Which one is worse?

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Originally Posted by shafagh

well , Naruto's free power ups completely ruined power balance in manga and that why Madara and that scroll come to story ....

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He was bound to get free powerups anyway. What ruined it was giving both him and Sasuke too much power. Itachi should have been the only one with Mangekyo, or Susano'o, Amaterasu, and Tsukuyomi.

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Originally Posted by Roman

I'm down for all of that except Kyuubi and Naruto. What's the fucking problem with them becoming friends? I mean, ever since Kyuubi first spoke to Naruto, them becoming friends eventually had to cross your judgmental minds. It was a given that he'd eventually turn him to good, like he did with most of the characters. I mean, that's one of the main purposes our hero has in this manga. It was expected and it's nothing to whine about, specially considering how unbelievably badass Naruto has become.

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Too fast with no development. It's like Nagato being good again in like, less than a chapter or two after talking to Naruto just because he shows him a book. Or Orochimaru turning good in a chapter for no reason but because two hours of talking with Naruto and Kakashi about relationship was enough.

I don't think anyone's whining about Kyuubi becoming good, but how he turned good and how quickly he became Naruto's butt buddy. The relationship they had in Part I was better than the relationship now - though Kyuubi actually shows respect, not love.... Kyuubi slowly turning 180 is better than turning 180 in a war where Naruto needs more free powerups in nick of time.

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Originally Posted by tousendrinksbleach

OH DAMN ... OP you forgot the crucial parts :

Raikage does not use full speed + kill intent against sasuke that he tought to be his brother's murderer
instead he goes full against naruto that is trying to save the world :)
he is unable to break baby susanoo , yet he can break madara's susanoo ... actually baby susanoo could probably be broken by konohamaru these days

sasuke , plothole protection since 1999

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Naruto has more plothole protection than Sasuke.

Raikage did use full speed and killing intent against Sasuke. He just didn't prepare like he did against Naruto. Unlike Sasuke, Naruto had warning that Raikage will come with full power and intent to kill.

Raikage did break baby Susano'o... he chopped through the Amaterasu ribs and got Sasuke right in the face.


Feels like you're another typical whiner against Sasuke....

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Originally Posted by tousendrinksbleach

Raikage does not use full speed + kill intent against sasuke that he tought to be his brother's murderer

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Yes he did. He did it when he dodged Amaterasu, evidenced by him powering up and gaining more speed than before.

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instead he goes full against naruto that is trying to save the world

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Atleast he was courteous enough to warn him beforehand. Sasuke wasn't so lucky.

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he is unable to break baby susanoo , yet he can break madara's susanoo ... actually baby susanoo could probably be broken by konohamaru these days

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He broke Madara's, but only because Oonoki lightened up Raikage enough that he could move faster than his fastest speed... and then made him heavy again right at the point of impact. He was boosted.

Nah i wasnt talking about dodging amaterasu ... I'm saying he started the fight without being serious unlike his fight against naruto . If he went full speed KO punch sasuke the moment sasuke entered the room then sasuke would have died

Probably the same if Raikage went all out at Naruto at the beginning of the fight. Fact is, you can't attack Sasuke without attacking Naruto. Neither gets a free pass just because you hate one.

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Originally Posted by tousendrinksbleach

Nah i wasnt talking about dodging amaterasu ... I'm saying he started the fight without being serious unlike his fight against naruto . If he went full speed KO punch sasuke the moment sasuke entered the room then sasuke would have died

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So your saying Raikage started the fight at full speed/serious against Naruto? Lies, all lies I tell you.

the major problem i would say is about Obito. there should be a limit to coincident. the biggest incident of this decade long manga has been a coincidence? it is utterly pathetic that Obito would fall through to exact location where Madara was.

then comes the other two points. about Kyuubi, it was bound to happen at some point. so, Naruto befriending Kyuubi isn't much of a problem. however, how it was shown to happen is the real problem here.

and the "The random deus ex machina Suigetsu found"; another meaningless plot. Jugo going berserk for no reason punches only one wall to destroy that. and voila, the most secret room of all was just at the very beginning of the hideout, just beside the first wall. cool.

then suddenly Suigetsu, who knew nothing about the war, how it was going on randomly realized that the special data that Orochimaru had, who knows how much years ago than the war, can win the war. great.

so basically, when he gets something useful, he automatically thinks that as something to win the war, even though he knew nothing about the course of war. and guess what, he instantly think that as a gift for Sasuke. talk about randomness.

Tobi: "Hey, you awake? Itachi is, like, good guy."
Sasuke: "Lol, yeah right"
Tobi: "Seriously, he was totally manipulated and stuff, he gave his life to save Konoha, the village he loved. It is now his one true standing legacy."
Sasuke: "Prove it"
Tobi: "Behold! 10 chapters of flashbacks!"
Sasuke: "I instantly believe you"
Tobi: "Cool, what you gonna do now?"
Sasuke: "Destroy Konoha"
Me: "Wut?"

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Originally Posted by Roman

Well it wasn't really that sudden. The proof of that is the flashback about Naruto and Sasuke of which Kurama himself talked about. It means that he actually observed Naruto his whole life and deep down he probably wished and hoped for someone who won't use him. Also, speeding things up after Naruto tamed him isn't really that big of a deal. It's like master/puppet thing, only with friends relationship. Kurama simply found out someone worthy enough to make himself converted. Incidentally, what do you say about Nagato's turn around? That was a matter of fucking moments whereas he previously destroyed whole villages basing on his principles and in just a few moments and words, all that went away and he turned good. So yeah, it's not that big of a deal. It was a fair amount of time for Kurama to turn good.

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Its not so much that kyuubi turned "good".. Rather that he respects Naruto's causes and wishes more so than his oppenents (madara and tobi)..whom kyuubi hates bc they used him whereas Naruto tried showing respect and didn't think of the kyuubi as a tool anymore like he did when he was younger but rather realized kyuubi is a person with feelings too, just like Sasuke...how could kyuubi not respect Naruto's change of thought about him?

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Originally Posted by hawaplop

Its not so much that kyuubi turned "good".. Rather that he respects Naruto's causes and wishes more so than his oppenents (madara and tobi)..whom kyuubi hates bc they used him whereas Naruto tried showing respect and didn't think of the kyuubi as a tool anymore like he did when he was younger but rather realized kyuubi is a person with feelings too, just like Sasuke...how could kyuubi not respect Naruto's change of thought about him?

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That's what I'm saying. Even as a mass of hatred, Kurama only needed that kind of attitude towards him to push him to the other side. It's actually a paradox. Simply because he was a BIG mass of hatred, he was a BIG mass of sadness and vulnerability, too. Naruto got him his medicine and he reacted the way he would if anyone showed Naruto's sentiments. Nothing was too fast. Everything was building inside Kurama for 500 chapters. Kishi just didn't pay attention to his detailed change of heart.

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Originally Posted by Roman

That's what I'm saying. Even as a mass of hatred, Kurama only needed that kind of attitude towards him to push him to the other side. It's actually a paradox. Simply because he was a BIG mass of hatred, he was a BIG mass of sadness and vulnerability, too. Naruto got him his medicine and he reacted the way he would if anyone showed Naruto's sentiments. Nothing was too fast. Everything was building inside Kurama for 500 chapters. Kishi just didn't pay attention to his detailed change of heart.

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read it ,got it, don't get why i you don't hate it.

the change of the essence of this character (9-tails/hatred) is way to extrem for me (if he would still be burning with hate for Madara ..... okay, atleast something remaining of what he truely is.... but this is just cheap replacing one character with another: QB against Kuruma).
Didn't see this change of heart build up in the last 500 chapters... saw it in the last 20....
Naruto and QB working together was to be anticipated... but not like this.

anyways opinios differ (eventhough that is annoying at times)

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Originally Posted by Criss-Kun

Tobi: "Hey, you awake? Itachi is, like, good guy."
Sasuke: "Lol, yeah right"
Tobi: "Seriously, he was totally manipulated and stuff, he gave his life to save Konoha, the village he loved. It is now his one true standing legacy."
Sasuke: "Prove it"
Tobi: "Behold! 10 chapters of flashbacks!"
Sasuke: "I instantly believe you"
Tobi: "Cool, what you gonna do now?"
Sasuke: "Destroy Konoha"
Me: "Wut?"

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The funny thing?
That guy was gonna show Sasuke his face, claiming to be Madara, despite being Obito :lmao
Sasuke's reaction would be:
"Who the fuck are you?
I saw the statue of the guy, trust me he looks nothing like you"

---------- Post added at 04:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by M3J

Naruto has more plothole protection than Sasuke.

Raikage did use full speed and killing intent against Sasuke. He just didn't prepare like he did against Naruto. Unlike Sasuke, Naruto had warning that Raikage will come with full power and intent to kill.

Raikage did break baby Susano'o... he chopped through the Amaterasu ribs and got Sasuke right in the face.


Feels like you're another typical whiner against Sasuke....

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Its called plotshield, not plothole protection :3c
Having plothole protection would be, like, negating the very existence of Obito :lmao

Sasuke believing in or buying Tobi/Obtio's story makes sense. Sasuke simply put the pieces together as Tobi went on with his story. The clan was segregated, they were stationed outside the village, they had no political influence in Konoha only Senju clan and their followers had, hence the second class treatment. Itachi did slaughter all the clan and him flicking his forehead before death along with the tears in his eyes, proved to Sasuke that Tobi's story was right. There is nothing ludicrous about his belief or even his reaction.

Naruto's ultimate friendship with Kyuubi doesn't make any sense at all. Why would Kyuubi even want to be friends with his prison container, and for a pointless ninja war of all the things? I just don't get it. But Naruto's plot points are usually pointless anyway. It seems to be the curse of shonen heroes.

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Originally Posted by shahdan

Sasuke believing in or buying Tobi/Obtio's story makes sense. Sasuke simply put the pieces together as Tobi went on with his story. The clan was segregated, they were stationed outside the village, they had no political influence in Konoha only Senju clan and their followers had, hence the second class treatment. Itachi did slaughter all the clan and him flicking his forehead before death along with the tears in his eyes, proved to Sasuke that Tobi's story was right. There is nothing ludicrous about his belief or even his reaction.

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Also in Sasuke's defence he didn't really trust Tobi, and asked Danzou first and Itachi later if the story was true.

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Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood

Also in Sasuke's defence he didn't really trust Tobi, and asked Danzou first and Itachi later if the story was true.

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Sorry, forgot to add those points. Sasuke confirmed everything from Danzo as well, and finally Itachi. They confirmed Tobi's story, so nothing is left about speculation here. Uchiha were poorly segregated, treated like second class citizens on a whim, and then ultimately slaughtered.