolutely unbelievable (not that he would ever need his bankai to pwn them all)
Haribel - because she's a strong arrancar with no stealable power (unless we're proven wrong about that too) and because thanks to her the Vandereich can produce as many arrancars as they want


Other possible war potentials are, of course, Isshin, Ryuuken, Yoruichi and Yamamoto and... Kon! No, ok... maybe Kon isn't a war potential :teehee Btw, wha the hell happened to Kon? Did Kubo forget about him? :mono

kkck
July 28, 2012, 04:44 PM
I am surprised at how few people consider orihime to actually be a choice here. Her ability alone is enough for her to be able to turn the tide on a war. I mean, just how many times was ichigo healed by her during the past war? If I recall he healed him after ulquiorra left him for dead, after the battle with grimmjow and after the final battle with ulquiorra (although she didn't get to finish). I mean, that was 3 times orihime managed to put ichigo back on the battlefield even though he was basically half dead after each fight. Lets not forget that ichigo was the one who managed to defeat grimmjow, ulquiorra and finally little old aizen. In many ways orihime's role was no less than deciding during the war. Its not like unohana could have taken her place either, she simply cannot heal people instantly (it was ultimately up to hiyori herself to recover, orihime wouldn't have had that problem). And orihime could end up doing the same again and considering her powers have developed during the past 2 years it would make sense that she is even better at it.

Miyagi
July 28, 2012, 05:57 PM
It's very difficult to predict who these five war potentials are, the thing is we don't know on what criteria they were chosen. If it's a matter of power, it makes sense that Orihime isn't on the list because she seems pretty useless in battle. She can't heal Ichigo if the person who defeats Ichigo kills her. Quincies are more aggressive in that regard, Quilge almost killed her twice, IMHO her abilities don't matter much under these circumstances. I guess even Unohana can be more useful against such enemies because she is not only very skillful at healing even the gravest injuries but can also protect herself if attacked.

If Orihime is one of the war potentials, I think it can be related to her being one of those humans with powers. There's a possibility that Ryūken, Ichigo, Uryū, Chad and Orihime are those five war potentials due to them posing a threat for some unknown reason. If that is the case, I guess Quilge would mention that Chad and Orihime were war potentials too because why would he bring up the issue when he was fighting Ichigo but keep his mouth shut when the other two were standing before him? Perhaps the five war potentials are Ichigo, Harribel, Kenpachi, Yamamoto and Ryūken, people who can fight at the level of bankai without fear of getting their powers stolen. There are many possibilities.

RandomShikafan
July 29, 2012, 08:52 AM
I am surprised at how few people consider orihime to actually be a choice here. Her ability alone is enough for her to be able to turn the tide on a war. I mean, just how many times was ichigo healed by her during the past war? If I recall he healed him after ulquiorra left him for dead, after the battle with grimmjow and after the final battle with ulquiorra (although she didn't get to finish). I mean, that was 3 times orihime managed to put ichigo back on the battlefield even though he was basically half dead after each fight. Lets not forget that ichigo was the one who managed to defeat grimmjow, ulquiorra and finally little old aizen. In many ways orihime's role was no less than deciding during the war. Its not like unohana could have taken her place either, she simply cannot heal people instantly (it was ultimately up to hiyori herself to recover, orihime wouldn't have had that problem). And orihime could end up doing the same again and considering her powers have developed during the past 2 years it would make sense that she is even better at it.

Seems silly that they would succeed in getting another war potential caught in the trao but not comment on it and have Kirge die without revealing it. i mean if they are aware of Orihime, then I'm sure they are aware that she's friends Ichigo. At least I should hope so.

kkck
July 29, 2012, 10:56 AM
Well, so far urahara, chad and orihime did seem to have remained hidden from the quincy at large. I mean, they only noticed ichigo when he jumped right in front of kirge. I think it is fairly probable they simply did not notice the rest of the gang being there.

WickedNeko
July 29, 2012, 11:31 AM
What are the odds that the "Five Potentials" will be forgotten by the middle of this arc?
Remember, during the Arrancar Arc, how Orihime was supposed to be the key character?

kkck
July 29, 2012, 11:39 AM
Well, kubo didn't actually forget about that. Lets take a look at aizen giving us the james bond special (albeit without the evil laugh at the end).
http://www.mangareader.net/94-768-6/bleach/chapter-314.html

Aizen never meant for orihime to do anything with the orb. He only wanted everyone to think so so that SS shits it pants and makes a bunch of people go into HM where he could trap them. Basically, aizen lied through his teeth and everyone fell for it. Its not that kubo forgot about orihime during the arc, its just that aizen never actually needed her for what he said he did. He literally just used orihime's godlike abilities to scare everyone.

Anduren
July 29, 2012, 12:31 PM
The way I see it, the only "war potential" in the Bleach real world is Ichigo; and there are none in Soul Society. Unless Isshin and/or Ryuken were also visited off panel by representatives of the Vandenreich at the same time they declared war on Soul Society and Ivan visited Ichigo I couldn't think Buckbeard really worries about them. If Ishida, Chad or Orihime were considered "war potentials," I doubt that Ivan would've followed Ichigo away from his house when 3/4 of the possible people in question were still in the room. Also, Kirge didn't seem too worried when he faced to kill Urahara, Chad and Orihime... at least he seemed more worried about stopping Ichigo and then just mopping up the rest of whoever was left.

Seeing how they avoid Ichigo like the plague and makes all their plans around his actions to avoid him, and seeing how they think just stalling him is considered success, if any of the war potentials were in Soul Society, Buckbeard would have shown more caution in invading Soul Society instead of taking the Stern Ritter there and telling them to just kill everything without any specific strategy. For example, the first thing he would've done if there was a war potential in Soul Society would've been to have a way to deal with them while the Stern Ritter wreck the place.

I think at least some of the war potentials may be in places like hell and the dimension with the Royal Guard which have yet to be explored or explained in any detail. They're also most likely characters the Vandenreich doesn't want to run into for any reason.

Raizen
July 29, 2012, 04:08 PM
I don't understand why people assume that urahara and youruichi are war potentials. They're strong, but really they are not that impressive. Especially after the display that urahara has just shown.

Furthermore, if orihime or chad were war potentials, Kirge would have killed them right away.

My guess:
Ichigo
Yamamoto
Ryukken
Aizen
Halibel

daman246
July 29, 2012, 04:28 PM
Halibel is not a war potential, she is weak compare to a sterriter and posses no threat to Buck Beard.

1.Ichigo
2. Kenpachi
3. Aizen
4. Isshin/Yama Or Zero Squad
5. Ryuken/Ishida

Raizen
July 29, 2012, 04:33 PM
Halibel is not a war potential, she is weak compare to a sterriter and posses no threat to Buck Beard.

1.Ichigo
2. Kenpachi
3. Aizen
4. Isshin/Yama Or Zero Squad
5. Ryuken/Ishida
The only reason I said halibel is because I assume at least 1 hollow is a war potenital.

I don't think that the zero squad would be appearing soon, thus having them as a war potential is kind of strange.

daman246
July 29, 2012, 04:46 PM
if they was ever going to be a hollow war potential i bet is Grimmjow, And if he is the one that cut down Kirge then More so

kkck
July 29, 2012, 11:14 PM
Halibel is not a war potential, she is weak compare to a sterriter and posses no threat to Buck Beard.

1.Ichigo
2. Kenpachi
3. Aizen
4. Isshin/Yama Or Zero Squad
5. Ryuken/Ishida

I don't think harribel would be weak compared to the stern rittern. I don't see any reason in particular to think she is weak overall. Heck, as far as we know she was actually taken out by buckbeard, not the stern rittern. Harribel is a captain level arrancar, if she could join the fray and actually fight the stern rittern I would argue she would be remarkably useful.

devstauk
July 30, 2012, 03:30 AM
If going by the "not seen the rest of the potentials" theory then lets take a look at who's not been seen so far:

1. Isshin, i think he may end up saving Kenny in the upcoming battle only to be revealed as a war potential (why because he knows BB's identity and how much shit SS is in)

2. Yorichi not really sure what she's been doing but hopefully its constructive like trying to find enemy territory, reasons for her being a potential shes a beast at hand to hand combat... duh!

3. Any of the Ishida's. Its a possibility, i mean they do know the techniques and obviously something about the VR due to what kirge said..... but that's still suggesting that the war potentials aren't based of the medallions....

4. Could be a possibility that Grimm was the main Arrancar they was looking for but instead found Herribel. If it was Grimm the reasons i would think is due to having previous battle experience with Ichigo

With that in mind and the way things are going in SS i truly believe VR really do not see anyone in SS as any kind of threat which in a way would make sense, they storm into Seireitei basically obliterate everything in sight until Zaraki pops his angry little head into the mix he in my mind is still a massive candidate for being one of these potentials.....

Raizen
July 30, 2012, 10:35 AM
I question how.beastly youruichi in hand to hand compared to yamamoto. It doesn't make sense that weaker shinigamis are listed as a war potential without referencing yama

devstauk
July 30, 2012, 12:41 PM
I question how.beastly youruichi in hand to hand compared to yamamoto. It doesn't make sense that weaker shinigamis are listed as a war potential without referencing yama

Reason i haven't included Yama is due to the fact BB has already fought him plus at the beginning of the arc he sent some low level VRs to see him if he was a war potential BB would be staying well away from him.

With that being said though yama is still a major beast

Raizen
July 30, 2012, 12:47 PM
He sent almost a dozen fighters to declare war against yama and ss. And not one.of.them dared to attack yama while on the other hand, he felt comfortable leaving only kirge to handle ichigo, a war potential. That alone shows how high he holds yama

gcreech
July 30, 2012, 12:56 PM
What do you guys think about Tessai or Hacchi? Hachhi might be a stretch, but Tessai is an exceedingly powerful captain class shinigami with unrivaled Kido prowess. Also we havent seen his shikai yet or almost anything, but in the Pendulum arc even Shinsui made a big deal that they were gonna send him to find the missing captains. Just sayin, you never know

Raizen
July 30, 2012, 01:01 PM
With the quincies mastery over spiritual particles, beating then with JUST kid may be difficult so no i don't think they are possible war potential

gcreech
July 30, 2012, 01:08 PM
I kinda agree, Tessai mau not be a war potential, but I do think if he went all out except for going bankai, he would likely be more than a match for the majority of the sternriiter. He can teleport and stop time. But its going to be awhile befor his true abilities are revealed, but I do think he will be powerful.

kkck
July 30, 2012, 03:51 PM
To be honest I question whether a war potential would be among the gotei 13 to a great extent. The stern rittern went there with the intention of minimizing the power of every shinigami and fighting themselves at full strength. They waited for ichigo to be in HM because they thought that he alone would have the power to influence the outcome of the war more than a bunch of other people which is kinda consistent with what we have seen since he does have bankai and potentially godlike powers. So my idea is that a war potential should be someone who for some reason has the ability to singlehandedly affect considerably the outcome of the war as a whole. In this regard it would perhaps not make a lot of sense if the likes of urahara was a war potential because he is just a shinigami and while strong he is not strong to the point where the captains would seem weak in comparison. Even if the badge thing was not an issue urahara would still have a difficult battle against a proper stern rittern basically.

Now, if we are talking about people who have the power to singlehandedly influence the outcome of the war then perhaps we are dealing with less than ordinary people to say the least. I would argue that shinigami at large would not fall in this caterogy to a great extent. Without bankai they are basically supressing 90% of a shinigami's power so it wouldn't make sense for them to be such an overwhelming threat. If a shinigami is in the list then it would have to be someone so powerful that even without bankai he could fight evenly with a stern rittern at least. As shinigami that leaves merely yamamoto and ishin as far as we know.

jaymizzo
July 30, 2012, 05:09 PM
Like a lot of you, i believe Orihime to be one of the war potential. Her powers if fully matured or developed properly would essentially make her a god. The power to reject any event is seriously broken. It would be logical if she was a war potential but not an immediate threat since she does not seem to be a "fighter"

I think Isshin is a given. The fact that he has yet to even show an ounce of his power and the fact that he gave Aizen who im sure the Vandenreich are aware of, a run for his money with nothing less than his sealed sword should really spark some reaction.

Thirdly i think Aizen is a war potential. They have no idea where he stands nor the full extent of his Shinigami/hybrid powers. And his Shikai is extremely hax.

Urahara IMO i would regard as a war potential. Regardless of which side im on. He is obviously loyal to the spirit king (who we do not know how he stands with the whole Quincy thing) and would probably eradicate anything that tries to threaten its existance (as he put it). And he is the smartest man and probably one of the strongest fighters who do not rely on theyre Bankai.

All the above i mentioned are not in SS and like a lot of you figured, it would be rather retarded for the Stern to invade when the "war potentials" are on the scene. It came across like they wanted to avoid confrontation with them at all cost, even going behind theyre words and waging war the moment they hear Ichigo is not in SS.

So that takes Yamaji and Zaraki out of the question.

tret16
July 30, 2012, 05:57 PM
i think Yamamoto is one since he's stronger then most shinigami in bankai with just his shikai.... And also Kenpachi because he doesn't have bankai to begin with and yet he's as strong as any shinigami in the bankai... So it's like Kanpachi is constantly in bankai... The latest chapter just showed this too... He had already taken out two Quincies... and is starting the fight with the leader... i mean we know that he will lose againts him or not even fight him, but still he could be one...

deadsuit
July 31, 2012, 02:38 AM
My guess is
1. Ichigo (confirmed lol)
2. Urahara?
3. Yourichi (better get a zanpaktuo soon)
4. Kenpachi?
5. Grimmjow or other Vasto Lordes possibly?
maybe (hopefully not) Ichigo's sisters, Tatski, Orihime, Chad, lame-o's
or Ishhin, Uuryu, Ryuken.

Raizen
July 31, 2012, 10:13 AM
Not sure why people regard youruichi and urahara so highly. What in the manga has shown.them to be so powerful? Youruichi is mostly a close combat person. So even if she has a zanpaktou and uses it, it most likely won't increase any of her stats. It will probably be similar to soifon, a zanpaktou that fits her fighting style. And urahara is smart but nothing has shown.him to be high tier like someone like yama or the seniors

So it doesn't make sense.for either to be a war potential. I would place my bet more on orihime then them

jaymizzo
July 31, 2012, 10:29 AM
Not sure why people regard youruichi and urahara so highly. What in the manga has shown.them to be so powerful? Youruichi is mostly a close combat person. So even if she has a zanpaktou and uses it, it most likely won't increase any of her stats. It will probably be similar to soifon, a zanpaktou that fits her fighting style. And urahara is smart but nothing has shown.him to be high tier like someone like yama or the seniors

So it doesn't make sense.for either to be a war potential. I would place my bet more on orihime then them

I mean aside from the fact that they fought Aizen on equal grounds when non of the captains ever could... And the fact that Aizen essentially acknowledged Urahara as being the one of the only people who would be able to kill him (aside from Gin) and the fact that Ulquiorra essentially said that they would lose had they fought those two (means that Aizen did warn them about them) even after commenting on them being handicapped.

So many things point towards them being weak :-_-

Its like saying Isshin is not strong because he hasnt shown much in the Manga. To me, going toe to toe with Aizen and atleast surviving against him without his pity is a big accomplishment. KS Aside, non of those captains (aside from Yama) would have done jack sht.

Raizen
July 31, 2012, 10:43 AM
@jay u are a pretty reasonable poster but i have to really disagree with u here.

Against ss, Aizen didn't give them a chance to attack him, he used ks the whole time. It wasn't even a fair fight. But against youruichi and urahara, he didn't use.ks because after fusing with hokyoku he.became over confident, urahara acknowledged. He implicitly stated that his attacks.normally would not connect if Aizen was his normal.cautious self. Why? Because if Aizen was cautious, he would.be using.ks and youruichi and.urahara would not be able to lay a finger in him

Furthermore, ulqui never said he would lose, in fact it is the direct opposite. He stated that youruichi.and.urahara were the one at a disadvantage. You might want to check out that chapter again.

Note, i am not calling them weak. I am stating that they are not on the level of the seniors to me. To even compare them to yamamoto is ridiculous! He would kill both with just his bare hands

jaymizzo
July 31, 2012, 11:03 AM
u are a pretty reasonable poster but i have to really disagree with u here.


Aww you :x3


Against ss, Aizen didn't give them a chance to attack him, he used ks the whole time. It wasn't even a fair fight.

No, he didnt actually use it the whole time, he implied that he did, but Gin himself did note that even without KS Aizen would trample them with little effort.

I know KS is always active but Aizen does chose the moment for the hypnosis. So from how i saw it, he bummed the first wave, thought he should mind fk the rest and then came back and finished off the second wave.


But against youruichi and urahara, he didn't use.ks because after fusing with hokyoku he.became over confident, urahara acknowledged.

True, he became overconfident, but his powers then were that much above his normal powers. You cannot believe even for a minute that any of those other captains would have, even in a group dented Crystalized Aizen as much as those 3 did.


He implicitly stated that his attacks.normally would not connect if Aizen was his normal.cautious self.


That is true, though Aizen himself said that if it was not for the Hogyouku he would have died against Urahara.
Aizen by nature is arrogant and he believed that his powers were above any being, so dodging a low level Kido would have been ridiculous in his eyes.

I still believe that Aizen would have let all those Kido hit him just to show how futile theyre attempts at him were, regardless of the state.


Why? Because if Aizen was cautious, he would.be using.ks and youruichi and.urahara would not be able to lay a finger in him

KS is not everything though, Yama was under KS yet he managed to get Aizen to feel fear. Aizen by nature undersetimates his opponents and is arrogant, that has not changed much. He just let himself go a little against the group.


Furthermore, ulqui never said he would lose, in fact it is the direct opposite. He stated that youruichi.and.urahara were the one at a disadvantage. You might want to check out that chapter again.

I might have stretched a limb there, but Ulquiorra did tell Yammi ( the zero espada ) that he at his/theyre level they would not be much against them.

They were at a disadvantage because they had those guys to protect, which would not equate to an automatic loss. Ulquiorra just simply cautioned them, not telling them they would lose.


Note, i am not calling them weak. I am stating that they are not on the level of the seniors to me. To even compare them to yamamoto is ridiculous! He would kill both with just his bare hands

I very much doubt that.

I would place them in the same tier as the senior captains without a second thought and even place them in theyre own league just below Aizen and Yama. To say that Yama would kill them with his bare hands is really out of order.

Your completely discarding theyre Bankais, intellect and overall skill. I mean Isshin has not shown much, but you cannot seriously believe that toushiro who has shown much more could beat him :3c

River_Capulet
July 31, 2012, 11:12 AM
Everybody is forgetting about Mayuri? He fought against quincy letz stil and note how dangerous it was. By now, it's only natural for him to have found a way to counter it (took him only 1 hour to be able to counter 8th espada ability).

And we all know that Ishida is missing for some reason :))

tret16
July 31, 2012, 11:19 AM
actually if i'm not mistaken it was Urahara that essentially defeated Aizen. Mind you he wouldn't have been able to do it without Ichigo but the end result was infact do to Urahara... And what consists of being a war potential isn't simply power level... What really helps a side to win in a war is stratagy, which i think we all know Urahara has this role down in spades... If you were fighting in a war, wouldn't your first objective be to take down the stratagist? would, that way they can't do any coordination attacks or other such tactics... And not to mention that he has bankai but just hasn't used it yet and if i had to take a guess, Urahara won't use it untill he developed some type of devise to counter it which we all know he's goin to do... Which again to put him in the 5 war potential section... It was never stated that raiatsu and pure strength was the only thing that made you a war potential... just saying.

kkck
July 31, 2012, 12:43 PM
Well, it was urahara's kido which ultimately sealed the deal however that only happened when aizen got severely depowered to say the least. Urahara hardly had a part in the strategy of the whole thing. He merely set the grounds where SS could fight with aizen which is not to say much if he was actually ordered to do so. He did leave behind those kidos however there is the consideration that he did not actually do anything to make the kidos work. If it hadn't been for ichigo the kidos would not have worked at all and even then there is the consideration that it is highly likely that it was something which changed inside aizen that lead to him losing power and the kido working. Ultimately, nothing went on which could have been said to have been planned by urahara unless he somehow accounted for ichigo becoming a god among microbes and aizen suddenly not wanting to be godlike. Heck, urahara actually arrived to the war AFTER aizen became immortal even though mere chapters later he mentioned he thought the orb would make him effectively immortal. Wouldn't it make sense for him to at least have the decency of arriving earlier? Ok, it is plausible he thought the orb would already have made him immortal by the time the war started but then why wouldn't he tell SS that aizen might arrive there being effectively immortal? Why did he wait until aizen half killed the entire squads? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to arrive as soon as possible with yoruichi to deal with the espada? The vizards had trouble entering the war zone but there is no reason for that to be the case with urahara considering he made the 4 pillars. We should even question whether urahara cared about winning the war about aizen at this point considering that if that was the case then he made so many poor decisions it is astounding.

I agree with aizen choosing the moments for his hypnosis and I do doubt every single instance we have seen him at is an illusion. It is kinda hard to prove something one way or the other but overall aizen has stopped ichigo's bankai and komamura's shikai with his bare hands, took out a captain with a failed kido, forced an espada to his knees on reiatsu alone and ultimately shunpoed into 4 captains and defeated them at essentially the same time. I think he actually was every bit as stronger than everyone else as gin mentioned.

Well, to be fair ishin went on against aizen and held his ground. Toshiro went up against aizen and the only effort he ever made on the whole thing was shunpoing in to cut him up. Heck, aizen has won against bankai hitsugaya twice by merely shunpoing and slashing.

Well, with ulquiorra being 4th and yami being 0 I kinda doubt urahara and yoruichi would have won that one. Yami in particular gave kenpachi and byakuya a lot of trouble, they were actually heavily wounded by the time they returned to SS (even if they pretended the opposite).

Miyagi
July 31, 2012, 02:09 PM
I don't think Aizen is a war potential for the sole reason that he is in jail. Unless VR is planning to help Aizen escape from underground prison, there is no reason for them to include Aizen in their priority list. Actually, according to Quilge, VR considers Aizen dead. War potentials don't seem to be potential allies either, I have no idea where Aizen fits in VR's plans.

River_Capulet
August 01, 2012, 03:06 AM
I place my bet in Ishida and Mayuri being war potentials. They are the ones that knows the most about quincies. Furthermore, This arc is all about Ishida. Note how he has been missing and how Opie said that he shouldn't talk too much about Ishida with Ichigo.

Same for Mayuri, he is the most knowledgeable person in SS about quincies. And lets not forget about the stuffs he found in Szayel's lab and load them in a wagon to be brought back to SS. Considering that this is the final arc, i believe that whatever was found in that lab would be crucial in the war.

jaymizzo
August 01, 2012, 06:23 AM
Well, with ulquiorra being 4th and yami being 0 I kinda doubt urahara and yoruichi would have won that one. Yami in particular gave kenpachi and byakuya a lot of trouble, they were actually heavily wounded by the time they returned to SS (even if they pretended the opposite).

Him being 4th and Yammi being 0 really meant nothing. He told Yammi that he would not do much against those two anyway.

Aizen admitted that Urahara could kill him, and so far only strong people have been able to burst out 90 lvl Kidos or even make Aizen flinch. Think about this, Urahara must be damn confident in his abilities and plans to show up at the very last minute just as Aizen was transforming and yet did not seem phased by the initial transformation. Even Isshin came after all the captains were defeated. Arriving late doesnt mean much nor take anything away from them/him.

Urahara IMO is strong, I dont understand why people underestimate him, so badly that they put him in the same league as Byakuya.

kkck
August 01, 2012, 02:25 PM
Being able to use level 90th kido only means that, you are able to use level 90th kido. And while it is without a doubt useful, the actual power it has depends on the person who uses it. In itself using high level kido is not an indication of actually having a lot of power behind it basically. In the end urahara being capable of said kido does not even suggest he has reiatsu stronger than byakuya. Take a look at hachi. He can probably pull consecutive fully powered level 90th kido and he probably does not have captain level reiatsu without his mask.

And for urahara it does mean something to get there late. Why in the world was there a benefit for him to get there at that particular point? Is there an indication that he was doing anything else? Why deal with aizen alone when he could have helped the captains so as to have the captains back him up in his plans? He believed aizen to be immortal and he chooses to fight him alone rather than with the other captains? at least ishin could have had reasons for not wanting to be seen by the captains but how is it a good plan to appear at the last moment to use some kidos which would work if aizen for some reason stops being godlike? Its not like urahara even did anything there. He did not even stall aizen on his plans, he merely set up a couple of kido to which aizen was effectively immune too?

No one is saying urahara is not strong, he is, but he is not as powerful as aizen (he is just as smart or perhaps smarter), he is not as strong as yama and he is not at a level where he would be out of the league of any particular captain.

jaymizzo
August 01, 2012, 02:58 PM
@ Kkck

I guess we will have to wait and see in the manga.

But take into account that Aizen did say that Urahara could kill him and was quite shocked or atleast seemed threatened that Urahara was about to use a full incantation.

We have yet to see a weak character bust out such a high level Kido, infact it seemed out of the ordinary for someone to posses such high knowledge or power (if i rememeber correctly when Aizen used it both times against Tessai and Komamura)

Aizen was wary enough to try and stop Urahara from using a level 90 Kido. Which then made Aizen transform. In terms of power, though not really a testimonial, Urahara was able to toy with Yammi and in the TBTP Aizen was extremely wary of him.

Its like saying Shinji is not a cut above the usual captains.

kkck
August 01, 2012, 09:40 PM
Well, right after aizen supposedly trying to stop that 90th level kido we had urahara saying aizen was careless. And aizen did kinda take that kido full on when everything suggest that his speed and KS should have been enough to dodge the kido. I don't think we can really tell exactly how wary aizen was.

To be fair, kido is in itself an incredibly rare skill. Still, we have hachi who as far as we know is not actually on part with the actual captains and yet he uses high level kido rather casually. Still, more important than having high level kido here is having a butload of reiatsu. Even if there are people capable of high level kido among the non normally seen shinigami we are not likely to see them since they wouldn't have the reiatsu for their level 90th kido to matter.

gh0un
August 24, 2012, 08:27 PM
Guys i just reread some of the earlier cbapters of this arc and refreshed my mind on these "5 special war potentials".
We know that Ichigo is one of them and since we know that his bankai cant be stolen by the quincy, it leads me to assume that these special war potentials are probably all beings that either cant have their bankai stolen, or are incredibly strong even without their bankai, thus being more of a threat to the Vandenreich than the usual captain.

My guess is the 5 special war potentials are:
1. Ichigo because his bankai cant be stolen for some reason
2. Yamamoto because he can wipe anyones ass without his bankai
3. Aizen, because he can wipe anyones ass without his bankai (its the perfect setup for him to return)
4. Ishida Uryuu (there was some kind of foreshadowing during the fight of Ichigo vs Ivan)
5. Zaraki Kenpachi?

Im really struggling at figuring out who these 5 special war potentials could be.

Bajan4eva1
August 24, 2012, 08:59 PM
Guys i just reread some of the earlier cbapters of this arc and refreshed my mind on these "5 special war potentials".
We know that Ichigo is one of them and since we know that his bankai cant be stolen by the quincy, it leads me to assume that these special war potentials are probably all beings that either cant have their bankai stolen, or are incredibly strong even without their bankai, thus being more of a threat to the Vandenreich than the usual captain.

My guess is the 5 special war potentials are:
1. Ichigo because his bankai cant be stolen for some reason
2. Yamamoto because he can wipe anyones ass without his bankai
3. Aizen, because he can wipe anyones ass without his bankai (its the perfect setup for him to return)
4. Ishida Uryuu (there was some kind of foreshadowing during the fight of Ichigo vs Ivan)
5. Urahara Kisuke?

Im really struggling at figuring out who these 5 special war potentials could be.

Well I know a few of the characters i'm about to name haven't played that much of a role in the series, but i think it would be a good way for them to play a bigger role. I think the five war potentitals are the Vizards. I mean if we look at "war potentials" its not necessarily combat ability, special abilities, or reitsu levels. It could be just the simple fact that their Bankai's can't be stolen and the Quincy medallion is useless. Thus they're the wildcards. I mean if i try to think about it logically Ichigo couldn't have his Bankai stolen. So what do Shinji, Rōjūrō, Love, Kensei, and Ichigo all have in common? They're all captain level shinigami who can bankai. What if their hollow powers somewhat negate the Quincy medallion and thus they're bankai's cant be stolen.

So my list is:

1) Ichigo
2) Shinji
3) Rose
4) Love
5) Kensei

Remember my theory isn't just about power (since I think poor Kensei got pwned by WW off panel) but the fact they may have something the Quincy can't take.

The only ones I'd substitue are Kenpachi, Inoue, and Ishida.

Kenpachi - if you read bleach this needs no explanation
Inoue - power to reject = godlike powers, needs no explanataion
Ishida - Can't remember for sure but didn't Kirge say something like there's no way he could be stronger than Ishida?

:cheez

The Newbie.
August 24, 2012, 11:14 PM
Guys i just reread some of the earlier cbapters of this arc and refreshed my mind on these "5 special war potentials".
We know that Ichigo is one of them and since we know that his bankai cant be stolen by the quincy, it leads me to assume that these special war potentials are probably all beings that either cant have their bankai stolen, or are incredibly strong even without their bankai, thus being more of a threat to the Vandenreich than the usual captain.

My guess is the 5 special war potentials are:
1. Ichigo because his bankai cant be stolen for some reason
2. Yamamoto because he can wipe anyones ass without his bankai
3. Aizen, because he can wipe anyones ass without his bankai (its the perfect setup for him to return)
4. Ishida Uryuu (there was some kind of foreshadowing during the fight of Ichigo vs Ivan)
5. Urahara Kisuke?

Im really struggling at figuring out who these 5 special war potentials could be.

The reason Ichigo is a war potential is because he can use bankai, which means his fight potential increases dramatically. Kirge already implied that going Volstandig against a bankai is useless as all they can do is use defensive blut. But that must be a specific case, maybe Ishida and Ryuken could be war potentials if they manage to get their hands on a glove.

Nekoashide
August 26, 2012, 09:33 PM
Ichigo - Cant steal his BK
Urahara - Doesnt need BK, very smart and calculating
Ichigo's Dad - Same as Ichigo
Yama - Can fight without BK
Kenpatchi - No BK to steal, can fight without one.

tousendrinksbleach
August 27, 2012, 01:49 PM
And for urahara it does mean something to get there late. Why in the world was there a benefit for him to get there at that particular point? Is there an indication that he was doing anything else? Why deal with aizen alone when he could have helped the captains so as to have the captains back him up in his plans? He believed aizen to be immortal and he chooses to fight him alone rather than with the other captains? at least ishin could have had reasons for not wanting to be seen by the captains but how is it a good plan to appear at the last moment to use some kidos which would work if aizen for some reason stops being godlike? Its not like urahara even did anything there. He did not even stall aizen on his plans, he merely set up a couple of kido to which aizen was effectively immune too?

.
i dont know what you have with urahara ...but we both know that was urahara's plan . there was no luck , things WENT THE WAY HE WANTED

as for you saying that urahara isnt strong enough to be a war potentiel ...well just tell me , who sealed aizen? urahara is the brain and ichigo is the brawn , and that has been the case since chapter 1
i dont really care wether he is a war potentiel or not (in case he isnt , then the quincies leader is a retard) but i'm sure it will be his plan that will finish off the quincies
and btw, he isnt as smart as aizen , since aizen with all his arrogance admited he was inferior to urahara in terms of intelligence

---------- Post added at 12:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

actually... maybe the king is more intelligent than he gives the impression . ichigo reached a level agasint aizen that would allow him to one shot every single quincy then headbutt defeat the king (clearly he isn't anymore , but certainly he will become at the end of the arc/manga )
so that would make the 4 other war potentiels people with far ,far more strengh than your average captain ...
1- ichigo is comfirmed
2- maybe yama ???? 90% sure he is one , at least he beat the shit out of the king during their last meeting
3- now it gets hard to tell .............ishin ?because he knows how to use final getsuga tenshou and would also be able to one shot everyone ...and actually i think he is still capable of toying with every single VR with shikai alone(exept the king , to whom he might even lose since this is the last villain)
4-urahara maybe? if the king is well informed about ichigo, then the mastermind behind everything might scare him too
5- ishida?? kirge even admitted he should be inferior to ishida in terms of strengh ... he spoke of it in a way that made it look like ishida was like the VR king ,if you know what i mean .

perhaps ryuken?being ishin's rival and a quincy i would expect him to beat easily every single VR exept the king
orihime ? maybe not since the king didnt say that they had 2 war potentiels in HM . ofc , i'm expecting him to know that orihime follows ichigo like his shadow , otherwise she could still be a war potentiel
but regardless of the king's opinion , orihime should be a war potentiel ... she could restore bankais to the captains and bring the deads to life ... her lack of super-natural strengh is her only problem , but i doubt you can touch her before ichigo one shot you

kkck
August 27, 2012, 02:12 PM
The extent to which we can reasonably assume urahara planned for something was that he set up the kidos inside aizen. I don't see what else he could have possibly planned for. Really, what else is there? I guess he could have conceivably planned that if his kidos were to fail when initially applied (which they in fact did) he could fight aizen to a point where the kidos would work however if that was the case then he would have failed miserably as he would have never gotten to a point where his kido worked. Assuming everything went the way urahara planned for there are still many issues. I can buy urahara conceiving in his mind that aizen would become immortal. What I cannot even fathom is urahara planning to be defeated by aizen alongside yoruichi and ishin, then predicting aizen would destroy the train in dangai thus allowing ichigo precisely the amount of time he would need to rise to a new dimension of power(which is also precisely matches the amount of power ishin would have left after his prolonged confrontation with aizen) thus leading to an epic fight with aizen which would result in aizen losing his power due to strong inner emotional issues thus allowing the previously failed kido to take effect. That would not even qualify as planning. That would be witchcraft and urahara would be a witch with the ability to look into the future and see different scenarios. Or what else did urahara plan? Was it within his calculations that aizen would slaughter the captains in battle? Was it among his plans that yamamoto would go suicidal on aizen rather than fight him? Was it among his plans that yamamoto would have his zampakuto seal by wonderweiss? Was it among his plans that wonderweiss would explode with yamamoto's power thus putting at risk even his own life?

BrunoGF
August 27, 2012, 02:24 PM
Ishida isn't a war potential - he's not suposed to be involved on this war. His father forbid him to involve with Shinigamis for the sole reason he knew what was going to happen.

Urahara and Orihime aren't either because the only potential mentioned was Ichigo, who was with them at that time.

And I don't think "war potential" means people who are powerful. It means someone who have potential to cause trouble to the SR. So I would exclude obvious names like Kenpachi, Yama etc.

tousendrinksbleach
August 27, 2012, 02:52 PM
yeah because urahara wouldnt cause troubles ...
orihime goes whenever ichigo does, urahara doesnt ...he didnt show himself to kirge who reported about ichigo's whearabouts to the king

tret16
August 30, 2012, 02:56 PM
Looks like Kenpachi has already been proven to be a war potential. not surprised there. I alway's thought of him as one since he alway's had captain class strength without even goin bankai.

Bajan4eva1
August 30, 2012, 04:01 PM
Looks like Kenpachi has already been proven to be a war potential. not surprised there. I alway's thought of him as one since he alway's had captain class strength without even goin bankai.

Are you sure? I've been wondering about this since the chapter came out. In one translation i see Bach says he's a war potential and the other just comments on his strength.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v53/c505/17.html

http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/46297151/20

Duniak
August 30, 2012, 04:37 PM
Are you sure? I've been wondering about this since the chapter came out. In one translation i see Bach says he's a war potential and the other just comments on his strength.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v53/c505/17.html

http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/46297151/20

Someone already proved he said "war potential". At least he proved Bach called Kenpachi same as Kirge called Ichigo, and we translated that then as "war potential".

Bajan4eva1
August 31, 2012, 09:28 AM
Someone already proved he said "war potential". At least he proved Bach called Kenpachi same as Kirge called Ichigo, and we translated that then as "war potential".

Ah ok. Then that leaves 3 then...If Yama-ji isn't one I'll be surprised.

thornofcarrion
August 31, 2012, 11:12 AM
I was 100% sure about Kenpachi. Not using a bankia and a monstrous reiatsu was enough to think him as one of the potentials. Urahara is another person I already mentioned. Yamamoto should be a potential too. His shikai alone is humongous.

Miyagi
August 31, 2012, 01:47 PM
BadKarma's translation (http://mangahelpers.com/t/badkarma/releases/35539) says that not only Kenpachi is a war potential but he is also war potential Number 1. It seems war potentials are indeed people with very high potential, I wonder if it means VR sees Kenpachi having more potential than other war potentials including Ichigo. Considering Ichigo is the main protagonist, it would be a bit weird though.

Duniak
August 31, 2012, 02:04 PM
If Ichigo is war potential, than Isshin with his Engetsu is too. 2 left. I'm pretty sure it's Yamma and someone else. Well, war potentials might be people that are "other". Ichigo and Isshin and -getsu or Squad 0 thingy, Kenpachi and his power without bankai and... if it's judged by being "other" not by power, than Yama might not be war potential. Aaaand he will die, for sure. Make some room for Squad 0!

Miyagi
August 31, 2012, 04:44 PM
I will not be surprised if Yamamoto isn't a war potential. Not that it's because Yamamoto lacks power but there's a possibility that these war potentials may be people who haven't realized their full potential yet. Under this assumption, even Hitsugaya is a better candidate than Yamamoto. If being a war potential is only a matter of strength, I guess we could find more powerful characters than Kenpachi.

tousendrinksbleach
August 31, 2012, 06:37 PM
i kinda see your point ,
shinigamis that can fight at/above kenpachi's level with shikai alone :
shinji
shunsui
yama
urahara
ishin
unohana (presumed)
yoruichi
and maybe even rose/kensei with their masks


why would kenpachi be a war potentiel?

Captain Garlock
August 31, 2012, 07:49 PM
Its basically as follows.
Ichigo is the trump card. Hes clearly a quincy and thats why his bankai cant be stolen.
Isshun simply because im sure he has a strong connection to the quincy seeing as how every arc we get to see something new from him.
Ishida and his dad obvious traitors to the qunicy ranks so they will prove to be useful.
Orihime shes a hack.

Aonsaithya
August 31, 2012, 08:42 PM
I think Kenpachi is a war potential because he was "quite strong" in that novel which was confirmed to be canon. I mean, "quite strong" as in insanely powerful, and would probably be the strongest character around if he had access to bankai. Knowing that makes Bachbeard look quite scary, frankly. Difficult to say how long the fight took, but Kenpachi had the time to decide to take off his eyepatch so it can't have been a one-shot affair. I wonder how did Bachbeard beat him like that, was it just brute blute strength or some special ability like the one he used to discipline his subordinates apart?

Well, at least Ken~chan shouldn't be dead yet. He's still holding his sword (so this could be a funky moment for his awaited inner-world social call), and Kubo said he wants to go into more detail about his history. Heh, perhaps we get the mandatory pre-death flashback next chapter.

Had I been Kenpachi, I would have ran towards the Sternritters/Bachbeard while yelling "BAN...". I would've liked to see those expressions.

EDIT:
"It was revealed in the Bleach novel “Spirits are always with you”, written by Ryohgo Narita, which was released recently. The power of his Shikai is that Zaraki automatically assumes the power of his enemy, no matter how strong or weak he is, Zaraki will always be on the same level. This was also hinted at during various occasions in the manga, when Zaraki talked about “feeling his blade getting sharper”. Kubo himself confirmed it to be correct in the afterword of the novel, and he was completely excited about it, because he didn’t think anyone would ever figure it out before he reveals it."

River_Capulet
August 31, 2012, 11:02 PM
The term "potential", if there's no mistrandlation/ misintetpretation, refer to possible threats. If the Vr decides to attack Ss, theh must have had a pretty good idea about Yamo's power, so he would nit be a potential threat but an actual threat. The term "potential" here is for people who's power are incomprehendable for them. In such case, Ichigo and Kennybgits perfectly. Ichigo has those mysterious hollow/fullbring/fgt to them. While Kenny has huge potentisl to grow because he skipped many of shinigami's important power ups. Vr can never know if he's able to communicate with his zan and what is the extent of his potential once he does.

Base on those assumptions I agree with Miyagi about Hitsu since the Vr don't know the extent of his complete growth.
Ishida has also been hinted as a major char in this arc, so he'll be a potential threat.

thornofcarrion
September 01, 2012, 09:32 AM
Somehow, I could not agree with Kenpachi being war potential number 1. The other person we know, Ichigo should be stronger. May be VR has different means to gauge the opponents.

The Newbie.
September 01, 2012, 11:16 AM
Somehow, I could not agree with Kenpachi being war potential number 1. The other person we know, Ichigo should be stronger. May be VR has different means to gauge the opponents.

1= Weakest
5= Strongest.

thornofcarrion
September 01, 2012, 11:22 AM
1= Weakest
5= Strongest.

Makes sense. If people like Urahara or Isshin are among the 5 potentials, I can see it a feasible ranking system.

BrunoGF
September 03, 2012, 08:14 PM
Well it seems I was wrong and Kenpachi is (was? :3c) a War Potential. Too bad he must have wasted time "enjoying the fight" and "adapting himself to the enemy's reiatsu" while a cool head Bach wiped him out on 1-hit K.O.

That leaves 3 potentials yet to be discovered...

Cyrs
September 06, 2012, 11:40 PM
I'm guessing:

1. Kenpachi (confirmed)
2. Ichigo (confirmed)
3. Yamamoto
4. Aizen
5. ??? (maybe Unohana, Isshin, someone else)

I think Aizen is likely one, and that the Quincy are going to release him to fight on their side. I'd be very, very surprised is he just stayed in prison during this whole arc...

Hakuteiken
September 07, 2012, 01:46 AM
I'm guessing:

1. Kenpachi (confirmed)
2. Ichigo (confirmed)
3. Yamamoto
4. Aizen
5. ??? (maybe Unohana, Isshin, someone else)

I think Aizen is likely one, and that the Quincy are going to release him to fight on their side. I'd be very, very surprised is he just stayed in prison during this whole arc...

Releasing Aizen and thinking that he will cooperate even against the enemy is a risky move for both sides.
No, it's not a risky move, I changed my mind.
It's a blunder.

thornofcarrion
September 07, 2012, 03:05 AM
May be so but if it can get him out from his prison, I don't see he would hesitate too much. Aizen isn't a normal shinigami, he is transcendental being. Assuming, Ichigo's bankai could not be stolen for the same reason.

devstauk
September 07, 2012, 04:14 AM
Please re-frame from using azien as a war potential he will not return till at least the final stages of the manga or war

kkck
September 07, 2012, 10:03 AM
Aizen being a war potential is unlikely for the time being IMO. He is up there with the stupidly powerful people in terms of power however he would be a liability for everyone. The only side he would fight is his own. I do think he will have a role this arc, just not as a free person. Taking into consideration his interest in the king, his experiments and the time he has been around for I would think it is likely he at least knows the quincy in some form. Perhaps from the war 200 years ago. I think that at some point he will appear in a flashback and perhaps the gang will go to wherever he is imprisoned in order to look for answers, as he will be the man who for some reason has all the answers. Perhaps the quincy will go get the orb from him (assuming he still has it) too.

Regret
September 07, 2012, 04:08 PM
I thought Aizen could be ruled out of being a war potential as Opie implied that the vandenreich believed him to be dead. I can't imagine he would say that Aizen wasn't worth much if he were a war potential although I suppose the same was said about Kenpachi but only after he was properly evaluated. I guess it wouldn't be crazy if the war potentials changed at some point after this initial battle.

I'm still not convinced that war potentials are just the 5 current strongest people in the series. If they were only about threats I can't imagine why SS wasn't attacked when Ichigo was powerless. I'm leaning more towards it being about unrealized power which could be hidden in just about any character regardless of how strong they are now. I'm still holding on to the idea that one of the potentials is a new character for the arc.

Bajan4eva1
September 11, 2012, 01:47 PM
I'm guessing:

1. Kenpachi (confirmed)
2. Ichigo (confirmed)
3. Yamamoto
4. Aizen
5. ??? (maybe Unohana, Isshin, someone else)

I think Aizen is likely one, and that the Quincy are going to release him to fight on their side. I'd be very, very surprised is he just stayed in prison during this whole arc...

Ah well it would've been nice if it were some of the vaizards. I mean missing for 100 years who would know what the hell they could possibly do. But now I'm thinking...

1. Kenpachi (confirmed) - powerful as hell
2. Ichigo (confirmed) - protagonist, when he did fight Kenpachi it was a draw, bankai can't be stolen, and probably a few other reasons
3. Yamamoto - after seeing his Bankai today I'd be surprised if this guy is not a potential
4. Isshin - like father like son
5. Unohana - healing ability, Shunsui and Ukitake's reactions to her, and she's got a look like she's not to be f#$ked with. :hee

hakuthehedgehog
September 16, 2012, 03:01 PM
How come you guys aren't accounting Urahara? Intelligence is key in any war, and Urahara is a genius.

If he discovers a way to counter the medallion, then the VR lose a great advantage.

Bajan4eva1
September 17, 2012, 02:07 PM
How come you guys aren't accounting Urahara? Intelligence is key in any war, and Urahara is a genius.

If he discovers a way to counter the medallion, then the VR lose a great advantage.

Agreed, intelligence is key in any war. The only reason I didn't include him is because thinking back to when Ichigo arrived in Hueco Mundo, Kirge sent a message stating the war potential Ichigo Kurosaki was there. If Urahara was one I think Kirge would have sent that in the message as well. Unless he didn't see him at first .

kkck
September 17, 2012, 02:31 PM
Well, urahara is mostly a scientist. There are different kinds of intelligence around and military strategy might just not be urahara's field of expertize. Granted most manga or comics make it look like intelligent people are suddenly good at any mental task on merit of being intelligent though. To be fair urahara has never actually shown he is a brilliant military strategist. He developed the kidos to defeat aizen but all of that required science expertize, not military one per say. Of course, in the end the only actual military strategy we have seen so far comes from aizen. He used orihime to draw SS attention from the big picture and get his hands on the ryoka military asset and maybe lure some captains to HM as to fight less of them in FKT. Urahara just throws random inventions around and uses them exactly how they are supposed to be used.

0Xellos
September 18, 2012, 05:45 AM
Scientific intelligence is about as important here as military one, because of the oh-so-famous medallions. Even if the bosses' fight might not be affected by it, they're the key to captains whooping SRs' asses all over SS.

devstauk
September 18, 2012, 06:37 AM
The main factor of Urahara not being a war potential in my opinion is due to kirge not revealing him as one when he attacked him, okay kirge died pretty quickly

tousendrinksbleach
September 18, 2012, 06:50 AM
Well, urahara is mostly a scientist. There are different kinds of intelligence around and military strategy might just not be urahara's field of expertize. Granted most manga or comics make it look like intelligent people are suddenly good at any mental task on merit of being intelligent though. To be fair urahara has never actually shown he is a brilliant military strategist. He developed the kidos to defeat aizen but all of that required science expertize, not military one per say. Of course, in the end the only actual military strategy we have seen so far comes from aizen. He used orihime to draw SS attention from the big picture and get his hands on the ryoka military asset and maybe lure some captains to HM as to fight less of them in FKT. Urahara just throws random inventions around and uses them exactly how they are supposed to be used.
i will have to disagree... at the very least he is better than yamamoto (or maybe yama just sucks at scheming)
He knew that all of SS plans were useless against aizen so he came up with his own plan , and he knew ichigo would beat aizen ...
IMO, urahara is just not interested in military tactics, he choose the scientific approach, and he is right because one has to use his most powerful assets

---------- Post added at 05:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 AM ----------


The main factor of Urahara not being a war potential in my opinion is due to kirge not revealing him as one when he attacked him, okay kirge died pretty quickly

juha has shown his ignorance when it comes to the 5 war potentiel
his list probably does not include : orihime (godlt powers ,and probably will get even godlier) , ryuuken (probably the strongest living quincy) ,urahara (if he knew about aizen's seal he would probably have a list of 2 war potentiel only with ichigo and urahara...this guy will end the war like always , his plans are ichigo's)

so i doubt his potentiels will include : ishin , tessai , aizen
because the guy only knows about SS and ichigo by the look of things (he should have a 10 wars potentiel otherwhise)

predictions : ichigo/ kenpachi /yama /unohana / GOD DAMN MAYUURI ,WHY DO YOU GUYS ALWAYS FORGET MAYUURI, he might not know urahara a lot but he certainly did his researchs about mayuuri , so i expect him to be a potentiel

Zehahaha
September 18, 2012, 12:05 PM
and he knew ichigo would beat aizen ...


Nope
There's two things to take into account about that whole Aizen vs Ichigo :

1- Ichigo, when Aizen was in his cocoon state, he was the only who could feel his reiatsu, it means one thing, he have potential, but he wasn't at Aizen's level yet
2- Ichigo was lucky, if Aizen didn't destroy the Kototsu, in no way Ishin could've used the Kaikyo Kotei to stop the flow of the Koryu and give Ichigo time to use Jinzen and acquire the FGT

While Urahara may have taken into account the first point, in no way he'd have taken the second point into account, because in no way he could've predicted it, he isn't a fortune teller

It was luck (and Aizen's cockiness too) that caused his defeat in the end

kkck
September 18, 2012, 12:52 PM
Urahara thought aizen would be immortal, something which he in all of his awesome genius neglected to tell SS. Not only he didn't tell anyone about the possibility of the big bad being literally immortal but also the shenanigans he pulled failed miserably at dealing with the situation. I mean, lets look at each thing aizen tried. First we have the wrists things which made aizen explode from the inside out. Aizen survived being torn apart from the inside out like nothing. Its not like his immediate reaction to this was "holy shit he survived exploding from the inside", he knew perfectly well that would not work. Ok, lets imagine urahara's plan was not that but rather he went for the sealing kido which worked at the end. When initially applied the kido plainly did not work, thats a fact. Then urahara proceeded to do just what he as a genius is not supposed to do; he went and fought aizen on the front lines. Naturally he got his ass handed to him while dealing precisely no damage.

Now, lets assume he thought ichigo could under the right circumstances pull this off. What did urahara do for the circumstances to be right? Ichigo needed 3 months of dangai training to get to a point where he could defeat aizen however the fact was that aizen needed a significantly shorter amount of time to murder some 100000 people and make the soul key. Does it make sense urahara would have planned for dangai training? We know for a fact that the cleaner is essentially immune to reiatsu so for urahara to have planned that he must have thought out a way to remove the train so that ichigo could train for enough time to become strong enough to defeat aizen. So, since urahara made absolutely nothing to ensure that ichigo could train in dangai to get FGT and transcendental powers the situation would be that it was sheer luck that aizen just happened to destroy the train for the lolz and allow ichigo to train there. If anything, taking this part (http://www.mangareader.net/94-56926-13/bleach/chapter-417.html) in consideration not only it was not urahara who actually did anything to help at all but it was aizen who planned for ichigo to get transcendental powers by leaving a chance for him to train. So..... was urahara's plan or better yet, "strategy", that aizen would leave behind a chance for ichigo to train which would not surprisingly backfire horribly for him? More so, if we take ichigo''s words for it then it was not even ichigo who actually defeated aizen, ichigo used FGT even though he had brushed off all of aizen's techniques with a swing of his blade or hand, but rather it was aizen beating himself taking in consideration he ultimately would have lost because the orb took away his powers. As far as the manga has cared to show us aizen was defeated by sheer luck (him running into the train and destroying it for not good reason, ishin being healthy enough for ichigo to train, aizen having his power taken away by the orb).... How could a mind plan for all of this? The plan would be so needlessly complicated and absurd and unsubstantiated that even a james bond villain would feel a desperate need to kick urahara in the groin in anger due to the sheer absurdity and required amount of luck. This isn't a strategy, it's more along the lines of crystal ball future gazing (which would make sense considering aizen had a wishing machine).

Yamamoto did his fair bit of stupid (say, go suicidal with his zampakuto even though he later seems to believe he could have defeated aizen with his bare hands) however that was more along the lines of what he was supposed to do. He trapped aizen so that the captains could fight the espada for one thing and even as massively stupid as it was he did have a countermeasure to deal with aizen should he defeat the captains. Aizen did have wonderweiss which was bad for yamamoto but that at large would have been basically impossible to plan for. Only way to vaguely predict that would have been for everyone to know at least what the orb did, which urahara never actually seemed to find out and if he did he never bothered to tell anyone that aizen had a damned fully functional wishing machine. At least it would make sense for aizen to plan for wonderweiss to absorb any flames yamamoto released (although the scale being so absurd was just luck, it could have gone any other way).


So the scenarios regarding planning and military strategy as far as urahara goes:

1.- He is plain horrible at it. He withholds crucial information and relies on luck.

2.- The author made him such an overwhelmingly good strategist that he basically appears to be gazing into the future and actually succesfully plan for aizen to do everything to screw himself over INCLUDING literally screwing himself over by wishing himself out of his powers.

3.- urahara actually somehow looks into the future and literally knew aizen would screw himself over if he did a specific set of things. This however does not qualify urahara as a good or any sort of strategist. Its like claiming to be a good student while cheating at every exam.

Another thing regarding yamamoto as a strategist is that ultimately petty tricks don't work here. Aizen is the only real strategist in the series in a quite literal way and most of that happened before the actual fights took place. He has gone for targets, deception, divide and conquer and so on.... Most of his actions during the arcs involving him were for the sake of trickery. All urahara has done in comparison is develop shiny new gadgets and prance around from the front. This is so absurd that even when he initially met aizen during the war he didn't start with his shiny new gadgets, he started by announcing himself with an energy beam which he had every reason to believe would not work. Based on what urahara said he would not have even been able to even put either kido in aizen had aizen actually had his guard up. How urahara was ever a part of the second squad is beyond me as even the basics of sneaking on an enemy seem to elude him.

Based on what we have seen urahara is by all intents and purposes strategy impaired. He is limited to using shiny new gadgets.

The Newbie.
September 18, 2012, 05:00 PM
1.- Nobody knew Aizen would fuse with the Hogyoku. The Karakura battle happened months before Urahara predicted it would. After Aizen revealed the Hogyoku was in his chest, all the captains were biting dust under debris, so going around lifting rocks and telling them "Hey, Aizen is immortal" wouldn't have had any purpose whatsoever.

2.- Urahara used the seal. Both the wrist shackles and the seal where the last resort to stop Aizen. Remember how Urahara, who created the Hogyoku, didn't know how to destroy it. The guy who can literally make anything out of thin air could not destroy it, much less when fused with the third or fourth strongest character in the series. After both failed, the only option was to try and take Aizen down.

3.- Why would Urahara have to plan Dangai training? It was purely coincidental. Aizen knew Ichigo would reach unprecedented levels, so probably Urahara too. Aizen later stated that he expected Ichigo to arrive with a new power, so he stopped running after the gang and decided to hang their bodies somewhere visible for the time being until Ichigo arrived. Surely Urahara was eavesdropping on Aizen's plan. Also, many captains believed Ichigo would save the day. They knew he was special and Urahara probably knew that at that point Ichigo was at a transcendental level.

4.- Ichigo could already feel Aizen's reiatsu. He's also been able to learn almost anything in hours or days. Believing that Ichigo could do something in just a few hours was not much of a stretch.

5.- It doesn't take a crystal ball to understand that part where Aizen said his plan was to make Ichigo grow to later absorb him.

6.- Urahara believed the Hogyoku could break the barriers between a shinigami and a hollow, because that's was his intention when he created it. Aizen had to understand the Hogyoku to realize its true purpose was to simply break the barriers of any living being.

7.- Urahara gave the captains all he knew.

8.- Urahara is simply good at listening. Aizen used Ichigo as an experiment and Urahara placed the seal hoping Ichigo would surpass Aizen.

9.- Urahara didn't know Aizen would "wish himself to be powerless". The whole "I can read minds when we cross swords" is just the spoon fed way to show how Ichigo has become able to comprehend his opponents. That part about Aizen wanting to be normal was Ichigo's interpretation of how Aizen become isolated by his own power, and maybe deep inside he knew this.

10.- Whoa whoa whoa, wait. So SHOOTING AN ENEMY FROM BEHIND RIGHT THROUGH THE CHEST is not a good method of assassination? Now you are going to tell me 1kg of cotton is harder than 1kg of steel. And no, he didn't have "every reason to believe it wouldn't work". Aizen was still Aizen and not fully transformed. He was still mortal before the cocoon.

So many logical problems with your post.

kkck
September 18, 2012, 05:35 PM
1.- Urahara knew aizen would fuse with the orb (http://www.mangareader.net/94-57630-18/bleach/chapter-421.html) and developed the kido accordingly. Obviously telling them after getting their asses handed to them would have been useless however that is a crucial bit of information for before the fight.

2.- They weren't the final measures, they were the only things which urahara came up with. Both failed. And neither showcases a real strategist, this is just using shiny new gadgets. Ultimately incalculable amounts of luck defeated aizen.

3.- It was pure coincidental, that was my entire point. The very things which brought about aizen's defeat were beyond the scope of what urahara could have ever planned for. Not much of urahara being a strategist as far as aizens defeat goes on this way.

4.- Its an overwhelming gamble. Ichigo took over 1 month merely to actually learn his vizard powers (1 month to get to 11 seconds with the mask and the rest during his fight with grimmjow). Urahara counting on ichigo learning his true power in the time it would have taken aizen to make the key is beyond absurd. The whole thing was pure luck.

5.- I was responding at the notion that urahara had an idea of what he was doing here. For urahara to have planned for this he would have also had to account for random unpredictable things to turn out exactly as he planned. We do agree on this point though, your second point pretty much mentions a big enough chunk of what happened was coincidental.

6.- And still urahara knew the orb would make aizen immortal which is completely incoherent with the notion that it would make him half hollow only. I daresay urahara had a pretty good idea of what the orb did by the time he met aizen. Or we can assume this is not the sort of thing kubo normally does and it is a huge plot hole.

7.- He certainly didn't. Otherwise ichigo would have known aizen was immortal and the captains would not have planned to protect ichigo until he could land a proper hit on the actual aizen. There would have been no reason for yamamoto to go suicidal if he knew aizen could become immortal at any minute.

8.- Huge unsubstantiated gamble which only actually materialized because of the sheer amount of luck coincidences which you mentioned in point 3.

9.- The whole thing was merely ichigo's interpretation of what went on and to a great extent it is a very limited. Still, the point remains that there is a huge probability that aizen ended up being the one wishing to be normal thus the orb's reaction at that time. Urahara didn't deny anything either.

10.- Of course it is a good assassination attempt.... against normal enemies. Just not against the immortal who urahara knew would survive exploding from the inside out. The whole thing about urahara blatantly stating that he knew aizen would become immortal is very relevant here. Even in the most optimistic scenario it means urahara tried that attack and the wrist thing just to get the kido that sealed him in. And it still didn't work. Although technically just attacking from the back became a pointless trick against aizen the second ichigo failed at it (http://www.mangareader.net/94-44833-8/bleach/chapter-388.html). Another remarkably lucky shot for urahara, perhaps if ichigo hadn't tried this he wouldn't have even landed that hit on aizen.

The notion that urahara planned for anything in the war is absurd, that is all I am saying. Urahara is the gadget guy, not the planning guy.

The Newbie.
September 18, 2012, 05:56 PM
1.- Urahara knew aizen would fuse with the orb and developed the kido accordingly. Obviously telling them after getting their asses handed to them would have been useless however that is a crucial bit of information for before the fight

It says "I knew that , if you fused with the Hogyoku, you would be impossible to kill." It is an entirely different meaning from what you say that "Urahara knew Aizen would fuse with the Hogyoku". Commas are there for a reason.


2.- They weren't the final measures, they were the only things which urahara came up with. Both failed. And neither showcases a real strategist, this is just using shiny new gadgets. Ultimately incalculable amounts of luck defeated aizen.

Now you are not paying attention. Urahara first shot Aizen from behind, then used a trick as a distraction, used two kidos to keep Aizen from moving, shot the sealing kido, and placed the exploding wrist things. He did all these strategically, and waited for Aizen to get distracted to start. He later fought in synchronization with Isshin and Yoruichi, using perfectly timed attacks or techniques to get a clean shot at Aizen. He later played dead until he got the chance to jump in. Urahara did more than use fancy gadgets against Aizen. And this is all from his fight with Aizen. Against Ichigo he has displayed battle prowess, against Yammi he's shown how he can identify and understand attacks, negating them easily rather than exerting himself blocking or evading. During Ichigo's fight with Kilge he was waiting behind cover analyzing the enemy's fighting style, and after he understood the mechanics of Blutz, he jumped in the right moment for an easy finishing blow. This is all battle strategy, and that one time he used a toy barely stands out in this list.


3.- It was pure coincidental, that was my entire point. The very things which brought about aizen's defeat were beyond the scope of what urahara could have ever planned for. Not much of urahara being a strategist as far as aizens defeat goes on this way.

Urahara relied heavily on luck by the end, but he knew Ichigo had potential to beat Aizen. It wasn't just a random guess. He left it all to the flip of a coin because he was sure the chance of Ichigo perfecting his power was 50/50. But the way he planted the kido and has influenced Ichigo can be also part of his strategy, as he knew Ichigo wasn't normal.


4.- Its an overwhelming gamble. Ichigo took over 1 month merely to actually learn his vizard powers (1 month to get to 11 seconds with the mask and the rest during his fight with grimmjow). Urahara counting on ichigo learning his true power in the time it would have taken aizen to make the key is beyond absurd. The whole thing was pure luck.

It took him 1 month to learn how to use his mask for 11 seconds, but after he got serious against Grimmjow, he could hold it for minutes. The difference is that back then it was a custom training program by the Vizards, now he had the potential to improve shortly. And nobody said Urahara expected Ichigo to improve in only a few minutes, but there is also that thing that Aizen was waiting for Ichigo to perfect his power in the first place, so he wouldn't go anywhere for a while, if anything he would leave the Royal door open. Yes, it was mostly luck that Ichigo had the Dangai for 3 months to train, but there was also a reason for Urahara to believe there was still a chance.


5.- I was responding at the notion that urahara had an idea of what he was doing here. For urahara to have planned for this he would have also had to account for random unpredictable things to turn out exactly as he planned. We do agree on this point though, your second point pretty much mentions a big enough chunk of what happened was coincidental.

But Urahara didn't have to plan it all how it went. As far as we know, Aizen allowed Ichigo to achieve his potential, so there was a reason to believe something, anything, could happen that would give Ichigo the chance to transcend. It could have been that Ichigo saw his dead friends and went berserk Super Hollow Mode or something.


6.- And still urahara knew the orb would make aizen immortal which is completely incoherent with the notion that it would make him half hollow only. I daresay urahara had a pretty good idea of what the orb did by the time he met aizen. Or we can assume this is not the sort of thing kubo normally does and it is a huge plot hole.

7.- He certainly didn't. Otherwise ichigo would have known aizen was immortal and the captains would not have planned to protect ichigo until he could land a proper hit on the actual aizen. There would have been no reason for yamamoto to go suicidal if he knew aizen could become immortal at any minute.

Aizen wasn't immortal yet. And Urahara did tell the captains everything he knew. Urahara wasn't sure of how the Hogyoku worked so that part about Aizen becoming immortal was just one variable. But if at the point of the Karakura battle Aizen wasn't still in control of the Hogyoku, the captains had to do their all to kill him.


8.- Huge unsubstantiated gamble which only actually materialized because of the sheer amount of luck coincidences which you mentioned in point 3.

I don't see what part of that gamble lacks substance. Aizen himself said that Ichigo was special, and an experiment. He then said that he would absorb and comprehend him. On top of that Urahara already knew about Ichigo's specialness. In fact, all the captains knew he was special, and not just because he wasn't under Kyoka Suigetsu.


9.- The whole thing was merely ichigo's interpretation of what went on and to a great extent it is a very limited. Still, the point remains that there is a huge probability that aizen ended up being the one wishing to be normal thus the orb's reaction at that time. Urahara didn't deny anything either.

The Hogyoku doesn't grant wishes, it understands and realizes the deepest parts of the mind. Aizen was so strong he could manipulate the Hogyoku at will. What Ichigo said was just an interpretation, and Urahara had to reason to agree or disagree, because Ichigo simply noticed how Aizen had isolated himself far beyond salvation by his own power. Urahara didn't depend on this how you say, it was merely an observation on Ichigo's part.

There's also that part where it was half and half, that after being hit with by the FGT, the Hogyoku simply gave up on Aizen, because there was no way he could ever reach that level.


10.- Of course it is a good assassination attempt.... against normal enemies. Just not against the immortal who urahara knew would survive exploding from the inside out. The whole thing about urahara blatantly stating that he knew aizen would become immortal is very relevant here.

He was still in the process of transforming. And it contradicts what you said about Urahara not being good for the Assassination Squad. It was a good shot that didn't work because Aizen was starting to become immortal.


Even in the most optimistic scenario it means urahara tried that attack and the wrist thing just to get the kido that sealed him in.

Urahara said that the wrist thing didn't work after Aizen survived. At this point Aizen was just reaching the next level. Urahara stood there observing the explosion, and warned the rest that it hadn't worked when the explosion stopped.


Although technically just attacking from the back became a pointless trick against aizen the second ichigo failed at it. Another remarkably lucky shot for urahara, perhaps if ichigo hadn't tried this he wouldn't have even landed that hit on aizen.

Aizen placed the shield behind his neck, not behind his right lung. http://www.mangareader.net/94-44833-11/bleach/chapter-388.html


The notion that urahara planned for anything in the war is absurd, that is all I am saying. Urahara is the gadget guy, not the planning guy.

I never said he planned for everything, I said he plans in advance and it fails, he adapts accordingly and is also capable of creating new strategies on the go. I already gave examples for this.

tousendrinksbleach
September 18, 2012, 06:26 PM
Nope
There's two things to take into account about that whole Aizen vs Ichigo :

1- Ichigo, when Aizen was in his cocoon state, he was the only who could feel his reiatsu, it means one thing, he have potential, but he wasn't at Aizen's level yet
2- Ichigo was lucky, if Aizen didn't destroy the Kototsu, in no way Ishin could've used the Kaikyo Kotei to stop the flow of the Koryu and give Ichigo time to use Jinzen and acquire the FGT

While Urahara may have taken into account the first point, in no way he'd have taken the second point into account, because in no way he could've predicted it, he isn't a fortune teller

It was luck (and Aizen's cockiness too) that caused his defeat in the end

why did he put the seal then? waiting for who to weaken aizen? if things turned out not into his favor, isshin would have went FGT anyway

kkck
September 18, 2012, 09:49 PM
why did he put the seal then? waiting for who to weaken aizen? if things turned out not into his favor, isshin would have went FGT anyway

The most reasonable scenario is that he thought the seal would have worked when applied. Otherwise he can just be thankful at the sheer amount of stuff that went wrong for aizen.

I don't think ishin's FGT would have worked as well as ichigo's. Ichigo could feel aizen's power before his dangai training and before he even used FGT he had his transcendental power. Taking this in consideration I doubt ishin's potential FGT would have achieved the same if anything at all.

0Xellos
September 19, 2012, 08:45 AM
I think Urahara did what he could, and it wasn't a little. He didn't know to what extent Aizen had fused with Hougyoku (and if he already became immortal; Urahara only knew that Aizen would become immortal at some point if not stopped), so he tried to make stuff that'd help defeat Aizen. The combo with Isshin and Yoruichi as attack force, the heavy armor for Yoruichi, the seals on Aizen's wrists and finally the super-ultimate seal. Too bad Aizen was already at a whole different level, and the seals didn't have capacity to seal all of his reiatsu (like when you have a charged point, when the charge gets beyond a certain level, it discharges to its surroundings). At the very least, when Ichi cut him in half, the seal started working, because Aizen was weakened.
So, what Urahara did, was make sure Aizen won't get up again, if he's defeated. (There's a plot hole here: how come the seal didn't work after Gin made a big hole in Aizen's chest?)

Bajan4eva1
September 19, 2012, 11:07 AM
I think Urahara did what he could, and it wasn't a little. He didn't know to what extent Aizen had fused with Hougyoku (and if he already became immortal; Urahara only knew that Aizen would become immortal at some point if not stopped), so he tried to make stuff that'd help defeat Aizen. The combo with Isshin and Yoruichi as attack force, the heavy armor for Yoruichi, the seals on Aizen's wrists and finally the super-ultimate seal. Too bad Aizen was already at a whole different level, and the seals didn't have capacity to seal all of his reiatsu (like when you have a charged point, when the charge gets beyond a certain level, it discharges to its surroundings). At the very least, when Ichi cut him in half, the seal started working, because Aizen was weakened.
So, what Urahara did, was make sure Aizen won't get up again, if he's defeated. (There's a plot hole here: how come the seal didn't work after Gin made a big hole in Aizen's chest?)

With Gin I was thinking more like the seal didn't work at that point because the Hogyoku still considered Aizen it's master and wouldn't allow the seal to activate. When Ichigo finally transcended Aizen, the Hogyoku pretty much said screw you, I refuse to follow someone not as strong as I thought.

NoOneInParticular
September 19, 2012, 12:40 PM
I think Urahara's seal was intended to be used before the Hogyoku initiated any major changes in Aizen, but he began transforming before Urahara (and Aizen himself) could have predicted. Then Urahara had no choice but to use it anyway in the hopes that it would work anyway, or at least if Aizen was ever weakened.

But anyway, Urahara wouldn't seem to be one of the VRs 5 war potentials, given that Quilge paid him no attention even after watching him open the Garganta for Ichigo, which is surprising because I would have expected Urahara to be a person of interest. I do think, though, that Mayuri might be one, since he should have more information on Quincies than anyone after all the experiments he carried out in the past. From the VR's point of view, he's the most likely person to have devised some tool to use against them.

I'm not sure why some people think Aizen might be a special war potential to be honest. He's locked up for one thing, and more importantly he's been entirely stripped of his power. He's no more than a Plus right now, really. But I wonder if it's possible that the Hogyoku itself might be of interest to the VR. We don't know exactly how much they know about Aizen's activities, so as far as they know the Hogyoku exists to remove the barrier between Hollow and Shinigami, in which case it's of no use to them. But if they've somehow learned it's true capabilities they may be after it.

WPs seem to be people who can threaten the VR. Ichigo's bankai can't be stolen, Kenpachi can kill Stern Ritter without having a bankai, etc. We don't see very much of the Kido Corps, but we know that they have their own captain and vice-captain. Unlike the Gotei 13, the Kido Corps main strength derives from their spells, rather than zanpakutos and bankais. Presumably their captain is strong enough to stand up to other captains without even drawing their sword, so they can likely handle Stern Ritter without relying on bankai.

My guesses for WPs are: Ichigo, Kenpachi, Yamamoto, Mayuri (that one's a maybe), and whoever the current Kido Corps Captain happens to be.

0Xellos
September 19, 2012, 03:42 PM
With Gin I was thinking more like the seal didn't work at that point because the Hogyoku still considered Aizen it's master and wouldn't allow the seal to activate. When Ichigo finally transcended Aizen, the Hogyoku pretty much said screw you, I refuse to follow someone not as strong as I thought.

But Hougyoku still regenerated Aizen, and kept him immortal, so I doubt that was the case.
The only explanation I see possible is that Ichi actually became badass beyond badass and the cut through was much more serious than the hole in the chest.

Cyrs
September 19, 2012, 08:19 PM
It's funny, this has gotten pretty off-topic about Aizen and Urahara. I guess I'll mention my thoughts on it: It seems like Aizen was only defeated by Ichigo's and Urahara's combined efforts. The Kido Urahara used didn't do squat until Ichigo slapped Aizen around. Only then did the Hogyoku decide that Aizen wasn't hot stuff anymore, so that let Urahara's kido spell work. And if the spell wasn't there, Ichigo would've been done for since he lost his powers.

Anyway...

The "War Potentials" aren't necessarily the strongest people, just those who the Quincy are looking out for. Juha seems to have tons of data on everyone, so it wouldn't surprise me if he knew Aizen was still around and planned to use him, so for that reason, Aizen might make the list.

Or maybe the other 3 on the list are the Vaizard captains, because their bankai might be hard to steal.

About Urahara, no one's saying he's not strong. But Kirge saw both Ichigo and Urahara, yet only remarked that Ichigo was on their list.

Kuchikido
September 20, 2012, 02:59 AM
I think Aizen is not a WP, as Kirge talked about him as if he was dead, I suppose if Juuha knew that he is alive, he would have told the SternRitters, that

"By the way guys, Aizen is not dead, expect him if you blow up that prison somewhere..."

I beleive that war potentials are:

1. Ichigo - nuff said
2. Yama-jii - read the recent chapters
3. Yoruichi - no zanpakuto around, still fast and boss, could take out some of the SR
4. Kenpachi - no Bankai, constant shikai, killed a couple of guys
5. Kurosaki Isshin - his zanpakuto must be similar to Zangetsu, so it is possible, that his bankai cannot be stolen either, and also he showed that he is very powerful with only his shikai

If we assume that the war potentials are the guys who must be avoided or seperated if possible, then this, above, is my list.

If we think about them as the first guys that must be killed, then I would say:

1. Ichigo
2. Kenpachi - does not talk much, kills too much, was a problem
3. Mayuri - knows too much, could be a problem. Give him time and he could turn the tables and win this war. Also he was familiar with the Juuha and Yamamoto story.
4. Unohana - heals too much, is a problem
5. Yamamoto - burns too much, is a problem, also as CC has a significant role in battles; he wins, moral raises, he loses, all hope is gone...

0Xellos
September 20, 2012, 07:06 AM
I don't think CC is a war potential. He's more like a war overlord.
In the list of people who must be killed to win the war, it's:
1. Yama - he's strong and he's the boss
2. Yama - better kill him again to make sure

OK, nevermind the 2 confirmed potentials, here are some thoughts on other 3:
Urahara - I'd say he's a war potential, but Kirge didn't really care about him... and I doubt bad memory's the reason... so he doesn't seem to be one.
Mayuri - If he's a potential, then Urahara is even more so. Between the 2, I'd choose Urahara (he seems to be more of a scientific genius), which doesn't leave place for Mayuri.
Yama - look above
Aizen - likely, hougyoku'd badass
Unohana - This is tough. Everyone's afraid of mama-captain, plus I fear imagining what her bankai can do... but we really don't have enough info to say anything.
Other captains, Vizards - noooo, they don't have crazy abilities that'd give reasons for them to be WP.
Isshin - OK, he is strong, and his power has many similarities to Ichi (and it's also possible he went FGT before, since he knows about it), but let me just ask - what is it that'd make him take part in the war, when he refuses to go to SS? This is about war potentials, and I doubt Isshin would take part in the war before it moves to Karakura town and all shinigami are beaten unconscious so they don't see him. It's also possible the quincies don't know about him, since he doesn't really act out.
Yoruichi - Hm, could be. She's unusual enough and strong without a bankai.
Chad, Orihime - they don't seem to play major roles in this arc, even if their powers are very unusual and if used correctly (read: if they were strong enough) could help SS win the war. No.
Uryuu - It's been hinted at that he's strong, has an interesting relationship with both SS and VR, is the only quincy outside of VR that could fight with Ichi's side (Ryuken seems to not care even more than Isshin, and hates shinigami more than Uryuu). He's quite a good choice for a WP.

Zehahaha
September 22, 2012, 07:25 AM
With Gin I was thinking more like the seal didn't work at that point because the Hogyoku still considered Aizen it's master and wouldn't allow the seal to activate. When Ichigo finally transcended Aizen, the Hogyoku pretty much said screw you, I refuse to follow someone not as strong as I thought.

The theory that Urahara said about Hokgyoku not recognizing Aizen as its master is nonsensical at best, Urahara is a genius, but he never fully understood the Hogyoku
If what Urahara said is true, then why the hell did the Hogyoku regenerated him ? If it doesn't recognize him as its master, it should've let Aizen die and that's it, but no it didn't at all

The " logical " explanation (and that fits the events too) is Ichigo's explanation after all

darkprince0521
September 24, 2012, 07:00 AM
The War potentials in my opinion:

1. the biggest War potential i can think of is Ishida (and what he is going to do with whom). it is greatly suspicious that Kubo would exclude Ishida without a reason.
2. Ichigo and Yamamoto. Yamammoto because of his overwhelming power and Ichigo because of being Protagonist.
3. The unknown person at Hueco Mundo.
4. Mayuri? he certainly has a history with Quincy.
5. Kenpachi, may be it's time for him to unlock Bankai.
6. Aizen, he is so cool that he should appear once again.

kkck
September 24, 2012, 10:50 AM
The War potentials in my opinion:

1. the biggest War potential i can think of is Ishida (and what he is going to do with whom). it is greatly suspicious that Kubo would exclude Ishida without a reason.
2. Ichigo and Yamamoto. Yamammoto because of his overwhelming power and Ichigo because of being Protagonist.
3. The unknown person at Hueco Mundo.
4. Mayuri? he certainly has a history with Quincy.
5. Kenpachi, may be it's time for him to unlock Bankai.
6. Aizen, he is so cool that he should appear once again.

I don't think ishida would be seen as a war potential. I don't see how that would make sense. In his current form he is rather on the weak side and even if he did get stronger it would be unlikely that he is a threat to the king.

The issue with the person in HM is that he is "unknown". If he is a war potential and kirge got killed that way it would have been for a decent bit of gross negligence on vandereich's part. I don't think VR knew about whoever that person is. If they don't know then he can't be a war potential.

Mayuri seems to have history with an entirely different branch of quincy. So far it does seem like the quincy from 200 years ago were different from the quincy from 1000 years ago.

tousendrinksbleach
September 24, 2012, 05:15 PM
Mayuri should be a war potentiel IMO , the guy might create something that counters quincy main tricks (especially stealing bankaiz) .
Urahara is not a war potentiel because the king either has a lot of data that he knows urahara will not interfere (exept helping ichigo power up , and ichigo is included already in w.p.) or he really doesnt know much about the guy.

darkprince0521
September 25, 2012, 01:59 AM
I don't think ishida would be seen as a war potential. I don't see how that would make sense. In his current form he is rather on the weak side and even if he did get stronger it would be unlikely that he is a threat to the king.

because it is shonen manga; that just might happen. and i didn't mean Ishida will become important through his fighting. no, that's not it. rather, i think Ishida is a part of another plan, a bigger plan maybe. we will have to wait.


The issue with the person in HM is that he is "unknown". If he is a war potential and kirge got killed that way it would have been for a decent bit of gross negligence on vandereich's part. I don't think VR knew about whoever that person is. If they don't know then he can't be a war potential.

again, in my opinion, that person might just become a big deal. my reason for this assumption isn't much, but you get the idea.


Mayuri seems to have history with an entirely different branch of quincy. So far it does seem like the quincy from 200 years ago were different from the quincy from 1000 years ago.

the way he talked to Yamamoto about letting Juha go 1000 years ago makes me thinking otherwise.

kkck
September 25, 2012, 09:50 AM
because it is shonen manga; that just might happen. and i didn't mean Ishida will become important through his fighting. no, that's not it. rather, i think Ishida is a part of another plan, a bigger plan maybe. we will have to wait.



again, in my opinion, that person might just become a big deal. my reason for this assumption isn't much, but you get the idea.



the way he talked to Yamamoto about letting Juha go 1000 years ago makes me thinking otherwise.

So far by what I gather the war potentials are people who vandereich believes to be greater threats than others involved in the war. Based on how kirge reacted it did not quite seem like they view ishida as an enemy so far. Kirge was even expecting him to be strong and seemed disappointed in that he wasn't. Overall the attitude kirge would not fit at all with finding out one of the greatest threats to you is not actually a threat.

You missed my point completely. My point was that only people who vandereich knows about can be war potentials. That person can be a bigger deal than the second coming however if vandereich does not actually know about his existence and powers then he can't be a war potential. It would be plain illogical for him to be qualified as a war potential if vandereich did not actually know about him.

Its precisely the way he talked to yamamoto that seems weird. We know for a fact that there have been 2 quincy wars so far, the one 1000 years ago and 200 years ago. Does this mean that juhabach was involved in the one 200 years ago? Yamamoto and juha hadn't seen each other in 1000 years, not 200. There has been no mention of any vandereich, specialy juha, having participated in the past war and the very techniques which they use are completely different. Yamamoto was familiar with blutz based on his current fight however it does not seem like ishida's brand of quincy are familiar with the technique. More so, the letz stilt concept was dropped 200 years ago and yet shinigami thought quincy still used the form. I would think the more logical explanation is that the quincy from 200 years ago were not vandereich at all (vandereich does not reside in the human world, ishida's brand of quincy did).

0Xellos
September 25, 2012, 10:55 AM
Mayuri should be a war potentiel IMO , the guy might create something that counters quincy main tricks (especially stealing bankaiz) .
Urahara is not a war potentiel because the king either has a lot of data that he knows urahara will not interfere (exept helping ichigo power up , and ichigo is included already in w.p.) or he really doesnt know much about the guy.

They should have plenty of info on Urahara, if they§ve been spying on SS since Bach's 20th birthday. But I don't think Mayuri has more potential to be a war potential than Urahara.

darkprince0521
September 25, 2012, 11:45 PM
So far by what I gather the war potentials are people who vandereich believes to be greater threats than others involved in the war. Based on how kirge reacted it did not quite seem like they view ishida as an enemy so far. Kirge was even expecting him to be strong and seemed disappointed in that he wasn't. Overall the attitude kirge would not fit at all with finding out one of the greatest threats to you is not actually a threat.

You missed my point completely. My point was that only people who vandereich knows about can be war potentials. That person can be a bigger deal than the second coming however if vandereich does not actually know about his existence and powers then he can't be a war potential. It would be plain illogical for him to be qualified as a war potential if vandereich did not actually know about him.

Its precisely the way he talked to yamamoto that seems weird. We know for a fact that there have been 2 quincy wars so far, the one 1000 years ago and 200 years ago. Does this mean that juhabach was involved in the one 200 years ago? Yamamoto and juha hadn't seen each other in 1000 years, not 200. There has been no mention of any vandereich, specialy juha, having participated in the past war and the very techniques which they use are completely different. Yamamoto was familiar with blutz based on his current fight however it does not seem like ishida's brand of quincy are familiar with the technique. More so, the letz stilt concept was dropped 200 years ago and yet shinigami thought quincy still used the form. I would think the more logical explanation is that the quincy from 200 years ago were not vandereich at all (vandereich does not reside in the human world, ishida's brand of quincy did).

it looks like misunderstanding on the term "War Potential" from my part.

anyway, by Ishida being important, i meant on favor of Juha, and also i didn't mean Ishida as individual, rather part of another group.

Nieuwsgierig
September 27, 2012, 06:14 AM
If Yamamoto was right and the war potentials are the five people of whom they can't steal the Bankai; they should be at least Ichigo, Yamamoto, Kenpachi. That keeps Urahara, Aizen and Unohana as candidates for that last two places. All three of them have very much elusive bankai's.

Bajan4eva1
September 27, 2012, 01:05 PM
If Yamamoto was right and the war potentials are the five people of whom they can't steal the Bankai; they should be at least Ichigo, Yamamoto, Kenpachi. That keeps Urahara, Aizen and Unohana as candidates for that last two places. All three of them have very much elusive bankai's.

Good point. If Yama-ji was right it could be argued that Aizen would be a war potential. No one had known what his real shikai was for years so i doubt anyone has ever seen his bankai. Only thing is is he's locked up (not sure if the VR think he's dead either) so would they still consider him a threat?

Unohana can be a candidate but I'm betting more on Shunsui only because of that fight with Starrk where Ukitake told him not to show his bankai with everyone around (or something like that). I wouldn't be surprised if Ukitake is about the only person to have ever seen it.

As for Urahara i still doubt he's one. I think if he was Quilge would have sent that in the message about Ichigo being in HM or at least referenced it.

Nieuwsgierig
September 27, 2012, 01:28 PM
Good point. If Yama-ji was right it could be argued that Aizen would be a war potential. No one had known what his real shikai was for years so i doubt anyone has ever seen his bankai. Only thing is is he's locked up (not sure if the VR think he's dead either) so would they still consider him a threat?
Indeed. I'm doubting him being one because the result of the War, but if they know the truth, he would be the ideal candidate. It would require the Sternritter to know Aizen was lying though.



Unohana can be a candidate but I'm betting more on Shunsui only because of that fight with Starrk where Ukitake told him not to show his bankai with everyone around (or something like that). I wouldn't be surprised if Ukitake is about the only person to have ever seen it.But Shunsui is still a captain, meaning at one moment he did probably show his bankai. He became a captain after the founding of the academy. Didn't that happen around a 1000 years ago, around the time Buckbeard was in Soul Society for his showdown with Yamaoto. Unohana has the advantage of being in an older age category. She could have become a captain based on the sole virtue of being there when it was founded. I'm thinking Shunsui's Bankai just might be a game that doesn't work quite well with a lot of public.


As for Urahara i still doubt he's one. I think if he was Quilge would have sent that in the message about Ichigo being in HM or at least referenced it.Urahara being a candidate does open up a possibility that Buckbeard is the mysterious figure, which is the reason why Tite would have chosen to show the entire Yamamoto fight instead of switching back.

g0dzax
September 28, 2012, 01:52 PM
I'm guessing Urahara would also be a candidate ( remembering what he told to Chad that his Bankai is not suited for training ),but also I would seriously consider Yoruichi one of the 5 war potentials,mainly because she doesn't have a Zanpakutou,has VERY strong hand-to-hand combat and kido and she can also use those anti-hierror pieces that Urahara made and she also has Shunko; if she has a Shikai and Bankai,she'd get insanely strong,thus why I consider her one of the 5 war potentials.

0Xellos
September 28, 2012, 05:28 PM
Urahara being a candidate does open up a possibility that Buckbeard is the mysterious figure, which is the reason why Tite would have chosen to show the entire Yamamoto fight instead of switching back.

Whoa, that'd be interesting. JB-man was told to look down on his subordinates, so he could've cut down Kirge (seeing as he has no further use), and that'd really mean Urahara has a sword on his neck (literally and figuratively).

jaleco
September 30, 2012, 02:34 AM
I heard that according to Tite Kubo...

1. Captain Unohana WILL BE FIGHTING AT THE FRONT for the first time in this arc! And the full extent of her zanpakuto's abilities WILL BE EXPLAINED IN MOST EXPLICIT MANNER!

2. Tite said he doesn't know when it will be, but Captain Kyoraku WILL SHOW HIS BANKAI!

3. Tite hopes to return Grimmjow later, as well as considering Aizen's return.

Now for the remaining 3 war potentials...

3. Uryu Ishida; I am thinking that because of the conversation took place between Kirge and Ichigo...

Kirge: "you mean to say Ishida Uryu's Heilig Pfeil is weaker than mine? Weird... IT SHOULDN'T BE. Now I have even more new reports to submit to his majesty..." (Uryu should've been stronger than he actually is but something must've happened to him in the past that made him weaker) Besides, being a Quincy, Ishida could be a big help.

4. could be ANYONE's guess... But what do you think of Tessai Tsukabishi (former captain of Kido corps and a Kido master, even more so than Hinamori)? This could be his chance to display how destructively powerful kidos can be.

5. I am split between Yamamoto (in recent chapters, I was like, WOW... JUST WOW...) and Aizen.

0Xellos
September 30, 2012, 03:29 AM
4. could be ANYONE's guess... But what do you think of Tessai Tsukabishi (former captain of Kido corps and a Kido master, even more so than Hinamori)? This could be his chance to display how destructively powerful kidos can be.


You meant to say: even more so than Urahara :D
Hinamori can use kido well, but there are plenty much greater experts.

Zehahaha
September 30, 2012, 09:21 AM
Whoa, that'd be interesting. JB-man was told to look down on his subordinates, so he could've cut down Kirge (seeing as he has no further use), and that'd really mean Urahara has a sword on his neck (literally and figuratively).

Except that the sword that was pointed out towards Urahara is a Katana unlike JB's sword... So it's 100% a Zanpakuto, now it is certainly an Arrancar, but who ? No idea (although I believe it is Grimmjow)

Cyrs
September 30, 2012, 07:55 PM
I wonder if the Quincy actually considered Yama to be a War Potential? They didn't seem concerned about facing him, nor about stealing his Bankai, nor did they mention anything about him when they were talking about Kenpachi. If Yama was one, they probably would've mentioned it... Yama was right there.

Yama is damn strong, but I'm not sure that's what makes the list. It looks like they underestimated him.

BrunoGF
October 02, 2012, 07:38 AM
So, until now he have confirmed:


Ichigo
Kenpachi
Aizen


Assuming the CC is the 4th war potential, the only one who can fill the 5th position - IMO - is Isshin. Any other thoughts?

NoOneInParticular
October 02, 2012, 08:20 AM
So Aizen was on after all. Even though he's powerless, I suppose it makes sense, given that the Hogyku is fused with him. On top of that, his knowledge about Soul Society, the Soul King, the Royal Guard (probably) and who knows what else would make him a valuable asset to the Vandenreich. Actually, it's probably because he no longer has Kyoka Suigetse that Juhabach would consider him useful rather than a threat. I doubt he'd want someone with a hypnotising tool hanging around his palace.

tousendrinksbleach
October 02, 2012, 11:02 AM
And i shall come back tomorrow because i doubt i'm allowed to discuss this today.

As for old data, i'm going to go with ishida and either urahara or mayuuri

Yama is not a potential IMO , simply because a potential is a potential...if you see what I mean . Fighting yama was inevitable, he does not need to be a special potential because he was the last SS boss for the quincies and the war potentials were more like people that the SR would deal with differently


Another thought : Juha aknowledges ichigo as the strongest war potential , this is why he had to wait for him to be out of the picutre before invading SS. This was reinforced with this chapter since juha seem to know about what was going on. I think he fears ichigo more than anyone else and would rather avoid fighting him at any cost

FetherMan
October 02, 2012, 02:36 PM
Ichigo will evolve into some god-like warrior and defeat Juha. And his birth may have something to do with his limitless potential that has attracted him to Juha in the first place. I would like to learn more about the Quincy and their abilities.

Bajan4eva1
October 02, 2012, 03:21 PM
Well well well. I got the email on my phone, saw BrunoGF's post, and realized the chapter was out early. While I doubted Aizen was a war potential i guess it makes sense. Genius level intellect who tricked all of SS, has a object who can make all your wishes come true fused to him, and almost got to the King's realm.

Anyway, I doubt Yama-ji is a war potential but if his power is too much for anyone except Bach to contain then the same may go for Ichigo.

1) Ichigo (too powerful)
2) Kenpachi (no bankai, yet so powerful)
3) Aizen
4) Isshin (like father like son, plus he pushed Aizen back with his finger LOL)
5) Ryuuken ("The Last Quincy"...I wonder if the VR know how to return a Quincy's powers once lost)

jaleco
October 02, 2012, 06:39 PM
1. Ichigo - no bankai to be stolen
2. Kenpachi - nothing to be stolen. He is freakshily strong without anyway.
3. Aizen - a possible wild card? Remember, Juha wanted to scout Aizen. But Aizen, the very concept of being someone's subordinate is an alien to him, refused.
4. not yet revealed. I am hoping it is one of Ishida family member
5. not yet revealed. I am now torn between Orihime and Tessai Tsukabishi (Kido master)

0Xellos
October 05, 2012, 04:03 PM
I guess this chapter confirmed Aizen. Why would Bach go as far as to go to the prison and scout Aizen, unless he was a SWP?

kkck
October 05, 2012, 04:27 PM
He did refer to aizen as a special war potential however I found the context strange. He went to invite aizen to his army while as far as the other war potentials he always was rather hellbent on eithe avoiding them or destroying them. Perhaps there is a group of special war potentials who are enemies and a group of special war potentials who are potential allies?

BrunoGF
October 05, 2012, 07:13 PM
Potentials are...potentials. Regardless of which side they will take on the battlefield, their actions can change the events on this war.

Aizen may be sealed but he still have the Hougyoku. Heck, even if he hasn't - he is one of the most powerful characters, even without the illusion abilities of his zanpakutou. He went to Hueco Mundo alone (pretty much) and conquered it even before Juha Bach and his army did it. He took out a large number of captains on a blink of an eye with his sword sealed.

The fact that Juha Bach tried to convince Aizen to join him means only one thing - his goals are for long-term. The quincy leader doesn't only want to destroy the Gotei 13, he's aiming to dismantle the fountations of Soul Society.

DarkBankai
October 10, 2012, 12:32 PM
Well It looks like we have THREE war potentials identified.

Ichigo, confirmed by quincy
Aizen, confirmed by bach himself while talking to CC.
Kenpachi. confirmed by Y the yourself quincy when kenpachi got his ass handed to him by Bachs impersonator.

Who the remaining two are is open for debate.

I am thinking
Ishda- the reason I suspect this is because when the quincy found out that ishda was weaker- he seemed surprised like he expected ishda to be way stronger. perhaps he is, there is likely a technique that ishdas father didnt like and was not taught to ishda by his grandfather. so he is weaker but more developed in the "true" quincy sense. Thats my opinion. I think when we get into the back story and ichigo and gang go after the quincies then it will get very interesting and ishda could end up being uber strong.

the other war potential
Im not sure-
I think it might be one of these three.

Urahara - since aizen was one, and urahara is also smart and older and has had some contact or knowledge of squad zero and spirit king.
Orihime - since her power was referenced by bach while killing CC
Chad - I just want to see a full suit for chad where he gets to be a badass like everyone else.

---------- Post added at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------


He did refer to aizen as a special war potential however I found the context strange. He went to invite aizen to his army while as far as the other war potentials he always was rather hellbent on eithe avoiding them or destroying them. Perhaps there is a group of special war potentials who are enemies and a group of special war potentials who are potential allies?

I am suspecting that he visited Aizen not just to recruit but also to probe for info on the spirit king.

Jorge D. Dragon
October 11, 2012, 10:04 PM
Ishida Uryu is one of the best possible choices. He was said to have a great potential (even though I don't buy this asspull) by Kirge.

I also agree on Inoue's possibility. Her ability is really broken.

I don't buy Chad and Urahara. Chad is pretty weak and useless the entire manga and Urahara... well he is also out of his league if we compare him to Ichigo, Aizen or Kenpachi in terms of power and the intellect doesn't seem to be the trait by which they choose. Aizen seems to be choosed by his power as Shinigami and Hougioku.

lawlett-kun
October 11, 2012, 10:11 PM
Aizen
Ichigo
Ishida
maybe the guy who pointed sword at urahara
Orihime

Jorge D. Dragon
October 12, 2012, 05:04 AM
lawlett-kun
Why are you excluding Ken-chan?:) He was already confirmed to be among 5 War Potentials along with Ichi and Aizen. We need to find only two of them.;)

Impossibility
October 12, 2012, 08:04 AM
I'm confused as to why Kenpachi was considered a SWP. Obviously his lack of Bankai, while still maintaining captain-level capabilities, was a factor. But even so, he seemed to be dealt with easily enough. There is the question of whether or not he was defeated by Bach, or by one of his subordinates. But even if Bach was necessary to defeat him, he obviously didn't cause any real trouble for him.

devstauk
October 12, 2012, 09:08 AM
I'm confused as to why Kenpachi was considered a SWP. Obviously his lack of Bankai, while still maintaining captain-level capabilities, was a factor. But even so, he seemed to be dealt with easily enough. There is the question of whether or not he was defeated by Bach, or by one of his subordinates. But even if Bach was necessary to defeat him, he obviously didn't cause any real trouble for him.

It was stated that it may have been a mistake to count him as a SWP but needless to say its not the last we shall see of kenny, i have a feeling he will learn more about his Zan and become a bigger powerhouse, i mean there is that theory that his lieutenant may actually be his Zan's Spirit. But that is a mighty big theory

DarkBankai
October 12, 2012, 09:11 AM
I'm confused as to why Kenpachi was considered a SWP. Obviously his lack of Bankai, while still maintaining captain-level capabilities, was a factor. But even so, he seemed to be dealt with easily enough. There is the question of whether or not he was defeated by Bach, or by one of his subordinates. But even if Bach was necessary to defeat him, he obviously didn't cause any real trouble for him.

I think<--- I think- --> that Kenpachi is considered a war potential because he has yet to obtain a bankai. I know hes says oh I dont have one, but he does. He just has not manifested or communed with his zanpaktou, Mostly because it goes against his nature, which to me suggests that his zanpaktou prolly has a similar outlook - in which case it will take something monumental for him to get motivated enough to communicate with his zanpaktou,

I think now that CC is dead and kenpachi had his ass handed to him, he might get a bit humbled, communicate with his zanpaktou, get his bankai, and reforge his serrated funky zanpaktou in the process to something that is meaner, and more menicning.

I think the quincy know that it is possible for him to get a bankai, and since the bankai is vastly more potent than the shikai, if he did get one, I think he might end up being one of the strongest besides ichigo.

I think kenpachi can do it, the death of his mentor and CC will no doubt affect him and his zanpaktou.

IMHO- this is why kenpachi is a war potential.

---------- Post added at 10:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 AM ----------


It was stated that it may have been a mistake to count him as a SWP but needless to say its not the last we shall see of kenny, i have a feeling he will learn more about his Zan and become a bigger powerhouse, i mean there is that theory that his lieutenant may actually be his Zan's Spirit. But that is a mighty big theory

I remember reading that theroy, but its rubbish.. mostly beacuse his LT. has her own zanpaktou.
less a theory than a wild what if senario.

the rest of your post I agree, Kenpachi is definitly going to learn more about his zanpaktou after this incident.

NoOneInParticular
October 12, 2012, 09:22 AM
Kenpachi would have been one (like DarkBankai said) because he's a force of raw destruction without even having a bankai. He basically works by spewing out the power that would normally go into a bankai and focusing it all into sheer strength. But Royd (and therefore Bach) concede that he'd been overestimated. Still, he took out 3 Stern Ritter.

Interesting that Yama wasn't on the list. I suppose it makes sense, though. As far as Bach was concerned, killing Yamamoto was a given. His death was an absolutely necessity. So we have Aizen, Ichigo, and Kenpachi confirmed. I would think Orihime must be one, but then I don't know if Bach is too concerned with healing his wounded subordinates. One of the Ishidas could be on the list. Urahara's a possibility. Hmmm...

Duniak
October 12, 2012, 10:11 AM
Interesting that Yama wasn't on the list. I suppose it makes sense, though. As far as Bach was concerned, killing Yamamoto was a given. His death was an absolutely necessity. So we have Aizen, Ichigo, and Kenpachi confirmed. I would think Orihime must be one, but then I don't know if Bach is too concerned with healing his wounded subordinates. One of the Ishidas could be on the list. Urahara's a possibility. Hmmm...

Personally I don't think Orihime is a war potential. He referred to her as "that girl". When talking about SWP he talks with their full name.

Zatono
October 12, 2012, 10:38 AM
I must have missed something. Why are people saying Kenpachi was a War Potential? Because he was called #1 in strength? So what?

Zehahaha
October 12, 2012, 10:54 AM
I must have missed something. Why are people saying Kenpachi was a War Potential? Because he was called #1 in strength? So what?

The most correct translation is " Notable Threat number 1 " (http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/35620)

It is the same term used to describe Ichigo too (http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/34525)

Although, Molokidan in his translation refered to the war potentials as " Special weapon " (http://mangahelpers.com/t/molokidan/releases/34270)

And Badkarma's translation referred to the war potentials as " Special asset " (http://mangahelpers.com/t/badkarma/releases/34307)

Which is the same term used to describe Kenpachi too (http://mangahelpers.com/t/badkarma/releases/35539)

Mangastream's translation doesn't make sense then, Kenpachi is indeed one of the war potentials, which are : Ichigo, Aizen, Kenpachi so far

juUnior
October 12, 2012, 05:04 PM
Ishida Uryu <at least it seems it wasn't about Ryuuken>; I mean: Quilge Opie said sth about Uryu when Ichigo mentioned Ishida's name, and Opie asked if he means "Uryu" <it was a moment when Ichigo said that arrows of "Ishida" are weaker than his, and he replied its impossible or sth like that after a little conversation> Or I would like Uryu to be one of those 'special asset' or whatever >3

Zehahaha
October 12, 2012, 05:43 PM
Ishida Uryu <at least it seems it wasn't about Ryuuken>; I mean: Quilge Opie said sth about Uryu when Ichigo mentioned Ishida's name, and Opie asked if he means "Uryu" <it was a moment when Ichigo said that arrows of "Ishida" are weaker than his, and he replied its impossible or sth like that after a little conversation> Or I would like Uryu to be one of those 'special asset' or whatever >3

After Quilge's talk about Letzt Stil and Vollstandig, I found it strange that Ishida Soken didn't accept the improvement made by the Vandenreich... If we consider that Vandenreich's method is the " modern one " and Ishida Soken's teachings as the " traditional one ", there must be some secret about it, it could be actually a lot more stronger than even Vollstandig... Also Uryuu didn't have enough time to train with his grandfather either, unlike Ryuuken, who seems to have learned everything there's to learn about Quincy's powers, and he did comment on Uryuu's powers too and his powers, saying that Uryuu doesn't have enough talent for that (or maybe he was being cynical there, dunno)

kkck
October 12, 2012, 06:11 PM
To be honest I kinda question whether volstandig actually provides the user with more power than lets stilt. Does that make sense given what we have seen so far? Ishida was at most at VC level when he fought mayuri and the form allowed him to completely outclass him. Quilge is supposedly stronger than ishida is currently and even went as far as easily defeating 3 VC level fraccion and with his volstandig he had a remarkably hard time against ichigo. Ichigo could easily be stronger than mayuri and in all likelihood actually is however the sheer amount of power quilge displayed still seems inferior to ishida's.

I think the difference lies in the reiatsu part. Volstandig does not emit reiatsu while lets stilt does. I recall at some point it was mentioned that the lets stilt was a power beyond human limits. Perhaps the lets stilt absorbs more energy than what the user can handle which means a bunch of it is released as reiatsu while the volstandig merely absorbs as much power as the user can handle, it does not go beyond the limit. That would result in volstandig being less frail in the sense that it could be used as the user sees fit while the lets stit has the whole losing power issue. I think this idea would be consistent with what we have seen so far.

The issue would be as to why souken would reject the form. With my theory the form would have theoretically less overall power but wouldn't the fact that it does not rid a quincy of his powers make up for that? Perhaps there is a sanity issue here. Maybe the volstandig has the issue that it causes the user to lose a bit of his sanity with each use and perhaps make them more battle prone? It would perhaps why the quincy, in spite of not technically being evil but rather they are fighting for what they believe to be right, seem to be kinda insane. quilge killed his own subordinates, the rest of the vandereich actually seem overly cruel at large... It would explain why the peace loving souken would prefer the alternative which does not cause him to go insane.

Cyrs
October 13, 2012, 03:19 AM
I wonder if the Quincy actually considered Yama to be a War Potential? They didn't seem concerned about facing him, nor about stealing his Bankai, nor did they mention anything about him when they were talking about Kenpachi. If Yama was one, they probably would've mentioned it... Yama was right there.

Just quoting myself so I can gloat hahaha. I picked Aizen too, I'm so proud of myself! :x3

Not sure about the rest, beyond what's already been said in this thread a million times already. But for some reason, I'm thinking there's a pretty good chance Ishida's one of them, even though he's a Quincy.

juUnior
October 13, 2012, 10:13 AM
After Quilge's talk about Letzt Stil and Vollstandig, I found it strange that Ishida Soken didn't accept the improvement made by the Vandenreich... If we consider that Vandenreich's method is the " modern one " and Ishida Soken's teachings as the " traditional one ", there must be some secret about it, it could be actually a lot more stronger than even Vollstandig... Also Uryuu didn't have enough time to train with his grandfather either, unlike Ryuuken, who seems to have learned everything there's to learn about Quincy's powers, and he did comment on Uryuu's powers too and his powers, saying that Uryuu doesn't have enough talent for that (or maybe he was being cynical there, dunno)
About differences about teachings of 'new' and 'old' I won't dwell because I didn't think about those ideas. I think it would be cool to see Ishida in a manga and maybe some stuff will be explained <even if he wouldn't turn out to be one of 5 war potentials, he still is a Quincy and going by the fact that enemies right now are Quincies it would be cool to have some explanations - maybe father and son of Ishida talk?! xD>
About the last point: even without the recent revelations I thought he was cynical towards his son, and I don't mind that <Uryu is so sympathetic towards his enemies sometimes that it makes me sick - and I think Ryuuken was addressing that point of Uryu's character> My take on that.


The issue would be as to why souken would reject the form. With my theory the form would have theoretically less overall power but wouldn't the fact that it does not rid a quincy of his powers make up for that? Perhaps there is a sanity issue here. Maybe the volstandig has the issue that it causes the user to lose a bit of his sanity with each use and perhaps make them more battle prone? It would perhaps why the quincy, in spite of not technically being evil but rather they are fighting for what they believe to be right, seem to be kinda insane. quilge killed his own subordinates, the rest of the vandereich actually seem overly cruel at large... It would explain why the peace loving souken would prefer the alternative which does not cause him to go insane.
Seems a cool idea with the idea of making Quincy more 'brutal/full of themselves' while bestowed with such power. It really would suit Souken rejecting that.

Again about Ishida Uryu: due to Quilge saying what he said I do believe that he may be one of 5 war potentials <even if he is a Quincy> Maybe there is sth special about him <or I would like it to be :p>? <3

Raziel42
October 22, 2012, 04:37 PM
I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this so far, but has anyone considered Mayuri?

Granted, he's not the most powerful, but he's just about the most cunning person in the Gotei 13. He seems to have enough knowledge of the situation and it's history to try and lecture Yamamoto.

Not to mention that his Bankai can't be stolen... we've seen that how many times?

AND something I just thought of. He's responsible for the dissection and study of HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of Quincy. I'm sure he's got some sort of idea of how their abilities work, and a decent method to counteract them, especially after Uryu destroyed him before. I figure he's been planning this, probably for a very long time.

I don't know, I may be wrong here, but he seems like one of the most likely to tip the scales in favour of Soul Society, the most likely to have a contingency plan.


EDIT

After doing a bit more research, I'm starting to wonder, if my theory above is correct, it could mean that the bodies he found in Szayelaporro's lab were Quicies, right? I mean, it's only speculation at this point, but if that's the case, say a few Quincies were caught by the Arrancar, and their bodies were found by Mayuri there, it would make for a rather interesting moment when he finally shows up.

In any case, I'm rather excited now, can't wait for tomorrow's chapter.

eefrit
October 22, 2012, 07:22 PM
I really hope that Uryu is one of the last two Potentials. It's possible that both him and his father are the last two, but it'll most likely just be Uryu. Isshin comes to mind, but he is out of the game half of the time so I doubt they aren't to worried about him. Orihime could also be one considering her powers, but that would just be a repeating her role in the Huenco Mundo arc. Chad is forever useless so it sure as shoot ain't him. Maybe it'll be a new character.

gcreech
October 22, 2012, 07:32 PM
Maybe the last 2 are Tsukishima and Ginjo...THE ULTIMATE TROLL!

kkck
October 22, 2012, 08:17 PM
To be honest I question whether aizen was among the war potentials in which kenpachi and ichigo were. The context seems different from the others. Aizen was not a threat to juhabach basically. Even if aizen was strong enough to go up against him there is the issue that aizen was captured and could not do a thing to the point where juhabach simply left him beneath the rubble of the 1st division barracks. More so, as far as ichigo and kenpachi goes neither was asked to join vandereich. To the contrary, ichigo was ordered to be killed on sight and kenpachi was about to get killed by royd. Rather than Aizen "being" a war potential I get the impression there is a strong possibility that aizen was basically invited to be one, if that makes any sense. So there could still be 6 actual war potentials.

Taking in consideration yamamoto was not a war potential it seems strength alone is not actually nearly enough to be one. In that light I think urahara is indeed a war potential and the quincy failed to notice him being in HM due to them being distracted by ichigo. I don't think urahara would hold a candle in a fight against aizen, yamamoto, juhabach or even win against the older captains however his intellect is to be feared and he does not seem afraid to fight dirty as a former member of the second division and master of all fancy gadgets.

gcreech
October 23, 2012, 12:40 AM
@kkck I think Urahara is stronger than you think; though nobody knows because he has only fought a transformed Aizen at this point, and we all know Aizen canNOT by any means be used to gauge the strength of any other character...though yes I agree that his intellect alone is very dangerous, and with his and Mayuri's brain they may come up with a counter to the medallion.

With that said, yes the context may have been off like mentioned, but Bach put emphasis again on the fact that there are only 5. So I do believe there are only 2 remaining, and I don't believe Bach expects Uryuu and his dad Ryuuken to betray their own kind (even tho they most likely will aid Ichigo and his friends at some point in the war) So i think we can safely eliminate them as possibilities for now.

Right now, I'd say none of the Vizards are in the war potentials; I also think Chad and Inoue are a bit of a stretch for now, at least until they get stronger. My best attempt at a guess for now is all 5 potentials are most likely shinigami. Maybe Isshin, maybe Urahara, maybe Yourichi, (though most likely not) Maybe the Kido master himself Tessai..maybe Kon (kidding) but seriously I mean who really knows what the connection is.

---------- Post added at 12:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 AM ----------

Let me add one thing last minute, don't forget that Aizen is a shinigami; and he is extremely unpredictable..what I'm saying is that most likely Soul Society will NOT attempt to recruit him, nor is Aizen likely to offer his services..but we can't exactly rule out the possibility that Aizen "MAY" be forced to temporarily ally with them.

To me it looks like these are the 5 people that Kubo is telling us to pay attention to, and expect big things from in the future. It may also be that these are the 5 characters that WILL ally together and bring down the Vandenreich. Or maybe not. But the implication is there, where there is even the slightest implication, there is a possibility.

zimbardo
October 24, 2012, 03:29 AM
I posted this before, in the new chapter discussion - but feel it may be better suited here. Thoughts?
(hidden due to being unsure how long to wait after chapter release before open discussion)

These recent spoilers have reinforced an idea that I have been holding for some time.
What if the war potentials are not potentials because of their possible danger to the quincy, but because they could potentially be turned to the side of the quincy?

It fits for all the currently confirmed potentials, and also helps explain why Yamamoto wasn't one.

Yamamoto - not a war potential as his honor wouldn't allow him to switch sides. Johann Bach stated previously that Yamamoto wasn't a war potential due to his change of character. Perhaps, had he been willing to use anything to help him achieve his goals/whatever, he would have been willing to switch to the quincy side in what they were planning to do next? I do not believe that revenge on SS is their true aim in this arc.

Aizen - Would potentially change sides when he knew what the Quincy were actually after. Perhaps it is overthrowing the soul king (although, then, Yamamoto would never join them... so perhaps not).

Kenpachi - Perhaps Johann Bach thought that Kenpachi only cared about fighting strong opponents, and so would change side if he offered them to Kenpachi? What could be stronger than the 0 squad or the Soul King (though perhaps he isn't a being at all?)?

Ichigo - Has always followed what he believes to be Justice/what is right. Perhaps Johann Bach believed he could turn Ichigo's allegiance through fooling him into thinking something was a greater threat to his realm/friends?

I see that there is a strong chance at this not being true (Yamamoto sure ruins my theory a bit), but it is an interesting prospect to me anyway.



If the war potentials are dictated using something similar to what I have suggested, then perhaps Mayuri may be another war potential? For interesting new specimens?

Regret
October 24, 2012, 12:51 PM
That's pretty much been my stance on the matter and what I thought Bach meant here (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v53/c486/15.html). It also could explain why they're called war potentials and not just war threats since they can't avoid all these guys forever. We still don't know what tools they have at their disposal but they may have means of controlling, threatening, bargaining, or manipulating potentials who have things that can't be stolen easily. Given Mayuri's past actions I still don't know if they would want anything to do with him outside of stealing his research.

Duniak
October 24, 2012, 02:14 PM
That's pretty much been my stance on the matter and what I thought Bach meant here (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v53/c486/15.html). It also could explain why they're called war potentials and not just war threats .

I think someone said that accurate translation was "Notable THREAT".

zimbardo
October 25, 2012, 03:32 AM
I think someone said that accurate translation was "Notable THREAT".

In that case then I am probably wrong... Though, in that case, if Yamamoto isn't on the list - why should Kenpachi be? Even with a change of attitude, Yamamoto is still significantly more of a threat than Kenpachi...

Regret
October 25, 2012, 10:22 AM
I think someone said that accurate translation was "Notable THREAT".
Also what does that mean for Aizen? Bach was offering him a chance to become a "notable threat" if he served underneath him? From the way Bach left him in prison until he changed his mind it seemed like he wasn't much of a threat to anybody at least during the expected time span of the war. If that really was the title then it seems a little off so far unless threats to the SS are also a part of the list which seems to warrant more criteria otherwise all of the Royal Guard members seems like they would be notable threats.

DarkBankai
October 25, 2012, 10:38 AM
I believe JB said that both he and Aizen have an Eternal time before them.
Suggesting that JB plans to destroy SS and the human world will leave them in a place where time does not exist or at least flows differently.
I think it is interesting that JB wanted Aizen to join him, and I find it strange that Aizen refused. tho in fairness we only have JB account of that conversation,

Aizen is trapped in that prison, without the power of the Hogyoku to augment his own power except for now supposedly being immortal. I dont see why JB would even bother with Aizen. unless Aizen had something JB needed. Perhaps JB wants people that he cannot kill in an instant around to keep him company.


Or MAYBE)_)_ oh shit idea!!-
Perhaps JB went to Aizen to recruit him and was now effected by the HG. meaning, Ichigos Use of Blut Vene, might have been activated within ichigo via HG after JB went to see aizen. Perhaps JB really wants the shinigami and the quincy to be one. and since aizen is bound and sealed, it remotely acted upon the other main person that the HG has influenced in this manga, ichigo.

---ehh....maybe not.. but it sure is fun to play the what if game.! ^_^

Duniak
October 25, 2012, 11:52 AM
Also what does that mean for Aizen? Bach was offering him a chance to become a "notable threat" if he served underneath him? From the way Bach left him in prison until he changed his mind it seemed like he wasn't much of a threat to anybody at least during the expected time span of the war. If that really was the title then it seems a little off so far unless threats to the SS are also a part of the list which seems to warrant more criteria otherwise all of the Royal Guard members seems like they would be notable threats.

We still don't know 2 other Notable Threats. Maybe these are known characters like Ishida and Isshin, or maybe they're RG.

If someone can mop the floor with your whole army, you would prefer him to help you, or to fight you, if he somehow breaks out of prison? Aizen is still dangerous, he is immortal. Notable Threats are people who are stronger than others and can alone stand against Sternritters. Kenpachi was one but he was HUGELY overestimated, as Juha stated. I think Notable Threats are people who are on Dangai Ichigo's level or can become one. (Ishida?)

mrsticky005
October 26, 2012, 12:36 AM
Is this 5 potentials something from the manga?

Ok. I see. Chapter 490. I forgot about that.

Saint Markus
October 27, 2012, 12:54 AM
One of the war potentials that hasn't been revealed yet, is probably a great threat to Juha Bach. Most likely, a new character Kubo will introduce in the long run.

Kay3795
October 27, 2012, 05:59 PM
We still don't know 2 other Notable Threats. Maybe these are known characters like Ishida and Isshin, or maybe they're RG.

If someone can mop the floor with your whole army, you would prefer him to help you, or to fight you, if he somehow breaks out of prison? Aizen is still dangerous, he is immortal. Notable Threats are people who are stronger than others and can alone stand against Sternritters. Kenpachi was one but he was HUGELY overestimated, as Juha stated. I think Notable Threats are people who are on Dangai Ichigo's level or can become one. (Ishida?)Dangai Ichigo's level? Hahaha. I love how people are suddenly spamming Ultimate Ichigo like he's common/ordinary/regular.

Duniak
October 27, 2012, 07:32 PM
Dangai Ichigo's level? Hahaha. I love how people are suddenly spamming Ultimate Ichigo like he's common/ordinary/regular.

Ya know, to fight Juha who is stronger than Yama's bankai and actually HAS Yama's bankai now you need a powerful being. One of more powerful captains- Byakuya died likes he was nothing. For all we know Kenpachi was weak and was overestimated, Aizen is WP and is immortal (that makes him... strong, I guess?), Ichigo achieved level beyond Yama and is shown to have Quincy abilities, so he has even MORE room to evolve. 2 spots in WP list left. Ichigo WILL and MUST achieve level BEYOND Dangai Ichigo lvl and BEYOND his power during using FGT. That means we need some strong characters, allies and enemies, Dangai level at least for it to make freakin' sense. It would be boring if he killed everyone without breaking a sweat. If Dangai Ichigo was stronger than EVERYONE else, than Squad 0, Yama's death, senior captain's bankais wouldn't be important. Shinji didn't reveal his bankai yet and has mask, you want to tell me he can't be near Dangai Ichigo level if he wore his mask and used bankai? It would make him actually... near Dangai Ichigo, who gained complete control of his Hollow and Zanpakuto, just like Complete Vaizards. Kyoraku is said to be able to take down Aizen with his bankai (Kubo in one of interviews) so who knows how hax his bankai (and Shinji's, and Ukitake's) might be. Their Shikais are strong as normal bankai's. Shinji's SHIKAI reverts everything. And what would his bankai do? Ukitake's shikai is perfect defense and great offense at the same time. He can deflect anything. And his bankai? Kyoraku's shikai makes games that you have to play. Power comes second in battle with Kyoraku. His bankai was said to be bothersome and it can't be used with people around, as Ukitake said. Even in terms of raw power Kyoraku is like... first or second? Don't know about Unohana's abilities. But her Shikai is just a healing flying shit. Her bankai will heal all her injuries I guess. Or another hax ability that would do trouble to SR.

0Xellos
October 28, 2012, 05:39 AM
How do you know Juha is stronger than Yama's bankai? Yama was slashed by Bach without having even guarded against the attack, and in shikai. If he was using ZT West, what would happen to that slash? I leave that to everyone's imagination.

Duniak
October 28, 2012, 07:19 AM
How do you know Juha is stronger than Yama's bankai? Yama was slashed by Bach without having even guarded against the attack, and in shikai. If he was using ZT West, what would happen to that slash? I leave that to everyone's imagination.

In Shikai, while Juha wasn't using Vollstandig. He didn't even lift a finger in Shikai. He was outclassed in speed and strength. You really think his bankai would KILL Juha? And we can see Juha has Zanpakuto or something zanpakuto-ish. If he had his own ability/bankai+Vollstandig he would be stronger than Yama's bankai, for sure.

Kay3795
October 29, 2012, 10:40 AM
Ya know, to fight Juha who is stronger than Yama's bankai and actually HAS Yama's bankai now you need a powerful being. One of more powerful captains- Byakuya died likes he was nothing. For all we know Kenpachi was weak and was overestimated, Aizen is WP and is immortal (that makes him... strong, I guess?), Ichigo achieved level beyond Yama and is shown to have Quincy abilities, so he has even MORE room to evolve. 2 spots in WP list left. Ichigo WILL and MUST achieve level BEYOND Dangai Ichigo lvl and BEYOND his power during using FGT. That means we need some strong characters, allies and enemies, Dangai level at least for it to make freakin' sense. It would be boring if he killed everyone without breaking a sweat. If Dangai Ichigo was stronger than EVERYONE else, than Squad 0, Yama's death, senior captain's bankais wouldn't be important. Shinji didn't reveal his bankai yet and has mask, you want to tell me he can't be near Dangai Ichigo level if he wore his mask and used bankai? It would make him actually... near Dangai Ichigo, who gained complete control of his Hollow and Zanpakuto, just like Complete Vaizards. Kyoraku is said to be able to take down Aizen with his bankai (Kubo in one of interviews) so who knows how hax his bankai (and Shinji's, and Ukitake's) might be. Their Shikais are strong as normal bankai's. Shinji's SHIKAI reverts everything. And what would his bankai do? Ukitake's shikai is perfect defense and great offense at the same time. He can deflect anything. And his bankai? Kyoraku's shikai makes games that you have to play. Power comes second in battle with Kyoraku. His bankai was said to be bothersome and it can't be used with people around, as Ukitake said. Even in terms of raw power Kyoraku is like... first or second? Don't know about Unohana's abilities. But her Shikai is just a healing flying shit. Her bankai will heal all her injuries I guess. Or another hax ability that would do trouble to SR.

And I love how people are suddenly showing their alleged superiority by being complete idiots.You are assuming A LOT of things you have no proof of backing. Bach defeated a shikai Yama that has exhausted his power SO WHAT?
http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/510/12

What does that have anything to do with FGT Ichigo?
Aizen started becoming Yama's superior the moment he undergo his first transfiguration with the hogyoku & he could have easily defeated Yama at full power yet after undergoing his 2nd(& 3rd) transfiguration, it was mocked by Ichigo. Before Ichigo even began to use his FGT,

He outright played with Aizen's devastrating strikes http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57111-15/bleach/chapter-418.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57111-16/bleach/chapter-418.html

Slapped Hado 90 which is able to disort time & space when fueled with his new found power http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57111-19/bleach/chapter-418.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57111-20/bleach/chapter-418.html

A simple Ken'a'tsu from his sword is able to complete vaporized mountains leaving nothing. http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57111-10/bleach/chapter-418.html
A KEN'A'TSU OF ALL THINGS.

Aizen(hogyoku) realising he was no match for Ichigo was forced into another transfiguration.
He did a tiny concentrated beam http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-13/bleach/chapter-419.html
Capable of this level of destruction http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-14/bleach/chapter-419.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-15/bleach/chapter-419.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-16/bleach/chapter-419.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-17/bleach/chapter-419.html
and Ichigo didn't even care do dodge, block or anything. He just stood there and took it like nothing.

It is funny how Ichigo could have complete negated the beams damage simply by releashing reiatsu but he didn't. He just took it.

We then move on to here http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-18/bleach/chapter-419.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-19/bleach/chapter-419.html
Aizen after brutally smashing Ichigo's body wanted to finish Ichigo off with multiple beams (forming rings around Ichigo).

Ichigo at this point was outright annoyed & insulted by Aizen's silly attempts to take him out therefore he easily destroyed those rings of beams sorrounding him with a swing http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-20/bleach/chapter-419.html
This ony proves that without the regenerative & transfigurative properties of the hogyoku, Aizen would be doomed without Ichigo ever using the FGT.

Ichigo finally used FGT to competely annihilate everything. http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-21/bleach/chapter-419.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57474-19/bleach/chapter-420.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57474-20/bleach/chapter-420.html
AND YOU SPEAK OF THIS FORM'S POWER AS THOUGH IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN EASILY BE ACHIEVED? Even by chatacters like Shinji?(who was Aizen's inferior at base?) and you call me an idiot because I think that's totally bogus? pfft

We don't have anything to quantify where Ichigo's FGT or his ultimate bankai form stands in the food chain but we know it's at the very top of the food chain.

Duniak
October 29, 2012, 12:08 PM
AND YOU SPEAK OF THIS FORM'S POWER AS THOUGH IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN EASILY BE ACHIEVED? Even by chatacters like Shinji?(who was Aizen's inferior at base?) and you call me an idiot because I think that's totally bogus? pfft

We don't have anything to quantify where Ichigo's FGT or his ultimate bankai form stands in the food chain but we know it's at the very top of the food chain.

One question. What the hell does it have to do with anything? How can you say how strong is Kyoraku or Ukitake or even Shinji, when you don't know their bankai? Right, you can't. And you really think defeating Bach is matter of using FGT? No freakin' chance. He'll have to boost his power FAR beyond Dangai level. Juha was even with Yamamoto without Vollstandig I guess. When Yamaji was in shikai he was no match for Juha. And I believe Juha has something like his own bankai, then Vollstandig, and then Yamaji's bankai. That makes him... oh well, STRONGER than Dangai Ichigo. He has bankai that evaporates water from the air and from other's bodies (Kyoraku's lip). If he kept it up, it would have been disaster. Too long fighting with this bankai and everyone would die.

Notak
October 29, 2012, 12:31 PM
Wow.


Anyway, I think Ginjo would've probably been a war potential had he still been alive. The guy was a half-human half-shinigami like Ichigo, and even had some Hollow-powers in there.
I don't think his bankai could have been stolen so easily.

Or Ichigo's possible Quincy heritage is why his bankai cannot be stolen.

Kay3795
October 29, 2012, 01:39 PM
One question. What the hell does it have to do with anything? How can you say how strong is Kyoraku or Ukitake or even Shinji, when you don't know their bankai? Right, you can't. And you really think defeating Bach is matter of using FGT? No freakin' chance. He'll have to boost his power FAR beyond Dangai level. Juha was even with Yamamoto without Vollstandig I guess. When Yamaji was in shikai he was no match for Juha. And I believe Juha has something like his own bankai, then Vollstandig, and then Yamaji's bankai. That makes him... oh well, STRONGER than Dangai Ichigo. He has bankai that evaporates water from the air and from other's bodies (Kyoraku's lip). If he kept it up, it would have been disaster. Too long fighting with this bankai and everyone would die.You are repeating yourself, REPEATING YOURSELF. I don't know how strong those two will be in their bankai but I know they will pale in comparison to Yama's power.
Since you delight in repeating a post you have no proof off, I won't indulge you by putting effort into creating a post to counter yours. I will also repeat myself.

"You are assuming A LOT of things you have no proof of backing. Bach defeated a shikai Yama that has exhausted his power SO WHAT?
http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/510/12

What does that have anything to do with FGT Ichigo?
Aizen started becoming Yama's superior the moment he undergo his first transfiguration with the hogyoku & he could have easily defeated Yama at full power yet after undergoing his 2nd(& 3rd) transfiguration, it was mocked by Ichigo. Before Ichigo even began to use his FGT,

He outright played with Aizen's devastrating strikes http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57111-1...apter-418.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57111-1...apter-418.html

Slapped Hado 90 which is able to disort time & space when fueled with his new found power http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57111-1...apter-418.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57111-2...apter-418.html

A simple Ken'a'tsu from his sword is able to complete vaporized mountains leaving nothing. http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57111-1...apter-418.html
A KEN'A'TSU OF ALL THINGS.

Aizen(hogyoku) realising he was no match for Ichigo was forced into another transfiguration.
He did a tiny concentrated beam http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-1...apter-419.html
Capable of this level of destruction http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-1...apter-419.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-1...apter-419.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-1...apter-419.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-1...apter-419.html
and Ichigo didn't even care do dodge, block or anything. He just stood there and took it like nothing.

It is funny how Ichigo could have complete negated the beams damage simply by releashing reiatsu but he didn't. He just took it.

We then move on to here http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-1...apter-419.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-1...apter-419.html
Aizen after brutally smashing Ichigo's body wanted to finish Ichigo off with multiple beams (forming rings around Ichigo).

Ichigo at this point was outright annoyed & insulted by Aizen's silly attempts to take him out therefore he easily destroyed those rings of beams sorrounding him with a swing http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-2...apter-419.html
This ony proves that without the regenerative & transfigurative properties of the hogyoku, Aizen would be doomed without Ichigo ever using the FGT.

Ichigo finally used FGT to competely annihilate everything. http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57322-2...apter-419.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57474-1...apter-420.html http://www.mangapanda.com/94-57474-2...apter-420.html
AND YOU SPEAK OF THIS FORM'S POWER AS THOUGH IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN EASILY BE ACHIEVED? Even by chatacters like Shinji?(who was Aizen's inferior at base?) and you call me an idiot because I think that's totally bogus? pfft

We don't have anything to quantify where Ichigo's FGT or his ultimate bankai form stands in the food chain but we know it's at the very top of the food chain. "

We know FGT is a tech that brings Ichigo to his full potential but that power takes everything out of him, even his power. Now you randomly claim Juha is "STRONGER than Dangai Ichigo" out of nowhere just because he has Yama's bankai. Yeah that's bogus.

you also assume Bach (a quincy) has his own bankai?. How much are you gonna assume things you have no proof of backing?

For all we know this guy may not even be the final villian and may be taken out of the story in a few chapters.

Duniak
October 29, 2012, 02:17 PM
you also assume Bach (a quincy) has his own bankai?. How much are you gonna assume things you have no proof of backing?

For all we know this guy may not even be the final villian and may be taken out of the story in a few chapters.

Yup, Juha has Zanpakuto, lives like over 1000 years and you say he is normal Quincy, which would make him normal human with high spiritual awareness and reishi control.

Jorge D. Dragon
October 29, 2012, 02:46 PM
Well the sword he had didn't actually look like Zanpaktou...
And about his longtevity... It seems that those Sternenritters aren't normal humans. Their powers allow them to not only gain a longtevity, but also a damn verssion of high-speed regeneration. Remember, when Kirge was in Vollstandig fighting Allon his neck was broken and he managed to put it back quite easily, when normal human or even Shinigami would have been dead in such situation.:)
So obviously they aren't humans no matter how e look at it.:)

Kay3795
October 29, 2012, 02:58 PM
Yup, Juha has Zanpakuto, lives like over 1000 years and you say he is normal Quincy, which would make him normal human with high spiritual awareness and reishi control.We don't know what made Bach live for over 1000 years. Perhaps quincies have a way of living long (which shoudn't be a suprise considering the freakish experimentations they involve themselves in). Ryuuken is also a quincy who knows Isshin very well(he even knew when his powers returned), he probably is older than he looks so should we assume he has a Zanpakuto too?
Yama seem to be suprised that the quincies can bankai. He fought (fake) Bach but he never questioned once why he didn't releash his Zanpakuto. If he had a Zanpakuto of his own how does this statement make sense? http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/508/11

Jorge D. Dragon
October 29, 2012, 03:20 PM
Well, it seemed that his sword was the same as Kirge had. It was another one of Quincy's tools. At least until we are told otherwise.:)

Darjaille
October 29, 2012, 04:04 PM
I hope you can keep the heated discussion civil ^^

----

Anyway, IMO the war potentials are just certain persons who could be dangerous to VR, atm I don't think it's anything else if Kenpachi is one. Yama was not, because Bach/VR was sure that he'll be dealt with.
Ichigo IS very strong, his bankai can not be captured, and supposedly he's an awesome super special hybrid... Kenpachi is THAT dangerous and his power can't be limited by stealing his bankai like they can with other strong individuals. Aizen.. is Aizen :p
Then I'd guess Ishida... maybe both Ishidas. I think Ryuuken definitely isn't a part of VR, and he must be a complete monster, no bankai to steal too... and they do think highly of Uryuu too, but that might not be it. Other than that... I don't think they have a reason to fear Inoue, and Opie didn't say anything about her when she fought him (tried) in HM, so Inoue not. Nothing about Urahara too, so that leaves, well very very likely Isshin. That's my take on it anyway.

Duniak
October 29, 2012, 04:14 PM
We don't know what made Bach live for over 1000 years. Perhaps quincies have a way of living long (which shoudn't be a suprise considering the freakish experimentations they involve themselves in). Ryuuken is also a quincy who knows Isshin very well(he even knew when his powers returned), he probably is older than he looks so should we assume he has a Zanpakuto too?
Yama seem to be suprised that the quincies can bankai. He fought (fake) Bach but he never questioned once why he didn't releash his Zanpakuto. If he had a Zanpakuto of his own how does this statement make sense? http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/508/11

If we knew what Juha is capable of from the start it'd be boring. Not mentioning the fact, that that sword was FAKE, like the man wielding it.

Kay3795
October 29, 2012, 05:45 PM
If we knew what Juha is capable of from the start it'd be boring. Not mentioning the fact, that that sword was FAKE, like the man wielding it.Not the point. The point is that Yama who fought Bach 1000 years ago never thought it was strange that he didn't use his Zanpakuto.
The other point is that quincies somehow have a way of experimenting with their mortal bodies and that possibly gives them the ability of longevity.

I agree that if we knew what Bach is capable of it would be boring but the thing is we don't know what Hogyoku Aizen, FGT/Ultimate(especially) Ichigo are capable off either. We cannot quantify at all where these two stand. For all we know we may never see FGT again (considering the fact that it takes away all Ichigo's powers).

So all you are doing so far is assuming where Bach would be at in the food chain. Him defeating a wornout shikai Yama is hardly a feat to get excited about.

FaustXIII
October 29, 2012, 10:43 PM
If Kubo is trolling it would be

Ichigo, Orihime, Chad, Uryu, Rukia


XD

Jorge D. Dragon
October 29, 2012, 10:49 PM
Well, not Rukia and Chad for obvious reasons.:) They are and seems that always would be useless characters on a powerscale.:)
Orihime has a broken ability, but no matter how we look at it, she can't be a real opponent to mostly anybody as she is damn weak in terms of fighting power.
About Uryu.:) Let's see what he would be able to perform after training and then it would be possible to discuss if he is one of the War Potentials, cause now he is too weak for being one.:)

Mr. Arashi
October 30, 2012, 08:36 AM
The War Potentials are the ones who can be more possibilities to be recruited by VandenReich. Ichigo must be trained by his white father, Aizen was asked to be part of the conboy and Kenpachi has an attitude who you can say, this man wants fights, it doesn't matter where he can obtain it.

NoOneInParticular
October 31, 2012, 05:58 AM
I wonder if Harribel is one of the War Potentials. Despite her somewhat shoddy performance in Fake Karakura, she is an exceptionally powerful being in the scheme of things. Stronger than any Quincy who's not a Stern Ritter, and maybe even stronger than some of those, since Bach went so far as to fight her personally. He made sure to capture her, rather than kill her, and we've already seen that the Vandenreich are capable of turning Arrancar into some kind of Quincy hybrid. As the most powerful known Hollow or Arrancar, the VR could have deemed her worth bringing over to their side.

Jorge D. Dragon
October 31, 2012, 06:20 AM
Well, I can see Chad and Orihime becoming some sort of Potentials only if they get Shinigami powers from someone. Then they will have a possibility to become considerably stronger and more relevant to the story as right now they are just useless in any fight against Quincy, because even combined as they are now Chad and Orihime can't do anything against average Quincy from Vandereich.

XXGenesis
November 06, 2012, 01:41 AM
These War Potentials are obviously dangerous individuals that have to be dealt with one way or another. But i'm starting to guess that they can also be characters the VR want to try to recruit to their side.?? Ichigo, Aizen both have been mentioned in dailouge to try and turn coat, Ichigo by force Aizen by choice....I believe Ryuken or Isshin maybe just one of them or both.

Notak
November 06, 2012, 03:21 AM
I'm guessing the last two are Ryuuken and Urahara. Urahara's intellect is pretty dangerous, I'm sure atleast Bach knows Urahara helped stop Aizen. He was watching Fake Karakura after all.

Also don't forget Mayuri. He collected Szayel Apollo's research data, and Szayel could negate a Bankai. So he's likely to be a threat to the bankai-medallions. (And he's generally smart)

Ryuuken, well he's a Quincy so he knows how to counter the enemy and probably has intel on them, and he doesn't have a Bankai for them to steal.

Bajan4eva1
November 06, 2012, 01:49 PM
After the latest chapters I'm not thinking that the reason Ichigo's a war potential is just because his bankai can't be stolen; I'm thinking it may be deeper than that. I mean if we look at Yama-ji's, it was just too powerful for anyone to contain other than Bach. Then why didn't Bach take Ichigo's when they fought...I'm thinking (hoping) it's because he's a Quincy and certain Quincy abilities (the medalion being one of them) won't work on Quincies. Naturally since Quincies don't normally have bankais, thus Ichigo is a rarity (or special according to Aizen LOL). So my new list is:

Confirmed:
Ichigo - Hopefully for multiple reasons. i.e. hopefully because his Bankai can't be stolen because he's a Quincy and they could turn him being his mother was a Quincy
Kenpachi - Just that strong and doesn't even have a bankai
Aizen - Well he and Ichigo evolved to a different dimension (plane) at one point so naturally he should be one. Plus he's powerful as Gin once analyzed and his intellect is up there with Urahara's

My picks:
Ryuuken - The man bequeathed the title of "The Last Quincy." Crazy strong and as Notak said probably has intel on them. Lets not forget he returned Quincy powers to his son after he lost them. Not sure how many Quincies would know that kind of technique.
Mayuri - As much as i hate this guy he has to have a ton of knowledge from experimenting on Quincies and even if you steal his bankai it'll do you no good as Syzael (think thats how you spell it) figured out. On top of all that he is intelligent.

Runner Up: If Mayuri isn't one or is a traitor (sorry a theory I have) then in his place would be:
Orihime: Her ability. I mean she was mentioned by Bach and her ability was so valuable Aizen kidnapped her.
Unohana: Only because i'm hyped about how much she's been hyped. She's probably a beast even with her bankai stolen.

What do you guys think?

mattiaildivino
November 06, 2012, 02:42 PM
I told you! aizen was a war potential too! but I can't really make up my mind for the other 3... neither kenpachi nor yamamoto belong to them...maybe urahara,but then why did the SR not mention him when he came to HM? was it because they were unaware of his presence?

Duniak
November 06, 2012, 02:52 PM
neither kenpachi nor yamamoto belong to them..

Kenpachi is confirmed for like... 2 months?

Zehahaha
November 06, 2012, 03:08 PM
Mayuri - As much as i hate this guy he has to have a ton of knowledge from experimenting on Quincies and even if you steal his bankai it'll do you no good as Syzael (think thats how you spell it) figured out. On top of all that he is intelligent.



I'd put Urahara over Mayuri anytime anyday , Mayuri knows jackshit about Quincy, the guy was literally surprised about the Letzt Stil, also Urahara seems to be more intelligent than Mayuri honestly

Mayuri is only dangerous when he comes prepared, otherwise he sucks

Bajan4eva1
November 06, 2012, 03:38 PM
I'd put Urahara over Mayuri anytime anyday , Mayuri knows jackshit about Quincy, the guy was literally surprised about the Letzt Stil, also Urahara seems to be more intelligent than Mayuri honestly

Mayuri is only dangerous when he comes prepared, otherwise he sucks

Agreed :super. Definitely Urahara over Mayuri but like mattiaildivino mentioned, I'm wondering why Kirge didn't mention him as a war potential. Not much for me to go on but that's the only reason I don't think he's one.

On another note you make a good point, when i think back to Mayuri's fight with Ishida he was surprised as hell when he saw Ishida's final form so maybe he doesn't know as much about the Quincies as i think.

mattiaildivino
November 06, 2012, 05:21 PM
Kenpachi is confirmed for like... 2 months?

is that so? he was owned and juha bach just stated that he had overrated him. in another translation it was said he was one of them,but I doub tthat,as yamamoto isn't there either. you remember that juha bach gave infos on the captains? well,I think he was talking about those infos,which said he was hella strong. no wait,it wasn't even juha bach! but just that yourself guy

kkck
November 06, 2012, 05:44 PM
All the correct translations do refer to kenpachi as a war potential or to put it in another way precisely in the same way juha referred to ichigo.
http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/35620
http://mangahelpers.com/t/badkarma/releases/35539

Kenpachi being a war potential is basically an incontrovertible fact. Fake juha ultimately being disappointed in him is a different matter altogether. I am sure kenpachi will have a chance to redeem himself though.

StarkPoseidon
November 06, 2012, 08:02 PM
is that so? he was owned and juha bach just stated that he had overrated him. in another translation it was said he was one of them,but I doub tthat,as yamamoto isn't there either. you remember that juha bach gave infos on the captains? well,I think he was talking about those infos,which said he was hella strong. no wait,it wasn't even juha bach! but just that yourself guy

Kenpachi was owned coz the Juha Bach clone had Bach's power (at least 50% of it). Bach is known to be equal to or better than Yamamoto. So, Kenpachi lost to a guy who had at least 50% of Yamamoto's power. That's completely understandable. Kenpachi may be uber beast but even he can't stand up to someone who has more than half of Yama/Bach's power.

Anyways,

My pick:

Confirmed:

1. Ichigo
2. Aizen
3. Kenpachi

Other 2:

4. Isshin: We still need to hear his backstory and something tells me he used to be a very very powerful Shinigami in the past. My theory is that, in terms of power, he used to be second only to Yamamoto and that he lost all of it during either the war 1000 years ago or the recent 200 years ago Quincy extinction.

5. Urahara: I have a sneaking suspicion that he's got a seriously nasty Bankai and that he is Captain Comm. material. Not to mention, this is the guy that Aizen himself was scared of.

Jorge D. Dragon
November 07, 2012, 06:45 AM
Urahara is seriously overrated. The guy's only fit is his intelligence and it lies mostly in making some useless devices. Talking about his Shinigami powers... he showed nothing. He didn't show anything to be deemed stronger than Byakuya and no matter how you look at them neither of them is Captain Commander material.
How you can compare Urahara with Isshin, Aizen or Shunsui. Urahara couldn't even injure base Ulquiorra in Shikai, while base Isshin was at least even with base Aizen and Shunsui managed to take released Stark in Shikai, so how Urahara can be a Captain Commander material?
If War Potential are given due to power, then Urahara is nowhere near War Potentials... he is too weak to be one. And his Bankai won't change anything, because if you are weaker than any of the strong guys with your Shikai, Bankai won't change anything, especially since Quincy will steal his Bankai in the very moment he releases it.

Notak
November 07, 2012, 07:01 AM
What makes Urahara dangerous is his intellect, like Batman. Not his powers.

Impossibility
November 07, 2012, 07:07 AM
Urahara is seriously overrated. The guy's only fit is his intelligence and it lies mostly in making some useless devices. Talking about his Shinigami powers... he showed nothing. He didn't show anything to be deemed stronger than Byakuya and no matter how you look at them neither of them is Captain Commander material.
How you can compare Urahara with Isshin, Aizen or Shunsui. Urahara couldn't even injure base Ulquiorra in Shikai, while base Isshin was at least even with base Aizen and Shunsui managed to take released Stark in Shikai, so how Urahara can be a Captain Commander material?
If War Potential are given due to power, then Urahara is nowhere near War Potentials... he is too weak to be one. And his Bankai won't change anything, because if you are weaker than any of the strong guys with your Shikai, Bankai won't change anything, especially since Quincy will steal his Bankai in the very moment he releases it.

It's obviously not power alone that determines whether someone is classified as a WP. I think everyone could probably agree on that. Kenpachi's power doesn't register when compared to some of the displays put on by Ichigo and Aizen, and there are quite a few individuals who are obviously more powerful than Kenpachi and not on the list. I'm not sold on Urahara being a WP, not even close, but it's still possible; considering that we're still not aware of the factors that were used in determining each WP, or if there was just one specific characteristic of each of the five that lead to them being given that status.

Kay3795
November 07, 2012, 07:17 AM
Urahara is seriously overrated. The guy's only fit is his intelligence and it lies mostly in making some useless devices. Talking about his Shinigami powers... he showed nothing. He didn't show anything to be deemed stronger than Byakuya and no matter how you look at them neither of them is Captain Commander material.
How you can compare Urahara with Isshin, Aizen or Shunsui. Urahara couldn't even injure base Ulquiorra in Shikai, while base Isshin was at least even with base Aizen and Shunsui managed to take released Stark in Shikai, so how Urahara can be a Captain Commander material?
If War Potential are given due to power, then Urahara is nowhere near War Potentials... he is too weak to be one. And his Bankai won't change anything, because if you are weaker than any of the strong guys with your Shikai, Bankai won't change anything, especially since Quincy will steal his Bankai in the very moment he releases it.A BIG THANK YOU!! I've always been saying this yet many disagreed. Many are saying he is right behind Yama in power which I find utterly unbelievable.
I mean, this is the same guy whose attack were blocked by Ulquiorra(though strong) like it was nothing & this is also the same guy who would have probably lose an arm if he didn't protect himself with benihime's Blood Mist Shield against Ichigo's GT during training.

His intelligence makes him dangerous not his power.

Jorge D. Dragon
November 07, 2012, 07:24 AM
Well, Bleach isn't a manga about intelligence.:) It's manga about power. If a person doesn't have power to back his techs, he would utterly loose. The same Barragan's Respira. It was stated during the timeskip in some interviews that his Respira might be blown away by people with a damn strong Reiatsu like Kenpachi. So we can also assume that Aizen and Yama can do the same.;) Thus no matter how cunning nasty devices Urahara makes he won't be able to take down really strong characters like Yama, Kenpachi or Aizen or Juha Bach or Ichigo with their help.

Also, talking about intelligence. In any shounen manga if a person is a bit better in terms of intellect than a clinical idiot, he will be deemed a genious... Of course Urahara and Aizen are quite intelligent, but it doesn't prove that their intellect is really something else. It's just that most of the characters are dumb like there is no tomorrow.

devstauk
November 07, 2012, 07:41 AM
I think the WP are likely to be classed as WP because of the likely hood of them becoming VR or part of the VR's Course, either that or it has something to do with how they cant steal their bankai's.... but to be fair it could be anything but they all have one thing in common and that is the bankai thing as far as i can tell so far

Notak
November 07, 2012, 07:46 AM
Urahara could be the key to stopping the bankai-medallions, so yeah, he is a pretty big threat to Vandenreich's military strength.

devstauk
November 07, 2012, 07:55 AM
Urahara could be the key to stopping the bankai-medallions, so yeah, he is a pretty big threat to Vandenreich's military strength.

I'm not sure thats a problem for the VR anymore, the main people who they came to steal the Bankai from they got and it looks like they have no chance of getting it back either

Notak
November 07, 2012, 08:01 AM
Dunno but the Zero squad probably have bankais, and even then there are still captains that have their bankais left. Not to mention Yoruichi, Urahara, Isshin

devstauk
November 07, 2012, 08:11 AM
Dunno but the Zero squad probably have bankais, and even then there are still captains that have their bankais left. Not to mention Yoruichi, Urahara, Isshin

But think about who's bankai's they have.....

Another thing is the situation with yama's body i don't remember it being obliterated, so either the VR took him along with them or someone else picked it up

Jorge D. Dragon
November 07, 2012, 08:41 AM
Well, no matter how you look at it, I doubt that Kenpachi or Aizen would hvae work under their enemies, so I doubt War Potentials are connected to it in any way.
About the possibility of stealing Bankai... I doubt as well. Because you can't compare Ichigo and Kenpachi in this, because they are different in every way. Ken-chan just doesn't have Bankai for now, while Ichigo seems to be able to counter this Bankai stealing due to him being half-Quincy. And Aizen is sure to have Bankai... And thus it's quite possible for him to loose it the same way Yama lost it.

About Urahara being able to stop Bankai stealing... seriously, why even we need to talk about it?:) If Bach's clone (who was nowhere near real Bach in strength) was able to block Yama's Shikai with minor injuries and managed to fight to some extent against Yama's Bankai and that Bankai is the most insane thing we've seen so far in the manga (exept for Mugetsu, but it's a bit different thing), then I doubt it will be a real threat for Juha Bach anymore.
Also it seems those who lost their Bankais won't get them back. Or at least for quite a big period of time. And for those who lost them (exept for Soi Fong) they are very crucial as without them they are mostly nothing.

About Yama's body... well it was desintegrated by Bach...

It seems that Squad Zero really has to enter soon as current Gotei can't fight Sternenritter with Yama and Kenpachi and three other Captains without Bankai as well.

XXGenesis
November 08, 2012, 01:39 AM
@Jorge D.Dragon..Bleach is always better when you can read it as a whole. And It's crazy How Royd (R) who can copy ppl's memories actually Blocked Yama's Shikia with minor wounds, dodged his bankia attacks and fought agasin't his Zankia no Tachi of the South. Not to mention beat the crao outta Kenpachi off page that he may not return!! Like the dude must of been hella Strong More so thinking about the Kenpachi thing cause he did just dodge around the place until he got cut down by Yama. The Sternritters that attacked Yama too also survived his attack not to mention the Bestia's Lol.....War potentials aren't a big plot thread in my eyes however we have 3 listed so far and Yama was a reject off the list. So it's not solely based on power, and I still have a hunch that it has to do with potential allies....Or Potential individuals that can kill Sternritters pretty easily..Kenpachi killed 3! Ichigo he can't have his bankia stolen it's still evolving, too much and he's a quincy. Aizen managed to distort Bach strapped down in a chair and his shikia is Haxx'd.

Notak
November 08, 2012, 03:55 AM
Yea as far as I'm concerned, the bankais are still a threat to the SR if they can't be stolen/sealed...
It'll be interesting to see the VR use the bankais they've stolen.

mattiaildivino
November 08, 2012, 12:46 PM
But think about who's bankai's they have.....

Another thing is the situation with yama's body i don't remember it being obliterated, so either the VR took him along with them or someone else picked it up

you must be joking : http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-chapter-525-page-16.html :)

meepers4982
November 12, 2012, 07:55 AM
Urahara is seriously overrated. The guy's only fit is his intelligence and it lies mostly in making some useless devices. Talking about his Shinigami powers... he showed nothing. He didn't show anything to be deemed stronger than Byakuya and no matter how you look at them neither of them is Captain Commander material.
How you can compare Urahara with Isshin, Aizen or Shunsui. Urahara couldn't even injure base Ulquiorra in Shikai, while base Isshin was at least even with base Aizen and Shunsui managed to take released Stark in Shikai, so how Urahara can be a Captain Commander material?
If War Potential are given due to power, then Urahara is nowhere near War Potentials... he is too weak to be one. And his Bankai won't change anything, because if you are weaker than any of the strong guys with your Shikai, Bankai won't change anything, especially since Quincy will steal his Bankai in the very moment he releases it.

Urahara doesnt really make useless devices, they're very beneficial for him, its just others cant use them with the same proficiency. What makes urahara scary is that most of the time we dont know what his intentions are and his crazy intellect and cunning. Its not physical/ spiritual power(which we dont really know) that make him powerful but his use of his vast intellect, I mean he even outwitted aizen.

So for the five war potentials we have ichigo and zaraki already confirmed, the other three...hmm my guess would be ishida, and two other characters who were not in soul society at the time of the invasion.

Bajan4eva1
November 12, 2012, 10:54 AM
So for the five war potentials we have ichigo and zaraki already confirmed, the other three...hmm my guess would be ishida, and two other characters who were not in soul society at the time of the invasion.

I thought Aizen was confirmed a WP a couple chapters back? If that's the case they're only two spots left now.

Duniak
November 12, 2012, 11:32 AM
Urahara doesnt really make useless devices, they're very beneficial for him, its just others cant use them with the same proficiency. What makes urahara scary is that most of the time we dont know what his intentions are and his crazy intellect and cunning. Its not physical/ spiritual power(which we dont really know) that make him powerful but his use of his vast intellect, I mean he even outwitted aizen.


The thing with Urahara is... he can kill without using a sword. Aizen stated himself, that he would have died by Urahara's Kidos if he hadn't merged with Hogyoku. That makes him stronger than pre-Hogyoku Aizen, stronger than every other captain without his sword. xD And with Bankai... URAHARA HAS TO BE WP FFS :/

Darjaille
November 12, 2012, 12:02 PM
The thing with Urahara is... he can kill without using a sword. Aizen stated himself, that he would have died by Urahara's Kidos if he hadn't merged with Hogyoku. That makes him stronger than pre-Hogyoku Aizen, stronger than every other captain without his sword. xD And with Bankai... URAHARA HAS TO BE WP FFS :/

Well, I can't really say he's "stronger than every other captain, without his sword" just by judging the fight against Aizen as Aizen was more careless than he would be without Hougyoku and it seemed like he actually wanted to see what Urahara has for him, as opposed to him just slashing Gotei13 down when they became boring, but that's Urahara's pro, I think in his strategies he'd always be able to find a way how to "outsmart" the opponent and thus he'd be able to take down beings stronger than himself.

I think some people overrate Urahara, but I think there's a lot of people who underrate him. I... well, in my 'theories' he's a little weaker than senior captains (Kyo, Uki) in raw power (reiatsu, strenght... well I think Urahara should be quite fast as he was on par with Yoruichi when they were sparring years ago, though I doubt both of them were serious (and I doubt Yoruichi isn't faster, of course), so maybe he's even faster than them...), but he's as strong or maybe even more dangerous than them when serious because of his intellect.
Only if we ever saw all of power houses using their full powers :eyeroll

He's not a war potential though, of course.

kkck
November 12, 2012, 12:09 PM
Well, the situation with urahara in regards to aizen is complicated. Aizen did say that he would have been defeated if he had not used the orb however we also know for a fact that aizen wasn't bothering dodging or even keeping his guard up. Would urahara have been able to land a hit on aizen if aizen had been his usual self? We will never know for a fact but IMO it is unlikely. Urahara still has not shown power which would put him past the level of the captains, he seems pretty average when compared to any other captain. He has never shown overpowering reiatsu, he has never shown insane speed, he has never shown insane offensive abilities, everything has always been within what we would expect from any given captain outside of yamamoto and aizen. Urahara is dangerous because of his inventions, not because of his actual power.

Duniak
November 12, 2012, 12:45 PM
Yup. But that Kido's destructive power would still be enough to kill Aizen. It is powerful as hell. Urahara can make his own kidos and seals, he can outsmart... everyone. He created Kido, that destroys person inside-out with his reiatsu. With his intelligence I'm sure he can cast that Kido on anyone.

Still, who knows what Urahara's bankai can do. With his Shikai Urahara can create similar attacks to that he saw, he is haxed copycat. And his bankai could be even more bothersome. Urahara was on par with Yoruichi when he was in her squad when it comes to speed. His Kidos are more than enough to be called INSANE offensive ability. Ichigo's GT couldn't do shit to Aizen. Urahara's Kido would kill him, as he said. About his reiatsu. Noone ever noticed him, he just appears out of nowhere, always. If he's hiding his reiatsu, he can be a monster without us even knowing.

gcreech
November 13, 2012, 01:07 PM
With Bleach it's not as clear cut about Power levels as we like to think, but I can understand why we all go there instinctively after watching DBZ. I really don't think there is a huge difference between Komomura and Soi Fong..

As for War Potentials, it could mean people who would potentially join the Vandenreich for whatever reasons unknown..or people who are a potential threat to them. I'm inclined to think the first choice, because Kenpachi and Ichigo were clearly shown to have been manhandled relatively easily, thereby posing no real threat RIGHT NOW.

As for the last 2, I would venture a guess and say if Isshin took a quincy to be his wife, he may be considered one based on the joining them theory. And maybe the last one could be Uryuu or Ryuuken..though it's hard to say.

---------- Post added November 13, 2012 at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was November 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM ----------

also, they tried to recruit 2 of the 3 known war potentials.

deadsuit
November 14, 2012, 11:35 PM
I wonder if Aizen is a potential because his bankai has never been truly revealed. Kenpachi has to make a comeback at least learn shikai or bankai, otherwise wtf is the point of him being a potential?

dex
November 15, 2012, 09:10 AM
five war potentials can be
ichigo (hero)
kenpachi(brute)
aizen(troll)
mayuri(psycho)
yoruichi(rebel)

Uchiha_Blood
November 15, 2012, 09:14 AM
I wonder if Aizen is a potential because his bankai has never been truly revealed. Kenpachi has to make a comeback at least learn shikai or bankai, otherwise wtf is the point of him being a potential?

He can fight at a Bankai level without having a Bankai, meaning Sternritters would be, theorically, in trouble ( since, as confirmed, they greatly fear Bankais ).

Imo the fourth is clearly Ishida, the fifth is either Urahara or Isshin, judging either by Urahara's hype and Ichigo's close ties with Bach.

Kay3795
November 15, 2012, 05:50 PM
Urahaha being a War P? I highly doubt it. The Sternritter nor their subordinates nor his Majesty never made mention of him at all.
Besides why would he be a War P? In fact what is a War P in the eyes of Bach? He didn't even consider Yama as one so this has more to do with just power.

lawlett-kun
November 15, 2012, 07:12 PM
my list:
aizen
ichigo
ichicome
Kubo

deadsuit
November 16, 2012, 12:10 AM
urahara must have shown his bankai to become captain, however deadly it may be. So the SR can prob steal his as well, if he doesnt come up with a way to block the medallions. He needs to reverse the medallions, not just block them. Zanka no tachi South will prob bring back all the shinigami that have been killed in the first round of the war

cracker
November 16, 2012, 12:22 AM
A couple things dead suit. Yama said the South brings back those who have died by Ryujin Jakka's flame... It doesn't bring back dead people in general and also it doesn't matter what Urahara bankai is, apparently if you are as strong as him or stronger you can steal and effectively use his bankai against him.

Kay3795
November 16, 2012, 12:52 AM
What's a bunch of skeletons gonna do? Well, I'll admit it is an EVIL:kukuku tech capable of causing an emotinal uproar for some characters but at the end of the day, they are just skeletons to be smashed into pieces.

cracker
November 16, 2012, 01:00 AM
I'd have to check the chapter again... They did seem weak but did they cause Royd defensive spell to cease... The spell he said would have torn Yama asunder.
Maybe the Skeletons were a setup for the North tech. which seem to be a projectile version of first tech.

dex
November 16, 2012, 02:19 PM
I'd have to check the chapter again... They did seem weak but did they cause Royd defensive spell to cease... The spell he said would have torn Yama asunder.
Maybe the Skeletons were a setup for the North tech. which seem to be a projectile version of first tech.

skeletons being weak or strong depends on whome they are being used against...

0Xellos
November 17, 2012, 09:01 AM
What's a bunch of skeletons gonna do? Well, I'll admit it is an EVIL:kukuku tech capable of causing an emotinal uproar for some characters but at the end of the day, they are just skeletons to be smashed into pieces.

At least, fighting this many enemies should wear down anyone. Sometimes, there is strength in numbers.

Norio
November 29, 2012, 02:32 PM
Maybe my viewpoint doesn't fit in some people's minds...

Ichigo (Hybrid, with a bankai that can't be stolen)
Kenpachi (Strong without a bankai)
Aizen (Hax ability)
Ginjou (Hybrid, maybe his bankai can't be stolen too)
Ishida (Potential to become strong quincy if he learn the new techniques)

yoruichi(rebel)

conn-man
March 03, 2013, 10:25 PM
Zaraki just became a war potential all over again, imo hes the strongest member of the remaining gotei 13.

I could see Ginjo as a possibility, hes a strong hybrid....scratch that, Ginjou probably isnt even on the quincys radar. But that means hes a secrect weapon:verily

Maybe Issin, Bach probably knows Issin.

We hav yet to see the full extent of shunkou i believe and its already been portrayed as bankai level. So yoruichi could be one too.

FaustXIII
March 04, 2013, 11:50 PM
The 5 War Potentials?

1 Kenpachi

2 Byakuya

3 Ichigo

4 Inoue

5 Uryu

devstauk
March 05, 2013, 11:31 AM
Just going to update this abit.....

basically we know 3 of the 5 war potentials which are:
Ichigo
Aizen
Zaraki
These are the only 3 confirmed as WP's

With these being confirmed by JB it shows that anyone that was in SS at the time of the attack was outed, so let's look at who could be next who are still alive but have yet to be engaged in a battle with Quincy, There are loads of characters but im only going to say who i think the top contenders are...

Let me start by saying, Ginjo is probably at the top of this list only because if he has anything close to the power he had against ichigo he could easily overwhelm any quincy due to his speed, plus and or defense's & offensive abilities, the only reason he lost the fight with ichigo is because he saw that ichigo didn't care about what SS has done in the past he just cares about protecting the people he cares about, battles in bleach have show time and time again that underneath the "powerlevels" has most like to call it, there is an emotional battle, and unless the emotional development of ichigo is above that of his enemies he will inevitably win

then we have Isshin.... and i say this loosely only because if you look at it logically he should be above most captains fighting Aizen(caccoon) on par, while apparently Aizen trashed "8"captains base form (this gives me the impression Isshin is actually RG) But then again he was saved by masaki, something hurt him don't know what/why just yet.

Yoruichi, now i think she is a high contender basically due to her abilities as fighter, she has some major skills and has shown that she can fight on par with some heavy hitters without the need of shikai/bankai ([reason for bold] we have seen pretty much everyones Shikai apart from hers so i think there is a major reason for this which is yet to be reviled, or has been subtly hinted at)

I know this would make six but i think 2 out of 3 above have a higher possibility of being Mind-F**ked by Bach

DraMas26
March 07, 2013, 05:13 AM
The only solid pattern I've seen from these SWP is that they all seem have some form of rivalry with Ichigo. Maybe Ichigo is the trump card and the other 4 are just meant to power him up or sth.

Anyway the SWP seem to be Ichigo's rival from a different race/species/whatever:

Aizen - transcendent or sth like it (He still has the Hogyouku in him).
Kenpachi - Shinigami

So I'd say the other 2 are:

Ishida - Quincy
Grimmjow - Arrancar

Grimmjow and Ginjou bother have different manifestations of hollow powers but I'm going to go with Grimmjow because he seems to be more of a rival to Ichigo. Ginjou was planning to leave Ichigo after he stole his powers anyway. Grimmjow actively sought Ichigo out all the time. Besides Ginjou already has a role in the story since we're going to get his flashback but Grimmjow needs to do something. I mean he's a popular character so I doubt Kubo is jsut going to throw him on the sidelines.

I don't think it's Isshin or anyone else due to what Bach said about Yama. He said he didn't make Yama a SWP because he became soft. So a requirement for becoming a SWP is to become ruthless in a way. This makes sense with who we have so far:

Ichigo - mess his mind up right and you can make him do horrible things like when his inner hollow took over his body.
Aizen - obvious
Kenpachi - Yama was afraid he'd revolt if he kept training him. However why would Kenpachi revolt? It sounds strange but Yama seriously considered it so I presume there's a dakr part of Kenpachi we don't know about.

Ishida is a Quincy so it shouldn't be too hard to get him to go against the Shinigami. The VR seem to have some arrancar brainwashing method si getting Grimmjow on their side shouldn't be too hard. I don't see Ginjou as doing anything evil anymore. I think during the time he spent with Ganju he learnt to forgive the Shinigami just like Ganju.

Notak
March 07, 2013, 06:00 AM
- Ishida makes sense because he's a Quincy, and Opie spoke of him as if he should be even more powerful. Or it could be his father instead.

- Grimmjow makes sense because he doesn't have a Bankai that can be stolen, and he is the only known Espada left that's roaming free. And he's had a power-up no doubt.

- Tsukishima, not only is his Book of the End very dangerous in battle, but with one stab/cut he can insert himself to gain intel about the Vandenreich.
Not only that, but he could likely turn Quincy to his side.

If he's not a special war potential, I'll be kinda surprised.


- Ginjo is also a possibility considering his hybrid status, though I doubt it.

th3zone
March 13, 2013, 08:13 PM
Ichigo

Kenpachi

Mayuri

Masaki

Ishida family

MBVC
March 13, 2013, 08:52 PM
Aizen Aizen Aizen Aizen and Aizen!!! ...........+ Ichigo

Azuma
March 14, 2013, 05:21 AM
The thing I'm more curious about when it comes to the Vandenreich is how the hell they have so much intel on everything that is going on, or has been going on in Soul Society for the past 1000 years? They seem to know everything about everybody. Has this been explained at all?

kkck
March 14, 2013, 09:20 AM
I would argue it has something to do with the shadows they use to move around. Quincy can move around with those virtually anywhere and at large undetected by SS. It is not that weird that they would be able to spy on SS without anyone noticing. There is also the relationship the quincy have with good old aizen. For all we know aizen sold vandenreich information on SS.

Beatrice
March 14, 2013, 09:36 AM
Ichigo
Kenpachi
Ururu
Aizen
Uryuu

MBVC
March 14, 2013, 04:16 PM
The true 5 potentials:

Ichigo - da boss

Aizen - shinigami

Ishida - quincy

Tsukishima - human

Grimmjow - hollow

kkck
March 14, 2013, 04:54 PM
I don't think tsukishima is good enough to be a war potential on any front. Even as dangerous as his ability is it is not infallible. Take byakuya for instance. Tsukishima inserted himself into byakuya's memories turning into someone who had been there always. That is easily over 110 years. Even then, byakuya remorselessly killed tsukishima simply because tsukishima was ichigo's enemy. The whole thing is even disturbing to some extent, byakuya being cold hearted enough someone who had been there ALWAYS, no exception. Now, why would the ability be so dangerous to vandenreich? Juhabach is essentially a good to the quincy, how many of them would betray him for a mere human? Tsukishima's greatest assets is to turn your allies and own memories against you and neither of them is likely against juhabach. As for war potentials I would argue the following:

1.- Ichigo

2.- Zaraki

3.- Urahara. Not because of his power but his intellect. If someone can come up with a counter to quincy techniques it is him.

4.- Ishin. Powerful guy, enough to be a match for aizen even though the current timeline suggests ishin was also under the effect of KS (everyone in SS was under the effect of KS and ishin was a captain while aizen also was). I guess it is possible ishin was not under the illusion for whatever reason but even then he would be pretty powerful.

5.- Aizen or shunsui. I am iffy about aizen being a war potential honestly. He was called something like that but juhabach left him to rot there and there was never any chance of SS releasing him to fight alongside shinigami. Shunsui as expected by readers was made the new captain commander. Juhabach went to SS with the sole and unique purpose of killing yamamoto to the point where he lost 5 or 6 stern ritern and did not give a damn about it. If juhabach planned on leaving once yamamoto was dead then he must have considered that by the next encounter they have with SS they will have a new captain commander and with all the information he had on SS it wouldn't have been weird if he suspected shunsui would be the captain commander. I have pointed this out before, shunsui is a damn dirty and borderline dishonorable fighter. Juhabach would have known that if he had information of shunsui. In this regard juhabach would have seen what danger there was in shunsui being the new captain commander. Shunsui as the type of fighter he is taking decisions for SS not to protect its honor and whatnot but rather to SURVIVE AT ALL COST is something that could make a huge difference in the war. It is precisely that sort of attitude which he feared from yamamoto in the past and which he berated him for not having now. And what was shunsui's first move as captain commander? Without an ounce of remorse he sent unohana to die like a worthless sick dog in the deepest darkest pit in SS. The result? SS got a full powered kenpachi capable of defeating bankai unohana easily. To boot the very power that defeated unohana easily is potentially just a fraction of what kenpachi is now capable of as after easily defeating unohana he finally learned the name of his sword. Of course, it is entirely possible unohana actually survived in which case shunsui sent unohana to die in the deepest darkest pit in SS and in return got two full powered kenpachis. Or perhaps unohana survived but she is no longer capable of fighting which still means shunsui ended on the plus side of the gamble as they at least kept a powerful healer instead.

Anyways, my point is that shunsui is worth fearing and it is very possible juhabach was aware of that.

Beatrice
March 14, 2013, 05:10 PM
Well crap, I really seem to be the only one seeing Ururu as Potential.
http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/9/24-207.0/compressed/_M7_Bleach_ch207_13.jpg?v=11192381202
http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/9/24-207.0/compressed/_M7_Bleach_ch207_14.jpg?v=11192381202
http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/9/24-207.0/compressed/_M7_Bleach_ch207_15.jpg?v=11192381202
http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/9/24-207.0/compressed/_M7_Bleach_ch207_16.jpg?v=11192381202

That power is still a mystery to me especially when she isn't even awake but sleepwalking.
I mean freaking hell, she dominated this guy, a Fraccion who is quite high ranked.
I dunno about you's but IMO she certainly does have enormous fighting potential.

Azuma
March 14, 2013, 06:55 PM
I don't think tsukishima is good enough to be a war potential on any front. Even as dangerous as his ability is it is not infallible. Take byakuya for instance. Tsukishima inserted himself into byakuya's memories turning into someone who had been there always. That is easily over 110 years. Even then, byakuya remorselessly killed tsukishima simply because tsukishima was ichigo's enemy. The whole thing is even disturbing to some extent, byakuya being cold hearted enough someone who had been there ALWAYS, no exception. Now, why would the ability be so dangerous to vandenreich? Juhabach is essentially a good to the quincy, how many of them would betray him for a mere human? Tsukishima's greatest assets is to turn your allies and own memories against you and neither of them is likely against juhabach. As for war potentials I would argue the following:

1.- Ichigo

2.- Zaraki

3.- Urahara. Not because of his power but his intellect. If someone can come up with a counter to quincy techniques it is him.

4.- Ishin. Powerful guy, enough to be a match for aizen even though the current timeline suggests ishin was also under the effect of KS (everyone in SS was under the effect of KS and ishin was a captain while aizen also was). I guess it is possible ishin was not under the illusion for whatever reason but even then he would be pretty powerful.

5.- Aizen or shunsui. I am iffy about aizen being a war potential honestly. He was called something like that but juhabach left him to rot there and there was never any chance of SS releasing him to fight alongside shinigami. Shunsui as expected by readers was made the new captain commander. Juhabach went to SS with the sole and unique purpose of killing yamamoto to the point where he lost 5 or 6 stern ritern and did not give a damn about it. If juhabach planned on leaving once yamamoto was dead then he must have considered that by the next encounter they have with SS they will have a new captain commander and with all the information he had on SS it wouldn't have been weird if he suspected shunsui would be the captain commander. I have pointed this out before, shunsui is a damn dirty and borderline dishonorable fighter. Juhabach would have known that if he had information of shunsui. In this regard juhabach would have seen what danger there was in shunsui being the new captain commander. Shunsui as the type of fighter he is taking decisions for SS not to protect its honor and whatnot but rather to SURVIVE AT ALL COST is something that could make a huge difference in the war. It is precisely that sort of attitude which he feared from yamamoto in the past and which he berated him for not having now. And what was shunsui's first move as captain commander? Without an ounce of remorse he sent unohana to die like a worthless sick dog in the deepest darkest pit in SS. The result? SS got a full powered kenpachi capable of defeating bankai unohana easily. To boot the very power that defeated unohana easily is potentially just a fraction of what kenpachi is now capable of as after easily defeating unohana he finally learned the name of his sword. Of course, it is entirely possible unohana actually survived in which case shunsui sent unohana to die in the deepest darkest pit in SS and in return got two full powered kenpachis. Or perhaps unohana survived but she is no longer capable of fighting which still means shunsui ended on the plus side of the gamble as they at least kept a powerful healer instead.

Anyways, my point is that shunsui is worth fearing and it is very possible juhabach was aware of that.

The first four people that you've mentioned are the ones I've suspected all along of being war potentials. As you said, Urahara's intellect is indeed worth fearing. He uses it in fights and is usually 2-3 steps ahead of his opponent (like against Aizen and Yammy), not to mention the fact that he makes his own Kido and his extreme combat proficiency in general. I don't think there's anyone better than him at combining Kido with swordsmanship.

As much as I like Kyoraku, I don't see him as one of the war potentials. The reason behind that is that, although we have yet to see his bankai (which I have high hopes for), he seems to be a pure-blooded Shinigami in every sense of the term. For that reason, I think his bankai can be stolen just as easily as Yamamoto's was. Instead, I'd suggest Grimmjow is the 5th war potential (I think it's clear at this point that he was the one in HM with Urahara and co.). The reason for that is that Grimmjow seems to have become Ichigo's main rival. Following Ichigo's extreme power boost since they last fought, Grimmjow must have received something similar. My guess is that he can also use the 2nd form like Ulquiorra used. I also find it interesting that they managed to catch Hallibel, but not Grimmjow.