Re: why naruto is a broken main character/ where sasuke hate comes from
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Exodi
Seeing my name so many times in someone else's post is so weird. O_O
I'll apologize for insulting your intelligence by telling you your interpretation was juvenile. I still stand by everything else I said, however. Also, notice how I never responded to your response. Maybe, somehow, I saw and understood some of the points you made. Or perhaps I was just waiting for another chance to "gank" you. You decide.
Lastly, I'll address the fanboy part, the part I least want to address, because I'm way too old for that:
Trying to defend the main character doesn't always necessarily equate to "fanboyism".
I merely offered my own interpretation of Naruto's character, though admittedly maybe harshly shutting you down in the process (probably because the tone of your posts is extremely frustrated). Like someone else said, it all really is just a matter of opinion, so we all can benefit from choosing our words carefully.
In the future, however, if you want someone to take you seriously, try thinking about what you're writing and how it sounds to people who are reading it. Uchiha_Blood said it pretty well, I think.
Conclusion:
Naruto is the main character who has gone from being hated by most everyone to being loved by the entire village. The way he fights is simple, yes, but it is unique to him, and I believe changing that changes how we'd perceive him as well. .
That is all. :)
i understand i can get frustrated sorry if i came at you no harm its just man like im not saying his fighting style needs to be revamped just IMPROVED hes been doing the same thing since part 1 it would be nice to see something new and refreshing, the reason i compared him to sasuke is cause theyre rivals. how can they be rivals if sauske is using kirin, amateratsu and has super spped, intellect and all this stuff but naruto cant do one handed rasengan? he needs to tarin, he doesnt need to change just improve on some of his styles. improvement is changing the character completely, itd be nice to see some developement so we can know hes acutally maturing cause his mind state and battle style are still in part 1imho. everyone else seems to have new things cept naruto all he has is power ups and different rasengans
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
Naruto can do one handed rasengan, despite what people says, but he chooses not to because it's too easy for people to counter. Just look at his one-handed rasengan against Kabuto, and how easily Kabuto dodged it. And then look at his clone-used rasengan - he successfully hit Kabuto. Clones just make it easier for Naruto to do rasengan so he can have an easier time of hitting the person instead of being too obvious about it, kinda like how he was with FRS when he was fighting Kakuzu.
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
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I mean, Naruto can easily be a great character. He was complex, and he evolved over time, since the beginning of manga. Then he started to devolve. Sasuke however, improved. Instead of just being all REVENGE REVENGE, he's actually questioning his path. He wasn't just one-track mind back when he wanted revenge against Itachi, he refused to kill anyone not associated with Itachi.
thats what i mean, sauske i questioning his life and has made many improvements mental and physically that we can see. naruto is still the same hot headed ninja that rushes off without thinking or preparing fully, he still has the same motivation since part 1 while sasuke is making great strides even bringing back oro to find the answer hes looking for. naruto hasnt even questioned himself why he wants to save sasuke or how hes even gonna do it, he thinks theyre gonna fight and thats it. lifes not that simple and naruto needs to realize that. i really hop he doesnt turn obito good cause that will keep his head in the clouds and wont introduce him to the real reality that there are people who are evil for the sake of being evil and sometimes you can change their minds and you have to let them be
but what am i saying the story doesnt make sense theyre all fighting for peace, why not just let them cast it without killing everyone? it may be fake peace but eventually everyone would come to terms with it and you can live how and wherever you want...seems alright to me XD lmfao and if not why cant they just sit and jam out over a cup of sake and talk things over? if they all want peace why not reach a conclusion that benefits both sides. no more wars or battles for naruto, no taking over the world for obito lol seems fair to me
---------- Post added at 10:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 AM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Naruto can do one handed rasengan, despite what people says, but he chooses not to because it's too easy for people to counter. Just look at his one-handed rasengan against Kabuto, and how easily Kabuto dodged it. And then look at his clone-used rasengan - he successfully hit Kabuto. Clones just make it easier for Naruto to do rasengan so he can have an easier time of hitting the person instead of being too obvious about it, kinda like how he was with FRS when he was fighting Kakuzu.
clones is a waste of chakra. why not fight hand to hand and catch them off guard with a sudden rasengan like minato? im sure thatll have more impact and shock value rather than taking something you know is coming straight at you
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
Naruto can do one handed rasengan, despite what people says, but he chooses not to because it's too easy for people to counter. Just look at his one-handed rasengan against Kabuto, and how easily Kabuto dodged it. And then look at his clone-used rasengan - he successfully hit Kabuto. Clones just make it easier for Naruto to do rasengan so he can have an easier time of hitting the person instead of being too obvious about it, kinda like how he was with FRS when he was fighting Kakuzu.
I am sorry but this is the most screwed up logic ever and I will never agree with or understand this.
Naruto couldn't hit Kabuto because he was too slow. He ended up finally hitting him with a Rasengan because he held him in place and had a clone make the Rasengan for him in one hand.
Making clones takes up more time, more chakra, and I'm sorry, but should make it more obvious that he is going to make a Rasengan.
If Naruto could simply have made Rasengans with one hand quickly, he could be in a fist fight and then WHAM! Crack someone with one and level them. But instead, he has to go through the trouble of making a clone and then making one which logically should be more obvious, time consuming, and uses more energy.
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
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Originally Posted by
shafagh
I am here since 2008 ( but I signed up in 2009 ) ....
and back then people didn't bash on Naruto so much .... some people ( and myself ) had problem with some issue like reviving konoha ninja and etc .... but after kage summit and Kishi new style ( trying to make manga super epic with jesus no jutsu , big no jutsu , TNJ , Edo tenssi and etc ... ) more people come and criticism Naruto manga ....
and honestly , I didn't hate Naruto and saw him as acceptable main character till kage summit arc but after that kishi turned him to Jesus and Naruto saying big things without thinking about it , then I hate him . ....
and about Sasuke .... well he was better character till the end of kage summit arc .... after that he wasn't in manga and I really don't like his new style .... he rushing to his end without having a plane for after his revenge mission .... and Susanoo is lame ....
Kishi turned Sasuke to 2nd Itachi ....
same thing for me i made my account last year but ive been comoing to this site since 06 when i started reading the manga and no one bashed it but for me after the pain fight it went downhill cause pain was somewhat fodderized then he just kept getting stronger and stronger while his base skills stayed the same and yes kishi did turn sasuke into the 2nd itachi, he loves the uchiha and places them abovve all other clans you can just tell by his writing and how the uchiha are shown as the ultimate clan, he doesnt outright say it but compared to everyone else the uchiha are tooo op and if i had the choice id pick uchiha over being any other type of nin and im sure most would too
---------- Post added at 10:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 AM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delbi
I am sorry but this is the most screwed up logic ever and I will never agree with or understand this.
Naruto couldn't hit Kabuto because he was too slow. He ended up finally hitting him with a Rasengan because he held him in place and had a clone make the Rasengan for him in one hand.
Making clones takes up more time, more chakra, and I'm sorry, but should make it more obvious that he is going to make a Rasengan.
If Naruto could simply have made Rasengans with one hand quickly, he could be in a fist fight and then WHAM! Crack someone with one and level them. But instead, he has to go through the trouble of making a clone and then making one which logically should be more obvious, time consuming, and uses more energy.
thats what im saying! we all thought he was gonna be able to do this stuff by now soo like wtf? why not have him master his own skills before he gets new ones? i thought hed be making tornados, one handed rasengans and fighting like a boss and not needing to make 100 clone distractions anymore or a power boost so he can make a hit? its not what i expected in the least he should be leauges above what he is now
---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------
he shouldnt need to spam rasengan at the beginning, middle and end of the fight hoping to land a hit, he should be past that by now
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delbi
Sasuke doesn't have the mentality of a winner? Sasuke has literally gone to the ends of the earth, allied himself with the most dangerous people possible in search for power. He's succeeded at everything he's done in life. Just because he's an asshole doesn't make him a loser.
And again, you fail to understand Sasuke if you think he is "weak minded". The guy keeps chugging along on willpower despite his world continually being shattered. If he was "weak-minded' he would have curled up into a ball the day his brother killed his family. Instead, he trained himself everyday, and kept training and looking for power until he confronted his brother, and then did so with no fear until he was nearly killed. Even with no chakra left he didn't give up until he was literally backed into a corner.
You also say he is easily manipulated, and yet he's the one been doing the manipulating. He tricked Konoha, tricked Orochimaru (who is no his subordinate) tricked Obito. Make no mistake, Sasuke plays games with those he is with to his own ends and his own ends alone. He is patient, and knows the right time to strike, and is likewise conscious of his own short comings (he admitted he could not defeat Orochimaru unless he was sick).
And not to say anything, but Lebron has played the sore loser card more than most. Sasuke is no inbred, and the fact that Lebron has more natural talent than nearly any human beng on the planet kind of goes against his "winner" mentality. Michael Jordan has a winners mentality because he hated losing more than he loved winning. Lebron isn't like that lol.
I don't even think Sasuke is an a-hole. In fact, I feel for him because he has never known what a village or community really means. He has lived in his own world for a long time fuelled by his hatred for Itachi and now for the leaf. In fact, his hatred is now an addiction. I am not sure he can even overcome it even if he manages by some miracle to wipe out the whole of the leaf.
Sasuke's progress is not based on will power or a winning mentality. It is based purely on hatred - pure and simple. This was proven in the forest of death. He was against an opponent he didn't hate and what happened to him? Weak at the knees, did he not get?
You can't say his progress has been based on a winning mentality. It has been fueled by emotion and very distructive at that (ask Manda / ask Karin) and that's why he will sacrifice his comrades to get his goal. How did he trick the leaf?
You say he tricked Oro - anyone could have seen Oro was not well. Sasuke took a risk with Oro based on his hatred for the leaf. That hatred was so much he went down a destructive path refusing to see any light. That is not being smart, that is destructuve behaviour. As for Tobi, Sasuke fell hook, line and sinker for the story he was told. He may have his own plan, but Jyuubi would not be revived today if not for Sasuke. He aimlessly went to get the hachibi because he thought Tobi will give him what he wants. Again destrucitve behaviour.
Sasuke does not even play the sore loser card which is a trait of people with a winning mentality (they hate losing). Sasuke is purely emotional. Talent may make him similar to Lebron but I think that is were the similarities end.
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kid Chameleone
thats what i mean, sauske i questioning his life and has made many improvements mental and physically that we can see. naruto is still the same hot headed ninja that rushes off without thinking or preparing fully, he still has the same motivation since part 1 while sasuke is making great strides even bringing back oro to find the answer hes looking for. naruto hasnt even questioned himself why he wants to save sasuke or how hes even gonna do it, he thinks theyre gonna fight and thats it. lifes not that simple and naruto needs to realize that. i really hop he doesnt turn obito good cause that will keep his head in the clouds and wont introduce him to the real reality that there are people who are evil for the sake of being evil and sometimes you can change their minds and you have to let them be
Naruto said he wanted to save Sasuke because Sasuke was one of the first bonds he's had, and that he considerd Sasuke like a friend/brother. Naruto implied that he'll save Sasuke by beating him up and possibly killing him.
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but what am i saying the story doesnt make sense theyre all fighting for peace, why not just let them cast it without killing everyone? it may be fake peace but eventually everyone would come to terms with it and you can live how and wherever you want...seems alright to me XD lmfao and if not why cant they just sit and jam out over a cup of sake and talk things over? if they all want peace why not reach a conclusion that benefits both sides. no more wars or battles for naruto, no taking over the world for obito lol seems fair to me
Fake peace is not permanent peace, people won't automatically come to terms with it. THey need to understand each other, not be fake peace. :ombunny
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clones is a waste of chakra. why not fight hand to hand and catch them off guard with a sudden rasengan like minato? im sure thatll have more impact and shock value rather than taking something you know is coming straight at you
Because Naruto cannot do sudden rasengan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delbi
I am sorry but this is the most screwed up logic ever and I will never agree with or understand this.
Naruto couldn't hit Kabuto because he was too slow. He ended up finally hitting him with a Rasengan because he held him in place and had a clone make the Rasengan for him in one hand.
Making clones takes up more time, more chakra, and I'm sorry, but should make it more obvious that he is going to make a Rasengan.
If Naruto could simply have made Rasengans with one hand quickly, he could be in a fist fight and then WHAM! Crack someone with one and level them. But instead, he has to go through the trouble of making a clone and then making one which logically should be more obvious, time consuming, and uses more energy.
I thought it took Naruto more time to do two-handed rasengan. He can't do one hand rasengan, and it takes up a lot of concentration for him to do two-handed rasengan, which is why he's using a clone. It's easier for him, I guess.
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
Quote:
Originally Posted by
samsiufan
Sasuke's progress is not based on will power or a winning mentality. It is based purely on hatred - pure and simple. This was proven in the forest of death. He was against an opponent he didn't hate and what happened to him? Weak at the knees, did he not get?
This is poor example. Nearly every ninja in the manga has had moments of weakness, Naruto and Kakashi included. Do they not have winning mentalities?
Everyone has a goal that drives them. Sasuke's was revenge. Naruto's was too be Hokage. Kakashi's was to protect his comrades. Each uses different emotions to fuel these goals. Wanting to win because you are hate something and want to destroy it is no different than wanting to win because you want to protect something. Difference is, once you have revenge, what else is there? Sasuke has a need t win because he wants revenge and wants to set things right. He has a win at all costs mentality, that should be plainly obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
samsiufan
You can't say his progress has been based on a winning mentality. It has been fueled by emotion and very distructive at that (ask Manda / ask Karin) and that's why he will sacrifice his comrades to get his goal. How did he trick the leaf?
Sasuke's progress has been based on win at all costs. He doesn't care if he has to cheat, lie steal, or kill people to get what he wants. That sounds awful, but it is still a winners attitude in the ninja world, do whatever you have to do win.
As for how he tricked the leaf, he lied to his comrades, took an oath to defend his village and betrayed them despite the faith they had in him. He more so tricked his team and Kakashi than anyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
samsiufan
You say he tricked Oro - anyone could have seen Oro was not well. Sasuke took a risk with Oro based on his hatred for the leaf. That hatred was so much he went down a destructive path refusing to see any light. That is not being smart, that is destructuve behaviour. As for Tobi, Sasuke fell hook, line and sinker for the story he was told. He may have his own plan, but Jyuubi would not be revived today if not for Sasuke. He aimlessly went to get the hachibi because he thought Tobi will give him what he wants. Again destrucitve behaviour.
Anyone could have seen Oro was not well but few had the abilities, know how, or balls to defeat him when the time was right. Sasuke was cunning, he knew from the moment he came to Orochimaru that he wasn't going to be with him forever, same goes with him and Obito. They were means to an end, no more, no less.
You call this destructive behavior and yet Sasuke has not been destroyed, he's stronger than ever and is searching for the answers. He is looking for clarity, and now has his head on straight to do so. I don't think you could be any more wrong in that regard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
samsiufan
Sasuke does not even play the sore loser card which is a trait of people with a winning mentality (they hate losing). Sasuke is purely emotional. Talent may make him similar to Lebron but I think that is were the similarities end.
Sasuke has killed himself training and fighting since the night his family has died to be where he is at now. You say he doesn't hate losing? Are you serious? Look at what steps he took once he realized Naruto was surpassing him. As soon as he saw Naruto's Rasengan was more powerful than his chidori, he was pissed and wanted more strength. As soon as he clashed with Naruto again recently he immediately told Obito he wanted his brothers eyes and told Naruto he'd kill him to prove a point.
Sasuke has always been competitive and a sore loser, always. His fight with Lee is another example of this.
IMO you have either ignored these things are simply forgot. But one of themes of this manga is Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry. It wouldn't be much of a rivalry if they both weren't sore losers and wanted to better the other and hated losing. Both are driven by emotion, and both work hard to achieve what they want despite how hard things can be.
---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
I thought it took Naruto more time to do two-handed rasengan. He can't do one hand rasengan, and it takes up a lot of concentration for him to do two-handed rasengan, which is why he's using a clone. It's easier for him, I guess.
Point is he should have learned how to do it with one hand by now. He's been performing the technique for over 4 years and his chakra control is great now.
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
True, true, I don't know why he doesn't do it, but I guess that'd make him too overpowered. Imagine 20 Naruto coming at you with rasengan, or fighting trickster Naruto who could use rasengan anytime. It'd be hard to beat him when you don't know when he'll bust out a powerful move.
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
Quote:
Originally Posted by
M3J
True, true, I don't know why he doesn't do it, but I guess that'd make him too overpowered. Imagine 20 Naruto coming at you with rasengan, or fighting trickster Naruto who could use rasengan anytime. It'd be hard to beat him when you don't know when he'll bust out a powerful move.
I guess but Kishi could have not powered him like he did now in that case.
It really doesn't matter at this point because when he's in RK Mode he just creates more arms to help him.
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
Hell, he can even do FRS without needing a clone in Kyuubi Chakra mode, so I guess he can technically do rasengan one handed now, which makes no sense but whatever.
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
see thats what i mean like why keep powering up one move why not make naruto whole?
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kid Chameleone
see thats what i mean like why keep powering up one move why not make naruto whole?
Bad writing. Not to mention Naruto needed those additional power ups to compete with the Kages, Akatsuki, Sasuke, etc.
IMO this isn't a Naruto a problem, but a Kishi problem. In an attempt to expand on the powers of characters he made them too God like and thus had to make Naruto and Sasuke be God like with their powers too.
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
Something to do with Naruto as a character? I never understood that myself, considering Naruto is smarter htan given credit for. He'd be so dangerous with more jutsu in his arsenal. Give him few C-rank wind jutsu and he'd probably turn them into dangerous jutsu. He was able to make kage bunshin-henge no jutsu and trick Kiba twice, I think. He also used clones to create his own version of Lion Barrage, which was effective. I guess he'd be too overpowered with more jutsu?
Re: Why Naruto is a broken main character/ where Sasuke's hate comes from
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delbi
This is poor example. Nearly every ninja in the manga has had moments of weakness, Naruto and Kakashi included. Do they not have winning mentalities?
Everyone has a goal that drives them. Sasuke's was revenge. Naruto's was too be Hokage. Kakashi's was to protect his comrades. Each uses different emotions to fuel these goals. Wanting to win because you are hate something and want to destroy it is no different than wanting to win because you want to protect something. Difference is, once you have revenge, what else is there? Sasuke has a need t win because he wants revenge and wants to set things right. He has a win at all costs mentality, that should be plainly obvious.
Sasuke's progress has been based on win at all costs. He doesn't care if he has to cheat, lie steal, or kill people to get what he wants. That sounds awful, but it is still a winners attitude in the ninja world, do whatever you have to do win.
As for how he tricked the leaf, he lied to his comrades, took an oath to defend his village and betrayed them despite the faith they had in him. He more so tricked his team and Kakashi than anyone else.
Anyone could have seen Oro was not well but few had the abilities, know how, or balls to defeat him when the time was right. Sasuke was cunning, he knew from the moment he came to Orochimaru that he wasn't going to be with him forever, same goes with him and Obito. They were means to an end, no more, no less.
You call this destructive behavior and yet Sasuke has not been destroyed, he's stronger than ever and is searching for the answers. He is looking for clarity, and now has his head on straight to do so. I don't think you could be any more wrong in that regard.
Sasuke has killed himself training and fighting since the night his family has died to be where he is at now. You say he doesn't hate losing? Are you serious? Look at what steps he took once he realized Naruto was surpassing him. As soon as he saw Naruto's Rasengan was more powerful than his chidori, he was pissed and wanted more strength. As soon as he clashed with Naruto again recently he immediately told Obito he wanted his brothers eyes and told Naruto he'd kill him to prove a point.
Sasuke has always been competitive and a sore loser, always. His fight with Lee is another example of this.
IMO you have either ignored these things are simply forgot. But one of themes of this manga is Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry. It wouldn't be much of a rivalry if they both weren't sore losers and wanted to better the other and hated losing. Both are driven by emotion, and both work hard to achieve what they want despite how hard things can be.
---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------
Point is he should have learned how to do it with one hand by now. He's been performing the technique for over 4 years and his chakra control is great now.
I don't really have the energy - we are not going to agree. It is the last few chapters, Sasuke has shown any sort of level-headedness for the first time. Before all of this he was just an emotional character fuelled by the need for revenge and hatred. And when he could not hate Itachi anymore, he aimed his hatred at the leaf. That is his character. Don't try and convince me otherwise with some winning mentality "drivel" :teehee
As I said before, I don't think he is an a-hole. I just feel in the state he was in, he lost all touch with the world around him. The revenge bubble surrounded him.
I still don't think he has demonstrated any strong will at all!
