basically the way quincys killed hollows destroyed the soul disrupting the cycle do to a deficiency of souls
when a shinigami would kill a hollow or give a soul burial it basically recycles the soul
its really not that complicated
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basically the way quincys killed hollows destroyed the soul disrupting the cycle do to a deficiency of souls
when a shinigami would kill a hollow or give a soul burial it basically recycles the soul
its really not that complicated
Recycle the soul particles, which are also used by spirits just like living beings use normal matter and quincies as weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki
Thats your definition of recycling? :ginwut Since when is purifying a soul and sending them to SS or Hell using a zanpaktou count as degeneration into reishi? (spirit particles)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Newbie.
I think you need to read the old chapters again man. Performing a konso (soul burial) transports the Pluses (souls) or Hollow into SS. (cleansing the spirit at the same time if it was a hollow)
The souls do not become particles when they get to SS right away. Maybe if they were absorbed or forcefully turned into particles, then thats a different story.
SS, Hell and HM all have spiritual souls vs the living world souls. So it evens out the ratio.
With the recent events of hollows being wiped out from existence, the deaths of 28,000 souls followed to keep the balance. Meaning about or over 28,000 hollows have died already in the Reich's attempt to build an army and assault SS.
Anyways word of god says thats how the soul balance works then thats how it works. Unless he retcons it later on.
I was just thinking about the 28000 people mayuri killed. If souls ordinarily move between the living and spirit world, then wouldn't those 28000 souls simply be in the living world still disrupting the balance? Should we assume mayuri didn't just kill those guys but altogether removed them from existence?
There's a balance between spiritual world and human world but Mayuri killed spiritual beings to balance the deaths of other spiritual beings, hollows. Going by what Rukia said about the balance between the worlds, what Mayuri did must have worsened the situation. I think there's a different kind of balance in question here, the balance between HM and SS.
Well, that depends on where exactly were those hollows. It also depends on where HM stands on this, specially if the hollows that were killed were indeed there. Otherwise it would imply that souls from SS have to be balanced between SS and and HM-human world. If what matters is the proportion of souls (whether living or dead) then killing all those people would indeed solve the problem though. Still, it leaves the question of whether those souls were annihilated so as to maintain the balance.
Considering that HM is the main land of hollows and VR invaded HM some time ago, I think most of these hollows were most likely killed in HM. Rukia didn't mention HM when she was explaining the balance of souls, perhaps HM doesn't have any role in this balance but I would find it a tad weird because HM is a separate dimension full of spiritual beings just like SS and human world.
If HM is on the human side of the balance, things get even more complicated because Rukia implied that this is a balance between the worlds of living and the dead. Also for hollows it would make eating humans no different from eating other hollows and saving humans would only be an ethical issue for shinigami.
I'm not sure I understood what you meant by "proportion of souls" but if hollows that were killed in human world disrupted the balance, then Mayuri's goal must have been to decrease the amount of souls in SS and increase the amount of souls in human world, in that sense I think annihilating the souls in SS would be counterproductive because these souls would be needed in human world to further compensate for lack of hollows.
Rukia also states that those souls are born in the world of the living; they're given life. Tie this with Kenpachi's implication and/or specially tie this with what the Official Character Book Souls states, and I think it's clear that what's being talked about is reincarnation ...and a cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Newbie.
Kenpachi, in that scan, says: "Even if we die, we'll just change a little... and then we'll be able to fight again!"Quote:
Originally Posted by The Newbie.
And you arguing that it's an "old scanalation which may be mistranslated" ...does not invalidate it.
Show me that the page is mistranslated (heck you haven't even presented an alternative translation), otherwise that page that I presented still stands as evidence on my side.
Eh, what? Where in the world did you get that, mister?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Newbie.
The Official Character Book SOULs, The Official Character Book 2 MASKED, and the Official Character Book 3 UNMASKED ....are Kubo's work, not that of a 'random group of people interpreting the manga.'
Not only is Kubo listed as the freaking author, but also specific info regarding characters (for example, info on Espadas, stuff like Omaeda's and Byakuya's father ...as well as the previous Kenpachi among others being revealed by Kubo), places, names of techniques, short stories and back-stories (for example the ones drawn and given to us of Ulquiorra as a hollow, or Harribel being alive in Hueco Mundo (after being healed by Orihime)--which was later noted and shown in the manga, namely in the newest/current arc) etc... this stuff is clearly given to us by Kubo.
I've seen that page before; there's also one with Kaien saying something similar to Rukia. But neither of them say that souls cease to exist or are gone forever after the spirit body becomes reishi for soul society, or that the spirit body becoming reishi for soul society is the only thing that happens (as in, reincarnation can't/doesn't happen).Quote:
Originally Posted by The Newbie.
While on the other hand we have Rukia talking about the balance of the worlds and specially noting that Soul Society souls are sent to and born in the world of the living and sent back (by shinigami) to Soul Society when they die, Kenpachi alluding to reincarnation (if he and Koma were to die), and then even the Official Character Book Souls specifically states that souls are reborn into the human world once they've spent a certain amount of time in Soul Society.
Based on what the manga/Kubo has shown, I always figured that when a shinigami or soul in Soul Society dies and their spirit body becomes reishi for Soul Society... the reishi will reconstitute itself after some time has passed on earth, OR that the essence of the soul can still be passed on (as in, to reincarnation or be reborn in the world of the living), even if the reishi stays behind.
Either way though, from what we have, both the manga and the Databook point to reincarnation and a cycle being present in Bleach (as I've already shown in a prior post of mine). There has not been an outright or direct contradiction to the concept of reincarnation and/or the cycle of souls in Bleach or the statements made about it.
Well the amount of souls in the worlds needs to be evened out--and this is constantly being done--according to what Rukia says.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyagi
And so using numbers, annihilating those 28000 Rukungai souls would be a balance if it was to counter 28000 souls annihilated by the quincies.
But there would also be a balance if the quincies annihilated 56000 souls and Soul Society killed 28000 Rukongai souls in a way that allows them to reincarnate. This would be a balance achieved via decreasing the amount of souls in SS and increasing the amount of souls in human world.
He was killed by Ichigo so that means he was sent to SS or Hell. We haven't seen more about hell yet either, I wonder if the vandereich is going there to recruit baddies too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asclepius
The whole balance between worlds thing stopped making sense when Kubo brought a third world into it. Doesn't the existence of Hueco Mundo already disrupt the balance? As I understand it, all hollows are throwing off the balance by not being in Soul Society, that's why shinigami kill hollows. So why did Soul Society allow such a massive hollows population to accumulate?
I think the reason the Vandenreich are ignoring the effect their destruction of so many hollows is having on the balance is because they fully intend on going to Soul Society and killing a bunch of shinigami to even it out. :p
I was confused by this as well, Mayuri himself said that only quincy can remove a soul from existence, so killing those people should have just migrated all those souls to the real world. I think the thing that is confusing people is that they are assuming the amount of souls Mayuri migrated is equal to the amount of souls removed from existence by the Vandenreich. The only way it makes sense to me is if Mayuri migrated half as many souls as the Vandenreich removed. Think about it like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by kkck
If there are 1000000 souls in both worlds, and the Vandenreich removes 56000 from the human world, then Mayuri has to give the human world 28000 of Soul Society's souls in order for both worlds to have the same amount of souls.
I was thinking something alone the lines of that too, at least the math makes sense lol. It wouldn't be weird if mayuri could altogether destroy souls, we have entire chapters dedicated to him telling us how he thoroughly and brutally studied quincy a while back.
I'm a bit confused about the reincarnation part. Shinigami can't regulate how many babies will be born, is there any difference between being annihilated and being reincarnated in that regard? The babies will have one soul anyway, be it from someone who died in SS or a new one. How does the cycle work?
It could be that since Mayuri had them murdered, they turned into hollows, but I'm not sure that makes sense either.
Well, we do know people can be and are born in SS. Perhaps new souls end up somehow balancing each other out naturally thus the only thing that affects the cycle are souls disappearing from it? Even if shinigami don't actually personally regulate how many people are born, they can still know how many babies are born each day and have statistics based on that to do their own bit of tinkering as they have shown they can do. Or maybe the cycle has enough souls so that no matter how many people are born there will still be enough souls moving back and forth. Of course, that would only make what the quincy do all the more brutal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyagi
About the reasons for the quincy to want to destroy the balance, what if their objective is actually to remove people from it as a whole? Basically they made their weapons to specifically stop hollows from ever being reborn and they simply oppose people moving between the worlds repeatedly? It would explain the nonesense at least.
I think we all need more information on the Spirit King. He probably regulates how many souls go to get reincarnated. If you are "killed" as a soul, you most likely turn into Reishi and disappear until you are reincarnated or are just absorbed as energy.