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kkck
July 16, 2012, 10:33 PM
I think raven tail is due on having a thread.

Raven tail has been a plot point of the series for a decent bit now. They were present during the fairy tail games arc and gajeel was revealed to be a double spy on FT's side. Then they were revealed as being a very influential dark guild. At least they were the only dark guild not affiliated to the balam alliance which had any real worth an influence. The more recent chapters have even hinted at ravel tail having had at some point actual contact with purehito as an explanation for the leaking of lumen histoire. Odds are that Raven tail is going to be relevant in a near future although perhaps not just now.

Anyways, something else which I found interesting is that perhaps raven tail has been a factor since before we even knew it existed. going through the older chapters I suddenly noticed something rather obvious.
http://www.mangareader.net/135-7201-7/fairy-tail/chapter-86.html
Is it plausible raven tail is actually related to trinity raven? It would make sense given the name but more importantly it would perhaps suggest that the events of TOP arc was a sort of multi layered conspiracy with a number of dark guilds having a part in it. I mean, brain was some sort of mentor or teacher of gerard at some point in the past. We saw than when it turned out it was brain who taught gerard that one destruction spell. Then we had grimmoire heart being the ones actually behind the whole charade which turned out to be the arc. Then we could add raven tail who in some form would have supported this. Perhaps it will be interesting to see to what extent hades and ivan were related in the past and perhaps we will even find out tartarus having some sort of stake at the tower too.

MAX_COLA_POWER!
July 16, 2012, 11:46 PM
Umm, this thread would've been a lot more relevant, BEFORE the Massive beating they received thanks to Laxus in the Grand Magic Games, revealing them to be fodder on top of fodder on top of fodder.

Schabrak
July 17, 2012, 10:57 AM
You mean generate more discussion? Yes it would, but a retrospective talk can be just as good. There is no need to use a spoiler tag for a past event.

Don't really think that Trinity Raven had something to do with Ivan's guild, maybe Mashima just forgot about him.^^ Would like to see more of them though, there must be a couple of new dark guilds since 2 out of the three big ones have gone down seven years ago. Crime Sorcière can't have been fighting Zeref's off-spring all the time.

I can somehow understand Mavis's bawling from last chapter, first the second guild master, than the thirds son falling into darkness and creating two of the worst dark guilds.


Thanks to Laxus in the Grand Magic Games, revealing them to be fodder on top of fodder on top of fodder.
You might want to check his chart, Laxus is probably only topped by Gildarts an Makarov, while I'm not even that sure about Makarov anymore. Being beaten by a high tier S class mage is no display of weakness. His ATT/DEF/SPD attributes are off the chart (http://mangafox.me/manga/fairy_tail/v33/c280.5/4.html).

kkck
July 17, 2012, 12:54 PM
Well, laxus is perhaps at the same level as gildarts although I guess we do have to wait for him to show what he's got. If his power matches orga then luxus is potentially 3 times weaker than gildarts though...

And to be honest I question to what extent raven tail was serious during the fight. I mean, did any of it make sense at all? Why in the world would they take the trouble to become a real guild only to corner laxus in front of thousands of witnesses? It would have been significantly smarter to corner him basically under any other circumstance. Seriously, what could conceivably be worst than thousands of spectators and council members? Why not corner laxus during a mission? Why not at least try to surprise attack makarov at any random moment? I mean, they had a perfect illusion, trickery should have been easy for them. I think raven tail went there and actually accomplished whatever they set out themselves to do. Perhaps they were just a distraction, perhaps laxus has a paper stuck to his body without realizing it, perhaps the guy behind the eclipse plan wanted them to be the focus of the greatest concentration of magic in fiore...

Schabrak
July 17, 2012, 02:53 PM
Again a case of plot induced stupidity by Mashima, I don't like it, but it got them out of the game for now, so we can concentrate on ST, Kagura, Lucy, Eclipse etc.

Tame
July 18, 2012, 04:58 AM
I don't mind them being out of the Games but I do hope they come back and that for some reason they either lost on purpose or weren't using full strength. Well, Iwan at least. Having them all get curb-stomped by Laxus was epic no doubt, but if that's the end of them there Mashima built up their entire sub-plot which had the potential to be really interesting and then resolved it all in two chapters.

MAX_COLA_POWER!
July 18, 2012, 10:58 PM
Besides, this whole guild's a joke. Who in their right mind treats their own son as a trojan horse with dragon lachryma as a monetary investment, beats up female members for using outside help, and basically makes the whole damn guild only to get back at your father just because you have daddy never loved me issues? Everything he knew about Lumen Histoire was fed to him by another evil psycho nut. They fought not by training, but by info they received by a spy, which I am glad bit them in the butt. Quite honestly, like I said, talking about this guild is a waste of time, and until Mashima decides to bring them back, should just be discarded and never talked about again.

Tame
July 19, 2012, 04:16 AM
Besides, this whole guild's a joke. Who in their right mind treats their own son as a trojan horse with dragon lachryma as a monetary investment, beats up female members for using outside help, and basically makes the whole damn guild only to get back at your father just because you have daddy never loved me issues? Everything he knew about Lumen Histoire was fed to him by another evil psycho nut. They fought not by training, but by info they received by a spy, which I am glad bit them in the butt. Quite honestly, like I said, talking about this guild is a waste of time, and until Mashima decides to bring them back, should just be discarded and never talked about again.

So why are you doing it? lol I don't think anyone's gonna disagree with you about Iwan being a whiny so-and-so but to completely discard them would be poor story-telling methinks. Introducing a potential plot thread, stringing it out and slowly building it up, leaving hints etc. and then have it resolved in the most unimaginitive and anti-climactic way possible just means that you wasted your time building them up in the first place.

Also, I know that Laxus wants to prove that he's strong not just because he's Makarov's grandson and that no one cares about blood ties that much but I can't believe that genetics doesn't play some part in determining one's magical potential. And that being the case, I don't really buy Makarov's son and Laxus' father being curb-stomped in one hit. Either he took a dive or that's some poor writing on Mashima's part, in my opinion.

Obra's little goblin buddy's gonna pop up again in the future, too.

Schabrak
July 19, 2012, 06:25 AM
What kind of guild? A dark guild. Questions answered and please don't tell people to not talk about a certain topic in their own thread. Also it's not about love issues, nice way of missing the point, but to get to power like every other dark guild we've seen until now. And as we have seen two chapters ago, Lumen Histories seems to be some kind of powerful object/information/magic, so yes, that seems to be a good thing to strive for as a dark guild.

They obviously had training beforehand, just not enough to take on Laxus.

kkck
July 19, 2012, 12:09 PM
The obra thing is actually an interesting point. There is something I don't get about that particular development though. As was said in the manga, ravel tail is not allowed to participate in the tournament for 3 years. What that entails is that raven tail will continue to exist 3 years from now. Was there a point in that little guy actually escaping like that? I mean, even if the raven tail guys are somehow detained it does not seem like it is going to be for a long time.

Another thing I have been wondering is just how raven tail was an anti fairy guild. Who exactly would be countered by the magic they just showed? As far as we know, paper would be weak against water and particularly strong against nothing (at least as far as we know of the ability). The spike things that midget had did not seem to counter anything either. I guess physical combat would be tough against him to some extent but even then I can't imagine punching spikes being such a huge issue. The mimicry guy did seem very strong and his magic is useful to say the least but his magic in itself does not counter anything in particular. His ability to counter depends on his ability to mimic a magic which is strong against his enemy however that does not apply to fairy tail itself but rather any mage. Flare just used hair.. Only person that would be strong against is lucy and only because she could potentially restrain her from using her keys. Even then, it did not work and she was at a disadvantage. She'd even be weak against fire, blades, ice and not particularly strong against anything. Obra seems strong but his ability is in itself a counter to magic so far as he has the ability to cancel magic. It is not something which in itself applies to fairy tail.

Which leads me to think, was Ivan actually bullshitting us about that? Either the ravel tail guys were holding back or he simply did not have anti fairy magic. More importantly, FT was gone for the last seven years. We saw makarov talking to laxus about raven tail however there was something off there. If the conversation took place 7 years ago (which is unlikely) then the information is seven years old. If the conversation took place recently then makarov's information is still 7 years old to say the least. Perhaps ivan actually knew of this and took members whose's abilities was somewhat consistent with what makarov knew?

thousandIN1
July 25, 2012, 11:33 PM
i don't think they showed them their true power. IMO iwan had a back up plan just incase his son wouldn't co-operate with him, in this case to just not go full power. which i guess caught iwan by surprise and didn't expect to lose so badly.
i only say that rt didn't show us their true power because when flare had used her hair on lucy her shoes kinda melted away and then in kurohebi's fight against toby it just showed a close up of his eye and win. obra couldn't show us anything and i doubt iwan wanted to harm laxus to the point where he fell unconscious just detain him for enough time. and why would he use paper on laxus knowing he has lightning at his disposal. all in all iwan knew that gajeel was a spy. flare knew it.