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Thread: Naruto Names and Meanings

  1. #136
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    No one is "choosing" to disrespect anyone, at least in my opinion.

    The way we order our names in, say, the United States is different, obviously. And so we're used to saying "first(given) name" then "last(family) name".

    Also, I'm pretty sure the official English manga does it that way, too. But not out of disrespect. Think about all of the children who'd read the manga and might think "Uzumaki" is Naruto's given (first) name.

    I do know that some of the names are puns when they're read in the Japanese order, though. So...I suppose something is....lost in (sort of) translation.

    Personally, I think what's more disrespectful is calling him "Kishi".

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  3. #137
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    This is a forum and people use abbreviations, so no disrespect in that either...I think...I would certainly call Kishi, Kishimoto-san, if not -sama/-sensei...but on second thought...I don't think I would go that far, though...in real life i mean

  4. #138
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    Surnames and Given names are given in the order in which a society gives importance.

    In a society where the individual is valued more the given name is first. In a society where family overrides the individual the surname is given first.

    Personally I'd only think it's disrespectful if you address the actual person the wrong way, not simply talking about them on a forum. And considering they are all fictional characters I fail to see how you could actually disrespect them.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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  6. #139
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    By that same logic, it would be insulting that we're translating the language of the manga into English to begin with. It's a simple matter of language structure. Keep in mind that many Japanese themselves order their names as [Given name] [Surname] even in Japan if they plan to work internationally, i.e. Ichiro Suzuki of the Seattle Mariners.

    I have only ever seen importance given to being sure someone knows which name is the given name, and which the surname. Translating to the appropriate language structure can aid in that.
    Last edited by Ryokahn; June 25, 2010 at 03:46 PM.

  7. #140
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    i think Order name is important. Its should follow orginal country not mine or another country. you read books or manga, how'd you know which Given/Sur name is if it has changed order?
    Not only Naruto but also many manga, many translators changed order. I'm not blaming them but it will be difficult to tell them apart
    Japanese=Raw => Chinese => Portuguese => Spanish =>....=>English
    So many changes, we dont know exactly it's right or wrong.

  8. #141
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryokahn View Post
    By that same logic, it would be insulting that we're translating the language of the manga into English to begin with. It's a simple matter of language structure. Keep in mind that many Japanese themselves order their names as [Given name] [Surname] even in Japan if they plan to work internationally, i.e. Ichiro Suzuki of the Seattle Mariners.

    I have only ever seen importance given to being sure someone knows which name is the given name, and which the surname. Translating to the appropriate language structure can aid in that.
    By Japanese working internationally you mean Japanese who go to work in Anglo-saxon dominant regions, and specifically for your case I'm assuming the United States. This I can't say.

    Aside from abovesaid regions, giving you the benefit of the doubt, no it doesn't apply elsewhere.

    I can say for sure that Japanese working in many other regions do keep their Surname>Given name order.


    Quote Originally Posted by kazekaze_yuki View Post
    i think Order name is important. Its should follow orginal country not mine or another country. you read books or manga, how'd you know which Given/Sur name is if it has changed order?
    Not only Naruto but also many manga, many translators changed order. I'm not blaming them but it will be difficult to tell them apart
    Japanese=Raw => Chinese => Portuguese => Spanish =>....=>English
    So many changes, we dont know exactly it's right or wrong.
    Yes, that's my point precisely.

    It wouldn't take but 5 seconds for a, say US, guy to learn the order of Surname and Given names in Japanese culture when introducing the mangas. Yet instead of introducing this culture they choose to modify it against the mangaka's wishes.

    Is this suggesting the people in the above example (US) can't learn/accept the Japanese culture, that this 5 second avoidance is necessary?

    I hardly think so, to be honest, but again I wouldn't know this for sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Surnames and Given names are given in the order in which a society gives importance.

    In a society where the individual is valued more the given name is first. In a society where family overrides the individual the surname is given first.

    Personally I'd only think it's disrespectful if you address the actual person the wrong way, not simply talking about them on a forum. And considering they are all fictional characters I fail to see how you could actually disrespect them.
    Have you ever seen any other culture, say Japanese, addressing these famous singers as Jackson Michael or Presley Elvis?

    I'm not here to debate name ordering and its reflection or impact on individualism. I'm debating the difference in how different groups of people use names from others' cultures.
    Last edited by hyper_megaman; June 25, 2010 at 09:21 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  9. #142
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Isogi's Avatar
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    If you're going to talk about being rude to the culture of the manga, the name order is just a symptom of a deeper problem, the language. What you read in English is not necessarily how the mangaka intended it to be read, so the substance matter has already been altered just by sheer language transition. If you're going to translate it into another language, you either need to adapt to the language being translated into, or make plenty of footnotes to note what is lost in translation as you attempt to stay as close as possible.

  10. #143
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Isogi View Post
    If you're going to talk about being rude to the culture of the manga, the name order is just a symptom of a deeper problem, the language. What you read in English is not necessarily how the mangaka intended it to be read, so the substance matter has already been altered just by sheer language transition. If you're going to translate it into another language, you either need to adapt to the language being translated into, or make plenty of footnotes to note what is lost in translation as you attempt to stay as close as possible.
    I do agree with this.

    Very good point, actually, which is why for certain mangas (like Dragonball and its heavy usage of chi-related phrases) I prefer reading chinese translations instead of english. Some things just don't translate as well when your language difference is too large.

  11. #144
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    Its not intentional 'disrespect'. Those who use the altered order of name may actually be very respectful persons when it comes to other cultures. And there can be a lot of disrespectful people who use the correct order. However sticking to the original would've been better.

  12. #145
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shaheer's Avatar
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    lol whats so disrespecting calling some virtual character in a comic by its name this way or that way..as long as the message is clear its enough...

  13. #146
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Hojinmaru's Avatar
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    WOW, what people will talk about when there is no chapter release for a week, hahaha. This sounds more like trolling then anything else but here's my two cents…

    Has "Kishi" even said publicly that he's insulted with the way the manga is being translated in other countries? I bet he's just happy people are enjoying his work and he's getting paid. But, I can appreciate where the original poster is coming from and it would be nice if things that didn't need to be change, weren't. Such as name order JUST for the sake of making it easier for western readers to associate with. At the same time, you might cut off a large portion of your potential audience who may not want to necessarily have to learn a new way of thinking just to read a manga.

    What I do find offensive is when they change the content to suit the culture. It's happened in more then one manga, DBZ is a good example, and their are many more. There is no need, simply put a parental warning label and make the individual consumer responsible for their choices.

  14. #147
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    Does the japanese culture put a lot of emphasis on how they order their names? Would they be insulted if someone said it out of order? Basically what I'm asking is, does is matter?
    Inconsistency is sometimes my middle name... just sayin'

  15. #148
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Bowser's Avatar
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    Just translation I guess. I didn't really know the names of Naruto chars until I got to the middle middle bit, going through naruto-wiki to learn some of their names. For eg. I didn't know Shikamarus name was Nara Shikamaru.

    Nothing disrespectful, it's just the way you want to call it. Ofc some will know it's Uzumaki Naruto, but seriously, it's easier calling it Naruto.

    I think they place emphasis depending on how well you know them. Bleach - Byakuya: "Is he (Ichigo) going to call me by my first name now...?" etc etc. "Toushiro!" "It's Hitsugaya taichou for you!"

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Isogi's Avatar
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Hojinmaru View Post
    What I do find offensive is when they change the content to suit the culture. It's happened in more then one manga, DBZ is a good example, and their are many more. There is no need, simply put a parental warning label and make the individual consumer responsible for their choices.
    It may not be outright censorship or something as strange as turning onigiri into donuts, but some of the stuff I've read online has a good infusion of the translator's own culture imbued in the translation. It helps make it sound right to the people reading it.

  17. #150
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Order of Surnames and Given Names

    I don't think the order should matter. Obviously in Japan, it's surname first, then given name. But in America, it's given name first, then surname. America and many other countries are used to the mentioned order, so the editors keep it as surname first and given name last, then it'll be confusing for other readers. Many readers will wonder why characters have similar first name and how they're related when the last names are different when in reality, they're understanding it the wrong way.

    Plus, many readers won't really switch to "surname-given name," so there's no point in keeping that order when "given name-surname" is simpler. I don't think there's anything wrong with editing the order of the names or anything. What matters is the work being enjoyed by readers, and it will be if they understand it.

    It's confusing enough for new readers to read from right to left. I think by making the order of the name suited to the majority of citizens, it makes it easier for new readers and less daunting.
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