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unohana in same tier as isshin,urahara and coQuote:
Originally Posted by shaheer
did i miss the part where unohana didnt just sit and knit or heal people but did some work. must have missed her fighting par with aizen or overpowering espadas.
i dont buy the unohana hype just me maybe im cynic after fan hype of vizards (apart from shinji) altho now they gone to been underestimated.
I have to actually agree with shaheer on Unohana's placement. The hype is big enough. Kubo should know this. When we finally get to see her fight she's going to be fighting someone on a whole nother level then the espada. I won't even be surprised if she loses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hystzen
nah not on tier with urahara isshin or kyo/ukitake ... weaker than them... but not as weak as the normal captain....btw i dun mean capt lvl is weak...just weak in comparison basis ...Quote:
unohana in same tier as isshin,urahara and co
she was sent to Hueco mondo remember...i doubt yama would send her if he wasnt sure that she could properly defend herself...
though healing is her greater forte....atleast these are my op :sweat
According to the stats she is about Shusui's level and also she is way older and has more experience. She seems to be Captain even before Shunsui and Ukitake and they have been Captains for 1000 years, hence it's quite logical that she is stronger than them. And also they have not only extreme respect for her, but also fear her a bit, as it was shown in turn back the pendulumn arc.
I'd say she is between Isshin and Kyoraku.
the thing is she is the HEAD OF HEALING SQUAD...so if you do annoy her she will make your life hell by either making the healing painfull or not at all. would you annoy your docotor ?
its just after all the hype i can she her been not as good people believe her shikai is a healing stingray :oh that is shikai gone not build for attacking...so what is bankai ...she gota have the most hax bankai in the whole bleach verse or she WILL suck..
people better not get hopes up ;)
Hystzen
As we saw from Yama, Aizen and Isshin Shinigami are not only about their Zanpaktou.
You should take in account their skills in Kidou, swordsplay, shunpou, raw power, intellect and experience. Especially take in consideration that she was Captain even before Shunsui and Ukitake graduated from Shinigami Academy 1000 years ago. So she should be at least stronger than each of them. I'd say that Aizen and Isshin are stronger than her, but she is at least considerably strong.
Yama..shikai sets fire to anything he wants and burns area around himQuote:
Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon
Aizen- illusion
Isshin - GT
them 3 you mention have ATTACK power shikai and back to up with like you said with the other skills.
but more important we have seen them fight
unohana- healing stingray......
not fought or even drawn a sword at someone
only think we got bout unohana is smart comments and kubo claiming this and that...
I think some of you here are seriously overestimating the importance of age. It's certainly a factor to consider but it's not the end-all, be-all way of gauging a shinigami's strength. For example, I don't think Yamamoto is powerful cause he's old as hell, I think he's strong cause he's Yamamoto. Matter fact he was probably stronger when he was younger.
People need to stop claiming that captains x, y, and z are the strongest because they have the most experience too; cause let's face it, what do captains spend the overwhelming majority of their time doing? They're not fighting, that's for certain. I don't even see most of them training hard either. The only ones that do train are the ones that have a particular motivation to become stronger (e.g. the vaizards over the last 100 years, or the current Toushirou that wants to become strong enough to protect Momo). Really though it's mostly the VCs and Ichigo's crew that seem to be making the most upward progress. It's likely that a lot of the older shinigami captains hit their limits a long time ago as well.
We know that Unohana is considerably strong because she's a captain, but nothing suggests she's better than the "mid level gatekeeper" captains (as Primecut would say) at this point.
Hystzen
I don't know her shikai for sure, but if it's that big flying creature from SS Arc that it can attack for sure. We don't know the extent of her Zan abilities, but as I said it's not only about their zan abilities all strong Shinigamies are strong because they are strong and not because of their Zans. Their Zans only make them even more stronger. Yama showed great abilities and could crush Wondy with bare hands. Isshin only had to use Getsuga when Aizen began his evolution. Aizen is really damn strong and Gin stated that he is not only about his Zan.
And of course we didn't see Unohana fighting, so we can't say for sure if she is stronger or weaker than someone, but according from the stats from databooks and the expresions of Shunsui and Ukitake of her in turn back the pendulumn we can say that she is at least on their level.
El Samurai Guapo
I don't say that age is everything, but in fact if you see practically everyone who is older is stronger in Bleach, with the exeption of Ichigo and Aizen, but Ichigo is the main hero and Aizen is a troll, so we don't have to take them in consideration.:)
Also I'd say that the Captains who are older had more time to become proficient in Shinigami skills. You are not born strong and this also goes for Yama. He sure had a great zan and was good and promising, but he had to train and risk his life for more than 2000 years to become Yama we know. I don't say that Unohana is strong, because she is older, but she is strong and had more time to become proficient in all Shinigami arts.
And abnout experience... it's really important even in Bleach as Yama showed to Aizen and also as Kyoraku and Isshin showed. Even if you are strong the one who is smarter and more experienced can win a fight against you.
Yeah they had more time, but I doubt it took a millennium for them to hit their genkai. Yamamoto probably peaked long ago, and Shunsui and Juushirou are also probably at their shinigami limits as well. As we saw from Aizen a shinigami can reach his peak at a relatively young age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon
More importantly though Yamamoto was born with a higher limitation than virtually anyone. He himself states this. All the training in the world wouldn't have made a difference otherwise.Quote:
He sure had a great zan and was good and promising, but he had to train and risk his life for more than 2000 years to become Yama we know. I don't say that Unohana is strong, because she is older, but she is strong and had more time to become proficient in all Shinigami arts.
The point I was trying to make is that being a captain longer doesn't equate to more battle experience. Kenpachi had probably been in more fights than many of the captains before he even became a shinigami. Likewise Urahara Kisuke, as head of the detention unit in the omnitsukido, probably go to see more action on a regular than captains. Captains are normally the last resort for defending Seireitei and are not on the front lines. Hence they spend the majority of the time doing nothing and attending pointless meetings. Or in Shunsui's case being a lazy drunk womanizer. Hell Ukitake Juushirou is sick the majority of the time and let's his subordinates run his division (see Kaien's conversation with Rukia), yet he's still a captain.Quote:
And abnout experience... it's really important even in Bleach as Yama showed to Aizen and also as Kyoraku and Isshin showed. Even if you are strong the one who is smarter and more experienced can win a fight against you.
El Samurai Guapo
In fact it's really difficult to say if there is someone exept Yama or maybe Unohana at their Genkai. I can agree that Joushiro and Uki maybe not far from the limit, but we should also take in account such things as Kidou that you learn and train during big perioud of time. So, they may become stronger, though it's really difficult to tell as we didn't even see their Bankais.Quote:
Yeah they had more time, but I doubt it took a millennium for them to hit their genkai. Yamamoto probably peaked long ago, and Shunsui and Juushirou are also probably at their shinigami limits as well. As we saw from Aizen a shinigami can reach his peak at a relatively young age.
He just states that there wasn't any stronger Shinigami in SS to take his place. Not because he had the greatest limits, but because their were no other good candidates. We don't know for sure all the history of SS. Also about the limits... it's like in real life, everything depends on the person. If he wants to train he can become stronger and stronger. We only heard from Aizen about the limits, but he was a great troll. He also stated that Hougioku only grants you what you can achieve by yourself, hence he could have become stronger.Quote:
More importantly though Yamamoto was born with a higher limitation than virtually anyone. He himself states this. All the training in the world wouldn't have made a difference otherwise.
I understand your point, but in fact Kenpachi is an exeption, but in majority in Bleach the older you are the more experienced you are. It was also shown in the last arc, when the older and stronger Captains used only Shikais, when others needed Bankai to keep up with their opponents.Quote:
The point I was trying to make is that being a captain longer doesn't equate to more battle experience. Kenpachi had probably been in more fights than many of the captains before he even became a shinigami. Likewise Urahara Kisuke, as head of the detention unit in the omnitsukido, probably go to see more action on a regular than captains. Captains are normally the last resort for defending Seireitei and are not on the front lines. Hence they spend the majority of the time doing nothing and attending pointless meetings. Or in Shunsui's case being a lazy drunk womanizer. Hell Ukitake Juushirou is sick the majority of the time and let's his subordinates run his division (see Kaien's conversation with Rukia), yet he's still a captain.
P.S. I understand your point and I'm not argueing, because I want to, I just want to show that in fact the more they train, the more they live, the more they develop their abilities (in Kidou, in swordsplay, in hand-to-hand combat, in Shumpou, especially with their Zanpaktous). Of course there are prodigies like Ichi and some others, but it's exeption, not the rule. It's like in real life. Of course Unohana won't be strong, because she is older, but my point was that the age benefits you, not always, but in majority of the situations.
i think the fearing thing is more like a gag... sakura punches naruto all the time ... does that make hr more powerful than naruto???
them scared of her is just a pun or a gag.. if you are gonna make that a point of argument to decide their strength then you are welcomed but then i have nothing more to say ... its the way ppl look at things...i dun think kubo will make her out to be stronger than ukitake or kyoraku or urahara...i mean they are combat type...if healers become strongert than the combatants,...then whats so sp abt combat type zan ??
she never showed any thing what so ever to prove her strength...but she still is one of the oldest captain... so at best she gets as strong as yoro...if i am not hyping up too much.....
not stronger than ukitake or kyoraku ...thats what i can infer from the level of ability exposed.....
and shinigami has i d say 3-4 ways of proving his/ her strength... zan...shunpo ...kido...hand to hand combat....
her zan wass that big creature... i vent seen her doing any sunpo...but i think she will be good at it...being so experienced and all..
we havnet seen her use kido but that doenst man she is bad..i d say she is above decent ..... and i am particularly sure that she wont be exceptional with the hand to hand combat...
yama had all 4 top notch ... so it wasnt much a difference for him to crush WW with or without the zan...
lets face it she is a healer...the best of SS...that makes her enough powerful... no one said you will kameha me ha from two ends and the one standing will be the more powerful... thats not the way to decide on the character strength... she has her speciality and she is very good at it..that makes her quite powerful...
I expect unohana to be stronger than a shikai Shunsui. She was a teacher, meaning she had to know what she's talking about. Every teacher at the academy we know about were exceptionally skilled ( Yama, Aizen). She's very intelligent and perceptive. Also her DB stats are very high. In particular the DB praised her offensive skills. Another thing is, Kubo said her hobby is kendo.
Overall I think unohana is going to be a very strong kendo user, who uses her sealed sword (since her shikai sucks), kido and her intelligence to dominate her opponent.
- who I'm really interested in though is Yoruichi. She's incredibly strong just using shunko. We haven't even seen shunko's full capabilities. Its my own believe that shunko can double as a strong defensive skill, since It concentrates reiastu in a similar fashion to an arrancars hierro. Than she has shikai and bankai. What's most interesting is the fact that she hasn't trained for a 100 years. Imagine if she did. She may be a good deal stronger than what she is now. Her reiastu could of been higher, her speed faster, her punches stronger and she could of developed more shunpo's techniques.
Interesting and not bad as well. The one who made this chart knows his stuff pretty much Though Love is way to low on the Hoho stat. He tagged stark. His reiatsu is too low as well. He swats away primera level cero's effortlessly.Gin's reiatsu should be higher he tanked a gt only to emerge with a scratch on his forehead. Hiyori's zanjutsu should be at the level of ichigo atleast. Byakuya and toshiro are to high on the Hoho part. Toshiro has barely any feats. If Skills and teqniques are counted as well then byakuya's should be a bit lower. Yoruichi's skill is inferior to that of byakuya and soifon's though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer
Yammy's defence is heavily overestimated. Getting damaged by attacks such as soukaitsu. Stark's defence should be lower. Barragan's sonido should be on pair with that of stark. Halibel's sonido should be a good deal lower. Grimmjow's defence is heavily underestimated In his last brawl with ichigo he palmed Tensa zangetsu and emerges only with little drops of blood in hand in base. While he released he takes no damage from a gt and he can take vizard TZ without damage with his enhanced hierro. Grimjoww's zanjutsu should with that of ulquiorra and ulquiorra's should be on pair with that of halibel. Grimjoww's sonido is way to low. He still blitzed the dude that can blitz the dude that reacted to toshiro's sneak attack. Grimjoww should have an higher offence he can effortlessly impale vizard ichigo barehanded and sent him flying for 100's of metres.
It's pretty accurate for the most of it.