あの術を使うなよ。。。

There are many strong willed arguments over this little phrase.

Do you think Jiraiya was talking about Kyuubi? Can the word jutsu refer to the Kyuubi's chakra? Does it seem like it's a tiny little phrase that was overanalyzed by Naruto fans? Do the Japanese Naruto fans have a concept of Naruto using a dangerous new jutsu that isn't the Kyuubi? Do you think Kishimoto intended for this line to become ambiguous so that fanboys would argue about it?

Looking back, would you change the translation of やる to do or perform?

Thanks for your time fellas.

Damn that Kishimoto for writing あの術 all the time.

Eh, for a complete literal translation, "Do not do that technique(jutsu)". Since that sounds off in Engish, most people said, "Don't use that technique", or whatever the various translations were.

Personally, it's a stupid way to foreshadow Naruto doing some amazingly "dangerous" technique that is ultra powerful. I haven't kept up with the series, but expect a technique of SSJ3 level proportions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leech

Do you think Kishimoto intended for this line to become ambiguous so that fanboys would argue about it?

---

Yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leech

Looking back, would you change the translation of やる to do or perform?

---

It's all the same: do, use, perform... it can't be the kyuubi thing as it happened, though, because Naruto wasn't even aware that it had happened before.

It's something he can consciously do.

This does not eliminate the possibility that the jutsu releases the Kyuubi's chakra and exploits it for some purpose - it's just not what happened.

As always with "quick-to-create-mysteries-slow-to-solve-them" Kishimoto, by the time "that jutsu" is revealed nobody will give a fuck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leech

Do you think Kishimoto intended for this line to become ambiguous so that fanboys would argue about it?

---

Well, he did intend for it to be ambiguous on some level...

I don't know that you can really say whether or not Naruto's Kyuubi form was being referred to as "that jutsu" by Jiraiya. Typically, I don't think you'd call it a "jutsu", but hey, who knows. After all, Jiraiya's warning and everything else would make sense if it was referring to the Kyuubi form, even if the usage of the word "jutsu" does sound a bit off. In the end, no amount of debate over the matter is going to convince any of the more obsessive fans one way or the other. We'll just have to wait and see if Naruto has something more up his sleeves.

But on the subject of "jutsu", I do partially take issue with many people suggesting that "jutsu" is perfectly synonymous with the English "technique". Particularly for ninjutsu, typically in dictionaries you'd see that use of "jutsu" clumped together with words like 魔術 or 妖術... in other words, there exists a sense of "jutsu" which is semantically much more in line with "magic", "arcane arts", "supernatural powers", etc, etc, as opposed to the worldly and scientific sounding "technique"... Granted, as with many other fictional worlds (or just language in general), the "meanings" of words is influenced greatly by the specific lore and context of the story, and so "jutsu" in Naruto may not be intended to have as much "supernatural" connotation... but still, I just had to get this off my chest.

Eh, there's a technique to everything, whether it be how you cast your spells using arcane arts, or how you use your supernatural powers. There's a technique to it. That's how I take jutsu in those connotations.

Besides, they are technically 'techniques' in Naruto considering there actually is a "scientific" explanation for how the jutsu are performed. They use/mold chakra in different manners to various different outcomes. How you mold the chakra is just another technique.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zindryr

Eh, there's a technique to everything, whether it be how you cast your spells using arcane arts, or how you use your supernatural powers. There's a technique to it. That's how I take jutsu in those connotations.

---

Yes, but the difference between "technique" and, for instance, "magical spell" or "jutsu" (as in 術をかける), is that "technique" is used to refer more so to the specific technical method or implementation, where as "spell" or "jutsu", or the other such words with supernatural connotation, would can be used to refer not just to the technique itself, but also the results of the technique. The "magical/supernatural manifestation", if you will.

Quote:

---

Besides, they are technically 'techniques' in Naruto considering there actually is a "scientific" explanation for how the jutsu are performed. They use/mold chakra in different manners to various different outcomes. How you mold the chakra is just another technique.

---

I tried to allude to in my post that the contextual usage of "jutsu" within Naruto is, in the end, the most important component to the interpretation of the term. And yes, there is a more "scientific" explanation of "jutsu" in the world of Naruto. But still, I think the still very much so active, potentially "supernatural" usage of "jutsu" in Japanese is something that needs to be considered in the interpretation of the word... That's part of the "context" too, in the end.

Also, while this admittedly wasn't all that clear, please understand, my little rant wasn't so much directed at you specifically, but instead at other people who I have seen declare that "jutsu" is perfectly synonymous with "technique", period, and then continue to develop their arguments based only around their understanding of the English word "technique"... Just a little pet-peeve of mine, I suppose.


Anywho... Back on the main subject, while I personally think Jiraiya's "that jutsu" referred to something other than Naruto's Kyuubi-form, if I were to play devil's advocate and argue otherwise, I would probably make the case that "that jutsu" was being used in more of a euphemistic fashion. While one, in the context of Naruto, probably wouldn't typically refer to the Kyuubi-form as a "jutsu", in the context of where Jiraiya said what he said, something like "don't turn into the Kyuubi" etc, etc, also wouldn't have been all that intelligent a thing to say, what with all the "on-hearers" and what not...

And as for the Kyuubi-form not being voluntary, I would point out that, based on more recent chapters, it's probably reasonable to say that going Kyuubi is a passively-conscious decision on Naruto's part. He doesn't say, "OK! I'm going Kyuubi now!" and "tah-dah", but he does have the ability to resist it, and that does, on some level, make the Kyuubi form a semi-conscious, semi-voluntary "jutsu" of sorts.

Are there arguments about this among Japanese fans? Do they hold an idea of a That Jutsu that isn't the Kyuubi powers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leech

Are there arguments about this among Japanese fans? Do they hold an idea of a That Jutsu that isn't the Kyuubi powers?

---

actually I don't think the typical Japanese person reads or thinks about what's happeneing as the fans that frequent message boards do... :p

haha in general yeah

There are some forums such as 2ch.net who post Sakura murder fan art... so we are not the most extreme fans of Naruto

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by njt

actually I don't think the typical Japanese person reads or thinks about what's happeneing as the fans that frequent message boards do... :p

---

I totally agree...but it all depends how old they are tooo

The age of people in 2ch.net varies just like the age of people on MH or NF that dwell on these theories a lot...

I didnt even think twice about this. I didnt think it was a big deal...