Tsunade Vs Hashirama: Whose medical ninjutsu is better?

He's not shitting on her in any way. I don't agree with xXan that she's horrible and bad as hell, but the essence of what he's saying is completely true.

If Kabuto can kite her all day long until she's worn out then thats her fault. She wasn't good enough to hit him and thus got tired, that was part of the whole fight. Saying Kabuto didn't dare to fight her until she was tired is nonsense, he was waiting for the right moment to switch from defense into offense. Just because he didn't try to hit her at first and concentrated on analyzing and dodging does not make this any less of a fight.

And yes, Kabuto was the one at disadvantage. Tsunade wanted to kill them, while Kabuto's goal was to take her alive, which means she can go full force at them like a locomotive while Kabuto has to hold back all of his lethal moves which could otherwise end the fight on the first opportunity.

Tsunade's fear of blood didn't even play a role until much later in that fight.

Quote:

---

Oh, what in that fight make you think that he could kill her before she killhim? The snake, the stab? What will make a different when Tsunade is greater than Orochimaru in stamina.

---

How about placing a four elements seal on her juggs to completely mess up her ability to mold chakra? Sorry but Orochimaru with his freak body and barfing technique is way more resilent then Tsunade. Madara took her out by ripping her body in half... when that same thing happened to Orochimaru he just smirked it off with a cocky grin. Orochimaru without handicaps (i.e failing body or useless arms) would probably win even against J-Man.

^Stop lurking and return active, damn you :pwnge

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LnDRash

How about placing a four elements seal on her juggs to completely mess up her ability to mold chakra? Sorry but Orochimaru with his freak body and barfing technique is way more resilent then Tsunade. Madara took her out by ripping her body in half... when that same thing happened to Orochimaru he just smirked it off with a cocky grin. Orochimaru without handicaps (i.e failing body or useless arms) would probably win even against J-Man.

---

I think that seal worked that way it worked on Naruto because it basically screwed up Naruto's already existent seal ( destroying the balance of the Eight-trigram seal ), on a person without a seal I doubt the 5 element seal would do a thing.

What Oro lacks is fire-power, ironically what Kabuto had in spades.
Though its unquestionable that he's superior to Tsunade, you can see it just by the fact that he lasted as long as he did fighting against 2 Sannins at the same time, and matching 4-tailed Naruto like he did

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood

^Stop lurking and return active, damn you :pwnge

---

I will, sooner or later. Life's a bit stressful right now :p

Quote:

---

I think that seal worked that way it worked on Naruto because it basically screwed up Naruto's already existent seal ( destroying the balance of the Eight-trigram seal ), on a person without a seal I doubt the 5 element seal would do a thing.

---

According to the wiki this is from the first databook:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Five Elements Seal

This technique produces a powerful seal that is used to block or disturb the flow of chakra in a target. Once the seal is completed, the target will become unconscious and unable to fight for a short time.

---

But even if we assume you're right and it only works on other seals, it woulld still stand to reason that it would mess up Tsunade's Byakugō, since its based on her Yin-Seal. And well... Tsunade without her regeneration doesn't have much left in her favor :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by n0air9x9

Hashirama cells are special thanks to his Mokuton and his Senju blood + chakra, which perfectly useful for the Sharingan.. And Orochimaru cells can do the same to Kabuto.

The weird part is that Hashirama can creat "new cells", while that is the thing bonds us to the word "human".

And that's why i only want to talk about Medical Ninjutsu, not Mokuton backingup.

---

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LnDRash

He's not shitting on her in any way. I don't agree with xXan that she's horrible and bad as hell, but the essence of what he's saying is completely true.

If Kabuto can kite her all day long until she's worn out then thats her fault. She wasn't good enough to hit him and thus got tired, that was part of the whole fight. Saying Kabuto didn't dare to fight her until she was tired is nonsense, he was waiting for the right moment to switch from defense into offense. Just because he didn't try to hit her at first and concentrated on analyzing and dodging does not make this any less of a fight.

And yes, Kabuto was the one at disadvantage. Tsunade wanted to kill them, while Kabuto's goal was to take her alive, which means she can go full force at them like a locomotive while Kabuto has to hold back all of his lethal moves which could otherwise end the fight on the first opportunity.

Tsunade's fear of blood didn't even play a role until much later in that fight.

---

couldn't agree more. But if he could just damage her when she was not exhausted. That will make a perfect convince to me.

---------- Post added at 12:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

And since my view is different than yours, so i don't think 2 more pages will mean anything.

So let's stop here. Of course in that fight Tsunade sucked, must admit. But she is not that bad.

Let's turn back to the topic, about Hashirama and Tsunade medical skills.

@n0air9x9

Spoiler show

Quote:

---

Kabuto at 100% disadvantage??? LOL, he knows she is a long time no fighting old lady and fighting without thinking, and he knows her fear of blood. and he is orochimaru best student.

---

Yes he was as someone else pointed to you. Going for the capture was made clear in the manga itself (by Yamato when he had to capture Kabuto) that is a disatvantage. He has to hold of in killing her... He could have stoped her hearth but he just whent for the lungs.

Old lady.... Not that relevant. I can show you people older then her fighting like hell. That elder puppet master from sand, Danzo, Sarutobi (taijutsu fighting skills), JMan, Oro and so on. Then she would do way better then JMan or Orochimaru at that age. SHE IS A SENJU with long life and insane stamina ffs...

She had a clear head. You keep going with "no thinking" and this so absurd you have no idea... The fact that she was angry does not mean she was not thinking... 90% of all the fights in this manga whent with people that where angry... Sasuke full of hate, Raikage pissed as hell, Naruto on Nagato going insane and whanting him dead and so on... Seriously this si so irrelevant its not even funny.

Fear of blood was relevant only later in the fight. It was just about over then.

You have to understand Kabuto HIMSELF is not that good at taijutsu:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/164/6

He said so himself. If she had to fighting anybody with real skill in taijutsu she would be so god damn bad...

Quote:

---

IF Tsunade in her prime is just healing, when she is damaged by Kabuto, she think "that brat may surpassed me in my prime", in fighting skill. Then you suggest that even now she is better than her prime thanks to her byakugo. Well, that makes perfect sense! vhy she didnt think that kid surpass mine now.

---

Yeah she did state that after comparing the medical nin part:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/164/12

He just showed that he can use that palm thing to damage her like that... Also Kabuto as i said above is "not that good" at Taijutsu... If this guy is better then her in her prime is lol.

Also yes, that byakugo is the only thing that allows a medical nin to fight on the front lines, this is FACT stated so by Tsunade herself. If not for that skills they are not allowed. Here, if you don't belive me then belive her own words:

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/577

Its her own rules, they are NOT alowed to engage in battles... Then only when one can use this regen jutsu are alowed to fight:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/577/2

Quote:

---

and please, don't SHIT SHIT all around like that.

---

Why? I am not telling you that YOU are shit or something? I am talking about a manga caracter and its not like its a bad word or something.

Quote:

---

Oh, i'm not sure about this. Develop now or then, it's not seem to be the problem since the start i stated "
Tsunade with the skill in her prime + the byakugo" now.

HANZO, what would be useful to use against him since she got her teammate back up and she almost just heal. The seal is just a chakra store. And the technique is the key, not that the must be the seal to use the technique.

---

It is developed after her "youth" that was made clear IN THE MANGA by OROCHIMARU. You can try and argue with this as much as you whant but its MANGA FACT. You can't post your opinion and igore what Orochimaru stated.

Also even asuming she did only healing the seal itself would give her an INSANE chakra bonus. She could heal the entire konoha because of it. Its nonsense to asume she did not use it. Then as i said Oro would notice the seal on her bloody head.

Quote:

---

a field medical-nin must have the ability to dodge, if they want to stay alive on battle. I remember Tsunade stated this before. And Kabuto is a skillful Medical nin.

---

So where are the links to magical medical nin dodging ability? I don't see them? The fact that they must dodge attacks liver everybody else is irrelevant.

Quote:

---

Kakashi and Sasuke useage of Sharingan is different. I don;'t see he could ever predict his opponent move?

---

Huh? So you have no idea what the sharingan can do? This is the most besic ability the sharingan gets. The manga is SO full of evidence about the sharingan prediction trick is not even funny. Try reading Naruto vs Sasuke at VOE when Sasuke showes how the sharingan can show (on panel) where his oponent will be before he get's there...

Then vs Bee how Sasuke could dodge an attack that only Raikage could? Because of his sharingan and linear attack from Bee. The sharingan works best with those.

Quote:

---

And one more thing, if kakashi is so proficient at the kamui, why in the fight against Deva path, he didn't just wrap that thing head? Oh wait, he can't. That technique consume his chakra so much and consume time while Tsunade can creat a crater withn a blink.

---

Oh i don't know... Perhaps because Kakashi had no idea what Deva can do and he first does what he can to see what a person can do before wasting chakra? Good thing he did so as 1 ST would cancel the tech and Kakashi would have just wasted chakra for nothing...

Tsunade creating craters is irrelevant. She is not fighting the Planet... She is fighting something she can't hit.

Kakashi already demonstrated he is ready to use it off the bat (vs Obito but Obito told him there is no point as a tech like that would not work on him) and the fact that it works damn fast, faster then Tsunade can dodge.

Quote:

---

A sanin be defeated just that easy. Do you think that Kakashi can just easily remove her head? Please!

---

Going by what he showed in the manga... DEFENETLY.

When Kakashi was just learning his Kamui usage he could hit Deidara on his bird that is DAMN fast. Then taking away arrows, nidles and a few other crep its clear demonstration of his skill... Even Rasengan's from Naruto's hand.

You can't argue with this. He showed it SO. You need better speed then Tsunade has to dodge it.

Quote:

---

actually, aparently, you are the one who don;t know much about Tsunade. Her own raw strength was enough to do that damage, she is not sakura, her strength is 5. Her kick is only strength-based and make a crater. The lifting Gamabunta was chakra enhanced. Are you confused? Before he could remove her chakra, she could have given him one kick send him flying.

---

Seriously? Yes she does have some stg when its normal but not enough to do anything to Pein when he can take SM attacks... The real power comes from this jutsu:

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra_Enhanced_Strength

Yes i am providing a wiki, no point wasting my time pointing basic stuff like this with manga panels. You can look for it yourself. Anytime she does big damage its because its chakra diverted to her attacks to increase said damage.

She can't hit him before losing her chakra. He can drain Bee in lvl 2 in a blink... Now that is a TON of chakra.

Quote:

---

Jiraiya power, like punching power, even at his SM was only near to Tsunade normal strength, not to mention she use chakra enhanced. And his nature strength is nowhere near Tsunade power.

---

Wtf? So you are telling me Tsunade has normal stg to put giant summons into Orbit(exageration)? Ok now i have read everything.

Quote:

---

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Jiraiya

wait, do you consider this a useful source??

---

Depends what you are showing me. Thing is you also need to tell me what i am looking for as i have no idea what i am suposed to see there.

Quote:

---

Oh, then BIG technique = more power? Big technique if you missed wouldn't mean anything.

---

Yeah sure... Its not like we noticed Madara, Naruto, Sasuke and so on owning people with "big techs" right?

Quote:

---

One thing, Tsunade as long as her Byakugo activated, she can;t died. But he still can in the SM.

---

Just go for the brain. Even if it regenerates back her memories are not going to grow back.
Put a genjutsu on her, seal her or a good number of other stuff. You don't need to exacly kill her.

Quote:

---

About Orochimaru, oh sorry, the tongue thing doesn't seem to work eh? He tried to force the life out of her and the result is one of her punch sent him headdown and flees.

---

Well obviously... I would like to see Tsunade fighting Orochimaru with no hands... Then Oro at full power...

Thing is he put up a great fight there.

Quote:

---

He can do SHIT to 4tails. He tried closerang ninetail then what, it splits his bodies.

---

Look at the abilities showed there....

Quote:

---

While Tsunade with her kick can send him headdown to the ground )

---

Wow really? Then what? Not only would Kurama chakra start to burn her up and she can't jump bodies like Orochimaru but this would do no damage to Naruto himself. The Kusenagi sword that can cut adamantine can't pierce that shield.

Naruto would rip her appart. No diferent then he cut Orochimaru in half... Good thing he can pull himself back togeder... For Tsunade someone needs to bring her legs back to reatach them (curent in the manga, in half and what not).

Quote:

---

Tsunade is not an extremely powerful fighter, but she is not weak. That's all i'm saying. With the Hokage tittle, i don;t think she could be Madara take down so easily, (not Madara edo)

---

Compared to the "big boys" curently in the manga she is lol.

Quote:

---

BTw: you're the first one to compare the sanin, so CREP you. And I never mentioned one point that she could win them in battle.

---

Was this an atempt at insult?

@LnDRash

Let's be serious. When it comes to healing stuff she is the best in the manga when it comes to taijutsu and melee fighting she is horible compared to just about anybody in top tier. Kabuto himself states he is not that good at taijutsu and look what he did to Tsunade...

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/164/6

There he himself states how he is not that good... Tsunade is more like a tank... but when it comes down to skill... Who in this manga that is a melee fighter (top tier) is not better then her? I mean even Konohamaru probably showed better feats in dodging Pein and landing hits (perhaps its an exageration here :P).

Seriously fighting someone who is "not that good" at taijutsu and not landing 1 blow to the point you are exhausted (and this guy was also holding back)....

Tsunade is good at tanking and delivering damage when its a big target and she can actualy can hit it. Then she is good at healing... Face it Kishi hates women in his manga. Out of all the Kages Tsunade/Mei are probably the worse.

Seriously out of all the people in this manga i don't remember anybody else who can't land a blow on his target to the point he drops (not really but close) from exhaustion... I mean WTH? She must be really bad expecialy considering Kabuto by his own words is not that good in that area and he is also holding back. Perhaps shit is an exageration but seriously... She is bad.

Kabuto stating he's not good at Taijutsu doesn't necessarily mean he sucks at dodging though, on the contrary, he was always shown to move with almost clinical precision.

I also wouldn't take that "I'm no good at Taijutsu" statement too literally. Databook says he has a Taijutsu Skill of 3.5, which means Kishimoto thinks of Kabutos melee combat abilities as roughly equal to Sasukes. To me it looks more like he was downplaying his abilities at that point or that he meant in comparison to melee monsters like the eye-brows, Hyugas or Tsunade. Kind of like if DBZ Cells would say he's weak just because he didn't reach his perfect stage yet, or the time when Hidan said he's the slowest in Akatsuki and then fought Shikamaru+Asuma and later even Kakashi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xXan

@n0air9x9
Yes he was as someone else pointed to you. Going for the capture was made clear in the manga itself (by Yamato when he had to capture Kabuto) that is a disatvantage. He has to hold of in killing her... He could have stoped her hearth but he just whent for the lungs.

You have to understand Kabuto HIMSELF is not that good at taijutsu:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/164/6

He said so himself. If she had to fighting anybody with real skill in taijutsu she would be so god damn bad...

---

you don't need to be that good at taijutsu.

One thing, Sasuke is not that good at Taijutsu but didnt he take on even Raikage? Kabuto has something to make up on his own.

Quote:

---

She had a clear head. You keep going with "no thinking" and this so absurd you have no idea... The fact that she was angry does not mean she was not thinking... 90% of all the fights in this manga whent with people that where angry... Sasuke full of hate, Raikage pissed as hell, Naruto on Nagato going insane and whanting him dead and so on... Seriously this si so irrelevant its not even funny.

Fear of blood was relevant only later in the fight. It was just about over then.

---

I don't say she was no thinking. It's just the emotion got better of her.

Tsunade vs Kabuto: one mad, one have no emotion, just need to hold back and take her alive. -> the mind set of kabuto is better than Tsunade.
Sasuke and Raikage: both hate and pissed
Naruto and Nagato: both hatred.

the fear of blood: yes, i agree with you on that.

Quote:

---

Huh? So you have no idea what the sharingan can do? This is the most besic ability the sharingan gets. The manga is SO full of evidence about the sharingan prediction trick is not even funny. Try reading Naruto vs Sasuke at VOE when Sasuke showes how the sharingan can show (on panel) where his oponent will be before he get's there...

Then vs Bee how Sasuke could dodge an attack that only Raikage could? Because of his sharingan and linear attack from Bee. The sharingan works best with those.

Oh i don't know... Perhaps because Kakashi had no idea what Deva can do and he first does what he can to see what a person can do before wasting chakra? Good thing he did so as ST would cancel the tech and Kakashi would have just wasted chakra for nothing...

Tsunade creating craters is irrelevant. She is not fighting the Planet... She is fighting something she can't hit.

Kakashi already demonstrated he is ready to use it off the bat (vs Obito but Obito told him there is no point as a tech like that would not work on him) and the fact that it works damn fast, faster then Tsunade can dodge.

---

the sharingan use of predicting move on kakashi is something i haven't seen yet. Of course it has, but will that make him fast enough to dodge?

kakashi kamui something, i agree. But that's like the last technique he may ever want to use, so he won';t use it any chance that soon. So before that, we will see they fight first.

Quote:

---

Seriously? Yes she does have some stg when its normal but not enough to do anything to Pein when he can take SM attacks... The real power comes from this jutsu:

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra_Enhanced_Strength

Yes i am providing a wiki, no point wasting my time pointing basic stuff like this with manga panels. You can look for it yourself. Anytime she does big damage its because its chakra diverted to her attacks to increase said damage.

She can't hit him before losing her chakra. He can drain Bee in lvl 2 in a blink... Now that is a TON of chakra.



Wtf? So you are telling me Tsunade has normal stg to put giant summons into Orbit(exageration)? Ok now i have read everything.

---

No, i already stated this. From the link you provided, Tsunade raw strength was already enough to crushing stones in a single hand with nothing but pure muscle power. and from the link of jiraiya i provided, she is already stronger than JMan on this side, the nature strength....

and i stated this, the lifting blade is chakra enhanced. The ground thing is my mistake.

Quote:

---

Just go for the brain. Even if it regenerates back her memories are not going to grow back.
Put a genjutsu on her, seal her or a good number of other stuff. You don't need to exacly kill her.

---

IF he knows that the brain is the target to hit. So why don't Tsunade hit him in the brain. I mean, seriously, you think like Jiraiya can just hit it that easy. Why don't you let her hit Jiraiya.

Put a genjutu, yup, that will work. I agree with you on this. But then what?

And i already said this, Jiraiya wins Tsunade.

Quote:

---

Well obviously... I would like to see Tsunade fighting Orochimaru with no hands... Then Oro at full power...

Thing is he put up a great fight there.

Look at the abilities showed there....

Wow really? Then what? Not only would Kurama chakra start to burn her up and she can't jump bodies like Orochimaru but this would do no damage to Naruto himself. The Kusenagi sword that can cut adamantine can't pierce that shield.

---

No, he didn't. Manda fight for him, not him. Tsunade vs Orochimaru in one scene, he wrap her neck and she punch him. That's it.

The Kurama chakra, you pushed it down, and then push yourself back before the heat take effect. Orochimaru let that Snake slike on the kyuubi chakra hand.

She can't pierce through that, I totally agree. But she can do more damage than Orochimaru could.

Quote:

---

Naruto would rip her appart. No diferent then he cut Orochimaru in half... Good thing he can pull himself back togeder... For Tsunade someone needs to bring her legs back to reatach them (curent in the manga, in half and what not).

---

that will be the same problem to Orochimaru when his body reached its limit. Its not like he just do that over and over and over. So with byakugo, it will heal her.

Quote:

---

Was this an atempt at insult?

---

this is totally my bad. Sr for such word.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LnDRash

Kabuto stating he's not good at Taijutsu doesn't necessarily mean he sucks at dodging though, on the contrary, he was always shown to move with almost clinical precision.

I also wouldn't take that "I'm no good at Taijutsu" statement too literally. Databook says he has a Taijutsu Skill of 3.5, which means Kishimoto thinks of Kabutos melee combat abilities as roughly equal to Sasukes. To me it looks more like he was downplaying his abilities at that point or that he meant in comparison to melee monsters like the eye-brows, Hyugas or Tsunade. Kind of like if DBZ Cells would say he's weak just because he didn't reach his perfect stage yet, or the time when Hidan said he's the slowest in Akatsuki and then fought Shikamaru+Asuma and later even Kakashi.

---

No idea how much he sucks at dodging but this is a man that from his own admision is not that good at taijutsu. Taijutsu includes dodging.

Also a 3.5 in taijutsu? Gues what are the stats of Tenten in databook 2, that would be 3,5.... Databooks are just bad. Kabuto would eat Tenten alive in a taijutsu fight.

Again a guy who states himself is not that good in that area, who is HOLDING BACK and she can't land 1 bloody hit on him to the point she almost goes down from exhaustion.

Name 1 more caracter in the entire manga that is this blind.

Databook:

Spoiler show

Tenten
Ninja Registration Serial Number: 012573
Ninja Academy Graduation Age: 12
Missions:

D Rank — 24
C Rank — 13
B Rank — 0
A Rank — 0
S Rank — 0

Birthday: March 9th (13 years old, Pisces)
Height: 155.6cm
Weight: 43.1 kg
Blood Type: B
Personality: Research Enthusiast, Busybody
Likes Food: Chinese food, sesame ball, dango
Dislikes Food: Umeboshi (dried plum)
Specialty Jutsu: Attacks with Ninja Tools
Desired Opponent: Temari, Sakura
Hobby: Fortune telling

"Dancing flexibly and firing speedily, a lively and magnificent kunoichi!!"
"Tsunade-sama has returned!!"

The sole female on the "fervent" Team Gai. Tenten, who acts as a training opponent for Neji and Lee, has pride in attacking with her magnificent weapons. Her real power is being recognized by her two teammates, but she sometimes shows a carefree smiling face, though she has what may be the greatest and strongest weapons arsenal.

Tenten's aim is to become a strong ninja like the "Legendary Kunoichi," Tsunade. As the legendary Tsunade has become the Fifth Hokage, her daily training has become more fervent than ever before!

DB2 Statistics:

Ninjutsu: 2.5
Taijutsu: 3.5
Genjutsu: 1.5
Knowledge: 2.5
Strength: 1
Speed: 3.5
Stamina: 1.5
Seal: 2

@n0air9x9

Quote:

---

you don't need to be that good at taijutsu.

One thing, Sasuke is not that good at Taijutsu but didnt he take on even Raikage? Kabuto has something to make up on his own.

---

Sasuke is not a monster in taijutsu but he is not bad... He copy- pasted Lee ability in part 1, he was moving identicly like Lee.... Also he has a SHARINGAN... That thing allows him to dodge like crazy.

Quote:

---

I don't say she was no thinking. It's just the emotion got better of her.

---

Not even 1 indication or insinuation about this in the entire fight. You are just trying to find excuses.

Quote:

---

Tsunade vs Kabuto: one mad, one have no emotion, just need to hold back and take her alive. -> the mind set of kabuto is better than Tsunade.
Sasuke and Raikage: both hate and pissed
Naruto and Nagato: both hatred.

---

Tsunade was at best angry. Nothing that would impair her fighting skills. You are free to find any indication from any of the combatands to support this. 1 single line. Something like Tsunade is fighting bad because she is so angry or whatever else, even a lot more subtile.

Sasuke was not mad or anything at Raikage. Raikage was going nuts on the other hand. Raikage was just in his way and completly irrelevant to him (from his vangeance POV).

Naruto was pissed as hell and Nagato was calm as hell. Yes he hated the world but in his fight with Naruto he even stoped and had a chat with him to explain his situation... This is not a man full of hate that whants you dead would do. He did not even whant Naruto dead as he needed him alive.
Sasuke vs Danzo. Sasuke so full of hate and whanting him dead its not even funny... Did that effected his fighting ability? No. Not even a little. He used his head, he formed tactics, he was finding out how Izanagi works and so on.

Quote:

---

the sharingan use of predicting move on kakashi is something i haven't seen yet. Of course it has, but will that make him fast enough to dodge?

---

The basic abilities are shared by all sharingan users. The more tomoe you have the better. Sasuke whent from a punching bag to Naruto in part 1 when he had 2 tomoe to dodging ALL ATTACKS from him when he got 3 tomoe... That is just 1 tomoe of diference going from punching bag to dodging everything... You can imagine what no sharingan and sharingan can do. Yes a sharingan gives you insane ability to dodge attacks because you know what the enemy is going to do before he does it.

Quote:

---

kakashi kamui something, i agree. But that's like the last technique he may ever want to use, so he won';t use it any chance that soon. So before that, we will see they fight first.

---

Diference is he knows Tsunade, he knows she can't defend herself. Kakashi would have no need to hold back to see what Tsunade can do considering he knows her.

Quote:

---

No, i already stated this. From the link you provided, Tsunade raw strength was already enough to crushing stones in a single hand with nothing but pure muscle power. and from the link of jiraiya i provided, she is already stronger than JMan on this side, the nature strength....

and i stated this, the lifting blade is chakra enhanced. The ground thing is my mistake.

---

Come one, crushing in her hand is diferent then doing damage to People like Pein. She defenedly needs her chakra attack do do anything to him... Kabuto himself was hit with no chakra attack and he was just fine. The ability that kills you in 1 single hit are her special chakra hits.

Also there is no way she is stronger then a SM user with her natural strengh. She needed chakra empowerment to jump with the sword. Naruto could SLAM THE KYUUBI like a PUPPET with his BARE HANDS... Seriously man... Naruto true a huge summon into the sky and other insane crep. I am not sure she is on Naruto's level of stg (a SM user) even with her chakra power... I most defenetly don't see Tsunade grabing Kurama with her bare hands and smashing it about...

Just look at Naruto here:

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/497/8

You actualy belive anybody would belive she can do that with her normal stg? That is not a sword, that is not even Gamabunta or Orochimaru's huge snake... THAT IS KYUUBI, the most powerfull biju (aside for the Juubi)....

That is the level of stg SM grants a user ...

Quote:

---

IF he knows that the brain is the target to hit. So why don't Tsunade hit him in the brain. I mean, seriously, you think like Jiraiya can just hit it that easy. Why don't you let her hit Jiraiya.

Put a genjutu, yup, that will work. I agree with you on this. But then what?

And i already said this, Jiraiya wins Tsunade.

---

How would JMan hit her head? Simple he is way, and i mean WAY faster then her in SM.
Pein was made clear that was keeping up because of his shared vision as JMan was poping behind him over and over...

Also when you have a ultimate Susano the size of this:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/377/12

You would need to be as blind as bat to miss with it... The databook stated that this jutsu can hollow out MOUNTAINS, of course exageration there but still its an indication of how powerfull that Rasengan is.

Also what after puting her in genjutsu? Simple, smash her brain. Teleport back with her to Frog Mountain and trow some oil on her and turn her into the statue and other crep.

Quote:

---

No, he didn't. Manda fight for him, not him. Tsunade vs Orochimaru in one scene, he wrap her neck and she punch him. That's it.

The Kurama chakra, you pushed it down, and then push yourself back before the heat take effect. Orochimaru let that Snake slike on the kyuubi chakra hand.

She can't pierce through that, I totally agree. But she can do more damage than Orochimaru could.

---

Manda is a ninja tool. That falls under his power and his abilities. You cant deny that Orochimaru with NO HANDS and NO JUTSUS could take on the other 2 sannin (even if Jman had problems himself).

As for Kurama... Its not heat. Its more like poison. Once it effects you it spreads. A simple swipe of the tail on Sakura was ENOUGH to put her down and have Kabuto heal her up.

Do more damage to Naruto then Oro? She can't even get close to Naruto... She would get slice in half like Oro if she get's close man...1 bijudama and she is dust.

Quote:

---

that will be the same problem to Orochimaru when his body reached its limit. Its not like he just do that over and over and over. So with byakugo, it will heal her.

---

His body got to the limit but not because of Naruto's attacks. He body was failing on him. He needed to change bodies. Kurama's damage did yo him had nothing to do with it. Orochimaru was acutaly upseat that his body expired...

I would love to see her Byakugo heal her from missing half her torso...

Quote:

---

this is totally my bad. Sr for such word.

---

Well no problem. No idea who started it or how we got here but for me its irrelevant. We are debating this. This topic is about Tsunade so its not even THAT off topic. It is somewhat but still...

EDIT:

The sharingan is explained here:

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/230/6

look at that speed.

Here it is stated:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/230/7

I know databooks are flawed, but it gives us an indication on how Kishimoto views his own characters. Failing to display those character traits during actual manga panels is another story.

Anyway, Kabuto saying he's no good at taijutsu and then besting a top tier taijutsu user aka. Tsunade (at least thats what she's supposed to be since Kishi gave her a 5 in strength and taijutsu and treats her as powerful enough to be considered Hokage) looks to me more like a case of a guy who's having high expectations of himself. Maybe he just said that not because his taijutsu sucks, but only because his taijutsu "sucks" in comparison to his other skills.

Just for example: I'm a hobby runner and at my best I can keep on running for 3 hours straight before I reach uncomfortable levels of fatigue and strain. Some years ago I got sick and had to pause for almost a year, and once I got back into running I could only do one hour. Would you say someone who can keep on running a hour without much effort sucks at running? Probably not, but in my own opinion I sucked at that time and I kept on saying so. In fact, even now that I'm back at my best for over two years I still keep on saying I suck because I know of other guys in even better shape :p

Its all relative.

@LnDRash

Well if he is as good as Tenten that slap me silly as i don't care lol.

Also for your comparison... Yeah he meant he is not that good in taijutsu. You can turn it around like that but its serious nitpiking there.

Seriously this is about her not hitting that guy like at ALL. If he was Raikage with his speed.. Ok but Kabuto? That is the point. Its how bad she is in corelation to this guy. Kabuto was not bad at taijutsu, he is good enough BUT how bad is she for not hitting him?

Tenten is part of Gai's team, it would actually make sense for her to have good taijutsu skills. Kishi just never bothered to develop her so she probably looks way worse then he intended her to be.

As for how bad Tsunade is for not hitting Kabuto: Well yeah, like I said, its her fault for not being good enough to land a hit, but lets not downplay Kabuto to make her look worse then she actually is. Getting a hit on Kakashi isn't easy either (can't think of any situation where someone actually landed a hit on that guy without immobilizing him first) and Kabuto is said to be his equal.

http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v61/c583/13.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v34/c304/5.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v18/c156/3.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v18/c156/4.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v39/c357/6.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v39/c357/7.html

Kabuto may not have Raikage's speed, but he certainly knows how to move effectively and has great reflexes and awareness. If he focuses on dodging alone I can understands its not a simple feat to land a hit.

The problem with Tsunade's fighting style is that a punch is pretty predictable in nature, especially when she has to pull back her arm beforehand. It's easy to see that it's coming and even where it's aim. The fact that Tsunade relies upon her chakra to power those punches and thus is limited to that sole attack, as oppose to someone like Ee or Gai who's strength can be used in various ways, just makes it worst. She really can't disguise or bluff her attack.

I think someone should edit the title.

''Whose medical ninjutsu is better? Tsunade or kabuto'' or ''who's the strongest medical ninja? Kabuto or tsunade?:derp

How come for others, tsunade is a garbage/trash? There's some poster who keep on insisting that tsunade's sucked because of her fight with kabuto. But for kabuto, who was hit by tsunade and disturbed/paralized his nerve, even surprised or amused how awesome tsunade is.

Kabuto : is this the power of a sannin?

Tsunade could kill kabuto at that time if she wants to. But she didn't. The moment kabuto was paralized his nerve, tsunade can punched him to death or stabbed him with a a kunai or a bamboo stick.:teehee

@LnDRash

Quote:

---

Tenten is part of Gai's team, it would actually make sense for her to have good taijutsu skills. Kishi just never bothered to develop her so she probably looks way worse then he intended her to be.

---

Just because she is part of a taijutsu team does not mean she is a good taijutsu user herself. All the ninja's have stgs in diferent areas.

Take Kurena's team. She is a genjutsu master but even so nobody and i mean nobody in her team even ends up using genjutsu.

Tenten is a long range specialist and a weapon specialist (not taijutsu) Taijutsu? Not that much. Well at least going by anything the manga showed.

Quote:

---

but lets not downplay Kabuto to make her look worse

---

I am not doing that anymore then what he himself stated in the manga. He said he is not that good in that areas so i posted that, his own words. This does not mean he is bad in that area, that means he is not that good in that area. He is probably somewhere in the middle area. Then this guy was holding back...
I am not downplaying him, just statng what happened there.

Quote:

---

nd Kabuto is said to be his equal.

---

Yeah i don't see this part. At least in dodging. There is no way Kabuto can keep up in that area considering Kakashi has a sharingan. Kabuto compensates in other areas of course but in dodging... He really can't.

Of course SM Kabuto is ahead even here but i am refering to part 1 Kabuto not super Kabuto.

Quote:

---

Kabuto may not have Raikage's speed, but he certainly knows how to move effectively and has great reflexes and awareness. If he focuses on dodging alone I can understands its not a simple feat to land a hit.

---

Simple no, but to land 0 blows and keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over again when you see IT DOES NOT WORK and you are just going to drop from exhaustion.... Its something to do with Tsunade's taijutsu skills and in the end TACTICS. How stupid you must be to keep trying the same thing that you can clearly see ITS NOT WORKING, like at ALL... At least summon the bloody worm (forgot its name) or try something else (no idea what lol).

Again not downplaying Kabuto, he is not bad in the area but he is not good. I am just using what he stated and the obvious that he was holding back. Stating you are not that good in an area does not mean you are bad, just that you are not THAT good. Kabuto actualy showed there to be tactical the way he worked Tsunade to the point she could not fight and disabled her. Only mistake he did is to underestimate her got hit when he belived Tsunade was down.

PS. Obviously he has better feats in part 2 :P(the links you posted).

@marshall313

Quote:

---

Tsunade could kill kabuto at that time if she wants to. But she didn't. The moment kabuto was paralized his nerve,

---

Going by your mind alone, not the manga. Do you even know WHY he got hit? Because he wanted her alive, did not use letal force AND STOPED after he hit her:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/164/12

He stoped fighting. Also she stoped as she needed to heal up, she herself could barely stand man:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/164/15
Not only that she COULD NOT use her super stg to 1 shoot him as Kabuto removed her ability to do that:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/164/11

SHE WAS LEFT WITH NORMAL PUNCHES. She was FORCED to stop and heal. You have to understand that he LET HER LIVE;
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/164/12

Quote:

---

tsunade can punched him to death or stabbed him with a a kunai or a bamboo stick

---

She first needs to hit him... And aparently she can't do that.... She tryied to the point she was almost out of chakra.