Broken bankais

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Originally Posted by Duniak

Nice catch, man. xD Mayuri is one hell of a son of a bitch. It would suit him. Maybe RG will prove him wrong.

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My point was that it did not suit him actually. Mayuri is an SOB notorious for his average of precisely zero shits given at any particular point in his entire existence. He does not fight fair or square, he fights dirty and aims for as much unnecessary cruelty as possible. Its not like he even has the decency of being intentionally cruel, he just acts the way it is most natural to him. Not being a cruel SOB is something foreign to him, from his perspective the way he acts is by all intents and purposes normal and it is everyone else who is too stupid to know and understand that. We are talking about a guy so inhuman he seemingly carried for a decade or so pictures of the remains of ishida souken and showed them to ishida during the battle (he didn't know that was ishida's grandfather but it still amounts to a horrible coincidence) and he left grantz imprisoned within his mind for entire ages while he slowly pierced his heart, a fate far worse than death. Mayuri's revenge for being insulted by ichigo, something for which he should actually try to be cruel, ending up just being a merely lie which can be disproved by the guy in the next room and most of the shinigami ichigo knows personally would be completely unlike mayuri at this point.

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Originally Posted by kkck

It seems kinda unlikely that is the case... wouldn't such a development set up characters for us to see how they deal with potentially maimed and reduced characters? I'd argue that for kubo to make room for new characters he has to leave old characters alone rather than create specific situations where we can see them develop beyond their innate limitations.

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Not sure what you're saying, if you're saying that it would be lame to just ditch characters with ongoing problems, then yes I agree

Ichigos broken bankai is being taken to the royal palace-
It is being held in a similar bubble container that the other injured shinigami are being transported in-
I think this is possibly forshadowing for them helping ichigo to repair his bankai-

also I think that ichigo may need to provide a jumpstart of reiatsu for all the shinigami that had their bankais stolen.
If the quincy stealing the bankai from the shinigami is similar to the fullbring being stolen from ichigo and the resulting power loss- then it should stand to reason that ichigo once he repairs his bankai can transfer the captians powers back to them mixed with a little of his own in the process. I expect good things.

also I like that ichigo is on the "list" these next few chapters should prove very interesting!

Yeah... Renji's bankai did look like it was completely smashed into pieces by Byakuya, haha.

But I guess Kubo can ret-con anything he wants... or maybe say something like, "Oh, those shattered parts that were drawn? They were actually just a few of the links. Renji has way more than just that." Etc etc etc...

Whatever, I can roll with it. :derp

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Originally Posted by kkck

My point was that it did not suit him actually. Mayuri is an SOB notorious for his average of precisely zero shits given at any particular point in his entire existence. He does not fight fair or square, he fights dirty and aims for as much unnecessary cruelty as possible. Its not like he even has the decency of being intentionally cruel, he just acts the way it is most natural to him. Not being a cruel SOB is something foreign to him, from his perspective the way he acts is by all intents and purposes normal and it is everyone else who is too stupid to know and understand that. We are talking about a guy so inhuman he seemingly carried for a decade or so pictures of the remains of ishida souken and showed them to ishida during the battle (he didn't know that was ishida's grandfather but it still amounts to a horrible coincidence) and he left grantz imprisoned within his mind for entire ages while he slowly pierced his heart, a fate far worse than death. Mayuri's revenge for being insulted by ichigo, something for which he should actually try to be cruel, ending up just being a merely lie which can be disproved by the guy in the next room and most of the shinigami ichigo knows personally would be completely unlike mayuri at this point.

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Mayuri considers his intelligence as his strongest thing. He hates being under someone. Mentioning Urahara really pissed him. He now officially hates Ichigo. He would lie to shock Ichigo. And who can disprove him? He is like the most intelligent man out there, they wouldn't be sure, that he lies. ;x

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Originally Posted by Duniak

Mayuri considers his intelligence as his strongest thing. He hates being under someone. Mentioning Urahara really pissed him. He now officially hates Ichigo. He would lie to shock Ichigo. And who can disprove him? He is like the most intelligent man out there, they wouldn't be sure, that he lies. ;x

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I'm hoping there's one person that can disprove him if he's wrong...Urahara.

I think i know why kubo pulled out this ass pull, and yes it is and ass pull. Why? renji vs byakuya. nuff said :hip

The reason why kubo shit on us with this random garbage is so ichigo can train his quincy powers. Let me explain.

the difference between shikai and bankai is that shikai as we know is a partial release which comes from within and bankai is a full release that is manifested into the real world and as we know to obtain it you must defeat your spirit in the real world. So here`s my theory :

This shit, yes shit, was solely for ichigo. Quincy absorb their power from the outside while shinigami use their inner power, so i believe that icho being a hybrid he`ll be able to do both simultaneously. If a broken bankai cant be fixed because it was broken in the real world as opposed to their inner one quincy powers would be perfect for repairing it. If ichigo uses his quincy powers to mend his bankai on the outside while use his shinigami powers to fix his inner world than by all means he should be able to fix his spirit and bankai. Quincy absorb power from outside and since his spirit is fully manifested outside instead of his inner world quincy powers would be the best way to fix it as they draw from the world itself. if the bankai is broken it shouldnt be able to be fixed since its outside their source of power, but since quincys use the power of nature and absorb reishi from the outside world where the bankai is bey all means ichigo should be able to fix it once he fully develops those powers. Do you guys see where im going?

Shikai = inside , thus can be fixed with inner power
Bankai = outside, since it cant be repaired by your own power since its outside your realm who better to repair it other than the people who use the power of the outside world than the inner one?

Oh and the same theory applies for the medallions. Quincy cant steal shikai but bankai. Why? as i said earlier, shikai is partial release and bankai is full release, so if the spirit is fully outside in bankai and not partially like shikai and the quincy use the power of the outside, than they should be able to steall it if they are strong enough of have the proper equipment, hence the medallions.

I feel bad though if bankais cant be fixed this is a major problem for everyone as they all have serious battles ahead of them... Which means more BLOODSHED! this invasion was the shit i cant wait for whats next XD lol

What do you guys think? Seems legit, no?

---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

also i think juha was the one who taught humans to use reishi and thus was the first quincy, which explains his status and age, probably after getting thrown out of ss he went and hid with the quincies

I have been thinking recently, does byakuya still have hakuteiken? Byakuya's bankai could be very particular in this regard. On one hand his shikai and bankai work by splitting one (or many) larger blades into an untold number of smaller ones. From then on byakuya starts with senkei which is meant to concentrate blades into powerful individual swords. The more blades into one sword the more powerful it gets. Senkei has many hundreds of swords and hakuteiken has 1 blade with the power of millions of blades. Now, byakuya also suggests the true purpose of his bankai is to actually get those blades and concentrate them, basically it is meant to be used as senkei or hakuteiken. The issue, would a broken senkei blade or the factually broken hakuteiken return to what they used to be in battle? I guess byakuya could potentially still use hakuteiken by forcing the millions of blades back together however would hakuteiken have the same power as before? Or would byakuya retain the power he had simply because breaking hakuteiken means scattering the millions of petals again?

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Originally Posted by kkck

I have been thinking recently, does byakuya still have hakuteiken? Byakuya's bankai could be very particular in this regard. On one hand his shikai and bankai work by splitting one (or many) larger blades into an untold number of smaller ones. From then on byakuya starts with senkei which is meant to concentrate blades into powerful individual swords. The more blades into one sword the more powerful it gets. Senkei has many hundreds of swords and hakuteiken has 1 blade with the power of millions of blades. Now, byakuya also suggests the true purpose of his bankai is to actually get those blades and concentrate them, basically it is meant to be used as senkei or hakuteiken. The issue, would a broken senkei blade or the factually broken hakuteiken return to what they used to be in battle? I guess byakuya could potentially still use hakuteiken by forcing the millions of blades back together however would hakuteiken have the same power as before? Or would byakuya retain the power he had simply because breaking hakuteiken means scattering the millions of petals again?

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Yeah, I would think he still has Hakuteiken. I think you'd be right in saying that having that what Ichigo did involved separating the petals, rather than breaking them. But that's just my guess, it could easily be a case of one or the other. He hasn't used Senkei or Hakuteiken since the battle with Ichigo, but he has made a point of saying he reserves them only for worthy opponents (and IIRC he even said Ichigo was the very first one to see Hakuteiken). He didn't really need either technique against either Zommari or Tsukishima, but we don't really know for a fact if he could have used Hakuteiken if he wanted to. I suspect he could have though. In a way, Senbonzakura Kageyoshi is similar to Hihou Zabimaru, in that it's parts can be forced apart without actually damaging the Bankai, but in Byakuya's case those parts are much smaller and much more numerous. To cause the 'broken Bankai' effect in Senbonzakura, I think you'd have to actually shatter the individual petals, but since there are so many of them, shattering a limited number of them would have a minimal impact.

But what I'm confused about is why Ichigo needs a special technique to 'reincarnate' his Bankai. When Yammy shattered Tsubaki, Orihime was able to restore it perfectly with Hachi's help, and he even said she should have been able to do it by herself. So I'm not sure how Ichigo's blade being broken is beyond Orihime's capacity to undo. After all, Soul Society's general perception that Bankais are unfixable precludes the discovery of Orihime's abilities. Obviously she has her limits, being unable to revive Ichigo the second around time being an example. Seems like they should at least try it anyway...

What I'm wondering is exactly how a remodelled Bankai differs from the original. Actually, what does Mayuri even mean when he says "remodelled"? When he used his Bankai against Szayel Aporro, there was no visible difference to the time he used it against Ishida. So what is actually different. Is it the Bankai itself, the Zanpakuto spirit, or the Zanpakuto as a whole, Shikai and all?

Unless you shatter the millions of little blades that Senbonzakura have, then his Bankai cannot be called a " broken " Bankai
But the thing, this is an asspull no matter what : Renji's Bankai got completely shattered to tiny pieces, COMPLETELY, the manga/anime made it obviously clear, and it still looked fine against Yylfordt. Mayuri's Bankai got pierced in half, IN HALF, and still looked fine to me when Mayuri used it against Szayel

It's just ridiculous what Kubo did there, in all honesty...

I really feel like there is a little bit that is lost in translation with what Mayuri said. Visually zanpakuto always look like new when they are released. Zangetsu didn't keep the hole that Kenpachi made when he pierced it. Hōzukimaru was shattered and brought back in one piece the next time it was used. I think the segments of Renji's bankai that were considered "destroyed" were the ones that had absolutely no pieces left. We saw the shards of Renji's bankai that could be seen around him reform into Renji's katana and those are the parts that got fixed and remained part of the bankai. Mayuri's explanation was meant to explain the reiatsu gaps that appeared in Hihio Zabimaru starting with the fight with Yylfordt.

Considering how Mayuri said he modified his zanpakuto it's impossible to tell exactly how it's different from before. It might not even be visible from the outside. His zanpakuto has always worked in strange ways so his bankai is its own exception. I think reading Bleach is a lot easier to do if you don't make assumptions about limits or restrict your interpretations to absolutes.

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Originally Posted by g0dzax

Oh,and another thing : Mayuri said he "modified" his Zanpakutou,and that a broken Bankai can never be returned to it's former state.Which can really mean only two things:

-it gets more powerful than it's former state;
-it gets weaker than it's former state;

I'd say it's pretty clear,Mayuri didn't tell us the whole story,and there must be some hidden facts here.

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Well... actually that can only mean 3 things, hahaha.

A broken Bankai can never be returned to its former state, so the new state of the Bankai, after being modified or repaired, could be:

1) lower in strength
2) equal in strength
3) greater in strength

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Originally Posted by Cyrs

1) lower in strength
2) equal in strength
3) greater in strength

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4) DIFFERENT.

You'll have hard time comparing strengths of bankais. What is stronger? Zanka No Tachi or Ichigo's FGT? They're different, nothing to compare.

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Originally Posted by Duniak

4) DIFFERENT.

You'll have hard time comparing strengths of bankais. What is stronger? Zanka No Tachi or Ichigo's FGT? They're different, nothing to compare.

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Depends on the point of view. If we want a single-value comparison, then you're right - it doesn't have to exist. But you can always split up "strength" into categories, and choose one of 1)-3) for each, which IMO is a better way to compare.

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Originally Posted by 0Xellos

Depends on the point of view. If we want a single-value comparison, then you're right - it doesn't have to exist. But you can always split up "strength" into categories, and choose one of 1)-3) for each, which IMO is a better way to compare.

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Strength of bankai depends on USER ONLY. It is HIS soul and HIS reiatsu. It can be different and be more suitable for combat, but it won't be significantly stronger.