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ghostexiled
August 17, 2012, 08:00 AM
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Uriel
August 24, 2012, 04:49 AM
Chapter was released. Quite, quite awesome. Wont say more to avoid spoiling too much until everyone reads it.
Linkie (http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/296)

Kuza
August 24, 2012, 04:59 AM
I wouldn't call that awesome really, cause a chapter before Sting alone was trashing both of Natsu and Gajeel with DF and now Natsu without much effort and special attacks defeats both of them in DF state.. idk.. Though i'm glad FT won and got 10 points, so on the last day it must be a draw between them but that 1 score that Sting laughed about on chariot chapter will play it's role. I'd say it was an average chapter.

Chris38
August 24, 2012, 05:04 AM
Chapter is definitely amazing, although it's not exactly what I excepted.

The most interesting fact is that we get more hints on who the mysterious person is... and after reading the chapter, I have no doubt that it's Zeref. Although, his aura seems to have changed, which might have some relation with the whole Eclipse plan.

Personally, I doubt that Jellal will be capable of catching him.

And I also doubt that Sting and Rouge managed to kill their dragons... under normal circumstances.

Since, honestly if they are unable of beating Natsu in his normal fire mode, while fighting him two vs one and also using a union raid against him, then what they would be capable of doing against a dragon ?

Probably nothing, unless their dragons let themselves be killed, for some, at the current moment unknown reason.

jacke12
August 24, 2012, 05:04 AM
Well I don't know what to say but somehow I am quite disappointed the people who had read the chapter already will understand what I am talking about.

Well except Zeref showing that was interesting never even thought he will be there in the stadium.

RaveDragon
August 24, 2012, 05:11 AM
To be honest the face in the beg looks a bit like lucy's so im thinking this other zeref like person is a girl, wanted natsu to struggle a bit more and gajeel to shine much much more but not a bad chapter i give it a good

John 92
August 24, 2012, 05:16 AM
to be honest i was cheering for sting and this was a total troll chapter as much as it was good,i hope on the last event they will do a draw

Tame
August 24, 2012, 05:17 AM
Gajeel didn't get to do anything. This fight went from epic (chapter 1) to so one-sided that is unexciting for me. :(

Roman
August 24, 2012, 05:20 AM
Wow, this was faster than I thought. I can't imagine how powerful Natsu would be if he used DF. He just destroyed them with his ordinary powers. Oh well, those cocky punks deserved it.

Darjaille
August 24, 2012, 05:23 AM
Yeah well this is FT so I just enjoyed how epic Natsu got, and he's finally not amongst the lot that always always struggle to defeat their enemies. Gajeel will definitely get his fight soon, don't worry.

And Zeref!!!!!!!!!! Or girl-Zeref!!!!!! Yay! FTA are first, now the plot can kick in.

Ero-Sanji
August 24, 2012, 05:25 AM
Hate that Gajeel didn't get to do anything, not even activate his skin-armour.
Loved the pounding of Natsu and the beautiful techniques of Sting and Rogue, even though I feel that the unison raid isn't only getting weaker but also more common, anyway, that's the shounen manga rule: The more - the weaker.

The phoenix priestess seem interesting, though her intro has been seen many times before, however Mashima was not shy to introduce her before she actually makes an appearence. The question is wether it's her aura that they are feeling or Zeref's.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 24, 2012, 05:38 AM
Well... alright. That fight happened.

It's a little sad that the thing making everyone cry Zeref is that the dude was crying at the beginning of the chapter. If it really is him-that still could have been a red herring-then I wonder how he's able to be around that many people without them dropping like flies. I thought he'd go back to being dangerous to stand close to after killing Hades but it looks like he just got control of his magic back.

Kuza
August 24, 2012, 05:39 AM
I believe that intro was for upcoming FT movie, no? And that person looks like Zeref to me, I compared some pictures from before, looks alike, but it's only in case this dude doesn't mature at all :D

PS I used spoiler tags cause i wrote about the outcome of the chapter - FT win, and I didn't want random person who visit this thread to suddenly see that FT wins and make fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu table crush :D

Tame
August 24, 2012, 05:41 AM
I believe that intro was for upcoming FT movie, no? And that person looks like Zeref to me, I compared some pictures from before, looks alike, but it's only in case this dude doesn't mature at all :D

PS I used spoiler tags cause i wrote about the outcome of the chapter - FT win, and I didn't want random person who visit this thread to suddenly see that FT wins and make fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu table crush :D

You did reveal that the fight ended this week, though. That completely ruined the chapter for me. :P

El Maco
August 24, 2012, 05:48 AM
Well, that felt rushed.

Mashima always said Natsu is his alter-ego, so maybe he didn't want to give the other boys (Gray, Gajeel) too much screen time :-_- .
That new finishing move came out of nowhere, though. Maybe he actually heard the criticism about the overdrawn "nakama power" story of Erza on Tenrou island
and limited himself this time to a simple caption and a picture of a smiling (and beautiful) Lucy.
Still a good chapter, of course.

I thought the phoenix front page was just an ad for the movie. I wouldn't like it much if the manga had an arc that depended on the movie story.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 24, 2012, 05:48 AM
So in one chapter Mashima obliterated all the build up Sting and Rogue got over the course of the arc, overpowers Natsu by letting him blow of not only the magic that knocked him around last chapter but also unison raid (which it was admittedly cool to see them use casually), and reinforced the idea that Zeref is (*looks down at sig*) a cry baby.

Well... sure. Fine. I guess the fight looked sort of cool if you ignored the buildup to it, and the near guarantee that Zeref is back does kind of please me.

Jirachier
August 24, 2012, 05:51 AM
Gajeel didn't get to do anything. This fight went from epic (chapter 1) to so one-sided that is unexciting for me. :(

This fight was actually epic, If Gajeel did stay and fought then that would've meant that Natsu and Gajeel are not as strong as they are since they can't take the 2 dragons on their own <_<, this was the best possible way to finish the battle because let's be honest here it's about time that Natsu finally got to the level of Erza and the other S ranks and that wouldn't have been the case if Gajeel stayed in the fight.
Natsu already struggled in EVERY single fight he had, how can you not be happy for this one where he just got to shine ?
I personally think that when every fight is a struggle it gets annoying and unrealistic.
The only thing that i didn't like is the author again pulling the "power of the feelings" thing ._.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 24, 2012, 05:57 AM
The reason people are complaining that it wasn't a struggle is because it was last week.

1337 haxor
August 24, 2012, 06:00 AM
The chapter wan't bad, I just think that it was cheap of Mashima not to show any new power from Natsu.

I mean, he just kicked ass because he became ridiculously powerful with second origin and maybe Laxus gave him a cup of his infinite badassery.

Sometimes I think Natsu is the elements of harmony incarnate, the more the friendship the more invincible and intolerable he becomes.

Anyhow, Zeref is back with more emo tears but it seems he at least will try and destroy the world for real.

But you know what scares me?

Last time Zeref cried because he met Natsu and the later couldn't kill him, if he still thinks the same after seeing this fight then I shudder at the tought of Zeref's power.

tobeulp
August 24, 2012, 06:08 AM
Chapter is great but not epic didn't see enough troll face for Sabertooth guild specially Minerva at least their cocky faces are now gone lol... For me I know from the start that Natsu and Gajeel is stronger than Sting and Rogue they are just wanna be dragon slayer IMO... I hope no Zeref or Lucy kidnapping yet we need to see Minerva get his butt kick by Erza!!

ace17
August 24, 2012, 06:09 AM
so apparently natsu didnt use lightning fire mode to defeat them very interesting those guys r weak as hell then wtf what a boring ending this was im actually pissed

liductan
August 24, 2012, 06:10 AM
Honestly, this would have been a better chapter if gajeel was fighting too. Oh well, i won't continue complaining, most comments already did enough complaining for me. Even so, I still enjoyed the chapter,mashima usually finds a way to make natsu an entertaining fighter. At least fairy tail won, just like I thought.. hmmm... I wonder if that really was zeref, the guy has some serious issues. This time it would be nice, if the MC didn't get in jellal's way.

sarutobi_sensei
August 24, 2012, 06:13 AM
Zeref crying again after seeing that Natsu was still standing. Nice.

I can't believe Natsu won without even using Lightning Flame Dragon and even Fire Drive. Just how powerful is he now? Fairy tail is truly unstoppable now.

It was too bad that we didn't see the wtf face of Minerva, but they have no chance of winning. No way they can win in the final match.

Next chapter what's going to happen? I have no idea what the teaser means.

Masterpice
August 24, 2012, 06:21 AM
He didn't even use Lightning Fire Dragon Mode....those two dragons are lame.

fcToho
August 24, 2012, 06:23 AM
Sorry I just have to say it: What is the purpose of this "over the top" battles, as I would call that.

"I'm the strongest, you stand no chance"

"No, I'm the strongest, I beat you to a pulp"

"Ha, you can't do anything against my power"

"You call that strong? Look this is real power"

"I take you 1 on 2!"

"No, I take you 1 on 2!"

=>If someone is stronger it has to be OVER THE TOP!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO23WBji_Z0
http://cheryll.de/wp-content/gallery/em/sting.pnghttp://cheryll.de/wp-content/gallery/em/natsu.png

sarutobi_sensei
August 24, 2012, 06:24 AM
I wouldn't call that awesome really, cause a chapter before Sting alone was trashing both of Natsu and Gajeel with DF and now Natsu without much effort and special attacks defeats both of them in DF state.. idk.. Though i'm glad FT won and got 10 points, so on the last day it must be a draw between them but that 1 score that Sting laughed about on chariot chapter will play it's role. I'd say it was an average chapter.

No way it's going to be a Draw. For that to happen it would mean that in just one day, Sting and Rogue would have gained power to fight as equals as Natsu, Minerva, Ogra and the other guy would be as strong as Laxus, Erza and Gray. I can only think of Gray loosing, but even then, I can't see him loosing. So no way it's going to be a draw.


Hate that Gajeel didn't get to do anything, not even activate his skin-armour.
Loved the pounding of Natsu and the beautiful techniques of Sting and Rogue, even though I feel that the unison raid isn't only getting weaker but also more common, anyway, that's the shounen manga rule: The more - the weaker.

The phoenix priestess seem interesting, though her intro has been seen many times before, however Mashima was not shy to introduce her before she actually makes an appearence. The question is wether it's her aura that they are feeling or Zeref's.
She's from the movie, not from the manga.

Well, that felt rushed.

Mashima always said Natsu is his alter-ego, so maybe he didn't want to give the other boys (Gray, Gajeel) too much screen time :-_- .
That new finishing move came out of nowhere, though. Maybe he actually heard the criticism about the overdrawn "nakama power" story of Erza on Tenrou island
and limited himself this time to a simple caption and a picture of a smiling (and beautiful) Lucy.
Still a good chapter, of course.

I thought the phoenix front page was just an ad for the movie. I wouldn't like it much if the manga had an arc that depended on the movie story.
Natsu had already used that secret dragon slaying technique.

ghostexiled
August 24, 2012, 06:29 AM
For future reference... if you are posting in a spoiler thread, there is no reason to use spoiler tags... its a SPOILER THREAD. :)

ace17
August 24, 2012, 06:37 AM
oh well at least ft is first place but i didnt like the fact that gajeel didnt help at the end im so pissed about that lector is the most annoying cat and now everybody is ganna do the gangnam style

SlayerKisame
August 24, 2012, 06:37 AM
I'm fine with the way it ended. With Gajeel, it just would've been overkill. Natsu has had way more experience as a DS so it only makes sense that he's able to trash them. He has so much more explosive force and he didn't even need to use Lightning-Fire hybrid. Also, Exploding Flame Blade is not a new move, though it's really sick. It was last used against Laxus. I'm glad Mashima reused a move instead of making a new one, seems like it happens all too often.

And damn... It's hard to say Sting didn't kill his dragon at this point, what a ruthless guy. Hopefully there's a good story behind it.

Tame
August 24, 2012, 06:38 AM
This fight was actually epic,

That's subjective.


If Gajeel did stay and fought then that would've meant that Natsu and Gajeel are not as strong as they are since they can't take the 2 dragons on their own <_<, this was the best possible way to finish the battle because let's be honest here it's about time that Natsu finally got to the level of Erza and the other S ranks and that wouldn't have been the case if Gajeel stayed in the fight.
Natsu already struggled in EVERY single fight he had, how can you not be happy for this one where he just got to shine ?
I personally think that when every fight is a struggle it gets annoying and unrealistic.
The only thing that i didn't like is the author again pulling the "power of the feelings" thing ._.

The reason you enjoyed this chapter are the exact same reasons I didn't enjoy it. XD

Natsu gets to shine all the damn time, though. He's the main freakin' character and he beats the Big Bad in every arc! In my opinion the strength he showed here (in comparison with Sting and Rogue) was over the top. I agree not all fights should be a huge struggle, but it should be less one-sided when it's against two characters have been so hyped up. Same reason why I didn't enjoy Laxus vs Alexei.


Natsu has had way more experience as a DS so it only makes sense that he's able to trash them.

How do you know? Natsu was in status for seven years, plenty of time for Sting and Rogue to get tons of experience.

MonkeyLuffy
August 24, 2012, 06:41 AM
Nice arguments FcToho!

Natsu won against them EASILY...Bad chapter 296!New power after power of friendship...THE POWER OF FEELINGS!!! :@
wtf,i thought that Sting and Rogue were the rivals of Natsu and Gazeel...Repeated and childish dialogues and a clisse Natsu with "im fired up" in the end...Well at least,we didn't have nakama power(thnks god) but hey...if you don't want Nakama power,then you will have an overpowered Natsu...Because the ancient dictum of the Greeks "all in good measure" don't fit to FT...

Zsych
August 24, 2012, 06:57 AM
That... was ridiculous. I keep imagining Sting killing his dragon because the dragon commanded him to and lay there and took it.

Apparently that Second Origin power-up is being milked for all its worth here. Even double DF didn't stop Natsu. I was expecting him to use strategy and what he learned about Sting's style, but that almost didn't come into play due to the vast power of Natsu' feelings.

I wanted Fairy Tail to win, not cheat.

DEATHBOTT
August 24, 2012, 06:58 AM
natsu won way to easily i could see him winning by himself if he had used his lightning flame dragon slayer magic but this was just him in base mode vs 2 dragon slayers in df, which allowed natsu to fight on par with a wizard saint. that was incredibly lame. not even getting into how bullshit it is that gajeel was side lined.

lawlett-kun
August 24, 2012, 06:58 AM
Awesome chapter loved it.Happy we can now move on plot wise.Hmm zeref seemed more girly like all have already mentioned i wonder whys that.Well someone is gotta get their butt excommunicated i guess.Poor genma and Minerva so much stress and shock for them.

RaveDragon
August 24, 2012, 07:06 AM
I just have this crazy feeling layla is going to pull a lissana and is more than just connected to the dragons and zeref...bec that was not zeref, zereftwin is too feminine...just a crazy nonsensical prediction.

Regular for me, the fight was both good and bad, it's just that, i wanted it to be a gajeel and natsu win, then it would have been okay, but just natsu is just (nice to see minervas smirk wiped off and st getting what they deserve now i can like sting and rogue since ft got even, just those two and their cats) but a tad more, or maybe mashima wants to get to the climax now. I still have high hopes for the lucy/gat/zeref and his twin thing.

R3D
August 24, 2012, 07:07 AM
Feels so rushed ,natsu didnt even use his lightning flames =/ and gajeel didnt even fight and is lost somewhere...

lawlett-kun
August 24, 2012, 07:09 AM
I just have this crazy feeling layla is going to pull a lissana and is more than just connected to the dragons and zeref...bec that was not zeref, zereftwin is too feminine...just a crazy nonsensical prediction.

Regular for me, the fight was both good and bad, it's just that, i wanted it to be a gajeel and natsu win, then it would have been okay, but just natsu is just (nice to see minervas smirk wiped off and st getting what they deserve now i can like sting and rogue since ft got even, just those two and their cats) but a tad more, or maybe mashima wants to get to the climax now. I still have high hopes for the lucy/gat/zeref and his twin thing.

oh god actually her lower face does look like layla but omg that would be too much and why would she cry for natsus match only if she still cant get over Lucys beat up

Impossibility
August 24, 2012, 07:13 AM
So Natsu just stomps the Twin Dragons. Awesome. Some good action. What I didn't particularly enjoy was more flashbacks from Sting. There seems to be some concerted effort to justify his behaviour, other than him just being a complete tool That for me leads me to believe that Mashima is likely to allow Sting to attempt to vindicate himself. It seems as though we may be slowly marching towards Sting & Rogue joining, or becoming allies of, FT. Rogue, I don't mind so much, but I've seen zero redeeming factors in Sting, and I'm not interested in some turnaround on his part. I guess I should just enjow watching him get wrecked at the moment.

As for Natsu's superiority, I don't think it's as much of a feeling power-up as everyone suggests. Prior to the battle, we'd seen very little of what Sting & Rogue were capable of. They just had massive hype. At the very beginning of the battle, we saw that Natsu & Gajeel were clearly superior. And if you consider massive improvement, which Urtear provided them with, what Natsu has shown isn't beyond what should be expected from him. Just look at the offensive power Wendy showed off. I think the simple reality is that Sting & Rogue were completely overrated. They hadn't faced any of the bigs, and so had inflated egos.

Ifrit
August 24, 2012, 07:14 AM
oh my...did Gajeel & Rouge just got trashed, or is it just me ?

If there is a page I was interested in is the one that shows Zeref....other than that, this chapter is really the worse one ever...Mashima can't go lower than this.

Now that Fairy Tail is on top, some1 gotta take a fall or a draw. so Natsu rise above all...I doubt it will be Erza...so that leave Gray & Laxus

I doubt it will be Gray, I can see him freezing Rufu memories in a lame way. so that leave a draw or even a lost to Laxus.

I did not like what happened to Gajeel in particular ..the man didn't get his chance, he deserve the spot light more than Laxus. Gray, and Erza since all those got their chance, this is the S-Class arc all over again...poor Gajeel

sarutobi_sensei
August 24, 2012, 07:34 AM
natsu won way to easily i could see him winning by himself if he had used his lightning flame dragon slayer magic but this was just him in base mode vs 2 dragon slayers in df, which allowed natsu to fight on par with a wizard saint. that was incredibly lame. not even getting into how bullshit it is that gajeel was side lined.

Lets also not forget that when Natsu activated Dragon Force he had consumed high amounts of magic power, thus his power doubled or tripled at the time.

Sting and Rogue are activating it by their own power, meaning that it's probably not as strong as Natsu's both times.

Why do I say this? Because to me, cheap ass 3rd generation Dragon slayer magic will never beat first generation dragon magic.

And lets also not forget that Natsu, Gajeel and Wendy are special. We've been hinted at that lots of times before.


Awesome chapter loved it.Happy we can now move on plot wise.Hmm zeref seemed more girly like all have already mentioned i wonder whys that.Well someone is gotta get their butt excommunicated i guess.Poor genma and Minerva so much stress and shock for them.
yes he did. maybe we'll see either gerard or Natsu saying that they've seen that girl before.

could it be that Gerard will fall now? I'd hate that honestly :|

---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 PM ----------

Well it does remind of Layla's face and it's similar to Lucy's face. Next chapter is going to be the aftermath of this fight and we'll probably learn some more about the mysterious person.

What if it really is Layla and she has returned to this dimension and somehow she has some sort of Zeref power?

abc1233
August 24, 2012, 07:38 AM
Hated this chapter. This just proves that Mashima is amazing at build-ups but when it comes to the actual conclusions, he fails miserably. Natsu took out 2 DF users in his normal mode? If he used lightning fire mode I would have understood, if Gajeel came back and decided to fight instead of being trolled like always I would have understood, if Natsu used any form of strategy at all I would have understood, but no. Also, If he could take on Rogue without having to see his fighting style, then what was the point of taking that beating in the last chapter? First it was with Raven Tail and now Sabertooth, 2 guilds which had the potential of being awesome villains but they have been made into a joke.

RaveDragon
August 24, 2012, 07:44 AM
oh god actually her lower face does look like layla but omg that would be too much and why would she cry for natsus match only if she still cant get over Lucys beat up

Maybe she's more involved than we know, like she knew natsu and co but something happeened so she got herself a family only to get thrownin crazyness again

moonster x
August 24, 2012, 07:45 AM
after read the chapter i know there will be so much complaining from you guys..:teehee

it been a long time since Natsu overwhelmingly his opponents in battle without any help and i am satisfied with it. Rogue and Sting power is overrated.. yeah they show what DF can do and how strong it is but like wizard saint? hell no.. to obtain the power so easily doesn't means its stronger... and the power of feeling.. hmm.. the power of nakama come from how they feeling about their friends doesn't it and that that.. Gazeel strength just been save for something big later.. no doubt about it..:hee

Sakuja
August 24, 2012, 07:45 AM
oh my...did Gajeel & Rouge just got trashed, or is it just me ?


Yeah i dont see any point in Rogue and Gajeel fighting now. Rogue couldnt do anything against Natsu with Sting together. Gajeel should be about Natsu's Level. How is Rogue gonna supposed to beat him or at least stand a chance.

Anyway anyone else thinks that Zeref might split himself up? In a Good and a Bad part, kinda Dragonball style. Or he might have multiple personalities where he gets spiky hair when he turns.

-Ken-
August 24, 2012, 07:47 AM
Loled.

I find the fact that Sting, one of the "strongest 5", make point for his team equal to Yukino pretty funny.

Yeah, 0 Points.

Darjaille
August 24, 2012, 07:53 AM
I think Zeref is crying because - finally - Natsu is strong enough to kill him now. Yay for second origin power-up, it was that easy.

Or because there's still something Natsu lacks? Or only those feelings "I<3U Natsu long time no see yay you're alive"...

..who knows...

RaveDragon
August 24, 2012, 07:57 AM
Well it does remind of Layla's face and it's similar to Lucy's face. Next chapter is going to be the aftermath of this fight and we'll probably learn some more about the mysterious person.

What if it really is Layla and she has returned to this dimension and somehow she has some sort of Zeref power?

Layla always had this mysterious vibe i still think she was like a priestess of the dragos form zerefs time then she retired or lost her powers or forgot till x777 happened. next week we should know, it seems it might be about her, bec i think if its not layla its a girl.

---------- Post added at 12:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

But yeah i think it really is too similar here
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m99ezeynG71rvxc3ko1_500.jpg
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRi2_vjKClXQh7NvxjAVY6bM7X6CZkjBE558I7mp5M4K554KBv4Sghttp://i7.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/256/fairy-tail-2739985.jpg
It's so similar...
I could be wrong but just too similar

Kuza
August 24, 2012, 07:58 AM
No way it's going to be a Draw. For that to happen it would mean that in just one day, Sting and Rogue would have gained power to fight as equals as Natsu, Minerva, Ogra and the other guy would be as strong as Laxus, Erza and Gray. I can only think of Gray loosing, but even then, I can't see him loosing. So no way it's going to be a draw.

I'm just sure it was pointed out before that the tournament will end with 1 score diffrence between FT and ST. I don't mean it's necessary but we had omg strong hint. Although you speak of team vs team battle, in that case ST have low chances indeed. But it can come up to some kind of battle royale of all 6 teams and I'd gladly believe that FT and ST would be last 2 teams standing and it could over as a draw due to time limit or whatever other reason :D

Chris38
August 24, 2012, 08:17 AM
@RaveDragon

Are you assuming that this mysterious person is... somehow Lucy ? Because if that's the case, it would be a pretty unexpected development, unless Mashima wants to introduce us to some time paradox's, which would explain why two Lucy's would exist at the same time.

Unless, it's Layla, who looks quite similar to Lucy, although she's definitely older then her, but it, remains a possibility.

Although, I have to say that, in my opinion, the "girl" mentioned in the next chapter's title, is going to be... Kagura, whose arena match has already ended, and who also has some kind of grudge against Jellal, who is, currently chasing after the "mysterious person" again.

After all, for the Eclipse plan to actually be achieved, Jellal would probably need to be prevented, in someway, from catching up to that person, and what is a better way to do that, then make Kagura stand in his way, and this time, she will have a quite clear intent to kill him.

I think that this, also has some chance of happening, after all the Jellal X Kagura subplot hasn't been resolved in the current arc, yet.

NAM61
August 24, 2012, 08:21 AM
nice chapter glad natsu won without even using lightning flame mode. also i really am interested in why zeref knows of natsu hope we find out soon. maybe they are related or knew each other from the past. liked ST reactions to natsu wining satisfying

hoeru
August 24, 2012, 08:22 AM
LOL. Now Natsu is dominating strong opponents without any sort of power up ... and peeps are pissed, bored, whatever for cheering the ones that are damned to lose anyways and over some filling text we all have been reading for 300 chapters (including all omake chapters) on different occursions. Seriously, this goes every fuckin' time, FT pwns, every fuckin' time. It's a given, I know. I quit complaining.

The fight and the outcome were awesome and epic - Sting and Rogue can actually be happy that Natsu took Gajeel out.


I wouldn't call that awesome really, cause a chapter before Sting alone was trashing both of Natsu and Gajeel with DF

Did you stop reading the last chapter before the final pages? Sting wasn't trashing them at all. Natsu and Gajeel were toying and making a fool of him all the time.

longguilol1
August 24, 2012, 08:26 AM
On one hand, I'm glad that the fight is over (as cliche as predictable as it may have been), but there is no doubt that Mashima could have written it better. It was poorly structured, as Natsu didn't even have to struggle to pull out a win. It was too easy, anti-climatic, and predictable.

FT at a new low? Or was the Erza vs. Azuma more BS? Share your thoughts :)

crimsonlink310
August 24, 2012, 08:39 AM
On one hand, I'm glad that the fight is over (as cliche as predictable as it may have been), but there is no doubt that Mashima could have written it better. It was poorly structured, as Natsu didn't even have to struggle to pull out a win. It was too easy, anti-climatic, and predictable.

FT at a new low? Or was the Erza vs. Azuma more BS? Share your thoughts :)

Yet in the last thread no one made a prediction that Natsu would win without going Dragon Force/Lightning Flame Dragon mode.

I seriously don't get some people's thought process.

"I didn't like how things went in the chapter so that author can't write for crap"

There was nothing easy about the battle. Natsu and Gajeel were both injured and Natsu had to resort to one of his strongest secret technique.

It wasn't anti-climatic simply because you or others thought Natsu should have struggled more or used DF/Lightning Flame Dragon Mode. Or lost for that matter in some cases.

Again it was not predictable as most if not all expected Natsu to pull out Dragon force or Lightning Flame mode.

Animaniac
August 24, 2012, 08:45 AM
To be honest the face in the beg looks a bit like lucy's so im thinking this other zeref like person is a girl, wanted natsu to struggle a bit more and gajeel to shine much much more but not a bad chapter i give it a good

Yeah I'm about 99% sure that was a girl hence the aura is different than Zeref's.

NAM61
August 24, 2012, 08:50 AM
i am glad natsu won a fight easily with no struggle this makes me thing ST and RT were just red herrings as final arc villain. maybe another guild will be the challenge, or like i have said in the past the last day will be cancelled because the dragons attack.

moonster x
August 24, 2012, 09:04 AM
Again it was not predictable as most if not all expected Natsu to pull out Dragon force or Lightning Flame mode.

still if Natsu pull out DF out of nowhere then someone will say it plotkai or whatever plot something..:teehee

Minerva smiles gone and that what i like about this chapter. The strongest guild of Fiore just get stomp.. no strongest guild can stand after make FT an enemy.:zomg I don't know about Layla face similar to the one that crying because to me the only what make difference between some of the character are their eyes and hair..:confused:

abc1233
August 24, 2012, 09:15 AM
Yet in the last thread no one made a prediction that Natsu would win without going Dragon Force/Lightning Flame Dragon mode.

I seriously don't get some people's thought process.

"I didn't like how things went in the chapter so that author can't write for crap"

There was nothing easy about the battle. Natsu and Gajeel were both injured and Natsu had to resort to one of his strongest secret technique.

It wasn't anti-climatic simply because you or others thought Natsu should have struggled more or used DF/Lightning Flame Dragon Mode. Or lost for that matter in some cases.

Again it was not predictable as most if not all expected Natsu to pull out Dragon force or Lightning Flame mode.
The reason why no one predicted that he would easily win in normal mode is because it would have been too stupid. Going for the unpredictable which doesn't make sense doesn't mean that you're a good writer. They were injured because they took hits from Sting on purpose, that was explained last chapter, everything about the battle in this chapter was easy for Natsu. He didn't take any major hits (when he should have at least taken some from Rogue considering he had no idea about his fighting style) and crushed their unison raid in his normal mode regardless of the attack he used, how can you argue that it wasn't easy for him?


still if Natsu pull out DF out of nowhere then someone will say it plotkai or whatever plot something..:teehee

Minerva smiles gone and that what i like about this chapter. The strongest guild of Fiore just get stomp.. no strongest guild can stand after make FT an enemy.:zomg I don't know about Layla face similar to the one that crying because to me the only what make difference between some of the character are their eyes and hair..:confused:
Tbh, even natsu going DF would have been better. He's already gone DF in the past thanks to a trigger, Mashima could have simply made it so that the triggers temporarily allowed Natsu to use second origin which allowed him to go DF and by having second origin unlocked he can now go DF at will, that would have at least made some sense.

Tame
August 24, 2012, 09:15 AM
Yet in the last thread no one made a prediction that Natsu would win without going Dragon Force/Lightning Flame Dragon mode.

I seriously don't get some people's thought process.

"I didn't like how things went in the chapter so that author can't write for crap"

There was nothing easy about the battle. Natsu and Gajeel were both injured and Natsu had to resort to one of his strongest secret technique.

It wasn't anti-climatic simply because you or others thought Natsu should have struggled more or used DF/Lightning Flame Dragon Mode. Or lost for that matter in some cases.

Again it was not predictable as most if not all expected Natsu to pull out Dragon force or Lightning Flame mode.

I agree that people shouldn't claim Mashima can't write for crap just because they don't like a few chapters - if people really think it's that bad, then they should stop reading.

But Natsu and Gajeel did make it look easy; they completely dominated. Natsu over-powered them like it was nothing!

To your last point: just because something is predictable doesn't make it bad. And just because something in unpredictable doesn't mean it is better. No one predicted that Natsu was going to turn into a four-assed monkey and use his new laser-beam eye powers to destroy the world, but if that had happened it wouldn't have been better than what people did predict what was going to happen.

NAM61
August 24, 2012, 09:24 AM
to me it seemed that rogue was weaker then sting that natsu had no reason to study his fighting style like he did vs sting. anyone else got that impression? i think there will be another treat soon. we all should have seen this coming they all got surprised when erza beat the 100 monsters and natsu. i just really think they had never had strong opponents. i have reread this arc but wasnt it stated that some of the guilds that joined now in the tournament never went till now because the main members of FT were back.

abc1233
August 24, 2012, 09:33 AM
to me it seemed that rogue was weaker then sting that natsu had no reason to study his fighting style like he did vs sting. anyone else got that impression? i think there will be another treat soon. we all should have seen this coming they all got surprised when erza beat the 100 monsters and natsu. i just really think they had never had strong opponents. i have reread this arc but wasnt it stated that some of the guilds that joined now in the tournament never went till now because the main members of FT were back.

correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that unison raid was only possible with 2 mages of a similar magical power, so they wouldn't have been that far apart. Also, Natsu would have had no way to tell how strong DF Rogue was in order to reach the conclusion that there was no point in determining his fighting style.

kidopitz27
August 24, 2012, 09:35 AM
i think Hiro got a plan for Gajeel because he is saving Gajeel for a new battle not in the tournament but on the festival of the dragons :)

i think this will happen in the next few chapters

Gray will lose or it will be a draw

Laxus will one shot Orga

Erza will win or she will feel that Jellal is in danger and left without saying a word and got forfeited

Roman
August 24, 2012, 09:39 AM
Natsu was simply on another level than those two punks. He basically has an increased power in his base state that compares to or, as we've seen, excels their DF power. I can't imagine what he'd done to them if he used Fire/Lightning mode or DF himself.

dragons4life
August 24, 2012, 09:42 AM
IIIII KNEW IT!!!! Zeref did appear in the fight! And the way Ultear and Meredy talked about that "mysterious" magical presence was like saying: "It is Zeref but don't get your hopes up, even though it is him" And Lector is Sting student are you f*ck*ng kidding me :-_-. But anyways EPIC simply EPIC chapter. And also I can see that you people who voted BAD are Sting/Rogue/the-fight-will-end-up-in-a-draw fans


Layla always had this mysterious vibe i still think she was like a priestess of the dragos form zerefs time then she retired or lost her powers or forgot till x777 happened. next week we should know, it seems it might be about her, bec i think if its not layla its a girl.

---------- Post added at 12:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

But yeah i think it really is too similar here
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m99ezeynG71rvxc3ko1_500.jpg
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRi2_vjKClXQh7NvxjAVY6bM7X6CZkjBE558I7mp5M4K554KBv4Sghttp://i7.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/256/fairy-tail-2739985.jpg
It's so similar...
I could be wrong but just too similar

Well if you reread the chapters, you will notice that this is Hiro Mashima's manga style, if you round up all the faces with the same expression you will see that they all look the same.

RaveDragon
August 24, 2012, 09:51 AM
IIIII KNEW IT!!!! Zeref did appear in the fight! And the way Ultear and Meredy talked about that "mysterious" magical presence was like saying: "It is Zeref but don't get your hopes up, even though it is him" And Lector is Sting student are you f*ck*ng kidding me :-_-. But anyways EPIC simply EPIC chapter. And also I can see that you people who voted BAD are Sting/Rogue/the-fight-will-end-up-in-a-draw fans



Well if you reread the chapters, you will notice that this is Hiro Mashima's manga style, if you round up all the faces with the same expression you will see that they all look the same.

could be as well he is the famous troller of the manga world after all.

NAM61
August 24, 2012, 09:51 AM
correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that unison raid was only possible with 2 mages of a similar magical power, so they wouldn't have been that far apart. Also, Natsu would have had no way to tell how strong DF Rogue was in order to reach the conclusion that there was no point in determining his fighting style.

dont know about that cant remember. also natsu saw what rogue did when facing gajeel that he probably did not deem rogue as impressive or powerful to bother learning his style. why try and learn one and not the other there has to be a reason. natsu did seem to not bother to learn rogues style for a reason i think it was because he did not think it would matter. i am just trying to figure out a reason.

moonster x
August 24, 2012, 09:52 AM
Tbh, even natsu going DF would have been better. He's already gone DF in the past thanks to a trigger, Mashima could have simply made it so that the triggers temporarily allowed Natsu to use second origin which allowed him to go DF and by having second origin unlocked he can now go DF at will, that would have at least made some sense.

well.. people sometimes never satisfy if what they want not came true.. and not all people think what you think.. in my point of view Rogue and Sting are not strong enough to make Natsu using his Lightning flame mode.. so DF trigger doesn't make senses..:xp ST master sure is stronger than the dragon twin... why? he make Natsu using LF mode..

NAM61
August 24, 2012, 09:53 AM
the person in the hood could be zeref but maybe it is yukino the girl who was kicked out of from ST for losing to kagura. and jellel thing it was connected to zeref could be a misdirection like he had with shelly when she faced wendy.

TauCarlos
August 24, 2012, 10:01 AM
Yet in the last thread no one made a prediction that Natsu would win without going Dragon Force/Lightning Flame Dragon mode.

I seriously don't get some people's thought process.

"I didn't like how things went in the chapter so that author can't write for crap"

There was nothing easy about the battle. Natsu and Gajeel were both injured and Natsu had to resort to one of his strongest secret technique.

It wasn't anti-climatic simply because you or others thought Natsu should have struggled more or used DF/Lightning Flame Dragon Mode. Or lost for that matter in some cases.

Again it was not predictable as most if not all expected Natsu to pull out Dragon force or Lightning Flame mode.

Okay I'll keep it simple so you can understand our very basic thought process.

A Chapter = Bad, Average or slightly good when meets predictions/expectations
A Chapter= Good, Epic or Top chapter ever when better than predictions/expectations
A Chapter= FAIL when none of the above is met

Yet even so, the issue isn't that this was a "predictable chapter" (Which honestly it wasn't because I for one expected a lot more from this fight) but because it is a very obvious, a very repeated and very massive cliche. Which also keeps screwing around with the power levels in this manga so you can never truly have that oh shit moment. When your actually taken by surprise by how awesome an enemy is and you can feel a sense of thrill where you don't really know if our favorite can win that is when predictability becomes so important.

AS it is now all you can do is hope that your antagonists puts up a good fight before he goes down. Which sometimes happens! I was awed by Stings fight last chapter even though I knew he would lose he looked epic and so did natsu. This chapter on the other hand........ I can never be awed by Dragon Force again for one and the whole of the last chapter seems like a waste of time and a week (Despite how much I loved it) if you're going to trash then trash them wtf is the point of making them look strong only to treat them like fodder in the next chapter?

Explain to me how we're wrong? Explain to me how you can honestly believe that after seeing a single DF user use a roar that ripped through the stadium ground that you can swallow Natsu overpowering a unison raid of two DF users?

PS. WTF is the point of Rogue might as well be only one Dragonslayer opponent since his most important role so far is talk about no bonds in Sabertooth and fantasize about fighting Gajeel

abc1233
August 24, 2012, 10:07 AM
dont know about that cant remember. also natsu saw what rogue did when facing gajeel that he probably did not deem rogue as impressive or powerful to bother learning his style. why try and learn one and not the other there has to be a reason. natsu did seem to bother to learn rogues style for a reason i think it was because he did not think it would matter. i am just trying to figure out a reason.

But that was prior to DF, Natsu would have had no idea how strong Rogue was in DF mode so he couldn't have known that Rogue wasn't worth his time. Also, Sting's battle stats card is very similar to his own. I think it's more of a plot hole tbh.



Okay I'll keep it simple so you can understand our very basic thought process.

A Chapter = Bad, Average or slightly good when meets predictions/expectations
A Chapter= Good, Epic or Top chapter ever when better than predictions/expectations
A Chapter= FAIL when none of the above is met

Yet even so, the issue isn't that this was a "predictable chapter" (Which honestly it wasn't because I for one expected a lot more from this fight) but because it is a very obvious, a very repeated and very massive cliche. Which also keeps screwing around with the power levels in this manga so you can never truly have that oh shit moment. When your actually taken by surprise by how awesome an enemy is and you can feel a sense of thrill where you don't really know if our favorite can win that is when predictability becomes so important.

AS it is now all you can do is hope that your antagonists puts up a good fight before he goes down. Which sometimes happens! I was awed by Stings fight last chapter even though I knew he would lose he looked epic and so did natsu. This chapter on the other hand........ I can never be awed by Dragon Force again for one and the whole of the last chapter seems like a waste of time and a week (Despite how much I loved it) if you're going to trash then trash them wtf is the point of making them look strong only to treat them like fodder in the next chapter?

Explain to me how we're wrong? Explain to me how you can honestly believe that after seeing a single DF user use a roar that ripped through the stadium ground that you can swallow Natsu overpowering a unison raid of two DF users?

PS. WTF is the point of Rogue might as well be only one Dragonslayer opponent since his most important role so far is talk about no bonds in Sabertooth and fantasize about fighting Gajeel

Completely agree



well.. people sometimes never satisfy if what they want not came true.. and not all people think what you think.. in my point of view Rogue and Sting are not strong enough to make Natsu using his Lightning flame mode.. so DF trigger doesn't make senses..:xp ST master sure is stronger than the dragon twin... why? he make Natsu using LF mode..

But they can't have been that weak. They were part of the top 5 in ST, the gap between them and Minerva couldn't have been so great that they can't handle a normal mode Roar whilst Minerva easily blocked a LF mode roar. The power levels just make no sense. Minerva herself has clearly witnessed the twins using DF and has taken a LF mode roar from Natsu and yet she was confident that they would win, the more I think about it the more plot holes I can find.

hoeru
August 24, 2012, 10:11 AM
correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that unison raid was only possible with 2 mages of a similar magical power

Lucy and Juvia don't have/share the same power nor element. Nor do Scorpion and Wendy. Unison raid is simply combining the magical power while unleashing a combined attack.


Tbh, even natsu going DF would have been better. He's already gone DF in the past thanks to a trigger, Mashima could have simply made it so that the triggers temporarily allowed Natsu to use second origin which allowed him to go DF and by having second origin unlocked he can now go DF at will, that would have at least made some sense.

Second original is by no means a power up for strength but for endurance and stamina. Ulltear explained that some couple of chapters ago that second origin is only there once the normal magical power is depleted (http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/fairy-tail/263/20/). So mages can spam a lot of attacks without being in fear of running out of power.


Which also keeps screwing around with the power levels in this manga so you can never truly have that oh shit moment.

Once people stop comparing mages "power level" - which simply is a thing that do not exist in this manga - you'll regain the "oh shit!" moments.

TauCarlos
August 24, 2012, 10:16 AM
Also I would have thought this obvious that the person crying isn't Zeref for one he has no reason to cry he knows Natsu has survived as he was there to watch wendy's fight. Also if you honestly think that his crying cause he thinks Natsu is strong enough to kill him you're kinda assuming Natsu can 1 shot Hades....... Then again hey it's whatever as long as he makes fun of FT anything goes. Also a small and slightly irrelevant point but the outfit that person is wearing is nothing like Zeref's and FT kinda makes a point like most manga to maintain a fashion trend for any important character, but that argument is pretty I admit but I'm more inclined to believe it's someone new since every character who sense says it's something similar to zeref but none is ever certain which is weird since Urtear pretty much manhandled him, she should be able to tell.

R3D
August 24, 2012, 10:27 AM
next chapter title is "the face of the girl i saw that time" .... i wonder who is the girl and who saw her face ....

maybe zeref saw lucy's face

abc1233
August 24, 2012, 10:37 AM
Lucy and Juvia don't have/share the same power nor element. Nor do Scorpion and Wendy. Unison raid is simply combining the magical power while unleashing a combined attack.



Second original is by no means a power up for strength but for endurance and stamina. Ulltear explained that some couple of chapters ago that second origin is only there once the normal magical power is depleted (http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/fairy-tail/263/20/). So mages can spam a lot of attacks without being in fear of running out of power.



Once people stop comparing mages "power level" - which simply is a thing that do not exist in this manga - you'll regain the "oh shit!" moments.

She didn't actually say that second origin is used only once the primary container is depleted, merely that second origin exists and is dormant in most people. For all we know, second origin is used at the same time and can thus make the container bigger, allowing for stronger spells to be used which wasn't previously possible. Also, second origin release having no effect on strength would mean that this fight makes even less sense, it would mean that Natsu would have been able to take Sting and Rogue out without second origin since he didn't exactly use more attacks than he was previously able to use, neither did he use LF mode which would have depleted his container. But power levels do exist, what about the existence of the S class mages? Holy Saints? Guild Masters? You can't introduce a ranking system and say that power levels are meaningless.



next chapter title is "the face of the girl i saw that time" .... i wonder who is the girl and who saw her face ....

maybe zeref saw lucy's face

Or Zeref saw Mavis' face? I've always thought that there was some form of a connection between the two

El Maco
August 24, 2012, 10:39 AM
Feels so rushed ,natsu didnt even use his lightning flames =/ and gajeel didnt even fight and is lost somewhere...

Coming up: "The search for Gajeel".

I'd like to see the sheepish look on his face when he finally escapes from that old mine and rejoins FT, only to be told Natsu cleared up in 1 minute, most of it spent on posturing.

And poor Minerva :pout, looking so worried and thoughtful.

Chris38
August 24, 2012, 10:44 AM
Well, regarding Sting's and Rouge's DF, I don't think it gave them a huge boost in power, at least, not a such huge boost, that Natsu and other 1st generation gain, when they go DF, or in Natsu's case when he goes into his LFD mode.

After all, what is the source of Sting's and Rouge's DF - most likely, it's the Lacrima within their bodies.

Now considering that they are living with that thing, in their bodies - there is no way I would believe that it provides them with a x2, x3 power boost, like what happens when Natsu eats some element, which causes him to go into a DF mode.

Ir's a boost of their abilities, that I will agree with, but it's not a boost of a such huge margin, I would say that it provides them with a 1.5 power boost, or maybe doesn't give them any power boost, but it just allows them to use more advanced dragon techniques from their element, but their magical energy level, stays at the same level that it was at the moment before, they went DF.

In other words, what I want to point out is that the 3rd generation's DF is, most likely, different then the boost that a 1st generation DS receives when they go DF, and those differences, is maybe, the partial reason, why Sting and Rouge where so easily beaten by Natsu in his "base mode".

kkck
August 24, 2012, 10:59 AM
Interesting, so natsu is actually able to handle two dragon force users with unison raid at the same time? At least he used his most powerful technique to defeat unison raid though. I do wonder at what tier of power natsu stands right now though. And where exactly sting and rogue stood. If sting and rogue were at the same level natsu before the timeskip then we are talking about regular natsu being being a match or stronger than the guys he needed dragon force against back in part one. Actually we are talking about natsu being much stronger than any of his past enemies. Is it plausible that regular natsu would actually be able to fight with the likes of gildarts or makarov? Not necessarily win however at least be at a level where they would have to put some effort into the fight. Natsu didn't even have to use his lightning flame in this battle and that even gives him an actually significant boost. Gajeel seems to be at a similar level to natsu for that matter. Erza did defeat 100 of the monsters from her game, out of which 1 was said to be a match for the 10 wizard saints and natsu didn't seem to be far behind her when he got serious so perhaps they all are just THAT strong now. Somehow this battle being too easy made the rest of the arc less interesting for me. I don't expect grey to have too much trouble against rufus now, I find it hard to believe that he would lose at least in terms of magic power to the guy. I mean, isn't rufus just around the gang's age? Why would they lose to their peers nowadays if second origin made that much of a difference? Lucy is one thing but grey is among the greatest combatants in FT.

wooticus
August 24, 2012, 11:15 AM
I think Sting & Rogue are basically on the power level of Natsu & the others before the timeskip, because they seem of equal age now. Probably there is a hierarchy of Dragon slayer power, with Fire, Sky, Metal and Lightning being above Shadow & Lightning. No, that isn't the case. Dragon Slayer power clearly has to be empowered by emotions, friendship and bonds. We see how strong Natsu has gotten and how much Gajeel and Wendy have powered up since joining Fairy Tail. And you can also see how much more powerful Luxus got since he was defeated by Gajeel and Natsu. So despite having access to Dragonforce, Sting and Rogue are just lacking those bonds.

Atobe the king
August 24, 2012, 11:18 AM
Lol..I'm probably in the minority judging from the last two chapters but i love how the chapter and the fight ended.

-These guys were unknown upstarts (and sting is a jerk....the attempt a sympathetic back story did nothing for me) who got famous while FT was out of commission and got super arrogant about it. Them being defeated so handily was pretty fitting.
-They aren't the big bad of this arc, they're the side show. Natsu can't bust out all his trump cards now...have to save it for the real arc boss
-Gajeel will get his spotlight obviously.
-They humiliated Lucy...then they deserve to be humiliated in return.

Thats my two cents.

moonster x
August 24, 2012, 11:42 AM
But they can't have been that weak. They were part of the top 5 in ST, the gap between them and Minerva couldn't have been so great that they can't handle a normal mode Roar whilst Minerva easily blocked a LF mode roar. The power levels just make no sense. Minerva herself has clearly witnessed the twins using DF and has taken a LF mode roar from Natsu and yet she was confident that they would win, the more I think about it the more plot holes I can find.

not a roar i think but fist.. and no.. she not blocking the LF mode energy but transfer it to other part of the building.. you see her magic did you.. she sure overconfident about their strength.. sure.. find any plothole you want.. it your own right to do so.


And poor Minerva :pout, looking so worried and thoughtful.

really? wow!! she is caring about others.. how sweet..:derp

GomuGomu_Getsuga
August 24, 2012, 11:45 AM
Yet in the last thread no one made a prediction that Natsu would win without going Dragon Force/Lightning Flame Dragon mode.

I seriously don't get some people's thought process.

"I didn't like how things went in the chapter so that author can't write for crap"

There was nothing easy about the battle. Natsu and Gajeel were both injured and Natsu had to resort to one of his strongest secret technique.

It wasn't anti-climatic simply because you or others thought Natsu should have struggled more or used DF/Lightning Flame Dragon Mode. Or lost for that matter in some cases.

Again it was not predictable as most if not all expected Natsu to pull out Dragon force or Lightning Flame mode.


Actually, I predicted last week that Natsu would win without his Lightning powers. I really don't see why people are so butt-hurt over Sting and Rouge. Is it because they are cool looking? This is just to show how powerful Natsu has become in almost 300 chapters. Since the beginning we have been shown that Sting was all talk. Every time Natsu showed his power Sting almost S**T himself. I swear there wasn't this much complaining when Laxus defeated all of Raven's tail. Why should Natsu still be so weak? We hadn't seen anything to prove that Sting could even fight Erza on par. Also Natsu being able to block all their moves proves that he was using what he learned about their rhythm or whatever. Why does that even have to be spelled out?

It's not like Natsu fights every single enemy that makes an appearance in the manga. Everyone had their turn to look badass. This will help Sting and Rouge grow as characters, like how Gildartz helped Natsu.

abc1233
August 24, 2012, 12:12 PM
Actually, I predicted last week that Natsu would win without his Lightning powers. I really don't see why people are so butt-hurt over Sting and Rouge. Is it because they are cool looking? This is just to show how powerful Natsu has become in almost 300 chapters. Since the beginning we have been shown that Sting was all talk. Every time Natsu showed his power Sting almost S**T himself. I swear there wasn't this much complaining when Laxus defeated all of Raven's tail. Why should Natsu still be so weak? We hadn't seen anything to prove that Sting could even fight Erza on par. Also Natsu being able to block all their moves proves that he was using what he learned about their rhythm or whatever. Why does that even have to be spelled out?

It's not like Natsu fights every single enemy that makes an appearance in the manga. Everyone had their turn to look badass. This will help Sting and Rouge grow as characters, like how Gildartz helped Natsu.

No, this shows how strong he has become since getting second origin, don't you remember at the start of the TS he could barely keep up with Max? and no he didn't learn about Rogue's fighting style, so him blocking their moves shows that taking the beating last chapter was pointless. The reason why people are annoyed is that we expected Natsu to at least break a sweat and go LF mode when faced with two mages who can use one of the most powerful techniques we've seen so far in the manga.

Lozmaster
August 24, 2012, 12:13 PM
And this fight was going so amazingly for the last two chapters too. What a horrible let down.

My reactions to the last 3 chapters
1st chapter: Woah! Gajeel and Natsu are dominating them!
2nd chapter first three quarters: OH crap! THEY CAN USE DRAGON FORCE AT WILL, AND THEY'RE GIVIGN THEM A MASSIVE BEAT DOWN, THIS COULD BE A GOOD FIGHT.
2nd chapter last quarter: Oh... they're ok... and Natsu is going to fight on his own?... But we've seen so many Natsu fights.... Ah well, at least he'll be forced in to using Lighting-Fire Dragon mode.
3rd chapter: This is one of the worst chapters of fairy tail I've had the mispleasure of reading. Seriously, he doesn't need to use lightning fire mode? He had to use Lightning fire mode against freaking MKaxs before his second origin just to stop himself losing. He even had to use Lightning fire mode when he casually busted in to the Sabretooth guild. He just beat two dragon force users without even getting serious.

This was such a trollfest. Natsu AND Gajeel fighting them at once, I could understand them being able to beat down Sting/Rogue even with dragonforce, but this way... Argh.



How are we even supposed to be motivated to see Gajeel VS Rogue now? Thats going to be one of the most pointless matchups ever.

moonster x
August 24, 2012, 12:28 PM
How are we even supposed to be motivated to see Gajeel VS Rogue now? Thats going to be one of the most pointless matchups ever.

nah.. if the dragon twin cannot defeat Natsu with DF it will be the same with Gazeel. the point of last 2 chapter just to show what Rogue and Sting magic and what they can do.real DS my ass.. they just die like a dog when they fight Igneel or Achnologia that even Zeref scared off because of what a dragon can do..



He even had to use Lightning fire mode when he casually busted in to the Sabretooth guild. He just beat two dragon force users without even getting serious.


he fighting a guild master and he using LF mode as a final attack. and he fighting the dragon twin seriously with Flame DS ultimate technique as final attack..

sakundes
August 24, 2012, 12:44 PM
Why's the chapter out and the darn spoiler thread's still locked?

had to login on my account just to post this. i usually use the official spoiler thread as a measure that the chapter's gonna come out in a few hours, little do i go on reading much of the spoiler discussion comments as it is mostly full (but sometimes interesting) theory-crafts.

nonetheless, the ending was a bit anti-climactic and unexciting. natsu easily pwns em bastard's without putting up much of an effort. im looking forward towards the lightning users, i think sabertooth's got a thunder god slayer :)

Roman
August 24, 2012, 12:44 PM
No, this shows how strong he has become since getting second origin, don't you remember at the start of the TS he could barely keep up with Max? and no he didn't learn about Rogue's fighting style, so him blocking their moves shows that taking the beating last chapter was pointless. The reason why people are annoyed is that we expected Natsu to at least break a sweat and go LF mode when faced with two mages who can use one of the most powerful techniques we've seen so far in the manga.

I agree with this but since those two punks showed nothing but arrogance and disrespect towards their predecessors, I'm glad he beat the shit out of them without breaking a sweat, let alone LF or DF. This was just a preview of the light years difference in power between couple of kids and first Dragon Slayers.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 24, 2012, 12:48 PM
If it turns out the lacyryma actually makes them weaker I'm gonna laugh. Sting had it coming, but Rogue just got trolled.

laughing@you
August 24, 2012, 12:54 PM
What just happened? Was natsu toying with sting? I know knowledge of your opponents movement gives you some type of advantage, but to completely overpower them? O_o? Anybody thinking that something is off here?

Roman
August 24, 2012, 12:55 PM
What just happened? Was natsu toying with sting? I know knowledge of your opponents movement gives you some type of advantage, but to completely overpower them? O_o? Anybody thinking that something is off here?

Natsu was toying with them since the beginning.

Kuza
August 24, 2012, 01:10 PM
Natsu didn't bother to study Rogues movements simply because he had no chance for it, he fully studied Sting and decided that if Rogue is on same lvl they won't make much threat even together so that's the reason he decided to take them both alone.

Nice guess about Yukino as this crying girl. By the way do you guys remember the page where Gelal almost got that person and from behind his haircut looked kinda familiar with Zeref's one. And this last chapter person is in hood..

And about expectaions - i voted average because Mashima used a huge build up and unexciting conclusion. I don't say it was bad, Natsu pwned them, FT get 10 points, everybody happy and crying but there was no hmm.. drama i guess xDDD just bang bang end.

abc1233
August 24, 2012, 01:21 PM
Natsu didn't bother to study Rogues movements simply because he had no chance for it, he fully studied Sting and decided that if Rogue is on same lvl they won't make much threat even together so that's the reason he decided to take them both alone.

Nice guess about Yukino as this crying girl. By the way do you guys remember the page where Gelal almost got that person and from behind his haircut looked kinda familiar with Zeref's one. And this last chapter person is in hood..

He didn't study Sting just to see where his level was at, he could have easily determined that without taking that beating. He studied Sting to see his fighting style and how best to counter it which, given how he was able to easily counter Rogue, was unnecessary. But how does he know that Rogue is on the same level? For all he knows Rogue's DF could have been considerably stronger than Sting's

moonster x
August 24, 2012, 01:28 PM
i know you guys want to see the fight to much more dynamic with Natsu using LF mode or DF. what i understand about the chapter is Natsu just using his original DS magic to defeat other DS.. since LF mode been introduced you guys think that was his magic... no, i don't think so. what i think is LF mode just boosting his magic just for a short while.. not like it will be infinite even with 2nd origin.. Natsu DS magic will be flame and always be that the absolute facts.
about DF.. i am not sure he can trigger it with ease.. if he can i am sure everything around him will be destroy because of the "Force". Natsu DF=super destruction

laughing@you
August 24, 2012, 01:44 PM
Wow Fairy tail is gonna be back on top after this.

So if those twin dragons are not that tough, is it correct to assume that Fairy tail's lightning guy is gonna mop the floor with his opponent?

---------- Post added at 02:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 PM ----------

Well after watching/reading the 3 chapters again, like Roman said they just played with them. I believe natsu and gajeel started at full strength, toned it down and then just decided to defeat them. They got stronger in DF mode yes, but nothing natsu and gajeel couldn't handle without too much effort.

@moonster X i don't believe it boosted him for a short while. out curiosity when you say LF mode you are talking about the fire with lightning magic he uses when he get really serious?

abc1233
August 24, 2012, 01:45 PM
i know you guys want to see the fight to much more dynamic with Natsu using LF mode or DF. what i understand about the chapter is Natsu just using his original DS magic to defeat other DS.. since LF mode been introduced you guys think that was his magic... no, i don't think so. what i think is LF mode just boosting his magic just for a short while.. not like it will be infinite even with 2nd origin.. Natsu DS magic will be flame and always be that the absolute facts.
about DF.. i am not sure he can trigger it with ease.. if he can i am sure everything around him will be destroy because of the "Force". Natsu DF=super destruction
No it was Natsu using his original DS magic to defeat 2 3rd gen DSers in their DF modes using unison raid (both of which are considered insane techniques in their own right), even if it wasn't originally his magic you would think that he would need LF/DF to even things out

kkck
August 24, 2012, 01:59 PM
What did chapter kinda failed to answer is what exactly is white/shadow drive is. If it is a standard DS technique then wouldn't natsu and gajeel also be capable of it? Or perhaps it is a trait of third generation DS? Maybe it is a sort of preview for actual dragon force? It'd be interesting if this is the case and to see natsu and gajeel eventually use fire and iron drive. Or perhaps this is already similar to natsu covering his body in flames and gajeel using his iron scales.

moonster x
August 24, 2012, 02:05 PM
No it was Natsu using his original DS magic to defeat 2 3rd gen DSers in their DF modes using unison raid (both of which are considered insane techniques in their own right), even if it wasn't originally his magic you would think that he would need LF/DF to even things out

ok 2 3rd gen DS with DF.. i don't see anything that make the DF unison raid insane.. Natsu beat it with his ultimate DS technique.. and that what happen. if Natsu just using his normal attack i can see what your point but he using his ultimate DS technique "crimson lotus exploding flame blade"


What did chapter kinda failed to answer is what exactly is white/shadow drive is. If it is a standard DS technique then wouldn't natsu and gajeel also be capable of it? Or perhaps it is a trait of third generation DS? Maybe it is a sort of preview for actual dragon force? It'd be interesting if this is the case and to see natsu and gajeel eventually use fire and iron drive. Or perhaps this is already similar to natsu covering his body in flames and gajeel using his iron scales.

it been said as to amplify magic power.. i just talking about the drive before but it seem like Natsu and Gazeel don't need it for now.:^_^ but i still wonder what they look like when they use the drive:zomg

Chris38
August 24, 2012, 02:30 PM
Well, I think that the problem that some people have with the current chapter is this - they just wanted to see Natsu struggle a little bit, against Rouge's and Sting's combined attacks, despite the fact that, from the beginning of the fight, Rouge and Sting have been portrayed as being weaker then Natsu and Gajeel, even when they went DF on them.

When that hasn't obviously occurred, well it left them pretty disappointed.

In my opinion, the chapter was pretty good, the fight wasn't dragged out, as much as I assumed, and we can finally start concentrating on the real plot of the current arc and it's real antagonists, which certainly aren't the ST guild members.

The only thing that I was disappointed about, is that Gajeel didn't have much role in the current fight, so I hope that Mashima will give him some role, against the "real" enemy of the current arc.

Edelheld
August 24, 2012, 03:06 PM
Pathetic.
What was the picture in previous chapter? Something about 83 characters, right? And in that arc 8 of them just has been trashed beyond any reason. So much hype with zero outcome, screw this.
Third asspull win by FT already somewhere in the middle of the arc, screw this.
WTF Sting and Rogue's fighting styles are the same? Have you all even seen past 2 chapters? Rogue attacked at close range trying to hit from out of sight. While Sting attacked from close mid range and tried to overwhelm with powerful attacks and straight hits. No way one can predict the movements of Rogue by Sting's movement. All that "learning fighting style" is just BS, screw this.
"Gajeel will get his spotlight obviously"? Screw this. We haven't seen real Gajeel since Fairy Festival. Will he live to this glorious day?
Prediction: the only way I'll accept throwing Gajeel off the fight is if that cart he's in will lead him to the Eclipse gate.

pain666
August 24, 2012, 03:14 PM
Haven't been disappointed in a Fairy Tail chapter in a while. Did not like how this fight ended. Felt more like a dragon ball Z fight. No strategy and just attacking head on. Natsu dominating two dragon slayers with DF? how does that make sense? Oh right, feelings. Natsu didn't struggle at all! it was extremely one sided because of this "feelings" garbage.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 24, 2012, 03:23 PM
Prediction: the only way I'll accept throwing Gajeel off the fight is if that cart he's in will lead him to the Eclipse gate.

I'd imagine the gate is in more of a soundly built room than an old mine, but if he somehow found a bath from the mines into that general area it would be pretty cool.

I'm actually not too bothered by the fact that Gajeel didn't get to help finish the battle. He still trumped Rogue at the beginning of the fight, and honestly I'm not a huge fan of his anyway so I kind of don't care about missed glory or crap like that. I just wish Natsu had taken a few more hits.

Roman
August 24, 2012, 03:25 PM
Natsu dominating two dragon slayers with DF? how does that make sense? Oh right, feelings. Natsu didn't struggle at all! it was extremely one sided because of this "feelings" garbage.

Did anyone even doubt that Natsu would win? All powers aside, those two punks were so cocky that they had it coming. It's a usual way of things in any manga. Also, it's not really that strange that Natsu beat the crap out of them. He and Gajeel are like masters to them. Their power in base state is simply high enough to counter their power in DF state. Which means that Natsu and Gajeel are gonna be beasts if they ever use DF, again.

moonster x
August 24, 2012, 03:41 PM
@moonster X i don't believe it boosted him for a short while. out curiosity when you say LF mode you are talking about the fire with lightning magic he uses when he get really serious?

i don't mean it just short like only when he use against Max.. but only temporary. and yeah.. LF mode = Lightning Flame mode

hoeru
August 24, 2012, 03:53 PM
She didn't actually say that second origin is used only once the primary container is depleted, merely that second origin exists and is dormant in most people.
You may look at the explaining picture then?


But power levels do exist, what about the existence of the S class mages?
"S rank" is only the admission to take on S rank missions. It's not necessarily a sign of being a strong mage. The Element Four of Phantom Lord were S rankers, so was Gajeel. Juvia was defeated by Gray, Sol by Elfman, Totomaru by a quick hit from Gray and Elfman after being duped by Natsu, and Gajeel was defeated by Natsu.

Mages may lose that admission any time: By losing their powers (Mira) or by becoming the member of a new guild (Gajeel, Juvia).


Holy Saints?
Again. That's more an accolade than a sign of a strength. Ull got it posthumously, Elsa would have gotten it posthumously. José and Gérard got it - José's was revoked on Phantom Lord being disbanded and Gérard's after the council was destroyed. Makarov and Jura aren't only strong but also versatile in combat. But still, Makarov was duped by Aria, Jura by Gemini/Angel.


Guild Masters?
That is simply the head of a guild. You can't possibly think that someone like Twilight Ogre's head Banaboster was actually strong at all.


You can't introduce a ranking system and say that power levels are meaningless.
I didn't say they were meaningless. They simply don't exist.

exacta
August 24, 2012, 03:55 PM
Wow Mashima actually went through with trolling Gajeel.....wow. Rogue didn't even really get to do much....we still don't even know what his deal is with Gajeel. Mashima doesn't do Gajeel justice at all, and Rogue pretty much acts like Sting's bitch. The Sting and Lector flashback was bland too. I mean, using Unison Raid was cool, but....the wall that can't be destroyed by power, but with feelings? Seriously Mashima? And Natsu's power is bottomless....BOTTOMLESS?????

How the hell did these clowns become the top guild.....their Dragonslayers fought Natsu at the same time with Dragon Force activated and they got trashed. Lamia Scale honestly looks like a stronger guild than Sabertooth to my eyes. All thats left is Minerva and the leader.

Chris38
August 24, 2012, 04:07 PM
manga stream's version of the chapter is out http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/23937849/1

exacta
August 24, 2012, 04:23 PM
After all this hype and waiting and the Third Gen Dragonslayers are hands down the weakest we've seen.......I'm not sure what to look forward to as far as the tourney goes now. I guess Kagura's fight and Minerva's fight? Rufus and Black lightning guy are screwed. Hopefully the Sabertooth guildmaster will fight Makarov in the future or something. I feel like he might not actually be a weak guildmaster.

dafuq
August 24, 2012, 04:33 PM
well i'm happy at least Natsu used one of his strongest technique which he used against laxus as a finishing move and gildarts who even take two steps back after that technique so if gildarts participated that tournament, those two punks would not even move gildarts 1 inch lol.
So just like i predicted their dragon force doesnt even close to natsu and other 1st generations dragon force cause they have achieved that force via their dragon lacrima just like 2nd generations laxus and cobra i mean look at that rogue's tiny ass roar in his df mode that alone proof to that. Mashima should stop doing hyped-up characters and constant trolling on gajeel i really wanted him to kicks some ass but nevermind with this way it would be more humiliating for sabertooth and looking forward for their guild master genma's decision about whether they will be expelled or not.

moonster x
August 24, 2012, 04:33 PM
but....the wall that can't be destroyed by power, but with feelings? Seriously Mashima? And Natsu's power is bottomless....BOTTOMLESS?????

hahaha.. that was only Mavis narrating her though.. sure Natsu power is above both of the dragon twin with DF.. and that kind of feeling that make Natsu become stronger (beside 2nd origin) i guess..:^_^
bottomless? no.. Rogue was weaker than Natsu that why he thinking like that.:cheez


How the hell did these clowns become the top guild.....their Dragonslayers fought Natsu at the same time with Dragon Force activated and they got trashed. Lamia Scale honestly looks like a stronger guild than Sabertooth to my eyes. All thats left is Minerva and the leader.

maybe it was because Jura and Lyon just enter the the tournament this year.. so that why not much competition for ST year ago :)

kidopitz27
August 24, 2012, 04:58 PM
i like the conclusion of the fight but i was really hoping that Natsu will use DF and saying that this is the complete DF and he will roar like when he fought Jellal and both Sting and Rouge will tremble in fear :)

Raicrune
August 24, 2012, 04:58 PM
Good chapter!
At first i tought it was a bit rushed. But after reading it again, it was not so bad after all.

Natsu has always been at his best if he used his emotions while fighting anyone.(shounen doh) And because Sabertooth laughed after what Minerva did to Lucy, Natsu went all out having that in his mind. Hence the power of feelings.

Besides that i believe Natsu has way more experience by having fought for his life and others.
Plus i think Natsu is better with Base Mode than Sting with his DF.

However, I am a bit dissapointed about Gajeel being left out... meh

SK-Hao
August 24, 2012, 05:50 PM
^

Agreed for an "epic battle" to come to that speedy a conclusion i can only feel a bit disappointed

Natsu is a jerk, he could at least have let Gajeel help. I never saw him as a showoff before.

KalelDaNinja11
August 24, 2012, 06:27 PM
my only complaint is the constant use of feelings, friendship being the source of everyone's power in this manga is beyond tiresome.

NAM61
August 24, 2012, 06:42 PM
i think this chapter was just suppose to show even more that the difference between them was a lot 2 chapter ago one of the judges said the difference between the DS was big. so i think he was true and the diffidence was even bigger then even the judge thought. i bet they dont even have their second origin opened and they just relied to much on the Lacrima.

FrostyMouse
August 24, 2012, 06:49 PM
You know, we complain when Fairy Tail gets trolled, such as what happened to Lucy against Flare, but this is not what I wanted to see. Natus won, so that's good, except for the fact that he utterly trashed two people who were using DF. I mean, is that all that they were capable of? I sort of expected a little more out of Sting and Rogue. They didn't even force Natsu to use Lightning Fire Dragon.

---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ----------

All in all, the point was to show that the power of friendship, the entire point of FT, is king, and we definitely saw that. Second Origin was probably worth even more than we thought, as they were crushing Sting and Rogue just normally. Second Origin + Nakama Power = Natsu should be stronger than Gemma.

NAM61
August 24, 2012, 06:52 PM
^

Agreed for an "epic battle" to come to that speedy a conclusion i can only feel a bit disappointed

Natsu is a jerk, he could at least have let Gajeel help. I never saw him as a showoff before.
he really did not need gajeel at the end so there was no point for both. i think this was the reason the author had gajeel out of the fight.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 24, 2012, 07:19 PM
Having Gajeel there would have made the victory a little less over the top, that's the reason the author should have had Gajeel in the fight. Getting taken out by one person makes Sting and Rogue look sort of weak.

Ah... Now I want to see Sting and Rogue getting an earful for losing to only one man. Sting already had his last warning too. I wonder if they'll kick him out before the final event. That would be a great break the haughty moment. Can they call in another reserve member or would they be competing with only 4 if they did that?

lawlett-kun
August 24, 2012, 07:32 PM
i dunno why we all complaining because when lucy got owned we, i know some of us me included, wanted natsu to completely overwhelm ST, just to look at stings and minerva wtfowned face.I mean we all knew this is gonna happen, yeah alright gajeel wasnt there for last 5 mins but he basically was there the whole fight.

GomuGomu_Getsuga
August 24, 2012, 07:42 PM
No, this shows how strong he has become since getting second origin, don't you remember at the start of the TS he could barely keep up with Max? and no he didn't learn about Rogue's fighting style, so him blocking their moves shows that taking the beating last chapter was pointless. The reason why people are annoyed is that we expected Natsu to at least break a sweat and go LF mode when faced with two mages who can use one of the most powerful techniques we've seen so far in the manga.

There is nothing wrong with the power he received from second origin. That is seven years of training and experience he missed out on. Would there be a problem if Sting was really strong enough to handle Natsu and Gazeel? I bet nobody found him overpowered when he just used Dragon Force like it was nothing.

Remember when Natsu and Laxus fought. Laxus took it very easy on Natsu and even let him get some blows in. There is no difference in what Natsu and Gazeel did to these two. They knew they were so much stronger that they probably just wanted to see what they were made of. Also think back to when Gildartz' daughter used Fairy Glitter. It is a strong technique but just because it is doesn't mean she could beat someone much much stronger than her with it. In other words just because they have DF doesn't mean they should be strong enough to beat Laxus or Gildartz. We've seen Natsu get his ass handed to him plenty of times and I'm sure we'll see it later on in this arc.

Just because Sting and Rouge are cool doesn't mean they should be strong.

I do think Gazeel deserved a damn good one on one against someone worthy.

zerocooldx
August 24, 2012, 09:33 PM
natsu won way to easily i could see him winning by himself if he had used his lightning flame dragon slayer magic but this was just him in base mode vs 2 dragon slayers in df, which allowed natsu to fight on par with a wizard saint. that was incredibly lame. not even getting into how bullshit it is that gajeel was side lined.

Yeah...this had an incredibly well done build up process with FT vs ST and the 1st Gen. DS vs 3nd Gen. DS. But after the first chapter of their battle this started to go down hill fast and in a hurry. This was about as anticlimactic of a fight as i've seen in a long time in any manga when you factor in how it was set up. The only reason this could have possibly happened was because of whats going to happen on the 7th day when all hell breaks loose and etc. But at the same time this was the pinnacle of FT vs ST in terms of emotions. I don't know. I hate to even think what Erza vs Minerva will be like and oh god Laxus vs Orga is going to be Laxus vs RT all over again. Curbstomping battles es no bueno.

laughing@you
August 24, 2012, 10:02 PM
I guess the drive thing works because of the element source. Theres light and shadows everywhere as to why sting and the other guy could activate white and shadow drive. Maybe if natsu was surrounded by fire he could activate a similar drive like sting.

But natsu is a real badass. Sabertooth got owned. I hope fairy tail ends this garbage build ...lol

JunKisaragi
August 24, 2012, 11:20 PM
Yay! Natsu took them off of their high horse. "True Dragon Slayers" my ass!

Anyhow, I guess Mashima just wanted to show the true gap between First and Third generation dragon slayers, which is further solidified by that missing "big finish".

Now all that's missing is for me to see Minerva being served a truckload of whoopass by Erza. :3

The whole "Power of Feelings" thing is what I've seen Fairy Tail to be all about anyway, and that's what sells it to me really.

THM Nindo
August 24, 2012, 11:39 PM
my only complaint is the constant use of feelings, friendship being the source of everyone's power in this manga is beyond tiresome.

What else could it be?
Would you prefer it if it was hatred? :tem

-Ken-
August 24, 2012, 11:41 PM
well i'm happy at least Natsu used one of his strongest technique which he used against laxus as a finishing move and gildarts who even take two steps back after that technique so if gildarts participated that tournament, those two punks would not even move gildarts 1 inch lol.

Of course they will after Sting break the entire floor XD. But yeah, those two won't even break Gildarts sweat.

Now I really want Gildarts to get second origin upgrade.

Poneglyph420
August 24, 2012, 11:54 PM
I'm personally glad that the significance of the 1st Generation DS wasn't "cheapened" by the 3rd Gen ability to access Dragon Force.. No doubt Sting and Rouge are strong and skillful as upstart mages, and have clearly earned their name. But clearly Natsu with second origin is in another class...
Not at all how I expected to see things go but regardless it was great.

In the end I'm glad that Natsu alone was able to defeat Sting and Rouge..
Though I wish Gazille did have a chance to show off a bit more..

---------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 PM ----------

I'm also curious about Second Origin. It might be the missing element to the mastery of magic.. I'm guessing many of the powerful mages like Gildartz, or Makarov have access to their own Second Origin...

I'm going out on a limb that Zeref or whoever it was crying was doing so based on seeing Natsu and his growth.. which again is likely based on Second Origin..

R3D
August 25, 2012, 12:07 AM
Sting and rouge made dragon force look cheap and weak , natsu made themlook like noobs who havr more bark than bite esp sting

SerpentTailedAngel
August 25, 2012, 12:08 AM
I'm going out on a limb that Zeref or whoever it was crying was doing so based on seeing Natsu and his growth.. which again is likely based on Second Origin..


Could be that he was really happy because he thought Natsu could finally "break" him... or maybe it still isn't good enough.

crimsonlink310
August 25, 2012, 12:10 AM
Ignoring the current debate about Natsu's power. :hip

The person in the cloak is probably a sign that the end of the arc is finally near. It is an omen of things to come. Hopefully Jellal manages to rip away the cloak so we can see his/her (most likely her) face as the next chapter implies.

So many theories are bouncing off my head. A future Lucy cursed with Zeref's powers, Zeref turned into a girl, another Zeref whose spirit has been fragmented into many different mages which includes the Zeref we saw on Tenroujima.

Future Lucy is my personal favorite as that might explain why she was crying but that would open a complicated can of worms I'm not sure most readers would be happy with lol.

Then again it might simply be a brand new character that is tied heavily to the Eclipse plan or Natsu.

Junior
August 25, 2012, 12:37 AM
I rarely bother posting anymore but this butthurt whining needs to stop.

Honestly. I am on page 5 or so on the thread right now and I can't take it. I have no real idea why people are so mad about this fight. Sting and Rogue were almost all hype. Their entire existence was built on:

"OOO NEW DRAGON SLAYERS! THEY LOOK COOL"
"AND THEY'RE IN SABERTOOTH! PEOPLE SAY THAT THE STRONGEST GUILD"

It was based on speculation an assumption. We thought they were forces to be reckoned with. We thought they were all powerful. We thought that being in the Top 5 of Sabertooth was supposed to mean something. . .

It doesn't. At least not to Fairy Tail.

People seem to be hung up on sting and rogue being in the Top 5 of sabertooth. Why does that mean anything? Nastu ran up in the Sabertooth's house, stomped on their couch, slapped their "father" around and lived to see another day. Tournament rules and regulations aside -- that says a lot.

We all hoped they would be badass but Sting turned out to be a pompous, arrogant asshole and Rogue...yeah.

Natsu and Gajeel fought them. Analyzed and beat them. That's how Natsu was able to avoid damn near every kick and punch.

Natsu ran through them like a hot knife through butter.

The End.

zahnskye
August 25, 2012, 12:42 AM
Ok, for EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO IS COMPLAINING BECAUSE THEY APPARENTLY HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO, let's use something MATH to describe WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW IT DID.

http://www.manga-access.com/manga/F/Fairy_Tail/chapter/263/20

Okay, there we have the explanation for what Second Origin is, and unlike Dragon Force or anything else, it ISN'T A POWER-UP. Ultear says it is kind of like one, but the major difference is that this is a permanent change and ALWAYS ACTIVE. Now, the explanation given is that it basically DOUBLES YOUR CURRENT MAGICAL POWER. Plus, magical power grows from being used, so emptying makes you stronger essentially. Last time we saw ACTUAL Dragon Force (not Lightning-Fire mode, which Natsu says doesn't have as much power) Natsu went from being unable to touch Hades, to forcing him to get serious.

Now for the math portion.

http://www.manga-access.com/manga/F/Fairy_Tail/chapter/160/3

Natsu here says he feels like his normal power has been doubled or tripled. Essentially, Second Origin has put him in a state of regularly being in something close in power to his original Dragon Force. As for the whole Sabertooth being strong thing? They aren't. They are not strong in the least. How can I be so sure? First, their members are all YOUNGER AND LESS EXPERIENCED than Fairy Tail. 7 years ago, Sting and Rogue were children. Plus, not only was Fairy Tail older at the time and more experienced, they ARE technically 7 years older than they appear because of the whole Tenrou ordeal. Natsu should look around 30. Sure, he doesn't, but he IS around that age. Plus, he came to Fairy Tail and has been taking on jobs there since he was about what, 10 years old? So, in terms of experience... the reason Fairy Tail was GONE for seven years is because they other guilds didn't stand a chance anymore. That seven years was for them to TRY and catch up. Which, clearly, no one has. Hell, I believe it is mentioned when Erza and Mira destroyed Ogre the only reason Fairy Tail took crap from Ogre is because they felt obligated to.

Fairy Tail is the standard for this world. Which makes sense, since the manga is called Fairy Tail. Anyone who can't understand that can go back to reading something else. Yes, Sabertooth was hyped, yes people will buy into the hype because they are ****ing morons, but if we look at the world with mathematical precision like the people complaining are claiming to do, everything kind of falls into place. Sabertooth is where Fairy Tail WOULD be if not for Second Origin. They are only considered strong because Fairy Tail was gone for seven years. Every match they HAVE won was done in either a bullshit way or because Fairy Tail was not present. Rufus won because Gray was being hounded by Raven in a game that was probably not his cup of tea ANYWAY. Orga won because he faced a weakling. Yukino lost, unfortunately, but that's because Mermaid girl is a plot point. Sting lost because he's a dumbass. Minerva seemed powerful, and stopped Natsu's attack. That actually was not due to the fact she was powerful, but because she had a surprise entrance and then captured Happy (who IS weak). Natsu ONLY BACKED DOWN BECAUSE OF THE DANGER TO HAPPY. Not because he couldn't take Minerva or Genma. I don't know how much more I have to say it. Oh, and Fairy Tail's losses so far? All came on technicalities or because something they couldn't control happened. Lucy lost because cheating is allowed. Gray lost because he was being harried... uh... did... someone else lose... in Fairy Tail...? Oh, right. Lucy lost because Minerva not only STOLE HER KEYS, but because Lucy is the only one who ever really loses something, being the viewpoint character of the series. Though that might change if Lucy dies at the end of this arc or whatever.

The only real problem with hyping the people who are douchebags is that in shounen manga like this douchebags don't tend to be at the top of the food chain. Jellal thought he was boss, and lost. Oracion Seis though they were boss, and lost (though they did pretty well). Edoloas thought they were boss... and lost completely. Hades thought he was boss... and lost. Seriously? Are people too stupid to notice the pattern? Sabertooth ISN'T STRONG. They think they are, but as anyone who fought Fairy Tail can tell you, you'd best not underestimate them. I'm just sad that Fairy Tail has the no killing thing going on, otherwise I could see some dead Sabers and that would make me so happy you guys can't even understand.

crimsonlink310
August 25, 2012, 12:52 AM
Wow lots of strong feelings over this chapter. Lets tone it down a bit please.

While it is annoying to see the QQers with no probable cause/reason. They have a right to voice their opinion on this forum. The best thing to do is ignore them and post discussion that doesn't add fuel to the fire.

Sage advice... let's please cool down the tone of your posts dear members. ~ghostexiled

dark angel KaRamo
August 25, 2012, 01:39 AM
Will for me i was ok with this fight because Fairy tail is about friends and loyal and how caring and friendship gives them power to over come anything, but what the f**k why couldn't they let gajeel get back in the fight.I thought Natsu was going to win anyway he has the Second Origin after all and has fought more battles then Sting or Rogue so more experience. Sting & Rogue's Dragon Force compare to Natsu new power up is no were close. Most Manga have a week big talk bad guy and if Natsu beat the crap out of them that's fine cause there not the Boss of this Arc, there just the guys to get Natsu and the rest of fairy tail ready for the real evil of the Arc.

REN KOUEN
August 25, 2012, 01:44 AM
i would have rather seen natsu do some typ oof transformation like the scales or dragon force

but it was still a good chapter

dark angel KaRamo
August 25, 2012, 01:44 AM
Now I really want Gildarts to get second origin upgrade.
I thing he already have his, with the enormous magical power he has he must be using his already, i also thing that's why Erza was the only one moving when Ultear was releasing there second origin, because she already was using hers but she did get a big boost as well.

R3D
August 25, 2012, 02:10 AM
I hope sting sacrifices himself to save lucy or something cuz his story is bs , i dont see him turning over a new leaf cuz than hell be like a gajeel copy.
.. and why does rouge carry his sword since he didnt even unseath it maybe he uses it to commit seppuku if he ever lost

DEATHBOTT
August 25, 2012, 02:26 AM
hype should lead to actual power. you can't hype a guild up and then have them beaten so easily. im now not looking forward to the other fights. sabertooth even if you get rid of fairy tail would probably not win this tounerment. i doubt sabertooth would beat blue pegasus and mermaid heel and certainly not lamia scale. thats two guilds in one tounerment being over hyped that have so far shown nothing. i think people have the right to be upset.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 25, 2012, 02:30 AM
I hope sting sacrifices himself to save lucy or something cuz his story is bs , i dont see him turning over a new leaf cuz than hell be like a gajeel copy.
.. and why does rouge carry his sword since he didnt even unseath it maybe he uses it to commit seppuku if he ever lost

He carries a sword because it looks cool.

Poor Rogue, though. I mean, he did brag about killing Skiadrum and we have yet to get the details on that, but he never took part in anything else that ticked Natsu off and still didn't even get to be defeated by the guy he'd been wanting to fight. Plus, he got used to punch Sting a few chapters ago. I guess it just sucks to be Sting's friend.

MechR
August 25, 2012, 03:03 AM
It was based on speculation an assumption. We thought they were forces to be reckoned with. We thought they were all powerful. We thought that being in the Top 5 of Sabertooth was supposed to mean something. . .
It was based on Sting beating Natsu and Gazille into the ground last week. It makes zero sense for regular Natsu to win against Sting and Rogue a week later. Move-reading doesn't even begin to cover it, considering
1) He hadn't properly fought Rogue yet, and
2) He straight-up overpowered a Dragon Force Unison Raid.


Last time we saw ACTUAL Dragon Force (not Lightning-Fire mode, which Natsu says doesn't have as much power) Natsu went from being unable to touch Hades, to forcing him to get serious.
What Natsu used against Hades was lightning-fire mode, not Dragon Force.


As for the whole Sabertooth being strong thing? They aren't. They are not strong in the least. How can I be so sure?This is gonna be long.


First, their members are all YOUNGER AND LESS EXPERIENCED than Fairy Tail.
1) That's incorrect, and
2) Age isn't always helpful. Luxus beat his father in one punch despite being younger and less experienced.


7 years ago, Sting and Rogue were children.14 years ago, Natsu and co. were children.


Plus, not only was Fairy Tail older at the time and more experienced, they ARE technically 7 years older than they appear because of the whole Tenrou ordeal. Natsu should look around 30. Sure, he doesn't, but he IS around that age.Which is completely irrelevant to powerlevels and experience because they spent the whole time asleep in suspended animation. Hell, Natsu is technically over 80, but that doesn't help him either.


Plus, he came to Fairy Tail and has been taking on jobs there since he was about what, 10 years old?See my "14 years ago" comment above. Natsu had 7 years of guild experience, then got frozen for 7 years while Sting and Rogue gained their 7 years of guild experience.


So, in terms of experience... the reason Fairy Tail was GONE for seven years is because they other guilds didn't stand a chance anymore. That seven years was for them to TRY and catch up. Which, clearly, no one has.
...
Fairy Tail is the standard for this world. Which makes sense, since the manga is called Fairy Tail. Anyone who can't understand that can go back to reading something else.That's what's called "wasted potential" from a storytelling POV. What's the point of giving the world time to catch up if FT just walks all over them even easier than before? Forget Sabertooth, I'm still mad as hell about Raven Tail. Years of real-world buildup and 7 years of in-universe prep time, all flushed down the toilet in one chapter.


Yes, Sabertooth was hyped, yes people will buy into the hype because they are ****ing morons,I have no words.


but if we look at the world with mathematical precision like the people complaining are claiming to do, everything kind of falls into place. Sabertooth is where Fairy Tail WOULD be if not for Second Origin. They are only considered strong because Fairy Tail was gone for seven years.No. Natsu without Second Origin couldn't even beat Max, who was around for all the previous Grand Magic Games that FT failed in.


Every match they HAVE won was done in either a bullshit way or because Fairy Tail was not present.Man, I'm tempted to skip this section, but...


Rufus won because Gray was being hounded by Raven in a game that was probably not his cup of tea ANYWAY.Rufus won because he hit everyone on the field, Gray included. Only Narpudding managed to dodge the first strike.


Orga won because he faced a weakling.He also got a pretty high score on the magic punching-bag, though we don't have enough references for that.


Minerva seemed powerful, and stopped Natsu's attack. That actually was not due to the fact she was powerful, but because she had a surprise entrance and then captured Happy (who IS weak). Natsu ONLY BACKED DOWN BECAUSE OF THE DANGER TO HAPPY. Not because he couldn't take Minerva or Genma. I don't know how much more I have to say it.Stopping Natsu's attack is still stopping Natsu's attack.


Oh, and Fairy Tail's losses so far? All came on technicalities or because something they couldn't control happened. Lucy lost because cheating is allowed. Gray lost because he was being harried...No rule against being harried. As far as we know, Narpudding humiliated Gray fair and square.


uh... did... someone else lose... in Fairy Tail...?Team A came last in the Sky Labyrinth prelims. Team B came in second, but Sabertooth still came first.


Oh, right. Lucy lost because Minerva not only STOLE HER KEYS, but because Lucy is the only one who ever really loses something, being the viewpoint character of the series. Though that might change if Lucy dies at the end of this arc or whatever.No rule against stealing her keys in combat. Lucy was definitely the underdog in that matchup though.


The only real problem with hyping the people who are douchebags is that in shounen manga like this douchebags don't tend to be at the top of the food chain.Uh, villains in shounen manga frequently are douchebags at the top of the food chain.


Jellal thought he was boss, and lost. Oracion Seis though they were boss, and lost (though they did pretty well). Edoloas thought they were boss... and lost completely. Hades thought he was boss... and lost. Seriously? Are people too stupid to notice the pattern?Except Natsu had to struggle really frickin' hard to win those fights, often even with temporary powerups, which was not the case this week. Plus, like I say, some of those guys pretty much were at the top of the food chain. FT only survived Grimoire Heart thanks to tons of luck + Hades being too lazy to Fairy Law the whole island at any time.


Sabertooth ISN'T STRONG. They think they are, but as anyone who fought Fairy Tail can tell you, you'd best not underestimate them. I'm just sad that Fairy Tail has the no killing thing going on, otherwise I could see some dead Sabers and that would make me so happy you guys can't even understand.Okay :oh

R3D
August 25, 2012, 03:07 AM
He carries a sword because it looks cool.

Poor Rogue, though. I mean, he did brag about killing Skiadrum and we have yet to get the details on that, but he never took part in anything else that ticked Natsu off and still didn't even get to be defeated by the guy he'd been wanting to fight. Plus, he got used to punch Sting a few chapters ago. I guess it just sucks to be Sting's friend.


He deserves it since he was one of those who just stood there and did nothing while yuki wad stripped and her guild logo removed

SerpentTailedAngel
August 25, 2012, 03:32 AM
They all seem to have a "don't screw with the master" sense ingrained into them. Everyone-even those who couldn't be more blatantly uncomfortable-stayed quiet while that happened. Rogue spoke against it once Gemma was gone. Sting laughed at it.

MechR
August 25, 2012, 03:33 AM
I do agree Rogue got gypped hard though, especially when his paper stats were higher than Sting's.

2 weeks ago:

Sting gets to paralyze Natsu with a special move, which fails.

Rogue gets to shout "Gaziiille!" before Gazille punches him in the face.

Also Natsu grabbing his face and plowing him into his partner, heh.

1 week ago:

Sting gets to fight 1-on-2 while Rogue watches.

This week:

Rogue shares a beatdown with Sting even though Natsu hadn't seen his moves yet.

protomelvin
August 25, 2012, 04:07 AM
I think Sting and Rogue will get to show off a bit more later on when whatever the Ryuuousai (Dragon King Festival?) goes down. Besides, Sabretooth isn't the real big bad of the whole tournament anyways, it's those guys who are planning to start stuff up with the eclipse and Lucy. I just reread all the chapters starting from when the tournament started and I felt that things progressed in a pretty natural way. Time and time again, it was shown that Sting completely underestimated Natsu, and Fairy Tail's abilities, so it's not really that big of a surprise that Fairy Tail came out on top. I think people were too concerned with the fact that a 7 year gap meant that everyone else was SO stronger.

The Fairy Tail members who WERE around for the 7 years mentioned that the reason they kept losing at the tournament was that they were overall unlucky, and key members that could've helped them win weren't there. Even if Max was strong enough to fight with Natsu evenly, having only one decent member isn't enough to become one of the strongest guilds in Fiore. Also, the remaining members were probably the least rowdiest and least forceful of all of Fairy Tail, so it's not unlikely that they would've slipped from the top spot and not bothered enough to retake it.

Anyways, just my thoughts having just reread the last 30-some chapters lol

hoeru
August 25, 2012, 05:10 AM
my only complaint is the constant use of feelings, friendship being the source of everyone's power in this manga is beyond tiresome.

It's even more tiresome to read statements like these each time readers stumble upon filling dialogue. Mashima already stated that "friendship" is a major topic of the manga last year:


Loyalty to family and friends is a frequent theme running throughout Fairy Tail. Is this also something you feel passionate about?

Absolutely. My friends have helped me a lot in the past, and that's something I wanted to directly show in this manga. And that was the beginning of Fairy Tail actually. But, because I've so busy lately, my list of friends in my cell phone has been quickly edited down (laughs).

(Source: Anime News Network ('http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2011-11-08/interview-hiro-mashima'))



Having Gajeel there would have made the victory a little less over the top, that's the reason the author should have had Gajeel in the fight. Getting taken out by one person makes Sting and Rogue look sort of weak.

Sting wasn't able to harm Gajeel and Natsu seriously even while using DF. The fight was decided once FT got back on their feet.


A future Lucy cursed with Zeref's powers, Zeref turned into a girl, another Zeref whose spirit has been fragmented into many different mages which includes the Zeref we saw on Tenroujima.
Others that come into my mind are either Layla or Levy - the latter may have been hinted by the narration.


i doubt sabertooth would beat blue pegasus and mermaid heel and certainly not lamia scale.
It's already a given that Saber Tooth is stronger than them by the first pages after the timeskip where Lamia announced them to be the number 2 behind Saber. Lamia was not able to beat them.


It was based on Sting beating Natsu and Gazille into the ground last week. It makes zero sense for regular Natsu to win against Sting and Rogue a week later.
Why are you guys completely ignoring the last pages of the previous chapters? Natsu and Gajeel got back on their feet literally being unharmed aside from scratches (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v26/c295/23.html). There weren't any injuries to them. Dragon Force didn't have much effect aside from destroying the battle ground.

moonster x
August 25, 2012, 05:13 AM
It was based on Sting beating Natsu and Gazille into the ground last week. It makes zero sense for regular Natsu to win against Sting and Rogue a week later. Move-reading doesn't even begin to cover it, considering
1) He hadn't properly fought Rogue yet, and
2) He straight-up overpowered a Dragon Force Unison Raid.

i don't know why you say regular Natsu. he just power up by 2nd origin that double or triple his power.. that not regular at all.
1) maybe their pattern of attack just the same with each other.. just overpowered with DF
2)double or triple magic power used in the Ultimate technique.. (i said this point more than twice already)


What Natsu used against Hades was lightning-fire mode, not Dragon Force.

yeah.. you right about that.



1) That's incorrect, and
2) Age isn't always helpful. Luxus beat his father in one punch despite being younger and less experienced.

1)yup.. age not the reason but experience are
2)doesn't seem to me Ivan got many experiences in combat but Luxus sure did got much experiences in that area.


14 years ago, Natsu and co. were children.

sure they are but Sting and Rogue are hmm.. a baby?


Which is completely irrelevant to powerlevels and experience because they spent the whole time asleep in suspended animation. Hell, Natsu is technically over 80, but that doesn't help him either.

but it seem both of dragon twin power just like Natsu and Gazeel 7 years ago.. maybe a above a little with the drive and DF. i don't think Natsu age are around or over 80.


See my "14 years ago" comment above. Natsu had 7 years of guild experience, then got frozen for 7 years while Sting and Rogue gained their 7 years of guild experience.

same with my answer above.


That's what's called "wasted potential" from a storytelling POV. What's the point of giving the world time to catch up if FT just walks all over them even easier than before? Forget Sabertooth, I'm still mad as hell about Raven Tail. Years of real-world buildup and 7 years of in-universe prep time, all flushed down the toilet in one chapter.

they did catch up a little but with the old FT and the new one is out of reach..


No. Natsu without Second Origin couldn't even beat Max, who was around for all the previous Grand Magic Games that FT failed in.

you just answer yourself why Natsu gotten strong enough to defeat both of dragon twin. sure Max is gotten better but it seem the competition in the tournament is not usually the same.. it changing every year.


Man, I'm tempted to skip this section, but...

just skip it:noworry but it seem you won't :)


Rufus won because he hit everyone on the field, Gray included. Only Narpudding managed to dodge the first strike.

well his magic kinda useful for the competition.


He also got a pretty high score on the magic punching-bag, though we don't have enough references for that.

and Laxus just smile when he see that. excited maybe?


Stopping Natsu's attack is still stopping Natsu's attack.

sure.. her magic kinda convenient to transfering any strong attack into another place..


No rule against being harried. As far as we know, Narpudding humiliated Gray fair and square.

Gray sure doesn't suitable and hopeless for that kind of competition..


Team A came last in the Sky Labyrinth prelims. Team B came in second, but Sabertooth still came first.

that for the hype..:p the prelims not about the battle but about how can they find the path.. sure worst for team FT A:teehee


No rule against stealing her keys in combat. Lucy was definitely the underdog in that matchup though.

yeah.. but i think only cowards can do that. maybe it a tactics to win but that sure cowardice act.


Uh, villains in shounen manga frequently are douchebags at the top of the food chain.

hmm....


Except Natsu had to struggle really frickin' hard to win those fights, often even with temporary powerups, which was not the case this week. Plus, like I say, some of those guys pretty much were at the top of the food chain. FT only survived Grimoire Heart thanks to tons of luck + Hades being too lazy to Fairy Law the whole island at any time.

it a hero luck.. but the struggle worth a praise.. sometimes the top not always on the top.. that for sure.. Hades is ex FT master but he just underestimate FT himself.. lazy to Fairy Law eh.. what a lazy villain.


Okay :oh

:smile-big

R3D
August 25, 2012, 05:45 AM
I wonder if max could beat either sting or rouge since natsu jas to use ligjtning against him before his power up and no lightning after power up against sting n rouge

TauCarlos
August 25, 2012, 05:59 AM
I rarely bother posting anymore but this butthurt whining needs to stop.

Honestly. I am on page 5 or so on the thread right now and I can't take it. I have no real idea why people are so mad about this fight. Sting and Rogue were almost all hype. Their entire existence was built on:

"OOO NEW DRAGON SLAYERS! THEY LOOK COOL"
"AND THEY'RE IN SABERTOOTH! PEOPLE SAY THAT THE STRONGEST GUILD"

It was based on speculation an assumption. We thought they were forces to be reckoned with. We thought they were all powerful. We thought that being in the Top 5 of Sabertooth was supposed to mean something. . . It doesn't. At least not to Fairy Tail.

People seem to be hung up on sting and rogue being in the Top 5 of sabertooth. Why does that mean anything? Nastu ran up in the Sabertooth's house, stomped on their couch, slapped their "father" around and lived to see another day. Tournament rules and regulations aside -- that says a lot.

What's amusing is that there is no speculation or assumption since these games have been going on for awhile stated by both Jellal and the other FT members and each time ST was the victor FT was dead last. That's a fact. Even if you consider that it was only cause FT's top members were MIA other guilds still had their strongest some even considered to be either on par or stronger than FT's top yet still ST held the title as strongest. That is fact. It's been said that Sabertooth's rise to power was cause of 5 specific members which can only mean their top 5 is the reason ST is even considered to be the strongest guild.



We all hoped they would be badass but Sting turned out to be a pompous, arrogant asshole and Rogue...yeah.

So being an asshole means you're a weakling in this manga? Imo Gajeel and Jellal were far bigger dicks than those twins yet I don't seem them being trashed 2 v 1.



Natsu and Gajeel fought them. Analyzed and beat them. That's how Natsu was able to avoid damn near every kick and punch.

Natsu ran through them like a hot knife through butter.

The End.

You see that would make a lot more sense till you had a DF unison being overpowered by a normal state Natsu. Completely contradicts last chapter where Natsu can't so much as guard against a single DF user.

Honestly though I wouldn't have cared less if Natsu had wiped the floor with them all the way through from the beginning. But when you start throwing in DF mode, Shocked looks all over, Natsu and Gajeel getting beat by one person then expect me to just accept this fight conclusion like this? You kinda gotta call shit writing for what it is at some point.

Roman
August 25, 2012, 06:05 AM
I can't believe that someone actually thought that those two douchebags had any chance of winning. It doesn't matter if they were using DF when their base state power is lower than low in comparison to Natsu and Gajeel. Their experience is too much for couple of kids. Killed their dragons my ass. Imagine what they would do to them if they had DF or if Natsu entered Lightning/Fire mode. Oh but yeah, there was no need to.

shuha27
August 25, 2012, 07:02 AM
Happy how Sabertooth was dealt with. They really deserved to get embarrassed. Now I wanna see Erza or even one of the guild members to take care of Minerva for what she did for Lucy. Sabertooth deserves it!

moonster x
August 25, 2012, 07:06 AM
Honestly though I wouldn't have cared less if Natsu had wiped the floor with them all the way through from the beginning. But when you start throwing in DF mode, Shocked looks all over, Natsu and Gajeel getting beat by one person then expect me to just accept this fight conclusion like this? You kinda gotta call shit writing for what it is at some point.

oh come on.. it your right to accept or not.. stop bashing the author if the story doesn't make into your taste.
sure Mavis,Makarov and Gerard surprise by the at will DF but i don't see Natsu and Gazeel shocked all over like the others.. they take the hit , getting up with an injury all over except it not serious one.. and after Natsu estimate how strong Sting is he got conclusion that by himself just enough..
Natsu beat 2 DF user without any boost or other external help is the only think you guys cannot accept.. but it happen.. just accept it.. even if you don't like it.

TauCarlos
August 25, 2012, 07:17 AM
Ok, for EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO IS COMPLAINING BECAUSE THEY APPARENTLY HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO,

Haha the irony of this is seriously killing me


let's use something MATH to describe WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW IT DID.

http://www.manga-access.com/manga/F/Fairy_Tail/chapter/263/20

Okay, there we have the explanation for what Second Origin is, and unlike Dragon Force or anything else, it ISN'T A POWER-UP. Ultear says it is kind of like one, but the major difference is that this is a permanent change and ALWAYS ACTIVE. Now, the explanation given is that it basically DOUBLES YOUR CURRENT MAGICAL POWER. Plus, magical power grows from being used, so emptying makes you stronger essentially. Last time we saw ACTUAL Dragon Force (not Lightning-Fire mode, which Natsu says doesn't have as much power) Natsu went from being unable to touch Hades, to forcing him to get serious.

Well for one I'm pretty sure that DF and second origin aren't really comparable to begin with and the way you're interpreting it is even more complicated than the way Urtear explains. I'll simplify it Mage has one large Jug of juice (Juice being magic power) Juice is used by mage to cast spell. When spell is cast juice is consumed till no more is left. Urtear power up gives mage another Jug of juice. Mage with 2 Jugs of juice means more casts or larger casts i.e more consumption or larger consumption of Juice without hitting empty as fast as a Mage with one Jug. So no, empty Jugs means you would be useless not stronger. Perhaps you mean one consuming large amounts of juice constantly in training would make your Jug bigger otherwise nothing else fits.

Now, I don't see how DF can be compared to that since the only times it's activated it doesn't give more rather it requires a large amount of juice to be consumed, juice that only Natsu can get not from his jug but from outside sources. By the way Natsu never used DF on Hades.



Now for the math portion.

http://www.manga-access.com/manga/F/Fairy_Tail/chapter/160/3

Natsu here says he feels like his normal power has been doubled or tripled. Essentially, Second Origin has put him in a state of regularly being in something close in power to his original Dragon Force.

I'm just going to ignore the first part of this as I've already explained to you that DF and SO are not alike or comparable.



As for the whole Sabertooth being strong thing? They aren't. They are not strong in the least. How can I be so sure? First, their members are all YOUNGER AND LESS EXPERIENCED than Fairy Tail. 7 years ago, Sting and Rogue were children. Plus, not only was Fairy Tail older at the time and more experienced, they ARE technically 7 years older than they appear because of the whole Tenrou ordeal. Natsu should look around 30. Sure, he doesn't, but he IS around that age.

Aww man do I have to explain the concept of stasis to you as well? Simple no change happens what so ever to anything that is trapped in stasis. That means the subject/object neither gains nor loses experience or age. Which means that while Natsu remained unchanged Sting and the rest of the world were changing.



Plus, he came to Fairy Tail and has been taking on jobs there since he was about what, 10 years old? So, in terms of experience... the reason Fairy Tail was GONE for seven years is because they other guilds didn't stand a chance anymore. That seven years was for them to TRY and catch up. Which, clearly, no one has. Hell, I believe it is mentioned when Erza and Mira destroyed Ogre the only reason Fairy Tail took crap from Ogre is because they felt obligated to.

You have next to no idea how any Sabertooth members even became Mages or what experiences they have gone through in not only the last 7 years but even before that. And as far as the 7 years to catch up statement you're pretty much calling the writer out for bad script since the reason other guilds have to "catch up" are cause he screwed them over by having FT win simply because they're "Nakama" regardless of their strengths .

Regardless though are we not back to where we started? isn't FT so ridiculously ahead because of power ups that makes no sense? The Time-skip is no longer useful to anyone anymore am I right?



Fairy Tail is the standard for this world. Which makes sense, since the manga is called Fairy Tail. Anyone who can't understand that can go back to reading something else. Yes, Sabertooth was hyped, yes people will buy into the hype because they are ****ing morons, but if we look at the world with mathematical precision like the people complaining are claiming to do, everything kind of falls into place. Sabertooth is where Fairy Tail WOULD be if not for Second Origin. They are only considered strong because Fairy Tail was gone for seven years. Every match they HAVE won was done in either a bullshit way or because Fairy Tail was not present. Rufus won because Gray was being hounded by Raven in a game that was probably not his cup of tea ANYWAY. Orga won because he faced a weakling. Yukino lost, unfortunately, but that's because Mermaid girl is a plot point. Sting lost because he's a dumbass. Minerva seemed powerful, and stopped Natsu's attack. That actually was not due to the fact she was powerful, but because she had a surprise entrance and then captured Happy (who IS weak). Natsu ONLY BACKED DOWN BECAUSE OF THE DANGER TO HAPPY. Not because he couldn't take Minerva or Genma. I don't know how much more I have to say it. Oh, and Fairy Tail's losses so far? All came on technicalities or because something they couldn't control happened. Lucy lost because cheating is allowed. Gray lost because he was being harried... uh... did... someone else lose... in Fairy Tail...? Oh, right. Lucy lost because Minerva not only STOLE HER KEYS, but because Lucy is the only one who ever really loses something, being the viewpoint character of the series. Though that might change if Lucy dies at the end of this arc or whatever.

Just going to skip this........... It would take me forever to diagree with everything you said up there.



The only real problem with hyping the people who are douchebags is that in shounen manga like this douchebags don't tend to be at the top of the food chain. Jellal thought he was boss, and lost. Oracion Seis though they were boss, and lost (though they did pretty well). Edoloas thought they were boss... and lost completely. Hades thought he was boss... and lost. Seriously? Are people too stupid to notice the pattern? Sabertooth ISN'T STRONG. They think they are, but as anyone who fought Fairy Tail can tell you, you'd best not underestimate them. I'm just sad that Fairy Tail has the no killing thing going on, otherwise I could see some dead Sabers and that would make me so happy you guys can't even understand.

Yeah I'll skip this too as well

Chris38
August 25, 2012, 07:35 AM
On the Mysterious person / Zeref discussion, has any of you considered the possibility that it's Zeref with a changed outfit, but since most of the main characters in Fairy Tail had an outfit change, why can't the same apply to their antagonists and the changes in his aura are simply caused by the fact that, he has forgotten about the significance of human life, in the Tenrou Island arc.

After all, if I'm not mistaken Ultear was never around Zeref, during the time where he killed Hades, and since forgetting about the significance of human life has been enough to allow Zeref to control his magic again, we can't discount the possibility that it has caused some subtle changes in his aura.

At least that's one of the possible explanations on how the mysterious person, could be Zeref.

tobeulp
August 25, 2012, 08:19 AM
Love all the hate on this chapter lol this just proves on how good Mashima on writing a good impression on villain and troll people... Seriously it has been done a lot of times Oracion Seis/Grimoire Heart are the two best hype villains and they just go down now next trolling for Mashima is Raven Tail the suppose to be Fairy Tail counterpart trolled by a single member now what do you expect?

Are you serious on thinking that Sting and Rogue can win because chapter 294 they are already trolling them without even using anything so you think Natsu should have se Dragon Force/Lighting mode to prove that Sting and Rogue... For me I am looking far ahead because if Natsu already use DF/Lightning mode here the next enemies will be the same old Nakama power up so I think Mashima is saving this for the next enemy rather than show it now when after chapter 294 we all know Sting and Rogue didn't have a chance.

Now for the discussion who do you guys think will be the next fight? is it 2v2 again?? For me I hope Erza vs Minerva already I just think Minerva is the only one that can make a Fairy Tail member run for their money

Chris38
August 25, 2012, 09:00 AM
Now for the discussion who do you guys think will be the next fight? is it 2v2 again?? For me I hope Erza vs Minerva already I just think Minerva is the only one that can make a Fairy Tail member run for their money

No, it's not, since the current fight has been the last fight of the day:

http://i21.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/292/fairy-tail-3465553.jpg

After this fight we will get a one day break, during which we will probably have a resolution of some of the subplots of the current arc, and after that there will be an unknown battle event, where all the 5 members of the team are going to participate, and where we will, most likely see the other foreshadowed fights against the ST members.

In other words, there is still going to be some time, before the rest of the "tournament fights" are going to take place.

As for the sequence of the fights I think they will go like they where foreshadowed on those pages:

http://i21.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/292/fairy-tail-3465553.jpg (http://i35.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/292/fairy-tail-3465565.jpg)

http://i3.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/292/fairy-tail-3465567.jpg

In other words, after the Natsu X Gajeel battle against Rouge and Sting, we will have the Gray vs Rufus battle, after this we will have the fight between Erza and Minerva, and at last we will have the fight between Laxus and Orga.

Naturally, during that event Lucy is going to be kidnapped in some way, which would put the whole Eclipse Gate plan into motion.

At least that's my assumption on how things are going to develop.

Heriko
August 25, 2012, 09:35 AM
Hey there,
the chapter was really fine for me.
I have absolutly no problem with Natsu beating these two guys.
It was an awesome fight. I also have no problem with Gajeel not fighting.
Maybe Gajeel and Rogue show their skills later.
I am looking forward to Erzas, Laxus and Greys Fights, but i really wanna see Grey fight.

But I am amazed, that no one (from what I read) had the idea,
that the girl in the beginning could be Yukino in a royal clothing,
who is dropping tears because of Natsu trashing Sting and Rogue.
I mean, it could be possible, but who knows. Maybe completly wrong :D

Expletivebmp
August 25, 2012, 09:37 AM
Honestly though I wouldn't have cared less if Natsu had wiped the floor with them all the way through from the beginning. But when you start throwing in DF mode, Shocked looks all over, Natsu and Gajeel getting beat by one person then expect me to just accept this fight conclusion like this? You kinda gotta call shit writing for what it is at some point.

I disagree, Natsu simply wasn't into it. Happens all the time. fighting at your best depends on your heart. if you're really into it then you'd win because as we've seen, Natsu has a lot of heart for his guild. So this hyper power wasn't pulled out of thin air. Christ, if anything this fight was a foregone conclusion. HOW OFTEN has Natsu pulled a victory out of his ass because of his love for his friends and guild? Answer, ALMOST BLOODY ALWAYS! So why the unbelievablenss of this fight's outcome?

moonster x
August 25, 2012, 09:47 AM
this is how DF force should be although it just a temporary.. i bet it still not enough to defeat real dragon.:gwah

http://i39.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/161/fairy-tail-1003969.jpg

i don't see any force in Rogue and Sting DF that they proud of. it look like only their appearance just like dragon but not force or strength..

i am not sure if the one that crying at early page is Zeref but he really is a crybaby.. and it seem the tear just fall about when Natsu show how awesome he is..:zomg or tear because of Gazeel..:XD

REN KOUEN
August 25, 2012, 10:39 AM
hype should lead to actual power. you can't hype a guild up and then have them beaten so easily. im now not looking forward to the other fights. sabertooth even if you get rid of fairy tail would probably not win this tounerment. i doubt sabertooth would beat blue pegasus and mermaid heel and certainly not lamia scale. thats two guilds in one tounerment being over hyped that have so far shown nothing. i think people have the right to be upset.

im ok with raventail being overhyped because thet played so.dirty

i agree about being dissapointed in sabertooth

DEATHBOTT
August 25, 2012, 11:04 AM
It's already a given that Saber Tooth is stronger than them by the first pages after the timeskip where Lamia announced them to be the number 2 behind Saber. Lamia was not able to beat them.


neither jura or lyon and probably chelia fought in the tournerments until now so yeah maybe not mermaid heel and bluepegusus (though hibiki did own bacchus in one hit and the rest of blue pegusus seem pretty capable) but lamia scale is definitely more powerful than sabertooth jura would shit on them by himself.

yellowblue
August 25, 2012, 11:35 AM
Didn't Natsu mentioned that he already knew their attack pattern? Natsu just have a more quality battle experience when he was with FairyTail. Rouge and Sting grew up on a pretty stable time period where there were less incidents and dark guild activity. The last 7 peaceful years were paved way partly by the hard battles fought by Natsu and the FairyTail guild. Of course Natsu will end up more powerful than the two even when they are combined. If the three lived on the same time period and all belong to FT, Natsu might not stand a chance against a single 3rd gen DS.

shnugin
August 25, 2012, 11:43 AM
I guess the swords are just for show? but judging with how Rogue uses the shadows to appear and disappear to nail an attack, I'd say the swords are for assassination techniques. Probably why it wasn't used in the tournament, its not like he wants to kill anyone there.

Great chapter! If Natsu lost then how the hell would you expect him to beat a bigger bad later on? He had to win because the crazier boss will probably come out later and THATS when he'll have trouble and would need help.

TobiOrNotTobi
August 25, 2012, 01:16 PM
I guess the swords are just for show? but judging with how Rogue uses the shadows to appear and disappear to nail an attack, I'd say the swords are for assassination techniques. Probably why it wasn't used in the tournament, its not like he wants to kill anyone there.

Great chapter! If Natsu lost then how the hell would you expect him to beat a bigger bad later on? He had to win because the crazier boss will probably come out later and THATS when he'll have trouble and would need help.

It's not like Natsu will loose to anyone, a bit of struggling at some point but that's it, don't forget he has the "power of feelings"! And that's the ultimate power in FT. Smh...

This chapter was boring to me, it offered nothing new. The fight was expected to end like this. So yeah.

Roman
August 25, 2012, 01:33 PM
I think that "power of feelings" is taken to literally here. Of course he didn't beat them with just a wish from his deep, warm heart. He had the power like he always does. Denying it is pointless since he's probably the strongest DS.

masgrande
August 25, 2012, 01:47 PM
Sabertooth finally got a humaliating defeat they deserve and they aren't number one anymore and best of it really is Sting's fault lol. Right now I hope we get to see who girl Zeref is next chapter and not have to wait two or three chapters for it.

ps: Fairy Tail is finally going to surpass Rave Master chapters next week:^_^.

Kuza
August 25, 2012, 02:46 PM
As an outcome from this match I wanna predict 1 thing. Genma will probably try to punush the duo or atleast Sting possibly by beating crap out of him/them or just by humiliating. Natsu will stand up for them, start fight with Genma and this time Genma would show his real power.. BUT Makarov goes in and slam his face in the ground. Don't know where this could lead but I just see this scene :D
FT may be disqualified for this btw, so in the end they show that they are top 1 but get disqualified cause too badass, just random thoughts..

hoeru
August 25, 2012, 02:53 PM
ps: Fairy Tail is finally going to surpass Rave Master chapters next week:^_^.

I expect a note next issue, and maybe some RAVE cameos, too? :D


Honestly though I wouldn't have cared less if Natsu had wiped the floor with them all the way through from the beginning. But when you start throwing in DF mode, Shocked looks all over, Natsu and Gajeel getting beat by one person then expect me to just accept this fight conclusion like this? You kinda gotta call shit writing for what it is at some point.

Again for you: Neither Natsu nor Gajeel took any real damage from Sting's DF attacks. They wiped the floor with Sting and Rogue the whole time. Normal attacks had no effect on FT, Drive attacks had no effect, nor did DF attacks. Nothing Sting and Rogue threw at Natsu and Gajeel had any effect. :-_-


jura would shit on them by himself.

There's absolutely zero need to throw feces into the forums over your disappointment - especially as Jura isn't the character to "shit" on others.

TauCarlos
August 25, 2012, 02:54 PM
You're right I am being a little harsh on the author without good cause since I've always liked his writing in general but not so much how he writes his antagonists out.

So last thing I'll say on this is that I hope DF mode doesn't get demeaned from this point on as it's been the strongest force other than dragon power itself yet seen till this chapter. I'm just sad to see a villain not awe me when they have access to this power simply because they aren't FT. It makes me respect Natsu's own power a little less even and that's just how I feel.

TobiOrNotTobi
August 25, 2012, 03:16 PM
I think that "power of feelings" is taken to literally here. Of course he didn't beat them with just a wish from his deep, warm heart. He had the power like he always does Denying it is pointless since he's probably the strongest DS.

That would be the worst "set stone" in any series whatsoever. Why bother to have enemys then?

The problem that i have is that regardless of what new enemys FT has to face, i won't feel excited about them nor will i expect them to be a treath anymore no matter how strong and powerful they may be. Also not to mention, Stings reason to fight Natsu in the first place?

Hiros writing ability isn't bad or crappy but simple, too simple for my taste.

Edelheld
August 25, 2012, 05:47 PM
Yeah, from now on we can't even guess the real outcome of any fight with any enemy. Any character can fail miserably or win easily no matter the hype, title, assumed strength or logic. There's just no more laws in this manga besides the plot. What kind of monstrous enemies we have to see in this manga to pose any threat to Fairy Tail from now on?
I've lost all interest in the fights in this manga. There is nothing to it besides fan service anymore.

GomuGomu_Getsuga
August 25, 2012, 07:24 PM
I like the fact that characters don't win purely on how cool they are. What is the fun in already knowing how fights are supposed to go? I love how the author keeps us on our toes this way. If this show was about fan-service then I'm sure Sting would have defeated Natsu and Gazeel at the same time. If Sting had shown any real sign of strength like...beating Grey or Mirajane then I would be mad like others. Besides looking cool and talking big there has been nothing to show him being a match for any S-Class in Fairy Tail.

I want to see how strong Natsu is compared to Laxus or Mist Gun now.

amitnaruto
August 25, 2012, 08:04 PM
Hello
I am new here and this is my first time posting.
Personally I was amazed with the chapter I thought it was epic and a perfect ending. Remember Lector was the one who initially challenged natsu and gajeel to a 1 on 2 and therefore natsu gave a full fledged fitting reply by kill hauling them both. Had the author not done that we'd all complain that natsu and gajeel are weaker then sting and lector making sabertooth number one again something the author and we don't want. Also we know that natsu is the main character and so he must by default be the most powerful character. In my eyes his only true competition is with gajeel.
.
we also have to remember that natsu is a magician/wizard (whichever you prefer) but people tend to forget one thing, emotions, feelings, will and instinct are what make people strong. Strong enough to beat their opponents and overcome their own limitations and weaknesses in life. Natsu fighting style is based on this very foundation. Natsu fights for his friends but in reality fights to protect their honor and feelings and his own reputation, not to mention he always fights on the side of truth and justice. The truly amazing and perhaps awe inspiring thing is natsu always goes over the edge with a destructive fiery touch which is the most important thing and what we want to see.

As for this being a simple battle where natsu didn't go all out, we already knew that natsu is more poweful then ever before and will need to be when he fights zeref an sabertooth and possibly other crazier villains (set up for the next arc). rememer sting and lector are weak and unforgiving characters, they don't deserve any sympathy and got what they deserved.

in my personal opinion if anyone wants to see a main character get beaten up badly and actually loose, in general manga is the worst place to be, rather marvel and dc comics offers this beautifully. Here in manga, it is as the indian mythological saying goes "satyavam jayate" in other words truth always wins, anyone on the side of truth/righteousness (i.e natsu/FT even naruto, bleach, one piece) will always win, this is the especially true with fairy tail and we shouldn't complain about that. the author wants us to learn an important and perhaps valuable life lesson here. SORRY for any spelling guys i'm new here and this is my opinion)

zerocooldx
August 25, 2012, 08:23 PM
Happy how Sabertooth was dealt with. They really deserved to get embarrassed. Now I wanna see Erza or even one of the guild members to take care of Minerva for what she did for Lucy. Sabertooth deserves it!

Well Minerva and especially Orga individually are going to have to be stronger then both Sting and Rogue combined otherwise we're not going to get any types of battles other then FT stomping ST all over again like Natsu just did. Its funny that after all of the complaining about Grey being apart of the "strongest" FT team that at least at this point he is probably going to be the only one that has a legitimate and real battle against Rufus.

Krono
August 25, 2012, 09:14 PM
Any character can fail miserably or win easily no matter the hype, title, assumed strength or logic.

In other words, you can't rely on empty praise, empty boasts, or speculation based on them to have an idea of the outcome. Instead, you have to rely on actual feats, and concrete demonstrations of power.

That's not exactly a bad thing.

kidopitz27
August 25, 2012, 10:32 PM
That is why Gildarts is not included on the Arc because it will be like a walk in the park for FT :) i hope there is a another level to Second origin :) (third Origin hehehehe)

moonster x
August 25, 2012, 11:36 PM
You're right I am being a little harsh on the author without good cause since I've always liked his writing in general but not so much how he writes his antagonists out.

So last thing I'll say on this is that I hope DF mode doesn't get demeaned from this point on as it's been the strongest force other than dragon power itself yet seen till this chapter. I'm just sad to see a villain not awe me when they have access to this power simply because they aren't FT. It makes me respect Natsu's own power a little less even and that's just how I feel.

DF is said to be the strongest and it a final form of DS magic, if it can be obtain so easily our hero here doesn't need external energy (etherion) that contains extremely powerful magic. the lachryma they have sure help them to gained much energy but not really that much. if you said simply because they aren't FT sure it is, because that what manga title we read..:) but the 3rd gen crap sure not impressive at all. i think the so called 2nd gen so much better than them.. although they only have lachryma and not dragon parent.


That would be the worst "set stone" in any series whatsoever. Why bother to have enemys then?

The problem that i have is that regardless of what new enemys FT has to face, i won't feel excited about them nor will i expect them to be a treath anymore no matter how strong and powerful they may be. Also not to mention, Stings reason to fight Natsu in the first place?

Hiros writing ability isn't bad or crappy but simple, too simple for my taste.

why bother to have enemy? simple.. to have a fight and kick their ass in the end

Sting reason? Lector.. but boasting and get cocky not a good thing to do..

simple? really? ok i don't want to comment anything about this.. just thinking about it yourself why you read this manga..

Poneglyph420
August 26, 2012, 12:23 AM
I really suspect that the key difference between the generational abilities of Dragon Slayers is important here. There is a stark difference between 1st and 2nd Generation D.S. So It's not likely the "gap" between the abilities of 1st and 3rd Gen. is any less steep. Even if Sting and Rouge showed their full DS power, perhaps the ease with which they used it somehow makes it weaker than when Natsu (1st Gen.) has used it in the past.. IMO there is a strata of ability in the D.S. and the 1st Gen. is the superior. It's just my own speculation but either the use of the Lachryma has limited the original power given to them by their dragon parents or maybe the "killing" of their parents has taken something from their ability.. I dunno. Not only is Natsu the famed Salamander and the lead protagonist of FT but up to now he has defeated anyone who dared demean FT..

Besides there's no way Natsu (or Mashima) would have let Lucy just get slapped around like a chesty rag doll (which seems to happen often....) and NOT have such a decisive reply.

MechR
August 26, 2012, 12:52 AM
Why are you guys completely ignoring the last pages of the previous chapters? Natsu and Gajeel got back on their feet literally being unharmed aside from scratches (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v26/c295/23.html). There weren't any injuries to them. Dragon Force didn't have much effect aside from destroying the battle ground.They were harmed enough to spend a minute lying on the ground. Whereas the attacks they landed on Sting did even less.


I really suspect that the key difference between the generational abilities of Dragon Slayers is important here. There is a stark difference between 1st and 2nd Generation D.S. So It's not likely the "gap" between the abilities of 1st and 3rd Gen. is any less steep. Even if Sting and Rouge showed their full DS power, perhaps the ease with which they used it somehow makes it weaker than when Natsu (1st Gen.) has used it in the past.. IMO there is a strata of ability in the D.S. and the 1st Gen. is the superior.The 2nd-gen DS's we've seen (Luxus, Cobra) have actually been stronger than the first-gens. It's hard to see a reason for 3rd-gens to be any weaker, when they're basically 1st-gen DS's with 2nd-gen upgrades.

DEATHBOTT
August 26, 2012, 01:21 AM
There's absolutely zero need to throw feces into the forums over your disappointment - especially as Jura isn't the character to "shit" on others.

well i'm sorry if my swearing offended you but that's just how i speak. i didn't mean he would literally shit on them just that he could quite easily best there whole team going by the fact that he is near gildart's level and that the rest of sabertooth are pegged to lose to their rivals in ft. if natsu had an easy match vs 2 of them at once im willing to bet a lot that erza and laxus are going to breeze through their own matches. i would love to see in the royal rumble (if there is one) minerva orga and rufus getting ready to fight their ft rivals but then getting brushed aside by kagura jura and lyon, making them three way battles.

Freid
August 26, 2012, 01:32 AM
:beer Here's to hoping that the rest of the sabretooth members suffer the same fate. I couldn't be happier with the outcome.

Chris38
August 26, 2012, 02:07 AM
The 2nd-gen DS's we've seen (Luxus, Cobra) have actually been stronger than the first-gens. It's hard to see a reason for 3rd-gens to be any weaker, when they're basically 1st-gen DS's with 2nd-gen upgrades.

True, that might have been the case, if we assume that Rouge and Sting where capable of fully utilizing that power. Considering the fact that we never heard anything about them, before the 7 year time skip, during which, no mayor incidents have occurred:

http://i27.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/258/fairy-tail-2784659.jpg

... I doubt that they had, much opportunities to fight against opponents that are stronger / as strong as they are.

In other words, they might have deduced that the level of power that they have achieved during the 7 years, is enough to fight against Natsu and Gajeel, but, in reality, it was nowhere close to their true potential.

After all, if you don't find anyone that is stronger then you, then you're training regime deteriorates, since... what would be the reason for getting stronger, if you are capable of beating anyone that you come across - and that is pretty much, one of the things, that have caused them to be defeated by Natsu.

I mean, there is no way that I will believe that Sting and Rouge have the opportunities of fighting against opponents at a similar level as Jellal, Hades, Master Jose, most of the Grimore Heart members etc... - and all of those fights had an effect on Natsu's and the other main characters strength - not after what has been said in the scene where some high level Magic Council members, where talking about the return of the core FT members and the fact , that those 7 years have been pretty peaceful, and no major incidents have happened at that time.

And technically speaking, I doubt that Natsu can be still considered as a pure 1 generation DS, because of his LFD mode - after all, even if Natsu doesn't have a Lacrima, he managed to obtain Laxus'es Lightning DS powers - in other words, he has, at least part of the abilities that a second generation DS has got - and combined with the fact that Natsu has been thought by a dragon as well - it makes him, into something similar to a third generation DS.

Basically, Natsu is a pretty unique case of a DS, since he is capable of using two different DS elements at the same time, we don't know if it's a permanent change, but I doubt it's something that a lot of Dragon Slayers can achieve.

Roman
August 26, 2012, 03:54 AM
That would be the worst "set stone" in any series whatsoever. Why bother to have enemys then?

The problem that i have is that regardless of what new enemys FT has to face, i won't feel excited about them nor will i expect them to be a treath anymore no matter how strong and powerful they may be. Also not to mention, Stings reason to fight Natsu in the first place?

Hiros writing ability isn't bad or crappy but simple, too simple for my taste.

Well, my statement should have already answered that question. New enemies make a shounen star of the manga strong. That is set in stone. Natsu didn't have to have a reason to fight an individual, he fought the Sabertooth in general because they were mocking his friends and obviously don't have any idea what a friend is.

sarutobi_sensei
August 26, 2012, 06:51 AM
True, that might have been the case, if we assume that Rouge and Sting where capable of fully utilizing that power. Considering the fact that we never heard anything about them, before the 7 year time skip, during which, no mayor incidents have occurred:

http://i27.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/258/fairy-tail-2784659.jpg

... I doubt that they had, much opportunities to fight against opponents that are stronger / as strong as they are.

In other words, they might have deduced that the level of power that they have achieved during the 7 years, is enough to fight against Natsu and Gajeel, but, in reality, it was nowhere close to their true potential.

After all, if you don't find anyone that is stronger then you, then you're training regime deteriorates, since... what would be the reason for getting stronger, if you are capable of beating anyone that you come across - and that is pretty much, one of the things, that have caused them to be defeated by Natsu.

I mean, there is no way that I will believe that Sting and Rouge have the opportunities of fighting against opponents at a similar level as Jellal, Hades, Master Jose, most of the Grimore Heart members etc... - and all of those fights had an effect on Natsu's and the other main characters strength - not after what has been said in the scene where some high level Magic Council members, where talking about the return of the core FT members and the fact , that those 7 years have been pretty peaceful, and no major incidents have happened at that time.

And technically speaking, I doubt that Natsu can be still considered as a pure 1 generation DS, because of his LFD mode - after all, even if Natsu doesn't have a Lacrima, he managed to obtain Laxus'es Lightning DS powers - in other words, he has, at least part of the abilities that a second generation DS has got - and combined with the fact that Natsu has been thought by a dragon as well - it makes him, into something similar to a third generation DS.

Basically, Natsu is a pretty unique case of a DS, since he is capable of using two different DS elements at the same time, we don't know if it's a permanent change, but I doubt it's something that a lot of Dragon Slayers can achieve.

Just to clear things out, Natsu didn't take Laxus Lightning Dragon Slaying magic, he hate it, was able to use its power and then he by himself was able to use that power. Meaning that he learned how to create lightning himself.

We've seen other mages using other spells, like Gerard using fire, Makarov using fire, light, and even other forms of spells.

TobiOrNotTobi
August 26, 2012, 07:06 AM
why bother to have enemy? simple.. to have a fight and kick their ass in the end

Sting reason? Lector.. but boasting and get cocky not a good thing to do.. 

simple? really? ok i don't want to comment anything about this.. just thinking about it yourself why you read this manga..

Why bother to make a rivality if that isn't even happening? 
Rogue vs Gajeel, why did Hiro decide to push Gajeel out of the match? 

People figured it could be because once Natsu fails against Sting & Rogue, Gajeel returns with a strenght boost from the iron mine he was pushed in.

But no, he was there for nothing, no reason whatsoever. It added humor? In a bad way, that i'd agree with.

Sting wanted to prove Lector that he isn't a liar by beating Natsu. Calling that a "purpose/reason" alone is just a brain twister. Smh.

And yes the way Hiro Mashima writes his manga IMO is simple to me as you can predict things miles away not to mention that that enemys mean shit regardless what power they may have they'll get beat by the invisible bonds of friendship and feelings. 

That message Hiro wants to show that friendship can bring you anywhere may appeal to 5-10year olds but this is FT a shounen manga, not Teletubbies. 

moonster x
August 26, 2012, 07:08 AM
Just to clear things out, Natsu didn't take Laxus Lightning Dragon Slaying magic, he ate it, was able to use its power and then he by himself was able to use that power. Meaning that he learned how to create lightning himself.

We've seen other mages using other spells, like Gerard using fire, Makarov using fire, light, and even other forms of spells.

the right word..:) yeah! magic can be learn.. if Natsu want he can learn Fairy Law or Fairy Glitter but his original magic still Fire DS.. he like his magic so much.. he can kick ass with it.


Why bother to make a rivality if that isn't even happening?
Rogue vs Gajeel, why did Hiro decide to push Gajeel out of the match?

People figured it could be because once Natsu fails against Sting & Rogue, Gajeel returns with a strenght boost from the iron mine he was pushed in.

But no, he was there for nothing, no reason whatsoever. It added humor? In a bad way, that i'd agree with.

Sting wanted to prove Lector that he isn't a liar by beating Natsu. Calling that a "purpose/reason" alone is just a brain twister. Smh.

And yes the way Hiro Mashima writes his manga IMO is simple to me as you can predict things miles away not to mention that that enemys mean shit regardless what power they may have they'll get beat by the invisible bonds of friendship and feelings.

That message Hiro wants to show that friendship can bring you anywhere may appeal to 5-10year olds but this is FT a shounen manga, not Teletubbies.

rivality? i don't see any of it on it.. Natsu just want to kick their ass for hurting and laughing at Lucy. Gazeel and Natsu = Overkill.. and to make ST look worst.

not everyone think that way.. Gazeel getting out from mines with boost? why? you don't see how strong he is.. why need boost? i like Gazeel but that doesn't matter because that was ST should feel.. embarrassing.. after that boasting of theirs.

just to make it look like they only playing with them.. not taking their attack seriously.

Sting reason is good but he is doing it on a bad way..

sure.. you can just predict it a mile away.. and do you really know what shounen meaning is? sorry if i ask.. if you don't want simple story like this i prefer you read seinen.. sorry Mod it kinda off topic you can delete it if you want..

Roman
August 26, 2012, 09:18 AM
rivality? i don't see any of it on it.. Natsu just want to kick their ass for hurting and laughing at Lucy.

This. It's not a question of rivalry or power. Sabertooth hit Natsu's soft spot and that's his friends. He attacked their master, that much should be already obvious. Rogue, Sting, Minerva or whoever else, it wouldn't matter to Natsu, he'd just kick their ass for mocking his principles.

Edelheld
August 26, 2012, 10:10 AM
In other words, you can't rely on empty praise, empty boasts, or speculation based on them to have an idea of the outcome. Instead, you have to rely on actual feats, and concrete demonstrations of power.
That's not exactly a bad thing.
Question 1: And when exactly will I see their "feats" if not in the fight? So I will be able to really predict the outcome of the fight only when it's ended already, right? =)
Example: Before the real fight Hades have shown only some stupid chain magic. Shall I judge that he is weakling?
Example 2: Before the real fight Azuma have shown only some stupid seeds magic. Shall I judge that he is weakling like Droy?

Question 2: And what exactly is "concrete demonstrations of power"?
Blasting away the Stadium's floor is a "concrete demonstration of power", or not?
Easily using the ultimate DS magic is a "concrete demonstration of power", or not?
Using Unison Raid is a "concrete demonstration of power", or not?
And if using magic that many priests have wasted their entire lives trying to achieve, but without success, to amplify the attack of the Ultimate form of the one of the strongest magics in the world is not a "concrete demonstration of power", then what is?


... and do you really know what shounen meaning is? sorry if i ask.. if you don't want simple story like this i prefer you read seinen.. ...
So you think that teenagers are too stupid and simple to demand something bigger from shounen?
=)

NAM61
August 26, 2012, 10:53 AM
i dont see why people have been saying rogue and sting got trolled. i think people use the word troll for everything. to me troll would have been if sting and rogue was dominating them since the start. and all of the sudden natsu pulls out a new power out of anywhere. or if they are using DF and wining and and then all of a sudden pass out cause they run out of magic and natsu wins. here i dont see a troll, natsu was just stronger then them. and it was stated in the first chapter of fight by the judge when he said the power difference was a lot between them.

dafuq
August 26, 2012, 11:43 AM
now i re-read chapter again and it was like 1 ulti and baaaam double kill :teehee (if u know dota u will understand what i mean in there lol)

moonster x
August 26, 2012, 12:34 PM
So you think that teenagers are too stupid and simple to demand something bigger from shounen?
=)

this is kinda off topic..(Sorry Mod:sweatdrop) but still i answer your question..

i didn't say anything like that.. sure you can demand whatever you like. an excitement when the main character defeat their enemy without any difficulty like what Natsu done here with Rogue and Sting sometimes make a reader happy especially teenager(target), yeah.. finally after all the struggled in the past fight. look like a fan service but shounen give this kind of vibe.. to be truth i don't think i can predict what will happen in Fairy Tail manga and where the story goes except some of hint that was given by the author although it just a simple writing, the only what i can predict is Natsu and Fairy Tail will win their fight or do something great in the end of story like it always be.:)

amitnaruto
August 26, 2012, 01:41 PM
I don't see why natsu winning so easily is seen as a bad thing by so many people. He is stronger and fought for all the right reasons. Gajeel was only put to the side so his true abilities stay hidden. I feel the next arc will satisfy everyone, natsu and gajeel will both go all out and show their true ultimate dragon magic. this is s just a filler for the author to have fun with his characters, i don't think this power level is to be taken seriously as least not in this contest.

I do have a question though, sarutobi_sensei and monster x both said that natsu learned lightning, then isn't is possible to also say that when he fought zancrow he may also have learn dark god magic, its even more similar to his own magic then anything. What do you guys think?

SerpentTailedAngel
August 26, 2012, 03:05 PM
Someone already raised that possibility. I don't think it's the case. Natsu learned lightning dragon slayer magic. It's still his magic, just with a different element. Even if Zancrow was using a fire element, it was god slayer magic. Since Natsu was copying elements and not types of magic, I don't think we'll see any of Zancrows tricks again. Not unless Zanny pulls a Lisanna and comes back from the dead.

moonster x
August 26, 2012, 04:19 PM
I do have a question though, sarutobi_sensei and monster x both said that natsu learned lightning, then isn't is possible to also say that when he fought zancrow he may also have learn dark god magic, its even more similar to his own magic then anything. What do you guys think?

i don't think Natsu learn Lightning DS. i just assuming he learn how to create lightning and combine it with his flame to boost his attack and speed, that why his magic depleted much faster.. using 2 different power of magic at the same time without enough magic container is a like double edge sword for a mage i guess. about magic that not something like a lost magic i am sure it can be learn depend on the difficulty of the magic.

Edelheld
August 26, 2012, 05:32 PM
... an excitement when the main character defeat their enemy without any difficulty like what Natsu done here with Rogue and Sting sometimes make a reader happy especially teenager(target), yeah.. ...
It's 3,5 times already in 1 arc. I can take it occasionally, but that's too much.

crimsonlink310
August 26, 2012, 06:30 PM
It's 3,5 times already in 1 arc. I can take it occasionally, but that's too much.

Mind saying that those 3/5 times were in this arc? Natsu hasn't fought anyone in this arc except Sting and Rouge. Unless you count that mook from ST he defeated in one hit or the kidnappers.

Krono
August 26, 2012, 10:51 PM
The 2nd-gen DS's we've seen (Luxus, Cobra) have actually been stronger than the first-gens. It's hard to see a reason for 3rd-gens to be any weaker, when they're basically 1st-gen DS's with 2nd-gen upgrades.

The second generation DS we've seen have been stronger because they were stronger mages, not because of their DS lacrima. Now we see the same thing happening where the first generation DS are stronger than the third generation DS simply because they're stronger.

I am assuming of course you don't wish to argue that Laxus would be merely on Natsu's level if he didn't have his DS lacrima.


Question 1: And when exactly will I see their "feats" if not in the fight? So I will be able to really predict the outcome of the fight only when it's ended already, right? =)
Example: Before the real fight Hades have shown only some stupid chain magic. Shall I judge that he is weakling?
Example 2: Before the real fight Azuma have shown only some stupid seeds magic. Shall I judge that he is weakling like Droy?

Ridiculous hyperbole there. Before the real fight Hades had thrown around giant Makarov like a rag doll, used explosions that covered a third of the island, and finished the fight with Makarov by casually blasting through him. Before the real fight Azuma had used powerful explosions that defeated Pantherlily, and gone toe to toe with Mirajane, proving too much for her. Hardly "stupid seed magic" or "stupid chain magic". Heck, we didn't even know that Azuma's main power was control of plants, not creating explosions until part way through the fight with Erza.

As for your actual question, you see feats like them actually doing stuff, or beating other people of note before hand. Such as Azuma beating Pantherlily and Mirajane, or Hades defeating Makarov. Though the flip side is that you need feats for both sides, and just like we hadn't gotten much in the way of feats for Sting and Rogue, we hadn't gotten much in the way of post training feats for Natsu and Gajeel other than that Natsu could once again curb stomp Max, and mow through Sabertooth fodder.


Question 2: And what exactly is "concrete demonstrations of power"?
Blasting away the Stadium's floor is a "concrete demonstration of power", or not?
Easily using the ultimate DS magic is a "concrete demonstration of power", or not?
Using Unison Raid is a "concrete demonstration of power", or not?
And if using magic that many priests have wasted their entire lives trying to achieve, but without success, to amplify the attack of the Ultimate form of the one of the strongest magics in the world is not a "concrete demonstration of power", then what is?

Blasting a hole in the floor of the arena is a decent demonstration of power. Using the ultimate DS magic, and using Unison Raid is not. Lucy uses unison raid easily, when she was nowhere near Natsu's level. The ability to use it isn't a demonstration of power. Similarly, the "ultimate DS magic" still had trouble with Zero, who while a better fighter than Brain, still has the same magic supply as Brain, who was curb stomped by Jura. Using it is impressive, but not something that guarantees they're at a certain level of power.

Edelheld
August 27, 2012, 01:37 AM
Mind saying that those 3/5 times were in this arc? Natsu hasn't fought anyone in this arc except Sting and Rouge. Unless you count that mook from ST he defeated in one hit or the kidnappers.
Elsa killing 100 monsters +1. I disliked that but all in all it was OK.
Cana using Fairy Glitter +0.5. Not that crucial so whatever.
Laxus tramples Raven Tail +1. WTF? One of the most anticipated (by silly me) father-son fights and nicely (oh, Kurohebi) build up characters are flushed down the toilet.
Natsu owns Twin Dragons with no sweat +1. Two very plot important characters are owned beyond any reason like some rookies. And in a terrible way that warped all logical reasoning: why Natsu got such a HUGE burst to powers while Gray, Lucy and Jubia got so little after the same treatment?
...
Hmm, maybe for you the main character is Natsu only and that brings misunderstanding? For me the main character of this manga is it's namesake - Fairy Tail guild. Some on front like Natsu or Lucy, some on backside like Mira or Laxus, some as furniture like Nab or that weird dancing dude =)



1) Ridiculous hyperbole there. ...
2) Blasting a hole in the floor of the arena is a decent demonstration of power. Using the ultimate DS magic, and using Unison Raid is not. Lucy uses unison raid easily, when she was nowhere near Natsu's level. The ability to use it isn't a demonstration of power. Similarly, the "ultimate DS magic" still had trouble with Zero, who while a better fighter than Brain, still has the same magic supply as Brain, who was curb stomped by Jura. Using it is impressive, but not something that guarantees they're at a certain level of power.
1) With Azuma could you assumed that he will become one of the strongest enemies so far in this manga based solely on that he defeated Pantherlily? Could you assumed that he will defeat Mira in no sweat?
With Makarov vs. Hades you actually understand how strong he is only during the very fight. Because some characters(main baddies) are saved for the latter.
That's the problem. No fighter(and author) shows all his tricks right in the beginning. They are saved for the latter. To rely solely on actual feats has this incurable flaw.
So do you really not judge the strength of a character before the action or just naturally assumes his power level based on his title? To assume that the Big Boss is at least somewhat strong just seems natural, isn't it?
2) Really? Using magic that may have problem only with the Guild Master of the top 3 strongest dark guilds around does not guarantees they're at a certain level of power? Seems to me that's exactly what it does - it guarantees they're at a certain level of power which is a wee less that the Guild Master of the top 3 strongest dark guilds around which took the union of 4 guilds to defeat it. That's a nice level, I think.
And that level is doubled 'cos there is 2 of them. And it's amplified by a very rare and hardly achieved magic which is available only to those with decades of training or to those with some huge hidden potential of whom Lucy (and, hopefully, Jubia too) definitely is.
...
It seems to me those are legitimate feats that I observed during the fight and somehow they are not fitting in the outcome of that fight. What am I doing wrong?
Shall I deny the legitimacy of those feats to line them with the sorry outcome as you do? Or shall I denounce your idea of judging only real feats as one that do not give a true picture to the premonition of the fight's outcome?

hoeru
August 27, 2012, 02:36 AM
i dont see why people have been saying rogue and sting got trolled. i think people use the word troll for everything. to me troll would have been if sting and rogue was dominating them since the start. and all of the sudden natsu pulls out a new power out of anywhere. or if they are using DF and wining and and then all of a sudden pass out cause they run out of magic and natsu wins. here i dont see a troll, natsu was just stronger then them. and it was stated in the first chapter of fight by the judge when he said the power difference was a lot between them.

Actually, that outcome was already hinted by Mashima when Natsu curb stomped the ST guild members: Just look at Sting's face and compare it to - let's say - Cobra and Luxus. He doesn't look like someone who's sure to win over Natsu. Why didn't he react at all when Natsu knocked out that "Top 10 member"?

And when he was about to move in after Natsu KOed most of the ST mages, Sting was held back by Gemma - who then said that there wasn't someone like Natsu in his guild.

The hype on Sting and Rogue ended there.

moonster x
August 27, 2012, 03:12 AM
Hmm, maybe for you the main character is Natsu only and that brings misunderstanding? For me the main character of this manga is it's namesake - Fairy Tail guild. Some on front like Natsu or Lucy, some on backside like Mira or Laxus, some as furniture like Nab or that weird dancing dude =)


then all the Fairy Tail members are the main character in your point of view. i just go with your flow then..:^_^

Erza - she rank S mage but i don't see she had an easy fight against the monster. it a bit ridiculous still i don't see an easy fight here.
Kana - Mavis just lent her the strongest magic of Fairy Tail. for win sake but still that not a fight.
Laxus - he rank S mage, you don't know what training he done and have some information about Raven Tail, he easily defeat all of them. RT just overestimate their own power and ability.
Natsu - after getting a little beat up when he not really using any magic power, he owned Rogue and Sting after that. like RT, ST overestimate their own power and ability as well.

only 2 of them look like an easy fight. an excitement yeah but easy fight no

isn't this just a simple writing.. how this simple writing become complicated and headache.:gwah

kidopitz27
August 27, 2012, 05:46 AM
i think the title on the next chapter is maybe about Lucy :)

what i think will happen is Lucy will get out of her bed to congratulate Natsu and upon walking or running in the hallway she will see the girl who is crying on the start of the chapter and then vanished and Jellal or someone will ask where did (crying girl) gone off too. and Lucy will remember the face of the girl it's either look like her or her mother :)

laughing@you
August 27, 2012, 08:09 AM
Elsa killing 100 monsters +1. I disliked that but all in all it was OK.
Cana using Fairy Glitter +0.5. Not that crucial so whatever.
Laxus tramples Raven Tail +1. WTF? One of the most anticipated (by silly me) father-son fights and nicely (oh, Kurohebi) build up characters are flushed down the toilet.
Natsu owns Twin Dragons with no sweat +1. Two very plot important characters are owned beyond any reason like some rookies. And in a terrible way that warped all logical reasoning: why Natsu got such a HUGE burst to powers while Gray, Lucy and Jubia got so little after the same treatment?
...
Hmm, maybe for you the main character is Natsu only and that brings misunderstanding? For me the main character of this manga is it's namesake - Fairy Tail guild. Some on front like Natsu or Lucy, some on backside like Mira or Laxus, some as furniture like Nab or that weird dancing dude =)


1) With Azuma could you assumed that he will become one of the strongest enemies so far in this manga based solely on that he defeated Pantherlily? Could you assumed that he will defeat Mira in no sweat?
With Makarov vs. Hades you actually understand how strong he is only during the very fight. Because some characters(main baddies) are saved for the latter.
That's the problem. No fighter(and author) shows all his tricks right in the beginning. They are saved for the latter. To rely solely on actual feats has this incurable flaw.
So do you really not judge the strength of a character before the action or just naturally assumes his power level based on his title? To assume that the Big Boss is at least somewhat strong just seems natural, isn't it?
2) Really? Using magic that may have problem only with the Guild Master of the top 3 strongest dark guilds around does not guarantees they're at a certain level of power? Seems to me that's exactly what it does - it guarantees they're at a certain level of power which is a wee less that the Guild Master of the top 3 strongest dark guilds around which took the union of 4 guilds to defeat it. That's a nice level, I think.
And that level is doubled 'cos there is 2 of them. And it's amplified by a very rare and hardly achieved magic which is available only to those with decades of training or to those with some huge hidden potential of whom Lucy (and, hopefully, Jubia too) definitely is.
...
It seems to me those are legitimate feats that I observed during the fight and somehow they are not fitting in the outcome of that fight. What am I doing wrong?
Shall I deny the legitimacy of those feats to line them with the sorry outcome as you do? Or shall I denounce your idea of judging only real feats as one that do not give a true picture to the premonition of the fight's outcome?

The main plot is yet to be revealed. The facts is that these fights have been very short for a reason. These fights were to redeem Fairy Tail as one of the top guilds in the world's eyes now that it has its true members back. We caught a glimpse of the worlds point of view in their entrance, everybody thought they were losers.

The real question is when are the dragons gonna take action in the event? I'm guessing the dragon's involvement is one of the reason's that faceless girl was shown in tears at the beginning, cuz the real plot will start soon. Up until now this is just eye candy to show Fairy tail is still number 1.

sarutobi_sensei
August 27, 2012, 12:17 PM
The main plot is yet to be revealed. The facts is that these fights have been very short for a reason. These fights were to redeem Fairy Tail as one of the top guilds in the world's eyes now that it has its true members back. We caught a glimpse of the worlds point of view in their entrance, everybody thought they were losers.

The real question is when are the dragons gonna take action in the event? I'm guessing the dragon's involvement is one of the reason's that faceless girl was shown in tears at the beginning, cuz the real plot will start soon. Up until now this is just eye candy to show Fairy tail is still number 1.

Thank you for that!

The sub plot is to make Fairy Tail the number one guild by showing just how powerful they are.

It started with Erza, then Cana, Laxus and now Natsu and Gajeel completely overpowering Sting and Rogue.

The main plot is being slowly revealed. The mystery person, the mystery magical force, Eclipse, the disappearance of the Celestial Mages, Dragons appearing, Dragon King Festival, Lumen Etoile.

The main point on this arc is to make them realize how powerful FT truly is.

laughing@you
August 27, 2012, 01:50 PM
Exactly Erza, Cana, Laxus and now Natsu and Gajeel completely overpowering Sting and Rogue, pure and utterly guilty pleasures!!!

Besides i never liked sting or rogue. B-)

I wanna see if this will trigger a fight against dragons? I wonder if it the dragons conversation didn't mean a fight between their experiments? Meaning 1st gen vs 2nd gen vs 3gen? I hope not, that would be very disappointing!!!

Zehahaha
August 27, 2012, 02:15 PM
This chapter can be summarized in one sentence : " So... I heard that Sabertooth was the number one guild in Fiore... Oh wait a sec "

Sabertooth = Sabernoobs

Well...Although it was a shame we didn't get to see why Rogue is so obsessed with Gajeel tho, but meh. Hope these two won't join FT (knowing Mashima, it may happen)

Marche
August 27, 2012, 02:16 PM
I don’t think that the girl (even we don’t clearly and in the translation there is “He”, I believe that the mysterious figure is a woman, even counting the title for the next chapter) showed in the first page is Yukino.
Perhaps she is a new character but if you compare this page http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/296/2 to this http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/256/20 you can clearly see that they are almost identical.
For this reason I believe that she is Lucy by a different word (as Edolas) or time, or even Lucy’s mother, Layla.
The strange thing is that the girl seem young, I believe it’s too young for being Lucy’s mother.
But perhaps if as I believe she belongs to Tartaros she could be resurrected, I believe this because I don’t think that she just like Lucy and the other was in a frozen state for over 14 years.

Then Gerard tries to catch her, but I must say that I don’t think that he will be able to catch her, it’s too early, if he will catch her I believe that this will happened in the last day of the tournament (in the truth I am not so sure that he will be able to catch her).
For that reason I believe that he will be stopped, most likely by Kagura (if I will have some time I will write about it in the next days).

Regarding the match between Natsu vs the two dragonslayer I must say that this match sucks.
I understand Sting and Rogue in the other years won even because the strongest mages of Fairy Tail, Lamia Scale (Leon and Juura), Quatro Cerberus (Bacchus, even if in the truth I don’t think that he would be a big deal for them) were not present, and that for Mermaid Hell Milliana was not present and Kagura did not used her real strength, since Gerard was not there.
Beside what really piss me off is the fact that Natsu did not even used his lighting form (but I have an idea about it, that I will explain it my next post when I will write of what I believe will happened in the next chapters), infact if he would defeat them using that would a little bit better (even if at least for me the judgment about this chapter would have not changed).

Other things that piss me off even more than the fact Natsu can’t use did not used his lighting form are:
1) The fact with this defeat most likely Sting would be expelled by the guild, and most likely even Rogue would follow him, but for his own will (infact I believe that the master would give him another change).
2) The fact that even Rogue has been humiliated.
For this even if he will remain to the guild and participate to the tournament (only for fighting Gazille) his credibility has been crashed.
Infact it’s impossible that he will defeat him, but if at the opposite he will be able to defeat him (or even draw with him) will be Gazille that would lose all his credibility (even if I don’t think this will happened, as I will tell in my next post).
3) It’s really funny that Natsu said that he will fight for his friend that Sabertooth laughed at and at the same time he knock out on of his friend.

I would prefer if the match would end in a draw, perhaps at the beginning Natsu will seem to be able to defeat Sting, but then Rogue would have entered in the completion and then the two would be able to counter Natsu attack.
Then in the fifth day Natsu would have easily outclassed Sting, in the same way how he did in this chapter, but only Sting alone.
But at least if Natsu would defeat both of them alone, Mashima could make in a way that for every time that he hitted them he would have remembered Lucy, in a similar way to how immediately after receiving Luxus lighting he attacked Hades.
Beside I believe the fact that Natsu conter attack to Sting and Rogue unison raid only with hisy his flame without adding the lighting it’s too much, at least if he put even the lighting the clash would be “two element vs two element”.
Anyways I really like Minerva expression, in this pics http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/296/11 she seem really worries, perhaps she has undertood that she made a really big mistake.
Anyways I don’t think that she will be defeated by Erza, infact I believe that the one who will defeat her will be Kagura (Kagura will do it because she wants to revenge Yukino or because she wants to fights Erza without any obstacles).

laughing@you
August 27, 2012, 03:20 PM
Well...Although it was a shame we didn't get to see why Rogue is so obsessed with Gajeel tho, but meh. Hope these two won't join FT (knowing Mashima, it may happen)

I wondered about that also. What did gajeel do to rogue?

joining fairy tail? don't know, there's already to many characters in fairy tail to keep track of. On the other hand, It would be cool if all the dragon slayers would end up in fairy tail. I mean an all out conflict against dragons is tough task, fairy tail may need all dragon slayers (and highly powered up) in their ranks.

Ifrit
August 27, 2012, 03:40 PM
I don't mind Natsu beating them without getting serious, I actually rather Natsu wins his fight without getting any help from outside. He should be on a different level than any other mage in this series. If Mashima planning on Natsu Vs Real Dragon fight in the future, Natsu need to be stronger than any1.

I only voted bad, because I hate seeing a good character being trashed like Gajeel, What kind of spotlight every1 is talking about?

Rouge already got beat and trashed..what rival other than him for Gajeel?

anime-addict
August 27, 2012, 04:28 PM
I don't know if you'd discussed this issue or not?!

But, did you notice that the name of the dragon that sting has claimed defeating it was mentioned in this chapter by sting himself " vicelogia "

http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/23937849/11

Vicelogia's name came across when igneel was talking to him.

http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/19349560/22

what do you think??

sarutobi_sensei
August 27, 2012, 04:39 PM
Exactly Erza, Cana, Laxus and now Natsu and Gajeel completely overpowering Sting and Rogue, pure and utterly guilty pleasures!!!

Besides i never liked sting or rogue. B-)

I wanna see if this will trigger a fight against dragons? I wonder if it the dragons conversation didn't mean a fight between their experiments? Meaning 1st gen vs 2nd gen vs 3gen? I hope not, that would be very disappointing!!!
Hmm, a fight between the dragons and their DS? Doubt it. I'd bet that Acnologia is the only one that truly wants to kill all humans while the others seem to try and make Dragon Slayers to defend man-kind.

2nd Generation isn't actually a Dragon experience, it's more of human experience.


This chapter can be summarized in one sentence : " So... I heard that Sabertooth was the number one guild in Fiore... Oh wait a sec "

Sabertooth = Sabernoobs

Well...Although it was a shame we didn't get to see why Rogue is so obsessed with Gajeel tho, but meh. Hope these two won't join FT (knowing Mashima, it may happen)

Sting did say that Rogue was Gajeels apprentice. Though I doubt it. Gajeel said nothing about this.


I wondered about that also. What did gajeel do to rogue?

joining fairy tail? don't know, there's already to many characters in fairy tail to keep track of. On the other hand, It would be cool if all the dragon slayers would end up in fairy tail. I mean an all out conflict against dragons is tough task, fairy tail may need all dragon slayers (and highly powered up) in their ranks.

It would indeed be cool if all of them turn out joining FT. I can see Sting and Rogue becoming members of the guild.


I don't know if you'd discussed this issue or not?!

But, did you notice that the name of the dragon that sting has claimed defeating it was mentioned in this chapter by sting himself " vicelogia "

http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/23937849/11

Vicelogia's name came across when igneel was talking to him.

http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/19349560/22

what do you think??
Not sure what you're trying to get at actually.

anime-addict
August 27, 2012, 04:44 PM
I'm trying to plot that sting is a big liar ,,, and he is just a talk !!!!

---------- Post added at 12:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

http://mangastream.com/read/fairy_tail/23937849/10


I think vicelogia has disappeared just like the other dragons

moonster x
August 27, 2012, 06:50 PM
Sting did say that Rogue was Gajeels apprentice. Though I doubt it. Gajeel said nothing about this.


look like Gazeel don't recognize Rogue. maybe he an apprentice when Gazeel still a Phantom Lord mage. the past Gazeel look scarier and doesn't even care about other (Rogue has been forgotten :gwah)

SerpentTailedAngel
August 27, 2012, 10:12 PM
I think the apprentice thing was just a bad translation.

ace17
August 28, 2012, 02:38 AM
i actually want sting and rogue to join fairy tail that way ft would have all the ds generations

laughing@you
August 28, 2012, 08:43 AM
3) It’s really funny that Natsu said that he will fight for his friend that Sabertooth laughed at and at the same time he knock out on of his friend.

There's a difference. Sabertooth were looking down on everybody else, as if they were nothing. Hence, why every guild even fairy tail was shown with a little smiling when natsu was beaten the crap out sting and rogue at their full strenght/power. Gajeel was taken out of comission not knocked out.

Edelheld
August 28, 2012, 09:51 AM
...
isn't this just a simple writing.. how this simple writing become complicated and headache.:gwah
It is not a simple writing!
If someone in shounen is portrayed as strong he should be strong - that's simple. If anyone can be weakling no matter what - that's not.


The main plot is yet to be revealed. The facts is that these fights have been very short for a reason. These fights were to redeem Fairy Tail as one of the top guilds in the world's eyes now that it has its true members back. We caught a glimpse of the worlds point of view in their entrance, everybody thought they were losers.
...
You are wrong, it's just author's laziness. Once is chance, twice is coincidence, third time is a pattern.
One of monsters Elsa fought was said to be on 10 saint mages level and we even haven't seen him. It made me not believing that Elsa's victory is big but rather that it's fake 'cos monsters were not as strong as it was claimed.
No one sought Laxus vs. RT fight 'cos of illusion so why it had to be that simple and lame? The easiness of his victory contributes nothing to the better point of view on FT. And only one single "just as planned" smirk on Ivan's face could've fix it all for me. But no =(
Would've the Dragon Slayers' real fight made it somehow worse on feelings about FT than that fake one? Would've it made them less respected?
The easiness of their achievements cheapens them.
And I feel cheated to be fed the info of enemy's strength and then seeing it all was just a lie.
And I feel robbed of whole bunch of nice characters and fights.

laughing@you
August 28, 2012, 10:31 AM
It is not a simple writing!
If someone in shounen is portrayed as strong he should be strong - that's simple. If anyone can be weakling no matter what - that's not.


O_o?? Really? How many times in shounen people show up saying they are strong ubber strong just to get curb-stomped easily?? I don't know about you but i kind of lost count :p



You are wrong, it's just author's laziness. Once is chance, twice is coincidence, third time is a pattern.
One of monsters Elsa fought was said to be on 10 saint mages level and we even haven't seen him. It made me not believing that Elsa's victory is big but rather that it's fake 'cos monsters were not as strong as it was claimed.
No one sought Laxus vs. RT fight 'cos of illusion so why it had to be that simple and lame? The easiness of his victory contributes nothing to the better point of view on FT. And only one single "just as planned" smirk on Ivan's face could've fix it all for me. But no =(
Would've the Dragon Slayers' real fight made it somehow worse on feelings about FT than that fake one? Would've it made them less respected?
The easiness of their achievements cheapens them.
And I feel cheated to be fed the info of enemy's strength and then seeing it all was just a lie.
And I feel robbed of whole bunch of nice characters and fights.

You see it as you wanna see it!!! This tournament could have been epic and very boring. Could you imagine how long this would be? We probably be still reading about the 1st fight lucy vs hair girl. The author maybe didn't want to make this into another Dragon Ball Z Freeza or Cell saga, that each individual fight were like 10 episodes god know how many manga chapters it took. Which would be ridiculous BTW. If the intention was to re-establish fairy tail as a true #1 guild.

This just show's how strong fairy tail really is. You think it was easy? Lucy was hospitalized twice, Erza looked horrible after her fight. Laxus....well his fairy tail master level, what else did you expect from him?

No man this just show how greatly the world underestimated fairy tail. But don't worry there's still zeref, dragons, Lumens toilet i mean etoile lol theres still plenty of fighting to do.

sarutobi_sensei
August 28, 2012, 11:03 AM
It is not a simple writing!
If someone in shounen is portrayed as strong he should be strong - that's simple. If anyone can be weakling no matter what - that's not.

Not quite getting what you're getting at.

Are you saying that we're saying that Sting and Rogue are weak? It's nothing like that. They are strong. Heck, if Lamia Scale that has Jura and Lyon couldn't surpass them during those 7 years, it means that Sting and Rogue and the other 3 are not weak. But this doesn't invalidate the fact that Natsu and Gajeel are stronger than the 2 Dragon Slayers in Sabertooth. Even if they are stronger than many characters, they don't stand a chance against those 2.


You are wrong, it's just author's laziness. Once is chance, twice is coincidence, third time is a pattern.
One of monsters Elsa fought was said to be on 10 saint mages level and we even haven't seen him. It made me not believing that Elsa's victory is big but rather that it's fake 'cos monsters were not as strong as it was claimed.

Lol? Did you really want to see her defeating the 100 monsters? That will be seen in the anime. The author has a deadline. And the manga can only contain certain content. Do you know that the current anime arc was devised to be part of the manga? Yet it isn't. Why? Both to give time to the manga to get further ahead, and because it would slow down the manga way too much.

Erza fought the 100 monsters, and I'm pretty sure I know which was the S Rank Monster on par with the 10 Saints Wizards. And don't forget that Erza was considered to be part of one of them as well. How can you underestimate Erza this much honestly?

No one sought Laxus vs. RT fight 'cos of illusion so why it had to be that simple and lame? The easiness of his victory contributes nothing to the better point of view on FT. And only one single "just as planned" smirk on Ivan's face could've fix it all for me. But no =(

Again, did you want it to take many chapters? I liked it a lot more like this. Laxus totally overwhelmed those guys. He would've been on a pinch if Obra had activated his magic, but he was faster to defeat him. Flair is weak, Lucy would've defeated her in 1 chapter if it wasn't for Obras meddling. The sand magic user guy is a copy of Max basically... Ivan uses some kind of wierd magic, but we haven't seen the end of him. The other guy that Gray lost to during the 1st day, that was yet another weak guy. How did you expect for Laxus to have any problem with these guys if he was fighting, seemingly, on par with Hades on the previous arc?

Would've the Dragon Slayers' real fight made it somehow worse on feelings about FT than that fake one? Would've it made them less respected?
The easiness of their achievements cheapens them.
And I feel cheated to be fed the info of enemy's strength and then seeing it all was just a lie.
And I feel robbed of whole bunch of nice characters and fights.
Again, it's not a lie. They are strong. Stronger than average. Not stronger than Natsu and Gajeel. And place Laxus, Erza, Mirajane, Gérard, Ultear, Jura, Guildartz on that battlefield and the result would've been the same.

I'm excited about the next chapter, it won't be showing the details of battle on the last day, but still, it will be an interesting chapter.

I've been reading the arc from the beginning and from what I remember we're not getting a hidden competition on the last day, skipping directly to the battle portion of the event.

I want it to be a 5 vs 5 battle royal style. It would be so epic!

Chris38
August 28, 2012, 11:31 AM
I think that, before we will proceed to the 5 vs 5 event, we will have a short 1 or 2 chapter event, which will resolve the Jellal - Kagura subplot of the current arc.

After all, I believe that something is going to prevent Jellal from catching this "mysterious person", again and this time it's going to be Kagura, the "girl" mentioned in the title of the next chapter.

sarutobi_sensei
August 28, 2012, 12:59 PM
Well that's going to happen on the next chapter then, Kagura and Jellal sub-plot.

We also have Miliana and Jellal/Erza sub-plot to solve.

Edelheld
August 28, 2012, 04:57 PM
1) O_o?? Really? How many times in shounen people show up saying they are strong ubber strong just to get curb-stomped easily?? I don't know about you but i kind of lost count :p
2) You see it as you wanna see it!!! This tournament could have been epic and very boring. Could you imagine how long this would be? ...
3) If the intention was to re-establish fairy tail as a true #1 guild.
4) This just show's how strong fairy tail really is. You think it was easy? Lucy was hospitalized twice, Erza looked horrible after her fight. Laxus....well his fairy tail master level, what else did you expect from him?
5) No man this just show how greatly the world underestimated fairy tail. But don't worry there's still zeref, dragons, Lumens toilet i mean etoile lol theres still plenty of fighting to do.
1) Name few from top 3 shounen mangas. Aside from comic effect.
2) Plus one or two more chapters won't make it too long. And the amount of chapters is not the point, the fight's progress is.
3) That might be legitimate for Elsa and Cana, but not for Laxus and Natsu.
4) That Elsa and Lucy being hurt is just new "OMG, they killed Makarov!" crap. Show it few times and I just don't care anymore.
And it's not about Laxus, it's about Raven Tail being lame and weak beyond any reason.
5) That's the point: what kind of monstrosities all next enemies have to be? What kind of monstrosity Tartaros has to be?


1) Not quite getting what you're getting at...
2) Lol? Did you really want to see her defeating the 100 monsters? ...
3) Laxus totally overwhelmed those guys....
4) Again, it's not a lie. They are strong. Stronger than average. Not stronger than Natsu and Gajeel. And place Laxus, Erza, Mirajane, Gérard, Ultear, Jura, Guildartz on that battlefield and the result would've been the same.

1) If Twin Dragons are not weak then it raises some questions like:
Just how strong Natsu is? Where does Natsu's asspull power up comes from if Gray, Lucy and Jubia haven't got that ridiculous amount of power from the Second Origin? What monstrosity his next opponent has to be? What kind of character's hype is true and can we even trust it?
2) Does author intentionally leaves some important empty space to give it to FT anime? Does FT anime is superior to manga now and will become richer than manga?
I don't remember that Elsa was with 10 saints. Can you remember where it has been stated? It only might have been some compliment to her strength not actual claim.
3) And they had no trick up their sleeve, no smart plan to take him out and all? They were just that retard? What in the world Flare or Nullpuding could do to Laxus that they have been handpicked to defeat him? And where did that dude from their intro page vanished? All that guild just makes no sense. They are just some trash characters. All those sinister hints on Ivan's presence during manga and it's all just some trash?
4) They did zero damage. ZERO. If they are really strong then where that strength is? From now on other ST mages just have to be 2-3 times stronger than 2 Dragon Slayers combined and boosted with rare magic... If that's the case then that's just fake. If that's not - then all next fights with ST are just lame already even before they are started.

meepers4982
August 28, 2012, 06:50 PM
haters gonna hate. personally i had no problem with the chapter or this arc. I like how natsu didnt use his special moves for them it really shows just how strong he is. I also think people are forgetting that he is a dragonslayer (the only kind of magic that can slay a dragon) it is definitely going to have more potential than other magics just because of it purpose. As for gajeel being carted away im pretty sure he will have his time to shine soon, he usually does.

(off topic)
the laxus vs. raventail thing? I think the kinda lost on purpose, makarov wouldn't have kept such close intel on them if they weren't a huge threat. As hinted several times they have huge plans for the tournament, and they need lucy for those plans.

crimsonlink310
August 28, 2012, 07:43 PM
Man the amount of fanboys Sting and Rouge have gotten on this thread is ridiculous.

Also Edelheld you are being rather unreasonable.

You continue to ignore what facts others have brought up and keep sprouting that Natsu and co seem to have gotten an asspull power-up.

Which in the case of 2nd origin seems like it but Ultear explained that it was just as good if not more so than 3 months of training. But until the last few chapters we have not seen Natsu fight at full power after getting his 2nd origin unlocked.

Lucy Heartfilia, the one who nearly everyone on this forum thought was the weakest of team Natsu was able to use Urano Metria and summon multiple spirits with little trouble.

Gray increased the amount of magic he could put into his Ice Make magic and create more powerful objects out of ice as seen with the Ice Hammer he made.

Natsu's raw power blew a hole in Sabertooth's base and Minerva had to deflect the attack. We saw recently that Natsu's Crimson Lotus: Exploding Flame Blade can even overpower a Unison raid of 2 dragon roars. You know the same Exploding Flame Blade that caused Gildarts to take 2 steps back and defeat a weakened Laxus?

Erza most likely got a higher magic pool to draw from allowing her to have enough power to defeat 100 monster during her event.

Even Wendy could use a stronger Sky Dragon Roar and her secret Sky dragon slayer technique Shattering Light: Sky Drill thanks to 2nd origin.

SerpentTailedAngel
August 29, 2012, 12:38 AM
Man the amount of fanboys Sting and Rouge have gotten on this thread is ridiculous.

That's probably a sign that they're more likable than you're giving them credit before.

hoeru
August 29, 2012, 03:34 AM
the laxus vs. raventail thing? I think the kinda lost on purpose, makarov wouldn't have kept such close intel on them if they weren't a huge threat. As hinted several times they have huge plans for the tournament, and they need lucy for those plans.
Well, the threat was that Makarov didn't know what Ivan knew about Lumen Histoire or not. It wasn't his strength but his intel on Fairy Tail that Makarov was concerned about.


1) Name few from top 3 shounen mangas. Aside from comic effect.
This isn't allowed here. Can you remember yourself or would you like ghostexiled to remind you? :P


2) Plus one or two more chapters won't make it too long. And the amount of chapters is not the point, the fight's progress is.
The fight already was going on for three chapters.


3) That might be legitimate for Elsa and Cana, but not for Laxus and Natsu.
Why?


5) That's the point: what kind of monstrosities all next enemies have to be? What kind of monstrosity Tartaros has to be?
A beatable one, either short-, mid- or long-term one. But in the end - as antagonists - they have to be beatable for the protagonists.


What kind of character's hype is true and can we even trust it?
In Fairy Tail? None.


2) Does author intentionally leaves some important empty space to give it to FT anime? Does FT anime is superior to manga now and will become richer than manga?
Fillers aren't "enriching" manga. This is serious rubbish.


I don't remember that Elsa was with 10 saints. Can you remember where it has been stated? It only might have been some compliment to her strength not actual claim.
Chapter 100. If she had died in the ToP arc, she would have been granted with the title on her funeral by the council members.


That's probably a sign that they're more likable than you're giving them credit before.

Uhm... No? Nothing against Fans, Shippers, Fanarts and other Creative People and Fanworks... but many readers seem not look behind the lookings and initial statements and then get themselves into a hype while overrating them. There have been enough hints to at least have some kind of doubt.

And how are arrogant idiots "likable" anyways? Because they've been seen being adored in manga? :teehee Now that is one sure hint that those guys are either losing to protagonists or end up being converted or both...

Edelheld
August 29, 2012, 10:57 AM
... I also think people are forgetting that he is a dragonslayer ...
And Twin Dragons are not Dragon Slayers? =)


1) Man the amount of fanboys Sting and Rouge have gotten on this thread is ridiculous.
2) Also Edelheld you are being rather unreasonable.
You continue to ignore what facts others have brought up
3) and keep sprouting that Natsu and co seem to have gotten an asspull power-up.
...
1) I'm not Sting+Rogue fanboy. I'm still Kurohebi's bitch, no Rogue can change that :derp
You seem to miss the point =( The easiness of victory over them have shown that to Natsu they are just some goons. Like, "the Super Goons, now with the power of 50 goons each!". But(in terms of power) they are still some irrelevant goons. That's the feeling I get from the fight, anyway =)
2) I just asked few questions in return to that reasoning. Can anyone answer me?
3) No, you missed the point. The problem is that their power up is not the same. We see that Natsu became a monstrosity. And yet other people with 2nd origin are not that strong. OK, Lucy is not that strong in fight to begin with. Wendy had almost zero attacking ability in the beginning so that's hard to compare. And Elsa got not much from power up. But what about the others?
Gray was somewhat on par with Natsu in his normal mode. In that normal mode Natsu owned 2 DS. So Gray also should now just go yaoi and rape Rufus in real fight. Do you believe that will be the case?
Jubia was one of Four Elements with power level somewhere around Gajeel. She should be "just as good if not more so than" Gajeel now. Have you seen it in her? Even in Naval Battle she did nothing extraordinary that she couldn't do in those circumstances even without 2nd Origin. Or her and Gajeel's "being a comic relief" power also has doubled? =)
You see, logical reasoning just gone now. And character's strength build up has no value. Anyone can be weakling to our heroes.
The question "What's the chance Tartaros will be the same losers as Raven Tail?" - it's real now =(


1) This isn't allowed here. Can you remember yourself or would you like ghostexiled to remind you? :P
2) The fight already was going on for three chapters.
3) Why?
4) A beatable one, either short-, mid- or long-term one. But in the end - as antagonists - they have to be beatable for the protagonists.
5) In Fairy Tail? None.
6) Fillers aren't "enriching" manga. This is serious rubbish.
7) Chapter 100. If she had died in the ToP arc, she would have been granted with the title on her funeral by the council members.
...
1) I doubt 5 or so names will damage the World's karma that bad =) But if so, there is still personal message available.
2) Have you read Bleach or Naruto? 3 chapters is not a challenge anymore =) And, once again, the outcome of the fight is the problem, not the length of it.
3) Elsa - it was the first time and it was when people considered FT to be weak. She also was hurt - that indicates the hardship of her deed.
Cana was right after Elsa and can be considered as the part of that "FT rocks" event. And her victory is well explained - she "cheated" with Fairy Glitter =)
Laxus vs. RT fight was concealed by illusion, so no one sought it. To the praising FT the easiness of his victory contributes nothing. He could have at least some trouble with them to show us that they are not losers and win then, and the audience would've seen the same picture of standing Laxus and defeated RT.
An author can make audience feel anything about Natsu's easy win over Twin Dragons.
But think about that: The ST owned everyone during few years. And their 2 of top 5 members were easily owned. So FT will be considered even stronger than that. That will create not love, but jealousy. More praise for FT = more jobs for FT = less jobs for other mages. Everyone will be like Jose from Phantom Lord. Jealousy, hatred, thoughts of "they are too strong and must be weakened for their own good" from the mages and the Council - that's what might follow. Do you remember what Council thought of FT? Now that will be multiplied. And so on.
That's some fanboyish idea, anyway =)
4) Right. So every enemy must be monstrosity or being dispersed "to each from his abilities" losers with losers and tops with tops. I dislike that Gray, Jubia and Lucy will fall to the level of Elfman and always will be victimized by stronger opponent as Lucy already is.
5) And that doesn't bothers you? In a really good story you forgetting that there is the Author. The imaginary world live on its own by its own laws. I want to live in this illusion and not being poked constantly by the Author.
I spent time in "Mira or Gray" discussion fighting people who said the only power of Gray is that he is plot relevant, and all that just to get "in your face!"? ='(
6) Exactly. So anything in anime like showing Elsa actually fighting 100 monsters or LS vs. MH tag fight is just some nice(or bad) add. But it's not part of "the real story".
7) Right. As the token of respect for her deed and her sacrifice. It's like if soldiers or cops die and get praised by a medal or something - that doesn't mean they would've got it if they had survived. There is even some praise for being wounded in action. And there is no praise for not being wounded =)

hoeru
August 29, 2012, 12:21 PM
3) No, you missed the point. The problem is that their power up is not the same. We see that Natsu became a monstrosity. And yet other people with 2nd origin are not that strong. OK, Lucy is not that strong in fight to begin with. Wendy had almost zero attacking ability in the beginning so that's hard to compare. And Elsa got not much from power up. But what about the others?

Characters grow differently. Every leading character - Natsu is that one - grows exceptionally. Elsa actually said it right away, that Natsu eventually will surpass her.


1) I doubt 5 or so names will damage the World's karma that bad =) But if so, there is still personal message available.

I don't know if you understood that right: Ghostexile was very clear on that matter, and I'm not going to post things I deleted in the drafts of my last posts and decided to formulate FT-only. I'm neither going to PM you on that, as I think it's completely unnecessary to compare manga since every has its pros and cons. With virtually the same plain arguments you can destroy any series, while angering its fans. And I'm not going to cross that border - not anymore, not when I learned that other subforums like the Toriko one is quite free of those silly comparisons.

Please, respect that and keep the forum clean.


2) Have you read Bleach or Naruto? 3 chapters is not a challenge anymore =) And, once again, the outcome of the fight is the problem, not the length of it.

I don't care how other seriesses handle fights. In fact, with three chapters, Sting/Rogue vs. Natsu/Gajeel is already one of the longest fights of Fairy Tail manga. The only ones going beyond that were IIRC Natsu/Gajeel vs. Luxus and FT+Luxus against Hades.

The outcome of this current battle was pretty much hinted when Natsu attacked ST after Yukino being thrown out. I may repeat: Sting didn't appear to look forward in fighting Natsu, and finally was hold back by his guild master who outright complimented Natsu by saying that there's no one like him in his guild.


But think about that: The ST owned everyone during few years. And their 2 of top 5 members were easily owned. So FT will be considered even stronger than that. That will create not love, but jealousy.

You're making that way too plain. There has always been a rivalty between guilds in Fiore Kingdom, and only Phantom Lord went out of bounds. Especially the guild masters are on very friendly terms as shown in die Lullaby arc.


Do you remember what Council thought of FT? Now that will be multiplied. And so on.

Auge was relieved that Makarov's group came back... Besides Jose there isn't anyone who'd go that far as him.


5) And that doesn't bothers you? In a really good story you forgetting that there is the Author. The imaginary world live on its own by its own laws. I want to live in this illusion and not being poked constantly by the Author.

No. Since I know bad guys from other especially longterm seriesses. They are as bad and evil, but they become as useless, and as a "waste of time" (or more positive: "a necessary step for showing the protagonist's evolving skillls") as Fairy Tail's. Unless the final villain - who is going to be defeated anyways as always.

Again: I won't name serieses or characters.

laughing@you
August 29, 2012, 01:27 PM
This is awesome!!! I'm running out of popcorn here!!! LOL My money is on hoeru!!! Go hoeru go!!!

Let me add to the discussion before this is considered trolling :p


And Twin Dragons are not Dragon Slayers? =)


1) I'm not Sting+Rogue fanboy. I'm still Kurohebi's bitch, no Rogue can change that :derp
You seem to miss the point =( The easiness of victory over them have shown that to Natsu they are just some goons. Like, "the Super Goons, now with the power of 50 goons each!". But(in terms of power) they are still some irrelevant goons. That's the feeling I get from the fight, anyway =)


Not goons more like bullies. The fact that they have been like this for some time means they are strong or somebody else would have mopped the floor with them.




2) I just asked few questions in return to that reasoning. Can anyone answer me?

Why? you aren't listening/reading!! :mono



3) No, you missed the point. The problem is that their power up is not the same. We see that Natsu became a monstrosity. And yet other people with 2nd origin are not that strong. OK, Lucy is not that strong in fight to begin with. Wendy had almost zero attacking ability in the beginning so that's hard to compare. And Elsa got not much from power up. But what about the others?

Of course each one is different, every individual is different. All characters have different capacities and capabilities. Doesn't mean everybody is gonna reach the same strength or level as the main characters. Some of them just peak at certain level and thats it.

Plus it may be called fairy tail but we all know it focused more on natsu. :cheez



Gray was somewhat on par with Natsu in his normal mode. In that normal mode Natsu owned 2 DS. So Gray also should now just go yaoi and rape Rufus in real fight. Do you believe that will be the case?
Jubia was one of Four Elements with power level somewhere around Gajeel. She should be "just as good if not more so than" Gajeel now. Have you seen it in her? Even in Naval Battle she did nothing extraordinary that she couldn't do in those circumstances even without 2nd Origin. Or her and Gajeel's "being a comic relief" power also has doubled? =)
You see, logical reasoning just gone now. And character's strength build up has no value. Anyone can be weakling to our heroes.
The question "What's the chance Tartaros will be the same losers as Raven Tail?" - it's real now =(

Everybody growth is different. Plus circumstances differ from each and everybody you mentioned. Juvia could have owned if she had been concentrating on battle instead of her lollipop.:teehee



1) I doubt 5 or so names will damage the World's karma that bad =) But if so, there is still personal message available.

Rules are rules and they are there for a reason.



4) Right. So every enemy must be monstrosity or being dispersed "to each from his abilities" losers with losers and tops with tops. I dislike that Gray, Jubia and Lucy will fall to the level of Elfman and always will be victimized by stronger opponent as Lucy already is.


Not everybody can be the hero. Not everybody has to be ubber strong. Some must fail in order to achieve a greater level. Plus thats the beauty of the manga it has different storylines to allow other members of fairy tail shine as heroes, even though they are not as strong.

amitnaruto
August 29, 2012, 06:17 PM
Hey

I am confused as to why people are complaining as to why sting and rogue lost so easily. it makes sense. this chapter is simply to bring fairy tail to number 1 and to prove that they are ready for the real powerful characters that are going to be introduced in the upcoming arc. Remember lucy is actually natsu's love interest so it is fair only natsu trashes sabertooth down first especially sting and lector. come on people those two idiotic dragonslayers were asking for it from day one.
My only advice is that people should stop being so logical when it comes to powerups, powerlevels and abilities. Though by convention fire is declared weaker then water, this is not the case in this manga. It is truly different and amazing, natsu having only just fire is able to fight and beat opponents that based by his affinities he shouldn't be able to. We should enjoy the manga not criticize it for such small things.
In my opinion, the most confusing powerups are in bleach, kenpachi is losing and somehow renji and his captain died and ichigo's powers seem to make no sense this time. Here things make sense to me anyways

Edelheld
August 29, 2012, 08:19 PM
1) Characters grow differently. Every leading character - Natsu is that one - grows exceptionally. Elsa actually said it right away, that Natsu eventually will surpass her.
2) I'm neither going to PM you on that, as I think it's completely unnecessary to compare manga since every has its pros and cons. ..
3) The outcome of this current battle was pretty much hinted when Natsu attacked ST after Yukino being thrown out. I may repeat: Sting didn't appear to look forward in fighting Natsu, and finally was hold back by his guild master who outright complimented Natsu by saying that there's no one like him in his guild.
4) You're making that way too plain. There has always been a rivalty between guilds in Fiore Kingdom, and only Phantom Lord went out of bounds. Especially the guild masters are on very friendly terms as shown in die Lullaby arc.
5) Auge was relieved that Makarov's group came back... Besides Jose there isn't anyone who'd go that far as him.
6) No. Since I know bad guys from other especially longterm seriesses. They are as bad and evil, but they become as useless, and as a "waste of time" (or more positive: "a necessary step for showing the protagonist's evolving skillls") as Fairy Tail's. Unless the final villain - who is going to be defeated anyways as always.

1) For those who went training their progress would differ. But for people with opened 2nd Origin it will not - they've got the same power up that multiplied their power so their progress is the same. If 2 characters with same power level were strengthened by absolutely same thing - it's just logical that after power up they are still on the same level. Like, if first character got 5(initial power level)*2(2nd origin)=10 power level and 2nd character got 6*2=31 power level - something is very wrong here.
2) No problem, let's give everyone a chance to fail in remembering a perfectly strong and legitimate build up of a characters strength that turned out to be absolute BS with no comic relief purposes =)
3) Well, "no brat" is not "no one" =)
If you got that Sting and Rogue will fail terribly fighting Natsu solely by that one episode then I bow to your foresight power. But I still doubt it =)
4) Times have changed. Do you take that FT bullying by Twilight Ogre as something completely OK in the guilds relations?
5) There's 1 man against the hive mind. There was Yajima in the previous Council - that didn't help much.
6) But they were good when they were needed, right? They've put up some fight before losing, right? Their hype were balanced with the outcome of the fight, right?
It's just stupid to inflate a huge hype for some small fry.


1) Not goons more like bullies. The fact that they have been like this for some time means they are strong or somebody else would have mopped the floor with them.
2) Why? you aren't listening/reading!! :mono
3) Of course each one is different, every individual is different. All characters have different capacities and capabilities. Doesn't mean everybody is gonna reach the same strength or level as the main characters. Some of them just peak at certain level and thats it.
4) Rules are rules and they are there for a reason.
5) Not everybody can be the hero. Not everybody has to be ubber strong. Some must fail in order to achieve a greater level. Plus thats the beauty of the manga it has different storylines to allow other members of fairy tail shine as heroes, even though they are not as strong.
1) But it's not like with main FT mages all good mages gone. There were still people like Jura, Lyon or Kagura. Just how strong Natsu have become to defeat them easily?
2) Hey, maybe that's you are the one who's not listening! =/ I'll go reread all answers.
3) So that's it for Gray and Jubia? =(
Here goes answer #1 to hoeru.
4) There is personal message.
5) But that's the sad story 'cos they became weaklings =(

GomuGomu_Getsuga
August 29, 2012, 08:52 PM
This is the first time Natsu has ever defeated two "cool looking" enemies at once. I'm sure there will be stronger, cool-looking opponents that will mop the floor with him later on. Why do Sting and Rouge have to be strong in order to be good characters? Why does Natsu have to be weak? This is the point in time where Natsu has finally reached a high plateau.

adbanginwar
August 29, 2012, 09:35 PM
Hey

I am confused as to why people are complaining as to why sting and rogue lost so easily. it makes sense. this chapter is simply to bring fairy tail to number 1 and to prove that they are ready for the real powerful characters that are going to be introduced in the upcoming arc. Remember lucy is actually natsu's love interest so it is fair only natsu trashes sabertooth down first especially sting and lector. come on people those two idiotic dragonslayers were asking for it from day one.
My only advice is that people should stop being so logical when it comes to powerups, powerlevels and abilities. Though by convention fire is declared weaker then water, this is not the case in this manga. It is truly different and amazing, natsu having only just fire is able to fight and beat opponents that based by his affinities he shouldn't be able to. We should enjoy the manga not criticize it for such small things.
In my opinion, the most confusing powerups are in bleach, kenpachi is losing and somehow renji and his captain died and ichigo's powers seem to make no sense this time. Here things make sense to me anyways

one simple reason is after a time gap of 7 years, he goes defeating 2 of top 5 in the top guild. i mean everybody guessed the result of the fight but this is pathetic. opening second origin may be justified for this powerup but then it didnot work for lucy

---------- Post added at 08:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 AM ----------


This is the first time Natsu has ever defeated two "cool looking" enemies at once. I'm sure there will be stronger, cool-looking opponents that will mop the floor with him later on. Why do Sting and Rouge have to be strong in order to be good characters? Why does Natsu have to be weak? This is the point in time where Natsu has finally reached a high plateau.

Sting and Rouge have to be because they are projected so in the story. Natsu does not have to be weak but there should be reason for powerup.

Zoro #1
August 29, 2012, 09:53 PM
I think people are really seeing a lot more into Rouge and Sting. For Natsu to beat them easily is not a surprise considering the past fights that he was in, and how hard those fights were compared to these two.

-Ken-
August 29, 2012, 10:25 PM
one simple reason is after a time gap of 7 years, he goes defeating 2 of top 5 in the top guild. i mean everybody guessed the result of the fight but this is pathetic. opening second origin may be justified for this powerup but then it didnot work for lucy


It is not stated anywhere that second origin magical power is the same for every mage. For example, Lucy Second Origin might have 100 MP. Natsu Second Origin might have 300 MP. For example.

Chris38
August 30, 2012, 12:03 AM
It is not stated anywhere that second origin magical power is the same for every mage. For example, Lucy Second Origin might have 100 MP. Natsu Second Origin might have 300 MP. For example.

True, that might be a possibility, but in my opinion the amount of boost someone receives, from awakening their second origin, depends on how far, magically developed that person has been, before Ultear's magic has been used on them.

Basing it on examples, in the case of:

Erza - the boost, had a pretty small or minimal effect on her, considering the fact that she probably already, naturally, unlocked her second origin.

In the case of Natsu and Gray - I would say that they received a medium sized power boost, from unlocking their Second Origin's - the reason, being the fact that they have already been considered as candidates for the S mage class promotion, so I assume they, where pretty close to unlocking their second origin in a natural way.

Finally, the most significant boost came to those, who had the least magical development, like Lucy (which, might not be so obvious, at the moment, but I think we will definitely see it, after she gains a power up from her connection with the dragons / the Eclipse Gate plan), Wendy - quite obvious power boost, after her fight with Chelia, and Levy (who, if I remember correctly also underwent Ultear's second origin unlocking ritual) - so far, we haven't seen her do anything, but I think that we might see it, once this whole Eclipse Gate plan starts for real.

At least that's how I look on this topic.

kkck
August 30, 2012, 12:33 AM
To be honest I don't see how it is possible that lucy got a greater boost than natsu comparatively. I don't see how that would make sense with what we just saw. Lucy got pretty strong but her power does not seem to be at a level where she would be if her power boost was that huge. Natsu got a boost strong enough to allow him to fight 2 DF DS at the same time and come out on top easily. He didn't even need his lightning flame. Seeing erza defeat 100 monster, 1 of which was comparable in power to the 10 holy mages and natsu get such a powerup my impression would be the most extreme opposite of the boost being smaller for stronger people. If second origin matches the original magical container then it would make sense that a stronger mage would get more power out of it. In turn having second origin perhaps allows the user to grow stronger faster (we were never told that the 2 magical containers would unify or anything once activated).

hoeru
August 30, 2012, 03:02 AM
Would you care not to add stuff into quotes from my posts, please?


If 2 characters with same power level were strengthened by absolutely same thing - it's just logical that after power up they are still on the same level. Like, if first character got 5(initial power level)*2(2nd origin)=10 power level and 2nd character got 6*2=31 power level - something is very wrong here.

Yeah "something" is "very wrong" there: Both your thesis and your argumentation. Different characters develop/evolve their powers differently. It's nowhere different from the Real Life. People nor characters can NEVER face the exact same opponents, can NEVER act the same - as they can't be at the same space in the same time, not even twins nor clones can.


3) Well, "no brat" is not "no one" =)
If you got that Sting and Rogue will fail terribly fighting Natsu solely by that one episode then I bow to your foresight power. But I still doubt it =)

Are you trying to nitpick on words from careless translation from Mangapanda? Look around in the ST guild. There are nothing but brats.


4) Times have changed. Do you take that FT bullying by Twilight Ogre as something completely OK in the guilds relations?

Yes, when the top members were gone, no one took S rank missions which are the most profitable ones because not even the guild master was an approved S rank mage, so the Council didn't give them S rank mission and FT got into financial trouble. That was all said.


6) But they were good when they were needed, right? They've put up some fight before losing, right? Their hype were balanced with the outcome of the fight, right?
It's just stupid to inflate a huge hype for some small fry.

So a character losing to a protagonist or title character makes him/her automatically nothing but a small fry?


one simple reason is after a time gap of 7 years, he goes defeating 2 of top 5 in the top guild. i mean everybody guessed the result of the fight but this is pathetic. opening second origin may be justified for this powerup but then it didnot work for lucy

Being in the "Top 5" of a guild doesn't make one strong for real nor unbeatable - bringing that up again on several occasions is pathetic and proves nothing. And Lucy is without her keys and stellar whip pretty "useless", and in her battle against Redhair her power was clearly drained from outside of the battlefield - so it's pathetic to bring her up in this discussion on second origin while completely ignoring what actually happened.

ace17
August 30, 2012, 06:03 AM
y r ppl still complaining about natsu trashing rogue and sting im actually glad that he did i was getting sick of sabertooth and of them boasting about killing their dragons and it looks liuke they r not even part of the main plot in this arc so im fine with the way things r going in all honestly tho i really dont like natsu pushing gajeel to the side like that but whatever hopefully we get to c who was crying i dont think its zeref its too risky for him since he doesnt like being around ppl i think its a new character

adbanginwar
August 30, 2012, 08:45 AM
Being in the "Top 5" of a guild doesn't make one strong for real nor unbeatable - bringing that up again on several occasions is pathetic and proves nothing. And Lucy is without her keys and stellar whip pretty "useless", and in her battle against Redhair her power was clearly drained from outside of the battlefield - so it's pathetic to bring her up in this discussion on second origin while completely ignoring what actually happened.

you are right. they are not unbeatable but they raised their powers twice(level 3) and natsu beat them with just level 1 power of his.

i agree on lucy being useless. maybe gray's match will prove what second origin did to him.

Ifrit
August 30, 2012, 11:47 AM
I'm not sure why every1 giving Sabertooth this much credit, go to beginning of the tournament, you will be surprise to see that none of the decent mages we knew before did participate ever.

Jura, Leon, Fairy Tail strongest members..and I think it was the first appearance for Kagura, or it was said the she never got serious in a fight cant remember. But my point is not sure why Sabertooth was the strongest if they did not fight any1 strong enough to hold his ground.

Roman
August 30, 2012, 12:55 PM
I read/watched the fight against Hades, again. Gotta say that there is really no reason for anyone to complain. The third generation of Dragon Slayers is weak as hell. Like I said before, they were one of the cocky characters who had to learn their pathetic place. All you can do is imagine just how strong Natsu would be in Lightning/Flame mode against them. Laxus could also probably kick their ass without breaking a sweat.

sarutobi_sensei
August 30, 2012, 07:38 PM
you are right. they are not unbeatable but they raised their powers twice(level 3) and natsu beat them with just level 1 power of his.

i agree on lucy being useless. maybe gray's match will prove what second origin did to him.

LOL Lucy being useless? She lost not because she was useless, but because her first opponent cheated, threatened a child from the audience and later because a guy from the audience canceled her magical power.

Why she lost to Minerva? Because Minerva has some sort of teleportation magic that moved both her personal objects as well as herself into Minerva's hands. She wasn't useless, she fought damn well.

lawlett-kun
August 30, 2012, 08:46 PM
LOL Lucy being useless? She lost not because she was useless, but because her first opponent cheated, threatened a child from the audience and later because a guy from the audience canceled her magical power.

Why she lost to Minerva? Because Minerva has some sort of teleportation magic that moved both her personal objects as well as herself into Minerva's hands. She wasn't useless, she fought damn well.

while i agree with you on the first fight comment pretty much, with minerva case she was pretty much useless.Not a hater, sincerely love Lucy. All hail lucy. But fiirst of all she is clearly has no control over aquarius, all she did in this water blob was using 2 spirits to kinda hold in the blob just to get trashed by minerva.Having surpised face the whole time doesnt really count as "fought well".She was 2nd place only becuz Minerva wanted it to be so.Lucy is really pushing the weak limits in thos arc.She better pick her things up

JunKisaragi
August 30, 2012, 08:48 PM
you are right. they are not unbeatable but they raised their powers twice(level 3) and natsu beat them with just level 1 power of his.

i agree on lucy being useless. maybe gray's match will prove what second origin did to him.

Actually, he said Lucy, without her keys and stellar whip, is pretty useless. But that is pretty much understandable seeing as "holder type" magicians NEED to have their magical items on hand (hence the term holder) for them to use magic. But Lucy as a person though is not useless. She has shown pulling through with wit (and maybe a great degree of luck) alone. Plus, she gives a considerable amount of "Nakama Power-up" to the guild. Although I do want to see her being more proficient in physical combat though. Like maybe lashing out combos, attacking in perfect sync with 2 other stellar spirits. *sigh*

Sting and Rogue are SUPPOSED to be stronger with their drives and DFs. But then again, we have to look into where they were, magical power-wise, to begin with since those are power-ups. You know, something that BOOSTS ones current power.

We can't say for sure that they were THAT powerful as we don't have a basis other than what's given: that they're in the Top 5 of their Guild and that they supposedly killed their dragons, which now we know has some angle to it. We just got reeled into thinking that they were strong based on those assumptions alone, and I believe this chapter was made to show us that that is not the case.

Edelheld
August 30, 2012, 09:02 PM
OK, I reread carefully that part explaining the 2nd Origin (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v25/c263/18.html) and got the problem. Just close the picture and read only Ultear's words. The picture explaining the text is totally misguiding. It makes you think there are 2 containers and the power is doubled with 2nd Origin but that's not the case. There is only 1 partially available container of mana. If we all agree that Elsa already got her 2nd Origin unlocked then that unavailable space can be opened by training. You can call that unavailable part as "a hidden potential". So 2nd Origin actually unlocks the access to one's true full potential.
Then, of course, each mage would have different proportion of available and unavailable space and get different power up from unlocking his true potential.
Problem is solved.
But being a pain in the neck I am I still have one problem with that: If that assumption is true then why such important and crucial plot twist was wrapped in such stupid set up of "go celebrate for 3 months of real time and then get asspull power up that might turn you into monstrosity"? With that troll power up they got more than with any previous legitimate hardly earned power up...


Would you care not to add stuff into quotes from my posts, please?
I just used to it that way but if you ask..


Yeah "something" is "very wrong" there: Both your thesis and your argumentation. Different characters develop/evolve their powers differently. It's nowhere different from the Real Life. People nor characters can NEVER face the exact same opponents, can NEVER act the same - as they can't be at the same space in the same time, not even twins nor clones can.
I got that part solved.
One asks. One seeks. One finds the answer. That's how the science works. And your "It's just the way it is", "It's always the same", "You simply must accept it" ain't helping at all.
You just don't have scientific mind in you ;)


Are you trying to nitpick on words from careless translation from Mangapanda? Look around in the ST guild. There are nothing but brats.
I took it from Mangahere actually, is that bad?
I think you are being biased on ST. Do you know all their mages? Do you think Rufus, for example, is just a brat? Why are you diminishing them so much?


Yes, when the top members were gone, no one took S rank missions which are the most profitable ones because not even the guild master was an approved S rank mage, so the Council didn't give them S rank mission and FT got into financial trouble. That was all said.
Hmm, so it's OK to you being verbally and physically humiliated and insulted 'cos you missed the paycheck? They've been treated like poor people are treated by some people - with despise and disgust.
Pretty human relations between the guilds out there. So why there is no place for jealousy and envy?


So a character losing to a protagonist or title character makes him/her automatically nothing but a small fry?
Hey, that's what people are saying. Just read the posts.
Personally for me the fight went the way that indicates them as such. The whole fight is like Natsu just checked their level and then seeing their losers level owned them with ease.


Being in the "Top 5" of a guild doesn't make one strong for real nor unbeatable - bringing that up again on several occasions is pathetic and proves nothing. And Lucy is without her keys and stellar whip pretty "useless", and in her battle against Redhair her power was clearly drained from outside of the battlefield - so it's pathetic to bring her up in this discussion on second origin while completely ignoring what actually happened.
But being in the "Top 5" of the strongest guild around does.
And about Lucy - she somewhat doubled her abilities now being able to hold 2 Spirits at once. Natsu's increase of power is just way bigger than simply being doubled.


I'm not sure why every1 giving Sabertooth this much credit, go to beginning of the tournament, you will be surprise to see that none of the decent mages we knew before did participate ever.
Jura, Leon, Fairy Tail strongest members..and I think it was the first appearance for Kagura, or it was said the she never got serious in a fight cant remember. But my point is not sure why Sabertooth was the strongest if they did not fight any1 strong enough to hold his ground.
Kagura was present, Bacchus might have been participating, whole bunch of unfamiliar but yet decent mages might have been participated too. ST were considered to be the strongest not solely because of the Tournament. It's just the visual indication of the status.

-Ken-
August 30, 2012, 09:38 PM
I took it from Mangahere actually, is that bad?
I think you are being biased on ST. Do you know all their mages? Do you think Rufus, for example, is just a brat? Why are you diminishing them so much?


Yeah. I call someone who do something like smiling in times like this.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/fairy_tail/v26/c291/21.html

a brat. Your team winning is no excuse. I'll probably feel sorry for my opponent(s) if my teammates embarrass them in some unnecessary way. Rouge is probably the only whom I don't consider to be a brat.



But being in the "Top 5" of the strongest guild around does.
And about Lucy - she somewhat doubled her abilities now being able to hold 2 Spirits at once. Natsu's increase of power is just way bigger than simply being doubled.

It is way bigger than double. And your point? Natsu second origin is simply bigger than Lucy. I don't see any problem with this.


Kagura was present, Bacchus might have been participating, whole bunch of unfamiliar but yet decent mages might have been participated too. ST were considered to be the strongest not solely because of the Tournament. It's just the visual indication of the status.

Kagura was there, but she has not gotten serious. Bacchus is just a fail of a character from what we've seen.

hoeru
August 31, 2012, 03:50 AM
I got that part solved.
One asks. One seeks. One finds the answer. That's how the science works. And your "It's just the way it is", "It's always the same", "You simply must accept it" ain't helping at all.
You just don't have scientific mind in you ;)
No. You were trying to bring up maths on a topic about individual (basic) strength, abilities and progress of different characters. That simply does not work at all.

If character A is weaker than character B, there's like ZERO guarantee that A gets stronger than B by simply training ten times harder.


I think you are being biased on ST. Do you know all their mages? Do you think Rufus, for example, is just a brat? Why are you diminishing them so much?
Wait. I'm not buying the hype (and used the term "brat" as Gemma and Makarov did btw) - and I am the one being biased?

Of course, the ST guild members are the same kind of brats as most of the FT members.


Hmm, so it's OK to you being verbally and physically humiliated and insulted 'cos you missed the paycheck?
No. I never said such a thing. And even though scum is scum, they can be scum for totally different motivations and reasons. Phantom Lord acted out of jealousy and of fear because of the Heartfilia family's money benefitting FT, Twilight Orge out of arrogance.


Hey, that's what people are saying. Just read the posts.
Are you following other peoples' opinions? I don't share that point, and there's no reason to join in some canon without thinking nor looking at strength relations.


But being in the "Top 5" of the strongest guild around does.
No. Statements like those only rise expectations without actually saying something about the real strength. 4 of the Top 5 failed their fame on Natsu's raid on ST.

adbanginwar
August 31, 2012, 04:48 AM
No. Statements like those only rise expectations without actually saying something about the real strength. 4 of the Top 5 failed their fame on Natsu's raid on ST.

Most of the mage's strength is comment on such statements. Gildart is strongest, previously it was Laxus before gildarts came, then it was Natsu,grays,erza being strongest team, etc.

Although the statement will not give you exact value but it tells you general perspective where these mages sit. sometimes overstated but you get the idea.

ScottH87
August 31, 2012, 04:57 AM
Chapters out!

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/297

ace17
August 31, 2012, 06:56 AM
i hate cliff hangers, damn it ok now we know its levy narrating apparently every1 is died damn man im guessing that who ever that women was she is from the future sent back to help fairy tail and im also guessing its some1 from fairy tail the greatest part of this chapter was seeing genma's face lol and a graveyardfor dragons it would if they can back to life like skyrim

Edelheld
August 31, 2012, 10:37 AM
1) Yeah. I call someone who do something like smiling in times like this a brat. Your team winning is no excuse. I'll probably feel sorry for my opponent(s) if my teammates embarrass them in some unnecessary way. Rouge is probably the only whom I don't consider to be a brat.
2) It is way bigger than double. And your point? Natsu second origin is simply bigger than Lucy. I don't see any problem with this.
3) Kagura was there, but she has not gotten serious. Bacchus is just a fail of a character from what we've seen.
1) Brat or not it doesn't matter. If anyone could foresee the outcome of that fight solely by that statement alone, then I bow to their experience in mangas =)
2) My point was "Why it's bigger?". And no one explained me that, everyone was just persuading me to take it for granted as some divine commandment you shall not doubt. That's just some religious-like crap I hate.
3) I doubt that #1 title was given solely by the Tournament. But whatever, I already got that being #1 means nothing. From now on no hype is allowed =/


No. You were trying to bring up maths on a topic about individual (basic) strength, abilities and progress of different characters. That simply does not work at all.
If character A is weaker than character B, there's like ZERO guarantee that A gets stronger than B by simply training ten times harder.
I wanted the reason why. I asked and searched. I found the answer. And all you kept saying was just "it is the way it is, it is the way the Author did it, you must simply accept it, repent for all your doubts!" =)
I brought the math and I calculated the reason. And you can keep taking it all for granted.
You were right and I were wrong. But now I know why I was wrong and you still don't know why you were right =)


Wait. I'm not buying the hype (and used the term "brat" as Gemma and Makarov did btw) - and I am the one being biased?
Of course, the ST guild members are the same kind of brats as most of the FT members.
I simply love how you act as some kind of shamanic manga tribe leader. You act so experienced and all-wise, you can even predict the future by simple sign no one paid attention to. Everyone respect you for your experience. But yet you seem to dislike when I tried to question the Gods ways.
No offense, of course, that's just my mental picture of you now
:teehee


No. I never said such a thing. And even though scum is scum, they can be scum for totally different motivations and reasons. Phantom Lord acted out of jealousy and of fear because of the Heartfilia family's money benefitting FT, Twilight Orge out of arrogance.
The point was that the guilds have same relationships as humans do. And I was proven right 'cos now it's FT vs. everyone else =)


Are you following other peoples' opinions? I don't share that point, and there's no reason to join in some canon without thinking nor looking at strength relations.
I just wanted to show you that I'm not alone here and a lot of people took it that way. The only difference is that some like it and some don't.


No. Statements like those only rise expectations without actually saying something about the real strength. 4 of the Top 5 failed their fame on Natsu's raid on ST.
The more you inflate the strength of some weak character the more dislike you'll get when the truth about his power is revealed. The Author made a mistake.

exacta
August 31, 2012, 10:55 AM
Jiemma's reaction to Sabertooths loss mirrors mine quite well lol. Well, now Sabertooth is a joke. Everyone wants to fight FT now. I would like to see Ichiya fight Natsu though. If Jura loses to Laxus.....well I'm not going to drop FT because its not exactly much trouble to follow any manga when it gets released once a week, but this arc will have hit an even bigger low. I'm hoping Kagura doesn't fight Erza because then she will get trolled too. I don't really get why Ren wants to fight Gajeel since Natsu just humiliated him last week but hey I think Gajeels awesome too.

And I'm not buying any of this Carla bullshit or Levi's either. ANY OF IT. Carla's future seeing powers have already been ruined by Mashima's stupid storytelling last arc, and I don't but anything Levi's saying at all. Mashima doesn't have the balls to do anything bad to FT. Sting and Rogue couldn't even give Natsu by himself in his weakest form trouble. And Acnologia couldn't even damage Tenroujima. I'am not at all convinced, and hopefully will be pleasantly surprised later. And I hope that chick isn't Layla or a Lucy look-a-like. If it is, then Mashima should just go back and continue Rave somehow lol. Because that would be exactly like Sieghart and Resha Valentine. And Jellal pretty much is Sieghart....and Layla/Lucy does look like Elie/Resha.

lawlett-kun
August 31, 2012, 10:57 AM
on the side note whats with Ren's newfound obsession with gajeel?!

exacta
August 31, 2012, 11:02 AM
Again, it's not a lie. They are strong. Stronger than average. Not stronger than Natsu and Gajeel. And place Laxus, Erza, Mirajane, Gérard, Ultear, Jura, Guildartz on that battlefield and the result would've been the same.
\

Sting and Rogue are a major disappointment,sadly. Minerva and Jiemma I still believe in, Rufus won't have to fight Natsu but if Orga fights Laxus I think he's screwed. Yomazu and Kawazu gave Gajeel a shit ton of trouble, and they weren't even part of GH's strongest members. Gajeel could've taken Sting and Rogue without doing much at all. Gajeel has 3 months of training, but honestly Sting and Rogue couldn't even perform in their fight as well as two lackeys from a dark guild 7 years ago. Come onnnnn.

Dylan21
August 31, 2012, 11:14 AM
5 people will die , apparently one of them is Gajeel, so...... maybe the 5 DS ? I just hope Mashima won't pull another "we're dead-crap" like tenrou island

And the Mysterious girl might be Lucy herself from the past or future or whatever, something like this... .. if you have read Rave Master you'll know that Mashima is not new to Time-travel, and in that situation Sieghart(now Jellal) and Elie-Resha(now Lucy) were the protagonists