Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Genjutsu users don't give their chakra to others. And I don't think medics give chakra to others either. So yeah, there's still only one case of human being able to give another human chakra for usage
.
Tsunade gave her chakra to Onoki so that he could continue to use Jinton, after not being able to because he was low on chakra. So yeah... While I realize that the genjutsu claim is stretching a bit, that still using your chakra to manipulate your opponent senses. which in essence, is passing it to your opponent.
Quote:
It was only mentioned in the war when said power was needed.
Didn't you just say you had an issue with it because it was said very recently and now you're trying to generalize it to the entire war? Really? The Hirashin thing was brought up the very chapter Mei was needed to be with the other kage. Which was preformed by characters people barely gave a damn about and one dude we had only seen, at maximum, twice in the entire story that never did anything of significance. That is an asspull. My point remains, it didn't come out of nowhere.
Quote:
Kinda forgot, but I think I was talking about human-to-human chakra exchange as well.
Tsunade. Also, I've already brought up the whole Biju point. It seems now we are just going in circles.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
But can you at least explain the whole reason behind Kyuubi's chakra needing to be changed before handed out like candy on Halloween? That makes no sense.
maybe there is a special restriction in the sharing of chakra, its more easier to give your own than to give others, that would make sense.
it would explain why he had to change it so that it was his own, and why the kyubi and everyone was praising him on being able to change it.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
My only real problem with the Kurama chakra booster shots is... the sheer scale of the powerup.
When Sasuke was a Genin, he charged a Chidori with so much chakra it burned the flesh off his arm. His own chakra.
Gates users like Lee and Gai rip their muscles they're being charged with so much chakra. Their own chakra boosts them so much that it RIPS THEIR MUSCLES.
Curse Seal users feel intense pain later on as the run short on chakra.
Usage of Bijuu chakra is supposed to shorten one's life span.
There are tons of reasons why Naruto handing chakra out should be detrimental, but not so many reasons why it should be considered impossible. So, why can we call it an asspull, after what he did with Kakashi? Once again, the scale, and the fact that they're not being annihilated by such a large reserve of chakra.
But whatever.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Most of the transfers, if not all, weren't like how Naruto did it. I already know most of that, yet I still said what I did. Can Naruto use Minato's chakra? Is the sand a living thing? Are the bodies Nagato used alive, or without chakra rod? Didn't Raikage theorize Ginkaku and Kinkaku were the descendants of Rikudou Sennin when he mentioned they ate Kyuubi's chakra and could handle it (unless he meant them being able to use RS's tools)?
In the case of Minato and Kushina it seems like their wills were still attached to the chakra, but effectively yes. It was still usable for restoring the Kyuubi's seal, and for helping Naruto to subdue the Kyuubi.
As far as Gaara's sand, it is still debatable. It acts like a living thing, presumable also responding to his will that is attached to the chakra.
The paths of Pein were corpses, and presumably having no chakra production capacity of their own would be corpses again with the rods removed.
Raikage can theorize all he wants.. Doesn't mean they were doesn't mean they weren't.. And the fact remains that in a village where the primary families are already related Rikudo, its likely almost everyone in Konoha has at least some degree of connection to Rikudo.
And bottom line you are still trying to ignore Karin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Kakashi or someone could have told him how. And Nagato didn't need to take every single bit of Konan's chakra, just enough without killing her. Naruto didn't die giving Chiyo chakra.
Presumably Kurama told him, which is what you are now complaining about.
Naruto didn't die transferring chakra, but Chiyo did. It took everything one person had and then some to revive Gaara, but you still think Konan could have done it without dying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Chakra rods were used, which is different from a high five chakra transfer that happened in like, two seconds at most. And Naruto was capable of such in Sage Mode, when it was established he could sense chakra. Kyuubi didn't send energy back, Nagato likely got it back.
Sure its different, I was discussing why the Bijuu transfer to Naruto made sense in the context of what we had seen.
Even if you ignore all the others I've listed there is still Karin and Samehada for contact transfer of chakra into other people.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninjabot
My only real problem with the Kurama chakra booster shots is... the sheer scale of the powerup.
When Sasuke was a Genin, he charged a Chidori with so much chakra it burned the flesh off his arm. His own chakra.
Gates users like Lee and Gai rip their muscles they're being charged with so much chakra. Their own chakra boosts them so much that it RIPS THEIR MUSCLES.
Curse Seal users feel intense pain later on as the run short on chakra.
Usage of Bijuu chakra is supposed to shorten one's life span.
There are tons of reasons why Naruto handing chakra out should be detrimental, but not so many reasons why it should be considered impossible. So, why can we call it an asspull, after what he did with Kakashi? Once again, the scale, and the fact that they're not being annihilated by such a large reserve of chakra. why should it now ?
But whatever.
there's a different between those people you mention and naruto, naruto has a large amount of chakra, so he is not binded by it like those people you mention, he has more chakra than everyone back then and even more now, chackra has not in the past been an issue for naruto.
sasuke was having problem making two chidori a day, and naruto was spamming rasengan and KB.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KiSwordsman
.
Tsunade gave her chakra to Onoki so that he could continue to use Jinton, after not being able to because he was low on chakra. So yeah... While I realize that the genjutsu claim is stretching a bit, that still using your chakra to manipulate your opponent senses. which in essence, is passing it to your opponent.
Saw other translations and they basically imply or say hte same, so I sit corrected. But we see Tsunade placing both her hands on Oonoki's back and keeping it there. Same when Naruto gave Chiyo his chakra. Naruto passed on a lot of chakra quite quickly to others, though.
Not really as the opponents can't use the chakra, and the chakra goes away or doesn't affect the opponent after he or she breaks out of it.
Quote:
Didn't you just say you had an issue with it because it was said very recently and now you're trying to generalize it to the entire war? Really? The Hirashin thing was brought up the very chapter Mei was needed to be with the other kage. Which was preformed by characters people barely gave a damn about and one dude we had only seen, at maximum, twice in the entire story that never did anything of significance. That is an asspull. My point remains, it didn't come out of nowhere.
I did point out the war thing posts ago though... and it's still recent. No mention about it until the war, when it was a convenient power needed. It still came out of nowhere.
When did I say the three-man Hiraishin wasn't an asspull? I know it was, I never said otherwise. The hawk was an asspull because it was never hinted at, only used for convenience.
Quote:
Tsunade. Also, I've already brought up the whole Biju point. It seems now we are just going in circles.
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xaither
maybe there is a special restriction in the sharing of chakra, its more easier to give your own than to give others, that would make sense.
it would explain why he had to change it so that it was his own, and why the kyubi and everyone was praising him on being able to change it.
Can't have been any restriction or difficulty as Kyuubi itself had no problem giving Kakashi chakra in an instant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thabor
In the case of Minato and Kushina it seems like their wills were still attached to the chakra, but effectively yes. It was still usable for restoring the Kyuubi's seal, and for helping Naruto to subdue the Kyuubi.
As far as Gaara's sand, it is still debatable. It acts like a living thing, presumable also responding to his will that is attached to the chakra.
The paths of Pein were corpses, and presumably having no chakra production capacity of their own would be corpses again with the rods removed.
But chakra was not used for anything but to help Naruto inside himself. The chakra was also associated with a seal, Four Trigrams (?) seal.
It's still a nonliving thing as it moves only when Gaara uses his chakra to do so. We saw Jiraiya do the same with Swamp of the Underworld and suiton users do the same with water.
Yes, and? The rods were used to receive and send chakra, which is different from what Naruto did in this chapter.
Quote:
And bottom line you are still trying to ignore Karin.
No, I acknowledged her, though I dunno how or when she shared chakra.
Quote:
Presumably Kurama told him, which is what you are now complaining about.
Naruto didn't die transferring chakra, but Chiyo did. It took everything one person had and then some to revive Gaara, but you still think Konan could have done it without dying?
No, I'm complaining about no warning beforehand. Just Kyuubi telling Naruto like, just 6-7 chapters ago and then Naruto mastering it and giving it out like candy.
What are we talking about? Before Nagato used Rinne Tensei or after he died? There's a difference there. Konan wouldn't have been able to bring Nagato back to life, and if she knew Chiyo's jutsu then she would have died. if Gaara was low on chakra like Nagato was, Chiyo wouldn't have died since she would have just needed to restore his chakra, not give up her own life to bring back Gaara's (which would have been impossible without Naruto or someone else as she didn't have enough chakra at the time).
Quote:
Sure its different, I was discussing why the Bijuu transfer to Naruto made sense in the context of what we had seen.
Even if you ignore all the others I've listed there is still Karin and Samehada for contact transfer of chakra into other people.
Still doesn't make sense. Kyuubi giving Naruto chakra makes sense because Kyuubi is sealed in Naruto. The other bijuu are not, so he shouldn't have been in their world anyway.
Dunno about Karin, but Samehada is different. It's not a human, and it's seemingly made for chakra absorption and a timeskip later, to lend chakra.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Saw other translations and they basically imply or say hte same, so I sit corrected. But we see Tsunade placing both her hands on Oonoki's back and keeping it there. Same when Naruto gave Chiyo his chakra. Naruto passed on a lot of chakra quite quickly to others, though.
Not really as the opponents can't use the chakra, and the chakra goes away or doesn't affect the opponent after he or she breaks out of it.
Now you're literally just nitpicking. That's still human to human chakra transfer, which is what you wanted an example of, correct? Like I said, the ability to pass it off harmlessly seem more like a demon thing then a human thing.
Quote:
I did point out the war thing posts ago though... and it's still recent. No mention about it until the war, when it was a convenient power needed. It still came out of nowhere.
When did I say the three-man Hiraishin wasn't an asspull? I know it was, I never said otherwise. The hawk was an asspull because it was never hinted at, only used for convenience.
That's not coming out of nowhere. If something is established at a certain point and then that same things used later, it's not an asspull. The reason I brought up the Hirashin fiasco was due to the fact that that's exactly what an asspull is. It was brought up the very chapter that it was needed, no evidence whatsoever that it could be done. The ability for a demon to give it's chakra was established long ago and the fox itself teaching Naruto was brought up seven chapters before this one. By saying this is an ass pull you'd also have to claim the same for Mabui's tranfer method. Which was first establishes as a way to transfer items, and then used to transfer Ē and Tsunade. Anything established during the war would be considered the same given the fact that it wasn't established beforehand. It seems like you're just grasping at straws.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
How can a demon pass its chakra off more harmlessly than a human? Its chakra even without evil will is still pretty strong, stronger than a human's. I'm not saying that makes it impossible, but I don't believe that a mass of strong chakra can be more harmless than human chakra. How am I nitpicking? I didn't say anything about Tsunade giving Oonoki chakra, but the rate of chakra-giving this chapter by Naruto.
The mention was out of nowhere, though, only to avoid looking like a complete asspull.
The ability for a demon to give its chakra to the host was established in Part I, but nothing was stated that it could give chakra to others. I don't think you understand the problem I have with this is, since I'm not stating it clearly, but whatever. Let's just go with me grasping at straws. This argument is going nowhere.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Literally cannot believe the BS debate about chakra dispersal is still raging on. After everything that's happened in this series, the fact Naruto while in God Mode can share chakra is baffling people?? Suspension of disbelief people. Let me just say 2 things that put Narutos chakra sharing into the realms of believable; 1. Izanagi 2. Izanami.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
How can a demon pass its chakra off more harmlessly than a human? Its chakra even without evil will is still pretty strong, stronger than a human's. I'm not saying that makes it impossible, but I don't believe that a mass of strong chakra can be more harmless than human chakra. How am I nitpicking? I didn't say anything about Tsunade giving Oonoki chakra, but the rate of chakra-giving this chapter by Naruto.
Let me clarify, without a condition. With humans, there always seems to be some condition to transferring there chakra for use or otherwise, demons have the ability to just give it away if they so desire. You're nitpicking because you went from there is no example other than Chiyo to the rate at which Naruto is giving it away. Despite the fact that he learned it from a Biju, who as we've seen, gave it own chakra at the same rate.
Quote:
The mention was out of nowhere, though, only to avoid looking like a complete asspull.
The ability for a demon to give its chakra to the host was established in Part I, but nothing was stated that it could give chakra to others. I don't think you understand the problem I have with this is, since I'm not stating it clearly, but whatever. Let's just go with me grasping at straws. This argument is going nowhere.
The mention of the fox being able to give it's chakra away? We have examples of that already. One, the situation with The other demons and Naruto. Two, when it has given it to Naruto in the past. Three, Bee. just because it's not out right stated, does not mean that it wasn't there before. You phrase it as if we cannot garner for ourselves that it is within the realm of possibility that a demon can give it's chakra away to whomever it wished from that. Literally nothing but not being told otherwise made us assume that it couldn't give it's chakra away to whomever it desired. And, why shouldn't it? After all, that its own chakra. If you're not stating it clearly, then please do so, so that I can understand.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
If it looks like an asspull, it'll be called an asspull. Itachi's my favorite, but you don't see me saying Izanami was completely justified, or even justified at all. I don't like Sasuke but you don't see me saying MS jutsu were asspulls. Minato annoys me because of his fans, but you don't see me saying he pulled rasengan and Hiraishin out of his ass.
The whole point of that debate is actually the fact that each and every technique a character shows or learns should be an asspull. If Minato's Hiraishin is an aspull, then Kakashi's Mangekyou Sharingan is also an aspull, if Naruto's sharing chakra is an asspull, Sasuke's EMS is also an aspull. Yeah, the whole KISHIMOTO as an artist is an asspull because his ideas are an asspull.
That was sarcasm of course, but you know, if some technique is called an asspull, it can also be applied to the next one on the next character. Which is ridiculous because there's no point in reading this manga if you don't like it.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Most of the transfers, if not all, weren't like how Naruto did it. I already know most of that, yet I still said what I did. Can Naruto use Minato's chakra? Is the sand a living thing? Are the bodies Nagato used alive, or without chakra rod? Didn't Raikage theorize Ginkaku and Kinkaku were the descendants of Rikudou Sennin when he mentioned they ate Kyuubi's chakra and could handle it (unless he meant them being able to use RS's tools)?
To add to it, Ginkaku and Kinkaku were considered to be monsters because they ate the Kyuubi's flesh. There is nothing to suggest an ordinary human being can survive that. And they used the treasured tools without showing any sort of slowing down. Whether they were the descendants of the Rikudou Sennin or not, they cannot be compared to a normal human by any means.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
I will write now only the first part of my comment for this chapter, because otherwise this post would be too long: :3c:3c:3c
The cover page is really awesome, I really like the clothes they wear, the armor of the Samurai, Sakura is in because She is a member of the team 7 although in reality considering the last chapters I think that Hinata would be more suited.
Sasuke is in Konoha and He is already leaving, I think that the citizens of Konoha have not seen them, because the light in the house are on, so I believe that there will not be any fight, I think infact that Sasuke has only talked with Koharu and Homura, so he know the truth.
Sasuke tells Orochimaru to guide them, so maybe they have not yet gone in the place "that Sasuke knew very well" that Orochmaru mentioned in their last appearance.
In fact I think otherwise that if they had to go only to battlefield, the first would be Sasuke himself, or at least if Sasuke would be afraid that of a sneaky attack by Orochimaru he would have send first Juugo or Suigetsu.
I have to admit that I liked this new Orochimaru, infact since his revival Orochimaru seem that changed, he is very similar to Madara now, we can clearly see it since he comments Sasuke reaction to the fact than the chakra than they feel is of Naruto.
Apparently the group has not taken Karin, but still I think that she will manage to escape and will reunite with them, perhaps only at the battlefield.
But more importantly they have not even taken Yamato, so now I think it is most unlikely that Sasuke implants in himself the cells of Hashirama' and after that awakens so Rinnengan.
As for the rest of the chapter I loved it, even though it was expected, infact I was sure that things would go in this way.
In fact, just as it seemed at the end of last chapter, Naruto ha recharged Hinata.
In the truth he has not only recharged her, he give her (and even to all the other ninja/Kunoichi that has taken the chakra form him) more chakra that she originally had.
Infact if we put the value 100 the chakra that Hinata usually has when she begins to fight, now she would be to 120.
It is no coincidence that Hinata now stop the attack of the Juubi with the "Palm of air" using only a hand, while Hiashi few chapters ago had to use both hands (and infact this is noticed from Hiashi and Madara).
Anyways I believe that Naruto/Kurama’s chara not only increase the power of the attack, but even the reflexes and stamina.
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marche
I will write now only the first part of my comment for this chapter, because otherwise this post would be too long: :3c:3c:3c
The cover page is really awesome, I really like the clothes they wear, the armor of the Samurai, Sakura is in because She is a member of the team 7 although in reality considering the last chapters I think that Hinata would be more suited.
Sasuke is in Konoha and He is already leaving, I think that the citizens of Konoha have not seen them, because the light in the house are on, so I believe that there will not be any fight, I think infact that Sasuke has only talked with Koharu and Homura, so he know the truth.
Sasuke tells Orochimaru to guide them, so maybe they have not yet gone in the place "that Sasuke knew very well" that Orochmaru mentioned in their last appearance.
In fact I think otherwise that if they had to go only to battlefield, the first would be Sasuke himself, or at least if Sasuke would be afraid that of a sneaky attack by Orochimaru he would have send first Juugo or Suigetsu.
I have to admit that I liked this new Orochimaru, infact since his revival Orochimaru seem that changed, he is very similar to Madara now, we can clearly see it since he comments Sasuke reaction to the fact than the chakra than they feel is of Naruto.
Apparently the group has not taken Karin, but still I think that she will manage to escape and will reunite with them, perhaps only at the battlefield.
But more importantly they have not even taken Yamato, so now I think it is most unlikely that Sasuke implants in himself the cells of Hashirama' and after that awakens so Rinnengan.
As for the rest of the chapter I loved it, even though it was expected, infact I was sure that things would go in this way.
In fact, just as it seemed at the end of last chapter, Naruto ha recharged Hinata.
In the truth he has not only recharged her, he give her (and even to all the other ninja/Kunoichi that has taken the chakra form him) more chakra that she originally had.
Infact if we put the value 100 the chakra that Hinata usually has when she begins to fight, now she would be to 120.
It is no coincidence that Hinata now stop the attack of the Juubi with the "Palm of air" using only a hand, while Hiashi few chapters ago had to use both hands (and infact this is noticed from Hiashi and Madara).
Anyways I believe that Naruto/Kurama’s chara not only increase the power of the attack, but even the reflexes and stamina.
The "place he knows well" is the leaf village
Re: Naruto 616 Discussion / 617 Predictions
well ,
I want to see next chapter and what new ability Naruto would use ..... and see the reaction of some people when Kishi turn the story on sasuke and give him some nonsense abilities from thin of air .....
.........................
anyway , this chapter was useless , we knew all of this are pointless and Madara will troll them for Nth time ...
........................
Ino couldn't hold Obito more than 2-3 seconds .... he break it easily ..... and Ino aimed on Jubbi ... this show that Tobi is the one who control Jubi at this time not Madara .....
...........................
and Naruto/kurama won't give Chakra to Kakashi ... and MS with QB's chakra ( this new chakra ) would be overpower .......
.........................
another problem is about future ... with this power up , Konoha ninja have overwhelming advantage against other villages so Kishi can't develop story for next stage ...
