I really like the pace of this chapter, it had a little of everything, even hiramaru :D.
And the ending with that superb final speech by ashirogi.
Nanamine had everything to fail, so it will.
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I really like the pace of this chapter, it had a little of everything, even hiramaru :D.
And the ending with that superb final speech by ashirogi.
Nanamine had everything to fail, so it will.
man, nakai is the absolute villain in this manga. He's just too gross and pathetic. Even Nanamine is grossed out by this character.
I wanna see Hiramaru get really motivated this time, even if it's just so he can impress Aiko.
About Nanamine, I'm expecting a turn-around. Either he'll realize he's wrong and will become a true-blue mangaka, or try to be an assistant, or something else. That is, if his manga will get axed and be creamed by PCP. By the looks of it, Ashirogi will crush his manga like they said. I have no problems with it being too swift a battle but because of the speed, there must be some twist to Nanamine that we won't be expecting.
Its true that his downfall went fast but at the same time i dont think I would have enjoyed it as much if it was spread over 3-4 chapter of seeing him fall in the rank every week...it has much more impact this way cause we see that there was no way this idea would ever have worked
Well, then your argument that Kosugi is a "bad editor" is pointless because all the other editors have final approval on the storyboards.(you can switch the argument to saying all Jump editors are bad if you want) And that totally is the editor's job! It's the editor's job to make sure the work being produced is appropriate for Jump. If the editor didn't check/approve the work and it gets published full of swear words or controversial subject matter, the editor will be in big trouble. Kosugi is actually being a bad editor by not having final approval.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reclaimer
This is Hiramaru we're talking about. Fatalism is his drive, happiness his poison. He only writes good manga when utterly depressed. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by baboysai
I can totally expect Yoshida to do his damnest to make his life miserable heheh.
Doesn't change the fact that all the other editors check/approve the storyboards before proceeding.(Well, except Yujiro with Eiji at the beginning where it was mentioned that Yujiro is a shitty editor by Fukuda)
No, it doesn't, but it is also meaningless.Quote:
Originally Posted by akoftroy
If you didn't get it, the distinction is:
Is this publishable? vs. Is this good?
An editor can say "You can't do this" for the first case and have absolute power, but can only say that as advice in the second case.
An editor can do whatever the heck he wants. The artist is an employee to the editor(through the magazine) and assuming the editor in chief backs the editor up, there's nothing the artist can do. The artist's contract likely says the artist is only paid when the pages are "accepted" by the editor. I don't even know what you're arguing about. We've seen tons of scenes with Hattori looking over Ashirogi's storyboard and giving them the OK! Or there's the scene with Nakai bitching that Aida gave the okay on an Aoki storyboard that was shitty. If editors don't have the final say, the artists could cause problems for the magazine. Then again... Kubo's editor approves pages that have no art on them! Wonder if Kubo still gets his $5000 or so for those pages?
oyosQuote:
Originally Posted by Reclaimer
my back in the day is 15 years ago when i first got into anime and manga. as far as animes go, the best example of the arcs/fights that dragged on forever is dbz. if you want a more recent example, in naruto the 'second arc' where they end up fighting zabuza and haku, lasted from chapter 9 to chapter 33; the last fight between the groups went from chapter 22 to chapter 33... however you have a fight more recent, danzo vs madara then sasuke which only lasted from chapter 475 to chapter 481. that's pretty much half the amount of time a fight goes for in the manga now compared to when it started over 10 years ago. this shortening of arcs and battles has happened to all shounen jump series. i haven't read enough other magazines to know how the pace has changed.
as for an editor pulling a 'i have the last say' on a series, it's no different than a teacher or parent telling a child this. it's not that they are being bossy, but as the more knowledgable/experienced and are merely trying to make sure that things are being done the right way or with good quality. a teacher who doesn't teach is a bad teacher, a parent that doesn't raise their child is a poor parent, an editor that doesn't do anything other than turn in a manuscript without editing (with the author) isn't an editor.
if this arc doesn't end in the next chapter, i would like to see nanamine actually start creating on his own, even if he still disregards kosugi and stop his incredibly fast decline but get stuck in the lower rankings where he will eventually get cancelled due to consistent low ranking. i would also prefer nanamine to quit after all of this too... i don't know, it's not like we have keep every new character who joins the manga scene sticking around. you gotta have a failure/quitter every once in a while.
I actually quite like Drakonim's theory. Even if it wouldn't negate the fact that making Nanamine's series fail that quickly was too rushed and unrealistic, it would be a nice turn of events, imo. I wonder how many of his circle will actually stay on beyond this point though, and who will stick with him at all. Or, if Nanamine will actually turn over a new leaf and get rid of them and be a "proper" mangaka.
It's true that it's odd that practically every new character introduced stays on, but a lot of them are like, trying to get serializations and not actually serialized, so I guess Jump has enough space.
As for the issue about whether editors have the last say, I would say that a good editor will not insist on having the final say. I think a good editor should listen to what the mangaka says. If he disagrees, they should discuss it rationally and work from there. An editor has more experience (in general), sure, but that doesn't mean the mangaka himself can't have a brainwave or something. They should listen to each other and know where the other is coming from and decide the path of the manga together instead of fighting.
Back in the early days of Yugioh, it focused on multiple games and changed every few chapters. Takahashi wanted to do some weird game but the editor was like "Nah... Do more of that card game from earlier, that was pretty popular." Takahashi succumbed and now he's probably the richest mangaka in history. The editor said "If he really didn't want to do what I told him, he would have fought back and convinced me. Since he didn't, he wasn't that passionate about what he wanted." That's a fight that would have cost Takahashi a billion dollars, lol!
That's not the only example of an editor giving good advice and resulting in a part of a manga receiving high praise. Similar thing happened to Rurouni Kenshin - Watsuki's editor was the one who told him he ought to do a long arc and that's what became the Kyoto arc, arguably the best arc in Rurouni Kenshin.
Still, I maintain that an editor should not INSIST that the mangaka do as he pleases. In both your example and mine, the mangaka did what the editor told him, and it was right (but who knows how many examples there could be out there of editors being wrong?), but from the sounds of it, neither editor INSISTED on having his way. It wasn't a case of like, "I think you should do XXX and if you don't, imma reject it". Both Watsuki and Takahashi sounded like they were agreeable.
Well, rumors say that it's Kishimoto's editor who insists on giving so much screen time (well...panel time) to Sasuke, so screw editors :P
You may further discuss the roles of editors, how much say they should have in the writing of a manga etc in this thread :) Try to keep the disc/pred thread for discussions related to the chapter itself :amuse - saladesu