theories and ideas

So, I have been watching some clips that have had some significance in the series, such as Allen awakening the Crowned Clown, then him getting the sword. Then I had some thoughts about what could happen or the future of the series. The only people who would know what I am referring to have to really been keeping up with the series. Some suggestions are just badass to picture.

First, a sword fight between the Earl and Allen. We know it's coming. It's inevitable. But it is badass.

Next, I though of how the Earl had a sword like Allen's. I wondered how that happened. And something that fell into that was two things. First point is that Neah wants to become the Earl. Secondly, the Earl said he lost to the Heart loooong ago. How he lost was never referred to. Which made me wonder. What if the Earl was the owner of the Heart at first? What if he became the Earl, and the Heart saw this and fought back, killing him. All this is in speculation of if Allen is the owner of the Heart. If Allen is, a theory supporting the Earl was the first owner can be considered valid. This explains the sword as well, seeing as how the swords are the same. Through some unknown mean, maybe the Noah DNA in the Earl, he was able to use his power to copy an image of the sword. This would also set up a continuality thing, as Neah wants to become the Earl. If he were to be successful, the Heart would kill Allen, and Neah would be reborn as the Earl. When Allen awoke his full innocence against Tyki, Road saw Allen standing there, then she saw the Earl too. The sword could be a reminder, or something deeper.

One thing that is interesting is how Tyki (Joido) looks exactly like Neah. This apparently has a significant meaning, supported by how Tyki has taken such an interest in Allen and how they have met on different occasions and on each occasion, amazing things have happened (Crowned Clown sword was awoken by Tyki, Tyki destroyed Allen's innocence, Allen awake and enraged the Noah Tyki was suppressing).

Something else is how things have started reacting to Neah. Some people claim that when the Crowned Clown first awoke and he ripped up the akuma, it gave him the information because of it. It's not. The first is when he stabbed himself and the level 4 with his sword. The creepy face he gave and Noah's reaction was the first time the 14th actually surfaced. Before then, it was just his shadow. Neah has made a few appearances since then, including when Kanda stabbed him and even in direct combat with the Earl, even stating he will kill him and become the Earl. Another thing is Road. It is unknown if she is just playing around with Allen, although the kiss is reeeeeally playing around, although she could have genuine attraction to him, Neah could be influencing that by influencing that.

here's some theories
in the noah family neah and tyki are twins except tyki didn't go against the earl!!!
neah and heart defeated the earl 7000 years ago
because the earl loves neah so much he revives neah maybe messes with his memories , but neah loves mana and humans so it didn't work
unfortunately neah didn't have the heart's help, so he gets killed by the earl
neah is convinced by now, the earls got to be defeated once and for all
that's why the heart and neah can't meet
Earl's a dummy, the only thing he wants is the 14th, but he can't have it
So he's gonna be relieved to die in the end
Finally his spirit can pass on

of course now the story's gotten complicated

that would imply Mana and Tyki are related.

i dont think Neah killed him did, the betrayal happened 35 years ago before the story. someone or something else battled the Earl.

the Earl is clearly upset witht he betrayal, but wants him dead nonetheless.

Neah's intentions are relatively unknown, only knowing that he wants to be the Earl is actually out there. Who is is concerned for, if anyone, is unknown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InnocenceExorcist

that would imply Mana and Tyki are related.

i dont think Neah killed him did, the betrayal happened 35 years ago before the story. someone or something else battled the Earl.

the Earl is clearly upset witht he betrayal, but wants him dead nonetheless.

Neah's intentions are relatively unknown, only knowing that he wants to be the Earl is actually out there. Who is is concerned for, if anyone, is unknown.

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not blood twins, noah twins
14th intentions is key to everything
haha

possibly. but i do not think his intentions are as innocent as to just want the earl gone

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InnocenceExorcist

possibly. but i do not think his intentions are as innocent as to just want the earl gone

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I suppose . ah who knows, maybe the 14th caused the Great Flood O_O
Let's see here are a few pieces

Earl looks like Mana
[COLOR="rgb(255, 0, 255)"]Tyki looks like Nea[/COLOR]
[COLOR="rgb(255, 0, 255)"]Allen has Tim's arm [/COLOR]( I believe there is a possibility Allen was not born with innocence - in fact all the other exorcists are not)
[COLOR="rgb(255, 0, 255)"]Tim belongs to 14th[/COLOR]
[COLOR="rgb(255, 0, 255)"]the 14th song was made for Allen
[/COLOR]
these are no coincidences
asmentioned in forums hoshino sensei goes out of her way to put a variety of faces into d.grayman (whats wrong with a full cast of bishie)
continue later

the earl looks like mana? i have to disagree with that, mainly on the part that the only interaction they ever had was when allen called him back, and mana was always shown from behind, or as a clown.

what do you mean "allen has tims arm?" the other exorcists have equipment type. allens is parasite. he could have been born with it, or he could have been introduced to it and it fused to him due to compatability. both possibilities are equally possible, using two examples:

1- timothy was forced to eat the then unknown innocence, and he bonded with it.

2. i do believe it has been stated that he was abandoned by his parents due to his arm, which means he was born with the innocence. this is the one i think is more likely

tim does not belong to the 14th. the golem is the orders, but remember, tim was with cross, who was one of the 14ths closest friends. so chances are, tim was give the song by the 14th, and mana taught it to an unknowning allen. but the golem is crosses.

i do not think the 14ths song was made for allen. it was the song neah used to be able to control the ark, and he realized it had to be passed down to allen, by means of the above statement

well maybe not the 14th song/ melody, but the lyrics of the song
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpo...8&postcount=33
as illusion410 says, allen seems to be the only one with silver eyes in the manga

sorry i meant to say allen has timcanpy's arm
http://www.mangareader.net/210-15095...chapter-4.html
this monster look a lot time timcanpy if he morphed
and allen's arm seems to be the one he's missing
hoshino sensei also once said her pet who had a limp and a problems walking was like timcampi - perhaps pointing to tim's missing limb, which we dont notice when he's a chibi ball
( found it on wiki- its not there any more , but if you search far enough in history... okay well anyways whether or not its true, allen's arm looks like monster tim's)

http://www.mangareader.net/210-15223...apter-132.html
14th says tim's his
cross could have very well made it for the 14th

here's mana in the reverse 3 novel
post by relory
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpo...7&postcount=78

and earl recently revealed human form
http://www.mangareader.net/210-38147...apter-188.html
hope i didn't miss anything!><

hmm, he may know about timcampy and the song he carries. that one is actually a bit cryptic.

the timcampy thing still makes no sense, the cover is just allen and an akuma.


and it is curious that they look alike, although, i doubt it means anything, since when allen summoned him as an akuma, the two were clearly different entities.

haha well I can't prove the monster is timcanpi, but allen's arm looks like it belongs on the monster and monster has a short stub of an arm
if we just attach allen's arm there, he'd be complete

if that's true, then the 14th has a bigger connection with innocence then we thought

all speculation of course

well, thats also a picture from the beginning of the story, so while it possible, I do think its just an akuma

I think there's another possibility about the odd-looking monster. There is a theory that Allen's Innocence is an Apocryphos: maybe that monster is supposed to be that Apocryphos. Although it does rather look like Tim in some ways.

I would like to go into further discussion about what the Millennium Earl calls the Apocryphos. Mainly, I would like to know what everyone thinks about the motives of the Apocryphos.

The origin of Innocence was explained by Komui as it being a single mass of some holy sort of substance, which then broke apart into pieces. This lead me to believe that perhaps the ultimate goal of The Cardinal is to absorb all of the pieces together once more.

Perhaps the function of the Exorcists is to help the Innocence become more powerful and evolve. When Cardinal was about to absorb Allen, he said something along the lines of "You really have become a beautiful Exorcist". So maybe it was about time to take Allen in, since he had already carried out his function. This idea sprouted from the Earl claiming that "No one knows the true meaning of the Akuma evolving"... Well maybe no one knows the true meaning of the Exorcists evolving.

Another theory that strikes me is that Cardinal is purely Innocence acting on its own. If Innocence is able to imitate humans so well, then that causes me to suspect Allen of being one as well. I mean, he just HAPPENS to be born with his Innocence and has no recollection of his parents? It seems strange. Allen may be an Apocrypho that is completely unaware that he is one. He was so immersed in mimicking humans that he's all but become one. And the fact that Neah has attached his memory to Allen may be a strategy and not mere coincidence.

The biggest piece of information that discredits ^^^that theory is Komui explicitly mentioning that "only humans may be cursed by Akuma".

So I'm interested in everyone's ideas.
What is the motive behind the Apocryphos?
Are they just using the Exorcists to evolve and ultimately absorb Innocence fragments?
Is it possible that Allen is an Apocryphos?
How many Apocryphos are there exactly?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naomidee

I would like to go into further discussion about what the Millennium Earl calls the Apocryphos. Mainly, I would like to know what everyone thinks about the motives of the Apocryphos.

The origin of Innocence was explained by Komui as it being a single mass of some holy sort of substance, which then broke apart into pieces. This lead me to believe that perhaps the ultimate goal of The Cardinal is to absorb all of the pieces together once more.

Perhaps the function of the Exorcists is to help the Innocence become more powerful and evolve. When Cardinal was about to absorb Allen, he said something along the lines of "You really have become a beautiful Exorcist". So maybe it was about time to take Allen in, since he had already carried out his function. This idea sprouted from the Earl claiming that "No one knows the true meaning of the Akuma evolving"... Well maybe no one knows the true meaning of the Exorcists evolving.

Another theory that strikes me is that Cardinal is purely Innocence acting on its own. If Innocence is able to imitate humans so well, then that causes me to suspect Allen of being one as well. I mean, he just HAPPENS to be born with his Innocence and has no recollection of his parents? It seems strange. Allen may be an Apocrypho that is completely unaware that he is one. He was so immersed in mimicking humans that he's all but become one. And the fact that Neah has attached his memory to Allen may be a strategy and not mere coincidence.

The biggest piece of information that discredits ^^^that theory is Komui explicitly mentioning that "only humans may be cursed by Akuma".

So I'm interested in everyone's ideas.
What is the motive behind the Apocryphos?
Are they just using the Exorcists to evolve and ultimately absorb Innocence fragments?
Is it possible that Allen is an Apocryphos?
How many Apocryphos are there exactly?

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Wow, you raise some very good questions and theories!!

I want to believe that there is more that one Apocryphos because that might lead to a more war-like situation between the Apos and Noah, rather than have one guy who has collected all the innocence pieces.

I really like your theory, but save for Komui's little quote, there are a couple other points i want to point out...

-Apo has directly stated that absorbing innocence makes him stronger. and there are (were) 109 pieces. Firstly, why not absorb the innocence even before it synchs with someone? or does the innocence have to reach a particular leverl first by leeching off the exorcist to grow? (much like akuma leech off the souls for power). Seeing as he has not done that with the innocence that has already been destroyed by the earl, there must be something deeper....

-On that note, if Apo becomes stronger by synching with high powered innocence, how strong must the heart be?! Apo is mad strong already (idk how though), but since the heart sits at the very top, just how strong is it?!)

-Apo also states that by fusing with Crown Clown, their power will be able to suppress the 14th's memories. If Allen and Crown Clown are separate from the 14th, then how does Apo plan on absorbing CC and sealing the 14th? For that to be done, it seems more like Apo will have to implant himself into allen rather than absorbing CC.

those are the issues that i see with your theory atm. However, i do think that your view is very, very plausible.



Did CC somehow tell Apo to fuse with Allen? Or is Apo BSing everything and forcing CC into submission just because he can? I think Apo is acting on its own, without the heart's orders, like a radical believer. He knows that the Noah are 'bad' so he is just mindlessly working against them, against allen.



If allen was an apo and thats why Neah chose him.... well, that was a smart move, except we don't know how well innocence and dark matter will work (if at all). However, that gives us two separate Apos with out a reason. It's one thing having only one Apo as heart's faithful (and radical) servant, but with two and no pattern... that's different. by pattern, i mean a plausible reason/way that allen is an Apo, a reason that doesn't just blow off all the other suspicious innocences (lenalee, timothy, Crowley)...

I'm going to post about something else that's been bugging me for a while now.

So The Earl wants to destroy the Heart. We all know that. And the Heart wants to destroy the Earl, as far as our understanding goes.

But I think there's something more to the Heart that we haven't really thought about yet. In chapter 204, Apocryphos tries to absorb Allen. It's funny that happens right after Central finds out about Allen's little near-Noah-awakening incident in the destroyed North American Branch. And just as Allen is about to be taken over yet again in the cell with Link, Apocryphos shows up and tries to erode/absorb him.

Hm...

Could it be that the Heart wants Neah's power to murder the Earl? I have a feeling that Apocryphos is not only interested in Crown Clown. He wants The Fourteenth's memory so that he can give it to the Heart.

And that is why the Millennium Earl has told all of the Noah to protect Neah from the Heart at all costs (Sheryl mentions this to Bookman).

On top of all that, I think the Pope is, or at least has in his possession, the Heart of the Innocence.