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It is considered that Ichigo beat Byakuya seeing as how he no longer had a zanpakuto to fight with but, would Ichigo have won if they continued fighting. We see that Byakuya still had the strength left to flash step away and all Ichigo could do was fall down. Ichigo might have won the fight but, is he really stronger than the 6th squad captain Byakuya Kuchiki?
Well, as far as we know, ALL byakuya could do was flash step, he might have fell down right after. Plus, ichigo was using bankai for the very first time and it damaged his body, which didn't happened since, so yes, I do think Ichigo's stronger than byakuya, even if only slightly, even though he would have lost if his hollow didn't showed up that time... but right now, being used to bankai and with his hollow power, even if he can only keep it up for a few second, unless byakuya did some training himself, but since there's been no hint at all of that, we can assume he's definitely stronger.
Yeah but don't you think that instead of flash stepping Byakuya could have put that strength into a kidou to use on Ichigo. I believe that Byakuya simply lost interest in the fight after loosing his zanpakuto.
Well, it never been tell about how much reiatsu a flash step uses, but it's been said that to byakuya, flash stepping doesn't seem to ask much more effort than walking, so it might be very little, whereas to use an efficient kido's spell against a bankai, it would probably have needed more than he had left... he told himself he barely had enough strenght for one last attack, and he poured all that strenght in that last attack...
But if your real question is, was byakuya stronger than ichigo during this fight, then i'd say yes, even if barely, and only because of a greater experience at using bankai, so that wouldn't be only a simple matter of strenght, cause he could had to occasion to finish ichigo, but hollow-ichigo prevented him from doing so.
I just don't think its right to say that Ichigo beat Byakuya I mean, Byakuya was going kinda easy on him considering that he was only using one sword out of the thousands he had at his disposal. Byakuya in my opinion did not think Ichigo could beat him or rather he did not want to believe it (hey I used Naruto's catchphrase) and because he underestimated him, it resulted in his self-proclaimed defeat. Personally I cannot see Byakuya loosing to Ichigo and vice-versa. The most they would amount to is a draw.
Well, I mostly see that as Byakuya's way of fighting, he always seems to look down on his opponent, thus only using the peak of his power, such as that swift attack that cut shinigami's source of power (I mean, he even used that trick on a vice-captain), then adjust his fighting according to his opponent ability, using shikai, than bankai, than his hand to control bankai, than his bankai true form.
The fact that he used his bankai true form, for someone as arrogant as byakuya, can only means he thought ichigo worthy enough to be fought with his full power... also, as I said, what ichigo was lacking during this fight was experience...
If he had more time to train in bankai, he wouldn't have lost his speed and even using those thousands of blades at once wouldn't have help him much more, since ichigo could avoid millions of those to begin with... all that attack does is increasing attack power, so they couldn't match his speed anyway...
He might not have thought ichigo could beat him to begin with, but in the end, when both had only the strength for one last blow, they put all of it in one attack, and ichigo's stronger attack got the upper hand on byakuya's stronger attack.
Still, in term of strength, I totally agree with you, the both of them are on an equal level, and what might have made the difference in the end was that ichigo's determination to save rukia was greater than byakuya's resolution to kill her.
I guess you are right but seeing as how Byakuya is really good in kidou, I bet he would have known something to deal with Ichigo's speed if it became even more of a problem than it already was.
Yeah, I guess he could have cornered him than use some biding spell, but seeing how ichigo could quite well take byakuya's bankai while only in shikai... I mean, sure he was totally overwhelmed by that first attack, he was in blood and all, but it didn't seemed to affect him that much, seeing how he easily stood up after that...
In that case, it's ichigo that was being too arrogant for his own good as he himself admitted, so he wouldn't have sustain so much wounds and it might have affected the fight in the end... he had lost quite some blood after all.
But if that's come to what characters could have done, let's say if they were to fight again, ichigo has his black getsuga tenshou that he didn't yet knew of at first, so he could use that to counter byakuya's kido...
Then again, it all comes to the same conclusion that the both of them have only a slight difference in power, and that the tables could easily have turned around with only some slightly differents circumstances.
If Byakuya lost his zanpaktou after the attack, then he's weaker, isn't he? And if he really did have enough power left to continue fighting, then shouldn't he have broken out some kidou to fight Ichigo with? And don't even suggest that he doesn't know kidou, because he's a captain and he's royalty.
Last edited by ttxdragon; June 08, 2007 at 09:38 PM.
Well, like I said, he'd be barely weaker, not by a great deal of a difference... they both had chance to finish the other at one point but wouldn't or couldn't, so, putting ichigo's hollow power aside, their level during that fight weren't that far away. And nobody could ever say byakuya doesn't know kido, I don't even know why it has to be discuss, he quite obviously master kido and at quite a level too, making such powefull attack without even chanting it.
By now? I think that Ichigo would have surpassed byakuya by now because of his hollow abilities. Byakuya wasn't able to handle Ichigo when his hollow side took over in the first place and Ichigo can probably do a bit of what the hollow side did back then by now.
like said by naelya already byakuga masterd most the kido around, as his is prefably long range and if close range he likes to finish it fast like been shown. His zanpakatou is a kidou type so it would be surprising for somemone with a kidou type zanpakatou to not use kidou (there are exceptsion always yes). at that time they fought the stronger one was Byakuya not by alot but still, ichigo himself did not do alot of damage to Byakuya the hollow did some very severe dmg to him so without him he would had lost, however at this time ichigo being better at using his bankai and his hollow powers he would already could defeat Byakuya with just his bankai and simple crush him with his hollow powers.
Ichigo had been training for 2 days after getting torn up by Zaraki Kenpachi, Renji, and Ikkaku. Byakuya was resting up waiting for his chance to fight Ichigo. Not only that, Ichigo let himself get hit by the full force of Byakuya's bankai before finally deciding to use bankai himself. Even then, he could have killed Byakuya with his first move, but he chose not to. Considering that fatigue and constant fighting was why Ichigo slowed down, I don't see any reason that if they fought again, Ichigo would not dominate Byakuya.
I believe that Byakuya would have won that battle if Ichigo's Hollow did not step in and attack Byakuya, so at that moment I thought Byakuya to be stronger than Ichigo. But, currently in the anime or manga or wherever, I am sure that Ichigo is probably stronger than him now.
Don't use the execuse that Ichigo was tired or whatever, if Ichigo was tired they would have probably stated it or Ichigo would have said so, but nobody did, so I think that Ichigo was in his peak condition at that time.
Well, the inner hollow is part of Ichigo's power, isn't it? It's just like any other advantage that someone can have, so if it comes out to fight, he's still winning. But yeah, currently in the story Ichigo could probably beat him. He just needs to be in bankai all the time, and when he needs it, he can wear his mask quickly and save himself.