Zangetsu's Power/ability

[poopoomaru]

I wrote this in another thread (spoiler section for 271) but thought the theory could stand alone and used for discussion

Well I know it isnt stated exactly in the manga, but I believe that Zangetsu's power is high velocity propulsation. Ichigo states that Getsuga is when Zangetsu takes his own spiritual energy and releases at a high velocity in a more concentrated form that energy which is the attack. Now I have thought about it and the only way that his bankai would make sense if it is simply a more powerfull form of the original concept of the sword (which is what all Bankai are, a much more powerful and controled form of the original shikai power and form.), now the only way it makes sense that, if Zangetsu's only shikai power is to shoot out Ichigo's spirit energy concentrated and at high velocity, that his bankai works by concentrating his own reiatsu and spirit parictles and propelling them at high velocities, which is why he gains incredible speed. Getsuga Tenshou is stronger then a shikai getsuga because naturally with more reiatsu from zangetsu , and with zangetsu's overall ability to fire off reiatsu increased, the getsuga would be more stronger.


The fact that he is moving at high speeds though does not mean he becomes physically any stronger, I.E. able to swing his sword any harder. Grimmjaw after blocking Ichigo's initial shikai attack , and then his bankai attacks, that the only thing his bankai gave him was speed. Speed and increased spiritual pressure/concentration is all he gains from bankai.

Bankai's dont all necassarily increase in sheer overall ability and power. They are just a much more powerful version of the initial concept. Byakuya's shikai is to turn his sword into many tiny blades that he controls, his bankai is great many hundreds of times more tiny blades, the rest his is own personal doing as with concentrating those blades.

[naru_naru]

the theory carries alot of weight and answers a lot of questions, especially as to why ichigos bankai is so different from other shinigamis.

i got a theory also thought i'd put mine in cos its different from urs

if we look at other shinigami bankais ichigo's bankai isnt anything like it, it even confuses Byakuya. other shinigami bankais seem to change the zanpaktou (i.e: make its attacking power and/or attacking speed increase) however it dosnt actually change the user (make him faster or stronger).

ichigos bankai seems to enhance his fighting ability; i.e.: making ichigos attacks stronger, faster; the zanpaktou itself just remains a simple katana and ichigo remains the same physically (he dosnt change physically). also unlike all shinigami ichigo dosnt actually have a shikai. yes at the beginning, when ichigo got zangetsu he called the zanpaktou to release the shikai (that was a cool chapter), however it has remained in the same state ever since. this might be due to ichigo not fully knowing everything about his zanpaktou, but his zanpaktou does go from bankai from to shikai form.

the arrancer all seem to have similar bankais; in the released form of the blade increases the users fighting ability in the form of physically modifying the user. this might be different for the espada but so far this seems to be the trend.

so far we havnt seen any vizards release yet but imho i believe that vizards release their zanpaktou similar to the way ichigo does.

so far it seems ichigos zanpaktou release states are inbetween arrancer and shinigami. ichigos fighting ability is directly increased like the arrancer, but he is not physically changed and does not gain any traits. and ichigo still retains his zanpaktou (still has a weapon separate from his body) and the attacking ability is increased like shinigamis but unlike the shinigami he is directly affected by the bankai, i.e: his speed is increased.

tbh u could make them both into one theory about why ichigos released form is different from both arrancer and shinigami released form.

[poopoomaru]

the theory carries alot of weight and answers a lot of questions, especially as to why ichigos bankai is so different from other shinigamis.

i got a theory also thought i'd put mine in cos its different from urs

if we look at other shinigami bankais ichigo's bankai isnt anything like it, it even confuses Byakuya. other shinigami bankais seem to change the zanpaktou (i.e: make its attacking power and/or attacking speed increase) however it dosnt actually change the user (make him faster or stronger).

ichigos bankai seems to enhance his fighting ability; i.e.: making ichigos attacks stronger, faster; the zanpaktou itself just remains a simple katana and ichigo remains the same physically (he dosnt change physically). also unlike all shinigami ichigo dosnt actually have a shikai. yes at the beginning, when ichigo got zangetsu he called the zanpaktou to release the shikai (that was a cool chapter), however it has remained in the same state ever since. this might be due to ichigo not fully knowing everything about his zanpaktou, but his zanpaktou does go from bankai from to shikai form.

the arrancer all seem to have similar bankais; in the released form of the blade increases the users fighting ability in the form of physically modifying the user. this might be different for the espada but so far this seems to be the trend.

so far we havnt seen any vizards release yet but imho i believe that vizards release their zanpaktou similar to the way ichigo does.

so far it seems ichigos zanpaktou release states are inbetween arrancer and shinigami. ichigos fighting ability is directly increased like the arrancer, but he is not physically changed and does not gain any traits. and ichigo still retains his zanpaktou (still has a weapon separate from his body) and the attacking ability is increased like shinigamis but unlike the shinigami he is directly affected by the bankai, i.e: his speed is increased.

tbh u could make them both into one theory about why ichigos released form is different from both arrancer and shinigami released form.

Thats true and thats something I really thought about too, the fact stands that Ichigo is the only one who, as far as we know, gained both shinigami and hollow powers at the exact same time. He may have had shinigami powers before, but he gained HIS powers the same moment he was becoming a hollow, and his familiarity with being a shinigami is what made that side so dominant in the beginning.

So to reference to what you were saying it is a possibility that because they happened at the same time, Ichigo's hollow and shinigami powers could have bled into each other, as we can see since Hollow ichigo fades back into Zangetsu's body.

That is could be why his bankai alters and enhances his own body instead of making an exterior weapon to use like other's bankai, much in a hollow fashion, this could also be why as we can see when Ichigo is going hollow in the basement of the vizard building, the hollow form looks so human.



You are right, it very well could be either yours or my theory which are correct, or possibly a combination of the two. Very interesting lol.

[naru_naru]

Thats true and thats something I really thought about too, the fact stands that Ichigo is the only one who, as far as we know, gained both shinigami and hollow powers at the exact same time. He may have had shinigami powers before, but he gained HIS powers the same moment he was becoming a hollow, and his familiarity with being a shinigami is what made that side so dominant in the beginning.

So to reference to what you were saying it is a possibility that because they happened at the same time, Ichigo's hollow and shinigami powers could have bled into each other, as we can see since Hollow ichigo fades back into Zangetsu's body.

That is could be why his bankai alters and enhances his own body instead of making an exterior weapon to use like other's bankai, much in a hollow fashion, this could also be why as we can see when Ichigo is going hollow in the basement of the vizard building, the hollow form looks so human.



You are right, it very well could be either yours or my theory which are correct, or possibly a combination of the two. Very interesting lol.

we need some vizards going bankai

[Decorus]

Ichigo's Bankei is still incomplete it does nothing but raise his speed. This means Ichigo does not gain any more Reiatsu or Attack power. Byakuya believes its one of the strongest Combat Bankei's because of the ultra high speed it allows him to attain in its compressed state. (Yes Ichigo managed to compress down the size of his Bankei which no other captain has ever done).

Ichigo's combat skills came from his Bankei training, but he probably needs Zangetsu to teach him some more tricks and soon.

[mars0103]

i think that zangetus ability is a type of cero's But rereading the manga and anime i think zangetus is not in its true form. I think that the white zangetus and the black zangetus are a pair this means that zangetus will be the third twin zanpacto ever. New form new abilitys

want you think

the cat stated that his zanpacto can onlys go in to shi kai because of his spirt energy. This fits into my limter theroy.

and bai kai's do increase phyical strengh because of 3rd seat of th 11th squards increses his shrengh

[Ripht]

i believe that he hasn't reached bankai yet. He started off with that huge sword which wasn't his because he was given rukia's powers. Then while training with uruahara he unlocked his own powers and got his own sword, it then stayed in this form and didn't power down. Which suggests to me that this is his non released form. Then in soul society he managed to unlock a release which he called bankai, i believe this is wrongly named and actually this is only his part released form. Also after just watching the lastest episode of bleach i picked up on something that one of the charaters said while fighting ichigo, he said something like " i should have reliased you can't even use bankai" i don't remember that text being in the manga at all. Interesting

[Warden]

There is a difference betweem "having" and "using". He has a Bankai, but he is not using it properly, and cannot reach its full potential.

And the stuff with Byakua and Kariya in the latest episode was frankly filler content.

[Richo]

i believe that he hasn't reached bankai yet. He started off with that huge sword which wasn't his because he was given rukia's powers. Then while training with uruahara he unlocked his own powers and got his own sword, it then stayed in this form and didn't power down. Which suggests to me that this is his non released form. Then in soul society he managed to unlock a release which he called bankai, i believe this is wrongly named and actually this is only his part released form. Also after just watching the lastest episode of bleach i picked up on something that one of the charaters said while fighting ichigo, he said something like " i should have reliased you can't even use bankai" i don't remember that text being in the manga at all. Interesting

this whole post is nothing more then noncense...
the big ass sword was his normal zanpaktou (different from normal shinigami yes) as he could not control his reiatsu back then, he released a shikai with urahara and could not seal it back again to its usual form as ichigo still can controll his reiatsu as he simply has to much of it same goes for zaraki he has so much he cant even seal it into a shikai form. and about the bankai part yourichi and zangetsu himself did say he has bankai and his hollow part did say ichigo still cant control his bankai yet (as with the first time using it he cracked about all his bones cause his body could not yet controll the incredible speed)...
the only thing his hollow part is trying to do is crush ichigo his confidence (and also resolve witch are not hard to crush), and then he tries to take over his body or catch ichigo off gaurd....

[naru_naru]

zangetsu is a zanpaktou that is always in a released state i.e: his shikai; why that is has not been explained. ichigo did achieve his bankai as he has to say bankai to release it. zangetsu says what the conditions were for obtaining bankai. yourochi (sp) mentions ichigos reiatsu isnt increasing to add hype to the whole getting bankai arc. noone has doubted or hinted that ichigos bankai is not actually bankai, therefore we must accept that ichigos bankai is indeed a bankai.

achieving and mastering bankai is completely different. mastering a bankai provides various new techniques we have seen some possibilities of ichigos bankai from the times when hollow-ichigo uses the bankai. to master a bankai takes atleast 10 years.

[mars0103]

zangetsu is a zanpaktou that is always in a released state i.e: his shikai; why that is has not been explained. ichigo did achieve his bankai as he has to say bankai to release it. zangetsu says what the conditions were for obtaining bankai. yourochi (sp) mentions ichigos reiatsu isnt increasing to add hype to the whole getting bankai arc. noone has doubted or hinted that ichigos bankai is not actually bankai, therefore we must accept that ichigos bankai is indeed a bankai.

achieving and mastering bankai is completely different. mastering a bankai provides various new techniques we have seen some possibilities of ichigos bankai from the times when hollow-ichigo uses the bankai. to master a bankai takes atleast 10 years.

I see where youare coming from because soi fon didn't prefect a shi kai move until after yourchi went from ss. Same things can be said about ban kai's

[Omi]

What do we know of Zangetsu Shikai:

he is a zanpaktou without a hilt or guard i.e. not defensive capabilities
he has the capability of preventing injuries from taking hold for a while ... re Zaraki fight.
he can increase Ichigo's reiatsu when they fight as one ... Zaraki fight again
he has the capability of release of slicing beam of energy .... getsuga
he has a long cloth like attachment which hollow Ichigo tends to use to spin it like a helicopter blade + wraps around Ichigo's arm when he does bankai

Bankai:

he changes Ichigo's clothes
he gains a hilt and guard
he loses the cloth extension for a short chain
Ichigo gains uber speed
Ichigo gains getsuga tenshou which carries way more reiatsu than normal getsuga.
Ichigo's reiatsu appears to turn black

---------------------------
Hollow Ichigo told Ichigo that Zangetsu gets stronger has he gets stronger. It looks like Ichigo has stopped growing his Shinigami powers cause he does look weaker than he was when he fought Zaraki or Byakuya.

[Valen123456]

Ichigo has been having his arse handed to him a lot lately it is true ... its probable that this was because his hollow side was getting stronger and conflicting with him even when it wasnt taking over physically (like metal near a compass the hollow took over when it got right up close but even from far away it was causing some problems), he seemed pretty in control during his fight with Dordonii, the reason hes been fryed by Grimmjow and Uliqorria (after getting his mask) is due to there power being more or less equal to his or he burns himself out (remeber the difference between a powerful shinigami and menos, a shinigami has no resources save himself while a menos is an amalgomation of hundreds of other hollows compressed together).

Back on topic though, Zangetsus powers have been more or less defined, he is a channel for spirit power and unleashes large cutting blasts. The future i see is different shapes and effeciencies rather than raw power (ichigos got that already), if say that big black tenshou he hit Uliquiorra with had been a compress ball instead of a huge wave then No4 wouldnt have stabbed ichigo in the chest because he wouldnt have had any hands.

I like the idea of a double sword though ... would be something to see ... however i don t think we are going to see ichigo in the next chapter cos things are a getting a bit too hot with Grantz Ishida and Renji at the moment

[Richo]

Back on topic though, Zangetsus powers have been more or less defined, he is a channel for spirit power and unleashes large cutting blasts. The future i see is different shapes and effeciencies rather than raw power (ichigos got that already), if say that big black tenshou he hit Uliquiorra with had been a compress ball instead of a huge wave then No4 wouldnt have stabbed ichigo in the chest because he wouldnt have had any hands.

I like the idea of a double sword though ... would be something to see ... however i don t think we are going to see ichigo in the next chapter cos things are a getting a bit too hot with Grantz Ishida and Renji at the moment

the thing with double sword is that there are only 2 shinigami in the possesion of a pair of such dual swords and also the fighting style is designed for it as they always had those twin swords...
and getsuga would not be as effective as a ball form as getsuga isnt called moon slice heaven for nothing its a wave that pierces anything witch has less reiatsu around (like ichigo trying to cut zaraki the first time and he could not cause the pressure of reiatsu covering zaraki was greater then ichigo his power). the ball idea will come up soon with the name Cero so ichigo will have getsuga and cero.
anyway the nxt few chapters will be about renji and ishida and probably orinihime and last ichigo...

[Decorus]

Zangetsu isn't the only one sided Bankei created. Ikkaku's only increases his attack power and nothing else.

We do know that Ichigo has yet to gain the full power of his Hollow self.

"If you really intend to have control over my power... Then until I decide to appear the next time do your best not to die"

We do know that Zangetsu can create multiple copies of his spirit form and Ichigo's hollow self can crush Soul Slayers like they are nothing if he gets his hands on them.