Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
The price I'm talking about has to do with battles. Rinnegan can have a big price to pay in terms of major chakra usage. Using Kyuubi's chakra has little to no price to pay. Even in Part II, it took Hinata's "death" for Naruto to even come close to removing the seal. Other than that, Naruto was in no real danger other than his life shortening.
The main reason why he didn't end up like Gaara or even Sasuke was because of his bonds. Gaara was betrayed by one person he trusted, and after that he never struck up friendship or bond with anyone until his fight with Naruto. Sasuke after being with Naruto slowly turned good until Orochimaru got to him. Naruto made good friends and was surrounded by good people, like Kakashi and Jiraiya. Two who could contain the Kyuubi in him if need be, which we saw at least once.
Naruto choosing to use the Kyuubi's chakra is still free powerup if Kyuubi's will comes with it, because Naruto doesn't need to do anything but fight normally. The Kyuubi can take care of the rest like healing him, giving him extra strength, etc. The risk hasn't been as great as made out to be thanks to Jiraiya, Kakashi, Yamato, and Minato. Until Pain, he never fought alone where there'd actually be risk.
How is that when you made the comparison to Gaara? You were comparing the severity of their experiences, but now you say you were talking about battles? I don't understand. The same thing that you said about Naruto can be applied to Gaara as well because he was far more relient in terms of battles.
You're right, bonds that Naruto made himself. why should he be discredited for that? It could have easily gone the opposite direction. Kakashi would not have been able to do Jack squat if it wasn't for Jiraiya and it took the latter 12 years to even be a factor in Naruto's life.
Once again, it's not free due to the crap that came with it just being sealed inside him, before it even started benefiting him. Just because it doesn't appear as severe as gaara's situation because Naruto was able to overcome it due to the bonds that he made, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be counted. If you don't want to count that just because it doesn't seem to have any baring on battles then, ok. The Rinnegan is Nagato's power though, because it used his chakra and he needed to train and master it. Training that we didn't see for the Rinnegan standards which is all he used outside of flashbacks. Basically, credit should be given because his chakra is a battery for the eyes. Also yamato is less of a factor if Naruto doesn't have Hashirama's neckless, which was around tsunades neck, who didn't return to Konoha until 12 years after Naruto's birth.
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jaymizzo
Hashirama will win :notamused
In a feat battle I don't think so, what he showed through Madara puts him above Kages, but still within reach of Kabuto, Tobi, EMS Madara and Naruto.
I'd be willing to put my money on the Gaikage :hip
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Nooo, Naruto will! Minato will beat Hashirama with a new jutsu his fans made up, but Naruto will speedblitz him in one shot! :derp
Naruto did actually beat Minato in the last tournament. And somehow Minato beat Itachi, which proves there's more Minato fans than Itachi fans. :cookiehand And more Jiraiya fans than Sasuke fans, who still can't come up with a legit reason why Jiraiya would beat Mangekyo Sasuke.
Other than the ridiculous hair argument.
If I recall from what you and ninjabot said, that was Sasuke without Susano'o, and only with Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.
Hair argument notwithstanding, Sage Jiraiya isn't that far behind.
Just like Yondaime isn't far behind Itachi, expecially without complete info on Itachi's part :lmao
Still kidding aside, can't it be done?
IF done right, I don't think there will be problems like in the past, just underline the right set of rules.
I caught a glimpse at the One Piece tournament, its very well done
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood
I want a Naruto tournament when the One Piece one will be finished
NO!
NOOOOOO!
Never again. I'll never be apart of another Naruto tournament. Not on MH.
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KiSwordsman
How is that when you made the comparison to Gaara? You were comparing the severity of their experiences, but now you say you were talking about battles? I don't understand. The same thing that you said about Naruto can be applied to Gaara as well because he was far more relient in terms of battles.
You're right, bonds that Naruto made himself. why should he be discredited for that? It could have easily gone the opposite direction. Kakashi would not have been able to do Jack squat if it wasn't for Jiraiya and it took the latter 12 years to even be a factor in Naruto's life.
Once again, it's not free due to the crap that came with it just being sealed inside him, before it even started benefiting him. Just because it doesn't appear as severe as gaara's situation because Naruto was able to overcome it due to the bonds that he made, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be counted. If you don't want to count that just because it doesn't seem to have any baring on battles then, ok. The Rinnegan is Nagato's power though, because it used his chakra and he needed to train and master it. Training that we didn't see for the Rinnegan standards which is all he used outside of flashbacks. Basically, credit should be given because his chakra is a battery for the eyes. Also yamato is less of a factor if Naruto doesn't have Hashirama's neckless, which was around tsunades neck, who didn't return to Konoha until 12 years after Naruto's birth.
Just because he suffered socially doesn't necessarily make it a price. It's still free powerup, and after being friends with Kyuubi, it's unarguably a free powerup because Naruto gets Kyuubi's chakra at no risk.
Get Naruto mad? Ohnoez, Kyuubi will help him out for free! Bring Naruto close to death? Whoa, the Kyuubi's gonna pulverize you for that! I don't understand why anyone thinks it's not a free powerup when Naruto himself doesn't have to work for it at all.
Irony here is, I hate Nagato and like Naruto... Part I Naruto anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Uchiha_Blood
In a feat battle I don't think so, what he showed through Madara puts him above Kages, but still within reach of Kabuto, Tobi, EMS Madara and Naruto.
I'd be willing to put my money on the Gaikage :hip
If I recall from what you and ninjabot said, that was Sasuke without Susano'o, and only with Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.
Hair argument notwithstanding, Sage Jiraiya isn't that far behind.
Just like Yondaime isn't far behind Itachi, expecially without complete info on Itachi's part :lmao
Still kidding aside, can't it be done?
IF done right, I don't think there will be problems like in the past, just underline the right set of rules.
I caught a glimpse at the One Piece tournament, its very well done
Doubt it, with how many people chose to vote for the favorites instead of who would win. I mean, how can Itachi beat Tobi when Tobi ahs Sharingan and can be intangible? Itachi doesn't have Kamui, the chakra, or an attack that allows him to get past the intangibility. The only reason I accepted it is because it's much better than 95% of the participants saying "Minato beats Tobi like he did before lololol".
In my opinion, the rules would have to be pretty limiting for it it to work. Even then, people will complain. I find it hard to believe that it'll be smooth this time around when before, there wre arguments when it came to Sasuke and Jiraiya. Funnily, Jiraiya got beaten easily whereas Sasuke would have stood a better chance. I can see Naruto winning again.
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Uchiha_Blood
If I recall from what you and ninjabot said, that was Sasuke without Susano'o, and only with Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.
Hair argument notwithstanding, Sage Jiraiya isn't that far behind.
In the tournament, Sasuke did have Susanoo, EMS Susanoo though it had yet to actually make an appearance in the manga. There really was no reason Jiraiya should have won against him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninjabot
NO!
NOOOOOO!
Never again. I'll never be apart of another Naruto tournament. Not on MH.
I would be fine with another tournament, as long as Minato and Jiraiya are paired up in the first round. Plus Madara would be involved, and he'll basically sail right through it.
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
You forget that it's a giant popularity contest. Even if Minato and Jiraiya fought eachother in the first round their fans will come to a consensus becuase everyone that's a Minato fan is a Jiraiya fan. No discussion would come from it. There's no point, lol.
All jokes aside, debate skills<<fandom. People will vote for who they want to win, not who should win.
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
People will probably say Minato beats Jiraiya because of Hiraishin and speed.
Someone even voted against Orochimaru because they hated him, if I recall. I also remember voting for Jiraiya against kakuzu just because fanboy in me told me Jiraiya would win.
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninjabot
You forget that it's a giant popularity contest. Even if Minato and Jiraiya fought eachother in the first round their fans will come to a consensus becuase everyone that's a Minato fan is a Jiraiya fan. No discussion would come from it. There's no point, lol.
All jokes aside, debate skills<<fandom. People will vote for who they want to win, not who should win.
That's the point, since it would at least get rid of one of them early off, thus removing the eventual popularity giveaway later on.
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninjabot
NO!
NOOOOOO!
Never again. I'll never be apart of another Naruto tournament. Not on MH.
:lmao
Well every tournament in every forum is more of a popularity contest than everything, yet it can be made with rules that would discourage a victory made only on popularity:
-letting the votes count only for half the winning, while the debating counts for another half.
Example:
Itachi gets 120 votes, Yondaime gets 140, yet Itachi's debaters were way more convincing and overall better, a mod then would give the win to Itachi.
The opposite would be true as well.
-making feat battles, example:
Nin/Tai/Genjutsu:
offensive
defensive
support
Stamina
intelligence
overall
to go together with the votes.
There are many ways for it to work.
This would also limit the most hyped one, Hashirama, to breeze through the tournament :lmao
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rikudou King
In the tournament, Sasuke did have Susanoo, EMS Susanoo though it had yet to actually make an appearance in the manga. There really was no reason Jiraiya should have won against him.
It basically was the Sasuke that killed Danzou then?
Yeah I see your point then :gwah
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Just because he suffered socially doesn't necessarily make it a price. It's still free powerup, and after being friends with Kyuubi, it's unarguably a free powerup because Naruto gets Kyuubi's chakra at no risk.
Get Naruto mad? Ohnoez, Kyuubi will help him out for free! Bring Naruto close to death? Whoa, the Kyuubi's gonna pulverize you for that! I don't understand why anyone thinks it's not a free powerup when Naruto himself doesn't have to work for it at all.
Irony here is, I hate Nagato and like Naruto... Part I Naruto anyway.
How so? You keep saying that. You say it's because of the bonds he had but he made those himself. You say Minato would have fixed the seal. why would that matter if Naruto ended up a crazy dude from the start, let his loneliness get the better of him and didn't make the connections that he did? You bring up Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Yamato. It took Jiraiya 12 years to be a factor, Kakashi would not have been able to do anything without the former ninja, and Yamoto is less of a factor without Hashirama's neckless. Tsunade only came back to the village because Naruto is the person he is right now.
Oh trust me, I know exactly what you mean. Nagato was my favorite member of the organization, right behind Sasori. however, as time went on Kishimoto made him look more and more like a bitch. It was not until the revelation of madara's Rinnegan that he stripped him of all credibility. Oh it was bad enough that his resolve could be swayed like it was, but then Kishimoto turned him into an absolute tool with the Kabuto incident. So basically, all he's left with in terms of credit is the utilization of Madara Uchiha's eyes. (Until stated or shown otherwise) that's crap, complete and utter crap. Oh, but credit should be given because it requires his chakra.… Sure okay. I could understand if each technique took a heavy toll. However, it took him in a while and a bunch of jutsu, broken jutsu, to get where he ended up.
Even if the fox is considered a free power because it presented no noticeable detrimental effects during battle, Naruto still had to suffer for just having it lock away. the fact that he overcame that suffering doesn't take away anything. And there were also risk beyond that we've already discussed. Even if the fox is to be considered a completely free power up, Naruto has skills and abilities beyond that. He also isn't a total pawn like Nagato was.
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KiSwordsman
Oh, but credit should be given because it requires his chakra.… Sure okay. I could understand if each technique took a heavy toll. However, it took him in a while and a bunch of jutsu, broken jutsu, to get where he ended up.
Even that is not solely his credit, since its his lineage that made possible using the eyes:lmao...sad day for a Nagato fan:p
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Doubt it, with how many people chose to vote for the favorites instead of who would win. I mean, how can Itachi beat Tobi when Tobi ahs Sharingan and can be intangible? Itachi doesn't have Kamui, the chakra, or an attack that allows him to get past the intangibility. The only reason I accepted it is because it's much better than 95% of the participants saying "Minato beats Tobi like he did before lololol".
Itachi (if healthy) wins 10 of 10 fights against a Tobi, who
- can't run away
- can't throw the whole Akatsuki at Itachi
- uses a Sharingan in his left eye socket
- can't use his stock of minimum 104 Sharingans for Izanagi
This guy saw Amaterasu coming and was still unable to go intangible. I mean, he noticed Sasukes 3 tomoe Sharingan turning MS, thought how impossible this is and couldn't do shit against it.
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninjabot
All jokes aside, debate skills<<fandom. People will vote for who they want to win, not who should win.
I know what your getting at and what you mean, but understand that, fights arent always as predictable as we make them out to be.
Still, a tourney will be terrible. Hashirama will win regardless though, so no point.
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninjabot
NO!
NOOOOOO!
Never again. I'll never be apart of another Naruto tournament. Not on MH.
:lmao...we'll see about that:p
The first requirement for a Naruto tournament is to see where the manga will head...I would give some more time for people to show their abilities to the fullest, and then organize one...
Then there's something called variety...the format of another Naruto tournament won't be the same as the last tournament...I say keeping things new and interesting is the way to go...this also means somehow introducing more weight to the debate as well...
---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jaymizzo
Still, a tourney will be terrible. Hashirama will win regardless though, so no point.
You don't know that, as you said there many unpredictable things:p...but at least I would probably agree now that he can beat Oro:p
Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rikudou King
I would be fine with another tournament, as long as Minato and Jiraiya are paired up in the first round. Plus Madara would be involved, and he'll basically sail right through it.
add Itachi and/or fist hokage in the group...
