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conan
March 05, 2006, 07:46 AM
well is it possible that ichigo is from the shiba clan.
since ishin is a shinigami, and i cant forget the reaction captian ukitake had on his face
when he first saw ichigo and thought he resembled shiba kaien, and sui fong mentions something about the
shiba clan being destroyed when they were a noble family in soul society.
could sui fongs statements be becuase of ishinsactions either in helping urahara or leaving soul society or
whatever he did in the past, and finally i recall what byakuya mentioned about whyichigo has so much rieatsu even
without being nobilty.
what do you guys think.

ryderdm3
March 05, 2006, 08:29 PM
It's possible. Ichigo looks a lot like Kaien. Also, this would explain why no one recognized Ichigo's name. It's obvious that Isshin was quite strong. So I find it hard to believe that he was unknown in Soul Society. It's possible that Kurosaki is a fake name that he took on to hide himself in the human world. Your theory is quite good, and I find it believable.

Miso
March 05, 2006, 09:07 PM
I don't think that Ichigo and the Shibas are related.
Why didn't Ganju tell him about that? Or at leas his sister (forgot the name)? I mean she seems quite capable and well informed about Soul Society. She would have known if Ichigo was part of the Shiba family, I believe.
And the resemblance to Kaien doesn't mean much. Ichigo also resembles one of the vaizards. But that doesn't mean that they are related.

Galth
March 05, 2006, 09:07 PM
Well, i wouldn't be surprised correction, i would be, but i say the possibility is there... Would be a cool twist to the story...

ryderdm3
March 06, 2006, 06:10 AM
Kukaku could very well know and not say anything. She never told Ganju that Ukitake came by to clear Rukia of any wrong doing. It's possible that she never told Ganju about Ichigo either.

Remember, it's likely that Isshin left Soul Society when Ganju was very young. Even if he wasn't very young, Ganju has no idea who Ichigo's dad is. Ichigo doesn't make it a point to go talking about his family. For all we know, Ganju may have fond memories of his Uncle Isshin. If my theory on the Kurosaki name being made up, then Ganju would have no clue who Ichigo was.

conan
March 07, 2006, 02:49 PM
you have a point there miso,but i think the thought is still valid ,to tell you the truth its just a thought not even atheory it could be tru and may not,
i just wanted to see what other people thought of it.
about ganjus sister kukaku well ichigo only existed 15 years ago when he was born.
no one except urahara should know that ishin has a son fom soul society.

graphic_content
March 07, 2006, 07:24 PM
well ukitake first saw ichigo on the bridge...byakuya said something to the effect, "he is not the man you think he is, and is unrelated to the man who used to be my superior"...

...i thought they were making a foreshadowing reference to Ichigo's father...

...Ichigo's father is in fact a death god, a captain level at that, and considering his age I think its possible that he could've once been Byakuya's superior...i dont think there is any relation to the Shiba clan though...or that would have been explored already during their time in Soul Society.

Meijin no Kori
March 07, 2006, 07:38 PM
well ukitake first saw ichigo on the bridge...byakuya said something to the effect, "he is not the man you think he is, and is unrelated to the man who used to be my superior"...

...i thought they were making a foreshadowing reference to Ichigo's father...
Nope, Byakuya and Ukitake were definently referring to Shiba Kaien there, not Isshin.

conan
March 07, 2006, 07:41 PM
wait a second there graphic content, i think there is a misunderstanding.
when baykuya said what he said on the bridge ,what i understood is,"he isnt the man that just flashed through your mind,my superior".
thats what i understood,my superior refering to ukitake as he is higher than him in age and experience being one of the first two captains
after yammamoto.
check it again and so will i,becuase that makes things much more different.
and then ichigo doesnt look anything like his father,and he is like a reflection of shiba kaien,ukitakes vice captain except the hairs colour is different.
and byakuya mentions that ichigo resembles kaien when he takes rukia forcibly to soul society.
he tells her after seeing her defend him without an unknown reason.
"i see, rukia,he resembles (him)".
thanks for making my poin Mnk

ryderdm3
March 07, 2006, 10:22 PM
Yeah you got the translation wrong, at least I think so. I remembered it as him saying "No relation to the man who just passed through your head, my senior". It's assumed he meant Kaien. I haven't read the manga for those episodes, but in the gamecube game they assume that as well. When they show Ichigo on that bridge, they pan an image of Kaien over him for a few seconds. I just assumed Byukuya meant his senior was Ukitake.

graphic_content
March 08, 2006, 02:12 AM
i guess i was mistaken...

...but clarify something for me guys, if Ichigo's father is in fact a captain gone missing from soul society...

...why didnt anyone make that connection when they raided the place to save Rukia...and does that mean that Ishin had in fact already died in a previous life, became a member of the soul society, went A-wall like Urahara, entered a gigai and just started a whole NEW life!!!...

those are my thoughts...but definetly thanks for clearing up that Shiba Kaien thing...makes more sense to me now.

ryderdm3
March 08, 2006, 02:25 AM
I don't know about all that. My thoughts are Isshin changed his last name from whatever to Kurosaki. When Ichigo stormed Soul Society, no one there would have a clue who Ichigo was and that he was Isshin's son. They don't look all that much alike, at least not enough that when you see Ichigo that you think Isshin. And with Ichigo going by the Kurosaki name, they have no clue as to who his father is or what his family is. To them, he's a regular human with shinigami abilities. Ichigo was born in the human world, so no one in Soul Society would know his name. Isshin most likely left around or before Urahara, changed his surname, and then started a family in the Human world.

conan
March 08, 2006, 08:04 AM
well ichigos father isnt in fact anything, i mean we know he is a shingami and quite a strong one at that,he knows urahara,and thats it.
thats all we know for a fact about ishins shinigami life.
i would think the reason of no one recognising ishin up til now is well that no one but rukia saw him til now from the shinigami.
and well since ishin lost his powers like urahara said he didnt have to worry about rieatsu,until he got his powers back ofcourse ,he had to hide them then.
so thats what i think.

Dragonzair
March 08, 2006, 04:45 PM
Conan: Actually, there's a chance that Isshin might have been a part of the Royal Guard, if not a Captain/Vice-Captain.

Even if we don't know what kind of Shinigami he was, there's no question in how deeply involved he might have been, in anything.

But back to the question in this thread...

I think there might be a chance that he is. I know for a fact that alot of people think that Ichigo might be a reincarnation of Kae, but I think that's too much.

What made me think of the chances of Ichigo being in the Shiba clan, was the fact that Kuukaka is quite close friends with Urahara/Yoruichi. Why? Maybe because of Yoruichi being in royalty and meeting Kuukaka that way.

But then Kuukaka was really wanting to help once she found out Urahara was involved in that Rukia-saving-arc thingy. My theory here would be, that Urahara did the Shiba clan a favour, by helping Isshin or something like that.

I know it may be far-fetched, but it's just a thoery. :sweatdrop

conan
March 08, 2006, 05:09 PM
hmmm,well both pasts of ishin and urahara are two of the biggest mysteries in bleach.
so no one can say for sure but thanks for your post anyway DZ :smile-big.
any other theories on this?

pelias
May 27, 2006, 09:15 AM
is there any chance that ishin istead of bein from the royal guard could be relative to the royal family?

Light
June 06, 2006, 05:31 PM
If Ichigo's family were nobles or whatever then wouldn't everyone in his household be able to see hollows and shinigami really well because they have royal blood?

conan
June 07, 2006, 09:03 PM
the facts about ishin are all mystery, the only things we know until now is that he is a shinigami and that he is a strong one at that, he knows urahara kisuke, and thats all we know about ishins shinigami life pelias.
ichigos family are able to see ghosts, it is mentioned in both the first chapter in the manga and the first episode in the anime.
but their abilities vary and his sister karin's abilities grow a bit during the anime and manga.

asymptotic
June 14, 2006, 11:42 PM
I'd say the spirit king took the remains of Kaien's spirit after the hollow incident
and brought him back in the form of Ichigo. That's why Ichigo has hollow powers and why everyone says hey Ichigo resembles Kaien. Also Isshin would be part of the royal family/guard.
And the spirit king is messing with everyone in soul society by doing this.

_ATMA
June 15, 2006, 12:47 AM
If Ichigo's family were nobles or whatever then wouldn't everyone in his household be able to see hollows and shinigami really well because they have royal blood?


it isnt about just having royal blood or not its about how much spritual power the person has remember ichigo only started seeing the ghosts so much at the beggining of bleach maybe their powers just havnt come to built up as much more ichigo just inheritited his fathers power more then anything else o-o

Dragonzair
June 19, 2006, 07:51 AM
What made me think of the chances of Ichigo being in the Shiba clan, was the fact that Kuukaka is quite close friends with Urahara/Yoruichi. Why? Maybe because of Yoruichi being in royalty and meeting Kuukaka that way.

But then Kuukaka was really wanting to help once she found out Urahara was involved in that Rukia-saving-arc thingy. My theory here would be, that Urahara did the Shiba clan a favour, by helping Isshin or something like that.

After serious thinking (and a rather provoking fanfic I recently read), this theory actually seems very much plausible. o.O

Alright. When the name Kurosaki was mentioned, I remember Ikkakku (or someone >.<) somehow slightly recognised the name. But when Ikkaku went to the real world, none of them recognised Isshin. (probably hiding from Ichigo, but..I dunno XD)

So what if the name Kurosaki had been famous in SS or maybe known around (and may have been passed down to Ikkaku's generation, or whatever) in the Gotei 13.

But they never really knew who the man was (which would probably explain why none of the Shinigamis in earth recognised Isshin). Is it possible that Royal Guards are well known, but rarely seen? Their job is after-all to protect the Royal Family. And I'm thinking the best way to protect them is by not making themselves known.

Now, reason for why the name Kurosaki is known, is maybe because of Urahara, or blahblahbalh. His name was called aloud, or something normal like that.

Anyway.

Why would Kukkaku be so willing to help anything to do with Urahara? From my quote, I put up a rather far fetched theory that it had something to do with Isshin.

Now back to the thread title.

Is it possible that Isshin, is related to the Shiba clan, as close as siblings to Kukkaka, Ganjyuu and Kaien? (VERY FARFETCHED I KNOW HAHAH XD) Why was the Shiba clan disowned? What if it had something to do with the eldest sibling (Isshin) disowning the family to become a Shinigami or furthermore, a Royal Guard? Thus, changing his name? Bringing the whole family to shame, and sending them to the outskirts of Rukongai.

Then after a few years, Kaien follows his brother's leads, and you know how the story goes.

If you think about it, the whole family is hot headed. I mean, Isshin isn't as hot headed as Ichigo, but Urahara did once mention that he was very similar to his son.

And what is Ichigo famous for? His hot headed-ness. Kukkaka? Being a hot headed female of Bleach. Ganjyuu? Just as much as his sister. Kaein's a happy go lucky guy, but I somehow sense a hot headed vibe from him too.

Similar.

Really. >_>;; I know this thoery has so many goddamn holes, that I could'nt fill, and also no proof at all. But it's a theory nonetheless. ^_^

Tonton
June 22, 2006, 10:52 PM
I think that the similiarities between Ichigo, Kaien and the rest of the Shiba clan are too great to dismiss. He's one of them, definitely, but is still definitely Isshin and Masaki's son. What's been bouncing around in my head is that, with all this experimentation of Hollow and shinigami mixing, somehow Kaien and the Hollow's "unified spirit" was harvested before Kaien died. Sure, Rukia stabbed him but how many times have we seen similiar injuries being survived by other shinigami? It rather boggles the mind that one would go down THAT easily but I could see the temptation of a mixed soul being too great to ignore. How it got into Isshin and Masaki's son could be easily explained. For all we know, Ichigo could've been stillborn (born without a soul) and Isshin sought out Urahara to keep Masaki's heart from breaking. Like the hougyouku, Urahara might've been very amenable to hiding it within a human body and it influenced Ichigo's growth (like a faux body). Farfetched, I know, but it would explain the strong similiarities that Ichigo has to Kaien and the rest of the Shiba clan but still remaining Isshin and Masaki's child. Heck, it could've been this reason why Urahara put the stone in Rukia and tried to make her a human. Rukia loved Kaien and Ichigo would be the one thing that would make up for her loss of being a shinigami in his mind.

nippyer
February 10, 2007, 05:05 PM
what if isshin had 2 sons? kaien is obviosely older then ichigo, and isshin is older then kaien probably. so when isshin was in soul society as a shiba clan member, he became a shinigami and met the love of his life. they had kids, KAIEN, kukakku, and ganju. Something happened, and his wife died when their kids where very, very young. kaien was the oldest, im pretty sure, and because he knew that kukkaku and ganju did not understand what happened, he decided to hide it from them. isshin knew that he couldnt live on, and faked his death, then ran away with urahara and yorouchi at the same time because they were good friends. in the real world, he started a new life and met masaki, who looked similar to his previous wife.( i heard when you die in soul society, you are reborn as a new person in the real world in order to maintain balance. so this couldve really been his real wife.) he started a new life with her, and had 3 more kids. when she died, he was devastated, but hid it from his children. all the years when he was in the real world he regretted leaving his children in soul society. he decided to stay, and make life good for his 3 kids in the real world, for the sake of masaki. that is why ichigo looks like kaien and why he has high spirit energy.

i think that fills all the gaps!! this is just my theory.

gigantor21
February 10, 2007, 11:09 PM
what if isshin had 2 sons? kaien is obviosely older then ichigo, and isshin is older then kaien probably. so when isshin was in soul society as a shiba clan member, he became a shinigami and met the love of his life. they had kids, KAIEN, kukakku, and ganju. Something happened, and his wife died when their kids where very, very young. kaien was the oldest, im pretty sure, and because he knew that kukkaku and ganju did not understand what happened, he decided to hide it from them. isshin knew that he couldnt live on, and faked his death, then ran away with urahara and yorouchi at the same time because they were good friends. in the real world, he started a new life and met masaki, who looked similar to his previous wife.( i heard when you die in soul society, you are reborn as a new person in the real world in order to maintain balance. so this couldve really been his real wife.) he started a new life with her, and had 3 more kids. when she died, he was devastated, but hid it from his children. all the years when he was in the real world he regretted leaving his children in soul society. he decided to stay, and make life good for his 3 kids in the real world, for the sake of masaki. that is why ichigo looks like kaien and why he has high spirit energy.

i think that fills all the gaps!! this is just my theory.


That's an intriguing theory, but there are some things that I don't get.

What do you mean when you say that he couldn't live on? And if he did die, then how would he have been snuck out of Soul Society in the first place? And why would they even bother sneaking him out if he would be brought back to life in the real world when he died, anyway? And what difference would it make if he had his memories or not if he never planned on seeing his children again, anyway?

nippyer
February 11, 2007, 03:01 PM
i dont know... i just thought up of that while i was righting. i dont know, maybe something else happened. im good at making theories but everyone knows its hard to fill up the things that dont make sense

gigantor21
February 11, 2007, 05:45 PM
i dont know... i just thought up of that while i was righting. i dont know, maybe something else happened. im good at making theories but everyone knows its hard to fill up the things that dont make sense


Well, I think that the only sticking point is the part about Isshin being near death in Soul Society--without that, I think it COULD be possible, even if it probably isn't the case. I wouldn't worry about it too much, though; like you said, it 's just speculation.

sahugani
February 11, 2007, 06:07 PM
personally i think Ichigo's relation to the Shiba clan and Kaien in particular will end up being the central issue that ties together all of the great mysteries of Bleach. This issue bugs me because Kubo seems to be dancing around the subject. He keeps leaving hints that do not seem to connect in any way at all, but instead open up mysteries of their own. the only common thread seems to be the fact that Kubo is intentionally laying groundwork for a future development that will profoundly impact the story.

here are those hints
-Isshin is a captain-class shinigami
-The Shiba clan suffered one of the worst disgraces in Soul Society history
-Ichigo bears strong resemblance to Kaien

individually those matters seem completely unrelated, but all three were extremely shocking pieces of info that directly connect to Ichigo, Kaien or both yet were left completely underdeveloped by Kubo. I think that Kubo is setting up for a huge revalation in the future regarding Ichigo and Kaien's appearance. while that fact wil be schocking enough, the real effect will be gained by the realization that all those mysteries are related and explained by one event.

then again, i have no actual proof that these are connected except for my own interperetation of Kubo's storywriting strategies

in short...yes, i do believe that Ichigo is related to the Shiba family in some way, but i believe that the reasoning behind it is one of the most intricate and hidden mysteries in the whole manga

gigantor21
February 11, 2007, 06:12 PM
I could buy it, but I definitely don't think that Kubo was planning this early on. I interpret his style of storytelling as setting up loose ends deliberately just to tie them all together with one or two big twists much later on. Aizen's betrayal is an example of that--you're theory could be another one. But it could just as easily be something else, because I honestly don't think Kubo knows yet, either.

Grand Architect
February 12, 2007, 06:50 PM
what if isshin had 2 sons? kaien is obviosely older then ichigo, and isshin is older then kaien probably. so when isshin was in soul society as a shiba clan member, he became a shinigami and met the love of his life. they had kids, KAIEN, kukakku, and ganju. Something happened, and his wife died when their kids where very, very young. kaien was the oldest, im pretty sure, and because he knew that kukkaku and ganju did not understand what happened, he decided to hide it from them. isshin knew that he couldnt live on, and faked his death, then ran away with urahara and yorouchi at the same time because they were good friends. in the real world, he started a new life and met masaki, who looked similar to his previous wife.( i heard when you die in soul society, you are reborn as a new person in the real world in order to maintain balance. so this couldve really been his real wife.) he started a new life with her, and had 3 more kids. when she died, he was devastated, but hid it from his children. all the years when he was in the real world he regretted leaving his children in soul society. he decided to stay, and make life good for his 3 kids in the real world, for the sake of masaki. that is why ichigo looks like kaien and why he has high spirit energy.

i think that fills all the gaps!! this is just my theory.


This is also my theory, Kaien, kukakku, and Ganja are Isshin's first three childern born in his time in SS as a shinigami and Head of the shiba clan. There was an event that drove Isshin to flee SS with the Shiba clan in disgrace (maybe helping/with urahara). Back on earth Isshin starts a new life in a false body thats saps his powers, marries and has three more childern.

IMHO it would be cool to link the Shiba clan and Ichigo.

alekosss_kenpachi
February 12, 2007, 07:21 PM
YEAAAHH Kuukaku Ichigo's big sister.Just Freaking great!It is a mystery that Kubo has kept secret for too long..i think it is time he revealed it to us..Maybe in the next chapter we are going to find out.

nippyer
February 12, 2007, 07:24 PM
i hope. he always putting in awesome twists, thats what i love about bleach; you never know whats gonna happen next.

mars0103
February 17, 2007, 11:51 AM
This has been bugging me for a while why those two look the same apart from the hair. This theroy hit me while i was watching the dub of bleach and than cheaked up on the manga.
There Half brothers or at least related. This is kind of backed up be karin and shibas little sister Kuukaku. They look almost identical apart from the age.

This might explain alot put who knows. Plz give you opinions

(shoot me out of the water if you like :))

gigantor21
February 17, 2007, 12:52 PM
There are lots of people who think that Kaien and Ichigo are related in some way, and have thought so since Kaien was introduced. So it's not like you're theory is too out there to be shot down...

Personally, I don't think they are. It's fine if they just resemble each other--and besides, Ganju and Kaien don't look anything alike, so I doubt their looks are indicative of much in terms of lineage.

(By the way, when you say "yo-something", do you mean Yoruichi? Because she isn't Kaien's sister, and she definitely doesn't look like Karin. If you're talking about Kuukaku, who is Kaien's sister, then it makes more sense.)

mars0103
February 17, 2007, 01:35 PM
Personally, I don't think they are. It's fine if they just resemble each other--and besides, Ganju and Kaien don't look anything alike, so I doubt their looks are indicative of much in terms of lineage.



Yes i though of that but having karin and kuukaku looking simiar as well is backing up the relation theroy.

Dragonzair
February 17, 2007, 04:11 PM
^The most similar thing that bonds the three siblings together is their lower lashes. XD Also, another person who looks exactly like Kuukaku would be...Tatsuki!

Look at the way their hair looks. XD

Actually, the most intersting people are the Shiba clan. I've read this theory (no back-ups, of course. Merely speculations) in this fanfic I read. XD It seemed soo far-fetched, but it's really interesting.

Mind you, as I said, no back-ups, and nothing is canon. Just pure speculations and guesses. And...I'm jsut going to quote myself from another thread:


After serious thinking (and a rather provoking fanfic I recently read), this theory actually seems very much plausible. o.O

Alright. When the name Kurosaki was mentioned, I remember Ikkakku (or someone >.<) somehow slightly recognised the name. But when Ikkaku went to the real world, none of them recognised Isshin. (probably hiding from Ichigo, but..I dunno XD)

So what if the name Kurosaki had been famous in SS or maybe known around (and may have been passed down to Ikkaku's generation, or whatever) in the Gotei 13.

But they never really knew who the man was (which would probably explain why none of the Shinigamis in earth recognised Isshin). Is it possible that Royal Guards are well known, but rarely seen? Their job is after-all to protect the Royal Family. And I'm thinking the best way to protect them is by not making themselves known.

Now, reason for why the name Kurosaki is known, is maybe because of Urahara, or blahblahbalh. His name was called aloud, or something normal like that.

Anyway.

Why would Kukkaku be so willing to help anything to do with Urahara? From my quote, I put up a rather far fetched theory that it had something to do with Isshin.

Now back to the thread title.

Is it possible that Isshin, is related to the Shiba clan, as close as siblings to Kukkaka, Ganjyuu and Kaien? (VERY FARFETCHED I KNOW HAHAH XD) Why was the Shiba clan disowned? What if it had something to do with the eldest sibling (Isshin) disowning the family to become a Shinigami or furthermore, a Royal Guard? Thus, changing his name? Bringing the whole family to shame, and sending them to the outskirts of Rukongai.

Then after a few years, Kaien follows his brother's leads, and you know how the story goes.

If you think about it, the whole family is hot headed. I mean, Isshin isn't as hot headed as Ichigo, but Urahara did once mention that he was very similar to his son.

And what is Ichigo famous for? His hot headed-ness. Kukkaku? Being a hot headed female of Bleach. Ganjyuu? Just as much as his sister. Kaein's a happy go lucky guy, but I somehow sense a hot headed vibe from him too.

Similar.

Really. >_>;; I know this thoery has so many goddamn holes, that I could'nt fill, and also no proof at all. But it's a theory nonetheless. ^_^
[br]Posted on: February 17, 2007, 04:06:02 PM_________________________________________________Another popular theory is that Ichigo is a reincarnation of Kaien. But that plot-device has been used much too often, plus I think latest developments prove otherwise.

But one thing that is quite interesting to note is this:

Bleach

While Shirosaki (or Wichigo, or whatever Ichi's inner hollow is nowadays called) could be a bleached version of Ichigo, Ichigo himself could be the bleached version of Kaien.

Numerous reference have been put forward (and poked fun off) to Ichigo's hair colour. Thinking about it, it's like a bleach-i-fied version of Kaien's. XD But I seriously don't know where I'm going with this, so I'll just shut up. XD

mars0103
February 17, 2007, 07:29 PM
Another popular theory is that Ichigo is a reincarnation of Kaien. But that plot-device has been used much too often, plus I think latest developments prove otherwise.

But one thing that is quite interesting to note is this:

Bleach

While Shirosaki (or Wichigo, or whatever Ichi's inner hollow is nowadays called) could be a bleached version of Ichigo, Ichigo himself could be the bleached version of Kaien.

Numerous reference have been put forward (and poked fun off) to Ichigo's hair colour. Thinking about it, it's like a bleach-i-fied version of Kaien's. XD But I seriously don't know where I'm going with this, so I'll just shut up. XD

Kaien is alive so THAT A NO :)

Dragonzair
February 18, 2007, 04:04 AM
Which was why I said that I was going nowhere with that theory and
But that plot-device has been used much too often, plus I think latest developments prove otherwise.

XD

It was a nice thoery that lasted long enough butover-used. Granted, Kubo went for another. I swtill like the idea of Kaine and Ichi being blood-related though. XD

mars0103
February 18, 2007, 06:50 AM
Which was why I said that I was going nowhere with that theory and
XD

It was a nice thoery that lasted long enough butover-used. Granted, Kubo went for another. I swtill like the idea of Kaine and Ichi being blood-related though. XD

iam cry with fits of despair :smile-big but we all have to see. If thats the case kubo is using generic chartacter designs :noworry

Kazu-kun
February 19, 2007, 04:00 AM
This has been bugging me for a while why those two look the same apart from the hair. This theroy hit me while i was watching the dub of bleach and than cheaked up on the manga.
There Half brothers or at least related. This is kind of backed up be karin and shibas little sister Kuukaku. They look almost identical apart from the age.

This might explain alot put who knows. Plz give you opinions

(shoot me out of the water if you like :))

Well the thing is the biggest factor is Ichigo's dad. Isshin is a captain level shinigami and what's more no real head of the Shiba clan who looks like they should be has been introduced. Kukkaku is obviously the current leader of the Shiba clan, but she is in same generation as Ganju and Kaien (since they've always been refered as siblings). Biggest possibility is that Isshin could have been the head of the household as the father of the 3 Shibas, due to all of the resemblances.

mars0103
February 19, 2007, 10:33 AM
Well the thing is the biggest factor is Ichigo's dad. Isshin is a captain level shinigami and what's more no real head of the Shiba clan who looks like they should be has been introduced. Kukkaku is obviously the current leader of the Shiba clan, but she is in same generation as Ganju and Kaien (since they've always been refered as siblings). Biggest possibility is that Isshin could have been the head of the household as the father of the 3 Shibas, due to all of the resemblances.


Thats want i think as well didnt put that in though

alliexchan
February 25, 2007, 05:01 PM
Well the thing is the biggest factor is Ichigo's dad. Isshin is a captain level shinigami and what's more no real head of the Shiba clan who looks like they should be has been introduced. Kukkaku is obviously the current leader of the Shiba clan, but she is in same generation as Ganju and Kaien (since they've always been refered as siblings). Biggest possibility is that Isshin could have been the head of the household as the father of the 3 Shibas, due to all of the resemblances.


but when ganju saw kisuke, he told him that he is the same as as his sister [kukkaku]
so i dont get how isshin could be their dad.
because kisuke and isshin are like, best friends too, so i expect their the same age too.
if i went along with your theory, i would suspect that isshin is another sibling to kuukaku, ganju, and kaien.

sahugani
February 25, 2007, 05:09 PM
but when ganju saw kisuke, he told him that he is the same as as his sister [kukkaku]
so i dont get how isshin could be their dad.
because kisuke and isshin are like, best friends too, so i expect their the same age too.
if i went along with your theory, i would suspect that isshin is another sibling to kuukaku, ganju, and kaien.


remember that conversation is from filler and thus cannot be cited for evidence. currently, i don't know what to believe. it is clearly not mere coincidence and i think we may get an answer somewhat soon as we now have the opportunity for the two to meet. who knows, maybe Isshin will show up and get the whole thing explained (i wish), though i think that we'll get the explanation from Kaien

Rhan
February 26, 2007, 03:04 AM
There are actually 3 characters with the same face. Remove the tattos on Hisagi Shuhei's face and you've got Kaien. I wonder why no one ever mention him in those threads.

poopoomaru
February 26, 2007, 04:00 AM
There are actually 3 characters with the same face. Remove the tattos on Hisagi Shuhei's face and you've got Kaien. I wonder why no one ever mention him in those threads.


That I am pretty sure that is just a coincidence from the lack of variablity the manga drawing style gives for drawing faces sometimes. THe Kaien-ichigo relation though is actually mentioned in the manga between Ukitake and Byakuya after Ichigo drops down in an attempt to save Rukia, Ganju and Hanataro.

alliexchan
February 27, 2007, 09:28 PM
hmm. i forgot. XD
thanks for pointing that out.
hmm.i guess. hisagis cool.
but i think it would be too much if you had like, three people. you know?

Akhkharu
January 07, 2010, 01:11 AM
Ok I have been thinking of this and it makes more and more sense the more I think about it.

Ok, I think that the Kurosaki family is actually part of the Shiba clan. Here's Why:

Kaien Shiba looks like Ichigo. A simple explanation to why they look the same.

Both Ichigo AND Ishhin have a bankai. It has been stated in Bleach that only a few people from the noble houses have bankai, along with a few other randoms. The fact that both father and son have bankai is rather simply explained by saying they are both from a noble house.

I'm not trollin', discuss and prove me wrong :-)

Exodi
January 07, 2010, 01:37 AM
This is a nice theory, but I don't think it'll happen.

Ichigo looking like Kaien was noted at one point, when Ichigo made an appearance on the bridge and Ukitake saw him. It's still not enough to actually connect Ichigo to the Shiba.





What I would like is for Kuukaku to make another appearance.

Akhkharu
January 07, 2010, 03:14 AM
This is a nice theory, but I don't think it'll happen.

Ichigo looking like Kaien was noted at one point, when Ichigo made an appearance on the bridge and Ukitake saw him. It's still not enough to actually connect Ichigo to the Shiba.





What I would like is for Kuukaku to make another appearance.

yea i would like to see her make another appearance too. and you are right ukitake thought that ichigo might be related to kaien and byakuya told him that ichigo wasnt. but what is to say that byakuya isnt wrong? i think that byakuya assumed that ichigo was simply a human that obtained shinigami powers and not a half breed.

Richo
January 07, 2010, 03:43 AM
Kuukaku did not recognize Ichigo nor his name. She maybe made the link to the kaien but nothing else. This alone already proves ichigo is not related to the shiba clan.

vizardichigo
January 07, 2010, 05:41 AM
No need to act like that Drakend...I hear what you are saying man but i dont think they are related...Interesting theory but i think someone would have noticed..The fact that Shinji also didnt notice Isshin's reiatsu means he is not part of any family in SS that other characters are familiar with...I do think think that the Shiba clan has some part to play still in the story though..

benelori
January 07, 2010, 05:42 AM
Nice theory though Kuukaku's reaction and even Ganju's can prove UR theory wrong...
@drakend take it easy my friend...this was an idea for a discussion, not for defending ideals or honor

drakend
January 07, 2010, 07:44 AM
@drakend take it easy my friend...this was an idea for a discussion, not for defending ideals or honor
Oh but I took it easy... I had lots of fun while writing that post actually... :D
But this doesn't change the fact that people should really STOP considering their own personal speculation as evidence, that's all.

Akhkharu
January 07, 2010, 12:45 PM
Where has it been stated? Only actual panels of manga chapters are accepted as EVIDENCE... links to other stories/theories/whatever are just speculation, no matter how complex they are.

You aren't telling a story to a kiddo to make him sleeping, so be less generic and mention specific facts. I think you're referring to what Byakuya said in front of Ichigo when he was releasing his bankai for the first time in the manga. Am I wrong?

No dude you're quite confused... first of all you're the one who must prove your theory to be correct and anyway something must be clear:


WHAT YOU SAY = SPECULATION
WHAT THE MANGA SAYS = EVIDENCE


yes im referring to byakuya's comments about noble families and bankais. if bankai's are that rare then it would make sense to me that a father and son of a noble clan would have them

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/187/12-13/
ishhin has a captain's haori. all captains (except kenpachi) have bankai.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/187/17/
i think there's some translation errors on this page because the anime (both japanese and dub) said something different than the manga.

i know it is speculation. that's why i made a thread to discuss it.
i dont have to prove anything. what do i get for proof? 6 free internets?
i will think whatever i want whenever i want and there isnt a damned thing anyone can do about it. being a dick isnt going to "scare me off" this is the internet not the playground.


in addition: i think the reason kukakku didnt recognize ichigo is because he is 15... why would she recognize someone she has never seen?

living under a false name would make sense too, especially if you had something to hide...
also, shinji has been in the real world for 100+ years. why would he recognize a young captain's reaitsu?

drakend
January 07, 2010, 01:50 PM
yes im referring to byakuya's comments about noble families and bankais. if bankai's are that rare then it would make sense to me that a father and son of a noble clan would have them
Nothing states Isshin and Ichigo are part of a noble family.



http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/187/12-13/
ishhin has a captain's haori. all captains (except kenpachi) have bankai.

Yet he's unknown to almost anyone in SS, so he isn't part of gotei 13. It makes sense he wasn't recognized when Ichigo wasn't famous in SS, but now it would be retarded if SS wouldn't known about his family... :eyeroll
Most likely he's part of the Royal Guards, but that's just speculation.



i dont have to prove anything. what do i get for proof? 6 free internets?

You write some random speculation and then you say "prove me I'm wrong!". I only pointed out it's you who must prove you're right... :facepalm



in addition: i think the reason kukakku didnt recognize ichigo is because he is 15... why would she recognize someone she has never seen?

Right so Ukitake pointed out Ichigo's resemblance to Kaien, while Kukkaku, HER SISTER, didn't recognize him. :eyeroll



also, shinji has been in the real world for 100+ years. why would he recognize a young captain's reaitsu?
He only asked himself whose huge reiatsu was the one he suddenly felt and that was different from Ichigo's one.

Akhkharu
January 07, 2010, 03:38 PM
Nothing states Isshin and Ichigo are part of a noble family.


Yet he's unknown to almost anyone in SS, so he isn't part of gotei 13. It makes sense he wasn't recognized when Ichigo wasn't famous in SS, but now it would be retarded if SS wouldn't known about his family... :eyeroll
Most likely he's part of the Royal Guards, but that's just speculation.


You write some random speculation and then you say "prove me I'm wrong!". I only pointed out it's you who must prove you're right... :facepalm


Right so Ukitake pointed out Ichigo's resemblance to Kaien, while Kukkaku, HER SISTER, didn't recognize him. :eyeroll


He only asked himself whose huge reiatsu was the one he suddenly felt and that was different from Ichigo's one.

yea we will probably find out during the upcoming Isshin arc... and like i said before. why would kaien's sister know who ichigo was? he is only 15... and you are right he is probably part of the royal guard. i still stand by that he is part of the shiba clan. related in some way. besides having the same artist, how else can you explain the resemblance? just coincidence? and remember, nothing states that they ARE part of a noble family. but nothing states that they ARENT part of a noble family. it seems like Isshin has just been laying low. and no older captains have met him or seen him in the manga except urahara. and maybe the reason his haori doesnt have a gotei 13 symbol is because he is part of the royal guard. or even better, royal family perhaps? all good theories and speculation. like i said we will most likely have all of our questions answered in the isshin arc. and source on there being an isshin arc is bleach asylum.

jev23
February 18, 2010, 07:00 AM
Does anyone think Isshin looks like Ganju?

DARK
February 24, 2010, 10:41 PM
People say that Ichigo is the reincarnation of Kaien. I find it weird that, despite Ukitake and Byakuya noticing Ichigo's resemblance to Kaien, neither of Kaien's siblings seem to have noticed this.
There is a possibility that the Ganju and Kurosaki families are related, given that Isshin was a former Shinigami and that Shinigami are able to reproduce.

bleach fan 101
March 03, 2010, 02:42 PM
Maybe they are sensing the similarity in spirit energy as well because neither Kuukaku or Ganju are Shinigami so they may not be able to sense it.

I believe we will see who Isshin and Ichigo are related to in the next couple of manga episodes, because he said that he (and urahara) should train for the up coming battle, and if he is related it should say (seeing as the oldest captains are there).

kkck
March 03, 2010, 05:26 PM
Ichigo cannot be a reincarnation of kaien. He was devoured by metastacia and eventuall fused with arroniero. How could kaien's soul be in two places at the same time?

bleach fan 101
March 04, 2010, 05:20 PM
He may not be the reincarnation of Kaien, but he may be kaien's twin that was put in suspended animation and then put into a human baby that had just died (they could have had a child that died at birth) and Isshin could have lost his soul powers from it, this could explain why Issin left the SS and why the Shiba clan was disgraced.

I know it's full of holes but I came up with it while I was writing and if you highlight those holes I'll try to fill them in.

niblack89
March 09, 2010, 09:02 PM
Actually Ganjyu and Isshin does have a resemblance Ganjyu (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/116/32/) and Isshin (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/187/02/) they have the same face pattern their eyes are the same even their nose are similar.

All besides Ganjyu the shiba seems to be talented. If Ichigo's mother had black hair he would be Kian's twin. I don't think that is a accident. hell they all even act the same. Isshin the trader brother shiba.

bleach fan 101
March 13, 2010, 04:07 PM
that's true Ganjyu and Ichigo fight like brothers and there's a bit when Ganjyu is by the repentence cell that makes me think that Ganjyu knows something because he says that they (Ganjyu and Ichigo) need to talk when they rescue Rukia, this could show that Ganjyu knows that they are related or something along those lines

bleach fan 101
March 26, 2010, 04:35 PM
lots of people believe that Kurosaki is not Ichigo's true name, i want to know your ideas

Charlie
March 26, 2010, 04:56 PM
Seems like a popular one is Ichigo Shiba. If you ask me tho... Idk.

kkck
March 26, 2010, 05:50 PM
Well, I think kurosaki is ichigo's real last name. I just don't think it is ishin's proper last name. I think kurosaki is masaki's last name and ishin conveniently adopted it after whatever happened in the past happened.

BTW, this thread should not be here.

Kaiten
March 28, 2010, 02:22 PM
Completely agree. Isshin probably dropped his family name when he went into exile. He adopted hers to make his presence less obvious should anyone come looking for it. The Shiba Clinic might be a bit of a give away should any passing shinigami come by.

I think Isshin is a Shiba due to Ichigo's resemblance to Kaien. Kubo most likely drew them that way for a reason, name two other characters who resemble each other. He may have wanted to establish Ichigo as a Shiba down the line.

kkck
March 28, 2010, 04:08 PM
I always thought it was weird the shiba clan stopped being considered a noble family. A member dying seems to be an extreme for such a thing. If ishin was a member of the shiba clan, then the clan would have fallen not because kaien died but because of a number of consecutive failures. Ishin, either died -according to them- or defected, kaien, was killed by a measly hollow. It would make sense to remove them from a list of powerful families if so many consecutive members turned into failures, specially when there can be hundreds of years between generations.

Hystzen
March 28, 2010, 06:20 PM
dunno bout a shiba but aint there another noble family not been shown yet im sure there somewhere written there is another noble family apart from Kuchki and Shiba. i think isshin is part of that family and will be shown in the isshin arc

bleach fan 101
March 29, 2010, 05:05 AM
dunno bout a shiba but aint there another noble family not been shown yet im sure there somewhere written there is another noble family apart from Kuchki and Shiba. i think isshin is part of that family and will be shown in the isshin arc

there are 4 noble families and only 2 of them have been mentioned, another1 had been mentioned but it was in a filler so it doesn't count.

TwEeD
March 29, 2010, 06:40 AM
There were 5 noble families, Shiba fell out of grace and that made the 4 noble families as it is now. The 2 known are Kuchiki and Shihōin

Charlie
March 29, 2010, 03:58 PM
Yes thats is correct. Tite sensei mentioned in some interview.

@TwEeD - beat me to it.

Jamil2009
April 04, 2010, 02:50 AM
There were 5 noble families, Shiba fell out of grace and that made the 4 noble families as it is now. The 2 known are Kuchiki and Shihōin

Does this mean that there are two unknown noble families? Kinda confusing, I thought Shiba, Shihouin and Kuchiki were the first three and the fourth was still unknown. Now there's a fifth?

Charlie
April 04, 2010, 08:32 AM
From what I can remember, Shiba was the fifth. Plus there was one more. So yea there are two unknowns.

The known ones are the,

*Kuchiki
*Shihouin
xxx
xxx
*Shiba (no longer )

Xerneas
April 04, 2010, 09:00 AM
All the Noble Families were revealed. The other two are Omaeda and Kyoraku.

plorfils
April 04, 2010, 09:45 AM
I think ichigo is related to the spirit king or his father is a royal guard that could be why he hasn't said anything to him till now explains why his captains uniform is so different and why ichigo is so gifted if anything else aizen wouldn't waste his time if he's related to a reg noble family u haven't heard anything about the royal guard or the sprite king now may be the time

kkck
April 04, 2010, 12:29 PM
All the Noble Families were revealed. The other two are Omaeda and Kyoraku.

None of them are among the great noble families. They are nobles but not of the 4 great families.

Charlie
April 04, 2010, 04:36 PM
There was some debate over Kyorakus House being an official noble house but I don't remember it too well. I think Kira and Ukitake were from less noble houses. Meaning they're nobles but not from the top 4/5 houses.

Xerneas
April 04, 2010, 05:58 PM
None of them are among the great noble families. They are nobles but not of the 4 great families.

You sure? I could have sworn that Omaeda at least was revealed as a member of a Great House ages ago. And yeah Ukitake (and Soi Fon IIRC) were supposed to be from lower Houses. If you're right then that was one of my biggest misconceptions about BLEACH. -_-;

kkck
April 04, 2010, 08:51 PM
You sure? I could have sworn that Omaeda at least was revealed as a member of a Great House ages ago. And yeah Ukitake (and Soi Fon IIRC) were supposed to be from lower Houses. If you're right then that was one of my biggest misconceptions about BLEACH. -_-;

I am pretty sure about that. Omaeda is just a noble but not one from the noble houses. Dunno what level of nobility they belong too. Kyoraku was said to be middle or somewhat high -not sure where I read this though, perhaps databook-. Ukitake was from a low noble house as you mentioned. I am pretty sure the databook did say the only revealed noble houses are kuchiki and shihouin though. I think that can be found in the databook section.

Remodie
May 17, 2010, 05:30 PM
I think that Isshin might be a member of the Chiba clan,and kurosaki is Ichigo's mother's surname.

Byakuya said himself Ichigo resembles Kaein
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/56/10/

Delbi
May 17, 2010, 05:31 PM
I think that Isshin might be a member of the Chiba clan,and kurosaki is Ichigo's mother's surname.

Byakuya said himself Ichigo resembles Kaein
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/56/10/

Doubtful, Ichigo looks nothing like his father so I doubt his father would be part of that clan. It's more likely that his mother would be part of the clan.

Remodie
May 17, 2010, 06:14 PM
It was just a thought, i seriously doubt it now myself.... I forgot about the Chiba clan tattoo that Kaein, Ganju, and Kukaku had. He must be apart of another noble family because Byakuya said he was mistaken and Ichigo was not that (Kaein) man, he was related to another... he must have meant Isshin, and another noble family.

Kaiten
May 17, 2010, 08:05 PM
Ichigo, hair aside, is a dead ringer for Kaien. Isshin looks somewhat similar to Ganju. I definitely think their is a connection. Who knows, maybe the fall of the Shiba clan had something to do with Isshin fleeing Soul Society. Urahara claims Isshin abandoned being a shinigami 20 years ago (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/188/06/). If that were true the time frame would work for him to have left Soul Society after Kaien died. It would also allow for him to be young enough that Shinji did not know him. For how powerful he is he still could have become a Captain after the Vaizard left.

Gran Maestro
May 18, 2010, 03:12 AM
Ichigo, hair aside, is a dead ringer for Kaien. Isshin looks somewhat similar to Ganju. I definitely think their is a connection. Who knows, maybe the fall of the Shiba clan had something to do with Isshin fleeing Soul Society. Urahara claims Isshin abandoned being a shinigami 20 years ago (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/188/06/). If that were true the time frame would work for him to have left Soul Society after Kaien died. It would also allow for him to be young enough that Shinji did not know him. For how powerful he is he still could have become a Captain after the Vaizard left.

There is a problem: Rukia doesn't know Isshin.

Hystzen
May 18, 2010, 04:55 AM
you gota take appearances with a pinch of salt most mangas use templates to speed up drawing and kubo has admited using them recently....

ichgio looks like kaien yes but Ikkaku looks like a bald ichigo does that mean he related no.

plus dont you find it strange BOTH Ganju and Kukkaku didnt say anything about ichigo looking like Kaien or even notice :blink
even yoruchi has said nothing

Kaiten
May 21, 2010, 02:26 PM
Ichigo's resemblance to Kaien is deliberate. Rukia and Ukitake both note it. Oddly enough Ganju never says anything about it. The Ganju-Isshin resemblance is speculation on my part.

bleach fan 101
May 26, 2010, 06:34 AM
what i don't get is why didn't kukakku recognise Ichigo, she had long enough to see a resemblance in appearence and (possibly) ability

Kaiten
June 01, 2010, 03:43 PM
For plot reasons it needed to come out of Rukia's mouth first. She killed Kaien then gave Ichigo her power. Had Kukakku and Ganju said anything when they first met to much would have been said to soon. Ukitake did the foreshadowing.

Hystzen
June 01, 2010, 05:43 PM
For plot reasons it needed to come out of Rukia's mouth first. She killed Kaien then gave Ichigo her power. Had Kukakku and Ganju said anything when they first met to much would have been said to soon. Ukitake did the foreshadowing.

but neither kukakku or ganju said anything after kubo did the whole rukia regret dream.

i think there is no need for kubo to connect them with the shibas it wont add anything to the plot and we got enugh shibas already. i rather kurosakis just be the kurosakis or have them releated to a unknown family or royal guard ( which i assume kubo is heading towards)

Vespir
August 14, 2010, 06:17 PM
the real question is, is isshin kurosaki actually related to the shiba clan?
that's what i wanna know and i'm really curious about isshin kurosaki's past. i hope tite will do a special chapter on isshin's history

Lord.Strife
September 17, 2010, 01:53 AM
I can think of some lols if ichigo turns out to me the current head of the shiba clan. The lols would be when the clan is revived a marriage contract between shioin clan and the shiba clan if there is one might come back into effect. imagine the lols since youichi seems to only tease ichigo.

Tabaro Foka
September 24, 2010, 05:44 AM
Everithing is possible now.I hope we will see now in the new mini arc who clan were Isshin.Wow I really want to see Isshin's past family.This will be epic!:)

bleach fan 101
November 20, 2010, 05:23 PM
ok guys i've seen lots of hint to say that Ichigo may have a family in the SS (words and actions of Ganju for example)

i'd like to hear your theories about who (if anyone) is part of Ichigo's family and why

kkck
November 21, 2010, 07:44 PM
What words and actions from ganju? I guess it is never out of the realm of possibilities ishin has a family in SS though.

hopeandlight
November 29, 2012, 02:57 AM
and now we have
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/bleach/v53/c518/18.html
they are sorry they let ichigo go , uncle =isshin?

Kyodai Senkan Mora
November 29, 2012, 09:47 AM
For all we know, Ganju may have fond memories of his Uncle Isshin. If my theory on the Kurosaki name being made up, then Ganju would have no clue who Ichigo was.

Spot on prediction from the year 2006:mono....well done sir!!! well done!!

dex
November 29, 2012, 02:49 PM
wow...that too 5 years back :super:super