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Lame chapter until the end. Kishi has been wasting panels left and right for the past month. Every conversation that Obito has with anyone is a fucking waste in my opinion, he never really says...

Lame chapter. I can't believe we waited 2 weeks for that crap. Obito and Kakashi has to be the most annoying fight I've seen in a while. \

We've had 2 chapters in the past month and they both...

It really does suck that we'll probably never get to see prime Hiruzen. I mean, the guy held the title of Kage for like his entire adult life. He must have been one hell of a bad mofo to survive that...

It would be lame as hell if Hiruzen is only running at 50 or 75 percent. What's the point of Kishi bringing him back? Poor guy has been getting screwed ever since he died. He went from being the "God...

Came here to post this, glad it was already done. That whole "Tobirama hates the Uchiha" talk was quite ridiculous.

Speaking of Toriyama, anyone know what's up with that new DBZ movie? Anyone wanna direct me to some information about it?

That's basically what's happening... everyone else there is basically filler.

Yeah, I agree, the story basically dictates that Hashirama stays put, just like the rest of the Kages. I disagree with...

So the question is going to be: Does Sasuke keep in line with the pride that produced Madara's insanity or does he actually try to go a different route? He looks unamused so I'm thinking he's still...

I think Izuna and Tajima have a lot more to do with Madara going insane and shitting the bed than Tobirama. If only his brother and father weren't complete assholes, if only Madara wasn't such...

He doesn't have to prove anything.

It's right there for you to read.

They were outclassed, period.

No matter what your personal opinion is, no matter what you wish, the fact is that the...

I don't understand how you can make that assumption. No where in the manga has it stated that the Uchiha outclassed the Senju, at anytime in the history of the Narutoverse. Everything you're saying...

Once again, it's your opinion. The author stating that the Senju clan outclassed the Uchiha isn't though, it is fact. Like I said before, maybe one day Kishi will give a clearer time frame, but as...

Yeah, that whole debate basically died today. Regardless of opinion, Kishi wrote it out.

I was personally looking forward to seeing a little more of Tobirama and Izuna's fight. All they showed was...

That is opinion.

According to the manga, all I know is that for all intents and purposes, the Uchiha clan was "outclassed" by the Senju clan. Maybe one day Kishi will give a better time frame as...

Yeah, really. It's there for you, in black and white.

"It was painfully obvious that the Uchiha were outclassed during our clashes."

Your opinion and wishful thinking may be one thing, but you...

Kid soldiers are crazy dude...

VVVVVVVV real life pic of Madara and Izuna VVVVVVVV

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/19/19302/16x9/790.hq.jpg

Screw the sharingan, I got a rifle! :cheez

LOL

We literally saw Uchihas get scared shitless and surrender in the presence of Senjus. They were never equal and they were never superior. You're being intellectually dishonest.

Kishi...

That had me actually laughing in real life.

So when someone surrenders, do we call it pulling an Uchiha from now on? lol

I just thought about it...

So after Hashirama outclasses Madara again, he probably leaves his corpse dying and decides to die alongside his friend while also fulfilling Madara's wish of him...

Well everyone can shut up about the Uchihas being on par with the Senju now. lol Can't wait to read some of the excuses made today...

And I don't know how anyone can hate on the Senju clan...

So everyone knew each other except Hashirama and Madara? lolwut?

This flashback(within a flashback!) is too long already, I hope Kishi finishes it up next chapter.

This chapter makes me wonder...

It took three kages to bring ET Madara to resort to the rinnegan. As Kabuto said, ET Madara is an enhanced version of his original self.

Muu was killed by the second Mizukage(who also died) and I...

Madara basically walks around telling everyone that will listen that Hashirama was the only ninja he respected/better than him/blah blah man crush... ever! lol I'm guessing that means he always lost...

The evidence is that he fought an Uchiha and was standing still in front of him and still didn't get put under a genjutsu. That simple.

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The evidence is that they didn't even attempt genjutsu on either Hashirama or Minato. If someone had a technique that could win them a fight and they didn't use it, then it would only be because they...

Shit... can't you not just make sense and move on?

I was just asking man, no need to get all pissy.

---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------
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Did it say they all had full control? I remember that part but don't remember if it specifically said that they all had the same level of control.

Good question. He was probably too young to develop a working relationship with his beast. That could at least explain why him being a host didn't help. As for being Kazekage, wasn't it said that he...

I'll try to make this as simple as possible for you: If genjutsu is so great then why wasn't it used against Hashirama or Minato? Just answer that. Is it because the Uchihas fighting them are idiots?...

Which is why genjutsu was used against Minato right? :facepalm

Oh, that's right, the manga supports my argument and not yours. I guess that infuriates you. :eyeroll

That still doesn't make...

Well at least you're finally admitting that you can't form a logical argument for genjutsu being the super jutsu some people on here believe it is. :hee

Now, can we stop pretending that genjutsu...

If you can't form a logical argument for why something does or doesn't happen in literature, you can't just blame the author/plot. That's a cop-out, tbh.

Oh, and God's hand? Haven't heard of that....

I'd rather Madara develop his hatred for Hashirama because his parents died at the hands on the Senju than because him and Hashirama both loved the same girl...

That might make me vomit a little,...

^ Blaming the author/plot is proof that the argument for genjutsu working on most kage level nins is flawed, tbh.

Instead of blaming the author/plot, why don't you come to the realization that...

So what you're trying to say is that you don't have a reason and that you have to fall back onto blaming the plot/author? Yeah, thought so.

And that's why the argument for genjutsu being a really...

I really hope Kishi shows us just exactly how Hashirama's jutsu fights... lol

I want to see a thousand hands bitch-slapping Madara's susano.

It'd be cool to see who their fathers are too.

That would be really interesting. It continues Kishi's trend of completely ruining his best villains. lol

Here's a short list of villains Kishi ruined for me:
Insane Itachi
Creepy Orochimaru...

I'll be more direct and logical with you: If it was an endgame attack then why wasn't it used against Minato or Hashirama?

I'm thinking you meant to say overestimated by most, and underestimated by some. :mono

Or maybe Kishi is showing us that genjutsus aren't the one shot techniques many people on here think they are.

Exactly my point. If they're so effective against kage level nins then why didn't Obito use genjutsu against Minato and why didn't Madara use it against Hashirama? Or hell, why didn't Madara just put...

I guess you all could be right. Genjutsu simply doesn't work on most kage level nins. I mean, the only kage level nin we've seen that's been effectively genjutu'd is Oro. Oh, and the Mizukage. But...

I'd like a better reason than that...

Kishi should at least attempt to explain why Obito didn't try using genjutsu against Minato and why Madara didn't use genjutsu against Hashirama. Are they...

Why didn't Madara use genjutsu against Hashirama? Madara should be a genjutsu beast since he's basically hailed as the strongest Uchiha ever; but, I never hear anyone say that Madara would win a...

What is this...

I don't even...

So this whole story started because Uchihas are sore losers? lol Great.

Am I the only one that wants Oro to do the same bs Kabutomaru did to Madara to Hiruzen? I want young Hiruzen tearing bitches up goddammit. He gets no respect anymore... lol

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I bet when Hashirama was 15 he would have gone on any mission asked of him no matter how ridiculous he thought it was... which is exactly what Naruto did.

edit- And yeah, I still don't like the...

It's going to be interesting if Naruto gets to meet his dad again. Since the "Minato" Naruto met was only chakra, this one would be completely clueless as to how Naruto's grown up and would have to...

Because a few years ago Kishi secretly renamed this manga to "Uchiha." :derp