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LadyHatake
March 03, 2007, 06:10 PM
Okay, okay, I know, you're thinking "wtf, you're not GK!" Well, Phil's having some problems with the forums (He's having trouble posting, atm) so he asked me to post his comments for him. So, without further ado~!




http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3924/00yx9.png
My name is Uchiha Sasuke. You tried to take my body. Prepare to die.

Yo again guys. Heh, we sure suffered a long wait this week for this chapter, huh? At least until resident heroine Kylara came to our rescue and scanned it for us on Friday. Many thanks, Kylara! <3

At the risk of being called a freak (and I don't mind if you call me that as long as you don't throw sticks and stones at me too! xD ), this was a chapter that I actually anticipated all week... even to the point that I dreamed about it for two straight nights! What???

I'm not too sure what's up with that - I mean, was I that excited about the upcoming Orochimaru-Sasuke fight? Not to mention that I wasn't *that* impressed by the initial spoiler image that appeared early on. But the chapter itself, when it finally came out, didn't let me down at all - in fact, despite a minor detail here and there, I thought it was damn good!! But hey, hey, I'm getting ahead of myself, aren't I?...

Credits go to, of course, Kylara for the RAW, as well as Hisshouburaiken and Winterlion for coming out with the early translations, and CeZ and kokotas for the scanlation that I'll be using for this review, and Des for giving me a cool font to use for my header. I'd also like to thank all the script hunters and translators that help us out on a weekly basis in the Spoilers section, my fellow moderators for helping out with the wait for the RAWs, and all the members here for their great patience for the next chapter. It's all greatly appreciated!

Furthermore, Shannaro, the long-time Naruto HQ scanlation group, is looking for more cleaners to help them out, so if you're interested, be sure to contact either Terra (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=57), p1noypr1de (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5183), or RawS (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=16504). I also have to give Japflap and Eagle (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=235) serious props for being able to keep up with the series with their HQ scans on a weekly basis! Finally, Zarosaki just came out with an awesomely colored Chapter 287 (http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=16032.0) by Moespinel. Believe me, you don't want to miss out on that one!

Hope you have fun reading my review and I look forward to reading your replies!


* * * Gold Knight's Ten Comments on Naruto Chapter 344: Snake...! * * *

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6048/01rm8.png
You lack... Uchiha blood! Sorry!

1. Survival of the Fittest! Firstly, I just gotta say, SO much for my theory that Kishimoto would have had a line-up of covers ready for this arc. No cover this week. Kishimoto must be running out of cover design ideas! Anyway, right off the bat we get Sasuke trash-talking Orochimaru, saying that the reason he rebelled was because Orochimaru was now weaker than him. Due to that, in Sasuke's mind, there was no longer any need to sacrifice himself to the ol' snake anymore. After all, what good would it do to submit himself to somebody that he could take down?

But does that mean that Sasuke would have willingly given himself to Orochimaru if he did not feel as though he had gotten any stronger than him? Maybe he would have considered that as satisfactory penance if he did not succeed in getting any more powerful than Orochimaru, since that would mean he would have failed in getting any closer to surpassing Itachi?

Well, you can just imagine that Sasuke's had pretty darn good motivation for the last two years just to better himself, besides his elder brother! Compared to if Sasuke had decided to follow Naruto back to Konohagakure, where the comfortable surroundings and friends would probably have gradually wore down his burning desire for revenge... being with Orochimaru instead just fueled his desire to grow stronger if for no other reason than he was also literally fighting not just for his revenge, but also for his free will!

All things considered, seeing how Sasuke has Orochimaru so much on the ropes here, I can understand fully why he left his village.


http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9769/02mn3.png
Yo, my clan is teh ultimate, n00b!

2. Family Pride! Oh wow, humble Sasuke sure ain't. I was highly amused by Sasuke's words here to Orochimaru - reminded me a whole lot of some of his fans at NF who would always argue the "superiority of the Uchihas" against diehard fans of Uzumaki Naruto. ( Ah, the days of being a moderator there... >.> ) It was as though the extreme Sasutards started using their idol as their mouthpiece, heh.

However, while Sasuke's still fiercely independent after all, we all found out here that he isn't completely out of the woods as far as being "in the darkness." Not at all. What cost the devil his wings may also eventually happen to Sasuke as well - "Pride goeth before a fall," right? And while Sasuke's always been a bit smug in the past, I've never expected him to be so... well, blatantly arrogant here!

Orochimaru, even though he might be a vile conspirator, is still one of the highly respected Three Sannin, the "Legendary Three Ninja," and also somebody who was able to give Sasuke even more strength at one time. Most likely Orochimaru taught him how to be even more powerful over the timeskip, and yet the kid's talking to him like this! Granted, we find out exactly why Sasuke never had much respect for Orochimaru, which I'll get to in just a moment...

But before I do, there's one more thing that occured to me while I was reading. As similar as Itachi and Sasuke may be, I realized that there's a definite difference between the brothers right now, and I think we'll be seeing this contrast emphasized much more later in the story. What is it, you ask? Well, whereas Itachi had lost all respect for his own family to the point where he nearly destroyed the whole clan, Sasuke, on the other hand, certainly still has a HELLUVA lot of pride being an Uchiha!

Well, I suppose that's only natural, considering Sasuke is currently trying to avenge his whole family. If he had felt the same way as Itachi, he probably wouldn't have bothered, huh!


http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3618/03vm7.png
Oh crap, Sasuke-kun's comparing me to Itachi! Noes!

3. Familiarity Begets Contempt...! Okay, so we find out here exactly WHY Sasuke never had much respect for Orochimaru, which I did appreciate! In Sasuke's eyes, Orochimaru isn't that much different from his hated brother, Itachi, in that they will do anything to accomplish their objectives... even at the expense of other people's lives.

In Itachi's case, of course, he sacrificed his whole family. In Orochimaru's case... well, there's a pretty good reason he was banished from Konohagakure! Itachi may have destroyed one clan, but I'd be willing to bet that Orochimaru annihilated a good many families in his nefarious quest for immortality. Probably had a hand in killing Kimimaro's clan as well, just to get the kid to be his servant and eventual next body!

And there's absolutely no doubt that while Sasuke was spending the last two years and a half with Orochimaru and Kabuto, he came to discover a whole lot of things about the two that he definitely didn't like.

But though Sasuke may not have been good at hiding his distaste for them, he was at least able to convince them that he would stay with them... especially with his words to Naruto and Sakura a while ago. Maybe he also said them to demonstrate just how far he was willing to go to get his revenge. But I'm sure it still didn't sit too well with him that he had to spew such BS!

Not much else to say here really, just that I liked that we got an immediate answer to just exactly why Sasuke would rather go ahead and kill Orochimaru than just walk away from them without any kind of confrontation. Makes sense that if Sasuke would be relating the Sannin to his brother that he'd be seeing red!


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Hey now Sasuke-kun! This isn't what I meant by doin' it rough!

4. Bedroom Hijinks! Oh, man. What do you know? After all these months of joking about the nature of Sasuke and Orochimaru's relationship, we finally get back to them in actuality, and guess what?

They're fighting in Orochimaru's bed.

Kishimoto has got to have a twisted sense of humor. I just know it. Anyway, I liked that Sasuke didn't waste much breath on talking Orochimaru to death and just got to business quickly. Ouch, but that's gotta hurt, having the "energy sword" - or whatever it is - continue to go through Oro's wrists, almost crucifixing him to the wall. Gives me the willies to think about the pain that must've caused him.


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9767/05br7.png
Well, what zoo let YOU out?

5. Waking the Beast...! And now we come to the subject of what has so often haunted my dreams this past week. Orochimaru's true form revealed --- as a... pissed-off, gigantic, serpent-laden, white snake!? Crikey! Too bad Steve Irwin isn't around anymore, he'd have enjoyed this challenge...! Well, maybe not.

Apparently, though, keep in mind Orochimaru wasn't always like that - he seemingly experimented on himself over and over, all for the sake of prolonging his existence. Turning himself into something like an Ouroboros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros)... except he's not biting his own tail, yet, in order to achieve Plato's ideal of "a self-eating, circular being as an immortal perfectly constructed animal." Crazy loon.

Well, now we know at any rate what was up with Orochimaru being able to literally "pull himself back together" (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1750/v33ch294ukpage11za1.png) after being sliced in half by Four-Tailed Kyuubified Naruto. And also that Orochimaru's apparent 'Sen'nei Ta-Jaishu' (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4104/v33ch29011hd0.png) jutsu was in actuality just mere extensions of his true form. Now it all makes sense, eh? Heh, at that time it was becoming pretty obvious that Orochimaru was [i]something more than just human - we just didn't realize that he had turned himself into such a monster!

And we also now know what exactly transpired between Orochimaru and Genryuusai (http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3385/narutoch199p16ou5.png) as well. Obviously Orochimaru had indeed, literally, dived into his victim's body, and taken it over, leaving his previous body as just a hulkless corpse. And to think we had just thought it was just a spiritual take-over. Creepy.

As for the artistic design... I'm not too crazy about it. Suddenly I had a vision of the face of Kankurou's Karasu puppet (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6383/naruto12506gv4.png) on Orochimaru's head, on top of a similar huge tubular body made up of snakes. I think I would have preferred that Orochimaru's original head be left intact except perhaps a little more scaly-faced. Ah, well. It's Kishimoto's call, I suppose, and I guess he wanted to make Orochimaru look decidedly inhuman as an outward reflection of the beastly desires inside him. Hiss!


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Say pretty please with sugar on top.

6. Let The Battle Begin...! Well, just commenting on here just how convenient that katana certainly turned out for Sasuke here against Orochimaru and all the little serpents leaping out of his body in order to attack him. Perhaps that's the reason he decided to pick up a Kusanagi sword all along! Also, I just wonder, if these snakes are venomous at all... probably likely, since he was once paired up with Sasori in the Akatsuki. They must have poisoned quite a lot of opponents in their days together! So, one bite might mean life or death for Sasuke here, as it might paralyze him and render his body useless... a situation to avoid at all costs!

Another noteworthy detail here was Orochimaru's composure here. Definitely as not calm and collected as he was with Kakashi (http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/7297/naruto8702ai6.jpg), a couple of years ago, when he appeared at the Chuunin Exams. Back then, Kakashi was just a little mouse to Orochimaru. So was Sasuke, but now... Orochimaru, in attacking him here, almost seemed to act rashly and desperately, much like a cornered beast. "Giiiiiiiive me your body!" No taunting words, or anything like that. That tells me right there that Orochimaru's definitely afraid of Sasuke about right now.

Or was he just elated to have his prey appear in front of him? That the moment was before him to finally strike? Eh, probably not. He still probably would have been more playful, as he had once been with Anko (http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3734/naruto5014yn8.jpg) in the Forest of Death.


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9910/07bp4.png
Next he'll be reciting Shakespeare...!

7. The Snake's Curse...! Ever heard of the story of Adam and Eve? Heh, it's well-known literature and all, so I sure hope you have. But here's a little part that I bet not everybody remembers. According to that tale of woe, God subsequently cursed the crafty serpent for his part in deceiving Eve to sample the Forbidden Fruit.

As the animal directly responsible for the fall of men, it was then "doomed to crawl upon its belly in the dirt and be forever stepped upon."

Remind you of something? Yup, Sasuke's powerful words here, which seemed as though they were spoken by an ageless prophet. I don't know if Kishimoto was inspired by that Biblical scene or not, but these were some awfully powerful lines, dude! Some of the best in the series to date as Sasuke was quite clearly condemning Orochimaru even as he was preparing to defend himself against the snakes lunging hungrily at him.

Kishimoto must have had this poignant scene in mind all along when he decided to have Sasuke rebel against Orochimaru - it certainly was dramatic and memorable, and well, Sasuke was his favorite character design after all, I'm sure he wanted him to sound good, too. Spoken like a little genius and your usual run-of-the-mill intellectual, a definite contrast to what Sasuke's former blond teammate would have said (probably would've said something like "You suck, snake-man! Eat my shorts!")

But wait, Sasuke had more to say...


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4105/08mo2.png
So, wanna fly?

8. Talons of the Hawk...! So Sasuke considers himself a hawk, eh? Heh. I never could quite figure if these things on his back when he's in CS2 form were wings or actually talons, but either way, the line was certainly appropriate.

This scene, however, disappointed many readers, including yours truly. Sasuke in his CS2 form did not change significantly in design from when we last saw him like that (http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8453/narutoch232p0607jw9.png), so his overall look seemed almost downright bland here. I would have actually rather seen Sasuke fight Orochimaru the entire battle without having to resort to the powers of the curse seal Orochimaru himself bestowed on him. He was lookin' good already, and I'd think he would have had enough pride not to depend on such a gift from the same man he was currently trying to kill. Especially considering his speech about the Uchihas being the mightiest clan in the universe just a while ago.

Though I don't mind his look so much. I mean, I can see why Kishimoto chose to make CS2 Sasuke so grotesque-looking. Which is just to demonstrate how a hunger for revenge can transform somebody to be obviously less than their former self. If Sasuke was ever "cool" before, then he's not so "cool" now. If that's the case, I don't mind it, since it works just fine for story purposes.

What does bother me is that Orochimaru seemingly has no power over stopping him from using the curse seal. What's up with that?

Doesn't make a great deal of sense to me that Orochimaru would just willingly give power like the curse seals away like that without an ace up his sleeve (besides the hidden snakes), especially to somebody who he plans to dominate at some point. Remember what Sakon and Tayuya said (http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5485/naruto179p08dl7.png) about the seals usually turning its victims into Orochimaru's slaves? Even if Sasuke had escaped that somehow, I would still think Orochimaru would be able to deactivate the seal, or just plain taking it away, by sheer will, since it was, after all, his own power that he handed out. "He who giveth, taketh away," right?

But since we've gone this far and Orochimaru hasn't even taken any action towards stopping Sasuke by doing that, I sure hope he doesn't do it later. That would make the whole battle to this juncture seem ridiculously pointless, wouldn't it?


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1165/09pf3.png
Aww lil Oro, touching his very first snakeskin.

9. When It All Began... Hey wow, what's this? A flashback to the days of Chibi Oro? Hell, I sure wasn't expecting that. And here we find out exactly where Oro's love of snakes came from. Figures that that old pervert Sandaime would be somehow involved... I bet he wished he could just go back to that day and just told Orochimaru to "throw that filthy snake away" and call it "an omen of misfortune" instead of what he actually said, heh. Maybe then Orochimaru would haven't turned out the way he did!

Ah well, such an impressionable kid...! Who would've thunk it?

I also found it kinda funny that Sandaime here looked more like his son, which was recently revealed to be the late Asuma, of course. Facial structure stronger, hair spikier, more of a robust persona, and that mischevious smile. Our mangaka's obviously trying to make their family bonds a little more obvious now, huh? Wonder if Kishimoto isn't paving the way for Konohamaru to grow up looking a bit more like both his predecessors.


http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/6021/10st6.png
Don't you just want to give him a hug?

10. Not Evil? So, looking like Oro's not one of these brats that's been evil since birth, after all. I like that. I've never believed that anyone has been corrupted right from the beginning. I think Kishimoto feels like that as well, in showing that even Orochimaru wasn't always bad, y'know?

And for the first time in the entire series, I actually felt for Oro here. Just good writing again - showing how the loss of Orochimaru's parents might have led him to having grand dreams of becoming an immortal.

Of course, this is where Orochimaru fans have reason to worry. Flashbacks - ever since little ol' Haku tearfully recounted how he was "saved" by Zabuza, to the time of Asuma's death - in the Naruto series have never been particularly good to their feature characters.

But in this case, I think Orochimaru will be safe. We're just learning a little bit more about him right now as we did with Tsunade back when she remembered her boyfriend and brother. And anyway, it's about time we learned more about a villain that's been with us since almost the beginning.

I think that's all. But I'm not guaranteeing anything, of course, heh.

RATING: 5 of 5 - Excellent drama. Good art, and very memorable dialogue. Kishimoto gave us another very nice chapter, with plenty of revelations, such as Orochimaru's true form and Sasuke's post-timeskip CS2 look, and some thrilling action, even though it was brief. A flashback that potentially will tell us more about Orochimaru in the coming chapters. All in all, despite my complaint about the usage of the curse seal without seemingly any conditions, I did enjoy this chapter enough to give it another 5 rating. Three weeks in a row, folks! That's pretty good news.

Predictions: Most likely an entire chapter dedicated to exploring how Orochimaru started out to where he was eventually banished from Konohagakure. We'll probably be getting a glimpse at Team Sandaime in action. That would be fun.

RATING ON SHIPPUDEN EPISODE 004: 4.5 of 5 - The battle between Deidara and Gaara didn't disappoint me. It was fun to watch them battle it out in the skies. I don't have any more complaints about how they decided to animate that fight at night. Animation, while not stellar like the typical animated movie, was just good enough that it satisfied me (especially compared to previous episodes I've seen in the series). Gaara and Deiara, I think, were both done very well. The ending to the second bell test was excellently done, too. So, I enjoyed it.

Another fun chapter! Let's hope it keeps going.


http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9461/finyp7.png
Comment, or I'll bite your head off! Hiss!

kadoman
March 03, 2007, 06:28 PM
Ahhh...GK...

*weeps*

That is your finest review yet. I laughed, I cried, I gasped! Haha. Well, I am a Sasutard. I would do all that. :amuse

What can I say? I agree with absolutely everything you said. And I haven't got anything to add.

Only thing I would say is not to be too disgruntled about Oro seemingly having no control right now. I'm sure that's what Kishi wants us to think. I still think he's got a chance at survival. Though I keep changing my mind. :notrust

I will be quite upset if he dies. Over the years, I've come to like Oro as the villain and will miss him. I actually want him to survive, though I don't know why.

I also really felt for him this chapter. I thought it was heartbreaking watching him get verbally bitch slapped by Sasuke. Again, I'm not sure why I felt that way. I just did. He makes me sad now. I just pity him.

I pity Sasuke in a way as well. To me, it seems obvious that Kishi is building his favourite character up for a mighty fall. He's gonna put that kid through the wringer before he redeems him - wait and see. Dammit Naruto! Go and save his butt! Save it I say!

Excellent review! :D

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to say I totally agree with you about Sasuke's dialogue. Very hard hitting, I thought, and some of the most memorable in the entire series. Props to Kishi for saving that one up.

sahugani
March 03, 2007, 06:45 PM
sorry to hear about the forum problem. anyway, the review is superb as always. i'll probably be back tonight or in the morning after i finish my OP review (plus other stuff) to comment on this point by point.

Gold Knight
March 03, 2007, 07:17 PM
Actually a server issue it would seem. Just talked to our server guy, and I can post again now, and he's on the case at the moment. Thanks Katy for posting my review for me <333

@ Kado - glad you liked it so much :D And yeah, I expected Orochimaru to be somehow more... cunning and ready than this.

@ sahugani, thanks and looking forward to your thoughts :)

glasskatana
March 03, 2007, 07:51 PM
I have a few things to say.
1.)I LOVED that "though the snake dreams of soaring through the sky..." line. I thought it was great writing. :D

2.)perhaps it is possible that Sandaime was saying the thing about the snake to Orochimaru because as he said before "malice and ambition were always hidden in those eyes" Perhaps Sandaime thought a little snake story would give hope to young Orochimaru and kill those evil intentions hidden just beneath the surface.

3.)When Oro pulled himself back together in that fight scene with 4-tailed Naruto, I think that was the clone that Oro spit out of his mouth, not his true self, and thus, not a power granted by his true form. Additionally, I think the Sen'nei Ta-Jaishu is just a jutsu. After all, we've seen Anko randomly sudden snakes from her hands in chapter 50 during her fight with Orochimaru and she clearly does not have a true snake body form.

4.)And while we're on the subject of Orochimaru and Anko, I find it quite aggravating that Orochimaru can't deactivate the cursed seal. :notrust During his fight with Anko, all he had to do was a little seal and Anko collapsed.
Though, I would find it perfectly poetic that, if and when Sasuke kills Orochimaru, he finds himself unable to use the cursed seal anymore, and thus, not near the strength needed to kill Itachi.

5.) If Sasuke could look at himself in a mirror, I think he would realize how similar to Itachi he's become. Leaving the village to gain more power and exceed his "limitations." Killing the person who taught him everything he knows. Itachi may have been testing his limits by killing his whole clan, and Orochimaru may have been using "discovering the truth behind existance" as an excuse to play with people's lives, but in the end, Sasuke is using "revenge" in the same way. To gain a power he couldn't gain with family...with friends. Let's examine the parallels. Little Sasuke asks Itachi why he killed the whole clan. Itachi responds "to test my limits and to gain power" Now, if someone were to ask Sasuke why he left the village, betrayed everyone he knew, endangered the lives of several genin, a chuunin, and in the end, all of Konoha by leaving and his only response would be "to gain power and revenge." Sasuke is just a single best-friend-murder away from being his brother's clone.

And as a little edit note. The flashbacks we got with Tsunade were about her brother and boyfriend if I remember correctly. Not her husband and son.

Great comments as always GKsr, and let's hope for an even MORE exciting chapter next week. :thumbs[br]Posted on: March 03, 2007, 04:46:26 PM_________________________________________________I almost forgot to say, that I would like to give myself a pat on the back. I have long suspected that Sasuke would have some kind of connection to a falcon or a hawk or an eagle due to the fact that in many covers (or at least one in particular) he is riding on a bird.

Gold Knight
March 03, 2007, 08:04 PM
And as a little edit note. The flashbacks we got with Tsunade were about her brother and boyfriend if I remember correctly. Not her husband and son.


Fixed ^^; (Will reply to rest of your post later, concentrating on Art Contest atm xD ) Thanks :D

MadDog
March 03, 2007, 08:16 PM
Great summary as always.

1. Sasuke must have made a Gai-senei style self imposed rule that he'd have to become stronger than Orochimaru in 2.5 years, or lose his body.

2. Who'd have thought the biggest Uchiha fanboy is actually, Sasuke? Seriously though, the trash talk may have been part of a strategy to get the normally calm and confident Orochimaru all riled up to the point where he might make a few mistakes or create an opening.

4. "They're fighting in Orochimaru's bed." You had me cracking up with this.

6. This is a different Orochimaru (in terms of both form and composure) than we've seen before. He may be less effective in the fight if he let's Sasuke's trash talk get to him.

10. I definetly agree that Orochimaru didn't start out life as an evil being. His ambitions, probably brought on by his past experiiences, are probably what led him down that path.

As for next chapter, I'[d like to see more Orochimaru flashbacks as well. During the fight, It'll be interesting to see if Orochimaru can cough up the Kusanagi sword from any of the smaller snakes, vs. his new 80's hair band style snake head.

Toda350Z
March 03, 2007, 08:17 PM
GK, you do have a way with words on these reviews.... very well put.

I thought this was a great chapter and really liked the quotes Sasuke used.
It is kind of irritating that Sasuke is soooo cocky though.... cockiness always leads to a letdown from my experiences, and he has one coming soon... perhaps after this fight though.

Seeing Sandaime as young was nice too, i also forsee Konohamaru looking the same as an adult.
Orochimaru will survive this somehow, even though i woul to see him as a snake-kabob for Sasuke's Katon technique.

However Sasuke seemingly has yet to kill anyone while Itachi and Orochi have killed more than you can count... so he is not yet at their level of evil.
Besides you know Orichimaru deserves a rather nasty death due to his evil.... so it is only a matter of time.

yeste
March 03, 2007, 08:20 PM
Great review GK!!! :)

Hitsugaya_333
March 03, 2007, 08:35 PM
Such excellence can only be expected from MH's Taichou.

YozoraVII
March 03, 2007, 09:15 PM
A few comments:

-Sasuke isn't Kishimoto's favourite character, Naruto is. In that interview, he said Sasuke is his favourite character to draw (something everybody ignores), because he finds it difficult, so it's a challenge for him. In every other interview I've read, he said Naruto (his staff and himself both consider Kishimoto to be synonymous with Naruto). My memory might be a bit fuzzy, but someone would have to find explicit evidence to retort. Pazuzu backs me up on this.

-You're right about how Sasuke said he's better than Orochimaru, then he uses CS2? GET REAL!!!

(Excuse the lack of sentence structure, I don't have much time.)
-There's no doubt in my mind that Orochimaru will be the victor, for a few reasons. It gives reason for Sasuke to allow himself to be rescued by Naruto, and with Kakashi there to flash his Mangekyou Sharingan which Itachi (though he believed it himself at the time) made Sasuke firmly believe is only obtainable by killing his best friend, it's all the more to make him say WTF, have an emo moment and follow through with the rescue, apology in mind. Also, if Sasuke wins, it means the death of Orochimaru which is kind of untimely. Orochimaru's death should be reserved by Jiraiya, plus it seems like Orochimaru has more backstory to develop. Futhermore, besides the Sound 4 evidence with the curse seal control, AND Orochimaru's mention of foreseeing this, there's also the time Anko fought him and her seal caused her a great deal of pain, pretty much restraining her. Then there's Kabuto, he must have something planned considering that zoomed face shot of him we saw. Also remember when Naruto was fighting Orochimaru? Kabuto's mention of "this is more of a fight between monsters". Also consider the strength of Kyuubi Naruto, Orochimaru had no problem. Orochimaru also said Sasuke was more difficult to handle, which seemed to imply Orochimaru could handle him. Think Sasuke really improved THAT much since then?

-Oh, and the Hawk thing. I still believe Yasha's Uchiha Tengu theory 100%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengu "hawk-like beaks of tengu demons"

Gold Knight
March 03, 2007, 10:07 PM
@ GKjr - where is the "malice and ambition" in Orochimaru's eyes in these pages? I tend to doubt that he always had them (despite Sandaime saying 'always')... I think Sandaime was just trying to be consoling there.

You're right in that Anko did exhibit a similar snake-conjuring jutsu, but I don't know if Anko could ever be able to summon as many snakes out of her sleeves as Orochimaru did there against Yamato. I do think that was Orochimaru himself, not his clone, that Naruto split in twain, but I have no proof, of course.

Agreed on being aggravated by the whole curse seal thing. Very annoying. But I suppose we can just attribute it to Sasuke's willpower being stronger. Apparently, according to the Kyuubi, Sasuke also has powerful 'malice' of his own...

Heh, I still think that Sasuke is doing things a bit differently from Itachi right now. Though, you could have been right at one point, Sasuke was indeed hellbent on avenging his clan at the cost of everybody else around him, but that was before his battle with Naruto. I think over the last two years, he's had time to think about things a little differently, especially after watching how Orochimaru and Kabuto work. He's already very conscious of not becoming just like his brother, and we're seeing results in that he's not killing people even if they are his enemies. Right now, I think he is a little bit more respectable than Itachi in how he does things, and for that he probably owes Naruto a great deal for making him 'see the light,' even indirectly. Of course, all this is a matter of opinion for now.

Thanks for the comments!

@ Maddog Hayate - glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for reading ^^

@ Toda350Z - agreed about Sasuke being at the very least redeemable. Glad you liked the review.

@ Јесте или Није - thanks :)

@ Hitsugaya_333 - lol, now you guys are just getting plain flattering. Thanks all the same :D

@ auvixa - You're right. My mistake. I mean, I remember that once Kishimoto said in the early goings that Naruto was his favorite character because he could relate a lot to his clumsiness and goofiness, that he was always a bit of a troublemaker when he was a child too. But at a later point I had thought that Kishimoto changed to Sasuke, but you're right, it was just the design, not the whole character. I'll edit it a bit, thanks for correcting me.

I'm not so sure, actually, that Orochimaru will emerge the victor anymore. It's rather obvious that he'll need a new body now, and if Sasuke was to be defeated, wouldn't that mean that he'd have to give up his body right then? I don't know that Orochimaru will die as a result of this battle. Whether it's just Orochimaru escaping or Kabuto interfering, I think this battle will end in a stalemate with Sasuke taking his leave for good - perhaps beaten up, poisoned, or something like that, but I don't think anybody will die as a result of this battle.

Though I have to say, I wonder if Kabuto will actually let Orochimaru take his body as an alternative. I was thinking about that last night how Kabuto may have offered his body to Orochimaru before, but then went and had some bodies prepared for him instead of himself - almost as though he was being a bit insincere. I don't think he's actually prepared to sacrifice himself to Oro now. That'd be interesting. And yeah, I think Kabuto already knew that Orochimaru was a monster back then.

I think Orochimaru actually had some problems against Kyuubi Naruto though. Right at the end, he was starting to be exhausted in that body - though I suppose he could have just left his body and continued on fighting.

I do think Sasuke has improved a lot though. In Naruto's consciousness, he was able to "shoo" the Kyuubi away with just a hand. That was kind of a "WTF" moment if I ever saw one.

Nice theory, heh. That does sound like that's what Kishimoto was inspired by.

Thanks for coming by and commenting. Hope to see more work from Inane soon ^^

CupofDice
March 03, 2007, 10:30 PM
2. Yeah when I first read this I thought Sasuke was giving respect to his brother, saying that he was the most elite Uchiha, that he was the 'extent' of Uchiha power, especially since these clans judge themselves by their strongest and Itachi is 'stronger' than Orochi, but I guess it's like you said, he was just talking about himself :eyeroll.

4. Sasuke looked like a ballerina there. I agree, Kishi knows EXACTLY what he is doing.

5. I love this. I thought we would never get an explanation on his abilities. A bit like Tsunade's slug Katsuyu. Oh, and about Anko summoning the snakes, well Orochi probably did the same experiment on her. It could have been before himself for that matter, or maybe Anko's is just a summoning???

7. I thought of Air Gear :tem.

8. I am with auvixa on the tenju theory. I think the seals just brought out Sasuke's 'potential' or something like that.

Hopefully you are right, and we get Team Sandaime in action. I think Orochi screwed up by going into snake form since he can't do hand seals (he did make such a big deal about that in part 1 after all). I think that's why he needs a body, he is no better than a bijuu in that form, but then again he probably had no choice. Either way this fight should be good.

Great comments as always GK. :smile-big

kiddo7
March 03, 2007, 11:08 PM
Geart chapter, great review, Just as I have come to expect from you.
This week however I asm not able to show any great enthusiasm or excitement because my desktop just died horribla and I have been working on rcovering it all day today and I still have quite a job cut out for tomorow. Anyway, enough about me...

The only thing I will coment on now is the curse seal issue.
Was it ever inplied that there is another upgrade to it after level two? All the information we had on the curse seeal seemed to imply that level two was its final stage, so why would that change just because 2.5 years pass? Or was there a reason to believe that it's appearance would change? I don't know, maybe it is only me that is so unimaginativee that I do not make assumtions if I am not given overt and ample hints to base them on.

p.s. If I am sounding a bit antagonistic please disregard it as frustration over having to deal with my computer problems. It is in now way directed at anyone that might read my post.

RaZe
March 03, 2007, 11:39 PM
I think that hawk-boy may be underestimating the snake. (http://www.jwildlifedis.org/cgi/content/abstract/30/4/616)

excellent review as always.

anyway, i noted a scene where sasuke says that current oro is just a shadow of his former self. possible foreshadowing of a return to his "original body". ^^ what do you think?

venicia777
March 04, 2007, 02:52 AM
Subarashii comments-- i love them. I will come back and post more comments. BUt for now i will quote what i wrote in the 344 discussion thread a while before your comments were posted. which i think is a relevant response for this thread especially for those who may wish Oro to lose and/or die.



The way kishi keeps elevating Sasuke at every turn of the series and the current theme of the new surpassing the old --- he may actually let sasuke win this one. Probably even without Kabuto's interference.With the result that Oro may not die.



As i have already stated prior to this post, i dont see this happening (oro losing). Yet with the way Kishi's current previews keep happening as they were told-- Oro may be in for it.



Although i dont know where the story may be headed if Oro goes or gets defeated, the fact that ORO deserves every bit of what he is getting right now is just total satisfaction for me. He killed his own sensei-- SARUTOBI sandaime Hokage. And uses people like trash. and he is an elitist.



why not Sasuke pay him back- the plate fully served. Used him (oro) like he did others, get what he wanted, and is throwing him out like he is trash. THe sweet impudence i will say. Oro an elitist, always preferring to train geniuses- well good for him. He got the most proud elitist of them-- and what it is to be at the end of his ridicule and debasing. A prideful genius elitist who believes his clan is the god of all shinobi is the best insult and punishment Kishi can heap up on Oro.


And for Oro who uses and kills people like they were experimental dummies-- the avenger is in town. Oro's tactics as implied by sasukes flashback parallels itachis so much. If Sasuke is to be an avenger why not start from Oro- the perfect target of his own curse seal jutsus (the irony if that happens).


For me-- anything goes- be it Oro winning or Sasuke wiping his ass to smithereens.

vick86
March 04, 2007, 03:01 AM
I believe Oro is going to die. Like was predicted by akatsuki in the last page of part 1. The fact that we're seeing flashbacks only confirms that believe. Also Kishi is not going to do another Oro destroying Konoha arc and without Sasuke he'll never learn all the techniques in the world. Meaning that when Sasuke leaves (poisenod most likely) Orochimaru's part in this story is over and once your part is over you die. Simple as that.

venicia777
March 04, 2007, 03:10 AM
I believe Oro is going to die. Like was predicted by akatsuki in the last page of part 1. The fact that we're seeing flashbacks only confirms that believe. Also Kishi is not going to do another Oro destroying Konoha arc and without Sasuke he'll never learn all the techniques in the world. Meaning that when Sasuke leaves (poisenod most likely) Orochimaru's part in this story is over and once your part is over you die. Simple as that.


a flashback can be what you say it leads to-- but not every flashback has resulted in death. Tsunade had a flashback when it was her time to be on the stage-- the critical moment to reaffirm her long lost believes and the choice to protect Konohagakure. When Jiraiya's stage is erected i expect the same thing to happen.

fOR now, it is Oros stage. A very critical moment in his development as a villain and his survival-- as such this flashback is definately required. it doesnt necessarily Oro is gonna have it.

deathshadow25
March 04, 2007, 03:45 AM
I would LOVE to see some team sarutobi in action

I was thinking that Orochimaru might have startedr esearching immortality so he can see his parents one more time, but over time it evolved into this power thing. If thats the case he really has my sympathy,

mageofdeath
March 04, 2007, 03:45 AM
Hi GK, loved the comments as always, keeps me goin til the next raw day, but I completely agree about feeling sad for Oro in this chapter, isn't it funny how the supposed good guy came off looking like a villain in this chapter?
and I'm probably wrong about this but

is still one of the highly respected Three Sennin, the "Legendary Three Ninja,"
I thought that they were the sannin ie san = 3 nin = ninja...
oh and I disagree about oro living, he's gonna have to die at this point, by revealing his true form, I believe he's lost his humanity and Kishi has not been kind to Unhuman like characters to this point, I mean he killed off one of the koolest characters so far in sasori for being a meat stump, and hidan, and kakuzu had no chance for being a big ass spaghetti and meatball...lol...

*edit*
one last bit of irony, without that curse seal this fight would be over, so who's the curse really for in this case...

vick86
March 04, 2007, 03:59 AM
I'm not basing my theory that Oro is going to die on that flashback but on the fact that his part in the story is going to be over after this arc. The flashback doesn't mean he's going to die but it is hint that something major is going happen to him soon. Also letting Orochimaru live would be a bad choice at this point in the series since it would slow the pace of the story down when it needs to move on with Akatsuki and Itachi and not look back on the good old days.

On a sidenote I also think Kishi is drawing parallels between Naruto and Sasuke here. Naruto has to surpass Kakashi in order to get closer to Sasuke while Sasuke himself has to surpass Orochimaru to get closer to Itachi.

Ps. good point mageofdeath about Oro true form. Let's recap we have a flashback, we see his true form and his part in the story over. If that's not a sign that he's going to die than I don't know what is.

chvis002
March 04, 2007, 10:02 AM
Okay, first of all, WOAH OMGWTF :faint awsome chapter, but that which was the most chocking for me was when I read page 05. Why? I got drunk last week some days after I read 343 and when i was about to sleep it hit me like a smack in the face, what if Itachi didn't kill his clan to measure his strenght and it was all a lie. Now if you look at page 05 at frame 2 Sasuke says "why", on frame 3 there's a paus as if Itachi is thinking and on frame 4 he speaks and perhaps tell Sasuke a lie. Something that may confirm my crazy thought that night. What I believe Itachis reasone was is so wack that I don't intend to reveal it here.

Anyways, to the comments

1: Sasuke rocks!

2: Sasuke is awfully full of himshelf and doesn't rock anymore :(

7: It sure was a cool line but i don't get what it does in Naruto that is based of something that's not even remotely christian.

Prediction: Doesn't the text at the side on last page say that "the next round will conclude the battle" so hopfully there will be some more fighting. But flashbacks will also be nice. I wonder if this will turn out like when we got to know Sasukes background when he fought Naruto.

I don't have much more to say, you pretty much said it all in your rewiev. Great as ever! :thumbs

SilveryShadows
March 04, 2007, 11:03 AM
Don't have much to say as of now.

Orochimaru's 3 rows of teeth is creepy though. And his face.

Curse seal, I agree with.

Sasuke's arrogance.. makes me laugh.

What I had thought about this chapter, you've already discussed, so.
Good review as always!

arslan
March 04, 2007, 12:31 PM
great review GK and i agree with you that oro wasn't just evil at birth and he chose to be that way, which makes him worse i guess. the point when he listens about immortality from third is when he decides to pursue it and i find those pages very insightful. anyways, a job well done GK

ibra87
March 04, 2007, 01:55 PM
Just a few things that crossed my mind while reading your review:

1. I agree with you, 5 out of 5. I don't care if there is a good story, drama, action or whatever in a chapter as long as it gets me all hyped up which this one did not fail at.


2. 'Sen'nei Ta-Jaishu', is it really a result of having such a body as Orochimaru's? That would be the logical answer, but what about Anko? She used the jutsu (http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/7069/nar6510ea7.jpg) too, so does that mean she became a snake too? Take a look here (http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/9827/nar6513eq0.jpg). "Ninpou! Double Snake assassination no jutsu" which means Anko has become a snake too.

3. I too felt for Orochimaru. When he asked Sandaime when he could see his parents again Sandaime said "I don't know". Possible reason for Orochimaru to start inventing revival no jutsus? Perhaps he just lost his way at some point and forgot his real intentions and started to go after being the ultimate being by knowing every existing jutsu.

4. Looking at the old CS2 Sasuke and this one seemed pretty funny. He seemed like a silly monster in a kid's kit (credits goes to kado for this word >.>) now that we've seen him in a grown up costume.

5. Here's a crack-theory (or is it >_>): Orochimaru loses in the next chapter(s) and Sasuke is the victor. Life goes on, Naruto completes his Jutsu, Sai covers his belly, Kakashi stops thinking about how he's surpassed etc. until the point where Sasuke gets to face his brother. When that happens he activates CS2, but he is still no match for Itachi. His body starts hurting but he chooses to still fight and all of a sudden Orochimaru takes over Sasuke's will (meh). Then Orochimaru beats Itachi and Naruto Narutofies Sasuke's will back and sends the cursed seal to kingdom come. Or even better, finishes Sasuke once and for all :nuts

And thanks once again for these great comments GK. It makes a chapter feel a tad better.

sabyr
March 04, 2007, 02:20 PM
"My name is Uchiha Sasuke. You tried to take my body. Prepare to die."

I love that line. Though not many people would see what it is making fun of most likely.

Anyways, great review! I didn't like this chapter at first but after reading it over then looking at your review I appreciated it a bit more.


...but what about Anko? She used the jutsu too, so does that mean she became a snake too? Take a look here. "Ninpou! Double Snake assassination no jutsu" which means Anko has become a snake too.

Wow, your right. Maybe he did experiments on her before himself to see if he could survive such a thing? Maybe she was the successful one and he had been working on it all along and that's why the other people died.

Gold Knight
March 04, 2007, 02:49 PM
@ CupofDice - Nope, I don't think Sasuke would willingly praise Itachi, since he turned his back on his clan. At least I didn't think so here >_> And lol @ ballerina Sasuke. Nice observation on Orochimaru needing bodies to be able to perform jutsus, I never thought about that. Thanks :)

@ kiddo7 - No, I haven't heard of a lvl 3 curse seal, but doesn't mean that it can't be done. And you didn't sound antagonistic :amuse

@ RaZe - lol! Good one. And I don't think Orochimaru's original body is intact - remember his Akatsuki ring was on top of a detached hand? I think that was the remnants of his original body.

@ venicia777 - heh, I agree with you. Oro is definitely getting what was coming to him for trying to manipulate kids with the intention of eventually taking their bodies for himself.

@ vick86 - flashbacks, as venicia777 said, doesn't always mean that they're going to die. Tsunade didn't when the flashbacks started about her (though she sure had a close call.) As for Orochimaru's part in this story, as I've said, I don't think it will be over after this arc. He's been around too long, it would truly be anticlimatic for him to meet his end here. Not to mention I think another reunion is probably going to happen for all the three Sennin at a later point.

@ deathshadow25 - yeah Team Sandaime FTW, heh. It does look as though Orochimaru started out his quest with that intention in mind, but I guess somewhere he lost sight of his goals. Happens.

@ mageofdeath - clarified it with somebody, and you're right, Sannin is what I should have said. It seems that 'Sennin' is something only Jiraiya says and he's the only one with the 'Sennin' tag in the Naruto series ('Toad Sennin,' 'Ero-Sennin'), even though there's no real equivalent for it in the English language, closest would be 'sage'... seems like it's meaning something like unworldly hermit, with a bit of religious connotation to it... so I'll edit what I said and change it to Sannin. Guess I did get confused there because of the similar spellings. Thanks for pointing that out.

And it would be ironic, yes, if Orochimaru allowed somebody with a curse seal he himself put it on there to kill him.

@ chvis002 - I think Itachi was just being annoyingly ominous in not answering immediately, heh. Thanks!

@ SilveryShadows - thanks! And yeah, I can see Sasuke saying, grandma, you got big teeth... well, maybe not 'grandma...'

@ arslan - yeah, Oro chose his path down the road to darkness. thanks.

@ ibra87 - as I already said in other post, I think Anko was using a normal jutsu, but Oro used far more snakes than Anko against Yamato... but *shrugs* I don't know, it just makes more sense to me now that Oro could hide so many snakes within himself. That's all I really was saying.

That IS a crack theory >___>

@ sabyr - Heh, seen Princess Bride too? Glad you liked the review.

vick86
March 04, 2007, 03:08 PM
GK what do you think Oro will do after this arc asumming he survives. Because I don't see anything that hasn't been done yet (destroying Konoha, sannin fight) or just doesn't make a compelling story. (Oro chasing after Sasuke in order to get his body would be quite pointless).

Toad Sage
March 04, 2007, 03:46 PM
Excellent review GK, I agree with you on all counts. Although I might have said a bit more about Orochimaru's closing scene, as I think it was the first time we've seen some good emotional act 1 type of material in a while. Personally, it has completely inverted my impression of Orochimaru. Now I see him as this tragic, lost child wandering through time looking for his parents. I hope Sasuke doesn't kill him :(

manu
March 04, 2007, 04:20 PM
Excellent review GK, I agree with you on all counts. Although I might have said a bit more about Orochimaru's closing scene, as I think it was the first time we've seen some good emotional act 1 type of material in a while. Personally, it has completely inverted my impression of Orochimaru. Now I see him as this tragic, lost child wandering through time looking for his parents. I hope Sasuke doesn't kill him :(




Thats a little extreme don't you think? Just because his parents died and he ran into a dead snake skin doesn't give you an excuse to be a pedophile and a mass murderer.

Sasuke murder him so we can get moving with the story and you can get revenge on your brother! Think about it, what other character would be a better warm up to killing Itachi then Orochimaru. And don't tell me you don't want Sasuke to kill Itachi.

Gold Knight
March 04, 2007, 04:46 PM
GK what do you think Oro will do after this arc asumming he survives. Because I don't see anything that hasn't been done yet (destroying Konoha, sannin fight) or just doesn't make a compelling story. (Oro chasing after Sasuke in order to get his body would be quite pointless).


Orochimaru could re-join the Akatsuki. We aren't exactly sure of why exactly he left the organization, but I wouldn't be surprised if he decided that he would help them again if he saw it as his only way to get Sasuke back.

Or at least he'd be following Sasuke until he fought Itachi, and collect whatever was left from the battle.



Excellent review GK, I agree with you on all counts. Although I might have said a bit more about Orochimaru's closing scene, as I think it was the first time we've seen some good emotional act 1 type of material in a while. Personally, it has completely inverted my impression of Orochimaru. Now I see him as this tragic, lost child wandering through time looking for his parents. I hope Sasuke doesn't kill him :(


Yeah, I agree that it was a good emotional act and hope to see more about Oro next week!

But at the same time I sure agree with manu, whatever kind of childhood Oro may have had at one point, he sure has committed too many atrocities and I don't think he will ever be that little kid again. I'm just interested in how Orochimaru became who he is now.

Toad Sage
March 04, 2007, 04:48 PM
I have thought it about, which is why I wrote what I wrote. There are a myriad of characters in literature who are either redeemed entirely or portrayed sympathetically, despite being cast as a story's villain.

Maybe I haven't thought of it though, perhaps there was another reason for including a sentimental scene of a young boy longing to meet his reborn parents in the midst of a battle. Maybe the point was to show how super cool Sasuke is for stopping pedophyles and murderers as a preamble to beating the super mega bad guy Itachi! I'm just pretty thoughtless, I suppose, I'm glad you pointed that out to me, Manu.

EDIT: Your post came up as I was in the middle of posting mine, GK. I agree Orochimaru won't be that child again, but that's exactly why I'm sympathetic toward him. I think bringing that contrast to light is exactly what Kishimoto intended with that scene. I also feel it was pulled off rather effectively, because the last thing I would have expected from Orochimaru's character was to discover that his quest for immortality was motivated by something so innocent. It was a shocking scene to be juxtaposed to a battle. Again, it really recalled for me the moments in Naruto act 1 where Kishimoto would balance an intense action scene with a very personal flashback, so I really liked it.

Gold Knight
March 04, 2007, 05:01 PM
True. I did appreciate that Kishimoto didn't just leave us not knowing more about why Orochimaru became what he was (something he DID with Hidan... for now.)

Toad Sage
March 04, 2007, 05:28 PM
Yah, but Orochimaru is more intrinsic to the story than Hidan was. You compare Orochimaru to Itachi, or point out how Sasuke seemingly makes this comparison. Well, if Sasuke's impression of Orochimaru is accurate, i.e. he and Itachi are similar, then information we obtain from Orochimaru can in some sense be used to understand Itachi.

Orochimaru, like Itachi, wants to explore the depths of his ability with his existence and has sacrificed a great deal in furtherance of this pursuit. To find out that, at least in Orochimaru's case, this all began with a childhood desire to reunite with his parents, one can only imagine what events conspired to lead Itachi to make the choices he has made. I think in some respects those last few important pages can be read in this manner.

Last, I think it is impossible to moralize in the Naruto universe. Orochimaru is not a pedophyle, but he is certainly a murderer-and so is Naruto, Kakashi, and Shikamaru as we have seen. Despite Naruto's noble intentions early on to be different than Zabuza in the waveland arc, we see him making his way through the ninja world in much the same way as Zabuza and other ninja do-learning jutsu, solving his problems with violence, etc. Perhaps Kishi is trying to say with this that altruistic notions cannot survive in a world of ninja. I certainly feel that is the case, based on how I've observed the characters, and Orochimaru's graveyard scene only emphasizes this perspective.

So, for me at least, I have a hard time seeing why it's any less villainous for Yondaime to murder a frightened Rock-nin than it is for Orochimaru to settle a score with his old master. Each had something at stake and each had the power to manifest their objectives. In the cutthroat world of shinobi, it seems this kind of behavior is very common, and largely justified. Ninja's don't deliver groceries-they steal, kill, spy, and occassionally make soup noodles with rasengan :P

Gold Knight
March 04, 2007, 05:47 PM
Well, Orochimaru served nobody but himself - Yondaime served his own country and people. There's a definite difference in the reasons why they did what they did.

I also don't know about Naruto always solving his problems with violence, nor about your idea that it's impossible to moralize in the Naruto universe. Naruto doesn't solve everything with blind violence, or he would have never converted Neji and Gaara to his side. He also attempts to emphasize with others, as he did with Sasuke. And to Konohagakure, at least I believe honor is still something that exists in Naruto, and also the need to protect life and future generations, as we learned with the willingness of Kakashi to let the next generation take over. And because of Naruto's actions, I think he's definitely changing the world slowly.

If Naruto had his way, and Kakashi as well, ninjas would not be obeying commands blindly, but be able to decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong, and to always consider the value of life - especially their own comrades.

It's always been Naruto's intention to walk a completely different way of the ninja, as he said out loud at Zabuza and Haku's funeral, and I think, for the better of all. Orochimaru chose not to walk any path but his own.

EDIT: Heh, I edited this post three times. Sorry about that.

kadodo
March 04, 2007, 06:00 PM
Nice review again Gold Knight. Yeah, I actually felt kind of sorry for Orochimaru as well and I liked the fact that Sasuke is not an evil person after all.
Well, there was one thing that you did mention and I thought I should ask you what you think is going to happen: Do you think Kabuto will be on Oro's side or Sasuke's side?

Gold Knight
March 04, 2007, 06:06 PM
At the moment I think Kabuto is on nobody's side but his own, and he's just seeing what will happen after this fight. If Orochimaru wins, then Kabuto will continue to serve him because their interests coincide. If it's Sasuke who comes out victorious, then Kabuto might have other schemes - perhaps even commanding Oro's forces for himself.

Toad Sage
March 04, 2007, 06:07 PM
Yes, it is indeed true that Naruto originally was more idealistic, and I suppose I didn't stress the passage of time enough in my above remarks. In the second act, when Naruto encounters Itachi, he kills him. As for Deidara, he also intended to kill him, and didn't make any great effort to reason with him or persuade him the way he had with Gaaraor Neji. Next we see him ferociously assault Orochimaru, Kabuto, and, accidentally, Sakura. When at last he meets Sasuke he does calm down a little, but this is largely because Sasuke dominated him completely. And of course, most recently fighting with Kakuzu, again we see him killing.

Anyway you slice it, Naruto has a clear prediliction towards solving his problems with violence in the second act. You may say that I'm being too extreme with this opinion, but I just don't see why Naruto's philosophy extends itself to saving people like Gaara and Neji but not other, even more troubled characters. I think Naruto should be consistent in his philosophical precepts, and that it is absurd to say arbitrary distinctions Naruto makes internally are enough to distinguish people worth saving from people who are not. If you allow this, then Naruto's whole point of view becomes totalitarian and actually more evil than the mere plans for dominating the military industry Akatsuki has...

I'm not trying to say that Naruto is bad for this, however. I'm merely pointing out what I see as a theme in the story, which is again, that altrustic notions are difficult to hang onto in the world of Naruto. I only mention this in the context of a chapter 344 discussion because I feel this is the meaning of the closing pages with Orochimaru. Hence, this explains why I sympathize so much with Orochimaru.

Further evidence for this notion is when Kabuto points out to Sakura just how desperate Naruto has become by allowing himself to transform into a monster whilst fighting Orochimaru. I feel that scene was remarking on the same "spiritual trouble" that plauges shinobi that I am describing.

As for Yondaime and Orochimaru, I guess we just have different perspectives. I'm too cynical to believe there is a great deal of difference between showing no mercy to a rock-nin, even if it is for his country or whatever, and settling a vendetta. To me the notion of an "unselfish, and therefore good" killing seems self contradictory, as I feel killing is wrong in all forms. Initially I believed Naruto felt the same way, again, referencing the waveland arc. Now the story has an interesting twist built into it in my opinion in the form of Naruto's moral philosophy eroding to survive as a ninja.

kadodo
March 04, 2007, 06:10 PM
At the moment I think Kabuto is on nobody's side but his own, and he's just seeing what will happen after this fight. If Orochimaru wins, then Kabuto will continue to serve him because their interests coincide. If it's Sasuke who comes out victorious, then Kabuto might have other schemes - perhaps even commanding Oro's forces for himself.

That is an interesting comment but for some reason I feel that Kishimoto will put some into the story. I don't know what it will be but I'm pretty sure that we are going to br surprised. In how many chapters do you expect to see naruto?

Edit:
Also, I wonder if Orochimaru ever felt like he wanted to die. If he really is doing all this to see his parents one day, did he not ever feel that he was doing something wrong? Did his conscience ever feel bad?

Gold Knight
March 04, 2007, 06:33 PM
@ TS - I think you have to take in consideration that Deidara was threatening Naruto's friend at the time, something that brought the beast out of him, so to speak. It was pretty obvious that he couldn't contain the demon within him at that time. He also reacted similarly to Orochimaru because he believed he was directly responsible for taking Sasuke away from Konohagakure. As for Itachi - well, he IS the reason Sasuke's life has been so miserable, and Naruto recognizes that.

I agree that Naruto is putting aside his ideals fro the sake of his friends right now, and I think that's something he is coming to realize isn't the best way of approaching things. It certainly hasn't helped much. He killed somebody he didn't even know when he thought he killed Itachi, he was barely able to save Gaara regardless of his anger at Deidara, he let Orochimaru get away from him and nearly killed Sakura as a result, and when he encountered Sasuke, he felt incredibly weak.

As for Yondy and Oro, I don't know what else I can say, but I agree that there is no white and black in the world of shinobi. But even as the other countries fought Yondaime, they knew that he was protecting his own country from them, and I'm sure they respected that. Just as Chiyo, despite her failures in the past, came to respect Tsunade even though they were fighting on different sides. Orochimaru? He betrayed his own country, and he'll even go as far as kill his own men to get what he wants. That's just despicable. Kakashi would definitely call Oro "worse than trash" for that.



That is an interesting comment but for some reason I feel that Kishimoto will put some into the story. I don't know what it will be but I'm pretty sure that we are going to br surprised. In how many chapters do you expect to see naruto?

I'm not sure to tell you the truth. But since Kishimoto wasn't shy about showing Naruto cutscenes in Chapter 343 even as we were just starting to find out what's going on between Sasuke and Orochimaru, I'm sure he'll do that again soon enough. Probably 2 chapters.



Also, I wonder if Orochimaru ever felt like he wanted to die. If he really is doing all this to see his parents one day, did he not ever feel that he was doing something wrong? Did his conscience ever feel bad?


I think he lost track of "why" he became the monster he is now, but I think Sasuke is forcing him to "remember" now.

amg
March 04, 2007, 06:44 PM
where will sasuke end after his fight ? because i think he is gonna escape from oro.

Toad Sage
March 04, 2007, 06:57 PM
Also, I wonder if Orochimaru ever felt like he wanted to die. If he really is doing all this to see his parents one day, did he not ever feel that he was doing something wrong? Did his conscience ever feel bad?


He cried before his battle with Sandaime! He's dying inside! Oh, poor Oro :)

@-GK-Yah, all good points as usual :) Thanks for entertaining a few of my remarks. I didn't mean to get carried away with long posts in the review thread, heh. It's just that old Orochimaru has me really stirred up this chapter.

Gold Knight
March 04, 2007, 09:22 PM
where will sasuke end after his fight ? because i think he is gonna escape from oro.


Probably going to search for the Akatsuki so he can find his chance to strike at Itachi. That's the first thing that comes to mind.



He cried before his battle with Sandaime! He's dying inside! Oh, poor Oro :)

@-GK-Yah, all good points as usual :) Thanks for entertaining a few of my remarks. I didn't mean to get carried away with long posts in the review thread, heh. It's just that old Orochimaru has me really stirred up this chapter.


No problem - I liked discussing these points with you :)

Saifi
March 04, 2007, 11:49 PM
wow great /fast review Gk . This time i wont say good komments and then argue aout a point , this time ur review speaks exactly what i think .

Plus thx for pointing out the references for what exactly sauske is quoting (well not exactly quoting but... u know)

another thing that came as an after thought was sauske defeating 1000 shinobi and kimimaroo defeating a similar # of naruto bunshins !

one with the earth seal and the other with the heaven seal !

kimimaroo finally losing to gaara (jinchuruki) thru plot no jutsu ! .... do u believe that history repeats itself in the manga .. just wondering what ur thoughts are on that !

KickAzzThug
March 05, 2007, 12:28 AM
I agree with you 100% this was a highly anticipated chapter for myself as well. Personally I like Sasuke's attitude here. I enjoy the fact that he is being frank with Orochimaru. I feel that he is more powerful than Orochimaru, and that from the beginning he never sought to give his body up to Orochimaru. The reason i think this is because when we first met Sasuke in the series he had 2 ambitions. One was killing his brother and the second was the resurrection of the Uchiha clan. I believe that as of right now he is walking the path he believes would be the quickest to killing Itachi. I think after he kills Itachi he wants to go back to Konoha and resurrect his clan. In rereading the grass arc today I noticed that Sasuke only started talking big just before Orochimaru showed up and stopped him. I believe that Sasuke knew he was there and only said that he wanted to kill Naruto and if need be sacrifice his body because he knew that Orochimaru was listening. However, there is one thing that is bothering me about this chapter. Well not only this chapter but the story as a whole. I donot like the fact that Sasuke is using the cursed seal. In my opinion it is the same as Naruto using the Kyuubi's power. Naruto wants to save Sasuke using his own power not that of the Kyuubi. I kind of see the same thing with Sasuke. I see him using the Cursed Seal and either Naruto or Itachi kicking his ass and telling him that the power of the Uchiha is greater than any cursed seal. In addition, I think it demeans Sasuke's character. Itachi was able to obtain the MS by killing his best friend however, he was a genius who gained his power by himself not by using a curse. I feel that Sasuke using this power to become stronger hurts his character. Because Itachi did not need to have a cursed seal to gain his power. I think that makes Sasuke look weak that even though he is strong he had to be cheap and use borrowed power to become stronger. For this reason like I said above I think Sasuke has to be defeated by someone. I see two possible scenarios, One he loses to Orochimaru right now and realises that he is weak because he is using borrowed powers, somehow escapes and comes back to Konoha and learns how to obtain MS from Kakashi. The second scenario I see is Sasuke defeating Orochimaru and confronting Itachi and getting his butt whipped. Itachi spares him again saying that you have to still have to obtain MS. Somehow the Konoha hears about Orochimarus defeat and goes to recover Sasuke and he learns MS from Kakashi. Either way I think that Sasuke has to learn like Naruto that his own power is greater than any evil or borrowed powers they may obtain.

@ Toad Sage

I agree that in the second part Naruto has not been as helpful as he has in the past. However, I donot think he meant that he would not kill after the fight with Zabuza, rather I think that he swore that he would walk down a path he would not regret. In the fight with Neji he wanted to prove that a loser could beat a genius and that one could change their fate, Neji is a fellow member of Konoha he never wanted to kill him. With Gaara all the way till the end he wanted to defeat him and if need be kill him however, Sasuke told him to stop and Gaara gave up and seeing how far Naruto was willing to go for his friends. Thats what changed Gaara. I dont think that Naruto never wanted to kill I think if need be he would kill to save the bonds he has made. In the case of Deidara he wanted to kill him because he hurt Gaara. I think that Naruto is being a Ninja I dont think his character was made to save the world from lonliness he set the example for Neji and Gaara to follow he did not intend to change them by fighting them. I think that the opponents that Naruto has faced in part 2 have all been Akatsuki a group of people trying to kill him and a group that Itachi is a part of. Naruto knows this and has attacked them with no mercy. The only person he attacked was Sakura but he was KN4 and Naruto was no longer in control it was the Kyuubi.

venicia777
March 05, 2007, 01:31 AM
i really love the wonderful discussions going on in here right now. TS, GK and everyone else since TS entered the fray.

On the one hand, one can argue that Naruto's sense of ideal- deciding whom to kill or not kill-- can be or is misplaced/misleading. It is the ninja world after all. On the battlefield one may end up killing otherwise s/he will get killed irrespective of whatever means is used or intentions were had.

And on the other hand-- without a sense of ideal Naruto loses its substance, the meaning that attracted most of us and made us stay with it up till now. Heck although Naruto himself may send it to the extreme when it comes to whom he considers friends, one can say that the Ninja states wouldnt exist if they didnt have collective ideals (Yeah-- Naruto sends it to such a level for Sasuke that it seems a little too unreal- i know the manga itself is unreal. that now i have even started praying for Sasuke to get soo strong that he could whip some sense into him to leave him alone).




anyways, i am glad Kishimoto decided to flesh out Orochimaru a little. just like most, i was a litte shocked of his seeming innocence as a kid. and it was a great juxtapositon- when the big bad villain is been bullied around (somewhat) we see he wasnt all that of a whack job from the beginning. Eliciting sympathy-- hell yeah.

fatboy812000
March 05, 2007, 03:08 AM
nice comments as usual. i personally still think theres time for oro to activate a fail safe in the curse seal the battle just began and very few attacks have been traded since he changed but if the seal gives sasuke a mega advantage i expect to see oro use it to sort of turn the tide in like a sneaky last chance type of move all master villians have a backdoor.

foxybrown
March 05, 2007, 08:53 AM
wow i am new here and that the greatest thing i read wow i just read the naruto manga did you do reviews before 300 thanks a lot by the way . and oo do you think sasgei (sasgay) will beat his brother when he finds him. thank :smile-big

HisshouBuraiKen
March 05, 2007, 08:57 AM
(Mentions of good writing)


Well thank you! I try.

;)

The dialog was very good though, I enjoyed translating this one a lot.

kisit
March 05, 2007, 09:38 AM
Wonderful review GK! I really enjoyed reading it. I love your little captions under the images <3 Made me laugh!

now for my input... :tem


But does that mean that Sasuke would have willingly given himself to Orochimaru if he did not feel as though he had gotten any stronger than him? Maybe he would have considered that as satisfactory penance if he did not succeed in getting any more powerful than Orochimaru, since that would mean he would have failed in getting any closer to surpassing Itachi?

I really like that theory. If he could not become powerful enough to defeat Orochimaru then he would not be powerful enough to kill his brother. I also wonder if perhaps Sasuke's reunion with Naruto and Sakura may have sparked a desire to stay alive as well. After spending all of that time training under Orochimaru and then seeing that his old friends (who I really think he does care about even if he doesn't show it) were still out there looking for him. How touching. :p



What does bother me is that Orochimaru seemingly has no power over stopping him from using the curse seal. What's up with that?

My thoughts exactly. I could have sworn that Orochimaru was able to "control" those under his curse...at least to a point. Why he doesn't do this with Sasuke makes me wonder... Oro is either too weak to do it? or maybe Sasuke really has become so powerful that he can withstand the effects that Oro could place on him.



And for the first time in the entire series, I actually felt for Oro here. Just good writing again - showing how the loss of Orochimaru's parents might have led him to having grand dreams of becoming an immortal.

This chapter was excellent in terms of how it was written. Very moving and the drama was point on. I even started to feel for Oro here as well. Parents death leading to dreams of immortality...it has been done before I suppose, but that could be a powerful reason for a person to fear death and never want to be part of its cycle.

Gold Knight
March 05, 2007, 02:48 PM
@ Saifi - I didn't think of comparing Kimimaro defeating all the thousand Naruto bunshins with Sasuke's victory over all these hundreds of shinobi, but that's a good point, it very well could be foreshadowing a later battle in the series. Glad you liked the review :)

@ KickAzzThug - I agree with you 100% as well; actually, I already thought that Sasuke's reliance on the Curse Seal was very alike Naruto's dealings with the Kyuubi, and it could similarly be having a bad influence on his mind. That right there may be Sasuke's biggest weakness, too, one that Naruto might be able to exploit in a battle if they have one again. Or even Itachi. Very well written post and thoughts, and I can only nod at what you just said.

Good analysis on Naruto's promise as well, and you're right, walking a path without regrets very well might be what he meant. Right now, though, I don't think he's exactly walking on such a path, and that's where he's having to grow right now. It's a very hard promise to keep to yourself, because you never know what will happen next. Naruto at that time never imagined that Sasuke would leave the team, I think, and run head-first into danger, and there was practically nothing he could have done to stop him.

As Naruto said to Sasuke a while ago, how could he become Hokage if he couldn't even save a friend?

Thanks for dropping by and writing your post :)

@ venicia777 - I wouldn't say that Naruto should've not have followed Sasuke and that it was unreal for him to go to such extents.

Consider this scenario: if you were about to make the biggest mistake in your life, one that would ruin your future, dreams, and perhaps it would even end up costing you your life, and your best friend knew it but stood silent, would you still consider him a friend?

Naruto perceived Sasuke's betrayal and defection to Orochimaru as a huge mistake, and tried everything he could to stop him and bring him back to Konohagakure. Even though he failed, at the very least Sasuke came to know that there was a friend back home that was willing to sacrifice himself for him. Hence why I think Naruto did save Sasuke - in a way that he hasn't quite understood yet.

As for Naruto going to extremes, it's not too unreal, and surprising to me. He grew up without a family. Without friends. Nobody who cared about him, until Iruka. Sasuke in some ways was Naruto's first friend, though - one that didn't have to worry about being his guardian - and their rivalry became a brotherhood which forged a bond that was very important to Naruto. As an orphan that never felt that kind of friendship before, you can bet he was willing to go to any lengths to keep that bond from breaking.

Thanks for coming by :)

@ fatboy812000 - I think that if Orochimaru wanted to do that, I think he would have already done it before. Of course, maybe he *had* to be able to use his hands in order to deactivate the seal, heh, and now he has none.

@ niirokitsune - Yeah, I did reviews before chapter 300 at Naruto Forums - but they were never as detailed as they are now. I just posted them in the middle of old discussion threads, so they weren't easy to find... and unfortunately they're all lost now, because NF did a cleaning a while ago and got rid of these threads altogether. :/ So what you see here at MH is all I have now, and I have started backing them up, in case you were wondering, hehe.

And no... I don't think Sasuke will beat Itachi the next time. I think there are probably going to be at least two more confrontations between Sasuke and Itachi. These things come in threes, right?

@ hisshouburaiken - once again, thanks for doing such a super job on the translation ^^

@ kisit - Thanks, and glad you liked the captions, heh. I don't know if Sasuke's meeting with Naruto and Sakura inspired him to stay alive. Maybe it did... hmm. Maybe when Sasuke realized that Orochimaru and Kabuto weren't brave enough to face the Akatsuki on their own, that's when he decided they were just too pathetic to hang out with anymore...?

As for Orochimaru's curse seal powers, it might be a combination of Sasuke's willpower surpassing Oro's and Oro's current bijuu-like form that may be incapable of working jutsus due to a lack of hands (which would be ironic).

Yeah, I've never felt bad for Oro in the series until now! Totally threw me for a loop! Glad you liked the chapter & my review and hope you come by again! ;)

venicia777
March 05, 2007, 03:11 PM
I wouldn't say that Naruto should've have followed Sasuke and that it was unreal for him to go to such extents.

Consider this scenario: if you were about to make the biggest mistake in your life, one that would ruin your future, dreams, and perhaps it would even end up costing you your life, and your best friend knew it but stood silent, would you still consider him a friend?

Naruto perceived Sasuke's betrayal and defection to Orochimaru as a huge mistake, and tried everything he could to stop him and bring him back to Konohagakure. Even though he failed, at the very least Sasuke came to know that there was a friend back home that was willing to sacrifice himself for him. Hence why I think Naruto did save Sasuke - in a way that he hasn't quite understood yet.

As for Naruto going to extremes, it's not too unreal, and surprising to me. He grew up without a family. Without friends. Nobody who cared about him, until Iruka. Sasuke in some ways was Naruto's first friend, though - one that didn't have to worry about being his guardian - and their rivalry became a brotherhood which forged a bond that was very important to Naruto. As an orphan that never felt that kind of friendship before, you can bet he was willing to go to any lengths to keep that bond from breaking.





maybe you didnt/couldnt understand me properly(no long posts from me there). But Most Naruto fans including myself already hold the opinion you have pointed out just above. That is why we loved the first part.

But i have come to also understand the opinions Like ToadSages. Including what TS said, some also hold the opinion that Naruto ACT 2 has become too sasuke-centric for Naruto himself. You yourself stated above but for a different rearson that because of Narutos love for sasuke he said " a while ago, how could he become Hokage if he couldn't even save a friend?". That almost sounds like the all for one theme (ninjas for Konoha) in ACT 1 had become me for one.

i guess this banter can go on- but i have to go back to work.

Gold Knight
March 05, 2007, 04:19 PM
maybe you didnt/couldnt understand me properly(no long posts from me there). But Most Naruto fans including myself already hold the opinion you have pointed out just above. That is why we loved the first part.


Uh... venicia, this was the line of yours that had me writing that post, and I'm pretty sure I understood it just fine.


Heck although Naruto himself may send it to the extreme when it comes to whom he considers friends, one can say that the Ninja states wouldnt exist if they didnt have collective ideals (Yeah-- Naruto sends it to such a level for Sasuke that it seems a little too unreal- i know the manga itself is unreal. that now i have even started praying for Sasuke to get soo strong that he could whip some sense into him to leave him alone).

iThePirate
March 05, 2007, 06:08 PM
Well as good as the last one, without a doubt.

You've already brought up like everything in the discussions here so I'll just take my leave and wait 'til next chapter. :noworry

('n 'bout the thing with 3rds curse on oro 'n all, it's still a bleedin' mystery since I'm not in the mood for re-readin' the manga atm) :darn

Luckas
March 05, 2007, 06:51 PM
Very excellent review, GK.
About the apparent incapacity of Orochimaru to disable Sasuke curse seal activation instead of what he did to Anko, couldn't it be due to the fact Anko was a failure but Sasuke wasn't? (In relation to the bestowing of the curse seal)

I'm thinking that Orochimaru true form could explain why the curse inflicted upon him by Sandaime wasn't transfered to his new body. Because Oro transfer physically himself to a new body, and not only his spirit, then the Sandaime jutsu could have been influences only the body or the body's soul the Sannin was wearing. I know that it isn't a very clever explanation, but maybe someone could elaborate it well or point out its limits.

Gold Knight
March 06, 2007, 01:26 AM
Well as good as the last one, without a doubt.

You've already brought up like everything in the discussions here so I'll just take my leave and wait 'til next chapter. :noworry

('n 'bout the thing with 3rds curse on oro 'n all, it's still a bleedin' mystery since I'm not in the mood for re-readin' the manga atm) :darn


Hah... yeah rereading Naruto does tend to take up some time ;)



Very excellent review, GK.
About the apparent incapacity of Orochimaru to disable Sasuke curse seal activation instead of what he did to Anko, couldn't it be due to the fact Anko was a failure but Sasuke wasn't? (In relation to the bestowing of the curse seal)

That could be. Or the curse seal itself wasn't as powerful as it is now. Anko was probably the first person Orochimaru ever gave that seal to...



I'm thinking that Orochimaru true form could explain why the curse inflicted upon him by Sandaime wasn't transfered to his new body. Because Oro transfer physically himself to a new body, and not only his spirit, then the Sandaime jutsu could have been influences only the body or the body's soul the Sannin was wearing. I know that it isn't a very clever explanation, but maybe someone could elaborate it well or point out its limits.


Yeah, that could be, too.

iThePirate
March 06, 2007, 07:40 AM
I'm thinking that Orochimaru true form could explain why the curse inflicted upon him by Sandaime wasn't transfered to his new body. Because Oro transfer physically himself to a new body, and not only his spirit, then the Sandaime jutsu could have been influences only the body or the body's soul the Sannin was wearing. I know that it isn't a very clever explanation, but maybe someone could elaborate it well or point out its limits.


Yeah I that sounds logical (as logic as logic gets in Naruto anyways).
Well, I've tricked asked a slave friend of mine to re-read the manga so I'm countin' on him now. :D

juUnior
March 06, 2007, 03:05 PM
Great review GK :D

Always, when I read your reviews, I have a feeling that Naruto is more than it is when I read it only with my thoughts, that it has more to offer xD I really apraciate your work on reviews ^^

oblivionjedi
March 06, 2007, 03:15 PM
*starts clapping*...*stands up still clapping*...*starts jumping and screaming and clapping all at the same time*

AWESOME review!! keep it up

Gold Knight
March 06, 2007, 07:06 PM
Heh, thanks fellows. And don't worry, I plan to do this 'til the end (whether it's the series or my own end xD )

ornis
March 07, 2007, 01:44 AM
Kishi has definitely delved into Pandora's Box if Sasuke's blank allusion to Lucifer's fall suddenly recedes without any effect. Recently, I have paralleled Sasuke's conquest and feigned patience with an ode to Icarus. In accordance, even as affective as his voice persists, so too did a blind, courageous, and winged boy drown&#194;… just as Lucifer fell while rapt in pride---and as an accuser, even as an agent of God (if Sasuke thinks he may be), Sasuke still knows nothing of Itachi's total intent and only a strung harp that impels his fateful dance. But to seemingly drive aspiring disobedience, what could typify Sasuke's Sun!?!

GK, I applaud your comments, including one specific idea:



3. Familiarity Begets Contempt...! Okay, so we find out here exactly WHY Sasuke never had much respect for Orochimaru, which I did appreciate! In Sasuke's eyes, Orochimaru isn't that much different from his hated brother, Itachi, in that they will do anything to accomplish their objectives... even at the expense of other people's lives.


Sasuke's still the pawn to a greater game involving his brother no matter the vice or MO.... So, could he ever be himself? Is this really the uchiha not on that torrential path, as the one who refused it, defied it, while wryly defying another -- or is the same essence on this "new" road raging permissibly because the true Orochimaru -- though he may be so alone -- perhaps illustrates a blindly torn villain? And again I emphasize that he may perhaps be a blind villain; he could define just another person in need of light. But perhaps there's a weasel in the sky as well... so goes evolution... 'cause Sasuke now assaults Oro with grave persecution, as if Sasuke's eyes can really compare Oro to Itachi more than Sasuke's blood and devotion can tie Sasuke with his kin. Being "imprisoned" twice now warrants Sasuke's great rebellion, and is understandable, but... what tenacious irony: using psychological fears, the very medium of Itachi's wrath, to see "through" Oro's insecurity:


http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3618/03vm7.png

Oh crap, Sasuke-kun's comparing me to Itachi! Noes!

As for insecurities, aren't Uchiwa's only as grand as the force necessitating them? Imply irritation and yes, a fan can cool--if its wind applies. For a brazen spread of feathers, with a trite and excusive wind to blow though... has not any abuse come from it -- abuse of circumstance, abuse of moral convection? Well, after "that" hits the fan multiple ways, how can Sasuke not spread his wings!

Now... who should be punished? Which monster deserves it: the blood-nurtured or the self-nurtured?

Well, I feel as though Oro needs to be found, too! I understand your sentiment more now than I ever wanted to on my own. I admit my hopes were for Sasuke's rebirth, but this ONE chapter... SHEESH!

Please help me here, everyone: compare death to sex: which lies more intimate? If Sasuke isn't enacting one damning, nindo transgression, is there any Will of Fire to disgrace? Or could revelation, evolution, and deliverance demand such near-sacrilegious, or rather potentially ego-sanitizing* prices that Kishi evokes? A certain Sasuke needs to fade... a certain Oro needs to live.

*Sasuke seems to be on autopilot--and frigidly mindless while aflame! With that possibility, Kishi may convey blood as more controlling, contemptuous, and conspiring than the vessel it empowers....


Posted on: March 07, 2007, 01:36:55 AM-Wouldn't a salvation thread be intriguing now?

Gold Knight
March 07, 2007, 10:36 AM
Woa, ornis. That was some post, heh. Sasuke might find his wings burnt like hot wax before long, for sure. Icarus is indeed an apt comparison! Good thoughts.

Sasuke certainly knew how exactly to attack Orochimaru's insecurities... excellent wording, btw, as far as calling Oro a possibly blind villain, considering how I was comparing him to Itachi there and how Itachi in particular might actually need to see an ophthalmologist soon enough! Hah!

Punishment could go both ways. Both Sasuke and Orochimaru - moreso Oro, though - have done things that would brand them both traitors to their own country, but Sasuke may have had his own hidden agenda all along where he didn't intend to do as much evil as others supposed him to be doing. But Sasuke is very much at risk of turning into the monster that he outwardly resembles now... and I guess it's up to his friends to rescue him from falling even deeper into the darkness.

Sasuke's definitely on autopilot, no doubt about it. Though he might be more gentler than we thought he would be, he's on cruise control and he's not going to stop for just anybody while he drives to his destination.

In some ways, Orochimaru might actually reflect what Sasuke himself might turn into at a later point. Orochimaru obviously had a goal in the beginning where he intended to gain immortality as a way of "meeting his parents again." Somewhere along the way, he may have realized that such a dream was futile, and he became despicable. Sasuke may still have his goal firmly in sight, which is to say Itachi, but after he accomplishes his objective, who's to say he won't become despicable as well in some form?

Thanks for your post, made me think ;)

--- BTW, guys, I've seen the spoilers, so I won't comment on predictions for the next chapter anymore ^^

cno
March 08, 2007, 08:03 PM
First off I'd like to touch on something that was recouring as I was browsing though the pages. Someone, I'm pretty sure it was TS was mentioning Naruto losing his moral values, and how he just rush's in to solve things with violence. Which is deffinatly true, Naruto is deffinatly a shoot first ask questions later type of guy, but seriously in this enviorment who can blame you? The majority of situations Naruto has seen himself in atleast, in part 2 have been situations that would lead to war between nations, it's just Akatsuki isn't a Nation, they're a group of S~Ranked criminals, who all have bounties on their heads.

So let me ask you, if people who have been known to do extremly violent, ruthless act's happened to capture one of you're friends to kill him, how would you approach said situation? Especially when you have a nine tailed demon fox inside of you acting as you're conscience.

I don't know, enough of that tho.

This chapter was pretty badass, and the most badass part was, I didn't see this coming, at ALL. I didn't see Sasuke over-powering Oro so easily, even in such a bad state ( with that being said Oro still isnt' finished yettt ).

Alot of people have also complained about this, and asked as to why Oro can't control Sasuke with the cursed seal as he did Anko, and I have two possible explination's for this. First, the fact that Oro in this condition can't use any real ninjutsu because he is unable to preform seals, and secondly cmon, Sasuke and Anko are on two completly diffrent levels.

As far as the predictions go for the next chapter, I couldn't even begin to guess, because well this chapter threw me off axis completly.

Sorry for grammar error's I'm a terrible speller.