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Thread: Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

  1. #886
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

    No, the first settlements and even colonies were founded for the sake of religious freedom. Not necessarily the same kind of contribution, but yeah.

    I think Milly is thinking in terms of recent times.

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    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    Whatever the argument, it's as hard to prove god doesn't exist, as it is to prove god does exist. It's a circular debate, no matter what side you take. Reason and logic do not apply.
    I think one can argue that proving that the biblical god doesn't exist can be done though...it's funny how it's said that God created humans in his own image, when it's pretty much the other way around

    ---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperium View Post
    My main gripe with him beyond that is this seeming obsession with literalism being the only facet of religious belief, and that religious belief sans literalism is not religious belief at all. It's does a great disservice to theology. It ignores both the history and necessity of interpretation.

    But yea, god doesn't exist because there are fossils. /s
    I don't like Dawkins either, he is indeed an ass, but I always interpreted his problems with religion in this way: people use the literal facet of religion when it suits them, and they ignore it when it doesn't suit them...I think that's his main issue, and I think it's a relevant one, when he's trying to get his message out to the masses of people, whom by the way have little to no knowledge of theology, and they mix up spirituality with superstition, and their religious beliefs come from priests who have their own interpretation of what religious life means

    And if he's making money at the same time, then it's good for him I guess...

  3. #888
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by benelori View Post
    Perhaps in the US....but in Europe it has been the main driver of society's evolution for a long long time
    I know that, although it's been the main driver of society's devolution, to be honest. At least in America it has been.

    But I'm talking about overall contribution, and how Islam contributed as much as Christianity and Catholicism.
    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    No, the first settlements and even colonies were founded for the sake of religious freedom. Not necessarily the same kind of contribution, but yeah.

    I think Milly is thinking in terms of recent times.
    No, I'm talking about since hte dawn of religion. Or at least, the last 1400 years or something.

  4. #889
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I know that, although it's been the main driver of society's devolution, to be honest. At least in America it has been.

    But I'm talking about overall contribution, and how Islam contributed as much as Christianity and Catholicism.
    To talk about devolution, then you have to know a bit of European history, and I'm assuming you don't, since you thought Islam was the root for Chistianity...to be honest I have no idea about Islam's contributions to scientific discovery or law, but I know it contributed greatly to art for example...
    Quote Quote:
    No, I'm talking about since hte dawn of religion. Or at least, the last 1400 years or something.
    The dawn of institutionalized religion you mean...which I think it can be argued that it began in 325, in Nicaea....unless someone else has knowledge of earlier date(s)

    PS: you should look up Jesuits I think, and read about them a bit...they have been around in the last 1500 years, so within your timeframe, and they are specialized in education...
    Last edited by benelori; September 03, 2013 at 02:27 AM.

  5. #890
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

    From what I've read though, Europeans aren't assholes about science and religion like Americans are and have agreed that both can go hand in hand and cooperate. In America, it tends to be science vs. religion.

    Religion as whole though - from the start of belief in higher power. Which I assume began when ancestors long ago had no idea how things happened and made up stories of deities and spirits to explain, which created god, allah, and etc.

  6. #891
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Imperium's Avatar
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    Re: Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Interesting... few people have said otherwise. But Islam has contributed as much to the world as Christianity or Hinduism has.
    I am hesitant to ascribe religious characteristics to people, you don't hear Da vinci being described as a christian scientist nevertheless I think I will be doing that a bit, for simplicity.

    I think you may be conflating Christianity with modern Western Civilization. The first Islamic empires lied at the crossroads of the hindustan and byzantine civilizations while simultaneously amalgamating the persian civilization into its structure (post Umayyad caliphate). It benefited from a huge resource of intellectual thought, scripture and teachings which it then began to develop and progress even further. This intellectual legacy carried on and led to more modern developments especially during the middle ages when Europe was in intellectual demise. Many of the intellectual underpinnings of modern western civilization, i.e. Greek philosophy and sciences would later be translated from Arabic back into Latin (by men like Thomas Aquinas) and would be the seeds of the european renaissance. Most of what we know about philosophy and science would have been lost during the middle ages and our modern world would not have existed as we know it today.

    An example of this that you might be familiar with is Hindu-Arabic numerals. The basic number system. It was invented and developed in the subcontinent and those teachings were used by islamic mathematicians (like Al-kindi, Khwarzimi) and further developed. This work was then translated into Latin (by men like Fibonacci), afterwards the false assumption was made that the numeric system was originally arabic and began calling it arabic numerals even though the Arabs/Persians themselves did explicitly call it hindu. This is only recently being rectified.

    Quote Originally Posted by benelori View Post

    I don't like Dawkins either, he is indeed an ass, but I always interpreted his problems with religion in this way: people use the literal facet of religion when it suits them, and they ignore it when it doesn't suit them...I think that's his main issue, and I think it's a relevant one, when he's trying to get his message out to the masses of people, whom by the way have little to no knowledge of theology, and they mix up spirituality with superstition, and their religious beliefs come from priests who have their own interpretation of what religious life means

    And if he's making money at the same time, then it's good for him I guess...
    I understand but I still think it doesn't matter about those who pick and chose. That is the point of interpretation, you use your critical faculties to decide what is allegory or metaphorical and what is literal. And most of the picking and choosing has structured reasoning behind it. He simply fights against literalism (which is a worthy goal) and conflates that into fighting against all religious thought, which is silly imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by benelori View Post
    The dawn of institutionalized religion you mean...which I think it can be argued that it began in 325, in Nicaea....unless someone else has knowledge of earlier date(s)
    That would be the dawn of institutionalised christianity but not of institutionalised religion which stretches into the earliest times of recorded history. To give you some examples, the Zoroastrian church of ancient persia, the ancient egyptian and greek polytheistic religions, the ancient babylonian religions and the ancient sumerian religions. There were places of worship, governmental funding and all sorts of rituals that extended from these, and many of them have lasted longer than modern religions like Christianity and Islam (so far of course). The epic of Gilgamesh for example gives a great insight into very early religions.
    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
    ...i could pimp in bulgaria...my game tight like that

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