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enlightened monkey
March 10, 2007, 10:43 PM
Enlightened Monkey Presents......

Naruto 345: Review

So we begin the chapter with a nice, full-size picture of every Sasuke fanboy's dream -- Oro with his arms and tongue around our little Uchiha hero....very tasty, that boy must be. Nothing like a prodigy's skin on a snake's tongue to start the chapter that many believe to be the demise of the snake itself. Do I follow in this belief? Hard to say -- as the writer, I'm sure, fully intends. Let's continue.


We immediately begin the chapter reminded of the promise Oro made to the future: immortality and his complete, budding obsession to see his parents one more time. He gazes at the snake with no evil in his eyes....and, in the following panels, we see a perfect analogy of Sasuke peering at Orochimaru with a similar expression, in CS2 form, with the white snake before him apparently dead. The analogy? It can be interpreted in many ways from rebirth (Oro's newfound obsession in the palm of his hand to Sasuke's realization that his brother is within reach now that a sennin has been dealt with) to a simple form of utter devotion to a newfound cause. Tales based on Japanese mythology are a lot deeper than they may seem, and so a lot can be looked into at once.

And that's just the first page.

Next, we can see that Sasuke made a successful two (at least) slashes on Oro's snake body -- and he'd expected that he'd won with those attacks alone? I was rather surprised at him for this since Oro's body itself IS snakes, and requires no preservation and continually regenerates with snakes unto themselves. Sasuke was obviously confident enough that his abilities were enough, however, for the big words he'd used ("That was far too easy...."). But were they?

Apparently not. In fact, Oro had the complete upper hand as he used a common ninja's theory of battle, cunning, to allow himself time and Sasuke's pride to come together in the form of his airborne poison and Sasuke's revertion to normal mode to create a physical advantage that might have been deadly for Sasuke had Oro not wanted his body. We're talking a 50 year old legendary ninja here! I'd have been shocked and quite disappointed if that had truly been the end -- but it wasn't, and so there was time to move on. And, as I'd predicted, Oro never needed any particular length of snake-body to survive on.

Now does Oro dive into Sasuke's body here....? I'm not quite sure but either way we end up in the spirit world where he and Sasuke are together along with two folks we recognize -- that dude Oro took over after the dude himself won the battle royale for the grand prize of being taken over by Oro....and the girl that Oro turned out to be against Sandaime (does that mean the geezer was killed by a girl? In actual physical terms? Interesting, debatable concept. I guess we can conclude that the soul of Oro is what matters, even though it would seem that a prepubescant girl's body was all he needed for the trick).

So next! Sasuke begins to be overwhelmed by bubbly goo and snakes coming out of his body as he's smothered -- but! Surprise surprise, he's done what his brother was doing way before his time and using his eye to a greater potential. Yay Sasuke. Still years behind your brother but....or actually maybe not. Sasuke's 15? When did Itachi slaugher the clan, same age? So perhaps, then, they're roughly equal. Always a point of interest, their growth rate in terms of age to one another. Could Sasuke wipe out his clan now? Well with Itachi in it, the answer's no. Without him? Who knows, but perhaps with a sword in his hand like Itachi he'd have a good chance.

Flashback! Oro's trapped by rather large stakes (painful!) in terms of the spirit world. He tries to put his hands together for a jutsu or a "kai" and ends up with a hand missing. Nice one, Itachi. No respect for eldars but that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Oro had some long nails, too.

Back in Sasuke/Oro land, Sasuke's staring intently at Oro with a look on his face that means trouble for the 2.5 years of crap Oro put him through. Oooh, the exact same stakes Itachi used are now put through Oro's spirit body! Interesting. One wonders just how Oro's keeping his cool but then we remember that he's been through all this before, and is also a genius (no matter how much Sasuke may think of his clan, that is the ultimate truth -- and without Oro....well....), and therefore most likely knows by now how to deal with such a technique that Itachi by now has probably surpassed anyways. So Oro seems all cool and good. For now. Even shares his thoughts on how Sasuke is his, stakes shoved into his spirit body or not.

Kabuto preparing stuff, commenting on how "even Sasuke" this and that, talking about how Oro can't go another day without spirit transfer. You'd think there's plenty of ninja Oro could transfer asides from Sasuke but I guess the kid wiped them all out during Kusanagi practice (kidding.....we all know he can only do it every 3 years and that he wants it NOW). Wait, he injured them. Still, doubt Oro would want to transfer into some castrated guy. Then again he's a multitude of snakes wrapped in one so he wouldln't really end up giving a damn either way.

Kabuto sees a whole lot of blood, takes coverage measures beside the doorway and notices the white snake's molted. Sasuke is all that remains.

But is it Sasuke.....? Even our perceptive Kabuto truly does not know, and we're left with these arguments on who it may be:

Sasuke: after hearing on how he "didn't want anybody but certain people dead"....we can assume that he'd naturally just walk by Kabuto like nothing, especially if he'd just defeated his master. Also, he DID know the same sealing method as Itachi did at the time, and may therefore have been able to stave off any takeover.

Orochimaru: Oro was convinced he'd win out, even when Sasuke used that very technique on him. He wouldn't hurt Kabuto and while a calm, collected Oro without a malicious grin on his face isn't something we're used to seeing, he may very well be inside Sasuke -- a different body, his ultimate of dreams realized, the moment he'd been waiting for for many years finally here. And no, Oro wouldn't be jumping up and down for joy ("Yay! I got it! I got it!!!")


A Mixture of the Two: Well wasn't the legend that the "genius" would give the snake "infinite vision"? Maybe this calm, collected guy is the two of them mixed together, someone with infinite vision (when you have infinite vision you usually try to look as calm and badass as possible....otherwise when you're done taking over the world the badass metre's just that little bit lower then it could have been).

My opinion? To be honest, I simply do not know.

MONKEY'S RATING: (possible 5 stars)

Story: ****

We move along the road of poetry, unsure of all things, never straying from the path of mystery as the conclusion leaves us in a mix of confusion and anticipation.......

Battle(s): N/A

Twists/Discoveries: ***

What DID we discover? Well, to me, finding out just how Oro got his bum handed to him helped things along. I was kind of waiting to see how Itachi ended up beating him although his "all powerful eye" disappointed me a bit...I'd expected a beatdown mixed with some sharingan power and a bit of MS at the end. Nope....yet, all the same, discovering the power of the sharingan and it's full effects was something to be appreciated. Also good to know that Sasuke's making good use of his spare time working hard at staring at things to stick them full of stakes in the spirit world. Works, I guess.

Oro's blood is a noxious, airborne poison! How neat is that? They should do that for crappy MMA fighters except they'd end up poisoning themselves most likely.

What other twists/discoveries were there...not much. But the Itachi/Oro thing grabbed the three stars I bestowed upon the subject.

As I progress in the reviews there'll be more categories to analyze and look over. This is, however, the end of my first official chapter review so:

well that's it actually.

Comments appreciated.

ironthought
March 11, 2007, 12:44 PM
cool review enlightened monkey. have you considered a 4th outcome? sasuke is in control, but now he has oro sealed inside him like naruto has kyuubi and can syphon off some of orochimarus power when necessary? i agree with you, i would have liked to see orochimaru and itachi fight alittle before itachi shur him down. i got a feeling that this whole exchange between sasuke and oro was a bit rushed. we didnt even get to see sasuke defeat white snake oro, it feels like an abridged version of the story. but then Kishi could be trying to save showing sasukes skills for latter, but still. this mini arc with sasuke was very refreshing for the series, this was the first time in while that i was excited to read the next chapter of Naruto.

enlightened monkey
March 11, 2007, 01:09 PM
I thought about the 4th outcome, but in my personal opinion it'd be very difficult for me to imagine Kishi giving Sasuke the exact same means of power as Naruto -- after all, Sasuke's power derives from genius and while he used the curse seal to defeat Oro, I can't imagine Kishi completely paralleling Sasuke with Naruto in terms of a semi-demon snake inside of him to Naruto's kyuubi. Also, there's the issue of how he'd draw on Oro's power because unless he's found a way to seal Oro, shut him up, completely bind him and have his power to his whim, I don't see Oro just handing Sasuke his jutsu or strength whenever he needs it.

I remember an interesting comment on Orochimaru's part..."your pathetic jutsu do nothing..." or the like. So did Sasuke learn everything there was to know? I doubt it. He had under 1000 days with the snake master and Orochimaru supposedly (and very most likely) knows THOUSANDS....so unless Sasuke truly was learning two to three a day I severely doubt he truly knows everything Oro does although he did teach himself quite the thing or two, it would seem.

So the fourth option? I doubt it for my own reasons. But you're right -- it's out there. It'd be interesting, therefore, to see if that's how Kishi puts it. Because if so, then we have Sasuke the Sharingan Demigod with Oro Inside of Him with His Power and Jutsu.....sheesh. Talk about a power skip and trip.

omniscientone
March 11, 2007, 01:23 PM
My first post, so ignore me if I'm babbling.

But I see two more ways Kishi can mess with our brains.

Both are pretty much carbon copies of each other, though.

One, is if Sasuke is actually in control, but acts as Orochimaru to keep everybody off balance. I mean, Orochi would command more respect at this point than a Uchiha genius / brat.

Similary, Oro, could act as Sasuke, to maybe enter Konoha and get some people off his enemy list.

Both have been with each other to know the others tendencies well enough, and both are geniuses in their own right.

enlightened monkey
March 11, 2007, 01:32 PM
I'd never choose the option of Sasuke pretending to be Oro. Uchiha pride and his personality completely blocks that option. And an Uchiha genius/brat ends up defeating Oro? He'll wield all the more power and authority.

As for Oro as Sasuke....that's a valid option that I believe counts as "he is Oro"....so that's been gone through already BUT your points on motive are valid.

Actually, good train of thought has been made here. Anybody have other possibilities in mind?

kroden
March 11, 2007, 01:35 PM
Nice review enlightened monkey. You're providing us with meaningful insights and tht's what I want to ask you about.



It can be interpreted in many ways from rebirth to a simple form of utter devotion to a newfound cause. Tales based on Japanese mythology are a lot deeper than they may seem, and so a lot can be looked into at once.


I understand your interpretations but I don't know about all these tales. Could you elaborate ? There might be some material to back some predictions.



Well wasn't the legend that the "genius" would give the snake "infinite vision"? Maybe this calm, collected guy is the two of them mixed together, someone with infinite vision.


Take this legend for instance. I don't think I know about it (or I just forgot the part of the manga about it :p). In any case it gives interesting hints for prediction.

enlightened monkey
March 11, 2007, 02:02 PM
"I understand your interpretations but I don't know about all these tales. Could you elaborate ? There might be some material to back some predictions."

There's a lot of ancient Japanese legends, some that are doomed love stories and some that revolve around mythical beasts and people changing destinies....they come from all areas of what people want to hear about and range from tales considered truth of history (bible-esque material) to simple tales told from mouth to mouth over the generation. Wki "japanese folklore" or "japanese legend/s" and you may come up with some material. It's all over the place on the internet, in libraries, bookstores.

The Naruto series itself is widely known to be based off the Legend of the Tailed Beasts (exact name? Not sure). I read it AGES ago before I even heard of Naruto, so I can't be 100% sure on how the legend interprets into the modern-day manga but there are parallels all over the place in the story that people on this site who know more on it than I do tend to point out time and again.

As for the "infinite vision" part of the legend, that comes from the story itself, actually. The 8-tailed beast acquires a genius and there's something about them merging into a being of "infinite vision" and the like. Then again, there's so many interpretations of the legend itself (especially nowadays with people regarding Naruto as the legend in it's own right) that it's hard to follow what the true folklore story told and what people want to hear from it these days.

'tis a shame, but that's the way it is. Err...I believe Narutofan has something on the legend of the tailed beasts or at least it provides parallels on the tailed beasts and how they relate to the legend itself.

kroden
March 11, 2007, 02:15 PM
Thanks I will try and investigate them mysef. If I got you right I better make my own mind so...

enlightened monkey
March 11, 2007, 03:29 PM
Pretty much. The only true authority on these tales are the actual tales themselves and the real, unabridged and unchanged stories are very hard for people like you and I to come by -- so I'm no authority on them save things I read as a kid and what I hear on these forums -- and occasionally come across on the internet. So yes -- it's up to the individual to investigate on these things...unless there's someone willing to come forwards on the belief they've got the real deal.

BTW does anybody have an unsaid theory on what's happened with Sasuke/Oro? Perhaps the options have all been used but I wouldn't mind hearing the opinions of those who've got a good idea of where they're at on the subject.....

Gahh
March 11, 2007, 05:09 PM
I like your review monkey.

Yet i think there might be some other outcome nobody of us thinks.

To touch the myth about the tailed beasts have a look on:

http://community.livejournal.com/yokaimonsters/57605.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penghou

It seems that the "nine tailed bijus" are at best patched together from various !chinese! myths, but more likely mostly fanfic.
Concerning the kyubi no mitsune (nine tailed fox), which indeed does exist in japanese myth, well what does it take to defeat one ? As much as a bow and an archer, and probably a buddhist monk to appease the poor angered spirit. There are too i think 3, 5 and 7 tailed foxes, depending on how old and wise they are... but read in the links above. I found once a very good official site, but i cant find it on google among all the crap :-[

have a read on this one too where the original author admits it is a biased document, however still some people dont get it at all, it seems as some people dont care to read anymore and just keep posting. 8-/

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=110272

to what i have seen so far kishi picks alot of stuff from myths and litrature, but tears it apart and patches it togheter to something entirely new ...
[br]Posted on: March 11, 2007, 11:50:11 PM_________________________________________________Well anyway
For me its still unclear what happens.

since the end of the sasuke rescue ark i was wondering how kishi is going to resolve it without making naruto cheap. Because, either Sasuke defeating oro or naruto, jiraya or kakashi saving the day for Sasuke would cheapen Naruto too much. Also Oro taking over Sasuke irreversibly would be somewhat strong for shonen jump.
Not to forget this manga is named NARUTO and not SASUKE.
I think kishi has something special in mind that nobody knows yet.

My guess right now is thats neither Sasuke nor Oro controling his body.

But somebody that new a far younger kabuto ?

Me also doubts that this "leia" face in oros mental world is the one from the battle with the third. Compare yourself in chapter 121 and 122, chapter 121 page 5 is an especially good picture.
If you look at oro in the flashback with itachi, he is not taller than 13-15 year old itachi, also the hand with the akatsuki ring looks like a female one. Also Oro stated in the battle versus the third, that this is his second body he took.
And too, that at least one bijuu was sealed back when oro was still in aka.

Is this all a coincidence ?

So my guess is right now, that this women has control of sasukes body ...

enlightened monkey
March 11, 2007, 05:10 PM
Oro took over another body after the woman/girl's.....for her to be in control when he's borne the same characteristics throughout life before and after he took her would be inconclusive. That and the fact that fans simply have no care in the world for her, meaning it'd turn out to be a very low-key twist for such a hyped and important character such as Orochimaru.

That and who the heck girl would want to take over the body of some 50-year-old made of snakes? And finally, on that point, Orochimaru's "true form" was seen, and the woman's catatonic state in the spirit world mirrors the man he also took over -- so unless this woman's got insane power beyond Oro's and Sasuke's then there's simply no way she's taken over Oro and, as a stepping stone, Sasuke.

Well that's natural for Kishi to do, making Naruto a piece of everything into something new -- otherwise, Naruto would be an entirely predictable story, hm? Well, I took a look at the links and, well, they speak for themselves....*grabs dusty japanese folklore book* (it's literally called "Japanese Folklore")....well, there's always the 3-7-9 tailed foxes.....they're actually pretty common. The 9-tailed fox was also originally thought to be the wisest and oldest of all creatures as well, and that may be a source of Kishi's "unlimited power" scenario.

Yeah....I'm not all surprised on how false a lot of this stuff is. The 9-tailed fox in MY book is basically a sage for some dude finding his lost love....not, as I'd come to think of it, some giant beast with 8 other demons running around. So, quite honestly, I think there can be a conclusion that the theories and myths of the tailed beasts can never be 100% verified as true simply because they've been drawn from too many sources at a time, which is a shame (I wouldn't have minded getting ahead on predictions if the manga were based on a single, solid legend but....).

Thanks for the links, Gaah. Gaah! No definitive leads!

Gahh
March 11, 2007, 05:30 PM
Oro took over another body after the woman/girl's.....for her to be in control when he's borne the same characteristics throughout life before and after he took her would be inconclusive. That and the fact that fans simply have no care in the world for her, meaning it'd turn out to be a very low-key twist for such a hyped and important character such as Orochimaru.

I dont want to say that this women has overpowered oro.
Well just read my entire theory here:

http://mangahelpers.com/forum/index.php?topic=16105.msg359674#msg359674

should i post it as a review myself ?



Thanks for the links, Gaah. Gaah! No definitive leads!

Nope i wouldnt dare to claim so.
But having win flatout either oro or sasuke would not suit kishi plot no jutsu. And we have enough jinchukiris too.

SmallTiger
March 11, 2007, 05:43 PM
Good review E-M! :tem

Re: the Japanese legends, here is an observation (not a prediction)-- the Orochi legend about the demon snake and the genius is different from the Jiraiya legend. In the Tale of the Gallant Jiraiya, it is Jiraiya himself who kills Orochimaru. And in that tale Orochimaru is not an 8-headed demon, but a regular guy who gave himself up to "serpent magic" and thus became powerful.

However, in that tale Orochimaru is also Jiraiya's student, and Jiraiya and Tsunade are married or lovers or something... hmm....

enlightened monkey
March 11, 2007, 05:49 PM
Well, we know Kishi's done a melting pot number on the myths/legends/tales, right? Maybe he took a bit of your first legend and a bit of your second, who knows.

I'm gonna reply to your theory, Gaah, here just because I don't know how much of replying's been done otherwise:

The girl and the man are two people we've prominently observed Oro overtaking before. My own personal opinion on their appearance in Oro's mental world is to show just exactly the predicament and world Sasuke's in (was in) at that moment in time. As for showing the hand with the ring after seeing Itachi cut it off....I believe it's more to show the importance of preserving the ring-hand than to point out someone else is involved here. Something to keep away from Akatsuki, perhaps, or simply a reminder of Oro's passion for the thing that was out of that hand's grasp at the time.

Now as for the rest....I can't see Sasuke deciding to refute the pride of the Uchiha and his rather nasty words to Oro by allowing someone to overtake him or even help him defeat the snake master. He seemed quite content to do it on his own -- and the girl got just as much manga picture time as the guy we all know Oro took over from before (as we know from the girl as well).....it's therefore my belief that they are both simply people we have already seen as being taken over and therefore used as devices by Kishi to show us exactly the predicament Sasuke's in at the moment.

Gahh
March 11, 2007, 06:13 PM
I'm gonna reply to your theory, Gaah, here just because I don't know how much of replying's been done otherwise:

Thanx, and you would be the first to reply so far :)



and the girl got just as much manga picture time as the guy we all know Oro took over from before (as we know from the girl as well).....it's therefore my belief that they are both simply people we have already seen as being taken over and therefore used as devices by Kishi to show us exactly the predicament Sasuke's in at the moment.

Where do you see oro taking over that girls body ? Though it is indeed strange oro would take a twice girls body in row ... but still make the comparison with chapter 121. So far it seems to me, that kishi made always the face of the people blend with oros original face.

Well for sasuke, even with a fully powered normal sharingan, if he had to face bijuu power (from the aka ring) in oros world then a stand off would be still a great achivement.

And yeah of course its only a theory, and a far fetched one maybe :smile-big

enlightened monkey
March 11, 2007, 06:41 PM
That same girl you see is the girl he was seen in the body of during the chuunin exams against the 3rd. She'd already been Orochimafied, true, but it was the same girl neverthless -- like the dude we also see within the confines of Oro's will.

Bijuu power from the Akatsuki ring? You lost me, there.

Gahh
March 11, 2007, 06:49 PM
That with that girl i cant tell that for sure, but in my eyes(!) the two faces dont match.

Akatsuki ring and bijuu ... my guess is that oro needed the power of a bijuu to make his immortality jutsu work, this might even explain the many other "souls" as possibly this world is linked to a bijuu, and other "villains" or the bijuu itself might have taken other peoples bodys
But read my theory number 2.

enlightened monkey
March 11, 2007, 06:56 PM
Hmm. Well the "matching faces" theory goes back to my "Orochimafied" guess. Uhh....well, as for the bijuu aspect......wow. You're completely going beyond anything even touched on in the manga so...I can't really say. There's the whole thing on 9 Akatsuki, 9 bijuu but a lot of people forget that there were 10 members......so do the rings have anything to do with the bijuu? I doubt it, but they have rings all the same. An interesting side to the whole issue, but...who knows. While Deidara DID retrieve his ring arm, I don't see how anybody would have blamed him if he'd left it in the desert after Gaara did his number on the other arm.

So....the power of a bijuu....well, perhaps. But aren't....ah never mind. We've never even seen the other bijuu asides from an idiot one (3-tails), and the rest sealed inside jinchuuriki. So there's simply no way of knowing anything about whether bijuu have taken over people's bodies or not.

Gahh
March 11, 2007, 07:07 PM
Its true that you have 10 rings and according to it 10 akatsuki (main) members.
one ring was taken by oro, and seemingly its necessairy to have a ring to be an aka.
It was said that whoever catched a bijuu could claim it, or its power (thats the way i understood it).
Deidara was happy with shukaku, and itachi wants seemingly the kyuubi. Hidan should have been given the nibis power, but didnt show it for whatever reason there may be in his last fight.
Well there might be only 9 bijuus, but one ring might be there to rule them all ;-)

enlightened monkey
March 11, 2007, 07:15 PM
Not quite. You see, Hidan never had the power because the Akatsuki are still busy capturing bijuu before they even render them into each member -- or for whatever purposes they have for the bijuu. It isn't quite as if they catch a bijuu and stuff it into a member....they're either using all the bijuu for a single purpose or capturing them all before putting them into each member.

Each member is "assigned" a bijuu or jinchuuriki, remember. It's not like they have any preference or Kisame would have been all over the 3-tails.

......there's not many times I do this, but I honestly have no agreeing shred in my body when it comes to this ring theory. I mean.....well, that's about the only way I can put it.

AL: "Akatsuki Ring Ultimate Power ACTIVATE!!!"

*Akatsuki gather round and slam rings into one another*

Itachi: "Form of....."

AL: "YONDY!!!!"

Seriously. Perhaps the rings serve a purpose but....I don't think they're quite connected to the bijuu.

Gahh
March 11, 2007, 07:34 PM
Agreed.
We can only speculate why there are only 10 rings and why after oro left no new member did replace him.
We can only speculate how they are going to use the bijuus power at all, as we have never really seen it.
True but maybe Hidan did just not know how to activate the ring and kakuzu had no bijuu yet ? ;-D
These rings appear to have some "time space" or "projection" jutsu on them, this might also allow access to the power of the bijuu in some form. Maybe the chakra flows only little by little ?

They sealed already one bijuu when oro was still with them. that was stated i think in the gaara rescue ark( we needed last time with the help of orochimaru 3 days to seal a bijuu). It would be nice work if kishi spread clues about oros immortality jutsu in unrelated arks.

On the other hand, why did oro bother to keep his own ring ? As this was certain to cause trouble for him.

Ok i realise im jumping here from conclusions to conclusions ...

I'm really curious what kishi is going to do next.

Raseru
March 12, 2007, 12:42 AM
Nice :kkthumbs thanks for the review! ^^

juUnior
March 12, 2007, 06:33 AM
Nice review enlightened monkey ^^



Could Sasuke wipe out his clan now? Well with Itachi in it, the answer's no. Without him? Who knows, but perhaps with a sword in his hand like Itachi he'd have a good chance.

In my opinion, and seeing how this "1000" or more ninjas was wiped out by Saske, I could say he would be able (like you said, without Itachi).

I also think, that that panel with the girl and Gyounmaru in Oro's world is defiently to show, that people, which were somewhere in the past, are here. So for me it's the girl form the time, when Oro fight Sandaime. That's all.

cherryenchanted
March 20, 2007, 01:05 PM
Thanks for the review!!!

I like that part in the manga chapter wherein Itachi & Orochimaru's past had been shown, but it's just short...

theshizzle
March 23, 2007, 05:55 AM
i would think so