Unknown Zanpakutou Abilities

[Hystzen]

i wana see shunsui not coz i like the guy..just the way ukitake worded that he should not use it where other people can see it..this either means it embarrassing or it a one trick pony n just seeing it once means you can figure out how to dodge it.

i wana see yamma it prob cause a supernova to destroy the entire world while he stands there laughing the crazy old koot

[ryanzokuken]

You need to read back to Shinji V Aizen, where his bankai was shown o_o

as soon as i read the poll and first post, i KNEW somebody was going to say this. :p

technically, it wasn't a translation error. even the raw says bankai. but it has to be a mistake on Kubo's part. Shinji didn't say "bankai", who the hell shows bankai before shikai, AND there's no way that little trick was his big, bad bankai.

don't get me wrong, it's a great shikai to have, IF you don't go blabbering about it. granted, it helps to tell them the first part, since it is only an illusion, after all. you want them to think some things are backwards so that they don't defend when you attack (because really you're just attacking like normal, they only think it's reversed), but after Shinji said the last bit, it was like "...wait, so nothing is reversed? you can't reverse all those things without reversing some of the reverses...."

lol

anyways, i voted for Aizen's. there are several characters on the list that i like more and think are cooler, but i'm really interested to see how KS gets built upon/improved. like...Aizen's illusions can become reality after a pre-determined amount of time?
or he can turn everything within the radius of his own five senses into some illusionary little dream world/battle scape?

i don't know, but it will be an "omfg wtf" Inception-esque couple of chapters whenever he first reveals it.

[freshseth83]

Shunsui is my favorite character in the manga, so yeah it's a bet that I wanna see his bankai. But also, Juushiro and Unohana's. She's been said to be strong, good at Kendo- Maybe something along the lines of what Kenpachi did? Except stronger? Kubo said in the interviews from the databooks that 'her true face' would be seen soon. Also from an interview a month or so back, he said he omitted Shunsui's bankai to give readers the thought of 'what if' he did use it would he be as strong as Aizen, or able to defeat him. That couple with the comments made by Juushiro, I'm betting it's gotta be something crazy. Katen Kyokotsu was pretty unique in my opinion, games, shadows, colors, cliff demons? haha, I loved it. Juushiro has to have something more to absorbing energy attacks like ceros, he's one of my favs too. Also looking forward to Isshin showing off his 'GT' more. I'm sure it's like Ichigo's but it has to be different. What lies ahead for him? We'll find out soon I'm sure. Urahara is someone else as well as Shinji, I'd like to see those guys full abilities as well. I'm hoping the Vizards can use Bankai AND mask together, and not just Ichigo, because so far that's all weve seen, I donno if that's the case but I hope not.

[ShootToKill]

I don't know whether a topic like this already exists, but I thought it would be interesting to hear some thoughts about the Bankais we are yet to see. These include those belonging to:

Aizen Sosuke
Hirako Shinji
Kyoraku Shunsui
Ukitake Juushiro
Aikawa Love
Otoribashi Rujoro
Yamamoto Genryuusai
Urahara Kisuke

In general, the Shikai appears to be a prelude to the nature of the Bankai, with Soifon being the obvious exception which comes to mind.

For some, Aizen primarily, I'm not sure how the Bankai could improve on the Shikai given the nature of its abilities - my only guess is that Aizen was somewhat limited in the illusions he was able to create in Shikai, despite being enough to achieve his goals. His Bankai could allow for more complex illusions, ones which would be beyond the abilities of his Shikai.

Yama I would imagine would just have even more ridiculously overpowered fire attacks :D

For people like Rose and Ukitake, who I'm sure have a lot more to their Shikai than they've shown, it's harder to tell.

Anyway, feel free to post your thoughts :D

[cracker]

Was Sofion really an exception, I don't think so. I think her bankai was meant to be a OHK (one hit kill) if her reiastu was greater than or equal to her opponent. It failed to deliver this effect because when used on Barragan (who was likely a good deal stronger than Soifon, along with his abilities) the reiastu difference cancelled it out.

I figured Aizen's bankai would likely be something similar to Tsukiyoma (Naruto), trapping his opponent in their minds where he could have absolute control of their mental reality. Whatever Kubo came up with it would have likely been broken has it concerns the bleachverse, I'm figuring thats why Aizen didn't go bankai in FKT that or for some reason going bankai dispels his shikai.

Yama's bankai will most likely be catastrophic. I'm thinking just going bankai will likely destroy miles and miles of, well pretty much anything and everything. Probably why he didn't go bankai in FKT, way too much collateral damage.

Urahara bankai has been hinted has being highly destructive and given the nature of his shikai I say thats a safe assumption. I'm figuring it mostly likely be very versatile as well.

Shunsui's bankai is probably something hax, possibly even encompasses a large area and isn't something suitable to use if allies are around.

I once saw in a game where Ukitake's bankai was a combination of the elements water and electricity on a large scale, thats pretty scary and the combination seems very destructive and efficient. I'd love to see it turn to be something like that. I'm sure that would make live up to someof his hype.

Love has a melee shikai with some elemental properties (fire), so I'm thinking something on the fire scale but much, much more tone down than Yama. So what would be most interesting is the design of its manifestation and how he uses it.

Shinji's will follow the same trend, trapping his opponent(s) in an isolated space where everything is fucked up. Everything is inverted, possibly with some other sense affecting abilities.

Rose is kinda hard. He had a whip with an explosive tip, not much to go on. I'm thinking he gets some costume change when he goes bankai. Maybe a large sword than go whip like Ivy from the Soul Caliber series. He'll still have explosions, far more powerful and destructive. I'm thinking it will be pretty versatile as well.

[eefrit]

Hmm, interesting question. The last couple of Bankais, Kubo threw a curveball on their abilities. But I'll give it a go.

Aizen's bankai I see being something akin to warping reality to a certain extent. Whatever illusion he makes will become real after a period of time. I can't think of anything else, he already makes perfect illusions in his shikai.

Yamamoto's bankai has to be something like his creating a personal star sized flame. Either that or his bankai is like that phoenix thing that tried to kill Rukia. That would be disappointing however.

Urahara... I don't know really, but I have a feeling it will change his clothing and there will be red stuff all over the battlefield in a mist like manner.

Shunsui's will probably be a circus tent type think that will up the games by 10.

Ukitake will probably have a giant mirror that reflects all and does some other things.

Love will most likely get two kanabos or summon a cactus forest for some reason.

Shinji is interesting. So many things can be done with this. But I am assuming it will reverse everything colors, mindset, even the damage that is done. Whenever he gets attacked, the damage will be reversed and will appear on the opponent. I have no clue other that those possibilities for him.

Rose, I don't know, maybe a giant guitar or something like that.

[kkck]

I don't think aizen's bankai would involve reality warping. It is far too hax, more so than his own shikai. No clue as to what it could be but I do think it will be something completely unrelated to illusions.

For love it is quite simply actually. I always pictured a maze even more massive than his own shikai. Perhaps enhanced fire abilities and larger spikes too.

For rose I imagine his bankai being the flower at the tip of his whip but instead of tiny probably 10 meters long. Not sure of what that would do though.

The tent thing is a good idea for shunsui. Some crazy demon circus would be awesome lol.

For urahara it has to be simply a extremely hax ability rather than a conventional weapon. Something which does not necessarily demand physical capacity.

For shinji I imagine something completely unrelated to his shikai. I just can't imagine a better illusion other than what aizen had.

I always imagined yamamoto's bankai as a huge ball of fire over which he has control. Not much to add on that, its simply more fire.

[Miyagi]

Kubo is very creative when it comes to new abilities but I have a couple of ideas. :D

Aizen's shikai creates illusions out of thin air that act as a decoy. Aizen's bankai will be able to create tangible clones of himself that can actually fight while Aizen sits back and watches. He will also be able to create clones of other people and mimic their abilities.

Shinji's bankai will not only reverse directions but also make everything you see spin in 3D. You'll feel dizzy. lol

Shunsui's bankai will be a huge mirror which traps you in your worst nightmares when you look at it. You'll be forced to play a deadly game to escape.

Ukitake's bankai will create an aura of protection which dissipates anything that is formed of energy.

Love's bankai will make his zanpakuto get even bigger and Love will be able to send countless number of burning bladed protrusions from his zanpakuto that explode upon contact with the target.

Rose's bankai will make his whip grow many branches and create a huge net-like structure that makes people become entangled in it.

Yamamoto's bankai will be a huge black sphere which absorbs and devours everything in the vicinity, similar to a black hole in space.

Urahara's bankai will be similar to Susanoo, it will both protect Urahara and attack his enemies in different ways such as with red rays that pierce these enemies and explode.

[Broken_Wing]

Was Sofion really an exception, I don't think so. I think her bankai was meant to be a OHK (one hit kill) if her reiastu was greater than or equal to her opponent. It failed to deliver this effect because when used on Barragan (who was likely a good deal stronger than Soifon, along with his abilities) the reiastu difference cancelled it out.

YES, most definitely the exception.

Soifons shikai is short-ranged, melee and meant to be used repeatedly in quick concession...taking advatage of her speed and agility, capable of covering the target in butterflys.

Her bankai is strictly long-range, basically once per use, slows her down to virtual stand still and becomes complicated with mechanical/moving parts.

Its undeniably the complete opposite to her shikai and wrecks her fighting style. Saying its one-hit kill capability is an unpgrade from her two-hit shikai, is like giving Lanza or Yammys

I'll have to discuss the other potential bankais later.

[Mayumura]

Aizen is not "unkown" , command is unknown but effect is - Mass Hypnosis.

[eefrit]

That is Aizen's shikai. His command is Shatter. He already used his shikai on everyone and he never said bankai so we do not know his shikai. Until he says bankai and has a two page spread, it is still unknown.

[Epic_Rider]

YES, most definitely the exception.

Soifons shikai is short-ranged, melee and meant to be used repeatedly in quick concession...taking advatage of her speed and agility, capable of covering the target in butterflys.

Her bankai is strictly long-range, basically once per use, slows her down to virtual stand still and becomes complicated with mechanical/moving parts.

Its undeniably the complete opposite to her shikai and wrecks her fighting style. Saying its one-hit kill capability is an unpgrade from her two-hit shikai, is like giving Lanza or Yammys

I'll have to discuss the other potential bankais later.

Well, at the most basic level, it's the same thing as her Shikai. Her Shikai is a clse range one hit K.O., while her Bankai is a long range one hit K.O.

And even if she says so, it doesn't really wreck her fighting style, it adds a new dimension to it. She was a close range fighter, but with Bankai she can attack long range. That increases the number of potential strategies she can use in combat.

[cracker]

YES, most definitely the exception.

Soifons shikai is short-ranged, melee and meant to be used repeatedly in quick concession...taking advatage of her speed and agility, capable of covering the target in butterflys.

Her bankai is strictly long-range, basically once per use, slows her down to virtual stand still and becomes complicated with mechanical/moving parts.

Its undeniably the complete opposite to her shikai and wrecks her fighting style. Saying its one-hit kill capability is an unpgrade from her two-hit shikai, is like giving Lanza or Yammys

I'll have to discuss the other potential bankais later.

Yeah theres all those difference, but simplified that bankai stems from the same place. Besides all those differences that you see has so polarizing I could infer differently, the range from the bankai could be seen as an upgrade (bulk is somewhat a downside) and what is more devastating than a nuke for assassination, something that annihilates everything in a localized area.

I believe it was meant to be an OHK, the episode where it was revealed in the anime was even titled "One Hit Kill, Soifon, Bankai!", yeah you can argue that that is only the anime and not the manga, but I believe it lends credence to the claim.

At any rate, apart from Ichigo. Remember how Byakuya said bankais where suppose to be huge and things that affected stuff on a large(r) scale? You could argue that the bankai could have been something that would have lent itself to her speed and agility, but honestly that doesn't make much sense since that would meant her zanpuktou abilities that were inherent in her blade before she even join the stealth core, would manifest as something ideal for that path through life.

She was just lucky that she shikai was so useful for the job.


Well, at the most basic level, it's the same thing as her Shikai. Her Shikai is a clse range one hit K.O., while her Bankai is a long range one hit K.O.

And even if she says so, it doesn't really wreck her fighting style, it adds a new dimension to it. She was a close range fighter, but with Bankai she can attack long range. That increases the number of potential strategies she can use in combat.

The shikai is two kills in the exact same place, to get the effect. Another than that, yeah I basically agree. Thats how I saw it.

[Mayumura]

That is Aizen's shikai. His command is Shatter. He already used his shikai on everyone and he never said bankai so we do not know his shikai. Until he says bankai and has a two page spread, it is still unknown.

Omg shikai is release, bankai is several times better release
If shikai is single hypnosis than bankai is mass hypnosis, use ur logic dude if you got one.

[eefrit]

Seriously? No need to go that far. The way you phrased your statement, it seems like you were talking about shikai. Also Aizen's shikai is already mass hypnosis, when he explained his abilities to Unohana he told her that whomever see him release will be under the spell. Which is why the whole Gotei 13 was under hypnosis.

[cracker]

The shikai can hypnotize multiple opponents (persons) at once, he alludes to this fact when he hynotized VCs

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-171-page-15.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-171-page-16.html

More than likely once you are able to see it, any and everyone will be caught in KS

[kkck]

Omg shikai is release, bankai is several times better release
If shikai is single hypnosis than bankai is mass hypnosis, use ur logic dude if you got one.

Shikai already uses mass hypnosis. That was a huge plot point, remember? Heck, when aizen explained his shikai there was a specific moment pointed out where he actually got all of the VCs under his illusion in one go.
[hr]
It'd be interesting if aizen's bankai was a tool which made it easier for him to get people under his illusion in the heat of battle. For example the requirement for the illusion not being for people to see it but instead to be cut by kyoka suigetsu.

[cracker]

@kkck

Against some opponents, like Yama for e.g going bankai and attacking them would be harder to catch them in the illusion this way (cutting) then simply looking at his zanpuktou.

[Mayumura]

Seriously? No need to go that far. The way you phrased your statement, it seems like you were talking about shikai. Also Aizen's shikai is already mass hypnosis, when he explained his abilities to Unohana he told her that whomever see him release will be under the spell. Which is why the whole Gotei 13 was under hypnosis.

Than bankai is OMG GLOBAL HYPNOSIS LOL!:p
I really cant imagine mass hypnosis x2, it seems like no sense for me.
Also Aizen lied in manga much, so why u think he told truth when he discover his ability to unohana?

[freshseth83]

What if Aizen can't use bankai? His shikai is broken enough as it is. I always wondered if ks had more to it, maybe he wasn't strong enough to master it so he sought out a different strength? I don't know, just something I thought up a while ago.

[Asclepius]

What if Aizen can't use bankai? His shikai is broken enough as it is. I always wondered if ks had more to it, maybe he wasn't strong enough to master it so he sought out a different strength? I don't know, just something I thought up a while ago.

It's possible. Maybe he made everyone think that he had bankai, that way he could grab the position of captain.
I know it's hard to believe, but every powered character has its flaw.

[cracker]

He initiated his shikai against Barragan without using a release command

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-384-page-9.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-384-page-10.html

Something supposedly only persons who have obtained bankai can do, Renji did it against Byakuya in SS although Renji's situation is somewhat different in that he didn't say anything at all except released his sword.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-140-page-19.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-140-page-20.html

Given Aizen's nature I find hard he didn't obtain bankai by some means or another. Even if he had to go about in a manner similar to Urahara and Ichigo. Face it, he's just power hunger and arrogant, skipping bankai for whatever reason just isn't him.

What is a mystery is why didn't he use it in FKT? Its a possibility that the ability Kubo came up with was just to broken for bleachverse and the editor(s) decided to scrap it, could have happened, seems kinda unlikely though...

[Asclepius]

He initiated his shikai against Barragan without using a release command

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-384-page-9.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-384-page-10.html

Something supposedly only persons who have obtained bankai can do, Renji did it against Byakuya in SS although Renji's situation is somewhat different in that he didn't say anything at all except released his sword.


Do you realize that the balloon looks different from the rest of the page on the first link? Why would Kubo draw that balloon like that with such simple words in it?
That seems like his release call for me. Of course, i can't say for sure cause we never saw it before to be sure.

Edit: what i mean is that even the info about the release could have been faked by Aizen and this could be the real release. It's so simple that no one would notice.
[hr]
Was there other time that Aizen supposed released his shikai besides that time in front of Unohana and Isane?
The balloon was also thick in that panel: http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-171-page-13.html

I know i can be wrong, but the only character that could say for sure is dead: Tousen.

[cracker]

Doesn't Kubo usually highlight the bubble when a zanpuktou name is called or released?

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-170-page-18.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-373-page-16.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-427-page-20.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-398-page-20.html

[Broken_Wing]

Well, at the most basic level, it's the same thing as her Shikai. Her Shikai is a clse range one hit K.O., while her Bankai is a long range one hit K.O.

And even if she says so, it doesn't really wreck her fighting style, it adds a new dimension to it. She was a close range fighter, but with Bankai she can attack long range. That increases the number of potential strategies she can use in combat.


Yeah theres all those difference, but simplified that bankai stems from the same place. Besides all those differences that you see has so polarizing I could infer differently, the range from the bankai could be seen as an upgrade (bulk is somewhat a downside) and what is more devastating than a nuke for assassination, something that annihilates everything in a localized area.



Well, see thats if you put it to the most basic level.

Bankai is a long range one hit K.O.

What difference is that to Ulquiorra's Lanza then...same properties no? So wouldnt you say despite aesthetic reasons Lanza would fit just as well for Soifons bankai?

Theres nothing there that indicates, oh yes that is Soifons bankai no doubt. Even from a visual standpoint without knowing what it does...despite it being attached to Soifon's arm you cant really imply how Soifon would effectively use it.

[Boris999]

I always imagined Yama's Bankai as some sort Phoenix manifestation.

Think about it, his shikai is in itself already posesses the most powerful offensive capabilities. Of course, I have no doubt that these will increase even further with Bankai; however it would be silly for a versatile fighter like Yama to have such a one trick pony Bankai.

It would be much cooler, in my opinion, to see a Bankai which combined the greatest attack in Bleachverse with an extremely powerful defence. Something which takes its inspiration from the legendary powers of the Phoenix. Now I'm not talking about rebirth after death, per say, for that would be waaay too hax even for someone like Yama. However a lesser version of that. Perhaps the ability to 'rebirth' parts of himself. For example, perhaps that is the reason he cared not for others healing his arm. Because he knew that in a desperate situation he would go Bankai and return it himself anyway.

[cracker]

Well, see thats if you put it to the most basic level.

Bankai is a long range one hit K.O.

What difference is that to Ulquiorra's Lanza then...same properties no? So wouldnt you say despite aesthetic reasons Lanza would fit just as well for Soifons bankai?

Theres nothing there that indicates, oh yes that is Soifons bankai no doubt. Even from a visual standpoint without knowing what it does...despite it being attached to Soifon's arm you cant really imply how Soifon would effectively use it.

Ok if you're going to be technical like that yeah I guess you could be right, I mean they both are crap as well and neither attack did anything really other than maybe lots of collateral damage lol

Aesthetically the nuke is far more badass though than an energy lance.

[Boris999]

The funny thing about a manga like this is that power levels will all have to go up a notch later. Probably a rather large notch. In all probability we will find out that a fair few of the senior captains could have taken Aizen and Yama could have stomped him. It's why Bankais remained unused. Perhaps one or two may have been inpractical to use, but I doubt all were. And I am sure we will get a half-baked reason as to why they did't use them. Hell, it might even be one that makes sense. The point is, however, that they will go up significantly.

[Gotenkss]

Whose pending Bankai you are dying to see?

I want to see Kenpachi's Bankai.
Already he is capable of defeating two captains....
Imagine the devastation he will do with Bankai

[shinsengumi]

I always imagined Yama's Bankai as some sort Phoenix manifestation.

Think about it, his shikai is in itself already posesses the most powerful offensive capabilities. Of course, I have no doubt that these will increase even further with Bankai; however it would be silly for a versatile fighter like Yama to have such a one trick pony Bankai.

It would be much cooler, in my opinion, to see a Bankai which combined the greatest attack in Bleachverse with an extremely powerful defence. Something which takes its inspiration from the legendary powers of the Phoenix. Now I'm not talking about rebirth after death, per say, for that would be waaay too hax even for someone like Yama. However a lesser version of that. Perhaps the ability to 'rebirth' parts of himself. For example, perhaps that is the reason he cared not for others healing his arm. Because he knew that in a desperate situation he would go Bankai and return it himself anyway.
its a good idea but i always expected him to pull the sun out of his ars (honestly)

[Tengou]

I always imagined Yama's Bankai as some sort Phoenix manifestation.

Think about it, his shikai is in itself already posesses the most powerful offensive capabilities. Of course, I have no doubt that these will increase even further with Bankai; however it would be silly for a versatile fighter like Yama to have such a one trick pony Bankai.

It would be much cooler, in my opinion, to see a Bankai which combined the greatest attack in Bleachverse with an extremely powerful defence. Something which takes its inspiration from the legendary powers of the Phoenix. Now I'm not talking about rebirth after death, per say, for that would be waaay too hax even for someone like Yama. However a lesser version of that. Perhaps the ability to 'rebirth' parts of himself. For example, perhaps that is the reason he cared not for others healing his arm. Because he knew that in a desperate situation he would go Bankai and return it himself anyway.

This phoenix manifestation you speak of, isn't that sort of what the Soukyoku is like? I actually did at one time consider the idea of the Soukyoku being (part of) Yamamoto's bankai, but that was just silly conjecture probably. Still, I wonder what's the truth about that thing. It seems to be capable of releasing like a zanpakuto. I wonder what kind of monster at one time commanded it...

Which leads me to another question. Would the Spirit King have a zanpakuto? :o

[g0dzax]

Which leads me to another question. Would the Spirit King have a zanpakuto?

Wow,now that's an interesting question.If the King is a humanoid form that has a Zanpakutou,then I'd imagine the Spirit King has becomed one with the Zanpakutou,kinda like Ichigo's Final Getsuga Tensho,when he became one with Zangetsu.The Spirit King would be merged with his Zanpakutou,essentialy becoming the Zanpakutou itself.


Ukitake's Bankai would be interesting to see,if in Shikai he's able to absorb powers with the swords,I'd imagine in Bankai he'd be able to absorb anything related to spirits without the use of the sword,practically working kinda like Isshida's Final Quincy Form he used against Mayuri.

[Smerten]

Whose pending Bankai you are dying to see?

I want to see Kenpachi's Bankai.
Already he is capable of defeating two captains....
Imagine the devastation he will do with Bankai

Kenpachi is not going to achieve Bankai. Ever. Ever. Evar. EVARRRR.

I don't understand why people keep going on about his Bankai. It is so extremely out of character. The unique thing about Kenpachi is that he owns without knowing or caring about his Zan's name. It's just pure brawn and fighting instinct. If you truly appreciate Kenpachi as a character, then you don't want him even to learn to control his Shikai's abilities, it would be called the rape of Kenpachi's character. I'd be too disgusted to put into words.


But anyways, I'm so curious to see everyones Bankai, but Urahara in particular. But, Kyoraku, Ukitake, Unohana and Yama are also high up on the list. Maybe Urahara's Bankai is one that has vampiric abilities? Manipulating and/or draining blood, healing/strengthening himself?Not exactly training material ;p

[kkck]

^Actually I noticed something interesting regarding kenpachi. Kubo made a decent job not showing the eye which he is supposed to keep covered with an eyepatch. Whats more, from what we could see nothing which resembled an eyepatch string could be seen. It seems like kenpachi is no longer even wearing an eyepatch for whatever reason. Perhaps he gave up on the eyepatch and his new power limitation is his shikai.... Of course in his base form he would still have as much power as a released espada but in turn shikai would still be a considerable boost. It even makes sense kenpachi would acquire shikai over the timeskip. It is far more than enough time for someone with his power for one thing. Whats more, when ichigo defeated him he was shown asking his sword its name and during the nnoitora fight he refered to his sword as a he... I think he should actually expect kenpachi to have a sword release. Not sure about bankai though.... He has more than enough power to use such a thing but in turn materializing a zampakuto in the traditional way should be hard even with that much reiatsu.

[BaddAzzKenpachi74]

I'm most looking foward to Shunsui's.

After what Ukitake said it only makes me more curious.

[Smerten]

^Actually I noticed something interesting regarding kenpachi. Kubo made a decent job not showing the eye which he is supposed to keep covered with an eyepatch. Whats more, from what we could see nothing which resembled an eyepatch string could be seen. It seems like kenpachi is no longer even wearing an eyepatch for whatever reason. Perhaps he gave up on the eyepatch and his new power limitation is his shikai.... Of course in his base form he would still have as much power as a released espada but in turn shikai would still be a considerable boost. It even makes sense kenpachi would acquire shikai over the timeskip. It is far more than enough time for someone with his power for one thing. Whats more, when ichigo defeated him he was shown asking his sword its name and during the nnoitora fight he refered to his sword as a he... I think he should actually expect kenpachi to have a sword release. Not sure about bankai though.... He has more than enough power to use such a thing but in turn materializing a zampakuto in the traditional way should be hard even with that much reiatsu.


Kenpachi's Zanpakuto is a constant released type Shikai, like Zangetsu. He just never controlled his power. There is no base-form. We always see him with Shikai. How is that possible without knowing the name? An as of yet unexplained plot hole. Anyways, Zanpakuto that are damaged can restore themselves if the Shinigami restore, as the Zans are a manifestation of the Shinigami's power. Yet Kennies sword is still all battered, another sign that he cannot control his Zan's power. He lacks the interest. Even after his fight with Ichigo, he wimsically asked his Zan's name, who stayed all quiet, like "screw you". And Kennie was like "meh, whatever". So it is not an issue of power, it is an issue of personality. The reason I said Kenpachi would not reach Bankai is directly analogous to the reason he can't control his Shikai. He doesn't want to.

[kkck]

To be honest I don't think kenpachi's sword is in shikai mode. The manga has been mildly ambiguous about that though. I also don't think the sword not immediately replying was a "fuck you" of sorts. Why would it? Its not like releasing a shikai is something every shinigami is able to do, even something seemingly as small as that requires a decent bit of talent and there is a relatively small number of shinigami who can do it. Kenpachi made it clear he wanted to become stronger, he didn't just ask the sword its name as a last joke on it before he died (he didn't die but he could have). He had a genuine interest in his zampakuto, his power.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v13/c114/12.html
And from there he actually stopped refering to his sword as a mere tool for battle and actually called it a him.... Kenpachi is at the very least trying to learn the name of his sword. Now, whether the sword is released or not is of no consequence due to this IMO.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v19/c161/8.html

Knowing the name of the sword, the relationship you have with it does a huge difference in battle. Kenpachi, who actually hurt and was hurt by his sword before, just by learning the name would experience a dramatic increase in attack power independently of whether the sword is released or not.

I still find it kinda weird that kenpachi currently has a permanently released shikai right now.. The requirement to learn shikai is basically to go into the world of the sword and learn its name. Kenpachi never did that. Now, kenpachi mentioned during his fight with ichigo that the form the sword have was the true form of the sword. Now, this statement is ambiguous at best as it could be taken either way (without context at least). If kenpachi did not have a proper sword release then the sword does not have any alternative forms basically. For kenpachi at least, that was the swords true and only form. It is possible that his sword works along the lines of that of ishin or tousen and his shikai is simply an ability but that is another matter entirely though.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

kkck
I actually didn't understand your point about Isshin's Zan...
His Zan should be totally the same as Ichigo's. They even have the same signature move as Getsuga Tenshou and have the same ultimate move Final Getsuga Tenshou.

[kkck]

I meant that neither ishin's or tousen's sword change forms when released. They maintain their regular sword shapes and use their techniques in that form. Did we actually ever saw either of them sealing or releasing their shikai? No, they went straight to using their techniques.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

I can agree about Tousen, but I can't agree about Isshin. He should have the same or more or less the same Zan as Ichigo. As I said they have the same signature techniques and also the same ultimate move. As I see it, Isshin never used his Shikai. He was always sealed.

[kkck]

^I don't see how ishin could have used an actual GT with a sealed sword that much makes no sense IMO. Thats why I compared it to tousen's shikai....

[Jorge D. Dragon]

But before we didn't know about the level after Bankai and both Ichigo's and Isshin's swords have it, but before it didn't make sense. Also before, when Ichi first got his Shinigami powers his sword looked like bigger version of Isshin's sealed sword... That's why I see as sealed sword.

[Trotter]

Tousen released his Shikai to break out of Hisagi's chain. He said the Zanpakutou's name and then the sound blew the chain off, meaning he released it. Remember, his shikai doesn't change shape.

[Zehahaha]

^I don't see how ishin could have used an actual GT with a sealed sword that much makes no sense IMO. Thats why I compared it to tousen's shikai....

Ichigo used GT with his unsealed sword against the Menos Grande (granted, he used it unconsciously, but it was a GT)

[kkck]

I very much doubt that was a getsuga tensho.... I would argue that was the sword pressure from the excess reiatsu he was releasing at the time. He wasn't even using his own shinigami powers at the time, let alone had an actual connection to zangetsu, how could it possibly be a GT?

[Jorge D. Dragon]

Maybe he wasn't using his own powers, but the shape of that sword was bigger version of his father's sealed sword.

[kkck]

^that simply means ichigo's sealed zampakuto as similar to that of his dads... Still, it does not really make sense that he would use a GT with a sealed sword before he even knew its names or was even aware zampakuto could do things of that nature.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

It actually can be. Because his Zan is a manifestation of his soul, so he can do it first even unconciously, and then, when he learn a name for the move it will become concious and be stronger. Even Zangetsu himself told Ichigo that when you know the name of the move it becomes stronger.

[kkck]

Its one thing that ichigo used GT when he at least knew zangetsu and it is another entirely different thing to do it before he even knew swords had names to begin with. Based on what we know it is far more reasonable that ichigo used simply his sword pressure than to assume he pulled off a GT when not only he still had rukia's power but also was not even aware that zampakuto had special abilities.

[Zehahaha]

Its one thing that ichigo used GT when he at least knew zangetsu and it is another entirely different thing to do it before he even knew swords had names to begin with. Based on what we know it is far more reasonable that ichigo used simply his sword pressure than to assume he pulled off a GT when not only he still had rukia's power but also was not even aware that zampakuto had special abilities.

Explain the difference please. Because I see no difference using GT while he just knew his Zanpakuto's name (without knowing it's powers, thus he used GT unconsciously) and using GT with his sealed sword.

[kkck]

The manga at large has emphasized that using your zampakuto depends extremely heavily on the relationship you have with it. At the very least when ichigo used GT unconsciously in SS he had a relationship with zangetsu, he basically had access to his power. At the very least for me it does not make a shred of sense for ichigo to use GT without even knowing there was a zangetsu thingy inside of him which granted him such powers. The relationship, knowing the name, it is all of the utmost extreme importance when it comes to zampakuto, how is it vaguely reasonable to argue that such a thing was a GT instead of a regular sword slash with more reiatsu than ichigo knows what to do with? its not like sword pressure is even a rare thing among shinigami, it is merely a sword slash with reiatsu, any shinigami should be able to do things of the sort.

[White Silver King]

Shunsui and Urahara. Both are "not fit to be seen by others". I hope Urahara's has some sort of gorey blood effect and something like Jumanji for Shunsui lol.

Theirs are closely followed by Unohana's, her's has gotta be amazing. I read a fanfic of hers once and it was mega-epic.


^I don't see how ishin could have used an actual GT with a sealed sword that much makes no sense IMO. Thats why I compared it to tousen's shikai....

GT is just a concentration of Spiritual Energy, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to do with a sealed sword. Hailbel and Urahara have performed nearly identical techs with their sealed swords and Kido is basically the same thing.