Berserk General Discussion Thread

[xi0]

I might be wrong, but I think the point from the Fantasia episode was to show that along with other mythical creatures the godhand are also in the "new world."

I don't remember there ever being a character or narration saying to what extent of the astral plane was merged. We don't know if it encompasses the vortex of souls or even all the way to the IoE. But again, we only see the godhand there at the end of the episode.

Well no, not specifics were mentioned yet you're right. But knowing that mystical creatures exist in the Interstice (Flora's Mansion and surroundings) and we know that the Godhand exist in the Vortex and appear in the Nexus during the Eclipse it's not farfetched to assume that they don't exist on the same plane as everyday life does. There would be two different versions of Griffith then, Reborn and Femto. We know that isn't the case because Griffith was the one who caused this merging and went back to his Human body after the planes merged.

[GioGio]

I always thought the Godhand exist in the Vortex, while what was merged was just the Physical and Interstitial worlds.

http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/universe/

The way I understood it, the Physical/Mortal and the Astral/Nexus worlds are now one and the same. Griffith simply destroyed the barrier between both worlds, allowing not only the legendary creatures of the outermost layer to coexist with the mortals, but also the God Hand (as shown during the World Transformation), and they exist in the innermost layer of the Nexus nonetheless. Otherwise, that scene with each member of the God Hand manifesting itself in the physical world would be meaningless, isn't it?

So, if that's correct, it would also means that the Abyss and the human world are now separated only by one barrier, which may make it possible for Griffith to access the Ideal World and change the very nature of mankind itself, creating a new god in place of the Idea of Evil (and I think we'll definitely see something like the "Idea of Good" in Plato's Republic).

There would be two different versions of Griffith then, Reborn and Femto. We know that isn't the case because Griffith was the one who caused this merging and went back to his Human body after the planes merged.

But this new Griffith is simply Femto in the Moonlight Child's body, there's essentially no distinction between Griffith and Femto for two different versions of him to exist at the same time.

[FetherMan]

I wonder, what Griffith's main goal is now that he has an established kingdom of his own. besides, world domination obviously.

[xi0]

The way I understood it, the Physical/Mortal and the Astral/Nexus worlds are now one and the same. Griffith simply destroyed the barrier between both worlds, allowing not only the legendary creatures of the outermost layer to coexist with the mortals, but also the God Hand (as shown during the World Transformation), and they exist in the innermost layer of the Nexus nonetheless. Otherwise, that scene with each member of the God Hand manifesting itself in the physical world would be meaningless, isn't it?

So, if that's correct, it would also means that the Abyss and the human world are now separated only by one barrier, which may make it possible for Griffith to access the Ideal World and change the very nature of mankind itself, creating a new god in place of the Idea of Evil (and I think we'll definitely see something like the "Idea of Good" in Plato's Republic).

The evidence of the Godhand manifesting itself in the Real World isn't new though, since Conrad was seen manifested from rats in the plague-infested town, and Slan manifested herself from Troll guts in the Qliphoth. That all happened before the World Transformation. The reason Griffith became Femto before Skull Knight caused it was because he exists in two bodies.

So this could suggest that the Astral and Mortal worlds have merged, but we still haven't seen the Godhand in this new plane of existence like we've seen during the Eclipse or Incarnation Ceremony.

I guess they could take corporeal form now, but just haven't seen it yet...don't know.

[Aazholh]

The way I understood it, the Physical/Mortal and the Astral/Nexus worlds are now one and the same. Griffith simply destroyed the barrier between both worlds, allowing not only the legendary creatures of the outermost layer to coexist with the mortals, but also the God Hand (as shown during the World Transformation), and they exist in the innermost layer of the Nexus nonetheless. Otherwise, that scene with each member of the God Hand manifesting itself in the physical world would be meaningless, isn't it?

So, if that's correct, it would also means that the Abyss and the human world are now separated only by one barrier, which may make it possible for Griffith to access the Ideal World and change the very nature of mankind itself, creating a new god in place of the Idea of Evil (and I think we'll definitely see something like the "Idea of Good" in Plato's Republic).

Although I believe that the godhand now exist exclusively within the new world, I'm still on the fence whether the merging as gone all the way to the Ideal World.

If so, yeah Griffith might have an ulterior motive to circumvent his master. That would be quite awesome. Might be the only way to destroy the IoE, if that is what Miura is planning on doing.

Based on that SK.net interview, he wasn't even sure if the IoE would make a reappearance. But if I were a master storyteller, I wouldn't divulge a major spoiler like that.

[xi0]

Although I believe that the godhand now exist exclusively within the new world, I'm still on the fence whether the merging as gone all the way to the Ideal World.

If so, yeah Griffith might have an ulterior motive to circumvent his master. That would be quite awesome. Might be the only way to destroy the IoE, if that is what Miura is planning on doing.

Based on that SK.net interview, he wasn't even sure if the IoE would make a reappearance. But if I were a master storyteller, I wouldn't divulge a major spoiler like that.

Well he also wouldn't have removed Chapter 83 from v13 if it was something insignificant. I think he said he had it removed because he thought it revealed too much about the machinations of the world.

[Aazholh]

Yeah, I think the IoE told Griffith he could do as he wished. I would like to know what Griffith was thinking when he learned that his creation and everything he had done was according to causality. That his very ambition wasn't even his, but the will of the IoE. I wonder if he would use this opportunity, not to redeem himself, but to try to undo the IoE's control of the world?

[xi0]

Yeah, I think the IoE told Griffith he could do as he wished. I would like to know what Griffith was thinking when he learned that his creation and everything he had done was according to causality. That his very ambition wasn't even his, but the will of the IoE. I wonder if he would use this opportunity, not to redeem himself, but to try to undo the IoE's control of the world?

That's a really heady thing. I think it's too early to tell, considering how even more ambiguous Griffith has been since being reincarnated. We don't know anything about his motives, other than personal ones that he had before he used the Crimson Behelit.

[Aazholh]

You're right, of course. When Griffith became Femto, I think his ability to feel guilt or love another person was thrown out the window. So his intentions are self-motivated to benefit him. But his desire to have a kingdom and everyone to be equal doesn't compare to the power that he already has. So it's conceivable he's up to something else. Although now that he shares the same body as Guts' son will probably complicate his plans.

[xi0]

Yeah, he knew what he was doing when he took Casca. He had to have known this was a possibility.

The real question is what is the Moonlight Child's true nature.

[GioGio]

Yeah, I think the IoE told Griffith he could do as he wished. I would like to know what Griffith was thinking when he learned that his creation and everything he had done was according to causality. That his very ambition wasn't even his, but the will of the IoE. I wonder if he would use this opportunity, not to redeem himself, but to try to undo the IoE's control of the world?

Since the IoE is basically the heart of mankind and rules over the events in the human world, it's hard to imagine Griffith destroying it. Maybe changing the way it works into something else (I don't know, instead of pumping evil as a reason for existence, pumping love and chocolate, for example) or even putting another thing in it's place as the heart of the world (Griffith and Guts merged souls at the unlikely end of Beserk would be awesome ). Wouldn't that "redeem" the world and, thus, make it his own kingdom?

Either way, the IoE is too important to the universe of Berserk to be left aside, and Miura clearly has plans for it.

[xi0]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that he might tweak the thinking behind was what explained in 83 as well. Since it isn't considered canon due to it's exclusion, we probably shouldn't refer to it expecting it to be used at a later time.

[Aazholh]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that he might tweak the thinking behind was what explained in 83 as well. Since it isn't considered canon due to it's exclusion, we probably shouldn't refer to it expecting it to be used at a later time.

While it is true that ep. 83 was taken out, it can certainly be put back in at a later time. Miura said that showing a god character in Berserk limits what can be done. Later when asked if we would ever see the IoE again, he said that he didn't really know if it would come back. Which leads me to believe that the Berserk world is still dependent on this character.

But even without its inclusion into canon, the Idea is alluded to existing within the abyss. Two clues are the episode title "Shadow of Idea" and when Flora mentions that the godhand serve something deeper within the astral plane.

[GioGio]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that he might tweak the thinking behind was what explained in 83 as well. Since it isn't considered canon due to it's exclusion, we probably shouldn't refer to it expecting it to be used at a later time.

Well, yeah, he can always alter the meaning behind the IoE. No arguing with that. But didn't Miura take that chapter out because he thought it revealed too much about the story in the first place? I mean, if it happens that the IoE should be somehow excluded from the plot, it's not far-fetched to consider that he would, at the very least, have something else in it's place, be it only alluded to (the IoE as merely a concept) or literally there, as the manifested God of the Abyss.

[Aazholh]

I hope that the IoE does come back. Just seems like a waste for it to be referred to and never be seen again.