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ttxdragon
February 02, 2007, 07:01 PM
Get Chapter 261 Goodies HERE (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=14341.0)

_________________________________________________

So Chapter 261 is finally here.

There is Chad's new attacks, two of them we get to see. Saying that Gantenbein was outmatched would be an understatement...
And from the ruins of the fight Chad walks out just to hit the first espada fight in the HM-Arc: Chad against Noitora!
That alone would already be much to make a great chapter, but we get to see that chads attack does seemingly nothing to Noitora o.O kinda much of a difference in power compared to gantenbein...
The Chapter ends with blood splattering, we know neither from whom it is nor if it is even in this world :oh Speculate away! :amuse

AnimeLoverX
February 02, 2007, 07:12 PM
Well.. I think Chad will get injured badly again.. beaten up
Is it just me or does it seem Chad is NEVER gonna reach up to Ichigo and the others?
I think the author hates Chad >_<

Then... someone will come and save Chad, probably Rukia or Renji
O yea.. that Big haired dude will sacrifice himself to save Chad YEA!

Hitsugaya_333
February 02, 2007, 07:18 PM
Blood = Urahara?

Edit: If that's Urahara, then Yoruichi probably came along too. They could definitely put up a fight against a high-ranking Espada.

Killmnky7
February 02, 2007, 07:57 PM
Blood = Urahara?

Edit: If that's Urahara, then Yoruichi probably came along too. They could definitely put up a fight against a high-ranking Espada.


im not really feelin this idea becuz if that were the case then it would probably lead to the final fight against the espada in this arc. I really think that the final fight with the Espada will include all of soul society.

More on topic:
I really hope chad fights him and by fight i mean like a seious fight not a massacre of chad by the super strong espada. the bleach storyline never turns out in chads favor. he can never have a good day of being strong. when he finally seems pretty strong they just snatch that away from him. =(
Im with AnimeloverX on this one... Kubo just hates Chad

Hitsugaya_333
February 02, 2007, 08:10 PM
im not really feelin this idea becuz if that were the case then it would probably lead to the final fight against the espada in this arc. I really think that the final fight with the Espada will include all of soul society.

More on topic:
I really hope chad fights him and by fight i mean like a seious fight not a massacre of chad by the super strong espada. the bleach storyline never turns out in chads favor. he can never have a good day of being strong. when he finally seems pretty strong they just snatch that away from him. =(
Im with AnimeloverX on this one... Kubo just hates Chad


Not necessarily. Urahara and Yoruichi could just be back-up.

I agree. Kubo hates Chad; unless Chad doesn't even fall unconscious and nobody saves him. Then Kubo doesn't hate Chad.

Fortisdiablos
February 02, 2007, 08:28 PM
You guys are forgetting, that if Noitora is indeed epspada number 3, then even Ichigo would get spanked by him. So why the hell would you possibly expect Chado to be able to stand up to him?[br]Posted on: February 02, 2007, 08:28:37 PM_________________________________________________And where did this Urahara theory come from? Did I miss something?

Hitsugaya_333
February 02, 2007, 08:50 PM
You guys are forgetting, that if Noitora is indeed epspada number 3, then even Ichigo would get spanked by him. So why the hell would you possibly expect Chado to be able to stand up to him?[br]Posted on: February 02, 2007, 08:28:37 PM_________________________________________________And where did this Urahara theory come from? Did I miss something?


We're just being a bit too optimistic.

As for the Urahara theory, I think (I've seen one other person talk about it) that the blood at the end of the chapter is Benihime's blood mist shield, possibly protecting Sado.

mugen
February 02, 2007, 08:54 PM
hhm...
renji and rukia bypass fighting any ex-swords and go straight for hollows ranked 1-10 :jbya
i hope :wtf

Silhouette
February 02, 2007, 09:03 PM
Noitora's rank hasn't been told so far, the talk about him being no. 3 or 4 is just speculations based on the "tea part theory"

I doubt it's Urahara because Urahara's defense takes the form of a blood shield not random blood splattering
I think the blood will turn out to be Gan's. Like Dorr, Gan deffies the Espada in his last moment.
I don't think it's Sado's blood because he won't lose to unreleased Noitora

My prediction: since Sado only punched with his left arm, he will show what it can really do, I am assuming Cero or some thing similar which will force Noitora to release.

Aslo after Sado broke the wall and moved to different place, Rukia might run into him...they are the only ones whithout a partner so I am guessing they will team up somehow.

Killmnky7
February 02, 2007, 09:17 PM
what happened to showing everyone's fight. they only showed ichigo chad and ishida's fighs. i think
bad memory. i agree with wat Fortisdiablos said. Ichigo had problems with grimmjow even after goin hollow so we really shouldnt expect chad to surpass ichigo

Hitsugaya_333
February 02, 2007, 09:40 PM
Noitora's rank hasn't been told so far, the talk about him being no. 3 or 4 is just speculations based on the "tea part theory"

I doubt it's Urahara because Urahara's defense takes the form of a blood shield not random blood splattering
I think the blood will turn out to be Gan's. Like Dorr, Gan deffies the Espada in his last moment.
I don't think it's Sado's blood because he won't lose to unreleased Noitora

My prediction: since Sado only punched with his left arm, he will show what it can really do, I am assuming Cero or some thing similar which will force Noitora to release.

Aslo after Sado broke the wall and moved to different place, Rukia might run into him...they are the only ones whithout a partner so I am guessing they will team up somehow.



I remember Dordoni doing that, but Uryu's opponent didn't, so we can't be sure if Gantenbein will do the same.

I think Noitora already released, based on that huge sickle. Perhaps some espadas have releases (shikai/bankai) like shinigami, because, if I remember correctly, the stronger an arrancar is, the more its appearance and powers resemble those of shinigami.

I think everyone will run into each other. There's no map of how the hallways turn. They could all end up in one place, where Sado is now.

Fortisdiablos
February 02, 2007, 09:42 PM
I can't help but think that they were split up individually for a reason. Even if they don't all fight someone, there has to be something for them to accomplish on their own. And didn't some unknown figure show up at Renji's location, or am I imagining things?

Hitsugaya_333
February 02, 2007, 10:44 PM
I can't help but think that they were split up individually for a reason. Even if they don't all fight someone, there has to be something for them to accomplish on their own. And didn't some unknown figure show up at Renji's location, or am I imagining things?
What chapter was that? I have all post-SS arc chapters on my hard drive, so I can check.

Silhouette
February 02, 2007, 11:04 PM
I think Noitora already released, based on that huge sickle. Perhaps some espadas have releases (shikai/bankai) like shinigami, because, if I remember correctly, the stronger an arrancar is, the more its appearance and powers resemble those of shinigami.


I still think Noitora is yet to release but there is a chance it will be in the next chapter, I believe the huge scythe isn't his release because for two reasons
1- Espadas don't start out thier fight in a released state...not even ex espadas did that
2- The released form changes the appearance of an Espada showing his/her true form rather than just giving them a huge weapon

Hitsugaya_333
February 02, 2007, 11:07 PM
I think Noitora already released, based on that huge sickle. Perhaps some espadas have releases (shikai/bankai) like shinigami, because, if I remember correctly, the stronger an arrancar is, the more its appearance and powers resemble those of shinigami.


I still think Noitora is yet to release but there is a chance it will be in the next chapter, I believe the huge scythe isn't his release because for two reasons
1- Espadas don't start out thier fight in a released state...not even ex espadas did that
2- The released form changes the appearance of an Espada showing his/her true form rather than just giving them a huge weapon


I know that, but maybe there are exceptions that we don't know about yet. And maybe, Noitora already released because he's extremely bloodthirsty, or Aizen ordered him to.

1nfamous
February 03, 2007, 12:36 AM
ommggg....the devils left arm is HOTT!!!! .. den that guy was freaking krazi ....taking Chads punch like that

Hitsugaya_333
February 03, 2007, 12:47 AM
ommggg....the devils left arm is HOTT!!!! .. den that guy was freaking krazi ....taking Chads punch like that
That's to be expected from an Espada.

AnimeLoverX
February 03, 2007, 12:54 AM
well... Espada are just.. freakin sick
No matter how strong Chad got.. he just ALWAYS loses

dam... i predict that Chad will survive

sahugani
February 03, 2007, 03:14 AM
i'm pretty certain that neither Chad nor Noitora will sustain significant damage. The reasons for the stalemate are well established. Chad's loss would be too repetative of the Soul Society arc and Noitora' loss would be just wrong this early. Noitora is either there to punish Gantenbien or test the strength of Chad. Noitora will leave after a chapter or 2 and Chad will be left in a state similar to Ichigo after meeting Grimmjow, but Chad will handle it better and continue to move on (with any luck, there is still hope for him to meet with Renji later on. i actually think that it will be Renji who enters the main fight with Noitora later on. i think that his Circle theme with the chain of rings on his outfit and weapon will make a released form that Renji's bankai will be pitted against)

Hitsugaya_333
February 03, 2007, 03:15 AM
That sounds good.

venicia777
February 03, 2007, 04:09 AM
i'm pretty certain that neither Chad nor Noitora will sustain significant damage. The reasons for the stalemate are well established. Chad's loss would be too repetative of the Soul Society arc and Noitora' loss would be just wrong this early. Noitora is either there to punish Gantenbien or test the strength of Chad. Noitora will leave after a chapter or 2 and Chad will be left in a state similar to Ichigo after meeting Grimmjow, but Chad will handle it better and continue to move on (with any luck, there is still hope for him to meet with Renji later on. i actually think that it will be Renji who enters the main fight with Noitora later on. i think that his Circle theme with the chain of rings on his outfit and weapon will make a released form that Renji's bankai will be pitted against)


Yeah!! the repetitiveness is something that has somehow stalked this arc immediately ichigo decided to go after inoue. Thats why i hope Kubo doesnt let Sado-kun be the first to go down again.

sahugani
February 03, 2007, 04:26 AM
exactly. even the "female friend rescue" aspect of this arc can be defended to some extent as not repetative due to the circumstances behind Orihime's capture. If Chad is once again the first to fight and lose to one of the top ranking group, it becomes a level of dejavu that no good storywriter in his right mind would reincorperate into the arc. if any character from the original 5 should fall to an Espada, i think it should be Ishida as he got to show off against Maiyuri in the Soul Society arc. we also saw in his battle with Chirruchi that he didn't really increase his actual abilities all that much, he just got better toys. I can't see him keep pulling out more toys to deal with an arrancar. Although he's still probably stronger than Rukia, i believe Rukia's part in this arc will be first contact with Orihime and possibly Orihime and her (near the end of the arc of course as Orihime returns to them) combo against an arrancar (as you can see i really want combos from the training pairs...CHAD X RENJI)

Tyrael
February 03, 2007, 04:42 AM
"O yea.. that Big haired dude will sacrifice himself to save Chad YEA!"

I agree with this.
I think the blood we saw belongs to the afro guy.
Then he will say something clever and touching to Chad, the he will be killed by the espada.

Tyrael

sahugani
February 03, 2007, 04:48 AM
i like the idea of Gantenbien actually sacrificing himself to save Chad from a deadly blow. of all the tres cifras fights, this one's contestants both seemed to hold eachother's powers in high regard and were respectful to eachother the entire way through. Gantenbien, though kicking Chad's ass at the beginning, was never rude to him like Chirruchi and Doldorni were and Chad showed that same level of respect throughout the fight and with his words after his victory. i can easily see Gantenbien doing all in his power to repay that kindness

EvolutionIX
February 03, 2007, 05:18 AM
I agree with whoever said that Noitora is sent to chad just to test his power.
In the SS arc, Gin came along early(but he wasnt sent by yamamoto), however it works the same way.
In fact, it is almost similar arcs if you think about it...saving someone, fighting opponents to try to rescue that person and also gets harder as they go. It is almost similar!!

rai-chu
February 03, 2007, 05:22 AM
The battle will not be concluded. It means that there will be no winner or loser.

Hitsugaya_333
February 03, 2007, 05:29 AM
I agree with whoever said that Noitora is sent to chad just to test his power.
In the SS arc, Gin came along early(but he wasnt sent by yamamoto), however it works the same way.
In fact, it is almost similar arcs if you think about it...saving someone, fighting opponents to try to rescue that person and also gets harder as they go. It is almost similar!!


I want to see Gin fight! Perhaps he and Hitsugaya will finish their battle from the SS arc.

Acalia
February 03, 2007, 05:30 AM
well... Espada are just.. freakin sick
No matter how strong Chad got.. he just ALWAYS loses


...yeah...and...thats quite pitiful, isn't it?

I have a problem now. The individual fights have ended, and i have noo, but absolutely, no idea what will Kubo serve us... I hope he will diversify the plot....

Hitsugaya_333
February 03, 2007, 05:57 AM
well... Espada are just.. freakin sick
No matter how strong Chad got.. he just ALWAYS loses


...yeah...and...thats quite pitiful, isn't it?

I have a problem now. The individual fights have ended, and i have noo, but absolutely, no idea what will Kubo serve us... I hope he will diversify the plot....


He's trying to make people think this arc isn't the SS arc all over again.

Raijatsu
February 03, 2007, 09:53 AM
I think Gantzenbein saved him or he's badly wounded and tries to strike again....
something like that

mars0103
February 03, 2007, 11:30 AM
i agree that chad will be rescued be i think that it will be some one unexpected. One of the captins of the gotoi 13. I think it could be the 8th captain (the one with the pinkish coat over the captains coat). Remember in the SS arc he saved chad on a tecicality in the law to see if he had any infomation on the aizen's (fake) murder

Jack Van Burace
February 03, 2007, 12:50 PM
But Noitre isn't the kind of person/hollow to understand even the utility of the 'invazores'(ryokas). I doubt that HE would have any interest in keeping Sado alive. And doubt Kubo will let one of his main charachters be 'eaten' just like that. So I believe there will be a fight still.

"But they're worlds apart in power levels". Well, not necessarily. I was thinking, Noitre's body isn't made of Hierro, because iron isn't foldable like that. I wouldn't be surprised if Noitre's skill is in fact 'Acero', which is spanish for 'steel'. 'Acero' would be a nice addition to the vocabulary, because Kubo likes to play with words, and it resembles very much Cero (Zero). And of course, it's meaning would be a good followup to the Hierro (Iron). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but Steel seems to be more resilient and yet more foldable than iron, isn't it? Chad's problem would rely on dealing with this skill, finding a way around it to injure Noitre, rather than yet another upgrade in a row.

Vegetoacs
February 03, 2007, 05:26 PM
Indeed, Chad certainly is a bit up the creek without a paddle here.

He put his full power into one attack to try and end things quickly, but failed with a direct hit. The subtext is what's interesting. "Espada, Chad's fists cannot reach him" Perhaps this is more an indication that Noitoria blocked and simply made it seem as though he was hit.

However, the first thing Noitoria said gives the impression that as previously stated, the chamber they are in is indeed the end. He staes that Chad is the "First one here", which gives the impression that Noitoria was despatched to prevent, or at least impede (depending on his rank of course), the progress of Ichigo and Co.

Perhaps they thought Ichigo would be the first to reach Noitoria, and wanted him to collect more data. This leads me to my prediction.

I believe as widely stated, Gatenbein did most likely take the attack directed at Chad. Chad will most likely step back into defense, given that the right arm of the giant is currently his more powerful arm for soley defense, and Noitoria might say things insulting him. We might see some SS flashbacks, but I do believe this next chapter will end with ichigo reaching the end, finally to fight with Chad back-to-back.

Chad didnt possess the power to fight alongside ichigo on par with him during SS. While Ichigo is probably still substantially more powerful than Chad, he's still learning to use his Vizard powers. This probably puts them on par, and would make sense story wise. If Chad simply falls here easily, I will be sorely disappointed with Tite.

I would still maintain if they do indeed engage Noitoria in combat, I cant help but feel he'll but stopped at some point, given that Aizen's orders were to let them continue along. The primary purpose of Aizen letting them continue is to allow him to gather data on Ichigo, who posesses the key to the vast power increases afforded by hollow powers.

Engaging them within varying levels of enemies is sort of like testing the water for how hot or cold the temprature is before you step in. Another purpose is acheived by putting Ichigo and Co in danger. It will inadvertantly force Inoue to hurry to "destroy" the Hogyouku, and thus probably release it to it's full capacity.

Anyway, I guess we'll see, and hopefully no more fake spoilers next week eh? :D

ANBU4U
February 03, 2007, 11:00 PM
I still think Noitora is yet to release but there is a chance it will be in the next chapter, I believe the huge scythe isn't his release because for two reasons
1- Espadas don't start out thier fight in a released state...not even ex espadas did that
2- The released form changes the appearance of an Espada showing his/her true form rather than just giving them a huge weapon


I know that, but maybe there are exceptions that we don't know about yet. And maybe, Noitora already released because he's extremely bloodthirsty, or Aizen ordered him to.


It seems more likely the he just pwned Chad.

Hitsugaya_333
February 03, 2007, 11:39 PM
It seems more likely the he just pwned Chad.
I hope that isn't the case here.

Silhouette
February 05, 2007, 03:04 AM
Chad won't be slapped around. Noitora's eyes will widen in surprise and that smirk will be wiped off his face once he sees the Sado shield's awesomeness

Hitsugaya_333
February 05, 2007, 03:32 AM
Chad won't be slapped around. Noitora's eyes will widen in surprise and that smirk will be wiped off his face once he sees the Sado shield's awesomeness
It really could go either way because Arrancar and Chad, with his hollow-like powers, are at their strongest in HM.

Omi
February 05, 2007, 07:39 AM
I see Sado's powers going up another notch in this coming chapter. probably a breast plate or his legs go armored or hollowfiled. At the end of the day his power should be similar to or equivalent to one of those vetros or whatever the human like menos are called.

ZomzLeviathan
February 05, 2007, 02:13 PM
I was already both pleased and disappointed with Chad's left arm, mostly because it was a "this is my true power...no THIS is my true power" type situation. Still, it looked cool as Hell.

However, I'll really think it sucks if Chad gets another upgrade any time soon. I believe Noitora's presence is to represent the power gap between ex-Espada and Espada. I think Noitora struck Chad, but on his shield arm, slicing it and causing the blood splatter, but not completely severing it or doing damage to the rest of his body. Noitora will comment on how it's an okay defense, but won't hold up against him. Then, before he gets ready to unleash against a wide-eyed Chad, the Exequias will show up to despatch Gantenbein, and the scene will switch, leaving everyone to wonder on the fate of Chad (myself believing he'll be captured and taken to Orihime under Aizen's watchful gaze).

cielorossas
February 07, 2007, 08:36 PM
i think chad will die in the next chapter only to come back in the end fully realizing his hollow potential.

i think that letting chad lose would be too repetitive so killing him would probably surprise everyone. hahaha

Killmnky7
February 07, 2007, 10:46 PM
OMFG Kaien. That was the biggest shoker eva. Now i dont even give a damn about ol' wats his chad

mugen
February 07, 2007, 10:49 PM
well it seems i was right at least for rukia..
she didn't fight an ex-sword :jbya
but i wonder how numero 9 will look like when he releases his zanpaktou?
like his old release or a hollow release?
more like a shingami one cuz if you remember Tite never showed us Kaien's release :oh

Killmnky7
February 07, 2007, 11:01 PM
sadly i just realized it might not be KAien(i hope it is though)
the guys name is Arronio Alulueri.
That was a frikin great twist.
gotta give Kubo his props.

mugen
February 07, 2007, 11:07 PM
well most likely there's a connection to why they do look alike and the fact that he doesn't seem to have a mask maybe he's not arrancar and he's just shinigami with hollow side :oh
but he's an espada so i don't know and he's numero 9 making him kinda weak :darn
i mean Ichigo was beating the **** out of #10 without going hollow until Ichigo's hollow just immobilized Ichigo...
so but then again that was Ichigo and unless Rukia has bankai she'll get beat up by her senpai :p

Hitsugaya_333
February 07, 2007, 11:22 PM
well it seems i was right at least for rukia..
she didn't fight an ex-sword :jbya
but i wonder how numero 9 will look like when he releases his zanpaktou?
like his old release or a hollow release?
more like a shingami one cuz if you remember Tite never showed us Kaien's release :oh
Check out the Nejibana section here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaien_Shiba#Nejibana

mugen
February 07, 2007, 11:25 PM
what for?
if you are talking about his zanpaktou then it's not cannon cuz that was in the video game :p
not in the manga. and it says their like i did Tite never showed his zanpaktou's release cuz it got destoyed :crying

Silhouette
February 07, 2007, 11:36 PM
It's funny how the chapter is discussed more in the spoiler thread than when the chapter ia actually out

Freakin Noitora slicing through Sado's supa shield like it's butter. Chad met his doom I say, it's the shiled's final form...it doesn't get any more powerful than this. At least he is finished in a noble way hile fighting and without running away...This is why Chad is admirable, motivated by dedication to his comrades and regardless of his enimies' strength he bravely faces them
Farewell Sado...

I think that's Kaien alright surely not a shapeshifting hollow or one of Aizen's illusions

the look on Orihime's face after recieving the bad new is just so sad

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9594/oraq7.jpg

Guilt, sadness, anger...she knows she messed up by going to Aizen

SporkNinja
February 07, 2007, 11:39 PM
Yea, I think the Kaien look alike is either an Imitation aka body/face morphing skill maybe why he still retained his mask.

Or the hollow who controlled Kaien before he died got merge with Kaien making him some weird Vaizard/Arrancar. Like, Kaien being a vaizard being controlled by that hollow how possessed him before.

I just think he isn't Kaien.

Kinda expecting Chad to get thrashed. I wonder if Ichigo will make it in time, to save Chad if he isn't dead yet.

Hitsugaya_333
February 07, 2007, 11:42 PM
what for?
if you are talking about his zanpaktou then it's not cannon cuz that was in the video game :p
not in the manga. and it says their like i did Tite never showed his zanpaktou's release cuz it got destoyed :crying
I just wanted to show that. I didn't think it served much purpose.

Well, I wonder what his new zanpakuto is. I can't see it here: http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s212/Kakashi_Hatake3/?action=view&current=bleach-ch244-1617copy.png

Silhouette
February 07, 2007, 11:45 PM
I think it is Kaien himself after Aizen used the Hogyouko on him, the whole drama that took place in SS was just one of Aizen's illusions...Kaien was never killed/possesed/merged with a hollow in the first place. And the reason Aizen and Kaien played that role is simply because Aizen needed a messenger in HM, surely the menos didn't appear from no where when they saved Aizen, Gin and Tousen from SS.

There is no point of saving Chad now and there is no one around him

mugen
February 07, 2007, 11:51 PM
would that not mean that Kaien betrayed Soul Society as well :oh
or he's brainwashed :p

venicia777
February 07, 2007, 11:57 PM
Gin and Tousen followed Aizen. KAIEN- just refreshing.

I like the fact that the bleach world is getting murkier by the way. the greys are spreading :p

tochits
February 08, 2007, 12:02 AM
Sado goes down again... so much for the upgrades... I wasn't expecting him to win, though I think he could have at lasted a few more blows. And, about the Kaien look-alike, it'd be cool if he was actually Kaien...

destinator
February 08, 2007, 12:13 AM
I am not sure but I think Kaien in the GC game had a released weapon...hmpf but I am not sure anymore. (And even it was a release I dont know how

edit okay found something



In the video game for Gamecube, Bleach GC: Tasogare Ni Mamieru Shinigami, Kaien's initial release was represented as a trident with a light blue water-like adornment right below the prongs. Nejibana in its released form can utilize water-based attacks.

mugen
February 08, 2007, 12:30 AM
yeah but it's not cannon so does it count?
anyways #9 seems to know Rukia even though he's not really Kaein..
why?

jinsomnia
February 08, 2007, 12:33 AM
please sum1 tell me who is that guy with that mask opened - last page.

mugen
February 08, 2007, 12:40 AM
he's the one that was vice-captain of the 13th squad..
and Ganju and Kukaku older brother
this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaien_Shiba)

Reui
February 08, 2007, 02:10 AM
You know hes also the only Arrancar we've seen with a unbroken Mask and he removes it as casually as a Vaizard does. Maybe Kaien is a Vaizard and unlike Ichigo he wasnt able to gain control over his hollow and fled from Soul Society and Aizen offered to help him and using Aizen's newly found power over hollow transformation was able to help him. And he stays because he owes his life to Aizen.

Milliniar
February 08, 2007, 02:16 AM
Well the "Tea Party" theory is proven wrong now. Interesting chapter.
I don't think it is Kaien.....the hollow possibly, as for familiarity to Rukia maybe he recieved Kaien's memories or some morph set up by Aizen to meet Rukia.

Meno
February 08, 2007, 02:19 AM
Well, the hollow that killed Kaien was one of Aizen's failed experiments. So the connection is there for Kaien to actually be a part of Aizen's plans. I don't know if he turned into an Arrancarr, though, and I seriously doubt he's a Vaizard. We'll just have to see.

Silhouette
February 08, 2007, 02:33 AM
Now the translation is out, does Alulueri wear a mask because he can't stand the sun light? could it be a side effect from the Hogyouko experiment on Kaien?

and Chad isn't dead yet, Ichigo ain't gonna save him because he chooses to trust him...huh kinda too late I guess Ichigo, isn't it?!

RevenGz
February 08, 2007, 02:36 AM
z0mg z0mg awesome chapter no?

It would be pretty cool if chad died. . sure his a great character . . . but that goes to show that the story goes on and main characters do pass on . . gives it more of a surreal feeling. . if im using the right context here. .

Dragonzair
February 08, 2007, 03:25 AM
Oh my fucknig God.

That was....totally unexpected. O_O I mean, is that really Kaien? I thought people get reborn in Earth? But it's possible he did, but died early as a Hollow?


could it be a side effect from the Hogyouko experiment on Kaien?

That's possible...

Is that really him though?

Well, there goes the theory that Ichi-nii is Kaien. :wtf :wtf :wtf I can't stop spazzing. Best chapter in a while. Mostly for the Kaien bit, and Hime smacking Ulquiorra...YAAH NEW PAIRING! XD.

Anywho. Why is he afraid of sunlight? o.O CANT. WAIT.

Pollux
February 08, 2007, 03:59 AM
It's only just an idea but, about "Kaien" 's mask, I think it might be to protect himself from the sunlight but I also think it might be linked to the hollow which "absorbed" Kaien as in chapter 134, Ukitake says, about the hollow :
"It doesn't travel around. It stays in its lair and hunts within a certain area."
If A'Roniro is actually the result of the fusion of Kaien and the hollow, perhaps he retained some of the habits he had as a hollow (leaving its lair only for hunting).
Just a random thought.

sigmadx
February 08, 2007, 04:24 AM
Dunno if anyone else has brought this up yet but I just thought of something. So if the masked guy is #9, that means the seating table for the espada from chapter 244 doesnt' have an apparent logical order so Ulquiorra might not be Espada #1.

ZsychPrime
February 08, 2007, 04:42 AM
I don't think Chad should ever be expected to match Ichigo. Seeing as how his power was spawned by Ichigo's uncontrolled godhood.

Wonder if Chad will die. With this author one expects the unexpected from time to time.

Seeing as how all the Ichigo lot are alive. One wonders what they would become in death.
Ichigo... probably instant shinigami, if his body died.
Orihime.. probably a proto-shinigami.
Chad... Ichigo enhanced, instant super-Hollow.

Even if he doesn't die... unless his opponent chooses to save him like in the SS arc, he's going to have to transform into something more powerful, if he is to live(full Hollow form in all likelihood, just without the hole in the chest)

---

Wonder how far Orihime's time manipulation powers go. If she undoes the creation of the hogokyu, could the transformations done by it, and the destruction done by those creations be undone(like balefire in the Wheel of Time series)

---

Gotta agree with Ulquiorra, coming to a fight without intelligence on the enemy's strength... was an enormous risk.
(Cute Orihime slapping Ulquiorra)

---

Definitely a nice twist with Kaien, if not shocking the way, finding Ichigo's dad was a shinigami was shocking :)

In the past, I would have said that in the end, even if he's Kaien it doesn't matter, because Hollow are heartless, but we have too many examples otherwise now(unless the maggots with Ichigo's group suddenly pull a fast one on them)

One Bad Mo Fo
February 08, 2007, 05:15 AM
I'm glad the situation is finally deteriorating, we're finally getting down to it. The "become a demon Nino" line instills in me great hope.

Urazz
February 08, 2007, 06:07 AM
Considering how upset Orihime is maybe she'll send her fairies to heal Chad. That or we'll see Chad do some sort of hollow regeneration and be back in fighting condition. Of course this happens after Noitora leaves unless Kubo wants to start the fights with the espada already.

ahfei
February 08, 2007, 07:26 AM
how do u know that espada is no.9?

ttxdragon
February 08, 2007, 07:40 AM
Bleach is really picking up the pace huh?
at least people can't say the HM arc is an awefully long and boring preparation-arc anymore...

Sooo, Chad gets beaten... kinda was easy to predict... but i never thought chad should be enough to bring down an espada, not just yet... fair play here. Now the question is: will he get killed? I hope so. I have nothing against chad, but death would finally bring this series up to the level it should have since aizen revealed himself, death of main characters.
Aizen and the Espada are evil, period. So we should really know that there need to be maincharacter deaths.

Orihime... sad little orihime feels guilty although she knows she shouldn't. She would've done the same if one of their group would've been captured...
but she smacks ulquiorra, at least she has confidence :)
and ulquiorra seems to like it >.<

And finally, the Kaien scene...
now i don't know if rukia got shocked by the voice or because there is another person there, but i would say it's because of the voice...
I am on the side that thinks it's kaien, for more than one reason:
- The mask is no regular arrancar mask, it is more like a vaizards.
- Aizen using a technique to conceal the arrancar as kaien? unlikely, because he has as well as noitora defied aizen's order to stay put in their quarters.
- himself being a shapeshifter and/or mindreader? GF had those abilities already. Hypnosis-type? nah, that's why we have aizen.

it could be the hollow/kaien mixture, but i just don't like that possibility... because this espada has no zanpakutou from the pics we've seen up till now... and kaiens zanpakutou got absorbed by the hollow... but if he would be a hollow/kaien mixture he would gain some zanpakutou because that's what happens to a hollow going shinigami-enhanced...


and last but not least, i want it to be the real kaien...
think about.. rukia saying "sorry but i killed your older brother again" to kuukaku

ahfei, "noveno espada" == espada number nine

Silhouette
February 08, 2007, 09:08 AM
How is the death of a main character going to make the manga batter?
I find more interesting when other main characters can rise to the occasion...at least every once in a while instead of having one really strong hero (like almost all mangas do)
If death is what makes the story better and add twists, as some think, at least Sado's death could've been better than that...self sacrifice for others or at least put a hell of a fight, wouldn't you agree?

Sarmad
February 08, 2007, 09:33 AM
Bleach is really picking up the pace huh?
at least people can't say the HM arc is an awefully long and boring preparation-arc anymore...

Sooo, Chad gets beaten... kinda was easy to predict... but i never thought chad should be enough to bring down an espada, not just yet... fair play here. Now the question is: will he get killed? I hope so. I have nothing against chad, but death would finally bring this series up to the level it should have since aizen revealed himself, death of main characters.
Aizen and the Espada are evil, period. So we should really know that there need to be maincharacter deaths.

Orihime... sad little orihime feels guilty although she knows she shouldn't. She would've done the same if one of their group would've been captured...
but she smacks ulquiorra, at least she has confidence :)
and ulquiorra seems to like it >.<

And finally, the Kaien scene...
now i don't know if rukia got shocked by the voice or because there is another person there, but i would say it's because of the voice...
I am on the side that thinks it's kaien, for more than one reason:
- The mask is no regular arrancar mask, it is more like a vaizards.
- Aizen using a technique to conceal the arrancar as kaien? unlikely, because he has as well as noitora defied aizen's order to stay put in their quarters.
- himself being a shapeshifter and/or mindreader? GF had those abilities already. Hypnosis-type? nah, that's why we have aizen.

it could be the hollow/kaien mixture, but i just don't like that possibility... because this espada has no zanpakutou from the pics we've seen up till now... and kaiens zanpakutou got absorbed by the hollow... but if he would be a hollow/kaien mixture he would gain some zanpakutou because that's what happens to a hollow going shinigami-enhanced...


and last but not least, i want it to be the real kaien...
think about.. rukia saying "sorry but i killed your older brother again" to kuukaku

ahfei, "noveno espada" == espada number nine


I agree with most of what you said :beer , but i don't think that Chad's death would be good for the manga.

His story hasn't been fully revealed to us. And i believe that we've seen just a part of his powers so far (not that he'll shows us something new in the near future). (Further i doubt that Aizen is going to let him die just like that.) Hence it would be simply too soon for him to die or rather written out of the manga. :)

kingfencer
February 08, 2007, 10:34 AM
man... i can't beleive you guys think chad is death. I don't think he's dead. Maybe he is kept alive, or turns into some sort of hollow form. they won't eliminate him as a main character.

ttxdragon
February 08, 2007, 10:43 AM
on the prospect of chad dying:

i think it has many layers of making the story a tad bit deeper:
- we would know that even main characters aren't safe from dying
- aizen and the espada live up to the ruthless image they have
- chads death in a "meaningless" way would mean more to ichigo than a death chad can be proud of -- it's a different emotional setting.
- orihime may get even more desperate than she already is through the near-death state chad is in right now.


i can't think of a reason good enough other than tite planning something that they should let chad live.
they are not in soul society where they have a working system of quite fair laws, they are in Las Notches where they have a system like back with Ludwig XIV (i hope that was the right one xD).
Intruders get immediate death. And here in Las Noches they don't have the luck that they meet enemies that they can't defeat after there is a cause why they could be needed to clear up something.



that is the only thing i hate about most shounens... why can't they kill a mainchar even if there is such big evil?


PS. remember that death in the bleach universe has some funny consequences ;) let chads soul be sent to soul society because he got slashed by a zanpakutou and have him being trained in seireitei... gotta be fun, right?

gigantor21
February 08, 2007, 11:08 AM
on the prospect of chad dying:

i think it has many layers of making the story a tad bit deeper:
- we would know that even main characters aren't safe from dying
- aizen and the espada live up to the ruthless image they have
- chads death in a "meaningless" way would mean more to ichigo than a death chad can be proud of -- it's a different emotional setting.
- orihime may get even more desperate than she already is through the near-death state chad is in right now.


i can't think of a reason good enough other than tite planning something that they should let chad live.
they are not in soul society where they have a working system of quite fair laws, they are in Las Notches where they have a system like back with Ludwig XIV (i hope that was the right one xD).
Intruders get immediate death. And here in Las Noches they don't have the luck that they meet enemies that they can't defeat after there is a cause why they could be needed to clear up something.



that is the only thing i hate about most shounens... why can't they kill a mainchar even if there is such big evil?


PS. remember that death in the bleach universe has some funny consequences ;) let chads soul be sent to soul society because he got slashed by a zanpakutou and have him being trained in seireitei... gotta be fun, right?


I agree, but only if it's done well. To compare it to Naruto (since it was basically inevitable) Akatsuki's strength and ruthlessness became much more apparent when a main character ended up dying and was mocked for it.

But it's a damn thin line to cross. If main characters never die, then it feels like the author is coddling the fans by keeping their favorite characters alive to keep the series popular, or that they're too attached to the characters to move the story forward. But if a main character does die, then it could be just as easy to write it off as saying the author couldn't come up with any other way to make the story interesting, and copped out by offing someone.

Unless you're an incredible writer and can spin gold out of almost anything in the plot, no matter how contrived or generic, then it's not something that you can just do whenever. Kubo's a great storyteller, and I love Bleach, but even I wouldn't say that he's THAT good, especially having read through this arc.

So, I'd say that Chad dying would only work if Kubo planned well in advance for it to happen and already knows how he'll work it into the story as a whole. Otherwise, it'd be too cheap to accept if it did happen, which I doubt it will.

Silhouette
February 08, 2007, 11:11 AM
that is the only thing i hate about most shounens... why can't they kill a mainchar even if there is such big evil?


Pressure from fans may be! :p ...even though admittedly it's not working in my case >.>




PS. remember that death in the bleach universe has some funny consequences ;) let chads soul be sent to soul society because he got slashed by a zanpakutou and have him being trained in seireitei... gotta be fun, right?


This is the thing, Espadas don't use Zanbakuto like shinigamis, the katana is just a seal of thier own true form/power not an individual entity like shinigamies Zanpakuto (eg Zangetsu!) thus Chad won't be purified and sent to soul society
So what if someone is killed by a hollow? I don't exactly know but if a soul is attacked by a hollow then it may become a hollow
Chances are, if Chad is killed, Noitora is most likely to suck his spirit and say something like "ugh sh*t I shoud've expected it to taste bad for the weakass he was"
This is why I wanted Chad to put a good fight, if he turned hollow the impact of him fighting under Aizen would've stirred more emotions....a good friend's struggles and struggles to end up being a puppet in enemies hands and in case Chad dies...well it was such an admirable fight and noble way to die

ttxdragon
February 08, 2007, 11:16 AM
This is the thing, Espadas don't use Zanbakuto like shinigamis, the katana is just a seal of thier own true form/power not an individual entity like shinigamies Zanpakuto (eg Zangetsu!) thus Chad won't be purified and sent to soul society

we... don't know if they get sent to soul society or not, but i bet they will.
because the zanpakutous ability of sending peops to soul society doesn't come from the real "soul" of the zanpakutou but from the shinigami-part of the being.


*should get back to writing his bleach universe theory further, but wants to wait for some more stuff about hueco mundo at the same time >.>

mirai
February 08, 2007, 12:29 PM
Well the "Tea Party" theory is proven wrong now. Interesting chapter.
I don't think it is Kaien.....the hollow possibly, as for familiarity to Rukia maybe he recieved Kaien's memories or some morph set up by Aizen to meet Rukia.


Tea party theory?

sahugani
February 08, 2007, 12:31 PM
the "tea party" theory i'm assuming is the theory that the Espada were sitting in order of rank at the table when Aizen offered them tea

SporkNinja
February 08, 2007, 01:00 PM
I wonder how being a mortal that has not died yet, dieing in a spiritual realm , might bring about. If he got killed in the real world he would have separated from his body with the chain. (Which we have never seen since early bleach. Kubo doesn't tie up lose ends I've noticed from watching the ep 114 today, somehow Ichigo's og body (gigai) was hurt, when his shin soul got beaten by the 10th arrancar)

If Chad does die here, since he passed through that gate that turns you into a spirit or something to go to HM or SS. If he gets a Chain I wonder if Ichigo will have to Konsol him so he passes on or if he'll be hollowfied by Noitora.

Silhouette
February 08, 2007, 01:05 PM
we... don't know if they get sent to soul society or not, but i bet they will.
because the zanpakutous ability of sending peops to soul society doesn't come from the real "soul" of the zanpakutou but from the shinigami-part of the being.


well, can a shinigami send a spirit to SS without a Zanpakuto? I am thinking no, because Zanpakutos are the tools used for "soul burial". So even if Espadas have shinigami powers they still can't perform soul burial cuz it's not a real Zanpakuto what they have... as far as I know


If Chad does die here, since he passed through that gate that turns you into a spirit or something to go to HM or SS. If he gets a Chain I wonder if Ichigo will have to Konsol him so he passes on or if he'll be hollowfied by Noitora.
There was one example of a soul being attacked by hollows in HM and it was Orihime's brother....he turned into hollow

SporkNinja
February 08, 2007, 01:09 PM
We'll have to see if Noitora tries to eat him, if he's worth it. This chapter is amazing, so much plot.

ttxdragon
February 08, 2007, 01:18 PM
well, can a shinigami send a spirit to SS without a Zanpakuto? I am thinking no, because Zanpakutos are the tools used for "soul burial". So even if Espadas have shinigami powers they still can't perform soul burial cuz it's not a real Zanpakuto what they have... as far as I know

that's where the opinions right now differ... it is all theory on this part :/
i think the better the "hybridization" worked, the more shinigamipowers they have... and soul burial is definitely one...
and i believe that those are "real" zanpakutous, but with a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to releasing the zanpakutou right now (from those we have seen)...

it's too much theory to determine the 'reality' in this case... but i sure hope it would work as a real zanpakutou...

Marq
February 08, 2007, 08:00 PM
New to the forums, but been reading the bleach manga as well.

I only have a few words for this chapter... Holy crap. And it ended on such a good cliffhanger.

Hitsugaya_333
February 09, 2007, 02:27 AM
There is no point of saving Chad now and there is no one around him
Actually, everyone is rushing to him now, or at least Ichigo, according to my memory.[br]Posted on: February 09, 2007, 02:12:52 AM_________________________________________________People are saying that Kaien may have become a hollow by being eaten by that hollow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that when a hollow eats a soul, it absorbs the reiatsu and the soul is destroyed. This leads me to believe that Kaien was never eaten by that hollow, but somehow survived. I don't think that Espada #9 is fooling with Rukia because it seems like it would be too much of a letdown on Kubo's part.

ttxdragon
February 09, 2007, 02:30 AM
Actually, everyone is rushing to him now, or at least Ichigo, according to my memory.

he never said anything about rushing to chad... only believing him...
whether he runs to save chad or not is a different matter... although i don't think he would be remotely on the right path to save him when all path did split up into different areas and got a range big enough for those halls rooms...

concerning ishida and renji i won't say anything as we didn't get anything on information....

i won't say there isn't the possibility of somebody rushing to him, but i think it's highly unlikely ^^

Hitsugaya_333
February 09, 2007, 02:40 AM
he never said anything about rushing to chad... only believing him...
whether he runs to save chad or not is a different matter... although i don't think he would be remotely on the right path to save him when all path did split up into different areas and got a range big enough for those halls rooms...

concerning ishida and renji i won't say anything as we didn't get anything on information....

i won't say there isn't the possibility of somebody rushing to him, but i think it's highly unlikely ^^
Well, it looked like it to me.

I think they'll run into each other because Chad blew the wall down, leading to the daytime place. Rukia also got there, so why wouldn't everyone else?

Renji's sitting this arc out. Maybe Kubo's saving him for something special (him v. an Espada?).

DarkestDreamz
February 09, 2007, 02:59 AM
Well the "Tea Party" theory is proven wrong now. Interesting chapter.
I don't think it is Kaien.....the hollow possibly, as for familiarity to Rukia maybe he recieved Kaien's memories or some morph set up by Aizen to meet Rukia.


Actually the 'Tea Party' theory can still be correct, if you still assume Ulquiorra is Espada #1 then all you have to do is go in a zig-zag pattern which in then shows that Alulueri is actually Espada #9.

Hitsugaya_333
February 09, 2007, 03:21 AM
Actually the 'Tea Party' theory can still be correct, if you still assume Ulquiorra is Espada #1 then all you have to do is go in a zig-zag pattern which in then shows that Alulueri is actually Espada #9.

I like the idea, but then wouldn't Grimmjow be #2? He's not #2, but rather #6.

Sarmad
February 09, 2007, 04:45 AM
Isn't Grimmjow ranked on #7?

ZsychPrime
February 09, 2007, 06:30 AM
Chad's soul should get eaten, and then burst out. No mere arancar can match the true power hidden within Ichigo(or the small part of it given to Chad :))

... just being funny, although I wouldn't mind something like that happening. The souls eaten by Hollows have made appearances before.. and Kaien possibly overrode the Hollow that ate him(after a while)

Silhouette
February 09, 2007, 09:30 AM
Isn't Grimmjow ranked on #7?

Grimjow is Espada sexta and he has no. 6 tatood on his back
sorry off topic: I wonder if the lady espada will ever show us her tatoo :p

SporkNinja
February 09, 2007, 11:15 AM
Umm, about Kaien, I never recall the Hollowing actually eating(devouring) him. He was controlled by the hollow. Unless that translates somehow into english that if you are possessed you are being devoured.

The souls that have been hollowfied we have seen again, since when a Shinigami kills(defeats it) a hollow with their Zanpaktu their soul is purified(non hollow) is sent to either Hell or SS. For example if chad becomes a hollow he can still be saved and live the rest of his life in ss or in a gigai on earth but that would mean he would need to be a Shinigami, which would never happen.

I wonder, this hasn't been explained by us from Kubo. If an Arrancar meets its end by a shinigami is it sent to SS or Hell. If so, would they be a soul who automatically have the ability to access a zanpakto.

I may be wrong here, but I never figured Ulquiro being number 1, that would be dead obvious. That has nothing to do, to me I always thought the arrancar whose holes were further than their chest would mean more power. Ulq has his on his neck but it's not as far as Grimm's stomach hole. That's just my theory. With this though there would be a loop hole since eventually it would be on their head or genitals. Or offplaced somewhere weird like their hands..

adamantiumX
February 09, 2007, 11:39 AM
Reading 262, maybe chad has his share of the "hollow-within". Looking his left and right arm, maybe that is only a 50% transformation, what do you think?

Off topic question: what was chad's state going to HM? I mean do they need to undergo the same process as Ichigo is doing (from human to shinigami using the badge). How about urahara and yoruichi (especially when they fought first Ulquiorra and Yami in the human world)?

Sorry, I feel lost thinking about it...

out. =)

neko613
February 09, 2007, 11:59 AM
This is what I hope for:

Chad's inner hollow is fully awakened and goes berserk on Noitora, thus we get a fight from them.

Or....all 4 other people get beaten pretty bad like Chad, but somehow the Ichigo effect thingy that they never explained awakens everyone's power. Remember thats how Kubo explained how Orihime and Chad got thier powers from the start...contact with Ichigo. I'm going to bet that when Ichigo's full power awakens, and becomes a "demon", this will also affect the other guys, making them super powered.[br]Posted on: February 09, 2007, 11:57:15 AM_________________________________________________And if Chad isnt going to get up, he certainly won't be "eaten" or "left for dead".

I'm guessing the crews sent by the Pink Haired Espada will want to take him in and study him...probably for the Reiatsu research Aizen was asking him about.

ttxdragon
February 09, 2007, 12:41 PM
Off topic question: what was chad's state going to HM? I mean do they need to undergo the same process as Ichigo is doing (from human to shinigami using the badge). How about urahara and yoruichi (especially when they fought first Ulquiorra and Yami in the human world)?

chad, ishida, orihime: "atoms transformed into spirit particles" ---> they are there with their real bodies.
ichigo, rukia, renji, Yoruichi: all pure spiritparticles ---> only souls
urahara: i am nearly 100% sure it is the same as ichigo,rukia&co.... since he uses gigais he will most definitly be able to be there only in soul-form.

Syn
February 09, 2007, 02:24 PM
Phew I read it all :)
First, before I forget, on to the Kaien/hollow: the hollow back in ch135 I think stated that there was no way to save Kaien because he was already "fusing" with him. He wasn't devouring him, that was his special ability.
I really believe that it is Kaien [+ the hollow from back then]. There are many pointers:
-The chapter's title! Unblendable, meaning can't be mixed [roughly]. Kaien+hollow, someone?
-the fact that he dislike the light: it was subtle, but it was there; the hollow only hunted at night, waiting in a lair during the day time.
-his speech pattern: as the translators noticed, he has a weird way of speaking, as if two personnalities were clashing
-it doesn't look that he wants to fight with Rukia, rather talk with her
-he was specifically looking out for her: he appeared in her back, and asked her to follow him. For that, he didn't stay in his palace as Aizen asked him [and all the other Espadas].
-if he was a shape-shifter: he really didn't need that to get rid of Rukia. And why Kaien? She didn't think about him [unlike when GF took Ichigo's mother shape, because Ichigo was focused on it so badly], and if it is what she wants to see [as I saw it on some other forums], why Kaien? I believe she would have seen Chad, Inoue, Ichigo, but not Kaien, because Kaien's wound was healed.
-on the mask subject: it can be to hide himself amongst the Espadas [them not knowing that he isn't an Arrancar], the reiatsu between a Vizard/Arrancar/shinigami fused with a hollow being similar enough to not be detected. Or it can be simply because he can't stand the light, or a mix of the two
Beside that, if it is Kaien, the possibilities for Bleach and Kubo are really really numerous; from explaining what we craved for [knowing the cycle of life and death in Bleach] to possible treason or spy, not to mention the impact on Rukia and Ichigo [I mean this guy just looks like him!]. If it is a simple shape-shifter, it will be meh, uninteresting.

About Chad: he is not dead [yet]. Knowing Noitora, it will depend on if he'll kill him on spot or let him die slowly, judging him uninteresting.

On the subject of Inoue: I liked her in this chapter because for the first time since... a long time ago, she cared about someone else than Ichigo, and it's refreshing to see her old self again :) however, she's breaking slowly, and that's what Aizen wants, undoubtely.

SporkNinja
February 09, 2007, 04:41 PM
Wow, that Title name, Unblendable, is just enough to convince me that is Kaien. Also, from what we know of Kaien he would not have fled to Aizen's side when his creation killed his wife and possessed him unless Aizen or something (The hollow) had him by the balls.

I didn't pickup on the of his own dialouge clashing. Could be that scanlation I read. Concerning dailogue it must be the hollow, since Kaien would be like what's up.

Syn
February 09, 2007, 04:45 PM
It wasn't stated on the scanlation, but rather on the forums by several translators :)

Hitsugaya_333
February 09, 2007, 07:08 PM
Isn't Grimmjow ranked on #7?
Nope, 6. I'm positive of that, it's no theory. You can see it here if you'd like to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimmjow_Jaggerjack

deathmoon
February 09, 2007, 07:31 PM
Ya....
Chad now is bleeding again like he fought shinigami when they enter soul society...
I think Chad is not powerful as Ichigo and maybe he will rescue by other...

Jack Van Burace
February 09, 2007, 08:06 PM
I think that the title is 'Unblendeable' because Chad's reiatsu disappearance couldn't be unnoticed. And it is sort of a sarcasm that kubo puts a vilain looking like one of the good guys (even if deceased), sort of blending in, in the chapter called exactly 'unblendeable'.

SporkNinja
February 09, 2007, 08:13 PM
I don't think unbendable for a title has anything to do with Chad. Chad's scene is over and didn't end on a cliffhanger. Aaron'iro stated him and the sun are like oil and water. Don't mix. May be giving clues to Rukia. Like how he is the hollow that made her kill him.

fremeer
February 10, 2007, 03:49 AM
Pretty cool chapter so kaien is back and chad got owned again. btw check out the new www.vgcats.com comic its about bleach

Jack Van Burace
February 10, 2007, 02:12 PM
Aaron'iro stated him and the sun are like oil and water.

Did he really say that?! Man, I missed it... O_O Ok, then that's a very likely explanation then! ^^

Syn
February 10, 2007, 05:39 PM
Where the hell did you read that? He just stated that for the longest time, he hasn't "been very good with that whole light of the sun thing" [just like the hollow who fused with Kaien was, actually].

SporkNinja
February 10, 2007, 06:11 PM
I got that from a lesser scanlation. Now looking at M7 and the translations, and wasn't there. Still it gets the point across that he doesn't blend in with light, or likes it.

mars0103
February 11, 2007, 07:43 AM
right with this upset of the new arracar looking like shiba i went to think and came up this that he could be apart of ichigos soul. due to there where to souls at the time when rukia killed shiba the souls did an uneven spilt one went to earth (ichigo) and the other went to THAT PLACE now (shiba) rubish theory i had to much time on my hand.

Abumoney
February 11, 2007, 11:50 AM
I hated the fact that chad had only 1 arm to attack with. I feel much better now that he can use a second hand. Do you think Renji has any new thing? I don't mind about Rukia because we only know 1 attack from her.

Syn
February 11, 2007, 02:01 PM
I don't mind about Rukia because we only know 1 attack from her.

Since when? Rukia has two attacks with her shikai last time I checked.

Silhouette
February 11, 2007, 04:47 PM
I really believe that it is Kaien [+ the hollow from back then]. There are many pointers:
-The chapter's title! Unblendable, meaning can't be mixed [roughly]. Kaien+hollow, someone?
-the fact that he dislike the light: it was subtle, but it was there; the hollow only hunted at night, waiting in a lair during the day time.
-his speech pattern: as the translators noticed, he has a weird way of speaking, as if two personnalities were clashing
-it doesn't look that he wants to fight with Rukia, rather talk with her
-he was specifically looking out for her: he appeared in her back, and asked her to follow him. For that, he didn't stay in his palace as Aizen asked him [and all the other Espadas].
-if he was a shape-shifter: he really didn't need that to get rid of Rukia. And why Kaien? She didn't think about him [unlike when GF took Ichigo's mother shape, because Ichigo was focused on it so badly], and if it is what she wants to see [as I saw it on some other forums], why Kaien? I believe she would have seen Chad, Inoue, Ichigo, but not Kaien, because Kaien's wound was healed.
-on the mask subject: it can be to hide himself amongst the Espadas [them not knowing that he isn't an Arrancar], the reiatsu between a Vizard/Arrancar/shinigami fused with a hollow being similar enough to not be detected. Or it can be simply because he can't stand the light, or a mix of the two
Beside that, if it is Kaien, the possibilities for Bleach and Kubo are really really numerous; from explaining what we craved for [knowing the cycle of life and death in Bleach] to possible treason or spy, not to mention the impact on Rukia and Ichigo [I mean this guy just looks like him!]. If it is a simple shape-shifter, it will be meh, uninteresting.


Can't argue with that!
The observation on the speech patternt and title is very interesting, I used to think it's Kaien only but now I am convinced it's a mix of Kaien and the night hollow ( what I call the fusing hollow).
After all it was Aizen who engineered the night hollow and may be he saved him with one of his illusions and experimented on Kaien/hollow more with the hogyouku...I feel even more sorry for Kaien now :(

sahugani
February 11, 2007, 05:08 PM
its a good thing silhouette quoted Syn or i may have missed it by not going back a page. I always love it when people come up with a theory and back it by actual analysis based on truths and logical threads of thought. I especially love how you used the fact that Rukia's guilt over Kaien was resolved to bury the shapeshifter idea. Though i don't believe that this Kaien is the sum of himself and the hollow that took over him, you presented that arguement beautifully as well.

Big applause for Syn (damn for some reason i can't access the extra smileys right now)

Its my personal theory that this Kaien is a hollow-dominant vaizard (a vaizard who unlike the ones we've met so far, has let his inner hollow take control). while i have not completely worked out a theory on how this occurred, i can see why Kubo would do it. At some point Ichigo will come face to face with Kaien and it will be a turning point in his personal battle with his own inner hollow. after meeting someone like him who has lost to his inner hollow (and is also very symbolically linked to him through appearance) Ichigo will unlock the ability to access his hollowization for an extended period as he refuses to let himself become like Kaien

Syn
February 11, 2007, 08:16 PM
Interesting thought, sahugani! I like it a lot, indeed :)
Hopefully, we'll see soon now what's the mystery behind that Kaien fused with hollow/Arrancar/Vaizard/shape-shifter thing soon enough [I saw so many crazy theories now XD].
A Vaizard who would have lost to his hollow should be a very interesting meeting for Ichigo. I really wonder how all of this will turn now.
The fact that Aizen was the one who modified the hollow that took over Kaien, and that now we see him back is rather interesting. How could he managed to convince Kaien to join him, since it was because of him that his wife was killed? There is no way [and that bugged me], unless it was the hollow who took over Kaien, and Kaien had no choice but to comply.

Silhouette
February 12, 2007, 01:42 AM
Its my personal theory that this Kaien is a hollow-dominant vaizard (a vaizard who unlike the ones we've met so far, has let his inner hollow take control). while i have not completely worked out a theory on how this occurred, i can see why Kubo would do it. At some point Ichigo will come face to face with Kaien and it will be a turning point in his personal battle with his own inner hollow. after meeting someone like him who has lost to his inner hollow (and is also very symbolically linked to him through appearance) Ichigo will unlock the ability to access his hollowization for an extended period as he refuses to let himself become like Kaien

It's a pretty good theory but there are holes in it
If Kain was a hollow-dominant visored, wouldn't his physical appearance change? I mean hollow Ichigo told him that once he becomes in control of the shinigami's inner world, the body takes the form of a hollow (like exactly hat happened before Ichigo regained control). Unless Aizen captured the hollow-dominant visored and proceeded with his experiments on him making him appear more human-like just like the rest of the Espadas. However, that doesn't explain why Kaien speaks in a two-personality way. If Kaien is hollow-dominant visored then it should be his hollow talking.

It's just much easier to assume the hollow fused with Kaien thus retaining some of Kain's traits (i.e way of talking and face!). And it will also explain why Kain is helping Aizen since it isn't Kaien as individual but a fusion of him with the night hollow. Not to mention why Espada 9 can't stand the sun light.
I think it will have much more impact if Kaien -once thought rested in peace- is still suffering from Aizern's devilish acts. To me this would be just as sad as to what happened to that little girl (Nina) from FMA when her father fused her with her dog :crying and it will cause Rukia a great deal of grief...poor poor Rukia :-(

sahugani
February 12, 2007, 02:00 AM
well you got a point but i think there are a few issues within that that should be taken on a individual case basis. i dont think that ichigo's hollow transformation that time should be taken out of context. when the hollow takes control against Byakuya and Hiyori, his body doesn't change form because a highly intelligent hollow is in control (as Ishida said, more intelligent hollows make more humanoid arrancar so i think the same applies to vaizard). the case of when Ichigo was subduing his hollow in his inner world is a different situation. at that point, neither party was in control of the body as the two parts of his personality faught inside of him. we've seen how manipulative and intelligent his hollow is, so did it really look like his hollow was taking over? his hollow enjoys using zangetsu too much and that alone should be proof that his hollow was not in control there. at that point, raw hollow power was being released and it was running rampant without a mind to guide it. i think that Kaien's case should be compared not to that fight but to the Byakuya fight only his inner hollow's personality is not as thrill-seeking

ninetailfox
February 13, 2007, 08:29 AM
A decend chapter. Didnt have major development. the scanlation i had have the espada fight rukia saying something in latin. Can someone tell me whats hes saying?
Thanx

destinator
February 13, 2007, 08:43 AM
A decend chapter. Didnt have major development. the scanlation i had have the espada fight rukia saying something in latin. Can someone tell me whats hes saying?
Thanx

Ehhhh the only thing he said in latin is that he is the ninth espada+his name ^^

Jack Van Burace
February 13, 2007, 05:27 PM
well you got a point but i think there are a few issues within that that should be taken on a individual case basis. i dont think that ichigo's hollow transformation that time should be taken out of context. when the hollow takes control against Byakuya and Hiyori, his body doesn't change form because a highly intelligent hollow is in control (as Ishida said, more intelligent hollows make more humanoid arrancar so i think the same applies to vaizard). the case of when Ichigo was subduing his hollow in his inner world is a different situation. at that point, neither party was in control of the body as the two parts of his personality faught inside of him. we've seen how manipulative and intelligent his hollow is, so did it really look like his hollow was taking over? his hollow enjoys using zangetsu too much and that alone should be proof that his hollow was not in control there. at that point, raw hollow power was being released and it was running rampant without a mind to guide it. i think that Kaien's case should be compared not to that fight but to the Byakuya fight only his inner hollow's personality is not as thrill-seeking


Man, you're right about him not having a hole in his neck: I've finnally checked!^^ So you're right, he might just aswell be a vizored. And helping your theory, why not let him be really a shinigami dominant actually? It wouldn't hurt to have a vizored against the shinigami, since the change is forbidden by them. He just wouldn't be very friendly with the remaining Espadas, since he's still shinigami in his soul, but just like Tousen, Gin and Aizen, just fighting on another side. I don't see why he had to be hollow-dominant to confirm your theory. In fact, I've just adopted your idea as the most probable thing to happen: that he is Kaien, conscious of himself, just using another name to be among the Espadas unnoticed, and choosing to fight against Soul Society for his own will. How about that??

Hitsugaya_333
February 13, 2007, 07:23 PM
The hole doesn't have to be in the neck; Grimmjow's is in his stomach. He may be an arrancar.

SporkNinja
February 13, 2007, 07:37 PM
He is more than likely a Vizored, he has a mask he can remove,he has no hole we can see. not a broken mask, the other espada has all had some piece of their mask still on them and a hole. Noitora has one on his forehead. Someone pointed out he might not have one, but he does.

Hitsugaya_333
February 13, 2007, 07:47 PM
He is more than likely a Vizored, he has a mask he can remove,he has no hole we can see. not a broken mask, the other espada has all had some piece of their mask still on them and a hole. Noitora has one on his forehead. Someone pointed out he might not have one, but he does.
Yeah, but Vaizard put their mask on to go into hollow mode, as we have seen from all Vaizard. He wouldn't be in hollow mode for days, weeks, maybe even months. So, the way I see it, there is no way that he is a Vaizrd, though he may have been one, and the hollow one, and then that hollow took its mask off (most likely with help from the Hougyouku), turning into an arrancar.

Jack Van Burace
February 13, 2007, 08:41 PM
Wait, I just got something: look back some chapters, when we see Aaroniro's shadow behind someone. I guess it's when Wonderwice was created, someone has just tipped me that Aaroniro had a hole back then. So, I suppose his hole's abcence might be part of some sort of ilusional powers. Man, changing sides so often! But whatever, keeping the same opinion no matter what happens is far worse than going back and forth! xD

Anyways, I guess that some guy's opinion might be the correct answer now, the guy who remembered that the hollow that killed Kaien was photofobic too. I bet that Aaroniro is him, which would have somehow survived. This or Kubo really messed up, and forgot he had drawn Aaroniro with a hole in his chest already!

Hitsugaya_333
February 13, 2007, 10:15 PM
Wait, I just got something: look back some chapters, when we see Aaroniro's shadow behind someone. I guess it's when Wonderwice was created, someone has just tipped me that Aaroniro had a hole back then. So, I suppose his hole's abcence might be part of some sort of ilusional powers. Man, changing sides so often! But whatever, keeping the same opinion no matter what happens is far worse than going back and forth! xD

Anyways, I guess that some guy's opinion might be the correct answer now, the guy who remembered that the hollow that killed Kaien was photofobic too. I bet that Aaroniro is him, which would have somehow survived. This or Kubo really messed up, and forgot he had drawn Aaroniro with a hole in his chest already!
What chapter was that?

I think Kubo is too smart for that.

Amatersu
February 14, 2007, 04:47 AM
Or since Aizen re-created that hollow that took control of people and then did transformation on it and got lucky that it was Espada level.