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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
I don't think Naruto or Bleach are going the path of DBZ (or dragonball whatever you prefer.). DBZ took the whole power up thing to ridiculous levels and never focused on techniques really if I recall.
The main thing in fighting mangas is that you can't have one type of fighting reign supreme. For example, you need some strength and speed to go along with that experience or else you wouldn't be able to touch your opponent or damage him.
With Naruto, the fights tend to be won by the one who is smarter. Though we haven't really had a full fight in part 2 asides from Sakura's and Chiyo's fight in the rescue Gaara ark in part two. In Naruto, things dont' focus on becoming faster so much as learning new techniques. They may help you get faster and stronger but they also add a new move in the character's repetoire.
With Bleach, it seems like it is becoming a bit like DBZ at the moment in terms of fighting with Ichigo focusing on getting more strength instead of mastering abilities he lacks. I never minded Ichigo getting high in power as he has that quickly but I just hope things don't keep following that route. I'd rather have him start mastering his basic skills after he masters his hollow mask before we see anymore powerups for him.
I agree with gigantor21 about One Piece though. It's powerups are pretty unique. I never have seen anything like the Gears before.
I think its hard for action oriented manga to come up with fresh ideas to incorporate since, it seems to me, that DBZ has done it all when it comes to the genre. Its hard for later generations not to take inspiration from it. Toriyama's DBZ was more of a door opener to what a great action manga could be much like the Simpsons was to shows like South Park and Family Guy.
I do agree that Bleach is somewhat turning into DBZ. I mean if you substitute reiatsu with ki and shikai and bankai with the different saiyan forms, you got yourself Bleach Ball.
Honestly though I think what attracts people to Bleach and Naruto is not only action scenes but the actual plot and drama in the stories which I think were much better than DBZ. Although I haven't watched or read that much DBZ past the Namek/Frieza arc, I think the character development and storytelling were much better in Bleach and Naruto. Kubo Tite and Kishimoto have a way of keeping you hooked and guessing about things to come in the far future while DBZ seem...yea...I mean how many episodes was the spirit bomb being charged?
Appears I've talked alot...~
Yeah, that is the main thing that makes Bleach and Naruto better than DBZ. I won't mind any more powerups to a certain extent if we continue getting great stories. But for me, I'm just willing to accept one more powerup for Ichigo before I get the opinion of Bleach is turning into DBZ. After that the only way I could accept Ichigo getting more powerful is by learning the other existing skills and mastering his current skills.Originally Posted by Faust
all the mangas are the same...= all the mangas are equal to Dbz
dude gains power-> villian stronger appears-> dude needs more power ->dude gains more power-> dude defeat villian ->new villian appear ->dude needs more power for the new villian ->dude gains more power..
want me to keep going ? XDD i don't think that theres a end for that XDDDDDD
anyway if you don't like its becoming into dbz why you keep watching ? lol
Dbz was great even though i think i hate it now ., on 10 o 20 years when bleach and naruto have ended we'll say "naruto sucks and bleach sucks" ...like you ppl seems to do now with dbz...
That's a rather subjective viewpoint.Originally Posted by Ichise(Shinn)
As Urazz pointed out DBZ took the whole power up thing to ridiculous levels and never focused on techniques. Naruto sets the limits and generally sticks to them (with the exception of a few occasions, which I'm a bit miffed about )
I can name three occasions off the top of my head where Naruto wasnt able to do anything, regardless of how much 'power' or inner-strength he had.
1. His fight against Kabuto, which left him unconscious
2. His fight against Gaara
3. His current training session with Kakashi
Now had this been equal to DBZ as you say, we would have seen Naruto go into a stance, cry out 'aaarrrugggh' a lot... see close ups of veins appearin', followed by more energy, and then more 'aaarrrugggh' (which I'm sure the voice actors got sick of after the third season!), and then more energy....
Repeat the cycle over three episodes and then you have a classic DBZ moment.
Zangetsu has already shown what is probably the next technique that Ichigo will learn with his Bankai, that of having Multiple Selves fighting at once. If Bleach was truely DBZ Ichigo would have beaten Grimjaw in the rematch and Grimjaw would have been forced to release his Soul Slayer. If it was DBZ like then Rukia would have not been able to kill an Arrancar with her Shikai.
^I concur. What separates Bleach from DBZ is that there's still a level of unpredictability in regards to the way people's powers work. I, for one, don't think that Tensa Zangetsu as we've seen it is what Ichigo is really capable of in Bankai. After all, look how useless it was against Grimmjow--if that's really as strong as it can get, then Ichigo won't have any more room for growth after he masters his Hollow powers.
If that's the case, then Kubo will have to throw in some ridiculous plot twist in order to give Ichigo the power he needs to beat Aizen. And like I've said before (not that anyone cares) there's no way that anyone is going to beat Aizen off of sheer brute strength or spirit power. It's going to take something more than that--and Ishiken's idea of having copies of himself fight seems like a pretty viable option. You can't really hypnotise illusions...
Anyway, I digress. While I do agree that Bleach is influenced by DBZ, and that there is a tried-and-true pattern when it comes to shonen plotlines, I think that Bleach is better because, simply put, it still has a degree of unpredictability and innovation that was lost in DBZ after the Freeza arc. If it really did feel like it was degenerating the same way DBZ did, then I wouldn't read it anymore. Plain and simple.
Exactly, the weaker characters can still do some damage and possibly kill the more powerful enemies. This is partly what makes Bleach different.Originally Posted by gigantor21
Not only that but I don't think we really need to have Ichigo get any new levels of power. We haven't really fully explored Ichigo's shinigami powers and then there is probably some other skills he can learn when he wears his hollow mask. Once he masters those, then we can talk about giving him a new final level of power or something.
uh...i though we were talking about bleach but well since you are at naruto xDDOriginally Posted by SacredNic
we already have naruto with the arghh if i'm not wrong.-..the veins no...more energy ? uh..the chakra he is envolved while using kyubi tails ? XD
naruto crying before part 1 end after sasuke just empale him with the hand (empale thats correct ? lol)
uh...if you have read part 2 you'll see a few moments like this
anyway the whole "naruto powering up" is stupid..he have the kyubi if he just let the kyubi use the 9 tails there ain't "power up" since he have been with that from the start ...
but well bleach is other thing...since there are alot of things we don't know for sure and how much the shirosaki power can grow (since to me it seems like what happen is that theres no limit on how much a hybrid power can grow)
This is my first post in the Bleach section. I just started reading Bleach and I'm already realizing this. Of course it's also happening in Naruto. The saddest thing is that this isn't always the fate of fighting manga as so many imply. Rurouni Kenshin never had vast over-powered things like this. Granted Kenshin was strong from the beginning but still, nothing like DBZ, Naruto, and Bleach.
In the end though, the only thing you can do is read to the end or just stop reading. Personally I'm too attached to story lines to just stop reading, so my only option is to continue reading. And if the story ends and I never read it again, that's the way it will be.
From a respect point of view i'd have to say regardless of whether we've all outgrown dbz or not the simple fact of the matter is that yeah all of those type of fighting anime styles WILL end up being compared to DB regardless i mean lets face it without DB coming to north america and simply killing or (overpowering lol) the rest all these animes wouldn't be so varied its because a manga/anime like db exists that these shows even have that chance the way i see it db for back then was untouchable and to compare these new ones like naruto or bleach, well hey if i were the creators i'd say i'm on the right track i'm sure thats something we can all agree on
Either way the whole powering up factor will always be present and prevalent because you can't go without it, ultimately however its just a matter of the time because i think its just the stage where they are at, the best way to look at it is that ok: you gain power, you train to utilize it, you then learn to control it and learn new techniques, but hey once your techniques aren't effective (and i mean unless your technique is point the finger=death) there's always gonna get to a bloackade point where in order to learn new techniques, for your body to be able to sustain them for example, then its back to the part of the cycle where you train TO GAIN MORE POWER....its a stage is all i'm getting at and i would give my vote of confidence to the creators of naruto and bleach (who have done a great job so far, minus fillers lol) and assume they will not stay at this stage forever....but ultimately this stage is always necessary after a while i mean think about it you guys really think naruto's gonna be able to beat sasuke or even uchiha jus cuz he's got all 9 tails, or that Ichigo will be able to take on Aizen simply because his power will have grown tremendously...nah that would be the end for both shows at least on credibility lol....ok i'm done ranting though
Life is an eternal struggle between
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Meh, I can see why people say Bleach is looking more like DBZ, but I think the opposite. In DBZ, if you werent a Super Saiya-jin, you basically sucked balls. And by the end of DBZ, even a Super-Saiyan was useless, only if they fused together that would mean something. In Bleach, no one is being left behind. Sado and Ishida have obtained new powers and mantain a pretty big role in the series. The captains arent left behind either, as we've seen in the Whitey-chan vs. Luppi fight, a captain can kick an Arrancar's ass. It's true Bleach is going in the direction where people are obtaining new powers, but that's the deal with most series as far as Im concerned(just look at Naruto). But my point is that, unlike DBZ where only one or two character were actually capable of doing something, in Bleach all the main characters play vital roles in the series. It's not just about Ichigo gaining power and kicking ass by himself; it's about he and his friends kicking ass together.
dude every single anime you've seen that has "spirit energy" or "ki, "nen", "chi" "reiatsu" "chakra" all of that shit is from DBZ. now, I don't understand what you mean by he threw learning techniques out the window. learning all of your zanpakutos tricks and trades takes normal shinigamis thousands of years. your watching a show filled with prodigies however. Bleach has never been only about fucking techniques. with techniques without power behind them they'd be useless. in a fighting manga power is all that matters. if you want to see a good anime/manga without "blasts" or "chi" then watch berserk or read vagabond, but you'll still see that it comes down to the way you weild your sword and the strength you put behind it.Originally Posted by kazuya-kun
bleach is not overpowered yet. if there is something beyond bankai or the arankaru or visored then it will be too much but it's beareable for now!
as for naruto, he will not use kyuubi anymore, so it's not overpowered either yet.
As i've stated before I don't think Bleach is ever going to be very much like dragon ball Z. But if it was, would that really be such a bad thing? I mean as long as they keep some variety in the fights i don't think it would bug my if everyone's power level kept going up and up until they are all pretty much gods.
As long as every fight is still based on the differant abilities of their swords then I don't see how the fights could get repetitive. In my opinion the same holds true of Naruto, as long as the battles are about strength+conflicting techniques and styles rather than just strength i'm not going to have any problem everyone becoming ungodly strong and fast. In fact i think i would perfer it that way.