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Boris999
June 23, 2012, 12:51 PM
I suppose at first I was thinking, when it was first introduced, that god slayer magic was just a little plot-point to make life difficult for dragon-slayers and to wow us with a magic that looked stronger then dragon slayer magic. Back them into a corner, if you will. However, now - more and more - if feels to me as though the author wishes to make a bit more of a story out of them.

The thing is, if they are completely sepperate from dragonslayer magic it causes an unlikely side-effect of there being a magic that is technically more powerful then dragonslayer magic at its own game in a story that is practically all about how awesome dragonslayer magic is. You can argue that Natsu beat god slayer magic, but in truth the magic in itself seemed to be shown in a stronger light than dragonslayer magic. It's just natsu himself that nakama-powered his way through it with a little trick.

Now, that feels to me like there might be some sort of natural link between godslayer magic and dragon slayer magic. Or at least it feels like it would be a good story point to create one.

----

Something that comes to mind, for me, is that godslayer magic could be a natural upgrade of sorts on top of dragonslayer magic. I find dragonforce mode to be a little boring, in truth and it since it has already been achieved a few times it won't add anything new in a tough situation.

So I thought, dragonslayers were meant to defeat dragons but it seems far fetched that they can do so with what they have shown so far (not to mention Zeref mentioning that Natsu isn't really at a good level yet). So perhaps dragonslayer magic is a magic that humans learn from dragons, and godslayer is a magic that humans learn without dragons - and when they are combined they achieve a level that surpasses a dragon and can reliably defeat them.

A simple way of putting it would be.

1. 1st Generation Dragonslayer/2nd Generation dragonslayer
2. 3rd generation Dragonslayer (Say Natsu with his new lightening powers.)
3. 3rd Generation Dragonslayer who has also mastered god slayer magic and combined the two(Dragon God Slayer magic?), therefore actually surpassing a dragon.

It would give Natsu is clear skill to actually spend time training, it would give a more obvious upgrade then just giving Natsu an imaginary power boost when he is in a tough spot and Natsu has already shown that it is possibly to combine dragon slayer and god slayer magic into one attack - though he stole it rather then creating his own.

Personally, while I am not sure the author would take it that way - it seems like it would be a natural direction to go. It seems a little weird to me that, for example, Natsu who is the be all and end all of fire magic in the manga will end up having any fire magic that he cannot -easily- eat.

On that note, perhaps Zeref's overwhelming power comes from the fact that he also has Black dragonslayer and Black godslayer magic combined and he is currently the only one.

Just random musings of a drunk guy just come back from a night out, but thoughts? :)

kkck
June 23, 2012, 03:44 PM
Well, my main issue with the theory is that it rejects what a god slayer magic is supposed to be. According to your theory god slayer magic would be something which can really and is meant to defeat dragons by surpassing them. Wouldn't that ultimately be just dragon slaying magic? Dragon slaying magic is meant to give the user the constitution and actual powers of a dragon to kill dragons. God slayer magic in the same way would be magic meant to give the user the constitution and power of a god in order to defeat a god. Your theory would have the implication that there are no gods which in turns implies that god slayers are not mimicking any creature in particular, they just call themselves that for the heck of it.

Blanka
June 23, 2012, 09:49 PM
So I was excited by theory opened, but it was a bit hard to follow.

Fire God Slayer Magic - Black, fire that can burn through other fire
Sky God Slayer Magic - Black, user can heal at near instantaneous rate
Lightning God Slayer Magic - Black, Ogra of Sabertooth most likely has this lost magic
Death God Slayer Magic - Black, Zeref has the ability of death learned from either a God or lost text

So firstly the power categories of dragons and gods are in parallel so there is most likely a poison and metal god slayer magic and whatever the two other dragon slayers have. Secondly, God slayer = Lost magic = Black = Zeref.
Working theory is that dragon magic is a magic of vitality and life, dragons can absorb the energy of their element replenishing their magic and have naturally strong constitutions making them durable and fast healing. Their will to live / emotions can enhance their magic. God slayer magic is the magic to take life by an element. Fire that will even burn up other fire. Their magic allows them to absorb life force hurt by their element making them virtually unscathed from an element match. Acnologia is a black dragon in color, but its element is unknown. It never taught a human its magic as it did not respect them. Zeref learned the God Slayer form of that magic. Black does not necessarily represent death, but in the way that dragons are tied to life, the gods are tied to anti-life.

thousandIN1
June 24, 2012, 12:11 AM
ok so you're saying zeref mimicked agnologia dragon slayer tech. and called it god slayer tech.
zeref(GS) = anti-life, hence the black elements
acnologia(DS) = life, vitality, endurance, etc..
this is a really great theory, i like it!!
i think you're forgetting mavis though in this equation
maybe..
mavis(DGS) = light/darkness death/life

dark angel KaRamo
June 24, 2012, 12:19 AM
zeref may have learned it from lost text and he just keep on developing it and they maybe more lost text and the others may have had the other GS magic on them and they were sent all over the kingdom and found by other people and only some wizard can claim it as there own not every wizard can handle GS magic i say this because zancrow Learned his from Hades so hades should have had it too but he didn't
Or maybe GS magic was created by zeref him self and it is black magic that's way it had the black color and zeref dose have lost magic and GS magic is just that so he may just be the one ho created them but DS magic is for dragon and I've seen them and GS magic are for gods but were are they
All so i've bin thinning that zeref could be a DS (Dragon Slayer) but now i'm thinning DGS (Dragon God Slayer) why that time on tenroujima when the black dragon acnologia attack fairy tail in that time natsu was asking it about igneel zeref said it's pointless acnologia doesn't talk to humans because it hates them and that had me thinning that he new alot about acnologia not to mention he new that he was coming long before he was close to the island had me to believe that zeref have learn his magic from that dragon and then maybe try to kill him to be come a true dragon slayer and failed that's why acnologia hate all human now and then he went on to develop God slayer magic one that is even stronger than DS magic but got corrupted down that line and started to develop more and more evil magic (that is just my thought tho)

thousandIN1
June 24, 2012, 12:30 AM
i actually think that the DS's are brothers and sisters

Boris999
June 24, 2012, 01:37 AM
Well, the theory itself it's just a random thought that occurred; it could be right or wrong.

The main point was to bring forth the idea that Dragonslayer magic and Godslayer magic must have some sort of storyline connection.

They are both lost magic.
They both do pretty much identical things.
This story is about dragonslayers so they are probably going to end up the 'kings' of their respective elements.

The link can be in a hundred different ways. Godslayer could just be the opposite of dragonslayer magic, or the balance.
It could be what I theorised.
It could be Zeref's corruption of the dragonslayer arts using evil magic in order to make it even more powerful.

The point being, it wasn't the theory I was trying to emphasise but the idea that the two have a connection of some sort.

hoeru
June 24, 2012, 08:40 AM
A theory without involving Zeref: What if the "Dragonslayers" were simply treated like "Gods" for being able to kill Dragons, and the Godslayer magic was developed to get rid of those gods?

Jorge D. Dragon
June 24, 2012, 08:50 AM
I agree that there should be a connection between these two types of magic as they mostly share the same moves with the exeption that the same God Slayer moves would be stronger and would be harder to eat by respective DS, so it really might happen that both types of magic are connected. And it might be that Mavis knows something about it and she might tell the mystery behind GDS magic in the upcoming chapters as it seems that she was quite surprised that Shelia knew this kind of magic.:)

hoeru
You might be also right on this.:) As the guys like Natsu and Luxus are damn powerful and they aren't even at their prime and if those like 3d generation of DS take both of their respective types of DS magic to the utmost they might really be like Gods to most of the people.:)

kkck
I also like your theory which if I'm not mistaken connects God Slayers to Tartaros Guild.:) It would be really interesting if it will occur like this and we'll see the fight between Tartaros and FT.:)

hoeru
June 24, 2012, 10:14 AM
Well, on a review... It may actually be Zeref who at least helped developing those Godslayers. :derp It makes sense in a way as Hades and his later guild were tracing Zeref and likely stumbled across some parts of his research.

Overall, those Dragonslayer generations I, II, II and the Godslayer reminds me on Dragon Ball's Super Saiyan I stages and the Super Saiyan II in the Cell saga. :nerd

kkck
June 24, 2012, 10:58 AM
A theory without involving Zeref: What if the "Dragonslayers" were simply treated like "Gods" for being able to kill Dragons, and the Godslayer magic was developed to get rid of those gods?

Well, that would entail that god slayers are mimicking the constitution and powers of DS who are people who mimic the constitution and powers of dragons. Basically, the best magic to get rid of a DS is DS magic and the scenario you describe only gives DS magic another name for no good reason lol.

hoeru
June 24, 2012, 01:08 PM
But as a DS you'd also be in danger of being defeated by that other DS you're targeting. As Godslayer, even the mightiest DS attacks don't even do a scratch.

XXGenesis
June 24, 2012, 05:34 PM
When Zancrow was introduced I didn't think there was going to be another God slayer of a different element...Seems to be a mini plot going on and from what we've seen the Lost Magic itself seems more destructive or powerful than Dragon Slayer. The casters have also cast black version of the DS powers so God Slaying magic could be a type of Dark Magic....

I think it's safe to say we may be seeing more and more of God Slayers as to what exactly are they who knows right except they infer they kick bigger Hides than Dragons..Natsu was able to win by emptying his magical power and then ate his flames Makarov commented on this as it seems to be a High level risk magic technique... Wendy looks like she's gonna lose this fight but I can't hold it against her she's not a natural battle combatant..But this development of other God Slayer Affinity's is interesting and spices up FT.

SlayerKisame
June 24, 2012, 06:24 PM
When Zancrow was introduced I didn't think there was going to be another God slayer of a different element...

I suppose at first I was thinking, when it was first introduced, that god slayer magic was just a little plot-point to make life difficult for dragon-slayers and to wow us with a magic that looked stronger then dragon slayer magic.
Guys, I'm not sure what made you think godslayer magic was going to be a one-shot/experment. That would've been ridiculous. Were you expecting to go through the manga without ever seeing another godslayer after Zancrow? It just would've been bad writing to create a character and a Lost Magic category just to counter Natsu. I immediately thought that we were going to see many more godslayers after Zancrow and I think it's a really interesting idea. To see how it plays out and what constitutes a "god".

kkck
June 24, 2012, 11:29 PM
But as a DS you'd also be in danger of being defeated by that other DS you're targeting. As Godslayer, even the mightiest DS attacks don't even do a scratch.

Well, the situation between DS and GS of the same element is kinda iffy. I mean, with zancrow and natsu it was zancrow who had the overall advantage at first and it was only with a higher flame that natsu was able to win. Now, lets assume natsu and zancrow fought yet again. Would things go the same way? I doubt it, natsu already showed he could eat the god's flame and make that into his own power. Basically, the scenario of a god slayer being plain better than a DS has been removed and if anything they seem equal. With wendy and shelia we have an entirely different scenario. Wendy and shelia do exchange blows and hurt each other with their magics which is completely different from the natsu-zancrow scenario where it came to eating the others flame. Now, shelia has shown an advantage however it is not because she is immune to DS magic but rather because she can use her magic to heal herself instantly while wendy for whatever reason (which could be either an actual innability to do so or simply a lack of mastery of her magic) cannot currently do that. I guess we have to wait and see for the laxus-orga fight and see how the advantage disadvantage thing plays out.

Impossibility
June 25, 2012, 08:57 AM
I don't really see any evidence to suggest that there is some sort of link between the Dragonslayers and Godslayers, in terms of their fundamental magic. The styles are similar, but beyond that there doesn't appear to be anything that would indicate some sort of deep connection. I think it likely that comparable attacks have emerged because the two groups may have learned from each other in the past, often mimicking the techniques of other groups, because their magics were similar in their form and their purpose. The theory of the evolution of DS to GS seems far-fetched based on what we've seen so far. I think the most interesting aspect of the GSs is the fact that their magic exists to take on gods. I'd be interested to see exact what these gods are, and what they're capable of. I do admit to liking the idea of a pantheon that mirrors the dragons, at least to a certain extent.

SlayerKisame
June 25, 2012, 01:34 PM
I don't really see any evidence to suggest that there is some sort of link between the Dragonslayers and Godslayers, in terms of their fundamental magic. The styles are similar, but beyond that there doesn't appear to be anything that would indicate some sort of deep connection. I think it likely that comparable attacks have emerged because the two groups may have learned from each other in the past, often mimicking the techniques of other groups, because their magics were similar in their form and their purpose. The theory of the evolution of DS to GS seems far-fetched based on what we've seen so far. I think the most interesting aspect of the GSs is the fact that their magic exists to take on gods. I'd be interested to see exact what these gods are, and what they're capable of. I do admit to liking the idea of a pantheon that mirrors the dragons, at least to a certain extent.We know godslayers can eat their element just like dragonslayers. Dragonslayers were said to be able to eat their element because they have the physiology of a dragon. I'm not sure what the physiology of a god is, though. Then there's the similar attacks. Those two pretty important similarities, imho.

Kauia
June 25, 2012, 01:34 PM
What I'm wondering is that the way godslayer magic taught is different. For Zancrow, it was Hades who taught the magic, a human while dragon slayers were taught by a dragon itself, second generations aren't really considered dragon slayers as Makarov once stated. The other two Orga and Chelia has yet to be discovered about who learned it from whom. Chelia's a cousin of Sherry's so I think its human. Another point is that godslayer magic is still a tad mysterious because hte magic behing it is still in a question mark. The manga hasn't revealed that much. With other two godslayers showing up, I think Zancrow might show up in a future arc. Do you think there are different generations of godslayer like dragonslayer which had the second and third. I still question if they have what it takes to defeat the first since the first, from my view are different from the second and third.

SlayerKisame
June 25, 2012, 01:40 PM
What I'm wondering is that the way godslayer magic taught is different. For Zancrow, it was Hades who taught the magic, a human while dragon slayers were taught by a dragon itself, second generations aren't really considered dragon slayers as Makarov once stated. The other two Orga and Chelia has yet to be discovered about who learned it from whom. Chelia's a cousin of Sherry's so I think its human. Another point is that godslayer magic is still a tad mysterious because hte magic behing it is still in a question mark. The manga hasn't revealed that much. With other two godslayers showing up, I think Zancrow might show up in a future arc. Do you think there are different generations of godslayer like dragonslayer which had the second and third. I still question if they have what it takes to defeat the first since the first, from my view are different from the second and third.
That reminds me of what Mystogan was talking about last chapter about how he felt Zeref's presence (or connection to Zeref) with Chelia. Could he have something to do with her magic? If so, why wasn't that obvious with Zancrow as well? Or Orga? Does Zeref teach it a special way? It's all weird...

Kauia
June 25, 2012, 02:24 PM
I'm actually thinking if Chelia's really Chelia right now. She was acting odd to me by the last few panels. Or maybe her level of godslayer magic may be much advanced to the others OR maybe it's because of the nature of her sky godslaying magic. Like someone mentioned before, it was an opposite, Life-Death. There must be some kind of link.

kkck
June 25, 2012, 03:28 PM
Somehow I doubt shelia's level of GS magic is so advanced. She hasn't been eating wendy's magic and has actually been hurt by it. Not sure if sky magic is the same as life magic. more so, more than death magic zeref's magic has been called living magic throughout the manga.

As for her being weird looking in the last few panels....
http://www.mangareader.net/135-58342-22/fairy-tail/chapter-207.html
We have seen mashima pull that one before albeit more shamelessly.

dark angel KaRamo
June 26, 2012, 03:14 AM
as far as i'm seeing it's a fight between a girl who doesn't like to fight with a girl who likes to fight so wendy who doesn't like to fight wont use her full power ontill she is back in to a corner witch she is now wendy also needs to learn how to heal her self quick and not to use to much large scale attacks at the start of a fight cause she run out of magic power too damn fast what wendy needs to do now it eat shelia magic now and kick her ass and shelia is not all that good i mean she isn't bad but there are so many wizard in that stadium that could kick shelia ass with ease.

back to the point Shelia's GS magic may have a little more over Wendy's DS magic but it depends on what kind of training they bout had, wendy had to teach her self when her dragon disappeared but who thought shelia that is one of the question so wendy is not at her full potential yet shelia just may have learned a bit more then wendy and trained harder

okaneman
July 06, 2012, 03:17 AM
From what I know, Dragon Slayer Magic, learned by humans, cannot kill the Dragons (Sting/Rogue might BS Natsu & friends), and God Slayer Magic, learned by humans, also cannot kill the Gods (whoever they are). In term of strength, GS is above DS, but so far GS Mage can't beat/tied with DS Mage because of FT Nakama's charm... Or maybe there really is a bunch of Gods who thaught GS magic LOL...

R3D
July 08, 2012, 05:56 AM
how can slayer magic learned without the help of dragons be stronger than the ones learned from actual dragons even if DSers dont look like they can beat actual dragons ? if thats the case wouldnt it be better to not learn it from the dragons themselves and why call it slayer magic in the first place ? i think the GS magic is actually just dark element infused with a natural element , the dark magic is what makes it so powerful and in my head , fairy tail magic law is light magic > dark magic > others lol

kkck
July 08, 2012, 10:43 AM
how can slayer magic learned without the help of dragons be stronger than the ones learned from actual dragons even if DSers dont look like they can beat actual dragons ? if thats the case wouldnt it be better to not learn it from the dragons themselves and why call it slayer magic in the first place ? i think the GS magic is actually just dark element infused with a natural element , the dark magic is what makes it so powerful and in my head , fairy tail magic law is light magic > dark magic > others lol

Well, the whole thing has hardly be explained by the manga. The only things we actually know are that dragon slayers use their magic to turn their bodies into some dragonlike being and use the same type of magic dragons use. Honestly, the idea that "real" dragon slayers are actually better than the ones that use lachrima cannot actually be supported with the manga. Has the manga ever confirmed real DS are better than lachrima users? More so, if dragons were the actual source of real DS lachrima then even "real" dragon slayer magic would not actually be real. If dragons doing something to the potential user is a requirement for the DS to learn the magic then it wouldn't in principle be significantly different from using a lachrima as either one would require foreign involvement. Then again, sticking to the definition of what a DS is, someone who mimics the body and powers of a dragon, the lachrima users have conclusively proven to be better at it. Not only they have usually being stronger than real DS (laxus would hand natsu his ass and cobra actually did that until natsu took advantage of his non DS ability) but they seem more dragonlike. Overall at least based on what we have seen so far the idea that real DSs are better than fake ones is nothing but simple bias based because the word "fake" has a negative connotation which cannot be sustained by anything in the manga. More so, sting and rogue were implied to have become stronger through the use of DS lachrima meaning that even a real DS can take advantage of it.