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ghostexiled
July 27, 2012, 12:03 PM
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sarutobi_sensei
August 03, 2012, 04:57 PM
GOD what power!!!

To think that they'd get this much stronger in such a short time!

Sting and Rogue cannot surpass them. Even if they have activated Dragon Force, Natsu still hasn't used Lighting Fire Dragon Mode, Gazil is surely hiding another power up, and they still have their own Dragon Force.

So, yeah, they're pretty much fucked up next week.

So they have a promise to their own cats? Figures.

It was worth waiting for this chapter. Really loved it.

crimsonlink310
August 03, 2012, 04:58 PM
This chapter...... EPICCCCCCC!!!! Whats another word thats better than epic? Astounding, amazing, incredible, I could go on. Man this chapter just hit the notes so perfectly. It had the best color pages, fight and ending out of all Fairy Tail chapters yet.

Mashima really outdid himself this time. Can't wait for Mangastream's translation.

Ghan
August 03, 2012, 04:59 PM
The long wait was truly worth it. Thank you Mashima for giving us a very epic chapter.

But is anyone else getting semi-suspicious about that little old man?

sarutobi_sensei
August 03, 2012, 05:02 PM
The long wait was truly worth it. Thank you Mashima for giving us a very epic chapter.

But is anyone else getting semi-suspicious about that little old man?

Yama-jii surely noticed something, either regarding Sting and Rogue or the mysterious magical power that's been assailing the games.

That or he already knows this is going to be FT's victory.

---

So these guys are third generation. Interesting. How come?

Natsu, Gajeel and Wendy are first, Cobra and Laxus are second, these 2 are third. Can't wait to have an insight on the differences.

REN KOUEN
August 03, 2012, 05:04 PM
you know what bothers me...... we never see gajeel or natsu show the dragon scales anymore, it seemed like that was a power up or power level that just isnt used anymore

it kind of reminds me of that last state sting and rock went in to

i am hoping natsu and gajeel can also envoke dragon force!!!

Zehahaha
August 03, 2012, 05:04 PM
Where's the raw ? I see nothing

SerpentTailedAngel
August 03, 2012, 05:04 PM
That was exactly the opposite of what I expected. I figured Natsu and Gajeel would be trashed and have to get back up instead, but the ones who got their second wind were Rogue and Sting...

Rogue looks seriously wicked with his magic activated. And they both have a cooler looking dragon force than Natsu does. I bet there's some sort of penalty for activating it without a powerup though, like when Natsu collapsed from eating etherion.
(Also, what exactly was that promise to Lector about?)


Where's the raw ? I see nothing
Someone gave a link to the chapter in the 239 discussion page.

Rarhyx
August 03, 2012, 05:04 PM
great now I'm even more pumped up for next weeks chapter then I was for this one -.-

REN KOUEN
August 03, 2012, 05:05 PM
Where's the raw ? I see nothing

http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Fairy-Tail/Fairy-Tail-294/page-1

Rarhyx
August 03, 2012, 05:05 PM
Where's the raw ? I see nothing

http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Fairy-Tail/Fairy-Tail-294/

REN KOUEN
August 03, 2012, 05:07 PM
i am glad this fight turned out to be epic, i am hoping natsu and gajeel can also envoke dragon force!!!

i am gonna be pissed if FT loses this fight

Giga_Gaia
August 03, 2012, 05:07 PM
Sting and Rogue just can't win. Even if they activate Dragon Force, there is nothing they can do, they're just far too weak. Fairy tail wins this one I guess.

Natsu and Gajeel aren't even serious.

Lozmaster
August 03, 2012, 05:08 PM
Natsu, Gajeel and Wendy are first, Cobra and Laxus are second, these 2 are third. Can't wait to have an insight on the differences.

....

It's already been explained. Third tier dragon slayers are ones that learned from a Dragon AND had dragon magic Lacrima implanted in them.

Ghan
August 03, 2012, 05:09 PM
So these guys are third generation. Interesting. How come?

Natsu, Gajeel and Wendy are first, Cobra and Laxus are second, these 2 are third. Can't wait to have an insight on the differences.

I thought 3rd generations could use 2 elements? Correct me if I'm wrong

Rarhyx
August 03, 2012, 05:11 PM
this the most awesome fight in the entire arc manga.
mashima should have let fight laxus vs obra first, because now it will be boring fight to read :D


I thought 3rd generations could use 2 elements? Correct me if I'm wrong

nope.
3. generation:
raised by dragon + dragon lacryma infused

crimsonlink310
August 03, 2012, 05:11 PM
Hope that the mangastream translation clears up some mistakes and makes the dialogue flow better. Anyways I voted epic because thats the closest word to describing how awesome this chapter was this week.

Can't wait to have 3rd gen DS magic explained and see Sting and Rouge's dragons.

Ghan
August 03, 2012, 05:11 PM
So apparently Sting's roar is a laser........that he can control........ with his mouth...........sounds fishy

Zehahaha
August 03, 2012, 05:11 PM
What a bunch of noobs
They killed a dragon ? My ass right

Now I'm sure they killed no one and they must be bluffing and whatsoever... Natsu didn't even use his lightning fire mode... They're as good as dead these fellas

Also, I have no doubt that Natsu and Gazille could use Dragon Force as well now... I really can't believe how they still have the guts to face Natsu/Gazille after such a pathetic display of power

I can already see Laxus raping that black lightning guy and same with Erza and Gray

REN KOUEN
August 03, 2012, 05:14 PM
this the most awesome fight in the entire arc manga.
mashima should have let fight laxus vs obra first, because now it will be boring fight to read :D



nope.
3. generation:
raised by dragon + dragon lacryma infused
isnt killing your parent dragon also necessary to be considered third generation? i cant remember if it was a neccessary condition or if those two just happened to do it

dragons4life
August 03, 2012, 05:14 PM
OMG!!!! one word EPIC!!!!!!!!! Man that chapter, thank you Mashima for writing such an epic chapter. My heart was racing the entire time:spaz:onoz:yay:nowei:x3:shout:whoo

I mean look at Sting face wahahahahahahahaha classic :rofl:pwned

kidopitz27
August 03, 2012, 05:15 PM
but in the end Gajeel and Natsu are surprised (a little) at all i think they know that Dragon force have side effects on the body of a DS or that those 2 using dragon force are not complete :) and also Natsu and Gajeel are just using their normal DS attacks and they already pawned those 2

PS: this thread(chapter dicussion) will be a hot topic for being awesome

Ifrit
August 03, 2012, 05:24 PM
Epic, Simply EPIC LOVED IT.

If Sting n Rouge need to activate their Dragon Force, to lay serious damage to Natsu & Gajeel, they already lost the fight,

Gajeel didn't even use his Metal Scales , Natsu didn't use his lightning Dragon magic, The coming chapter will also be worth the wait, I doubt it will end things tho, title say it will give us more details about Sting.

I wonder Igneel refereed to which with can a human defeat a dragon.

Did he mean Natsu & Gajeel as humans...and Sting & Rouge the dragons, or maybe the other way.

The possibility of an actual dragon also exist.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 03, 2012, 05:28 PM
isnt killing your parent dragon also necessary to be considered third generation? i cant remember if it was a neccessary condition or if those two just happened to do it

I don't think so. They said they were "true" dragon slayers for actually killing a dragon, not that it made them 3rd gen.

EldaSenSei
August 03, 2012, 05:29 PM
never seen gajeel going dragonforce. wonder how that will look like :D

exacta
August 03, 2012, 05:32 PM
Sting and Rogue got stomped. Ouch.....but it's a good twist that they can both use DF at will. Maybe this will allow them to win.....but Natsu still has Lightning-Flame Dragonslayer Mode...and I'm sure Gazille's got something. Yeah, they're screwed. White and Black Dragonslayers was a pretty cool idea though....I was just thinking how cool that would be if Mashima made those kind of Dragonslayers this morning and little did I know he had already made them all this time lol.

Also I call bull on that story about Sting and Rogue killing their dragons. Either they made it up for some reason or those two dragons were much, much weaker than Igneel and Metalicana. I'm thinking the former though....but damn these punks seriously think they can beat Acnologia? Bitch please.:cheez

fcToho
August 03, 2012, 05:35 PM
Mhm damn, after these hyped up comments I'm a little disappointed. It's so much brawling / normal punching, I miss the techniques. Especially Gajeel's - 1 Iron Sword, thats it.

AandWguy
August 03, 2012, 05:35 PM
Natsu and Gajeel better win, Im tired of watching sabertooth winning and gloating about it.

Zehahaha
August 03, 2012, 05:37 PM
Crap just remembered... What if those noobs join FT after whatever is gonna happen in this tournament ?
Sabertooth is a big joke (I had doubts when I saw that Orga's wtf face when Jura used his magic back then), but now it's true 100%. Glad to see that FT will become the number one guild again, thank god Mashima.

Solhatten
August 03, 2012, 05:45 PM
Good chapter, just one question did sting and rogue killed their dragon without dragon force right?, or did they have the lacryma inside their body when they killed the dragons?

sabret00the
August 03, 2012, 05:46 PM
EPIC Chapter. That said, I'm bored of Sabertooth already. What is with the "I'm all powerful" get stomped "Check my powerup" "No one can beat them now" get stomped "Check my new powerup". It's bullshit! Let them lose gloriously already. I'm guessing three more chapters at least.

Kuza
August 03, 2012, 05:48 PM
Light and shadow after all huh :derp
Epic, very epic chapter. I hope next wont be some kind of long flashback in stings childhood :-_-
And some thoughts - Mavis is going to help in some way. Also we know some dragonslaying forms (white drive, shadow drive - fire and metal drive inc xD), and the "dragon force" which natsu was close to enter in previous arcs imho. So i'm gonna predict natsu+gajeel enter their "dragon force" forms aswell.:hip

kidopitz27
August 03, 2012, 05:49 PM
is it me or Jella's info about Dragon Force is not updated? (well it's almost 7 years the last time he was pawn by DF :))and also it will be awesome if Natsu and Gajeel will just eat what those 2 will throw at them but im 100% sure natsu will eat their attacks if they use dragon breath attacks :)

1st gen dragons are still the beast like 1 gen dragons are living like a millenia or more while 3rd gen is like created 7 years ago i really think that light and shadow dragons are lesser drakes/wyvern while the 1st gen are like real DRAGONS heheheheh

meepers4982
August 03, 2012, 05:51 PM
It was mentioned when they were first introduced that there was an age difference between gajeel/natsu and rouge/sting and that they were their mentors. Sooooo natsu and gajeel have more experience and power overall. Anyways the impression im getting from reading is that rogue and sting are novices in dragonslaying magic.
It looked like natsu and gajeel were serious but definitely using as little of their techniques as they could so im guessing they'll go all out now w/o dragon force.
Nothings set in stone yet though and while I would love natsu and gajeel to win sting/rouge could win instead...cant wait until the next chapter :D

*edit*
reread the chapter where natsu first meets sting and rogue...natsu has no recollection of them. Its another hint to show that he is a lot older than he looks and that his past must be very interesting. Cant wait this arc is brewing up a lot of answers.

Buggy
August 03, 2012, 05:52 PM
Wow, some of you guys do you even read or just look at pictures?

It was clearly explained here: http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/265/18

1st gen - trained by dragon
2nd gen - lacrima implanted
3rd gen - both trained by dragon AND lacrima implanted

That's why they are able to enter dragon force easily.

frozen18ice
August 03, 2012, 05:57 PM
that was epic just epic not trolling rather more questions that last statement kinda makes me wonder could mavis be also a dragon slayer
http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/95454440/40
natsu, gajeel and the first master put to the test.
it only make sense that this is possible and why and how hades and ivan though of etole being fairy tales darkness coz it it be that mavis's dragon is arconologia mybe im making it up but the shoe kinda fits from frieds magic anything that 300 years old cant leave and mavis dont look a day from a day she is a kid compared to makov thats very old.

but damm that was an amazing chapter natsu and gajeel are epic love the way the fighting was done, i wonder if they will also do dragon forced,
my be thats what igneel is talking about man vs dragons sting and rouge killed their dragons and natsu and gajeel love their dragons but they are still humans, sting and rouge became monsters or dragons by killing their parents.

cant wait for the next chapter

llamapie
August 03, 2012, 05:58 PM
Wow, some of you guys do you even read or just look at pictures?

It was clearly explained here: http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/265/18

1st gen - trained by dragon
2nd gen - lacrima implanted
3rd gen - both trained by dragon AND lacrima implanted

That's why they are able to enter dragon force easily.

Right since natsu has Laxus' power now as well, I assume he's a 3rd gen as well in terms of power and possibly stronger. We haven't seen Natsu or Gajeel pushed to their limits yet, so we'll see.

Natsu has hybrid powers which should make him on a whole other level if he really unlocks his power. I assumed they were hybrids as well being implanted with lacrima but seems the lacrima is the same type. So its possible they killed their dragon and transformed the body into a lacrima and implanted it, vastly improving their power.

Ero-Sanji
August 03, 2012, 06:00 PM
New it!!! Mashima kept it simple and original. Shadow and light are really beautiful, aesthetically, and new and fresh in the FT world. Man, I'm so pleased with this and the way the third generation is "just" being able to reach Dragon force is also really good, instead of the two element theory that a lot were thinking of!

I voted epic, because this was really fullfilling and satisfying, I'm going to read the chapter again now!

Bigfoot187
August 03, 2012, 06:02 PM
Guess nastu Will counter with lightning fire so kinda wonder what gajeel has up his sleeve.

Shure reminded me of à quick DBZ match. Beat downs and powerups

dragons4life
August 03, 2012, 06:03 PM
I just can't stop reading this chapter!!!^^

Tame
August 03, 2012, 06:05 PM
Suck on that, Sting and Rogue!!

Raicrune
August 03, 2012, 06:10 PM
Screw you Lector! its Happy time!

And again this was totaly unexpected. I knew FT would win in the end but not already owning them.. this gave me goosebumps!
Seeing how Natsu and Gajeel winning against ST without any problems and pushing them to dragonforce, I'm almost sure FT is gonna win .. but who knows Mashima can still change that.

Ghan
August 03, 2012, 06:18 PM
But how does Mavis know about Dragon Force? Seems suspicious to me.

Lumen Etoile is still nagging me. I want to know what it is now :verily

Quantized
August 03, 2012, 06:39 PM
Amazing chapter!

I'm so anticipating that these guys just messes around with Natsu and Gajeel pushing them back a little bit for a short time, until Natsu and Gajeel awaken more inner power and knock them down hard. I don't think they deserve being beaten by dragon force, unless they truly get owned to bits and pieces.
Imho, Sabertooth deserves a full out and utter defeat, and we know they aren't the real enemy, which whom is only still approaching.
I don't think it's far fetched at all that Natsu and Gajeel will flat out squeeze these two next chapter, an utterly defeat, or at least I hope they loose like that after what they did to Lucy.

Natsu and Gajeel showed and proved that they're on a whole other level, if they were to use dragon force, there'd be no hope for Sting and Rogue left.
Frankly it makes me laugh when Sting and Rogue think they can beat them, when they get pwned in basic battle, if Natsu and Gajeel follow up with the same techniques, they'd just get a bigger beating :teehee

RAYMONE614
August 03, 2012, 06:42 PM
So he shoots a laser from his mouth huh.. I'm still interested to know what was that all about when he ate that arrow...... somethings got to give about that.....it was an awesome chapter!!!!!

huynhlan
August 03, 2012, 06:43 PM
does natsu even need dragon force mode? he haven't even use lightning fire dragon mode yet and he is already kicking their butt, if he uses dragon force mode then there would be nothing left of them, so I hope natsu and gazil don't go that far, they need to save it for the real enemy. Man I am really wondering if sting and rock even kill a dragon or not at this point.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 03, 2012, 06:56 PM
...Just noticed. Dragon force Sting... kinda resembles demon Mira a little.

Ether
August 03, 2012, 06:59 PM
Veeeeery good fight so far, even if I expected Sting and Rogue to be stronger, the way Mashima made the fight is just perfect for me. Shadow DS and Light DS are very cool looking as well (but I still don't know how you eat light and shadow though...). Anyway, the fight is over, unless their Dragon Force bring them on Gildartz' level, I can't see any way for them to win this. I would love to see Genma's reaction as he sees his two DS being beaten up, he's seriously pissing me off (Minerva as well).
Anyway, very good chapter we have here

frozen18ice
August 03, 2012, 07:00 PM
epic chapter love it, the last part made me wonder if the first master is also a dragon slayer and her dragon is arconologia possibly why hades and ivan thinks that lumen etole is the guilds darkness, it kinda makes sense specially if the last page mention of natsu gajeel and the first master being tested. plus fairy tales log kinda looks like a dragon.

light and shadow was pretty close. i wonder if gajeel and natsu will do dragon force mode, we know they can do it well gajeel did it when protecting levy and natsu does have the lighting fire dragon mode.
i guess master did not know they got trolled in the spirit realm for 3 months if ultear did not open their container this would be a one sided match

Ether
August 03, 2012, 07:10 PM
i guess master did not know they got trolled in the spirit realm for 3 months if ultear did not open their container this would be a one sided match

Yes he does http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/294/35

SlayerKisame
August 03, 2012, 07:14 PM
This is how awesome the chapter was.
http://i.imgur.com/KvhBu.png

Enough said.

REN KOUEN
August 03, 2012, 07:41 PM
Epic, Simply EPIC LOVED IT.

If Sting n Rouge need to activate their Dragon Force, to lay serious damage to Natsu & Gajeel, they already lost the fight,

Gajeel didn't even use his Metal Scales , Natsu didn't use his lightning Dragon magic, The coming chapter will also be worth the wait, I doubt it will end things tho, title say it will give us more details about Sting.

I wonder Igneel refereed to which with can a human defeat a dragon.

Did he mean Natsu & Gajeel as humans...and Sting & Rouge the dragons, or maybe the other way.

The possibility of an actual dragon also exist.

yes i am wondering if we will ever see natsu or gajeel use the scales again, it seemed like a good power increase yet we never see it

fairiehearts
August 03, 2012, 07:51 PM
Epic fight chapter that I've been waiting to see. Really glad he didn't decide to end it in one chapter. I really loved their expressions when Natsu and Gajeel appeared right in front of them when they started. And I agree that shadow and light are very beautiful powers.

I really doubt they actually killed their dragons. I have a feeling they started fighting them and then their dragons disappeared along with the other 3 on 777.


Based on ages I'd say if wendy was grown up she'd be the same age as Sting and Rogue. Random thought.

-Ken-
August 03, 2012, 07:55 PM
This is pretty epic. Natsu haven't even used his lighting attack yet, right? I still think this will somehow ends in a draw.

frozen18ice
August 03, 2012, 08:01 PM
Yes he does http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/294/35

im you did not get what i meant
he knows about the second vessel but if you look back at the chapter where natsu did NOT train for 3 months makov thinks that they trained they partied for a day in the spirit realm=3months of supposed training that was the epic troll and the epic troll solution to the 3months not wasted on a training arch like any other manga goes to ultear with the second vessel S&M montage with all the members of natsu team in pain on the floor.

well my point is they did not train for 3 months that would be a whole different level unless you think that eating and partying is considered 3 months worth of training then get me some of that action.

llamapie
August 03, 2012, 08:03 PM
But how does Mavis know about Dragon Force? Seems suspicious to me.

Lumen Etoile is still nagging me. I want to know what it is now :verily

Traditional vague Japanese troll. Its all connected. 7 7 7 DUN DUN DUN.

JunKisaragi
August 03, 2012, 08:19 PM
Isn't it that Natsu is also able to use Dragon Force? I seem to remember him using it against Jellal and Brain. Whether he has complete access to it however remains a question.

I think the Twin Dragons will still lose this one. Based on the title of next chapter, this'll be a battle of the hearts. While Sting is aiming to win for Lector, Natsu is aiming to win for the whole of FT, and that includes, of course, Lucy. (Nakama Power!!!)

Dunno about Gajeel and Rogue though but I think Gajeel is in on the Nakama Power as well. Do hope we'll also see him use Dragon Force in this fight.

And I agree with the post a page back, Natsu and Gajeel weren't even trying. Sting and Rogue had to activate Dragon Force just to be able to really fight. If Gajeel and Natsu will show that they're able to use Dragon Force next chapter, they'd surely dominate. :)

SerpentTailedAngel
August 03, 2012, 08:22 PM
Natsu entered dragon force after eating etherion and after getting a special fire from Jellal. What was so special about Sting and Rogue doing it was that they just decided to go into dragon force and then they did. No power ups needed.

Aikidoka
August 03, 2012, 08:23 PM
Liked the chapter, Natsu and Gajeel pwning Sting and Rogue were necessary IMO, to get them off their high horse. Now that Sting's serious, the fight will probably be a bit more even. But they needed to be taken down a notch first, after being so cocky this whole arc.

kkck
August 03, 2012, 08:23 PM
So white and shadow are basically light and shadow here... Interesting development. Seems kinda generic though. Anyways, I do wonder what the extent of the shadow dragon's power is. As far as we know light is simply light. It is something that kinda makes sense as a power. Light is energy, photons and whatnot. In turn, shadow is something which as far as we know lacks substance, it is simply an absence of light. I feel this could use a tad more explaining. And I would love to see rogue eating kageyama's attacks lol.

Anyways, I do wonder what exactly these guys eat. Maybe sting is kinda in a wendy ish situation and eats light, which potentially is everywhere. I mean, sting could potentially heal himself during the battle by eating the light from the day. Given the arrow thing though, perhaps he can eat anything that reflects light? Of course his roar seemed different... I do doubt that he will have dragon force and two elements. There is also the consideration of another development. Say sting starts eating the light in the stadium. Then what is left would be darkness which is something which rogue could potentially eat.

This chapter also cleared a doubt which had been in my mind for a while. I always wondered why exactly the FT gang would be so behind their actual peers in terms of magic. I mean, erza, natsu, grey lucy, elfman, lisana or laxus were exceptional mages to begin with. In this particular regard why would other mages their age would suddenly be so much stronger than them? It makes sense that those who were their age would surpass them (although it seemed they merely caught up to the level they had before, say jura or max merely caught up to gildarts and natsu) but their new peers should be at their level. This should by all intents and purposes apply to sting and rogue. There is no particular reason for sting and rogue to be at a basic level significantly different from natsu and gajeel from before second origin. And the manga showed this, sting and rogue did not actually seem significantly stronger than natsu and gajeel from before second origin. The issue here is dragon force. Right here and now though, natsu and gajeel are by all intents and purposes way ahead of their peers. It does seem like FT b got second origin which is quite something though. I can't imagine laxus or erza not trashing orga and minerva....

Earlier I made a prediction regarding the effect and purpose of a DS having real DS magic and a lachrima. It was all about the combination of these two resulting in being more dragonline and thus more powerful. Anyways, I think this much is intuitive however the part I did not account for here was DF. DF has been described the 2 times that it has been used as being the power of dragons. It made natsu match gerard and zero in the past, both of whom were exceptionally strong. In this case the direct result of being more dragonlike is actually dragon force basically. Of course, the DF natsu has shown in the past would not do crap to acknologia to say the least. Gildarts at full power would not do crap to acknologia for that matter.... I think sting and rogue's parents merely set up a situation where they would fake their deaths. I do wonder if DF is possible for normal DS under normal circumstances, it is something which can become an acquired skill rather than a random power boost?

Now, I do wonder how natsu and gajeel are going to deal with this. In the past natsu has described DF as something which doubles or triples his power. In turn second origin is something which could have potentially doubled his original magic. Does this mean DF sting and rogue would be equal to the current natsu and gajeel? Of course that would imply natsu will be fine considering he still has his not so insignificant thunder flame. Gajeel did seem to have actually gotten 3 months worth of training on top of second origin so perhaps he will be fine too....

JunKisaragi
August 03, 2012, 08:27 PM
@SerpentTailedAngel

Hmm...you're right.

Maybe Natsu could also access it freely now? When Natsu was sparring with Max, it was shown that he still has access to Lightning, something that he got from Laxus.

I do hope he does. I really want to see Natsu cleaning up the arena with Sting's face. :D

noname1178
August 03, 2012, 09:00 PM
im you did not get what i meant
he knows about the second vessel but if you look back at the chapter where natsu did NOT train for 3 months makov thinks that they trained they partied for a day in the spirit realm=3months of supposed training that was the epic troll and the epic troll solution to the 3months not wasted on a training arch like any other manga goes to ultear with the second vessel S&M montage with all the members of natsu team in pain on the floor.

well my point is they did not train for 3 months that would be a whole different level unless you think that eating and partying is considered 3 months worth of training then get me some of that action.

The 3months training was meant for Gazeel. He trained alone and didn't get the second vessel thing.

Uriel
August 03, 2012, 09:03 PM
This is one of the Top 5 chapters in Fairy Tail.

That is all I need to say.

zerocooldx
August 03, 2012, 09:28 PM
Its a bit contradictory to see Sting fighting for Lector given the fact that he scoffed at the notion that Natsu and Gajeel where fighting for their friends during the chariot competition. I mean he even said that fighting for such a purpose was trash. Yet here he is now shown as a child with Lector in what seems to be the time where he made a promise to him. And on top of it all the next chapter is titled "Sting and Lector". I would have expected this from Rogue given how different he is from the rest of ST. But its really strange to see Mashima take Sting's character in this direction, its a complete 180 from everything else we saw from him. Unfortunately, for some readers at least, this means that Rogue and Sting aren't going to get their asses handed to them. Yeah they will probably lose, but given the fact that Mashima is having one of them and probably the other one as well fighting with their friends in mind means that this fight will likely come down to the wire with both Sting and Rogue being "shown the light" in the end no pun intended. Which i'm not sure how i feel about yet.

Skyguardian
August 03, 2012, 09:36 PM
This is one of the Top 5 chapters in Fairy Tail.

That is all I need to say.

I dito that.

Not to mention how my heart raced everytime one of them got punched. It felt so damn good to see that... I'd wish Lucy could've seen it to... =/

NAM61
August 03, 2012, 09:39 PM
nice chapter but i did not expect stinga nd rogue to be forced into DF this quick and natsu and gajeel did not seem they were going all out. i think they can enter DF because of lacrima i always thought they would have 2 elements because of the lacrima. but i think the lacrima is used to enter DF like natsu needed something else to enter it. so now i wonder why does natsu have 2 elements i always thought it was because he got some of laxus lacrima by accident when he ate his lightning.

Ghan
August 03, 2012, 09:57 PM
The way Lector had said "But you promised" when Sting was going into dragon force , it makes me think that Sting might had killed somebody.

Or maybe Lector believed that Sting used dragon force to "kill" his dragon.


Idk, it's just some crack theories :3c

llamapie
August 03, 2012, 10:25 PM
So is Rogue the same guy who was on Tenrou island? Or is that just me? Thinking not since he is considerably weaker than whoever that other guy was.

Ghan
August 03, 2012, 10:40 PM
So is Rogue the same guy who was on Tenrou island? Or is that just me? Thinking not since he is considerably weaker than whoever that other guy was.

Not sure if serious or trolling.

That GUY on tenrou island is the Whole point of the show. *facepalm*

Chris38
August 03, 2012, 10:41 PM
Pretty epic chapter in my opinion. I liked Rougue's and Sting's DS powers.

Although, if this fight is epic, I can't help but wonder, how the conclusion of this arc is going to look like - after all, this definitely isn't the last fight of the current arc.

And it was nice, to see that Mashima hasn't forgotten that Lucy is the infirmary, and shown us a short panel of her.

Anyway, on the outcome of the fight between Sting and Rouge vs Natsu and Gajeel - I think it's going to be a draw - while Sting and Rouge entering DF on their own, is a little unexpected, Natsu hasn't got serious yet, since he hasn't entered his Lighting Fire dragon mode yet and Gajeel hasn't demonstrated any new DS techniques that he might have learned during his 3 month training.

Anyway, can't wait for the next chapter.

Although I'm wondering, just how Sting and Rouge are capable of entering DF mode on their own, does that mean that their bodies are more similar to a dragons - which would somehow relate with Igneel's statement about humans exceeding dragons, or is it something different ?

After all, it's pretty obvious that there is some pretty big difference between 1st generation dragon slayers, who up till now, aren't capable of entering dragon force, and the 3 generation who are capable of doing that.

NAM61
August 03, 2012, 10:45 PM
So is Rogue the same guy who was on Tenrou island? Or is that just me? Thinking not since he is considerably weaker than whoever that other guy was.

no that was zeref not rogue

also i dont think natsua nd gajeel will enter DF they would be to strong at base if we can call their normal forms that they seemed way superior to rogue and sting. so in DF they would be even more so. i think they will make it more interesting with them in DF and natsua nd gajeel in normal forms but natsu and gajeel still winning.

Olho07
August 03, 2012, 10:49 PM
So is Rogue the same guy who was on Tenrou island? Or is that just me? Thinking not since he is considerably weaker than whoever that other guy was.

You REALLY need reread the manga. That guy is mentioned during the entire story and is one of the main characters.
http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Zeref

Buggy
August 03, 2012, 11:04 PM
Wonder what will ST master do if a decisive Sting and Rogue victory doesn't happen which now seems ridiculously unlikely.

Given the circumstances and having the upcoming matches in mind, it seems Sabertooth will be no more after the tournament.

Devx10
August 03, 2012, 11:05 PM
Pretty sure Natsu and Gazil will win considering the Chariot chapter, when Gazil says dont go crying later about 1 point to Sting. If FT wins this fight they are exactly one point ahead of Sabertooth.

JunKisaragi
August 03, 2012, 11:39 PM
Although I'm wondering, just how Sting and Rouge are capable of entering DF mode on their own, does that mean that their bodies are more similar to a dragons - which would somehow relate with Igneel's statement about humans exceeding dragons, or is it something different ?

After all, it's pretty obvious that there is some pretty big difference between 1st generation dragon slayers, who up till now, aren't capable of entering dragon force, and the 3 generation who are capable of doing that.

It's the Lacrima that they have in their bodies that allow them to enter DF mode.

From what we currently have, Natsu was able to enter DF mode by 1.) eating Etherion (Tower of Heaven) and 2.) eating the Flame of Rebuke (Nirvana). So most probably, the Lacrima in Sting and Rogue is of another element which is there for the sole purpose of activating DF mode.

Still, there's this hope that Natsu will surprise us with his DF mode using Laxus' Lightning. *cross fingers*

SerpentTailedAngel
August 03, 2012, 11:51 PM
Pretty sure Natsu and Gazil will win considering the Chariot chapter, when Gazil says dont go crying later about 1 point to Sting. If FT wins this fight they are exactly one point ahead of Sabertooth.

Then there's still the last day to even that out. If they tie here and win the next day, then they win by one point.

Grizz
August 04, 2012, 12:22 AM
This chapter was worth waiting for, hats off to Sting and Rogue they're really pushing Natsu and Gajeel.. 'Dragon Force' I wonder what this?? It seems natsu and gajeel are just waiting to see them use all their full strengths on them before ending them.. i just hope FT can pick up the victory at the end cause gajeel and natsu still havent used their full power on them yet. Next week is bound to be epic I CANNOT WAIT. but this dragon force magic seem to have worried a few faces. hope natsu and gajeel will be able to handle it..

Epic chapter. well done mashima

llamapie
August 04, 2012, 12:31 AM
Not sure if serious or trolling.

That GUY on tenrou island is the Whole point of the show. *facepalm*

"Zeref". Not convinced since it wasn't the first time someone has pointed out as Zeref and it wasn't true. And Zeref is just part of the point to the story. He'll clearly have something to do with the 777 thing and the dragons and the fact that natsu is a lot older than he realizes.

I had the sense that Rogue was the same person, they had the same lax personality and looked similar, Rogue being the older version of course. But no its clear to me they aren't related now, considering Rogue seems much weaker and whoever that was on Tenrou would kill anything he touched. He even summoned a Dragon, come on now.

crimsonlink310
August 04, 2012, 12:36 AM
This chapter is giving a lot of support to my theory that 1st gen dragon force is more powerful than the other gen dragon force modes.

The reason I say that is because activating a superior power at will is going to be weaker than a power activated with help from an external powerful magical force aka Etherion and Flames of Rebuke.

Dragon force has always been a mystery for the most part and Natsu has only managed to do it twice with Jellal's help both times lol. The first time indirectly and the 2nd time he fed the flames to Natsu.

Laxus and Cobra have gone Dragon force before imo when they grew scales and had increased power but the power up was very weak because it was self activated.

So in theory, Natsu and Gajeel could activate their own weaker Dragon force powers without an external force like Etherion nearby but they haven't learned how.

Sting and Rouge probably have the Lacrima from their dead dragon parents in their body, that would be a great motivator to enrage Natsu and Gajeel to fight harder.

As for Lector and Sting chapter title, I hope that Sting's dragon is shown at the very least and the next chapter after that will be Rouge and Frosh.

I don't mind flashback chapters to break the fight for now as long as things are explained in a concise manner.

jacke12
August 04, 2012, 12:38 AM
Dragon force it looks good on Sting and Rogue but I have been thinking did Natsu fully awaken DF against Jellal and Zero. Also would be cool if there is Fire and Iron drive

SerpentTailedAngel
August 04, 2012, 12:45 AM
Laxus and Cobra have gone Dragon force before imo when they grew scales and had increased power but the power up was very weak because it was self activated.

Gajeel has also grown scales, but he called that a specific technique. I don't think the scales alone are enough indication. No one flipped out over Cobra's power level when he went DS either.

Grizz
August 04, 2012, 12:53 AM
Natsu and Gajeel look surprised but i dont think they will panick. they've faced mages with far stronger magical power.. sting and rogue shouldn't faze them.. I would love to see the extending results of natsu and gajeels training. i dont think they have been serious yet..

Ero-Sanji
August 04, 2012, 12:55 AM
Isn't it quite interesting that in this chapter Natsu and Gajeel used the least amount of DS magic, in like ever? I mean Gajeel hasn't even put on his iron skin... Hopefully the next chapter will be more bombastic in that they use a lot more of their own element to counter and attack Sting and Rogue. Also, another thing that is quite interesting is the emphasizing regarding Sting which more or less puts Rouge in his shadows.

Chris38
August 04, 2012, 02:49 AM
Well, considering how much buildup the fight against Sting and Rouge had got, and, at least in my opinion, Mashima has actually delivered what some fans have been expecting, which is a quite exciting match, and at least for now, one of the better fights this tournament arc had so far.

So considering the fact that the entire Eclipse event and Lucy's role in it, has even more build up then the fight against Sting and Rouge, and that, we will most likely get another teasing moment about the "Eclipse Gate" as soon as the battle between Gajeel and Natsu against Sting and Rouge end, or a chapter after that, I'm kind of expecting that something even more exciting and hopefully, "plot changing" is going to occur on the fated day.

Although, this chapter made me somehow wonder, in the premonition from chapter 175, it has been clearly stated that one of the things Carla saw, has been a "White Knight", and considering the fact that Sting is a White Dragon Slayer, do you think that it's possible, that he will have some role to play in the 7th day events, or do you think that "the White Knight" is going to be a character that hasn't been introduced yet ?

RaveDragon
August 04, 2012, 02:49 AM
I am meliting with excitement. Voted Epic since it's quite a well balanced battle (towards the end) and I really needed to see Sting punched in the face repeatedly. Never thought Natsu would use Rogue to attack Sting and it made me realise just how angry he was at ST!!!

(also a little part of me melted in fangirlyness when Luvcy muttered Natsu~ in her sleep :blush)

kidopitz27
August 04, 2012, 03:20 AM
i hope the DF mode is not like in naruto where if you looked liked a dragon it's not a perfect DF while the perfect DF will have the dragon eyes:P

Sting and Rouge are really trying hard in that fight those 2 have not yet notice that Natsu and Gajeel are not even using their special skills :) like Yajima said the "Gap on power is big" :)

dark angel KaRamo
August 04, 2012, 03:31 AM
Now this is a fairy tail fight so damn epic and it's just getting started, shadow and holy light are very cool powers.
Now on to this chapter to me at normal DS level Natsu & Gajeel are stronger. but as far as i can see they bout weren't even trying there best and Natsu and Gajeel still got a far lead on them on till the white and shadow drive and then Dragon Force. Now Sting & Rogue's white drive and shadow drive just cough them off guard cause when they realize they just started beating them again. It's like Natsu & Gajeel say the new mode and wear just seeing if it live up to the boasting of Sting saying (now i'll show you the power that kills Dragons), and when they saw that it wasn't they got back to pummeling them, but the real fight begins now Dragon force damn it's gonna rock even the first master of fairy tail looked surprise of Sting and Rogue just activating Dragon Force so effortlessly. Still Natsu & Gajeel still haven't use there full powers yet Natsu's Thunder Flame Dragon mode. Also Natsu and Gajeel just might push out Dragon Force too to completely show them how powerful they are now yeah show your dragon scales, also Gajeel Has powers that he's not using yet he got sick on transportation so he has more skills to show. Next weeks chapter is gonna be sweat. (Let the power of your guild guide you to victory).

Thunder Flame Dragon ROAR!!!!!!!!!!

Sollum
August 04, 2012, 04:17 AM
That was hilarious!

I am not sure how i want Natsu and Gajeel to win...

Natsu going apeshit with Fire Dragons God mode or Both of them activating Dragon Force.

Shadow Limiter
August 04, 2012, 04:36 AM
That was a good chapter. And from the title of the next chapter i get the feeling that we would be getting some back story about Sting and most likely the fight would not end next chapter, it would most likely continue till ch 296 or ch 297.

Chris38
August 04, 2012, 04:49 AM
Well, I doubt that the current fight between Sting and Rouge vs Natsu and Gajeel will take such a long time as 4 chapters to resolve.

After all, the tag battle event, certainly won't be the last event of the tournament, since there is still the unknown 6th day event ahead of us, and the other fights against the ST members that have been hinted in the previous chapters are obviously going to occur on that day, along with a Sting vs Natsu and Gajeel vs Rouge rematch.

For that reason, Mashima obviously won't show us the entire capabilities of Rouge and Sting in the current tag battle event, since if that would be the case, then the last day event, at least when it comes to Sting and Rouge would be a little boring. That's why I believe that in the next chapter, after we see some bits and pieces of Sting's and maybe Rouge's past, the battle will end, with a draw, and the conclusion of the fight between FT and ST will be left to resolve , during the last game event, along with who's going to be the winner of the current GMG festival.

At least I have a strong suspicion that Mashima will end the current tag battle with a draw, and the conclusion of the Sting vs Natsu and Gajeel vs Rouge confrontation will be left, for the final day event.

kidopitz27
August 04, 2012, 05:19 AM
i just read the mangastream translation and Gajeel don't know DF :) he just said what kind of magic force is that?

i think the next chapter is a flashback but that flashback will happen when both of Sting and Rouge got knocked out/before they close their eyes(fainting)

Freid
August 04, 2012, 06:09 AM
I didn't think Sting and Rogue were all that impressive. I did enjoy the ass whooping though, but it kinda felt too easy. Anyway, Sting in DF mode looks like Gohan ssj2, but that's irrelevant.

Sachsenhesse
August 04, 2012, 06:12 AM
kinda disappointing but epic for natsu and gajeel

they power up just to get bashed once again and now the next power up, we will see how this will work out :/

Impossibility
August 04, 2012, 06:14 AM
Just read the chapter, I was overwhelmed by the awesomeness, First, shadow and holy is nice. Sting & Rogue appear to have some interesting DS abilities. But, they just got wrecked. I wasn't expecting something so ridiculously one-sided. Natsu & Gajeel have barely used any of their DS abilities. They just appear to be on completely different levels. Curious to see if Natsu & Gajeel are going to bring out DF to finish Rogue & Sting off. To be honest, it seems as though they could win without the use of DF at this point. Wondering what's the deal with Mavis again. Great action, epic chapter.

HaiSuShi
August 04, 2012, 06:49 AM
Only thing I didn't understand is how Natsu was blocking Holy Nova. Did he just deflect or used his own flames?

AWESOME chapter btw.

BlackHair
August 04, 2012, 06:57 AM
Honestly I thought this week was already over. I had totally forget about FT. Then there I see a FT update on mangareader, expecting nothing but another showy and uninteresting chapter. But there goes Mashima, BoooooM! He totally owned me in the face. This chapter was damn awesome. Nothing more to say.

hakuthehedgehog
August 04, 2012, 07:17 AM
I expected more from Sting and Rogue, or I had my healthy dose of one-sided beatdown by Laxus.

Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait for the next chapter.

MyuuMyuu
August 04, 2012, 07:47 AM
Not one voted for this chapter to be less than 'good', most voted epic. I must say its a LONG time since i read a shounen manga chapter on THIS level (e.g naruto, bleach, etc)

bskbob
August 04, 2012, 08:05 AM
payback is a b**** must be the ass whooping of the year so far! can't wait for round 2.

ILikeSleeping
August 04, 2012, 08:05 AM
I have to say, it's about damn time Sabertooth got the trashing they deserved.

This chapter was awesome to say the least. Although I would have liked for Natsu and Gajeel to have shown off more of their powers but this is good too. This way really shows how different the power levels are between Natsu+Gajeel and Sting+Rogue. I absolutely loved how Natsu and Gajeel completely knocked the arrogance right off Sting and Rogue and then just completely wiped the floor with them. I cannot EVEN express how much I enjoyed every bit of the reactions everyone had from the speechless crowd to the shocked Sabertooth team members as they watched Natsu and Gajeel trash their supposed strongest members. By god. if I was a sadist, I would be having an orgasm right now.

Although I have to admit, Sting and Rogue have pretty cool dragon slayer elements but that's about the only (actually not at all) redeemable thing about them. My predictions for next chapter, as is probably everyone else's: Sting and Rogue start winning. And being that the next chapter is titled Sting and Lector, we'll get a flashback to their relationship early on. But then Natsu and Gajeel finally get serious and then once again, completely own Sting and Rogue.

Although knowing Mashima, with his reputation for doing the unexpected (I can name COUNTLESS times when I read one chapter, make a mental prediction of what will happen next chapter, and then get completely blown away with someone entirely different), anything could happen.

Definitely pumped as hell for the next chapter.

ScottH87
August 04, 2012, 08:36 AM
So good. Oh so good. Oh so gooooooooooooooooooooood.

Ok so they were Light and Shadow. Cliched but solid. It will be interesting to see how they eat light and shade though.

This fight is just warming up. Glad its happening this way, with Natdu and Gajeel taking an early lead with Sting and Rogue having to make up some ground, its makes Sabertooth look falibale but doesnt take anything away from what makes them the strongest guild in Fiore at the moment.

Ofcourse it doesnt matter if they use Dragon Force or not, this match can only end in a draw or Fairy Tail victory.

Next chapter I'm looking forward to some combo attacks from Sting and Rogue, ending with Natsu and Gajeel pulling out the Namaka card ready for them to finish the job in chapter 296.

dafuq
August 04, 2012, 08:38 AM
awesomeness over 9000 for this chapter.
i expected gajeel and natsu have hard times on dealing with sting and rogue but it was exact opposite.
i mean gajeel and natsu not even serious.
gajeel didnt used his iron scales at all just used his iron sword nothing more i expected rogue should be stronger than that cause his ds magic and his appereance on it looking badass but he trashed like nothing by gajeel who is not even used his magic other than that natsu vs sting was cool especially that blocking white nova punch part.sting has deserved that ass beating for a long time anyway cant wait for next week chapter and looking forward for gajeel doing more i mean mashima just focusing on natsu, gajeel deserved more screen time really.

tobeulp
August 04, 2012, 08:41 AM
This chapter is beyond epic because mainly of the buildup last few chapters specially the Lucy being beaten badly.... I love how Mashima portray new technique after new technique for Rogue and Sting and even their Master is saying this will be over even the audience thinks this way but Natsu and Gajeel deflecting it like a boss.. And you can see the Audience reaction had huge effects on how we view regarding the fight.

There is many great things that can be said about this chapter I hope Kishi will get a few things from this regards to building up a story you can't just skip a fight in the middle and switch scenes just to portray your favorite character it loses the purpose of building a story this way.

RaveDragon
August 04, 2012, 09:03 AM
i think mashima wanted to give us the satisfaction of see that stings smirk whipped off his face :hee i do think natsu and gajeel will win though, they look confident and fresh, i do expect some damage from sting and rogue but im curious of what he could have possibly promised lector and if it has to do with this arc.

yellowblue
August 04, 2012, 09:19 AM
Epic chapter. The chapter is so great that it feels like Mashima will have at least 2 weeks vacation. I really hope not.

My prediction, the two FT DS will get badly beaten and some flashback (seems like a requirement). Gajeel will eat the dragon force reinforced shadow flame as a gamble and have his dragon force activated. Natsu on the other hand can just use his Lightning Flame Dragon Mode. Though it will be way cooler if Natsu will eat Sting's holy flame and activate a Holy Flame Dragon mode similar to what happened after Natsu ate Laxus lightning. Since Natsu already have a second origin he should be able to handle Lighting/Holy Flame Dragon Mode better than before.

Lost0
August 04, 2012, 09:23 AM
Did they really kill a Dragon with that level of power:facepalm ? Lol they have to be lying ? They must've kill a dragon with aids of something :pwned

Could you Imagine if they had to fight Erza and Laxus instead of Natsu and Gajeel ? They'd be dead:epicfacepalm

Hahhahahaha Strongest Guild my ass. They only super strong ones I've seen are Minerva and Rufus .

Sting and Rogue are all hype so far, maybe they'll prove me wrong later. But I doubt it.

On the next Topic, do anybody else feel bad for Orga when he has to fight Laxus ?

RaveDragon
August 04, 2012, 10:39 AM
^no I want laxus to kick his ass and make him take back that smirk :kukuku he has no escape!

Chris38
August 04, 2012, 11:27 AM
^no I want laxus to kick his ass and make him take back that smirk :kukuku he has no escape!

I agree, pretty much each member of the ST guild, deserves some humiliating or embarrassing defeat, to re compensate for everything they have done in this arc so far.

The only one, who I would put as an exception, is Rouge who, at least so far, doesn't seem to fit with the jerkassness that the rest of his guild demonstrate.

But for the rest, the correct term is NO MERCY, since a humiliating defeat would maybe open their eyes to their own behavior, and actually make them a better guild in the end, though the probability of something like that occurring is pretty small.

Buggy
August 04, 2012, 11:44 AM
^You are right, Rogue seems very different than the rest of them, he hasn't taken part in any of their wicked games and has question Sabertooth's actions number of times. He is absent even here http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/292/4 not standing up against Fairy Tail. In the fight though he acts seriously and appears to be doing his best, which speaks of him as a decent and professional guy.

I've noticed as well that Natsu and Gajeel used very little of their DS magic, resorting to simple punches and kicks mostly. Using their most powerful techniques like http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/259/7 and http://www.mangareader.net/135-58826-14/fairy-tail/chapter-212.html which Gajeel probably has a stronger version now their victory is assured. Don't think they will have to activate their dragon force even (don't know if they can do it at will now).

kidopitz27
August 04, 2012, 11:44 AM
pretty much ST is like the new fishman pirates in OP and FT is just using them to show off their skills after their training :)


Could you Imagine if they had to fight Erza and Laxus instead of Natsu and Gajeel ?

also you have to add Gildarts if you could just imagine Gildarts over there it's like FT is 200% will won that tournament hahahaha
(imagine if Erza challenge 100 monster and got bruised all over her body imagine Gildarts standing there )

lawlett-kun
August 04, 2012, 12:12 PM
yeah sting and rogue are pretty weak so far. The only thing i fear is that there respective abilities, light and shadow, Yin and yang thingy.I wonder if when they use DF they like unite there powers.Thats the only way i can imagine them killing a dragon.But even though they are weak i really liked the amount and type of spells Sting has.We know natsu is strong, would like some more badassasness from Gajeel plz

zerocooldx
August 04, 2012, 12:31 PM
On a side note, i wonder if Sting could eat Fairy Glitter. DS's can eat their own element, FG is light magic and Sting's DS magic utilizes light. It would be very interesting and it might have something to do with the text at the end of the chapter where it stated that Mavis would be involved in this somehow.

lawlett-kun
August 04, 2012, 12:37 PM
On a side note, i wonder if Sting could eat Fairy Glitter. DS's can eat their own element, FG is light magic and Sting's DS magic utilizes light. It would be very interesting and it might have something to do with the text at the end of the chapter where it stated that Mavis would be involved in this somehow.

Imo that light is too strong for him, like natsu couldnt eat lack flames at first.And mavis was commenting every chapter so far.

zerocooldx
August 04, 2012, 01:19 PM
Imo that light is too strong for him, like natsu couldnt eat lack flames at first.And mavis was commenting every chapter so far.

If Cana can use Fairy Glitter then Sting should definitely be able to eat it and use it himself if given the opportunity. Its not about the power of the magic but the power of the user that makes a magic great, this was roughly stated by Bluenote in concerns to Fairy Glitter. Also Natsu and the black flame is a different story because God Slayers are said to be "above" Dragon Slayers hence the reason why he cannot eat the black flame. And i was talking about the end of the chapter text where Mashima i suppose states that Mavis will be tested or whatever along with Natsu and Gajeel.

John 92
August 04, 2012, 01:23 PM
i think you guys are underestimating sting and rouge,they are strong but natsu and gajeel are stronger because they have more experience,sting and rouge became the "strongest" only recently so they are practically noobs and still have a lot to learn and compared to natsu and gajeel in their early days sting and rouge are definitely better

Devx10
August 04, 2012, 01:28 PM
Natsu and Gajeel were frozen for seven years. They did not age during that period, considering that both Sting and Rogue are roughly the same age as Natsu and Gajeel.

Shinhokou
August 04, 2012, 01:35 PM
Hello everyone , first post in MH for me . First i'd like to say I like fairy tail alot and this chapter's been the one I was waiting for the most anxiously ever since last friday.
I mean come on who wasn't ^^. I liked it the chapter but even though it was an epic fight I still had a few problems with it.
First of all from what I've read in the previous comments everyone was expecting sabertooth to more or less get trashed...To be honest I was pretty surprised to see them get beat up. I don't think Sabertooth is all show and no go we've already had Raven Tail kick the bucket , so honestly I was hoping they would dish out alot more pain to Natsu and Gajeel , it just seems too early for them to be a match for ST. Even that little old man is pretty distraught at the fact they're getting such a beat up. I don't think 2nd origin and 3 months of training could possibly make them this much stronger and it seems to me that such a powerup (especially for Natsu) was quite weird.I expected him to lose this battle , train very hard and do better next time.
Sabertooth needs more hate against them its too early for them to get beat up this bad , fairy tail needs to get stronger if they are too face Acnologia , Zeref , and before Natsu appears before Igneel , and free powerups isn't my idea of that.
Even so I still hope Dragon Force will make Natsu and Gajeel struggle. Even if Sting and Rogue's dragons we're weak (I really think they we're weaker than igneel and zeref) they should still beat Natsu and Gajeel this time around.
A theory I have is that igneel is boosting Natsu and Gajeel's power to test out Sting and Rogue , thats how i'd explain a change of this magnitude in the two's power.Gemma who felt Natsu's power was still confident sting would beat him early on in the fight without Dragon Force , so i can't see how Natsu could have gotten stronger from the time he fought Gemma to his battle with Sting.
I was thinking the only way Natsu would win is if he had snapped and really tried to kill Sting and Rogue , that would've been quite a development .
Peace!

John 92
August 04, 2012, 01:56 PM
what!? who voted bad,show yourself!

anyway,i agree with shinhokou on one thing,i thought natsu and gajeel were gonna lose the tag battle and win on the final day in the massive battle

El Maco
August 04, 2012, 01:58 PM
i think you guys are underestimating sting and rouge,they are strong but natsu and gajeel are stronger because they have more experience,sting and rouge became the "strongest" only recently so they are practically noobs and still have a lot to learn and compared to natsu and gajeel in their early days sting and rouge are definitely better

As the saying goes: "age and treachery will defeat youth and skill".

Except that here everything is mixed :
Natsu and Gajeel have age and skill, whereas Sting and Rogue have treachery and youth. -_-

Buggy
August 04, 2012, 02:03 PM
^There is also the saying: "The next generation will always surpass the previous one".

Don't remember where I heard that:P

El Maco
August 04, 2012, 02:36 PM
Since Gajeel doesn't know DragonForce and Natsu is the only one in FT to have experience with it, this could end in a draw.
So, here's my cheap prediction: Gajeel will come to Natsu's defence to secure victory for Natsu but lose his own match.

RaveDragon
August 04, 2012, 02:38 PM
^ i think a draw now and a win later would be good, that way ft could win the tournament

shnugin
August 04, 2012, 02:45 PM
^There is also the saying: "The next generation will always surpass the previous one".

Don't remember where I heard that:P


Thats from Naruto

liductan
August 04, 2012, 03:18 PM
So, the next chapter is mostly going to focus on sting, I don't think he's such a bad person. I find him to be a stereotypical bully, someone who put others down to feel better about himself. Probably because he's been through some crap, he didn't like, and doesn't want to re live those moments again. Maybe, that could be one of the reasons why he became strong, (from his point of view). I am more interested Rogue than sting, so I hope we get at least some info, he can't stay in the shadows all the time.
Overall, nice chapter!

Expletivebmp
August 04, 2012, 04:53 PM
These guys are going to break some form of magical seal or barrier or perhaps their battle will reawaken some ancient evil or demon from way back when, or maybe it's going to merge Fairy Tail with another realm that is inhabited by demons and dragons (something similar happened in Urosukidoji, but for the love of all that is holy do not watch urotsukidoji) I say this because we're all assuming that some one will lose or give up when we know that these Dragon slayers tend to keep fighting until they're either dead or unconscious. And at their power levels, and for each side to keep fighting until, then Zerif and the dragons probably won't be disappointed with whatever happens when they release that much power.

edit: Maybe Natsu is as old as Zerif,or is a harbringer of something sinister. maybe dragon slayers are in fact dragons who through the birth cycle (rinne) were reborn as humans, and maybe this battle reawakens their former lives. Maybe this battle enables the dragons and zerif to get access to the celestials.

Masterpice
August 04, 2012, 06:48 PM
i am glad this fight turned out to be epic, i am hoping natsu and gajeel can also envoke dragon force!!!

i am gonna be pissed if FT loses this fight

It won't happen in this fight...Looking at the power difference They would kill them. They're still going to win...BTW. What happened with Gaajel Iron Body mode? Sorry for not official name I just don't remember what was that...I thought it was his Dragon Force but why wouldn't he be able to go into this mode now?

---------- Post added at 05:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------

I hope that epicness won't go away next week with something like a draw...Let's be frank here...All they did was one techniqe and mostly hand to hand combat[I'm writing about FT of course]...Now it's time to destroy sabretooth with techniques...I want to see look on their master's face when they'll get schooled...They have to loose sooner or later because Sting and Rogue will join FT. So I don't see any problem with taking them down sooner.

Kuza
August 04, 2012, 07:32 PM
Dont forget that last day probably will be some sort of battle or competition where all members of all team will possibly participate, in this case the scores would be spread like 10 8 6 etc, and if they draw now FT will have to be 1 in last day and ST last, what is not likely to happen with guild like quatro puppy xD SO now they must win and last day come first and ST second..

NAM61
August 04, 2012, 07:49 PM
i dont think natsu and gajeel will use DF to fight sting and rogue they would be to powerful. in their normal form natsu and gajeel outclassed rogue and sting the difference in power seemed to much. imagine them in DF there power would go up insanely they would destroy sting and rogue.

---------- Post added at 06:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

now i understand why the author had Gildarts leave before the tournament there would be no challenge for FT. one thing i really want to see is erza demolish minerva she is annoying and an ass. she needs to get beat and bad.

---------- Post added at 06:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 PM ----------


Well, I doubt that the current fight between Sting and Rouge vs Natsu and Gajeel will take such a long time as 4 chapters to resolve.

After all, the tag battle event, certainly won't be the last event of the tournament, since there is still the unknown 6th day event ahead of us, and the other fights against the ST members that have been hinted in the previous chapters are obviously going to occur on that day, along with a Sting vs Natsu and Gajeel vs Rouge rematch.

For that reason, Mashima obviously won't show us the entire capabilities of Rouge and Sting in the current tag battle event, since if that would be the case, then the last day event, at least when it comes to Sting and Rouge would be a little boring. That's why I believe that in the next chapter, after we see some bits and pieces of Sting's and maybe Rouge's past, the battle will end, with a draw, and the conclusion of the fight between FT and ST will be left to resolve , during the last game event, along with who's going to be the winner of the current GMG festival.

At least I have a strong suspicion that Mashima will end the current tag battle with a draw, and the conclusion of the Sting vs Natsu and Gajeel vs Rouge confrontation will be left, for the final day event.

i really dubt now that we will get to a 6th and 7th day i think the dragons will appear soon canceling the tournament. so i expect sting ans rogue to go down this fight

Airgrimes
August 04, 2012, 09:20 PM
Just wanted to say I totally appreciate the like... 30+pgs we got man.
http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/294/19

This page was silly epic. Of all the years ive been reading FT, this chapter was just amazing.

kkck
August 04, 2012, 09:46 PM
To be honest I am wondering about the dragon drive spells. Is it something all DS can do? Why haven't natsu and gajeel shown this? Or perhaps they have but they have not named it? When pissed off natsu fights with his entire body covered in flames and during the phantom arc gajeel used his DS magic to cover himself in metal scales. Perhaps those were the iron and fire drives?

---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

About the theory of lector having some sort of issue with the exceed mission to murder DSs.... I don't think that makes sense. There was never any such mission and there is no reason for him to have ever heard about it. Unless of course he has the same power as charle and got confused...

THM Nindo
August 04, 2012, 09:47 PM
what!? who voted bad,show yourself!

You can see who voted what.
Those polls are public.

Magnus is the one that voted bad.


anyway,i agree with shinhokou on one thing,i thought natsu and gajeel were gonna lose the tag battle and win on the final day in the massive battle

Well, now that Sting and Rogue are going to show their Ultimate Power, it would be quite anti-climatic if the would still lose...

But I guess Mashima is use to do anti-climatic stuff (Raven Tail being defeated in a few panels by Laxus)... I mean, it was epic, but still very anti-climatic.

I have a hard time seeing this fight being Natsu and Gajeel victory...
To make the last fight so much meaningful, it would need to end by either their loss, or the best scenario in my opinion, a draw.

kkck
August 04, 2012, 10:02 PM
Well, the issue is that without gajeel and natsu scoring a proper victory they would have virtually no chance of winning the games. The last day is a game where all 5 members participate. Wouldn't that entail that points will be awarded based on their position in the game? If FT wins this then the scores would be like this:
FT 45
ST 44
LS 40
MH 40
BP 30
QP 15


Basically the final game would determine the winner from among 4 potential winners. FT, ST, LS and MH could all potentially win the games depending on the results. In turn if ST wins this then they have 54 points and FT is left with 35. It would be plain impossible for FT to catch up with the current scoring system even assuming only 1 team makes points here. Just consider this for the final games with the scoring system we have seen. FT would be in the lead however if ST wins and FT is second the scores would be 53 for FT and 54 for sabertooth. Of course mashima could change the scoring system but if ST wins it would have to be changed to the equivalent of quiddich thus making every other game played so far by all intents and purposes useless.

Xguard
August 04, 2012, 11:21 PM
I'm sure Natsu and Gajeel will be overwhelmed next chapter. It's an easily guessing pattern.

But the match will not be decided until the end of chapter yet. The 2-next chapter will be the tenacity toward victory for both Natsu and Gajeel.
And after that maybe the incident will happen and cause the match is not decided!!!

Chris38
August 04, 2012, 11:52 PM
I'm sure Natsu and Gajeel will be overwhelmed next chapter. It's an easily guessing pattern.

But the match will not be decided until the end of chapter yet. The 2-next chapter will be the tenacity toward victory for both Natsu and Gajeel.
And after that maybe the incident will happen and cause the match is not decided!!!

Incident ? If you mean the whole Eclipse Gate plan, or Lucy's kidnapping, it's too early for both of those things to happen.

There are still 3 days remaining till the fated day, and I believe that Lucy is going to be kidnapped on the 6th day, during the 5 team members event, and pretty soon, after that particular event is close to it's ending or has already ended and Fairy Tail has already realized that Lucy is gone (probably on midnight, between the sixth day ending and the beginning of the seventh day) the Eclipse Gate will start being opened, and after that we will see the premonition from chapter 275, become a reality.

The reason, why I believe that both of those events are going to be so close to each other, is naturally caused by the fact that Fairy Tail wouldn't be able to prevent the Eclipse gate from being opened, even if Carla tells the rest of her guild members, about her most recent premonition, as soon as she realizes that Lucy has disappeared.

kidopitz27
August 05, 2012, 01:14 AM
next chapter will be Natsu and Gajeel verge of losing because of the DF and then Natsu will just say the it's just getting started and Natsu and Gajeel release a powerful magical aura that made Sting and Rouge afraid of them and then the time is up and it will be a draw.....

shuha27
August 05, 2012, 01:23 AM
I thought Sting doesn't fight for his nakama so why is it that all of a sudden he is trying to win for Lector? Natsu and Gajeel better win! Sabertooth is such an annoying guild they deserve to be humiliated! I really wish Lucy was there so she could see Natsu and Gajeel pushing them to their edge XD

NAM61
August 05, 2012, 01:34 AM
You can see who voted what.
Those polls are public.

Magnus is the one that voted bad.



Well, now that Sting and Rogue are going to show their Ultimate Power, it would be quite anti-climatic if the would still lose...

But I guess Mashima is use to do anti-climatic stuff (Raven Tail being defeated in a few panels by Laxus)... I mean, it was epic, but still very anti-climatic.

I have a hard time seeing this fight being Natsu and Gajeel victory...
To make the last fight so much meaningful, it would need to end by either their loss, or the best scenario in my opinion, a draw.

i dont think natsu and gajeel will lose because i think the tournament will get uninterrupted by the dragons and there wont be a 6th or 7th day so ST losing now would make perfect sense. doubt natsu and gajeel will lose after lucy almost got killed and sting made fun of them. natsua nd gajeel were way above them in their normal form that it seemed they were not even trying. so i doubt sting and rogue will be much stronger then natsu and gajeel even with DF. since natsu still has his lightning mode and they have not tried as hard which it seemed this chapter

Chris38
August 05, 2012, 01:57 AM
i dont think natsu and gajeel will lose because i think the tournament will get uninterrupted by the dragons and there wont be a 6th or 7th day so ST losing now would make perfect sense. doubt natsu and gajeel will lose after lucy almost got killed and sting made fun of them. natsua nd gajeel were way above them in their normal form that it seemed they were not even trying. so i doubt sting and rogue will be much stronger then natsu and gajeel even with DF. since natsu still has his lightning mode and they have not tried as hard which it seemed this chapter

The last game event, is going to occur on the 6th day - and I doubt that's going to be interrupted by the dragons, who,if they are even going to appear in the current arc, will most likely appear on the 7th day, because any other option will most likely, cause those teasing moments about the other ST member fights to not make any sense:

http://i35.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/292/fairy-tail-3465565.jpg

http://i3.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/292/fairy-tail-3465567.jpg

after all, based upon the previous arcs / chapters Mashima hasn't been trolling us, when it comes to foreshadowing battles, that might occur in the future chapters.

tobeulp
August 05, 2012, 02:12 AM
Can anyone confirm that there is no chapter next week because Jump is on a break next week don't know if it is the same with FT

DEATHBOTT
August 05, 2012, 02:19 AM
dragon force gave natsu the power to defeat one of the ten wizard saints and the lacrima inside sting and rouge might make it even more potent. but then natsu hasnt even brought out his crimson lotus moves let alone his lightning powered ones and gajeel is yet to use his karma demon spells so the fairy dragons still have lots to fall back on.

Chris38
August 05, 2012, 02:23 AM
Can anyone confirm that there is no chapter next week because Jump is on a break next week don't know if it is the same with FT

Well, the current chapter is released in a double magazine issue:

http://kc.kodansha.co.jp/magazine/index.php/02065/next

Based upon that, I assume that in the next week we won't get any chapter.

Masterpice
August 05, 2012, 03:44 AM
I know it would be too much but I would love to see Natsu and Gajeel still taking them down with ease...Everyone would know that with members like Natsu, Gajeel, Laxus and Erza Fairy Tail is the best guild.

P.S I like when main characters win and are overpowered sometimes because I have enough of main character bashing with Naruto.

RaveDragon
August 05, 2012, 04:22 AM
I thought Sting doesn't fight for his nakama so why is it that all of a sudden he is trying to win for Lector? Natsu and Gajeel better win! Sabertooth is such an annoying guild they deserve to be humiliated! I really wish Lucy was there so she could see Natsu and Gajeel pushing them to their edge XD

Maybe she'll pop up in the end when Natsu gives the finishing blow because i'd love her to see her guild getting revenge for her and all of Fairy Tail!

---------- Post added at 09:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 AM ----------


Can anyone confirm that there is no chapter next week because Jump is on a break next week don't know if it is the same with FT


Well, the current chapter is released in a double magazine issue:

http://kc.kodansha.co.jp/magazine/index.php/02065/next

Based upon that, I assume that in the next week we won't get any chapter.

fairy Tail is not in Jump it is in the weekly shonen magazine and there was nothing written about a break at the end of th chapter this week, usually there would be written there that it would be on break, so i don't think so.

masgrande
August 05, 2012, 06:08 AM
Is Sting really using light? I think his powers might be closer to holy type since he used a stigmata and called it a holy attack, also if his power was light they would just have called him light df instead of white df just like Rogue is a shadow df and not black df.

Razh
August 05, 2012, 06:40 AM
Damn, I've got one hell of a hangover, but this chapter just bitchslapped it the fuck away.

Ok, so Sting and Rogue just went all in. I'm not sure how big the power boost is going to be or how much more damage they can do, considering Natsu just blocked Sting's secret art without a scratch.

And omg this chapter was epic!!!

Rarhyx
August 05, 2012, 07:01 AM
I think the last time I was this excited reading a chapter was when... erm it was... I think it was when Naruto fought Pain, and thats like >2 years ago

tobeulp
August 05, 2012, 08:09 AM
fairy Tail is not in Jump it is in the weekly shonen magazine and there was nothing written about a break at the end of th chapter this week, usually there would be written there that it would be on break, so i don't think so.

I know it is not on jump... I think Weekly Shonen Sunday also is on break and base on Red Hawk Scans Kimi no Iru Machi on break also and it is on the same magazine(base on wikipedia) as FT Weekly shonen I am confuse if it will be the same on Weekly shonen I hope only Kimi no Iru machi is the only one on break not the whole Weekly shonen magazine

Rarhyx
August 05, 2012, 08:19 AM
Some kittens will die if I don't get next week a FT chapter -___

lawlett-kun
August 05, 2012, 09:10 AM
Some kittens will die if I don't get next week a FT chapter -___

lector is al yours...

But srsly i hope we will have a chapter.But then again a bit of suspense is not bad at all

RaveDragon
August 05, 2012, 09:22 AM
I know it is not on jump... I think Weekly Shonen Sunday also is on break and base on Red Hawk Scans Kimi no Iru Machi on break also and it is on the same magazine(base on wikipedia) as FT Weekly shonen I am confuse if it will be the same on Weekly shonen I hope only Kimi no Iru machi is the only one on break not the whole Weekly shonen magazine

Then it might be just that one because they usually write on the last page that the series will go on break on all mangas then again i am not too sure bec. if the whole mag goes on break i don't know

Krono
August 05, 2012, 09:55 AM
fairy Tail is not in Jump it is in the weekly shonen magazine and there was nothing written about a break at the end of th chapter this week, usually there would be written there that it would be on break, so i don't think so.

I'm guessing you didn't look at the link he posted? That's the "next issue" page for Weekly Shounen Magazine, and it's currently showing the issue that chapter 294 will run in. It officially comes out on 8/8, and will be issue #36-37. The double issue number meaning that there will be no issue released on 8/15, and issue #38 won't be released until 8/22.

Shadoguardian
August 05, 2012, 11:02 AM
Personal Prediction on Tag DS Fight:

Rogue and Sting start trashing the Fairy Tail Dragon Slayers.
At some point, Chapati mentions that a barrier encircles the arena, and they've set it up that day after discovering Raven Tail cheating the previous day. No magic or person can go in or out of it.
Natsu and Gajeel get up and unleash their own trump card, Natsu with Lightning Flame Dragon Mode, Gajeel with either a dual element Dragon Mode, a boost in power after eating something (like a rare metal he has mined) or using his own Dragon Force.
They then either start trashing the Sabertooth Dragon Slayers, or fight on even ground.
The match then ends in one of two ways:


It's a draw. Rogue and Sting managing to somehow stand even after being trashed, and the time runs out, with Natsu and Gajeel stopping just as they were about to deliver a finishing blow.
It's Fairy Tail's win. After Sting and Rogue use Dragon Drive to boost their Dragon Force, all four Dragon Slayers use a Roar attack at each other. However the Fairy Tail DS Roars not only overpower Sabertooth's, it breaks the aforementioned barrier and causes damage to the stadium.



Aftermath:

Whether Sabertooth wins, loses or draws, Jiemma is pissed.
He wants to punish Rogue and Sting, but doesn't want to expel them, as they are two of his strongest, and he needs all 5 for the last event.
Jiemma then threatens their Exceed, and states that if they do not win the next days event, all 4 of them will be expelled.

Devx10
August 05, 2012, 12:03 PM
I still think that the only possible outcome is FT winning. If they lose they are down 19 points, which means that they cant win the tournament, because they would have to get 20 points in the next round while ST gets 0 points, so thats unlikely. If its a draw then FT is still down 9 points meaning that in the last event, still assuming its worth 20 points (cause its the last event so stakes are probably higher), they have to beat ST by 10 points which again is still unlikely ,unless its all or nothing with one team getting all the points. Now if they win FT is up by 1 point which makes it a must win for both teams. IMO this is the most logical and would be the best outcome of the fight.

Marche
August 05, 2012, 01:45 PM
In the next chapter we will see some flashback about Sting and Lector’s relationship.
In that flashback http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/294/38 Lector was crying.
I don’t know if that was their first meeting or if the two already knew each other.
Anyways from that imagine I believe that Lector was bullied by someone, so Sting proposed him to stay with him, because he would became so powerfull that no one would dare to treat him badly, he would have protects him.
But everything would change if he would lose again, because Sting would have expelled by Sabertooth, and with that he would lose his reputation.
Unfortunetely with time Sting has become arrogant, he felt on the darkness (in a similar way as happened with Luxus) he has forgotten the real reason for which he wanted to became so strong.
When that will happened I believe that Sting will admit that he lied when he said that he killed the dragon that raised him.
For this reason I believe that he will lose against Natsu, not in this match, but later, and thanks to that he will remember his purpose, the fact that wanted to became strong for his friend Lector.

There is even the chance that Sting will say to Natsu about the fact that if he would lose again he will be expelled by Sabertooth (perhaps this will happened only at the end of the fight), if it so I would really like that Natsu will affirm that he will beat him, because after his expulsion Sting would be able to understood Yukino, her pain and her feeling of humiliation.
After that someone will know will ask him what he meant (or perhaps he will say it anyways, for example he will say “You have treated Yukino in that way XXX (he will repeat what Yukino said here http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/282/14 http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/282/15 http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/282/16 ), for this reason I will make you feel the same thing”).
But there is even the possibilities that he will say that only to the Fairy Tail mages, not at the whole audience.
If this will happened I believe that will be Erza that will say it to the audience, she will say it to Minerva, in a battle royal in the last days, in that battle royal will participate even Kagura.
I hope that Yukino treatment will be revaled because I want to see Kagura’s reaction.
Counting that she lost everything I believe that just like Meldy with Ultear she is really possessive with her friend, she will never forgive who hurts them, and counting that now Yukino belongs to him she could decide to avenge her.
If this will be the case there is really the case that she will unleash her sword against Kagura.

In any case this match gives us just a taste of what we will see the last day, is just a warmups.
Infact in the lastest day they will fight again, and there all the four dragonslayer will use their full strength since the beginning.

As I already said I believe that the match will end in a draw, but we could have few scenarios for that:
1) The time limit will end immediately after Sting’s flashback.
2) The fight will continue for a bit, in that part will seem that Sting and Rogue could win, because both Gazille and Natsu will not have used their full power yet.
3) The match will end immediately after that Natsu and Gazille have showed their full power.
4) We will see all the four dragonslayer to their full power, even if perhaps only for few pages.
5) Gazille will use his full power, he will be knocked out by Rogue, but this will happened after 30 minutes.
If this will happened I believe that Urtear will unlock his second origin. I believe that after this power up Gazille will be able to use dragon force at his will, just like for Sting and Rogue (but if this scenarios will not happened there is the possibilities that Gazille is already able to do that thanks to his training of 3 months (but perhaps thanks to his training he was only able to harden his body).

The scenarios that I like the most are the third and mostly the fifth, but I believe that the most likely are the third or the fourth scenarios.

Sollum
August 05, 2012, 03:48 PM
All i personally see is Natsu and Gajeel owning Sting and Rogue even further, without much effort.
FT Wins.
Gemma jumps into stadium to punish Sting and Rogue.
Natsu hits him in the face.
Gemma is about to smash Natsu REALLY GOOD, but Makarow stops his uber attack with one finger.
THE END!

Edelheld
August 05, 2012, 03:58 PM
1) If Sting says that fighting for his friends is a pathetic thing than maybe that just means he fights for the grater cause? And he is not just a douchebag =)
2) Expelling losers from the guild in not a law in Sabretooth. The reason Yukino was expelled is not because she lost but because she bet her life and was "humiliated" by enemy's mercy. So Sting may only worry a bit and Rogue has no threat of being expelled and may leave by his own decision if Sting is expelled.
3) Sting and Rogue didn't lie about killing the dragons. Sting explicitly said that they killed their dragons not defeated them in fair fight. That means they killed them by catching them unaware while sleeping etc. or dragons allowed their kids to kill them to strengthen them etc. or just asked to deliver the final blow(they were dying by some reason, maybe after fighting Acnologia or something).
4) Next chapter prediction: half of the first chapter is Sting's flashback and other half is them showing their Dragon Force mode and pushing FT team back. Second chapter is about Natsu and Gajeel showing their best and most likely winning('cos waiting 2 weeks for the ending of the fight is dangerous to Mashima's karma and health).

ghostexiled
August 05, 2012, 07:06 PM
I will remind the members to NOT compare and or bash Fairy Tail or any other series to another series.

If a member has nothing but bad things to state about the series... then take it to this thread found in the archives. (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/62820-Is-Fairy-Tail-Going-Downhill)

As most of you should already know... you are more than welcomed to state your opinion one way or another as long as it is CONSTRUCTIVE. Which means staying away from such poor words in your posts (i.e=cursing) and stay away from trying to sound like your just posting to piss others off... it will be deleted.

Also remember, if there is a post that you completely agree with... then use the "Like" or "Thank" buttons. DO NOT make a post that just says "I agree!". It will be deleted along with any other one-liner comments.

Thanks!

R3D
August 06, 2012, 07:32 AM
http://mywebzx.webs.com/photos/Fairy-Tail/Gajeel_Redfox.jpg

so is this iron drive but gajeel doesnt realize it or named it ?

maybe he'll use this form against dragon force rouge , havent seen him use this in awhile...

Franklyn D. Kieran
August 06, 2012, 01:34 PM
I would be extremely annoyed now if Natsu and Gajeel lose, they both need to win. Baring in mind that Sting and Rouge didn't stand a chance while boosting their powers when Natsu and Gajeel were using mostly just normal punches and their weakest attacks, I don't think FT are going to lose this one. I know ST have doubled their power or whatever, but I think that will just lead them to fight evenly with FT or at the most have a slight advantage. But I do believe Natsu and Gajeel will win this without their own dragonforce, they seem to have much bigger and badder enemies to use that on at the end of this arc.

Besides, it's a lot more satisfying watching Sting and Rogue get pummeled with FT hardly trying, haha.

Aranilas
August 06, 2012, 02:05 PM
I would really like to know, why there are two "bad"-votes. It's no problem, to vote "bad" - everybody has his own opinion, but I would really like to know, WHAT the two users disliked this much.

I voted "epic" as well. The chapter was awesom. The whole chapter I sat there with goosebumps and a wiiiide grin. ^.^
The fact, that Natsu & Gajeel nearly exclusively used normal attacks, just show how powerfull they are. They simply didn't need dragonslayer attacks.
I really hope, they are able to win this match - as far, as we saw now, they have to win, like the commentator said: the levels ar far too different.
I also hope, that the two FT DS can beat the two ST DS without using Dragon Force, because we al know, that there will happen much more within this tournament and if they use one of their strongest "methodes" (as far as we knwo now), there wouldn't be much to boost, when for example a dragon arrives - so I think Mashima wouldn't let them use dragon force by now.

Maybe this thing with Lector has something to do with the fact, that they all came from Edolas and something happens there to Lector or somebody he cares about and so he makes Natsu responsible for this (because Natsu or Fairy Tail "brougth them to Erthland" (to say it simple)). However - that would have nothing to do with especially Natsu ... but maybe this whole "Erthland-story" is something Lector depresses. Who knows ...
But I also think, that Stings "reason to win (for Lectors sake)" is very contrary to his opinion, when Natsu fought for Yukino. Mayby Sting fights for a deeper reason.
I'm really looking forward to the next chapter.

Whats quite exiting too, is what Yajima knows, or what he has to do with this whole thing.

Schabrak
August 06, 2012, 02:50 PM
I would really like to know, why there are two "bad"-votes. It's no problem, to vote "bad" - everybody has his own opinion, but I would really like to know, WHAT the two users disliked this much.
True, boring isn't the same as bad, something good can be borin too, which is the reason it should be put at the bottom of the list as an extra option.

sarutobi_sensei
August 06, 2012, 05:49 PM
I'm guessing you didn't look at the link he posted? That's the "next issue" page for Weekly Shounen Magazine, and it's currently showing the issue that chapter 294 will run in. It officially comes out on 8/8, and will be issue #36-37. The double issue number meaning that there will be no issue released on 8/15, and issue #38 won't be released until 8/22.
Meaning that we have a chapter this week and then only 2 weeks from now right?

Anyway, I can't wait to see the next chapters. They'll probably get ahead of Natsu and Gajeel, but it will still be like nothing. Like Yamaji has said, the difference in power is just too big.

kidopitz27
August 06, 2012, 06:07 PM
i hope Natsu and Gajeel have a skill like that when they use it the DF of the 2 will get cancelled :)

Raicrune
August 06, 2012, 08:01 PM
It would be Awesome if Natsu and Gajeel used Unison raid attack in a form of a dragon attack on both of ST's as the final blow.
and i hope Mashima doesnt leave us in the cliffhanger i want him to finish it with the upcoming one!

dark angel KaRamo
August 07, 2012, 04:20 AM
From what i can see the Dragon lacrima that are in Sting an Rouge may give them the ability to enter Dragon force at will, because looking at this fight i don't see what else the Dragon lacrima help them with.
Now let see Natsu has some ability that he's not releasing yet,
(1)Thunder Flame Dragon Mode
(2) Flames Of Emotion (Shown when he was fighting Erigor, also stated by the master that's this is one of Natsu stronger ability) but don't thing he'll use this tho.
(3) Dragon Force (If he can unleash it a will like Sting an Rouge)
And as for Gajeel i don't know what kind of training he an lily did so he may have,
(1) Two element now like Natsu
(2) Find some rear metal to eat to increase his strength (just like what someone posted a while back)
And he still hasn't use most of his abilities like
(3) Iron Dragon's Scales or Karma Demon: Iron God Sword.
All an all it's a good fight but now the twin Dragon of ST is ready to try an stop fairy tales DS with DF but that won't be easy, lets see how much power they have now and if Natsu an Gajeel can beat them. I want Fairy tale to win this match or at least draw. It could go like this Rogue an Sting's DF is two much for Natsu an Gajeel to handle and are getting trashed an being thrown all over the place, but at that moment Natsu an Gajeel release a large amount of DS magical power that shocks everyone and make Sting an Rogue can't even move when they felt it. And as Natsu an Gajeel are about to Attack time runs out, and makes Sting and Rogue wonder what would of happen if the time hadn't run out. And them on the 7th day completely overwhelm them in the group battle when all 5 have to participate and beat Sting & Rogue.

But i would prefer a win in this fight and make ST see the power of FT's DS.


Thunder Flame Dragon Roar!!!!!!!!!

Giga_Gaia
August 07, 2012, 08:40 AM
Sorry, but even if Sting made a promise to Lector, it's not enough. Natsu's resolve to win for Fairy Tail and make them pay for Lucy is just much stronger.

Half-assed promises from someone who don't even believe in such things as comrades are a joke.

Korosensei
August 07, 2012, 08:46 AM
i've loved see gajeel fighting again after all this time, he is one of my favorites characters, Natsu is not bad also.

RaveDragon
August 07, 2012, 08:53 AM
i want to see his iron drive again :arf you know gajeel with the iron scales in the phantom lord arc! and maybe a new secret art for those two :wtf

lawlett-kun
August 07, 2012, 10:49 AM
yeah we've had enough of natsu, i actually want to see some toughness fromgajeel already, he was afterall the strongest man in phantom lord... Btw do you guys find that rogue's obsession with gajeel is a bit odd. Wonder whats up with that

ajith_sakthi
August 07, 2012, 10:50 AM
I think Natsu and Gajeel would win this challenge, since the training arc that Fairy Tail received and the second power would be meaningless. Also based on the current points table it makes more reason for Fairy tail to win. Since Rogue and Sting need a terrible beating to make them grounded. I think Natsu and Gajeel should defeat Rogue and Sting with Dragon Force without much effort and send a message on the real power of Fairy tail and NAKAMA POWER :hee

RaveDragon
August 07, 2012, 10:53 AM
yeah we've had enough of natsu, i actually want to see some toughness fromgajeel already, he was afterall the strongest man in phantom lord... Btw do you guys find that rogue's obsession with gajeel is a bit odd. Wonder whats up with that

We're getting to know more about sting but to be honest I want to know more about rogue and fro~ so hopefully after next chapter we get one called rogue and frsch :blush or maybe we might get some backstory for them as well

lawlett-kun
August 07, 2012, 10:55 AM
We're getting to know more about sting but to be honest I want to know more about rogue and fro~ so hopefully after next chapter we get one called rogue and frsch :blush or maybe we might get some backstory for them as well

yeah but i hope mashima wont go too deep in flashbacks , i want to see erza erasing that ugly smirk from minerva's face already and laxus pwning ogra

RaveDragon
August 07, 2012, 10:58 AM
yeah but i hope mashima wont go too deep in flashbacks , i want to see erza erasing that ugly smirk from minerva's face already and laxus pwning ogra

we have another colour page nad extra pages this week, so he could wrap their flashbacks nicely and then take care of the explanations later and wrap up the fight as well.

I would like to see that as well although i hope for a jellal vs kagura vs erza vs milliana as well.

matzik1212
August 07, 2012, 11:06 AM
This chap was so amazing :wtf

Natsu and Gajeel were both awesome , liked how they cornered Sting and Rogue . I wonder what is this Dragon Force that even Mavis was surprised about :oh I wish after this fight , when Natsu and Gajeel win this (hell yeah :arf) both of them will evolve more into the Dragon Slayers magic :wtf

ALIEN ENTITY
August 07, 2012, 11:39 AM
Minerva abilities intrigue me. Rufus should be able to defeat gray:derp Rogue and Sting will be toying with Natsu and Gajeel for most of the next chapter with dragon force.:music

NAM61
August 07, 2012, 12:56 PM
i think we may see lightning flame dragon mode form natsu it should be more then enough to beat sting

Murim
August 07, 2012, 01:08 PM
great chapter.....
i liked the way Natsu appeared so fast before Sting, who was making again his new standard WTF expression^^. Remebered me when Itachi also appeared in front of Sasuke after a counterattack in their last fight.
From now now it will be a balanced fight until Natsu and Gajeel decide to gear up and show to everyone what real dragonslayers are.

this is not direct referring to this chapter, but well....
rereading old chapters, i found that in chapter 90 a woman called Ikaruga was introduced. She was a follower of Gerard and lost in a sword fight against Erza.

What happens if u erase the first letter .... -> correct, it becomes Karuga the samurai girls who hates Gerard. Both uses katanas and maybe are even sisters.
That would make sense why she wants revenge, because it would be for her sister.

longguilol1
August 07, 2012, 01:10 PM
Awful chapter. Natsu and Gajeel hardly broke a sweat and have been moping the floor with arguably Sabertooth's top two mages. Now remember that Natsu was barely on par with Max only a week ago (Fairy Tail time).

And more BS from Mashima in the sense that somehow Natsu getting the Second Origin is supposed to give him the same benefits as someone who actually had trained for 3 months (Gajeel).

All in all, a disappointing, predictable, and anti-climatic fight.

kkck
August 07, 2012, 01:17 PM
Minerva abilities intrigue me. Rufus should be able to defeat gray:derp Rogue and Sting will be toying with Natsu and Gajeel for most of the next chapter with dragon force.:music

Toying is perhaps an exaggeration. Back when natsu used the flames of rebuke he mentioned his strength was increased threefold. At the moment natsu and gajeel have been overwhelming against sting and rogue to say the least, enough that a buffed DS ougi was stop with their bare hands. Honestly, I don't think sting and rogue in their basic forms are that much stronger than what natsu and gajeel were before the time skip. In this regard, gajeel and natsu should be in a decent bit of trouble but I don't think they will be toyed with unless the DF which sting and rogue are using is actually superior to the one used by natsu in the past.

On another note, it is actually interesting that sting and rogue look nothing like natsu when using DF. The two times natsu used DF it resulted in him getting actual scales over him. In turn sting and rogue have a sort of pattern which looks nothing like scales over them. More so, even when laxus and cobra used regular DS magic they got scales and even dragon like limbs all over them. I wonder if there is a reason for all of this or whether mashima just went with it. I guess that when natsu originally used DF he used external sources of power rather than his own power though, ethereon was not even fire.

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------


Awful chapter. Natsu and Gajeel hardly broke a sweat and have been moping the floor with arguably Sabertooth's top two mages. Now remember that Natsu was barely on par with Max only a week ago (Fairy Tail time).

And more BS from Mashima in the sense that somehow Natsu getting the Second Origin is supposed to give him the same benefits as someone who actually had trained for 3 months (Gajeel).

All in all, a disappointing, predictable, and anti-climatic fight.

Well, urtear did outright state that second origin would be actually better than 3 months worth of training. That said, if we consider what jubia said here (http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/291/11) then it does seem like gajeel got second origin. I guess it is possible that I got mistaken about what jubia meant there by second origin however I do kinda doubt gerard would have simply not given the rest of FT (and his particular team) that power. It does not seem to take much out of urtear and I doubt it would be an issue for the lot of them.

longguilol1
August 07, 2012, 01:24 PM
Well, urtear did outright state that second origin would be actually better than 3 months worth of training. That said, if we consider what jubia said here (http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/291/11) then it does seem like gajeel got second origin. I guess it is possible that I got mistaken about what jubia meant there by second origin however I do kinda doubt gerard would have simply not given the rest of FT (and his particular team) that power. It does not seem to take much out of urtear and I doubt it would be an issue for the lot of them.

Depends on which translation you read. This one here (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v25/c263/18.html) clearly states that doubling the amount of magic at one's disposal (what the Second Origin is in a nutshell), will increase one's stamina in a battle since obviously, one will have more magic to expend as a function of time.

The translation above makes more sense since it conforms with the definition of the Second Origin. The Second Origin is simply a second magical container that is used to store magic. In no way, form, or shape will it ever increase one's strength, reflexes, and speed for example. All of these physical aspects can only be increased through training, which Gajeel alone has obviously gone through.

However, that will not stop Mashima from granting the same powers/improvements to Natsu as well who has undergone no training for the sole sake of keeping the power parity between the two intact (plot and main character purposes).

In conclusion, it's an obvious case of character favouritism (main characters), bad writing, and illogical sequence of events. Natsu's simply overpowered for the sake of the plot.

P.S: Juvia was in Natsu/Erza's group that met Ultear/Jellal. We still do not know if Gajeel or anyone else has the Second Origin.

Also, Juvia simply meant that thanks to the increase of the amount of magic at her disposal, she can execute a more powerful attack now. It's like an RPG system:

User: Magical Quantity/Mana at disposal: 100 (Juvia before time-skip)
That attack: uses 120

Juvia after time-skip: 200 Magical Quantity, hence, her ability to use it now (Lucy's Uranometria is another example).

zerocooldx
August 07, 2012, 01:39 PM
Sorry, but even if Sting made a promise to Lector, it's not enough. Natsu's resolve to win for Fairy Tail and make them pay for Lucy is just much stronger.

Half-assed promises from someone who don't even believe in such things as comrades are a joke.

But thats exactly the point. Why would Mashima suddenly make Sting care about keeping promises to friends unless it was something serious/important? Especially when you take into account that he spent every single other moment of the manga building up Sting to be a selfish, self-serving, jackass who only cares for himself. I just hope that Rogue, and especially Sting, don't end up pulling a Gajeel and do a complete 180 as characters.

kkck
August 07, 2012, 01:59 PM
Depends on which translation you read. This one here (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v25/c263/18.html) clearly states that doubling the amount of magic at one's disposal (what the Second Origin is in a nutshell), will increase one's stamina in a battle since obviously, one will have more magic to expend as a function of time.

The translation above makes more sense since it conforms with the definition of the Second Origin. The Second Origin is simply a second magical container that is used to store magic. In no way, form, or shape will it ever increase one's strength, reflexes, and speed for example. All of these physical aspects can only be increased through training, which Gajeel alone has obviously gone through.

However, that will not stop Mashima from granting the same powers/improvements to Natsu as well who has undergone no training for the sole sake of keeping the power parity between the two intact (plot and main character purposes).

In conclusion, it's an obvious case of character favouritism (main characters), bad writing, and illogical sequence of events. Natsu's simply overpowered for the sake of the plot.

P.S: Juvia was in Natsu/Erza's group that met Ultear/Jellal. We still do not know if Gajeel or anyone else has the Second Origin.

Also, Juvia simply meant that thanks to the increase of the amount of magic at her disposal, she can execute a more powerful attack now. It's like an RPG system:

User: Magical Quantity/Mana at disposal: 100 (Juvia before time-skip)
That attack: uses 120

Juvia after time-skip: 200 Magical Quantity, hence, her ability to use it now (Lucy's Uranometria is another example).

That translation does not actually state that magic is doubled by second origin. All translations are similar and none of them actually states that. All it says is that second origin is a second magic container however we have no way to actually confirm to what extent magic increases after this. Doubling makes sense but there could be other things going on here(say, the new magical container being underdeveloped because of being new or it actually being larger than the original). I had forgotten about jubia being there. Still, would it make sense for the rest of them to not have gotten second origin? Gerard and urtear are basically right there to say the least. More so, if second origin does work better than 3 months of training it wouldn't make sense for gajeel to be any sort of match to natsu.

longguilol1
August 07, 2012, 02:13 PM
That translation does not actually state that magic is doubled by second origin. All translations are similar and none of them actually states that. All it says is that second origin is a second magic container however we have no way to actually confirm to what extent magic increases after this. Doubling makes sense but there could be other things going on here(say, the new magical container being underdeveloped because of being new or it actually being larger than the original). I had forgotten about jubia being there. Still, would it make sense for the rest of them to not have gotten second origin? Gerard and urtear are basically right there to say the least. More so, if second origin does work better than 3 months of training it wouldn't make sense for gajeel to be any sort of match to natsu.

That's hardly the point here. Doubling, or not, we know for sure that the Second Origin is essentially an extra container that increases the amount of magic at one's disposal. However, a simple increase in the quantity of magic should not in any form, shape, or way increase one's physical aspects such as strength, reflexes, and speed for example.

That conforms with what we've seen so far from Lucy's and Gray's involvement in the games. Lucy experienced no change in her speed, or strength, reflexes, etc, but was able to summon two spirits at the same time thanks to the Second Origin*. Gray on the other hand, was blitzed by Rufus' attack which a fodder like Nullpudding from Raven Tail easily dodged, hence, confirming that he also hadn't improved his speed/reflexes, etc.

There lies the problem: now all of the sudden Natsu is as strong/fast as Gajeel, when however the latter was actually the one who had undergone a 3 months training session. All that Natsu did was get an additional magic container without the training to supplement his apparent increase in speed/strength/and reflexes, as we've seen in this chapter.

It's an obvious troll move by Mashima that makes no sense whatsoever. Natsu's overpowered since he's the main character, and just has to be on par or greater than Gajeel to affirm/maintain the status quo.


*That actually implies a 2x increase in the amount of magic. Lucy was always able to summon one spirit before obtaining the Second Origin, but thanks to it, she was able to summon two, strongly suggesting a twofold increase.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 07, 2012, 03:46 PM
It's not that big a problem. DS magic has been shown to enhance speed/power as well as strength. If Natsu has more energy to burn than he can put more into enhancing his physical abilities. Besides, Natsu's always done better than Gajeel. It's more like Gajeel caught up here than that Natsu did.

What bugs me is that both of them were 7 years behind. Natsu got the power up ex machina so if Mashima says he's on par with everyone else now that we have to take his word for it. Gajeel trained for 3 months. Somehow he made up for 7 years in only 3 months. That makes no sense.

Schabrak
August 07, 2012, 04:08 PM
In conclusion, it's an obvious case of character favouritism (main characters), bad writing, and illogical sequence of events. Natsu's simply overpowered for the sake of the plot.
You saying that it's bad writing doesn't make it so.:3c

One could see Gray's first challenge to be a plot induced weakness, don't really want to put stupidity here.^^ If he didn't get better than putting him into the final team would have been idiotic. One hint is his rivality to Lyon, who was being praised by Kagura herself.

Are you really questioning why Natsu could be as strong as Gejeel? Oo He was the one fighting Zero, in Edolas and he was the one to beat Hades and got a power-up from that fight, which he's still capable of using. Those two didn't start from the same level or was there any indication that they were?


Somehow he made up for 7 years in only 3 months. That makes no sense.:verily

longguilol1
August 07, 2012, 04:09 PM
It's not that big a problem. DS magic has been shown to enhance speed/power as well as strength. If Natsu has more energy to burn than he can put more into enhancing his physical abilities. Besides, Natsu's always done better than Gajeel. It's more like Gajeel caught up here than that Natsu did.

What bugs me is that both of them were 7 years behind. Natsu got the power up ex machina so if Mashima says he's on par with everyone else now that we have to take his word for it. Gajeel trained for 3 months. Somehow he made up for 7 years in only 3 months. That makes no sense.

Both don't make any sense. If in theory DS magic does indeed enhance speed,power, and strength as a function of available magic, then the implications are far too illogical as it would mean:

Natsu with 10% of his magic is 10 times slower, less powerful, and weaker than he is with 100% of his magic. That is simply false, since it is the attacks, skill, and abilities that define one's physical traits and power.

Natsu's speed, power, and strength has been consistently and repeatedly shown to be the same regardless of how much magic he has at his disposal, as anyone else in the manga. The fighting mechanics are like that.

So to suggest that theory, Natsu wouldn't be able to use any of his attacks more than once, or any repeated application of the same attack would be exponentially weaker than the first. When in fact, Natsu's perfectly able to spam an attack (like his Dragon Roar) as many times as he wants while maintaining its power at the same time; as long as he doesn't run out of magic that is. Same goes for speed/reflexes, etc.: they're the same regardless of how much magic he has.

Only two exceptions:

-When magic level is 0 -- i.e. no magic, then it's a totally different story.
-Transforming into a different elemental or dragon slayer mode (physical change).

Which don't apply in this case since he's still in his base mode.

A clear case of overpowering a character through illogical means, i.e. BS.


You saying that it's bad writing doesn't make it so.:3c

One could see Gray's first challenge to be a plot induced weakness, don't really want to put stupidity here.^^ If he didn't get better than putting him into the final team would have been idiotic. One hint is his rivality to Lyon, who was being praised by Kagura herself.

Are you really questioning why Natsu could be as strong as Gejeel? Oo He was the one fighting Zero, in Edolas and he was the one to beat Zeref and got a power-up from that fight, which he's still capable of using. Those two didn't start from the same level or was there any indication that they were?

Who says Gray's inclusion wasn't idiotic? It is. The only reason he was included is for obvious plot/main character relevancy. Mira would mop the floor with him.

Natsu beat Zeref in Edolas? Wrong manga.

Fighting Zero? Had a power-up through which he transformed into Dragon Force mode, irrelevant.

You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about.

Schabrak
August 07, 2012, 04:18 PM
You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about.
Who made you professor of FairyTailogy? Shamefully your forgot that Nakama-power can become of of strongest sources of magic in this manga, in this case their rage about ST/love for Lucy. You shouldn't make such bold statements, when you don't even consider what we've learned in the last year. You clearly don't know everything there is to know about FT.

longguilol1
August 07, 2012, 04:22 PM
Who made you professor of FairyTailogy? Shamefully your forgot that Nakama-power can become of of strongest sources of magic in this manga, in this case their rage about ST/love for Lucy. You shouldn't make such bold statements, when you don't even consider what we've learned in the last year. You clearly don't know everything there is to know about FT.

I guess you got confused then, since you suggested that Natsu beat Zeref (in Edolas?) or something. Never happened.

Schabrak
August 07, 2012, 04:31 PM
Natsu was the main force taking down ZerefHades, accept it or not, that's what happened (http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/248/4). He was the one to take the task of beating the king of Edolas (http://www.mangareader.net/135-56017-17/fairy-tail/chapter-194.html), again with help of his nakama. You should reread the manga, instead of spreading wrong facts. Don't know why you misinterpreted my sentence, since Zero was part or Oracien Seis, Edolas the next big arc, followed by Tenrou Island.

edit: So instead of pointing to a confusion of names[sry can happen, but you knew what I meant], how about talking about the important stuff in that post?

longguilol1
August 07, 2012, 04:57 PM
Natsu was the main force taking down ZerefHades, accept it or not, that's what happened (http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/248/4). He was the one to take the task of beating the king of Edolas (http://www.mangareader.net/135-56017-17/fairy-tail/chapter-194.html), again with help of his nakama. You should reread the manga, instead of spreading wrong facts. Don't know why you misinterpreted my sentence, since Zero was part or Oracien Seis, Edolas the next big arc, followed by Tenrou Island.

edit: So instead of pointing to a confusion of names[sry can happen, but you knew what I meant], how about talking about the important stuff in that post?

So you did confuse the name of the characters. :oh
And how can facts be wrong? An oxymoron, I'm afraid.

As for your post, Natsu did neither defeat Hades nor The Edolas King on his merit; in both cases, he was aided via power-ups and other characters. Come to think of it, the only fair 1 on 1 fight that Natsu ever had in this series was the one against Gildarts, in which he got utterly curb-stomped.

I'm not a mind reader, you may have meant that genuinely, how am I supposed to know? :derp

ghostexiled
August 07, 2012, 05:02 PM
Lets turn down the heat in this discussion a bit... points can be made without posting comments that have teeth in them.

Thanks!

crimsonlink310
August 07, 2012, 06:10 PM
So you did confuse the name of the characters. :oh
And how can facts be wrong? An oxymoron, I'm afraid.

As for your post, Natsu did neither defeat Hades nor The Edolas King on his merit; in both cases, he was aided via power-ups and other characters. Come to think of it, the only fair 1 on 1 fight that Natsu ever had in this series was the one against Gildarts, in which he got utterly curb-stomped.

I'm not a mind reader, you may have meant that genuinely, how am I supposed to know? :derp

Try reading the beginning of the manga again where Natsu defeated mooks left and right all the time like Erigor. Its not until Jellal that Natsu got a power beyond the usual means.

Natsu did defeat Zero by himself even if he got the Dragon Force power up from Jellal. Zero was not weakened by Jellal or anyone else. It was Natsu DF mode vs Zero.

King Edolas was a result of all 3 Dragon Slayers so that wasn't Natsu.

I find it surprising that you forget all about Zancrow and the others Natsu has beaten by himself.

ALIEN ENTITY
August 07, 2012, 07:09 PM
What bugs me is that both of them were 7 years behind. Natsu got the power up ex machina so if Mashima says he's on par with everyone else now that we have to take his word for it. Gajeel trained for 3 months. Somehow he made up for 7 years in only 3 months. That makes no sense.It's shounen so it makes sense:p But it does bugs me, why Lucy can't get those kinda power up.?:huh:




I find it surprising that you forget all about Zancrow and the others Natsu has beaten by himself.That one was a little tricky, something about nullfying all his magic power,i forgot how he did.? And it was a shame that mashima killed off Zancrow,we need a Flame God Slayer replacement:super

longguilol1
August 07, 2012, 08:54 PM
Try reading the beginning of the manga again where Natsu defeated mooks left and right all the time like Erigor. Its not until Jellal that Natsu got a power beyond the usual means.

Natsu did defeat Zero by himself even if he got the Dragon Force power up from Jellal. Zero was not weakened by Jellal or anyone else. It was Natsu DF mode vs Zero.

King Edolas was a result of all 3 Dragon Slayers so that wasn't Natsu.

I find it surprising that you forget all about Zancrow and the others Natsu has beaten by himself.

Any fodder mooks (below Gray's level) are automatically ignored, since they're not a match regardless.

Natsu defeated Zero through a temporary power-up
Natsu defeated Jellal through a temporary power-up
Natsu defeated Zancrow thanks to external intervention/aid (by Makarov)
Natsu defeated Gajeel thanks to external intervention/aid (by Lucy)
Natsu was defeated easily by Aria, Fukuro, and Gildarts.

All in all, he only ever managed to win against weak opposition by himself. Otherwise, always had to employ a power-up, other means of overcoming an opponent. That's how the manga presented it.

kidopitz27
August 07, 2012, 10:23 PM
i think what will happen next chapter is Natsu and Gajeel will still pawn Sting and Rouge and those 2 will get pushed to their limits making their lacryma overload and their DF to stop or making their lacryma will get broken because of over using DF mode

wow they are figthing because of the second origin? natsu is fast because of the lightning dragon modeinside him hehehehehe :)

crimsonlink310
August 07, 2012, 11:25 PM
Any fodder mooks (below Gray's level) are automatically ignored, since they're not a match regardless.

Natsu defeated Zero through a temporary power-up
Natsu defeated Jellal through a temporary power-up
Natsu defeated Zancrow thanks to external intervention/aid (by Makarov)
Natsu defeated Gajeel thanks to external intervention/aid (by Lucy)
Natsu was defeated easily by Aria, Fukuro, and Gildarts.

All in all, he only ever managed to win against weak opposition by himself. Otherwise, always had to employ a power-up, other means of overcoming an opponent. That's how the manga presented it.

Zero was fresh in battle while Natsu had fought Cobra (who he defeated with no physical help except Happy flying him around BTW). Using DF mode is within Natsu's and the plot's right to use. Considering it made sense for Natsu to win with a power up instead of an asspull when he was technically running on fumes.

Jellal was defeated thanks to Natsu taking a risk in eating Etherion. There is no reason why Dragon Force would give Natsu an unfair advantage when he needed the power up to defeat his opponents.

Zancrow was defeated by Natsu, don't use Makarov as an excuse. Makarov may have grabbed (Only Grabbed, nothing else!) Zancrow but that was it, Zancrow was about to burn Natsu into ash until Natsu cleverly managed to eat Zancrow's flames and use it against him.

Natsu defeated Gajeel thanks to the same reason Gajeel was winning in the first place. Which was eating something of their respective elements. Natsu had help from Lucy to eat flames but she never helped attack Gajeel or something.

If you are going that route then I should blame Phantom headquarters for giving Gajeel Iron to eat.

I dunno how this turned into a discussion from 2nd Origin power up to how Natsu never wins battles "fairly" or whatever.

Sorry in advanced ghostexiled if this is a bit too off topic.

SK-Hao
August 07, 2012, 11:43 PM
I bet this fight comes down to Natsu and Gajeel winning because they use teamwork whereas sabertooth dragon slayers fight solo.

The next chapter will be a series of powerful attacks from both sides thinking they killed each other (dbz style) until Fairy Tail clinches it with an all out attack.

shnugin
August 08, 2012, 01:00 AM
rereading old chapters, i found that in chapter 90 a woman called Ikaruga was introduced. She was a follower of Gerard and lost in a sword fight against Erza.

What happens if u erase the first letter .... -> correct, it becomes Karuga the samurai girls who hates Gerard. Both uses katanas and maybe are even sisters.
That would make sense why she wants revenge, because it would be for her sister.

Thats actually a pretty good theory. Although I wonder why Karuga would be mad since Ikaruga survived during that arc.

So what would the revenge be for?

SerpentTailedAngel
August 08, 2012, 02:01 AM
Also, Jellal did nothing to Ikaruga. She was an assassin he hired. The anime also showed her surviving (though the manga never bothered to say if she escaped or not) If Kagura wants revenge it's for anything that happened to Ikaruga then she's pretty misguided.

Poneglyph420
August 08, 2012, 02:30 AM
I bet this fight comes down to Natsu and Gajeel winning because they use teamwork whereas sabertooth dragon slayers fight solo.

The next chapter will be a series of powerful attacks from both sides thinking they killed each other (dbz style) until Fairy Tail clinches it with an all out attack.

I tend to agree that Natsu and Gazille will emerge victorious based on their teamwork, and bonds to FT. But IMO it's also vital that they find a way to awaken their own Dragon Force.. That I'm hoping is the interesting key to this fight.. Otherwise it sure seems like the levels are too far different (http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/294/36) Obviously..
I'd like the FT pair to have to learn to use their Second Origin to awaken their Dragon Force...

I bet Mashima will make this moment last, and with some background on the ST pair.. add some suspense to the fight..

suraj5898
August 08, 2012, 03:07 AM
there is no reason for loss to FT but there is atlest two resone for FT to win
1) till now they have only use normal attack so even with ST's dragon force FT still have super (their powerful attack) and super duper (dragon force)type attacks
2) ST has hurt lucy so there is noway FT will loss it because FT is strong team but when someone hurt one of them or love-one they become dangerous

well i only think these two but there r be other resone that i dont remembered right now but one thing is sure FT is not going to loose this. if u remember gajeel's first team Phantom Lord they were like ST (no 1 guild) and FT beat them so why will they loss to ST . there is one more thing can happens and that is draw & that because of time-limit with FT upper-hand

ghostexiled
August 08, 2012, 03:58 AM
Remember everyone... there is no chapter this week!

So cry quietly and save making any comments that are just about how you want a chapter this week... they will be deleted.

Thanks!

longguilol1
August 08, 2012, 04:06 AM
Any fodder mooks (below Gray's level) are automatically ignored, since they're not a match regardless.

Natsu defeated Zero through a temporary power-up
Natsu defeated Jellal through a temporary power-up
Natsu defeated Zancrow thanks to external intervention/aid (by Makarov)
Natsu defeated Gajeel thanks to external intervention/aid (by Lucy)
Natsu was defeated easily by Aria, Fukuro, and Gildarts.

All in all, he only ever managed to win against weak opposition by himself. Otherwise, always had to employ a power-up, other means of overcoming an opponent. That's how the manga presented it.



Zero was fresh in battle while Natsu had fought Cobra (who he defeated with no physical help except Happy flying him around BTW). Using DF mode is within Natsu's and the plot's right to use. Considering it made sense for Natsu to win with a power up instead of an asspull when he was technically running on fumes.

Jellal was defeated thanks to Natsu taking a risk in eating Etherion. There is no reason why Dragon Force would give Natsu an unfair advantage when he needed the power up to defeat his opponents.

Zancrow was defeated by Natsu, don't use Makarov as an excuse. Makarov may have grabbed (Only Grabbed, nothing else!) Zancrow but that was it, Zancrow was about to burn Natsu into ash until Natsu cleverly managed to eat Zancrow's flames and use it against him.

Natsu defeated Gajeel thanks to the same reason Gajeel was winning in the first place. Which was eating something of their respective elements. Natsu had help from Lucy to eat flames but she never helped attack Gajeel or something.

If you are going that route then I should blame Phantom headquarters for giving Gajeel Iron to eat.

I dunno how this turned into a discussion from 2nd Origin power up to how Natsu never wins battles "fairly" or whatever.

Sorry in advanced ghostexiled if this is a bit too off topic.

Actually, nothing you say will change the facts that I had outlined above. Natsu either got temporary power-ups, teamed-up, had external intervention and/or aid during all of those fights (Makarov for example against Zancrow). Moreover, Natsu was never able to use Dragon Force on his own accord, thus needed someone else's help to do so (a clear outside advantage =/= fair fight).

Finally, his one sided losses against Gildarts, Aria, Fukuro, only solidify that fact that he can't win unless given a plot-jutsu power up/help.

Anyway, it's apparent that you don't like the facts above, so it's best if we just drop this topic.

Prediction for the upcoming chapter: it's plausible that Sting and Rogue's current Dragon Force modes are based on their dragon lacrima (same as Laxus' DF mode when he fought against Natsu/Gajeel), and not DS magic, as such, I think they'll at most get a twofold increase in strength.

They'll have the upper hand temporary, before Natsu & Gajeel decide to get serious (and actually break a sweat); fight ends in a one-sided victory for Fairy Tail.

ghostexiled
August 08, 2012, 04:09 AM
yes... lets put this Natsu power up debate behind us.

I believe that sides have been taken in this discussion and no one is going to sway the others.

So its best to just move on.

Speedy10
August 08, 2012, 09:34 AM
Why do they say that there will be no chapter of FT this week?
First I've heard that it is only the Shonen Jump which is paused, Fairy Tail is published in the Weekly Shonen Magazine.
Then in the color page of the last chapter, it is written that there would be two weeks of full color pages suites and details about the movie that would emerge following the next.
And this is not the Golden Week, it does not last all week?
Sorry for my bad english.

RaveDragon
August 08, 2012, 09:36 AM
Finally, his one sided losses against Gildarts, Aria, Fukuro, only solidify that fact that he can't win unless given a plot-jutsu power up/help.

He did win against the galuna island guys now in lamia scale with no help dog dude and weird eyebrows...

Rarhyx
August 08, 2012, 09:54 AM
yay 100 users voted for epic ^.^


Why do they say that there will be no chapter of FT this week?
First I've heard that it is only the Shonen Jump which is paused, Fairy Tail is published in the Weekly Shonen Magazine.
Then in the color page of the last chapter, it is written that there would be two weeks of full color pages suites and details about the movie that would emerge following the next.
And this is not the Golden Week, it does not last all week?
Sorry for my bad english.

the first week of august is a holiday week or something like that in japan, so no chapter this week

Krono
August 08, 2012, 10:11 AM
Why do they say that there will be no chapter of FT this week?
First I've heard that it is only the Shonen Jump which is paused, Fairy Tail is published in the Weekly Shonen Magazine.
Then in the color page of the last chapter, it is written that there would be two weeks of full color pages suites and details about the movie that would emerge following the next.
And this is not the Golden Week, it does not last all week?
Sorry for my bad english.

Golden Week only refers to a specific week in late April/early May, where a few holidays coincide. What the various magazines are taking a break for this time is Obon, which falls around the 15th. They don't need to be off the entire week to provide sufficient disruption to prevent an issue from being released. They just need to give people a few days off for that to happen.

Here is the current issue page for Weekly Shounen Magazine:

http://kc.kodansha.co.jp/magazine/index.php/02065/newest

That is the issue that chapter 294 runs in, and is a double issue labeled issue #36-37. It is/was officially out on 8/8.

Here is the next issue page for Weekly Shounen Magazine:

http://kc.kodansha.co.jp/magazine/index.php/02065/next

That is the issue that chapter 295 will run in. It's labeled issue #38, and will be officially out on 8/22. Which is two weeks after #36-37. So unless issue #38 leaks a week earlier than usual, there will be no chapter this week. And if it does leak that early, there will be no chapter next week.

Sollum
August 08, 2012, 04:02 PM
I am not sure if this was mentioned, but if someone is confused about Yajima's "Hmmm" thingy, its quite clear

http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/95454440/36 Yajima thinks with loud "Hmm"
http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/95454440/37 Yajima anwsers that their "power levels are to different"

Edelheld
August 08, 2012, 04:05 PM
1) Both don't make any sense. If in theory DS magic does indeed enhance speed,power, and strength as a function of available magic, then the implications are far too illogical as it would mean: ... A clear case of overpowering a character through illogical means, i.e. BS.
2) Who says Gray's inclusion wasn't idiotic? It is. The only reason he was included is for obvious plot/main character relevancy. Mira would mop the floor with him.
...
1) Those implications are illogical simply because you are wrong. In RPG terms what you were talking about is spellpower and it hardly can be depleted through use of magic. As you stated by yourself the second origin is just another manapool. So how can increase in the amount of mana also increase spellpower?
It's simple. As you may have noticed, mages are able to withstand an incredible amount of physical abuse and full depleting of manapool to the last drop puts a mage into coma-like state. So, in mages mana can be stored and interlinked with the lifeforce thus making them mages =) And the amount of mana itself shall increase durability as a multiplier by its connection to lifeforce like "manashield" magic.
It hints that mana itself is not just a number of the amount of manapool but a unique energy with its own unique capabilities. And one of them is to influence the spellpower of a mage. As if, in RPG terms, there is a passive ability that increases spellpower by multiplying it with a modificator based on the amount of full manapool. But in more sophisticated way than "doubling manapool doubles spellpower". And it is proven by manga - Gray's basic attacks became stronger(ch.269) and Lucy's Spirits got new outfits =) And they got new abilities not only because they have increased their manapool but also because some magics have requirement of a certain level of magic/spellpower attribute, as in many RPGs. That's why Jellal gave to Natsu the special Flame of Rebuke at the time when any fire could do the trick of increasing Natsu's amount of mana - because the Flame of Rebuke also gives a buff to magic attribute that Natsu needed to use some stronger magic =)
So why haven't Gray and Lucy became stronger physically? It's simple too - because they have magic which do not influence their physical condition. Unlike Dragon Slayers. Because their magic is, at its basics, copying the Dragon. Not just his magical abilities but also his strength, agility and durability. It is the magic of becoming dragonlike with more dragonlike forms required for stronger spells. To be a Dragon Slayer also is like, in RPG terms, having a passive ability that makes you somewhat dragonlike all the time(that's why in Edolas they haven't been converted into lacryma) and that passive ability is also affected by the manapool modificator passive ability. So increase in the amount of their full manapool makes Dragon Slayers physically stronger =) Except Wendy. Because no matter how many times you multiply zero you'll still get zero =) Though now she is not that fragile little girl she was the first time we met her.
As for Gajeel, I think that he already was close to the threshold of the new power level so he required only 3 months of harsh training or some unique training during that time. It's not like he made a way from zero to hero in 3 months =)
2) I say. Could you people stop with that "mop the floor" crap already? Present Mira is weaker than Gray. Period.


Anyone! If you're looking for a REAL fairy tail quiz challenge, you might want to visit this - http://www.quibblo.com/quiz/hamW21h/Ultimate-Fairy-Tail-Quiz
11 of 21, 52% =(

Krono
August 08, 2012, 04:56 PM
1) Those implications are illogical simply because you are wrong. In RPG terms what you were talking about is spellpower and it hardly can be depleted through use of magic. As you stated by yourself the second origin is just another manapool. So how can increase in the amount of mana also increase spellpower?

Actually, the thing that he's missing is that there's a few possible ways to set things up for magic when you're using an MP pool. One of those - the one that Fairy Tail pretty clearly uses - is that the more power you put into a spell, the more powerful it becomes. To borrow an example from Slayers which uses a similar system, the same Fireball spell could be weak enough to fry only one person, or strong enough to fry a group of people depending on how much power the caster put into it. Or back in Fairy Tail terms, the difference between Lightning-Fire Dragon's Roar when Natsu used it on Hades, and had all of Laxus's remaining magic to put into it, and LFD's Roar when Natsu used it versus Max and had only his own power to put into it.

So, if for example, someone had an MP pool of 1000, and needed to fight for 10 hours straight, they could only afford to spend 100 mp an hour. Give that same person an MP pool of 10,000 and they could spend 1000 mp per hour instead on the exact same number of spells, and since spell power varies with the amount of magic put into it, they'd be hitting 10 times as hard.

SK-Hao
August 08, 2012, 07:05 PM
^ MP doesnt mean shit its' all about magic type.

I think i want to change my prediction from a FT win. This fight might get more intense but idk if we will get to see a conclusion (ie something will stop the fight; maybe that dark energy mystogan felt or the dragons themselves). But i still cant believe ST DS killed dragons the gap in power seems too great.

REN KOUEN
August 08, 2012, 09:34 PM
it breaks my heart that we have no chapter this week

but i know the climax of this battle will be well worth the wait

do any of you think rock and sting can actually win this fight?


personally i think there is no way natsu and gajeel could slip up and lose

like that onr caption said " the difference in power is too great"

---------- Post added at 09:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 PM ----------


^ MP doesnt mean shit its' all about magic type.

I think i want to change my prediction from a FT win. This fight might get more intense but idk if we will get to see a conclusion (ie something will stop the fight; maybe that dark energy mystogan felt or the dragons themselves). But i still cant believe ST DS killed dragons the gap in power seems too great.

the only theory that kinda makes sense about them killing the dragons is either the dragons were already wounded or they caught the dragons off guard because the dragons trusted them

longguilol1
August 09, 2012, 04:24 AM
1) Those implications are illogical simply because you are wrong. In RPG terms what you were talking about is spellpower and it hardly can be depleted through use of magic. As you stated by yourself the second origin is just another manapool. So how can increase in the amount of mana also increase spellpower?
It's simple. As you may have noticed, mages are able to withstand an incredible amount of physical abuse and full depleting of manapool to the last drop puts a mage into coma-like state. So, in mages mana can be stored and interlinked with the lifeforce thus making them mages =) And the amount of mana itself shall increase durability as a multiplier by its connection to lifeforce like "manashield" magic.
It hints that mana itself is not just a number of the amount of manapool but a unique energy with its own unique capabilities. And one of them is to influence the spellpower of a mage. As if, in RPG terms, there is a passive ability that increases spellpower by multiplying it with a modificator based on the amount of full manapool. But in more sophisticated way than "doubling manapool doubles spellpower". And it is proven by manga - Gray's basic attacks became stronger(ch.269) and Lucy's Spirits got new outfits =) And they got new abilities not only because they have increased their manapool but also because some magics have requirement of a certain level of magic/spellpower attribute, as in many RPGs. That's why Jellal gave to Natsu the special Flame of Rebuke at the time when any fire could do the trick of increasing Natsu's amount of mana - because the Flame of Rebuke also gives a buff to magic attribute that Natsu needed to use some stronger magic =)
So why haven't Gray and Lucy became stronger physically? It's simple too - because they have magic which do not influence their physical condition. Unlike Dragon Slayers. Because their magic is, at its basics, copying the Dragon. Not just his magical abilities but also his strength, agility and durability. It is the magic of becoming dragonlike with more dragonlike forms required for stronger spells. To be a Dragon Slayer also is like, in RPG terms, having a passive ability that makes you somewhat dragonlike all the time(that's why in Edolas they haven't been converted into lacryma) and that passive ability is also affected by the manapool modificator passive ability. So increase in the amount of their full manapool makes Dragon Slayers physically stronger =) Except Wendy. Because no matter how many times you multiply zero you'll still get zero =) Though now she is not that fragile little girl she was the first time we met her.
As for Gajeel, I think that he already was close to the threshold of the new power level so he required only 3 months of harsh training or some unique training during that time. It's not like he made a way from zero to hero in 3 months =)
2) I say. Could you people stop with that "mop the floor" crap already? Present Mira is weaker than Gray. Period.



Bolded part and the rest of your post is just baseless speculation. Your main point goes along the lines of:

-An increase in the amount of magic at one's disposal will increase their "durability"

If by durability you mean "stamina", i.e. ability to last longer in battle thanks to the additional magic, then that has already been stated in Chapter 263, as more magic will be expended as a function of time, with the end result being: lasting longer in battle.

But it still doesn't explain the fact that neither Gray nor Lucy's speed/strength/reflexes were changed after they had gotten their second origin, as what we've seen from their involvement in the games. Gray got blitzed and curbstomped by his opponents, whereas, Lucy showed no improvement in strength, speed, or reflexes. She simply was able to summon more spirits at once thanks to her increased magical supply.

Haha, that part made me laugh. Apparently now a change of clothes in Fairy verse == more powerful? That makes zero sense.

Anyway, back to the original point: the simple fact that Natsu's as much improved as Gajeel, although the former had undergone no training whatsoever is clearly an illogical case of character overpowering/BS my Mashima.

Jellal giving the flame of Rebuke to Natsu allowed the latter to enter a whole different DS mode: Dragon Force, which as I stated in my previous posts, is a whole new set of dynamics all together:

-Entering a different DS mode/transforming or elemental mode
-Running out of magic

The two exceptions.

Otherwise, it's been shown throughout this manga that one's speed/strength/reflexes are independent of the amount of magic that one possesses, for the implications are far too illogical otherwise as it would mean:

Natsu at 10% of his magical supply is 10x slower/less agile/and weaker than we would be at 100% of his magical supply, when it's obvious that such a thing never existed, as his reflexes/speed/and the power of his attacks were the same throughout a fight as long as he had sufficient magic to sustain himself physically/use in his attacks.

And again, as I said:

-Running out of magic completely (or no longer having enough magic to sustain one's physical self)
-Transforming into a different mode/elemental mode

Are the obvious exceptions that either exponentially decrease/increase physical aspects such as strength/speed/reflexes, etc, which Natsu obviously hasn't done in this chapter, as he'd been in his base mode throughout.

In conclusion: an illogical case of overpowering a character through contrived and BS means. Just bad writing.

And yes, Mira would mop the floor with Gray based on pre-time skip feats and status quo (guess who trained for 3 months?)


Actually, the thing that he's missing is that there's a few possible ways to set things up for magic when you're using an MP pool. One of those - the one that Fairy Tail pretty clearly uses - is that the more power you put into a spell, the more powerful it becomes. To borrow an example from Slayers which uses a similar system, the same Fireball spell could be weak enough to fry only one person, or strong enough to fry a group of people depending on how much power the caster put into it. Or back in Fairy Tail terms, the difference between Lightning-Fire Dragon's Roar when Natsu used it on Hades, and had all of Laxus's remaining magic to put into it, and LFD's Roar when Natsu used it versus Max and had only his own power to put into it.

So, if for example, someone had an MP pool of 1000, and needed to fight for 10 hours straight, they could only afford to spend 100 mp an hour. Give that same person an MP pool of 10,000 and they could spend 1000 mp per hour instead on the exact same number of spells, and since spell power varies with the amount of magic put into it, they'd be hitting 10 times as hard.

See. That's the thing. Now everyone's throwing random theories around that not only make no sense, but happen to contradict everything that we've seen in the manga thus far. All in an attempt to justify a clear case of bad writing/illogically overpowered character.

Bolded part: if a spell simply required more "power" to be put into it, for it to become more powerful, why is that in the MPF competition:

-Each and every spell was restricted to a certain "power" based on its elemental nature, type, etc?. Jura went all out and got a score of 8544 with that spell of his (probably the most powerful at his arsenal), however, he clearly was unfazed and could have spammed it a couple of more times. Same goes for everyone else. Had they used a different spell/technique, they would've gotten a different score.

Conclusion: each and every spell is constrained to a certain power limit, no matter how much "magic/mana" one has at their disposal. Otherwise, they'd be no need for new techniques/training, etc.

Olho07
August 09, 2012, 10:07 AM
2) I say. Could you people stop with that "mop the floor" crap already? Present Mira is weaker than Gray. Period.

No, I couldn't. Simply because you cannot prove what you said.
Mira was always Erza's opponent and in these 3 months she trained and evolved as anyone. Now, she can use the strongest satan soul.

In addition, I want to remind you that the Satan Soul is not only physical strength and speed, in this form, she can use long rangedmagic, and these spells should also have gotten more powerful.

Krono
August 09, 2012, 10:08 AM
See. That's the thing. Now everyone's throwing random theories around that not only make no sense, but happen to contradict everything that we've seen in the manga thus far. All in an attempt to justify a clear case of bad writing/illogically overpowered character.

It's not a random theory at all, we've seen it at work a few times. Laxus fights evenly with Natsu, Laxus stops holding back on power expenditure, Laxus gets faster and stronger and stomps Natsu. Natsu uses Lightning-Fire Dragon's Roar with his and Laxus's power, and it's a massive blast. Natsu uses it with just his own power, and it's a remarkably smaller and weaker blast. Mirajane at full power blasts Fried for a massive explosion. Mirajane running low on power blasts Azuma for a much smaller explosion. Gray using ice make to attempt to hit Narpudding and Jet and Droy remarking on it's power, even though visually it's no different to us. Lucy's spirits grow more powerful as she grows more powerful (http://i.imgur.com/8lxsI.jpg), even if we don't see any changes in them. The same spells, just with more or less power put into them, and they get stronger or weaker.


Conclusion: each and every spell is constrained to a certain power limit, no matter how much "magic/mana" one has at their disposal. Otherwise, they'd be no need for new techniques/training, etc.

False. Training will always be useful for raising one's power, and new techniques will always be useful. For example Bacchus is pretty much a one trick pony, and as a result he had difficulty in dealing with Elfman. Natsu uses a variety of techniques because a simple punch, no matter how powerful is not not going to be what's called for in all situations. And so on and so forth. Sure, there's plenty of room to say that some spells/techniques have innately more base power than others, but the simple fact remains that we've seen the same techniques grow more or less powerful with the amount of power put into it.

Nor does the MPF serve as proof that there's a cap in general for spells, it just serves as evidence that individuals might have a limit on how much power they can put into a spell.

Edelheld
August 09, 2012, 12:18 PM
1) If by durability you mean "stamina", i.e. ability to last longer in battle thanks to the additional magic, then that has already been stated in Chapter 263, as more magic will be expended as a function of time, with the end result being: lasting longer in battle.
2) But it still doesn't explain the fact that neither Gray nor Lucy's speed/strength/reflexes were changed after they had gotten their second origin,...
3) Anyway, back to the original point: the simple fact that Natsu's as much improved as Gajeel, although the former had undergone no training whatsoever is clearly an illogical case of character overpowering/BS my Mashima.
4) Natsu at 10% of his magical supply is 10x slower/less agile/and weaker than we would be at 100% of his magical supply, ...
5) And yes, Mira would mop the floor with Gray based on pre-time skip feats and status quo (guess who trained for 3 months?)

I wrote a huge post and it's gone :shootme
So I'll go short:
1) http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v25/c263/18.html . Here Ultear says that Second Origin also increases magic power.
2) Gray's and Lucy's magic do not enhance their physical state. But Dragon(and maybe God~) Slayer magic does. That magic is a unique one. Not just some Take Over: Dragon magic. It actually makes you like the Dragon with his magical and physical abilities. So increasing in usual magic won't increase strength but in DS magic will.
3) 2 athletes preparing for the Olympics. One trains hard and other one cheats and uses doping. In the end they both have same increase in power even though one legitimately trained an another one cheated. It's unfair but absolutely logical.
4) It's stated in manga that they got straight increase in magic power but lets play with my theory a bit =) You take it too simplistic. The bonus to spell power from maximum amount of mana is a bonus to base amount of spell power that mage has. When it's gone there still main level of spellpower left. It's not from 100% to 0%. It's more like from 125% to 100%.
But the point is that bonus is based on maximum amount of mana mage can store not on mana he has now. So it's stable and not decreasing with the use of magic.
5) And guess who got the Second Origin and needs no training? =)
Status quo? You mean Mira's S-class title? Some sprinter won the Olympics and later lost his legs in a car crash. No one will take his title away. But if he has that medal it doesn't mean he can run fast even if he's crippled. Mira is crippled too and she is on rehabilitation now. Don't push her too hard.
And what feats exactly? Mira has a time limit to her magic while Gray has none. Mira's main magic is fully offensive while Gray's magic is versatile. Mira's only recent real battle experience is going all rabies on Freed and failing with Azuma.
But most importantly, her will to fight is at sub zero level and will hardly increase ever. She is a nice person. Why you want her to go back to that selfish bitch character? You have Minerva already, enjoy =)


No, I couldn't. Simply because you cannot prove what you said.
Mira was always Erza's opponent and in these 3 months she trained and evolved as anyone. Now, she can use the strongest satan soul.
In addition, I want to remind you that the Satan Soul is not only physical strength and speed, in this form, she can use long rangedmagic, and these spells should also have gotten more powerful.
Yeah, she was. But then she suffered a huge mental trauma and became invalid. Sadly, mental traumas are hard to cure and 3 months definitely is not enough.
Gray also got increase in power. And it is safe to assume that power increase is equal to the ones from training as it was a substitution for 3 lost months.
Most of Gray's magic is long ranged, actually. And unlike Mira he can use defensive abilities too.

longguilol1
August 09, 2012, 01:11 PM
It's not a random theory at all, we've seen it at work a few times. Laxus fights evenly with Natsu, Laxus stops holding back on power expenditure, Laxus gets faster and stronger and stomps Natsu. Natsu uses Lightning-Fire Dragon's Roar with his and Laxus's power, and it's a massive blast. Natsu uses it with just his own power, and it's a remarkably smaller and weaker blast. Mirajane at full power blasts Fried for a massive explosion. Mirajane running low on power blasts Azuma for a much smaller explosion. Gray using ice make to attempt to hit Narpudding and Jet and Droy remarking on it's power, even though visually it's no different to us. Lucy's spirits grow more powerful as she grows more powerful (http://i.imgur.com/8lxsI.jpg), even if we don't see any changes in them. The same spells, just with more or less power put into them, and they get stronger or weaker.

False. Training will always be useful for raising one's power, and new techniques will always be useful. For example Bacchus is pretty much a one trick pony, and as a result he had difficulty in dealing with Elfman. Natsu uses a variety of techniques because a simple punch, no matter how powerful is not not going to be what's called for in all situations. And so on and so forth. Sure, there's plenty of room to say that some spells/techniques have innately more base power than others, but the simple fact remains that we've seen the same techniques grow more or less powerful with the amount of power put into it.

Nor does the MPF serve as proof that there's a cap in general for spells, it just serves as evidence that individuals might have a limit on how much power they can put into a spell.

I think you're just confusing the terminology, are using bad examples, and just making a mess of the whole thing with your (rather) questionable perception.

I'll quote your theory again :


is that the more power you put into a spell, the more powerful it becomes.

That's only true when a user is either running low on magic, or intentionally holding back. The two examples that you used, namely, Mirajane against Azuma, and Laxus against Natsu, are bad examples. First, Mirajane was stated to be running low on magic, hence, obviously, her attacks would be less powerful than they'd be if she had a sufficient amount of magic (notice: sufficient does not equate to full). Laxus on the other hand was intentionally holding back/conserving his magic since he didn't deem Natsu a worthy opponent. You're just re-stating the obvious.

However, your claim itself contradicts everything that we've seen in the manga thus far (as far as the fighting and battle mechanics are considered). During the MPF competition, it is made clear that no matter how much magic one had their disposal, there is a certain power output cap that is designated to each spell. Jura for example, could have spammed his attack a multiple number of times and gotten the same score, since he would have had enough magic to do so.

So, for you to claim that a user can just "increase" the power of their attacks as long as they pour magic into it", is simply false.

As for Natsu's LFD roar, you simply misunderstood its actual mechanics. By default, since the LFD roar is a different elemental DS mode (introduces a new set of dynamics, which do not apply to base Natsu that we've seen here), it concerns not this discussion, but I'll clarify it regardless:

When Natsu first used the LFD, he had enough magic to execute it at full power. So it's the LFD itself that requires a high amount of magic to be executed properly (think Uranometria, Fairy Glitter, etc), not the fact that it can get as powerful as long as someone can add more magic into it. Every spell has a cap, which has been made clear in the story.

Otherwise, no one would need multiple spells. It's a fact that spells fall into different power-scales, which debunks your random theory.

Anyway, this ties in with the original argument: no matter how much "additional" magic Natsu has now at his disposal, it should not have, in any form, way, or shape altered his physical attributes (speed/reflexes/strength) to increase as much as say, Gajeel who explicitly trained for 3 months, while Natsu had not trained at all.

Training's there for a reason: it improves one's skills, lets them acquire new & more powerful techniques to utilize the larger magic pool more effectively, etc.

And yet Natsu will get the same benefits & improvements as someone like Gajeel, although the former did not train. A clear case of illogical overpowering.


I wrote a huge post and it's gone :shootme
So I'll go short:
1) http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v25/c263/18.html . Here Ultear says that Second Origin also increases magic power.
2) Gray's and Lucy's magic do not enhance their physical state. But Dragon(and maybe God~) Slayer magic does. That magic is a unique one. Not just some Take Over: Dragon magic. It actually makes you like the Dragon with his magical and physical abilities. So increasing in usual magic won't increase strength but in DS magic will.
3) 2 athletes preparing for the Olympics. One trains hard and other one cheats and uses doping. In the end they both have same increase in power even though one legitimately trained an another one cheated. It's unfair but absolutely logical.
4) It's stated in manga that they got straight increase in magic power but lets play with my theory a bit =) You take it too simplistic. The bonus to spell power from maximum amount of mana is a bonus to base amount of spell power that mage has. When it's gone there still main level of spellpower left. It's not from 100% to 0%. It's more like from 125% to 100%.
But the point is that bonus is based on maximum amount of mana mage can store not on mana he has now. So it's stable and not decreasing with the use of magic.
5) And guess who got the Second Origin and needs no training? =)
Status quo? You mean Mira's S-class title? Some sprinter won the Olympics and later lost his legs in a car crash. No one will take his title away. But if he has that medal it doesn't mean he can run fast even if he's crippled. Mira is crippled too and she is on rehabilitation now. Don't push her too hard.
And what feats exactly? Mira has a time limit to her magic while Gray has none. Mira's main magic is fully offensive while Gray's magic is versatile. Mira's only recent real battle experience is going all rabies on Freed and failing with Azuma.
But most importantly, her will to fight is at sub zero level and will hardly increase ever. She is a nice person. Why you want her to go back to that selfish bitch character? You have Minerva already, enjoy =)



1. Bad translation. "Magic Power" in this context is the amount of magic, not power-output per say. One can have a huge amount of magic at their disposal, and yet, have 0 actual magical power out since they could lack the skill/spells to do so (Hibiki for example).

2. Too illogical as the implications would imply that: Natsu with 10% of his magical supply, is 10 times weaker, slower, and has 10 times slower reflexes than he'd be with 100% of his magical supply, when it's clearly been revealed that his speed/reflexes/strength are the same throughout the fight as long as he has sufficient magic (doesn't run too low or out of it). Different DS modes/elemental modes do not apply, as by definition, they fall into the "transformation" category. All in all, a bad theory.

3. Makes no sense. One can be doped as much as possible, but without actually moving from the couch, they'll experience no change. Doping supplements training, it doesn't change one's physical powers by itself.

4. See MPF competition, each and every spell has a designated power-cap. Does not matter how much magic one has.

5. Mira is crippled and is on rehabilitation now? Not sure if you're reading the same manga as everyone else.

And no, that not what "Status quo" means.

kkck
August 09, 2012, 01:42 PM
To be honest I find the manga to be rather ambiguous on the matter of whether having more magic would result in increased speed strength or stamina. Take the fight between laxus and hades for example. At some point grey commented on "laxus taking an attack without magic in his body". The direct implication of that is that taking an attack without magic is somehow worst than taking an attack with magic in you. This right here already points towards magic increasing physical resistance to damage. What about what we just saw? Are we to believe natsu before having his second origin opened was that much faster than sting? Or are we to believe that 3 months of training made gajeel that much stronger than rogue with the implication that there is a tradeoff between magical and physical training? Not to mention that we simply don't know whether grey or lucy actually had an increase in physical capacities when using second origin. Grey did not quite get to show of his speed to say the least and lucy was not a physical fighter to begin with. If we consider what we have seen before with DF though, it does seem like having more magic would actually result in an increase in physical capacities though.

I do think that increasing physical capacities is merely a thing about increasing magic. I would think that while increasing magic would indeed help your body there is still an element of actually training yourself physically to get better results. Basically, 2 people with comparable amounts of magic would not necessarily be even physically. Whoever is fitter from a strictly physically point of view would have better results even if the amount of magic behind them is the same.

Krono
August 09, 2012, 03:35 PM
That's only true when a user is either running low on magic, or intentionally holding back. The two examples that you used, namely, Mirajane against Azuma, and Laxus against Natsu, are bad examples. First, Mirajane was stated to be running low on magic, hence, obviously, her attacks would be less powerful than they'd be if she had a sufficient amount of magic (notice: sufficient does not equate to full). Laxus on the other hand was intentionally holding back/conserving his magic since he didn't deem Natsu a worthy opponent. You're just re-stating the obvious.

False, as I used 5 examples. You're cherry picking my arguments and deliberately ignoring the ones you can't contend with. Natsu using Lightning-Fire Roar against Max wasn't him running low on magic, or holding back, and it didn't hold a candle to what he could do with it when he had Laxus's power. Gray attack power increased noticeably according to Jet and Droy, even though his attack looked no different to us. And it's explicitly stated that the strength of Lucy's spirits increases as she gets stronger (http://i.imgur.com/8lxsI.jpg). All of these are examples of same spell, plus more power, equals more powerful spell.


However, your claim itself contradicts everything that we've seen in the manga thus far (as far as the fighting and battle mechanics are considered). During the MPF competition, it is made clear that no matter how much magic one had their disposal, there is a certain power output cap that is designated to each spell. Jura for example, could have spammed his attack a multiple number of times and gotten the same score, since he would have had enough magic to do so.

So, for you to claim that a user can just "increase" the power of their attacks as long as they pour magic into it", is simply false.

It contradicts nothing as the MPF proved no such thing. The MPF was supposed to be measuring the strength of the mages, as that's what the Rune Knights used it for. There were no comments along the lines of "if only they'd used a different spell", but rather ones along the lines of "her real strength isn't power". Nor did anyone try multiple spells on it, nor did they make multiple attempts at the same spell. And you need at least one of these to make a claim that it "proves" that each spell has a maximum possible power.

It doesn't even prove that each wizard has a maximum amount of power they can output, as multiple attempts would be required for that. The bottom line is that the idea that every spell has a max amount of power that can be put into it is purely an invention of yours, unsupported by actual facts.


As for Natsu's LFD roar, you simply misunderstood its actual mechanics. By default, since the LFD roar is a different elemental DS mode (introduces a new set of dynamics, which do not apply to base Natsu that we've seen here), it concerns not this discussion, but I'll clarify it regardless:

When Natsu first used the LFD, he had enough magic to execute it at full power. So it's the LFD itself that requires a high amount of magic to be executed properly (think Uranometria, Fairy Glitter, etc), not the fact that it can get as powerful as long as someone can add more magic into it. Every spell has a cap, which has been made clear in the story.

I misunderstood nothing about it's mechanics. Being a different elemental DS mode is irrelevant. The simple fact remains that we've seen Natsu use it twice. Once with his normal power, once with an extra amount of power. The time with extra power was vastly superior to the time without it.

Nothing says it was at full power the first time he used. Nor does anything say there's a cap. Indeed, if spells were capped like you say, Natsu's attacks wouldn't have increased after training, they'd be stuck at the same level they were when he had difficultly beating Max, and would need an entirely new set of spells to be throwing around Sting and Rogue. And the same would hold true for Gajeel.


Otherwise, no one would need multiple spells. It's a fact that spells fall into different power-scales, which debunks your random theory.

I already addressed why even when more power = more powerful. Multiple spells are required for versatility. Having the most powerful slap ever doesn't matter if someone pounds you with ranged attacks, or has a defense that harms you upon direct contact, or you need to blast a group of people instead of just one.


Anyway, this ties in with the original argument: no matter how much "additional" magic Natsu has now at his disposal, it should not have, in any form, way, or shape altered his physical attributes (speed/reflexes/strength) to increase as much as say, Gajeel who explicitly trained for 3 months, while Natsu had not trained at all.

The problem here is that in addition to refusing to accept that more magic power available = more powerful magic with the same spells, you're also refusing to accept that DS magic increases the users physical attributes. These aren't martial artists who need to increase their muscle mass to hit harder, they're wizards who use their magic to give their punches super strength. What makes their punches stronger isn't physical training, but magical training. Complaining about Natsu being faster and stronger after getting more magical power is like complaining that Jet could go faster with more magical power even though he hadn't spent time training his legs.


And yet Natsu will get the same benefits & improvements as someone like Gajeel, although the former did not train. A clear case of illogical overpowering.

Natsu gets the same benefits and improvements Gajeel gets, because the area they needed to improve was just their magic power. So no matter how they get the increase in magic power, they get the same improvement.

longguilol1
August 09, 2012, 03:39 PM
To be honest I find the manga to be rather ambiguous on the matter of whether having more magic would result in increased speed strength or stamina. Take the fight between laxus and hades for example. At some point grey commented on "laxus taking an attack without magic in his body". The direct implication of that is that taking an attack without magic is somehow worst than taking an attack with magic in you. This right here already points towards magic increasing physical resistance to damage. What about what we just saw? Are we to believe natsu before having his second origin opened was that much faster than sting? Or are we to believe that 3 months of training made gajeel that much stronger than rogue with the implication that there is a tradeoff between magical and physical training? Not to mention that we simply don't know whether grey or lucy actually had an increase in physical capacities when using second origin. Grey did not quite get to show of his speed to say the least and lucy was not a physical fighter to begin with. If we consider what we have seen before with DF though, it does seem like having more magic would actually result in an increase in physical capacities though.

I do think that increasing physical capacities is merely a thing about increasing magic. I would think that while increasing magic would indeed help your body there is still an element of actually training yourself physically to get better results. Basically, 2 people with comparable amounts of magic would not necessarily be even physically. Whoever is fitter from a strictly physically point of view would have better results even if the amount of magic behind them is the same.

Laxus taking an attack without magic in his body falls under the "0 magic" exception, i.e. when someone runs out of magic, which does impose a physical liability. However, the main argument is: as long as one has a sufficient amount of magic, their speed/reflexes/strength and even the power of their spells have shown to be the same. It's when one's either running low on magic, has no magic at all, etc, then that's when the effects become visible.

A simple example is the MPF competition, Jura's spell generated a magical power score of <insert number>, however, he was unfazed by it (didn't run out of magic), which means: he is perfectly able to spam it as much as he wants before running out of magic/not having sufficient magic to execute it at full power.

Simple numbers:

Jura's full magical capacity: 1000 magic points
Mount Fuji (full power): 300 magic points are expended

-> Jura can spam it 4 times. 3 times @ full power, and once at 33% power, before running out of magic.

Now Natsu may have doubled the amount of magic at his disposal, however, he had undergone no training, so essentially, all of his techniques/abilities/skills are the same as they were from pre-time skip.

Example: Dragon Roar -> should have the same amount of power when executed, since Natsu didn't get a chance to improve it via training.

False argument: his Dragon Roar was limited anyway, so the additional magic will automatically improve it.
Why false: his Dragon Roar never utilized 100% of his magical quantity beforehand, hence, no magical limitations were imposed on it.

However, his LFD roar will improve (since it was shown to be much more powerful against Hades given a high magical pool).

---------- Post added at 02:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------


False, as I used 5 examples. You're cherry picking my arguments and deliberately ignoring the ones you can't contend with. Natsu using Lightning-Fire Roar against Max wasn't him running low on magic, or holding back, and it didn't hold a candle to what he could do with it when he had Laxus's power. Gray attack power increased noticeably according to Jet and Droy, even though his attack looked no different to us. And it's explicitly stated that the strength of Lucy's spirits increases as she gets stronger (http://i.imgur.com/8lxsI.jpg). All of these are examples of same spell, plus more power, equals more powerful spell.

It contradicts nothing as the MPF proved no such thing. The MPF was supposed to be measuring the strength of the mages, as that's what the Rune Knights used it for. There were no comments along the lines of "if only they'd used a different spell", but rather ones along the lines of "her real strength isn't power". Nor did anyone try multiple spells on it, nor did they make multiple attempts at the same spell. And you need at least one of these to make a claim that it "proves" that each spell has a maximum possible power.

It doesn't even prove that each wizard has a maximum amount of power they can output, as multiple attempts would be required for that. The bottom line is that the idea that every spell has a max amount of power that can be put into it is purely an invention of yours, unsupported by actual facts.

I misunderstood nothing about it's mechanics. Being a different elemental DS mode is irrelevant. The simple fact remains that we've seen Natsu use it twice. Once with his normal power, once with an extra amount of power. The time with extra power was vastly superior to the time without it.

Nothing says it was at full power the first time he used. Nor does anything say there's a cap. Indeed, if spells were capped like you say, Natsu's attacks wouldn't have increased after training, they'd be stuck at the same level they were when he had difficultly beating Max, and would need an entirely new set of spells to be throwing around Sting and Rogue. And the same would hold true for Gajeel.

I already addressed why even when more power = more powerful. Multiple spells are required for versatility. Having the most powerful slap ever doesn't matter if someone pounds you with ranged attacks, or has a defense that harms you upon direct contact, or you need to blast a group of people instead of just one.

The problem here is that in addition to refusing to accept that more magic power available = more powerful magic with the same spells, you're also refusing to accept that DS magic increases the users physical attributes. These aren't martial artists who need to increase their muscle mass to hit harder, they're wizards who use their magic to give their punches super strength. What makes their punches stronger isn't physical training, but magical training. Complaining about Natsu being faster and stronger after getting more magical power is like complaining that Jet could go faster with more magical power even though he hadn't spent time training his legs.

Natsu gets the same benefits and improvements Gajeel gets, because the area they needed to improve was just their magic power. So no matter how they get the increase in magic power, they get the same improvement.

You're dismissing manga facts just to give some weigh to your random theory. Magical spells are different, with each having a different power-output, as shown in the MPF competition, thus, your random theory makes no sense (at least to me).

The theory being: more magic will simply increase the power of a spell, when no such thing ever existed in the manga (or everyone would just go 100% all out from the get-go).

The only obvious exceptions (which you're basing your example off) are: when one is either low on magic, or intentionally holding back. You've done nothing but re-state the obvious.

Natsu LFD's against Max was a simple case of insufficient magic. Think Fairy Glitter when Cana first used it. Anyway, as I said, everything that we've seen in the manga points to one fact: magical spells are capped at a certain power, no matter how much magic one has at their disposal.

P.S: Just a simple example that refutes all of your claims: Wendy's determination to learn "Milky Way", which happens to be a far more powerful spell. Thus, confirming that spells are capped at a certain power, hence the need to learn more powerful ones.

And also, MPF doesn't measure "Strength", it measures the power-output of a magical spell, i.e. Magical Power Finder.

Krono
August 09, 2012, 03:54 PM
You're dismissing manga facts just to give some weigh to your random theory. Magical spells are different, with each having a different power-output, as shown in the MPF competition, thus, your random theory makes no sense (at least to me).

The theory being: more magic will simply increase the power of a spell, when no such thing ever existed in the manga (or everyone would just go 100% all out from the get-go).

The only thing I'm dismissing is your made up "facts" that aren't supported by the manga. The MPF competition doesn't prove anything, about anything. It suggests that some mages have better power-output than other mages, and that some spells may be better than others for putting out magic power than others, but that's it. There's absolutely zero proof, for example, that if it was allowed, Jura couldn't have said "Let me try again." and gotten a 9999 with the same spell. For the MPF to prove the things you claim it proves, you would need people making multiple attempts with the same spell only to get the same number, make multiple attempts using a different spell to get a higher number, or at the absolute least to be lamenting their choice of spell. You have none of those.

Furthermore your insistence that spells do not grow more powerful when more power is put into them runs directly contradictory to how Lucy's power is said to work (http://i.imgur.com/8lxsI.jpg). It's explicitly stated in the end of volume Q&A that the more powerful Lucy becomes, the more powerful her spirits become. Same summons, that get more powerful as she gets more magic power.

longguilol1
August 09, 2012, 03:58 PM
The only thing I'm dismissing is your made up "facts" that aren't supported by the manga. The MPF competition doesn't prove anything, about anything. It suggests that some mages have better power-output than other mages, and that some spells may be better than others for putting out magic power than others, but that's it. There's absolutely zero proof, for example, that if it was allowed, Jura couldn't have said "Let me try again." and gotten a 9999 with the same spell. For the MPF to prove the things you claim it proves, you would need people making multiple attempts with the same spell only to get the same number, make multiple attempts using a different spell to get a higher number, or at the absolute least to be lamenting their choice of spell. You have none of those.

Furthermore your insistence that spells do not grow more powerful when more power is put into them runs directly contradictory to how Lucy's power is said to work (http://i.imgur.com/8lxsI.jpg). It's explicitly stated in the end of volume Q&A that the more powerful Lucy becomes, the more powerful her spirits become. Same summons, that get more powerful as she gets more magic power.

The MPF competition proves that no matter how much magic one has at their disposal, they cannot channel all of it (100%) to a spell, since each and every spell is capped at a certain magical power. Different spells have a different cap, etc. Thus, that's why there is a need to learn more powerful spells (Wendy's Milky Way, etc).

And no, Jura went all out. His magical power output is simply capped at that limit, due to the nature of the spell.

You're still insisting on that random Lucy example? A celestial spirit is not a magical spell, for all we know, they could have an infinite potential. That example has nothing to do with magical spells, which have been shown to be capped at a certain power limit via the MPF competition (i.e. everyone could have spammed them multiple number of times).

Your theory is based on pure speculation and assumptions that contradict manga facts.

ghostexiled
August 09, 2012, 04:05 PM
alright guys this discussion about magic power and the likes is starting to dance a nice circle into the floor...

I say either agree to disagree or create a thread for this to continue.

Not to say what both sides have to say aren't interesting... it is just starting to drag the thread off topic. :)

longguilol1
August 09, 2012, 04:09 PM
alright guys this discussion about magic power and the likes is starting to dance a nice circle into the floor...

I say either agree to disagree or create a thread for this to continue.

Not to say what both sides have to say aren't interesting... it is just starting to drag the thread off topic. :)

I agree. Let's agree to disagree.

I've given my opinion as to why I think Natsu's overpowered illogically in my previous posts, and that's that.

Olho07
August 09, 2012, 04:59 PM
I wrote a huge post and it's gone :shootme
So I'll go short:
1) http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v25/c263/18.html . Here Ultear says that Second Origin also increases magic power.
2) Gray's and Lucy's magic do not enhance their physical state. But Dragon(and maybe God~) Slayer magic does. That magic is a unique one. Not just some Take Over: Dragon magic. It actually makes you like the Dragon with his magical and physical abilities. So increasing in usual magic won't increase strength but in DS magic will.
3) 2 athletes preparing for the Olympics. One trains hard and other one cheats and uses doping. In the end they both have same increase in power even though one legitimately trained an another one cheated. It's unfair but absolutely logical.
4) It's stated in manga that they got straight increase in magic power but lets play with my theory a bit =) You take it too simplistic. The bonus to spell power from maximum amount of mana is a bonus to base amount of spell power that mage has. When it's gone there still main level of spellpower left. It's not from 100% to 0%. It's more like from 125% to 100%.
But the point is that bonus is based on maximum amount of mana mage can store not on mana he has now. So it's stable and not decreasing with the use of magic.
5) And guess who got the Second Origin and needs no training? =)
Status quo? You mean Mira's S-class title? Some sprinter won the Olympics and later lost his legs in a car crash. No one will take his title away. But if he has that medal it doesn't mean he can run fast even if he's crippled. Mira is crippled too and she is on rehabilitation now. Don't push her too hard.
And what feats exactly? Mira has a time limit to her magic while Gray has none. Mira's main magic is fully offensive while Gray's magic is versatile. Mira's only recent real battle experience is going all rabies on Freed and failing with Azuma.
But most importantly, her will to fight is at sub zero level and will hardly increase ever. She is a nice person. Why you want her to go back to that selfish bitch character? You have Minerva already, enjoy =)


Yeah, she was. But then she suffered a huge mental trauma and became invalid. Sadly, mental traumas are hard to cure and 3 months definitely is not enough.
Gray also got increase in power. And it is safe to assume that power increase is equal to the ones from training as it was a substitution for 3 lost months.
Most of Gray's magic is long ranged, actually. And unlike Mira he can use defensive abilities too.

Come on, Tenrou Island and this last fight prove that you are wrong.... the trauma was because Lisanna's death, Since Lisanna and Mira met again, Mirajane was able to use Satan Soul at ease, She even served as the judge against her own brother and defetead easily the last opponent in this competition . Her power continued the same.

3 months is more than enough to get back into shape, and her evolution shows this.

Krono
August 09, 2012, 05:24 PM
alright guys this discussion about magic power and the likes is starting to dance a nice circle into the floor...

I say either agree to disagree or create a thread for this to continue.

Not to say what both sides have to say aren't interesting... it is just starting to drag the thread off topic. :)

Sure. I'll agree to disagree.

Schabrak
August 09, 2012, 06:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXMbKVyremY

longguilol1
Of course stronger spells will be stronger, learning stronger spells will help with the damage output, that doesn't mean that older spells can't increase in power too though.


Training your willpower will increase you magic capacity as well. ... Please release a little more magic power. ... Layla-sama aslo honed her stellar spirit magic with the same kind of special training.
So power and capacity are connected to each other or not?

Therefore, I think that "The One Magic" is "Love".Natsu and Gajeel using the love for their guild/nakama/Lucy to boost them easily explains their overhelming domination. Like it or not, that's a fact too.

Shadoguardian
August 09, 2012, 11:46 PM
I know I said this before, but I'm hoping that we'll see a showdown between 1st Gen Dual-Element Dragon Mode vs. 3rd Gen Dragon Force, preferbaly ending with a 2-on-2 or two 1-on-1 Dragon Roar attacks collision that wil destroy the stadium.

nanoclarkology
August 10, 2012, 12:10 AM
@Shadoguardian: Natsu and Gajeel haven't really gotten serious yet. I hope that the stadium needs to be evacuated because of so much magical power used. I don't think they should win here. But if they could drag it on long enough then I think they can get a draw. But only because they are so tough.

I think the first has a way to activate their dragon force. I also think that some how, some way Natsu and Gajeel will need to unlock that side of themselves. I don't want to see them beaten because I think that the two rouge and sting are jerks at least one of them can't remember which one.

I think that Natsu needs to pull the line, "Let's get dangerous."

Rarhyx
August 10, 2012, 05:46 AM
hey isn't Hajime no Ippo also in weekly shonen magazine?
I ask because mangastream released a chapter today, maybe we can hope for a FT chapter? ^.^

moonster x
August 10, 2012, 06:18 AM
Rogue and Sting need to use their DF.. It make them weak compared to Natsu and Gazeele.. Natsu still not even use his fire lightning mode yet.. not much of fire attack from Natsu and iron attack from Gazeele.. i lol when ST master said "it's over, you garbage guild" after that the dragon twin from ST got trashed.. again. And after Minerva comment about "quake before the 3rd gen true power" i still think the 1st gen of DS is much stronger from the 3rd one. i can't wait to see how strong Natsu and Gazeele will be when they achieve DF:hip

Zsych
August 10, 2012, 07:40 AM
Unless second origin is supplementing the need for an external magical source, Natsu and Gajeel may not have what they need to achieve dragon force. The benefit the third gen has is that they already have the magical lacryma inside them to provide them with the external magic.

Kuza
August 10, 2012, 09:23 AM
hey isn't Hajime no Ippo also in weekly shonen magazine?
I ask because mangastream released a chapter today, maybe we can hope for a FT chapter? ^.^

this is pretty clear from here http://kc.kodansha.co.jp/magazine/index.php/02065/newest that 36-37 has aired on 8/8/12, and 38 is gonna air on 22/8/12 so no panic on board.

Olho07
August 10, 2012, 09:37 AM
hey isn't Hajime no Ippo also in weekly shonen magazine?
I ask because mangastream released a chapter today, maybe we can hope for a FT chapter? ^.^

The last hajime no ippo chapter was 985: http://mangahead.com/index.php/Manga-Raw-Scan/Hajime-no-Ippo/Hajime-no-Ippo-985-Raw-Scan/01.jpg?action=big&size=original&fromthumbnail=true...

mangastream released the chapter 981

ghostexiled
August 10, 2012, 10:13 AM
I will leave the comments that are off topic due to being informative.

But from now on please only comment on the subject of the thread.

Thanks!

Remember the "LIKE" and "THANK" buttons are your friends.

crimsonlink310
August 10, 2012, 12:17 PM
I'm wondering if Natsu and Gajeel will be dominated for the first few pages as flashback goes on with Sting and Lector. When Natsu and Gajeel make a comback, Mashima will troll us by ending the battle time limit.

Edelheld
August 10, 2012, 06:49 PM
...
<discussion prohibited by authorities>
5. Mira is crippled and is on rehabilitation now? Not sure if you're reading the same manga as everyone else.
And no, that not what "Status quo" means.
The girl had only 2 people in the whole world for her - her little brother and little sister. She saw her brother going berserk and killing her sister. And that broke her. She got a huge mental problem.
She were afraid of using her magic 'cos she could go berserk as her brother did and hurt her friends. She overcompensated her fear of losing her dear ones with the motherly care to her friends. And in Festival arc she faced the terror of losing another sibling and literally gone violently crazy and almost killed her misguided friend - the thing she feared the most.
Haven't you noticed all that stuff in manga?
And she is not healed yet.
(P.S. So what that status quo meant?)


Come on, Tenrou Island and this last fight prove that you are wrong.... the trauma was because Lisanna's death, Since Lisanna and Mira met again, Mirajane was able to use Satan Soul at ease, She even served as the judge against her own brother and defetead easily the last opponent in this competition . Her power continued the same.
3 months is more than enough to get back into shape, and her evolution shows this.
Have you ever suffered a mental illness or saw anyone having it? You clearly have no idea what it's like. 3 months is not enough to be healed. 30 months won't be enough. It will take years to fully recover from all the damage even with the luck of having Lisanna back.
War veteran won't lose his war syndrome right after leaving the military. Even in peace it will haunt him for years. And it will take him a lot of time to be able to return to normal peaceful life. You can't heal depression by simply deciding to be happy and content. You can't stop hallucinations by simply understanding that they are not real. They'll be laughing in your face while you are screaming to them they don't exist. And whole bunch of other examples.
She faced her demons and learned to control them. She got Lisanna back. She's doing well. But she's still on a long hard road to healthy life. She still not fully recovered her control over her magic, maybe she still don't trust herself fully. She can snap any time someone threatens her siblings. She is weak even if she's strong =(

Olho07
August 10, 2012, 08:16 PM
Have you ever suffered a mental illness or saw anyone having it? You clearly have no idea what it's like. 3 months is not enough to be healed. 30 months won't be enough. It will take years to fully recover from all the damage even with the luck of having Lisanna back.
War veteran won't lose his war syndrome right after leaving the military. Even in peace it will haunt him for years. And it will take him a lot of time to be able to return to normal peaceful life. You can't heal depression by simply deciding to be happy and content. You can't stop hallucinations by simply understanding that they are not real. They'll be laughing in your face while you are screaming to them they don't exist. And whole bunch of other examples.
She faced her demons and learned to control them. She got Lisanna back. She's doing well. But she's still on a long hard road to healthy life. She still not fully recovered her control over her magic, maybe she still don't trust herself fully. She can snap any time someone threatens her siblings. She is weak even if she's strong =(

If this were a discussion about real life or a serious manga, I would take into account your arguments without blinking.

But we are talking about Fairy Tail, a shonen manga with fanservice orientation. There isn't the slightest possibility of Mashima detail cases of trauma. Pay attention that I haven't spoken 3 months for her to recover from the trauma, I talked 3 months for her to return to old form. So far there is no evidence that Mirajana hasn't recovered.

Even though she is still frightened by some ghosts, this tournament doesn't put her siblings at risk, thus, she is able to fight as much as Gray.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 11, 2012, 01:11 AM
I think the original point wasn't that she's a traumatized wreck, I think it's that she didn't go back to how she was before Lisanna's not quite death. Mira used to be the biggest yankee in the guild. Now she's a yamato nadeshiko. She doesn't fight anymore for the sake of fighting. Lisanna coming back didn't change that.

Shadoguardian
August 11, 2012, 05:04 AM
You know, I've been thinking about what the fifth event could be, but if it involves all five participants of all the teams, I can't think of many. The only posssibilities I came up with are magical versions of the following:

Battle Royale;
Race (most likely a relay race);
Scavenger Hunt;
Capture The Flag (and keeping it within the alloted time limit);
Protect the King (the game where one of the participants in a each team is a 'king', and the other members have to protect their king from opposing team(s)).

Edelheld
August 11, 2012, 10:30 AM
If this were a discussion about real life or a serious manga, I would take into account your arguments without blinking.
But we are talking about Fairy Tail, a shonen manga with fanservice orientation. There isn't the slightest possibility of Mashima detail cases of trauma. Pay attention that I haven't spoken 3 months for her to recover from the trauma, I talked 3 months for her to return to old form. So far there is no evidence that Mirajana hasn't recovered.
Even though she is still frightened by some ghosts, this tournament doesn't put her siblings at risk, thus, she is able to fight as much as Gray.
I personally thought that manga has "Friendship is magic" orientation =) But that's not the point
Why there isn't such possibility? If it's shonen manga it doesn't mean it has to be simple.
And the only reason Mira lost her power is her mental problem, so it's safe to assume that her power returns as she progresses in recovering.
See how you progress from "mop the floor" to "she is able to fight as much as Gray"? =)

Olho07
August 11, 2012, 10:37 AM
I think the original point wasn't that she's a traumatized wreck, I think it's that she didn't go back to how she was before Lisanna's not quite death. Mira used to be the biggest yankee in the guild. Now she's a yamato nadeshiko. She doesn't fight anymore for the sake of fighting. Lisanna coming back didn't change that.

I agree completely. This reason is more than enough for Gray to stay in the group in her place. Gray wants to fight, she doesn't.
The question is: I understand that sometimes willpower can make difference, but Mirajane was always stronger than Gray. The personality change won't make her weaker.

crimsonlink310
August 11, 2012, 11:31 AM
I think people need to realize something. Mirajane is a minor character who has sudden bursts of importance which is usually when the whole guild is in trouble such as the Laxus arc and during the S rank exam.

Natsu, Lucy are the main characters with Gray, Happy and Erza forming up the last of the main characters. Wendy, Charla, Juvia and Gajeel switch in and out depending on the arc.

Everyone else in FT is relatively minor in appearances even if they are your favorites. Mashima does a good job using all his introduced characters in most arcs.

Team Natsu has always been consistent with 5 members and a 6th for some arcs. Mirajane is not part of that team at any time. Thus she is passed over in favor of Gajeel and Gray who have a place on FT team during the tournament for plot or personal reasons.

I think most of us can agree that Mirajane is very powerful character but being powerful doesn't mean you will be on the team.

Laxus is an exception of course.

moonster x
August 11, 2012, 02:49 PM
:-_- wow!! i think the discussion about Gray and Mira are over.. but it seem it still continue.. weird isn't it..:blink

does white drive & shadow drive can only be use because the 2 of them have a lachryma. I want to see what iron/metal drive look like on Gazeele.. a thousand piece of metal surround his body or his body totally become full metal..:amuse another thing about Rogue & Sting DF it look like their scale are just like a stripes and from Grandyne look.. if Wendy achieve DF will her body becomes hairy..:xp

ghostexiled
August 11, 2012, 03:56 PM
yes all power level comparing should be done and over with in this thread.

For those that wish to continue debating the use of magic or how characters compare to each other through their use of magic, I have created a thread for just that.

The Use of Magic and All Things Related" (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php/78051-The-Use-of-Magic-and-All-Things-Related.-%28May-contain-spoilers%29)

Be warned that if conversations happen in that thread, that it may contain spoilers.

Enjoy!

hoeru
August 11, 2012, 07:17 PM
But we are talking about Fairy Tail, a shonen manga with fanservice orientation. There isn't the slightest possibility of Mashima detail cases of trauma.
Gray's and Elsa's pasts weren't both fan service and detail cases of trauma? That actually classifies both as main characters, while Mira's past was always shown in small flashback shreds. So Mira was never a main character. Not even in the X778 special chapter where she was shown as strongest rival of Elsa who was bullying Natsu.


I personally thought that manga has "Friendship is magic" orientation =)

No, he was perfectly right with the fan service orientation. ;)


I want to see what iron/metal drive look like on Gazeele.. a thousand piece of metal surround his body or his body totally become full metal..:amuse

Well, in that case, we may have already whitnessed him going into "iron force" in his fight against Natsu, haven't we?

I think what may have become handy fo real are Rogue's and Sting's lachryma as they possibly work as "second origin" for them. Once they use the first container they can replenish from the second origin to have enough magical power to go into Dragon Force.

Gajeel back in his fight against Natsu was eating scrap iron all along, and then got his iron scale skin...

llamapie
August 12, 2012, 03:04 AM
Gray's and Elsa's pasts weren't both fan service and detail cases of trauma? That actually classifies both as main characters, while Mira's past was always shown in small flashback shreds. So Mira was never a main character. Not even in the X778 special chapter where she was shown as strongest rival of Elsa who was bullying Natsu.



No, he was perfectly right with the fan service orientation. ;)



Well, in that case, we may have already whitnessed him going into "iron force" in his fight against Natsu, haven't we?

I think what may have become handy fo real are Rogue's and Sting's lachryma as they possibly work as "second origin" for them. Once they use the first container they can replenish from the second origin to have enough magical power to go into Dragon Force.

Gajeel back in his fight against Natsu was eating scrap iron all along, and then got his iron scale skin...

Ya pretty sure that wasn't a full blown dragon force though. We've seen Natsu pull out in desperation a couple of times but that's it. So hopefully they can learn to summon it up here.

While I really enjoy seeing FT whoop their asses (that was excellent), I would like to see this fight push natsu and gajeel. So hopefully this will do it. Of all the mangas on break this week, I was looking forward to FT the most. Oh well.

moonster x
August 12, 2012, 09:15 AM
Well, in that case, we may have already whitnessed him going into "iron force" in his fight against Natsu, haven't we?

I think what may have become handy fo real are Rogue's and Sting's lachryma as they possibly work as "second origin" for them. Once they use the first container they can replenish from the second origin to have enough magical power to go into Dragon Force.

Gajeel back in his fight against Natsu was eating scrap iron all along, and then got his iron scale skin...

hmm.. i forgot about that fight.. (dammit.. i want to see Gazeele have an iron aura like fire with Natsu or shadow with Rogue.. i guess its impossible :xp)if that so doesn't it means Rogue and Sting level when using the drive just the same with or up a little bit from Gazeele years ago.. not that strong huhh.. :cheez that why the DS secret technique Sting used are useless against Natsu now.. and they said they killed their dragon parents with the drive? its a total bs..:-_- DF make much more senses.. we still don't know how strong their DF but maybe this DF magic strength is not a pushover and will make Natsu and Gazeele on their knees.

Edelheld
August 12, 2012, 01:43 PM
No, he was perfectly right with the fan service orientation. ;)

One does not negates another. "Friendship is magical boobies" manga orientation is OK too =)